VRR Flicker On OLEDs Is A Real Problem

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  • Опубликовано: 22 дек 2024

Комментарии • 1,5 тыс.

  • @kennibal666
    @kennibal666 8 месяцев назад +1163

    RTings is the only media outlet I trust when it comes to this type of review.

    • @RTINGScomRD
      @RTINGScomRD  8 месяцев назад +78

      Thanks for watching and for trusting us!

    • @johnnyb529
      @johnnyb529 8 месяцев назад

      TFTcentral and MonitorsUnboxed are both great.

    • @WickedRibbon
      @WickedRibbon 8 месяцев назад

      Hardware Unboxed/Monitors Unboxed, TFT Central, Techless and PC Monitors, also do excellent monitor reviews here on RUclips.

    • @RafaelSilva-yv3oh
      @RafaelSilva-yv3oh 8 месяцев назад +2

      100%

    • @MakeSh00t
      @MakeSh00t 8 месяцев назад +4

      yes they are to trust rest are sponsoring to much things and not saying about problems

  • @maximilianadang1484
    @maximilianadang1484 7 месяцев назад +161

    I recently got an OLED monitor and flickering with VRR on was the first thing I noticed. I was shocked that it was an issue that hadn’t shown up in my prior research - searching for it specifically on forums was the only way to get info about it. Thank you for bringing more attention to this!

    • @AndrewK117
      @AndrewK117 7 месяцев назад +3

      I dont think very many people use vrr which is probably one reason it wasn't reported much.

    • @jackoberto01
      @jackoberto01 7 месяцев назад +8

      ​@@AndrewK117Probably not which is odd seeing as it's one of the best modern monitor features when it works.
      Especially as monitor refresh rates keeps increasing while game requirements also does. So you're limited to lowering refresh rate on a per game basis, using V-Sync or having screen tearing

    • @AA-xm7rt
      @AA-xm7rt 7 месяцев назад

      What monitor do you have? :)

    • @dereklang4451
      @dereklang4451 7 месяцев назад

      ​@AndrewK117 This. I don't use VRR and just cap the framerate on my aw3423dwf in Adrenalin on a per game basis depending on what the average fps I get for each game. That way I never see any flickering. I moved from a 60hz ips to ultrawide oled and I will never go back. I don't like using motion blur, but having higher than 120fps without it doesn't feel nice on my eyes (maybe I'm getting too old and too high fps without motion blur give me eye pain/headache)

    • @adriankoch964
      @adriankoch964 6 месяцев назад +2

      Quite a few people use VRR, but you need to have a situation where your FPS varies wildly and consistently. This can largely come from pairing a weak CPU on a powerful GPU, or putting some game settings higher than you have VRAM for. If the weak CPU bottlenecks from a scene with a lot of physics effects or other game logic (NPC AI or scripts) running on the CPU, it will cause you to suddenly drop frames, same if your run out of VRAM and the GPU needs to wait to load in data from system RAM. Another cause for consistent fluctuation in FPS can be if the system runs too hot. This will cause CPU and GPU to clock lower. To check if this happening, find out the throttle point of your GPU or CPU and see if those components reach it. If it goes over the throttle point a lot, you'll see clocks dropping a lot too. This will reduce effective performance. If your GPU is just dancing around the throttle point, this can cause GPU clocks shift by 10-100mhz for example.

  • @Quick_Sa_Fugim
    @Quick_Sa_Fugim 8 месяцев назад +517

    This is the kind of work that sets standards. You, people at Rtings, are our heros without the capes. Cheers.

    • @RTINGScomRD
      @RTINGScomRD  7 месяцев назад +19

      Thank you so much!😄

    • @codybroken
      @codybroken 7 месяцев назад +1

      I concur most strenuously.

    • @KING_DRANZER
      @KING_DRANZER 7 месяцев назад

      @@RTINGScomRD Please can you set the Refresh rate of the OLED Monitors to just 5-10hz below their Max Spec. That is said to fix the flickering issue even with VRR on. Please do test it.

    • @Psythik
      @Psythik 7 месяцев назад

      @@RTINGScomRD No joke, RTINGS is *by far* the *best* review site in existence. Nobody else even comes *close* to the level of effort you put into your reviews. You provide so much more in-depth detail than anyone else. I don't make *any* major electronics purchase without consulting your website first. Keep up the amazing work.

    • @lupuradu841
      @lupuradu841 6 месяцев назад

      ​@@RTINGScomRD when you will review new samsung g60sd ?

  • @TechLevelUpOfficial
    @TechLevelUpOfficial 8 месяцев назад +649

    These guys are so far ahead of other media outlets... Also, Abby is doing a great job as the host of the R&D channel.

    • @kristof46
      @kristof46 8 месяцев назад +2

      Ahead and lie that it is Oled issue while they admit later on that even lcd has it. Just because it is not about Oled but about vrr

    • @dddddddddddddddadddddddddddddd
      @dddddddddddddddadddddddddddddd 8 месяцев назад

      @@kristof46 autism

    • @Tectosaurus
      @Tectosaurus 7 месяцев назад +23

      @@kristof46 they didn't lie, the purpose of this video was to bring to people's attention that even OLED has drawbacks and one that's not talked about enough.

    • @kristof46
      @kristof46 7 месяцев назад +1

      @@Tectosaurus kidding right? You want to tell me that they discovered flickering in VRR? No they don’t. A lot of people reviewers told about that but it is still vrr issue. When you see this kind of title you can think that Oled is a crap while lcd is great. In fact only ips is fine in that case

    • @Tectosaurus
      @Tectosaurus 7 месяцев назад +18

      @@kristof46 you’re taking this video the wrong way, clearly as you’re the only one mad in the comments.

  • @luke100ster
    @luke100ster 8 месяцев назад +720

    This drove me nuts in Alan Wake 2 on PC on an LG C2. I'm so glad someone finally made a video on this.

    • @RTINGScomRD
      @RTINGScomRD  8 месяцев назад +136

      Oof, yeah that's the kind of game where you'd really see it a lot, we feel for your pain 😭

    • @MrDutch1e
      @MrDutch1e 8 месяцев назад +26

      Should have just turned it off. It's not necessary on OLED.

    • @residentCJ
      @residentCJ 8 месяцев назад +13

      Have you tried to limit your VRR HZ Range down to 35-100 hz with the "CRU Toole" ? I had the same Problem on my AW3423dwf, measured the worst from Rtings.
      Now its completely Flicker Free. 🤩🥳

    • @Methos_
      @Methos_ 8 месяцев назад +4

      @@MrDutch1e It's never necessary. I think I've used V-Sync in like 2 games ever?
      I've only seen screen tearing on gaming laptops or during really dramatic frame drops.

    • @bricaaron3978
      @bricaaron3978 8 месяцев назад +59

      @@Methos_ There _are_ people who apparently have a high tolerance for ugliness. You seem to be one of them. Nevertheless, screen tearing exists and is very ugly.
      But further, VSync doesn't just eliminate screen tearing, _it eliminates judder,_ as long as your framerate remains at or above your refresh rate. Judder is also a very ugly thing, which is essentially inconsistent frame pacing. Even if you have a framerate cap and you are nominally getting a solid say, 60 fps, you will still likely have ugly inconsistent motion. There are many people who don't even know they aren't getting smooth frame pacing because they've never used VSync, or have never used it while deliberately maintaining a framerate at or above the display's refresh rate.
      But _even further,_ the topic here is VRR, not VSync. There is no reason that VSync should cause flicker.

  • @blubbi4ever
    @blubbi4ever 8 месяцев назад +110

    I'm truly grateful that you've brought attention to this issue because, in my view, it's often overlooked. I've encountered this problem myself with certain VA panels in the past. Since then, I've switched to IPS and haven't experienced it again.
    Additionally, I believe that brightness flickering is most noticeable when examining the frame time graph. Even simple actions like opening the inventory in WoW caused brightness flickering for me, despite maintaining a steady 60 FPS throughout.

    • @ameserich
      @ameserich 8 месяцев назад +5

      its often happens on VA because VA are naturally white so it need more time to display black which is also the reason why black smearing happen. Its the other way around on IPS which is naturally black but new IPS tech like IPS Black works like VA(Naturally White)

    • @IshayuG
      @IshayuG 8 месяцев назад +5

      It's really bad in WoW, yes. In general. And I think it's so bad because of WoW's super inconsistent framerate, especially in combat.

    • @xBINARYGODx
      @xBINARYGODx 7 месяцев назад

      if you are getting flashing at a contact 60, you have a different problem than what this video is talking about.

    • @tablettablete186
      @tablettablete186 7 месяцев назад +1

      In brawhalla for instance, changing the character in the menu also causes flicker.

    • @alvarg
      @alvarg 4 месяца назад

      honestly if you have 165hz refresh then disabling VRR isn't all that bad, yes there will be some tearing but with your monitors picture refreshing 165 times a second most tears will be removed before you will even see them

  • @GDICZ
    @GDICZ 8 месяцев назад +100

    Please add this flicker test also to TV reviews. And also test TVs with the new methodology of pixel response times. Many thanks!

    • @Kumoiwa
      @Kumoiwa 8 месяцев назад +6

      As someone planning to buy a TV for gaming this would be highly appreciated

    • @sachak
      @sachak 7 месяцев назад +4

      I have been using 4k TV's as a computer screen since 2015, several different TV's most of them 55" . I don't think I could ever go back to using a PC "monitor" as a display, it's just WAY less bang for your buck. You get absolutely nothing that a modern 4K or even 8K tv will give you. You actually gain in the fact that you can also watch TV on the thing. I use an LG Oled CS 55", it has VRR, HDR, Free sync technology, dedicated game mode etc. Insanely fast response times and an incredible picture quality and obviously it's much bigger than pretty much all conventional PC monitors out there being that it is a 55". You could argue that the pixel density on a smaller screen at 4K is better but you sit further away from a screen this size so the pixel density looks exactly the same as if you were using a 27" screen sitting right up to it.
      And also on the plus side of using a high end TV like this as a monitor, it has a glossy display, none of this matt finish crap all over it which I really can't stand when I have a bright window behind me, the glare is just insane and unuseable, a sharp reflection on a TV screen is pretty much un-noticeable in comparrison, and obviously because it's glossy you get much richer colours and pure blacks.

    • @PixelatedWolf2077
      @PixelatedWolf2077 7 месяцев назад

      ​@@KumoiwaAs much as I love my QLED TV, sometimes the highlights get a bit wacky looking and they'll fluctuate on brightness. That could just be because I've got the smaller TV which has a VA panel.

    • @oni2662
      @oni2662 7 месяцев назад

      ​@@PixelatedWolf2077is it a Samsung?

  • @Kryptic1046
    @Kryptic1046 8 месяцев назад +34

    This is such an annoying issue with some displays and I'm glad you guys are calling it out. I have two main panels I play games on, one of them hooked to an AMD card with Freesync and the other with an Nvidia card using Gsync. The Freesync on the panel with the AMD card (Samsung Q70R) is near-flawless while the panel using Gsync with the Nvidia card (TCLR648) has that annoying VRR flicker in some games where you can clearly tell the VRR is engaging.
    I feel like if a monitor is going to advertise VRR, it ought to be an actual decent implementation of it. Nobody wants to sit there watching the screen constantly flicker in brightness while playing a game.

  • @HazewinDog
    @HazewinDog 8 месяцев назад +43

    Since usually people only comment when the opposite is the case, I just wanted to say that you're really good at this presenting thing!

    • @mechanicalmonk2020
      @mechanicalmonk2020 8 месяцев назад +4

      A lot of comments here are saying that

    • @HazewinDog
      @HazewinDog 8 месяцев назад

      @@mechanicalmonk2020 That's a nice surprise. I'm used to seeing negative comments on RUclips videos in this regard. I'm new here, only watched a couple videos so far, and hadn't come across anyone mentioning it yet!

  • @evernote1568
    @evernote1568 8 месяцев назад +16

    I'm glad a big outlet is talking about VRR flicker, it really ruins the overall experience.

    • @cemsengul16
      @cemsengul16 3 месяца назад +4

      People are disabling Gsync on their expensive monitors because of the flicker which is so stupid. Manufacturers need to do a better job.

  • @GFClocked
    @GFClocked 8 месяцев назад +20

    Rtings is stepping up their game. I was specifically looking for better motion clarity and flicker testing, and to my surprise both of these got addressed. This along with burn in testing - is the royal flush, you guys (and girls) rock!

    • @RTINGScomRD
      @RTINGScomRD  7 месяцев назад +5

      Haha great timing! Glad to hear we could help 😄

  • @TheLiddokun
    @TheLiddokun 8 месяцев назад +65

    You guys didn't identify the actual source of the vrr flicker: that the gamme curve depends on the presented refresh rate. Measure the gamma curve at different fixed present vrr frame rates. Eg, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100, 110, 120 fps. You will find the lower the vrr, the more broken the gamma (raised dark levels) and as you approach 120fps(or the monitors native refreshing rate) , the gamma will approach the correct curve. I believe this is a solvable problem (by manufacturers in future models) and it would help if you guys devled in this this more. :)
    The second cause of vrr flicker is some system / hdmi / game / driver level frame rate vrr rate desynchronization that seems to happen on some game engines and vrr monitors. You see it when the vrr displays 240hz for a split second then drops down to the correct frame rate, when in fact the game never presented a 240hz frame. The funny thing is, the flicker you see in this scenario is the actual correct gamma.

    • @FiveFiveZeroTwo
      @FiveFiveZeroTwo 7 месяцев назад +4

      Interesting. Why does the gamma curve need to depend on the refresh rate though? Is this related to the TFT layer?

    • @TheLiddokun
      @TheLiddokun 7 месяцев назад +7

      ​@@FiveFiveZeroTwo Yes, has to be related to the tft. Dark levens raise when the panel is refreshed at a slower rate. One solution is to have an internal fixed tft refresh rate, like Asus did on one of their recent laptops. Use of a really high rate fixed rate like 1000hz won't be much detriment to vrr, at most 0.5 ms error vrr waiting for the next refresh

    • @ragefires
      @ragefires 2 месяца назад +1

      ​@@TheLiddokun for the AW3225QF do you think VRR on with 120hz, capped to 120fps would solve this issue?

    • @cyclogenisis
      @cyclogenisis 25 дней назад

      @@TheLiddokun Does disabling vrr + gsynch and enabling vsynch at the displays native refresh rate completely solve the flicker issue?

  • @rockyyz89
    @rockyyz89 8 месяцев назад +74

    U guys r the best, no 1 source for peripheral testing

    • @RTINGScomRD
      @RTINGScomRD  8 месяцев назад +7

      Thank you so much for the kind words! We're always striving to do everything we can to help people 😄

  • @craigjoe8691
    @craigjoe8691 7 месяцев назад +107

    I've emailed Gamers Nexus, LTT, Hardware Unboxed, Optimum Tech, Der8uer, Paul's Hardware, JayzTwoCents and NONE OF THEM covered the issue. Thank you RTINGS for doing more for the community than all those other channels combined.

    • @eliadbu
      @eliadbu 5 месяцев назад

      I think it also changes between person to person and of course between displays. I personally don't see it when playing on my LG CX TV, I have several guess why
      1) As I have quite powerful hardware - those huge fluctuations are nearly non existent. usually it stays within +- 5-10% of the average
      2) even in her example I see it as fast fluctuations in luminous output, but those are quite small changes, and probably the camera exaggerates the issue like how it exaggerates back light bleed and IPS glow on IPS monitors. meaning good chances I would barely notice it in person if any at all.
      3) maybe some models are more susceptible than others, maybe 2 units of the same monitors have different levels of this flicker?
      I'll wait for the OLED monitor I preordered to be delivered then maybe I'll have different perspective, but as I said with my LG CX it is a non issue.
      as for the creators you've emailed, I would guess most of them don't read all emails, and if they do - testing it might be hard as not all people who use VRR on OLED are affected.
      for instance Tim from Monitor Unboxed (Hardware Unboxed) share any issue he has with monitors reviewed, maybe like me he hasn't experienced it in his testing and day to day use?

    • @Cormy1
      @Cormy1 5 месяцев назад +6

      Just to add a name to your list, for display tech HDTVtest is really the champion of critical analysis. Unfortunately he tends to only look at the bleeding edge and high end but if there's anyone you actually want to e-mail about a specific issue, he'd be the one to turn to. None of the one's you've mentioned are really professionals in the field like HDTVtest is.

    • @kachow5830
      @kachow5830 5 месяцев назад

      @@eliadbuhow’s ur lg Oled? I think I’ll just get one of those instead and play stuff on my bed mostly😂

    • @kachow5830
      @kachow5830 5 месяцев назад

      @@Cormy1i believe he did talk about oled vrr flicker on monitors recently

    • @eliadbu
      @eliadbu 5 месяцев назад

      @@kachow5830 works well, but on my model there is issues with dead pixels on the edges, not that I notice it from few meters away but I will replace it/get it fix under warranty.

  • @GeordiLaForgery
    @GeordiLaForgery 8 месяцев назад +90

    Fascinating Abby & co, I like the casual way y'all just improve the VESA test!

  • @F3nya
    @F3nya 7 месяцев назад +5

    Finally a reviewer talks about this! Thanks so much, Rtings!

  • @kaiserfakinaway5909
    @kaiserfakinaway5909 7 месяцев назад +20

    Rtings is the only type of mainstream media outlet I can trust nowadays not just because of their good quality reviews but because of the fact that THEY LISTEN. They listen to feedback, good or bad AND IMPROVE. They don't think they're perfect because nobody is, and because of that, they have my respect and trust.
    Thanks for this video and hope you guys continue improving!

  • @adamsteinbacher2629
    @adamsteinbacher2629 3 месяца назад +1

    I seriously had no idea this was even an issue. Abby and RTINGS, you have my thanks for your dedication and integrity. Hopefully this helps monitor engineers figure out a solution by the time I can actually afford a 32" OLED.

  • @Odder-Being
    @Odder-Being 7 месяцев назад +11

    I really like how Abby hosts these videos. She is obvious knowledgeable mixed with a bit humor, well done!

  • @TechGamesAU
    @TechGamesAU 7 месяцев назад +1

    THANK YOU for investigating this. It’s a HUGE ISSUE that hardly anyone talks about! I finished Alan Wake 2 on my LG C2 and the flicker absolutely ruined the experience.

  • @rokha6482
    @rokha6482 7 месяцев назад +5

    YOU literally read my mind, I had issue with flicker on my screen and was starting to look for info on how to fight it and Boom a video from Rtings detailing exactly my issue !
    Thanks for your work

  • @Baronvonbadguy3
    @Baronvonbadguy3 Месяц назад

    This is a very well produced segment. Presenter is clear and confident and the information is concise.

  • @warmonked
    @warmonked 7 месяцев назад +4

    seriously, you guys are doing the lord's work.

  •  7 месяцев назад +3

    Thank you for bringing it up! I'm in the third generation of my "premium" VRR capable gaming monitors (Acer predator, Asus ROG, now LG Ultragear) and all flickered like crazy. I totally gave up on VRR by now, unusable. The worst thing is the better your monitor, the worse the flicker is. If you have a low end monitor or TV with a 40-60Hz VRR range, you are totally fine. But if you have an LFC capable monitor with a high enough VRR range, then the amplitude of the flicker goes over the roof as soon as the refresh rate starts swinging between for example 40 and 78 Hz. A very simple solution would be just simply disable LFC so it never happens, but I didn't find any way to do it. My other solution to mitigate the issue is a very high refresh rate monitor and v-sync. eg a 240Hz monitor is sending a v-sync signal that is compatible with 240, 120, 80, 60, 48, 40, ~34, etc frame rates, so even slight drops below the target fps won't result in very noticeable stutter.

    • @xellestar
      @xellestar 17 дней назад

      I'm not following your last point "My other solution...." Do you mean for exaample just disabling gsync? From my understanding it is exactly this "LFC" crap that is causing this. I don't know why it's not possible to disable that and just have the monitor's refresh rate match the game framerate. Instead with LFC while the game framerate could be between 50-60 farely stable the monitor refresh rate will rapidly jump to over 100hz and back down to 50hz, and it's that which causes the flicker.

    •  17 дней назад

      @@xellestar exactly. If you have LFC capable monitor, just have forget gsync or freesync if you are sensitive to flicker. You won't be able to fix it. You can't limit your monitor to stay in a flicker free range. But with a high enough refresh rate, you will have vsync signals so frequently, that you can have a freesync like effect with simple frame doubling, tripling, etc. and no tearing. So in my example with a 240Hz monitor playing between 40-60 FPS your FPS can vary between 40 (6 identical frames), 48 (5 frames) and 60 (4 frames). You can still notice the frame pacing inconsistency, but still much better than the flicker. And as the monitor refreshes at a constant 240Hz, it will never flicker not even when dropping below 20 FPS or going over 120. The more the refresh rate, the less noticable the pacing issues become and more available sync signals for more variability in FPS.

  • @rostyslav2314
    @rostyslav2314 8 месяцев назад +4

    Finally somebody addressed this issue, I am not alone anymore! 😂This flickering is the reason I returned dell g2724d, it drove me nuts. Now I've got lg gp850-b and I am happy it gave good results on your test.

    • @Ciferz
      @Ciferz 7 месяцев назад +2

      The G2724d has way less flicker than that MSI monitor. Rtings' updated review shows that.

    • @Lunamana
      @Lunamana 4 месяца назад +1

      ​@@CiferzYeah, just recently bought that monitor and I don't notice any vrr flicker at all

  • @emkejemkejovich
    @emkejemkejovich 7 месяцев назад +1

    Thank you for this video. Extremely annoying issue. I bought my AOC OLED in December 2023 and it took me only a few days to identify the issue, the cause and potential resolutions (in line with this video). Unfortunately, this was not discussed in ANY review I could find prior to buying the monitor even though it's an obvious issue. I think this is the first time somebody made a solid video about the problem.

  • @random_n
    @random_n 8 месяцев назад +29

    1:14 Some OLED panels do actually use PWM for brightness control - it's quite common in smartphones. Unlike LCD, only non-100% brightness areas will have visible PWM flicker instead of the whole panel, and it's typically most severe at very low per-pixel brightness levels. Some may even allow changing between DC and PWM dimming modes, but those tend to exhibit severe black crush in DC mode.

    • @bricaaron3978
      @bricaaron3978 8 месяцев назад

      If the problem with shadow detail / black crush can be solved by using PWM, I can't imagine why all OLED displays aren't using it. My LG OLED55B7A not only has poor near-black performance, but also has a nasty greenish tint that ruins dark/night scenes.

    • @Heimbasteln
      @Heimbasteln 8 месяцев назад +1

      @@bricaaron3978 It would be best if they could combine both, first dimm the pixel with DC to a value where it is still linear and then dimm the rest of the way with as fast as possible PWM.
      That way the flicker wouldnt be as noticeable as when it would just use PWM from full brightness while it still provides great black performance.
      I can notice flicker a lot more than other people, so I noticed the flicker in a smartphone that had an OLED screen.
      Its also why I would never enable strobing blacklights to achieve less motion blur.

    • @bricaaron3978
      @bricaaron3978 7 месяцев назад

      @@Heimbasteln *" It would be best if they could combine both, first dimm the pixel with DC to a value where it is still linear and then dimm the rest of the way with as fast as possible PWM."*
      Yes, I agree. Do you have an LG OLED display?

    • @or1on89
      @or1on89 7 месяцев назад

      @@bricaaron3978your LG uses an old panel type which suffered this type of issues

    • @bricaaron3978
      @bricaaron3978 7 месяцев назад

      @@or1on89 That's reassuring. I was hoping that when I buy a new LG display it would not suffer from some of the issues of my OLED55B7A.
      Nevertheless, there are a number of problems that OLED display manufacturers have chosen not to tackle, such as Sample-and-Hold-induced ETMB and near-black / shadow detail performance.

  • @KarimJovian
    @KarimJovian 5 месяцев назад +2

    How do you upgrade GPU if you are experiencing flickering when using VRR, on Xbox, PlayStation or Steam Deck consoles
    So we should set a frame cap or just keep it low like at 60 fps instead of 120?
    This was a great video but would have been helpful to see example in consoles too

  • @13ane
    @13ane 8 месяцев назад +12

    I was going to pick up a new OLED monitor later this year, but now you've convinced me to wait.

    • @yanooo2007
      @yanooo2007 7 месяцев назад +8

      Bruh… it’s a VRR issue not a oled issue…

    • @Erksah02
      @Erksah02 7 месяцев назад +1

      It is an oled issue. Many good ips displays do not have this issue.
      Every single woled does though​@@yanooo2007

    • @AngryPenguin22
      @AngryPenguin22 7 месяцев назад +8

      I won’t get another screen without proper VRR ever again. It’s just too good. I downgraded from a 42 inch 4k to a 27inch 1440p, just because of stable VRR.

    • @davisterisboss3387
      @davisterisboss3387 7 месяцев назад +1

      I just dont use vrr

    • @mikhailn4609
      @mikhailn4609 7 месяцев назад

      Wait for what? This issue exists with OLEDs since the dawn of VRR , what makes you think it'll go away any time soon?

  • @exscape
    @exscape 8 месяцев назад +3

    Thank you soooo much for this! VRR flicker drives me crazy on my LG C1, leading me to rarely use VRR in the games that would benefit from it most. Having actual, objective data not only showing that the problem exists (which many deny), but having the ability to actually compare different monitors in this regard is *incredibly* helpful!

  • @sampsalol
    @sampsalol 8 месяцев назад +4

    This is such an important topic, thank you for making this video since this needs more attention.

  • @JD-tj1rt
    @JD-tj1rt 7 месяцев назад +2

    It's nice to see this being talked about. VRR flicker was an unpleasant surprise for me.

  • @SterNebula
    @SterNebula 8 месяцев назад +18

    This flickering happened to me multiple times while playing red dead redemption 2 at night (in game), I though it was my GPU acting up, never thought it was the monitor (VA),
    thank you for bringing this up

    • @richardwilliams877
      @richardwilliams877 8 месяцев назад +4

      It's technically the monitor, but it's also how the system is sending the frames to the monitor-- flicker comes from wide, sudden swings in FPS. I made another comment here with some advice (please let me know if you can't find it), but the main thing you wanna try is setting a frame cap. Good luck!

    • @notaras1985
      @notaras1985 7 месяцев назад

      Do all OLED monitors have it?

    • @richardwilliams877
      @richardwilliams877 7 месяцев назад

      @@notaras1985 technically, yes, as it's currently a limitation within the technology of oled panels.

    • @or1on89
      @or1on89 7 месяцев назад +2

      @@richardwilliams877also LCD panels suffer from it. It’s a problem of variable voltage being fed to panels with variable refresh rate. On LCD panels is less noticeable but still happens…

    • @richardwilliams877
      @richardwilliams877 7 месяцев назад

      @@PREDATEURLT while I agree the issue should be discussed more/be more visible, and if possible marketing should be adjusted, are you saying the function should be outright disabled? At least on pc you can basically avoid it in most instances.

  • @jellowiggler
    @jellowiggler 6 месяцев назад

    Best place for really thorugh display reviews, over a wide gamut of models. Nice job Abby! Killing it! TY.

  • @Mck179
    @Mck179 6 месяцев назад +3

    I have the same problem with my OLED but still in VRR 120z when I go to 60z the flicker disappears.

  • @ЕвгенийСтасюк-ш8к
    @ЕвгенийСтасюк-ш8к 21 день назад +1

    Thank you very much for shedding light on this problem.
    I just have a huge dilemma.
    IPS - glow effect, which makes black scenes just terrible, and I play in the dark, but my eyes still feel great.
    MINI LED - flickering flickering, I had a VA mini led for two days and returned it, my eyes and head hurt beyond belief.
    OLED - I really want it, but I'm not sure I won't return it...
    I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. I really don't want to look at this glow effect...
    I really like the Samsung Odyssey OLED G6 and now there is a discount on it in my region... But I’m not sure if I can use it comfortably. I have rx7800xt and 7600x, in heavy games on high settings at 2k - 80-120 fps. Is it stable enough to minimize flicker?

  • @EmoEmu
    @EmoEmu 7 месяцев назад +30

    This woman is the hero we needed.

    • @eriklarsson3188
      @eriklarsson3188 7 месяцев назад

      *Heroine. She's female not male.

    • @1nZaneR
      @1nZaneR 7 месяцев назад

      ​@@eriklarsson3188I was just going for that pun too

    • @LooneyTo0n
      @LooneyTo0n 7 месяцев назад +4

      She's a great host, but let's not forget all the people doing the tests and coming up with the metodology behind them.

    • @eriklarsson3188
      @eriklarsson3188 7 месяцев назад +1

      @@LooneyTo0n Great *hostess for sure.

  • @husamkhan9694
    @husamkhan9694 7 месяцев назад +2

    Amazing video, you guys are definitely at the forefront of Monitor (and other devices) testing! Thank you for highlighting these realistic issues (that other reviewers don't seem to bring up), being able to create standards for testing and updating your testing methodology accordingly especially in such a short turn around.

    • @RTINGScomRD
      @RTINGScomRD  7 месяцев назад

      Thank you for all the kind words! We do our best to continue finding ways to test every facet of a product that people might care about or need to know! 💪

  • @Saith516
    @Saith516 8 месяцев назад +16

    My LG C2 does this. I thought it was an AMD issue (7900 XTX). The flicker is quite noticeable in dark scenes. Extremely annoying and ruins immersion.

    • @GeorgeTsiros
      @GeorgeTsiros 8 месяцев назад +5

      It can never be the gpu. The gpu can not alter how the display functions, at least not at a level that can cause flickering.

    • @richardmccullagh6929
      @richardmccullagh6929 8 месяцев назад +7

      Cap your frame rate low enough so that the lowest frame rate you are seeing isn’t all that much lower than the cap you put in place. For example if usually you are seeing say 60fps most of the time and sometimes it’s dipping down to 45-50ish but if it’s a really lite scene you fps may go up to 110. Putting a cap at say 70 fps would help to limit the maximum swing you see and should reduce the flicker you see or eliminate it completely depending on the cap you choose and the max variance dip below that cap you experience.

    • @jjlw2378
      @jjlw2378 8 месяцев назад +2

      I have never noticed this on my LG C2 with a 4090. Can you tell me what game and area I can use to test?

    • @tablettablete186
      @tablettablete186 7 месяцев назад +1

      ​@@jjlw2378Yeah, OP should share which games is causing it.

    • @Simon_Denmark
      @Simon_Denmark 3 месяца назад

      @@richardmccullagh6929 The thing is though that's it's not actually caused by FPS fluctuation and people get this wrong all the time. It's actually caused by frametime variance. I have VRR flicker in games like Tekken 8 that's engine limited to 60 FPS.

  • @brkbtjunkie
    @brkbtjunkie 7 месяцев назад +1

    Thanks for shedding light on this. Let me give you my own experience. I own a 65” C2 and sometimes will get flickering using a series x but playing the same game on my pc using the same tv, no flicker. In some instances, a game on XSX will flicker when settings are set to 120hz but it vanishes when set to 60hz.
    I can’t agree that flicker is caused by inconsistent framerates as I don’t get flicker in the scenario I described above.

  • @nicl4388
    @nicl4388 8 месяцев назад +4

    I can’t “like” this video enough! Thank you for highlighting this issue! I hope it lights a fire under these monitor manufacturers butts to fix this problem. I have the 32” 4k DELL Qd-OLED and the VRR flicker is really bad. I have gsync turned off in a lot of games 😢

    • @meki___6881
      @meki___6881 7 месяцев назад

      and turning it off doas solve it 100%?

  • @warin7214
    @warin7214 7 месяцев назад +1

    Thank you for making this helpful video and providing the data on your website. I've gone through more than a dozen monitors over the last several years due to VRR flicker. Your testing revealing that the issue is more problematic on VA and OLED panels vs IPS lines up perfectly with my experience. I don't understand why this issue is rarely covered by reviewers or how Nvidia and AMD have been certifying monitors like this.

  • @VitalyScherboo
    @VitalyScherboo 7 месяцев назад +6

    This video is both technical and funny as hell. Great work 😄

  • @SinnfullDuck
    @SinnfullDuck 3 месяца назад +1

    Any 43" ips mini led displays out there? I really want a 43" but the downsides of oled are just too much for my use case and I'm nit finding any mini led in that size that aren't VA.

  • @samh5886
    @samh5886 6 месяцев назад +1

    How big the variance/fluctuation in frame rate is necessary for this to be noticeable?
    Or is it more of percentage thing that depend on the maximum framerate of the monitor/TV?

  • @kamen.rider.decade
    @kamen.rider.decade 7 месяцев назад +3

    1:55 give this woman a Daytime Emmy

  • @dizzak101
    @dizzak101 28 дней назад +2

    This is actually an amazing video on VRR flicker. Surprised this isn't brought up more often as an issue for newcomers considering it affects the darkest darks that people look for in OLEDs

    • @1GTX1
      @1GTX1 18 дней назад +1

      When i had a VA monitor for a week, i thought that it was broken because of flicker, also because it was a cheap VA, the colors were much worse than my previous old IPS, it was worse at almost everything, other than black levels, but i also didn''t like how dark some of the games were where i couldn't see much. It also looked lower resolution than IPS even though it had same resolution..

  • @muttleydk
    @muttleydk 8 месяцев назад +27

    Thx for the hard work. Love your voice :D

    • @RTINGScomRD
      @RTINGScomRD  8 месяцев назад +7

      Thanks for watching! 😄

  • @Sairuscz1
    @Sairuscz1 8 месяцев назад +2

    Finally a media that address this issue. Thanks RT! I had to return Neo G7 after upgrading to 7800x3d and 4080 did not help. Some games just experience microstutters no matter what... It's anoying even on loading screens. Had to settle for IPS in the end.

  • @rustyshackleford4117
    @rustyshackleford4117 7 месяцев назад +11

    So glad RTngs is finally addressing this issue. I learned about it long ago, when the LG CX first came out and 4k@120Hz was the hot new shit on the 3090. VRR flicker was an ongoing issue that LG tried to combat with various firmware updates, and after almost a year of back and forth they finally admitted it was a hardware problem with how the displays physically handle modulation at refesh rates below 120hz or 60hz. Basically, they tested the displays at those refresh rate, but not at 90 or 100hz which is were the issue is most widespread especially in dark scenes.
    The sad part is, that was basically 4 years ago now -- and the issue seems to still existing on both LG's and Samsung's latest and greatest OLEDs and QD-OLEDs. A hardware fix was supposed to be the solution, but it seems that almost 4 years of updates, and there's been no fix in sight. For me, the issues mostly became less of a concern with the 4090 as that can play most games locked at 120FPS, so you don't run into the issue in nearly as many games.

    • @Olivia-W
      @Olivia-W 7 месяцев назад +1

      Hmm... I wonder if that's part of why Valve opted for a non-VRR display for the Steam Deck OLED.

    • @rustyshackleford4117
      @rustyshackleford4117 7 месяцев назад +1

      @@Olivia-W Yep absolutely that's why. In fact, the first OLEDs recently came out which address this problem finally! But they're actually only 2x new Samsung panels found in the new 2 new 2024 ASUS ROG zephyrus 14" and 16" laptops, check them out.
      How did they fix it? Internal panel clock speed runs at 960hz which is 4x the internal refresh of 240 and 120hz respectively. So these are actually the first OLED panels to have true VRR support with image brightness/flickering issues non existent with VRR enabled! Outside Asus, Razer is also using these 2 panels for their 2024 OLED laptops.
      How long until we see this same tech in a consumer TV or LG? Who knows, but it could be awhile down the road.

    • @dkindig
      @dkindig 5 месяцев назад +1

      💯 I'm feeling that pain right now. Just upgraded a few months ago from 5800X/3070 to 7800X3D/4070 Ti Super, mostly dictated by pricing tiers. Have been gaming at 1440p for the longest, experimented with super-resolution a bit (4k render downscaled to 1440) and was really happy with the improved video quality, but, I have discovered that to make the leap to 4k without technical issues will probably take a 4090 and at minimum a mini-led monitor. It seems that if you can't do 4k with 100-120 fps or more, it's not worth it.

    • @ragefires
      @ragefires 2 месяца назад

      @@rustyshackleford4117 by limiting to 120 fps/hz doesnt that solve everything, with VRR on?

  • @shirleysiu5958
    @shirleysiu5958 6 месяцев назад

    Thanks for your hard work. Other reviewers only mentioned how beautiful oled monitors were and never mentioned their intrinsic problems. They are not real reviewers, but just some paid advertisers

  • @copperypuddle3858
    @copperypuddle3858 8 месяцев назад +8

    I've gone throught a C9, C1, and now a G2 and have never noticed this. I'm not pretending I have a magic oled that doesn't do it, I'm just super thankful that somehow even now I never ever see this.

    • @lethalrave4621
      @lethalrave4621 8 месяцев назад +3

      Interesting! I have C1 and C2 and they both flicker to the point where g-sync is completely unusable. G-sync might as well not be an option in my case as the flicker is 10x more noticeable and distracting than any tearing or badly paced frames might be

    • @copperypuddle3858
      @copperypuddle3858 8 месяцев назад +2

      @@lethalrave4621What CPU and GPU do you have? Also what games do you play?
      I play Helldivers, Kingdom Come Deliverance, Red Dead Redemption 2, Cyberpunk 2077, Bannerlord, and few others.
      My rig is a R7 5800x with a 4090 and previous a 3700x and a 3080

    • @copperypuddle3858
      @copperypuddle3858 8 месяцев назад +2

      @@lethalrave4621I have a really sensitive eye for tearing and shader stutter. It really could be that I’m playing certain games with little FPS variance. I did see that obvious flickering in Cyberpunk and I have 130 hours in that game. Never once noticed VRR flicker. I admit I’m hesitant to look for it now as if I notice it I’ll never stop noticing it lol

    • @lethalrave4621
      @lethalrave4621 8 месяцев назад

      @@copperypuddle3858 Don't look for it, it will ruin your gaming experience! I hate it. My specs are 3900x and a 4070 ti, the flickers also happen on another PC that I have. All games that have any stutters will induce strong flickers anytime they stutter. Some games can flicker continuously in dark scenes likely caused by bad optimization and bad frame pacing. Interestingly enough, in super rare cases I can get this continuous dark scene flicker even with perfect steady framerate while having no frametime issues or drops. But generally the more framerate issues a game has the more terrible it is! Example games: RDR2 (flicker in some dark scenes and via rare stutters) Cyberpunk (Used to have horrible dark scene flickers but maybe due to a patch or something is way better now, now mostly only flickers during stutters which are rare) Starfield (big fat stutter flickers that happen often, and continuous dark scene flicker) Dead Space (Stuttefest flicker disco but no continuous dark scene flicker)

    • @Tectosaurus
      @Tectosaurus 7 месяцев назад +2

      As a fellow 4090 owner, that's why you don't notice it. The GPU just powers through everything and achieving high framerates at 4K and maxing out these 120hz displays is not a very difficult task. I rarely notice flicker, sometimes during loading screens or when dark games stutter but I'd say 98% of my gaming experience is flicker free, thanks to my rig. I do have the new MSI MPG 321URX on backorder tho and it being 240hz will 100% introduce more flickering opportunities, even with a 4090 this is completely unachievable in 99% of recent games so FPS caps will have to be introduced lol.

  • @xhall0910
    @xhall0910 28 дней назад +1

    Thank you for the hard work. Hard to find honest videos these days

  • @aperson1157
    @aperson1157 8 месяцев назад +6

    I'm glad to see some attention brought to this.
    As I understand it, the underlying issue is that the gamma curve changes with refresh rate - so unstable/sudden frame-time changes can result in flicker.
    I would generally look at CPU upgrades to help minimize this, more than a GPU upgrade.
    Perhaps measuring display gamma at different refresh rates and overlaying the results would give a better picture of what is actually going on with the display than flipping between 10 FPS and max refresh rate.
    But it's great to see any kind of metric we can use to judge how different displays compare against one another.

    • @bricaaron3978
      @bricaaron3978 8 месяцев назад

      There is no reason that gamma (or brightness) should be affected by framerate, though.

    • @cjack2355
      @cjack2355 7 месяцев назад

      @@bricaaron3978Monitor brightness changes with refresh rate, that’s why this happens

    • @bricaaron3978
      @bricaaron3978 7 месяцев назад +1

      @@cjack2355 I said there is no reason --- I should have said no _legitimate_ reason --- that brightness should be affected by framrate.

  • @MrSmitheroons
    @MrSmitheroons 7 месяцев назад

    This channel both gives me enough info to be glib for half a second about not buying OLED, but also enough information to understand why every other panel tech is likely to be flawed in some way as well, so I can stop feeling glib again. Thanks for all the thorough research! Keep going where the facts point! There is too much hype in the tech world, we need all the prudent application of the scientific method we can get!

    • @M_CFV
      @M_CFV 7 месяцев назад

      Get IPS, no flicker. "Worse" contrast until you tune it

  • @mhnoni
    @mhnoni 7 месяцев назад +3

    looks like Rtings just found out why some OLEDs give people headache, can't believe they do all this and share it with us for free. what a time to be alive!
    Thank you very much Rtings.

  • @Hausedj2
    @Hausedj2 7 месяцев назад +1

    As an LG 27 OLED user this review is very good. The only times I would see flicker is in loading screens. Another thing I would like you guys to test is grey scale uniformity. Like on my OLED I can see streaks of pixels that are just slightly different grey colour when they all are suppose to be the same colour. Especially visible on low brightness.

  • @charno_zhyem
    @charno_zhyem 8 месяцев назад +5

    I am hugely thankful for this video, for bringing this issue to (flickering) light, but I also disagree on some points:
    - The title is misleading. The video gets there later, but VA is waaay worse for flicker than OLED. My Samsung Q80T is obnoxious for flicker and I am considering getting an OLED simply to lower the flicker, as it cannot be worse than this.
    - Buying a better GPU is actually the opposite of what you should be doing. GPU bound gameplay is way more stable than CPU bound gameplay. What you actually want is being 100% GPU bound, rock solid 100%. I have a RTX 3060 + Ryzen 4800h laptop hooked to my TV and the poor single core performance of my Ryzen CPU is a way bigger culprit than my GPU.
    So upgrade your CPU, not GPU.

    • @Phil_529
      @Phil_529 8 месяцев назад +5

      The point is not to be GPU or CPU bound. You limit your FPS so you have headroom in both directions and the FPS counter doesn't move.

    • @charno_zhyem
      @charno_zhyem 8 месяцев назад

      @@Phil_529 Doesn't work for me. Tried Special K and RTSS. If the GPU isn't 100% I experience flicker. For example in Mass Effect LE with a cap at 117fps and actual FPS way above it I still experience flicker. Simply because FPS ! = HZ. I can observe my refresh rate going over 117hz in my TV display as there is no rock solid way to marry FPS and HZ, best is to be 100% GPU bound.

    • @Phil_529
      @Phil_529 8 месяцев назад

      @@charno_zhyem Right but this is a video about OLEDs. You can go watch "LG CX & C9 Unlikely to Get Fix for VRR Gamma Issue Caused by OLED Panel" by HDTV Test if you want. OLEDs are optimized for a certain static refresh rate and getting as close to that number as possible will alleviate the flicker. Being GPU bound really doesn't matter.

    • @Phil_529
      @Phil_529 8 месяцев назад

      @@charno_zhyem No offense but this video is about OLEDs which are inherently different from VA panels. Look up LG CX & C9 Unlikely to Get Fix for VRR Gamma Issue Caused by OLED Panel if you want to learn more. Being GPU bound really is irrelevant.

    • @zFA113NNINJA
      @zFA113NNINJA 8 месяцев назад

      Lol just no that doesn't make sense, in your instance it does because you have a very very slow cpu paired with a fast gpu. So yes YOU should upgrade your cpu... But most games ARE GPU bound, meaning most games entirely depend on what GPU you have, and not what CPU you have. Most games use 4 cores some very new ones can use 6, that's about it. As long as you have a semi new, strong-single core performance cpu, even like a i3 12100k ($100) will do the job for just about all games. You talk about being 100% gpu bound but your setup is 100% CPU bound lmao... So all around upgrade your GPU, not your CPU.. For UR case upgrade the $30 CPU and not the $300 GPU... yeah?

  • @TheVictorpenha
    @TheVictorpenha 5 месяцев назад

    I hope this brings more awareness to people and companies to try to solve this issue.
    Great job, RTings!

  • @Pinoisreadingabook
    @Pinoisreadingabook 8 месяцев назад +37

    imagine buying a $1000 monitor and having flickering... what a joke

    • @rotemlv
      @rotemlv 7 месяцев назад +2

      Word.

    • @USA92
      @USA92 7 месяцев назад

      Imagine being the leading bs artist on the streets. I guess that's LG.

    • @yosifvidelov
      @yosifvidelov 7 месяцев назад +3

      Indeed it is the sad reality and i experienced it first hand.

    • @whocares6302
      @whocares6302 6 месяцев назад

      this is how technology works.

    • @M_CFV
      @M_CFV 5 месяцев назад +1

      @@whocares6302 no, no it doesn't do it on all OLEDs, and it's extremely rare on IPS panels

  • @Phayze101
    @Phayze101 7 месяцев назад

    Thank you so much for improving the customer experience when analyzing displays for purchase.
    I will never forget back in 2006 when my father purchased a new 'LED' monitor! How great they were!
    Well the first gen LG model was $600. And it had a latency that basically made me start losing video games. I was playing counter strike at the time, and went from a CRT with virtually no latency (and one of those fancy high hz ones) to one that basically had like a 100+ ms latency.
    Since then I was always scared to buy a new monitor technology. Had to do hours and hours of research and dig through all the garbage.
    I bought a GL850 and a LG C1 and have loved them.
    Please keep innovating on the benchmarking space. Giving us the customer a better view into what we are actually getting.
    Hope you stay committed to fair and honest reviews as well.

  • @Eight_P
    @Eight_P 8 месяцев назад +12

    Absolutely love what you guys are doing.

  • @jeffersonmp4
    @jeffersonmp4 8 месяцев назад +2

    Does this OLED problem also happen with consoles or in other use cases like productivity or multimedia?

    • @Lead_Foot
      @Lead_Foot 8 месяцев назад +1

      If your console games run like crap then yes.

  • @Dedded00000
    @Dedded00000 3 месяца назад +3

    Does this happen to all OLEDS or is it just a bad luck thing?

  • @offspringfan89
    @offspringfan89 5 месяцев назад +1

    I was thinking about buying a 1440p OLED panel to replace my current 1080p Acer Nitro FreeSync Premium monitor, but after watching this, I think I'll buy another IPS monitor instead. I'm not very sensitive to image quality, so I'd rather have inferior contrast than flickering.
    Anyway, good job explaining the subject and thanks RTINGS staff for helping making consumers more informed.

  • @deus_nsf
    @deus_nsf 8 месяцев назад +10

    Also one of the solutions can be to extend the low threshold of your VRR range with 3rd party softwares like CRU, I noticed VRR flicker is mostly visible when low framerate compensation kicks in.

    • @deus_nsf
      @deus_nsf 7 месяцев назад

      @@PREDATEURLT I'm curious, what are the games in question?

    • @deus_nsf
      @deus_nsf 7 месяцев назад

      @@PREDATEURLT I wonder, can the LFC feature for VRR be completely disabled? So it just holds the refreshrate and introduce tearing in case of stutters? I guess it's possible, if you put your VRR low threshold just above max refreshrate /2, give it a shot I'm curious! Maybe you'll need to play with Vsync a little bit too.

    • @deus_nsf
      @deus_nsf 7 месяцев назад

      @@PREDATEURLT Ah yeah, fair point, I guess it's a per game basis, but I suppose maybe lowering your max refresh rate for the problematic games can be an option? 91 - 180?

    • @deus_nsf
      @deus_nsf 7 месяцев назад

      @@PREDATEURLT Damn, well, I guess fixed refresh and 360-480 Hz + will be the way to go then, maybe VRR just isn't suited for OLED.

  • @MrInkless
    @MrInkless 7 месяцев назад +1

    Thank you for shining light on this. Not everyone is aware of this issue with the different panels. Subscribed

  • @GeorgeTsiros
    @GeorgeTsiros 8 месяцев назад +6

    FFFFFFFFUCKING FINALLY someone mentioned it. It's NOT an OLED-specific problem. I had an asus xg32vq with horrible flickering. (i posted a link in your other vid)

  • @Growlizing
    @Growlizing 8 месяцев назад +1

    Love your work at RTINGS. Please keep it up!
    The framerate instability here is quite severe. Is this a huge problem with more realistic frame rate fluctuations?

  • @ChromeJob
    @ChromeJob 8 месяцев назад +7

    "… Just for funzies." Classic. Another winning video presentation by Abby.

  • @brianbowcutt249
    @brianbowcutt249 7 месяцев назад

    Excellent work, this is YEARS overdue. I gave up on VRR with my Sony A80J pretty quickly. It only worked half the time, had tons of limitations, and I gave up hope a firmware/PC Driver update would resolve the strobing and connectivity issues long ago. Still haven't seen a recent TV/Monitor handle VRR better than G-Sync IPS/VA displays from 5+ years ago, hideous unreliability of the early frame pacing hardware aside.

  • @RiasatSalminSami
    @RiasatSalminSami 6 месяцев назад +3

    It's the final nail in the coffin for me. Having increased risk of burn in was already bad enough. The fact that VRR is compromised on oled just ruins it for me.
    Yes there are workarounds, but those are not really workarounds but more like compromises.
    -Making sure you aren't having a huge framerate delta [ruins the convenience of VRR in the first place].
    -Lowering the VRR range [with LFC it will work to some extent, but it's gonna cause microstuttering].
    -Disabling VRR [should this even be considered as solution?]

    • @slumy8195
      @slumy8195 6 месяцев назад +1

      Buys vrr screen
      cant use vrr cuz flicker
      forced to turn of vrr
      *POS PURCHASE*

    • @Antipika
      @Antipika 6 месяцев назад +1

      That's why I'm staying on IPS. Yes there are drawbacks too, but I'd rather get stable VRR, no burn-in and still pretty good colour accuracy overall than all the drawbacks coming from OLED. + Not having to spend another $800+ for a monitor that will flicker.
      No VRR is just out of question, like is this 2005 again?

    • @RiasatSalminSami
      @RiasatSalminSami 6 месяцев назад

      @@Antipika Exactly. These are just expensive monitors with compromised VRR and short lifespan.
      The motion clarity of oled was really appealing but the drawbacks simply aren't worth it, for me.

  • @Saturn2888
    @Saturn2888 8 месяцев назад +1

    What about TVs with VRR? They aren't VESA-certifed, but I'm wondering if they experience this issue as well.

    • @Tectosaurus
      @Tectosaurus 7 месяцев назад

      Any OLED display will flicker with VRR.

  • @MLadie96
    @MLadie96 7 месяцев назад +19

    The biggest problem is that poeple don't notice it. People won't see the difference between gsync on or off, won't see flicker. A huge part of the community is legit blind.

    • @soylentgreenb
      @soylentgreenb 4 месяца назад

      If people cared about image quality LCDs would have been relegated to laptops and CRTs would have been the only real option until OLED.

    • @Steve30x
      @Steve30x 4 месяца назад

      I see it in my va monitor and it drives me nuts.

  • @ItsMeChillTyme
    @ItsMeChillTyme 7 месяцев назад

    Really good presentation by the host, to the point and non-distracting. Also, good on RTINGS for bringing topics like these up when others will not. Navigating the tech world isn't as simple as trusting one channel's opinions anymore. Hope more topics like these would be covered in the future. Thanks.

  • @gultar4513
    @gultar4513 7 месяцев назад +13

    While you are demonstrating a real problem, you are not test VRR. 10 FPS is not a VRR value. All monitors have a FPS floor were VRR will disengage. I have not seen a monitor with a VRR floor below 40, through that does not mean there is not one. Once below the VRR floor the Low Frame Compensateor will kick in and that is most likely what is causing the flicker. If you want this test to be meaningful about VRR then you need to incorporate the VRR floor of your monitor. Lastly if someone buys a monitor for VRR they should always be running a Frame Cap. Set the cap a few frames below the max frame rate. This will insure that if you play older games that can go above your monitors frame rate VRR will remain active. Pushing 300 fps on a 280hz monitor is not VRR.

    • @jackoberto01
      @jackoberto01 7 месяцев назад +1

      Yeah this is true, my 144hz monitor has a VRR range of 40-144 or 48-144 depending on if you use DP or HDMI. So having it behave correctly outside that range would be odd if anything.

    • @quintrapnell3605
      @quintrapnell3605 7 месяцев назад

      I agree I think it’s unexpected for VRR to be engaged below 60 FPS

  • @Kubose
    @Kubose 8 месяцев назад +1

    VRR flicker was one of the big reasons I returned the AW2725DF oled, it was pretty brutal switching from an IPS and much worse even than the LGC1 I also use. Capping FPS certainly helps in a lot of games (and I've found that using RTSS can reduce flicker even more than capping in-game or through control panel), but turning off VRR was the only thing that really did the job on that monitor. Coming from what was basically a perfect VRR monitor to my eyes (pg27aqn), having to choose between no vrr or headache inducing flicker was a dealbreaker for a $1000 screen. Really cool that RTings has this section now, it'll definitely make buying new monitors less of a crapshoot (and hopefully inspires display companies to try solving this issue).

  • @RadicDotkey
    @RadicDotkey 8 месяцев назад +4

    Please roast DELL for lying and blaming the GPU, cable, games, Windows, etc and hiding the fact that their S3422DWG ultrawide VA monitor is flickering terribly in dark areas when VRR drops below 60Hz. They dismissed my warranty claim as being unjustified.

  • @petersvideofile
    @petersvideofile 7 месяцев назад

    I just want to say a huge thankyou! Not only do you do all this research but you make all your data available. This is fantastic. It allowed me to figure out which monitors might be compatible with LCD shutter glasses to view 3d content and I was able to purchase some compatible units. WIthout your data it would have been totally like shooting in the dark.

  • @גוהטנקס
    @גוהטנקס 8 месяцев назад +1

    Hi, I wanted to ask if you guys will be adding this vrr flicker test to TVs aswell?

  • @noproblem4158
    @noproblem4158 Месяц назад

    Glad there is at least one trustworthy source of reviews for OLEDs, almost all other reviewers only care about the commision they get from selling OLEDs.

  • @Robspassion
    @Robspassion 7 месяцев назад +2

    I have the MPG 321URX QD-OLED and it has some VRR Flicker depending on the game but it is there and I cannot unsee it even after the latest Firmware that claims to fix VRR flicker.

  • @Jmaskoflooneytunes
    @Jmaskoflooneytunes 8 месяцев назад +1

    Its insane that I first encountered this issue on my G9 last night and you guys uploaded this around the same time

  • @PokeBlu249
    @PokeBlu249 7 месяцев назад

    Amazing video. I can't believe it has taken this long for a channel to make a video on this topic as solid as this is.

  • @delenius1
    @delenius1 7 месяцев назад

    This is good to know, but I have never noticed it myself on the aw3225qf. If the frame rates are that inconsistent, wouldn’t the frame stutter be the larger problem anyway?

  • @freyjabun
    @freyjabun 7 месяцев назад

    not in the market for a new monitor at all right now, but i loved how thorough the testing was. this kind of work is really fascinating, i'll be subscribed for more :]

  • @fcfdroid
    @fcfdroid 7 месяцев назад

    Bought my Odyssey G7 from your guy's link because of informed videos like this yo support a while back. Couldn't be happier!

  • @choastech7
    @choastech7 Месяц назад

    Where did you guys get the sample images? they look stunning! specially the dark one with the red lights.

  • @Anthony-ex6hq
    @Anthony-ex6hq 3 месяца назад

    Thank you for making this video. When I first got my LG CX I thought I was losing my mind. I’m very sensitive to backlight flicker hence my move to OLED in the first place however I was not aware of VRR flicker at the time. It’s unfortunate but for me keeping it disabled is my best option.

  • @baohoaily
    @baohoaily 3 месяца назад

    Abby, any idea why only two OLED's seem to score well with this? The OG Dell DW, and this year's MSI 321URX?

  • @Qbert2030
    @Qbert2030 7 месяцев назад +1

    Very very well done. Much appreciated and love seeing this kind of ground work being done in a much needed area.

  • @SpontaneousWeasel
    @SpontaneousWeasel 7 месяцев назад

    Great video! I rely on your sterling review quality rtings!!! Also this video was filled with great humour too - Abby's face when experiencing technical woes is exactly how that moment feels lol

  • @KaldekBoch
    @KaldekBoch 7 месяцев назад +1

    I have an Alienware AW3423DW (G-SYNC version) and never noticed any flicker ever. Why would the AW3423DWF flicker but the AW3423DW doesn't? Note that I set my refresh rate to 120 FPS usually and cap my frame rate at 100FPS in most games, as I'm not playing any online competitive games.

  • @snajper3152
    @snajper3152 7 месяцев назад

    quality of this material is outstanding, congrats!

  • @williamtopping
    @williamtopping 8 месяцев назад +11

    Had this issue with my Dell Alienware 34".
    More noticeable on dark scenes.
    In the end it broke before 30 days, and I ended up getting a refund.
    Quite glad now really. Happily running an IPS until the tech matures.
    I will still be able to use this IPS monitor long after that Alienware bites the dust.
    Have to say though, I do miss those inky blanks.
    When it's not flickering of course.

    • @Phil_529
      @Phil_529 8 месяцев назад +2

      Can't say IPS ever sparks joy for me. I liked the Gsync module in my IPS monitors but that grey black and inability to do HDR is just too big of a hit to trade off slightly worse VRR and occasional flicker in dark scenes on my OLED monitor.

    • @MrDutch1e
      @MrDutch1e 8 месяцев назад +2

      You could have just turned vrr off. It's not necessary on OLED. Which is why nobody cares who's actually turned vrr off. OLED is so fast VRR isn't necessary. IPS and VA it's basically a must. Especially VA because it's so slow.

    • @Phil_529
      @Phil_529 8 месяцев назад +4

      @@MrDutch1e VRR off still causes stutter if Vsync is left on or screen tearing if vsync is turned off.

    • @MrDutch1e
      @MrDutch1e 8 месяцев назад

      @Phil_529 I've literally owned aw3423dwf, 27gr95qe, 27gs95qe, aw2725df, mpg271qrx and on none of them did I experience any tearing or stuttering. Played a bunch of games like dead space remake, cod, battlefield, Horizon zero dawn, a plague tale and a bunch more. It is not an issue on OLED in my experience. Vsync off, gsync off, no fps cap.

    • @Phil_529
      @Phil_529 8 месяцев назад

      @@MrDutch1e Vsync off and no tearing. Sure thing buddy. -Posted from my AW3225QF

  • @KillahMate
    @KillahMate 7 месяцев назад

    Oh god, this was driving me crazy and I couldn't find any publication talking about it! Just a bunch of Reddit posts. Happy to see this incorporated into the RTINGS testing, and hopefully it helps create some pressure for display manufacturers to shape up!

  • @dogedogego
    @dogedogego 7 месяцев назад +1

    holy crap, finally someone major is addressing this
    i’ve been gaslit for ages on this

    • @dogedogego
      @dogedogego 7 месяцев назад

      on that exact samsung model no less, holy crap

    • @DrakonR
      @DrakonR 7 месяцев назад +1

      This is the Samsung scanlines fiasco all over again.

  • @sashicat9986
    @sashicat9986 8 месяцев назад

    Yes, thank you, finally someone bringing more attention to this, the VRR flicker is real and super annoying - and hardly no reviewer mentions this!!!

  • @HawkSea
    @HawkSea 6 месяцев назад +1

    Is flicker enough to replace under warranty?

  • @michaelkreitzer1369
    @michaelkreitzer1369 7 месяцев назад

    Thank you so much for covering this! It's about damn time somebody did. Sadly, it's too late for me. I'm out a grand because nobody would freaking talk about this, and I had to learn the hard way how unbelievably bad OLED's look with VRR.