111. Healing Detransition & Dissociation: Can Therapy Help? Bob Withers, Nicolas Blooms, & Layton

I’ve brought together a panel of two detransitioners and an elder therapist with many years of experience treating transition regret in psychoanalytic psychotherapy. Together, we explore the barriers to effective psychotherapy for individuals experiencing transition regret and the importance of a relational approach in therapy. But what happens when therapists fall into the trap of ego issues and countertransference? How do detransitioners navigate the shame and blame that often accompany their experiences? And what role does the mind-body connection play in healing trauma and emotional wounds? Join us as we uncover the challenges detransitioners face and the need for a holistic approach to mental health care.
Nicolas Blooms is a Detransitioner and Gender Shaman full of fruity passion to create ways for people to spark the deeper magical wisdom within their hearts to root in their inner resilience. Witness his liberating journey to self-love and remembering his Soul by soaking in his graphic novel: Trans to Detrans: A Soul Solution. It’s totally possible to heal gender dysphoria and any other mental dis-ease! He previously appeared on episode 98. Trans to Detrans: A Graphic Novel Journey from Self-Hate to Self-Compassion, with Nicolas Blooms.
Layton is a detransitioned woman, conversion therapy survivor, artist, and psychic somatic practitioner. She previously appeared on episodes 95. Transing the Gay Away? Cults, Actual Conversion Therapy, & Dissociation: part 1 with Layton, and 96. From Cult to Gender Clinic: Misdiagnosis, Detransition & Healing - Layton, part 2.
x.com/origina1ange1?s=21
psychicsomatic.com/
Bob Withers is a Jungian analyst with over 35 years’ experience as a psychotherapist. During that time he has worked with several transgender people in various stages of transition and detransition. He has written a series of articles about that work including the 2020 article ‘Transgender Medicalization’. Bob is a former senior lecturer on the University of Westminster’s master’s program, where he specialized in the history and philosophy of the mind/body relationship in medicine. He is also co-founder of The Rock Clinic, a charitable, community based psychotherapy and counseling service in Brighton England, where he lives. He previously appeared on episode 47. The Scapegoated Body: Transition Regret in Psychotherapy with Bob Withers.
All books mentioned on this podcast can be found at sometherapist.com/bookshop or by following the Amazon affiliate links below.
Trans to Detrans: A Soul Solution, by Nicolas Blooms: amzn.to/3ytLHO2
{{chapters}}00:00 Start
[00:00:49] Detransitioners in therapy.
[00:03:54] Complex psychiatric needs in counseling.
[00:07:21] Overcoming mind-body dissociation.
[00:13:30] Suicide narrative discussion.
[00:16:33] The effect of estrogen on suicide.
[00:18:20] Transitioning without therapist guidance.
[00:24:26] Mentorship in therapy relationships.
[00:28:09] Boundaries in therapy.
[00:31:40] Therapist-client relationship dynamics.
[00:35:14] Individualized approach in therapy.
[00:40:22] Challenges in mental health care.
[00:43:14] Bodily care and mental health.
[00:46:10] Trauma stored in the body.
[00:49:39] Somatic experiencing and healing.
[00:55:23] Taking healing into own hands.
[00:59:04] Detransitioning and medical issues.
[01:02:24] The needs of detransitioners.
[01:03:38] Gender dysphoria treatment controversies.
[01:09:35] Gender identity and detransitioning.
[01:13:38] Challenges in therapy dynamics.
[01:14:48] Reintegrating anger after dissociation.
[01:20:45] Hope and healing after trauma.
[01:23:04] Join my community at somekindoftherapist.locals.com.
TALK TO ME: book a call at calendly.com/sometherapist/di...
LOCALS: Ask questions of me & guests; get early access to new episodes + exclusive content. somekindoftherapist.locals.com
SUPPORT THE SHOW: subscribe, like, comment, share or donate: www.sometherapist.com/donate
DO NO HARM: donoharmmedicine.org/somether...
EIGHTSLEEP: Take $200 off Pod Pro Cover with code SOMETHERAPIST at www.eightsleep.com/
ORGANIFI: Take 20% off with code SOMETHERAPIST at organifi.com/sometherapist
Watch NO WAY BACK: The Reality of Gender-Affirming Care. Use code SOMETHERAPIST to take 20% off your order. Follow us on X @2022affirmation or Instagram at @affirmationgeneration. nowaybackfilm.com/
SHOW NOTES & transcript with help from SwellAI: www.swellai.com/?via=somether...
MUSIC: Thanks to Joey Pecoraro for our song, “Half Awake,” used with gratitude & permission. www.joeypecoraro.com/

[@lisadaluz1498]

This so beautiful!!!!

[@lisadaluz1498]

Something so needed and you don’t want to touch! Unbelievable! When will the madness stop

[@NicoleTedesco]

Since “I am” will probably always take presence among the young over “I ought to be,” I suspect this madness will never stop. We may have entered a new age with modern communication technologies in which humans will remain fundamentally changed. Hopefully, we can avoid extinguishing ourselves as we learn to grapple with the new macro-narratives that fuel our lives.

[@NicoleTedesco]

I think the suicide risk has been overblown by both critics and trans activists. Numbers aside, there are a number of possible explanations for the relative increases in post surgical suicide rates. So many hypotheses can be considered, and perhaps all play a factor. Is someone who indulges in the most invasive forms of surgery generally at increased risk for self harm? Were those extreme surgeries “hesitation wounds?” What is the rate difference between those who RUSHED to surgery versus those who took a little extra time? The fact is, we really don’t know, even about the actual suicide rates themselves, because our data quality is so low. Perhaps the very first problem we need to solve is the data problem. This will take time. Perhaps the best we can say at this point is that we really don’t know much about the correlation between suicidality and the various transgenderisms.
The health issues, on the other hand, are quite real and have been known for a very long time. Word has been among trans people for DECADES that transition will reduce their expected lifespan by about a decade. The perspective with trans people has been that the cost/benefit trade off was worth the potential lost decade. This is not dissimilar to how chronic cigarette smokers see the indulgence in their habit.
“I know these things are going to kill me, but…”
But.
I believe that in the future we will have advanced the state of the art of therapies, perhaps pairing with the use of psychedelics or whatever, to the point where anyone who wishes to avoid transition can be helped psychologically to indeed avoid the need for transition. The question will be, how many patients will opt for these therapies? Especially among the young who are foreclosing on their personal identity formation in favor of cross-sex identities, they may not care. For the young, “I am” may always take precedence over “I ought to be.” We will also need to focus on prevention of the problem. I don’t know what this future will actually look like, but it will come eventually. That day is not today, however. One of the things we need to do is de-weaponized the “conversion therapy” concept, which now means any and all attempt to alleviate gender dysphoria without full and immediate affirmation of the foreclosed cross-sex identity. Videos such as yours are a start, but we need more aggressive action.
BTW, good question raised about the hormonal effects on the male brain. We really don’t know, do we?
As for whether we should never have signed off on transition therapies at any time in the past, cut a break from past practitioners, especially before the 21st century. Things always look more obvious in retrospect. We know more about this than we ever have before. (Even if that gain is marginal, relatively speaking.) What we do next is what is important.