Wow, great video. Great information. I happen to be going to look at a MacGregor Venture 21 and now I know what to look at specifically. Thank you so much 😊
I was watching this on basic inspection tips rather than specific to Precision boats. This is very well presented. Thank you for spending the time to go over this! On the other hand, the more I know about centerboards, the less I like them. I realize for a trailerable boat, they are almost essential but it does make me think more highly of non-centerboard boats like some of the ComPac 23 shoal draft boats w/o the centerboard.
The Precision 18 does not point as well and has much more leeway when sailing on the 18” deep shoal draft keel alone. The addition of the centerboard definitely increases the boat’s lateral resistance. The ComPac 23 draws more so should be better. I definitely appreciate the CB over a heavy swing keel every time I raise or lower it with one hand! As they say, every boat is a compromise. The key is finding the right type of boat for you! Happy sailing!
@@ColoradoSailing Thanks for setting the record straight on the difference between swing keels (manipulated with a winch) and a centerboard (manipulated with your hands). I guess I was just lumping them together and there IS a difference.
@@craigparse1439 For sure! I think that’s a very common point of confusion. A swing keel contains ballast (commonly weigh 500+ lbs) whereas a centerboard is unballasted. The big drawback on a swing keel is the loss of righting moment and stability when it is retracted for shallow water sailing. Also, if capsized the heavy swing keel can fall back into the keel trunk and prevent the boat from self-righting. Some folks add lock pins to keep the swing keel down, but then if you hit a rock or go aground you can do some serious damage. The nice thing about the shoal draft keel with centerboard combination is you get good keel lift and pointing ability, but if you raise the CB the ballast and stability are not affected.
It is kinda odd that the rub rail and seam are so commonly the same potential contact point for the boat. But I am not a boat builder so I could be missing some aspect other than cost. I imagine it could be the double layer of material at that point of contact.
I’ve seen fiberglass hull boats with lower rub rails (Cape George 36 comes to mind)…but I would think it’s intentional on smaller boats both because of the height in relation to a dock and because of the added strength at that seam. The seam being a horizontal piece and the hull being basically a vertical sheet has got to make a difference, right? But…I am also not a boat builder... 😄
John: the P18 follows the marine architecture design standard of ballast equal to 30% of displacement, but it’s a light boat so that ballast is only 350 lbs and can be overcome (in a negative way) by crew sitting on the low side. Placement of human ballast has to be managed as the winds pick up. Also, the sail area to displacement ratio is very high…so it has a lot of canvas. It moves well in light air, but it needs to be reefed early.
@@john6268 I can’t argue that having the ballast up in the shoal draft keel (rather than deeper) impacts the righting moment of the boat. However, It is still a self-righting design. The P18 also has more beam than many boats it’s size (she’s nearly as wide as a Catalina 22). As the boat heels that wide beam increases the buoyant force and contributes to righting moment. Finally, many boats with swing keels have an issue where the heavy weighted keel will “fall” back into the hull as the boat rolls…shifting the ballast, making it impossible to right and causing the boat to go “turtle” (upside down). As they say, “every boat is a compromise.”
This is great information. We are currently looking and there actually is a P18 at our local reservoir, it's a 1988. Are there any better or worse years? Thanks for your info...
The older model boats have non-opening plexiglass cabin port lights (windows), the shroud chain plates are on the deck and the mast and boom are painted black. The newer boats have 4 opening port lights, shroud chain plates on the cabin roof (which makes it easier to go forward on the deck) and a plain aluminum mast. I’m not sure what year these changes were made…
@@ColoradoSailing I see !! The one I looked at tonight was / is a 1988, we just looked at it in the yard and it looks like they sailed it, put it on the trailer and towed it to the storage area. Another one the seller sent me pictures and what do I see? What you point out at 9:27 in this amazing video. I have owned several RV's / motorhomes and currently a pontoon boat. I guess I will have to wait to find one where people like yourself take care in what they own. Love your channel and might lean on you for some more information in the future. Know anything about Catalina sailboats and their winged keel? Thanks again.
@@bug512 I’ve sailed a Catalina 25 but that’s about it. The Catalina Facebook forums or the “Pocket Yachts and Trailer Sailors” forum would be good places to ask those questions…
Catalina makes good boats. The Catalina Capri 18 is the closest to the P18. The Capri has a fixed wing keel (28” draft) so the trailer will need to be deeper on the ramp for launch and you won’t be able to beach the boat or get into the shallows as easily as you can with the P18. The Capri has more sail area, but it’s also 400 lbs heavier….resulting in a lower sail area to displacement ratio.
Nice video. I bought a Precision 185 from my lake neighbor when I closed on a house in July. I should have inspected much more as their was a lot of water in the bilge. As you mentioned all fixable but I could have offered a lot less. Here is what I found and repaired or will be repaired this winter: Self bailing through hulls sealant missing or dried up. Two hairline cracks in the hull at the bulkhead (likely from being stored or on the lift and inappropriate stresses of walking on deck. I put white duck tape on them and will get repaired this winter. After 8 weeks of great sailing with a 3.5 hp on the motor mount- the transom collapsed under pressure of motoring. It’s a 2007 so that will now be rebuilt over the winter. I pulled the motor and duck taped the resulting opening above the water line so I can finish out the season. Replaced the main sheet, center board line, rudder stay line, roller furling line. Got the boat for $4,400 with powered lift so I am not complaining. Just reinforcing the importance of a thorough inspection.
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Wow, great video. Great information. I happen to be going to look at a MacGregor Venture 21 and now I know what to look at specifically. Thank you so much 😊
Thank you!! Glad it was helpful!
Good advice, well done.
Great videos - this is the 3rd one of yours I'm watching. Very informative. Thank you.
I was watching this on basic inspection tips rather than specific to Precision boats. This is very well presented. Thank you for spending the time to go over this!
On the other hand, the more I know about centerboards, the less I like them. I realize for a trailerable boat, they are almost essential but it does make me think more highly of non-centerboard boats like some of the ComPac 23 shoal draft boats w/o the centerboard.
The Precision 18 does not point as well and has much more leeway when sailing on the 18” deep shoal draft keel alone. The addition of the centerboard definitely increases the boat’s lateral resistance. The ComPac 23 draws more so should be better. I definitely appreciate the CB over a heavy swing keel every time I raise or lower it with one hand! As they say, every boat is a compromise. The key is finding the right type of boat for you! Happy sailing!
@@ColoradoSailing Thanks for setting the record straight on the difference between swing keels (manipulated with a winch) and a centerboard (manipulated with your hands).
I guess I was just lumping them together and there IS a difference.
@@craigparse1439 For sure! I think that’s a very common point of confusion. A swing keel contains ballast (commonly weigh 500+ lbs) whereas a centerboard is unballasted. The big drawback on a swing keel is the loss of righting moment and stability when it is retracted for shallow water sailing. Also, if capsized the heavy swing keel can fall back into the keel trunk and prevent the boat from self-righting. Some folks add lock pins to keep the swing keel down, but then if you hit a rock or go aground you can do some serious damage. The nice thing about the shoal draft keel with centerboard combination is you get good keel lift and pointing ability, but if you raise the CB the ballast and stability are not affected.
Good walk thru of inspiration of a P-18 n general look about on most mini sailboats. 👍. Papa J
It is kinda odd that the rub rail and seam are so commonly the same potential contact point for the boat.
But I am not a boat builder so I could be missing some aspect other than cost. I imagine it could be the double layer of material at that point of contact.
I’ve seen fiberglass hull boats with lower rub rails (Cape George 36 comes to mind)…but I would think it’s intentional on smaller boats both because of the height in relation to a dock and because of the added strength at that seam. The seam being a horizontal piece and the hull being basically a vertical sheet has got to make a difference, right? But…I am also not a boat builder... 😄
👏👏👏
Thanks for the tips, I'll be looking at a P18 this weekend (and considering). What are some things you don't like about the P18? How tender are they?
John: the P18 follows the marine architecture design standard of ballast equal to 30% of displacement, but it’s a light boat so that ballast is only 350 lbs and can be overcome (in a negative way) by crew sitting on the low side. Placement of human ballast has to be managed as the winds pick up. Also, the sail area to displacement ratio is very high…so it has a lot of canvas. It moves well in light air, but it needs to be reefed early.
@@ColoradoSailing Thanks...the ballast seems to be high up since none of it is in the swinging keel bur rather the housing.
@@john6268 I can’t argue that having the ballast up in the shoal draft keel (rather than deeper) impacts the righting moment of the boat. However, It is still a self-righting design. The P18 also has more beam than many boats it’s size (she’s nearly as wide as a Catalina 22). As the boat heels that wide beam increases the buoyant force and contributes to righting moment. Finally, many boats with swing keels have an issue where the heavy weighted keel will “fall” back into the hull as the boat rolls…shifting the ballast, making it impossible to right and causing the boat to go “turtle” (upside down). As they say, “every boat is a compromise.”
This is great information. We are currently looking and there actually is a P18 at our local reservoir, it's a 1988. Are there any better or worse years? Thanks for your info...
The older model boats have non-opening plexiglass cabin port lights (windows), the shroud chain plates are on the deck and the mast and boom are painted black. The newer boats have 4 opening port lights, shroud chain plates on the cabin roof (which makes it easier to go forward on the deck) and a plain aluminum mast. I’m not sure what year these changes were made…
@@ColoradoSailing I see !! The one I looked at tonight was / is a 1988, we just looked at it in the yard and it looks like they sailed it, put it on the trailer and towed it to the storage area. Another one the seller sent me pictures and what do I see? What you point out at 9:27 in this amazing video. I have owned several RV's / motorhomes and currently a pontoon boat. I guess I will have to wait to find one where people like yourself take care in what they own. Love your channel and might lean on you for some more information in the future. Know anything about Catalina sailboats and their winged keel? Thanks again.
@@bug512 I’ve sailed a Catalina 25 but that’s about it. The Catalina Facebook forums or the “Pocket Yachts and Trailer Sailors” forum would be good places to ask those questions…
@@ColoradoSailing Thanks so much.. Cheers !
how are catalina sailboats? checking out a couple different ones now.
Catalina makes good boats. The Catalina Capri 18 is the closest to the P18. The Capri has a fixed wing keel (28” draft) so the trailer will need to be deeper on the ramp for launch and you won’t be able to beach the boat or get into the shallows as easily as you can with the P18. The Capri has more sail area, but it’s also 400 lbs heavier….resulting in a lower sail area to displacement ratio.
Nice video. I bought a Precision 185 from my lake neighbor when I closed on a house in July. I should have inspected much more as their was a lot of water in the bilge. As you mentioned all fixable but I could have offered a lot less. Here is what I found and repaired or will be repaired this winter:
Self bailing through hulls sealant missing or dried up.
Two hairline cracks in the hull at the bulkhead (likely from being stored or on the lift and inappropriate stresses of walking on deck. I put white duck tape on them and will get repaired this winter.
After 8 weeks of great sailing with a 3.5 hp on the motor mount- the transom collapsed under pressure of motoring. It’s a 2007 so that will now be rebuilt over the winter. I pulled the motor and duck taped the resulting opening above the water line so I can finish out the season.
Replaced the main sheet, center board line, rudder stay line, roller furling line.
Got the boat for $4,400 with powered lift so I am not complaining. Just reinforcing the importance of a thorough inspection.