AMD noted it was "switching gears" (just in the keynote) from consumer/desktop discussion as it moved into medical discussion, so it completed the consumer component topics without mentioning price on the X3D CPUs. No change to the topic in the above video. Watch the NVIDIA RTX 4070 Ti review: ruclips.net/video/N-FMPbm5CNM/видео.html Get the LIMITED 2022 Disappointment Shirt in Cotton: store.gamersnexus.net/products/disappointment-pc-t-shirt-2022-100-cotton-black Or in a lightweight Tri-Blend! store.gamersnexus.net/products/disappointment-pc-t-shirt-2022-triblend-black
I found it really odd how little time they spent in the presentation on their VCache chips. They basically glossed over the 7900X3D lol. They also just mentioned more affordable AM5 motherboards launching and 65W variants in like 1 sentence. I thought they would've spent a little more time talking about that given how the lower end has been kind of a pain point for competing with Intel.
Yeah, seems like they wanted all the airtime for the executive talking section. CES is like that sometimes. Hope they realize what a boost it would be to have cheaper boards -- definitely worth more than 1 sentence.
honestly sounds like amd losing faith in consumer market because consumers aren't buying up tech as much with inflation and all. they gotta please investors in some way :p
if they had a great product they would have stayed focused on it. something is up. the way AMD has over rated / over hyped there recent products, i dunno.
When you eventually review these... can we please get a video dedicated to all the newest Ryzen CPUs benchmarks/testing that also includes their ECO mode benchmarks? Incredibly useful for people looking to high end power efficient chips with low profile coolers in SFF cases.
A guide/review on AM5 mobos and ddr5 ram along side would also be amazing. Got very used to evaluating the quality of ddr4 modules, but really haven’t wanted to do the forum deep dives to relearn everything with ddr5. Also doesn’t seem to be a lot of guidance on am5 mobos out there right now.
It will be very interesting to see the performance uplift of these new 3D cache CPUs. They are almost getting to the point where you can essentially install small games directly to the CPU memory, which is a bit insane.
@@vinylSummer It seems pointless to generalize when it comes to this technology. The average might work out to 15%, but if you heavily play something like World of Warcraft then that's massively underselling it. The gain from the 5800X to the 5800X3D in that game was in the region of 50%, yet you're not going to see anything like that in many other games. As always, you should buy the best product for you personally, based on what YOU play.
the GN team have been pretty much killing it every time something released last couple years, however they do go over everything even when stuff is released in quick succession like how it is these days so that's mention worthy I guess
@@balazsdusek Totally agree. Probably should have added something along the lines of "even more so than in the past". Something about the recent stuff just seems too be of a higher caliber.
L3 does wonders for MMO games like World of Warcraft or any MMO really. I went from a 5600x to a 5800x3d and saw a boost of around 30fps in very populated areas at 3840x1600p(3090) in WoW. Logged onto WoW before i upgraded my cpu as was sitting at around 65fps in WoW classic Dalaran and when i logged back in after putting in the 5800x3d I was at 100fps with small dips to around 95fps. In all my time of playing MMOs I've never been able to have smooth fps when you get a boat load of people around. I also tried Guild Wars 2 the other day and had zero frame rate issues with a crap ton of people on the screen. The big level 3 does wonders, and i would think Intel would follow suit.
This is great information. I only play MMORPG and to hear your upgrade improved drastically is encouraging! I can't wait for 7900X3D I've got everything else except that.
Intel has been increasing their cache a lot too, just no "3D cache" like AMD. They went from 16MB to 30MB between 11th gen and 13th gen for the i7s. They've been stuck on 8MB or 12MB for a while, but it's finally changing.
There is only one V-cache die for all X3D models. So because the 7800X3D only has one CCD, it is clock limited like the 5800X3D. The 7900X3D and 7950X3D have an additional CCD with no V-cache stacked on it, so those cores can still boost up to their max boost.
So one CCD can boost to full rated Ghz and has no vcache, and the other is boost limited but has vcache? If that's true, their slides are a bit misleading. It does make sense though. Lots of people won't be happy about that solution, if it turns out to be true.
@@jasonhurdlow6607 It's L3 cache so the cores can reach across CCDs to get to it. So the fast cores still have access to the whole pool. EDIT: For Zen 3 it was a 4x penalty to latency reaching across CCDs.
@@ShredBird But the cost of cross-die communication in Ryzen is high since the data must be moved to the io-die, then to the other die. That's why some game performs better on 5800x/7800x than 5950x/7950x.
@@yukin6430 Yes, that's true, but the 7900X and 7950X are both already doing that and going to RAM is an eternity compared to going over Infinity Fabric to neighboring cache. Larger L3 pool, less trips to RAM. Not sure where the trade-off is in terms of latency.
I bought a 5800x for 230 bucks when the 7000 series just came out. Just bought a good enough b550 board. Even though the platform is dead i am happy with price to performance.
I ended up getting an x570 board from ASUS, and dropped a 5900x in it, I've been quite happy with that. Not touching any new-generation stuff until it matures a bit more.
So reading between the lines a bit: looks like they explicitly have a 3D cache *chiplet* in particular. Looking at specs, the 7900X3D and 7950X3D appear as though they have one 3D cache chiplet and one normal cache chiplet. That would explain the weird boost clock listings (7800X3D has the lower clocks you'd expect, 79_0X3D are "up to" the same boost) and why the cache size jump from the 7800X3D is smaller than you might think. I'm...not sure how this'll work out in practice. In theory it sounds not that dissimilar to Intel's P-core + E-core and sounds awesome for supporting both workloads that need faster cores and workloads that benefit from more cache. In reality I doubt schedulers will use the normal vs 3D-cache cores efficiently - Windows already has enough problems scheduling between two chiplets.
If AMD's claims about Infinity Fabric are accurate they might be perfectly happy to have tasks scheduled to the higher performance CCD and just pull data across Infinity Fabric from the other CCD's cache.
The 5800X3D launched at the same MSRP as the 5800X, albeit almost 2 years later. It will be interesting how AMD will price-structure the new 3D cache chips now they are launching so close to their regular version.
@@haukikannel at this point thats just market determined though, amd does not necessarily have to follow that trend if they want to really promote those chips.
Definitely will be upmarked a fair bit, or they will just canibalize on their non-X3D chips. Probably each chip will cost between 1-2 tiers above its non-X3D counterpart.
7800X3D $550 7900X3D $750 7950X3D $900 But the fact they didn't mention prices makes me think that they could go the $1000 way for the 7950X3D and scale the rest from there.
@@haukikannel Price isn't just determined by the different in production cost though. 5800X3D was the fastest gaming CPU on a relatively cheaper platform that was outselling Intel at the time. The 7800X3D won't be the fastest gaming CPU (although still faster than the competition), but it's also on a platform that's being outsold by Intel. I honestly don't see how they can ask more for that chip than for a 7900. Is the implementing the V-cache die really more expensive than adding another chiplet?
Noticed that the total cache of X3D parts suggests that only one of the dies in the 7900X3D and 7950X3D has stacked cache. By inference of the 7800X3D's max boost frequency, the Vcache die in the 7900 and 7950X3D will likely be similarly restricted in frequency (~5GHz) despite the much higher boost frequency stated which is likely the boost frequency of the standard non Vcache die in those CPUs.
Well if thats a Thing thats… bad. That would mean they cant make the IHS really thinner and that would mean still relatively bad Thermals. I would assume on the Location of the Chip with the V Cache it will still be smaller but overall the Heat Issue because of the Thicker IHS will persist. If thats the Case… really… i think this is an (huge) oversight for no Reason… really. Those CPUs could run 10 Degrees less hot i think i remember from Tests ppl did. Der8auer i think was testing this. Really not a Fan of that Info now.
Likely the increased cache is only present on one CCD for the 7950x and 7900x. Therefore, the other CCD can still boost higher. That is not possible for the 7800x3d with only one CCD
Upgraded from a ryzen 5 3600 to the 5800x3d during black friday. Best upgrade ever. Have no reason to move to the new am5. Nice to see a real option for gamers to migrate to the new generation soon. Don't want to see how much they cost though...
L3 cache is AMAZING for unity based games. One of the community members for vrchat published a blog stating the 5800x3d has something like a 50% uplift over the 13900k, this is great news
AMD didn't clarify this, but the 12 core and 16 core X3D only have a single chiplet 3D stacked, that is why the L2+L3 cache numbers are like that (32 MB per chiplet + 64MB stacked in only one CCD + 1 MB per core). This could lead to some issues if a game process isn't kept inside the 3D stacked chiplet, it's a bit of a big.little situation.
Was this confirmed, or could they have designed a different cheaper 32mb cache to use across the dual die chips, which might explain their higher clocks to make up for the smaller per core cache, as well?
@@TheAzzzzzzzza That could be, but then they would have to use another 64MB cache die for the 7800X3D, as this one has 64MB of additional cache. And in terms of thermal resistance (transistor count is another thing), it does not make a difference if you put a 32MB or a 64MB chiplet on a CCD. So my guess based on cache numbers and the reduced clock speed of the 7800X3D would also be that only one CCD gets a 64MB chiplet.
If that is true it is 100% just stupid. But it might explain the boost clocks. The CCD with no cache can boost higher. But 7800x3d only got the one with cache. So it is going to boost lower. Like sure... But this basically means 7800x3d is the only 3xd that matters. Since scheduling and BS is a problem. And if your doing Gaming and Productive tasks. I mean sure... But like... This seems more like a BETA test for small and big cores future down the line.
It's a massive glaring design choice AMD glossed over, that the dual chiplet models are now effectively hybrid architecture CPUs and the performance depends a lot on how the windows 11 scheduler handles it
A few months back I upgraded from a 3700x to a 5800x3d and just love it. I'm not in the market for another CPU yet, but am happy to know they are continuing the 3d CPUs, as I'll definitely want another one in the future.
I was gonna go from a 3600 to a 5800x3d myself but I couldn't find any for less than $400. For that price I just got a used motherboard on eBay and switched to the 13600k lol
I got the 7600x and I couldn’t be happier it’s what I needed at a great price for 230. That being said I want amd to keep pushing forward and releasing better and better cpus because once’s they finish releasing there last cpu for this gen I’ll be buying it for a nice upgrade! Till then I’m all set
@@Victor-bu8ce I went with the d15 with a single fan since two will block the ram and stick up to much keeping my case door from shutting the max temps I’ve seen have been under 60. It’s a huge upgrade from my 4790k no bottlenecks or anything
Very nice to see the AMD CPU range rounded out - lots of good choices. We just need to start hearing about reasonably priced platforms to use them in! Hope that when the X3D CPUs are actually tested we're pleasantly surprised with the thermals - so that in the future we could see them as a normal part of the lineup!
@@Slimmeyy Except these CPUs have a cache slapped on top, which really heats up the CPU. Temp difference between a 5800x and a 5800x3D is insane. The latter STILL throttles even with an AIO.
@@Slimmeyy I own a 5800x3D. All you gotta do is google search for "5800x3D temps" to see for yourself. Even reviewers pointed out the 5800x3D reaches throttle temps (90c) during rendering benchmarks. The cache while incredibly useful, interferes with the chip's cooling.
@@ThallesNinja just looked at Linus' review, and they're not complaining either. Not throttling at a full-blast stress test WITH AN AIR COOLER, and extremely close to the regular 5800X.
I might upgrade too. My 8700k is starting to show its age, especially as it’s paired with a 3080. We’ll see though. I also might try to get a 4090 when the 5000 series rolls around. I might not get new gpus anymore. Prices are just ridiculous. I remember when a gtx980 was $500
@@berengerchristy6256 yeah 8700k is a great grandma compared to these new CPUs. Excited to see what the 7800x3d and 7900x3d bring to the table. Honestly the 7700x with 32GB of ddr5 6000 free at microcenter is by far the best gaming CPU deal right now.
@@berengerchristy6256 absolutely. I've lived near them in 2 states but still have family close to one that can get stuff for me should I need it. That 7700x deal is incredibly tempting even with the x3d's coming out. $344 with FREE 32GB 6000 and $20 off a MB. Insane.
It is easy… Look 5800x price. Compare it to 5800x3d price. We can see that 3d cache cost about $150 to $200. So take 7800x and ad $200 to that price and you have 7800x3d price in there! Ofcourse the price delta can be higher than $200, but 5800x vs 5800x3d gives us good estimation!
@@haukikannel 7800X3D should be $399 since 7700X is $330 now, AMD are playing with fire if they price it higher than $399 with current motherboard prices bring high. $420 will be the max I can tolerate at the most!
I'm on an old 4790k & 970. Long overdue and upgrade. The 7950X3D could be the one for me late this year if prices are reasonable. On paper it sounds like a beast, look forward to the GN reviews!
It will be an insane upgrade, you will be glad that you waited this long for such a huge upgrade rather than buying new components every 2 years for little gain.
I have a 7700x i built a few weeks ago with 360 mm AIO cooler. My temps are about 10 degrees c below the 95 c tj maxx under all core work loads. The box puts it at 5.4 ghz, but I've seen mine boost to 5.9 ghz with no over clock configured. You'll get amazing performance with good thermal paste and a better than average cooler.
@@Kizzster it's just the 7900X/7950x that already have 2 CCD's that will have the L3 cache die stacked on a single CCD while the second CCD will do all the boost work
The naming on the laptop GPUs is rather nice to be honest. When buying a laptop with NVIDIA GPU, the information on what power target is for that exact model is hard to find, and it can lead to serious performance gains/losses. While S/M is a little confusing it's a step in a tight direction
Ngl, 7900x3dx is probably going to be my next build unless it's shown to be not too much better than the 7800. Built a 3770k build with a 660 in 2013, upgraded to a 980, then a 1070 8gb. Been using consoles to offset GPU upgrades since then for some graphical features, but it has played most games that I have wanted to play at more than reasonable frame rates with a g-sync monitor. Even if I keep the 1070 till a GPU that doesn't suck comes out, I feel like it's time to upgrade. If the am5 platform will allow CPU upgrades until 2025, this feels like the time to build a system that might potentially last as long as what I have right now because it seems like when this system that I currently have right now was built at the best time to ensure the most longevity and the perfect storm is happening again. If anyone with a different opinion that is helpful can make a sound rebuttal I'd love to hear it
Yeah I'm on a Ryzen 2600x and a 1660 GTX TI. I'd like to move to DDR5 and faster PCI E. I think this is when I finally upgrade. The 7900x3d sounds really really good. We'll have to wait and see!
i feel ya, im on a 4770k thats gone through an HD 6950, 750ti, R9 Fury, and finally a GTX1080. im waiting for the perfect combination of value and longevity to spring for (most likely) am5
@@butterfingersman Yeah the GPU prices are ridiculous right now. I can't justify spending $1000+ on just a damn GPU, that's crazy. I'm predicting that prices will never be the same for GPU's ever again because people are still willing to pay the high prices and companies don't lower their prices to ''help people and be moral''.
@@wombat5252 the prices have been ridiculous, but at least the 6600xt and 6700xt have had a lot of good sales recently and basically put it at the only good price to performance cards for the last couple of generations. it's not exactly the upgrade for me (im happy with my 1080 at 1080p) but they are great value when on sale. honestly though, amd, nvidia, and intel need to start fighting at the $200-400 mark when you consider how many buget gpu buyers have been left behind. it's a real shame that the market segment that made the rx480 such an exciting launch seems to be such an afterthought today. that being said, i was mostly talking about cpus, and when am5 gets some decently affordable motherboards and ram, i can finally move up from this ancient 4770k, which will be super nice, my 4.4ghz 4770k is not cutting it in new titles at 1080p.
I'd love to see FFXIV among the benchmark games for these CPUs and would've loved to see it for the 5800X3D as well. There's a massively popular game still, and one that's often CPU bound as MMOs tend to be. I'd love to see a walking around Limsa or hunt train benchmark lol.
Hey Steve. I just want to tell you I appreciate the prep time you put into your vids. It's refreshing to see someone figure out what they want to say beforehand rather than have every sentence be a new take and end up looking like max headroom.
As someone that is most interested in complex combat flight and space sims. It'll be interesting to see how well of an increase these new X3D chips will perform.
Might get one of these for planetside 2. 5800X3D gave way better performance than the non 3D v cache cpus according to most/all players that got one. It's not really the type of game that can be consistently benchmarked, though.
I'd be super interested in seeing the VR performance benchmarks for these chips when they launch. Especially on Unity titles like VRChat, which absolutely guzzle down L3 cache
Has anyone ever done any VRChat benchmarks? how would you even... I doubt it's a general unity thing. More VR benchmarks are certainly needed, VR enthusiasts are probably among the most hardware hungry and yet almost nobody provides the benchmarking.
@@BBWahoo how much market share do high end gaming CPUs and GPUs have? That is also a tiny part of the market. Many of the people interested in VR are also interested in those simply because they could always use the performance boost a 4090 or a 7950X3D affords them.
@@sluxi Then VR is a fraction of a fraction of that tiny market, which is why no one bothers to show any benchmarks. Let's hope there's a change in the near future
I wonder if with the stack height of the new X3D chips would make the IHS thinner than the massive piece they use now making cooling a little more effective.
Don't think so, as it seems only one CCD gets a cache chiplet. So it's likely that AMD will sand down one CCD to avoid having different IHS. And I don't think steps in an IHS would be good during soldering process.
@@johnscaramis2515 Doesnt make much sense to me. I am quiet certain what chrono said is true. That was their whole Plan all along. Otherwise they really… fucked up with the thicker IHS because it doesnt make ANY Sense to use but dissipate Heat less efficient. But we will see.
@@johnscaramis2515 I think i now know what you mean… If thats true i think this is stupid from AMD. They could run those CPUs 10 Degrees cooler (which they also need to…) for those CPUs if they would just use a thinner IHS. Really not a Fan of this Info if true. Seems like a huge Oversight to me.
I just in the last 2 weeks, purchased a 7950X, MB, Memory. I was pleasantly surprised to see that the chip is boosting to 5.881GHz on water with no overclocking, just PBO turned on across all CPU's. Going from a Threadripper 2950X that maxed out at 4.2 on "most" chips, this is a huge performance improvement for me.
Can we please see benchmarks for flight simulator 2020? MSFS is known to have a huge improvement with X3D chips. Going from 5800x to x3d in my case I saw about 20FPS gain overall and zero stutters, a huge issue with MSFS.
4:41 the reason the 12 and 16 core didnt get their boost frequencies cut is because they only have one chiplet with cache on it. This allows the non cache-enhanced chiplet to reach full boost frequencies for programs that need that higher clock speed. I'll be interested to see how Windows handles the scheduling and thread direction for this, it would be really cool to see the threads that need that extra cache sit on those lower frequency cores, but the threads that cant use the cache because they're either small enough to fit in normal cache, or too large to fit in 3D cache, should see a significant benefit from the 500-700Mhz bump in clock speeds over the 3D chiplet Oh and technically these could both be 3D stacked chiplets, but that would require the V-cache dies to be ~1/2 the capacity as the 7800X3D
how the hell is the scheduler going to work it all out when it cant even schedule a 7900x two similar, ccds properly cause if it did the 7900x should always beat the 7700x as in addition to more cores it has higher clock boost but it nearly always loses.
But the lower IPC, lower clockspeed made it kinda meh vs high end Alder Lake, specially with the productivity regression vs a standard 5800X. Zen 4 3D is the way to go.
@@saricubra2867 IPC is not a fixed metric,the 5800x3D literally does more instructions per clock then even Raptor lake in Sims like DCS,Star Citizen,just not in most mainstream AAA games.
@@Kevin-fl7mj 5800X3D doesn't compete with Raptor Lake, it competes with my i7-12700K (12 core chip) for the same price. If the 5800X3D is truly a higher IPC chip than Raptor Lake (which is the same as Alder Lake), it should destroy Xenia and RPCS3 emulators, but it doesn't. My i7-12700K in particular (has AVX512 too) can outperform even an i9-13900K. Zen 4 are emulation beasts too with the far superior single core perfomance vs a 5800X3D.
@@saricubra2867 That is not how it works buddy,look up benchmarks for the games i listed and you will see that even the 13700k gets outperformed meaning in that specific workload it has superior IPC.
The reason the 7950x3D, and 7900x3D didn't have their frequency cut, is likely because they only use 1 memory v-cache die, and not 2. Only the lower clocked part will likely get the cache die, while the higher 5.7GHz die/CCD will not get extra stacked cache. 144 MB means only 1 die has cache. If it was both, it be 208MB.
One CCX is cache optimized. One CCX is clock speed optimized. So a heterogeneous design, with MS coming to say they will assist in scheduling. Got a feeling all of these scheduling optimizations will be Windows 11 exclusive.
I'm excited about 7X3D but my big concern is thermals. I don’t really want to delid one of these to get acceptable temps so I will wait and see. Still happy with my 58X3D.
It's very possible why 7800x has a lower clock because they are lower binned parts from the 7950 and 7900 skus. That would probably explain alot especially if they are made from 2 chiplets from 2 other chips I'm guessing.
I missed it too during the event, and i spent an hour trying to figure out how the got the same boost frequency as nonX while having a 120w TDP, at first i thought they were using those 4nm 45HX mobile chiplets, and then it hit me ***Look at the cache size*** The 7900X and 7950X only have ***one chiplet with 3D cache*** thats why their boost is so high, the other ***chiplet without 3D cache can boost like normal*** you get the best of both worlds. If they both had 3D cache they'd have a total of 204-208MB not 140-144MB) The 7800X3D has 3x the L3 cache as the 7700X3D(an extra 64MB) The 7900X3D has 2x the L3 cache of the 7900X(an extra 64MB) My hope is that they offer a 7955X3D with 2 3D Cache chiplets for the people who need that cache for home-lab or production workloads, or they want the stability of having a unified core archetecture. Much like Intel E cores there will be some teething problems with Windows and Linux choosing the correct chiplet. Does your program benefit from 3D cache, or does it not care about the cache and want frequency? Its a 50-50 chance that its going on the wrong chiplet without some advanced thread scheduling
@@denvera1g1 that's some good insight, I'm not the most learned on this but your details fit in line with the concept. It's a good way to maximize product and so far zen chips have not disappointed so far. 3900x works great with games and is handy when I 3d print things. But I'm probably undersigned it. still though I think it will last another 3 to 5 years before its age starts to become a factor.
I think I saw a pic from the presentation that showed 7950x3d with the vcache only on top of one of the ccxs. I bet it means only one ccx boosts to the advertised speed and the other only boost to 5 Ghz like the 7800x3d; similar to how some of their dual ccx chips have one good ccx and one bad one that doesn't boost as high.
- The 7900X & 7950X have some de-clock on the X3D versions too. But really with these chips it'll come down to thermals, and be more about how much time can be spent in boost. - the 5800X vs. 5800X3D went from 32mb L3 to 96mb L3 (or 3x the cache size) - the 7900x vs. 7900X3D went from 64 to 140mb L3 (or 2.1x the cache size) So it may not scale as much as the previous X3D did. Also, DDR5 with almost double the throughput, and faster infinity fabric, alleviates a bit of the ask for cache. But clock is higher... all depends on how cache hungry the cpu is. But I would expect less uplift (though certainly still some uplift).
@@j78823 Yep, I thought of that after posting and came back to edit/add that, hehe :) Although, it's got higher CL latency... which asks for a bit more cache. HIgher clock and more cores (IF utilized by the software) will tend to ask for more cache too. I think X3D's will be very good, just not quite as dominant as the 5800X3D was for the 5000 series. Personally I got a 7900X cuz I traditionally look for clock > cores > cache (which may be overly simplistic, admittedly). But I managed to cram a 420 rad into a lancool III case (not easy), and a very gentle PBO undervolt, to let the cpu go wild with less of a thermal throttle leash on it.
Something that was noteworthy with the 5800X3D was, that it performed better relative to how poor the ram specs were, as the vcache could compensate for the lack of speed and capacity of the ram. For example if you compared the 5800X3D to a 12700K on 3000 DDR4, then the X3D would see a proportionally large uplift, but if you ran the 12700K with DDR5 or even high-end DDR4 (4k mhz+) then the difference completely vanished (and the X3D didn't really benefit much from faster memory so it didn't matter if it ran DDR4 or DDR5. It will be interesting to see how much the ram will impact the performance difference this time around.
I think RDNA3 mobile GPU actually showed us potentially what 7600XT looks like in terms of spec. It is going to be exactly like RDNA2 in terms of configuration, the same 32CU (I assume that is CU, not flops, unless it just happen 1CU correspond to 1TFlops) and the same bus width. The die size is a bit smaller (14% smaller) probably owing to the use of 6nm. Looking at the graph, since 6600M only has 28CU, then 6600XT vs 7600XT probably will have smaller performance gap unless it has bigger frequency difference compared to the mobile part, which is probably enough to make 7600XT perform as well as 6700XT. Since they are only using 6nm it should be cheaper per transistor to make vs the bigger RDNA3 chip, thus hopefully AMD can price that at $299 (preferably lower) and budget gamers can now have a GPU that perform great for that price point with good RT performance and also AV1 encoder. I just hope since it probably would perform like 6700XT in raster, they don't price it like 6700XT and really hope they don't use the mining boom pricing as the guideline. Like I said, $299 or lower please. Edit: I'm also expecting Nvidia won't have an answer to this, especially if AMD priced this hypothetical 7600XT at $299, not when they keep touting 3060 MSRP at $329. If right now lots of budget gamer buying 6600XT, this 7600XT will be an even more slam dunk choice for them.
More dedicated accelerators is going to be the norm soon. AMD packaging it all in one die is the smart move to make. I'm glad that someone in the industry realizes the advantages of having a large APU + hbm integrated into a single node server. Also, their FPGA products are very interesting. Almost forgot, AMD proved me wrong when they released more than one X3D product, was quite surprised by that announcement.
Well they sort of released 3 X3D models... one, slower V-cache chiplet per package isn't exactly what we were hoping for. Dual CCD models are basically very expensive gaming chips that will likely perform worse than non-3D chips at full frequency in many all-core tasks running. Also keep in mind, the existence of the 7900X3D basically guarantees an inevitable 7600X3D.
@@JJFX- what were the 3 x3d products? I know of the Milan X and 5800X3D, what was the third? Edited; nvm you're pointing out the 3, 7000 series x3d products. No, I don't see 7600X3D happening imo. The 7800x3d seems like the only single CCD product to get the V-cache treatment, which makes sense.
@@carl8790 Ah I see what you originally meant now. I say 7600X3D because the 7900X3D is now using 6 core v-cache chiplets. I have a very hard time believing that isn't going to trickle down into a single CCD variant, possibly at a lower boost clock but I doubt they couldn't all achieve the same 5GHz. Imagine how popular a cheaper 7600X3D would be as board and DDR5 prices stabilize. That would be a great way to jumpstart the slow AM5 adoption before Zen 5 comes out.
@@JJFX- I should be careful of saying 'only' because this is AMD after all, you never know what they're going to do. For my reasoning on why a 7600X3D wouldn't happen, because they would've announced it already on the CES stream. However, I wouldn't be surprise in the future to see a 8600? X3D variant. It's a lot of variants of the same die, competing with each other, it'll be interesting to see how AMD handles that & having more options for consumers is always welcome. I speculate the price might be $349 for a six core V-cache part. What's your thoughts?
@@carl8790 Well considering the hype for X3D, it's understandable they wouldn't launch the most budget option right away. It may depend on how well the 7900X3D sells. If my suspicions are correct, I think it's inevitable... We'll likely see at least a $100 mark-up on on all X3D parts. By the time it'd launch I'd say it would slot in around $379, often on sale around $349 which effectively replaces the current 5800X3D price point. MSRP could be higher as it'd likely outperform the 7700X in many titles but I doubt it'd sell well. We'll have a better idea how much sense a 7600X3D would be after people start testing the 7900 with CCD2 disabled.
When you start making Benchmarks for those new 3D processors, make sure to include MMO's in them, as that's where supposedly highest uplift is present.
MMO are hard to test so no… It is not gonna happen… But it is true that MMO benefits from 3dcache a lot, so look best case scenarios in other games and you will get those at MMO…
IF you're not planning to upgrade your PC in the next 2 years, you should absolutely build an AM4 system now. It's a mature platform and unlikely to throw any curveball in your workflow. I wont invest on an AM5 build till at least '24.
Not sure where you are but the 5800x3d aren't price competitive in Australia yet, better off going a 13th gen with value for money. Hopefully that changes with the 7x3d price dropping
It's really an apples and oranges comparison, though, because you can't just drop n swap a 7000 series in place of a 5000 series like you could a 5000 series with a 3000 series on the B550 and X570 boards. So you not only have to get a new motherboard because of the new die, you also need the new and significantly more expensive DDR5 RAM to go with it. It's the total package cost that makes it difficult to judge generational jump because there's more than just the chipset that got a mandatory upgrade to support it.
@@-opus That's nice. But you're still never going to get an even comparison because upgrading to a 7000 series means, by definition, also upgrading from DDR4 to DDR5 RAM. You can't not. Therefore there's additional uplift that can be attributed to more than just the CPU. Too many variables to account for to produce meaningful conclusions.
@@ShneekeyTheLost A comparison can still (very obviously) be made between the 2, it just includes different ram and a different motherboard. Generational comparisons are very common, even the manufacturers use them...or lie about them.
My favorite channel. I own the mod mat, a couple shirts, and will watch EVERYTHING. I've even been checking out some of the much much older videos XD LOVE YOU FAMBAM!
12 and 16 core models have two CCDs, that one of which is using 3D V-Cache, so the normal ccd could boost as it do in normal counterparts, it is effectively means that 8 of that 16 core can reach 5.7 MHz boost and the other 8 will be limited to 5.0 MHz.
I never understood why AMD did not launch the 3D versions from day one. This would have put them well in front of Intel 13th gen. I would have built an AMD system but 13th gen was released and gaming performance topped AMD 7000 so couldn't be stuffed waiting for the 3D version. But who knows cost performance may end up being terrible anyway.
Selling normal Ryzen 7000 at launch and saving x3d parts for mid generation allows them to get a bump in sales mid generation. It also allows them to have a period of time where they're selling higher margin non x3d parts for premium prices before they have to inevitably drop the prices to slot in x3d parts into the lineup (they're not nvidia so they're not going to price them stupidly high just because it's the technical best).
heck yes! I really wanted to upgrade to a 5800X3D but didn't see a point since the AM4 platform is dead now. This will definitely encourage me to build a new PC this year assuming the chips are good. Can't wait for the review!
If you want to have ddr4… Buy AMD AM4 platform with 5800x3d… if you want to have ddr5 platform buy AMD AM5 with 7800x3d. Why use intel purely for ddr4 reason? Nothing wrong at intel at the current situation, but DDR4 is not the good reason to chose Intel. Productivity programs is good reason to chose Intel though!
It looked like the 7950X3D has only one 3D cache stack on top of one of the CCDs... That could explain why the 2 CCD CPUs boost higher. The higher boosting cores are on the CCD that doesn't have the stacked cache on top. Since the 7800X3D has only one CCD, that could explain the difference in boost clocks. Just checked the specs of the 7950X... it already has a total of 80MB cache (L2 and L3 combined) and the 7950X3D will have 144MB cache (L2, L3 and L3 3DVcache combined), so that means the 7950X3D will get 64MB additional L3 cache. The 7700X has 40MB cache (L2 and L3 combined) and the the 7800X3D will have 104MB cache (L2, L3 and L3 3DVcache combined), that also means it will get 64MB 3dVcache. So my theory is correct. On the 7900X3D and the 7950X3D only one CCD will have the stacked cache and the other one won't. The one without it, will boost as high as the non X3D Versions of the CPUs.
I just got a 13700k a month and a half ago. I’m really curious to see how these fair. I told my wife we’d build her a system if she likes gaming as she’s currently using my old one. I may give her the 13700k and go AM5 myself
You know that the x3d are soo expensive CPU. And powerful at the same time. But because for am5 motherboard to support until 2025 or 2027. This is the best choice for the rest of us.
You're correct, only one of the two CCDs has the vcache. This is confirmed by the amount of cache they stated, else they would have 192MB L3 + 1MB L2 for each core. It makes sense they made them this way.
@@VaMpiRe-xo8er It's good, you get the best of both worlds, extra cache from one die and more clock speed from the other die. You can watch AMD talks more about it in this video ruclips.net/video/ZdO-5F86_xo/видео.html
The likely reason they are able to advertise the same max boost clocks for 7900x3d and 7950x3d but not 7800x3d is because the 7900/7950x3d are only using V-cache on one of the CCD's. The V-cache CCD will likely still have lower Fmax, while the non V-cache CCD will be the one that can hit the same Fmax as the non-x3d variants. So they are going for the best of both worlds, and still get to advertise the same Fmax as non-x3d. Could explain the lower TDP also.
I know seriously though; I'm personally leaning more towards the 7900x3d or the 7950x3d Cpu. Gpu wise, they really are all extreme piles of S***. But either way I'll have to choose one sadly, so probably the 4090 "depressingly", that would be the only Gpu worth combing with a high end x3d part. It really sucks when you can't even be excited about building your first high end rig being that you actively know your being screwed over price wise and missing DP 2.1 to top it off. I just really want to build a Badass gaming rig already, I'm currently running a Asus Scar gaming laptop with a 32" 1440p monitor but I'm ready to jump to a 41.5" Asus Oled 4k monitor now. I know this laptop won't be able to handle that natively in games. Any thoughts or opinion's is appreciated.
@@elkomander3510 4090 is really for 4k gaming, 4080 is going to work well with the new x3d's also at 1440p gaming, i live in australia and the 4090 base model is 3.1k but i managed to snag a 4080 for 2.1k(still incredibly stupid pricing but what ever)im not paying an extra 1k for a 20-30% performance boost lol.
@@TheMessiah1337 Yeah that's exactly why that's the only Gpu I'm considering right now honestly. I really wanted AMD to come out with a beast of a card that would at least go blow to blow with the 4090 like last gens 6950xt pretty much tied with the 3090ti. But sadly the 7900XTX isn't close in performance to the 4090. I'm sure someone on RUclips will post a video running a 7950x3d with a 4090 to see what kind of performance uplift we're getting compared to the 7950x. Hopefully it'll at least be a 10-15% improvement in games, that would be the only way to justify spending the extra bill on it. If the uplift isn't worth it then I'll just get the 7950x. I'm wanting to build a beast of a 4k gaming rig, so I don't have to upgrade for at least 2 years till next gen Gpu's and Cpu's come out. But yeah pricing on the 4090 and 4080 is insane. I'll get it retail though, only way I'll buy it. I'm not going to support these Fu**s scalping everybody. I'll keep gaming on my laptop if I can't get one at retail pricing.
Really looking forward to your tests. I just got a water cooled 4080, but have a crap 6 core cpu, so I’m waiting for the 7900x3d to come out to upgrade
I recently started digging into this channel, and I really enjoy the methodical nature of you and your team's work. As a hardware design engineer, I tend to be a stickler for this kind of content, but to me, this is top tier review content You cover the important things, I almost never catch any misnomers or faking of knowledge and understanding in your videos. Keep up the good work, and fighting the good fight!
I was hoping for a 7600X3D processor. I've been a Hexacore fan since the 1100T. Looks like a 7900X3D is going to be my next purchase. It at least is a multiple of 6.
same, it was obviously the best pick for X3D as you dont need more than 4c8t for gaming, so their 6c 12t part would be the best pick as X3d isnt that great in other things, if not making it slower like with the 5800X3d
@@angelaguilera600 I dont believe so but i've not ran benchmarks or looked at bottlenecks. I'd assume the GPU is still going to be bottlenecked by the CPU.
@@angelaguilera600 depends probably. at 2k it might work out, at 4k youre going to be gpu bottlenecked. I got something weaker than a 7950x3D in gaming and im sometimes cpu bottlenecked and sometimes gpu with a much stronger gpu than the 3090. but at 2k it might work out. ( depending on how fast that cpu will exactly be.
@@XX-_-XX420 I’m just looking to play at 1440p, I really want a beast cpu for tarkov. So would that be okay? (I’m aware I probably don’t have to buy a high end cpu, but I want it haha)
I really hope that single thread performance of these chips won't suffer that much. I want to have gaming performance and good emulation performance, which is really clock heavy
More interested in the cheaper Zen 4 parts. I got the 5800X3D because moving over to AM5 just for 7000X3D would've cost me upwards of 1k whereas this CPU only cost me 350 euro. I'll wait for Zen 5 3D V-Cache which should demolish these things easily.
Upgrading from a 5ghz 8700k chip. Was thinking of a 13600k but now I'm going to wait for 7800X3D. It'll be a pure itx gaming build so hopefully AMD can keep the temp down.
What you should be concerned about is power consumption; not the temperature at which it operates. The limited ventilation in an ITX chassis means heat is harder to dissipate. The temperature at which a CPU or GPU runs (as long as within design tolerance) is largely irrelevant.
Been putting off a build for a good while waiting for the new x3d line up, will be looking closely at the 7900x3d but curious to see what kind of temperatures these will get compared to the X if it's any better or worse.
7040 series mobile chips are the most exciting for me. Hopefully these APUs are as efficient as they claim and even though rdna3 so far isn’t quite as many hoped it seems like the onboard graphics could play many modern games at a respectable rate. Really wish the lenovo nano came with this new chip but that doesn’t look like it will happen, rather the heavier z13 will get it. X3D also cool but I’m looking for a laptop 😂
I'm still waiting for any laptop with RDNA2 that doesn't come with a dedicated GPU. Seriously, every one of them has at least a 3050 stuffed into it and is at least $300 overpriced because of it. This completely nullifies the reason I set out to find a laptop with an AMD processor in the first place. ☹
Gamers nexus is our consumer protection in the computer sciences . Steve speaks and the industry listens. Love supporting good people . Happy new year . Hope you continue this business for many years to come . Thank you
PLEASE benchmark TARKOV when you eventually get these CPUS, no joke Escape From Tarkov with its super demanding CPU might be the number one reason why so many people bought the 5800X3D.
I'm really curious to see real-world reviews of the X3D and non-X variants of these CPUs. I'm really happy to hear they are dialing back the past consumption. I found it very annoying to consider buying a to end product only to find the major advantage to AMD's CPUs had been thrown out. I personally find the balance of IPC to post consumption to be the major strength of AMD's products, and was concerned that I was going to have to start reevaluating my position on that.
I Would wait a few months for reviews of the 7000 and 7950X3D. To properly use these 3D processors it will need OS support somewhat like how Intel needs OS support for the Alderlake E cores. Currently, i'm afraid Windows will just randomly pick a core to push a program to, without bothering to check if it would run better on the 3D cache chiplet, or not 3D chiplet Like yes its cool that i get a 3D chiplet that only goes to 5Ghz, but then get a non3D chiplet that can go to 5.7Ghz on the same CPU, the problem is getting the programs to go to the chiplet that best suites its needs.
@denvera1g1 Expect some worms dealing with Windows 💀. For Microsoft, this probably would be just another opportunity to try nudging people to windows 11, by delaying a windows 10 fix, if it came to that.
considering 5800x3D still trades blows against 13900k in some games i think its safe to say it will be much better that it and even than the upcoming 13900ks
7950x3d and 7900x3d has two CCDs but only one CCD has 3d-vcache, that's why the boost freqeucy is still the same on the CCD without 3d-vcache. But 7800x3d has only one CCD, that's why its boost frequency is limited to 5 ghz.
One thing you missed Steve was the X3D ('CCD') cores do not boost, they are mixed in with standard cores to complement them which can boost, so it's a bit misleading that on there hardware spec. I believe the AMD 7000 X3D series GPUs will offer class leading gaming performance but maybe not the killer gaming performance we all hoped for.
The differences in the frequency for the 3D chips, and the fact that all 3 models are getting the same 64 MB of v-cache suggests that the v-cache is only applied to one of the two CCDs for the 7900x3d and 7950x3d. The CCD with v-cache will have a reduced boost clock like the 7800x3d while the CCD without v-cache will boost to the rated clock speed. At least that's the only way all this information makes sense to me. Having half the cache added to each CCD and this somehow not being subject to the normally reduced clock speed certainly doesn't make sense.
That would explain why the single-CCD model has such a large boost clock penalty compared with the others. I think having half the cores be high frequency and another half be high cache would be a nightmare.
@@kotekzot Well it seems like it's aimed at balancing workloads (and cost,) so you don't load single-threaded performance in workloads where the cache isn't useful, but still have the cache for games, and you don't need more than one CCD for games. It's all going to come down to the thread scheduler though, and we may end up in the same situation as Intel where gamers decide to disable the extra cores if it's possible to.
@@nimbulan2020 Intel couldn't figure out scheduling for big.LITTLE, where the most performant type of core is known in advance, AMD trying to figure out scheduling for high cache vs high clock cores has no chance of success.
@@kotekzot Yeah it certainly could be problematic, but the performance difference between the two core types will be much smaller than P-cores vs E-cores at least. I did finally find official confirmation that this is in fact what they did over in this video: ruclips.net/video/ZdO-5F86_xo/видео.html
Steve, I was confused about the new x-less AMD processors. Can we have another spreadsheet of the price-to-x value of the component market again? I'd really appreciate it.
I have seen this discussed other places, but it will be interesting to see on the higher SKU two chiplet parts if only one CCD gets the extra cache. That could explain why the 7800X3D gets a boost reduction (only one CCD) whereas the e.g. 7950X3D may have one CCD that boosts to the original value (essentially a 7950X CCD) paired with a Vcache CCD that can't boost to the original value.
![[4K] Watch SpaceX Catch A Starship Rocket From Space!!! #IFT5](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pIKI7y3DTXk/mqdefault.jpg)
AMD noted it was "switching gears" (just in the keynote) from consumer/desktop discussion as it moved into medical discussion, so it completed the consumer component topics without mentioning price on the X3D CPUs. No change to the topic in the above video.
Watch the NVIDIA RTX 4070 Ti review: ruclips.net/video/N-FMPbm5CNM/видео.html
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So AMD hasn't solidified a price for X3d yet?
You can bet these are going to be expensive...
Thank you for being brutally honest in your 4070Ti review, other reviewers have gone too easy on Nvidia
@@maaax1173 You obviously haven't read Steve's Community post then.
Thanks for telling us that there is no news, when there was no news. No, I am serious. So often nobody does that.
I found it really odd how little time they spent in the presentation on their VCache chips. They basically glossed over the 7900X3D lol. They also just mentioned more affordable AM5 motherboards launching and 65W variants in like 1 sentence. I thought they would've spent a little more time talking about that given how the lower end has been kind of a pain point for competing with Intel.
Yeah, seems like they wanted all the airtime for the executive talking section. CES is like that sometimes. Hope they realize what a boost it would be to have cheaper boards -- definitely worth more than 1 sentence.
@@GamersNexus Seriously, all the executive self/cross fondling is so hard to sit through.
@Gamers Nexus Are the chips unlocked? Like can you overclock them like the 7000X variant?
honestly sounds like amd losing faith in consumer market because consumers aren't buying up tech as much with inflation and all. they gotta please investors in some way :p
if they had a great product they would have stayed focused on it. something is up. the way AMD has over rated / over hyped there recent products, i dunno.
When you eventually review these... can we please get a video dedicated to all the newest Ryzen CPUs benchmarks/testing that also includes their ECO mode benchmarks? Incredibly useful for people looking to high end power efficient chips with low profile coolers in SFF cases.
That's a legitimate request...😎👍☕
A guide/review on AM5 mobos and ddr5 ram along side would also be amazing. Got very used to evaluating the quality of ddr4 modules, but really haven’t wanted to do the forum deep dives to relearn everything with ddr5.
Also doesn’t seem to be a lot of guidance on am5 mobos out there right now.
I agree! I would love to see this.
Upvote on this ! This comment is gold.
that holds true even for ATX builds honestly
It will be very interesting to see the performance uplift of these new 3D cache CPUs. They are almost getting to the point where you can essentially install small games directly to the CPU memory, which is a bit insane.
According to leaks, the uplift is around 15%
@@vinylSummer It seems pointless to generalize when it comes to this technology. The average might work out to 15%, but if you heavily play something like World of Warcraft then that's massively underselling it. The gain from the 5800X to the 5800X3D in that game was in the region of 50%, yet you're not going to see anything like that in many other games. As always, you should buy the best product for you personally, based on what YOU play.
Can't wait for the day we have 1 gig + of cache on a cpu
We've come to the point where the Linux kernel legitimately fits into the cache.... Absolutely insane
@@ubacow7109 won't happen because memory doesn't scale
The entire GN team seems to be killing it in recent videos. Steve's 'stand-up' routines are fantastic. Keep up the great work.
"Recently"?
the GN team have been pretty much killing it every time something released last couple years, however they do go over everything even when stuff is released in quick succession like how it is these days so that's mention worthy I guess
@@balazsdusek Totally agree. Probably should have added something along the lines of "even more so than in the past". Something about the recent stuff just seems too be of a higher caliber.
L3 does wonders for MMO games like World of Warcraft or any MMO really. I went from a 5600x to a 5800x3d and saw a boost of around 30fps in very populated areas at 3840x1600p(3090) in WoW. Logged onto WoW before i upgraded my cpu as was sitting at around 65fps in WoW classic Dalaran and when i logged back in after putting in the 5800x3d I was at 100fps with small dips to around 95fps. In all my time of playing MMOs I've never been able to have smooth fps when you get a boat load of people around. I also tried Guild Wars 2 the other day and had zero frame rate issues with a crap ton of people on the screen. The big level 3 does wonders, and i would think Intel would follow suit.
Your gonna need a very powerful GPU to take advantage of that CPU and the massive cache will not work for everything.
@@ZackSNetwork yeah no, you really don’t. Most mmo are cpu bound.
This is great information. I only play MMORPG and to hear your upgrade improved drastically is encouraging!
I can't wait for 7900X3D I've got everything else except that.
What's the ram speed you're using with It?
Intel has been increasing their cache a lot too, just no "3D cache" like AMD.
They went from 16MB to 30MB between 11th gen and 13th gen for the i7s.
They've been stuck on 8MB or 12MB for a while, but it's finally changing.
There is only one V-cache die for all X3D models. So because the 7800X3D only has one CCD, it is clock limited like the 5800X3D. The 7900X3D and 7950X3D have an additional CCD with no V-cache stacked on it, so those cores can still boost up to their max boost.
So one CCD can boost to full rated Ghz and has no vcache, and the other is boost limited but has vcache? If that's true, their slides are a bit misleading. It does make sense though. Lots of people won't be happy about that solution, if it turns out to be true.
@@jasonhurdlow6607 It's L3 cache so the cores can reach across CCDs to get to it. So the fast cores still have access to the whole pool.
EDIT: For Zen 3 it was a 4x penalty to latency reaching across CCDs.
@@ShredBird but is it closer to the actual cc’d?
@@ShredBird But the cost of cross-die communication in Ryzen is high since the data must be moved to the io-die, then to the other die. That's why some game performs better on 5800x/7800x than 5950x/7950x.
@@yukin6430 Yes, that's true, but the 7900X and 7950X are both already doing that and going to RAM is an eternity compared to going over Infinity Fabric to neighboring cache. Larger L3 pool, less trips to RAM.
Not sure where the trade-off is in terms of latency.
7900X3D, the thing I wanted to see more than anything else and have been putting off building to hear about.
the 7800x3d would have been great if the clocks where as high.
@@666Necropsy i guess you can overclock the hell out of it even with Aircooler
@@zackzackjo I don't think any of the x3d processors can be overclocked.
@@zyloctal That's technically true, but a lot of motherboard manufacturers have added bios updates to allow it.
@@something3610 I see many stablity issues with overclocking a locked processor. But would be interesting to see some posts about it.
Looking forward to the 7x3d reviews. Be interesting to see what you guys find.
I bought a 5800x for 230 bucks when the 7000 series just came out. Just bought a good enough b550 board. Even though the platform is dead i am happy with price to performance.
Doesn't matter if the platform is dead when u upgrade in 4-5 years
@@FenrirAlter thats what i thought when i bought it
I ended up getting an x570 board from ASUS, and dropped a 5900x in it, I've been quite happy with that. Not touching any new-generation stuff until it matures a bit more.
sure intels platform is ded too. :)
So reading between the lines a bit: looks like they explicitly have a 3D cache *chiplet* in particular. Looking at specs, the 7900X3D and 7950X3D appear as though they have one 3D cache chiplet and one normal cache chiplet. That would explain the weird boost clock listings (7800X3D has the lower clocks you'd expect, 79_0X3D are "up to" the same boost) and why the cache size jump from the 7800X3D is smaller than you might think.
I'm...not sure how this'll work out in practice. In theory it sounds not that dissimilar to Intel's P-core + E-core and sounds awesome for supporting both workloads that need faster cores and workloads that benefit from more cache. In reality I doubt schedulers will use the normal vs 3D-cache cores efficiently - Windows already has enough problems scheduling between two chiplets.
If AMD's claims about Infinity Fabric are accurate they might be perfectly happy to have tasks scheduled to the higher performance CCD and just pull data across Infinity Fabric from the other CCD's cache.
@@bosstowndynamics5488 that sounds actually brilliant and just awesome!
@@Josurr_Madhawk I don't know if that's actually what they're doing, but it does make sense. We'll need to see proper tests to know for sure
The 5800X3D launched at the same MSRP as the 5800X, albeit almost 2 years later.
It will be interesting how AMD will price-structure the new 3D cache chips now they are launching so close to their regular version.
Cache will increase the price about $150 to $200. Just look the price difference between 5800x and 5800x3d, that will give you the delta / cache chip.
@@haukikannel at this point thats just market determined though, amd does not necessarily have to follow that trend if they want to really promote those chips.
Definitely will be upmarked a fair bit, or they will just canibalize on their non-X3D chips. Probably each chip will cost between 1-2 tiers above its non-X3D counterpart.
7800X3D $550
7900X3D $750
7950X3D $900
But the fact they didn't mention prices makes me think that they could go the $1000 way for the 7950X3D and scale the rest from there.
@@haukikannel Price isn't just determined by the different in production cost though. 5800X3D was the fastest gaming CPU on a relatively cheaper platform that was outselling Intel at the time. The 7800X3D won't be the fastest gaming CPU (although still faster than the competition), but it's also on a platform that's being outsold by Intel.
I honestly don't see how they can ask more for that chip than for a 7900. Is the implementing the V-cache die really more expensive than adding another chiplet?
Noticed that the total cache of X3D parts suggests that only one of the dies in the 7900X3D and 7950X3D has stacked cache. By inference of the 7800X3D's max boost frequency, the Vcache die in the 7900 and 7950X3D will likely be similarly restricted in frequency (~5GHz) despite the much higher boost frequency stated which is likely the boost frequency of the standard non Vcache die in those CPUs.
Yeah, if you look a picture of the 7950X3D, only one of the CCDs has the vcache stacked on top.
What does this mean to a buyer?
@@ericcotter1984 unreliable performance and annoyance most likely.
@@oxfordsparky what? lol, my man drank too much green paint
Well if thats a Thing thats… bad. That would mean they cant make the IHS really thinner and that would mean still relatively bad Thermals. I would assume on the Location of the Chip with the V Cache it will still be smaller but overall the Heat Issue because of the Thicker IHS will persist.
If thats the Case… really… i think this is an (huge) oversight for no Reason… really. Those CPUs could run 10 Degrees less hot i think i remember from Tests ppl did. Der8auer i think was testing this. Really not a Fan of that Info now.
Likely the increased cache is only present on one CCD for the 7950x and 7900x. Therefore, the other CCD can still boost higher. That is not possible for the 7800x3d with only one CCD
Yes AMD have confirm that stacked CCD's (vcache) can not boost but the other CCD's can. 😃 Very astute observation!
Arh that's why the boost on the 8 core model can't boost high.
It's almost similar to P/E cores in that case. Instead now its just cache/clock cores.
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@@etgftgjd434 FU.
Upgraded from a ryzen 5 3600 to the 5800x3d during black friday. Best upgrade ever. Have no reason to move to the new am5. Nice to see a real option for gamers to migrate to the new generation soon. Don't want to see how much they cost though...
L3 cache is AMAZING for unity based games. One of the community members for vrchat published a blog stating the 5800x3d has something like a 50% uplift over the 13900k, this is great news
hush..no its not..its terrible makes your fps even worse by 50%
@@SpaceRanger187 can you both share your findings on why it does and why it doesnt?
Jesus Christ. Gotta get me one of these chips.
50% what lol. intel is using more l2 cache now. its faster. they have all so increased l3. they attacked any spec AMD had.over them.
Why does unity make use of L3 cache so much?
AMD didn't clarify this, but the 12 core and 16 core X3D only have a single chiplet 3D stacked, that is why the L2+L3 cache numbers are like that (32 MB per chiplet + 64MB stacked in only one CCD + 1 MB per core).
This could lead to some issues if a game process isn't kept inside the 3D stacked chiplet, it's a bit of a big.little situation.
Was this confirmed, or could they have designed a different cheaper 32mb cache to use across the dual die chips, which might explain their higher clocks to make up for the smaller per core cache, as well?
@@TheAzzzzzzzza That could be, but then they would have to use another 64MB cache die for the 7800X3D, as this one has 64MB of additional cache. And in terms of thermal resistance (transistor count is another thing), it does not make a difference if you put a 32MB or a 64MB chiplet on a CCD.
So my guess based on cache numbers and the reduced clock speed of the 7800X3D would also be that only one CCD gets a 64MB chiplet.
If that is true it is 100% just stupid. But it might explain the boost clocks. The CCD with no cache can boost higher. But 7800x3d only got the one with cache. So it is going to boost lower.
Like sure... But this basically means 7800x3d is the only 3xd that matters. Since scheduling and BS is a problem. And if your doing Gaming and Productive tasks. I mean sure... But like... This seems more like a BETA test for small and big cores future down the line.
It's a massive glaring design choice AMD glossed over, that the dual chiplet models are now effectively hybrid architecture CPUs and the performance depends a lot on how the windows 11 scheduler handles it
Buy it guinea pig, so we can enjoy their fix during the 8000's series
It's nice of Steve to use the GT 1030 DDR4 variant as a paper weight. Gives it some purpose for it's existence.
A few months back I upgraded from a 3700x to a 5800x3d and just love it. I'm not in the market for another CPU yet, but am happy to know they are continuing the 3d CPUs, as I'll definitely want another one in the future.
I did the same thing. 😂
What's the ram speed you're using with It?
I was gonna go from a 3600 to a 5800x3d myself but I couldn't find any for less than $400. For that price I just got a used motherboard on eBay and switched to the 13600k lol
You'll need a new mobo
5800x3D should be enough for years. But these new CPUs seem good too.
Planning on upgrading to a 7800X3D from an i7 7700k.
I'm staying tuned for your review!
Im in for that too. Have a 7700k and the 7800x3d looks like a good upgrade.
I got the 7600x and I couldn’t be happier it’s what I needed at a great price for 230. That being said I want amd to keep pushing forward and releasing better and better cpus because once’s they finish releasing there last cpu for this gen I’ll be buying it for a nice upgrade! Till then I’m all set
Same, I've got a 7600x paired with a 3080ti I got for 650 used. It's a baller system
What cooler did y’all get for it? Waiting for shipment :).
@@Victor-bu8ce I went with the d15 with a single fan since two will block the ram and stick up to much keeping my case door from shutting the max temps I’ve seen have been under 60. It’s a huge upgrade from my 4790k no bottlenecks or anything
Very nice to see the AMD CPU range rounded out - lots of good choices. We just need to start hearing about reasonably priced platforms to use them in!
Hope that when the X3D CPUs are actually tested we're pleasantly surprised with the thermals - so that in the future we could see them as a normal part of the lineup!
You already get good thermals in 105W Eco mode :)
@@Slimmeyy Except these CPUs have a cache slapped on top, which really heats up the CPU.
Temp difference between a 5800x and a 5800x3D is insane. The latter STILL throttles even with an AIO.
@@ThallesNinja Wildly inaccurate. The 5800X3D literally has lower temps because of the lower clock speeds (check Hardware Unboxed's video for proof)
@@Slimmeyy I own a 5800x3D. All you gotta do is google search for "5800x3D temps" to see for yourself. Even reviewers pointed out the 5800x3D reaches throttle temps (90c) during rendering benchmarks.
The cache while incredibly useful, interferes with the chip's cooling.
@@ThallesNinja just looked at Linus' review, and they're not complaining either. Not throttling at a full-blast stress test WITH AN AIR COOLER, and extremely close to the regular 5800X.
This is what I was waiting on before I do my next upgrade. If the 7900X3D performs as well as the 5800X3d vs the 5800X I'll definitely be upgrading!
I might upgrade too. My 8700k is starting to show its age, especially as it’s paired with a 3080. We’ll see though. I also might try to get a 4090 when the 5000 series rolls around. I might not get new gpus anymore. Prices are just ridiculous. I remember when a gtx980 was $500
@@berengerchristy6256 yeah 8700k is a great grandma compared to these new CPUs. Excited to see what the 7800x3d and 7900x3d bring to the table. Honestly the 7700x with 32GB of ddr5 6000 free at microcenter is by far the best gaming CPU deal right now.
@@audiophizile13 if you live near a microcenter you're lucky
@@berengerchristy6256 absolutely. I've lived near them in 2 states but still have family close to one that can get stuff for me should I need it. That 7700x deal is incredibly tempting even with the x3d's coming out. $344 with FREE 32GB 6000 and $20 off a MB. Insane.
7000X3D needs to be priced right. The motherboard prices are already a blow. Please don't overprice these CPU's!
It is easy… Look 5800x price. Compare it to 5800x3d price. We can see that 3d cache cost about $150 to $200. So take 7800x and ad $200 to that price and you have 7800x3d price in there! Ofcourse the price delta can be higher than $200, but 5800x vs 5800x3d gives us good estimation!
@@haukikannel 7800X3D should be $399 since 7700X is $330 now, AMD are playing with fire if they price it higher than $399 with current motherboard prices bring high. $420 will be the max I can tolerate at the most!
I'm on an old 4790k & 970. Long overdue and upgrade. The 7950X3D could be the one for me late this year if prices are reasonable. On paper it sounds like a beast, look forward to the GN reviews!
Hell yeah 4790k gang
It will be an insane upgrade, you will be glad that you waited this long for such a huge upgrade rather than buying new components every 2 years for little gain.
I still have my 970 and 4790K, that was a great pairing, when like 7 years before upgrading.
Did the same early last year, went from an 2500 non-k to a 5950x, absolutely insane upgrade
@@nothorren I went from a 2500K to a 3600X and then just a year or so later a 5900X! xD Its so mad! :D
Very exciting to see what X3D can bring to the 7000 generation
I love my 5800X3D, so I cant even imagine what these monsters will do.
Not worth it according to Gamer’s Nexus. Pay more for the same amount of X’s in the product name.
@@maperez12 not really if there wasn't any gains they wouldn't of launch it
@@maperez12 and where did GN say that?
@Chris Wright seems like 10%-15% over the 13900k for what seems a lot of money (30% more) if leaks are accurate.
Yes! Currently in the hospital right now. Been super stressful. I really appreciate you posting a video just made the rest of my night much better!
Get well soon
Happy to provide any escape we can -- hope you feel better soon!
@@GamersNexus thanks so much
7900X3D looks like it could be a nice chip if holds those boost clocks.
Apparently CCD's are different. Some will have the cache some won't.
I have a 7700x i built a few weeks ago with 360 mm AIO cooler. My temps are about 10 degrees c below the 95 c tj maxx under all core work loads. The box puts it at 5.4 ghz, but I've seen mine boost to 5.9 ghz with no over clock configured. You'll get amazing performance with good thermal paste and a better than average cooler.
@@Kizzster it's just the 7900X/7950x that already have 2 CCD's that will have the L3 cache die stacked on a single CCD while the second CCD will do all the boost work
@@Kizzster Not sure I'm understanding what you're saying. All the CCDs on the chip would have the 3D Vcache.
@@madweazl only one does
i've been using Ryzen 5 1600 for like 5 years, i think i'm gonna upgrade to 7600 non X, so excited
The naming on the laptop GPUs is rather nice to be honest. When buying a laptop with NVIDIA GPU, the information on what power target is for that exact model is hard to find, and it can lead to serious performance gains/losses. While S/M is a little confusing it's a step in a tight direction
Seems like an abbreviation of mobile and slim also which is very straigh forward
so pumped for these new x3Ds, have been waiting for the 7950x3D since it was rumored months ago
Ngl, 7900x3dx is probably going to be my next build unless it's shown to be not too much better than the 7800. Built a 3770k build with a 660 in 2013, upgraded to a 980, then a 1070 8gb. Been using consoles to offset GPU upgrades since then for some graphical features, but it has played most games that I have wanted to play at more than reasonable frame rates with a g-sync monitor. Even if I keep the 1070 till a GPU that doesn't suck comes out, I feel like it's time to upgrade. If the am5 platform will allow CPU upgrades until 2025, this feels like the time to build a system that might potentially last as long as what I have right now because it seems like when this system that I currently have right now was built at the best time to ensure the most longevity and the perfect storm is happening again. If anyone with a different opinion that is helpful can make a sound rebuttal I'd love to hear it
Yeah I'm on a Ryzen 2600x and a 1660 GTX TI. I'd like to move to DDR5 and faster PCI E. I think this is when I finally upgrade. The 7900x3d sounds really really good. We'll have to wait and see!
i feel ya, im on a 4770k thats gone through an HD 6950, 750ti, R9 Fury, and finally a GTX1080. im waiting for the perfect combination of value and longevity to spring for (most likely) am5
@@butterfingersman Yeah the GPU prices are ridiculous right now. I can't justify spending $1000+ on just a damn GPU, that's crazy. I'm predicting that prices will never be the same for GPU's ever again because people are still willing to pay the high prices and companies don't lower their prices to ''help people and be moral''.
@@wombat5252 the prices have been ridiculous, but at least the 6600xt and 6700xt have had a lot of good sales recently and basically put it at the only good price to performance cards for the last couple of generations. it's not exactly the upgrade for me (im happy with my 1080 at 1080p) but they are great value when on sale. honestly though, amd, nvidia, and intel need to start fighting at the $200-400 mark when you consider how many buget gpu buyers have been left behind. it's a real shame that the market segment that made the rx480 such an exciting launch seems to be such an afterthought today.
that being said, i was mostly talking about cpus, and when am5 gets some decently affordable motherboards and ram, i can finally move up from this ancient 4770k, which will be super nice, my 4.4ghz 4770k is not cutting it in new titles at 1080p.
I'd love to see FFXIV among the benchmark games for these CPUs and would've loved to see it for the 5800X3D as well. There's a massively popular game still, and one that's often CPU bound as MMOs tend to be. I'd love to see a walking around Limsa or hunt train benchmark lol.
Picked up a 7700x when they were on sale and I'm happy...64GB of DD5 and everything is butter smooth.
Hey Steve. I just want to tell you I appreciate the prep time you put into your vids. It's refreshing to see someone figure out what they want to say beforehand rather than have every sentence be a new take and end up looking like max headroom.
As someone that is most interested in complex combat flight and space sims. It'll be interesting to see how well of an increase these new X3D chips will perform.
agreed, this also carries over into the racing sim area.
Might get one of these for planetside 2. 5800X3D gave way better performance than the non 3D v cache cpus according to most/all players that got one. It's not really the type of game that can be consistently benchmarked, though.
I'd be super interested in seeing the VR performance benchmarks for these chips when they launch. Especially on Unity titles like VRChat, which absolutely guzzle down L3 cache
Has anyone ever done any VRChat benchmarks? how would you even... I doubt it's a general unity thing.
More VR benchmarks are certainly needed, VR enthusiasts are probably among the most hardware hungry and yet almost nobody provides the benchmarking.
@@sluxi tupper tested 5800X3D get 30%-80% more performance on VRChat compared to 3900X
@@sluxi
How much market share does VR have? That might be the reasons why nobody tests it, what a shame.
@@BBWahoo how much market share do high end gaming CPUs and GPUs have? That is also a tiny part of the market. Many of the people interested in VR are also interested in those simply because they could always use the performance boost a 4090 or a 7950X3D affords them.
@@sluxi
Then VR is a fraction of a fraction of that tiny market, which is why no one bothers to show any benchmarks. Let's hope there's a change in the near future
2 uploads in one day, what a start to the year! Keep up the awesome work. And all the best for 2023
Thanks, Steve. Happy X3D New Year!!
I wonder if with the stack height of the new X3D chips would make the IHS thinner than the massive piece they use now making cooling a little more effective.
Don't think so, as it seems only one CCD gets a cache chiplet. So it's likely that AMD will sand down one CCD to avoid having different IHS. And I don't think steps in an IHS would be good during soldering process.
@@johnscaramis2515 Doesnt make much sense to me. I am quiet certain what chrono said is true. That was their whole Plan all along. Otherwise they really… fucked up with the thicker IHS because it doesnt make ANY Sense to use but dissipate Heat less efficient. But we will see.
@@johnscaramis2515 I think i now know what you mean… If thats true i think this is stupid from AMD. They could run those CPUs 10 Degrees cooler (which they also need to…) for those CPUs if they would just use a thinner IHS. Really not a Fan of this Info if true. Seems like a huge Oversight to me.
I just in the last 2 weeks, purchased a 7950X, MB, Memory. I was pleasantly surprised to see that the chip is boosting to 5.881GHz on water with no overclocking, just PBO turned on across all CPU's. Going from a Threadripper 2950X that maxed out at 4.2 on "most" chips, this is a huge performance improvement for me.
with socket longevity its going be great upgrading from my 7950x to a 8950x3D
Can we please see benchmarks for flight simulator 2020? MSFS is known to have a huge improvement with X3D chips. Going from 5800x to x3d in my case I saw about 20FPS gain overall and zero stutters, a huge issue with MSFS.
don't they have a new build that uses more cores better?
Man you work hard pumping out Quality Content Steve. Thankyou very much and happy new year.
4:41 the reason the 12 and 16 core didnt get their boost frequencies cut is because they only have one chiplet with cache on it.
This allows the non cache-enhanced chiplet to reach full boost frequencies for programs that need that higher clock speed.
I'll be interested to see how Windows handles the scheduling and thread direction for this, it would be really cool to see the threads that need that extra cache sit on those lower frequency cores, but the threads that cant use the cache because they're either small enough to fit in normal cache, or too large to fit in 3D cache, should see a significant benefit from the 500-700Mhz bump in clock speeds over the 3D chiplet
Oh and technically these could both be 3D stacked chiplets, but that would require the V-cache dies to be ~1/2 the capacity as the 7800X3D
how the hell is the scheduler going to work it all out when it cant even schedule a 7900x two similar, ccds properly cause if it did the 7900x should always beat the 7700x as in addition to more cores it has higher clock boost but it nearly always loses.
Because it has tripple the cache on one CCD meaning it doesnt have to swap between CCDs or park threads as often
The extra cache in the 5800x3d worked wonders in DCS
But the lower IPC, lower clockspeed made it kinda meh vs high end Alder Lake, specially with the productivity regression vs a standard 5800X.
Zen 4 3D is the way to go.
@@saricubra2867 IPC is not a fixed metric,the 5800x3D literally does more instructions per clock then even Raptor lake in Sims like DCS,Star Citizen,just not in most mainstream AAA games.
@@saricubra2867 I haven't got that platform to test, but compared to my 3600xt it was night and day.
@@Kevin-fl7mj 5800X3D doesn't compete with Raptor Lake, it competes with my i7-12700K (12 core chip) for the same price.
If the 5800X3D is truly a higher IPC chip than Raptor Lake (which is the same as Alder Lake), it should destroy Xenia and RPCS3 emulators, but it doesn't.
My i7-12700K in particular (has AVX512 too) can outperform even an i9-13900K. Zen 4 are emulation beasts too with the far superior single core perfomance vs a 5800X3D.
@@saricubra2867 That is not how it works buddy,look up benchmarks for the games i listed and you will see that even the 13700k gets outperformed meaning in that specific workload it has superior IPC.
It will be interesting to see the new X3D chips.
The reason the 7950x3D, and 7900x3D didn't have their frequency cut, is likely because they only use 1 memory v-cache die, and not 2. Only the lower clocked part will likely get the cache die, while the higher 5.7GHz die/CCD will not get extra stacked cache. 144 MB means only 1 die has cache. If it was both, it be 208MB.
Which means we have even more NUMA in this generation of Ryzen than in the previous generation.
Been a new viewer for the last week or so. Ive learned so much and I feel informed. Thanks GN
One CCX is cache optimized. One CCX is clock speed optimized. So a heterogeneous design, with MS coming to say they will assist in scheduling.
Got a feeling all of these scheduling optimizations will be Windows 11 exclusive.
Yep. Only new features are going in W11
I'm excited about 7X3D but my big concern is thermals. I don’t really want to delid one of these to get acceptable temps so I will wait and see. Still happy with my 58X3D.
It's very possible why 7800x has a lower clock because they are lower binned parts from the 7950 and 7900 skus. That would probably explain alot especially if they are made from 2 chiplets from 2 other chips I'm guessing.
I missed it too during the event, and i spent an hour trying to figure out how the got the same boost frequency as nonX while having a 120w TDP, at first i thought they were using those 4nm 45HX mobile chiplets, and then it hit me
***Look at the cache size***
The 7900X and 7950X only have ***one chiplet with 3D cache*** thats why their boost is so high, the other ***chiplet without 3D cache can boost like normal*** you get the best of both worlds.
If they both had 3D cache they'd have a total of 204-208MB not 140-144MB)
The 7800X3D has 3x the L3 cache as the 7700X3D(an extra 64MB)
The 7900X3D has 2x the L3 cache of the 7900X(an extra 64MB)
My hope is that they offer a 7955X3D with 2 3D Cache chiplets for the people who need that cache for home-lab or production workloads, or they want the stability of having a unified core archetecture.
Much like Intel E cores there will be some teething problems with Windows and Linux choosing the correct chiplet.
Does your program benefit from 3D cache, or does it not care about the cache and want frequency?
Its a 50-50 chance that its going on the wrong chiplet without some advanced thread scheduling
@@denvera1g1 that's some good insight, I'm not the most learned on this but your details fit in line with the concept. It's a good way to maximize product and so far zen chips have not disappointed so far. 3900x works great with games and is handy when I 3d print things. But I'm probably undersigned it. still though I think it will last another 3 to 5 years before its age starts to become a factor.
I think I saw a pic from the presentation that showed 7950x3d with the vcache only on top of one of the ccxs. I bet it means only one ccx boosts to the advertised speed and the other only boost to 5 Ghz like the 7800x3d; similar to how some of their dual ccx chips have one good ccx and one bad one that doesn't boost as high.
- The 7900X & 7950X have some de-clock on the X3D versions too. But really with these chips it'll come down to thermals, and be more about how much time can be spent in boost.
- the 5800X vs. 5800X3D went from 32mb L3 to 96mb L3 (or 3x the cache size)
- the 7900x vs. 7900X3D went from 64 to 140mb L3 (or 2.1x the cache size) So it may not scale as much as the previous X3D did. Also, DDR5 with almost double the throughput, and faster infinity fabric, alleviates a bit of the ask for cache. But clock is higher... all depends on how cache hungry the cpu is. But I would expect less uplift (though certainly still some uplift).
and it was ddr4 vs ddr5.
@@j78823 Yep, I thought of that after posting and came back to edit/add that, hehe :) Although, it's got higher CL latency... which asks for a bit more cache.
HIgher clock and more cores (IF utilized by the software) will tend to ask for more cache too. I think X3D's will be very good, just not quite as dominant as the 5800X3D was for the 5000 series.
Personally I got a 7900X cuz I traditionally look for clock > cores > cache (which may be overly simplistic, admittedly). But I managed to cram a 420 rad into a lancool III case (not easy), and a very gentle PBO undervolt, to let the cpu go wild with less of a thermal throttle leash on it.
Something that was noteworthy with the 5800X3D was, that it performed better relative to how poor the ram specs were, as the vcache could compensate for the lack of speed and capacity of the ram. For example if you compared the 5800X3D to a 12700K on 3000 DDR4, then the X3D would see a proportionally large uplift, but if you ran the 12700K with DDR5 or even high-end DDR4 (4k mhz+) then the difference completely vanished (and the X3D didn't really benefit much from faster memory so it didn't matter if it ran DDR4 or DDR5.
It will be interesting to see how much the ram will impact the performance difference this time around.
I think RDNA3 mobile GPU actually showed us potentially what 7600XT looks like in terms of spec. It is going to be exactly like RDNA2 in terms of configuration, the same 32CU (I assume that is CU, not flops, unless it just happen 1CU correspond to 1TFlops) and the same bus width. The die size is a bit smaller (14% smaller) probably owing to the use of 6nm. Looking at the graph, since 6600M only has 28CU, then 6600XT vs 7600XT probably will have smaller performance gap unless it has bigger frequency difference compared to the mobile part, which is probably enough to make 7600XT perform as well as 6700XT. Since they are only using 6nm it should be cheaper per transistor to make vs the bigger RDNA3 chip, thus hopefully AMD can price that at $299 (preferably lower) and budget gamers can now have a GPU that perform great for that price point with good RT performance and also AV1 encoder. I just hope since it probably would perform like 6700XT in raster, they don't price it like 6700XT and really hope they don't use the mining boom pricing as the guideline. Like I said, $299 or lower please.
Edit: I'm also expecting Nvidia won't have an answer to this, especially if AMD priced this hypothetical 7600XT at $299, not when they keep touting 3060 MSRP at $329. If right now lots of budget gamer buying 6600XT, this 7600XT will be an even more slam dunk choice for them.
More dedicated accelerators is going to be the norm soon. AMD packaging it all in one die is the smart move to make. I'm glad that someone in the industry realizes the advantages of having a large APU + hbm integrated into a single node server. Also, their FPGA products are very interesting.
Almost forgot, AMD proved me wrong when they released more than one X3D product, was quite surprised by that announcement.
Well they sort of released 3 X3D models... one, slower V-cache chiplet per package isn't exactly what we were hoping for. Dual CCD models are basically very expensive gaming chips that will likely perform worse than non-3D chips at full frequency in many all-core tasks running.
Also keep in mind, the existence of the 7900X3D basically guarantees an inevitable 7600X3D.
@@JJFX- what were the 3 x3d products? I know of the Milan X and 5800X3D, what was the third?
Edited; nvm you're pointing out the 3, 7000 series x3d products. No, I don't see 7600X3D happening imo. The 7800x3d seems like the only single CCD product to get the V-cache treatment, which makes sense.
@@carl8790 Ah I see what you originally meant now. I say 7600X3D because the 7900X3D is now using 6 core v-cache chiplets. I have a very hard time believing that isn't going to trickle down into a single CCD variant, possibly at a lower boost clock but I doubt they couldn't all achieve the same 5GHz.
Imagine how popular a cheaper 7600X3D would be as board and DDR5 prices stabilize. That would be a great way to jumpstart the slow AM5 adoption before Zen 5 comes out.
@@JJFX- I should be careful of saying 'only' because this is AMD after all, you never know what they're going to do. For my reasoning on why a 7600X3D wouldn't happen, because they would've announced it already on the CES stream. However, I wouldn't be surprise in the future to see a 8600? X3D variant.
It's a lot of variants of the same die, competing with each other, it'll be interesting to see how AMD handles that & having more options for consumers is always welcome.
I speculate the price might be $349 for a six core V-cache part. What's your thoughts?
@@carl8790 Well considering the hype for X3D, it's understandable they wouldn't launch the most budget option right away. It may depend on how well the 7900X3D sells. If my suspicions are correct, I think it's inevitable...
We'll likely see at least a $100 mark-up on on all X3D parts. By the time it'd launch I'd say it would slot in around $379, often on sale around $349 which effectively replaces the current 5800X3D price point. MSRP could be higher as it'd likely outperform the 7700X in many titles but I doubt it'd sell well.
We'll have a better idea how much sense a 7600X3D would be after people start testing the 7900 with CCD2 disabled.
Didn’t expect 3 variations, this could be interesting
Sounds like they could have insane OC potential. Strap a fat 360 rad to it and go to town, gain that 400 MHz boost back and some more.
When you start making Benchmarks for those new 3D processors, make sure to include MMO's in them, as that's where supposedly highest uplift is present.
MMO are hard to test so no… It is not gonna happen… But it is true that MMO benefits from 3dcache a lot, so look best case scenarios in other games and you will get those at MMO…
IF you're not planning to upgrade your PC in the next 2 years, you should absolutely build an AM4 system now. It's a mature platform and unlikely to throw any curveball in your workflow. I wont invest on an AM5 build till at least '24.
Not sure where you are but the 5800x3d aren't price competitive in Australia yet, better off going a 13th gen with value for money. Hopefully that changes with the 7x3d price dropping
Have to see how those new x3d processors benchmark.
I'm probably going with one of those.
Maybe some of the new gpu issues will be sorted out by then.
Very interested to see how the non x cpu's stack up against the 7000x's and the 5000x's
just see the ECO mode in the 7000X reviews, it's virtually the same.
It's really an apples and oranges comparison, though, because you can't just drop n swap a 7000 series in place of a 5000 series like you could a 5000 series with a 3000 series on the B550 and X570 boards. So you not only have to get a new motherboard because of the new die, you also need the new and significantly more expensive DDR5 RAM to go with it. It's the total package cost that makes it difficult to judge generational jump because there's more than just the chipset that got a mandatory upgrade to support it.
@@ShneekeyTheLost I am interested in the performance including power usage, not in the logistics ;)
@@-opus That's nice. But you're still never going to get an even comparison because upgrading to a 7000 series means, by definition, also upgrading from DDR4 to DDR5 RAM. You can't not. Therefore there's additional uplift that can be attributed to more than just the CPU.
Too many variables to account for to produce meaningful conclusions.
@@ShneekeyTheLost A comparison can still (very obviously) be made between the 2, it just includes different ram and a different motherboard. Generational comparisons are very common, even the manufacturers use them...or lie about them.
My favorite channel. I own the mod mat, a couple shirts, and will watch EVERYTHING.
I've even been checking out some of the much much older videos XD
LOVE YOU FAMBAM!
12 and 16 core models have two CCDs, that one of which is using 3D V-Cache, so the normal ccd could boost as it do in normal counterparts, it is effectively means that 8 of that 16 core can reach 5.7 MHz boost and the other 8 will be limited to 5.0 MHz.
I think it's a win-win situation. High single core performance and boosted gaming results.
I never understood why AMD did not launch the 3D versions from day one. This would have put them well in front of Intel 13th gen. I would have built an AMD system but 13th gen was released and gaming performance topped AMD 7000 so couldn't be stuffed waiting for the 3D version. But who knows cost performance may end up being terrible anyway.
They get sweet premium on early adopters willing to pay top dollar to get the latest and greatest.
Selling normal Ryzen 7000 at launch and saving x3d parts for mid generation allows them to get a bump in sales mid generation. It also allows them to have a period of time where they're selling higher margin non x3d parts for premium prices before they have to inevitably drop the prices to slot in x3d parts into the lineup (they're not nvidia so they're not going to price them stupidly high just because it's the technical best).
It takes time to test and validate new products. Vcache needs it's own test and validation.
It takes time to test and validate new products. Vcache needs it's own test and validation.
Can't launch something they don't have(at the time) and postponing vanilla Zen4 for almost 6 months wasn't an option.
Being as AMD did not discuss pricing for the new X3D chips should signal that the price will be too high.
heck yes! I really wanted to upgrade to a 5800X3D but didn't see a point since the AM4 platform is dead now. This will definitely encourage me to build a new PC this year assuming the chips are good. Can't wait for the review!
I still believe ibtel is better option now. Cheaper cpu, much cheaper motherboard, can be used with ddr4 ram, better performance in raw numbers
@@deivytrajan well, for low-mid range, yeah, but it looks like 7800x3d will get the gaming crown and the guy wants the best performance
@@deivytrajan wait AM5 mobos can't be used with DDR4?
If you want to have ddr4… Buy AMD AM4 platform with 5800x3d… if you want to have ddr5 platform buy AMD AM5 with 7800x3d.
Why use intel purely for ddr4 reason? Nothing wrong at intel at the current situation, but DDR4 is not the good reason to chose Intel. Productivity programs is good reason to chose Intel though!
@@bmaulanasdf No. It's a new platform.
Best news of CES for me, and available February!! So glad I decided to wait for CES before building a new PC
It looked like the 7950X3D has only one 3D cache stack on top of one of the CCDs... That could explain why the 2 CCD CPUs boost higher. The higher boosting cores are on the CCD that doesn't have the stacked cache on top. Since the 7800X3D has only one CCD, that could explain the difference in boost clocks.
Just checked the specs of the 7950X... it already has a total of 80MB cache (L2 and L3 combined) and the 7950X3D will have 144MB cache (L2, L3 and L3 3DVcache combined), so that means the 7950X3D will get 64MB additional L3 cache.
The 7700X has 40MB cache (L2 and L3 combined) and the the 7800X3D will have 104MB cache (L2, L3 and L3 3DVcache combined), that also means it will get 64MB 3dVcache. So my theory is correct.
On the 7900X3D and the 7950X3D only one CCD will have the stacked cache and the other one won't. The one without it, will boost as high as the non X3D Versions of the CPUs.
I just got a 13700k a month and a half ago. I’m really curious to see how these fair. I told my wife we’d build her a system if she likes gaming as she’s currently using my old one. I may give her the 13700k and go AM5 myself
You know that the x3d are soo expensive CPU.
And powerful at the same time.
But because for am5 motherboard to support until 2025 or 2027.
This is the best choice for the rest of us.
so
@@lelouchabrilvelda1794 I should’ve put price permitting. Yes I am aware of the cost premium the X3D chips fetch
Even though I knew these were coming, I still went for a 13700k last year, I wonder how big the difference will be in gaming with a 4090.
In MMOs,Simulator/Emulation type stuff it will be massive,in regular AAA gaming? Probably not even noticable.
The single threaded performance war continues....
The 7900x3d and 7950x3d probably comes with one die without the vcache resulting in higher boost.
You're correct, only one of the two CCDs has the vcache. This is confirmed by the amount of cache they stated, else they would have 192MB L3 + 1MB L2 for each core. It makes sense they made them this way.
@@uncle_bourbon it’s bad or good? Can you explain?
@@VaMpiRe-xo8er It's good, you get the best of both worlds, extra cache from one die and more clock speed from the other die. You can watch AMD talks more about it in this video ruclips.net/video/ZdO-5F86_xo/видео.html
what is the socket use?
Just a heads up, you guys labelled the names of the cpus incorrectly in the timestamp. Love the channel, keep up the great work!
The likely reason they are able to advertise the same max boost clocks for 7900x3d and 7950x3d but not 7800x3d is because the 7900/7950x3d are only using V-cache on one of the CCD's. The V-cache CCD will likely still have lower Fmax, while the non V-cache CCD will be the one that can hit the same Fmax as the non-x3d variants. So they are going for the best of both worlds, and still get to advertise the same Fmax as non-x3d. Could explain the lower TDP also.
I'm confused; do X3D CPUs contribute to X inflation, or to D inflation?
It cancels out!
I thought they would compound
X3D should be an emoji code for a NOT IN STOCK label.
What D is inflated?
D's are way more common than X's.
I've been waiting for these X3D chips. So many great choices for CPU's this cycle...Just wish the GPU's weren't all sh!t :p
and over priced asf
I know seriously though; I'm personally leaning more towards the 7900x3d or the 7950x3d Cpu. Gpu wise, they really are all extreme piles of S***. But either way I'll have to choose one sadly, so probably the 4090 "depressingly", that would be the only Gpu worth combing with a high end x3d part. It really sucks when you can't even be excited about building your first high end rig being that you actively know your being screwed over price wise and missing DP 2.1 to top it off. I just really want to build a Badass gaming rig already, I'm currently running a Asus Scar gaming laptop with a 32" 1440p monitor but I'm ready to jump to a 41.5" Asus Oled 4k monitor now. I know this laptop won't be able to handle that natively in games. Any thoughts or opinion's is appreciated.
@@elkomander3510 4090 is really for 4k gaming, 4080 is going to work well with the new x3d's also at 1440p gaming, i live in australia and the 4090 base model is 3.1k but i managed to snag a 4080 for 2.1k(still incredibly stupid pricing but what ever)im not paying an extra 1k for a 20-30% performance boost lol.
@@TheMessiah1337 Yeah that's exactly why that's the only Gpu I'm considering right now honestly. I really wanted AMD to come out with a beast of a card that would at least go blow to blow with the 4090 like last gens 6950xt pretty much tied with the 3090ti. But sadly the 7900XTX isn't close in performance to the 4090. I'm sure someone on RUclips will post a video running a 7950x3d with a 4090 to see what kind of performance uplift we're getting compared to the 7950x. Hopefully it'll at least be a 10-15% improvement in games, that would be the only way to justify spending the extra bill on it. If the uplift isn't worth it then I'll just get the 7950x. I'm wanting to build a beast of a 4k gaming rig, so I don't have to upgrade for at least 2 years till next gen Gpu's and Cpu's come out. But yeah pricing on the 4090 and 4080 is insane. I'll get it retail though, only way I'll buy it. I'm not going to support these Fu**s scalping everybody. I'll keep gaming on my laptop if I can't get one at retail pricing.
Remember when 5ghz was crazy with the FX 9590 despite it's lackluster performance? Amazing to see near 6ghz these days.
can see 6GHz already not just near ;-)
Really looking forward to your tests. I just got a water cooled 4080, but have a crap 6 core cpu, so I’m waiting for the 7900x3d to come out to upgrade
I recently started digging into this channel, and I really enjoy the methodical nature of you and your team's work.
As a hardware design engineer, I tend to be a stickler for this kind of content, but to me, this is top tier review content
You cover the important things, I almost never catch any misnomers or faking of knowledge and understanding in your videos.
Keep up the good work, and fighting the good fight!
I was hoping for a 7600X3D processor. I've been a Hexacore fan since the 1100T. Looks like a 7900X3D is going to be my next purchase. It at least is a multiple of 6.
same, it was obviously the best pick for X3D as you dont need more than 4c8t for gaming, so their 6c 12t part would be the best pick as X3d isnt that great in other things, if not making it slower like with the 5800X3d
Question…would getting the 7950x3D be too much for my 3090?
@@angelaguilera600 I dont believe so but i've not ran benchmarks or looked at bottlenecks. I'd assume the GPU is still going to be bottlenecked by the CPU.
@@angelaguilera600 depends probably. at 2k it might work out, at 4k youre going to be gpu bottlenecked. I got something weaker than a 7950x3D in gaming and im sometimes cpu bottlenecked and sometimes gpu with a much stronger gpu than the 3090. but at 2k it might work out. ( depending on how fast that cpu will exactly be.
@@XX-_-XX420 I’m just looking to play at 1440p, I really want a beast cpu for tarkov. So would that be okay? (I’m aware I probably don’t have to buy a high end cpu, but I want it haha)
That is an insane amount of cache. If the price is right, it will be a good bang for the buck.
Intel can’t compete with this for a minute. It will be anything but bang for your buck. Hope I’m wrong tho :)
$510 or more. Bet
@@iHadWaterForDinner facts
@@Dewmuss For sure, especially at first.
I really hope that single thread performance of these chips won't suffer that much. I want to have gaming performance and good emulation performance, which is really clock heavy
JUNGLE JOYRIDE INTENSIFIES
More interested in the cheaper Zen 4 parts. I got the 5800X3D because moving over to AM5 just for 7000X3D would've cost me upwards of 1k whereas this CPU only cost me 350 euro. I'll wait for Zen 5 3D V-Cache which should demolish these things easily.
Upgrading from a 5ghz 8700k chip. Was thinking of a 13600k but now I'm going to wait for 7800X3D. It'll be a pure itx gaming build so hopefully AMD can keep the temp down.
Eco mode is your friend.
What you should be concerned about is power consumption; not the temperature at which it operates.
The limited ventilation in an ITX chassis means heat is harder to dissipate.
The temperature at which a CPU or GPU runs (as long as within design tolerance) is largely irrelevant.
Been putting off a build for a good while waiting for the new x3d line up, will be looking closely at the 7900x3d but curious to see what kind of temperatures these will get compared to the X if it's any better or worse.
7040 series mobile chips are the most exciting for me. Hopefully these APUs are as efficient as they claim and even though rdna3 so far isn’t quite as many hoped it seems like the onboard graphics could play many modern games at a respectable rate. Really wish the lenovo nano came with this new chip but that doesn’t look like it will happen, rather the heavier z13 will get it. X3D also cool but I’m looking for a laptop 😂
I'm still waiting for any laptop with RDNA2 that doesn't come with a dedicated GPU. Seriously, every one of them has at least a 3050 stuffed into it and is at least $300 overpriced because of it. This completely nullifies the reason I set out to find a laptop with an AMD processor in the first place. ☹
i want a Laptop too, upgrade my 5600H sometime in the future
Gamers nexus is our consumer protection in the computer sciences .
Steve speaks and the industry listens.
Love supporting good people .
Happy new year . Hope you continue this business for many years to come .
Thank you
PLEASE benchmark TARKOV when you eventually get these CPUS, no joke Escape From Tarkov with its super demanding CPU might be the number one reason why so many people bought the 5800X3D.
I'm really curious to see real-world reviews of the X3D and non-X variants of these CPUs. I'm really happy to hear they are dialing back the past consumption. I found it very annoying to consider buying a to end product only to find the major advantage to AMD's CPUs had been thrown out. I personally find the balance of IPC to post consumption to be the major strength of AMD's products, and was concerned that I was going to have to start reevaluating my position on that.
I Would wait a few months for reviews of the 7000 and 7950X3D. To properly use these 3D processors it will need OS support somewhat like how Intel needs OS support for the Alderlake E cores.
Currently, i'm afraid Windows will just randomly pick a core to push a program to, without bothering to check if it would run better on the 3D cache chiplet, or not 3D chiplet
Like yes its cool that i get a 3D chiplet that only goes to 5Ghz, but then get a non3D chiplet that can go to 5.7Ghz on the same CPU, the problem is getting the programs to go to the chiplet that best suites its needs.
@denvera1g1 Expect some worms dealing with Windows 💀. For Microsoft, this probably would be just another opportunity to try nudging people to windows 11, by delaying a windows 10 fix, if it came to that.
considering 5800x3D still trades blows against 13900k in some games i think its safe to say it will be much better that it and even than the upcoming 13900ks
More X means more better. It's really hard to tell which is the best option since all models of CPUs only had one X.
Clearly the 7800X3D due to its base clock being 4.X, no wonder they cut the boost clock with speeds like that.
7950x3d and 7900x3d has two CCDs but only one CCD has 3d-vcache, that's why the boost freqeucy is still the same on the CCD without 3d-vcache. But 7800x3d has only one CCD, that's why its boost frequency is limited to 5 ghz.
One thing you missed Steve was the X3D ('CCD') cores do not boost, they are mixed in with standard cores to complement them which can boost, so it's a bit misleading that on there hardware spec. I believe the AMD 7000 X3D series GPUs will offer class leading gaming performance but maybe not the killer gaming performance we all hoped for.
I just bought a 13900k. Should I feel as though I made a mistake?
If you are fine with the power draw. Nope.
@@aliensounddigital8729 performance is all that matters
At least i9 13900K has 24 cores hope the Ryzen 8000 series the 8950X or 3D should have 24 or 32 cores worth upgrading in future years
The 13900k will be faster in most games and applications so you’re good.
The differences in the frequency for the 3D chips, and the fact that all 3 models are getting the same 64 MB of v-cache suggests that the v-cache is only applied to one of the two CCDs for the 7900x3d and 7950x3d. The CCD with v-cache will have a reduced boost clock like the 7800x3d while the CCD without v-cache will boost to the rated clock speed.
At least that's the only way all this information makes sense to me. Having half the cache added to each CCD and this somehow not being subject to the normally reduced clock speed certainly doesn't make sense.
That would explain why the single-CCD model has such a large boost clock penalty compared with the others. I think having half the cores be high frequency and another half be high cache would be a nightmare.
@@kotekzot Well it seems like it's aimed at balancing workloads (and cost,) so you don't load single-threaded performance in workloads where the cache isn't useful, but still have the cache for games, and you don't need more than one CCD for games. It's all going to come down to the thread scheduler though, and we may end up in the same situation as Intel where gamers decide to disable the extra cores if it's possible to.
@@nimbulan2020 Intel couldn't figure out scheduling for big.LITTLE, where the most performant type of core is known in advance, AMD trying to figure out scheduling for high cache vs high clock cores has no chance of success.
@@kotekzot Yeah it certainly could be problematic, but the performance difference between the two core types will be much smaller than P-cores vs E-cores at least. I did finally find official confirmation that this is in fact what they did over in this video: ruclips.net/video/ZdO-5F86_xo/видео.html
Very interested how the 7900X3D would perform with the Eco Mode on
Steve, I was confused about the new x-less AMD processors.
Can we have another spreadsheet of the price-to-x value of the component market again?
I'd really appreciate it.
I have seen this discussed other places, but it will be interesting to see on the higher SKU two chiplet parts if only one CCD gets the extra cache. That could explain why the 7800X3D gets a boost reduction (only one CCD) whereas the e.g. 7950X3D may have one CCD that boosts to the original value (essentially a 7950X CCD) paired with a Vcache CCD that can't boost to the original value.