I'm a mechanic since birth type, can figure out anything, drive a ton, vehicle, heavy commercial aircraft, semi, tractor, you name it mechanic. I just bought a f150 lightning due to the simplicity, lack of maintenance, low fuel cost. I drive my vehicles full throttle with no mercy. I've blown countless engines and transmissions. The lightning is in the testing phases but I've done countless hours of research and at 25000 miles a year driving like a raped ape this truck checks all the boxes!
It’s far more complex to work in a engine with 2000 moving parts than a ev with 10 moving parts. A lot less ware. What’s been eating EVs quality is when they install dumb designs where parts that don’t need to be there break. Like falcon wing doors or fancy door handles that are just to be cool. If you took a car manufacturer like Audi and modified their design to take out the complicated bits from their hugely complex drive trains and stuck in a good electric motor and battery with a good software. You’d have the perfect car. Like taking Audis interior with teslas drive train and teslas unibody frame. Teslas would be perfect cars if you had Audi VW Porsche manufacturer it. Fit and finish would be great. Paint would be perfect. I imagined early on that VW would buy Tesla and that would happen but. Yeah. Wall Street.
The problem and the part that you are ignoring is that many people can't afford to purchase new trucks. They will be buying these used in a few years and then finding out that the battery was already on the way out. Hopefully they pay attention to aftermarket warranty options.
Ok what about if government forced a lock down and had your vehicle shut down or god forbid the system gets hacked and repo feature is activated or vehicle is shut down as random ware. My ice engine only responds to a key and always responds.
my prius batteries were going bad at just before 100k, toyota wouldnt replace them under warranty as they were "not bad enough" read your warranty people, there are a reason while teslas are being converted to gas engines, and run a batter degradation test on these batteries so far
They never say what happens when you plug a charging cable into a hot battery you just came in with you will find out what Boom Boom really is. When you put a continuous drain on a battery it gets hot feel your cell phone after you talk for a while on it you want to shorten the life of it plug it in you will find out sooner or later.
Living on a ranch in Arizona I still drive the 1969 Ford 4x4 truck my dad bought new…. I use four wheel drive a lot, pull horse trailer’s, haul Hey and fencing… hopefully you will keep making the F-350 4x4 for people that actually use trucks.
Don't worry, someone in New York or Washington who's never been west of the Mississippi River will tell you what you need to live. That's what's going on now.
Unfortunately, the government will soon force you to throw away your older ice vehicle in the name of saving the planet. That's exactly what is happening in europe as we speak. Newer ice vehicles have a mandatory back door (Biden signed it into law for the USA in 2022 I think), which has a kill-switch and many other surveillance "goodies" which infringe on the driver's freedom as a human being. IMHO this situation is only going to get worse engulfing all aspects of our daily life, not only cars.
You didn’t talk about the initial cost of the purchase of the truck the “gas trucks” going to come out cheaper for sure when you put that number in there it’ll be thousands if not 10-15k cheaper!
$48,000 for new gas XLT F-150. $64,000 for new ev XLT F-150. I used the XLT package because it is the most popular trim package and added crew cab on the gas truck because the EV truck only comes in a crew cab.
If I'm not mistaken I have 8 years or 100,000 miles warranty on the battery. I have no intention of running it past the warranty. So far my 2023 F-150 Lightening Platinum is the best truck I have ever owned. Highly recommend it. Faster than a Raptor and smoother than a Lincoln. The Blue Oval Charging network is the best. I charge at Tesla super chargers and Electrify America while on road trips. No issues. Love it or hate it, this is the future. The tech will only get better and better.
Good video. I have a 2020 F150 with a 5.0… I bought it new in September 2020. I currently have have 6,409 miles on it. I’m retired and due to the pandemic we had I didn’t go on vacation anywhere. For me an EV doesn’t make sense at all. Even if there hadn’t been a pandemic it would have only added maybe 2,800 miles to my mileage total. So if you factor in the cost and damage to the environment it takes to mine and dispose of EV batteries I’m coming out way ahead. Plus I have never seen an EV charger anywhere in my hometown except a dealership or a nice hotel….
Talking about mining is bad, how bad is it when there is an oil spill? How about no more toxic fume polluting the city air? The materials to make battery mine once and ~95% of the material can be recycled and reused multiple times when the battery is at end of life, can oil be recycled? A battery can last over 500k miles.
@@lanemorrow7417 it's true there are many teslas hitting 300k with 0 issues on the original battery. You don't get, these batteries are meant to outlast the car.
@@lanemorrow7417 The battery can last 5 years max according to wikipedia and then you at least $35k to replacement the entire battery plus the labor cost and additional taxes 😅
Try carrying a "gallon of electricity" from the fuel station to a stranded out-of-electricity EV. It is far easier to carry a gallon of gasoline to a truck w/ an internal combustion engine.
@@TheV8nissan Apparently you never saw this story of a tourist with an EV car that ran out of charge near a coal mine in West Virginia. So he had to have his car pushed by several miners to the coal mine so that he could charge his battery. >> Google it.
14 cents a KW, I just divide my electric bill by kw hours used to get a more accurate picture of cost, it was 18 cents a kwh. Many people don't have garages to charge their vehicles so you may want to give us 2 numbers with one charging at these superchargers. I believe some of them charge 50 cents a kwh. That would really give a clearer picture of actual cost.
You are right about the road use tax. Some talk in several states about a fee per mile driven, that opens a whole new can of worms. EV's are about money and control, the planet is gonna survive with or without them. If you believe the nut jobs, the world will end in 8 years, so why worry? How dare you!!??#@#!#
on the other side of that, How about the cost of the transmission when that goes out. ICE vehicles definitely have more parts that wear out and require maintenance than EV's.
@@darpompie4354 So, the ICE owner will get nickel and dimed to death, usually spending no more than $1500 in one trip, but, when the EV batteries go bad, you're looking at $20k+ immediately. Also, those battery warranties aren't transferable to the next owner. Even an average auto accident could destroy an EV battery, which will still cost $20k, or more.
@@Truth_Matt3rs I own a business where we have both Ice and EV vehicles (our 1st EV is 8 years old now). Batteries, like engines/transmissions are designed to work for the life of the vehicle. 300K+ miles. You guys are talking like it's a normal occurrence to replace a battery. No... it's not normal. Do engines/transmissions fail under 100k miles. Generally no but it does happen. So does that mean because it happened to bob that every one buying an ice vehicle should be prepared to pay for an engine/transmission replacement. Just like anything else, there are going to be failures and that includes batteries. The difference is, if a battery is bad, it usually fails right away. With an 8 year warranty, this is a non issue. It's also not normal for a battery to be destroyed in an "average" accident like you state. They are generally placed between the reinforced frame. If the accident is so sever that it gets to the point that the battery is "destroyed" the vehicle would be a write-off regardless if it were an EV or Ice. There is by far a much better chance that the engine would be destroyed in an average frontal crash, where as the EV would have a much cheaper frunk to repair.
The batteries are the fuel storage system. Replacing the electric motors is the equivalent of replacing the engine. Replacing the gas tank is the equivalent of replacing the batteries. What is the expected lifespan of the battery system? Will they last for 200,000 miles?
I was watching a mechanic friend of mine working on an EV. He pointed to this big plastic box and said, “That’s the integrated power assembly. When that thing goes the best thing to do is replace the whole fucking car.”
Yes, a lot of people seem to forget that the battery is just an extremely heavy and complex fuel tank, compared to a gas fuel tank the differences are night and day.
You can also factor in junkyard parts for the gas truck and if the truck is cared for it will last way longer than 200k. Gas trucks are cheaper, better for the environment and can do the work that trucks are supposed to do. Eventually the ev will become a paperweight that is very difficult to recycle. Gas trucks can run until the frame rots out and most regular shops can work on them
In Michigan, add in the yearly electric vehicle tax. Our governor never seems to mention the hidden costs (the tax, tires, high speed charger) and the Ford pickups that burned up while they were park in a factory storage area, but she has set an impossible deadline for us to be green.
Great stuff. Something that was not mention was the oil changes, coolants change. And transmission service. I think both have pros and cons depending on where you live.
A gas engine never ever needs to be replaced at 200k miles, but a battery has specific charging cycle life and will be needed to be replaced in 200k or even less.
@3UZFE So because it's in JD Power is must be true right? How about relying on real world examples like people who drive them. I personally owened an M3P and it was awesome and not a single fault. I hit 220K miles with zero issues, let me repeat that zero issues. Anyone I know who has a Tesla also has not had issues. I purchased a F150 lighting lariat and it's awesome..hey don't belive everything you read on the internet including this post 😂
Don't forget to add the cost of restaurant, coffee shop and other expanse waiting chaging ........ At the end.......is no saving...and when the battery is done...is like a cell phone...just throw out and buy another one.... Also, with the regular 5.0 you can swap a motor for $2000 in the competitive market....swapping battery you have to go to the dealer$$$$$$
Christian, you make an amazing point. I watch a lot of electric vehicle vids and they guys always have to do lunch while waiting for their cars to charge. And at night, nothing is open so those poor shmucks are stuck waiting by their electr cars, in the cold or rain.
Filled up 2022 F150 Lariat Hybrid Powerboost, showed 1029kms to empty. Drove home 155kms away in heavy traffic, and when reached home, it showed 1139kms to empty and needle still showed full tank. Ha, ha, there you go, this is why I purchased a Hybrid and not the full EV.
I know several people who put more than 200K miles on Coyotes that showed no loss in performance. My Gen 1 Lightning is nearly 30 years old and never had any powertrain issues. My best friend put over 300K miles on his Gen 1 Lightning and it was still running strong with no oil consumption. Yeah, I'm gonna stick with what I have.
There is no reason to be FORCED into an electric vehicle. I own a Ford F-150 XLT 5.8L WITH 300,000 miles on it. Original engine, trans, differential. It gets 12 mpg. Uphill or down, loaded or empty, it don't care. I didn't buy it for mileage, I bought it for work. And it does that well. It gets routine maintenance and 87 octane.
Great video guys. I was looking at the Lightning recently and started looking at all the videos from Lightning owners and info channels such as your own. After researching the Lightning, now more than ever, I am thankful I found a two-year old Ford F150 4x4 (V8) with 8100 miles in 2022 and made that purchase for $39,000.00 instead. I think another factor for the Lightning is depreciation. Over time, Ford will have a very good idea of the actual mileage life they are getting on those batteries. Knowing the estimated battery life left will be huge when it comes to those trade-in values.
This also isn't taking into account the maintenance charges on a gas truck, or the fact that the cost of the battery will come down over time as economies of scale come into play. In ten years there will be better batteries that will be cheaper that could be installed, so in theory you could have a new battery that give you a larger range as well.
You won't have to replace the entire battery. These batteries are meant to outlast the car. Teslas are hitting 300k+ on the original battery with 0 issues
With a new ice engine you have a complete new engine but, with a new battery or battery components you do NOT have have a complete engine because the electric motors motors (which are the ones actually produce the necessary power to push the vehicle as an ice engine does), will still need to be replaced. So, in order to really compare the cost between an ev and an ice vehicle it should be: battery + electric motors vs ice engine.
Here are some of the many problems with the "equal cost at 200k" example you gave at the end: 1. The Lightning is roughly 15k more up front. (ICE starts at 34,585 vs EV 49,995) You might say "well configs are different" ok compare an XLT crew cab 5.0 vs XLT lightning with extended range and it's even bigger at 52,290 vs 71,635, so 19,345 difference. Basically 20k. 2. You vastly underestimated electricity cost while overestimating gas costs. Sure, it's cheaper to charge at home, but are you really going to only charge at home? Of course not. Electrify America common rate is 48 cents per kWh. $3.93/gal was basically an all time high. It's 50 cents cheaper than that currently, and it's $2.71 for me (on the east coast). Furthermore, the national average per kWh is 23 cents, almost double what you quoted. So you vastly overestimated gas price and vastly underestimated electricity price. Electricity will also go way up in price as we quadruple demand with new EVs but I digress. It looks like you're saying 200,000 miles at .479 kWh per mile at 14 cents per kWh. Ok, now what if we say 23 cents per kWh at home (which it is) instead of 14 cents, plus some charging on the road at 48 cents, let's say you're averaging 32 cents per kWh to be a little more accurate. That would give a cost of $30,674.29 per 200k miles for electricity. Then let's do the same for the gas. Looks like you're using 19.65 mpg so 200k/19.65 is 10,178 gallons of gas at 2.71 equals $27,582.70. Lmao, it's cheaper to fuel the gas vehicle! Unless of course you never drive the EV anywhere and need to charge it outside of your home (which is unrealistic). Even if you bumped down the electricity price to the national average and ONLY charged at home, it would still be $22,047.14. So, over the course of 200k, assuming 15k miles per year, you'd save........ $415.17 per year in fuel. When we are talking about a TCO (a true TCO, not a fuel up cost like you guys did) of over $100,000, 415 dollars is nothing. So yeah, 71.6k for the truck, 22,047 for juice, average car insurance of around 1800 bucks a year (for a > 70k truck keep in mind), that's 23,999.94 in insurance over that same time period of 13.3333 years (200k miles/15k miles per year). Plus maintenance and tires and EV charger and all that stuff, your actual TOTAL cost of ownership is going to be at least 120k over 13.333 years. Just for some perspective of how little the 415 dollar annual fuel "savings" will be. But we can drop off insurance since it will likely be similar (though EV insurance will be more but we can let that slide). If we JUST look at purchase price and fuel price, let's just say 25k for juice with minimal public chargings, you're at about 97k. ICE will be around 80k. So almost 20k less. Then consider depreciation. A 10 year old XLT is worth, what, 25k? Nobody is going to pay 40k to replace a battery pack on a vehicle worth 25k but they WILL pay 9k or so for a brand new engine. Meaning a 100k mile 8 year old truck or older will be worth WAY more as an ICE than an EV. These 10 year old EVs are going to have TERRIBLE resale value, because they could be totaled at any moment if the battery grenades. Not true with ICE. So the financials just aren't at all competitive. And yeah, don't come at me with the 7500 maximum tax credit. IF you can even get 100% of that, cool. It pays for the charger and puts 5k back in your pocket. You're still in the hole for 15k at least. Probably a LOT more if you ever need a new battery since you'll lose 25k equity in the vehicle at 100%, vs around 9k out of 25k for the ICE. Best case scenario you lose $15,000. Worst case, you lose over $50,000 (total truck equity if you have an out of warranty issue call it +25k, +20k purchase price, +3k fuel cost, higher insurance since it's a much more expensive vehicle, 2k electrician cost, if you don't get all of the tax credit, etc). 3. Despite paying massively more money AND having a lot more risk, lower resale value, etc., YOU GET A WORSE TRUCK! The EV Lightning can tow like 80 miles before running out of battery on a full, extended range charge (for around 7500 lbs I think?)! The ICE can tow like 2.5x that far. And you can get the 36 gallon tank add on option for like 600 bucks extra? So you could tow like 4x as far? And then you can refill in 5 minutes and go another 4x. What happens when you're towing with the ev and need a charge? You gotta wait another hour for another 80 miles of range (and pay that much higher fuel price btw). And fine, even if you don't need to tow, the 5.0 with the extended range fuel tank can go 707 miles! Compared to like 300 with the EV. What are the advantages of the EV? It has a faster acceleration? Lol who cares? You can charge it at home and don't have to go to the gas station? Ok, that's a benefit, but when you consider that it takes like 8-12 hours to charge at home, vs 5 minutes at a gas station, I don't even know if that's a benefit. At the end of the day, EVs are a horrible value proposition. They are basically only good for rich people who DON'T actually need a truck. If you have more money than sense, AND have a spare ICE vehicle for road trips/emergencies, AND you only drive a few miles to get your groceries, then sure, it's fine. But for 99% of us, it's worse. And for most of those, it's WAY worse. TL:DR EVs suck.
A few bad points you made: Charging at home is cheapest, and you added some places have free charging - great - but you failed to mention how often people will fast charge at a rate of let's round to $0.50/kWh. That's going to significantly offset the fuel savings. Also if like most EVs tires will last half the time and therefore cost 2x. I'm an EV fan, but these few missed points can really change the math.
@@youtubecantsaveallthesnowf8601 Old home with very low number of amps of service? Or massive home with electric far far away from garage? That is quite insane price for a charger install. Most are $1000 - $3000 for homes with 200 amps service.
@Steve Radich home is 12 years old, I have city power drop on corner of my property and home has massive solar array and tesla batteries. Was looking at the hummer ev and was quoted that for charger. So I bought a denali xl instead. Was looking to replace my honda civic commuter with a tesla but the charger issue is holding me back.
They are about 95% recyclable. Cells can easily just be interchanged. Look at the price of prius battery's. You can get remanufactured prius batteries for around 2k
Oil changes, belts, transmission, injectors, filters, etc etc etc for 200k worth of maintenance on the gas vehicle completely left out of your calculations. My 1996 f250 just cost $175 to do inspection and oil change (oil $8/quart). The lightning has much less maintenance to perform over the same 200 k. Also, ev components have an 8 year warranty- which by 200k would likely be exhausted but want that compared to the warranty on the 5 liter. Last of all, I’d hope my lightning can be “upgraded” to a longer range ‘ better chemistry battery by the time I’ve put 200k on it. I agree that you need to look at the whole picture but that’s just what you didn’t do by disregarding gas vehicle maintenance costs. I have a much bigger change than you mention - f250 with 7.5liter @ 10mpg (7.5 mpg towing) vs lighting at about 35 mpge when towing. Sure the range is short, but it works for my use case and I can charge for free using 50-amp sockets at RV parks…
I've heard, that even an average car accident, that wouldn't total an ICE vehicle, could destroy an EV's battery, which could cost $20k, or more to replace.
I drive an average of 150 miles a week. 7800 miles a year. That's 25.6 years before I'll have 200,000 miles on my lightning. I'll be over 98 years old, if I were to live that long. I'd be surprised if I'll still be driving any truck or car. My warranty will be expired in 8 years. I can't imagine the changes that will take place with EV'S in just 5 years. I may have my lightning traded in by then.
Not really a lot of changes coming, just more of the same, more complexity, more designed obsolescence. Lithium battery tech is almost 50 years old, so if they had something better it would already be here.
Those are some fantastic labor rates. What about all the maintenance the 5.0 has in comparison to the minimum maintenance from the lightning to hit that 200k mile mark?
Without using the maintenance data you are comparing the worst case scenario on the BEV against the best case scenario on the ICE. You’re not even counting the 40 oil changes cost on the 5.0. My dealer would charge me 100 for an oil change but they would always include something else.
Nah... let's talk about all the strip mining needed to get the raw materials to build these batteries. Toys, tools, bicycles, phones, computers... everything is battery powered now. What is used to do all this strip mining by the way? Massive diesel powered machines. Stop acting like Electric Vehicles are the answer when they most obviously are not. John Stossel has an excellent two part series on EVs (Coal Burners) and how the planet is being destroyed. It amazes me how EVs are referred to as Clean Energy when they are anything but. The most pristine areas are now being destroyed in South America, Africa etc... just so more and more batteries can be built. Look at one of our major problems right now... used and out of date solar panels. It now takes more energy to recycle a solar panel than the amount of energy that panel produced during its lifetime. Also... look at the massive power grid overhaul that will be necessary to keep these batteries juiced up. Already California is begging people not to charge their EVs (Coal Burners) during the day! Clean Energy... just another feel good term.
Very deceptive video super tiptoeing around proper issues and maintenance of both trucks. Start with the Gas F150 the odds of ever replacing that engine towards 200k is possible but unlikely especially if the truck is well maintained and taken care of. On the F150 Lightening you will be replacing that whole battery pack around 10 years into its life. That's around the same time most tesla and other EV's have them replaced. Witch is caused by the batteries themselves breaking down and loosing chargeability and capacity yearly. I will not even get onto out right cost of both new to own and how most Ev's its almost impossible to be serviced anywhere but where you bought it so the repair costs are going to be threw the roof. Where as the gas F150 you will have no issue's repairing it yourself or at any mechanic you choose. So if your going to do price points and 200k speculation to influence people to go EV you should use all the data not cherry pick. At this point EV's are a cool Luxury item and somewhere down the line maybe 50+ years from know when we have way better battery tech they might be feasible for daily use for everyone but we are no where at this point yet. I personally will stick with my 26 year old Jeep Wrangler with original motor and transmission etc. That from some good care runs great and starts like a new car at its age. And cost me nothing monthly but gas cause its owned and to point this out that pretty much the same view of most drivers. it just not cost effective to pay 40- 100k plus have to spend around 10k just to charge a car when my current one cost me 0 to add anything to my home or makes me wait for it for 45min to hours to fill up gas takes a few min and your done.
Theres no shot that one half of the cost to manufacture EVs is in the battery... yet every time i look at an ev battery replacement cost its AT LEAST half the cost of the original retail price. Brutal. it truly takes away all incentive. even if the electricity is free!! you'll never find a break even point, it will always be more costly than a gasoline engine.. and far less convenient.
Three more things. 1. As demand for electricity continues to increase, so will the price of electricity. 2. There will come a time when we reach peak recharging during daytime because additional electricity generating stations aren’t being procured fast enough to keep up. This means bottlenecks, brownouts and blackouts, unless you have your own private source, such as a home solar panel installation. 3. Governments currently collect hefty taxes on gasoline and diesel to fund construction and maintenance of road infrastructure. At the moment, EV’s get a free pass, but this won’t last. Already, Texas has begun taxing EV’s annually to collect the shortfall.
I disagree with one thing. If you're factoring in the savings in fuel, EV vs. gas then you should factor in the cost of the trucks at purchase. This will make a big difference in the actual savings
I think the thing that would finally get everyone to switch to electric would be battery swap. Tesla dabbled with this early on but abandoned it. But I think this would relieve everyone’s anxiety. Have a subscription service that let you battery swap instead of charging. Would be a automated gas station type of place you just pulled through and a robotic system would drop the battery out and install a new one. This would get rid of range anxiety and the time having to wait for charging. But also the unknowns about how much will the car lose in range over time. I think EVs should come with a small battery with maybe 150 miles of range. That’s perfect for around town stuff. Use that most of the time while charging at home. Also the car would be much lighter with 1/3 the battery giving you better range per kWh and better performance in acceleration and breaking. Make cars safer on the road if they’re lighter. Then if you want to go on a trip stop at the battery place and swap in a removable high capacity battery in under 5 minutes. It’s really the perfect solution for the customer and the manufacturer. It makes EVs cheaper to buy. Let’s them manufacture more because you need less raw material to make smaller batteries. Cars are safer. And gives a income to the manufacturers or dealers because people will be buying the battery service from them for the life of the car. Make the battery swap costs 1/2 price of gas. Put solar on the stations and you have a net zero road trip. In the areas of the car that are oddly shaped, install the permanent batteries that conform to the cars angles. But leave a big square universal sized bay in the bottom for battery swaps. Let’s have all the manufacturers agree on a voltage and size and the design to allow anyone to make a device that allows the battery to be dropped. No patent on the swapper. Plus there are companies in Europe and China that already do this. Let’s use their data. People be like ohhh but I don’t know how someone treated the battery I get and it might have issues. So. Get another one. Let the battery swap place worry about that. Plus they have the resources to take a battery out and service it if a cell goes bad. Or won’t hold a charge. It costs a few bucks for a company like that to repair a cell. You’d have to replace the whole battery module costing thousands. Plus I think people will find they won’t be using a big battery most of the time anyway.
These batteries especially Tesla’s are going 500,000 miles plus. Gas car lasts 200,000 miles and/or 12-15 years then too expensive too repair. Even if batteries 50% you can give second life as a house battery like a power way. I never realized how much maintenance was required on a gas car until I bought a new Tesla model x 5 years ago. 70,000 miles just tires as maintenance. Never been to a service center. These cars can last forever. I charge at home with solar and save thousands if buying gas.
Question is......how many people do you think will be lined up to buy a preowned Lightning with a battery that's out of warranty???? $30k battery vs a $15k engine is a no brainer. These electric truck values will absolutely tank when the warranty expires!!! I wouldn't touch one!
These savings comparisons are always botched because the fuel cost is rarely the highest cost of ownership of a vehicle. Add depreciation into the equation and even if you get energy for free and do not need to change the battery, you will not break even before 10 years. If you consider that the vast majority of first owners never keep the vehicle for 10 years, it is a (additional) loss any way you look at it.
Battery and motor are not the same. The lighting still has a motor that could just as well go bad. Just as the 302 could. EV is not a planet or wallet saver. But it could be fun to drive
I think ford should start using LFP batteries to save them selves from the hastles of battery issues and cement a good reputation from the start for the lightning from the start as a reliable vehicle .
I have ordered a 2022 F-150 Powerboost as of Feb01 that I still have not received :( Can you tell me over time what is the cost going to be, to replace a Powerboost battery? Thx K
When comparing EV's Combustion/Gasoline vehicles, there is 1 element that ALWAYS gets left out of the debate. Yes, with an EV charging at home & at Charge Stations it cost less than filling up with gas especially when there are free EV charging places to use & the gift of vouchers. Yes, as we saw in this video, if both engines blew out, the $53k price is almost equal. But, what gets left out is, along the way to your 200k miles & 10 yrs of ownership, the only maintenance on the EV is tires but the gasoline vehicles get oil & filter changes every 3 months, breakage of radiators, air filters, spark plugs, need tuneups, muffler, Cadallac Converter, gasket leaks, & other parts that fail throughout the life of the vehicle. So i say the gasoline vehicle would cost way more over time than an EV.
The chances of that engine failing is far greater the the EV battery. If the battery gets passed the 100,000 warranty period without failing, it will almost certainly go well beyond 200,000 miles.
I believe your cost of battery is not realistic, that’s a price if you walked in just buy one…let’s think about core charges for parts or the fact many companies will pop up to refurbish batteries in the future. You will most likely not need to buy brand new, just like an engine or electric motor for that matter.
Why would you need to replace the battery on your lightning? I don’t know if you’re aware, but it can be taken apart and any bad cells in there can be replaced
It was -52C with the windchill this week -35 without. We get at least 4 months of below 0C. No way the batteries last 200k.Maybe in California, not here.
@@78Terp a well maintained gas engine, barring any unforseen circumstances, can last 200k miles or more. We dont have any idea how the Ford lightning batteries will work in the real world. Whet about extreme temeprature environments? Take for example my closed garage in Phoenix AZ in the summer. It can reach temperatures of 120 or more inside...that can have a detrimental effect on the life of the batteries...that's not including even driving around or the detrimental effects of fast charging at the stations. That of course is just me thinking out loud based on research. I'm not against having a lightning..
For me, personally, this comparison is a moot point. I will only buy a truck like this if I'm going to need to tow a trailer once in a while. For the electric truck, the range when towing is nearly non-existent. Therefore it is not a truck. I've owned a diesel Chevy Colorado for 7 years. I have recently sold all the trailers that I own. So I'm selling the truck. It has a 300 to 400 mile range when towing. It can be "recharged" in about 10 minutes. I would never own a truck that has an 80 mile towing range, and takes hours to recharge. Not to mention, you might have disconnect the trailer in order to recharge. If you're going to drive to Home Depot and buy a sheet of plywood once in a while, maybe this truck works. But, in that case, you can rent a truck from Home Depot super cheap.
Here's the problem the way I see it. Yes, MAYBE they are close to the same cost of ownership in 200,000 miles BUT all the EV owners I see commenting on line bragging about fuel, oil, tune ups etc aren't likely stashing away that "saved" money so when (not if) the battery gives out they have the money to repair it. True, the gas engine MAY need to be replaced (not as likely in my opinion if maintained) but it may be easier to come up with the money to repair the engine (maybe with used) at 13K as opposed to 40-50K for a battery. Don't get me wrong, I think the CONCEPT of electric is OK but I don't think battery technology is good enough, at least for my purposes. Maybe some day.
10 percent sales tax in Alabama???? WTF, and people SCREAM about Chicago's sales tax being *10.25%* and cite this "tax" specifically about being the main reason they moving out of state. LMAO.
Battery replacement of $40,000 to replace the entire battery, And replacing individual cells is idiotic. You can drive an F250 ice farther then 200,000.
The f-150 lightning is impressive, but I think pickups are a bad choice for EVs. Batteries are heavy and expensive, and to get a vehicle like a pickup truck to do pickup truck things it takes a lot of power and has a lot of drawbacks when it comes to battery performance. in my opinion the right way to design an electric vehicle is to make one as small as possible to minimize the weight you are hauling around and make it very aerodynamic to keep highway mileage up.... They should be coming out with the equivalent of a mazda miata but electric, I bet that thing could get 200 miles on a comparatively very small battery, probably something like 40 Kwh
They compared the wrong stuff, it should be how much it cost to replace the fuel tank in ICE truck! Then how much it cost to replace the EV motor vs the ICE Engine!
In 100,000 miles of driving my Lightning will save me 15,000 dollars. My power is only 0.068 cents per KWH. This is compared to my Toyota Tundra at 16 MPG. Well cared for batteries may last to 240,000 miles. FYI.
My local shop mentioned that they will not be servicing or working on EVs , the amount of safety precautions required, rubber screens on walls etc. isn't worth it to them .
Wake up these EV are great as a second or third car or you live in a sunny climate and own your own solar panels to charge up your EV ( there’s no such thing as Zero Emissions) -EV are just expensive road legal “golf carts”... -unlike gas that is very versatile & flexible powering everything from cars,trucks,boats,planes,generators in all kinds of temperatures & weather conditions EV batteries are “delicate” need their own climate environment to prevent them from overheating or freezing.. EV vehicle’s are just like your iPhone or Android smartphones..after a few years when the batteries 🔋 lose their lustre & power or a newer gadget laden EV rolls out people will ditch their EV cars for a newer version more frequently..just like your smartphone.. I still own & run a few jeeps made in the early 1990’s they are daily driven.. my newest vehicle I own is my 2006 Hummer and it has no problem starting and running in minus -49 fahrenheit & buried in 6 feet of snow up here in northern Canada 🇨🇦 where we out winters last 9 months ..
How many miles the Lightning can go before the batteries die. The Coyote might go over 200k miles if well maintained and treated might go more to 250k or even more.
This is assuming all of your charging would be done at home which you won't and electricity rates [gasoline too] are not going to increase over the next ten years.
ignores the oil changes, extra brakes, etc of the gas truck.. but yeah... they are on par except for the ghg content. But can hope for better recycling in the future so you actually get a core value back on your existing battery, as it is actually worth something.
I don't understand why every time they do comparison they mid represent. Hear me out: When you say drive units in a gas unit. You talk about the motor when is a EV you talk about the battery which is incorrect. If a drive unit is engine transmission axle in a EV a power electronics module( Battery), and the transmission line from it to the electronic motors, To be a fair comparison, you have to include the motors with the batteries on .EV. Compared with the gas unit is just the engine. So what would be the cause between the two pickups if you replacing the drive unit by this definition
I'm a mechanic since birth type, can figure out anything, drive a ton, vehicle, heavy commercial aircraft, semi, tractor, you name it mechanic. I just bought a f150 lightning due to the simplicity, lack of maintenance, low fuel cost. I drive my vehicles full throttle with no mercy. I've blown countless engines and transmissions. The lightning is in the testing phases but I've done countless hours of research and at 25000 miles a year driving like a raped ape this truck checks all the boxes!
I love how nobody talks about the qualified technicians that these EV require. And a good mechanic hard to find
It’s far more complex to work in a engine with 2000 moving parts than a ev with 10 moving parts. A lot less ware. What’s been eating EVs quality is when they install dumb designs where parts that don’t need to be there break. Like falcon wing doors or fancy door handles that are just to be cool. If you took a car manufacturer like Audi and modified their design to take out the complicated bits from their hugely complex drive trains and stuck in a good electric motor and battery with a good software. You’d have the perfect car. Like taking Audis interior with teslas drive train and teslas unibody frame. Teslas would be perfect cars if you had Audi VW Porsche manufacturer it. Fit and finish would be great. Paint would be perfect. I imagined early on that VW would buy Tesla and that would happen but. Yeah. Wall Street.
@@jspafford VW cannot sell a single electric car and their ICE cars especially Audis are giant junk piles
Learn yourself fool
The problem and the part that you are ignoring is that many people can't afford to purchase new trucks. They will be buying these used in a few years and then finding out that the battery was already on the way out. Hopefully they pay attention to aftermarket warranty options.
Has anyone ever heard of a battery in anything that didn't run out earlier than predicted?
The batteries NASA uses for the Mars rovers?
Yes, the energizer bunny.
F150 lighting and Mach E batteries have a 10 year warranty. So that's a 10 year from now problem.
Ok what about if government forced a lock down and had your vehicle shut down or god forbid the system gets hacked and repo feature is activated or vehicle is shut down as random ware. My ice engine only responds to a key and always responds.
Not a fan of EV's..yet...but great point. Dump it at 9 years, 11 months.@@didiermejia780
Funny thing is in 200k you are probably going to be putting two batteries in it.
It'll be a lot less than $200,000 miles probably end of vicinity of $150
my prius batteries were going bad at just before 100k, toyota wouldnt replace them under warranty as they were "not bad enough" read your warranty people, there are a reason while teslas are being converted to gas engines, and run a batter degradation test on these batteries so far
They never say what happens when you plug a charging cable into a hot battery you just came in with you will find out what Boom Boom really is. When you put a continuous drain on a battery it gets hot feel your cell phone after you talk for a while on it you want to shorten the life of it plug it in you will find out sooner or later.
Living on a ranch in Arizona I still drive the 1969 Ford 4x4 truck my dad bought new…. I use four wheel drive a lot, pull horse trailer’s, haul Hey and fencing… hopefully you will keep making the F-350 4x4 for people that actually use trucks.
Don't worry, someone in New York or Washington who's never been west of the Mississippi River will tell you what you need to live. That's what's going on now.
Unfortunately, the government will soon force you to throw away your older ice vehicle in the name of saving the planet. That's exactly what is happening in europe as we speak. Newer ice vehicles have a mandatory back door (Biden signed it into law for the USA in 2022 I think), which has a kill-switch and many other surveillance "goodies" which infringe on the driver's freedom as a human being. IMHO this situation is only going to get worse engulfing all aspects of our daily life, not only cars.
I just wait for BATTERY SWAPPING......
You didn’t talk about the initial cost of the purchase of the truck the “gas trucks” going to come out cheaper for sure when you put that number in there it’ll be thousands if not 10-15k cheaper!
$48,000 for new gas XLT F-150. $64,000 for new ev XLT F-150. I used the XLT package because it is the most popular trim package and added crew cab on the gas truck because the EV truck only comes in a crew cab.
Absolutely!
Just remember some day the Federal and States will need to tax the EV for a road use tax.
Some states already are!
Still paying a heck of alot less than any of my last 15 cars.
If I'm not mistaken I have 8 years or 100,000 miles warranty on the battery. I have no intention of running it past the warranty. So far my 2023 F-150 Lightening Platinum is the best truck I have ever owned. Highly recommend it. Faster than a Raptor and smoother than a Lincoln. The Blue Oval Charging network is the best. I charge at Tesla super chargers and Electrify America while on road trips. No issues. Love it or hate it, this is the future. The tech will only get better and better.
Good video. I have a 2020 F150 with a 5.0… I bought it new in September 2020. I currently have have 6,409 miles on it. I’m retired and due to the pandemic we had I didn’t go on vacation anywhere. For me an EV doesn’t make sense at all. Even if there hadn’t been a pandemic it would have only added maybe 2,800 miles to my mileage total. So if you factor in the cost and damage to the environment it takes to mine and dispose of EV batteries I’m coming out way ahead. Plus I have never seen an EV charger anywhere in my hometown except a dealership or a nice hotel….
Talking about mining is bad, how bad is it when there is an oil spill? How about no more toxic fume polluting the city air? The materials to make battery mine once and ~95% of the material can be recycled and reused multiple times when the battery is at end of life, can oil be recycled? A battery can last over 500k miles.
A battery can last 500k miles!!?? I want what you're smoking
@@lanemorrow7417 it's true there are many teslas hitting 300k with 0 issues on the original battery. You don't get, these batteries are meant to outlast the car.
@@robertomeza5045 document your claim or it didn't happen
@@lanemorrow7417
The battery can last 5 years max according to wikipedia and then you at least $35k to replacement the entire battery plus the labor cost and additional taxes 😅
Try carrying a "gallon of electricity" from the fuel station to a stranded out-of-electricity EV. It is far easier to carry a gallon of gasoline to a truck w/ an internal combustion engine.
Who tf runs out of gas? 🤦♂️ If you run out of gas or electricity just surrender your license
Ok grandma 😂
@@TheV8nissan Apparently you never saw this story of a tourist with an EV car that ran out of charge near a coal mine in West Virginia. So he had to have his car pushed by several miners to the coal mine so that he could charge his battery. >> Google it.
14 cents a KW, I just divide my electric bill by kw hours used to get a more accurate picture of cost, it was 18 cents a kwh. Many people don't have garages to charge their vehicles so you may want to give us 2 numbers with one charging at these superchargers. I believe some of them charge 50 cents a kwh. That would really give a clearer picture of actual cost.
Off peak charging (between 7 pm and 7 am) costs 7.1 cents a kWh in Ontario (Canadian $ so a 30% discount on the currency exchange)🤷🏼♂️
@gerhardk98
That .makes the Electric even more economical if charging at home
Does anyone else see a massive road use tax on EV's after all the hype is over? Me thinks I do.
You are right about the road use tax. Some talk in several states about a fee per mile driven, that opens a whole new can of worms. EV's are about money and control, the planet is gonna survive with or without them. If you believe the nut jobs, the world will end in 8 years, so why worry? How dare you!!??#@#!#
Of course, that is the plan. Its only cheap now to make people buy them.
They are already doing that in the U.K, taxing by the mile
How about the cost of the electric motor replacement if they go out
Those range from 2-3k.
on the other side of that, How about the cost of the transmission when that goes out. ICE vehicles definitely have more parts that wear out and require maintenance than EV's.
@@darpompie4354 So, the ICE owner will get nickel and dimed to death, usually spending no more than $1500 in one trip, but, when the EV batteries go bad, you're looking at $20k+ immediately. Also, those battery warranties aren't transferable to the next owner. Even an average auto accident could destroy an EV battery, which will still cost $20k, or more.
@@Truth_Matt3rs I own a business where we have both Ice and EV vehicles (our 1st EV is 8 years old now). Batteries, like engines/transmissions are designed to work for the life of the vehicle. 300K+ miles. You guys are talking like it's a normal occurrence to replace a battery. No... it's not normal. Do engines/transmissions fail under 100k miles. Generally no but it does happen. So does that mean because it happened to bob that every one buying an ice vehicle should be prepared to pay for an engine/transmission replacement. Just like anything else, there are going to be failures and that includes batteries. The difference is, if a battery is bad, it usually fails right away. With an 8 year warranty, this is a non issue.
It's also not normal for a battery to be destroyed in an "average" accident like you state. They are generally placed between the reinforced frame. If the accident is so sever that it gets to the point that the battery is "destroyed" the vehicle would be a write-off regardless if it were an EV or Ice. There is by far a much better chance that the engine would be destroyed in an average frontal crash, where as the EV would have a much cheaper frunk to repair.
@@Truth_Matt3rs It is federally mandated that ev's have a 8 year 100,000 mile warranty that is transferable
What about resale!
On a 10 year old lightning?
What's the resale on a 10 year old f150 with 200k?😬🤔
No one cares
The batteries are the fuel storage system. Replacing the electric motors is the equivalent of replacing the engine. Replacing the gas tank is the equivalent of replacing the batteries. What is the expected lifespan of the battery system? Will they last for 200,000 miles?
I was watching a mechanic friend of mine working on an EV. He pointed to this big plastic box and said, “That’s the integrated power assembly. When that thing goes the best thing to do is replace the whole fucking car.”
Yes, a lot of people seem to forget that the battery is just an extremely heavy and complex fuel tank, compared to a gas fuel tank the differences are night and day.
You can also factor in junkyard parts for the gas truck and if the truck is cared for it will last way longer than 200k. Gas trucks are cheaper, better for the environment and can do the work that trucks are supposed to do. Eventually the ev will become a paperweight that is very difficult to recycle. Gas trucks can run until the frame rots out and most regular shops can work on them
In Michigan, add in the yearly electric vehicle tax. Our governor never seems to mention the hidden costs (the tax, tires, high speed charger) and the Ford pickups that burned up while they were park in a factory storage area, but she has set an impossible deadline for us to be green.
Great stuff. Something that was not mention was the oil changes, coolants change. And transmission service. I think both have pros and cons depending on where you live.
A gas engine never ever needs to be replaced at 200k miles, but a battery has specific charging cycle life and will be needed to be replaced in 200k or even less.
Incorrect. These ev batteries are meant to outlast the car. There are plenty of teslas hitting 300k+ miles on the original battery with 0 issues
Meanwhile Teslas are at the bottom of the JD power reliability survey tests results, rubbish cars!
@3UZFE So because it's in JD Power is must be true right? How about relying on real world examples like people who drive them. I personally owened an M3P and it was awesome and not a single fault. I hit 220K miles with zero issues, let me repeat that zero issues. Anyone I know who has a Tesla also has not had issues. I purchased a F150 lighting lariat and it's awesome..hey don't belive everything you read on the internet including this post 😂
Don't forget to add the cost of restaurant, coffee shop and other expanse waiting chaging ........
At the end.......is no saving...and when the battery is done...is like a cell phone...just throw out and buy another one....
Also, with the regular 5.0 you can swap a motor for $2000 in the competitive market....swapping battery you have to go to the dealer$$$$$$
Christian, you make an amazing point. I watch a lot of electric vehicle vids and they guys always have to do lunch while waiting for their cars to charge. And at night, nothing is open so those poor shmucks are stuck waiting by their electr cars, in the cold or rain.
@@henryjoshual1848 takes about 20 min to fast charge. Or be sensible and charge at home over night
Good luck
Filled up 2022 F150 Lariat Hybrid Powerboost, showed 1029kms to empty. Drove home 155kms away in heavy traffic, and when reached home, it showed 1139kms to empty and needle still showed full tank. Ha, ha, there you go, this is why I purchased a Hybrid and not the full EV.
So, the takeaway I'm getting is that in the worst the F150 Lightning is on par with gas powered F150s for cost of ownership.
Don't underestimate the cost of "freedom."
I know several people who put more than 200K miles on Coyotes that showed no loss in performance. My Gen 1 Lightning is nearly 30 years old and never had any powertrain issues. My best friend put over 300K miles on his Gen 1 Lightning and it was still running strong with no oil consumption. Yeah, I'm gonna stick with what I have.
There is no reason to be FORCED into an electric vehicle. I own a Ford F-150 XLT 5.8L WITH 300,000 miles on it. Original engine, trans, differential. It gets 12 mpg. Uphill or down, loaded or empty, it don't care. I didn't buy it for mileage, I bought it for work. And it does that well. It gets routine maintenance and 87 octane.
I guess the other factor is enjoying the nice V8 melody for 200,000 miles - priceless! vs a silent dull affair. No brainer in that regard.
Great video guys. I was looking at the Lightning recently and started looking at all the videos from Lightning owners and info channels such as your own. After researching the Lightning, now more than ever, I am thankful I found a two-year old Ford F150 4x4 (V8) with 8100 miles in 2022 and made that purchase for $39,000.00 instead. I think another factor for the Lightning is depreciation. Over time, Ford will have a very good idea of the actual mileage life they are getting on those batteries. Knowing the estimated battery life left will be huge when it comes to those trade-in values.
This also isn't taking into account the maintenance charges on a gas truck, or the fact that the cost of the battery will come down over time as economies of scale come into play. In ten years there will be better batteries that will be cheaper that could be installed, so in theory you could have a new battery that give you a larger range as well.
All of these trucks are nice as long as they are under the factory warrantee, after that I just cant see anyone wanting one.
Literally a throw away item after that.
I'm still driving my 96 Tacoma which I purchased new November of 95, only has 300,000 miles.
Now thats suitability!
Good for you😂
Video summary, $40k for a new battery. $13k for a new gas engine.
You won't have to replace the entire battery. These batteries are meant to outlast the car. Teslas are hitting 300k+ on the original battery with 0 issues
You’ll never have to replace more than a module at a time
@@leviconner you probably could pick up a used or refurb module too.
With a new ice engine you have a complete new engine but,
with a new battery or battery components you do NOT have have a complete engine because the electric motors motors (which are the ones actually produce the necessary power to push the vehicle as an ice engine does), will still need to be replaced.
So, in order to really compare the cost between an ev and an ice vehicle it should be: battery + electric motors vs ice engine.
Have fun
Here are some of the many problems with the "equal cost at 200k" example you gave at the end:
1. The Lightning is roughly 15k more up front. (ICE starts at 34,585 vs EV 49,995) You might say "well configs are different" ok compare an XLT crew cab 5.0 vs XLT lightning with extended range and it's even bigger at 52,290 vs 71,635, so 19,345 difference. Basically 20k.
2. You vastly underestimated electricity cost while overestimating gas costs. Sure, it's cheaper to charge at home, but are you really going to only charge at home? Of course not. Electrify America common rate is 48 cents per kWh. $3.93/gal was basically an all time high. It's 50 cents cheaper than that currently, and it's $2.71 for me (on the east coast). Furthermore, the national average per kWh is 23 cents, almost double what you quoted. So you vastly overestimated gas price and vastly underestimated electricity price. Electricity will also go way up in price as we quadruple demand with new EVs but I digress.
It looks like you're saying 200,000 miles at .479 kWh per mile at 14 cents per kWh. Ok, now what if we say 23 cents per kWh at home (which it is) instead of 14 cents, plus some charging on the road at 48 cents, let's say you're averaging 32 cents per kWh to be a little more accurate. That would give a cost of $30,674.29 per 200k miles for electricity. Then let's do the same for the gas. Looks like you're using 19.65 mpg so 200k/19.65 is 10,178 gallons of gas at 2.71 equals $27,582.70. Lmao, it's cheaper to fuel the gas vehicle! Unless of course you never drive the EV anywhere and need to charge it outside of your home (which is unrealistic). Even if you bumped down the electricity price to the national average and ONLY charged at home, it would still be $22,047.14. So, over the course of 200k, assuming 15k miles per year, you'd save........ $415.17 per year in fuel. When we are talking about a TCO (a true TCO, not a fuel up cost like you guys did) of over $100,000, 415 dollars is nothing. So yeah, 71.6k for the truck, 22,047 for juice, average car insurance of around 1800 bucks a year (for a > 70k truck keep in mind), that's 23,999.94 in insurance over that same time period of 13.3333 years (200k miles/15k miles per year). Plus maintenance and tires and EV charger and all that stuff, your actual TOTAL cost of ownership is going to be at least 120k over 13.333 years. Just for some perspective of how little the 415 dollar annual fuel "savings" will be. But we can drop off insurance since it will likely be similar (though EV insurance will be more but we can let that slide).
If we JUST look at purchase price and fuel price, let's just say 25k for juice with minimal public chargings, you're at about 97k. ICE will be around 80k. So almost 20k less. Then consider depreciation. A 10 year old XLT is worth, what, 25k? Nobody is going to pay 40k to replace a battery pack on a vehicle worth 25k but they WILL pay 9k or so for a brand new engine. Meaning a 100k mile 8 year old truck or older will be worth WAY more as an ICE than an EV. These 10 year old EVs are going to have TERRIBLE resale value, because they could be totaled at any moment if the battery grenades. Not true with ICE. So the financials just aren't at all competitive. And yeah, don't come at me with the 7500 maximum tax credit. IF you can even get 100% of that, cool. It pays for the charger and puts 5k back in your pocket. You're still in the hole for 15k at least. Probably a LOT more if you ever need a new battery since you'll lose 25k equity in the vehicle at 100%, vs around 9k out of 25k for the ICE. Best case scenario you lose $15,000. Worst case, you lose over $50,000 (total truck equity if you have an out of warranty issue call it +25k, +20k purchase price, +3k fuel cost, higher insurance since it's a much more expensive vehicle, 2k electrician cost, if you don't get all of the tax credit, etc).
3. Despite paying massively more money AND having a lot more risk, lower resale value, etc., YOU GET A WORSE TRUCK! The EV Lightning can tow like 80 miles before running out of battery on a full, extended range charge (for around 7500 lbs I think?)! The ICE can tow like 2.5x that far. And you can get the 36 gallon tank add on option for like 600 bucks extra? So you could tow like 4x as far? And then you can refill in 5 minutes and go another 4x. What happens when you're towing with the ev and need a charge? You gotta wait another hour for another 80 miles of range (and pay that much higher fuel price btw). And fine, even if you don't need to tow, the 5.0 with the extended range fuel tank can go 707 miles! Compared to like 300 with the EV.
What are the advantages of the EV? It has a faster acceleration? Lol who cares? You can charge it at home and don't have to go to the gas station? Ok, that's a benefit, but when you consider that it takes like 8-12 hours to charge at home, vs 5 minutes at a gas station, I don't even know if that's a benefit.
At the end of the day, EVs are a horrible value proposition. They are basically only good for rich people who DON'T actually need a truck. If you have more money than sense, AND have a spare ICE vehicle for road trips/emergencies, AND you only drive a few miles to get your groceries, then sure, it's fine. But for 99% of us, it's worse. And for most of those, it's WAY worse.
TL:DR EVs suck.
A few bad points you made: Charging at home is cheapest, and you added some places have free charging - great - but you failed to mention how often people will fast charge at a rate of let's round to $0.50/kWh. That's going to significantly offset the fuel savings. Also if like most EVs tires will last half the time and therefore cost 2x.
I'm an EV fan, but these few missed points can really change the math.
Not to mention the 8100 I got quoted to install a charger at my home...otherwise it's days to charge on 110v
@@youtubecantsaveallthesnowf8601 Old home with very low number of amps of service? Or massive home with electric far far away from garage? That is quite insane price for a charger install. Most are $1000 - $3000 for homes with 200 amps service.
@Steve Radich home is 12 years old, I have city power drop on corner of my property and home has massive solar array and tesla batteries. Was looking at the hummer ev and was quoted that for charger. So I bought a denali xl instead. Was looking to replace my honda civic commuter with a tesla but the charger issue is holding me back.
How much is it for the electric motor that pushes that lighting to a 5.0 engine that would be the comparable.
Electric motors are about 3500.
Don't really care how much a battery swap costs. Really! My concern is what happens to the old battery?
They are about 95% recyclable. Cells can easily just be interchanged. Look at the price of prius battery's. You can get remanufactured prius batteries for around 2k
Oil changes, belts, transmission, injectors, filters, etc etc etc for 200k worth of maintenance on the gas vehicle completely left out of your calculations. My 1996 f250 just cost $175 to do inspection and oil change (oil $8/quart). The lightning has much less maintenance to perform over the same 200 k. Also, ev components have an 8 year warranty- which by 200k would likely be exhausted but want that compared to the warranty on the 5 liter. Last of all, I’d hope my lightning can be “upgraded” to a longer range ‘ better chemistry battery by the time I’ve put 200k on it. I agree that you need to look at the whole picture but that’s just what you didn’t do by disregarding gas vehicle maintenance costs. I have a much bigger change than you mention - f250 with 7.5liter @ 10mpg (7.5 mpg towing) vs lighting at about 35 mpge when towing. Sure the range is short, but it works for my use case and I can charge for free using 50-amp sockets at RV parks…
I own a 2000 F250 and it's an expensive dinosaur 😂 the fan boys are cluless
I've heard, that even an average car accident, that wouldn't total an ICE vehicle, could destroy an EV's battery, which could cost $20k, or more to replace.
I drive an average of 150 miles a week. 7800 miles a year. That's 25.6 years before I'll have 200,000 miles on my lightning. I'll be over 98 years old, if I were to live that long. I'd be surprised if I'll still be driving any truck or car. My warranty will be expired in 8 years. I can't imagine the changes that will take place with EV'S in just 5 years. I may have my lightning traded in by then.
Not really a lot of changes coming, just more of the same, more complexity, more designed obsolescence. Lithium battery tech is almost 50 years old, so if they had something better it would already be here.
@@3UZFEsolid state batteries
Those are some fantastic labor rates. What about all the maintenance the 5.0 has in comparison to the minimum maintenance from the lightning to hit that 200k mile mark?
Very true! You can drill down the data until you’re blue in the face! Maintenance savings are a real thing!
I came here to comment on the maintenance costs which would be a lot higher in the ICE vs BEV. That would play into the total cost of ownership.
Without using the maintenance data you are comparing the worst case scenario on the BEV against the best case scenario on the ICE.
You’re not even counting the 40 oil changes cost on the 5.0.
My dealer would charge me 100 for an oil change but they would always include something else.
Nah... let's talk about all the strip mining needed to get the raw materials to build these batteries. Toys, tools, bicycles, phones, computers... everything is battery powered now.
What is used to do all this strip mining by the way? Massive diesel powered machines.
Stop acting like Electric Vehicles are the answer when they most obviously are not.
John Stossel has an excellent two part series on EVs (Coal Burners) and how the planet is being destroyed.
It amazes me how EVs are referred to as Clean Energy when they are anything but. The most pristine areas are now being destroyed in South America, Africa etc... just so more and more batteries can be built.
Look at one of our major problems right now... used and out of date solar panels. It now takes more energy to recycle a solar panel than the amount of energy that panel produced during its lifetime.
Also... look at the massive power grid overhaul that will be necessary to keep these batteries juiced up. Already California is begging people not to charge their EVs (Coal Burners) during the day!
Clean Energy... just another feel good term.
Aren't they forgetting about The Upfront cost of the lightning that nearly double what the other F-150 cost
Very deceptive video super tiptoeing around proper issues and maintenance of both trucks. Start with the Gas F150 the odds of ever replacing that engine towards 200k is possible but unlikely especially if the truck is well maintained and taken care of. On the F150 Lightening you will be replacing that whole battery pack around 10 years into its life. That's around the same time most tesla and other EV's have them replaced. Witch is caused by the batteries themselves breaking down and loosing chargeability and capacity yearly. I will not even get onto out right cost of both new to own and how most Ev's its almost impossible to be serviced anywhere but where you bought it so the repair costs are going to be threw the roof. Where as the gas F150 you will have no issue's repairing it yourself or at any mechanic you choose. So if your going to do price points and 200k speculation to influence people to go EV you should use all the data not cherry pick. At this point EV's are a cool Luxury item and somewhere down the line maybe 50+ years from know when we have way better battery tech they might be feasible for daily use for everyone but we are no where at this point yet. I personally will stick with my 26 year old Jeep Wrangler with original motor and transmission etc. That from some good care runs great and starts like a new car at its age. And cost me nothing monthly but gas cause its owned and to point this out that pretty much the same view of most drivers. it just not cost effective to pay 40- 100k plus have to spend around 10k just to charge a car when my current one cost me 0 to add anything to my home or makes me wait for it for 45min to hours to fill up gas takes a few min and your done.
Theres no shot that one half of the cost to manufacture EVs is in the battery... yet every time i look at an ev battery replacement cost its AT LEAST half the cost of the original retail price. Brutal. it truly takes away all incentive. even if the electricity is free!! you'll never find a break even point, it will always be more costly than a gasoline engine.. and far less convenient.
Three more things.
1. As demand for electricity continues to increase, so will the price of electricity.
2. There will come a time when we reach peak recharging during daytime because additional electricity generating stations aren’t being procured fast enough to keep up. This means bottlenecks, brownouts and blackouts, unless you have your own private source, such as a home solar panel installation.
3. Governments currently collect hefty taxes on gasoline and diesel to fund construction and maintenance of road infrastructure. At the moment, EV’s get a free pass, but this won’t last. Already, Texas has begun taxing EV’s annually to collect the shortfall.
Regular maintenance on both?
Oil changes up the whazooo until you die 😂
The battery range does drop but it is not considered a failure. Just plan on driving less in the future between charges.
RUclips did not make finding your new channel easy. Glad I did. Howdy Mr Watts
I disagree with one thing. If you're factoring in the savings in fuel, EV vs. gas then you should factor in the cost of the trucks at purchase. This will make a big difference in the actual savings
Free charging at supermarket in New York Stop & Shop free charging at Amazon supermarket👍
Costs: I'm guessing that tire replacement is far more frequent due to weight of the vehicle.
Yes!
I think the thing that would finally get everyone to switch to electric would be battery swap. Tesla dabbled with this early on but abandoned it. But I think this would relieve everyone’s anxiety. Have a subscription service that let you battery swap instead of charging. Would be a automated gas station type of place you just pulled through and a robotic system would drop the battery out and install a new one. This would get rid of range anxiety and the time having to wait for charging. But also the unknowns about how much will the car lose in range over time.
I think EVs should come with a small battery with maybe 150 miles of range. That’s perfect for around town stuff. Use that most of the time while charging at home. Also the car would be much lighter with 1/3 the battery giving you better range per kWh and better performance in acceleration and breaking. Make cars safer on the road if they’re lighter. Then if you want to go on a trip stop at the battery place and swap in a removable high capacity battery in under 5 minutes.
It’s really the perfect solution for the customer and the manufacturer. It makes EVs cheaper to buy. Let’s them manufacture more because you need less raw material to make smaller batteries. Cars are safer. And gives a income to the manufacturers or dealers because people will be buying the battery service from them for the life of the car. Make the battery swap costs 1/2 price of gas. Put solar on the stations and you have a net zero road trip.
In the areas of the car that are oddly shaped, install the permanent batteries that conform to the cars angles. But leave a big square universal sized bay in the bottom for battery swaps. Let’s have all the manufacturers agree on a voltage and size and the design to allow anyone to make a device that allows the battery to be dropped. No patent on the swapper.
Plus there are companies in Europe and China that already do this. Let’s use their data.
People be like ohhh but I don’t know how someone treated the battery I get and it might have issues. So. Get another one. Let the battery swap place worry about that. Plus they have the resources to take a battery out and service it if a cell goes bad. Or won’t hold a charge. It costs a few bucks for a company like that to repair a cell. You’d have to replace the whole battery module costing thousands.
Plus I think people will find they won’t be using a big battery most of the time anyway.
10,000 miles a year is standard. Not 20k.
So when I drive from Cali.to Wyoming I will only have to stop 5 times and charge 25 minutes each, just like stopping for gas?
These batteries especially Tesla’s are going 500,000 miles plus. Gas car lasts 200,000 miles and/or 12-15 years then too expensive too repair. Even if batteries 50% you can give second life as a house battery like a power way. I never realized how much maintenance was required on a gas car until I bought a new Tesla model x 5 years ago. 70,000 miles just tires as maintenance. Never been to a service center. These cars can last forever. I charge at home with solar and save thousands if buying gas.
EV’s are high performance powertrains. Replacing a high performance Mercedes engine is $50,000
How many charge cycles is 200thousand miles? I think the battery will continually get less miles the older it gets.
Question is......how many people do you think will be lined up to buy a preowned Lightning with a battery that's out of warranty???? $30k battery vs a $15k engine is a no brainer. These electric truck values will absolutely tank when the warranty expires!!! I wouldn't touch one!
What's the battery warranty on the Ford Lighting? My BMW was 8 years.
These savings comparisons are always botched because the fuel cost is rarely the highest cost of ownership of a vehicle.
Add depreciation into the equation and even if you get energy for free and do not need to change the battery, you will not break even before 10 years.
If you consider that the vast majority of first owners never keep the vehicle for 10 years, it is a (additional) loss any way you look at it.
Battery and motor are not the same. The lighting still has a motor that could just as well go bad. Just as the 302 could.
EV is not a planet or wallet saver.
But it could be fun to drive
Gas V8 will still sound better, making that more fun to drive.
I think ford should start using LFP batteries to save them selves from the hastles of battery issues and cement a good reputation from the start for the lightning from the start as a reliable vehicle .
That's an insane amount. NIO will swap your battery for FREE every time you want.
What’s NIO?
I have ordered a 2022 F-150 Powerboost as of Feb01 that I still have not received :( Can you tell me over time what is the cost going to be, to replace a Powerboost battery? Thx K
When comparing EV's Combustion/Gasoline vehicles, there is 1 element that ALWAYS gets left out of the debate. Yes, with an EV charging at home & at Charge Stations it cost less than filling up with gas especially when there are free EV charging places to use & the gift of vouchers. Yes, as we saw in this video, if both engines blew out, the $53k price is almost equal. But, what gets left out is, along the way to your 200k miles & 10 yrs of ownership, the only maintenance on the EV is tires but the gasoline vehicles get oil & filter changes every 3 months, breakage of radiators, air filters, spark plugs, need tuneups, muffler, Cadallac Converter, gasket leaks, & other parts that fail throughout the life of the vehicle. So i say the gasoline vehicle would cost way more over time than an EV.
The chances of that engine failing is far greater the the EV battery. If the battery gets passed the 100,000 warranty period without failing, it will almost certainly go well beyond 200,000 miles.
I believe your cost of battery is not realistic, that’s a price if you walked in just buy one…let’s think about core charges for parts or the fact many companies will pop up to refurbish batteries in the future. You will most likely not need to buy brand new, just like an engine or electric motor for that matter.
🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌
Why would you need to replace the battery on your lightning? I don’t know if you’re aware, but it can be taken apart and any bad cells in there can be replaced
Did you include the state road maintenance tax that states are charging? In Al that is an extra $200 per year
It was -52C with the windchill this week -35 without. We get at least 4 months of below 0C. No way the batteries last 200k.Maybe in California, not here.
Yeah but they will only let you charge them in CA when the power grid is working haha
Get a life lol
Get Rekt son, build a fire under your 7. 3 I guess
You need to compare apples to apples. What does the top of the line raptor motor replacement cost? The TRX hellcat crate motor is around 50G
Yeah but that's not a fair comparison.
@@alexzabala2154 because?
@@78Terp a well maintained gas engine, barring any unforseen circumstances, can last 200k miles or more. We dont have any idea how the Ford lightning batteries will work in the real world. Whet about extreme temeprature environments?
Take for example my closed garage in Phoenix AZ in the summer. It can reach temperatures of 120 or more inside...that can have a detrimental effect on the life of the batteries...that's not including even driving around or the detrimental effects of fast charging at the stations. That of course is just me thinking out loud based on research. I'm not against having a lightning..
@@alexzabala2154 unforseen can apply to EV's too. But the fact is more ICE vehicles burn than EV's.
They conveniently left out the road use tax many states impose on EVs to make up for the loss in gas tax!
Yeah in Georgia it was an extra $200 for my tag since I wouldn't be buying gas.
As more EVs hit the road those taxes will increase to make up for lost revenue from gasoline sales
There should be a credit for the value of the old battery.
Is possible to add more modules to make your standard range to extended range?
Probably not but nothing is impossible. , buy what you need
Great video. Well done sir!
In CA I get on my Lightning 35-40 MPG equivalent charging at home // 18-20 MPGe at public chargers
I wonder what the value of a f150 battery pack is after it’s life cycle has been used. Seems like a lot of potential value there.
If you have to worry you can't afford it😂
Did you take in to consideration the cost of oil changes and maintenance between the two I think the Lightning will be the better choice
should have added in the cost of oil changes over 200k miles for the 5.0l
It's probably cheaper than replacing a $35,000 plus battery pack!!
20 oil changes at 50-100 bucks. Between 1 and 2 thousand dollars.
For me, personally, this comparison is a moot point. I will only buy a truck like this if I'm going to need to tow a trailer once in a while. For the electric truck, the range when towing is nearly non-existent. Therefore it is not a truck. I've owned a diesel Chevy Colorado for 7 years. I have recently sold all the trailers that I own. So I'm selling the truck. It has a 300 to 400 mile range when towing. It can be "recharged" in about 10 minutes. I would never own a truck that has an 80 mile towing range, and takes hours to recharge. Not to mention, you might have disconnect the trailer in order to recharge. If you're going to drive to Home Depot and buy a sheet of plywood once in a while, maybe this truck works. But, in that case, you can rent a truck from Home Depot super cheap.
Mention the warranty of the battery against the warranty of the Gasoline motor by the Manufacturer that plays a big part in battery cost to owner.
As batteries become more mainstream, the cost will go down. It wouldn’t surprise me if they were fifty percent less in eight years
Here's the problem the way I see it. Yes, MAYBE they are close to the same cost of ownership in 200,000 miles BUT all the EV owners I see commenting on line bragging about fuel, oil, tune ups etc aren't likely stashing away that "saved" money so when (not if) the battery gives out they have the money to repair it. True, the gas engine MAY need to be replaced (not as likely in my opinion if maintained) but it may be easier to come up with the money to repair the engine (maybe with used) at 13K as opposed to 40-50K for a battery. Don't get me wrong, I think the CONCEPT of electric is OK but I don't think battery technology is good enough, at least for my purposes. Maybe some day.
Requesting that on this channel you refer to yourself with the alias Mitchell “Kilo” Watts.
Question? Aren’t these batteries covered with a 10 year warranty? Can’t they be replaced for free up to 10 years?
But this would be either after warranty or if you did something yourself to damage the battery, corrrect?
That is correct. You have an 8 year / 100,000 mile electrical warranty.
Electrical devices always love to fail outside of the warranty period.
10 percent sales tax in Alabama???? WTF, and people SCREAM about Chicago's sales tax being *10.25%* and cite this "tax" specifically about being the main reason they moving out of state. LMAO.
Battery replacement of $40,000 to replace the entire battery, And replacing individual cells is idiotic. You can drive an F250 ice farther then 200,000.
You must have missed out on the 6.0 & 6.4 power stroke days.
Each module = 4400 a piece excluding labor. Battery pack 40k to replace for extended range and 32k for standard range. Your welcome
The f-150 lightning is impressive, but I think pickups are a bad choice for EVs. Batteries are heavy and expensive, and to get a vehicle like a pickup truck to do pickup truck things it takes a lot of power and has a lot of drawbacks when it comes to battery performance. in my opinion the right way to design an electric vehicle is to make one as small as possible to minimize the weight you are hauling around and make it very aerodynamic to keep highway mileage up.... They should be coming out with the equivalent of a mazda miata but electric, I bet that thing could get 200 miles on a comparatively very small battery, probably something like 40 Kwh
They compared the wrong stuff, it should be how much it cost to replace the fuel tank in ICE truck! Then how much it cost to replace the EV motor vs the ICE Engine!
That’s Lightning is lucky if it even gets close to 80k without replacing the battery. I’ll put my money on the F150 to last 200k
In 100,000 miles of driving my Lightning will save me 15,000 dollars. My power is only 0.068 cents per KWH. This is compared to my Toyota Tundra at 16 MPG. Well cared for batteries may last to 240,000 miles. FYI.
It comes with 8 year 100K mile warranty. You may be able to get a solid state battery for a fraction of the cost by then so who cares?
My local shop mentioned that they will not be servicing or working on EVs , the amount of safety precautions required, rubber screens on walls etc. isn't worth it to them .
Sucks to suck
You also need to cover rhe cost of gas tgat keeps increasing. While batteries are getting better and lower in cost.
What about accidents since the battery & components aren't confined to just the front 3rd of the vehicle.
Wake up these EV are great as a second or third car or you live in a sunny climate and own your own solar panels to charge up your EV ( there’s no such thing as Zero Emissions)
-EV are just expensive road legal “golf carts”...
-unlike gas that is very versatile & flexible powering everything from cars,trucks,boats,planes,generators in all kinds of temperatures & weather conditions EV batteries are “delicate” need their own climate environment to prevent them from overheating or freezing..
EV vehicle’s are just like your iPhone or Android smartphones..after a few years when the batteries 🔋 lose their lustre & power or a newer gadget laden EV rolls out people will ditch their EV cars for a newer version more frequently..just like your smartphone..
I still own & run a few jeeps made in the early 1990’s they are daily driven.. my newest vehicle I own is my 2006 Hummer and it has no problem starting and running in minus -49 fahrenheit & buried in 6 feet of snow up here in northern Canada 🇨🇦 where we out winters last 9 months ..
Very interesting
How many miles the Lightning can go before the batteries die. The Coyote might go over 200k miles if well maintained and treated might go more to 250k or even more.
This is assuming all of your charging would be done at home which you won't and electricity rates [gasoline too] are not going to increase over the next ten years.
ignores the oil changes, extra brakes, etc of the gas truck.. but yeah... they are on par except for the ghg content. But can hope for better recycling in the future so you actually get a core value back on your existing battery, as it is actually worth something.
I don't understand why every time they do comparison they mid represent. Hear me out:
When you say drive units in a gas unit. You talk about the motor when is a EV you talk about the battery which is incorrect. If a drive unit is engine transmission axle in a EV a power electronics module( Battery), and the transmission line from it to the electronic motors, To be a fair comparison, you have to include the motors with the batteries on .EV. Compared with the gas unit is just the engine. So what would be the cause between the two pickups if you replacing the drive unit by this definition