Its kinda sweet cause she plays along with it she accepts her situation and bojacks comfort her. the only truly loving moment they have that we have seen with the 2
Props to bojack for this. He could of just left her in her misery. But despite his awful childhood he did one thing he really didn't have to and leave her with a good memory... Really proud of him in this episode
Except he didn't. His mother was never allowed to eat ice cream. Look at her face right before she says "delicious." She's lying to him, one last time. Bojack doesn't know of course, he's trying to do the right ting, but that one innocent question "can you taste it?" destroys it all.
I don't think she's willfully lying: while slowly losing the pieces of her old memories, she really believes what bojack's saying to put her mind at peace. In this piteous fantasy, she can FINALLY taste that so longed for ice-cream. :'(
+Marcos Darbyshire you don't "wake up" from dementia. Once it's there it's there for good. From this episode we got a look into beatrice's mind and saw how the dementia was effecting her. Things that didn't make sense were happening in her mind, while she was still in the moment. The ice cream question is what didn't make sense to her, but her dementia made it make sense. In fact, Bojack inadvertently helped his mom do something she always wanted to do, even if it was fake.
This scene hit me the hardest from all of the new season because I don't ever want to be in a situation where my own mother won't recognize me or my sister. I almost cried when she "woke up" and recognized BoJack and she was visibly scared that she didn't know where she was.
I can't help but feel like she doesn't believe his lies of where they are...and she lies to him. Both of them have lied to each other their whole lives, and even to now they still lie
This was the happiest ending that Bojack could have provided for his mother. Even after all she had pit him through he still did care for her at the very end.
It's most definitely not a happy ending. She was never allowed to eat ice cream. Look at her face right before she says "delicious." They're two shattered people, lying to each other and lying to themselves.
It's most definitely not a happy ending. She was never allowed to eat ice cream. Look at her face right before she says "delicious." They're two shattered people, lying to each other and lying to themselves.
Gianni Verschueren It seemed bittersweet to me. He really could've told her off, but he attempted to make her happy before he left even if she saw through the ice cream thing.
Well what else could've he have done to appease her? She had nothing left of her mind or sanity at this point. He could've just told her the truth and left her distraught but instead he sweetened the story to keep her happy.
She didn't see through the ice cream thing. Ice cream brought back a painful memory, of her father. She sees the ice cream but was afraid to enjoy it. Like a child who's afraid to touch the stove after being burned.
Holy shit Bojack honestly has one of the most compelling arcs of any TV show ever. Bea ruined his life, from the day of his birth to poisoning Hollyhock. But he still did the right thing and helped her.
mwjones99 he didn't help her. He put her in a shitty fucking environment, left to die. And she has dementia, she didn't mean to poison his.. (spoiler) Half sister? It's all sorts of fucked up.
Erin Miller How is it fucked up? Do you really think Bojack would be able to live with his mother in his own home with the way he is? It was the best he could do for her. That's life. It's bitter.
The Pious "the best he could do for her" - is asking deliberately for the worst room available. Sure. Life can be bitter. It's what you make it. And bojack made it very, very bitter for his mother. As revenge I suppose. He could have made sure she was left in good hands! But I agree, bojack can't even take care of himself, let alone an elder with dementia.
have anyone noticed that every season the episode 11 is where the heaviest emotional stuff happens? bojack's bad trip, him and penny almost making out, sarah lynn's death... and now this episode
The way this episode was portrayed was so different from what I predicted. I thought it was gonna be bojack and his mother throughout the whole episode, but instead we got more answers from the past, which in the end, I’m kinda glad it went like this
This becomes a lot more powerful when you consider that Bojack doesn't know about Beatrice's past in as much detail as the audience. His perception of her is solely based on the abusive and traumatic youth and the consequences on his personal life. And yet, at this moment of opportune vulnerability, where Bojack has all the power and all the reasons, decides to comfort her - describing a most beautiful scene.
I work with the elderly so I end up seeing stuff like this very often (apart from the "see you never"). If sons, daughters or even old friends aren't there to reassure them I sit down and talk with confused dementia patients, playing along and doing what BoJack does here. I've had to pretend that it's WWII or that I'm somebody's lost son or had to reassure people in their nineties that their parents are just at work and haven't been dead for decades. Out of the entire show, the Bea storyline has probably hit me the hardest. Despite being a cartoon horse I've never seen a more accurate portrayal of dementia in a character, and her moment of clarity as well as BoJack's kindness to a woman who treated him like garbage just... "That's too much, man!"
The Mad Queen I agree. It made me feel things I didn’t think were possible - not just for BoJack but for Bea as well. The portrayal of dementia is humbling as well as humanizing.
I don't know who you are, but thank you for doing this. My literal biggest fear (besides undergoing surgery) is that I will develop dementia or lose my memory some day and I'm only 23. I don't know how I'd live if that happened to me. So, on behalf of everyone who has family, friends, or people who suffer/suffered from dementia or Alzheimer's, thank you for giving them a moment's peace and making them feel good, even if it's all a lie.
Thank you for what you do. It's so difficult for my family to take care of my grandma and her dementia, it brings me some comfort to know there's people like you in the world who care and who make their lives a bit better.
Yep. Right before my great grandpa passed, he was really far gone. My grandmother (his daughter) was talking to him a few days before and he didn’t recognize her and asked who she was. She told him her name was Bev, and that she was his daughter, but his response was still “oh, I have a daughter named Bevvie!” He didn’t know who she was anymore, because in his mind his “Bevvie” was still a kid. Just heartbreaking.
Holy shit 1:06 “We’re listening to your brother play the piano” the only way Bojack could know about that was if Beatrice told Bojack about her childhood
I cried on this part.. His mom was never allowed to have ice cream when she was younger and she paused when saying yes because of that. She doesn't know what it tastes like. BoJack is showing signs of change here too. He wanted to tell her off for so long, but when it finally came he did a good thing. Such a great season. Season 3 left on that hanger and this one wraps up a lot better. I will be content waiting for the next season now.
Looking back through the show, it's clear what the main theme of Bojacks family is: Neglect. Beatrice's father and grandfather never were taught or learned how to show compassion and comfort those who need it. When Butterjack died, he refused to support his wife, then when Beatrice got Scarlet Fever and burned her doll, he failed to comfort her as well when she needed it most. When Bojack was born, niether Beatrice nor Butterscotch never once showed love or compassion to him. When Henrietta got pregnant, Beatrice thought she was supporting her, by paying her tuition and setting her life up, but when she took the baby, she neglected her the comfort she really may have needed. Bojack, instead of giving her the "Fuck you" he wanted, comforted her, showing the love and compassion that was never there before, resulting in him ending the cycle of neglect.
Isaiah Williams I think something good about Bojack is them showing that mental health and therapy in general isn’t a bad thing. If honey had been allowed actual psychological help and not a lobotomy, bea’s life could’ve been vastly different because she’d still have a mom. If Bea had acknowledged that she was an abusive mom or her and butterscotch had a bad marriage they could’ve gone to therapy. Heck, even in the 60s if your wife went to therapy the therapist told your husband all the details and that was enough to send them off to be declared insane whereas nowadays they have confidentiality agreements.
Funny thing is that Bojack just couldn't end the cycle that's why his life is what it is, that's why almost every single person who comes across him and survives just don't want to talk to him anymore, he is so damaged that even when he tries he hurts those around him, he traumatize them. And even more ironic is that Beatrice actually broke the cycle for Henrietta and Hollyhock, and when Hollyhock tried to reconnect with them she almost dies and then when she tries to keep in contact with Bojack she learns just how broken he truly is and just can't be around him anymore.
The hesitation and Beatrice sort of sagging before she said delicious was heartbreaking. She never got ice cream and just decided to settle with "delicious" to describe it, I think.
As others have said, he unknowingly broke the illusion there. Her eyes tell she pretty much snapped back to reality and had another moment of clarity. She understood where she was, but continued to play along to indulge BoJack in thinking he was making her feel good. The roles kind of switched at the very end.
As sad as this scene is, i cant stop imagining how "the fireflies are dancing in the sky" and "the crickets are chirping" are going to look like in bojack's world lol
Both penultimate episodes of Season 3 and Season 4 end with Bojack sitting with two influential women in his life, one a daughter figure, the other his mother. The season 3 ep. 11 ending has Bojack monologuing to Sarah Lynn about the importance of the single moment they're sharing, and how nothing else, past or future, really matter. Sarah Lynn can't really appreciate the moment with Bojack, because she's passed on. He sits there talking to nobody but himself, and in some ways the monologue is just him trying to reassure himself and his own insecurities, and trying to absolve himself of how he's acted in the past. This time, with his mother as his audience, and aware of his presence for the first time all season, he's able to reassure her in a way he never did with Sarah Lynn. This monologue is less about him and more about him giving some comfort to his mother. But the words of Season 3 still hold true. At that moment, with him and his mom together, nothing else matters. The past that they've shared, all the ugly, bitter moments, none of it matters. What matters is this moment that he provided for her. A single moment of peace. It's sort of redemptive considering last season. It's the most selfless thing Bojack has done. He was giving his mother a necessary illusion. Beautiful show.
+Plasmabolt64 Yes I am. Besides from the times we see her on screen Bojack doesn't give a shit about her. He doesn't think about her, call her, or anything. Sarah Lynn never effected Bojack's life until he wanted her to drugs with him. Sarah Lynn, just like Herb, has always been a side character to Bojack. They never gained importance until he wanted them to. It wasn't like Kelsey where he desperately sought her approval, or Charlotte whom he wanted to start a family with, or princess caroline who has always been there for him, and etc. Sarah Lynn was just another chapter in Bojack's book until he realized what a shitty person he's been to her when she died in his arms.
Knife Cat oh I see from the way you said it, you made it sound like she LITERALLY didn’t affect him at all (including her death and how he felt about it)
We took care of my wife's mother at home the last year of her life as dementia and Parkinson's destroyed her for the last time. She hadn't recognized any of us for at least 3-4 years, so we simply kept her comfortable and tried to make her happy as we could. About 4 months before she passed, my son and I were sitting with her at the kitchen table (my wife was at work) as she fiddled with some kids toys we had spread out. Out of the blue, she said both of our names and suddenly become cognizant of who she was and - more importantly - who we were. She asked for her daughter and we excitedly tried to call my wife's work to get her home for this incredible happening. However, horribly, it lasted only a few moments and she was gone again. It was one of the saddest moments of my life and this brought it all back. Incredible show.
When my grandpa had dementia and couldn't remember his own wife, I came to visit from California for Christmas. As soon as I entered, he looked at me and did a double take, and said "I thought you were in California, what are you doin here?". He somehow recognized me and remembered where I was. It was evident that he wasn't all there, but I could still see the sparks of him inside. I wouldn't wish dementia on my worst enemy.
That last quote from Beatrice, made me think that she knew what was happening and in order to make Bojack, his son, leave with a calm conscious decided to go along with Bojack set up of her being in her old town. This is one of those scenes where Beatrice could show Bojack her love, by accepting her last moments of her life where going to be spent in the worst room with the view to the garbage. But knowing that Bojack would be in some sort of peace, was a thing that made her accept her fate. That's why that Vanilla Ice cream tasted so... Delicious.
Other commenters said that it's because "her parents never let her have ice cream, only sugar on a lemon" So when he mentions the ice cream it breaks her illusion and she still plays along
@@Evergreeee He died in WWII. She and her mother loved him, and his death is a key moment of the whole generational trauma affecting people so far removed as Hollyhock today, So yea.
This scene is what finally made me actually really fear something. I'm not scared to die, I'm not scared of monsters or anything like that, but this...this scares me. Dementia runs in my family and I now live in fear of the day I will be this
Medical technology and research is advancing at an amazing rate. Hopefully soon enough amazing minds will be able to treat or cure it. Best wishes and take care out there.
Judging by the top comments, people really don’t understand the weight of this scene. He doesn’t do this because ‘deep down he’s really empathetic’ or ‘he has a soft spot’. It’s much more tragic. He built up all of his resentment leading to the one moment he could tell his mom how much damage she caused, but once the moment came, all he wanted to do was play pretend about the childhood he wish he had, and the mom he wish he had. He never felt love growing up, and he would rather recreate an imaginary sense of safety for a fleeting moment than have retribution
This scene hits me like a truck... I cried... When boujack finally has a chance to get his well deserved revenge... He choose to confort his morther... I don't know if i could ever act like that
It's so tragic that she was so afraid of ending up like her mother, who lost her mind due to depresion and abuse... and then she herself lost her mind slowly, naturally due to an illness
Funny is, that Bojack, who promised that when his mother remembers who he is, he'll tell her how much he hates her for everything now comforts her in the end
In my opinion, this was the strongest episode of the season, and Bojack's mother was a character I started to pity but look at with a different understanding. It's pretty clear that the shitty trauma his mother and father expressed to him is the reason he's as he is now, but besides that just getting a glimpse of Beatrice's life was absolutely heartbreaking. (I doubt anyone here hasn't seen this episode and the rest of the season but if you haven't I'm going to be uses examples aka spoilers) Her mother became a shell of a person when she was just a child, easily diminishing any marital figure in her life so all she was exposed to was the skewed perspective on what a woman should and shouldn't be according to her father. I doubt he didn't love her, as evident when she got sick and his reaction, however it wasn't as though he was so keen on letting her be an individual. It wasn't until she got her masters degree that she really began to understand the world and garner her own perspective. She was someone who genuinely believed in self-expression and progressive ideals, which are both fantastic character traits. And yet, still there was influence deeply sewn from her childhood that effected her and how she treated people. She hit it off with Bojack's father, has Bojack, then proceeds to lose this idealistic nature she once held. It can be argued that this is just a fact of life as people grow older and jaded from negative experiences throughout life, however this attitude was projected from her onto her son and effectively scarred him for the rest of his life. She insulted his confidence, his interests and passions. She made him feel worthless over his career choices. And yet, her life had been twisted in such nasty ways that she refused to make any changes to it whatsoever(divorcing her husband for example even though the two continually made each other worse and worse). I think what really makes this scene hit harder than any other in the season, was how on a surface level(let's say you're hearing only Bojack's perspective of her) she seemed and sounded like such a terrible mother. She verbally abused her son throughout his life and even overdosed his half-sister(then daughter). And yet knowing more of her life and story, it highlights a true fact about people -- no matter how cruel or evil someone can be, they're still a human. This isn't a justification for what vile acts they've done, but just a simple note to keep in mind. Maybe at that moment, seeing his mother in a wheelchair helplessly asking questions beside the dusty window had him realize this. And maybe that's why he told her all of those sweet memories. It was definitely a bittersweet moment for both of them, but also a point that proved that no matter what shit you've seen and lived through, you're still a human that only means you can become better eventually. It's a scary thought to wonder if you'll ever be like Beatrice; once a vibrant person with high hopes and faith in the future only to become but a shell of those dreams. And to spread your disdain for everything towards impressionable people who were just life you at one point. And I think it's terrifying that you could be in her situation, left in a cold room alone by people who were supposed to care for you but lost their desire because of your own actions. Bojack putting his mother her was the result of what I just said, but what he last said to her was from him seeing beyond what she'd done to him for years and being mindful of the situation she was in. Yeah she was shitty, but being shitty to someone who you consider shitty just makes you shittier.
@Blackwolf MGTOW "no matter how cruel or evil someone can be, they're still a human. This isn't a justification for what vile acts they've done, but just a simple note to keep in mind." Did you even read the reply?
For me this is one of the best scenes from all time, the ilustration of dementia in the show is perfectly made to look how cruel this disease is, trully touching how bojack choses to have compashion for his mother one last time after all.
You know, Bojack would have had EVERY reason to walk away forever from his mother, and leave her to rot in the filthy nursing home. None of us would have batted an eye for it, considering all that Beatrice put him through. But he didn't. He stopped, and painted a beautiful picture for what was left of her deteriorating mind. That right there, is a huge step forward for progress to Bojack. The 'fuck you' for this season was more a 'fuck you' to his past and his trauma--and maybe in a way, a fuck you to his old self.
This is the first time I really cried during a Tv show. It hurts to see some you hated since her first introduction, but through flashbacks and subtle details, you can see what went wrong. Bojack could have left her there but instead, he told her one last thing and let us the viewer know that he forgives her in his own way. This is a beautiful show and deserves all of its recognition.
Bojack really had no obligation to do what he did here. But he did. You can tell he wanted to do the opposite and tell her off like he said, but he chose against it. It's a heart wrenching moment of positive character growth.
There is a stage in dementia called paradoxical lucidity. It happens in the very last stage, just weeks or days before the sufferer dies. This surprisingly common occurance gives the patient an understanding of where they are, who they are, and decent access to their formerly "lost memories". Family members can often mistake this for their dementia being cured. This is one of the most genuinely depressing things a dementia carer can witness.
"Can you taste the ice cream, Mom?" This line *always* fucks me up. Bojack gave Beatrice the one kindness shes never had: he asked her what *she* thought. *And Beatrice has never tasted ice cream.*
The irony is that BoJack has every reason to leave her but he never did. He got his independence but after she lost all her money thanks to her husband BoJack never left her side and took up supporting her. Even after almost killing Hollyhock he still decided to support her. People said its because BoJack could change but after the final season its likely that Beatrice was the only person who truly knew him and was still holding out for that jacket moment. Even at the funeral he was hoping it would come.
Bojack finally grew in character and is finally, even a tiny bit, happier. This episode hit me like a ton of bricks. Well done creators and writers, well fucking done.
i think beatice realized at the end that he was lying to her because she never tasted ice cream and so his description of the past didn’t fit with her memories. but at that moment, just like bojack decided to do one last act of kindness to her, she did the same and lied to say that it was delicious because she has no other descriptions for it
Honestly, good for bojack for trying to make her situation just a little bit better. So many people, including myself have gone through crappy childhoods, cause parents like beatrice and when you have all that trauma created by these type of people, it's soooooooo hard to be the better person! Like SO hard! You can't help but think why should I be nice? After all I've been through by you? Why should I be the bigger person? When do I get to feel better? But....it's shockingly possible to build a better relationship with those who have hurt you or at least move on from them. I'm glad I can say, that after alot of anger, sadness, understanding my own others trauma amd reliving alot of trauma trying to rebuild that bridge, I finally have the good relationship I've always wanted with my mom. And has been to better with her own toxic tendencies over the last 2 years.
I never cried so much in my life, just some here and there, never actually cried in some series or any media um general, but that episode, this freaking good scene made me cry, this show is so good that I can’t even describe!
If you want another appreciation for such a fantastic show, after you bingewatch all the episodes, binge them again in reverse order. You'll pick up subtle nuances and realizations about how deep foreshadowing actually goes throughout the entire life of the show. Phrases and mentions that you otherwise blew off and forgot while watching are shed in a different light and all the episodes just manage to come together to flush out the entire world and it's story.
What got me for this was the ice cream thing. Growing up Bojack probably just assumed his mom was concerned about her figure because of pregnancy weight, not that her father literally told her she couldn’t eat ice cream because it was for boys.
This scene so perfectly encapsulates the feeling of still loving someone who hurt you. You can see the shift in his emotions towards her on his face when she finally recognizes him. This scene mentally and physically hurt me so much (lawsuits pending).
One of the most bittersweet scenes in the show. Despite the pain she has put Bojack through, he took pity on her and comforted her in her confused state.
This scene reminds me of when he cuddles with her as a child as she is blackout drunk. The only times they shared a connection and she wasnt even conscious. Bojack finally does something good for her and is genuine, he doesn't do it for praise or for himself, cause his mother is barely there mentally.
@@SaltpeterTaffy It was the mom who didn't give her ice cream Joseph just also happened to believe their ideas because of the time even crackerjack could be seen thinking it is ridiculous she asked for ice cream
This scene always makes me cry. Even though she hurt him so badly, and she honestly didn’t deserve his sympathy, it’s still so sweet to see him give her one last thoughtful goodbye. Leaving her with an image she always wanted. Something her younger self wishes she could do. Be with her brother again, eat ice cream, etc. And as someone who has a grandfather with dementia that is steadily getting worse, this really hits home.
If you think about it, this was the only time Beatrice ever showed any vulnerability with Bojack. His whole life she was this stoic, cruel, and arrogant mother, but to see her scared and afraid was probably eye-opening for him. Doesn’t change what she did, but he realizes that this is probably the only time she will ever acknowledge him with anything other than a cold glare
This scene is really important to me, because it shows that Bojack didn't become like his mother, whereas Bojack's mother became like her father. Allow me to explain; in this episode, we saw Beatrice's dad take away her doll, her "baby", and the way the scenes are cut, it's clear that when Beatrice refuses to let Henrietta hold Hollyhock (so that she doesn't "grow attached") is meant to convey that Beatrice did the same thing her father did; it carries the same thematic importance with both Beatrice and Henrietta crying out for their baby. Meanwhile, we learn early on in this season that Bojack wants his mother to recognize him so that he can tell her off, and we learn in "Free Churro" how Beatrice never, literally never, showed Bojack any kind of kindness or consideration; even the one thing he thought might hold some kind of meaning *spoilers for season 5* "I see you", turns out to just have been his mother reading "ICU", and that even the reason why the episode is named "Free Churro", is because the stranger who gave Bojack a free churro because of his mother's death, showed Bojack more kindness than his mother ever did. And now, in this scene, where Beatrice recognizes Bojack, he chooses instead to give her a happy moment. And he has even more reason to tell her off now than before; she drugged Hollyhock, but he still chooses to try and give her peace
Joseph was nicer than Beatrice, he was just a man of his time. He legit wanted his daughter with a decent guy who would take care of her. He never spoke as cruelly to Beatrice as she did to Bojack. He didnt hit Beatrice the way Butterscotch hit Bojack. They dont show how he ended up turning out in the later years. But he did provide Butterscotch a good job to support his family. It would have been interesting to see his interactions with a young Bojack before he passed or what became of Honey. He seemed like he would have admitted regretting having Honey lobotomized because he trusted the science behind it and it took her. Its also telling that Joseph thought Butterscotch was too much of a piece of shit to run his company to the point where he'd rather sell it to Japanese investors than let him have it.
@@mizv4043 Just because Joseph wasn't as verbally abusive to Beatrice, doesn't mean he was "just a man of his time"; he literally threaten to lobotomise her if she didn't stop crying over him burning all her stuff. He's not "a man of his time"; that's just his excuse to behave cruelly towards the members of his family. If Joseph's behavior was normal, the show would be filled with people like Bojack. He also didn't care about Beatrice marrying "a decent guy", he wanted her to marry as part of a business deal. It was just cruel irony that the guy was hinted at being someone Beatrice could see herself settling down with. I think it's very telling that we DON'T see Bojack interracting with or even talk that much about his grandfather; makes it clear that the guy wasn't a part of Bojack's life. Whether that was Beatrice's, Joseph's, or both's decision however, we don't know.
@@Matheehe didn’t threaten to lobotomize her, he just said “you don’t wanna end up like your mother now, do you?” He said that because Beatrice’s mother had ‘fits of hysteria’ and put his daughters life in danger, we’re just seeing the memory from Beatrice’s perspective, and Beatrice probably thought he was gonna lobotomize her but he wasn’t going too, because he realized his wife was a shell of the woman she was, so why would he do that?? Joseph wanted Beatrice to marry a rich good man that could help his business. Joseph even hired butterscotch because he knew it was the only way Beatrice could get money and be happy. And anyways how could bojack know about Beatrice’s brother playing the piano anyways?? I haven’t watched the full tv show but Joseph probably had good intentions for his family, the time was just not good
Even with a gun to my head I literally could not praise Wendie Malick highly enough for her performance in this scene. Perfectly conveys just how disoriented and terrified Beatrice was in this moment, and then recaptures a final sense of serenity as she reminisces through her tortured mind with her son. This scene makes me feel a lot of things and her performance far and away is the biggest contributor to that
I don't think he forgave her. And I don't think she deserves forgiveness. He's just over hating her. Todd was right. He's no longer at a point in his life where he can blame his upbringing for everything. Hurting her at her most fragile and defenseless stage would only hurt him back. Almost having Hollyhock as a child probably helped put that into perspective.
When Beatrice has that little smile when she sees her brother Crackerjack, alive and well again playing the piano like he always did. Before the war took him away forever.
When he asks her if she can taste the ice cream, she says “oh Bojack, it’s so…” and you can see her frowning and looking sideways because she actually doesn’t know how the ice cream tastes. She’s just playing along with Bojack, when she finishes with “delicious”.
This was one of the most satisfying moments in the show, which says a lot. Throughout the entire season, BoJack wants to give her a rant on how despicable and awful she is, but cuz of her dementia, her not recognizing him pissed him off cuz he couldn't revenge himself. And now, she finally recognizes him in a long time, he finally has her where he wants her, a perfect moment to get everything from your chest, and yet... he just can't. He can't possibly bring himself to it, seeing her like that
Brett the Hitman I think that it's possible he doesn't forgive her, but instead realized that being shitty to someone that's shitty still makes you just as shitty as them
I don't think she tried to kill Hollyhock. I think she liked Hollyhock as much as she could like anyone. Remember, she even told Hollyhock that she could be as beautiful as Beatrice was if she lost some weight. Cruel? Certainly, but for Beatrice that's a high compliment. No, Beatrice truly believed that she was "helping" Hollyhock by giving her those diet pills. She even said that the coffee was an old family recipe. Beatrice was trying to help Hollyhock and it almost killed her.
I think, that y forgiving her he removed the hatred within him that prevented him from keeping good relationships. Though, he probably did not forgive her comletely and so a little hatred stayed within him. Horses don't change over a single moment. There may be a long journey ahead of him that leads to true forgiveness.
The Sugarman/Horseman saga is probably one of the best depictions of generational trauma I’ve seen on TV. Beatrice and Bojack became terrible people in life, but the audience can come to an understanding of just HOW they got to this point and what they went through. Both of them hurt people because they have been hurt.
As someone with a... less than optimal mother, this scene spoke to my heart and soul. Pure, unfiltered grace from BoJack's part. The compassion an abusive mother didn't deserve, the kindness a broken son didn't know he had.
Liamjm well Hollyhock is decent only because of her seven hundred gay dads. Had she been raised the way Bojack was she would've turned into more of a Sara Lynn
When I first watched this scene, I thought it was sweet. Then I read a comment under another video that BoJack actually fucks up by asking her if she can taste the icecream. Beatrice having never had icecream before, can't mentally fill in the blank. She becomes aware again, the illusion shattered, somewhat conscious of what's happening, that BoJack is lying to make her feel better. And so she does the same, saying it's delicious. This is the last time the two characters spoke. BoJack likely left feeling he got closure. Beatrice died knowing her son tried to do well in the end, but still abandoned her.
Really recontextualizes his use of the f-word earlier. He thought that's what he wanted to say. And maybe he still did, but instead he chose to grow into a better person than he was before.
This was the first time the show made me cry. BoJack comforting his mother despite her years of abuse, and her not even know what icecream tastes like, just hoping it’s delicious
I’m glad bojack comforted her in the nursing home. She had a hard life. Even though she was neglectful and abusive to bojack, he did it anyways because secretly, he just wanted her to be happy and proud of him. She abused him when he needed her the most, and he comforted her when she needed him the most. So sad
This entire episode was such a punch to the stomach but this final scene? Absolutely heartbreaking. We get to see the side of BoJack who can't really leave his confused old mother without putting her at peace first. But then he asks her if she can taste the ice cream and the illusion is gone. How could he know that that one question would have so much weight behind it? Do we ever truly know anybody? Because both of these characters in this episode showed us that we don't and we can't.
I like to stay optimistic and believe that even though Beatrice knew that Bojack was lying about the ice cream, she still pretended that Bojack deluded her. Two scummy people who hated each other their entire lives do a small act of kindness for each other before one of them goes. Bojack tried to give his mom one last happy moment despite everything she did and Beatrice made Bojack feel like he helped her out instead of making him feel like a burden despite treating him like one his entire life. _...Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk..._
@@simonwoods7112 I love season 4; it's definitely my favorite, but season 3 was fantastic too. I especially liked the season-long ridiculous Chekhov's Gun of the spaghetti strainers. The payoff was great! "Spaghetti or not, here I come!"
The saddest thing about this scene is that when he asks her if she can taste the ice cream, he unknowingly breaks the illusion.
Yeah....
Thank you! I always knew there was something else going on but could never put my finger on it!!
Its kinda sweet cause she plays along with it she accepts her situation and bojacks comfort her. the only truly loving moment they have that we have seen with the 2
I didn't notice that!! This makes the ending sad again because at the end, her mom realized she never had what she wanted...
How does he break the illusion ?
Props to bojack for this. He could of just left her in her misery. But despite his awful childhood he did one thing he really didn't have to and leave her with a good memory... Really proud of him in this episode
BebopEgg well said, definitely a great episode
Except he didn't. His mother was never allowed to eat ice cream. Look at her face right before she says "delicious." She's lying to him, one last time. Bojack doesn't know of course, he's trying to do the right ting, but that one innocent question "can you taste it?" destroys it all.
I don't think she's willfully lying: while slowly losing the pieces of her old memories, she really believes what bojack's saying to put her mind at peace. In this piteous fantasy, she can FINALLY taste that so longed for ice-cream. :'(
+Marcos Darbyshire you don't "wake up" from dementia. Once it's there it's there for good. From this episode we got a look into beatrice's mind and saw how the dementia was effecting her. Things that didn't make sense were happening in her mind, while she was still in the moment. The ice cream question is what didn't make sense to her, but her dementia made it make sense. In fact, Bojack inadvertently helped his mom do something she always wanted to do, even if it was fake.
youre kind of a douchebag marcos. and personally, i think youre reading way too much into her facial expression.
"Mommy's tired, BoJack. Tell me a story."
I know you made this comment five months ago. But it's killing me. When did she say this how is it significant to this wonderful scene
alkmatraz smiddt oh shittttttt.... thank u
this comment has me on the verge of tears aha
"Back in the 90's, i was in a very famous TV show"
Once upon a time
This scene finally convinced me completely that Bojack can truly change
Pol McGee I agree
Yeah, but if they have him change, then there won’t be a reason to keep making bojack horseman.
I don't agree, walkingcubkid. Redemption arcs are an incredibly compelling part of television, and I feel that's in the cards for BoJack.
walkingcubkid I mean, yeah. It has to end at some point.
Genindraz true, just hope it doesn’t have a super dark ending where bojack dies or somebody else important to him dies :/
My heart shattered into pieces during this scene. This season was so intense.
Enrique L.B. The show just gets better and better!
rkid Absolutely!!! Cant wait for season 5 now.
Enrique L.B. went into the bathroom cuz I didn't want to my family asking why I was crying
It really was I know how hard it is when someone that close to you is like that.
I was like 3k
This scene hit me the hardest from all of the new season because I don't ever want to be in a situation where my own mother won't recognize me or my sister. I almost cried when she "woke up" and recognized BoJack and she was visibly scared that she didn't know where she was.
My nana had Alzheimer and it's absolutely heart breaking... Thankfully she was very sweet and nothing like Beatrice, but it's sad. It really is.
I'm sorry to hear that.
Kyoot Life is sad. Why do you think so many of us commit suicide?
My grandma is in the final (?) stages of Alzheimer’s and let me tell you this season hit me hard. It’s too much, man...
I can't help but feel like she doesn't believe his lies of where they are...and she lies to him. Both of them have lied to each other their whole lives, and even to now they still lie
This was the happiest ending that Bojack could have provided for his mother. Even after all she had pit him through he still did care for her at the very end.
It's most definitely not a happy ending. She was never allowed to eat ice cream. Look at her face right before she says "delicious." They're two shattered people, lying to each other and lying to themselves.
It's most definitely not a happy ending. She was never allowed to eat ice cream. Look at her face right before she says "delicious." They're two shattered people, lying to each other and lying to themselves.
Gianni Verschueren It seemed bittersweet to me. He really could've told her off, but he attempted to make her happy before he left even if she saw through the ice cream thing.
Well what else could've he have done to appease her? She had nothing left of her mind or sanity at this point. He could've just told her the truth and left her distraught but instead he sweetened the story to keep her happy.
She didn't see through the ice cream thing. Ice cream brought back a painful memory, of her father. She sees the ice cream but was afraid to enjoy it. Like a child who's afraid to touch the stove after being burned.
Holy shit Bojack honestly has one of the most compelling arcs of any TV show ever. Bea ruined his life, from the day of his birth to poisoning Hollyhock. But he still did the right thing and helped her.
mwjones99 he didn't help her. He put her in a shitty fucking environment, left to die. And she has dementia, she didn't mean to poison his.. (spoiler) Half sister? It's all sorts of fucked up.
Erin Miller How is it fucked up? Do you really think Bojack would be able to live with his mother in his own home with the way he is? It was the best he could do for her. That's life. It's bitter.
The Pious "the best he could do for her" - is asking deliberately for the worst room available. Sure.
Life can be bitter. It's what you make it. And bojack made it very, very bitter for his mother. As revenge I suppose. He could have made sure she was left in good hands! But I agree, bojack can't even take care of himself, let alone an elder with dementia.
Almost makes you forget he tried to have (consensual/legal) sex with his (married) best friend's daughter
Yeah she was the worst all telling him it’s his fault her life was ruined
have anyone noticed that every season the episode 11 is where the heaviest emotional stuff happens? bojack's bad trip, him and penny almost making out, sarah lynn's death... and now this episode
Vitinho Lins and then episode 12 usually sets up the next season with secretariat, the movie being filmed, bojacks daughter and now philbert
The way this episode was portrayed was so different from what I predicted. I thought it was gonna be bojack and his mother throughout the whole episode, but instead we got more answers from the past, which in the end, I’m kinda glad it went like this
And now bojack having these hallucinations and choking Gina in season 5.. oh yea spoiler alert
Ohhh ho ho the one in season 5 tho. As the labradores say, that one was Rrrrrooough!
"Him and Penny almost making out"
Oh you poor innocent soul
This becomes a lot more powerful when you consider that Bojack doesn't know about Beatrice's past in as much detail as the audience. His perception of her is solely based on the abusive and traumatic youth and the consequences on his personal life.
And yet, at this moment of opportune vulnerability, where Bojack has all the power and all the reasons, decides to comfort her - describing a most beautiful scene.
I work with the elderly so I end up seeing stuff like this very often (apart from the "see you never"). If sons, daughters or even old friends aren't there to reassure them I sit down and talk with confused dementia patients, playing along and doing what BoJack does here. I've had to pretend that it's WWII or that I'm somebody's lost son or had to reassure people in their nineties that their parents are just at work and haven't been dead for decades.
Out of the entire show, the Bea storyline has probably hit me the hardest. Despite being a cartoon horse I've never seen a more accurate portrayal of dementia in a character, and her moment of clarity as well as BoJack's kindness to a woman who treated him like garbage just...
"That's too much, man!"
This is heartbreaking.
The Mad Queen I agree. It made me feel things I didn’t think were possible - not just for BoJack but for Bea as well. The portrayal of dementia is humbling as well as humanizing.
I don't know who you are, but thank you for doing this. My literal biggest fear (besides undergoing surgery) is that I will develop dementia or lose my memory some day and I'm only 23. I don't know how I'd live if that happened to me.
So, on behalf of everyone who has family, friends, or people who suffer/suffered from dementia or Alzheimer's, thank you for giving them a moment's peace and making them feel good, even if it's all a lie.
Thank you for what you do. It's so difficult for my family to take care of my grandma and her dementia, it brings me some comfort to know there's people like you in the world who care and who make their lives a bit better.
Yep. Right before my great grandpa passed, he was really far gone. My grandmother (his daughter) was talking to him a few days before and he didn’t recognize her and asked who she was. She told him her name was Bev, and that she was his daughter, but his response was still “oh, I have a daughter named Bevvie!” He didn’t know who she was anymore, because in his mind his “Bevvie” was still a kid. Just heartbreaking.
Holy shit
1:06
“We’re listening to your brother play the piano” the only way Bojack could know about that was if Beatrice told Bojack about her childhood
Likely she did. Or his Grandpa, although thy probably didn't meet that often...
But he was never told about the ice cream.
Well, that Firefly has an interesting connection to the Horseman family. I suspect that's why
Yeah that with her whole family and the lake, cabin, fireflies and ice cream sounds amazing. I bet that’s her ultimate happy place
In the View from Halfway Down he sees Crackerjack and refers to him as his “amazing uncle that he never met or lived up to”
I cried on this part..
His mom was never allowed to have ice cream when she was younger and she paused when saying yes because of that. She doesn't know what it tastes like. BoJack is showing signs of change here too. He wanted to tell her off for so long, but when it finally came he did a good thing.
Such a great season. Season 3 left on that hanger and this one wraps up a lot better. I will be content waiting for the next season now.
And that begs the question in morality.
the character development is great on bojack
Looking back through the show, it's clear what the main theme of Bojacks family is: Neglect.
Beatrice's father and grandfather never were taught or learned how to show compassion and comfort those who need it. When Butterjack died, he refused to support his wife, then when Beatrice got Scarlet Fever and burned her doll, he failed to comfort her as well when she needed it most. When Bojack was born, niether Beatrice nor Butterscotch never once showed love or compassion to him.
When Henrietta got pregnant, Beatrice thought she was supporting her, by paying her tuition and setting her life up, but when she took the baby, she neglected her the comfort she really may have needed.
Bojack, instead of giving her the "Fuck you" he wanted, comforted her, showing the love and compassion that was never there before, resulting in him ending the cycle of neglect.
Isaiah Williams I think something good about Bojack is them showing that mental health and therapy in general isn’t a bad thing. If honey had been allowed actual psychological help and not a lobotomy, bea’s life could’ve been vastly different because she’d still have a mom. If Bea had acknowledged that she was an abusive mom or her and butterscotch had a bad marriage they could’ve gone to therapy. Heck, even in the 60s if your wife went to therapy the therapist told your husband all the details and that was enough to send them off to be declared insane whereas nowadays they have confidentiality agreements.
Deep inside, Bojack is a good person. Unlike the rest of his family, there's still some goodness inside him
Funny thing is that Bojack just couldn't end the cycle that's why his life is what it is, that's why almost every single person who comes across him and survives just don't want to talk to him anymore, he is so damaged that even when he tries he hurts those around him, he traumatize them.
And even more ironic is that Beatrice actually broke the cycle for Henrietta and Hollyhock, and when Hollyhock tried to reconnect with them she almost dies and then when she tries to keep in contact with Bojack she learns just how broken he truly is and just can't be around him anymore.
@@hasturthekinginyellow5003 So I guess the abusive cycle truly ended with Hollyhock. Especially since she decided to cut Bojack out of her life.
So sad
The hesitation and Beatrice sort of sagging before she said delicious was heartbreaking. She never got ice cream and just decided to settle with "delicious" to describe it, I think.
As others have said, he unknowingly broke the illusion there. Her eyes tell she pretty much snapped back to reality and had another moment of clarity. She understood where she was, but continued to play along to indulge BoJack in thinking he was making her feel good. The roles kind of switched at the very end.
As sad as this scene is, i cant stop imagining how "the fireflies are dancing in the sky" and "the crickets are chirping" are going to look like in bojack's world lol
PPFFT-
Both penultimate episodes of Season 3 and Season 4 end with Bojack sitting with two influential women in his life, one a daughter figure, the other his mother. The season 3 ep. 11 ending has Bojack monologuing to Sarah Lynn about the importance of the single moment they're sharing, and how nothing else, past or future, really matter. Sarah Lynn can't really appreciate the moment with Bojack, because she's passed on. He sits there talking to nobody but himself, and in some ways the monologue is just him trying to reassure himself and his own insecurities, and trying to absolve himself of how he's acted in the past. This time, with his mother as his audience, and aware of his presence for the first time all season, he's able to reassure her in a way he never did with Sarah Lynn. This monologue is less about him and more about him giving some comfort to his mother. But the words of Season 3 still hold true. At that moment, with him and his mom together, nothing else matters. The past that they've shared, all the ugly, bitter moments, none of it matters. What matters is this moment that he provided for her. A single moment of peace. It's sort of redemptive considering last season. It's the most selfless thing Bojack has done. He was giving his mother a necessary illusion. Beautiful show.
I wouldn't consider Sarah Lynn to be influential on Bojack's life. Sarah Lynn didn't really effect Bojack's life.
Knife Cat r u for real?
+Plasmabolt64 Yes I am. Besides from the times we see her on screen Bojack doesn't give a shit about her. He doesn't think about her, call her, or anything. Sarah Lynn never effected Bojack's life until he wanted her to drugs with him. Sarah Lynn, just like Herb, has always been a side character to Bojack. They never gained importance until he wanted them to. It wasn't like Kelsey where he desperately sought her approval, or Charlotte whom he wanted to start a family with, or princess caroline who has always been there for him, and etc. Sarah Lynn was just another chapter in Bojack's book until he realized what a shitty person he's been to her when she died in his arms.
Knife Cat oh I see from the way you said it, you made it sound like she LITERALLY didn’t affect him at all (including her death and how he felt about it)
"A necessary illusion."
I'm glad you said illusion, not trick. A trick is something a whore does for money.
i fucking tears coming out from my eyes like a waterfall
Wimp
We took care of my wife's mother at home the last year of her life as dementia and Parkinson's destroyed her for the last time. She hadn't recognized any of us for at least 3-4 years, so we simply kept her comfortable and tried to make her happy as we could. About 4 months before she passed, my son and I were sitting with her at the kitchen table (my wife was at work) as she fiddled with some kids toys we had spread out. Out of the blue, she said both of our names and suddenly become cognizant of who she was and - more importantly - who we were. She asked for her daughter and we excitedly tried to call my wife's work to get her home for this incredible happening. However, horribly, it lasted only a few moments and she was gone again. It was one of the saddest moments of my life and this brought it all back. Incredible show.
When my grandpa had dementia and couldn't remember his own wife, I came to visit from California for Christmas. As soon as I entered, he looked at me and did a double take, and said "I thought you were in California, what are you doin here?". He somehow recognized me and remembered where I was. It was evident that he wasn't all there, but I could still see the sparks of him inside.
I wouldn't wish dementia on my worst enemy.
And when you thought this episode couldn't be anymore tragic, you realise the episode's title is time's arrow
That last quote from Beatrice, made me think that she knew what was happening and in order to make Bojack, his son, leave with a calm conscious decided to go along with Bojack set up of her being in her old town.
This is one of those scenes where Beatrice could show Bojack her love, by accepting her last moments of her life where going to be spent in the worst room with the view to the garbage. But knowing that Bojack would be in some sort of peace, was a thing that made her accept her fate.
That's why that Vanilla Ice cream tasted so... Delicious.
Other commenters said that it's because "her parents never let her have ice cream, only sugar on a lemon"
So when he mentions the ice cream it breaks her illusion and she still plays along
How in the world did this show not get nominated for a single Emmy?
Awards are always for the popular show. People like superficial, shallow trash. That's just the world we live in.
It got nominated once...
@@Lurdiakbut they gave it to Rick and Morty... While bojack horseman nomination was for one of the BEST episodes of TV history
Because it's animation.
"your brother is playing piano"
Yes i don t understand... she don t even have brother wtf
@@Evergreeee Crackerjack
A.L.C she does fym
@@Evergreeee He died in WWII. She and her mother loved him, and his death is a key moment of the whole generational trauma affecting people so far removed as Hollyhock today, So yea.
@@Rodrigo_Vega In WW2 actually
This scene is what finally made me actually really fear something. I'm not scared to die, I'm not scared of monsters or anything like that, but this...this scares me. Dementia runs in my family and I now live in fear of the day I will be this
Medical technology and research is advancing at an amazing rate. Hopefully soon enough amazing minds will be able to treat or cure it. Best wishes and take care out there.
Hawk Guy agreed
Best wishes for you and keep living your life the best way possible.
Not in this society. There is no money to be made from curing something.
Nothing's set in stone yet.
This scene made me legit cry. Bojack's act of kindness was so powerful and unexpected. It hit me right in the feels.
Judging by the top comments, people really don’t understand the weight of this scene. He doesn’t do this because ‘deep down he’s really empathetic’ or ‘he has a soft spot’. It’s much more tragic. He built up all of his resentment leading to the one moment he could tell his mom how much damage she caused, but once the moment came, all he wanted to do was play pretend about the childhood he wish he had, and the mom he wish he had. He never felt love growing up, and he would rather recreate an imaginary sense of safety for a fleeting moment than have retribution
This scene hits me like a truck... I cried... When boujack finally has a chance to get his well deserved revenge... He choose to confort his morther... I don't know if i could ever act like that
Back in the 90s, I was in a very famous TV show
XDXD DUMBKID I’m Bojack the horse, Bojack, Bojack the horse, don’t act like you don’t know
I guess I'm just trying to make you understand that I'm more horse than a man, or I'm more man than a horse.
BOJACK.
Wooooo
Boxer versus Raptor.
Nananananananam
It's so tragic that she was so afraid of ending up like her mother, who lost her mind due to depresion and abuse... and then she herself lost her mind slowly, naturally due to an illness
I guess deep down Bojack is a good person
yeah i changed my opinion on him
There is no deep down, we are all the things that we do, and he did a good thing for once
Deep down Bojack's a selfish prick
But deeper down, he's a prick who tries to be better
Todd told Bojack in the first episode in Season 1:
"...even though you don't want anyone to know it, you secretly have a good heart."
good horsey
Funny is, that Bojack, who promised that when his mother remembers who he is, he'll tell her how much he hates her for everything now comforts her in the end
In my opinion, this was the strongest episode of the season, and Bojack's mother was a character I started to pity but look at with a different understanding. It's pretty clear that the shitty trauma his mother and father expressed to him is the reason he's as he is now, but besides that just getting a glimpse of Beatrice's life was absolutely heartbreaking.
(I doubt anyone here hasn't seen this episode and the rest of the season but if you haven't I'm going to be uses examples aka spoilers)
Her mother became a shell of a person when she was just a child, easily diminishing any marital figure in her life so all she was exposed to was the skewed perspective on what a woman should and shouldn't be according to her father. I doubt he didn't love her, as evident when she got sick and his reaction, however it wasn't as though he was so keen on letting her be an individual. It wasn't until she got her masters degree that she really began to understand the world and garner her own perspective. She was someone who genuinely believed in self-expression and progressive ideals, which are both fantastic character traits. And yet, still there was influence deeply sewn from her childhood that effected her and how she treated people.
She hit it off with Bojack's father, has Bojack, then proceeds to lose this idealistic nature she once held. It can be argued that this is just a fact of life as people grow older and jaded from negative experiences throughout life, however this attitude was projected from her onto her son and effectively scarred him for the rest of his life. She insulted his confidence, his interests and passions. She made him feel worthless over his career choices. And yet, her life had been twisted in such nasty ways that she refused to make any changes to it whatsoever(divorcing her husband for example even though the two continually made each other worse and worse).
I think what really makes this scene hit harder than any other in the season, was how on a surface level(let's say you're hearing only Bojack's perspective of her) she seemed and sounded like such a terrible mother. She verbally abused her son throughout his life and even overdosed his half-sister(then daughter). And yet knowing more of her life and story, it highlights a true fact about people -- no matter how cruel or evil someone can be, they're still a human.
This isn't a justification for what vile acts they've done, but just a simple note to keep in mind. Maybe at that moment, seeing his mother in a wheelchair helplessly asking questions beside the dusty window had him realize this. And maybe that's why he told her all of those sweet memories. It was definitely a bittersweet moment for both of them, but also a point that proved that no matter what shit you've seen and lived through, you're still a human that only means you can become better eventually.
It's a scary thought to wonder if you'll ever be like Beatrice; once a vibrant person with high hopes and faith in the future only to become but a shell of those dreams. And to spread your disdain for everything towards impressionable people who were just life you at one point. And I think it's terrifying that you could be in her situation, left in a cold room alone by people who were supposed to care for you but lost their desire because of your own actions. Bojack putting his mother her was the result of what I just said, but what he last said to her was from him seeing beyond what she'd done to him for years and being mindful of the situation she was in. Yeah she was shitty, but being shitty to someone who you consider shitty just makes you shittier.
@Blackwolf MGTOW "no matter how cruel or evil someone can be, they're still a human.
This isn't a justification for what vile acts they've done, but just a simple note to keep in mind."
Did you even read the reply?
Thank you for this comment.
For me this is one of the best scenes from all time, the ilustration of dementia in the show is perfectly made to look how cruel this disease is, trully touching how bojack choses to have compashion for his mother one last time after all.
You know, Bojack would have had EVERY reason to walk away forever from his mother, and leave her to rot in the filthy nursing home. None of us would have batted an eye for it, considering all that Beatrice put him through. But he didn't. He stopped, and painted a beautiful picture for what was left of her deteriorating mind. That right there, is a huge step forward for progress to Bojack. The 'fuck you' for this season was more a 'fuck you' to his past and his trauma--and maybe in a way, a fuck you to his old self.
SneakyLittlePirate I cried as soon as I read the last two lines.
This is the first time I really cried during a Tv show. It hurts to see some you hated since her first introduction, but through flashbacks and subtle details, you can see what went wrong. Bojack could have left her there but instead, he told her one last thing and let us the viewer know that he forgives her in his own way. This is a beautiful show and deserves all of its recognition.
Im not crying you're crying
No I'm crying, I mean you're crying
To the very end he still wanted his mother to love him.
Yes
Bojack really had no obligation to do what he did here. But he did. You can tell he wanted to do the opposite and tell her off like he said, but he chose against it.
It's a heart wrenching moment of positive character growth.
Agreed
Albeit subtly, I saw it as finally forgiving her for what she did. He knew she wasn’t in her right mind anymore
He finally got to see himself make his mother happy with his acting.
I started weeping at this scene
There is a stage in dementia called paradoxical lucidity. It happens in the very last stage, just weeks or days before the sufferer dies. This surprisingly common occurance gives the patient an understanding of where they are, who they are, and decent access to their formerly "lost memories". Family members can often mistake this for their dementia being cured.
This is one of the most genuinely depressing things a dementia carer can witness.
The fact that she still doesn't know what ice cream tastes like is so fucking heartbreaking
"Can you taste the ice cream, Mom?"
This line *always* fucks me up. Bojack gave Beatrice the one kindness shes never had: he asked her what *she* thought.
*And Beatrice has never tasted ice cream.*
The irony is that BoJack has every reason to leave her but he never did. He got his independence but after she lost all her money thanks to her husband BoJack never left her side and took up supporting her. Even after almost killing Hollyhock he still decided to support her. People said its because BoJack could change but after the final season its likely that Beatrice was the only person who truly knew him and was still holding out for that jacket moment. Even at the funeral he was hoping it would come.
Bojack finally grew in character and is finally, even a tiny bit, happier. This episode hit me like a ton of bricks. Well done creators and writers, well fucking done.
Bojack inherited his Dad's novelist side. He is quite the good storyteller. Or at least, pretty good at describing stuff.
Will Arnett is criminally underrated as a drama actor
The ZombieMan He deserves some sort of award for his performance in this show in my opinion.
Slush G İ agree
@@slushg3326 He did get an Annie award for his performance in “Free Churro”
i think beatice realized at the end that he was lying to her because she never tasted ice cream and so his description of the past didn’t fit with her memories. but at that moment, just like bojack decided to do one last act of kindness to her, she did the same and lied to say that it was delicious because she has no other descriptions for it
The moment she recognizes him the tone of her voice sounded like she needs him or misses him
Honestly, good for bojack for trying to make her situation just a little bit better. So many people, including myself have gone through crappy childhoods, cause parents like beatrice and when you have all that trauma created by these type of people, it's soooooooo hard to be the better person! Like SO hard! You can't help but think why should I be nice? After all I've been through by you? Why should I be the bigger person? When do I get to feel better? But....it's shockingly possible to build a better relationship with those who have hurt you or at least move on from them. I'm glad I can say, that after alot of anger, sadness, understanding my own others trauma amd reliving alot of trauma trying to rebuild that bridge, I finally have the good relationship I've always wanted with my mom. And has been to better with her own toxic tendencies over the last 2 years.
As someone who’s grandmother suffers dementia, Beatrice’s arc in this season really made me bawl. This was done so well.
I never cried so much in my life, just some here and there, never actually cried in some series or any media um general, but that episode, this freaking good scene made me cry, this show is so good that I can’t even describe!
If you want another appreciation for such a fantastic show, after you bingewatch all the episodes, binge them again in reverse order. You'll pick up subtle nuances and realizations about how deep foreshadowing actually goes throughout the entire life of the show. Phrases and mentions that you otherwise blew off and forgot while watching are shed in a different light and all the episodes just manage to come together to flush out the entire world and it's story.
What got me for this was the ice cream thing. Growing up Bojack probably just assumed his mom was concerned about her figure because of pregnancy weight, not that her father literally told her she couldn’t eat ice cream because it was for boys.
It's so sad. Heartbroken people raise a heartbroken child whom becomes a heartbroken adult. And the cycle continues
This scene so perfectly encapsulates the feeling of still loving someone who hurt you. You can see the shift in his emotions towards her on his face when she finally recognizes him. This scene mentally and physically hurt me so much (lawsuits pending).
One of the most bittersweet scenes in the show. Despite the pain she has put Bojack through, he took pity on her and comforted her in her confused state.
both voice actors do such an amazing job conveying this scene i'm not crying youre crying
This scene reminds me of when he cuddles with her as a child as she is blackout drunk. The only times they shared a connection and she wasnt even conscious. Bojack finally does something good for her and is genuine, he doesn't do it for praise or for himself, cause his mother is barely there mentally.
:(((
Taking care of my formerly abusive father this clip hits me hard as hell.
Luckily I'm not gonna go through that path mines is already old as hell and most likely doesn't have many years left
@@ejosjek52.87 Neither did mine, he died of COVID in Feb 2021.
The last part got me because she was trying to remember the taste of ice cream but couldn't because she never had ice cream due to her anal father 😢
bruh wut
The final assault of Joseph Sugarman on the family from beyond the grave. :(
@@SaltpeterTaffy It was the mom who didn't give her ice cream Joseph just also happened to believe their ideas because of the time even crackerjack could be seen thinking it is ridiculous she asked for ice cream
This scene always makes me cry. Even though she hurt him so badly, and she honestly didn’t deserve his sympathy, it’s still so sweet to see him give her one last thoughtful goodbye. Leaving her with an image she always wanted. Something her younger self wishes she could do. Be with her brother again, eat ice cream, etc. And as someone who has a grandfather with dementia that is steadily getting worse, this really hits home.
If you think about it, this was the only time Beatrice ever showed any vulnerability with Bojack. His whole life she was this stoic, cruel, and arrogant mother, but to see her scared and afraid was probably eye-opening for him. Doesn’t change what she did, but he realizes that this is probably the only time she will ever acknowledge him with anything other than a cold glare
damn that ending song always hits me like an arrow
I am a grown man. I wept at this scene :(
This scene is really important to me, because it shows that Bojack didn't become like his mother, whereas Bojack's mother became like her father. Allow me to explain; in this episode, we saw Beatrice's dad take away her doll, her "baby", and the way the scenes are cut, it's clear that when Beatrice refuses to let Henrietta hold Hollyhock (so that she doesn't "grow attached") is meant to convey that Beatrice did the same thing her father did; it carries the same thematic importance with both Beatrice and Henrietta crying out for their baby.
Meanwhile, we learn early on in this season that Bojack wants his mother to recognize him so that he can tell her off, and we learn in "Free Churro" how Beatrice never, literally never, showed Bojack any kind of kindness or consideration; even the one thing he thought might hold some kind of meaning *spoilers for season 5* "I see you", turns out to just have been his mother reading "ICU", and that even the reason why the episode is named "Free Churro", is because the stranger who gave Bojack a free churro because of his mother's death, showed Bojack more kindness than his mother ever did. And now, in this scene, where Beatrice recognizes Bojack, he chooses instead to give her a happy moment. And he has even more reason to tell her off now than before; she drugged Hollyhock, but he still chooses to try and give her peace
Joseph was nicer than Beatrice, he was just a man of his time. He legit wanted his daughter with a decent guy who would take care of her. He never spoke as cruelly to Beatrice as she did to Bojack. He didnt hit Beatrice the way Butterscotch hit Bojack. They dont show how he ended up turning out in the later years. But he did provide Butterscotch a good job to support his family. It would have been interesting to see his interactions with a young Bojack before he passed or what became of Honey. He seemed like he would have admitted regretting having Honey lobotomized because he trusted the science behind it and it took her. Its also telling that Joseph thought Butterscotch was too much of a piece of shit to run his company to the point where he'd rather sell it to Japanese investors than let him have it.
@@mizv4043 Just because Joseph wasn't as verbally abusive to Beatrice, doesn't mean he was "just a man of his time"; he literally threaten to lobotomise her if she didn't stop crying over him burning all her stuff. He's not "a man of his time"; that's just his excuse to behave cruelly towards the members of his family. If Joseph's behavior was normal, the show would be filled with people like Bojack.
He also didn't care about Beatrice marrying "a decent guy", he wanted her to marry as part of a business deal. It was just cruel irony that the guy was hinted at being someone Beatrice could see herself settling down with.
I think it's very telling that we DON'T see Bojack interracting with or even talk that much about his grandfather; makes it clear that the guy wasn't a part of Bojack's life. Whether that was Beatrice's, Joseph's, or both's decision however, we don't know.
@@Matheehe didn’t threaten to lobotomize her, he just said “you don’t wanna end up like your mother now, do you?” He said that because Beatrice’s mother had ‘fits of hysteria’ and put his daughters life in danger, we’re just seeing the memory from Beatrice’s perspective, and Beatrice probably thought he was gonna lobotomize her but he wasn’t going too, because he realized his wife was a shell of the woman she was, so why would he do that?? Joseph wanted Beatrice to marry a rich good man that could help his business. Joseph even hired butterscotch because he knew it was the only way Beatrice could get money and be happy.
And anyways how could bojack know about Beatrice’s brother playing the piano anyways??
I haven’t watched the full tv show but Joseph probably had good intentions for his family, the time was just not good
I was so deep into this scene that I bursted into tears when he starts telling they are at the lake house
"What a funny and whimsical looking show with talking animals! I bet this will be awesome to smoke and fall asleep to."
Then I got into it.
Even with a gun to my head I literally could not praise Wendie Malick highly enough for her performance in this scene. Perfectly conveys just how disoriented and terrified Beatrice was in this moment, and then recaptures a final sense of serenity as she reminisces through her tortured mind with her son. This scene makes me feel a lot of things and her performance far and away is the biggest contributor to that
I don't think he forgave her. And I don't think she deserves forgiveness. He's just over hating her. Todd was right. He's no longer at a point in his life where he can blame his upbringing for everything. Hurting her at her most fragile and defenseless stage would only hurt him back. Almost having Hollyhock as a child probably helped put that into perspective.
When Beatrice has that little smile when she sees her brother Crackerjack, alive and well again playing the piano like he always did. Before the war took him away forever.
When he asks her if she can taste the ice cream, she says “oh Bojack, it’s so…” and you can see her frowning and looking sideways because she actually doesn’t know how the ice cream tastes. She’s just playing along with Bojack, when she finishes with “delicious”.
This was one of the most satisfying moments in the show, which says a lot. Throughout the entire season, BoJack wants to give her a rant on how despicable and awful she is, but cuz of her dementia, her not recognizing him pissed him off cuz he couldn't revenge himself. And now, she finally recognizes him in a long time, he finally has her where he wants her, a perfect moment to get everything from your chest, and yet... he just can't. He can't possibly bring himself to it, seeing her like that
I know this feeling, dealing and comforting someone who can't remember anymore
When he said 'Michigan', my heart broke.
This is one of BoJack's strongest moments. This took so much of him. I was so fucking proud.
Beatrice never had ice cream...
The power of the forgive.
He may not have said it, but I think Bojack forgave Beatrice
Brett the Hitman I think that it's possible he doesn't forgive her, but instead realized that being shitty to someone that's shitty still makes you just as shitty as them
i feel like she kind of know what shes is doing, and tried to kill Hollyhock
I don't think she tried to kill Hollyhock. I think she liked Hollyhock as much as she could like anyone. Remember, she even told Hollyhock that she could be as beautiful as Beatrice was if she lost some weight. Cruel? Certainly, but for Beatrice that's a high compliment. No, Beatrice truly believed that she was "helping" Hollyhock by giving her those diet pills. She even said that the coffee was an old family recipe. Beatrice was trying to help Hollyhock and it almost killed her.
I think, that y forgiving her he removed the hatred within him that prevented him from keeping good relationships. Though, he probably did not forgive her comletely and so a little hatred stayed within him. Horses don't change over a single moment. There may be a long journey ahead of him that leads to true forgiveness.
Actually no, watch the episodie free churro
I cried
The fact that the only loving/pleasant moment Bojack and Beatrice shared together is the last interaction they have is so depressing.
The Sugarman/Horseman saga is probably one of the best depictions of generational trauma I’ve seen on TV. Beatrice and Bojack became terrible people in life, but the audience can come to an understanding of just HOW they got to this point and what they went through. Both of them hurt people because they have been hurt.
This episode fucked me up
It fucked everybody up
As someone with a... less than optimal mother, this scene spoke to my heart and soul. Pure, unfiltered grace from BoJack's part. The compassion an abusive mother didn't deserve, the kindness a broken son didn't know he had.
I managed to not shed a tear throughout the whole series.. until this episode. It made me BAWL.
This just made me cry. Really didn't expect that
Though bojack is the product of two awful people, he manages to be the best one to come out of that long chain of ruin in the family.
That's a low bar. Besides Hollyhock.
Liamjm well Hollyhock is decent only because of her seven hundred gay dads. Had she been raised the way Bojack was she would've turned into more of a Sara Lynn
When I first watched this scene, I thought it was sweet.
Then I read a comment under another video that BoJack actually fucks up by asking her if she can taste the icecream.
Beatrice having never had icecream before, can't mentally fill in the blank.
She becomes aware again, the illusion shattered, somewhat conscious of what's happening, that BoJack is lying to make her feel better.
And so she does the same, saying it's delicious.
This is the last time the two characters spoke.
BoJack likely left feeling he got closure.
Beatrice died knowing her son tried to do well in the end, but still abandoned her.
so contrived. she obviously wasn't lying.
Really recontextualizes his use of the f-word earlier. He thought that's what he wanted to say. And maybe he still did, but instead he chose to grow into a better person than he was before.
SevenFingerDiscount living well is the best revenge
This was the first time the show made me cry. BoJack comforting his mother despite her years of abuse, and her not even know what icecream tastes like, just hoping it’s delicious
Can you taste the ice cream, mom?
I’m glad bojack comforted her in the nursing home. She had a hard life. Even though she was neglectful and abusive to bojack, he did it anyways because secretly, he just wanted her to be happy and proud of him. She abused him when he needed her the most, and he comforted her when she needed him the most. So sad
This was her one moment of lucidity …heartbreaking
this episode got me crying so much
This entire episode was such a punch to the stomach but this final scene? Absolutely heartbreaking. We get to see the side of BoJack who can't really leave his confused old mother without putting her at peace first. But then he asks her if she can taste the ice cream and the illusion is gone. How could he know that that one question would have so much weight behind it? Do we ever truly know anybody? Because both of these characters in this episode showed us that we don't and we can't.
I like to stay optimistic and believe that even though Beatrice knew that Bojack was lying about the ice cream, she still pretended that Bojack deluded her.
Two scummy people who hated each other their entire lives do a small act of kindness for each other before one of them goes. Bojack tried to give his mom one last happy moment despite everything she did and Beatrice made Bojack feel like he helped her out instead of making him feel like a burden despite treating him like one his entire life.
_...Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk..._
Catch me rewatching this scene over and over and sobbing
You can see the terror in her eyes as bojack says "See you never" as she is scared to be left alone without anyone
This scene was so powerful, man this was my favorite season by far
I still can't decide whether I like season 3 or 4 better, they were both so good!
@@simonwoods7112 I love season 4; it's definitely my favorite, but season 3 was fantastic too. I especially liked the season-long ridiculous Chekhov's Gun of the spaghetti strainers. The payoff was great! "Spaghetti or not, here I come!"
"Bojack Horseman, I see you..."
ICU
@@andyroobrick-a-brack9355I C U