I made my reservation without consideration of any potential tax credits, and Aptera has enough of a performance margin for my needs that it won't make a significant change in my decision.
100% agree. As a startup company, Aptera will need as many customers as possible. This $7,500 tax credit will have negative effects if they are not included.
@@cliff101georges Also agree. But there are few if any EVs that qualify at present, so the competitive disadvantage won't come for awhile. There is still time to address some of these issues.
Aptera will be competing with EVs but especially hybrids at this price point. Quite a few lower cost hybrids already qualify. Customers buying cars below $30,000 are more price sensitive. I think Aptera will have to work hard to show middle income households why Aptera is the right choice for a second or third car.
@@apterareboot1555 While you are probably correct, a comparison of the monthly running costs shows that cost of ownership is MUCH lower for Aptera, and for some owners can even pay off the entire cost of the car over the projected ownership life.
Many RUclipsrs comments EVs will not be eligible as written as of 2023 anyway due to material source requirements for the battery. The original version of the bill included a $2500 for motorcycles/3wheelers which was at least something. Canadian incentives are lower dollar amounts but many provinces still have helmet/license requirements. I think they will still sell some units despite the disadvantage but it would definitely limit them.
contact your local congressman. they all have election offices now so go there talk to the office manager and their campaign manager and explain this to them that will help tremendously. but please please remember to be respectful when you talk to them
I guess Aptera need to rush their production because no doubt it that autocicle could be really good.. but soon I'll be coming to many electrics cars on 2023 and 2024... I got my reservation already on Aptera.. but things can change...
Great video. Thanks for all the research. One other thing is that the Aptera will not be such a burden on the electricity grid which everyone is worried about for California. My round trip commute when my company makes me start reporting to the office instead of working from home is only about 24 miles, so I’ll only ever plug it in if I drive somewhere far. I’d like to take it to Vegas for sure. I might only have to plug it in once for that trip with the 40Kwh battery and the full solar package.
For me, the credit is a non-factor. But I am buggers over efficiency and stabilizing the environment. And I think that if after it is not get to use the credit, your arguments are the best marketing technique. And even if the credit didn't exist, is the best marketing technique. The issue would be getting that information out more fully. That means more advertising cost, but it could be well worth it.
It is my understanding that none of the electric vehicles in the just past electric transportation show in San Diego qualify for the $7,500 tax credit due to various restrictions in the bill. Admittedly some cars that were not there do.
Price is still better than all real EV's but the Bolt so there ya go. The lack of a subsidy rankles, sure, but it isnt a market killer. The market killer will be too late into production, where would be owners move their sights to other offerings. Aptera needs to quit tweaking/ optimizing and start producing. At some point really really really soon the design engineers need to stop and the production engineers, line personnel, and marketers need to kick in high gear.
It's not just the three wheel vehicles that are not part of the credit. My understanding is that the batteries have to be fully made in the US. So any vehicle that has any part of its battery made outside of the US cannot use the credit. That balances the playing field a little bit more.
Add one more tire to the back. If the profiles are reduced the two could be placed together like a sandwich. If you also powered each independently you could have more steering. I reserved the all wheel drive model #scottfreeidea
The issue with that is if they could add 1 more tire the car would classify as a car but that would cause more issues/delays. Regulations covering requirements for cars is very different from those covering motorcycle.
Considering they were offering a federal tax credit on electric motorcycles and electric bicycles, I'm sure Aptera will get at least some tax credit. People who make less than 60k a year probably won't owe enough in federal tax to take advantage of the full $7500 credit anyway. Also, the ev credit is getting revamped to include a MSRP cap, only vehicles assembled in the US, and they are considering a smaller tax credit for purchasing a used ev. People are still buying new Teslas and they don't get a tax credit (although it might come back for them).
Since Aptera is getting its batteries from EVE (China), it probably would not have been eligible. They might have gotten half credit if the packs were assembled here.
Quite often government legislation fails to make total sense. In this case, excluding electric motorcycles and 3-wheel vehicles is an example. (0:13) We can thank the politician standing at the far left of the vid intro for this. However, the reality is that many people shopping for an affordable EV due to limited income, will not qualify for all the tax credit, if any at all, since you must owe $7500 in taxes. The choice of qualified EVs that are as affordable as the Aptera will be limited due to the bill's restrictions on manufacturing. Aptera is still very much alive & competitive. I will still buy one.
I agree with your sentiment on this miss. I see the issue is that this is for cars (4 wheels) which aptera deliberately avoided to bypass those required government standards (to avoid weight to meet more stringent safety standards). A better approach would have aptera to band with the other 2 or 3 wheel EV manufacturers ( like Harley Davison) to get an addendum to this or another bill. Just for them - Maybe smaller per unit in terms of support. I can not see, where if they (non-4 wheel EV’s) band together they can not convince a few congresspersons to meet their needs and still hold true to their purpose. My 2cents anyway.
The cybertruck will come with mirrors which Elon has said could easily be removed by owners (if it complies with state laws). Could the Aptera come with a fourth stabiliser wheel which could then be removed by owners after purchase? Or could the back wheel be changed for two narrow wheels taking up the same space as one fat wheel? Another option is to make the Aptera a 4 wheel vehicle to get this EV tax credit. Bollinger has shelved their pick up truck to now make vans. Aptera should pivot and make a 4 wheeler?
Me too. I would like to get the all wheel drive but in the rear if the profiles are reduced you could mount two placed together like a sandwich. If you also powered each independently you could have rear steering. I reserved the all wheel drive model #scottfreeidea They could save money if we could have front or rear power option. #scottfreeidea
that's a great idea, it could just be like a small plastic wheel on a cheap metal strut that could be like stuck on with temporary adhesive and removed after delivery. Just a wheel used to comply with the current regulations to qualify aptera for the credit time being. I don't see why it wouldn't work.
A different way of looking at this is despite the lack of government funding, with a rebate, the operational cost of ownership over the lifetime you will still be ahead without taking a rebate up front. The legislature is willy-nilly picking winners, and its citizens are on the hook, this is not free enterprise. But frankly, the people will still buy the Aptera because it is good enough to overcome the "rebate" which everyone pays for. Comparisions will be hard to ignore in the economic times which we are currently going through. Gasoline prices over $5.00/gallon, will make the Aptera very worth of the upfront cost. Cost benefit analysists of taking this slap in the face from our wonderful leadership, and still going ahead and purchasing the Aptera, would lead you to do it anyway. The icing on the cake would be a rebate, but ultimately, does not really matter. The advancements in efficiency more the offset the lack of rebate. Yes, I would love to have a rebate, but not having a rebate is fine with me, I just want my Aptera!!!!!
People will buy it anyway, no worries at all. If Aptera had the same lobby power (= legalized corruption) as GM or Ford they would have been included too. They are better off without it, gives them more freedom.
All Aptera has to do is add a couple of rods with springs and tiny wheels as outriggers at the rear underside of the vehicle and voila you have a 5-wheeler. Of course they would be easily removable at the owner's discretion once the $7500 discount kicks in.
Even if the could easily add more tires, that would not solve the issue. Aptera would have to abide by regulations covering cars which are far more stringent.
Great video on the absurdity of the anti-inflation law as passed. The reason it passed is because the sourcing language of the law means that few, if any, current EVs actually qualify for the incentive. This was a poison pill inserted into the legislation by Joe Manchin, who is personally invested in the fossil fuel industry as coal mining is a big deal in WVa. It is good that it passed even with the obviously absurd restrictions. Fifty years ago I worked in the office of the #3 in seniority US Senator and one day, his top adviser gave me a secret of success in Washington's morass. He said simply, "You have to know what you want (from government or you'll never get it). What I is to tie EV rebates to efficiency rather than just use of electricity for propulsion with a specific battery chemistry and four or more wheels. This kind of change puts the incentive in the 'right place': efficiency. For grins, let me suggest that the law be amended to allow battery sourcing as proposed as we do need production to begin shifting from China proper to more domestic production. - But lets add another layer to the incentive: something based on MPGe efficiency. To wit: No EV or hybrid PASSENGER vehicle with a MPGe lower than 90 qualifies. Those vehicles with MPGe >90 but 150 but less than 200 MPGe would get a $5500 rebate and those >201 MPGe or greater would get a $10,000. All these rebates are also restricted to passenger vehicles capable of carrying at least one driver and passenger that have passed with a 4-Star or higher safety rating as established by NHTSA testing for the full rebate. Those vehicles with a 3-star safety rating or less than 90 MPGe (but more than 60MPGe) qualify for a max $1,000 rebate hence providing incentives for all but the most grossly inefficient vehicles. I mean, what is not to like about a scheme of this sort. It puts a real incentive on efficiency while also emphasizing safety. What Aptera and their ambassadors don't quite grasp is that lobbying far and wide for this approach first off has a chance to succeed if the public gets it but more importantly making the effort is great way to enter the public square with a positive message about safety and efficiency. I mean yell it from the roof-tops.
Cool idea but I’m not sure the American market is valuable enough to manufacturers for them to design a vehicle around winning this incentive. Also, I don’t know these things work, especially in the states, but can’t the grant be amended at any time changing amount or qualifications? Struck down whenever?
I really like the Aptera, but I don't think it's well-known enough to have any significant lobbying effort put behind it. However, it IS very striking, and once more and more early adopters put them on the roads(and the vehicle works well) I'm sure it'll turn up the buzz about them and THEN will there be enough support to insert them into the tax credit. I'm sure the early adopters might be a little grumpy for not getting the credit, but they'll definitely help brand awareness.
@@TheHuxely The last time I looked, this is a policy decision between two paths to electrification of transportation. One is better for everyone's pocketbook and the environment. It distributes jobs to most markets that produce light efficient transportation, so much so solar generation can provide 90 percent of the vehicle's energy needs. The other lets a moribund industry that seeks to exploit a wasteful endeavor: building five ton vehicles that require a 200 kw battery and tax the grid requiring the proliferation of direct current chargers capable of providing 350 kw charging rates for each of four charging stations at a cost upwards of a quarter million dollars per unit. If you figure the overall costs of building the high power charging stations to 'fuel' grossly larger vehicles than 'anyone needs' we'll waste billions.
@@g.pattonhughes5991I am still not informed enough to have an idea of what a well fettled incentive program looks like or indeed whether incentives are ever a great and fair use of money when considered retrospectively. Do you have any examples? It’s not obvious to me what the best moves are to minimize waste and accelerate the transition simultaneously. Actually, we could push one at the expense of the other but who knows how to find the right balance there. Anyway it’s a complex problem.
I keep reading (in other videos, not just this one) of why Aptera SHOULD be included in the $7500 tax program, but nobody ever explains exactly why it is NOT. Is it because, as a 3-wheeled vehicle, it is considered a "motorcycle" and not a car? ... If that is true it continues to puzzle me because the regs (at least as I have seen them presented) base the credit on it being a "vehicle", not necessarily a "car". So, if it must be a "4-wheel car", then why not build a tiny little wheel barely touching the ground (perhaps behind the main rear wheel, so as not to spoil the aerodynamics), just to make it officially a 4-wheeled vehicle. Of course the writing on the wall would be clear. The regulatory agencies would then squawk that as a 4-wheeler, it must meet the more stringent "4-wheel car" safety regs. Sigh! 😵
Most EV's don't qualify because of the where the battery materials come from at this time. The bill is designed to encourage materials to be supplied by friendly countries. The comparisons supplied here do were not a consideration in this bill. If a bill can be passed that will benefit Aptera based on the the facts discussed here we will be better off.
This won't be a popular Comment, but that's no reason not to make it. 😁 I think that many EV devotees are wealthy enough not to give two hoots (🦉🦉) about the price of their next vehicle. There. I've said it. I bet that an Aptera won't be the sole purchase for many EV owners; they'll have several other vehicles of various sizes and capabilities - an EV pickup truck, an SUV, a little city runabout EV, an e-bike, an e-scooter... In other words, it'll be more of a novelty toy and fashion statement than an urgently needed 'personal transport solution'. Part of the attraction of an EV (any EV) in the west is its desirability as a status symbol. Much like buying an obscenely expensive mobile phone from a company with a fruit-based name, ownership confers a degree of specialness which reflects well on a person's position in society. Poor-shaming is real. Ask any kid what it feels like to have a £19.99 mobile phone from Argos when their classmates have been given the latest £1,000 i-Phones. You may not remember the Sinclair C5; it was a primitive recumbent-trike EV in the 1980s intended to replace the bicycle. It wasn't a success - the mechanical, electrical and electronic technology of the time wasn't up to the job - but a big part of the C5's failure was its lowly status. It aimed low. It wasn't big and brash and luxurious, like a modern EV. It didn't have room to carry two sets of golf clubs. It was tiny, humble, inefficient and (I'll be honest) pretty crude compared to even the most basic, battered, second-hand ICE vehicle at the time. Braying motoring journalists and sneering petrolheads queued up to mock it and its creator for daring to try to solve a personal transport problem by thinking small and simple. Made with modern motors, batteries, and an enclosed cabin, a C5 could be a winner. It might be argued that Arcimoto's relatively simple FUV and (to a lesser extent) the luxurious Aptera are the C5's natural successors, but they're very different beasts. They're built up to an aspiration, and not down to a need. They've got 'niche market' and 'chic' and 'boutique product' written all over them. And they're deliciously expensive. Mmmmm... Tax credit? Huh. So what if the Aptera works out to cost a few grand more. I don't think many people care. Fans and investors CERTAINLY won't care. EVs would be far less popular if they were available as cheap runabouts for peasants, as they are in places like China. There you can get a roadgoing electric vehicle for less than the price of an i-Phone. Imagine that. It won't be posh or plush or 'smart' or safe, but it'll get you around town on a minuscule budget. It'll carry your groceries and keep the wind and rain off you, and you won't need to pedal it. What more do you need? Nothing. What more do you WANT? Everything. Size. Strength. Airbags. Gadgets. Gizmos. Luxuries. Performance. Road presence. Status. The Aptera's huge on the outside but rather small on the inside. It seats two. Two? It could have been made a lot smaller and slimmer and more efficient with tandem (inline) seating like Arcimoto's FUV, but that's bad for its image. It reeks of 'bicycle', and bikes have got too many negative associations. Saving money with a tax credit isn't cool, either. It kinda sends out a 'desperate and impoverished pleb' vibe. If you need to claw back a measly $7,500, maybe you're lower class scum. Free school meals, Food banks. Free clothing vouchers. Soup kitchens. Sleeping in a ditch... Likewise, your tiny cheapo Chinese EV won't be cool. It won't impress the neighbours. It won't scream, "Look at me! Look what I've got!" A great big shiny Aptera will, and people are willing to pay whatever it costs to get that. A product that's reassuringly expensive will always sell. Members of the church of Tesla worship at the altar of their messiah's extreme wealth and cling to the idea that, one day, if their faith is strong, they'll be incredibly rich, too. Hooray. Buy stock now. Buy a Tesla, the credo goes, and Ego Muskrat himself will, metaphorically, fly you to Mars, Heaven's Gate style. Never mind saving this planet by consuming less - keep your eyes on the stars and keep dreaming. Oh, and keep making all those not-so-easy monthly payments. You can afford them, right? I mean, it's not as if you're... poor? (Ewwww!) EV snobbery is alive and well and plugging in to a supercharger near you. The Aptera doesn't need a tax credit price reduction; potential buyers won't care what it costs. It's a cool gadget and they want one. Want, want, want, now, now, now. Saving money isn't important. Not REALLY. Saving the planet isn't important. Saving face when parked next to a Muskrat-mobile is what matters. Bragging about drag coefficients and 'free' solar power matters. Rapid acceleration matters. Saving money has got nothing to do with it.
The democrats just shot Aptera in the face with a shotgun, and went out of their way to do it when they intentionally removed the clause that originally provided a credit for 3-wheelers. I see a lot of people here trying to minimize the damage this bill has done to Aptera, primarily by arguing that the bill is mostly useless due to the battery material sourcing restrictions that will kick in beginning in 2023. High praise, indeed! They wrote a cynical bill that is mostly useless beginning in 2023, but provides a talking point for the election that will impress the average Joe who isn't privy to the details. To the extent that any cars qualify, they are rewarding the biggest energy pigs on the road while punishing Aptera, who should be the poster child for the whole EV movement. Aptera should have been invited to the White House, preferably with its third wheel parked on top of Mary Barra, the leader in EV sales don't ya know. Others have argued that the lack of a credit won't change their mind or that a credit never figured into their decision to order an Aptera. I am in that category, but what a handful of extreme Aptera supporters think is irrelevant compared to the aggregate market. Once again, Uncle Sam has dealt a mighty blow to Aptera. I am of the opinion they will survive, but won't thrive like they should have until the playing field is leveled. Many in the green movement worship at the altar of government largess, when they should be worshiping at the altar of the innovation and risk taking embodied by the co-CEOs of Aptera, and let the market decide who is providing the best value proposition. Sadly, our government has picked the winners and losers, and Aptera is a huge loser.
Aptera offers solar and efficiency like none other those other cars basically don't pay you to drive them and they are all pricey. Aptera pays for life , not just one year on a over priced vehicle upsale anyway . Aptera has better price points always.
They also edited the bill in the senate and removed the $2500 for motorcycles and 3 wheelers (also spiritus, solo, archimoto etc). If it passed in this form it was still a disadvantage but wouldn't have been as bad. An argument could even have been made that it was fair based on number of seats (although average occupancy kinda kills that argument).
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I feel that that would be a big mistake. The original founders already lost control of the company once in a board coup and are not likely t repeat that mistake.
Inflation Reduction Act is bad for every middle class person who works for a living or finds themselves retired during this period in history. That $7500 is basically worthless. The loss of our net worth to the tune to >25% since 1/20/21 is what matters.
If Aptera gets $7500 off, then all eV auto-cycles would. The Elio would sell for half then. I will write to congress so I can get an Elio for that price.
Love the design of the Aptera but a 2 seater shouldn't get the tax credit. It also helps because had they got the hand out then they would've increased the price like every other car manufacturer.
Actually it makes more sense to give a 2 passenger car the EV Tax Credit since the vehicle can be designed to consume far less energy than a 5 passenger vehicle. Most importantly, most cars on the road (especially at rush hour) have 2 or fewer passenger inside. Don't believe me? Look at the car cars around you the next time you get stuck in traffic.
Don't even need to watch the video. Aptera is going crash and burn, maybe literally, on its own. But then when you add the $7500 tax credit to a Chevy Equinox it will die a swift death like before.
I’ll still buy it even without the credit.
Honestly the range to price is way better than most others. I will too. I just know though if they got the credit, they’d be an instant hit.
What about the grant they received from California for roughly $22 million. Grant--not a loan. How does that make you feel?
I made my reservation without consideration of any potential tax credits, and Aptera has enough of a performance margin for my needs that it won't make a significant change in my decision.
100% agree. As a startup company, Aptera will need as many customers as possible. This $7,500 tax credit will have negative effects if they are not included.
@@cliff101georges Also agree. But there are few if any EVs that qualify at present, so the competitive disadvantage won't come for awhile. There is still time to address some of these issues.
Aptera will be competing with EVs but especially hybrids at this price point. Quite a few lower cost hybrids already qualify. Customers buying cars below $30,000 are more price sensitive. I think Aptera will have to work hard to show middle income households why Aptera is the right choice for a second or third car.
@@apterareboot1555 While you are probably correct, a comparison of the monthly running costs shows that cost of ownership is MUCH lower for Aptera, and for some owners can even pay off the entire cost of the car over the projected ownership life.
Exactly
Many RUclipsrs comments EVs will not be eligible as written as of 2023 anyway due to material source requirements for the battery. The original version of the bill included a $2500 for motorcycles/3wheelers which was at least something. Canadian incentives are lower dollar amounts but many provinces still have helmet/license requirements. I think they will still sell some units despite the disadvantage but it would definitely limit them.
contact your local congressman. they all have election offices now so go there talk to the office manager and their campaign manager and explain this to them that will help tremendously. but please please remember to be respectful when you talk to them
I guess Aptera need to rush their production because no doubt it that autocicle could be really good.. but soon I'll be coming to many electrics cars on 2023 and 2024... I got my reservation already on Aptera.. but things can change...
Good to see a new Aptera Reboot post. Your channel actually introduced me to Aptera, and I think I used your discount link.
Great video. Thanks for all the research. One other thing is that the Aptera will not be such a burden on the electricity grid which everyone is worried about for California. My round trip commute when my company makes me start reporting to the office instead of working from home is only about 24 miles, so I’ll only ever plug it in if I drive somewhere far. I’d like to take it to Vegas for sure. I might only have to plug it in once for that trip with the 40Kwh battery and the full solar package.
For me, the credit is a non-factor. But I am buggers over efficiency and stabilizing the environment. And I think that if after it is not get to use the credit, your arguments are the best marketing technique. And even if the credit didn't exist, is the best marketing technique. The issue would be getting that information out more fully. That means more advertising cost, but it could be well worth it.
It is my understanding that none of the electric vehicles in the just past electric transportation show in San Diego qualify for the $7,500 tax credit due to various restrictions in the bill. Admittedly some cars that were not there do.
Price is still better than all real EV's but the Bolt so there ya go. The lack of a subsidy rankles, sure, but it isnt a market killer. The market killer will be too late into production, where would be owners move their sights to other offerings. Aptera needs to quit tweaking/ optimizing and start producing. At some point really really really soon the design engineers need to stop and the production engineers, line personnel, and marketers need to kick in high gear.
If the credit isn’t point of sale it’s a moot point.
It's not just the three wheel vehicles that are not part of the credit. My understanding is that the batteries have to be fully made in the US. So any vehicle that has any part of its battery made outside of the US cannot use the credit. That balances the playing field a little bit more.
Add one more tire to the back. If the profiles are reduced the two could be placed together like a sandwich. If you also powered each independently you could have more steering. I reserved the all wheel drive model #scottfreeidea
The issue with that is if they could add 1 more tire the car would classify as a car but that would cause more issues/delays. Regulations covering requirements for cars is very different from those covering motorcycle.
Considering they were offering a federal tax credit on electric motorcycles and electric bicycles, I'm sure Aptera will get at least some tax credit. People who make less than 60k a year probably won't owe enough in federal tax to take advantage of the full $7500 credit anyway. Also, the ev credit is getting revamped to include a MSRP cap, only vehicles assembled in the US, and they are considering a smaller tax credit for purchasing a used ev.
People are still buying new Teslas and they don't get a tax credit (although it might come back for them).
Since Aptera is getting its batteries from EVE (China), it probably would not have been eligible. They might have gotten half credit if the packs were assembled here.
They need to say that. Which ones do?
Quite often government legislation fails to make total sense. In this case, excluding electric motorcycles and 3-wheel vehicles is an example.
(0:13) We can thank the politician standing at the far left of the vid intro for this. However, the reality is that many people shopping for an affordable EV due to limited income, will not qualify for all the tax credit, if any at all, since you must owe $7500 in taxes. The choice of qualified EVs that are as affordable as the Aptera will be limited due to the bill's restrictions on manufacturing. Aptera is still very much alive & competitive. I will still buy one.
I agree with your sentiment on this miss. I see the issue is that this is for cars (4 wheels) which aptera deliberately avoided to bypass those required government standards (to avoid weight to meet more stringent safety standards). A better approach would have aptera to band with the other 2 or 3 wheel EV manufacturers ( like Harley Davison) to get an addendum to this or another bill. Just for them - Maybe smaller per unit in terms of support. I can not see, where if they (non-4 wheel EV’s) band together they can not convince a few congresspersons to meet their needs and still hold true to their purpose. My 2cents anyway.
$7,500 or not if Aptera meets my needs it is the vehicle I will buy.
The cybertruck will come with mirrors which Elon has said could easily be removed by owners (if it complies with state laws). Could the Aptera come with a fourth stabiliser wheel which could then be removed by owners after purchase? Or could the back wheel be changed for two narrow wheels taking up the same space as one fat wheel? Another option is to make the Aptera a 4 wheel vehicle to get this EV tax credit. Bollinger has shelved their pick up truck to now make vans. Aptera should pivot and make a 4 wheeler?
Me too. I would like to get the all wheel drive but in the rear if the profiles are reduced you could mount two placed together like a sandwich. If you also powered each independently you could have rear steering. I reserved the all wheel drive model #scottfreeidea They could save money if we could have front or rear power option. #scottfreeidea
that's a great idea, it could just be like a small plastic wheel on a cheap metal strut that could be like stuck on with temporary adhesive and removed after delivery. Just a wheel used to comply with the current regulations to qualify aptera for the credit time being. I don't see why it wouldn't work.
A different way of looking at this is despite the lack of government funding, with a rebate, the operational cost of ownership over the lifetime you will still be ahead without taking a rebate up front. The legislature is willy-nilly picking winners, and its citizens are on the hook, this is not free enterprise. But frankly, the people will still buy the Aptera because it is good enough to overcome the "rebate" which everyone pays for. Comparisions will be hard to ignore in the economic times which we are currently going through. Gasoline prices over $5.00/gallon, will make the Aptera very worth of the upfront cost. Cost benefit analysists of taking this slap in the face from our wonderful leadership, and still going ahead and purchasing the Aptera, would lead you to do it anyway. The icing on the cake would be a rebate, but ultimately, does not really matter. The advancements in efficiency more the offset the lack of rebate. Yes, I would love to have a rebate, but not having a rebate is fine with me, I just want my Aptera!!!!!
I don't don't think so. Different market . I'm surprised you don't see that. It's a three wheeler
It's not considered a car... I will still buy one
in some states it's legally a car which is weird.
If you don't play within the rules of cars don't expect cars rules will apply to you.
People will buy it anyway, no worries at all. If Aptera had the same lobby power (= legalized corruption) as GM or Ford they would have been included too. They are better off without it, gives them more freedom.
All Aptera has to do is add a couple of rods with springs and tiny wheels as outriggers at the rear underside of the vehicle and voila you have a 5-wheeler. Of course they would be easily removable at the owner's discretion once the $7500 discount kicks in.
Even if the could easily add more tires, that would not solve the issue. Aptera would have to abide by regulations covering cars which are far more stringent.
@@apterareboot1555 Good point, but what else besides airbags/seatbelts which I understand Aptera will have?
Aptera fans must writing letters to politicians!
Great video on the absurdity of the anti-inflation law as passed. The reason it passed is because the sourcing language of the law means that few, if any, current EVs actually qualify for the incentive.
This was a poison pill inserted into the legislation by Joe Manchin, who is personally invested in the fossil fuel industry as coal mining is a big deal in WVa.
It is good that it passed even with the obviously absurd restrictions.
Fifty years ago I worked in the office of the #3 in seniority US Senator and one day, his top adviser gave me a secret of success in Washington's morass. He said simply, "You have to know what you want (from government or you'll never get it).
What I is to tie EV rebates to efficiency rather than just use of electricity for propulsion with a specific battery chemistry and four or more wheels.
This kind of change puts the incentive in the 'right place': efficiency.
For grins, let me suggest that the law be amended to allow battery sourcing as proposed as we do need production to begin shifting from China proper to more domestic production. - But lets add another layer to the incentive: something based on MPGe efficiency.
To wit: No EV or hybrid PASSENGER vehicle with a MPGe lower than 90 qualifies. Those vehicles with MPGe >90 but 150 but less than 200 MPGe would get a $5500 rebate and those >201 MPGe or greater would get a $10,000.
All these rebates are also restricted to passenger vehicles capable of carrying at least one driver and passenger that have passed with a 4-Star or higher safety rating as established by NHTSA testing for the full rebate. Those vehicles with a 3-star safety rating or less than 90 MPGe (but more than 60MPGe) qualify for a max $1,000 rebate hence providing incentives for all but the most grossly inefficient vehicles.
I mean, what is not to like about a scheme of this sort. It puts a real incentive on efficiency while also emphasizing safety.
What Aptera and their ambassadors don't quite grasp is that lobbying far and wide for this approach first off has a chance to succeed if the public gets it but more importantly making the effort is great way to enter the public square with a positive message about safety and efficiency.
I mean yell it from the roof-tops.
Cool idea but I’m not sure the American market is valuable enough to manufacturers for them to design a vehicle around winning this incentive. Also, I don’t know these things work, especially in the states, but can’t the grant be amended at any time changing amount or qualifications? Struck down whenever?
I really like the Aptera, but I don't think it's well-known enough to have any significant lobbying effort put behind it. However, it IS very striking, and once more and more early adopters put them on the roads(and the vehicle works well) I'm sure it'll turn up the buzz about them and THEN will there be enough support to insert them into the tax credit.
I'm sure the early adopters might be a little grumpy for not getting the credit, but they'll definitely help brand awareness.
@@TheHuxely The last time I looked, this is a policy decision between two paths to electrification of transportation.
One is better for everyone's pocketbook and the environment. It distributes jobs to most markets that produce light efficient transportation, so much so solar generation can provide 90 percent of the vehicle's energy needs.
The other lets a moribund industry that seeks to exploit a wasteful endeavor: building five ton vehicles that require a 200 kw battery and tax the grid requiring the proliferation of direct current chargers capable of providing 350 kw charging rates for each of four charging stations at a cost upwards of a quarter million dollars per unit.
If you figure the overall costs of building the high power charging stations to 'fuel' grossly larger vehicles than 'anyone needs' we'll waste billions.
@@g.pattonhughes5991I am still not informed enough to have an idea of what a well fettled incentive program looks like or indeed whether incentives are ever a great and fair use of money when considered retrospectively. Do you have any examples?
It’s not obvious to me what the best moves are to minimize waste and accelerate the transition simultaneously. Actually, we could push one at the expense of the other but who knows how to find the right balance there.
Anyway it’s a complex problem.
I keep reading (in other videos, not just this one) of why Aptera SHOULD be included in the $7500 tax program, but nobody ever explains exactly why it is NOT. Is it because, as a 3-wheeled vehicle, it is considered a "motorcycle" and not a car? ... If that is true it continues to puzzle me because the regs (at least as I have seen them presented) base the credit on it being a "vehicle", not necessarily a "car".
So, if it must be a "4-wheel car", then why not build a tiny little wheel barely touching the ground (perhaps behind the main rear wheel, so as not to spoil the aerodynamics), just to make it officially a 4-wheeled vehicle.
Of course the writing on the wall would be clear. The regulatory agencies would then squawk that as a 4-wheeler, it must meet the more stringent "4-wheel car" safety regs.
Sigh! 😵
Most EV's don't qualify because of the where the battery materials come from at this time. The bill is designed to encourage materials to be supplied by friendly countries.
The comparisons supplied here do were not a consideration in this bill.
If a bill can be passed that will benefit Aptera based on the the facts discussed here we will be better off.
How many friendly countries can supply batteries in quantities at a reasonable price?
This won't be a popular Comment, but that's no reason not to make it. 😁 I think that many EV devotees are wealthy enough not to give two hoots (🦉🦉) about the price of their next vehicle. There. I've said it.
I bet that an Aptera won't be the sole purchase for many EV owners; they'll have several other vehicles of various sizes and capabilities - an EV pickup truck, an SUV, a little city runabout EV, an e-bike, an e-scooter...
In other words, it'll be more of a novelty toy and fashion statement than an urgently needed 'personal transport solution'.
Part of the attraction of an EV (any EV) in the west is its desirability as a status symbol. Much like buying an obscenely expensive mobile phone from a company with a fruit-based name, ownership confers a degree of specialness which reflects well on a person's position in society.
Poor-shaming is real. Ask any kid what it feels like to have a £19.99 mobile phone from Argos when their classmates have been given the latest £1,000 i-Phones.
You may not remember the Sinclair C5; it was a primitive recumbent-trike EV in the 1980s intended to replace the bicycle. It wasn't a success - the mechanical, electrical and electronic technology of the time wasn't up to the job - but a big part of the C5's failure was its lowly status.
It aimed low.
It wasn't big and brash and luxurious, like a modern EV. It didn't have room to carry two sets of golf clubs. It was tiny, humble, inefficient and (I'll be honest) pretty crude compared to even the most basic, battered, second-hand ICE vehicle at the time.
Braying motoring journalists and sneering petrolheads queued up to mock it and its creator for daring to try to solve a personal transport problem by thinking small and simple.
Made with modern motors, batteries, and an enclosed cabin, a C5 could be a winner.
It might be argued that Arcimoto's relatively simple FUV and (to a lesser extent) the luxurious Aptera are the C5's natural successors, but they're very different beasts. They're built up to an aspiration, and not down to a need.
They've got 'niche market' and 'chic' and 'boutique product' written all over them. And they're deliciously expensive. Mmmmm...
Tax credit? Huh. So what if the Aptera works out to cost a few grand more. I don't think many people care. Fans and investors CERTAINLY won't care.
EVs would be far less popular if they were available as cheap runabouts for peasants, as they are in places like China. There you can get a roadgoing electric vehicle for less than the price of an i-Phone.
Imagine that.
It won't be posh or plush or 'smart' or safe, but it'll get you around town on a minuscule budget. It'll carry your groceries and keep the wind and rain off you, and you won't need to pedal it.
What more do you need? Nothing. What more do you WANT? Everything. Size. Strength. Airbags. Gadgets. Gizmos. Luxuries. Performance. Road presence. Status.
The Aptera's huge on the outside but rather small on the inside. It seats two. Two? It could have been made a lot smaller and slimmer and more efficient with tandem (inline) seating like Arcimoto's FUV, but that's bad for its image. It reeks of 'bicycle', and bikes have got too many negative associations.
Saving money with a tax credit isn't cool, either. It kinda sends out a 'desperate and impoverished pleb' vibe. If you need to claw back a measly $7,500, maybe you're lower class scum. Free school meals, Food banks. Free clothing vouchers. Soup kitchens. Sleeping in a ditch...
Likewise, your tiny cheapo Chinese EV won't be cool. It won't impress the neighbours. It won't scream, "Look at me! Look what I've got!"
A great big shiny Aptera will, and people are willing to pay whatever it costs to get that.
A product that's reassuringly expensive will always sell. Members of the church of Tesla worship at the altar of their messiah's extreme wealth and cling to the idea that, one day, if their faith is strong, they'll be incredibly rich, too. Hooray. Buy stock now.
Buy a Tesla, the credo goes, and Ego Muskrat himself will, metaphorically, fly you to Mars, Heaven's Gate style.
Never mind saving this planet by consuming less - keep your eyes on the stars and keep dreaming. Oh, and keep making all those not-so-easy monthly payments. You can afford them, right? I mean, it's not as if you're... poor? (Ewwww!)
EV snobbery is alive and well and plugging in to a supercharger near you.
The Aptera doesn't need a tax credit price reduction; potential buyers won't care what it costs. It's a cool gadget and they want one. Want, want, want, now, now, now. Saving money isn't important. Not REALLY. Saving the planet isn't important.
Saving face when parked next to a Muskrat-mobile is what matters. Bragging about drag coefficients and 'free' solar power matters. Rapid acceleration matters.
Saving money has got nothing to do with it.
The democrats just shot Aptera in the face with a shotgun, and went out of their way to do it when they intentionally removed the clause that originally provided a credit for 3-wheelers. I see a lot of people here trying to minimize the damage this bill has done to Aptera, primarily by arguing that the bill is mostly useless due to the battery material sourcing restrictions that will kick in beginning in 2023. High praise, indeed! They wrote a cynical bill that is mostly useless beginning in 2023, but provides a talking point for the election that will impress the average Joe who isn't privy to the details. To the extent that any cars qualify, they are rewarding the biggest energy pigs on the road while punishing Aptera, who should be the poster child for the whole EV movement. Aptera should have been invited to the White House, preferably with its third wheel parked on top of Mary Barra, the leader in EV sales don't ya know. Others have argued that the lack of a credit won't change their mind or that a credit never figured into their decision to order an Aptera. I am in that category, but what a handful of extreme Aptera supporters think is irrelevant compared to the aggregate market. Once again, Uncle Sam has dealt a mighty blow to Aptera. I am of the opinion they will survive, but won't thrive like they should have until the playing field is leveled. Many in the green movement worship at the altar of government largess, when they should be worshiping at the altar of the innovation and risk taking embodied by the co-CEOs of Aptera, and let the market decide who is providing the best value proposition. Sadly, our government has picked the winners and losers, and Aptera is a huge loser.
Aptera offers solar and efficiency like none other those other cars basically don't pay you to drive them and they are all pricey. Aptera pays for life , not just one year on a over priced vehicle upsale anyway . Aptera has better price points always.
I don't think any EV's qualify for the $7,500 tax credit. Batteries must be made in the USA.
Why Aptera will not get the tex credit because the three wheel design 😒 which is stupid, but that's why !
They also edited the bill in the senate and removed the $2500 for motorcycles and 3 wheelers (also spiritus, solo, archimoto etc). If it passed in this form it was still a disadvantage but wouldn't have been as bad. An argument could even have been made that it was fair based on number of seats (although average occupancy kinda kills that argument).
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I feel that that would be a big mistake. The original founders already lost control of the company once in a board coup and are not likely t repeat that mistake.
Inflation Reduction Act is bad for every middle class person who works for a living or finds themselves retired during this period in history.
That $7500 is basically worthless. The loss of our net worth to the tune to >25% since 1/20/21 is what matters.
If Aptera gets $7500 off, then all eV auto-cycles would. The Elio would sell for half then. I will write to congress so I can get an Elio for that price.
Love the design of the Aptera but a 2 seater shouldn't get the tax credit. It also helps because had they got the hand out then they would've increased the price like every other car manufacturer.
Actually it makes more sense to give a 2 passenger car the EV Tax Credit since the vehicle can be designed to consume far less energy than a 5 passenger vehicle. Most importantly, most cars on the road (especially at rush hour) have 2 or fewer passenger inside. Don't believe me? Look at the car cars around you the next time you get stuck in traffic.
Your argument makes zero sense. Most big fat trucks and SUV are cruising around with 1 person inside.
Don't even need to watch the video. Aptera is going crash and burn, maybe literally, on its own. But then when you add the $7500 tax credit to a Chevy Equinox it will die a swift death like before.