BoJack Horseman Season 4 - BoJack? Is that you?
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- Bojack's mother, Beatrice, briefly recognizes BoJack again. Instead of berating her and being very mean to her like he was planning on doing, he decides to comfort her.
The only happy moment the two of them share is made up of lies. Bojack lying about where they're at, and Bea lying about how good the ice cream she never got to eat was.
Well, The Amazing World of Gumball's The Lie taught me that it's good to believe a lie when joy is hard to come by. As long as Beatrice can imagine the taste of ice cream well enough to help her sleep at night. April 10, 2020, 8:57pm
There is an argument that even though we have reasons to sympathise with her now. She still emotional/mentally ruined Bojack. She didn't have to do what she did but she still did. Maybe a bit of false hope/happiness is all she deserves.
I like her character as a character. Not as a person.
Shine Thief Same here. It feels like it’s really big of BoJack that he did this. I can’t help but wonder if he had a change of heart about wanting to say a final “Fuck You” like he planned because he cared, or because the woman he was seeing was too far removed from the one who raised him. He may have left her there, but he let her imagine she was surrounded by people she loved.
The lie of Beatrice isn't how the ice cream taste, it's playing senile and acting like she can see everything that Bojack is telling her. That's why she said "delicious" with difficulty because she couldn't continue to convince herself at this point
Vincent Deschatelets do you think she’s faking her whole illness?
This one of Bojack's finest moments. He thought he knew what he wanted, to tell her "Fuck you!" and take revenge for what she did to him in his youth but when she finally does recognize him and he sees her not as a horrible, selfish and cruel monster that he saw before but a frightened and vulnerable old woman who is probably in the last days/months of her life, he completely changes his tune and comforts her instead. It really does show a turning point for him, that he comforts someone he hates, despite what she did to him whereas before he would have gone through with his initial plan.
What makes it even more poignant was what happened beforehand - Beatrice practically poisoned Hollyhock, and in doing so nearly destroyed BoJack's relationship with her, taking away one of the last good things in his life. If he HAD chosen to say "Fuck you, Mom" at that moment, few people would've blamed him. The fact that he chose compassion, at the moment where cruelty was not only easiest but arguably the most justified, really is a testament to how far he's come.
Not to mention so much of his growth came from his experiences with parenthood. We see how he has failed time and time again at being a father figure. He took advantage of Penny, he killed Sarah Lynn, he could barely manage the seahorse, he couldn't support Hollyhock in her insecurity, he allowed his bitterness to manifest itself against Beatrice's "baby" doll. After years of hating his mother, he finally cam to realize that she was a human being too. I think the change came when he saw what Beatrice did to Hollyhock. It was in that moment that I think he began to see Beatrice as broken inside too. When she gained lucidity, it all clicked. This was his last chance to try to nurture someone who saw him like a parent (in her frail state, she needed this kind of support). At that moment, he just broke down and wanted to be the supporting person both he and his mother failed to be in all their past attempts. Man...this show is amazing. Dramas with 3-4 time more running time don't accomplish nearly the depth this show does. When I rewatched it and realized he gave up his chance to attack his mother, it just welled me up inside =D
The facial expressions, pacing and voice acting really make this scene. When she recognises him he's in shock but quickly goes back to the attitute he's had with her, but as it goes on he comes to realize she's not really his mom anymore in that sense, and isn't and won't be aware of the cruel things she's done to him. He was expecting her to fight back and insult him one last time and when he realized that wouldn't happen he changed his tone and realized he might as well make her comfortable.
The thing is, I think some part of him always loved her. The fact that his imaginary daughter with Charlotte looks exactly like Beatrice implies so much. To me, it says that he loves her enough to imagine Harper looking just like her, and that through this daydream he can vicariously give his mother the better life he knows she probably deserved before her life went to shit, taking him along with her.
She was literally play just 2 years before S4 in S2
"We're listening to your brother play the piano" Ohhhh my heart >_
Lucy X Even worse is the her pause and the slight strain on her face before she said how great the ice cream is.
She never had ice cream so it was hard to see her lie to herself ):
You can even see her "women treats" stock piled on Bojack a fridge at one point in the season
Vincent Rodriguez I forgot about that detail when I watched this part. Damn.
Lucy X that killed me
Wait. Didn't BoJack just made a serious logical blooper here? Her mother was shown playing the piano, not Crackerjack...
What really blew my mind was realizing that Beatrice denied Bojack ice cream too. Remember in Season 1 when Bojack was writing his own version of the book in Episode 11. His idealized childhood featured his mother offering him several kinds of ice cream (something she would NEVER do) and settling on a "dreamsicle" which is probably a pun referencing the fact that such a treat would only exist in a dream for Bojack. This is reinforced by the fact that Bojack's refrigerator is filled with nothing but the lemons and sugar meant to serve as an ice cream substitute when Beatrice gives Bojack the painting after her father's death. The ice cream is a symbol for an act of love. This show is so well written and such a tight story.
What really hits it for me is that they're both lying to eachother in the end, Bojack telling her where they are, and Beatrice by saying she remembers the ice cream. Yet thinking back you remember she was never allowed ice cream in her house, and the look on her face says it all
I'm sure she had it at a later point and is now mixing the memories together. It's not at all intentional, as she also believed that Bojack was with her at the same time that her brother was playing the piano.
Oh fuck, the way she glances off to the side... :(
Mario And Wes well if you notice early in the season when she's in the home she says "no ice cream for me I'm watching my figure" or something like that. Maybe implying she has just always declined to ice cream
Everyone in her life has abused her, manipulated her or just ignored her in many ways. Her father never gave her the love she needed, her husband resented and downright hated her...even her own son resents and disowns her. And yet...in her possibly final moments of lucidity, she finds herself in a rundown apartment with her son saying goodbye...confused, she asks where she is. Her son, doing the one thing that no one else in her life has done...comforts her. He lies to her, telling that her family is telling her that 'everything is going to be all right' and she is enjoying a simple pleasure...vanilla ice cream. No rocky road, no chocolate...just simple vanilla ice cream without any of the trappings of elitism and vanity.
She lies to him...knowing that this will be the last time she will see her son...and she does the one thing she never did for him...comfort him. Letting him feel that he can let her die with some happiness.
Both of them sacrificed their hatred for each other for this final moment to think of what could have been if so many different things had happened...It could have been so...delicious.
to me she just couldnt really remember the flavor since she was never allowed to eat it, wich doesnt mean she never had it but probably had it so rarely that she couldnt remember it.
Either that or she felt like she finally could have icecream in the house like she wanted to as a child
That scene where I cried so hard.
To hate someone so much and yet pity them so deeply, you cant help but look up at the sky, then yourself and wonder: WHAT is the point of me?!
"Remember what we say about crying? Crying is stupid"
The only scene where I cried
That scene is where he should have said “Fuck you Mom!”
Pussy
What an amazing episode. They made Beatrice's shitiness much more complex than just "an evil mom" cliche, and after all BJ went through with her, he still comforted her in possibly the last time they'll ever see each other.
NONE nah. He's gonna have to take care of the funeral after she dies next season.
I cried like a little bitch with this episode, it was amazing the fact that Bojack did this. I think he is improving.
It's particularly powerful because it contrasts greatly with his view of family in Season 1 when he told Diane, "Family is a sinkhole and you were right to get out while you could". Now, he has mended his relationship with his mother and his half-sister. It's such a great development.
This may not be the exact last moments they'd have but it might be the last time she is lucid enough because this is the only time she even calls him BoJack. She's so out of it in her dementia that she mixes up memories with what's currently happening to her.
And I thought they were done after Bojack dropped the f-bomb in Thoughts and Prayers that would signal when he permanently ruined a relationship with someone. Usually, it is someone else angry at him who says that to him, like Herb in The Telescope or Charolette in Escape from LA. April 10, 2020, 8:58pm
How in the absolute fuck did they manage to make Bea a sympathetic character? Holy shit. Rapheal and company are too good.
Believe it or not. Sympathy is mainly due on our part since we can relate to someone in beatrish's position. Donm't get me wrong. Everything she did to Bojack was shitty, but was because she had noone(resposible and loving) to tell her how she should feel and how to positively place her pent-up hatred and digust.
But once we finally saw how shitty her life was back then, how much trama she suffered from watching her mother become a shell of her former self, how her Father used her as a tool to further his own agenda, and how her marriage tp butterscotch crumbled...its only natural that we all feel for her, and feel for now deterierating state of mind.
I think we sympathize because in all the things we do or don't do. The friends we make, the family we have. After all of it, and still you are alive. still living. That we could all end up like Bea somehow.
Those friends could go away, our family could leave. Money gone. No matter how you try to protect yourself, and ready yourself, any one of us could still end up in a old dingy room with a hanging exposed lightbulb. Alone, confused, and scared. we just don't know until we do if thats how we'll end up.
And we sympathize with the fear
This scene was beautiful and shows Bojack can change.
Even though we know Bojack to be petty, toxic and vindictive, he spend one of his mother's last few moments of lucidity to comfort her and make her feel happy. After all the awful shit she did to him over the years, he tried to make someone, whom he hates, to feel happy.
Bewan I don't think bea died though
Gyro True but she has very few years left and obviously has very few lucid moments. So this was going to be one of her last.
Bewan Bojack Horseman is a sweetheart for that. And also finding out that Hollyhock actually Butterscotchs kid and told her 8 dad's and how they have a sibling bond :3
It's hard to say she's even really lucid. She recognized Bojack this time and had some brief moments of realizing something was off, having just enough awareness to be frightened by that, but couldn't comprehend what she was looking at. She's still pretty far gone.
But man, it shows how much Bojack has changed in three and a half seasons that, in that moment, instead of telling her off or doing anything he wanted to, he does what you said. He comforts her when she needs it the most. He acts like a good son to a woman who doesn't really deserve it, based on how she treated him.
I think she was more lucid than you think. When Bojack asks her if she can taste the ice cream, her face deflates before she sadly replies that it's delicious. But she was never allowed to have ice cream at that house. I think she was going along with the story because her reality, and her life in general, was so grim that she chose the delusion.
It takes an absurd amount of strength in all forms for Bojack to give her some peace after all the horrible shit she did to him, especially after ruining his life again. And especially after being dead set on damning her in that shithole. And what makes it better, is that he doesn't even know a quarter of the horror she's been through..Yet he still finds it in his heart to at least give her peace.
King Kamina in retrospect, what she did to Bojack was nothing compared to what her father put her through.
That may be, but that doesn't make the things she did to Bojack acceptable. Doing less wrong doesn't make it right.
King Kamina makes it understandable though, how can one properly raise a child when your father wouldn't let you be one and your mother essentially died with your brother.
True. True.
thelinedrive
My Dad was. His father was an abusive drunk who would shit on literally everything my Dad wanted to do. When he wasn't verbally berating my Dad he would hit my grandmother. My Dad has never laid a single hand on me, has supported me through all my passions, and has shown unconditional love to me. He let me be a child since his Dad wouldn't give him one.
You can only blame your post for so long. At a point you need to start taking responsibility for your own life decisions. Nothing Bea did was understandable. She's a grown adult with her own free will. She chose to marry her husband, she chose to leave behind her old life, and she chose to treat Bojack so horridly.
What's shitty is Beatrice never even tasted ice cream before. All her life, she has always been eating "sugar and lemons" because her father said ice cream is for boys. What I've noticed is that ice cream and the lemons are motifs that symbolize how good her life would be or how bad it would be depending on her life choices. She chose a life with Butterscotch Horseman to try to make things work out because she was pregnant. To her this was a *sweet* thought, to think of her child and life without her father running the show. It simply crumbled when she realized how premature her decision was as living with Butterscotch became *sour* . The flavors of "sugar and lemons" is both sweet and sour. She could have chosen a life with Mort Creamerman who later confessed that his life's strings were being pulled by his parents which Beatrice could relate to. She potentially could have had a better life with Mort Creamerman which would result in "ice cream" in both a literal and metaphorical sense. She would have been able to taste ice cream and the sweetness life. In the end, Bojack feeds her with comforting thoughts to make her happy which is kindled by her dimentia. She hesitates when Bojack asks how the ice cream tastes. She can't say anything but describing it as "delicious"........ because she has never had ice cream her whole life. *That's too much man...*
Troy Carson that was beautiful.....and made me cry EVEN more
Holy feels batman
OH FUCK I DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE THIS.
Troy Carson I'm gonna make a fanart of Bojack taking ice cream to the asylum and giving his mum some. I swae out of all, that's what bothers me the most
hold up... this "ice cream" thing is also consistent with the name "butterscotch"
"Can you taste the ice cream?"
She almost could. She felt everything he said, it was all so real, and then she realized.
Reminds me of a quote I read somewhere once.
"Always forgive those you hate. Not because they deserve forgiveness, but because you deserve peace."
Except Herb because he was at peace and ok not to forgive Bojack.
Forgiveness never brought me peace. Revenge, however, did
This episode tore my heart. This really is the BEST DRAMA on tv right now.
Michał Wu I think you mean best show
Michał Wu *On Netflix*
I am not sure if they do this for cartoons but I think Will Arnett should be nominated for an Emmy for best lead actor in comedy and drama
Will Arnett is truly awesome.
@@Crayolapup On Television. It's solidified now, A year and some later.
It’s heartbreaking that Bojack actually tried to be kind but didn’t realize how much he hurt someone. He tried to give his mother a wonderful fantasy to live in the moment, but didn’t know 1 detail shattered it all. Growing up I’m sure he saw plenty of girls eat ice cream & even if his mother never did he probably thought it was just her own habit. In this moment Beatrice knew everything he was saying was a lie, that everyone was gone and that the song was truly over
Interesting take, but I personally don't see it as her realizing that it was a lie. As a kid she wasn't allowed to eat sweets because it wasn't considered "common" for young girls back then, I see it as Beatrice being hesitant to "eat" the ice cream because of that. But maybe I'm wrong here, you can interpret this show in so many ways!
The Beatrice arc this season was amazing. It gives a lot of depth to her character. Bea saw how much her mother loved Crackerjack, and saw what it did to her when she lost him. Not wanting that for herself, she distanced herself from BoJack as much as possible. Our parents no doubt shape who we are, but eventually what we do and who we are become our responsibility. BoJack seems, finally, like he's realized that. Here's hoping he lets the lesson stick, and breaks the cycle. If BoJack can't forgive his mother for being shitty, BoJack will never be able to forgive himself for being shitty, nor can he expect to be forgiven by others, if he is not willing to forgive.
Something to consider, though. Dementia, like depression, is hereditary.
deep!
👏👏👌
I don't think it's forgiveness as much as finding closure
@@heyyo966 True enough. Closure doesn't necessarily require forgiveness. Nor does forgiveness necessarily mean you want that person in your life anymore.
Can we just appreciate how good Wendie Malick's voice acting is here
Especially around 0:08
Gyro She is fantastic in just about everything she does but yes especially on Bojack. She portrays Bea at four very different parts of her life (childhood, teenage/young adult, unhappy marriage and parent years, senile old years on deaths door).
How great was she in just shoot me? Hilarious. And yes, very good here as well.
I was amazed with her performance, she can go from bossy alpha bitch in one scene to affable old lady in no time. (Like in time's arrow, her younger self sounds so full of herself, confident, strong and demanding, compared to her present day, scared, lost and even i dare to say, innocent)
@kristian rikardsen ayyye, TOH gang! I'm on a Wendie Malick binge
Eda Clawthorne’s past life was a horse
I believe that Beatrice, in her only moment of clarity, realized that Bojack was truly comforting her. So, even though her saying the ice cream was delicious, it wasn't spiteful or even a toxic lie. It was more a white lie since she realized Bojack's true intentions on that moment. A genuine respect for each other and what they were trying to do in that very moment
I think this was a moment when Bojack realized everything was long over, the abuse he suffered was real, the anger he feels is justified, but the person who hurt him was gone. Bea was just a shell now, she wouldn't even understand why she's being punished, it would be just Bojack, being awful to a clueless victim, just like his mom was to him.
You know I'm happy for both of them. Bojack because he is becoming a better person. He had his chance to tell her off but instead he chose to give this confused old woman happiness despite what she had done to him. And I'm happy for Bea because while she was horrible to Bojack, she suffer so much too ever since she was a child. She now have a moment where she is at peace
This episode was heartbreaking. I had to stop and give myslef a few minutes. Bojack's mother was a one dimensional character before this season. This season gives her so much more depth. She's had a hard life.
The sad thing is, that's the truth for most of the mean-spirited people in our lives.
My grandfather died one year ago, he was an abusive father, that beat my mother and my grandmother times and times again...In his last months they all helped him day and night as he was too sick...In the last year I've felt a continuos anger inside me as to why somebody like that could still be loved and cared for after everything...This scene made me realize that it is a lot more complicated, you love your parents no matter what they are...I have to say last night I cried myself to sleep, but now I feel so calm, for the first time I learned how good forgiving is
Thank you for sharing, I hope you and your family are able to grow and heal together 💙
How are you doing now?
@@vienna-mf8xb Quite well, had another hard year as my grandmother died with dementia and it was very close to the experience Bojack had. I am getting married in one month and life just kinds goes on.
@@andreiplopeanu8133so how your married life man?
@@tiberiusdawn2042 Best thing I ever did.
of all the harsh, heart breaking moments in this show, this was the scene that finally reduced me to tears. he wants Beatrice to suffer, to understand how much he feel like he loathes her. but when he finally gets the chance, he can't bring himself to do it. he comforts her. he will never admit it to anyone, but he really does care about his mother. and more than anything, he wants her love. and this is his only chance to see if she really cares. the truth is, he will never understand the pain she went through her entire life. and maybe, she just doesn't know how to show love and affection. but now it seems as though nothing that ever happened to ether of them matters. it might be the last chance for both of them to share a moment as a mother and son who love each other. and its the only thing they both want.
She really REALLY did not deserve that final mercy. And yet it was so beautiful to see regardless.
By far the most saintly thing Bojack has ever done. Few would have ever been able to do this to someone who put them through so much hell.
I know I couldn't.
Three years late, but you'd have to understand her side of the story too. She went through just as much hell.
This is, hands down, the saddest scene in the entire show.
It is, but it's also one of the most hopeful. Bojack doing something extremely kind to the woman who played a big part in destroying his psyche. Not only that, but he's showing this level of kindness to a woman who probably won't even remember it due to here dementia; it's a completely selfless act.
I wish he didn't destroy that lake house.
Everyone complimenting Bojack on being sweet here but I'm tearing up seeing how Bea becomes aware that he's lying to her now and then, and decides to just lie back because it's still a heartwarming feeling to finally bond with her son.
This episode was so lovely on how theyre both alike deep down to the core and that change can come at any point, just hopefully not too late.
Anyone notice that when she is scared, she says at 0:22 "I don't understand". That's the same thing she said to her mother after she got lobotomized but told a young Beatrice that she was "better". Couldn't help but notice that. And wow, it is brilliant yet depressing.
Alzheimer’s runs in my family and whenever my mom seems to forget something multiple times I get scared that I’m gonna have to go through this.
Al final, solo nos queda cuidar de nuestro cerebro, bro.
Nada es definitívo.
I know Bojack wanted to be able to say all his grievences to Beatrice's face, but if he'd gone that route it'd be overall ineffectual. He wanted her to know what she did and I don't think all the connections would have been there for her to understand him unloading on her. Even if she had perfect lucidity how long would she have until it was all forgotten again in her condition? Ultimately Bojack would still be left holding the baggage in his lap plus yet another shitty thing he did to another person. Instead he just let it go and do something nice to leave himself with a better memory. He has many more years to live with the memory. Not Bea.
As for Beatrice I'm wondering if the phone call she made to Bojack after she read the book was her way of acknowleging the things she did. She had a weird way of addressing it without actually saying an apology, but she what she said, "You must think I'm a real monster" indicates to me she did understand at that time. Followed up by, "I don't want to fight you Bojack." may be a subtextual admission she thinks she may have done wrong here. It's still hard to reread this scene in light of season 4, because then she goes on with the you were born broken speech. I wonder though... is she in part talking about herself? "You come by [the darkness inside you] honestly." Does this statement imply she doesn't come by it honestly? Because even by this point she won't just come out and admit fault. It's always a deflection to someone or something else with Beatrice. Bojack on the other hand recognizes his behaviours and on some occassions does apologize. Sometimes genuine sometimes not. Anyway, I think that was the closest Bojack ever got to making Beatrice understand the things she did.
laurellss88 I have a feeling the opening scene in season 5 will be her funeral
kmac1130 I hope not I enjoyed learnimg about how she grew up honestly Bea has been one of my,favorite characters even from the start. I knew she wasnt a bitch just to be a bitch her whole life was pretty shit, therefore making Bojack shit
\[Y]/ Praise the sun it's coming
I know she read the book, but which episode in Season 4? I forgot, I watched & completed the day it came out.
I've finally found it. This show has given me plenty of feels, but THIS was the first scene to make me cry. Thank you for posting this.
The fact this is the first scene that made you tear up is an accomplishment. Too many scenes will strike a chord at least for me. Show is a masterpiece.
cocoacoconuts24 All the entire episode make me cry
In
Bojack ended the cycle of parent-born hatred. He really is the good guy.
He tries to be but he is not.
1 step at a time
@@geisterwolf397 The better man, at least. Not a good guy, but a better guy.
Yeaaaahhhhh, let's go with that 👍
I feel like that was hollyhock ,not bojack
something about the way she says "delicious" around 1:20 makes me think the ice cream is symbolic for her having married corbin creamerman instead of butterscotch. this is what could have been, a happy fantasy without bscotch. or that's super obvious and i'm dumb, idk
Actually, if anyone remembered what happened on episode 2, Bea was never allowed to eat ice cream, because of her dad's fucked up sense of an ideal lady.
Also if you look in Bojacks fridge during her dementia breakdown it's full of lemons and sugar, what her dad made her eat instead of ice cream. It's likely she never even tried ice cream and the 'delicious' part is simply her final loss into fantasy, creating the taste of one of the many joys she lost as a child to her farther.
well also the fact that she chose odd phrasing but when you take into account that she's never eaten ice cream in her entire life, i guess delicious is the best way to phrase the way it tastes
I’ve never cried harder over a TV show then this one. The genuine panic coming from Beatrice’s voice after she grabs a glimpse of her surroundings. The sympathy and regret BoJack feels as he physically stays in the room, while he mentally leaves. It hurts to watch him finally get a view of what his vulnerable mother was like, too little, too late. She tries sympathizing with him by lying about the taste of vanilla ice cream. So sad.
My moment was the ending of Band of Brothers. Still gets me.
As someone who comes from a house with domestic violence, living what my mom went through as a child is not only confusing as heck (as to why she's repeating history), but also heartbreaking. Just like my mom, Beatrice spent all of her development years experiencing trauma after trauma and, then, when she was barely starting to make choices for herself, she had Bojack, her marriage deteriorated and she felt stuck in a life that made her miserable. She didn't knew any better and continued her family's legacy of traumatizing one's kids. I like to imagine in this scene Bojack finally saw his mom as she was, somehow reconciled his past with his love for her and allowed himself to give her once last chance while also keeping his distance for his own mental health and happiness. I wonder if I would be able to do the same thing
Nobody cares or asked
Senile Beatrice smiling at the delusion that Bojack gives her, describing her lake house in Michigan (that he destroyed by the way, possibly a foreshadowing to their relationship that could never be repaired) is kind of adorable
Didn't really think when watching but watching again realising, Bojack said the moment his mum was lucid he'd tell her off, but instead even at his worse time with her after everything he instead comforts her. That's freaking beautiful and just shows so much of the complexity of these characters.
I think 0:25 is the point where he realizes he's not talking to his mother anymore. He's talking to a scared old woman.
"Everyone deserves to be happy."
This show will punch you in the stomach for every episode you watch.
I remember Will Arnett saying that he once warned the creator of Bojack Horseman that he was going to have to pay for Arnett's therapy. With every season being more and more of a gut-punch, I suddenly wonder how many times Will Arnett has emotionally broken down in the recording studio.
My dad went through what Bojack did, if not worse, and he decided to distance himself from his abusive parents for our (his kids’) sake. When his parents called in the past, he used to argue with them and get mad all the time, but now, they call and he tries to joke around with them, agreeing with them, and tells them he loves them.
They’re happiest when they’re lying to each other.
Nobody cares or asked
@@art23428 Piss off
Lying is one of the stupidest things that anyone are annoyed by in the world.
@@art23428 we love you. Big hugs 🤗
@@ChelseaPariella I agree, it’s stupid and weird. But hey, whatever makes them happy I guess. Glad I don’t have to lie to my own parents.
Something that kills me about this scene.. is later one when bojack is giving the eulogy during Beatrice’s funeral- he reiterates how he expected some grand gesture, or anything to show Beatrice to some degree cared for him. Well, he got it here. When bojack is trying to comfort Beatrice in this state and he mentions the vanilla ice cream.. instead of berating her son how she had her entire life; she takes a deep breath, and seems to decide to go along with what he said. Whether it was out of love, or an exhausted indifference to fight anymore toward the end of her life.. it makes me truly sad bojack will never release this kindness she showed him, because he didn’t know his mother well enough to know she had never tried ice cream.
He broke the cycle. The pain and anger and resent that family has carried over the years and he let it go. A final act of compassion to a broken and undeserving wreck of a person.
The reward could very well be peace for the both of them.
your comment gave me shivers. It's exactly what you said.
The best way to make unsympathetic character kind of likable is to make you understand why they are the way they are. It does not excuse any of their bad actions, and it does not absolve them from any blame, but it does make you go: “It feels like I know you, and I wish you had it better.” It’s like that one friend you grew up with and you see them sort of turn into someone you don’t care much for, but you still kind of hope for the best because you know how good they can be.
This season kinda made me feel sorry for what happened to Beatrice too. It shows that....hate just breeds more hate. It takes a person to change to stop the cycle. This show hints that it is possible to change.
:( She's never had ice cream.
"BoJack Horseman, I see you"
So, after all that talk about finally telling her off, Bojack decides it isn't worth the effort or energy anymore. His mother is already in a fairly godawful state of mental instability, and a few years of a dizzying downward spiral into this rabbit hole of green pastures, broken promises, dead dreams, loves lost and forgotten, and simple things she will never see again when she crosses beyond the threshold, is already more of a Cathartic end to an otherwise empty, tragic existence than anything Bojack could have done to her.
At the very least, he sent her off with a peace of mind.
Despite how shitty their mother/son relationship is, this was a good scene where BoJack tells his mom she's at the lake house and there's ice cream. Giving her some form of happiness before her death.
To those who will argue that he lied to her, well let me tell you an interesting fact about dementia because I caregive someone with dementia and experienced it plenty of times to know how to deal with it. With dementia patients, you have to lie to them. It sounds wrong and unfair, I know better, but dementia patients can't process truths. For instance and something recent, the guy I caregive (I'll give him a pseudonym), Moe one time went through an episode--where they play on a memory and can't make heads of tails that it's not recent and that it happened years ago--where he was trying to look for his dog named Boris and his dog had been dead for over 5 years. Moe would go to the back deck and look towards a house next door and was trying to go outside to look for Boris who Moe said was next door at his son's place. Moe's son hasn't been living at that house for over 10 years. I told him truths that his son doesn't live next door anymore and that he moved elsewhere. The truth did not click with Moe. He sat down and I told him truthfully that Boris has passed for some odd years and that he has new dog (whom he often confuses as Boris because they're the same breed, but their new dog's female). Yeah he asked questions, but it didn't sit long with him and he didn't accept it as truth as Moe got up and tried to go outside to go next door to get his dog.
So here's where I had to lie to him. I told him, that I'll go next door and get his dog and that he doesn't need to go get him, that he should sit down and relax while I get him. It got him to stop trying to escape and he walked back to the room to watch TV. Did I go get his dog? No, I just walked off and his episode passed with the forgetfulness. You see, with dementia patients, you can't tell them the truth because it doesn't click with them and it won't get them to snap out of their episode, but if you lie them, they accept it as the truth and will stop with their episodes. I don't like to lie, but with someone with dementia, it's necessary and doctors will tell you that. Click on the link for more info.
dailycaring.com/why-experts-recommend-lying-to-someone-with-dementia/
It’s the ultimate fantasy, leaving your abusive parent in a home. But Bojack can’t even enjoy it because his mother doesn’t understand what’s happening.
Ok I've never watched Bojack. I came across this video by chance and I'm just sobbing. I'm turning netflix on right now and watching this shit, wish me luck dudes
Good luck, dude.
Oh you gon cry
good luck bro
Be warned, the first three seasons get progressively more grim, so keep all sharp objects away from yourself while watching.
BACK IN THE 90S I WAS IN A VERY FAMOUS TEEEEEEE-V SHOWWWW
I think this was when bojack realized the people who abused him was long gone, and was just a frightened scared old woman, with a childlike mindset. He comforted her even though he had every right to hate her and leave her there. I think This shows he still has a heart and still wants his affection from his mother, but he knows he’ll never get it because she has dementia now.
This is the only cartoon that has (IMO) been able to actually be touching. My grandmother cried when she saw this.
I've had moments watching this show where I questioned whether or not I was a good person. I almost cried watching this scene.
This was probably the best and most well-written episode of TV I've ever watched because they simultaneously made the most villainous character of this show into a sympathetic person without redeeming her or excusing her actions, and answered the overarching question of the season (who is Hollyhock's mom?) at the same time.
There isn't a single wasted line in this episode and it covers all the elements of her character (weight loss, reliance on drugs, childhood trauma relating to motherhood and loss, etc). An element that I don't see people talk about a lot is also the most pertinent thing that relates her to her son, her son to his father, and is the crux of this final scene, storytelling.
All throughout the episode Beatrice is constantly being told that she should be happy and having reality constantly fail her. And for that, she is cynical of her husband's novel and her son's shows and constantly disparages stories and tv in general. In various occasions we see her ask young Bojack to "tell her a story" in a flippant way and it implies that it's part of her abusive spirals.
This is a high point for Beatrice Horseman. Even though she is being shut in a shitty home for the rest of her life, even though the story is fake and her mind is in pieces, after a lifetime of being bitter, hateful, and miserable for once she is actually letting herself try to be happy and is letting her son be the one who helps her.
She didn't seem to have any friends as a child, and likely not as an adult either. The toys were all she had after her mom was lobotomized. I was close to my toys as a little girl too (not for the same reasons) and seeing the doll in the fire was so upsetting that after the narrative went back to the present, I had to pause Netflix and cry.
This is the first episode of the show to make me do so.
This makes this season's F-Bomb way more impactful than it was at first. The first three seasons showed Bojack having them dropped in relation to how bad a person he was being and how bad his actions were, but this one does just the opposite. That whole episode is spent trying to get Bojack to get his mother to recognize him so he could pour out how much he hated her and tell her to go fuck herself before she dies, and now when she finally does recognize him (after months of in show time) he finally decides to do the decent thing and comfort her despite of the all anger he probably felt and still feels. A big shift in tone for Bojack's personality.
That’s terminal lucidity. Terminal lucidity is a real phenomenon where sometimes, dementia patients briefly regain their faculties in the hours leading up to their death.
At the end, she knows it’s fake. She was never allowed to eat ice cream. I can see it on her face.
i like the choice of silence,instead of background music,really captured the emotion yk?
Something very heartbreaking about this scene is that throughout previous episodes bojack had been waiting for bea to regain consciousness to tell her how much he hated her, but when it finally happened the only thing he could bring himself to say is this
Even though i never liked Bojack's mom, this in my opinion is one of the most heartwarming scenes in the series.
Bojack transcending his ego and giving into his mother’s delusions. It’s crazy how it reveals that Bojack knew. Bojack knew of the little details from his mother’s past. And it doesn’t make him or her any better or less for the trauma they’ve both endured. But it’s trauma. And she’s lost so he swallows his pride and gives into her delusions. I’ve felt this so many times it’s painful how real it it.
I've had a similar past with Bojack and his mom. Only this scene happened when I was in 6th grade instead of when I was near 50 years old. My mom felt sorry. She wanted to change, because she too had an abusive mom and dad that would wish that she was never born and never love her everyday. My mom's been 7 months no beer, no drugs.
Beatrice actual did eat a freezie pop once,
Her mom let her have it since her mom was spiraling at the time
So I always thought that sigh was because the only memory she has of ice cream is when her mom lost her mind
This right here people, is unconditional love between a parent and their child. Doesn't matter how shitty their relationship was. Once both recognize their love for each other, even in the slightest instant and way, they want to hold onto it in order to give and receive it.
It's the golden nugget hidden beneath all the struggles like in Diane's analogy earlier on in the season. Bojack believed in the smallest remaining, hidden unconditional love he still had for his mother. And he gave her that love in full. And she, in return, embraced it and loved him back, unconditionally. Why? Because they wanted to, and they knew it was good.
They all deserved better generational trauma is a bitch 😭
Very noble of Bojack to comfort her, but I think no one would have blamed him for just leaving her there. She was horrible to him and no backstory can justify what she did.
Still, a good closure considering how terrible his days living with his family were
Muy cierto
Does she knows that bojack is lying to her? By the way she makes her face describing the taste of the ice cream?
Or did she fell back into dementia?
she never ate ice cream.
she was in a semi lucid place, Bojack more or less put her into a happy childhood memory and since she never had ice cream before she filled in the blank herself.
I think she did, the moment of hesitation and her voice when she says its delicious is a giveaway for me.
I think she did know after he asks if she can taste the ice cream. She snaps out and lies to him. She doesn't want to tell him all of the horrible stuff she's gone through, so she let's him comfort her. An online review mentioned that Beatrice was most afraid of loosing people. This is the closest shes ever been to loosing bojack, and I think she knew it too.
Her mom said ice cream was always for boys so yea
Season 4 alone was a heart wrenching masterpiece.
this reminds me of when beatrice would yell at bojack to tell her a story when he was a kid. hes probably had to do something similar to this a thousand times.
Perhaps I am late but a small detail I caught on is the fact she remembered Bojack.... from what I have noticed (since some of my family members had this happened.) when someone has Alzheimer or dementia and they remember you, it usually indicates your last day or days... So in a way, it is somewhat a sweet way to say goodbye, giving her peace and having no fights.
This show is heart-wrenching. I keep replaying certain scenes from the show in my head.
She never eat ice cream, she didn’t have her whole family there telling her it will be alright, it was all beautiful lies.
Even though Bojack over all is a pretty crappy person, I can give him his credit for not using this as a last opportunity to have a jab at Beatrice...
1:19 I can't tell if that's a lucid moment where Beatrice knows Bojack is lying or her mind fading in and out.
She's never eaten ice cream before, so she can't know what it tastes like. She's still fading in and out, but she's lucid enough to know the ice cream is a lie
The biggest saving grace for bojack as a character is despite his greed, vanity, impulsiveness, and selfishness, he still has empathy and acts on it. Oftentimes however, too late to do much good.
I started bawling during this scene, and I hardly ever cry. This whole episode just broke me
I would have just kept on walking even if she recognize me
At this moment, right here, 1:20, you can see bea's face change from happy to upset, not because she realizes that Bojack is telling her a lie, but because she never got to have ice cream. Remember how she was told my her mother that ice cream was for boys? She lived her entire life not having ice cream because she grew up thinking it was only for boys. She can't think of what the ice cream tastes like. That just goes to show the immense attention to detail in this show. And she was also looking to her left. Since the right side of the brain controls the left, and since the right half of the brain is the creative side, her looking to her left indicates her trying to come up with how ice cream might taste. There's so many little details in the show, I've watched it so many times and I'm still discovering something new every time I watch it.
Even tho she was so evil to him he still loves her so much
Beatrice did got to taste popsicles, albeot just before a traumatic moment in her life, but never vanilla ice cream
When you let go of your hate and peel back the layers of those who harmed you, you inevitably see that they were once you. Bojack may start becoming a better person! I can't wait for the next season!!!
I should be going to class but instead im crying my heart out bc of this video 😭
I was almost to nothing to burst into tears at the end of this episode, especially with this moment where BoJack just break the toxic circle in which he and her mother were bred (kind of). This is the best "adult cartoon" and the best show ever made. I'm not afraid of exaggerating!
"Bojack? Is that you?"
And he said he'd never have a mother who looked across the room at him and say "Bojack, I see you."...
I actually cried during this scene. I didn't get as emotional in the other episodes even the one with Sarah Lynn passing, but this scene really got to me.
this scene made me cry so much
..."and we're eating ice cream. Vanilla ice cream." I just can't... that's too much, man.
This is probably the closest they had to a stable relationship, when Beatrice is on death's door with dementia and Bojack is lying about what's going on to help her feel better, so tragic
The way she pauses before describing the taste of ice cream is heart wrenching
I used to like this scene, but now that my grandfather is showing more signs of forgetting so much. It feels all too real, and now to me that makes this a great scene
Interesting how Bojacks mom resembles her own mother in grief in this scene
"Who ordered a tall glass of heartache?"
Me: "Wasn't me."
"Well, here you go."
Generational trauma has never before been portrayed more accurately. Just simply astonishing
The only good thing Bojack has done, and there's no witness.
I just realized she never really got to taste Icecream growing up. When she wanted some with her brother her mom told her to suck on a lemon with sugar instead.
Bojack's best and kindest acting performance
literally bawling every time. every. damn. time. 😭
Bojack, I've never had ice cream...
but you got some.
Fuck, as the show once said: that's too much man