Naghmeh’s Story: Abuse and Betrayal Behind
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- Опубликовано: 23 авг 2024
- For years, Naghmeh Panahi heroically advocated for the release of her husband-Iranian-American pastor, Saeed Abedini-from an Iranian prison. Yet months before his release, Naghmeh revealed a dark secret: for years, Saeed had been physically, emotionally, and sexually abusing her.
Yet rather than rallying to support this battered wife, Naghmeh says the Christian community attacked her. And she says some-including Franklin Graham and Jay Sekulow-relentlessly pressured her to reconcile with her abusive husband, or to even lie about what happened.
In this second of a two-part podcast with Naghmeh, you’ll hear audio from an intense meeting Naghmeh and her pastor had with Franklin Graham and Saeed in 2016. I also share emails between Franklin and Naghmeh, where Franklin calls Pastor Saeed a “hero” and rebukes Naghmeh for revealing her husband’s abuse and embarrassing him.
You’ll also hear about a surprise visit to Naghmeh’s house that Franklin Graham arranged by flying Saeed, his parents, two counselors, and a bodyguard to Boise on a private jet.
And you’ll hear part of a campus-wide gathering at Liberty University where Saeed is praised as a “hero of the faith.” This convocation happened several months after Naghmeh went public about Saeed’s abuse.
Support and follow The Roys Report:
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Link to Part One: “Ex-Wife Tells of Abuse & Betrayal Behind #SaveSaeed
• Ex-Wife Tells of Abuse...
Link to Liberty University convocation with Saeed Abedini:
• Saeed Abedini - Libert...
Link to CT article: “Saeed Abedini Answers Abuse Allegations”
www.christiani...
Naghmeh, you are more than a conqueror! May more voices be heard to stop this corruption in the church!
amen 🙏
I believe Naghmeh. What a courageous woman! Thank you for giving her a platform Julie. I have just got out of a church where the pastor is abusive. The abuses were covered up for years and I didn't see the abuse after being there for 6 years. Sadly there are a lot of wolves in sheep clothing in the church now. May God continue to protect Naghmeh and her children.
Lord, please shine a spotlight on these abuses in Your church so your bride can be spotless before You. Amen
As a woman who walked away from church (yet embraced my Saviour), for the same reason, I feel every part of this testimony. The truth will conquer the lie.
I listened for the first time since the release of Saeed. I must admit that I was part of the Goliath that Naghmeh has faced. At that time, I assigned impure motives to her accusations. I have never seen the giant she was facing. I offer Naghmeh my apologies. What makes my judgement of a battered woman difficult to understand is that I once walked in her shoes. FG’s advice to her at the time was exactly the collective voice of most all leaders in the Christian Church.
I could have written every word of this comment myself - you just read my heart! I'm so glad God opened our eyes to the reality of the situation and our own failings here so we will never repeat them!
That was courageous, for to to admit fault take responsibility and speak up speak out in Truth
As a former victim of abuse, I approve this story!! So many similarities to my own story!
Yes so true
Great interview. I am a man, who is following reports of abuse in the church and very concerned about it. I also share Naghmeh’s concerns about celebrity culture in the church.
I have left a comment on Graham's FB wall letting him know in no uncertain terms that I will not support him or any of his ministries until he publicly repents of falsely accusing a violently abused wife and using the kids as a pawn to guilt-trip the victim. Franklin Graham has no business being in any position of "counseling" so long as he equates the victim with the abuser and has a higher level of expectation for the victim to solve the abuser's rage than the abuser!! How dare he!! I am so angry with his dismissive, arrogant attitude toward a victim of violent spousal abuse! His disdain for Nagmeh is just shocking to hear. I encourage others to get on his wall and let him know he needs to repent!!
You’re so right! Just because Franklin is a Graham, there was no need to give advice against an abused wife. Judge fairly, brother Franklin!
I think I will stand in unsion actually I dont think I will
Typo I actually will stand in
Unbelievable!
I left a comment which I’m assuming will be deleted. So disappointed in Franklin Graham, and Jay Sekulow ! Shame on them!!!
I applaud the strength of Naghmeh. I remember the highs of rooting for Saeed's release followed by the low of shock and disappointment after seeing the story of Saeed's domestic abuse. I was appalled and outraged that the woman who fought so hard for her husband would be treated this way by him. After seeing her labor so hard for Saeed's release, it was always a ridiculous notion to me that she would suddenly make all this up from thin air to throw her marriage away. The last I heard in public of this ordeal was that Franklin Graham was attempting to mediate reconciliation. Then no update came after that. The story vanished from the media, and it was obvious then that BAD PR played a role in the story going mute. And in the years that followed, Naghmeh and Saeed would come to my mind. "I wonder what became of them" I would think.
I respect the great good Franklin has done, but with this mindset towards a wife who endured HORRIFIC abuse, he needs to acknowledge that this is a beyond-gross blind spot he and other men in the church have and that it must be confronted and rectified. Meanwhile, Anne Graham Lotz's actions are in keeping with the amazing woman she seems to be.
As Christians, we really should hold a more realistic view of the world than anyone, understanding that sometimes legitimate evil is done to people who are evil themselves. In this case it's Iran's evil against Saeed, who himself committed evil against his own family. Sometimes the underdog we root for turns out to be a villain himself. And that should have been the public message in this case - that we accept this disappointing reality but also that our fight for the persecuted church is not in vain and is not to be deterred. Christians should be sophisticated enough to parse and see the whole complicated picture for what it is......instead of turning the truth-tellers into villains to salvage the hero images in our minds.
I pray that Saeed is delivered from his own evil ways. I pray God's continued blessings over Naghmeh and her children.
In Jesus sacrificial conquering name. Amen
@@susannahwhite7561 "Jesus Created Hell", let it sink for a minute.
So we'll said. Thank you.
Amen
@@olio9276Hell is not created. It is the by-product of angelic and human sin-fallen wills.
Quote of the meeting. Bob, "You don't know what you don't know." That is it in a nutshell. I have been a Pastor for 31 years, and although we never put up with abuse, I still had/have a lot to learn.
Thank you for your work Julie and thank you Naghmeh for sharing your personal story.
If Saeed confessed things to Franklin Graham, Graham should looked Saeed in the eye and said something like "Saeed, you need to confess that publicly." That would have been the right way to handle it, not allowing things that should be out in the open to be buried.
I do understand what Nagmeh went through all too well, an Iranian-American woman, as a Christian woman, and as a woman who was in an abusive marriage. What we see in the body is sometimes so far apart from what was preached by Jesus. Julie, you are a wonderful presenter. I was more shocked that Franklin Graham’s private plane trips cost $30,000!
Franklin makes almost $1.5 Million from 2 full-time jobs simultaneously! Over $700,000 from the charity charade. The private jets and all other expenses are extra, and not from his money. The evil spirit is inspiring Christians to pay him more, while the streets are full of homeless families and people are dying from hunger or lack of medical support.
@@olio9276 it is absolutely sickening and shameful.
Maybe it’s the pilot and the permit to fly it that cost that much
@@onewotldgovernmentonlywhen9044plus the massive amount of fuel they use. Probably had to pay the counselors and others a pretty penny to go with him. It's all about profit for these people! Including Franklin Graham!
Thanks to both of you brave and honest women and thanks so much Julie for your exemplary journalistic thoroughness and integrity.
I am so thankful Naghmeh and her children have been freed from the abuse! Praise the Lord!
I was very shocked and saddened to see Liberty University, David Nasser, and Christianity Today offer platforms to her abuser after his abuse was made public. Also, the continued support from Franklin Graham, and Jay Sekulow of ACLJ and others for the abuser is heartbreaking. The fact that the court saw enough evidence of abuse and issued a Protective Order against the abuser for Naghmeh and the children's protection should have been enough for them to stop supporting the abuser and direct their support and compassion toward Naghmeh and the children. Sadly, this is too common of a reaction from the church. I am thankful Naghmeh and the children found a safe church and have the support they need to heal and thrive. Praise God!
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Exactly. It makes me so angry!
Part of the problem is that the abuser is so charming in public, then the mask comes off once they're in a safe place to abuse. I've know wives that their husbands were fawned over by other women as "Such a wonderful man and outstanding husband! Look at how he cares for all of us!" Meanwhile the wife (or husband in some cases) and kids get the scraps of attention or emotional/spiritual/mental/sexual/physical abuse.
She is isolated from others, and has no close friends by design. That way the secret is safe. She is dying inside and the children grow up thinking this is normal to repeat the cycle in their own homes.
I would highly suggest anyone who is puzzled by this behavior to watch the movie Gaslight with Ingred Bergman It was made in 1944. Gaslighting, is a reference to someone telling you what you see isn't real is where this word came from.
This does not by any means suggest that there aren't other reasons for such behavior, but it certainly was an eye opener for me.
@@alycewich4472 most abusers wear masks. I know exactly what I am talking about. They are likable and deceiving.
@@GloryToTheHighestyes tis true!
"God hates Divorce".
God knows divorce is hard and hurts more than just the husband and wife....BUT, God cares MORE about individuals than he does an institution of marriage. ❤
So beautifully put! He truly does care about the individuals!
God Himself got divorced lol. He saw fit for Himself to cut ties with Israel and Judea and in the NT Jesus allows divorce.
I AGREE..& GOD hates more when it's not his will that one gets married with someone that doesn't come from him...
God also hates abuse! This woman was strong and I’m glad she had her parents’ support. Graham seems to be coming from a misguided old-school train of thought. My guess is that Graham had good intentions. (I say this because he’s not the only one in the Christian world who thinks this way.) Also, this woman’s husband was probably manipulating Graham and not telling him the truth about what was happening in the marriage!!! So, that could be a very big factor. At any rate, not Franklin Graham’s best moment.
Thank you Julie for reporting this interview. It takes immense courage to first FACE the truth for what it is, then to ACCEPT the truth, then to SPEAK the truth and above all to STAND for truth. Naghmeh you are God's instrument. As an abuse survivor, I so relate to your story.
This was a fantastic interview! Thank you for sharing your story.
Love you so much, Naghmeh. Thanks for expressing your feelings toward “ministry” and no longer idolizing those in ministry. I’m so thankful for your example and for the strength God has given you.
It was striking to me how FG kept pushing the idea of how Naghmeh would destroy her children if she didn't go to marital counseling and reconcile! The amount of times he mentioned her children felt like he was really picking the thing that could pull on her heartstrings the most.
Manipulation 😢
I pray he repents and apologizes/makes restitution to Naghmeh, but I won’t hold my breath. I consider him a wolf in sheep’s clothing and a fame and money-grubbing charlatan.
Divorce is hard on children but living in an abusive environment will create greater trauma for those children. She did the right thing for herself and her children.
A male sanctuary of buddies.
I wander what Billy Graham would have said to his bum son FG!
I love how he tells her they don't need abuse counseling because he'd been in prison so she hadn't been abused. Forget about the fact that the only reason he wasn't abusing her was that he was in prison.
where did you see that he said they don't need abuse counseling?
@@EveLovesGod several times in the video, Franklin Graham advocated for marriage counseling where both of them be present instead of him having personal counseling about his abuse, which is what she wanted.
@@lydialutz I know what's why I don't understand how they can think differently
He also gave her verbal abuse
When Franklin says it's an easy fix, it tells me he just wants to slap a bandaid on it and call it a day. Abuse is never an easy fix because most abusers have an ingrained belief that they are entitled.
God bless Pastor Bob Caldwell
I supported her and prayed with our church for her husband's release, and feel betrayed by those well-known Christian leaders for what they did to her. I knew nothing about Pastor Saeed's abuse as the reason for Nagmeh's divorce from said until recently, but I remember when Pastor Saeed's was released that something was odd. His release was surely a victory for the Christian community who knew about his situation, but the cover up of his abuse by Jay Sekulow and Franklin Graham is unconscionable and disgraceful.
There are ministers who believe that you can’t save a marriage if the couple is not living together. They don’t take into account that some people are married to emotionally ill people. There are victims that need to be protected not judged.
That is so dangerous! Not every marriage or every person is safe! Shame on them for not using discernment and common sense!
Absolutely horrific. How these people can call themselves followers of Christ is literally beyond me. Franklin Graham is adding more abuse on top of what she experienced. He will answer to the Lord... Prayers for this precious sister and her family🙏🏽
He will not only answer to the Lord then! He will answer to me this very minute! Sadly the man and the Ministry, whom I have supported generously for many years, has finally totally uncovered what I could see many years ago in his Prayer tour to each state in America. I told my wife back then when he came to Vermont that this was more about image than true Intercession and repentance. The need back then as it is today was for repentance in the church, and our leaders still refuse to lead the church in repentance. He is shut off… That is to say he was shut off as I began to listen to part one of this testimony I told my wife automatic payments must be shut down immediately until we pray and Wait for his repentant response
@@PaulBurdo It’s quite sobering to realize the true character of these leaders. Billy had a heart for the lost. Franklin is an entitled political agitator. He likes his life in luxury. Above all, he needs to preserve that. I have stopped to contribute to either organisation until they have new Godly leaders.
Franklin's sisters said that 'Franklin doesn't understand", So go ahead, pick up a BIG stone and throw it as hard as you can at Franklin, Betty.
@@baileyboy7567 Franklin is, unfortunately, an entitled rich boy. Who among us can collect two huge full-time salaries. And, you bet, he does not pay for his private plane flights and other perks from those salaries. You and me pay for them from our tithes! Nothing authentic about Franklin. He also took the believers on a wrong path to follow the golden-calf Trump. No discernment whatsoever.
Women are not to be beat on. For any Christian leader to minimize on any level what women go through. When will Christian leaders call men into account, and have to go into rehabilitation for their behavior. We are not responsible for man’s abhorrent behavior. It is not a women’s responsibility to keep a marriage together, behind a broken man that won’t get help. The trauma that children have to witness their own mother being abused.The Bible clearly states that man is the head of his household and will be accountable to God for how he treats his wife.
The response from the church is horrendous. This is why women don’t come forward.😢
Did you miss the advocacy of Naghmeh's pastor? Sadly, the tendency these days is to paint the whole due to the actions of some, whether it is pastors, church members or even law enforcement or ignore the good works of those who do engage in the righteousness God expects.
@@juliadcock3071 she was not honest and upfront with leaders at the beginning of sharing her husbands story. She didn’t reveal issues until after she begged for help from them and then at the last minute said oh wait he is abusive. It was confusing to those helping and blindsided them so, of course there were questions by those trying to help. Not unreasonable. Also, this happened years ago. Where was Julie Roys then???
@@juliadcock3071 1 Pastor vs Graham and "An Army" of supporters of the abuser.
"Jesus Created Hell" let this sink for a minute, then ask yourself what would you expect from its followers?
@@olio9276GOD created hell for satan & his fallen angels...not for people of GOD...t & those that go there it's bc they choose to continue to do EVIL..
Praise God for guiding and protecting this sweet Sister! Thank you for sharing this!! ♥️💕♥️💕
This "husband" and "pastor" Franklin make me sick, honestly.... this issue is such a horrific nightmare for MANY (I have experienced this) and the church is woefully uneducated as well as complicit in so much marital abuse. God is bringing it ALL out into the light!!! Praise God!!! Thank you Roy Report!!! God bless you and your ministry!!!♥️♥️♥️
So glad this showed up in my feed. I have Saeeds name and your family in my Bible from when I would beg God to move on his behalf. I was so upset when I learned of the abuse you endured. Im very thankful for your testimony and courage!❤
Change begins with truth and integrity and you both nailed it. The one who needs counselling is Franklin Graham. He's twisted and corrupted and needs prayer for change of heart and spirit. Thank you both for leading the way for positive change for women in the church. ❤️
Nagmeh, I'm so sorry. My abuse wasn't documented. I'm so angry how "Christian leaders" have treated you. I went to multiple pastors for years for help & was brushed away. Finally God used a new church & therapist to extricate me from denial. You are a beautiful strong woman.
Franklin Graham kept saying, "I'm not a marriage counselor." I think that's pretty apparent. But then he kept dispensing marriage advice! LOL at Anne Lotz's reaction. "Franklin never listens."
Franklin can't fix himself must less anyone else. Our heart has to be changed by the work of the Holy Spirit.
Yes! I don't understand why this is rocket science for what is called a "spiritual leader".
Her husband got a huge break by even getting her initial grace and mercy to get him out. He deserves to have been held there forever.
As horrified as I am by Saeed’s abuse, I’m glad the Lord does not repay us according to what our sins deserve, but shows us grace and kindness that we may be brought to repentance.
@@lornadoone8887It wld be wonderful to know what happened to Pastor Saaeed? Did he ever truly confess and repent? Did he get help and deliverance with his abusive behavior and tendencies?
What happened to Nagmeh and the children? It wld be wonderful to know and have a follow-up! I hope she has received proper help, and healing from trauma and PTSD!🙏🏻I don’t believe for the most part that the church knows how to honestly deal w/ domestic violence, esp when it involves these cultures where it’s engrained in the way they have traditionally treated women, even if they claim to be Christian! Look at the way Saeed’s family / father-in-law treated Naghmeh when she was stuck in Iran and had her passport taken away and cld not leave back to the US w/out her husbands permission! Even being a US CITIZEN! It appears that Saeed never had a real and COMPLETE CONVERSION, as he still retained a great amount of his violent and abusive culture toward women/his wife, even after being converted to Christ! He is worse than an Infedel! I hope and pray she is happy and Trauma Free! And I hope he has taken responsibility and has repented and asked God and Nagmeh for forgiveness!🙏🏻🙏🏻
It wld be wonderful if they were truly reconciled! And Happy! ♥️
@@lornadoone8887. Beautifully said. I’ve noted those words in many places in the Bible. “His kindness leads us to repentance.” SOOOO different the world’s view of wagging fingers & wagging tongues. The Lord Jesus is NOT into “karma.” 🕊️🙏🙌🏼
GOD also says...YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW..
15:11 there's so much abuse and infidelity are alive and rampant in Christian ministry.
My heart hurts for you, after all that you had been through with your husband, and then you had to endure spiritual abuse from Franklin Graham. You are truly a precious sister.
After my abusive ex's failed attempt to kill me, the associate pastor said the three of us just need to sit down together and chat. I asked him what part of this man wants me dead he did not understand?
Outrageous
Crazy
He abusive ex-husband killed my son in the womb. To this day no one believes me. But I know the truth and I realized that I had to run or he would kill me and my other children too. I was floored by nearly every 'believer' that I know turning against me. I know now that the church (that includes my ex and my missionary parents) is rotten to the core. How could a grandparent tell me in all sincerity that it would be better for me and my kids to die at my exs hands than to divorce. I think they've never met the Jesus who cared for the least of these.
@@nuyabeez I am so glad you and your children escaped him. I can't begin to understand the thinking of these people who give the abuser a pass and vilify the victims thinking that is righteous. Can these people not read that the marriage includes the husband treating his wife the way Christ loves and cares for the church? Jesus sacrificed himself for the church/his bride he loves so much. Jesus doesn't kick, beat, abuse, threaten, torture mentally, physically and emotionally. He cherishes and protects. All these people have cut things like this showing how a man should act out of their Bibles. They don't even stop to think about the damnation that would be on that man's soul for murdering someone. Do these people honestly think that if Jesus were standing there he would say.... sure, why not stay and chance risking your life and the lives of your children. It's no big deal lady. What's your problem? .... You know he wouldn't! He would get all of you safe. He might make one of those whips for him once he got all of you safe. Jesus didn't tolerate abuse. I would question their relationship with God if this is how they see things.
The "till death do you part" section isn't supposed mean he gets to cause that to be the case.
God bless you and your children. I will be praying for you, including that God will surround you with loving, supportive people! ❤🙏❤ 🌹
Not even close to common sense!!!!!
Hearing the voice of Franklin Graham is like hearing the voice of Mark Driscoll, Mike Bickle, or Bob Jones. Their fingerprint is in their voice and it is triggering like hearing the voice of a liar.
That is beautifully spoken! Amen!
I am married to a narcissist sociopath. I was determined to NEVER separate from him. It was complicated and took years of prayer. I spent days in prayer with the Lord saying to me that I was actually my husbands enabler. I am now informally separated. That is what brought about change in him.
This comment is a year old, but I truly pray you're free. Your story is similar to mine. I even tried to informally separate so my spouse would change. It didnt work. I NEVER thought I'd divorce. I was committed to just being miserable if need be to save my marriage. It wasn't until years after being divorced that I began to heal from the nightmare of being in a marriage like you describe.
The lord talked to you? Huh…verbally? Or did you just listen to your own thoughts?
So another thing that comes to mind is the fact that Franklin Graham was saying that Saeed was a changed man.
This is where things often get complicated in the Christian realm. For someone to be so angry and abusive means there are a lot of psychological and emotional issues in that persons life. Yes God can change your life but also there’s a need to unearth the sources of why someone is that way and they have to deal with it and that is a long-term process not an overnight decision.
Mental health is often not addressed appropriately in the Christian realm. I was counseling a couple once where a leader in our church was advising a husband who beat his wife and children and was a very angry and aggressive person. I kept telling them he needs to see a professional counselor but they insisted that if they thought that was needed then they would counsel them to do that.
Pastors are not psychologists. Pastors tend to wear a lot of hats where they’re not professionals. You see this today dealing with the pandemic. Pastors are Shepherds who teach the word of God and try to counsel according to the word of God but they’re not the arbiters of every subject matter and often they act like it. I say that as a minister myself.
I see some samples of this in the engagement with Franklin Graham.
where did he say he was a changed man?
@@EveLovesGod He didn’t. Franklin claimed he was.
@@EveLovesGod I don’t recall the exact spot. Tried looking for it. May have been part one.
@BB_Ministry God bless you, sir!! I wish more ministers saw all of this the way you do! ❤
@@starlingswallow Me too. Too much pride in the pulpit.
Thank you for this. I read Nagmeh's book I Didn't Survive. I first heard of the story on Spiritual Sounding Board in 2015 when it started coming out. The reports seemed conflicting, and my prayer in such situations is "God, You know the truth. Please work in all lives affected. I claim that we will know the truth and the truth will set us free"(John 8:32) And in time, that's what happened. I'm glad I was able to do even a small part to support Nagmeh by buying the book. Highly recommended
I remember this case so very well. I heard Naghmeh talk on many Christian shows. She sincerely wanted Saheed to return to her and her family. She spoke beautifully about Saheed. Everyone believed her, including Graham I am sure. When the abuse was leaked, I was completely shocked. I didn’t know whether to believe her.. just because I had totally believed her for all of those past years! I believed that Saheed was a Godly man.. wonderful husband and Christian.. as she had said for years. So yes.. I was suspicious at first of her. I now believe her… but she must understand why there was suspicion of her change of testimony by Graham and others who had followed her closely and how Grahaam would want to help them with reconciliation. Naively, he felt both of you could work on reconciliation.. as I am sure he didn’t have all of the details
You didn't understand her situation because you are not familiar enough with human nature. Christians are so naive. They think that a man of God cannot commit huge sins and so whenever someone actually points out that a man of God has committed a great sin, Christians call them liars. Christians compound that person's grief and make their lives miserable. Franklin Graham is complicit in this, based on his own words. Naive is not the appropriate word for it. He obviously didn't want a PR scandal tarnishing his foundation's good name. It was about his own pride. And he tried to manipulate this woman to keep from looking bad. If Christians would stop coddling these people and glossing over their behavior it wouldn't be so common. But rather than educating themselves on human behavior, Christians keep acting like their heroes are perfect and anyone who questions that should be ridiculed. STOP IT.
@Julie Roys, please continue the great work!
My thoughts, I think all Christian leaders need to have training in abuse. Some are so focused on keeping the couple married no matter what, without a full understanding of deeper issues. In some families, the abuse is by the wife, some physical but a lot if it is more subtle like, withholding intimacy to manipulate husband, giving the silent treatment, running up bills for selfish spending.
I agree and should be referring to qualified professionals if they lack that training.
That’s a Narcissistic abuser
So true, but isn't easy to always accuse the wife of subtle abuse? How about obvious abuse? Punching the spouse in the faces then threatening to kill her? Which is actually the illegal abuse? Which abuse can lead to jail time?
Perhaps if those who love Christ will follow scripture:
Ephesians 5
25 "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might [g]sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body, [h]of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband."
Perhaps submission would be a joy and not torture! But so many times we want submission without uplifting, protecting. and loving our wives!
@@deb9784 Over 25 years ago I was in a women's Bible study where this entire passage was read and every single womqn in that group of 15-20 women said they would GLADLY submit to such a husband. But several church leaders, including the deacons. pastors and "godly Christian men" forget the first part of this passage to focus on the last part of letting the wife see that she respects her husband.
I've known women who have been afraid to speak about the abuse their husbands commit against them for fear they will experience the rejection Naghmeh went through and is still going through. We need to have safe places for women to speak truth about whatever is going on behind closed doors with people who listen to them and stand in their corner when denial rears it's ugly head.
As an aside to Franklin Graham, he did start the Alaskan retreats for families suffering from PTSD, but as one of the tapes said, he's not a counselor and he doesn't want to be a counselor. So what is happening in Alaska is because he has qualified counselors on site to deal with the PTSD and other issues. But as a lot of us know it takes way more than a weekend/week or even a year for healing to happen. I loved what Anne Graham Lotz said, "He doesn't listen." Spoken like a sister who knows her brother well.
Julie Roys, the ONLY reason I clicked on this video and the previous one was because I was one of the women who prayed for Saeed and Maghmeh when he was imprisoned. I was overjoyed knowing that my prayers combined with thousands or maybe millions of others doing the same, God moved to release Saeed and bring him to the US to reunite with his family. And once he returned, they seemed to have dropped off the face of the planet. So I was curious as to what had happened.
Thank you for this wakeup call about abuse in the church. I'm going to speak to my pastor this next weekend to see what is in place to address this issue. (I also had prayed for Ravi Zacharas and his ministry before his death and the ugly actions he had done became well known. and was crushed with the revelation of his manipulation of others.) Naghmah is correct, there are too many wolves in shepherds' clothing.
I've spoken to my pastor about some of this as it makes sense for the evil one to attack the shepherd and have the sheep scatter. He has several men of integrity surrounding him to help him avoid the trappings of power and influence. He also knows that if I sense anything untoward happening I will call him out on it. (It helps that I'm old enough to be his grandma and that I have been part of this church since almost the beginning.)
They need to have a heart. Any normal person would never act like a stone.
Yes!!! No more idols! Please help us find ways to stand up for these women! I'm so frustrated with the two faced church leaders.
I am in awe of Naghmeh! What a brilliant, Godly woman. I want to wish her happiness and fulfilment. She deserves the best! (I also love the paint colour of her wall. Got to find that shade!)
I agree - I would love to know what that paint color is! ❤️
Hey Franklin, the bible also says that husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the church. I don't remember reading anywhere in the bible where wives are to be a punching bag for their husbands.
He never said that he wanted her to be a punching bag for her husband, he believed that the marriage could be fixed easily and I believe he underestimated how severe the abuse was.
@@Nameless-pt6ojTo put it mildly. Frankly, I believe he knew better, but to deal with the situation in a truly just way would have tarnished his image and put a dent in contributions to his “ministry.”
Rev. Graham stated that a man leaves his mother and father and cleaves to his wife, therefore Naghmeh needed to separate from her parents in order to work on the marriage. However, when Saeed arrived in Boise, his own mother and father were with him. Is this not a glaring contradiction?
Thank you Naghmeh and Julie for this riveting and disappointing two part conversation. I am reminded of a quote by Mahatma Gandhi, "The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members". I am convinced that the true measure of our Christianity, as a church, is in how we treat our most vulnerable, defenseless and downtrodden members. Seems clear to me who Jesus identifies with (Matthew 25:31-46).
Gandhi is a Godless hypocrite like Saeed who abused his wife even on her deathbed. Shame on you that you should fall for empty words of men!
Amen! Persecution weeds out the wolves! Very well said, sisters. May God weed them out here in the U.S. by any means necessary.
Some years ago, at a conference, during "any questions"? I asked why the needs of women in marriage is hardly mentioned, rather, women are often put down. Latter my pastor called me aside. I thought he was going to rebuke me. But, he said, "Because we (men) are all guilty." I respected him for that admission. However, our men of God should waked up, for God will surely judge them for being abusive, and for being quiet about the abuse of women and children - the weaker vessels.
I've ministered to several abused women. Sadly many of them were told to reconcile or not anger their husbands who beat them. I understand God takes divorce seriously, but it should never be used as a tether to keep a spouse in an abusive environment. I've ministred to women who's husband cheated and still could minister in churches while the woman shunned. Just sad that Christiantiy can have some misogynistic tendencies where women feel compelled to stay silent.
its not the fault of Christianity! it is the fault of people who refuse to follow the word of God where He says that He is the defender of the oppressed and the widow and that is what we need to be as well to the defend the oppressed and to not defend the oppressor but to judge them.
@@777houses9 The biblical context of divorce is grossly over legalistic in most church systems. As if it’s the unpardonable sin, not matter the situation. This simply isn’t true. There are situations where divorce can occur. In fact in the NT Jesus actually admits Moses allowed divorce.
The Bible can have some misogynistic interpretations that lead believers to think because man is structured as head that means women follow. And Paul’s words about women being silent provide further fuel for these “men” to have power over woman. All of this is awful.
This is what happens in a male driven culture like America and people not reading the Bible holistically over select verses to enforce their rules.
Absolutely unacceptable 👎& truly ungodly & even criminal. My prayers are absolutely for all these abused captives, the brokenhearted to be free & rest in Yeshua Jesus and HIS great healing & wholeness.
Listening to this helps me come to terms with what happened in my marriage. Thank you Naghmeh for sharing your story. It is amazing to me that Franklin Grahams nephew, Boz has a ministry to those suffering abuse. Gods Response to Abuse in the Christian Environment (G.R.A.C.E.) has been a real blessing to me. I guess Franklin is unaware of that ministry.
Naghmeh has humility and is a light to others in dark places. Beauty for ashes comes to mind.
I went through similar, it was only emotional abuse, which is just as bad. It could have become violent, cuz he swung at me behind my back. I escaped eventually, he and the pastor talked me into coming back. He pretended to be better and then I slowly began to see his behaviors coming back, the same reason I had left him the first time. Since I left I have read a lot now and I know now he is very sick and I was not going back. I don't blame her for not going back. They are not listening to her! THAT is the problem. She was in the hospital because of being beaten. Her husband was an abusive man and she had every right not to stay in that. Franklin is a jerk. All these pastors who do not help the women when they are abused.
I remember hearing multiple interviews with her while he was in prison and then I heard she released a statement saying he had been verbally, physically, and sexually abusive before and while he was in prison. That was a bit confusing and then I didn’t hear too much about this after he was released. This definitely fills in a few more details.
God bless this woman. I think she is right. She's come through something so traumatizing with her sanity intact.
I have no doubt that Saaed abused her. Franklin Graham has a lot to learn about abuse. He has no Idea. And he used his tone of voice to talk over Nagmeh to try to get her to do what he feels is right. wow!
Our achilles heel in religious communities (I was Evangelical, am now Orthodox Christian) is that too often we value the appearance of righteousness over the reality and act accordingly. Such hollow “faith” produces rotten fruit indeed! There’s a reason Jesus saved His harshest censure for the hypocritical religious leaders in His own tradition. Those “Woe to you” statements in the Gospels are what the Franklin Grahams of this world will hear from Christ some day if they don’t change their ways. Lotz saying Franklin “was not a good listener” was a gross understatement. I’m glad she had enough confidence in her own discernment to counsel Naghmeh more wisely than her brother.
Why was Franklin so urgent about fixing this marriage? I believe he had selfish reasons.
Five years ago I found out my best friends husband was abusing his daughter. It tore our church apart and I was shocked at how many people rushed to the abusers side and neglected the victim. She ended up taking her life. So eye opening.
Devastating. I’m so sorry to hear that 😥
So sorry to hear this 😢❤️
I'm so sorry. I've witnessed some mishandlings also and some issues just aren't for the church to handle. We should be supportive of our brothers and sisters in other ways but do so biblically. You can even be supportive of an offender while still holding them accountable.
That child's blood is on all their hands! I'm heartbroken for this young girl who's no longer with us 😢❤
Church is becoming a dirty word.....
Home churches are where it's AT!
Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry!!!! This is horrible....😢 How is her mom doing now? Where is the dad? Was he ever convicted?
I quit giving anything to Franklin Graham a long time ago, and I don't regret this decision.
Franklin saw the Saeed situation as a big money maker for himself and an ego boost of being the man who saved Saeed’s family. The money he gave Naghmay was just an investment to bigger future returns. Naghmay blew up his book and movie deals with her revelation of abuse. He invested a lot of time and money and he gained nothing from her speaking the truth.
I hope one day he repents for his greed and recklessness.🙏🏼✝️🙏🏼
This is the best representation of the abuse cycle and the best way to fight it and keep women safe.
The unsung hero is Naghmeh's pastor. What a stand up guy. He really read the room and Franklin Graham is a bully. Why was he so invested in their marriage and hell bent on getting his way?
That was really profound, your comment about the wolves. In persecuted countries, there aren't many wolves. Here, I wonder if they know they are a wolf? They need to REPENT and TURN to Jesus!
Wolves never repent . . . only lost sheep repent.
A lot of people don't understand how complex abuse is..and they fail to stand with the victim when they finally speak out. As far as I've seen. Almost none of the victims have been wrong.. but there is a gross under reporting of the extent of the abuse.
We're with you Nagmeh.. our prayers are with you. You're really brave for speaking up against all this. Keep safe.
Naghmeh, what a beautiful inspiration you are. My heart breaks for the disgraceful bullying you received from those who claim to follow Christ. I would love to know how to support the gospel in Iran and the work you are doing
Nagmeh is a strong woman, and thank God she listened to her advisors and God. Franklin doesn't listen, it's clear. Let's just dismiss Franklin from the equation, he has tunnel vision. But Franklin's an entitled man, and he seems to act in the entitlement. But that doesn't make him a bad man, he's a blind man thinking he can bend things to his will.
Thank you for covering this story. Too much bad advice is given by ‘church people,’in Gods name when abuse occurs in pray that this changes🙏
Franklin is a great disappointment for us Christians.
Yes, he is! You can look at them and tell!
I have just UNfollowed Franklin Graham on Social Media. Yes, tear down the idols of Celebrity Pastors. Speak Your Truth, Naghmeh! And kudos to Ann Graham Lotz’
what part of what he said made you make that decision?
@@EveLovesGod - nothing of what he said. His actions and that (in my opinion) he misused funds from Samaritan’s Purse.
People need deliverance including baptist church
I would add to your remarks about FG that his relative described him as a poor listener. The whole time FG seemed to be in over his head and didn't know it. I don't understand all the heel dragging about abuse ciunseling.
TY LORD JESUS for this woman full of courage & full of your love...that has set an example for liberation from abusive marriages...👏👏👏👏❤
Wow…Franklin Graham conveniently left out 1/2 of what the Holy Spirit said to me concerning being married to an abuser. He was preparing me to be able to see the truth of what my husband was doing to me and our daughter and He showed me how to safely plan our escape to leave my abuser. God said to me “Yes, I hate divorce…
👉🏼but I hate abuse more.” Too bad FG doesn’t have the heart of God in him allowing zero discernment and wisdom. BTW I met Ann Graham Lot at a church I used to attend. She was gracious and kind to me.
I really don't understand this. I'm at a loss. I've been a Christian for over 40 years but even before that, as a boy, I was brought up to defend girls, number 1, as well as children being bullied. As an adult man, nothing has changed. Always protect females and stand by others being bullied. These men; what is wrong with them. Integrity? Godliness? Courage? Honesty? All sadly missing. To me, its abusing the abused. Shame on these people. Undoes any good these people have done. How can anyone trust these people.
Graham thinks more highly of himself than he ought. In fact, Graham is proud of his humility.
Very strong woman!!!!
I am just listening to this interview in March 2022. I have during the past week been reading your article on John MacArthur, GCC and Eileen Grey (Gray?) all I can say - we now have two cases of men who are supposed to be counselling couples to restore marriage (or at least overseeing the ministry to restore marriage) but absolutely refuse to listen to women and completely dismiss abuse of any kind. Shame on them. One thing I find thing deeply troubling in both of these cases - the refusal , the complete refusal to get the husband therapy for abuse!!! I am shocked. Regardless of what one may think about psychologists and such there are Christians who are devoted to God who do work in these areas. Thank you Julie for your work
I remember praying for his release, and after he was released..nothing??
I’m so happy to have run across the Roy’s report, to hear the actual truth behind this dramatic ordeal!!
It’s sad to think how Samaritans purse funds are being distributed! Annnnddd the true character of Franklin G!
Naghmeeh what a true hero ,
May Gods blessings be upon you & your children 💜💜💜
Naghmeh, I am sorry for thinking back then that you were deserting him. Please forgive me. God Bless you!
"Celebrity Leaders" very good word about that. All leaders are human beings, fallible and all. There's too much leadership idolotry in our faith. Much agreed on that point.
I have a gift of teaching, but I will not teach in church. It is far too dangerous for me psychologically. Also, in my experience, those who have been hurt by the church will not receive help from Christian counselors, whether professionally trained or not. The reluctance among Christians to understand what is happening in the church is very deep.
I need to add a couple of things. One is, thank you so much to Naghmeh and Julie. Then about Franklin Graham, he's one of those rare men who, speaking softly, can actually be quite bullying.
I agree with what you are saying but you don't need to teach in a church. You can always share your gift with those around you. ❤🙏🏽
@@em77775 *Smile* Now I can occasionally "teach" folks at the gym. I'm not strong, but I have good form & I know how a lot of the equipment works. Oh, my #1 rule is enjoy yourself. Have fun at the gym and you'll keep coming back.
Don't paint all teachers in Church and Christian counselors with the same brush. In my 65 years as a Christian woman, I have found both the good and the bad. Your opinion is not helpful. You cannot judge all by the mistakes of some. If you truly have the gift of teaching, the Holy Spirit will guide you to the right place to use your gifts!
@@Wanda4849 Wanda, I'm 73. You don't know what my opinions are. You don't know what my experiences have been. There are some great people in the church. There are some truly wicked people in church also. I have the right to be careful.
Fortunately, the leader in my church supported me when I told him about the control, manipulation and emotional, spiritual, and sexual abuse I suffered by my husband. It's interesting how I was a strong and well educated woman prior to getting married and felt sorry for women in 'abusive' marriages. I was unaware I was being beaten down until it got to the point where I felt like I was such a terrible person I was ready to leave because I thought my kids would be better off without me. A friend got me to to see a counselor (without my husband knowing0 and the counselor said I was suffering from "battered wife syndrome" even though my husband had never hit me. A lightbulb went off in my brain and it all made sense - the criticisms, the isolation from your own support groups, being the 'righteous" good old boy in public and at church. I realized he was the sick and broken one. Now, years later as I watch movies or hear stories like yours, I see parts of my own story and relate and understand. Thank you for sharing.
I am horrified about the sexual abuse in the church too. Men need to repent from their haughty physical abuse and emotional abuse. The men shouldn't be dressing their wives either! Stop being so contolling!!!
FG is a real piece of work. God bless Pastor Caldwell!
It's so sad that people don't believe the truth. Know the feeling. God is good and He strengthens us to keep going.
So if abuse doesn’t look a certain way, i.e. wife gets beaten everyday due to husbands drinking at night, then it’s not real abuse? I think Franklin has been put in the position by the Lord but he needs to learn that he needs to stay in his lane. He has strengths in the Lord but then has weaknesses, which is true to every human. But identify your weaknesses and open your mind to others that can help you learn more and realize that sometimes you don’t need to be the leading voice on every matter. Clearly you don’t know everything and your input on this matter is not helpful but more hurtful. Hurtful to Naghmeh in the fact that she is not being validated and hurtful to Saaed bc he is being validated in his sin and able to justify his way of thinking, which means he can still be deceived and won’t be able to come to terms with his sin. He has no reason if he is surrounded by yes men and that is where he is fueling his ego.
Franklin’s role is merely harmful…?…? “Harmful”, is not merely an understatement it completely misses the fact that he is, and has been for a long time ignoring his own deep rooted sin in the idolatry of “image”, while at the same time rejecting the very foundation of the gospel… Which is liberty… “It is for freedom that Christ to set you free, Therefore do not become slaves of men.“. And men who are not committed to the liberty of those who are under such unspeakable oppression are men who know not the gospel in their own hearts…Irregardless of how loud they proclaim it with their lips
@@PaulBurdoNailed it right there!
Well said!
Thankyou for your boldness to speak the truth...sadly many people in ministry have no idea how to deal w abuse. Thank God he brought a few safe people in your life to protect you and your children. Thankyou for your courage
Why would "famous", rich and world-powerful Franklin invest so much time and money trying to fix one couples marriage, especially one in which the wife has been beaten and horribly abused? The answer is that he was only protecting his own empire, and he threw God under the bus to do it, in this case!
Money, money, money! It is clearer as a bell. I have never ever ever ever liked him.
As a former victim of abuse, going to the church for help, being told that God hates divorce, I approve this message.
Thank you Naghmeh for your story. You are strong woman an example. Praying for you ,family and your ministry.
Thank you Pastor Bob Caldwell
SO POWERFUL
Thank you for speaking out about your personal abuse. I am thinking different about celebrity people. You're honest and brave and smart. God is with us
Who need him.
The textbook on abusive men is probably the book by Lundy Bancroft 'Why Does He Do That" ... " Inside the minds of angry and controlling men". It's in eye opener. Every pastor and counselor should read it.
I agree!!!
What a great interview!!!!
Wow, truly transformative information. Thank you so much, Julie and Naghmehm his is a big help in understanding how these things work and how to not be an obstacle to solutions.
Thank you Nagmeh!
What an incredible woman. Actually two incredible women, Naghemi and Julie. Naghemi is so wise and kept looking for the right voices and support to help her find her voice. I absolutely admire her taking time to think through whether she wants to make helping women a 'ministry' or not... With the involvement of finances. It speaks volumes to the corruption that happens the moment 'ministry' becomes something separate from secular... Dividing the holy and the secular...as if that's possible. It also speaks volumes to her own integrity, seeing the corruption of the celebrity and money making ministries like Franklin Graham's and the celebrity pastors that she's keen to advocate against. I think we can all support her in that by not listening to watching or giving to prop up these 'ministries'.
Good for her standing her ground
Franklin G response is horrible.
Disgusting
But Jay Sekulow's wasn't any better and l've supported him for years
Thank you for this topic , I am Christian and left very abusive marriage , in fact the Lord instructed me to leave . There is no excuse for abuse and it’s NEVER God’s will to stay in abuse .
I have taken 3 months off to reconfigure with the leading of the Holy Spirit how I go forward in this season of my life. I have seen so much bad stuff done in the name of Jesus and by his so-called church. I needed a break and to fix my gaze on Jesus. This story is so sad.
Lord, I pray for Julie to be steadfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord. Lord, I pray for Nagmeh and her kids - please help her to find green pastures in her life. Shepherd her, dear Jesus. Help her to find people who can disciple her. I pray that they would have the conviction to do right for all the various ones in her story.
How does a man who has been abused himself do that to a woman he’s supposed to love even at the cost of his life?