2022 Toyota GR 86: Keep it simple, stupid!
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- After a two year absence, MotoMan heads back to Monticello Motor Club in New York in this combo TECH & DESIGN REVIEW, FIRST DRIVE REVIEW and round of our famous #OptionsGame to drive the second generation of Toyota GR 86. After some time on the track with the 228 HP, flat four 2022 Toyota GR86, MotoMan learns torque is improved as well as some other bits around this Subaru/Toyota collaboration.
#Toyota #ToyotaGR86 #GR86 #GazooRacing
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The 0 to 60 figures are inverted. The manual is faster.
That's a first for a modern car...
The Japanese media tested an 5.85s of 0-100 (or 62 in miles) for the manual GR86.
@@OlJackBurton The automatic has longer gear ratios and a longer final drive on top of that. Thats why it's slower (that's also why it gets better fuel ecoonomy)
@@lateral-g8847 Fantasy. Golf GTI is faster, and that's 6.3.
@@anthonykelmann2431 watch Hagerty’s review of the GR86 for a comparison between those two cars and why the gr86 initially accelerates off the line faster
Glad there's a second version of this car. I for sure thought rear wheel drive naturally aspirated manuals were a thing of the past. Glad they're still chugging a long.
It seems like adding a sunroof would mean safety and interior space issues, not to mention added weight possibly.
Sunroof or moonroof increases the weight up top.
Miata RF is the answer for people who don't want a roof in the summer but want one in the winter. Just like Supra 2.0 is the answer for people who want a turbo and Nissan Z is the answer for people who want a v6. It's really a wonder that any of these machines exist and are made at a price that can be fit into a modest monthly budget.
Give me a f'ing break! All gen Integra GSR, Eclipse GSR, Civic Si, Golf Gti, BMW 2 series and many others have a god damn moonroof!
Pretty much any new car is a luxury for the rich. Or like many people your just stupid with your money and live your life on monthly payments.
miata rf is fugly
This car has plenty of power for many european mountainess regions where you can never get high speeds anyway. Has to be a blast here in Spain on its curvy , well paved mountain roads. No need for 400hp.. and for sure a Mustang 8cyl could never outpace this car on tighter , curvy roads
Tuners will oblige. Just keep it NA, please.
yes weight is the key here
Even though most tuner JDM cars were turbo lol?
@@GokuTheHusky isn’t hks working on a supercharger.
Just keep it NA? Why?? Yes, it's great to keep an affordable, fun, N/A base model.. But basically every other automaker offers both base models, as well as boosted, or bigger displacement options. From Mustangs and Camaros, to Camrys or Civics.. Basically EVERY other car model offers a more powerful trim.... Except the one that everyone has begged for a more powerful optional trim.
But of course, it's obvious why it has never, and will never happen (even though it's basically the same new 2.4 which is boosted in other models). Not because of cost, etc.. No, it's because the actual maker of this car, Subaru, will not have this plucky upstart usurping or outperforming it's flagship/halo car, the WRX....
I praise the folks at Toyota and Subaru who developed and offered this car. It has everything a driving enthusiast needs: RWD, 6MT, neutral balance, lighter weight, And they bring it in at a modest price by resisting the temptation to add complexities like forced induction, AWD, moonroof. I grew up with cars like this and I think they chose the right development path. 👍
It looks like a baby RC to me. Great review as always MotoMan!
Topher said Toyota/Gazoo Racing plans on selling aftermarket parts for this thing. Given the history of this being a tuner's dream, it makes sense from both a production and financial standpoint - there's definitely more profit in selling them the car and then the parts separate compared to selling them the tuned car from the onset.
40 G would put in the zone of the new Nissan Z (V6 turbo charged 400hp). The 'Z' would be a no brainer at that price point.
400Z would would 110% be marked up by stealerships. I guarantee it'll be even worse than it is with the type R. It will easily be over $50,000.
Not everyone wants 400hp...
This starts under $30k. And how much for the Z with LSD? It’s going to be over $45k. I don’t know why people keep comparing GR86 to nissan Z.
@@saiyan2525 You entirely missed my point, maybe because you weren't paying attention to the end of the video. At the end the presenter said Toyota should build a 40-45,000 version, with urbocharger and upgraded suspension etc. My point was, why would anyone get that theoretical 4 banger when the "Z" is out there. Hope that makes the point clear for you.
@@xFlared If the roll out of the Supra is anything to go by, the second year of on the market will see little or no mark up. Although chip shortage might affect this. So with a little patience one could avoid the huge mark-up. Also it's not a great idea the buy the first year production of any new car model. Although the innards of this vehicle is actually the Infiniti Q60 Red Sport, which would have been on the market a few years now.
you got the 0-60 times for manual and auto confused as the manual is faster
Absolutely despise sunroofs; more weight, less headspace, less security, unsafe in rollover, less body rigidity, higher priced car, expensive to repair, leaks, water channels rust internal passages in body, etc.
You nailed it 👏
Motorman where in NY are you from. Nice review, between this and the 400z today it’s a great day for we manual guys….
About the Wishlist turbo version for 40-45k: doesn’t that step on the toes of the Supra 2.0 too much? Great video as always.
Yes, but if I am being honest, it would be a FAR more balanced car.
The Supra’s days are numbered IMO. Nissans going to put the Supra 6ft under if the MSRP justifies it.
Would rather go for a supercharger, WAY more linear and no mushy turbo lag feel.
@@WonderingShadow Haha I doubt it will have performance of the Supra. Maybe more fun due to the 6 speed manual but faster? No way.
@@xXYannuschXx Every time I see people wishing for a Turbo I wince at the memories of turbo lag. Disconnects you from from the car. I’d much rather have a well tuned NA
Thanks MotoMan. Any word on a factory oil cooler? I assume that the front suspension still lacks adjustment for camber...
The original car looked good. Still looks good in my opinion.
But this new one is much, much better looking.
It is . . . and that is saying a lot because I was not a fan of the original design.
I think the beauty of this car is this…for the people who want a simple RWD light sport car it’s perfect but those who want a turbo there is a great after market which can help u with that I honestly think this a win win for everyone
I would definitely consider get it like the styling. It missing one option that I can't live without a roof😎🥺😄
Spot on on your wishlist as usual MM! As a ND Miata RF owner, I don’t think Toyota/Subaru did enough here to get me to defect from my beloved Miata, but they certainly look like they improved this car quite a bit over the previous generation. It just needs more low end torque from what I could tell when you were driving it. I think a turbo and stiffer springs would make this magical to drive. Looking forward to a follow up episode on your usual shoot road up in PV to see how it handles the canyon roads and imperfect pavement. Until then, Bis spater!
Kumo and I fully intend to punish a manual transmission version of one of these on our shoot road . . . that said, I am NOT cleaning out the black interior after he drives.
People who watch Motoman are the type of people who’d buy an S-class with a manual if it came with it 😅. Who the hell buys an auto 86?!
ROTFLMAO
I’ve recently thought about how thankful I’d be for an auto version if I had a physical disability that meant a manual wasn’t possible. Lots of people can still enjoy a fun car that way.
What’s wrong with auto?😂
@@BrendanEvan Of course, didn't think about it that way. Good point :) Probably also for people who only have an automatic driving license.
I did only because the MT wasn’t available, and a 86 is way more fun than my old daily even with the auto. With that being said as soon as I can get my hands on the MT I’m trading lmao
I’m Glad They Didn’t Turbocharge It! It Takes Away From The Immediacy Of The Acceleration! Every Car Should Not Have A Turbo! It’s Corny At This Point!🙄
Thats why a supercharger is a better choice as long as it is cooled
Would the new Supra still be relevant if a turbo 86 for under $45k existed?
When talking about price of a fancier version of the car, here's the key issue. There will be a threshold where it simply won't sell. These are not primary vehicles. They're secondary or tertiary cars. I'll give an example. The RX7, FD, the most loved one of them all, sold 68,000 units in 10 whole years. Why? Because it was expensive. Meanwhile, the RX8, the black sheep of the rotary heritage, sold 192,000 is less time. And it shared the market with the Miata at the same time which sold similarly. Despite more closely sharing the same market space as the Miata than the FD, the RX8 still significantly out sold the FD. Price is a BIG factor in determining if someone will by a "toy" car, be it one being added to their stable, or they are opting for it as a primary over a sedan, SUV, or other more practical choice. It has to be cheap enough to warrant the choice. For example, I DON'T own a new ND Miata specifically because I think it's priced too high. If it was $10k cheaper, I'd very likely own one right now. With just a few options, I'm sitting at $35k for a tiny toy car that can't hardly do anything but be a toy. It's stupidly expensive for what it is and for the material expense that's in it. The biggest vehicle Mazda makes, the CX-9, can be had for $35k too, and there's a lot more material and labor expense in that vehicle, plus a much more expensive turbo charged engine. There should be a $15k to $20k difference there, but that difference doesn't exist at all. And to a practical, logically thinking buyer, that's insane. Ford's big super duty trucks start at $35k too. I can buy a giant pickup with a big, turbo V8, tons of sheet metal, and I can pick a model that isn't their bread and butter high volume seller, and I'm still at a similar price point as a teeny, tiny, itsy, bitsy, little Miata. These kinds of cars need to be cheap, dirt cheap, because they have to fight against logic and every other vehicle on the market. And because they're toy cars, they have to do something else too. They have to fight against their own used market. New HAS to be worthwhile over used. This is especially true if you intend to mod. And when modding, you already have boosted options for the previous generation. You're competing against that choice too. Unfortunately, I see all these cars, the Miata, the FT86, and now the GR86 as too expensive of vehicles for their own good. I thought the exact same thing when the FT86 first debut. My first thought was "That's $10k too expensive." I can't help it. There's just so many things you can buy on the market, and you have to justify this thing against them. Price is and will always be a major driving factor. The FT86 and the GR86 is only competitive against its specific rivals, not against the market as a whole. A more expensive version will only make this worse.
The problem with the old car is that the seats were awful! The Supra fixes that, hopefully this car fixes that. I think the NA engine would be a tough sell for people at altitude, just like when they buy a Porsche GT car...... I think the styling on this new car is great, the exhaust note sounds great too! If I didnt have a 992 911 and needed/wanted a track car, I think this with a manual would be a great choice! It is a great modern day, Celica!
They DO offer a turbo. It's called the STI, or SUPRA....
Sti is literally dead even with the 86 in straight line speed lmao.
@@ak740_ sti is a way better car....
gr86 and supra makes sense one is the cheap enthusaist car another is a fast sport car
I actually disagree with the suggestion of more powerful version of this car, because of price alone.
$45K usd is WAYYYYY too much for a mild engine and suspension upgrade.
Net cost to the mfg on upgrading diffs, suspension, driveshafts, transmission and engine should leave that car in the mid-to-high 30s. $37-38K would be PLENTY for them to charge for that version, and that would be worth buying. Otherwise, no thanks, I'll take it as it is now, it's great.
Yes manual on a track, however daily Nirmal driving heck no with a manual. I drove a manual in my Mustang for the past 6 years. Not again. Love my automatic GR 86. THE 0 TO 60 MPH difference between manual and automatic is not enough to go with a manual. These are not selling any where close to under $30,000. The crooks dealerships are marked them up 5 grand for a base, tax, additional fees, not even close to $29,000
The manual trans is actually faster 0-60, not the auto. Also totally disagree about adding a turbo charger, part of the benefit to this car is its low weight with that naturally aspirated engine, and its relatively affordable price. If you add turbo you're driving that price up, and before you know it the car goes extinct because of that. Same thing with a sunroof, it adds weight/price to the car...don't want/need that here. Buy another car if those things matter to you.
GAZoo eight six needs to create a TRD edition supercharger and electric battery version gas saving. Also bring a High performance muscle edition of four hundred horse power.
Yeah, a turbo would probably improve the fuel economy ratings numbers, which is an advantage for government compliance. They could have put a 1.8L engine in then to keep the weight down. I'd really love to see a flat 6 in here: EZ30! Obviously that would never happen, but it would sound awesome, be oh so smooth, and deliver more power. It will be interesting to see where the pricing lands here in Canada when that is announced.
Couldn't get through the video without mentioning Porsche.... ;P
You can get a used cayman for nearly the same price. What schould I choose. A porsche 987 2,7 275hp the newer 718 or this one?
@@zrMysli well, I think the seats in the Cayman are 100x's more comfortable than the ones in this car...well the older version's were awful! Also, the cost to repair the Porsche will be 10X's as much as this new car. If you get a Boxster or Cayman at this car's price be prepared to spend some money, also you only need one oil change a year but they are a couple hundred bucks on a Cayman.....I doubt you'll get a 718 for 30k....especially with the shortages, Pretty much all porches are going for 20 -30% more than they should, right now.
@@tommy516 Yes, you are right. I think porsche is very overhyped und at the moment overpriced.
Now that I'm semi-retired, I'm considering getting back into some scca racing. I have to check one of these out. Considered a Veloster N but at my height and the size of the meteor on top of my shoulders, fitting in one with a helmet would be next to Impossible without some customization to the driver seat.
Great review. Seems like this car will be a great car. Hopefully it doesn't suffer from engine reliability issues.
Subaru engines struggle with reliability issues?
You forgot to flip the headrest backwards to get more room for the helmet. And you didn’t fly that airplane in the garage!
They wouldn’t sell any turbo ones at 40k when the Supra 4 banger is 42k
I don’t think a turbo would be $40k, maybe around 35G since this is a “budget” sports car
...TOYOTA ...JUST ANOTHER "OVER-PRICED-EV".... (THEY JUST DON'T GET IT!)
My brother is buying the auto and I'm buying the manual. Best of both worlds.
I’m surprised you drove an automatic but I guess if 80% of them are going over the curb is automatics it makes sense
Get a Miata if you want a sunroof.
you prepared poorly the subaru is lighter and has an aluminum roof and crossovers and in tests it does better times on the track better please prepare yourself a shame :)
What the.... Savagegeese, TheStraightGimmicks, etc. are all reviewing the same car (same color and everything) on the same day.
What gives?
Theres a content embargo, they all reviewed it weeks ago, but they cant release the video until today.
I liked the All-Trac reference because even though this takes it’s name from an old Corolla, it’s more related in spirit to the Celica for me.
Bingo:)
Late to the party. Somehow missed this vid. Terrific stuff.
Why are you in the auto, complaining about the slushbox? A rare miss.
Worst review of this car imo. Sunroof to ruin the low cog..🤦♂️
Who needs power when you’re racing on the downhill?
How did you not test the manual? BTW the manual 0 to 60 is 6.1. Not good.
What is confusing about a sunroof not being an option in this car, Subaru Toyota have gone to great efforts to lower the c/g in the car. That really is their primary focus of the car! Read the tea leaves.
Nothing confusing. They are leaving sales on the table and/or ceding business to Mazda. Subaru and/or Toyota could engineer a lift out glass panel that would have little impact on CG and make it an immensely more livable car.
The original point was a “sunroof” or “glass panel”. Either way adding nearly 10% of weight ( heavy glass and trim) to the highest point seems highly counterintuitive in this particular car. Trying not to beat this to death, BUT….. Maybe to your other point, just have an option of a brighter interior.
i personally have never use my sunroof, maybe bc i live in the northeast
Please do the new Acura NSX! Thanks 😊
Must be kidding reviewing an automatic
Sunroof? No, Toyota, please.
The manual is faster, not correct
Can Toyota Put The Supra On The 4 Series Platform Tho.. Because There’s NEVER Been A 2 Seat Supra! How Is The 86 More Grand Tourer Than The Supra? Or Bring The Celica Name For The 4 Cylinder & Supra On The In-line 6!
..WHY IS THE CAR UNDER A AIROPLANE?
The added power sounds like an awesome addition. Interesting they bored it out. Do you believe this was a better option than supercharging it from the factory?
Well, boring it out is a lot simpler than addding a supercharger (which I believe no other Toyota or Subaru vehicle has, so it'd have to be a one off=not very likely). The FA24 was already developed and out on the road by the time the GR86/new BRZ came out so modifying it to run NA was a lot simpler than throwing boost at the old FA20.
The new motor is supposed to be vastly superior to the older one (a lot of internal changes) so I can't wait to see what people will be able to do with those in terms of forced induction (Or even NA builds, I'd love to see 300HP out of this motor like they do with the K24 Honda engine)
@@filipprucnal If it’s anything like the change from the ND1 to ND2 Miata, then tuners are going to have problems. The ND2 ECU is almost impossible for tuners to crack. There for, there has been no Turbo option for the ND2 Miata as of yet. There has been some minor tuning options to wring out a little bit more power, but nothing like what’s available on the ND1 Miata. Hopefully the new Subaru engines don’t have that issue.
@@leeraymer166 Let's hope that's not the case. But if it is, what's stopping you from switching to a standalone ECU besides cost? Are modern cars systems so interconnected that you can't just yank it out and install an AEM or an EMU?
@@filipprucnal I haven’t seen an aftermarket option to do that yet. You also void your warranty with Mazda if you choose to do that. I would probably wait until I’m outside my warranty if I was to make a change like that.
@@filipprucnal you're forgetting there was a supercharged version of the Toyota MR2.
He never hit track + sport mode 😢😂
How well this sells will decide the future availability of affordable sports cars.
1,000,000%
The 0 to 60 figures are invertered
Toyota GR could offer a later turbocharged version that would increase power to perhaps 300 hp. They would have to offer it for no more than 5,000 dollars over the performance model which would then make it end up being around 37,000 to 38,000. No way can they sell for over 40,000.
Look how much performance you'll get from the upcoming Nissan Z for the same price.
The auto is for people who want a good looking car under $30k, who would prefer fuel economy to performance, who prefer a small car, and who prefer a Japanese car for the reliability reputation. That's a huge market segment and there is basically no alternative as a daily sports car. The manual is for driving dynamics nerds, like myself. It's for people who would catch air on their daily commute if they could. That's a much smaller segment but a more prestigious group for the manufacturer to have as fans. By holding both, Toyota and Subaru have the practicality card and the street cred card. By having more powerful cars in their lineups, they avoid any reproach for the low power nature of the car - a point missed by Mazda with their flagship Miata since the abandonment of the Rx7
Nice review on the GR 86 MotoMan but seeing you with that automatic was painful. Nice job Toyota and $30,000 not bad at all.
Subarus are practically everywhere not just Oregon, Vermont and Colorado....and a $40K turbo? That would be a 2023 Nissan Z
why is there paddles????
Are events like this staffed by Toyota employees, or a third party?
Both. The guy I mentioned in the episode, Rowdy, is a third party contractor and makes these events VERY productive for folks like us. Kudos to him and his team!
@@MotoManTV does it seem like a good career in the auto world? I live in NY, Long Island to be precise. Not many OEM type jobs around here, and the dealer world is...
The value for money is the best thing about this car , if they start adding fancy stuff like 4wd , turbos etc the price would go up in the territory that is already dominated by other cars .
It will be interesting to see what the new Z costs , that will decide it for many as if the price difference is not too big most will go for the almost double power v6 .
It’s a shame that Subaru didn’t make naturally aspirated 3liter flat 6 for this baby , that would have changed the car without drastically affecting the price .
If It’s Gonna Be Called All-Trac Then It Should Be Red! The WRX Version Should Be Blue With Gold Wheels..
Only way to get The turbo charged version is to buy and install the kit your self, they will not offer that .
There will be special edition with better suspension and brakes .
A sunroof adds a ton of weight and raises the center of gravity. It won’t ever happen and it shouldn’t.
40 years ago, I’d be all ga ga for this car. Now, not so much. It is good lookin and at the end of the video I saw one in a deep green color that would be my choice. Wonder if the WRX STi motor would fit in the 86 .
I love this title.
You're the only auto journalist who rants about to have moonroof. The auto makers usually offer it in their top tier models. They almost sell another one today if they could let sun shines thru...
I'm curious to see if you had a chance to chat with the Everyday Driver guys? They have a very different take on the wheel and tire package, as well as the steering.
So the new Nissan Z. 400hp and 40k base price. Seems Nissan has met the mid $40s and a turbo wish.
Why all reviews only testing the Toyota and not the Subaru?
Simple good yes but simple better = 3000lbs, 3 liters and 300 hp
I agree with more power and stiffer suspension. They would hit it on the nail to stuff the 4 popper turbo from the bmw. No ?
2022 Toyota GR 86 looks so good! It looks better than 2021 Hyundai Veloster N. But which one is more fun to drive? Veloster N has more horsepower at 275hp and tuned it right, but it's also priced at $33,320. So, which one is more worth getting?
I prefer the 86/BRZ RWD. sports coupes are really awesome to drive and the aftermarket will be much better with the 86 BRZ. You want more Power and a turbo? Might be wrong but I've heard of turbos for 2k pushing the engine to 290HP (without intercooler upraded clutch etc etc). You also can remap it to up to 400HP but then you seriously need an intercooler and other stuffs and it can cost up to 15Grands.
At the end its your decision :)
(Nice taste of cars though)
I'm a bit confused...the whole track drive was filmed in an automatic or manual at gear 2?
Its a handsome little fun car. I reckon It'll look the bees knees on a set of bronze Rays 37s & a center rectangular exhaust.
On a sidenote, why I do get the feeling those 18s are pilfered from the GR Yaris.
As for the Supra, I wasn't fan at first, but its been growing on me lately.
As always, excellent work M.
Too bad that cabin engine noise sounds like an early video game sound.
My question for yall, if you've driven both manual and auto and walked away with the auto, why? For those of you who chose manual, would a dual clutch have persuade to choose an auto?
Manual is cheap to fix, that's all for me.
Dual clutch is a fantastic thing if I'm have no limited budget.
I get claustrophobic just looking at the back seats
Don't worry, you pronounced Gunma perfectly!!
The fact that 80% of these cars are sold with autos reinforces my preconceived notion that this is a sports car for people who don't really care about sports cars.
Except if you look up the take rates this is actually way off. More than half chose manual.
Cant wait to get the automatic for my daily traffic jams.
The 2021 Miata is 5.8 and probably more fun to drive. It does cost a couple thousand more though.
The Miata is slower. It doesn`t matter what the factory sheet is saying: ruclips.net/video/QaR843im04A/видео.html
People could turbo it for prob less than 10k
It’s still under powered but better than it was.
He is all mixed up with the old and new 0-60 times.
why did you not drive the manual?
Fuel consumption of 19 -21 mpg?? That's pretty terrible... It's worse than my 718 Spyder.. with manual gearbox which has 414hp... Wish we had your US fuel prices.. Great review otherwise!
I doubt you get 20 mpg’s in the Spyder! 😀But you also have to remember a US gallon is less than an Imperial gallon.
@@TML34 I get 20-22 (US) MPG in my 2010 Cayman S PDK, 26-28 is easily doable on the highway. 30 if you drive like a granny.
Watched 3 different video on same car. One say 220 hp other say 230 hp and now 228. 😂
Specs in this episode came directly from Toyota's chief engineer.
I like it as n/a. No turbo, no supercharger. But, sunroof, yes.
volt yellow paint
Great review - subscribed
Definitely on my watch list.
I want one!
MotoMan comment at 5:39 😂
There should be a law against that:)
I daily drive 2017 86 automatic . 1. I have carpal tunnel syndrome 2. I live in a busy city (stop go , stop, stop, go ,stop go go stop)
Good upgrades!