I have an AR in 450 bushmaster and the recoil was brutal. I replaced the birdcage flash hider with a tanker style muzzle brake and it tamed it considerably! Love that 450!
True but if you handload I just pass my .357's through a $16 Lee Bullet Size Die, squeeze it down .002" and load up those 158gr flat points. Out of my 18" barrel it puts a hurtin' on deer within range and I resize my own cast bullets down to .356 and use them, super cheap practice loads with charges of Titegroup, the primer is the most expansive part.
I bought a moss berg patriot 450 bushmaster and ordered a muzzle break from wendam weponary with the correct tread size.... no recoil supper accurate and compact. I have shot several deer this year and the track job is slim. I love it
Thanks for the comparison between these two cali. I bought a 450 BM AR15 platform and been hunting with it for couple years now in MI. Man... it is an amazing caliber rifle. I've shot numerous deer with it from around 50-100 plus yards and it dropped many of them on the spot and some may have ran no less than 50 yards. Most of the deer that I gutted/processed were totally destroyed. The recoil is manageable, and I'm a petite guy... 5'4" and I have no issues shooting it. I'm thinking about getting a 350 Legend also... but I will get the 450 over the 350 any day. Thanks!
Harvested a buck a few weeks back with my 450 ar 91 yards with 250 grain Hornady Black. First time taking an animal with this cartridge. Let me tell you....it was like hitting them with a deep freezer. Bullet entered the left shoulder, came out the right rib, and vaporized everything in between. Deer ran about 30 yards. I lost the meat on the left shoulder. Couldn't make sense of what was the heart and what was the lungs...it poured out like chewed jello.
That's awesome! I just got into 450bm, what zero did you use? If possible can you tell me point of impact at 25 yards?? Reason being because I dont have a further distance to zero atm...... any info would be greatly appreciated, god bless from ole Carolina.
@@tylertapp131 I sighted mine in right at 100 yards. At a 100 yard zero it's...1.5" low at the muzzle, .3" low at 25yd, .3" high at 50yd, .5" high at 75, zero at 100yd, 2.9" low at 150yd, 9" low at 200yd, 18.8" low at 250yd and 33.3" low at 300. This is straight from Hornady's website. Little overkill on what you were asking but I thought it would give you an idea of your drops if you catch yourself having to take a longer shot. So roughly 3/8th of an inch low at 25 yards should put you where you want at 100. Hope this helps and good luck this season.
@@BuddyLe38386 no not at all I've been askin around around for awhile this really helps alot! Thank you so much for all the info god bless from ole Carolina and good luck to you too!
I have taken a lot of deer and hogs with the 450 BM at ranges from < 50 yards to 235 yards. I shoot it from an AR with a 16" barrel. It shoots sub-MOA groups and has worked flawlessly to drop everything in it's path with a single shot . I have tamed the "substantial" recoil with the correct spring / buffer / recoil pad / muzzle brake and have no issue firing a "substantial" number of rounds in an afternoon at the range. So, I believe it comes down to what is the intended purpose of the weapon??? If your intent is taking game effectively and humanely from close in out to ranges in excess of 200 yards, choose the 450. If you are new to shooting, if you are recoil sensitive, or if you are looking for a weapon you can take to the range to shoot 100's of rounds per visit, choose the 350.
"Substantiality" nice review on both cartridge's, well done on the drinking game. Have now watched the video 7 times to get hammered lol. Had to get you to a nice round number of 100 subs :).
I have only the Ruger American bolt action in 350 Legend, and it has been a superbly accurate and utterly soft kicking rifle. Both are important for me as an old man, and the price that I paid has been very affordable for someone like me. My daughter is also small and she is also very comfortable with it. Not sure how hard the 450 Bushmaster would shoot, but I normally hunt with a 30-06. My guess is the two would be similar in recoil? I just think, though, as I get older, the 350 will be my favorite hunting rifle for pigs in Southern Texas.
I bought the 18" Ruger American in .450BM and topped it with a hand-lapped Vortex 4-12x44. 100 yard zero with Hornady Black shoots 1-1.5" and cloverleafs the bull at 50. Rings 12" steel at 300 yards all day but its artillery at that point. Devastating on Ohio whitetails. Even used it to tag the groundhog that's been tearing up my yard for years (bring a garden hose). Easy to reload, as it headspaces off the case mouth. Hornady 250 gr FTX pills over a small rifle primer with 38gr of Lil Gun should almost replicate the factory load. Chuck Hawks has some great info for reloading.
Well -- i built a 20in 350 upper for a150 -200 yd deeer&hog rifle. Couldnt. Be happier , accurate & hits a TON ! Low recoil, fast follow up ( havent needed a second shot !) Love , love , love it. Ammo cheap, frome 12 ---22 a box.
I have a ruger American rancher 450 bushmaster I replaced the stock with a Boyd's thumb hole stock it took all the kick out of it I shoot the hornady black ammunition the scope I use is radicalized just for this gun and load what a game changer.in a state that was shotgun only now we can use a straight wall cartridge and I love this 450 compared to the shoulder breaking 12 gauge I have used since I was a kid.
Less recoil because of less power. In shooting the 450 opens up and despite its massive power advantage it actually is much better at dumping its power vs the 350. And for deer hunting 300 yards is more than most people will shoot. 450 drops more but is subsequently much better in cross winds. Especially since most will be coming from shotguns that had 1/2 that range. I found a good brakes for adjusted gas block make for massive reduction in recoil. Also run the rifle length h4 buffer and flat wire recoil spring it’s night and day recoil difference
It just so happens that I was scrolling down through RUclips and found this video and it's probably a good thing because it wasn't the other day I was in my local gun shop looking at a straight wall cartridge rifle and could not make up my mind. I am very much hoping the 450 Bushmaster is exactly what I'm looking for at least in a bolt-action.
My nephew shot his first deer last Saturday. At 75yds the 350l with the 150gr win . Went right behind the shoulder opend up took out the back of the heart and blood shot the lungs. The expanded bullet was lodged in the off side rib. The deer took maybe 20 steps.
The drop at range between the 450 and 350 is small enough to not matter (about 1.5" at 200 yards) the power at extended ranges however does matter. That 350 might shoot a tiny bit flatter at 300 yards but it doesn't have enough energy to ethically use on deer size game where the 450 does. And btw, light things dropping less isn't how gravity works. 9.8 m/s/s.
I shot 2 doe about 100 yds with the Ruger Gone Wild 350 Legend and dropped them where they stood... I will be putting a youth stock on this rifle for my 8 year old Granddaughter for next year... Love this caliber!!!
I smoked my second whitetail last night with the 350 legend. Dropped where she was standing 100yds out. 350 legend is great for recoil sensitive shooters and it does the job. The projectile drops like a rock after 300yds though
I have a Ruger American in 450 for hunting very manageable to shoot comes with a muzzle brake will beat the 350 any way you want to cut it even long range think this gentleman needs to take another look at that unless he just shoos paper bullet wait has nothing to do with rate of drop Newton's law of gravity only speed
Go 450.... ballistics on it are far superior when put in a light bolt action and the fact that it hits like a brick.... well I shot 2 deer with it this year (one over 150 yards) and the farthest tracking job as 45 yards.... turned chest into mush on both, recoil was minimal and I was using a 16.25” barrel with no break on a plastic stock... sight it in at 150 yards and it’s a within 8” “kill zone” out to 200 yards +.... and look at federal 300 grain blue box and Hornady 250 grain for deer, if you know someone that will reload them you can get 200 grain reloads for practice and predators....
I to have a Ruger American in 450 with the right scope it's a 300 yard gun all day long and I believe the range is longer than the 350 that 250 grain bullet is going to store more energy the 50 fps advantage of the 350 will disappear fast
I appreciate your analysis of these two rounds! I have been looking for something more comfortable for my kids to shoot. I would like to clarify the following however. On earth, two objects of different masses fall at the same rate. When you drop two objects on earth, they do fall together, but that doesn't mean that they both exert the same force. All things equal, horizontal firing of each round yields the same dropping time.
Your analogy is leaving out the difference is speed. While both objects drop the same when dropped together. The faster flying bullet drops less at a given range because gravity has less time to work on the faster bullet.
I think what ya'll are talking about with two objects falling has to do with is called terminal velocity and the 350 could be traveling faster than the 450 but still not having enough speed for its size . By the statistics ( coming strictly from other comments ) of the 350 dropping sooner than the 450 could be these bullets just have different power to weight ratios and maybe that could be the shells aren't of the same length and/or the projectile not being made from the same metal and/or maybe not having the same geometry . In other words the 350 isn't just scaled down from the 450 thus the 350 isn't just making a smaller hole it also lacks in range and penetration . So to me the 350 sounds underpowered for its size and/or the 450 is overpowered for its size compared to the 350 . Actually the 350 sounds like it may have same power as a 410 slug but for me the plus being the 350 is FMJ'd versus 410 slugs not being jacketed , if that's important . But the next video I'll try to get a penetration test video and maybe jacketed vs non jacketed bullets . I sure hope all this made sense cause I definitely did get a little confused at times writing this .
You forgot to mention magazine capacity. When hog hunting it’s nice to have the 20 rounds available in the 350 legend. I use the Winchester 180gr power point.
ravissary79 I actually tried everything. Different buffers, springs, bcg, magazines, etc. I ended up changing barrels to the faxon 350 legend barrel. Problem was solved. No more issues of any kind. The chamber on the faxon is completely different than any other barrel. The feed ramp is completely scalloped out. There is no center lug like in the m4 ramp. It also appears to have a shallower angle
Probably has already been mentioned, he called the 450 Bushmaster, 450 Legend, at least twice so far, I'm just over 9 minutes in. When both calibers are x50 with that common 5 0 as the last two digits, it can cause confusion. And as I have seen mentioned, it is NOT a .357 .358 dia. bullet, it is .355 which is possibly the only drawback to the 350 Legend cartridge.
I don’t know anything about the 450 , other than what I’ve read. But would it be a fair assumption to say it sounds like a 45-70 with lighter end bullets, in an AR platform?
I hunt with a Remington 700 mag but looking for somthing for witching a hundred yards after shooting 2 deer at 30 yards or less from the ground I need a short range rifle with a red dot or 2X optic. Thanks for the info.
I have both, the 350 loses A LOT of energy past 150...so saying it has way better range....meh, I don’t think I would hunt with it at longer ranges, just because the bullet has higher ballistic coefficient...it is very a anemic past 150 in my opinion. I would not even think twice about shooting a deer at 200 with my 450....I will take my 450 all day, every day over my 350....just my experience in shooting both a lot. The ONLY advantage the 350 has, is the price of ammo....or if you have a recoil sensitive shooter, but I switched from a Remington 1100 12ga, to the Savage 110 Scout 450, and the 450 recoil is way easier in my opinion....put a Leupold VX•R Scout 1.5-5x33 in some Seekins Precision rings, and it is one of my all time favorite rifles. Shot a 290#(field dressed) buck here in Ohio last year, it didn’t go 40 yards. 130 yard shot. I have 2 buddies who have hit deer solid, on video with a 350 legend and didn’t find them...not saying that will be the usual case, but I am grabbing my 450 10 out of 10 times. Just my experience, your mileage may vary. But I have shot both quite a bit, and I think the 450 is a better round FOR ME....accuracy is really impressive in both, a tad better out of my 450 but it is a bolt gun and my 350 is an AR, so you can’t really make a fair comparison there, in my opinion. I think the same guns, in both calibers, would be very close.
Exactly! And I wouldn’t hesitate to shoot elk or moose, many of which are harvested with .25-.28 caliber, again, within the cartridges range! Under 100 yards, I wouldn’t hesitate
@@slelliott14 even 150 yards to 200 max. The energy would work on a Elk with the correct bullet. I have the 450 in a AR. But...the bolt guns are far superior.
Got the 350 for my kids to shoot and they both knocked down deer at 150yds, so I decided to take it out to the farm and plug a few doe (1 was at 170yds, the other at 225yds) both didn’t go 40yds and both bullets were pass throughs! I agree with you that the 450 is superior in energy out passed 250yds but the 350 legend will do the job in my eyes...happy hunting
Good stuff man. I just got into 450bm and am curious what zero do you use? I wanna use it for deer hunting, also if you know, could you tell me whats your point of impact at 25 yards? Reason being...... I dont have a better spot for now to zero.... so if I could get a good zero at 25 I would roughly be good out at distance... any info would be greatly appreciated, god bless from ole Carolina.
Really curious to see what these new 360 buckhammer and 400 rounds do. They are brand new from remington. But again you will have harder time finding the ammo or even a gun chambered in it for the meantime
I'm thinking he most have the two switched. this is personally the first video of someone saying the legend is a 300 yard deer gun. I shot 2 deer last season with my legend. one about 75 yards , it ran about 100 yards and when i field dressed it i found the bullet in her and the bullet did not expand. the 2nd deer was 125 yards and i never found him. I have killed 7 deer with my 450 bm. the furthest was almost 200 yards none of them ran more then 50 yards. i would not have a problem shooting out to 250 yards with my 450 bm
@@n8n876 call bullshit if you want, i really don't give a shit, i was using the win 150gr xp the one that did not exit hit the shoulder. the one that i lost, i'm not 100% sure of the shot placement, and im not the only one that has said the same thing. every deer i have shot in the shoulder with the 450bm dropped on the spot, how many deer have you shot with the 350 legend ? you going to also call bullshit on the multiple videos, in fact most videos and on here that say the 350 legend is a 200 yard gun, max 250 yards. you need to have a 20inch or a 22inch barrel to get the most efficiency. sure you can shoot at longer ranges, but you can also kill a deer at 300 yards with a 22lr, that doesn't mean you should and its not ethical. ..
I have a 18" 350 L in a AR platform from BCA It shoots amazing groups . My Bolt gun is a Ruger American with a 16" barrel the groups are not as tight. You think that 2" wouldn't make a difference. But It does.
The 350 legand is the same ballistically as the 30-30 win. That makes it a supurb 200 yard deer round -- given the number of deer killed by the old war horse.
You have a target round for the 350 and a hunting round for the 450. Yes, you did point this out. I do however wish would would have used comparable rounds for each. My $.02 Still, a good video. I will give you the "thumbs up."
That Hornady round has a big problem with bullet set back and jumping the factory crimp I like the Winchester factory loads better they seem to pay better attention
The 350 legend may have less drop at longer ranges, but also has significantly less power.... i wouldn’t shoot the 350 on game out to 250yds.... that would be a mistake....150yds and closer for the 350L
@@TheWarriorsMind Speaking or range. I wonder why they never added a belt on the 350. A belt can allow for more powder without the risk of the case rupturing. More powder equals more power and range. Think 38 special vs 357 magnum I think it could also give it enough of curvature when stacked together to fit in a standard ar mag and it provides more securing anchoring for the cartridge than the mouth.
I have both, and I would not even think about shooting a deer with a 350 past 150....I wouldn’t even think twice about shooting a deer at 200 with my 450. I have two buddies who have lost deer with good hits, with a 350, both on video(not saying this will happen often, but I have seen the videos of both hits, and helped track one of them).The 350 is just anemic past 150...I have shot and tested both a lot, and the 450 craps on the 350....I will not even take my 350 for deer, but probably would if I didn’t have my 450....but probably wouldn’t shoot anything past 100 yards. These deer in Ohio are pretty big, and they still don’t go anywhere with the 450. I have personally seen them take the 350 and where ever they died....they fed coyotes and not my buddies....I don’t like to feed coyotes.
What is the longest shot you've taken with your 450 bushmaster? I have a friend that dropped a doe at 276ish. yards with Hornady ammo. I handload 225gr. & 250gr. FTX bullets and I get two inch groups at two hundred yards with my ar-15 build. I have a friend that handloads 350 legend and with Hornady 165gr. FTX and 170gr. soft points the best he can do is 4-4 1/2in. with a Savage bolt gun. From my experience with both is they are equal at 100yds. Past a 100yds. the 450 is much more accurate.
The 350 is often loaded with rounds designed for 357 velocities.... the bushmaster is suited for projectiles rated for 460 smith and Wesson.... better more consistent bonding of jackets and more surface area for rifling means better terminal performance down range.
@@robgraham7238: except the 165 FTX and 170 interlock are rifle rated bullets. If you use 38 and 357 pistol bullets they will for sure not shoot very well. I think Winchester should have built the 350 legend around a 9mm 1/10 twist spec barrels.
If it's less than a 12 gauge with a turkey load, slug, or buckshot, I dont even consider it "kick". My choice for the last few decades has been the .30-06. 2800 lb/ft of energy and the deer always drop like a sack of potatoes. Should I even consider a .450 or .350? Seems like the only reason would be so I can use an AR. I have no cartridge shape restrictions where I am from.
I don't have any experience with a 350 but my 450 had issues feeding, my issue ended up being more pronounced with a full mag and the cartridges were sitting a little higher in the magazine than they should, when the rifle cycled it would stovepipe, I ended up bending lips down a little and slicked them up with an Emery board, this forced the cartridges sit flatter in the magazine I think this allowed more clearance for my spent round to eject and the gun is reliable now, pay attention to the front of the lips mine allowed the cartridge to be kinda nose up now that it's tweaked they sit pretty flat, hope this helps and good luck
I'd go with the 450 recoil doesn't bother me and the energy is more important than range. Where I hunt we don't get many shots over 200 yards and most are under 100 yards so longer range isn't something I worry about. Now if I had a younger child sure the 350 is a much better choice. In fact I have a friend and he has his son that is 7 and doing very well with the 350. Finding either of this is tough and ammo is even harder to find ordering it is about the only way to get it and that takes a few weeks according to my friend. I'm not sure who he.goes thru to buy the ammo but all are local places have zero 350 or 450.
First off the 450 is equivalent to a 444 Marlin in performance. Common sense tells us it’s a hell of a critter getter, and can be used on Elk size animals. The 350 is close to the 35 Remington in performance and the 35R, is on hell of a whitetail round! IMHO the 35R is very, under used and under rated, and is much better on whitetail size critters the is the 30-30! So both the 350 and the 450 are a very big upgrade in a AR platform, in a hunting rifle. So it comes down to animals hunted and recoil as the deciding factors. Like you said, the 450 can punish you with recoil whereas the 350 is absolutely a sweetheart in recoil, up to Elk size critters, it’s the 450 and it’s recoil, or with smaller then Elk size critters it’s the 350 and it’s virtually no recoil, personally I would hunt Elk with the 350, if shot yardage is keep 100 yards and closer, it should have no issue with a clean kill, if the shooter does his or her part. Many lesser Cartridges have taking Elk reliably, the 35 Remington has taking it’s fair share of Elk, so has the 30-30, as the 357Mag and 44Mag! The 350 has a lot to offer, I’m glad Winchester came out with it!
I have 350 mags and 450 mags. The 450 has the same issue as the 7.62x39 bolts, they are weaker because they are thinner. But if you just hunt with it once a year and buy a good quality bolt your good to go.
Shoot it in the Ruger Ranch it ain’t nothing out of a AR platform. But I’m not recoil sensitive either though but it does have a punch. When your looking at 26-2800 lb/ft of muzzle energy yes thats going to punch you.
I have owned several different calibers ,I don't think I have had one I didn't like ,I just try to let it do what it was intended ,I love the 450 in the woods where you get lots of brush ,and I love the 350 in a more clear and open spots I hunt in the edge of the woods thanks for posting the video ,keep em coming
450 is more tailored to deer hunting.... when sighted in at 150 yards it’s still within the magic 8” out to 200 yards with my 300 grain jhp... has enough energy to dump deer out to 280 yards... as a reloader it’s better by far easier to reload 350 is a pain.... also 450 is a good single shot cartridge as it has more frontal area, better terminal ballistics and I find its energy more inline with a LIGHT 308 than a 30-06.... oh and btw loaded to max pressures the 450 actually has FAR better ballistic numbers out to 300+ yards.....
If you live in a restrictive state either plus a few others like 44 Mag, 444, 38-55, 45/70 work fine. If not restricted use whatever. If you just want to use an AR , I’d chose the Grendel or go AR 10.
Some of the states have restrictions that do not allow handgun cartridges. Also some that allow straight wall cartridges have min./max. length restrictions. Crazy as all of that is.
Yes, but you have to modify it to remove the two ribs running down the sides near the front of the magazine (these ribs keep 5.56 ammo from moving side to side since they are bottleneck cartridges). There are videos here on YT showing how to mod p-mags. Obviously, if you want metal mags, you should get 350 Legend specific mags as you can't readily remove the ribs. There are a few makers of the metal variety (CMMG and dura-mag come to mind). I have CMMG 20-round metals for my 350L, and also a 30 round p-mag (5.56) that I haven't modded yet. P-mags are cheap enough I don't mind modding them to see if it'll work.
Just an FYI, standard AR 5.56 mags do NOT work with 350 legend. They have a rail/indentation towards the front on both sides to keep the necked down ammunition from moving around too much. These indentations cause the front of 350 rounds to bunch up in the magazine. You have to buy specific magazines for 350 legend unless you only want to load 1 or at most 2 rounds into a standard AR mag.
I agree about the 450 bushmaster recoil in an ar, but I've heard lots of people who use bolt action 450 bushmaster rifles say it kicks like a pussy cat. I highly suspect the felt recoil in ar rifles is due to the gas system and buffer, try a tunable gas block and see if you notice a difference.
@@percefuloutdoors excessive gas pressure. I had a 450 upper that wouldn't cycle, meaning not semi auto and it felt like a 20 gauge or 762x39. My 450 upper that does cycle feels very close to 300 win mag.
I am a fan of thr 450 .. in real world scenarios, it kicks the 350 ass ..450 is easy to reload.. use 45 acp bullets and h110 or little gun... For bolt guns, you can load it the same as the 460 ... Fine round
I'll stick with my 444 marlin with 265 grain Hornady superformance looks like a bomb went off in the chest cavity and I've not have one deer run off yet 👍
The recoil is not less or equal to a 5.56 lol it is still much more. However it is less than a .450 bushmaster for sure. The .350 legend has similar recoil impulse to a 6.5 creedmoor. It's a much heavier projectile still moving rather quick.
@@snbsociety7442 with a 7 lb rifle the .223 remmington produces about 3.5 ft lb of recoil energy at about 6 fps. .350 legend is about 8.5 ft lb of recoil energy at about 9 fps. I'm just saying that the recoil of the 350 legend is considerably more stout than a .223, it's not even close. Yes a muzzle brake can mitigate some of that.
Is shot a doe this year with 150 grain, at 220 yds, and absolutely destroyed both lungs. Another guy I know, dropped a buck in it's tracks at 250. Don't underestimate the 350 legend.
Between me my dad and my daughter we have killed 8 deer in the last 2 years with the 450 3 of witch was over 200 yards and the devistation it does to a whitetail is remarkable and the accuracy is unbelievable I put a doe down at 237 yards put it on my 250 position on my scope and drilled her perfect dropped in her tracks
I agree, but if you want a 450 with less recoil try a mossburg /patriot model. For some reason the recoil is half of the ruger / rancher or the American rifle. 2 good friend's bought the patriot and said why is everybody complaining. It's true. I own the ruger 350 w/the 24 inch barrel. And I've shot the 450 patriot. It's down right weird. Try it.
the .450 in AR platform, is the perfect single caliber for home defense and hunting whitetail out to 300 yrds.. Have a red dot reflex scope for home defense and when someone comes through the door that isnt supposed to, limbs are being taken off with precision.. Drop deer out to 300 yds like a a laser guided bomb.. yeah if your buying ammo its expensive, but then if you want to plink get a .223 or a .22 in AR and shoot all day long.. If you reload .450 you can shoot pretty cheap..
Theoretically, you can reload 45 cal. pistol bullets into a Bushmaster case, but not always! Most 45 cal. pistol bullets have a max velocity of around 1200 fps. You'd have to be very careful about selecting the proper components and powder when doing that. Personally, I'm not aware of any published load data that does this. I'm not saying it doesn't exist.... I just have seen anything and not quite sure why you'd want to?
I have asked some 454 bullets same diameter 452 diameter the revolver bullets are thinner jacket then the rifle jackets I have been told the jackets can separate and can get stuck in your Barrel and then your next shot you might get lucky and blow it out the barrel or you might get unlucky and blow up the gun so I would recommend against it
Wow, where do I start. I build AR's and both rounds are fine for Whitetails. In fact, I bought a Ruger American in 35 Legend for my grandson to hunt with and it will be passed down to all the grandkids to use out to 150 yards, it loses a lot after that. I have built more than a few 450's and they recoil like a 30/06, in other words, not that bad. A few years ago I bought a Ruger American in 450 and found once your away from the limitations of the AR platform you can really step up the performance of the 450. Ever hear of a 450 Raptor ? It's a Bushy just .100" longer, basically a 460 S&W with a .308 rim. I use heavy loads of Ramshot Enforcer to push the Hornady 225 FTX to 2600fps. out of that Ruger bolt gun. Talk about substantial. No pressure signs and shoots real nice out to 250 yards and clover leafs 5 rounds at 100. No more than 6" drop at 200. Never had an animal take more than 3 steps after being hit. Break the kids in with the 350, once ready put the 450 in their hands as long as they aren't recoil shy.
@@dittman2564 Yes, I guess you missed the decimal point. The case of the 460 S&W is .100" longer than a 450 Bushmaster. 1 tenth of an inch not 10 thousandths (.010") of an inch. That's basically a case trim range.
The 350 looks like a great deer cartridge for kids, women, and smaller fellas, but I don't really agree with the 450 having a "substantial" kick... For those of us who hunt waterfowl with a 12 ga. 3" on the regular, a 450 seemed pretty mild to me. I'm strictly speaking in regards to a hunting application. I guess a few hundred rounds through an AR platform would be a different story. When shot through a Ruger American Ranch rifle, it was like shooting a 20 ga. Nice video, thanks for sharing...
Taylor KO Factor places far too much emphasis on bore diameter and not enough on energy. As one example, the TKOF for the load in the video is quoted at 35. The TKOF for a 338 Win Mag, a very highly recommended cartridge among professional grizzly and brown bear guides. You know, when their life is on the line. Personally, I just don’t see straight wall cartridges being a thing except where the game law requires. I’m in OH. Gotta shoot one unless you want I be beat up by and put up the other shortcomings of, a slug gun.
I think I'm still leaning towards 450. 357 ammo is still hard to get and far more expensive than 45acp. And I carry a 45acp. So if I got into reloading I'd be stocking up on 45 bullets anyway. Makes more sense in my situation. As for recoil, I really don't care about that. As for the bcg. If I'm buying a whole upper I'll just get a 450 since it comes with a bolt anyway. And I already have a standard bcg when I bought my 300 blackout upper which I tore apart and swapped to 22lr because 300 blk was getting ridiculous to find and too expensive for punching paper.
@@ronniejohnson3781 my 450 is an AR so the recoil is probably less than a bolt action. I hunt with a savage bolt action 20 gauge and and the 20 seems it kick a little more to me. Hornady and Remington actually load the same exact bullet in the 450 and the sabot slugs for the 20 gauge.
@@ronniejohnson3781 yea Remington loads their 260 grain accutip bullet for the 450, which is the bullet I use in my 20 gauge thats how I realized that they're the same.
Disagree on part of the statement in video. Not sure about ar-15s etc..., shot them before but it is not much my thing. But the recoil on the 450 BM is not really bad. It is not anymore recoil then a 20 Gauge shotgun, and most people I know use a 12 gauge for birds etc.... In fact I think 450 BM has less recoil then a 20 gauge shotgun. And do think most teenage kids and most old men and most women can handle the recoil on the 450 BM. The 450 BM is not the type of caliber that most people will not shoot all day long like a 22 LR. But did not yet shoot the 350 Win Legend. But hear people speak highly of the 350 Legend. But do have the 444 Marlin and the 45-70 in the single shot. And I would say the recoil on those are very high and they will be arm bruisers until you get use to shoot something like that. But for hunting I bet most people will not even feel the recoil when they are hunting and they shoot some kind of an animal, from on any caliber. Then according to the book, Cartridges Of The World, they said the 450 BM is also very good caliber for moose and elk hunting less then 250 yards.
I love my .444 single shot H&R wouldn't use anything else 2" high at 100 yards dead on at 200 more velocity than any of the other ones and is still deadly at 350 yards +
@@williamhochstetler13 Agree, its 1 of the best calibers to hunt with for anything under 200 yards. Maybe I am not the best shot with the 450 BM. But, speaking with my experience I do think the 444 Marlin is more accurate then the 450 BM. But much more recoil.
Probably the most superior of the straight wall rifles is the 444 marlin. Its just not as common as these 2 listed so less people get it. But trust me, when you see what it does to a deer you will have your mind blown. It has more energy at 150-200 ysrds than a 44 magnum has at the muzzle! But its not practical for most because ammo is harder to find!
That 350 ammo you're shooting is Target ammo which is about $18 a box. The same exact ammo for hunting is $33 a box and the box is grey. Unless you're hunting with Target rounds which doesn't give you the same expansion and won't give you the same knock down energy you can't compare it against a 450 hunting round
I agree, what possesses anyone to compare two totally different rounds and say that one is better than the other? I think some people just like to hear themselves talk. Each caliber has a purpose. Each is good for what they were designed for. The guy totally misses the idea that children or females may like less recoil with the .350. but that some may not mind the .450.
This video was substantially better than other comparison videos. LOL.
I have an AR in 450 bushmaster and the recoil was brutal. I replaced the birdcage flash hider with a tanker style muzzle brake and it tamed it considerably! Love that 450!
The bore size of the 350 legend is actually .355" and is a 9mm bullet.
Something it was criticized for at its release.
True but if you handload I just pass my .357's through a $16 Lee Bullet Size Die, squeeze it down .002" and load up those 158gr flat points. Out of my 18" barrel it puts a hurtin' on deer within range and I resize my own cast bullets down to .356 and use them, super cheap practice loads with charges of Titegroup, the primer is the most expansive part.
We shoot .357 bullets all the time in .350 legend.
the 350 legend should be called 9mm long rifle
@@ConfucianScholar Or the 357 Extra Maximum.
@@ConfucianScholar the 350 is the same ballistically as the 30-30 win. Thats all that one needs to know.
I bought a moss berg patriot 450 bushmaster and ordered a muzzle break from wendam weponary with the correct tread size.... no recoil supper accurate and compact. I have shot several deer this year and the track job is slim. I love it
Thanks for the comparison between these two cali. I bought a 450 BM AR15 platform and been hunting with it for couple years now in MI. Man... it is an amazing caliber rifle. I've shot numerous deer with it from around 50-100 plus yards and it dropped many of them on the spot and some may have ran no less than 50 yards. Most of the deer that I gutted/processed were totally destroyed. The recoil is manageable, and I'm a petite guy... 5'4" and I have no issues shooting it. I'm thinking about getting a 350 Legend also... but I will get the 450 over the 350 any day. Thanks!
Thanks 👍
Harvested a buck a few weeks back with my 450 ar 91 yards with 250 grain Hornady Black. First time taking an animal with this cartridge. Let me tell you....it was like hitting them with a deep freezer. Bullet entered the left shoulder, came out the right rib, and vaporized everything in between. Deer ran about 30 yards. I lost the meat on the left shoulder. Couldn't make sense of what was the heart and what was the lungs...it poured out like chewed jello.
LOL
That's awesome! I just got into 450bm, what zero did you use? If possible can you tell me point of impact at 25 yards?? Reason being because I dont have a further distance to zero atm...... any info would be greatly appreciated, god bless from ole Carolina.
@@tylertapp131 I sighted mine in right at 100 yards. At a 100 yard zero it's...1.5" low at the muzzle, .3" low at 25yd, .3" high at 50yd, .5" high at 75, zero at 100yd, 2.9" low at 150yd, 9" low at 200yd, 18.8" low at 250yd and 33.3" low at 300. This is straight from Hornady's website. Little overkill on what you were asking but I thought it would give you an idea of your drops if you catch yourself having to take a longer shot. So roughly 3/8th of an inch low at 25 yards should put you where you want at 100. Hope this helps and good luck this season.
@@BuddyLe38386 no not at all I've been askin around around for awhile this really helps alot! Thank you so much for all the info god bless from ole Carolina and good luck to you too!
I have taken a lot of deer and hogs with the 450 BM at ranges from < 50 yards to 235 yards. I shoot it from an AR with a 16" barrel. It shoots sub-MOA groups and has worked flawlessly to drop everything in it's path with a single shot . I have tamed the "substantial" recoil with the correct spring / buffer / recoil pad / muzzle brake and have no issue firing a "substantial" number of rounds in an afternoon at the range. So, I believe it comes down to what is the intended purpose of the weapon??? If your intent is taking game effectively and humanely from close in out to ranges in excess of 200 yards, choose the 450. If you are new to shooting, if you are recoil sensitive, or if you are looking for a weapon you can take to the range to shoot 100's of rounds per visit, choose the 350.
"Substantiality" nice review on both cartridge's, well done on the drinking game. Have now watched the video 7 times to get hammered lol. Had to get you to a nice round number of 100 subs :).
Hey can you reach out to me at my personal email address. chuck.raymer@gmail.com
I subscribed just for the intro drinking game 🤣. Great video!
I have only the Ruger American bolt action in 350 Legend, and it has been a superbly accurate and utterly soft kicking rifle. Both are important for me as an old man, and the price that I paid has been very affordable for someone like me. My daughter is also small and she is also very comfortable with it. Not sure how hard the 450 Bushmaster would shoot, but I normally hunt with a 30-06. My guess is the two would be similar in recoil? I just think, though, as I get older, the 350 will be my favorite hunting rifle for pigs in Southern Texas.
I bought the 18" Ruger American in .450BM and topped it with a hand-lapped Vortex 4-12x44. 100 yard zero with Hornady Black shoots 1-1.5" and cloverleafs the bull at 50. Rings 12" steel at 300 yards all day but its artillery at that point. Devastating on Ohio whitetails. Even used it to tag the groundhog that's been tearing up my yard for years (bring a garden hose). Easy to reload, as it headspaces off the case mouth. Hornady 250 gr FTX pills over a small rifle primer with 38gr of Lil Gun should almost replicate the factory load. Chuck Hawks has some great info for reloading.
Well -- i built a 20in 350 upper for a150 -200 yd deeer&hog rifle. Couldnt. Be happier , accurate & hits a TON ! Low recoil, fast follow up ( havent needed a second shot !) Love , love , love it. Ammo cheap, frome 12 ---22 a box.
I almost didn't recognize you without your stovepipe hat! 😉
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😂😂😂😂
I have a ruger American rancher 450 bushmaster I replaced the stock with a Boyd's thumb hole stock it took all the kick out of it
I shoot the hornady black ammunition the scope I use is radicalized just for this gun and load what a game changer.in a state that was shotgun only now we can use a straight wall cartridge and I love this 450 compared to the shoulder breaking 12 gauge I have used since I was a kid.
I have both . I like the 350. I shoot at distances under 75 yards for deer so its more then enough its light and easy on the shoulder as well.
This was great video. I'm actually about to go to the store tu purchase a ruger American 450 bushmaster
Less recoil because of less power. In shooting the 450 opens up and despite its massive power advantage it actually is much better at dumping its power vs the 350. And for deer hunting 300 yards is more than most people will shoot. 450 drops more but is subsequently much better in cross winds. Especially since most will be coming from shotguns that had 1/2 that range. I found a good brakes for adjusted gas block make for massive reduction in recoil. Also run the rifle length h4 buffer and flat wire recoil spring it’s night and day recoil difference
My 350 has been great at dumping energy where it needs to go. I dropped a buck right in his tracks last year
The amount of info in this video was,,,,,,,,,,,,,substantial
It just so happens that I was scrolling down through RUclips and found this video and it's probably a good thing because it wasn't the other day I was in my local gun shop looking at a straight wall cartridge rifle and could not make up my mind. I am very much hoping the 450 Bushmaster is exactly what I'm looking for at least in a bolt-action.
My nephew shot his first deer last Saturday.
At 75yds the 350l with the 150gr win .
Went right behind the shoulder opend up took out the back of the heart and blood shot the lungs.
The expanded bullet was lodged in the off side rib. The deer took maybe 20 steps.
I bought both rounds 450 bushmaster in a 16” barrel AR and 350 legend with 10.5” barrel pistol for the loop hole of using it in Illinois!
The drop at range between the 450 and 350 is small enough to not matter (about 1.5" at 200 yards) the power at extended ranges however does matter. That 350 might shoot a tiny bit flatter at 300 yards but it doesn't have enough energy to ethically use on deer size game where the 450 does. And btw, light things dropping less isn't how gravity works. 9.8 m/s/s.
👍
I shot 2 doe about 100 yds with the Ruger Gone Wild 350 Legend and dropped them where they stood... I will be putting a youth stock on this rifle for my 8 year old Granddaughter for next year... Love this caliber!!!
I'm not sure why people bash the 350. I love it.
I smoked my second whitetail last night with the 350 legend. Dropped where she was standing 100yds out. 350 legend is great for recoil sensitive shooters and it does the job. The projectile drops like a rock after 300yds though
Thanks for the information. I have been on the fence about this for a while. I think I will get a .350 Legend first, then the 450. Bushmaster.
I have a Ruger American in 450 for hunting very manageable to shoot comes with a muzzle brake will beat the 350 any way you want to cut it even long range think this gentleman needs to take another look at that unless he just shoos paper bullet wait has nothing to do with rate of drop Newton's law of gravity only speed
@@kingfisher302 450 all day, over the anaemic 350...
Go 450.... ballistics on it are far superior when put in a light bolt action and the fact that it hits like a brick.... well I shot 2 deer with it this year (one over 150 yards) and the farthest tracking job as 45 yards.... turned chest into mush on both, recoil was minimal and I was using a 16.25” barrel with no break on a plastic stock... sight it in at 150 yards and it’s a within 8” “kill zone” out to 200 yards +.... and look at federal 300 grain blue box and Hornady 250 grain for deer, if you know someone that will reload them you can get 200 grain reloads for practice and predators....
I have the Ruger American 450 recoil is not bad at all 7 year old loves it
That was on my buy list...great value for a bolt and .45 caliber.
It's a great deer gun you will like it
I to have a Ruger American in 450 with the right scope it's a 300 yard gun all day long and I believe the range is longer than the 350 that 250 grain bullet is going to store more energy the 50 fps advantage of the 350 will disappear fast
I appreciate your analysis of these two rounds! I have been looking for something more comfortable for my kids to shoot.
I would like to clarify the following however. On earth, two objects of different masses fall at the same rate. When you drop two objects on earth, they do fall together, but that doesn't mean that they both exert the same force. All things equal, horizontal firing of each round yields the same dropping time.
The difference is in the forward velocity. Have a 8 year old that shot the .350 with no problem. .450 ..... not so much.
Your analogy is leaving out the difference is speed. While both objects drop the same when dropped together.
The faster flying bullet drops less at a given range because gravity has less time to work on the faster bullet.
I think what ya'll are talking about with two objects falling has to do with is called terminal velocity and the 350 could be traveling faster than the 450 but still not having enough speed for its size . By the statistics ( coming strictly from other comments ) of the 350 dropping sooner than the 450 could be these bullets just have different power to weight ratios and maybe that could be the shells aren't of the same length and/or the projectile not being made from the same metal and/or maybe not having the same geometry . In other words the 350 isn't just scaled down from the 450 thus the 350 isn't just making a smaller hole it also lacks in range and penetration . So to me the 350 sounds underpowered for its size and/or the 450 is overpowered for its size compared to the 350 . Actually the 350 sounds like it may have same power as a 410 slug but for me the plus being the 350 is FMJ'd versus 410 slugs not being jacketed , if that's important . But the next video I'll try to get a penetration test video and maybe jacketed vs non jacketed bullets . I sure hope all this made sense cause I definitely did get a little confused at times writing this .
How would the 350 legend compare to 357 maximum? I would be using thompson center contender format. Rimless v rimmed.
You forgot to mention magazine capacity. When hog hunting it’s nice to have the 20 rounds available in the 350 legend. I use the Winchester 180gr power point.
Good point
I hear you, but I'm having pretty bad feeding issues with mine. How'd you get over yours?
ravissary79 I actually tried everything. Different buffers, springs, bcg, magazines, etc. I ended up changing barrels to the faxon 350 legend barrel. Problem was solved. No more issues of any kind. The chamber on the faxon is completely different than any other barrel. The feed ramp is completely scalloped out. There is no center lug like in the m4 ramp. It also appears to have a shallower angle
Probably has already been mentioned, he called the 450 Bushmaster, 450 Legend, at least twice so far, I'm just over 9 minutes in. When both calibers are x50 with that common 5 0 as the last two digits, it can cause confusion.
And as I have seen mentioned, it is NOT a .357 .358 dia. bullet, it is .355 which is possibly the only drawback to the 350 Legend cartridge.
You really ought to talk to James over at Shoot To Kill Outdoors and All About Airguns I tell he really knows his stuff like you do. Grest Job!
I don’t know anything about the 450 , other than what I’ve read. But would it be a fair assumption to say it sounds like a 45-70 with lighter end bullets, in an AR platform?
I hunt with a Remington 700 mag but looking for somthing for witching a hundred yards after shooting 2 deer at 30 yards or less from the ground I need a short range rifle with a red dot or 2X optic. Thanks for the info.
I have both, the 350 loses A LOT of energy past 150...so saying it has way better range....meh, I don’t think I would hunt with it at longer ranges, just because the bullet has higher ballistic coefficient...it is very a anemic past 150 in my opinion. I would not even think twice about shooting a deer at 200 with my 450....I will take my 450 all day, every day over my 350....just my experience in shooting both a lot. The ONLY advantage the 350 has, is the price of ammo....or if you have a recoil sensitive shooter, but I switched from a Remington 1100 12ga, to the Savage 110 Scout 450, and the 450 recoil is way easier in my opinion....put a Leupold VX•R Scout 1.5-5x33 in some Seekins Precision rings, and it is one of my all time favorite rifles. Shot a 290#(field dressed) buck here in Ohio last year, it didn’t go 40 yards. 130 yard shot. I have 2 buddies who have hit deer solid, on video with a 350 legend and didn’t find them...not saying that will be the usual case, but I am grabbing my 450 10 out of 10 times. Just my experience, your mileage may vary. But I have shot both quite a bit, and I think the 450 is a better round FOR ME....accuracy is really impressive in both, a tad better out of my 450 but it is a bolt gun and my 350 is an AR, so you can’t really make a fair comparison there, in my opinion. I think the same guns, in both calibers, would be very close.
Exactly! And I wouldn’t hesitate to shoot elk or moose, many of which are harvested with .25-.28 caliber, again, within the cartridges range! Under 100 yards, I wouldn’t hesitate
@@slelliott14 even 150 yards to 200 max. The energy would work on a Elk with the correct bullet. I have the 450 in a AR. But...the bolt guns are far superior.
@@rustyshackleford2723 many deer taken at 250 yards. its all about knowing your gun though
Got the 350 for my kids to shoot and they both knocked down deer at 150yds, so I decided to take it out to the farm and plug a few doe (1 was at 170yds, the other at 225yds) both didn’t go 40yds and both bullets were pass throughs! I agree with you that the 450 is superior in energy out passed 250yds but the 350 legend will do the job in my eyes...happy hunting
Good stuff man. I just got into 450bm and am curious what zero do you use? I wanna use it for deer hunting, also if you know, could you tell me whats your point of impact at 25 yards? Reason being...... I dont have a better spot for now to zero.... so if I could get a good zero at 25 I would roughly be good out at distance... any info would be greatly appreciated, god bless from ole Carolina.
Put on the brake from Bear Creek Arsenal on my AR 450, now it kicks like my 6.5 Grendel. Super light, best money I ever spent.
Really curious to see what these new 360 buckhammer and 400 rounds do. They are brand new from remington. But again you will have harder time finding the ammo or even a gun chambered in it for the meantime
VERY well said. All good points.
I love the big kickers.
I'm thinking he most have the two switched. this is personally the first video of someone saying the legend is a 300 yard deer gun. I shot 2 deer last season with my legend. one about 75 yards , it ran about 100 yards and when i field dressed it i found the bullet in her and the bullet did not expand. the 2nd deer was 125 yards and i never found him. I have killed 7 deer with my 450 bm. the furthest was almost 200 yards none of them ran more then 50 yards. i would not have a problem shooting out to 250 yards with my 450 bm
Shot a doe this past Saturday at 115 yds bullet went clear threw her an maybe went 40 yds
Jesse Clark, what ammo were you using, because I call bullshit.
Deer have been shot at 300 yards with 350 legend. You just have to know the drop from your DOPE
Skull N Bones Society 300 yards the 350 legend don’t have enough energy for an ethical shot on class 2 game.
@@n8n876 call bullshit if you want, i really don't give a shit, i was using the win 150gr xp the one that did not exit hit the shoulder. the one that i lost, i'm not 100% sure of the shot placement, and im not the only one that has said the same thing. every deer i have shot in the shoulder with the 450bm dropped on the spot, how many deer have you shot with the 350 legend ? you going to also call bullshit on the multiple videos, in fact most videos and on here that say the 350 legend is a 200 yard gun, max 250 yards. you need to have a 20inch or a 22inch barrel to get the most efficiency. sure you can shoot at longer ranges, but you can also kill a deer at 300 yards with a 22lr, that doesn't mean you should and its not ethical.
..
350 legend for me!
Although I am confident that both are capable and will work, I just favor the 350 more
Chevy vs Ford, take your pick
I have a 18" 350 L in a AR platform from BCA It shoots amazing groups . My Bolt gun is a Ruger American with a 16" barrel the groups are not as tight. You think that 2" wouldn't make a difference. But It does.
The 350 legand is the same ballistically as the 30-30 win. That makes it a supurb 200 yard deer round -- given the number of deer killed by the old war horse.
Love the video, did you pull a Jason?
Very good video I think I'll choose the 350 Legend
You have a target round for the 350 and a hunting round for the 450. Yes, you did point this out. I do however wish would would have used comparable rounds for each. My $.02 Still, a good video. I will give you the "thumbs up."
That Hornady round has a big problem with bullet set back and jumping the factory crimp I like the Winchester factory loads better they seem to pay better attention
i want that 450 legend that was mentioned a few times... :)
The 350 legend may have less drop at longer ranges, but also has significantly less power.... i wouldn’t shoot the 350 on game out to 250yds.... that would be a mistake....150yds and closer for the 350L
It's been very effective for me at 200-250 yards
The 350 doesn't drop less than the 450 out to 300 yards. The 450 has alot more energy, less drop and less drift
@@TheWarriorsMind Speaking or range. I wonder why they never added a belt on the 350. A belt can allow for more powder without the risk of the case rupturing. More powder equals more power and range. Think 38 special vs 357 magnum
I think it could also give it enough of curvature when stacked together to fit in a standard ar mag and it provides more securing anchoring for the cartridge than the mouth.
I have both, and I would not even think about shooting a deer with a 350 past 150....I wouldn’t even think twice about shooting a deer at 200 with my 450. I have two buddies who have lost deer with good hits, with a 350, both on video(not saying this will happen often, but I have seen the videos of both hits, and helped track one of them).The 350 is just anemic past 150...I have shot and tested both a lot, and the 450 craps on the 350....I will not even take my 350 for deer, but probably would if I didn’t have my 450....but probably wouldn’t shoot anything past 100 yards. These deer in Ohio are pretty big, and they still don’t go anywhere with the 450. I have personally seen them take the 350 and where ever they died....they fed coyotes and not my buddies....I don’t like to feed coyotes.
@@rickmoss7040 I hear to many reports of the 350 failing to put down deer and loss of game. I keeping my 450, I'm good.
What is the longest shot you've taken with your 450 bushmaster?
I have a friend that dropped a doe at 276ish. yards with Hornady ammo.
I handload 225gr. & 250gr. FTX bullets and I get two inch groups at two hundred yards with my ar-15 build.
I have a friend that handloads 350 legend and with Hornady 165gr. FTX and 170gr. soft points the best he can do is 4-4 1/2in. with a Savage bolt gun.
From my experience with both is they are equal at 100yds. Past a 100yds. the 450 is much more accurate.
The 350 is often loaded with rounds designed for 357 velocities.... the bushmaster is suited for projectiles rated for 460 smith and Wesson.... better more consistent bonding of jackets and more surface area for rifling means better terminal performance down range.
@@robgraham7238: except the 165 FTX and 170 interlock are rifle rated bullets. If you use 38 and 357 pistol bullets they will for sure not shoot very well.
I think Winchester should have built the 350 legend around a 9mm 1/10 twist spec barrels.
If the bolt gun is a savage axis it’s the gun not the ammo
Lol that white box ammo sitting next to the Hornady is like a pinto next to a mustang
Do a vid on .444 marlin vs 450
Thanks for the info
Might as well get a 44 mag as 450 bushmaster I guess.what was the point of making it in the first place
If it's less than a 12 gauge with a turkey load, slug, or buckshot, I dont even consider it "kick". My choice for the last few decades has been the .30-06. 2800 lb/ft of energy and the deer always drop like a sack of potatoes. Should I even consider a .450 or .350? Seems like the only reason would be so I can use an AR. I have no cartridge shape restrictions where I am from.
I have a new 350 legend upper. Anyone else have feeding issues?
I don't have any experience with a 350 but my 450 had issues feeding, my issue ended up being more pronounced with a full mag and the cartridges were sitting a little higher in the magazine than they should, when the rifle cycled it would stovepipe, I ended up bending lips down a little and slicked them up with an Emery board, this forced the cartridges sit flatter in the magazine I think this allowed more clearance for my spent round to eject and the gun is reliable now, pay attention to the front of the lips mine allowed the cartridge to be kinda nose up now that it's tweaked they sit pretty flat, hope this helps and good luck
I've shot deer out to 300 yards with my 450 bushmaster. Shoots great and knocks down deer awesome!
I'd go with the 450 recoil doesn't bother me and the energy is more important than range. Where I hunt we don't get many shots over 200 yards and most are under 100 yards so longer range isn't something I worry about. Now if I had a younger child sure the 350 is a much better choice. In fact I have a friend and he has his son that is 7 and doing very well with the 350. Finding either of this is tough and ammo is even harder to find ordering it is about the only way to get it and that takes a few weeks according to my friend. I'm not sure who he.goes thru to buy the ammo but all are local places have zero 350 or 450.
First off the 450 is equivalent to a 444 Marlin in performance. Common sense tells us it’s a hell of a critter getter, and can be used on Elk size animals.
The 350 is close to the 35 Remington in performance and the 35R, is on hell of a whitetail round!
IMHO the 35R is very, under used and under rated, and is much better on whitetail size critters the is the 30-30!
So both the 350 and the 450 are a very big upgrade in a AR platform, in a hunting rifle.
So it comes down to animals hunted and recoil as the deciding factors.
Like you said, the 450 can punish you with recoil whereas the 350 is absolutely a sweetheart in recoil, up to Elk size critters, it’s the 450 and it’s recoil, or with smaller then Elk size critters it’s the 350 and it’s virtually no recoil, personally I would hunt Elk with the 350, if shot yardage is keep 100 yards and closer, it should have no issue with a clean kill, if the shooter does his or her part. Many lesser Cartridges have taking Elk reliably, the 35 Remington has taking it’s fair share of Elk, so has the 30-30, as the 357Mag and 44Mag!
The 350 has a lot to offer, I’m glad Winchester came out with it!
I would love to try the350 legend but being left handed and having three aneurysms around my heart I guess I can just forget about it
I have 350 mags and 450 mags. The 450 has the same issue as the 7.62x39 bolts, they are weaker because they are thinner. But if you just hunt with it once a year and buy a good quality bolt your good to go.
Shoot it in the Ruger Ranch it ain’t nothing out of a AR platform. But I’m not recoil sensitive either though but it does have a punch. When your looking at 26-2800 lb/ft of muzzle energy yes thats going to punch you.
Anybody that needs 250 grains to take down a deer needs to spend more time at the range I have both and I haven’t used my 450 since I picked up my 350
If you can't take down a deer with a .22 caliber, you need to go back the range in our opinion.
I have owned several different calibers ,I don't think I have had one I didn't like ,I just try to let it do what it was intended ,I love the 450 in the woods where you get lots of brush ,and I love the 350 in a more clear and open spots I hunt in the edge of the woods thanks for posting the video ,keep em coming
Bullet weight has nothing to do with it.
450 is more tailored to deer hunting.... when sighted in at 150 yards it’s still within the magic 8” out to 200 yards with my 300 grain jhp... has enough energy to dump deer out to 280 yards... as a reloader it’s better by far easier to reload 350 is a pain.... also 450 is a good single shot cartridge as it has more frontal area, better terminal ballistics and I find its energy more inline with a LIGHT 308 than a 30-06.... oh and btw loaded to max pressures the 450 actually has FAR better ballistic numbers out to 300+ yards.....
350 is a pain to reload?😂 it uses 9mm projectiles and 357 projectiles
350 is a pain to reload?😂 it uses 9mm projectiles and 357 projectiles
You mentioned the 350 is better for longer ranges... that confused me, because everything I have read or watched, the 450 has much better range???
If you live in a restrictive state either plus a few others like 44 Mag, 444, 38-55, 45/70 work fine. If not restricted use whatever. If you just want to use an AR , I’d chose the Grendel or go AR 10.
Some of the states have restrictions that do not allow handgun cartridges. Also some that allow straight wall cartridges have min./max. length restrictions. Crazy as all of that is.
Standard 45ACP bullets are not constructed for speeds of the 450BM and will break apart
will the 350 legend load in a 5.56 mag.?
Yes, but you have to modify it to remove the two ribs running down the sides near the front of the magazine (these ribs keep 5.56 ammo from moving side to side since they are bottleneck cartridges). There are videos here on YT showing how to mod p-mags. Obviously, if you want metal mags, you should get 350 Legend specific mags as you can't readily remove the ribs. There are a few makers of the metal variety (CMMG and dura-mag come to mind). I have CMMG 20-round metals for my 350L, and also a 30 round p-mag (5.56) that I haven't modded yet. P-mags are cheap enough I don't mind modding them to see if it'll work.
Just an FYI, standard AR 5.56 mags do NOT work with 350 legend. They have a rail/indentation towards the front on both sides to keep the necked down ammunition from moving around too much. These indentations cause the front of 350 rounds to bunch up in the magazine. You have to buy specific magazines for 350 legend unless you only want to load 1 or at most 2 rounds into a standard AR mag.
true. I failed to mention that.
I agree about the 450 bushmaster recoil in an ar, but I've heard lots of people who use bolt action 450 bushmaster rifles say it kicks like a pussy cat. I highly suspect the felt recoil in ar rifles is due to the gas system and buffer, try a tunable gas block and see if you notice a difference.
I had the 450 in an ar platform and absolutely hated it due to recoil but now I have it in a bolt gun and recoil to me feels about the same as a 30-30
@@percefuloutdoors excessive gas pressure. I had a 450 upper that wouldn't cycle, meaning not semi auto and it felt like a 20 gauge or 762x39. My 450 upper that does cycle feels very close to 300 win mag.
Many years back but the 450 is only 4 years old lol nice video bud
I am a fan of thr 450 .. in real world scenarios, it kicks the 350 ass ..450 is easy to reload.. use 45 acp bullets and h110 or little gun... For bolt guns, you can load it the same as the 460 ... Fine round
I have both, and agree 100%, 450 kicks it’s little brothers ass in every aspect.
I'll stick with my 444 marlin with 265 grain Hornady superformance looks like a bomb went off in the chest cavity and I've not have one deer run off yet 👍
The recoil is not less or equal to a 5.56 lol it is still much more. However it is less than a .450 bushmaster for sure. The .350 legend has similar recoil impulse to a 6.5 creedmoor. It's a much heavier projectile still moving rather quick.
With the right muzzle break it is less. But to each his own.
@@snbsociety7442 with a 7 lb rifle the .223 remmington produces about 3.5 ft lb of recoil energy at about 6 fps. .350 legend is about 8.5 ft lb of recoil energy at about 9 fps. I'm just saying that the recoil of the 350 legend is considerably more stout than a .223, it's not even close. Yes a muzzle brake can mitigate some of that.
How many times did he say 450 legend?
Too many. I'm easily confused......
Ya the 450 has enough energy to kill at 300 yards. The 350 doesn’t.
450=300yard white tail gun
350=200yard
but you will never KNOW until you or someone else tries it. Paper/calculator computations are not the end all when the human factor is there.
Is shot a doe this year with 150 grain, at 220 yds, and absolutely destroyed both lungs. Another guy I know, dropped a buck in it's tracks at 250. Don't underestimate the 350 legend.
Between me my dad and my daughter we have killed 8 deer in the last 2 years with the 450 3 of witch was over 200 yards and the devistation it does to a whitetail is remarkable and the accuracy is unbelievable I put a doe down at 237 yards put it on my 250 position on my scope and drilled her perfect dropped in her tracks
I agree, but if you want a 450 with less recoil try a mossburg /patriot model. For some reason the recoil is half of the ruger / rancher or the American rifle. 2 good friend's bought the patriot and said why is everybody complaining. It's true. I own the ruger 350 w/the 24 inch barrel. And I've shot the 450 patriot. It's down right weird. Try it.
the .450 in AR platform, is the perfect single caliber for home defense and hunting whitetail out to 300 yrds.. Have a red dot reflex scope for home defense and when someone comes through the door that isnt supposed to, limbs are being taken off with precision.. Drop deer out to 300 yds like a a laser guided bomb.. yeah if your buying ammo its expensive, but then if you want to plink get a .223 or a .22 in AR and shoot all day long.. If you reload .450 you can shoot pretty cheap..
Theoretically, you can reload 45 cal. pistol bullets into a Bushmaster case, but not always! Most 45 cal. pistol bullets have a max velocity of around 1200 fps. You'd have to be very careful about selecting the proper components and powder when doing that. Personally, I'm not aware of any published load data that does this. I'm not saying it doesn't exist.... I just have seen anything and not quite sure why you'd want to?
I have asked some 454 bullets same diameter 452 diameter the revolver bullets are thinner jacket then the rifle jackets I have been told the jackets can separate and can get stuck in your Barrel and then your next shot you might get lucky and blow it out the barrel or you might get unlucky and blow up the gun so I would recommend against it
Wow, where do I start. I build AR's and both rounds are fine for Whitetails. In fact, I bought a Ruger American in 35 Legend for my grandson to hunt with and it will be passed down to all the grandkids to use out to 150 yards, it loses a lot after that. I have built more than a few 450's and they recoil like a 30/06, in other words, not that bad. A few years ago I bought a Ruger American in 450 and found once your away from the limitations of the AR platform you can really step up the performance of the 450. Ever hear of a 450 Raptor ? It's a Bushy just .100" longer, basically a 460 S&W with a .308 rim. I use heavy loads of Ramshot Enforcer to push the Hornady 225 FTX to 2600fps. out of that Ruger bolt gun. Talk about substantial. No pressure signs and shoots real nice out to 250 yards and clover leafs 5 rounds at 100. No more than 6" drop at 200. Never had an animal take more than 3 steps after being hit. Break the kids in with the 350, once ready put the 450 in their hands as long as they aren't recoil shy.
100" longer ?
Was that meant to be 100th of an inch?
0.010"
@@dittman2564 Yes, I guess you missed the decimal point. The case of the 460 S&W is .100" longer than a 450 Bushmaster. 1 tenth of an inch not 10 thousandths (.010") of an inch. That's basically a case trim range.
The 350 looks like a great deer cartridge for kids, women, and smaller fellas, but I don't really agree with the 450 having a "substantial" kick... For those of us who hunt waterfowl with a 12 ga. 3" on the regular, a 450 seemed pretty mild to me. I'm strictly speaking in regards to a hunting application. I guess a few hundred rounds through an AR platform would be a different story. When shot through a Ruger American Ranch rifle, it was like shooting a 20 ga. Nice video, thanks for sharing...
Agree. It is often times the specific gun that makes recoil better or worse
With practice you can shoot 3 inch groups at 300yards with the 450 bushmaster.
People that say the 450 kicks hard have never shot a slug gun
Taylor KO Factor places far too much emphasis on bore diameter and not enough on energy. As one example, the TKOF for the load in the video is quoted at 35. The TKOF for a 338 Win Mag, a very highly recommended cartridge among professional grizzly and brown bear guides. You know, when their life is on the line.
Personally, I just don’t see straight wall cartridges being a thing except where the game law requires. I’m in OH. Gotta shoot one unless you want I be beat up by and put up the other shortcomings of, a slug gun.
My 450 would bruise my shoulder in 20 rounds before I upgraded my recoil system. Now it's only slightly more than 300 blk recoil.
I think I'm still leaning towards 450. 357 ammo is still hard to get and far more expensive than 45acp. And I carry a 45acp. So if I got into reloading I'd be stocking up on 45 bullets anyway. Makes more sense in my situation. As for recoil, I really don't care about that.
As for the bcg. If I'm buying a whole upper I'll just get a 450 since it comes with a bolt anyway. And I already have a standard bcg when I bought my 300 blackout upper which I tore apart and swapped to 22lr because 300 blk was getting ridiculous to find and too expensive for punching paper.
if you carry 45, its a good choice. I like to keep cartridges I reload to a minimum.
I don’t think nobody could shoot 200 rounds of 450. I have shot a box and that was definitely felt
All I know when I’m the last one in Walmart looking for ammo,, there’s always a few boxes of 350 Legend all by themselves……….ymmv
Use a 450 Bush master bolt action.... Very little recoil. Bit worried about your felt recoil
It’s a push more than a slap, recoil about like a 30-30....
I have both ,for me it's the 450 bot when i.let my nephew shoot it's the 350., Both great. Rounds ,I'm just a 450 cat ,but that's just me
I have a tanker break on my 450 and the recoil isn't bad at all. Yea its more than 223 Its less then my bolt action 308
My ruger American ranch 450bm has a 17.5 or 18in barrel with a stock brake kicks like a 20ga imo
@@ronniejohnson3781 my 450 is an AR so the recoil is probably less than a bolt action. I hunt with a savage bolt action 20 gauge and and the 20 seems it kick a little more to me. Hornady and Remington actually load the same exact bullet in the 450 and the sabot slugs for the 20 gauge.
@@Dfleuryoutdoors thats pretty interesting tbh. Never seen remington 450bm ammo only federal, Winchester, hornady
@@ronniejohnson3781 yea Remington loads their 260 grain accutip bullet for the 450, which is the bullet I use in my 20 gauge thats how I realized that they're the same.
Would you use the 450 for Moose?
I personally would at close range.
@@snbsociety7442 Thanks
Disagree on part of the statement in video. Not sure about ar-15s etc..., shot them before but it is not much my thing.
But the recoil on the 450 BM is not really bad. It is not anymore recoil then a 20 Gauge shotgun, and most people I know use a 12 gauge for birds etc....
In fact I think 450 BM has less recoil then a 20 gauge shotgun. And do think most teenage kids and most old men and most women can handle the recoil on the 450 BM. The 450 BM is not the type of caliber that most people will not shoot all day long like a 22 LR.
But did not yet shoot the 350 Win Legend. But hear people speak highly of the 350 Legend.
But do have the 444 Marlin and the 45-70 in the single shot. And I would say the recoil on those are very high and they will be arm bruisers until you get use to shoot something like that. But for hunting I bet most people will not even feel the recoil when they are hunting and they shoot some kind of an animal, from on any caliber. Then according to the book, Cartridges Of The World, they said the 450 BM is also very good caliber for moose and elk hunting less then 250 yards.
I love my .444 single shot H&R wouldn't use anything else 2" high at 100 yards dead on at 200 more velocity than any of the other ones and is still deadly at 350 yards +
@@williamhochstetler13 Agree, its 1 of the best calibers to hunt with for anything under 200 yards. Maybe I am not the best shot with the 450 BM. But, speaking with my experience I do think the 444 Marlin is more accurate then the 450 BM. But much more recoil.
Probably the most superior of the straight wall rifles is the 444 marlin. Its just not as common as these 2 listed so less people get it. But trust me, when you see what it does to a deer you will have your mind blown. It has more energy at 150-200 ysrds than a 44 magnum has at the muzzle! But its not practical for most because ammo is harder to find!
Have one and love it. Can't find ammo around my area
That 350 ammo you're shooting is Target ammo which is about $18 a box. The same exact ammo for hunting is $33 a box and the box is grey. Unless you're hunting with Target rounds which doesn't give you the same expansion and won't give you the same knock down energy you can't compare it against a 450 hunting round
It was what I had on hand. It's still cheaper than .450.
He kept saying 450 legend lol
I pay $2.58 a round here in Canada for the 450 Bushmaster
U shoot 395 out of my 450 love it
I shoot stupid phone
the 350 is perfectly capable of dropping a perp trying to rob your home. quit comparing apples and oranges...
I agree, what possesses anyone to compare two totally different rounds and say that one is better than the other? I think some people just like to hear themselves talk. Each caliber has a purpose. Each is good for what they were designed for. The guy totally misses the idea that children or females may like less recoil with the .350. but that some may not mind the .450.
@@medic7989 Yepo, and he's full of it that the 350 has equal or less recoil than a 5.56, it has more, for sure, but nothing like a 450.
Your missing the point.
He's talking about deer hunting not perps.
For those considering a rifle in these chamberings this video will be helpful.
450 is basically a semi automatic shotgun sabot slug 🤷🏽
That has better range in a more compact and reloadable package
I have a 450 BM and it doesn’t kick like you are Describing
it depends on the gun. some are better than others. agreed.
450 is substantial for me