Diesel to Electric Sailboat Re-Power, Part One: Installation
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- Опубликовано: 8 ноя 2015
- In Part One, Jack Wilken of Seattle Boat Works describes the systems and layout of the new electric power system that has replaced the diesel engine. This is all in the old engine compartment, which on a Yamaha 36 is under the V-berth. You can read the article that goes with this video here: digital.turn-page.com/i/578341... and at www.48north.com
Managed charging control....you were ahead of the curve on that one sir.
Thank you for a simple clear video. Currently planning a 12hp petrol to electric.
This is really cool to see. We also converted to electric in 2015 and have been cruising since July 2017. Electric propulsion is the best way to go if you know how to use your sails and only need the motor as an auxiliary propulsion system.
How come you dont tell everybody how many times SEATOW has pulled you off being aground because that elect motor doesn't have the guts to do what a diesel would do, and towed you when your battery's were dead and you couldn't get to a safe anchorage. And how you had to buy a generator to keep running the intercoastal, and you still had battery problems.. The only person you are kidding Herbert is yourself.
If your aux power doesn't go bong bong bong when its running, you aint got much.
@@rsmithotis I've met an old sailmaker who did plenty of cruising in 2 different yachts around 70ft in length. Neither had an engine. Even in the 40's there was plenty of commercial timber cargo ships that had no engine apart from the one on the windlass.
Sailing without an engine can be done, it just requires some skill, planning and patience
@@rsmithotisare you 4?
I love this conversion.
I agree, this video was book but lacked a very important thing for us and that was price.
By the way this is a Lynch Electric motor, I believe manufactured in the UK, you can buy them on EBay.
I was a little surprised at how loud it sounded. I'm used to those damn Honda Fits about running me over in a parking lot because I don't hear them coming. I wonder how quiet this is with the insulated cover on?
Nice and clean in the same place now plus you can carry a spare motor with you.
Love your video hope to see more of this love from Israel
Its the wave of the future and many have it now.
What consideration has been given to the prop size and prop pitch?
hows it working couple years later and what are your costs and whats the upkeep or maintence or repair issues
Looks so good right up to the point where you are fighting wind and storm and the coast is getting ever nearer and the batteries are getting weaker and weaker.....The generator is not optional. Add it all up the expense, figure out where the generator is going to be with it's fuel tank and then decide how great an idea this is. If you are just afternoon boaters, maybe.
That's why you have a generator
Why would you be sailing near a rocky coast in a storm?
Hi Jack nice set up - we wondered if you considered getting the battery stack from a crashed electric car and reconfigured it as a 48v stack? Good motor Cedric will be pleased how you have used it : )
How long can you run the Motor before you run the batteries down
How much weight was added with all those batteries and how many solar panels needed to be added? And a diesel generator is needed too? What will happen if the shaft seal leaks and sprays the motor with seawater?
Great concept!
The sound is different, yet I would be very interested as to the decibels with the engine (I have a perkins) and the sound decibels of this motor. Also did you attempt to use any damping materials for sound!
I haven't heard many marine diesels running but I've heard the Perkins installed in a 60's wood Monk designed cruiser & I loved it
Awesome. How well does it work when getting splashed with salt water???
That's slick... love it.
clean install
I agree, whoever did the install did a super clean job.
Nice build, does this motor do regen when you are on sail via the prop?
brushed motors do not have regen... They can make this now with brushless tech .
Interesting! Thanks for sharing. So what happens if the controller goes tits up ?
Mammaries on a boat can have great influence
Who makes the batteries?
Great project if money is not an issue
are u happy by electric motor more then disel engine?
Hi I'm looking for cheoy Lee ketch 45 to 53 project is okay to if you know any please let me know
How long can this setup run before needing recharge?
Regen?
Cruising speed with this setup?
Aft bottom screen?
Wouldn't it be better to have just one Winston 1000 ahc lithium cell? Or two 700 aha lithium cells? Or Im a missing some point here?
Instead of all batteries?
that is what I tought. Why use ancient lead acid tech when you can get way more capacity with lithium cells. It's not like tesla's drive around on lead acids. Probably 1/3 of a tesla pack can power a boat all day.
And a brushed motor? How old is this video, 20 years ago?
The point you are missing is that the issue is producing more power that you are consuming. 1 HP = 746 watts. 10 HP for an hour is 7460 watt hours. Assuming your battery is big enough to deliver this, you now need to recharge it. Power (Watts) is = to Volts x Amps. If it is a 48 Volt System, then you need 7460 / 48 = 155 Amps for a solid hour or 77 Amps for 2 hours or 39 Amps for 4 hours, etc. If you had a 1000 watt solar collector that works for 6 hours a day, at 48 Volts that would produce 1000/48 =22 amps x 6 hour = 132 watthours. To produce the 7460 watt hours used above would require 57 days.........and you could not use any power at all during that time for anything else or the required time is extended. OR you could get a 10000 watt solar collector and then it would only take 5.7 days. I learned this stuff in high school physics class in 1964 and have used it frequently ever since. Go learn it for yourself before you do it!
Lithium batteries are good if weight and space are an issue, but that's not a problem in a boat. They also cost much more and have a comparable life span
Now what kind of solar and wind turbine system would you need to charge this? Along with everything else being converted to electric. ie. all electric galley, water maker, all electronics, air conditioner. water heater, pumps. And the dozens of other things?
+Urban Deployment Yes although this guy doesn't seem to be interested in this avenue anyone in a cruising lifestyle isn't going to be returning to a dock with an electric hookup. I see sailboats running solar but I've not yet seen anyone really trying to up the available real estate for solar....perhaps custom made biminis over the cockpits...I'm looking to exceed a 1000 watts solar...thats going to be maybe 10 panels!
+tazmun I was researching some panels a few months back. They have 325 watt panels now. 4 over the dodger and binimi would be perfect. Then a couple of wind turbines.
Learn the math, 1 KW is a drop in the bucket. 1 HP = 746 Watts.10 HP = 7460 Watts. One hour on the motor would be a day's production (if the sun is out). and that assumes NO OTHER CONSUMPTION!
you still running this setup?
how much did it cost ?
Lots
why no water cooling jacket
Amount of batteries seems overkill. Right?
where do you purchase these engines ? and how much
Motors
This with a generator on board in the event you want extended range. Best of Both Worlds.
@@cornelisvanderbent2092
Great. I designed a small cat and am thinking of alternative power. It is bike frame pedal powered but can be powered electric.
Seahorsefun.com
@@cornelisvanderbent2092
Thanks mate! Its modular. I can install a 24' center hull and make it a trimaran. And also folds up but I didn't want to show that public yet.
What about waterproofness? If the engine compartment is somehow flooded will the motor still work when dried out or is the whole system gonna get fried?
Water, even seawater, is not actually very conductive, so it would probably continue to function.
Ask the Rigging Doctor that posted above, His went for a salt water ( brackish ) swim a few months ago and it went back to the factory, I believe it was all replaced. The unit he has the electronics are attached to the electric motor so it ll went under.
@@LoanwordEggcorn that's complete bullshit. If a boat sinks and is recovered, pretty much ever piece of electrical equipment on board will need to be replaced
Is this a brushless motor? It's sound so loud
GIven the pancake shape of the motor, it's probably a permanent magnet, brushless DC. Some of the noise may be from the prop shaft bearings, donut, etc. Electric motors themselves make very little noise when turning. Also, it sounds like they have a gearbox. If so, much of the noise is from the gears.
It looks like a Lynch Motor & yes, they are brushless
it could be me, but why are there only two wires going into the motor? Brushless would need at least 3.
They should go direct drive instead….it'll quieten down a lot.
Nice🤓
Questions. Make, length, weight of this sailboat? How many batteries? Looks like 8. How do you charge sway from shore power?
Would I be able to use a Tesla motor?
they should watch uma's rebuild...they could quieten this down a lot...
peddles in the cockpit might be useful, and cheaper, interesting video nonetheless
There you go David, a perfect solution...That is if you have an imflatable boat that weighs 10 lbs!
No gearbox?
Not required. Entire range of rpm is generated by the Motor itself . And torque is same over all speeds
But look at all that dead space around that motor. I'd want it to be either batteries or a generator.
why use pulleys why not direct drive if you have full torque at 0 RPM
There's no way that this instant torque can be of any advantage on a sailboat. It's not a tires and asphalt combo, it's hydrodynamics and a propeller. However I agree that a direct drive would reduce the energy losses between the motor and the propeller.
because RPM ... propeller dont need so much rpm ... using reduction 1:5 you get 5:1 torque and at least you get some hours plus to cruise.
one item people forget is the torque/energy with a propellor twice the size of the gasser/diesel type. you can run the electric motor at 25 % of maximum electric motor rpm and not heat up, kinda like a forklift, you do not race it at full speed-ever, either you use a direct drive or a belt and pully, my intent is to inform people to get a much larger propellor, hey it could even have a variable pitch to the blades to alternate between cruise and god like thrust in situations, just my thought. my boat runs 8 hours on 25% thrust and I do 4 to 6 knots, depending on current and wind.
I calculate with 200 amp-hr at 48 volts the motor could run for 1 hr, at 10 hp (25%), if it uses all of the energy. Than you wait 4 hours to charge if you have power.
I agree, this is ridiculous. I've been looking at alternative ways to push a sail boat for 30 yrs and all fail miserably. The electric have no run time. Ask these con artists for run times as part of the guarantee, full money back option. And watch them run......
Maybe ridiculous for you. Silently motoring in/out of harbors producing no fumes or having to worry about any diesel/oil/spillage/refills/filters is very compelling. The setup will evolve further with better batteries tech.
The point is more power in than power out. If you tie up to shore power every night and buy $3 - $5 worth of electricity, then it's about the batteries. Without a daily dose of shore power, then it's about the power source. And pay close attention to how far away it is downwind to the rocks at all times.
Here is your math Andy: 10 HP x 746 = 7460 Watts. In 1 hour, it would be 7460 Watt Hours. DC Watts = Volts x Amps, so with a 48 Volt Stack, you would have more like 42 Volts to start, under load. So in the beginning, 7460 Watts / 42 Volts = 177 Amps. If your stack is rated 200 Amp Hours, in one hour, 177/200= 89% consumption. In reality, the voltage would drop very quickly and worse, with such a deep discharge cycle, the stack would be shot in vary short time.
Then think about wiring for
177 Amps, and the heat gererated by a 10 HP motor and even the batteries would be hot due to their internal resistance. This is such a terrible idea that it boggles the mind!
No oil. No smelly diesel. No leaky cooling. No oil change. No filter changes. No exhaust. Silence. I love it!
No range, about 10 miles.
Electric Conversions are tough. We just converted an Aquila 44 to all electric. We splash the boat today in Tampa Florida. If you are interested check out our project page at www.novaluxeyachts.com
There is a Finnish electric motor manufacturer making an electric motor that generates electricity when the sails are up.
Just wondering, have you ever seen a perpetual motion machine in actual operation? I've been looking for one for at least 55 years...
Robert Applegate it is called hydro generation.
This means the electric motor works in reverse to charge the battery.
This is similar to the way regeneration works when you brake in hybrid cars.
ruclips.net/video/aP9gasAKDHM/видео.html
In regards, to your perpetual machine keep looking.
hi
Give me a diesel any day.
😂
This is neat and all, but it's obvious that the old man does not really understand his system, thanks for sharing any way...
Why the derogatory tone? The guy is just trying to explain it in simple terms to the filmmaker. Maybe he's older than you, but your bigoted attitude isn't any better than racism. Ever hear of agism?
this is how to to replace diesel engine with batteries lol
Massive increase in weight & complexity
@@FlatlandMando Perhaps a decrease in weight. The combined weight of the engine, fuel, and tank will be less than lithium batteries and d.c. motor.
@cornskid the price of batteries sooo funny
old vid, but it IS at zero RPM and gets LOWER as RPM gets higher.
Young man, that is a MOTOR not an engine.!!
I purchased 2006 Ford fiesta diesel engine 3rd hand car at rs380000/- but so many mechanic including Ford dealer stolen so many parts so after spending lots of money rs.265000/-for repairing in 4 year but it's immovable. can I get that electrical motor at low cost at India.
If your country hadn't adhered to socialism for so long you would have lots of other options. Too bad it did.
always amazes me that the originators rarely answer their followers queries....
I pioneered electric tourboats in California. I drive an electric car. But I think this is silly.In terms of weight, and energy per pound, all important things in sail boats and airplanes.. this doesn't compute. Sure you can dock and un-dock and run for a couple of hours, and if that is all you are ever going to do.. day or week end sail, and go back to a dock where you can recharge.. it will work, and it is quiet and clean. But it is a glorified golf cart. Some lithium batteries from a wrecked Leaf would at least tilt the space weight budget in the right direction. Kudos for being really minimal impact wise, And the peace of it .. lovely. You just cant cruise it.
SMART MAN....PAY ATTENTION PEOPLE!
It's a SAILBOAT!!!
I love the idea of electricity.
Being an electrician I have nothing but admiration for,the install.
Being a cruiser the limitations are a deal breaker.
Every crossing I have done ( currently in New Zealand) the motors, I have 2 in my Catamaran have done a fair amount of work to get me to my destination.
Most sailors will motor if needed, I have met 2 old school travelers that refuse to motor.
Let’s just take our last passage, Minerva Reef to New Zealand, 5 days and an ocean passage that needs to be taken seriously, the less time spent on the open ocean the better.
We motored the last 2 days to get to Opua NZ, why you mights ask? Is it not a sailboat?
🎼The answer my friend is blowing in the wind, the answer is blowing in the wind” 🎼
As we entered the Bay of Islands the wind started and 50 knots hit the boats behind us, 2 such boats that refused to motor said it was the worst conditions they have ever had, they have 120,000 nm and seventeen years of cruising under their belt.
He admitted that he made a very bad call.
An electrically powered vessel has no option.
That said my admiration is true and we should all be in debt to the forward thinkers in our world which you are one.
Cheers
Elco,please this man a 20 hp outboard with all those batteries he will get amazing range and the plug in capabilities for a generator and solar panels. Why reinvent the wheel
Concern-hydrogen goes boom..all these batteries should maybe be vented after charging, during charging, and definitely prior to motor use...we don't see much original venting in diesel powered boats unlike where gas power inboards venting is a must have.
Those are completely sealed AGM batteries. No need for venting.
Murphy’s law would have you run out of power in bad weather resulting in death. That would conclude the “ let’s be cool, and make my sail boat as unreliable as possible “ project.
Murphy was an optimist .... anyway, the motor can go bad nd NOW the controller can go bad ...they seem to and they cost a lot to repair .... and until it's replaced you can't use your motor .... Give me permanent Magnet and a simple controller(reostat).
Just direct connect motor to batteries if controller dies.
If this is a brushless motor .... the type everybody's pushing .... if the controller(read=$100-$300 or so dollars), goes bad(and they do), you might as well have a paddle for sculling if you don't have, or can't quickly get a new controller .....
A lot of bad ideas here, this is the worst. A reostat is a varible resistor, part of everything that goes through it turns into heat which is wasted energy!
This is crazy....just put in a simple diesel. A lot happier in the long run
why lead acid? , so old school, use li-fe pho, one quarter the size and 1/3 the weight. no fumes and 20times the life, good idea what he did but much better technology is available now
According to SAILING EMERALD STEAL the battery life one a bank last about 7years if set up properly
But they have a lot in common with explosives!
Much cheaper with lead, I guess!
Range? 5 miles? Ten miles? Useless except for day sails.
Keith B He said there would also a generator which will only turn on when needed. I’m also guessing that when he is sailing with wind the propeller will spin and recharge the batteries as well
@timemachine_194 but 32 panels sounds like a lot, where can you put that on a 45ft sail boat?
That is a very noisy electric motor!!
Crikey ! That can't be practical,all those batteries and electrickery,a nice little diesel engine would chug all day long,an be happy to do so.Electric cars too,you run out of sparks,you gotta re-cook the battery,how long does that take, providing you can find somewhere to plug it in ? We're all bein spoon fed electric this that an the other, crazy.
Given that this video is dated, most is still relevant. Rechargeable batteries, via solar panels and wind turbine. Run out of diesel away from shore you're hooped. Check out Sailing Uma or Rig Doctor. Each system has pros and cons. There are more parts on an internal combustion engine alone than the complete electric system. More parts means more maintenance and more break downs.
Normalize the audio, one is speaking quietly the other is speaking loudly.
This is a common issue on yt. It's really annoying when they don't mic their guest and then they dub in loud music.
"Instant torque" from an electric motor on a sailboat actually hinders performance for it creates (faster) aquatic cavitations at the propeller. This is not the hard asphalt and tires combo that can take advantage of the extra/instant torque. It's water, hydrodynamics and a propeller.
Not the same at all.
If he got rid of that dirty lithium tech he might be on to a winner, Why not use a Capacitor bank instead? Lithium will only take 1200 charges, But Capacitors will take over 1 million + charges and free space up and save weight as well as putting the same power out all day like any battery, Just an Idea!
Give me an old diesel any day over this crap. Have 10,000 dollars in batteries in 7 yrs. might be good for a pond or you can still buy those little stick on motors for plastic boats at the toy store would be ok.
Electric cars are the same idea and lead acid batteries failed miserably. Any sailor will tell you that an engine that runs max 2 hours is useless in a sailboat. Please people, this is very poor performance.
I had one of those original electric cars that ran on golf cart batteries, just like this. When I left home, I never knew if I was going to make it back. Often, I did not! Google:CitiCar. He said that the motor was the same as the the other. 12 Hp x 746 = 9 Kilowatts. When produced from about 42 Volts: 9000/42=214 Amps. He said 100 Amp hours: 100/214=.46 x 60 mim = 28 Minutes! Which will not happen because the batteries will tail off before that and then they will begin to age.
In a few months or a year, when the system is completely undependable, you are shopping for about $1000 worth of batteries, that is, if you aren't on the rocks before then! People, you must learn the math before taking this step! It is pretty and stupid, unless all you do is put around a lake.
Then of course, you could cover every square inch of the boat with solar, but as he said, then the motor would get into temperature trouble. Why, well because its a 9 kilowatt heater in a little hole under the floor. Add fans, sure, but where does that power come from? Plus you have got to run autopilots and plotters and radar and and radios and computers, etc. How do you start the engine and charge the batteries? Last week, someone showed a system where they backup the boat battery system with the propulsion batteries for an electric motor. What could possibly go wrong with that plan?
If you need it to go for more then 2 hours at full power then it needs more batteries, obviously he doesn't.
People were also running lead acid powered cars on city runs, you just use it within limits.
That is a very nice concept.....right up until you get a wind shift and the prevailing wind is suddenly toward the rocks! Now what do you do with less than an hour of propulsion...maybe much less than an hour? Pay attention....the wind doesn't blow electric cars up on a rocky coastline in the middle of the night in a bad storm when you are in a bathing suit with no shoes, no purse, no money, no anything! IT IS APPLES AND ORANGES...cars make a little sense and boats make no sense!
That's why he is adding a generator, fyi. The generator is there to run any onboard equipment, charge batteries on dark days, plus act as an emergency backup. The generator should be far more than enough to power the motor. If he really wanted to, he could by a prop that reverses. That would allow him to charge the batteries while he's under sail at the sacrifice of about a half a knot. You are right, if you require a motor for many hours you may not want this system. However, he is trying to sail and not be a motorboat.
To charge batteries, you have got to apply a voltage higher than the batteries' output voltage. If you want to charge quickly, it must be significantly higher to overcome the internal resistance of the system. To generate about 50 volts, a prop would have to spin like a windmill. This obviously will not occur under sailing conditions of a few knots. Trust me people, learn the physics and math of this before you do it! As I said earlier, it is pretty and stupid unless you can reliably generate more power than the motor and motor cooling requires (plus the requirements of the rest of the boat). Oh, and if you want to do this with a generator, consider whether it might be more efficient to hook the prop to that engine rather than to a generator to charge batteries then to power a motor with all the controls, etc. This is not rocket science, but it is real physics. If you take out more than you put in, the batteries go dead.
Just useless if you don't give the specs of the electric motor and the diesel you had in it previously, now there is no comparison
peddles in the cockpit might be useful, and cheaper, interesting video nonetheless
peddles in the cockpit might be useful, and cheaper, interesting video nonetheless