I like to think Oswald lied to both the goddess squad and the central government. Not wanting the central government to rip the goddess squad apart to make a new generation of nikkes, he tricked them into staying on the surface so they'll live and then lied to central government about their fate so they wouldn't go hunting them down.
In my opinion another reason why they did took them out it is also because i don't really think that they would shut up and follow the orders of the Humans so that could leave a massive riot between Nikke and Human. Especially how Human were told to use Nikke as tools for reclaiming the surface.
The last line in that chpt 25 when Andersen utter Dorothy name when he is alone is obvious that he is the legendary commander kept alive by his built in life support hook to the ark powersource
A lot of factors got uncovered by Old Tales. So these are the most logical(unconfirmed by the way) reasons: 1. Central Gov can’t be trusted. With how desperate the CG can be at that time, Oswald probably knew that the Goddess squad would be subjected into experiments for Nikke development. 2. Nikke discrimination. Unfortunately due to Cinderella’s rampage, humans would fear Nikkes extremely and Oswald probably knew this as well so to prevent such hardships for the Goddesses, he lied to them to protect them from such animosity.
Real reason is the Goddess squad would take away from their power - the heroes and saviours of humanity would have alot of pull, and would be revered among the people similar to the church during medieval time. And would probably have as much influence, as the pope did in catholic kingdoms - where he could excommunicate, and take down kings. The Central goverment that's probly made up of powerhungry corpos, would never allow that.
Also getting corrupted is a factor, it’s why we don’t see nikkes as powerful as the pilgrims anymore due to that, sure, Eden is a different story but u get the point
People think that Grave is the same model as Pinne, but after this latest chapter, i'm kinda temptwd to think that Grave might actually be the name mass production model as Rapi. It would make for an interesting paralell if that was the case.
just played Old Tales and looking back at OverZone/RedAsh its a rather tactical retreat that leaves last deployed Nikkes in an unfortunate position of being abandoned
Speaking of Lilith- rember how in her bond story Rapi talked about Proto-Nikkes? One build like Adam Smasher- with in-built weaponry and advanced sensors. According to Rapi, they were much better than later, look-like-human Nikkes but were prone to mind switch due to non-human visage. So- who do you think is stronger: Lilith or Proto-Nikke?
Another question... Who created Lilliwiess? Someone made her and then were never able to create another. Something must have aligned to allow her to be the strongest Nikke with all others merely being copies that ballistics and science gave power too. After all, Partially corrupted RH tore Raptures apart with her bare hands, just like Lilli. Rapi in RH mode can go hand to hand with Raptures and Heretics. I can't recall any other Nikke who can go toe to toe except Scarlett, and she has to use her training and swordsmanship
@@davfree9732 I think that it is related to Overdrive. Lilith mentioned that her operational time was quite short for Nikke and she would die pretty soon. Rapi went Overdrive to tear heretics. Maybe Lilith was basically Pilgrim that was set perpetually in Overdrive?
@@AndrCPC Lilith is no doubt stronger. After all Lilith is the origin of all Nikkes, so anything that can be classified as one is an inferior copy of her.
@@TakenaShin But isn't here an issue? We are told: 1. Human-looking were made after Inhuman-looking. 2. Lilith looks like a human. So, she by definition isn't the very first Nikke ever. Only the first human-looking.
@@AndrCPC the game explicitly said that "Lilith is the first nikke" and Rapi never mentioned that those Nikkes weren't humanoid, or that they were created before Lilith. She just mentioned upgrades that can cause cognitive dissonance when installed to a Nikke.
Awesome video. Its a shame we barely got screen time of Lillith during Red Ash after disappearing in part 2. Hope that 2nd anniversary sheds some light on the events of Lillith and LC before her death
I think it's just as simple as what Oswald said, once the the Ark is closed it can never be opened. Atleast, during that time. They needed to leave the Goddess Squad on the surface to buy them sometime with the closing of the Ark. The sealing of the Ark took some time i don't remember if it was days or weeks.
Bro keep on doing these videos, because me and my friends (simply just only me) have watched your videos constantly every upload. Keep up the content and i promise you that many will tune in and watch till the end, like i did. Also tip: try adding some bgm if possible the ones used in the game. XD Luv this vids and i cannot wait for the next episode theory.
@@saeukanoch.8166 thanks for always tuning in. And yeah you're right I really should add bgms in the videos. I'll be sure to do it from now on, Thanks!
A Lilith glazer is a plus in my book. Take my upvote! Jokes aside, good video as always. I still hope you gain more recognition over the time. I'm really hyped for the day the writers reveal more about the past.
Aye. The phrase ‘once the ark is sealed it cannot be reopened’ hardly holds true with elevators taking squads up to the surface on the regular. Then again… what we dub ‘the ark’ might not be ‘the’ ark… I wonder if RH discovered the real ark in the hub of what the structures surrounding it are? Trophy’s discovery. Harmony cubes. RH’s discovery. NIKKE’s as a fuel source for Raptures… I wonder if Oswald wasn’t doing Goddess squad a favour by keeping what few NIKKE’s were left out of the Ark, necessitating the development of mass produced NIKKE’s. … Though even if Oswald saved Goddess by keeping them away from the Ark… he essentially traded the lives of thousands of women turned into NIKKE’s for his heroes.
@@davfree9732lol all of the goddess squad members ended up entering the ark later on. it's pretty funny in hindsight how dorothy made such a big deal out of not being allowed to officially enter the ark as a squad in overzone.
@@TakenaShin it's always made me wonder why the raptures haven't also entered/invaded the ark until nihilister. i can understand that chatterbox could have enough pull to keep the weaker regular raptures away for his deal with enikk, but heretics? no way and since indivilia is inside the ark already (as chopped up pieces of material h) plus the ark's power generator also potentially being a heretic/rapture, it seems weird for other heretics not to do anything to the ark until nihilister. it's like both dorothy and the heretics just decided not to touch the ark for some reason.
@@Yopee That's a very good point, the only explanation I can think of right now for the heretics, is if it was mandated by the Queen to not attack the Ark. But that just opens more questions tbh. Hopefully we'll find out the true reason soon.
Just one photo of Red Hood's fist through the chest of some child. Oof. What would humans even do at that point. Can't fight raptures without Nikkes, can't create new Nikkes because corruption is now publicly known. What little hope we have at the time would have completely faded. They'd have sat in the ark and just faded away. Man, they should do "What-If" sidestories.
Amazing video as per usual, but there were a few things you brought up that I kind of wanted to address. None of it even remotely damages this theory though. Before I get into that however, I did wanna offer my perspective on what you talked about. I think what Burningum mentioned of not wanting to create or manifest a Godlike entity specifically pertains to Dorothy even if when he says that, he's not specifically talking about Doro. There are a few things that make me say this, but it is primarily Dorothy's inherently selfish desires. The name Goddess was thrown onto Lilith and the squad in order to give hope to humanity, and the Goddess squad as a name still remained even today. So they quite literally did create a "Godlike entity". The reason I believe they removed the data they had was in the event one of the Goddesses decided to come back in seek of vengeance against the ark. Say for example Dorothy. If Dorothy's records and data of her achievements were still in the ark, it would be ludicrously easy for her to gain the support of the people, because she would be their Godlike entity and lead a revolution that would overthrow the central government and any branch of it we know of essentially throwing the ark into chaos. Hypothetically, if Doro and the rest of the Goddesses remained in the ark, Dorothy would have become this Godlike entity eventually because of her desires and her narcissistic personality. In that event I don't believe the rest of the squad would have supported her and a war likely would have broken out inside of the ark. Anyway, the things I wanted to address: The closest thing we have to Lilith that the ark created is Crown. As the two strongest Nikkes with ark origin: Marian and Rapi, both have gained their strength from outside their creation. Rapi gets hers whenever she got Red Hood's core transplanted inside of her and more specifically whenever she activates the overdrive state, and Marian gets hers when she turned into a Heretic and more specifically whatever happens to her in second affection and at the end of the Last Kingdom. From what I can remember, and I could be wrong because my memory is pretty terrible, Crown's strength and abilities comes from herself and not really an outside source. Lilith is not stronger than Anachiro. She just has a different type of strength. Don't get me wrong they're very relative, to the point that if she were with the Goddess squad against Anachiro at the end of Red Ash, they would have won without much difficulty. But Anachiro was not created to fight anything one on one or in close quarters, she was created to destroy as many raptures as possible as quickly as possible, that's the main reason she lost to Goddess to begin with. It's the main reason why instead of dodging Scarlet's blade and punching her to oblivion, she'll defend with her shield and try to create space to laser her. For Lilith to specialize in one on one close quarters combat, means that if Anachiro made the same mistake of underestimating the Goddess squad because they couldn't do anything to her in the sky, instead of Scarlet not being able to destroy Anachiro's shields, Lilith would shatter each one of them and leave her not only defenseless but essentially powerless, so she *would* win. She's just not stronger per se. The closest example we have relating to what I'm talking about is RH vs Scarlet. While Red Hood could output more power than her because of Wolfsbane, Scarlet still almost killed her while "clearly holding back".
@@Kuro_Archive The Naked King was originally an armor that can convert Alva particles into energy. But the Monk upgraded it and turned it into a WMD. However it needs to charge Alva particles for a very long time before it could be activated so it's actually also powered by raptures. As for Anachiro I wouldn't underestimate her ability to fight one-on-one, since a weakened Cinderella still managed to get a stalemate against Behemoth. And the fight against the goddesses isn't a one-on-one in the first place, they were coming at her from different directions, not giving her a room to breathe. And so she was forced into a defensive stance. What this actually shows is the difference in experience between Anachiro and the Goddess Squad. Because as Red Hood stated you need more than just solid specs to become a capable fighter, and experience is the one thing that Anachiro clearly lacks during Red Ash. That's why she started to panic the moment they started ganging up on her. And yes Cinderella was a fairy tale model designed by humans to annihilate multiple raptures at once. But Anachiro is the heretic version of Cinderella, she should be massively stronger than her regular fairy tale model self. So, if she really is relatively as strong as Lilith she shouldn't have lost against a weakened Goddess Squad + Red Hood, even if they have the advantage in terms of experience. If Lilith were in the same situation I'm sure she can easily deal with the goddess squad even though she's not specialized in fighting against multiple opponents at once. And if Anachiro were to fight Lilith, she would obviously never allow herself to give Lilith an opportunity to close the distance between them. Since she seems to respect Lilith's strength, that's why she only attacked once Lilith is gone. Or in the elevator battle where she chose to maintain her distance despite having a back up of over 200,000 raptures of various classifications. So unlike her battle against the Goddess Squad, a fight between Lilith and Anachiro is not about Anachiro trying to get away from Lilith, but Lilith trying to get close to Anachiro. A melee fighter closing the distance against a long range opponent who's bombarding her from way up is no easy feat. And the goddess squad commander obviously considered it in his calculations that Anachiro would be way up in the sky if she were to fight Lilith. He's the greatest commander in the history of mankind, so he would've consider a scenario where Anachiro has every advantage she could possibly have. And yet he's still confident that Lilith would win. As for the godlike entity, yes that's also what I'm considering. And I'm also considering maybe the people in the ark may have actually started a cult worshiping the Goddess Squad at one point. Because we know that there used to be a guy who was preaching about the goddess squad in the ark. And we know that cults can be really problematic.
@@TakenaShin I'm not underestimating her ability to fight one on one. I can't comment on her fight against Behemoth because my knowledge on that fight it is, "commander splashed behemoth with blood", "anachiro was awakened", "they fought and it was off screen but everyone survived". idk if the blood impacted behemoth, idk if anachiro was weakened or to what extent, and based on the fact everyone did survive it's likely safe to say cinderella won that. anachiro was forced into that defensive stance because she wasn't in her prime domain, as she was more close to the ground than she actually needed to be. And throughout the fight she never actually had to deal with more than two at a time to begin with, and was never injured until she was caught off guard by Snow White and shot at point blank range by RH, which she didn't even attempt to dodge, when we have seen her be able to do just moments ago; again showing the absolute confidence she had in her defensive abilities which was her downfall. She lost because she underestimated the Goddess squad and overestimated her defensive abilities, not because she wasn't relative to Lilith. So yes, Lilith would be able to deal with the Goddess squad because Lilith wouldn't underestimate them or rely on defense and because she specializes in cqc. And yes like i said lilith would beat Anachiro, but not because she's stronger. The difference in experience and skillsets between opponents *is* a genuine factor in the victories and losses in quite literally every single fight possible. A body builder fighting an MMA fighter in the same weight class would get humiliated despite being stronger because of the difference in experience. Becoming a Heretic does give a boost in power but the extent to which it does is completely unknown. It would be a fallacy to try and quantify it using someone like Modernia when the technology the raptures have available to them now should be drastically different to what it was back then. on top of that, Cinderella was only the first success of a nikke being turned into a heretic. Within Red ash we never saw her use any rapture tech or ability we've come to know from the heretics, mainly regeneration and a rapture form, just that she was corrupted. Cinderella as a Nikke was stated at the very beginning of the event, by Lilith, to be relative if not superior to her in terms of data, and when described to be able to clear the way for them to get to the elevator (which was a genuine concern because they didn't think they'd be able to do so without become significantly exhausted), Dorothy had a difficult time imagining someone as strong as Cinderella even *could* exist. To address your points about Cinderella being in the sky and the LC. Lilith has no genuine way of getting close to Anachiro if she's high up in the sky. I have no doubt that she could dodge Anachiro's beams, considering RH and Scarlet were both shown to be able to react to and dodge them, Scarlet even being able to do so in midair by altering the trajectory of the beam with her sword. But you'd need to give a valid way for Lilith to reach her, and that's something that can't be done, because it would assume that Anachiro wouldn't immediately fly away the moment Lilith's feet leave the ground. The most you'd get out of that situation is a stalemate. It makes a lot more sense for Anachiro to close the distance after being frustrated that she couldn't hit Lilith and rely on her defenses to guard herself which would be completely in character for Anachiro to do, giving Lilith a genuine win condition. Your points with the LC are completely disingenuous for three reasons. One, none of them would have had a grasp as to what Anachiro's full power was at that point in the story. Two, the LC has no experience dealing with something this strong. Three, their best bet was a one on one because that's what Lilith specializes in. As a melee fighter this would extend to cqc. There is nothing wrong with saying that Lilith would beat Anachiro in a fight, because I agree with you. I just disagree with the notion that Lilith is stronger much less that she dwarfs Anachiro in power because that's just disingenuous. Their fight and their gap in power is a lot closer than you're making it out to be.
@@Kuro_Archive So based on what you said, I think we can simply agree that the difference in experience and overconfidence is the main deciding factor in her fight against the Goddess Squad. Lilith mentioned that Anachiro's power has been enhanced to "unprecedented levels" after becoming a heretic, so Anachiro is indeed way stronger than regular Cindy. And the latest chapters implies that she is the strongest heretic. Lilith said that Cinderella likely exceeds her squad mates in terms of specs, and then she followed it with "perhaps even me". That's not confirmation that they're similar in strength, because saying "perhaps" means that Lilith is uncertain. And it was explicitly stated by the narrator much later, that even the cutting edge Grimms/fairy tale models are inferior copies of Lilith. So he pretty much confirmed that Cinderella is not equal to Lilith since Cinderella is also a fairy tale model. I'm not going to speculate on a hypothetical scenario of how Lilith is going to close the distance between them. Because just like Cinderella we also don't know the full extent of Lilith's power. But Lilith already confirmed it without hesitation that she can defeat Anachiro if she wasn't preoccupied with protecting her Squad. So it implies that she does have a way or at least an idea on how to close the distance between them at that time. I never claimed that the goddess squad commander knew the full extent of Anachiro's power. But that he's more likely to overestimate her than the opposite. And I'm not saying that Lilith dwarfs Anachiro in strength. Because if that's the case then they wouldn't have had to retreat. Anachiro is not going to be an easy opponent for Lilith, there's no doubt about it. But I don't agree that they are relatively equal in strength. But I guess this is one of the things that we should just agree to disagree.
@@TakenaShin I don't remember that statement from Lilith about the increase in strength from Anachiro so that's my bad. I'll reread the event soon. I personally see no reason why Lilith would even entertain the idea that there's a possibility she'd be surpassed off of those specs unless she believed they were relative. To treat all grimms models the same would also not be fair given the context of Cinderella's creation, since she was a joint project between the big three, which no other model has been stated to be. so in that regard she's already in a class of her own, different from the typical grimms. Thinking and speculating about how who'd win, while I believe to be interesting, isn't something I meant to focus on, because like I've said, I do believe Lilith would win no matter what. To that end I understand Lilith confidence when she says the only reason she didn't kill Anachiro was bc she was preoccupied defending Goddess. I should have been more clearer with the LC. Regardless of whether or not he'd overestimate or underestimate Cinderella is irrelevant because he said what he said from a place of faith in Lilith and her strengths, hence their "votes of confidence". I apologize if I came off as aggressive. Regardless of which between the two is more powerful, I do have them as 1 and 2 very comfortably in the game. I respect your opinion and if more is revealed about Lilith, I wouldn't mind at all placing her above Cindy. But until then, because Cindy has more feats, and because of my previous points, I can't in good faith say Lilith is more powerful even if she'd indisputably win in a fight, as I consider destructive abilities heavily when talking about strength. I'm sorry dragging you into this debate 😅
@@Kuro_Archive I think the reason why Lilith entertained the idea of Cinderella becoming stronger than her, is because of her limited lifespan. Because the way I see it, is that she was actually wishing that Cinderella is going to be stronger than her, after all we know that she wants to entrust the world/ the future of humanity to them once she's gone. So to me it's sort of like All Might to Deku in MHA or Gojo to his students in JJK (yeah I just wanted to insert another JJK reference). After all Lilith did confirm that the reason why she prioritized protecting her squad mates over fighting Anachiro is because they all have an "important duty". And don't worry, we've already had many conversations before so I know that you didn't mean come off as aggressive. And even though it's not my cup of tea, discussing about who's stronger is actually refreshing. And it's really nice that we can still be respectful of each other even on topics that we disagree. And based on the things we know from the latest chapters, I have a feeling that we're going to see Rapture Queen Lilith soon.
Wait, at the beginning of the game, did the Ark believe that the Goddess squad was still fighting on the surface? But this raises questions. Like why have the Nike who now go to the surface failed to *Encounter* them?
It's just that the surface is so vast and the Pioneer are always on the move because they are searching for clues about the Queen. So it's hard to encounter them even if you search for them.
The ark and its leaders has always been terrible and evil, especially if u do events that involve the goddess squad and other characters like old tales and scarlet’s event, geez that was sad, rose…..
May I suggest a topic for a theory video. I’ve been looking to see if anyone has any explanation for why some is the Nikkes are animal girls like Biscuit, Nero and Leona, idk if Poli and the Bunny girls count as animal girls, but they tend to refer to themselves as such so idk
@@daltooinewestwood6380 oh yeah that's a very interesting topic to explore. I don't have Leona though and I need to reread their events so it might take a bit of time before I could create a video about it.
@@kevinnezukojk8870 Currently, yes I think she can still be redeemed. And I also think that part of her wants to, she just needs to let go of the past and move on.
i hope she doesn't get fixed because as much i don't like Dorothy she's a good villain hell she Even straight up said that she won't forgive the humans so what is the point of you guys wanting her to be redeemed and possibly a harem candidate because i sure of heck don't.
@@RaymsJohnivanPVillegas you mean the Commander in Chief? Unfortunately we still don't know, my guess is he could be a really old Oswald or an entirely new character.
![The Grimm's Model Hiding in Plain Sight [Nikke Theory]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/X8oPr5VZB_E/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Grimm's Model Hiding in Plain Sight [Nikke Theory]](/img/tr.png)
![Evolution [Nikke Lore Theory]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GXhiKlIr_tE/mqdefault.jpg)
I like to think Oswald lied to both the goddess squad and the central government.
Not wanting the central government to rip the goddess squad apart to make a new generation of nikkes, he tricked them into staying on the surface so they'll live and then lied to central government about their fate so they wouldn't go hunting them down.
Your theory aged like fine wine
Man after Old Tales it sure changed everything
In my opinion another reason why they did took them out it is also because i don't really think that they would shut up and follow the orders of the Humans so that could leave a massive riot between Nikke and Human.
Especially how Human were told to use Nikke as tools for reclaiming the surface.
yup that's also a possibility.
The last line in that chpt 25 when Andersen utter Dorothy name when he is alone is obvious that he is the legendary commander kept alive by his built in life support hook to the ark powersource
A lot of factors got uncovered by Old Tales. So these are the most logical(unconfirmed by the way) reasons:
1. Central Gov can’t be trusted. With how desperate the CG can be at that time, Oswald probably knew that the Goddess squad would be subjected into experiments for Nikke development.
2. Nikke discrimination. Unfortunately due to Cinderella’s rampage, humans would fear Nikkes extremely and Oswald probably knew this as well so to prevent such hardships for the Goddesses, he lied to them to protect them from such animosity.
Real reason is the Goddess squad would take away from their power - the heroes and saviours of humanity would have alot of pull, and would be revered among the people similar to the church during medieval time. And would probably have as much influence, as the pope did in catholic kingdoms - where he could excommunicate, and take down kings. The Central goverment that's probly made up of powerhungry corpos, would never allow that.
Also getting corrupted is a factor, it’s why we don’t see nikkes as powerful as the pilgrims anymore due to that, sure, Eden is a different story but u get the point
People think that Grave is the same model as Pinne, but after this latest chapter, i'm kinda temptwd to think that Grave might actually be the name mass production model as Rapi. It would make for an interesting paralell if that was the case.
yeah, when grave said she has never met snow white before, it's basically impossible for grave to be pinne
just played Old Tales and looking back at OverZone/RedAsh its a rather tactical retreat
that leaves last deployed Nikkes in an unfortunate position of being abandoned
Lilith wasn't just the *last* line of Defence, but also the *first* line of Offence~ For Super Earth~!
Ahh yes... my Broken Queen... ill fix you if thats the last thing i do..
And my Lilimommy... once your banner releases... ShiftUp will own my soul..
Speaking of Lilith- rember how in her bond story Rapi talked about Proto-Nikkes? One build like Adam Smasher- with in-built weaponry and advanced sensors.
According to Rapi, they were much better than later, look-like-human Nikkes but were prone to mind switch due to non-human visage.
So- who do you think is stronger: Lilith or Proto-Nikke?
Another question... Who created Lilliwiess? Someone made her and then were never able to create another. Something must have aligned to allow her to be the strongest Nikke with all others merely being copies that ballistics and science gave power too.
After all, Partially corrupted RH tore Raptures apart with her bare hands, just like Lilli. Rapi in RH mode can go hand to hand with Raptures and Heretics. I can't recall any other Nikke who can go toe to toe except Scarlett, and she has to use her training and swordsmanship
@@davfree9732 I think that it is related to Overdrive. Lilith mentioned that her operational time was quite short for Nikke and she would die pretty soon. Rapi went Overdrive to tear heretics.
Maybe Lilith was basically Pilgrim that was set perpetually in Overdrive?
@@AndrCPC Lilith is no doubt stronger. After all Lilith is the origin of all Nikkes, so anything that can be classified as one is an inferior copy of her.
@@TakenaShin But isn't here an issue? We are told:
1. Human-looking were made after Inhuman-looking.
2. Lilith looks like a human.
So, she by definition isn't the very first Nikke ever. Only the first human-looking.
@@AndrCPC the game explicitly said that "Lilith is the first nikke" and Rapi never mentioned that those Nikkes weren't humanoid, or that they were created before Lilith. She just mentioned upgrades that can cause cognitive dissonance when installed to a Nikke.
Awesome video. Its a shame we barely got screen time of Lillith during Red Ash after disappearing in part 2. Hope that 2nd anniversary sheds some light on the events of Lillith and LC before her death
@@notsusatallok2304 yes, I'm also very curious about their secret mission.
Liliweiss: nah i'd win
Congratulations for the 1k follower
I think it's just as simple as what Oswald said, once the the Ark is closed it can never be opened. Atleast, during that time. They needed to leave the Goddess Squad on the surface to buy them sometime with the closing of the Ark. The sealing of the Ark took some time i don't remember if it was days or weeks.
Bro keep on doing these videos, because me and my friends (simply just only me) have watched your videos constantly every upload. Keep up the content and i promise you that many will tune in and watch till the end, like i did.
Also tip: try adding some bgm if possible the ones used in the game. XD Luv this vids and i cannot wait for the next episode theory.
@@saeukanoch.8166 thanks for always tuning in. And yeah you're right I really should add bgms in the videos. I'll be sure to do it from now on, Thanks!
13:26 bro really tryna rival the biggest Lilith glazer im dead 🤣
A Lilith glazer is a plus in my book. Take my upvote!
Jokes aside, good video as always. I still hope you gain more recognition over the time. I'm really hyped for the day the writers reveal more about the past.
The question why the abandonment needs to bring more questions in the future
Aye. The phrase ‘once the ark is sealed it cannot be reopened’ hardly holds true with elevators taking squads up to the surface on the regular.
Then again… what we dub ‘the ark’ might not be ‘the’ ark… I wonder if RH discovered the real ark in the hub of what the structures surrounding it are?
Trophy’s discovery. Harmony cubes. RH’s discovery. NIKKE’s as a fuel source for Raptures… I wonder if Oswald wasn’t doing Goddess squad a favour by keeping what few NIKKE’s were left out of the Ark, necessitating the development of mass produced NIKKE’s.
… Though even if Oswald saved Goddess by keeping them away from the Ark… he essentially traded the lives of thousands of women turned into NIKKE’s for his heroes.
@@davfree9732lol all of the goddess squad members ended up entering the ark later on.
it's pretty funny in hindsight how dorothy made such a big deal out of not being allowed to officially enter the ark as a squad in overzone.
@@Yopee yeah that's true, specially for Scarlet who always visits to have a drink with us.
@@TakenaShin it's always made me wonder why the raptures haven't also entered/invaded the ark until nihilister.
i can understand that chatterbox could have enough pull to keep the weaker regular raptures away for his deal with enikk, but heretics? no way
and since indivilia is inside the ark already (as chopped up pieces of material h) plus the ark's power generator also potentially being a heretic/rapture, it seems weird for other heretics not to do anything to the ark until nihilister.
it's like both dorothy and the heretics just decided not to touch the ark for some reason.
@@Yopee That's a very good point, the only explanation I can think of right now for the heretics, is if it was mandated by the Queen to not attack the Ark. But that just opens more questions tbh. Hopefully we'll find out the true reason soon.
Pov:Remember cod mw2 2023 shadows Company. 💀
Good vid dude ty, def subbing
Imo, Oswald gets way too much slack from the fans.
Idc for all the good he did, that lie undid it all.
Is Guilty like stupid strong? She has to actively try not to destroy everything around her with her immense strength.
Red Hood alone would cause problems. Imagine the Arc seeing the second strongest goddess corrupted thats a problem
Yeah, and it almost happened when Red Hood encountered Freesia's group. Good thing Red Hood was able to suppress her corruption at that time.
Just one photo of Red Hood's fist through the chest of some child. Oof.
What would humans even do at that point. Can't fight raptures without Nikkes, can't create new Nikkes because corruption is now publicly known. What little hope we have at the time would have completely faded. They'd have sat in the ark and just faded away.
Man, they should do "What-If" sidestories.
Amazing video as per usual, but there were a few things you brought up that I kind of wanted to address. None of it even remotely damages this theory though. Before I get into that however, I did wanna offer my perspective on what you talked about. I think what Burningum mentioned of not wanting to create or manifest a Godlike entity specifically pertains to Dorothy even if when he says that, he's not specifically talking about Doro. There are a few things that make me say this, but it is primarily Dorothy's inherently selfish desires. The name Goddess was thrown onto Lilith and the squad in order to give hope to humanity, and the Goddess squad as a name still remained even today. So they quite literally did create a "Godlike entity". The reason I believe they removed the data they had was in the event one of the Goddesses decided to come back in seek of vengeance against the ark. Say for example Dorothy. If Dorothy's records and data of her achievements were still in the ark, it would be ludicrously easy for her to gain the support of the people, because she would be their Godlike entity and lead a revolution that would overthrow the central government and any branch of it we know of essentially throwing the ark into chaos. Hypothetically, if Doro and the rest of the Goddesses remained in the ark, Dorothy would have become this Godlike entity eventually because of her desires and her narcissistic personality. In that event I don't believe the rest of the squad would have supported her and a war likely would have broken out inside of the ark.
Anyway, the things I wanted to address:
The closest thing we have to Lilith that the ark created is Crown. As the two strongest Nikkes with ark origin: Marian and Rapi, both have gained their strength from outside their creation. Rapi gets hers whenever she got Red Hood's core transplanted inside of her and more specifically whenever she activates the overdrive state, and Marian gets hers when she turned into a Heretic and more specifically whatever happens to her in second affection and at the end of the Last Kingdom. From what I can remember, and I could be wrong because my memory is pretty terrible, Crown's strength and abilities comes from herself and not really an outside source.
Lilith is not stronger than Anachiro. She just has a different type of strength. Don't get me wrong they're very relative, to the point that if she were with the Goddess squad against Anachiro at the end of Red Ash, they would have won without much difficulty. But Anachiro was not created to fight anything one on one or in close quarters, she was created to destroy as many raptures as possible as quickly as possible, that's the main reason she lost to Goddess to begin with. It's the main reason why instead of dodging Scarlet's blade and punching her to oblivion, she'll defend with her shield and try to create space to laser her. For Lilith to specialize in one on one close quarters combat, means that if Anachiro made the same mistake of underestimating the Goddess squad because they couldn't do anything to her in the sky, instead of Scarlet not being able to destroy Anachiro's shields, Lilith would shatter each one of them and leave her not only defenseless but essentially powerless, so she *would* win. She's just not stronger per se. The closest example we have relating to what I'm talking about is RH vs Scarlet. While Red Hood could output more power than her because of Wolfsbane, Scarlet still almost killed her while "clearly holding back".
@@Kuro_Archive The Naked King was originally an armor that can convert Alva particles into energy. But the Monk upgraded it and turned it into a WMD. However it needs to charge Alva particles for a very long time before it could be activated so it's actually also powered by raptures.
As for Anachiro I wouldn't underestimate her ability to fight one-on-one, since a weakened Cinderella still managed to get a stalemate against Behemoth. And the fight against the goddesses isn't a one-on-one in the first place, they were coming at her from different directions, not giving her a room to breathe. And so she was forced into a defensive stance.
What this actually shows is the difference in experience between Anachiro and the Goddess Squad. Because as Red Hood stated you need more than just solid specs to become a capable fighter, and experience is the one thing that Anachiro clearly lacks during Red Ash. That's why she started to panic the moment they started ganging up on her.
And yes Cinderella was a fairy tale model designed by humans to annihilate multiple raptures at once. But Anachiro is the heretic version of Cinderella, she should be massively stronger than her regular fairy tale model self. So, if she really is relatively as strong as Lilith she shouldn't have lost against a weakened Goddess Squad + Red Hood, even if they have the advantage in terms of experience.
If Lilith were in the same situation I'm sure she can easily deal with the goddess squad even though she's not specialized in fighting against multiple opponents at once.
And if Anachiro were to fight Lilith, she would obviously never allow herself to give Lilith an opportunity to close the distance between them. Since she seems to respect Lilith's strength, that's why she only attacked once Lilith is gone. Or in the elevator battle where she chose to maintain her distance despite having a back up of over 200,000 raptures of various classifications.
So unlike her battle against the Goddess Squad, a fight between Lilith and Anachiro is not about Anachiro trying to get away from Lilith, but Lilith trying to get close to Anachiro. A melee fighter closing the distance against a long range opponent who's bombarding her from way up is no easy feat.
And the goddess squad commander obviously considered it in his calculations that Anachiro would be way up in the sky if she were to fight Lilith. He's the greatest commander in the history of mankind, so he would've consider a scenario where Anachiro has every advantage she could possibly have. And yet he's still confident that Lilith would win.
As for the godlike entity, yes that's also what I'm considering. And I'm also considering maybe the people in the ark may have actually started a cult worshiping the Goddess Squad at one point. Because we know that there used to be a guy who was preaching about the goddess squad in the ark. And we know that cults can be really problematic.
@@TakenaShin I'm not underestimating her ability to fight one on one. I can't comment on her fight against Behemoth because my knowledge on that fight it is, "commander splashed behemoth with blood", "anachiro was awakened", "they fought and it was off screen but everyone survived". idk if the blood impacted behemoth, idk if anachiro was weakened or to what extent, and based on the fact everyone did survive it's likely safe to say cinderella won that.
anachiro was forced into that defensive stance because she wasn't in her prime domain, as she was more close to the ground than she actually needed to be. And throughout the fight she never actually had to deal with more than two at a time to begin with, and was never injured until she was caught off guard by Snow White and shot at point blank range by RH, which she didn't even attempt to dodge, when we have seen her be able to do just moments ago; again showing the absolute confidence she had in her defensive abilities which was her downfall. She lost because she underestimated the Goddess squad and overestimated her defensive abilities, not because she wasn't relative to Lilith. So yes, Lilith would be able to deal with the Goddess squad because Lilith wouldn't underestimate them or rely on defense and because she specializes in cqc. And yes like i said lilith would beat Anachiro, but not because she's stronger. The difference in experience and skillsets between opponents *is* a genuine factor in the victories and losses in quite literally every single fight possible. A body builder fighting an MMA fighter in the same weight class would get humiliated despite being stronger because of the difference in experience.
Becoming a Heretic does give a boost in power but the extent to which it does is completely unknown. It would be a fallacy to try and quantify it using someone like Modernia when the technology the raptures have available to them now should be drastically different to what it was back then. on top of that, Cinderella was only the first success of a nikke being turned into a heretic. Within Red ash we never saw her use any rapture tech or ability we've come to know from the heretics, mainly regeneration and a rapture form, just that she was corrupted.
Cinderella as a Nikke was stated at the very beginning of the event, by Lilith, to be relative if not superior to her in terms of data, and when described to be able to clear the way for them to get to the elevator (which was a genuine concern because they didn't think they'd be able to do so without become significantly exhausted), Dorothy had a difficult time imagining someone as strong as Cinderella even *could* exist.
To address your points about Cinderella being in the sky and the LC. Lilith has no genuine way of getting close to Anachiro if she's high up in the sky. I have no doubt that she could dodge Anachiro's beams, considering RH and Scarlet were both shown to be able to react to and dodge them, Scarlet even being able to do so in midair by altering the trajectory of the beam with her sword. But you'd need to give a valid way for Lilith to reach her, and that's something that can't be done, because it would assume that Anachiro wouldn't immediately fly away the moment Lilith's feet leave the ground. The most you'd get out of that situation is a stalemate. It makes a lot more sense for Anachiro to close the distance after being frustrated that she couldn't hit Lilith and rely on her defenses to guard herself which would be completely in character for Anachiro to do, giving Lilith a genuine win condition. Your points with the LC are completely disingenuous for three reasons. One, none of them would have had a grasp as to what Anachiro's full power was at that point in the story. Two, the LC has no experience dealing with something this strong. Three, their best bet was a one on one because that's what Lilith specializes in. As a melee fighter this would extend to cqc.
There is nothing wrong with saying that Lilith would beat Anachiro in a fight, because I agree with you. I just disagree with the notion that Lilith is stronger much less that she dwarfs Anachiro in power because that's just disingenuous. Their fight and their gap in power is a lot closer than you're making it out to be.
@@Kuro_Archive So based on what you said, I think we can simply agree that the difference in experience and overconfidence is the main deciding factor in her fight against the Goddess Squad.
Lilith mentioned that Anachiro's power has been enhanced to "unprecedented levels" after becoming a heretic, so Anachiro is indeed way stronger than regular Cindy. And the latest chapters implies that she is the strongest heretic.
Lilith said that Cinderella likely exceeds her squad mates in terms of specs, and then she followed it with "perhaps even me". That's not confirmation that they're similar in strength, because saying "perhaps" means that Lilith is uncertain. And it was explicitly stated by the narrator much later, that even the cutting edge Grimms/fairy tale models are inferior copies of Lilith. So he pretty much confirmed that Cinderella is not equal to Lilith since Cinderella is also a fairy tale model.
I'm not going to speculate on a hypothetical scenario of how Lilith is going to close the distance between them. Because just like Cinderella we also don't know the full extent of Lilith's power. But Lilith already confirmed it without hesitation that she can defeat Anachiro if she wasn't preoccupied with protecting her Squad. So it implies that she does have a way or at least an idea on how to close the distance between them at that time.
I never claimed that the goddess squad commander knew the full extent of Anachiro's power. But that he's more likely to overestimate her than the opposite.
And I'm not saying that Lilith dwarfs Anachiro in strength. Because if that's the case then they wouldn't have had to retreat. Anachiro is not going to be an easy opponent for Lilith, there's no doubt about it. But I don't agree that they are relatively equal in strength.
But I guess this is one of the things that we should just agree to disagree.
@@TakenaShin I don't remember that statement from Lilith about the increase in strength from Anachiro so that's my bad. I'll reread the event soon.
I personally see no reason why Lilith would even entertain the idea that there's a possibility she'd be surpassed off of those specs unless she believed they were relative. To treat all grimms models the same would also not be fair given the context of Cinderella's creation, since she was a joint project between the big three, which no other model has been stated to be. so in that regard she's already in a class of her own, different from the typical grimms.
Thinking and speculating about how who'd win, while I believe to be interesting, isn't something I meant to focus on, because like I've said, I do believe Lilith would win no matter what. To that end I understand Lilith confidence when she says the only reason she didn't kill Anachiro was bc she was preoccupied defending Goddess.
I should have been more clearer with the LC. Regardless of whether or not he'd overestimate or underestimate Cinderella is irrelevant because he said what he said from a place of faith in Lilith and her strengths, hence their "votes of confidence".
I apologize if I came off as aggressive. Regardless of which between the two is more powerful, I do have them as 1 and 2 very comfortably in the game. I respect your opinion and if more is revealed about Lilith, I wouldn't mind at all placing her above Cindy. But until then, because Cindy has more feats, and because of my previous points, I can't in good faith say Lilith is more powerful even if she'd indisputably win in a fight, as I consider destructive abilities heavily when talking about strength. I'm sorry dragging you into this debate 😅
@@Kuro_Archive I think the reason why Lilith entertained the idea of Cinderella becoming stronger than her, is because of her limited lifespan. Because the way I see it, is that she was actually wishing that Cinderella is going to be stronger than her, after all we know that she wants to entrust the world/ the future of humanity to them once she's gone. So to me it's sort of like All Might to Deku in MHA or Gojo to his students in JJK (yeah I just wanted to insert another JJK reference). After all Lilith did confirm that the reason why she prioritized protecting her squad mates over fighting Anachiro is because they all have an "important duty".
And don't worry, we've already had many conversations before so I know that you didn't mean come off as aggressive. And even though it's not my cup of tea, discussing about who's stronger is actually refreshing. And it's really nice that we can still be respectful of each other even on topics that we disagree.
And based on the things we know from the latest chapters, I have a feeling that we're going to see Rapture Queen Lilith soon.
Wait, at the beginning of the game, did the Ark believe that the Goddess squad was still fighting on the surface?
But this raises questions. Like why have the Nike who now go to the surface failed to *Encounter* them?
It's just that the surface is so vast and the Pioneer are always on the move because they are searching for clues about the Queen. So it's hard to encounter them even if you search for them.
The ark and its leaders has always been terrible and evil, especially if u do events that involve the goddess squad and other characters like old tales and scarlet’s event, geez that was sad, rose…..
May I suggest a topic for a theory video. I’ve been looking to see if anyone has any explanation for why some is the Nikkes are animal girls like Biscuit, Nero and Leona, idk if Poli and the Bunny girls count as animal girls, but they tend to refer to themselves as such so idk
@@daltooinewestwood6380 oh yeah that's a very interesting topic to explore. I don't have Leona though and I need to reread their events so it might take a bit of time before I could create a video about it.
@@TakenaShin no rush, I’ve just never seen anyone else talking about it
Do you think that Dorothy deserves a redemption arc or she can't be fixed.
I can fix her
she is like grave but with a terrible attitude so kinda hard to say.
@@kevinnezukojk8870 Currently, yes I think she can still be redeemed. And I also think that part of her wants to, she just needs to let go of the past and move on.
She can be fixed
i hope she doesn't get fixed because as much i don't like Dorothy she's a good villain hell she Even straight up said that she won't forgive the humans so what is the point of you guys wanting her to be redeemed and possibly a harem candidate because i sure of heck don't.
Who is the evil president the art and nikke 🤔🤔🤔🤔
@@RaymsJohnivanPVillegas you mean the Commander in Chief? Unfortunately we still don't know, my guess is he could be a really old Oswald or an entirely new character.