Non-Euclidean Retro Platformer
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- Опубликовано: 6 июн 2024
- 0:00 Getting Close
This looks like a platformer from the 80's... but there is something strange about it. A rather subtle thing. Can you see this in this video?
You may have noticed that the guy gets smaller the higher we go. Also the height of his jump appears smaller.
0:12 Climbing the Tower
Let's climb this narrow tower to see this better...
It is not really the guy getting smaller, but rather the world getting bigger! The guy is always the same size and has the same jump height. But that tower gets wider and wider.
0:40 Big Jump
OK, it seems we cannot climb this tower any higher. So let's see what happens when we jump.
What's going on?...
Well, it takes place in a world with hyperbolic geometry. The cool thing about non-Euclidean geometry is that looks quite normal on the first glance but is actually very weird (contrary to so-called non-Euclidean games which appear weird but are not really that weird).
1:06 Big Jump explained
The videos were taken in the lower half-plane model (the boundary line is one screen above the top line of the video).
But here is our big jump, shown in the Poincaré disk model. We actually fall almost strictly downwards... but then, the straight almost vertical line "misses" the ground, and we continue our fall upwards!
1:11 Base in the disk model
Here is the base of the tower in Poincaré disk model. (Some interesting moire patterns by the way.)
1:16 Our Inspiration
This visualization takes inspiration from Jet Set Willy.
Miner Willy's house in Jet Set Willy is a bit weird: 4 rooms on the top floor are as wide as 6 floors on the roof, and 9 rooms on the first floor are as wide as 3 rooms on the basement. What if we did this thing but more consistently?
No plans to continue working on this prototype at the moment, but the source code can be found in:
github.com/zenorogue/hyperrog...
(and tried in RogueViz)
This design could be good in a platformer based on exploration, for example, a metroidvania-style platformer, where we could easily reach exponential area without using any kinds of quick transport, or
in a procedurally generated platformer in the style of Terraria. People try to create a non-Euclidean minecraft-like (Ralith's Hypermine/kayturs's HyperBlock), but by the state of these
projects, it sounds it is a much more difficult project than it seems. This one should be easier. Still exponential world, larger than anything Euclidean...
Music used:
* "Lost Mountain" from the HyperRogue Soundtrack by Lincoln Domina, CC 4.0, and
* Jet Set Willy soundtrack from the PC remake of Jet Set Willy (original JSW by Matthew Smith, PC remake by Andy Noble, music by Matt Simmonds)
Map of the ZX Spectrum version of Jet Set Willy taken from: maps.speccy.cz/map.php?id=Jet...
Previously shown on Twitter: / 1467233261801951232
Have fun! 
Наука
Imagine playing hyperbolic Terraria and losing your home without a Magic Mirror or a Recall Potion. Also since space grows exponentially, and that big jump is possible, we can reach new levels of fall damage.
Now I actually want to try that lol
Would it still be finite?
@@johnathanegbert9277 Yes. There'd be a bound at the left/right, it's just that the bounds are closer together in the underworld, but farther away in the sky (exponentially so)
@@legendgames128lmao, early game transport being a tunnel at the bottom like minecraft nether walkways
@@Green_Bean_Machine The amazing thing is that would 100% make trips much faster, you'd just have to choose the right places to get off of.
Sad to hear that there are no plans to continue it. But maybe someone else will pick it up. Thanks for sharing!
I was not expecting a retro cover of If I Were a Rich Man, but ok.
I like the HyperRogue music in each video.
Interesting use of horocycles! How does gravity work in this game? I.e. what does the gravity field or the gravitational potential field look like?
The gravitational acceleration is the same everywhere, so the potential is proportional to the height above the ground.
(I think it does not make much physical sense -- Gauss's law suggests that the gravity should become exponentially weaker and weaker as you go higher.)
if u can just arbitrarily set which way gravity points at each place, rlly expands possibility space. imagine just perfectly euclidean-looking game, but traveling horizontally causes vertical upward acceleration. once u move horizontally fast enough for that to cancel out with gravity, would feel like gliding (could just distort everything to make parabola drawn by weightless or infinitely fast object horizontal, then skew the screen as player character walks around for convenient viewing)
to prevent exploit, there are no diagonal slopes to bounce off of, so absurd vertical velocity can't get converted to horizontal. maybe add a bit of air resistance for using horizontal vel in that way (to generate lift) to prevent obvious physics exploits (long stretch analogy to that other demo clustering all curvature onto points or within solid pillars u can't see through, and leaving open air spaces euclidean, so everything looks normal with weirdness hidden. u might find pillar that's more than 360deg to walk around, but just from looking at individual frames of walkaround vid without memorizing path, looks normal (besides in that pentagon example where it's more obvious that tiling would run into problems out of sight)
oops I went off topic. that's not even talking about grav anymore, but weird thing
Horocircles is better?
@@lukatolstov5598 Could you clarify your question? Are horocycles better than what (what are you comparing horocycles with)? And in what aspect are you wondering if they are better (in what way would they be better)?
"This looks like a platformer from the 80's"
My initial reaction to this statement was: No it doesn't. It looks more like an unfinished project with placeholder graphics. Even 80s platformers typically had animations.
I would've used Jet Set Willy as an example, because that's what the player character's hat made me think of, but after seeing the rest of the video, I changed my mind. :p
Yeah, it also fails the parallel postulate, another indicator it is not from the 80s. smh
@@christopherking6129 I think the part where we change the parallel postulate would be doable in the 80s (in some very primitive way, but still).
I accidentally discovered something like this when playing with Hypermine! This game could be configured to not use air resistance in its physics. If the player will jump from a tower or a hill too tall while air resistance is disabled - while falling the player may miss the ground and start to perpetually fly in some sort of an orbit "around" the ground, despite the fact that this ground is actually flat! Well, mostly flat - it has hills and stuff. Weirdly, when left flying this way, the player will slowly raise both its "apoapsis" and its "periapsis" if these words are even suitable here, I guess they raise because of slight imperfections of gravity calculations that result in slow accumulation of speed by the player
This looks familiar. Wasn’t this originally a twitter thread?
Yes, this is mentioned in the description.
Why is there a synthesizer version of לו הייתי רוטשילד at the end?!
To explain for those not familiar: that says "Lu Hayiti Rothschild" (literally "If I were a Rothschild"), the Hebrew version of the song "If I Were a Rich Man" from Fiddler on the Roof.
(The Yiddish version would be "Ven ikh bin a Rothschild", which you can listen to here: ruclips.net/video/8nPdrrDJFvg/видео.html I didn't realize there was a Hebrew version as well.)
(EDIT: Found a Hebrew version! ruclips.net/video/Us2mxGqKZSE/видео.html)
Jet Set Willy is a sequel of Manic Miner where Miner Willy became a rich man and bought a mansion. I suppose the devs thought that this song fit the theme well.
(Manic Miner had Grieg's "In The Hall of the Mountain King", apparently it was the first game on ZX Spectrum with in-game music, they believed it was impossible to run a game and play music at the same time)
I see the English lyrics of "If I Were a Rich Man" contain "There would be one long staircase just going up And one even *longer* coming down", which somehow sounds appropriate too...
@@ZenoRogue And one going nowhere, just for show!
yidle-diddle-didle-didle man
not gonna bother looking thru thread linked in description. is there inb4 houses in pokemon games bigger on inside, but with only the one door in front, can't rlly make that type of non-euclidean demo from it
1:16 - Anyone Know what's this Music? (Hint in the Desc)
So as you go up, the space around you seems to stretch out...
Is this the binary tiling?
Jet Set Willy. I knew it!
What was the connection to Jer Set Willy?
Have you read the description? The cionnection is explained there.
@@ZenoRogue I'm mostly using the mobile app and the design doesn't promote the description but I'll definitely look into it
@@ZenoRogue mapping such games as a teenager back in the 80s was challenging
what's the game?
This is just a prototype that can be tried in RogueViz (see the description) but does not have much content, maybe somebody could turn it into an actual game. (Unless you mean the actual game shown at 1:16 -- this is Jet Set Willy.)
This is boring
You're boring.