FMJ, why it's not the ammo you should be stocking up. Uncomfortable Truths
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Today we take a spicy take on why I'll never recommend full metal jacket (FMJ) as an option for defensive use. I believe a lot of the reason FMJ is so highly recommended is misunderstood performance and what you really get for terminal ballistics. So strap in this video is almost as uncomfortable as my prepping truths videos. #wrol #prepared #preparedness #prepper #shtf #teotwawki #minutemen #prepping #preppergear #firearmstraining #guns #firearms #prepperguns #ar15 #m193 #m855 #m855a1 #mk262 #fmj #minutemenrifle #handgun #9mmnato #556nato #762nato #m80ball #230gr
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Hundreds VS. Thousands
I will always choose more ammo😊
Problem with thousands. Who is going to carry this weight out. In a vehicle maybe. But different guns; different calibers. It’s ALL weight. If SHTF carry a mag or two for 2/3 firearms and bury the rest secretly. If you’re still alive you can get ammunition and maybe upgrades. It all comes down to weight. I’d rather carry an extra canteen of water on hikes.
@@HVSJR-n5q It's about continually training not carrying it all.
@@HVSJR-n5q been saying that for decades.. Why stockpile thousands of ammo for SHTF scenario when you can only carry a couple of pounds worth.
@@im2lostIn SHTF, you wouldn’t want to be alone, so having a stockpile would allow you to give some to friends, family members, neighbors, etc. in your clan who are less prepared and of course you can always barter for food, batteries or other items
@@larryh311plus, if you have the ability to bug in and it's the wiser choice for the scenario, you won't have to worry about moving it all. You'll have the extra stocked up.
I do think it's smart to bury extra arms and ammo in case you have to bug out from your home for any reason. Having a hidden stash would really be beneficial.
FMJ has been getting the job done in Chicago for years.
It's failed in a few calibers, big time...
Most gunshot victims live
@@nathancummins8728because most criminals are bad shots
@@whisper8742other types of rounds fail other calibers too
@@nathancummins8728 only if its a pistol...
Why carry FMJ? Because 2 holes bleed out faster than one. 🤣🤣
This is probably one of the most interesting ballistics vids I’ve ever heard. I’m very new to this topic.
This is all very simple to solve. Buy a Ak in 1990 and all sorts of good surplus ammo in every flavor.
Oh shit, wait....
Stock both.
Yep,always.
Agreed
Winner, Winner chicken dinner
I completely disagree. People stockpile thousands of FMJ because it's cheaper, it's the most common, and still very effective. In 2024, 99% of people (including myself) dont have the disposable income to stockpile "defensive rounds." My suggestion is to get more accurate. The type of bullet doesn't matter if you can't hit what you want, where you want. Shot placement is far more important than bullet selection.
hence my comment in the video about why fmj is important. It makes sure you don't miss with your defensive loads
@unclefreedom213 I think you're too hung up on this defensive load stuff. Some of it is great, don't get me wrong, but I think you're doing a disservice to your audience by telling them FMJ's are not a viable option. Especially when you consider the current economic state and what's actually commonly available. No potential threat is going to care what ammo you used after getting shot in the face. Again, shot placement is everything. Training is key.
@@airborneivan "Man, I sure am glad that guy is shooting at me with just regular ol' ball ammo!" lol Don't get me wrong, I love this guy's videos and his opinion on things, but @UncleFreedom I think the idea of defensive loads is kind of irrelevant - longevity, in my opinion, is far more desirable in any SHTF scenario... I have never been shot at, never served or anything like that. But I do know for a fact that anyone that has been shot at, probably wasn't thinking to themselves "Oh shit, i really hope that guy isn't using 77gr Mk262 black hills ammo". I also do not think most of us civilians would be able to shoot sub MOA groups at 100yds under immense stress of being fired at.... I'd rather have 10,000 rounds of M855 than 5,000 of the gucciest ammo available.
Exactly
@@WillPerry-ez9rn WHAT HE SAID!!!!!!! In spades! Got multiple flavors of ammo on hand - The key is putting shots on target. Everything else is meaningless jabber. Punch holes that let the blood fall out. Mission accomplished. Doesn't matter if it's 20-30 cents (OK, OK, so inflation made that number obsolete before I even hit "post") a shot FMJ, or the latest, greatest, ultra-mega-mondo super-duper 10 dollars per round ammo.
Its like this guy looked at every piece of wisdom related to prepping and decided "im going to be wrong"
I get his points but naw quantity is better in end of world survival situation
@@Darthdoodooagreed
You also stockpile so when ammo is overpriced you have a stash and still get to train
My exact thoughts. This has to be a skit he put together to get negative attention 🙄.
I hear what you are saying, and if it works for you great, but what I saw in Iraq and Afghanistan and the insurgents, they got the job done with bolt action rifles and dirty trashy rounds because they knew and used the terrain and quick hits in guerilla warfare. So my stockpile of clean packaged cared for ammunition will do me just fine. I respect your thoughts though for sure
think of what they can do now that they have 1billion worth of high quality arms from the usa. i bet we left alot of ammo too. we probably left it so they would kill each other with it
@Sageofthe16 yet we went hand across America because some guy lost his canteen or getting counseling because I "misplaced" a headspace&timing gauge for the M2
@unclefreedom213 from what i understood, the guys who were in Afghanistan were told to leave personally issued gear, and not worry about it, only to get billed for it after returning home.
@Sageofthe16 no we left it because Joe Biden is totally incompetent and Millie is a traitor.
@@unclefreedom213never lose sight of the fact it was just another civilian temporarily in a uniform who endorsed and enforced all that. 👍🤔
Ok 1st off, let me say this…… you are blessed and highly favored if you don’t know or can’t understand the concept or circumstances why most “common “ people stockpile FMJ or whatever they can afford without the pleasure of being able to have deep pockets and buying a abundance of expensive rounds for every weapon In the house. I salutes you young man………. For the regular day to day Americans… please buy what you can afford don’t let anyone try to make you feel less armed or incompetent because you don’t have a team with deep pockets…… imagine stockpiling thousands of expensive ammunition and talking down on what they feel is less than themself just to “God forbid” get clapped In the noodle by a rusty .22 revolver with a bent fmj bullet….life is truly funny like that…..God bless America and stay humble and always be grateful for whatever you have.
Loved your Comment and Overview !! God Bless n Plz plz Stay Safe !! We all need to Pray n Be Prepared !! 😎
With almost 30 years in treating GSWs in ERs I can tell you that a hole is a hole, and it's always bad. I have seen cases where a HP was used for a head shot and did not penetrate. The vast majority of head shots were using FMJ and it always did the trick. I also saw a lot of non-fatal fragmentation wounds on the thorax and abdomen, which pretty much makes me question the value of $1.50 a shot ammo. My practical experience says not much, especially for hardened targets, like a skull unless you T-box the bad guy.
You do you but I'm not spending $35/box to train with my defensive ammo.
Spot on Doc, thanks!
I love it when tech nerds get debunked by real life experience.
First, thank you for your work in the ER and the countless lives you saved.
Something I always wondered, do you get all the GSWs into your ER or is there a more benign subset with muscle tissue pass throughs that get treated somewhere else? Thx
You show a great ammount of
knowledge about the rounds ballistcs and pro and cons about this or that ammo . I appreciate you sharing that with us here and it is interesting. I see a small problem when people are getting lost in their religously believe in what works and what not works anymore just because something is a little better than the other .There is no doubt that hollowpoints are better regarding stopping power . I call myself halfway knowledgable when it comes to guns and ammo. In the end a hole is a hole and fmj will kill you as dead as every other bullet. And in every decent caliber fmj will always penetrate enough
Fmj will kill and take you out the fight. especially in a shtf situation when no emergency room is working any more. First thing to have is a working gun and a bullet that will reliably go bang when you pull the trigger. Second is that the bullet needs to have the
penetration to punch throu vital regions of the target which leeds to the main point - you gotta hit that spot.
Everything else , all the benefits of expanding bullets etc are just a slight improvement . Yes , you should have premium self defense ammo in your personal firearms you should test it for reliability in your gun and you should have a couple boxes of it stashed. The other main reason why law enforcement and civilians are usig HP- ammo is that you do not want to hit bystanders because of overpenetration and legal reasons .
For an shtf i would feel not undergunned if all i had was fmj .A quality fmj will always feed better and more reliable than any hollow point , it will penetrate obstacles better and it costs maybe a third.If I stash ammo for shtf - and i do in an - for me reasonable amount -it is quality brand fmj. I gues everybody does according to his prioritys .
Chances are imho pretty good that in any realistic shtf situations most other things are of way more importance than that if my ammo is fmj or hp. You can have the best gun and gear and the newest technology gear but it will make no difference when a low life shoots you a .22 l.r. bulk pack round nose bullet into your backhead to get your stuff.
Probably we will die of old age before we went trough the first box of our stashed ammo for shtf reasons. For me its having a reliable gun or a couple , practise with it on a regular base and to have a certain ammount of reliable ammo stored. Then i call it done.
To many others things to do.
Good info doc
Hate to break it to you brother, FMJ is very effective. The problem with it is that it's effective on anyone and everything behind the target as well. When SHTF, most people arent gonna give a damn about people they dont know. Sounds shitty but thats the way it is and it aint changing
What’s behind em likely ain’t great for you either unless they’re assaulting your party pretty sure a round looses alot of its umph after going through almost a foot of tissues tho
Dude “would have joined,” probably hunts a little, and read a book on ballistics. That’s all he knows and thinks he has to be right all the time.
I'll bet that the guy that gets hit with that FMJ is going to say he shot me and it wasn't a hollow point.
😂😂😂
And you win the common sense award…..Thank you.
Right, its the same thinking that says "don't carry a 22LR " I've yet to find people willing to get shot by it.
What about the kid on the other side of him when it goes right through him?
Like Monty python it tis but a flesh wound 😂😂😂
Hmmm 🤔. I suppose if you have the funding for thousands of round of Federal Hydro-Shok or whatever your favorite flavor is this is not bad advice.
That said, if it’s a matter of having 500 rounds stocked vs 5,000…. I’d say go with the 5,000
5000 gives you more opportunities to practice
500 might work for Spartans but we know what happened to them (Yes I know it was 300 🤫) when the numbers dropped. 5000 when used in a defensive position will last longer than 300!
The video that changed my mind AWAY from this young mans opinion, because I was once in this mans camp was the Owner of Patriot Armor. He showed that Level 3 and even 3+ rated AR500 Plates CANNOT ALWAYS STOP CHEAP 223 OR 5.56 FMJ... when they can stop 62gr 556 and 308... WHY? BECAUSE ITS FREAKING GOING TOO FAST AND ITS TOO DAM SMALL. So you wanna punch through a plate carrier... 18"-20" AR15 firing cheap 556 FMJ under 200 yards will have the best chance to do just that.
If I am 1. Reacting to contact, or 2. Breaking contact, it is on minimal consequence which ammo I am using. I don't expect my girls to be making shots outside of 100M. The biggest threat I see us reacting to is getting away from the city. Covering fire cares not if its 55 grain or 62 grain, getting off the X is my concern.
He probably hunts and shoots at the flat range and thinks he knows everything. He obviously hasn’t learned basic battle drills.
The delusion is thinking when the SHTF, you are suddenly going to be blessed with the skills of Wild Bill Hickok. Training is good, but nothing like the real thing. Real combat has a 10% hit ratio. That 300 rounds of expensive, premium ammo aren't going to last long when over 270 are going to end up in the bush.
well with my previous life and current one not so worried about the stressor of a two way range.
Thank you… guntubers are getting cringe AF 🤦🏾♂️
I was hoping the mindset videowould do better than it did I cover most of the real truth behind how it works
I create educational content lol I wish I was a guntoober them boys make bank
@unclefreedom213 why don't you give answers instead of acting pissed off and ridiculous? Remember...informing people the right way without acting all crazy is beneficial to everyone who would be fighting on our side. What is an affordable, accurate, devastating, and obtainable round to stockpile. That is something I didn't get out of your rant of of a video
No matter which round you like and stock, all that really matters is that you stop the threat. Everything else is not worrying about.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
FMJ is not about "that's what the military uses and it's good enough for them". Same can be said about the AR platform and the 5.56 everyone seems to be so obsessed with. Most people get one because it is the caliber Uncle Sam uses and the AR looks similar to an M4. More or less exactly what was being griped about on FMJ. The AR is far from the most ideal. Lowest bidder is so called for a reason. When you can't just use the 203, LAW, M136, or hose a doorway to keep the targets pinned down so you can call in CAS, that seems to be the infantry SOP, then it's limitations become real clear. We be civilians, not NATO. We must rely on direct bullet contact.
I don't have FMJ because it is the cheapest or it's what the military uses. Or because, "I'm uneducated or set in my ways"....... I use it because it is the most reliable out of my weapon systems I have, A 200gr FMJBT will kill you just as dead as the wonder bullets that transfer 10,000% of the earths energy during a solar eclipse while mercury is in retrograde when put into the target at an obtuse angle. And it will do it well past the range that the 5.56 becomes a 22lr. I'm not impressed by the new garbage. Plus I'm too damn old to go out and spend several thousand on new weapons and probably $80,000 on half a million rounds of modern ammo and spare parts. I'm trained and effective with what I have and got enough ammo and parts to last a long while.
But just wait 20-30 years. Everything you got stocked up on and are crowing about will be replaced by the kids with the newest rifle and bullet combo that is far superior to all others. And someone will say the exact same thing that you said on why you shouldn't get the older stuff.
And if anyone actually thinks a FMJ is inferior, ineffective, or obsolete. Stand down range.
"And if anyone actually thinks a FMJ is inferior, ineffective, or obsolete. Stand down range."
EXACTLY! Forget criticizing someone's 9mm or rifle ammo stocks....all of that is easy to kill/disable with. Sh!t, today's pellet guns can do some good damage. Most of these experts have not been shot to honestly say it doesn't matter what you get shot with.
Is it ok if I use wheel weight lead in .45colt and 45-70? I do have other stuff but it's just hunting and varment stuff .
Ball ammo I have may even be corrosive.
@@daleharvey3278 Cast for big heavy slow bullets is fine for shorter ranges. It beats harsh language or a rock. I use a lot or cast LRN for subsonic .308, where jacketed is an unnecessary extra cost. 45Colt isn't a long range cartridge, 45-70 really isn't either. Cast will kill something just as dead as any bullet if placed properly. If it's what you got then go for it. If the 45-70 will kill an 1,800lb cape buffalo then it should take anything ya want. And lots of people in the old days were dispatched with a 45colt.Just don't expect any anti armor or barrier capability.
@@daleharvey3278 Most wheel weights *used* to be lead, but a lot of them are aluminum now, so make sure it is lead and I would suggest adding around 2-3% Antimony and the same of Tin by volume. This should give you a solid hard-cast lead bullet that will work better at higher velocities and help prevent leading. I would recommend using a copper gas check for the .45-70 if you intend to bump up velocity past around 850-900 fps. Haven't dealt with it in a while so there may be better options available than what i've mentioned here.
@@billyholman4495 the wheel weight lead I have is alloy,not zinc,zinc has a laquer coating. You can add stick on wheel weight or linotype and harden by quenching. 2400 in magnum pistol,and 3031 and I've had no leading issues,using a good lube.
FMJ also have a tendency to tumble. Plus if you "poke a hole" in someone's chest cavity you probably collapsed a lung severed several major arteries in effect rendering the target neutralized. This what I was taught in basic training. Training with the M16 a 5.56 round and a 20 inch barrel which was accurate and deadly at 300 meters. The 300 meter target was used in testing and that's what the DI's were saying. Had no reason to doubt them.
Stocking up on fmj wasn't an issue until channels like this made it an issue. Thank goodness not everyone shares your opinion, or your logic
friend is an ER nurse in chicago and she told me most deaths and serious life threatening injuries are from 9mm FMJ and 22lr. not saying it's good but it gets the job done.
Nobody in the ghetto's got 300 dollars to drop on even a cheap 45. 9mm and 22lr are still deadly, not discounting that.
If they make it to the er then they didn't drop dead with that round. Just pointing out the bias of perspective
Depends on how many rounds they took. I wouldn't want to face several guys with 10/22s with 30 round mags.
Stock food gear ammo gold/silver. Slowly.
What are some good sites to get gold and silver
@@HillcountryoperationsThere’s so many good spots. I personally use Silver Gold Bull. Easy ordering and fast shipping.
@@Hillcountryoperations US Mint has a list on their site but uou can also get both from Walmart or Costco shipped to your door.
I prefer brass and lead to gold and silver
@kelshotss walmart works directly with bullion dealers free shipping good price.
In a shtf incident, there is no medical help available. A hole is a hole, you may survive if you are lucky.
Shot placement is what truly matters. Everything else is bull shit.
true shot placement is paramount but I'll still take better bullet design with great placement
@@unclefreedom213how many people have you killed? What works best?
Were you in military? Id number? I can see how many confirmed kills you have
@hopebrowning6300 All the more reason to have 10,000 rounds of fmj rather than 2,000 rounds of mk262. No one ever wished for less ammo in a fight.
Can no one afford to buy 1 or 2 boxes of good JHP every payday? You know FMJ goes right through a body and that's why cops don't carry it right?
Reminds me of the scene from Armageddon where Steve Buscemi says we are sitting on 4 million pounds of fuel, one nuclear warhead and a thing that has 270,000 moving parts all made by the lowest bidder.
😆
Yeh, gonna have to disagree with you on this one. I'll take thousands of FMJ rds over hundreds of specialty rds any day, all day, and then some.
When SHTF, definitely quantity over quality, and is FMJ really that bad? Nope it isn't AND I'd rather be comfortable knowing my training rounds are effective with the weapons I am using since i shot a lot more of them instead of those specialty rds.
Honestly specialty rds have their purpose for LE and some military applications, but for me, those days are over and FMJ is my all around Go To rd.
I stockpile to get my reps in consistently through the year
A gunshot is a gun shot, coming from a former LEO, gun violence hold no punches. But you do you boo boo!
This is the issue with getting into the numbers in the science too much. A fast bullet is a fast bullet. FMJ does damage because of the energy it dumps into the area AROUND the hole. That EPR you mentioned is 2.50 a round. It's better to have 5 times the ammo, than have ammo that, when it hits, does a bit more damage than the other, still lethal ammo.
I mean I did say that it was a terrible financial decision. Yep shock works but the temp cavity and shock is much better with a round that always performs
@Tmanowns thank you. Defensive Load's offer incremental performance increases just to do the same job where shot placement is of a much higher priority.
@unclefreedom213 it's always performing, it's just not NEARLY as effective.
Right now, hollows are vital in a home defense and hunting scenario. No doubt about it, that in the event of a break in, you want them dead, and for you to not deal with the hassle of a lying survivor claiming something else happened. And the less rounds you put in them, the easier your defense case will be.
In a SHTF situation, volume of fire is vital. Even if you're able to afford a lot of ammo, being able to afford 4 to 5 times as much is better.
But, to each their own. You're financially able to afford more quality ammo, and that's awesome! But I know I would pick ammo that performs at 80%, with 2-3 times the stockpile. God bless, and thanks for the reply!
@Tmanowns I will always advocate having better performing rounds in a gunfight I don't want marginal or it could do this or even the shot placement argument. I agree shot placement is paramount but you're not gonna 1 shot stop a guy in a running gunfight even in Sims force on force with highly competent accurate shooters. Low percentage shots and incapacitating shots are minimal even from 30 feet away. And this is with guys who've all seen the elephant, know what to expect and are pinpoint marksman. Shot placement goes right out the window on a two way range, so in my mind I would rather my primary ammo be as nasty as possible if I connect with thier hip joint, gut, thigh hell even thier arm. I'm all for having a ton of 193 I have close to 50k rounds of it but it is not and never will be my primary. Always love a good debate, thanks for being sporting about it vs most of what I get..... Grrrrrr you're wrong because I spent money on this ammo and the military uses it. Makes my day to have a good intelligent convo with yall. Cheers
Fmjs will always be better at hard barrier penetration (ie cover or armor) than soft point or hollow point ammo because of penetration. That's why they use it in war. Expanding rounds are for civilian use because it functions better on unarmed and no cover targets. Use the right tool for the job. Both are good.
The same people who say “good enough for the government” are the same people who will swap out the trash mil-spec trigger in an AR before they even take it to the range.
Put a Binary Trigger in it. Lol.
If you can't shoot with a stock trigger you just can't shoot.
@@johnnysasakithethird1209 If I’m building my AR from a stripped upper and lower and parts, I believe I have total control over what the “stock” trigger is for that rifle. 😉
A hollow point usually makes one hole, a fmj usually makes two holes. Which one will bleed out faster. End of argument.
Also for the price, you can make 6 FMJ induced holes for the cost of one hollow point hole
Ammo is ammo when you hit the target. This video is dumb. Fmj leaves two holes so more damage. Mission accomplished. 👍
The hollow point that expands.
The hollow point
After reading this comment a second time after seeing someonw.else had comment. I suggest you get some training. Both with firearms and especially medical. Two holes doesn't equate more leakage. It equates to a larger volume being able to escape faster. What matters is the internal damage. The hollow point may leave a hole in the skin. Go watch some of Paul Harrels demonstrations. And those feom others that prove you logic to be very flawed.
The problem with the theoretical/hypothetical " This is the one _right_ way to solve problem _X_ ” approach to problem solving is it nearly always completely ignores the mountain of historical evidence that definitively proves "the _most_ _reliable_ way to solve _any_ problem in practical reality is a hodgepodge of tools/techniques based on the individual problem space and the training, experience, and resources of the person solving the problem”. Endless arguments on theoretical ideals ensue.
Buy what you can afford....
Can you defend with fmj can you offend with fmj? You said it makes holes that's the point shot placement is also key. Hp ammo is not always consistent and can fill with debris cloth effectively rendering it a quasi fmj. I've seen gell test with hp from same box some mushroom some don't. And cost it's a big factor yes I'd rather have thousands of fmj rather than hundreds of hp. Oh and hard surface barriers fmj ALWAYS performs better. I'm trying to figure out why you think you are the all knowing expert. You are the expert of your own opinion not everyone else's. Just saying dude. Yes I do have some hp for self defense carry as over penetration is a factor.
Everything you said is exactly what I was thinking. RUclips has turned into an opinion pit. Not a lot of good information anymore.
I am one of those "I did not know", my default thinking was always FMJ NATO,, poor choices based upon lack of perspective.. Just lazy, I guess,, Well Done!
Why would the govt get rid of something that works you ask? To spend money. Politicians don't get rich without the kickbacks from spending your money.
One of the commenters here says Uncle sounds angry. LMAO!!! Dude must play in a sandbox with snowflakes and unicorns. I love the energy, very entertaining.
.....soooo...stock thousands of 9mm fmj? not thousands of 9mm hp? tell me more! :)
I'm with this logic. I want hp ammo and have since I was 10 shooting a 22lr.
23:05 Travis Haley mentions in his video on 4th April (The Bridge #14) that he was using that mark 262 ammunition during his now famous stand in Najaf.
Starting around 1h 12m he talks about its effectiveness out to range through a 20" barrel and then his interviewee talks about the issues they had using it through 1-in-9 guns.
Overall Travis was happy with the 800 rounds of it he left out and about.
How can he be so arrogant being so stupid?
Since ball ammo is used in war and battles then it’s good enough for me.
so you prefer to use a less effective round, not judging I don't have to be at YOUR gunfight.
@@unclefreedom213I prefer to have 3x more ammunition than you at half the cost.
I don't think an empty gun's going to be very useful.
Also people that will show up to attract bullets aren't choosey, they will not say "Thank god that was just a FMJ that is taking a tour in my body!"
They get GSW, they get the message. Simple.
You should watch my video "oh the lies we tell ourselves"
It must be nice to have so much money that you can stockpile, and practice shoot with high end / overpriced ammunition. As a combat veteran and a retired big county Deputy Sheriff I can say that whether its FMJ or extremely high-priced ammunition the human body still goes down after being shot. So, for all the rest of us poor people that still stock and shoot FMJ rounds. we will be here with our 5K FMJ rounds long after your 300 rounds of boutique ammo has run out. BTW, a hollow point that goes through clothing and plugs the hollow point up makes it almost like a FMJ round.
You don't have to be rich. I've been stockpiling hollow points for years. I pick up one extra box from the range once per week, and overtime, it has added up to a lot.
Well said...the human body is fragile and an fmj will do the job.
@@silvermine2033 Not sure where you live but in Southern California even Winchester white box hollow points are outrageously priced let alone boutique hollow point rounds. Don't get me wrong here, I have hollow point rounds for my handguns but just enough to fill all my magazines for self- defense.
@@rangerup1804 They’re expensive in my state of CT as well, but instead of trying to buy bulk all at once I bought two boxes at a time every week when I went to the range, and have been doing this for the past ten years and it adds up to a lot!
@hopebrowning6300 Actually, hollow points can plug up when shooting through clothing. Shooting bare gel doesn't get you real life results unless all of your human targets go shirtless all the time.
But fmj and scratch the tip off on the concrete 😅😅🎉
Militaries know if you use FMJ, you're more likely to injure the enemy, which takes out more than one soldier in battle, because someone else has to drag the injured off the battlefield and tend to them medically, basically tying up 3 people instead of killing just one.
Precisely my comment - so I see you beat me to it. Well done....
bull shit. a wounded man can still potentially fight. end the threat, dead enemy is also demoralizing. make the risk exponentially higher than the reward.
@@wisewhiterabbit I love when smooth brain people respond thinking they know everything.... It's a well known tactic, look it up!
@@JohnDoeTheTroll it's also well debunked.
@@wisewhiterabbit Mmk... if you say so
I can afford to shoot FMJ and since 90% of shots miss in a real world shooting situation then accuracy is more important than the super vel triple Deluxe nuclear dragon slayer hollow point round. Hitting the target in a good spot with a fmj is better than hitting the target in a bad spot with a hydrashock. Accuracy comes from practice and that leads to more hits. You will have more hits with the ammo you practice with. Fmj ammo tends to make an entrance and an exit wound so your enemy is bleeding out of 2 holes twice as fast as bleeding out of one. If you are forced into court for defending yourself than you have a legitimate argument that you choose ammo that was approved for use by the Geneva Convention because it was more likely to wound than to kill, I did my duty to go all the way to do the right thing based on a world wide international standard. I could have used the super duper grim reaper talons at $5. a shot but chose the way of mercy. Hollowpoints tend to break apart when hitting bone and loose mass which impeads penetration and reaching the vitals is critical. Fmjs tend to go through bone and hold together so maximum penetration is achieved thus reaching the vitals. Millions upon millions of soldiers have been killed with fmj rounds so it must be good for something. I like all my advantages with fmj including having 300-500% more for practice so I can hit my target center of mass, reach vitals and bleed em out fast. But that's just me, you do it your way.
Nobody ever said don't practice with FMJ and I've also done a video just on the subject of Shot placement
Basically, for every 200 rounds of FMJ I will buy, I will buy 100 rounds of quality self defense rounds. The reason is I train mostly with FMJ. But I also believe that FMJ will penetrate in certain situations where JHP will not. As a matter of fact, I stagger both types of ammo in each of my magazines that are loaded for SHTF. I have seen ballistic videos where JHP rounds did not penetrate deep enough into ballistic gel that was covered in a shirt and denim jacket. So, you won't hit vital organs if they are wearing a lot of heavy clothes. I think it's just good to have options when it comes to the rounds you stockpile, train with and use for SHTF.
I’ve done the same thing with my home defense gun and my every day carry gun. I’ve staggered FMJ and JHP rounds.
Buying my ticket where you at
A whole leaking blood is a whole leaking blood regardless of the ammo type.
Ok after watching 2 of your videos, you fall into the group of IF YOU DONT THINK LIKE ME YOUR WRONG. All you do is Lecture people and not have a discussion. I reiterate what I said on your other Stock pile video. Stock piling is not for hunting or self defense in your bedroom. Stock piling is for WW3 or Zombies and w that being said I don't care if it has to much penatration, that's what I want. Yes there's a difference from pistol to rifle, I'm more talking about pistol in this case. Rifle people will want greentip or OTM I'm more on the VMax side, I want explosive rifle round. I probably contradict myself from pistol to rifle but that's what makes America Great I can do what I want for my purposes and my OPINION. So am I wrong for thinking differently than you NOPE. It's what I choose and it will work perfectly!
you would be wrong. I fall into the I educate people I don't care if you take my advice or not. As I've stated a ton I don't have to come to YOUR gunfight. I'm analytical I study data and when you combine that with over 20 years of first hand data in military, ems, fire, search and rescue, and now LE. Not to mention comp shooter, handloader, and instructor. I pass on info you listen or you don't
@@unclefreedom213 ha, you prove my point.
For home defense jacket hollow point. For protection against a larger force use fmj.
Says "No BS" in intro and makes a 33 min video. Ok bud!
@@aecalietvenali feel free to seek content elsewhere my friend
@@bbaker7467 Well, bye 👋🏻
20:00 the technical term for that is nutation.
Have you tried the IMI 77gr sierra matchking hollow point? It’s the Razor Core Mod 1 (mk262 type).
yes pretty solid, not the best SD so a little inconsistent in the load but overall moa capable and the bullet is good
No one likes to bleed
Could you recommend one 5.56 round to buy and one 9mm round if you could only pick one? Thanks for all the information.
9mm would be 135gr +p critical duty, 124 gr+p good dot or HST, 5.56 would be fiocchi loading of vmax, or winchester sbsp 64gr
Thank you
@@unclefreedom213So I’ve got Hornady Black 75 grain saved, as well as some MK 262. Mostly because my stores if they don’t have one they have the other, so that’s how it went. Should I choose to keep stockpiling both? Or should I move to just stockpiling one? If so which would you choose?
And I use SPEER Gold Dot for Handgun Ammo. Is that fairly acceptable?
@@silasmadden5159 The best thing you can do is not listen to the guy in the video. For up close defensive rounds, use HP for anything else stick with FMJ.
@@silasmadden5159just buy cheap stuff and actually practice. Bullets are OP
I slightly agree & disagree with you
Honestly, if a shtf scenario, if you are in a gun fight, I’d probably going to be wishing I had FMJ because people are going to be hiding behind walls
A hole is a hole =troubles
I agree wholeheartedly... I use 55gr V-max as my Primary and have 55gr FMJ & 62gr Green Tip as Range Ammo and Ammo of last resort. Same with my 7.62, 165gr TGK as Primary and FMJ as Range/Backup Ammo. In 9mm I run 124gr Speer Gold Dots and FMJ as Range/Backup. I Zero my platforms with the good stuff and just deal with the irregularities of the FMJ at the Range.
Interesting historical facts. Thumbs up for the interesting history.
I think you were too hard on fmj. People should make a higher priority of tithing they owe God, than expensive ammunition. FMJ is still lethal.
A bullet is a bullet, hollow point ammo wasn't always around in history
They've been around a long time old times were turning around wadcutters, Keith bullets were drilled out and we ran soft bullets that flattened. Prior to that most died from infection from the wound
The first bullets were pure lead, in other words, EXPANDING. This was the standard for several centuries.
I like your comment,something to the affect of"if you don't get plugged right out of the gate". I agree that you shouldn't handicap yourself ever. if you have 5k FMJ maybe take it and get some training. as you train with it replace it with some good stuff.
My new theory these days is fmj rounds have their place. If the bad guy is behind cover I prefer fmjs.
Terminal ballistics are not the concern of anyone in the trenches of Ukraine right now.
In order to fire and maneuver, you need to suppress with volume fire. Not a single war ever hinged on terminal ballistics of any particular cartridge. This is the least informed take ever.
Stock up on NATO cartridges.
Its what the store has, and its what i can afford.
Fmj feed reliably
sorry YT turned off my comments.... back on now
Hey bro I’ve noticed alot of the 2A related guys lately have had comments off, is that a regular thing for yall?
Good to know! I've heard a few different channels say the same thing.
@@corycarlson8712 definitely something brewing they know people are starting to gear up, sadly I just turned 21 in February feel like I’m just a little to late
@@Hillcountryoperations You got time homie.. Just remember you don't need high speed gear, get a set together and train. If you can find others to help you along the path!
It’s been happening to a lot of creators, and not just in the guntube community.
This guy is not your typical gun snob, slamming you to justify his own purchases. No this guy just flat out believes he is right and you are wrong!
Probably one of the the most ignorant videos I've seen.
I am right for me I don't have to come to your gunfight nor you to mine. Run what you want after all its YOUR fight
The difference in terminal ballistics *does not matter.* Especially in SHTF. Without immediate healthcare and pharmaceuticals, _any_ hit will have the same resulting effect. If tiny groups or giant holes were required, we'd issue expanding match ammo to every Joe.
Trying to eek out the last few points in your long range match? Ethical hunting? Fine. Making hits that count? Not necessary.
*It's not the arrow, it's the Indian.* Always has been.
yes it's the Indian but don't you think if pointed sticks were enough they would have ever knapped out arrowheads. We don't issue expanding ammo for the reasons in the video and logistics. We did issue better ammo the 855a1, mk262, mk318, m118lr all the way back to ww2 m2 match because we knew what we had wasn't working as intended
While M855 may not be the "BEST" round for self defense it will still be effective and is, or WAS cheap. The best round is the one loaded and in your weapon when you need it. If you have multiple AR platforms which most of us these days do then YES you need multiple load outs. I have different magazine's with different ammo for my 10.3" than I do my 16" and marked the mags for quick identification. Also why I later on added 300AAC for CQB home defense and an AR10 for distance and harder hitting penetration stuff. It ALL depends on your financial situation. If you can't swing the higher dollar self defense rounds and a couple length uppers, then by all means load up on your personal flavor length upper and all the 855 you can afford and then later on expand as you can afford it. This HAS always AND WILL ALWAYS be my advice for "THE BEST" And also why the AR platform is THE BEST to start with. It's superb, by popping two pins and swapping uppers, bam your 18" range toy is now your 10.3" home defense toy and later on it's now your 8.5" 300AAC suppressed loaded with 200 grain subsonics toy. Great video we all appreciate it!! It will definitely get people to think about it and stop following the trends on youtube. Well maybe........
The US never signed the Hague Convention...... thats not why they dont use hollowpoints....
correct we didn't but we did however fall in line. Also the gubmemt is cheap and and will simplify logistics perfect storm
@@unclefreedom213 we did it because it was cheap, not because of the convention. My MK211 Raufoss rounds I used in Afghanistan are a prime example of us not abiding by the Hague Convention
@RickSanchez167 you're still off base but probably not for the reason you think. I love the m107 and m82a1 and everyone loved the M2. The ammo Mk211, AP, APT, API, APIT, Ball, etc. We never followed any rule and neither does any other country in regards to 50 cars or 12.7 soviet or the 14s. So why is that?
The heavy bored rifle and machine gun is a purpose built anit material rifle and ammo ecosystem. Do we use it only for that hell no, but I can tell you the 50 round is list in our inventory as anti material and not anti personnel.
@@unclefreedom213yeah, it's not like FMJ has a higher amount of penetration, is able to more easily punch through cover, and body armor a like, over hollow point. It must be because of a treaty we didn't sign.
It's a cost-effect, versatile round that can survive punching through light cover. It's not "because the military uses it;" the military uses it as a standard _for a reason_ . You can pick another round for a specific purpose, environment, threat; but it probably won't be best-suited should conditions change.
HP / expanding rounds transfer more force as they're designed not to pass completely through the target, but the tradeoff is penetration. You can run TMJ, AP, w/e, but your costs will increase exponentially with very little practical benefit in return. FMJ is the 'sweet spot.'
Shoot I know guys that cc fmj 😂
educate them hell share the video with em
Oh God why?
Hollow point not going through anything what yall think you won't have to shoot through a barrier to get to the target. Hollows aren't doing that. Stop listening to youtubers
@@GunsNGames248 critical duty and federal hst and speer gold dot and literally any other barrier blind offering would love to disagree so stfu this isn't the 1910s we know what we're doing now with handgun bullets. You can get offerings that do well even after passing the highly small arms resistant materials of plywood, drywall, a car door, etc
@unclefreedom213 if you're ever in a position where you need to break contact and not just assault forward in a close conflict, more is better. You will have much more capability slinging mags full of fmj to suppress and move than you would with hollow points. At the end of the day a well placed shot does the job, but when you need to sling large amounts of lead it's fmj all the way. The idea that it would never happen is pure ignorance. You never know when the SS will come for you. It's what happens when they do that counts.
I stack both. I do love Hornady black 75 grain HP. I got several thousand rounds of those at 1$ a pop. It get ridiculously expensive. I do have countless fmj rounds. Imho in shtf you use what you got next to you. I also came to the conclusion that some of the hp are not what they claim
124 grain NATO has been feeding pistol caliber weapons for the almost 3 dozen countries for years.
@hopebrowning6300 Nobody ever asked for their .40 back, don't lie lol. The .40 is literally the worst of both worlds, it's a pathetically weak 10mm at best.
@@billyholman4495 Convert that 40 to 357 sig and you've got the best hammer in a small package there is.
Prayers the time NEVER COMES 🙏...But if ...shtf ...does happen....USE WHAT EVER YOU HAVE ON HAND.....and if you've really trained an yahweh's has BLSSD you....r reloading an ammo an weapons an armor you'll ever need ...WILL BE LAYING AROUND FOR YOU TO PICK UP.....BE BLSSD N SEEK YAHWEH'S
Who else watched the whole video ?
Great Perspective.
It's only great if you forget everything important about small unit tactics , and the sheer reliability that a NATO cartridge offers to include feeding, crimp, swaged and sealed primer pockets etc etc
@@based_radio did I say do everything that he said in the video ? I think not. He just has a great viewpoint. Not saying that should be the standard. Good Day sir
Back when i was growing up poor in the backwoods of the Appalachian mountains, 1 shot 1 kill or you would get your ass beat. We learned fast to shot perfect to make every shot count , so using thousands of rounds to train wast of ammo. 99.99% of all things i have killed have been 1 shot to heads even running game.or just 1 well placed to a good location. Even i the Army i did this and they left me alone . My people have been here and have been in wars forever . came to North America in the mid 1600's as a General in artillery. So as Mel would say, aim small miss small .So don't miss so you don't die.
Yeah this guy is talkin out his ass! As the legend Clint Smith says. Pistols put holes in people. Rifles put holes through people and shotguns will blow a chunk of shit off and put it on the floor!!!!! So use what you have! Plain and simple!
And I have had the privilege of getting training from Mr Clint Smith and I can tell you for a fuckin 100% FACT he uses premium Self Defense ammo in his H.D Firearms, not some bullshit hard ball. Training yes, FMJ but if you're not smart enough to use good ammo to defend your family or yourself you have missed everything that man has been teaching since he was at Gun Sight.
@@adamrodgers2377
But this isn't talking about every day carry ammo.
He's talking about telling people to not stockpile fmj for SHTF, which is completely stupid.
Two completely different things.
@@nickdial8528 I have yet to hear him say DON'T BUY FMJ. I have heard him say multiple times it's fine for training but not for Self Defense use, and he is 💯 correct, FMJ is shit ammo for Self Defense Use. Would I want to get shot with it? Hell no! But I'm not fooling myself thinking my 10,000 rounds of 55gr FMJ is SD ammo.
Self Defense Ammo is more expensive but it's also easy to find on sale 4 or 5 times a year. Hell why not being the "best" Self Defense ammo I was able to put back around 7,500 rounds of Federal 9BPLE and it wasn't but $79 bucks per 1000 round case than hard ball at the time I found it on sale. I have used 9BPLE at Training Classes the last 3 Classes I took because it is super accurate outta my G17, the shit works my Comp decent and it's good to shoot full power loads during training.
As far as 223/556 I have a nice supply of 55, 62, & 75gr Gold Dot for SD and Hunting, in case I was to need it and a nice supply of Black Hills MK262. Yeah it's cost $ but is money worth more than your family or your life? I know money can't compare to my Daughter and my Girlfriend.
Also, and this is not directed at you, but anyone else who thinks this. I'm not "rich" in fact I'm on a strict monthly income, but I still find myself stocking up on premium Self Defense ammo because it works. I also have my Daughter and Girlfriend that loves to shoot as much as myself so we reload for that purpose, and we are able to shoot damned near daily. Having a range in the backyard is wonderful!
Finally, and I don't mean to sound like a asshole but I don't care what ammo YOU or ANYONE else uses, what pisses me off is this guy is giving solid ass information and folks are shitting on what he is saying. No matter what FMJ SUCKS ASS for Self Defense and also it is not the most accurate and accuracy is No. 1. It's a good training ammo.
Oh, he also said when and if you have to bug out that he wasn't carrying all his ammo. I know damned well I couldn't carry all my ammo even if I load my Suburban with just ammo and let my Daughter ride with my Girlfriend. Look at the big picture, not just the little things like ammo. If anyone had to actually bug out, they won't be taking all 56 Rifles, 83 pistols and 37 Shotguns. They won't be carrying 15,000 rounds of ammo for each firearm. They will probably have 5 guns per person MAX and about 2,500 to 4,000 rounds of ammo. Food and Water will be WAAAAAAAAAY more important that Ammo.
Fmj isnt optimal... But its proved over the years its absolutely lethal. The chopping block had a great gel m855 sbr video where he talks about how m855 hate is modern day fudd lore. "It just ice picks straight through". It can suffer from fleet yaw but on thicker targets like the ones your likely to come across it will work fine. Id take m855 over any of the best 9mm hps thats for sure. Get the best ammo you can for your budget. Start loading your own if you can. I get hornady 55gr sps for the same price as fmj so im loading up a stash of that. Only at around 500 rounds for now but moving it up everytime i go to the range. If you can afford mk262 or fbi bear claw for $1 per round go for it, if you can only afford m855 dont worry about it. It will work fine. If 9mm fmj is all you can swing go for it. Or of your budget allows for hsts or speed buy those. Or better yet start handloading.
ruclips.net/video/mOJdv38Fypg/видео.htmlsi=4rrzVOH6xw6FarTG
Also from the dark covid times experience having to use m855 for everything because nothing else was avalible... Its brutal. M193 can be even better out of a 20".
Or........reload whatever the hell you want. Fmj, jhp, ap, api, slap, etc.......by the way, fmj killed millions in ww2. Just sayin......
FMJ's puts TWO holes in things. Holes are holes, and the more the better.
Always Keep HST/Critical D’s in oem standard capacity mags and WWB HP/FPFMJ😴/underwoods/FMJ in tape coded extds 💨🚘🦌🐗🐻 and 20rdrs >30s for edc and long term reliability
Don’t get me wrong fmj will work if placed properly but it’s the same as hunting with a bow and shooting arrows with no tips, compared to a arrow with a broad head, it’s a massive difference between the two. Poking a hole is barely effective. Yes it’s deadly but it will not stop anyone instantly which is the point of using a firearm. You need to stop the threat immediately or it is basically worthless, period! And for the people that say oh it’s too expensive well how much is your and your family’s life worth? Buy the good stuff and a lot of it! Yes have some fmj for training and backup but not for your main defensive loads
Frankly if SHTF, everybody will want whatever ammo they can find. But, if you can afford Gucci ammo, by all means.
...there are places where no HPs allowed...so stockpile, aem...nothing?
Don’t get me wrong fmj will work if placed properly but it’s the same as hunting with a bow and shooting arrows with no tips, compared to a arrow with a broad head, it’s a massive difference between the two. Poking a hole is barely effective. Yes it’s deadly but it will not stop anyone instantly which is the point of using a firearm. You need to stop the threat immediately or it is basically worthless, period!
Training and shot placement trumps bullet configuration. Ain’t interested in this guys meaningless FMJ detractions….
*Keep punching out your videos. Your history recall is on point.
Subject: SHTF
1). If SHTF, I'm no longer in defense mode..
2). I was deployed to the Middle East /Africa 2014-2017.(Most of our enemies have crappy guns (legit duck tapped guns) and ammo & it all works, they killed lots of people, including my brothers in arms) Executive Protection 2019-Current. (Aiming to go to Ranger School) ... FMJ never failed me nor my bros... a kill is a kill.. Shot placement is what matters.. If I need a head shot.. FMJ all day. If I need to punch through objects FMJ all day... A kill is a kill. Let's not get lost in the technological analysis of ballistics per the common populace ... a hole in the body is a hole. Over penetration is why we do target analysis training. And sometimes... the unfortunate happens... That's war.. that's combat. . . If SHTF.. I'm expecting people to have purchased and homemade body armor... FMJ aaalllll day
Brown Scott Anderson Patricia Gonzalez Sarah
As someone who has done extensive research on this subject and has firsthand experience I disagree. M193 and M855 are excellent rounds to stockpile. Can you get more accurate rounds that cause more damage, yes, but you pay the price and not everyone has the budget. I rather stockpile 3x the rounds for the same price. Here in Canada we are limited on options and pmc x-tac 55gr m193 and pmc x-tac m855 are top options and can be purchased in a bulk 1000round package for cheap. I have shot pmc m193 in a 18.5 inch canadian made wk 180 at a 4inch gong comfortably at 440yds in prone position with semi auto fire. What's great too with 556 M193 and M855 is it has to meet the military specification and the primer and neck of the casings are sealed on top of being extremely reliable. For example, the lower pressure 223 spec rounds do not cycle properly in some IWI X95s. I do agree with the M855 stability and accuracy issues. PMC is extremely reliable, uses clean brass and clean propellant. The Federal XM193 AE 5.56 always has dirty brass. Also some guns just prefer certain types of ammo so its always good to try everything.
I would think "STOCKING UP" means stock piling for a time when ammo becomes scarce. So buy what you can afford. Its not edc. Or self defense ammo. Its your stock pile. At that point its not about any reason other than you feel you have enough reliable ammo if shtf.
What would be a good round coming out of a 16-inch 1 and 7 twist.
F N CHFheavy barrel.? I.
Have bought lots of ammo tribes, ammo pipes 55 grain 62 brain 68 grain 773.And I have even gotten some of the varmint
Most people I know only stockpile FMJ for Target practice. Most people who own AR-15 rifles use soft points and hallow points for engagements, Self Defense and hunting.
Just have both. I keep 6 pistol mags of hp ready to go and have 1000+ rounds in stock. Same with rifles, 5 AR mags of hp, 5 mags of fmj, and a few more boxes of fmj ready to go. A good mix of both is what you should strive for but I don’t see the purpose of having more than 2-300 rounds of hp for any given caliber. Once you get to that point just start buying fmj until you need to replace the old hp rounds.
yes, i've shot almost 100,000 rds of centerfire ammo over the years, but 90+% of it contributed nothing ro realistic skill creation or maintenance. It was just ignorance (and enjoyment) Today, I'd rather shoot 5x as much, mostly due to airguns and 22lr conversion units and not have to bother with picking up the cases, casting and reloading, or getting effed out of 15c more per round (30 c more for 223) than I feel like paying.
I only buy FMJ when I plan to go to the range and then buy it from my LGS rather than from the range. I'm only stockpiling defensive ammo in ANY caliber.
FMJ, why it's not the ammo you should be stocking up.
I SURE AS HELL NOT GOING TO SPEND 5X THE $$$ ON HOLLOW POINTS ...
Defensive rounds are made for rapid and immediate disabling of attackers at very close range that can potentially still do harm otherwise. In SHTF and also war any type of hit is effective.
It is likely that a variety of ammo types is necessary in SHTF. I agree defensive/hunting and other specialized ammo can be utilized in different occasions. FMJ, FMJ FP, can be valuable types. Maybe in certain calibers it is better to have FMJ only and in other calibers not.