Autistic or Narcissistic?
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- Опубликовано: 23 авг 2024
- Why do so many of us late-diagnosed Autistic folks bristle when we hear people talk about narcissism? In this video, I share a deep dive into my relationship with Narcissistic Personality Disorder and the process I've been undertaking to unpick all of my layers.
The word 'Autism' comes from the Greek word Autos which means self or individual. To me, Autism feels like I am orientated inwards rather than outwards. That I'm more self than relationship focused.
Narcissism exists on a spectrum from healthy levels all the way through to Narcissistic Personality Disorder. This disorder is characterised by a self-centred attitude resulting in the individual typically meeting their own needs at the expense of others.
People qualified to judge whether someone has NPD often start their exploration by examining behaviours (what we do) and attitudes (those typically being shaped by our values).
One of the reasons I’m drawn to psychology is because it typically starts with pattern-seeking. I’ve mentioned before that we humans are wired for perception (what we think will happen) rather than reality (what is happening). Another reason for my interest is my intellectualised orientation towards relationships. I guess you could say I have both a scientific interest and detachment from them for the most part.
Behaviour that fits with our values and attitudes is classified as egosyntonic. People who tick this box are highly unlikely to think of themselves as needing psychological help regardless of what other people tell them or how other people experience them.
The opposite of that is egodystonic behaviour or, behavioural patterns that we don’t like, that don’t align with our values or perception of ourselves. In this example, people might try and hide the behaviours they don’t like or try and convince the people around them that their distasteful behaviour is outside of their control - they may try to blame others, their circumstances, the system or something else.
Come with me as I try and work out what's going on for me and why I still find talk about Narcissism triggering.
Links to the resources I've used in this video in terms of Content Creators and personality disorder patterns are as follows:
1) Insight, Exposing Narcissism by Katie McKenna & Helen Villiers / @insight-exposingnarci...
2) Surviving Narcissism by Dr C & his dog Guss
/ @survivingnarcissism
3) OCPD from Psych Central psychcentral.c...
4) International OCD Foundation iocdf.org/wp-c...
5) Dr Todd Grande and his content in general but in particular his work on explaining personality disorders / @drgrande
I don't usually comment on youtube videos, but wanted to show my support for your channel as a smaller creator and say I just love hearing your take on things. I got my Autism diagnosis THIS WEEK - and your videos have been, and are, such a comfort for me.
Thank you so much, that's lovely. Good luck on this next phase of your life. Knowing for sure can change both everything and nothing x
I read in a book recently, can't remember which one or the exact words but it went something like this: "The problem of our world is not that people are too self-centered but that most people lack self-love." And I think this strikes very close to home in terms of the topic of this video.
Narcissistic people lack Self-Love and are NOT "Self-centered" but Ego-centered, Self-Hating and in many ways Other-centered as they constantly seek ego validation from other people by presenting a persona of who they want other people to reflect back to them, a false "mask". They usually hate who they are on the inside.
Self-aware Autistic people seem to usually "mask" in an attempt to hide their differences just to "fit in" to what is acceptable as "normal", not out of Self-loathing even though they might lack self-love depending on how much abuse they have received from their family, school or society for actually being differently wired and how much they have accepted this "social rejection" as truth and consequently how much they have taken in this rejected into themselves. But at least for me I often try to "mask" my Autistic traits as a survival strategy in attempt to "fit in" and as a way to "Self-preserve". I never actually hated myself even if I many times wished I was "normal", especially in adolescence and teenhood, but now I quite like who I am and I do love myself even if I have had to teach myself what that actually means and I have quite a bit of learning still.
Thank you so much for sharing your analysis of the situation. I can definitely see how society and even we ourselves could get confused. I'm glad to hear you feel good about yourself. That's wonderful
27:59 is one of my favorite points in this video is about Autistic people “using our skills to alienate people…” but without meaning to do so. Wow, yes indeed!
For example, expressing empathy via telling a relatable story about oneself can be perceived as not actually caring about others, that you’re a “me me me” person.
You mentioned OCPD as later in the video, so In l looked it up. I think I’ve known someone with it, and I can see how anxiety would drive the emotions and behaviors of someone with the disorder. It was interesting to learn something new.
I only found out about OCPD during the research for this. There's quite a lot in that pattern of behaviour and it's origin that sparked my interest. Glad it's helpful and yes, shame about those people repellant skills ❤
Fantastic! Thanks. The narcissistic narrative is not something that I recognized in the complicated combination is NPD a and ASD. Another issue that you don’t seem to struggle with, due to the fact that you are honest about your diagnosis and have made it your purpose to learn the ins and outs about how your autism affects your communication with allistic people, is the covering up or defense of the diagnosis and ASD traits using narcissistic manipulation tactics. Someone on the spectrum who has grown up in with narcissistic parent not only learns the narcissistic narratives (grandiose narratives) but may also learn the tactics and pull them out when under high anxiety or when there is a perceived need for defensiveness. Whether due to generalized anxiety, relational anxiety, executive functioning challenges, conflict in communication, sleep deprivation or some other common ASD challenge, if these challenges are coped with using manipulative tactics the results is still broken relationships and emotional damage to others.
Thank you for sharing your feedback and thoughts. I do feel that while my autism has gifted me some vulnerabilities, it is also my greatest strength and has protected me from a fair bit of emotional damage. Narcissists need supply, and I've never been a good fawner and have a very unconvincing poker face. I'm also very clumsy and can be impulsive, so narcissists generally find me hard work and either give up or try to destroy me. The latter isn't nice, but as I'm so low on the pro-social needs scale, they often come unstuck before I do. That said, I'd much rather they all leave me alone.
Just before starting watching, I read your description and I'm excited to get into this. Also, loving the Frida Kahlo image you have in the background!
Thank you for taking the time to watch and comment. Yes that's a lovely poster of the iconic Frida. It belongs to one of my daughters.
I have, in the way past, identified my own feelings and behavior that were very much in line with what they call a "discouraged narcissist"-- but I have always been incredibly introspective; I am my own special interest, which makes me sound self-centered, but somehow I'm not.
Thanks for your video Amanda. From what I know about NPD (just from reading lots about it over the years), I'd say you're absolutely 110% NOT!! 😊😊
i too am interested in my own machine. as bugs bunny famously said, Monsters are such INTERESTING people.
👍
You’re brilliantly expressive, btw.
Thank you, that's very kind. I'm the atomic bomb of self reflection.
@@suddenlyautistic i get it. Seems that’s relatively common for us.
Not self-centered. Self-driven. Empathy (active, not feeling) being a key differentiator. Which, PDA-related tendencies aside, is just pragmatic, frankly.
The quote by James Joyce is a light in the dark and it by passes through the notion of autism or narcism.
“I will tell you what I will do and what I will not do. I will not serve that in which I no longer believe, whether it calls itself my home, my fatherland, or my church: and I will try to express myself in some mode of life or art as freely as I can and as wholly as I can, using for my defense the only arms I allow myself to use -- silence, exile, and cunning.”
― James Joyce, A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man
As I have written on your vlog before the recent diagnosis of autism as a pathway is a jungle of psychology’s multiple capital letter descriptions. As far as I can see it is a maze that is mainly profitable to psychology business community.
Ego and diagnosis is a wild goose chase; once you know which orifice to place your fork or spoon of food you should know enough to carry on.
Amanda, does Australia have psychiatrists using psychedelics as a method for detangling a mind wrapped up in itself? Or as the Beatles wrote ‘Turn Off Your Mind and Flow Down Stream’ from ‘Tomorrow Never Knows’.
Yes there are psychedelics being offered here. I find the labels and unpeeling very helpful although I also accept they are only part of the journey, not the destination. We are all different that way. I don't think I'll try psychedelics. As Dali said, 'I don't need drugs, I am drugs' or something like that. I'm usually good as long as other people aren't trying to project their ideas and thoughts onto me. That said, with my newly developed boundary skills, I'm getting pretty good at deflecting what doesn't serve me.
Oh I do agree. At the age of 72, I am one week away from my autism assessment and for the last couple of months whilst waiting I watch RUclipsrs who have been diagnosed as an adult.
Even though your message isn’t for me, reading it has hopefully saved me from the rabbit hole.
@@yvonnerobinson
I am 79 years old and you will be you after the diagnosis too.
@@suddenlyautistic
There may be no destination, isn't that a part or the existential dilemma, 'Waiting For Godot'.
@@artemisXsidecross I'm not aiming for a destination, I'm looking to understand and engage with the journey more fully.
Can be accused of narcissism be a reaction to a division between cultural expectation and self knowledge.
People on the frontier of becoming could be easily confused as being self directed by narcissism while they are merely edge runners on the cusp of becoming.
Would not such notable people as Albert Einstein, Emily Dickinson, or Gertrude Stein be sidelined if they believed as some said they were a ‘loose cannon’.
The real frontier is between what a culture thinks one should be and what ones essence proclaims.
To be an edge runner is a task for a warrior who operates between what may be expected and the frontier of self knowledge.
No
@@suddenlyautistic
That is rather blunt and rigid. If you were my parent, I would again leave home at 18 and not return. Your narcism overrides your autism as to make it meek. You have definitely shown a divide between the two.
Are you sure you're not me?
Not entirely sure , no. Lol
🤔
Sorry, you are now my friend, nothing you can do about it.
Luckily, this does not entail any particular obligation on either of our parts. :-)
No problem. Welcome to the weirdness.