Maybe it's because I'm older, but I find that because the zombies are so fast, I don't take as much time to observe the small details in the games' environments anymore.
THANK YOU, I told my cousin why i couldn't enjoy bo3 as much as he did because why the f are zombies running on round 2, i hate how hectic they are but it's fine because you have 3 hits instead of 2, WTF is that type of excuse
Zombies don’t run till round 4 and that’s only when it’s the last zombies and it’s 3 hits cuz the zombies go faster, y would you want it to be 2 with fast zombies and all zombies don’t start running till round 16 to 17
The one thing that ruins bo3 for me is that the zombies can hit you with zero wind up, all they have to do is run into you to get insanely hit. Pretty much the reason why I use the all-around enchantment mod to bump the health up to 200 (300 with jug), or the T6 mod to revert the ai back to bo2
Bo4 zombies is even worse. Sure they don't hit as fast, but they spawn in faster and run faster. Also, from what I remember, the zombies in bo4 used to hit faster than bo3. However, it was patched. This is the reason why I played bo4 on custom mutations. Also, if you leave a zombie alive for to long on some maps, dogs spawn in. The zombie ai in bo4 is even worse. It's nuts.
@Vitamins152 no, the health in bo4 was originally 3 hits but they patched it to 4. I think because the zombies actually react to being shot or hit with weapons, as in they stagger and stumble, you can avoid being trapped or insta downed like bo3.
In my case not just bo3, but even Cold War and vanguard had the same issue of commando pro zombies, and mwz also and on top of that tier 3 has tranzit sprinters
@CJSanta I guess, but the sprint speed of the zombies in bo4 is insane. Especially after round 55 as you stated in the video. Not only that, if you play the aether maps in bo4 and leave the last zombie alive for a certain amount of time, dogs spawn in. Dogs in bo4 are easy to kill, but insanely fast and hit fast. But, yes bo3 zombies swipe faster. I do like bo3 zombies as it is my most favorite, 2nd is bo1. But, yeah the swipe speed is too insane in bo3.
This is exactly why I don't play chronicles. The zombies on bo3 hit you way too fast. I'd rather play the og version of the chronicles maps on their respective games.
i dont play chronicles because the odd bugs on the maps that werent there in the originals (slower mud on origins compared to bo2, baby gun doesnt work right, etc)
I think Treyarch sees that the average zombies player is a warzone guy trying to rank up his guns so unfortunately that’s what the mode is catered to. With the faster pace the nerds can rank up their guns faster before buying a 60 dollar King Kong fist. Really sad because I think the mode has the potential to be its own franchise and be much more successful than warzone. Once Warzone dies completely maybe we’ll get more of an original experience 🤷♂️
It's weird cuz the hit speed is so much higher, but the games feel so much easier cuz of all the other changes. Sometimes with the right weapons and double tap 2.0 and gobblegums you just feel like, "I'm never gonna naturally go down unless I do a challenge or something."
People who disagree and say skill issue because they think bo3 is peak when literally it’s easy also everything’s given to them and there being spoon fed. They just can’t handle other people’s opinions
This is a point that I don't see talked about. The intent made sense to make the mode harder because players became better. But the casual side of things fall out because of the difficulty. The crazy moments where players have to juke their way out of situations is impossible in the newer games simply because the zombies track you too quickly. And the difficulty option doesn't work well in practice as we've seen in both BO2 and BO4. I think BO4 and CW really surmised it since you can get to round 100 in under 5 hours (BO3 with some gobblegums in certain cases). And MW3 is an absolute nightmare Tier 3. You can't even outrun them (I believe CW had that problem too). There is no sit-down casual setting anymore. Glad to see a video like this with some light.
If they wanted to make the game harder then they could've made harder maps like Five or Shang more often. The community never sees the difficulty as an issue because they're too busy camping in corners with overpowered setups. The community HATES difficulty, hence why fan favorites are always the maps you can be overpowered on
Okay I thought it was just me who found it insane. People always say BO3 is the best zombies and I have to disagree. I hate the AI and how fast they swing, it makes sense why Widow's Wine was the only new perk on that game.
I felt I've been gaslit by the bo3 community into NOT thinking this was a problem 😅 But I knew it was bad the FIRST MATCH I played back in November of 2015.
The fast hit speed is the only thing that i think stinks in BO3 and that's why I haven't done any of the ees besides the Giant. They just hit too fast like they're Sonic the hedgehog and even if you get better at the game you still die instantly sometimes to the zombies when you're in the corner unless you have the gobblegums or a op Wonder weapon. And that's why the ees are too hard for me solo but I will complete them someday.
Black ops 4 also has really hard ees too I know I won't be able to complete blood of the dead or dead of the night's any time soon mostly because of the same reason
I always wished instead of a faster game, the amout of zombies would increase past the limit. If not, then implement these changes as the rounds progress. Like round 10 zombies respawn, round 15 zombies get faster, etc etc. the beginning of a game matters so much. If its too fast and aggressive, players feel like they cant get anything done and so interest.
I find appreciation for both the WaW/BO1 style of zombie speed and progression, while also enjoying the rampage inducer introduced later on in Cold War’s lifespan. Really hoping for a return to form in BO5 🙏🏽
Thank you for talking about this. I've brought up how BS BO3 is in other comment sections but everybody just says I'm crazy. The three main issues with this game are: >Zombie aggression and speed >Players can no longer jump (or even strafe jump) without facing major speed penalties >Zombies are no longer able to clip through each other The average BO3 player doesn't notice these issues because they never try to train and I don't blame them at all. Why train in a game that's heavily designed around camping? Every map has a lingering AOE wonder weapon which is perfect for sitting in a corner till round 100 when you use gumballs. Every map features Verruckt sprinter equivalents (the ones that lean forward when they run). Every map has annoying additional enemies designed to trap you. When the game is too hard to play as a sandbox mode then players will only use a single strategy. Remove crutches like camping wonder weapons and shields and the people would be up in arms about this game in a heartbeat IMO BO1 had it perfect in terms of pacing. Zombies would gradually increase in speed until round 10 where they would all be runners, there were no progression skipping cheat mechanics, certain rooms were fast and chaotic like BO2+ and other rooms were slow and methodical, there were no quests that forced you out of the main gameplay loop to get a wonder weapon necessary for progressing, jug was neither too far away or too close. Idk why they didn't keep it like that, I guess it all started when Jimmy Z started cooking too hard on Tranzit Also a little on the despawn mechanic because what you said isn't entirely true. COTD was the first map to have the despawn based on distance mechanic. The catch is that only undamaged zombies would respawn, the damaged ones like crawlers wouldn't despawn (as it should be). Shang and Moon followed the same rules
@@ebstool6885 camping will be effective untill like round 30 at which by then reloading lack of ammo or simply the zombie hp will make that strategy not viable, most of the maps dont have a comfortable camping position (the catwalk in the giant being the only good camping spot i can think of in the base game) Now in my opinion the training experience is actually quite enjoyable thanks to the slide Yes there is some bs downs thanks to the hit speed but they are more of a slight annoyance rather than a constant problem unlike other issues in other games (The lack of ammo in bo1 weapons being a good example)
@@dazth3legend670You can get to round 100 on DE, Moon, Revelations and Origins purely by camping with the wonderweapon. In fact they’re the most effective and fastest strategy to do so.
It takes some getting used to but the players have been sped up. I do like the gradual dreadful progression of the old games, but I also like the anxiety of needing to go faster to stay ahead of the zombies.
This is exactly why BO1 will always be my favorite zombies, the perfect grounded, barebones elements combined with the ever evolving gamemode changes that came with it were just peak IMO
I don’t know why, but that high pitched, supernatural cry the zombies make always gets me into the game, and kind of fills me with awe of how well kino der toten was created. The Easter eggs, the boxes with knocking, the Chandeliers, the teleporter rooms, the tapes you can play.
“Oh hey what if we decide to make a despawn mechanic in the same game we decide to make the maps borderline unplayable if you don’t set up with a last zombie?” Seriously who’s fucking idea was this? Then the next game: “Oh yea and let’s make that single last zombie a crazy threat. Like enough to kill you if it sneaks up behind you even with jugg.” These 2 mechanics combined absolutely killed any chance of playing/introducing black ops 3 with casuals. Every time I try and get friends involved the set up is so god damn hard because before you get a zombie shield, that one last zombie will either despawn due to the mechanics, or it’ll be killed by a teammate because he suddenly got red screened even though he’s running a good train. I’m kinda a firm believer that the blops 3 zombies are straight up designed with the players all having jugg, widows wine, and a zombie shield
TRIGGER WARNING - HOT TAKE: Bo3 is where they started to stray from the og zombies formula with Gobblegums and if it werent for Bo3 doing this, the game would have kept some soul...
It wasn't just the gums. They made every fucking map a quest to do anything. I'm all for complicated easter eggs but having them forced upon you is awful. Does anyone actually enjoying feeding dogs on mob where they take 10 full seconds to eat a single zombie? It's boring and takes you out of the game
You know you can just….NOT use them right? Noone is holding a gun to your head telling you to use them. And you can easily find people who want to play normal games without them
@@smugplush I get it from the context of someone who just has 90 minutes or so to play and wants to hop on a match once a month...but to anyone else that plays or has played regularly these maps are a godawful experience @rs07scrapeNews that's not an argument. It's not on the player to avoid poor game design. The devs gave you a mod menu and you've turned it into a crutch
the waw/bo1 games have the creepy setting, but in bo3 i feel scared and like on my edge because like you said all it takes is like a second to go down.
Super sprinters are one of the worst things about zombies. I honestly don't have any clue how anyone can enjoy it. Yeah whatever it gets you right into the action with the TikTok attention span crowd but in reality it basically FORCES a player to adopt some sort of camping strat. Unlike the older games where high rounds was about endurance and decision making, newer zombies is just about spamming and being able to upkeep your armor that keeps getting unfairly depleted by ranged attacks, special enemy spam, meat throwers even though you're not out of bounds, and insane hit speeds. It really does feel like most times you're gonna get hit regardless and theres nothing you can do about it in the newer games to the point that it gets really annoying hearing the sound of armor breaking knowing that there really was no way to avoid it. Same can be said about the BO4 shield, that thing seems like it breaks so quickly without victorious due to the hit speed because with the hit speed you really can't juke zombies in BO4 without them at least still managing to hit your shield once or twice just due to the speed they swing. At that point I'm better off turning towards the zombies so they take a hit of health instead of damaging the shield (a decision that the armor system doesn't grant)
I just talked about this with a friend. The game balance was fine until bo3. I think the only way they can fix it now is getting rid of super sprinters and zombies doing the same damage the entire game again. I don’t care about getting double swiped early round as long as I’m not going to have to play the game on crack after round 35
Hey thanks for the video! I was surprised you didn’t bring up that, at least in BO2 (unsure if it’s in BO3), the zombie’s move speed was faster that your movement speed. It was really annoying and added unnecessary stress to things.
I don't know if that's true, I've been on a Tranzit high round quest lately, and because you can't sprint with the jetgun I've been walking with it out. I'm able to walk a train of zombies fairly easily. Unless one spawns ahead of me.
I do wish the actual damage was more gradual & not a sharp increase on set rounds if every round their damage went up by a small amount per round that'd be better. Cause unless you know the game inside & out, you'd be wondering why after round 47 or whatever it is they are annihilating you
I think introducing a proper thought out difficulty system of some form would honestly do zombies wonders for appealing to all kinds of players. I enjoy the fast-paced cluster fuck of the modern games, as do many others, but sometimes I also can't be bothered to deal with super sprinters and two hit kills without armour and would like a calmer game. I imagine it'd be very difficult to strike the right balance between each difficulty, but if implemented well (unlike BO4 which is just silly) I could only see it being healthy in the long run. Bring back custom mutations would also help in being able to build a perfect playing environment for each individual player, just as long as you can save presets and actually complete easter eggs. If they're going to introduce a bunch of new mechanics to the game, especially when so many of them can be potentially alienating, giving the player more customisability in how they play would only be an upside. The mode's already very sandboxy as is, just play into it more.
the fast hit speed goes hand and hand with the problem for players like me who have never done most of the ees before who almost always play on solo because we always get to the 20s or 30s even before the final step/boss fight no matter how slow we take it or even with a guide. So the zombies will always kill you no matter what you do on solo even though there's less zombies
I absolutely understand why you say these things, I often love to play the old maps because of atmospheric feel they have, even Shangri-la a harder map still has that beautiful tone to the beginning rounds, also I love Verrcukt as it was a test map with their faster runners it’s a insane map for a reason. which is why too it’s scary. But yea the zombies being faster in general ruins that feel they first had and their maps because they all feel the same.
As someone who played a lot of the newer games first and went back to the older games afterwards, it's hard to agree with a lot of these points. a lot of the changes Cold War specifically made "cut the fluff" of a lot of older zombies titles. Especially in early rounds there was a lot of wasted time waiting for all the zombies to finally reach you and a place you can kill them. The starting weapon is basically useless and forces you to roll the box or buy some temporary wall weapon. Personally I start CW matches with a 1911 to mimic the older games because if i'm skilled enough I can actually take it to high rounds (although I don't do this as much since I play more for camo challenges) I do agree that in high rounds things get a little too fast and I prefer high rounding on older games, but with the perks and armor the newer games give, it's alot easier to high round those. You're absolutely correct about BO3 though, I always knew there was something weird about taking damage in that game, great video overall.
If you have BO3 on PC I recommend trying a mod called T6 which changes the zombie ai to mimic that of black ops 2, along with classic movement & bo2 weapons. If you ever get the chance to try it out I’d love to hear your thoughts on how it improved general gameplay on bo3 maps. Edit: as much as I prefer the older zombies progression speed the truth of it is most people including myself simply have too busy of a life to put anymore than I’d say 1-2hrs into a zombies match. Nacht is near unplayable for me just because of how long it takes so I have to resort to using a mod to make the base speed sprinters. Immersion is pointless if I have to pause to go to work as soon as the game starts to get interesting.
This is actually extremely relatable. Waw, bo1, bo2, and bo3 are basically the only cods with zombies on the ps3. Waw and bo1 are both fun to play. Bo2 zombies gets old really fast and has a cheating problem. And bo3 doesn't even have its campaign on the ps3 yet so it's safe to assume that there are almost no patches and the hit speed is much worse. If you were to play zombies on any of the other games I listed and then on bo3, things would get so much more unnecessarily complicated and difficult for you despite what you might think
Bo2 will forever be my favorite when it comes to how the Zombies move. Just slow enough to be able to weave out of incredibly tight situations but fast enough that they still keep you on your toes. Anyways, great video was always Mr. Claus.
I actually dont mind the speed. I dont care if they hit super fast, it makes sense that you shouldnt be standing next to a zombie for 2 whole seconds 😅 As for the movement speed tho, while i dont hate it for gameplay, i think if they werent so fast the maps(especially in bo4) would feel a lot better
you didnt mention how the zombies die or respawn if you move a few feet away or look away for a little too long starting in bo3. it was a problem in bo2 too but I only found it frustrating on mob tbh.
I do think that you’ve made a great point about the shooter genre’s development in entirety. Shooters have gone up in pace for the past 10 years, be this CoD, Titanfall , or even Doom 2016’s fault. Battlefield now has a tac sprint, Halo has a dedicated sprint, etc. And this modern pace runs antithetical to the flow of the core experience previous titles had. Surprisingly the only shooter I’ve noticed retain its feel through the years is Gears of war
I've personally never had the hit speed "issue" ever concern me. I felt like that's why everything was increased in speed. Player slide hopping, 6 hit juggernog, the shield in every map to protect back hits, and widows wine being an optional perk to take, but not mandatory. I have played bo3 easily without the shield or widows with no trouble
Jug isn't 6 hits in BO3. It's 5 just like every game before it. Slide hopping is the same speed as sprinting, it's not a buff to a player's ability to dodge. Widows wine makes training much more annoying. The old system was never an issue, they changed it to compensate for 3 hits because the 12 year olds couldn't stop getting windmilled on round 3. Instead of ignoring the underage audience Jason Blundell decided to punish everyone
This complaint is literally a skillcheck. Maybe if you just normal sprint and dont slidehop its an issue but im at the point where my brain is incapable of not slidehoping which has ruined all other cod zombies gor me
@@waltersaffron5858 slide hopping isnt just as fast as sprinting. Also without staminup you have a limit to how long you can sprint. Even without staminup you can slide hop as much as you want with 0 penalty
@@rs07scapeNews So then why don't you tell me how fast it is since you clearly know more than me? You can't slide hop around corners or while training either...I think you're just a secondary
i don't mind super sprinters that much but i hate the fact that in cold war onwards, they do so much damage to the point where you can get 1 hit with full armor and jug. it makes jug and armor pointless in high rounds.
Call me old fashioned, but I think the first time they implemented Jug in Verruckt was the best. There would be times it would take six zombies windmilling you in order to get you down. What's not to like?
I think Black Ops 3 is the most balanced for the Speed / Pace of the match yes they respawn fast when you get far away but if you keep running you'll never be hit. Also, the movement speed for most guns are the same, holding a LMG's versus an AR is the same movement speed funnily. The 3 Hit Down System really benefited the higher attack speed, but you had shields in most maps to counter this. In BO4 they ruined a any down time with supersprinters & if you dare look in a meter away from a zombie it'd respawn closer.
Fun fact, the level of aggression bo3 zombies have has caused me to legitimately dislike it. I love the maps, the weapons, the eggs, the story. But the actual zombies feel like shit. Sure, you only get a second or 2, but in bo1-bo2 you genuinely get a few seconds to make a quick choice. In bo3, if there are 2 or 3 zombies near you and you have no shield, you're dead. No weapon swap, no movement tricks, you're just instantly dead. Bo1-Bo2 feel like it's skill first. In Bo3, it feels like its EQUIPMENT first.
I’m so glad to hear someone else agree about the ai in bo3. I’ve brought it up before and it got claimed to be a skill issue and I’m like how. One time I was playing The Giant and I got insta-downed from two zombies behind me with jug and not only does that map not have a shield (just like the other WaW-Bo1 remasters) but it’s also the only one without Widow’s Wine. Bo3 is still my favorite zombies game and I really enjoy all of the maps and the addition of chronicles but the ai was rough imo.
I’m glad i’m not the only one who didn’t really enjoy Black Ops 3. It was fun, and I had very fond memories with friends, but I don’t think I would enjoy it solo today
I think the best possible option to please everyone is to simply give us the option between the two types of zombies. Slow and methodical or fast and hectic.
@Fckituppp it's not a matter of skill, it's a matter of data. The zombies hit faster in bo3, there's no denying that. They down you faster than super sprinters in Cold War with no armor.
@Fckituppp I can't tell if this is supposed to be a joke or not. I'd hope it is because if not, dialogue and discussion about zombies with the community has gone downhill. I really don't know what's happened to people why no one can be respectful anymore 😕
@@CJSanta I tend to stay with bo1-bo3. I have played a little bo4 but what it does right in atmosphere its gameplay is too much of a turn off. Cold war is not even zombies to me
@@metalmelter6735 bo4 is my personal favorite zombies, despite the issues have with it. But in my eyes, there hasn't been a real continuation of zombies. Cold War doesn't even exist to me
To be fair the player has never been as strong as they were leading up to bo3. In bo3 you had the new sliding mechanic, a more consistent staminup, stronger weapons, and double pap with AAT’s they had to make the zombies faster otherwise the player would be way too strong. Bo3 also was also mainly played on new hardware allowing less buggy and clunky movement. Making the zombies faster just incentivizes the challenge because of how strong the player is, I think it was a great move.
@@CJSanta Can you explain how that is "artificially inflating" difficulty? Isn't it a given that making the enemies stronger is a simple way to make the game more difficult? What qualifies as "naturally increasing"' difficulty to you?
> Making this comment 8 mins in, I agree about Bo3 Zombies being annoying something i would of mentioned about it is in Origins if you attempt trying to run on mud in bo2 with stamin up it felt like the mud wasnt there at all, almost like a counter to the slow down, In bo3 they patched that so now no matter what you're screwed. Yes it did help with immersion i guess but taking that option away from the player is bad considering if you so dare touch it say bye bye to anything you ever held dear (including gen 3 because who needs quick transport to gen 3 anyway?) For super sprinters in Bo4 and Cold War i personally do not mind, I played cold war extensively because of the fact i can sit down and just shoot zombies without having to think about gathering 700 different parts or steps for 1 gun or pack a punch (not to prove your attention span point 😭). For example dead of the night or revelations. But in cold war i especially dont mind the super sprinters since high rounding against them for me felt like a challenge since cold war is considered super easy. The rampage inducer i like too since it helps for the "slow" early rounds. But i completely understand how cold wars ai is unfun for someone trying to play a slow or original experience. It's different and i personally should of expected others to not enjoy it. For bo4 i can understand super sprinters, as there is a difficultly setting baked into the game. I could be unaware but perhaps they spawn the super sprinters in still but way later in rounds like 80 instead of 55 (i could be wrong) For MW3, Thats where i begin to draw the line. In every game prior AT LEAST you can somewhat "prep" before super sprinters come around. Cold war and bo4 it'll take around the 50's, Bo3 pray you know how to speedrun the apothican servant until they sprint. In MW3 you dare cross that Area 2 Zone and your dead, Its already crazy hard to get points and perks and keeping it consistently, stepping out of line cause everything to go into shambles which is certainly not fun.
id love to see the down times/hit speeds in each of the games compiled up include IW, WWII, CW&VG(at each damage value), and MWIII idk if you'd be willing to make such a video but regardless it would be very interesting to see
My issue is with mainly bo3 with the hot speed, and Cold War and vanguard having commando reach, and vangaurd forcing you to get armor but also having a jug zombies and a wizard that can kill way to easily with armor. Finally mwz tier 3 and stupid crazy fast like tranzit, but also have tier 2 at random, have super sprinters also.
I agree with you bit it's not going to go back for several reasons not just the attention span one. But the fact games are fucking huge a single game taking up whole hard drives and being 70-100$÷ and of course all 5he cosmetics and guns and shit they can sell you because your gonna wanna buy new guns to have at the start....
I massively prefer faster zombies in the newer games because as a newer player who came around late BO3 old I'm used to playing with fast zombies, so old games are a snoozefest, also also super sprinters only move faster than BASE walk speed, any kind of running with any weapon is still faster than a super sprinter, so as long as you're playing with awareness of where zombies spawn after you kill them, super sprinters are almost a non issue on most maps(other than Alpha Omega and Forsaken)
This is exactly what I said. That newer players who came in with these games can't stand the older playstyle because they aren't fast enough. This isn't a diss at you, but I think how fast the game is, it's a problem. And there should be a middle ground. Personally I think bo4s faster spawning, close go the player BUT reduced hit speed was a step in the right direction. The game just didn't need the super sprinters. If it didn't have them, I think it'd be perfect.
Just gonna bud in and say that the older games are a snooze fest as long as you let them be. There are plenty of legitimate strategies that make BO1/WAW play as chaotically as a BO3 map without the unfair hit speed or clunky character control. Try running Ascension power room on BO1 or Tommy room Der Riese or Bar Room in Die Rise. All are super fun and require some decision making, I think you’d like it!
@@CJSanta "i'm incapable of learning how to play a game i don't like and that makes me butthurt" isn't an argument either, but you just made a video saying exactly that. Fuckin skill issue lmao.
IMO the Zombies formula was perfected in BO1. Everything down to the minute details like movement. I enjoyed BO3 but the true Zombies mode had vanished by that point. In the modern environment of not just COD but gaming itself, I don't think the real Zombies from WAW-BO2 will ever return.
I know i play this game as a beginner but I have seen videos about the way these players played the game and I felt like BO3 zombies AI is just pure insanity to me because it feels like I being knocked out cold by Mike Tyson like Jesus chirst I know you might say "Skill issue" but first don't judge someone just because they're bad in the game and I am bad at zombies too second I agree with the point that CJ has made because over time the game mode would become too hectic while I didn't played these newer games I still agree with him regardless I know it seems like I'm writing an essay to y'all lol.
I have never noticed how fast they kill you. I always feel like a God in BO3. I remember being windmilled hard in previous games. I get what you mean about immersion though. Cold war was definitely the worst for this. WW2 actually did a great job at this with final reich (might not be the right spelling 😂) but WaW did this amazingly by making you feel slow and helpless
The whole point of the zombies dealing damage in the higher rounds is because the more powerful you became, so do the zombies. Hell, I’d take the MWZ/Cold War zombie AI over BO3
Cold War AI at least addressed the issues regarding skill issue. BO3 AI can be toned down IF Treyarch did changed it at launch since it’s been unchanged because Gums exists.
Which is why they need to start walking things back, because Cold War, you're too overpowered and in MWZ the zombies are too overpowered. There needs to be a balance.
@@CJSanta but CJ, that’s the whole point of being geared up in Cold War, VG and MWZ is. And I can deal with getting my ass kicked in high rounds. Getting my ass kicked by BO3 zombies with the hitting strengths of mike tyson on round 4 is ludicrous. And there’s no way I’m going back to the infinite scaling health cap days of zombies. That crap sucked
@@MaD_MrL I actually LIKE the health cap introducing in bo4, think it was a good idea. Making all the wonder weapons effective and giving all the guns just enough power to be useful on higher rounds.
Plus I think they were onto something in BO2 when you play survival you can pick the difficulty and what wave you started on and if hellhounds were on or headshots only etc. They had something there but they didn't bring it back
I think the problem is that youre just considering the zombie speed on its own without recognizing how they fit into the game theyre set into. Coming off of Bo1, Bo2 map sizes (the main ones) were considerably larger and then even larger in Bo3. Having slow zombies in a large sandbox makes the higher rounds a slog to get through. Also, the introduction of buildables and gobblegums were crutches to the player, especially the riot sheild that came in alot of bo2 maps and every bo3 map not including some of chronicle and the giant so tweaking the zombies was a good counterbalance. If you want a bad example, play WW2 ESPECIALLY the shadowed throne. You will have sprinters on crack scratching you while you literally have to stand still to do the EE.
Well that would be true, but when you look at most of the maps in bo3 they're not very open at all. And alot of the Chronicles maps don't play well because of the mechanical changes to the ai on maps that they weren't meant for. Ironically, Verruckt is the one map in bo3 where the ai doesn't bother me. It's actually my 10th favorite map of all time. Because the zombie movement and behavior fits, as the map always played very fast and 'crazy'.
well an example of how this affects the game, just play bo3 Origins, not only do they slow the player down in the mud, they also add faster zombies, they make the experience sometimes frustrating
8:33 to me spawning with a assault rifle or whatever you want, made the camo grind easier, if we are gonna keep having camo grinds, Cold War is the best way to do it, with an alt mode just like the old cod zombies.
Big disagree with this one. Dead of the night for example you can take a lot of time on round 1, and get a lot done (opening doors, 1st ee / ww steps etc) . OG maps you can't even get out of the starting room, or a best buy 1 door. That gives (to me) the impression of a slower game pace than some of the OG maps (without gobblegums). And the early rounds actually feel much longer than bops1 maps for this reason. As far as AI hits, the only issue I dislike is on the newer games, no matter how fast you run past a zombies they always land a hit, even though you know you know your out of reach for that hot.
The early rounds being and feeling slower is the point. The game should be slower, and you should be able to open up the whole or half the map by round one.
4:48 It also incentivizes players to optimize every match instead of playing casually. 5:52 Atleast every map (Except BOTD) had the Shield strat for high rounding. 7:19 Yeah, that's one of my biggest issues with Cold War. What's the point of even a Survival Mode if the enemy can 1 hit you after buying Jugg and Armor?? That's what bothered me about AW Survival, GHOSTS Survival, and MW2019. It was unreasonable! (Not to mention Pausing on Solo wasn't a feature on those games!)
While i agree about the newer maps lacking that soul and progression, but man all the games bo2 i think are very easy. Granted i like going to round 100 so i love that speed of things. Bo3 i feel like is incredibly easy but enjoyable. Cold war is mindless fun.
4:07 sweating on bo3 zombies is wild, I think this is a skill issue man, I myself and plenty of others in fact the majority of the community regard this as the best zombies title and never once have I heard the hit rate being an issue, I think your alone on this one 🤷♂️
I've shown the evidence that zombies hit you nearly twice as fast in bo3. Along with the numerous players commenting saying they too feel the difference, there's no debate of skill. This is a fact that the games ai was changed to push players to use more gobblegums.
It's not a matter of the maps being bad either, it's the design philosophy. They artificially made the hit speed higher, to facilitate a broken perk like Widows Wine, as well as op gobblegums. It's always important to ask "why was this changed"? And it was done to encourage microtransactions with the gums 😕
Your not just getting old I’m 17 and I have this issue I like every black ops but bo3 has really been off and on for me It’s super easy but once you get touched it’s game over Black ops 3 is 50% positives and 50% negatives Imo 1. Black ops 2 2. Black ops 3. Black ops 3 4. Black ops 4 5. Cold War
Maybe it's because I'm older, but I find that because the zombies are so fast, I don't take as much time to observe the small details in the games' environments anymore.
This is one of the big issues I brought up, there's no immersion in the newer games anymore because of this speed issue 😮💨
You can still observe things in bo3, it’s just beyond that its hard to
@@CJSantadon’t let them hate over you over your opinion
“Every things been sped up”
Verrückt: 👹
THANK YOU, I told my cousin why i couldn't enjoy bo3 as much as he did because why the f are zombies running on round 2, i hate how hectic they are but it's fine because you have 3 hits instead of 2, WTF is that type of excuse
Zombies don’t run till round 4 and that’s only when it’s the last zombies and it’s 3 hits cuz the zombies go faster, y would you want it to be 2 with fast zombies and all zombies don’t start running till round 16 to 17
you must be absolutely dog shit at the game
@@aplexdav6629I had a zombie running at 2 also
@@aidanwhite2894which map? I don't really believe you but in tryn to lol
The one thing that ruins bo3 for me is that the zombies can hit you with zero wind up, all they have to do is run into you to get insanely hit. Pretty much the reason why I use the all-around enchantment mod to bump the health up to 200 (300 with jug), or the T6 mod to revert the ai back to bo2
Bo4 zombies is even worse. Sure they don't hit as fast, but they spawn in faster and run faster. Also, from what I remember, the zombies in bo4 used to hit faster than bo3. However, it was patched. This is the reason why I played bo4 on custom mutations. Also, if you leave a zombie alive for to long on some maps, dogs spawn in. The zombie ai in bo4 is even worse. It's nuts.
@Vitamins152 no, the health in bo4 was originally 3 hits but they patched it to 4.
I think because the zombies actually react to being shot or hit with weapons, as in they stagger and stumble, you can avoid being trapped or insta downed like bo3.
In my case not just bo3, but even Cold War and vanguard had the same issue of commando pro zombies, and mwz also and on top of that tier 3 has tranzit sprinters
@CJSanta I guess, but the sprint speed of the zombies in bo4 is insane. Especially after round 55 as you stated in the video. Not only that, if you play the aether maps in bo4 and leave the last zombie alive for a certain amount of time, dogs spawn in. Dogs in bo4 are easy to kill, but insanely fast and hit fast. But, yes bo3 zombies swipe faster. I do like bo3 zombies as it is my most favorite, 2nd is bo1. But, yeah the swipe speed is too insane in bo3.
Bro bo4 is like 10x worse aswell
This is exactly why I don't play chronicles. The zombies on bo3 hit you way too fast. I'd rather play the og version of the chronicles maps on their respective games.
Skill issue
i dont play chronicles because the odd bugs on the maps that werent there in the originals (slower mud on origins compared to bo2, baby gun doesnt work right, etc)
@@Phaxntom they had to release a patch to slow down their hit speed, so I wasn't the only one who noticed.
I personally prefer the more aggressive zombies of bo3 onwards
But if the zombies will kill in 1 second then the game will be unplayable.
@@tomforce8331don’t get hit. Simple
@@SpideyShelf Stop camping
@@tomforce8331 bo3 is hardly unplayable
@@fabianholder5053so it’s playable
I think Treyarch sees that the average zombies player is a warzone guy trying to rank up his guns so unfortunately that’s what the mode is catered to. With the faster pace the nerds can rank up their guns faster before buying a 60 dollar King Kong fist. Really sad because I think the mode has the potential to be its own franchise and be much more successful than warzone. Once Warzone dies completely maybe we’ll get more of an original experience 🤷♂️
It's weird cuz the hit speed is so much higher, but the games feel so much easier cuz of all the other changes. Sometimes with the right weapons and double tap 2.0 and gobblegums you just feel like, "I'm never gonna naturally go down unless I do a challenge or something."
It's mainly because the gobblegum system does so much to mitigate the artificial challenge they created with this zombie ai.
Brave of you to drop this video but a good topic of discussion. I never had a problem with this
People who disagree and say skill issue because they think bo3 is peak when literally it’s easy also everything’s given to them and there being spoon fed. They just can’t handle other people’s opinions
BO3 would be stupidly hard without gums is the funny thing
Nah we don't "think" it's peak we KNOW it's peak literally every video ranks b03 #1 cope Lil bro
B03 started this , that hit speed still annoys me to this day , b02 had the perfect zombies speed , including hit speed
I think I agree, the despawn works well.
Shame about not being able to hold Crawlers though 😭
Thanks Treyarch, you killed your own survival gamemode
Lol
It's been dead for years. Black ops 4 killed it
This is a point that I don't see talked about. The intent made sense to make the mode harder because players became better. But the casual side of things fall out because of the difficulty. The crazy moments where players have to juke their way out of situations is impossible in the newer games simply because the zombies track you too quickly. And the difficulty option doesn't work well in practice as we've seen in both BO2 and BO4. I think BO4 and CW really surmised it since you can get to round 100 in under 5 hours (BO3 with some gobblegums in certain cases). And MW3 is an absolute nightmare Tier 3. You can't even outrun them (I believe CW had that problem too). There is no sit-down casual setting anymore. Glad to see a video like this with some light.
If they wanted to make the game harder then they could've made harder maps like Five or Shang more often. The community never sees the difficulty as an issue because they're too busy camping in corners with overpowered setups. The community HATES difficulty, hence why fan favorites are always the maps you can be overpowered on
Okay I thought it was just me who found it insane. People always say BO3 is the best zombies and I have to disagree. I hate the AI and how fast they swing, it makes sense why Widow's Wine was the only new perk on that game.
I felt I've been gaslit by the bo3 community into NOT thinking this was a problem 😅
But I knew it was bad the FIRST MATCH I played back in November of 2015.
@@CJSanta Exactly correct. 😂 "You're just not good, get better" as they say. 🤦🏽♂️ Great video man. 👍🏽 BO1/2 will always be my favorite zombies lol.
The fast hit speed is the only thing that i think stinks in BO3 and that's why I haven't done any of the ees besides the Giant. They just hit too fast like they're Sonic the hedgehog and even if you get better at the game you still die instantly sometimes to the zombies when you're in the corner unless you have the gobblegums or a op Wonder weapon. And that's why the ees are too hard for me solo but I will complete them someday.
Black ops 4 also has really hard ees too I know I won't be able to complete blood of the dead or dead of the night's any time soon mostly because of the same reason
I always wished instead of a faster game, the amout of zombies would increase past the limit. If not, then implement these changes as the rounds progress. Like round 10 zombies respawn, round 15 zombies get faster, etc etc. the beginning of a game matters so much. If its too fast and aggressive, players feel like they cant get anything done and so interest.
I find appreciation for both the WaW/BO1 style of zombie speed and progression, while also enjoying the rampage inducer introduced later on in Cold War’s lifespan. Really hoping for a return to form in BO5 🙏🏽
BO6, you mean? Cold War is BO5.
Thank you for talking about this. I've brought up how BS BO3 is in other comment sections but everybody just says I'm crazy. The three main issues with this game are:
>Zombie aggression and speed
>Players can no longer jump (or even strafe jump) without facing major speed penalties
>Zombies are no longer able to clip through each other
The average BO3 player doesn't notice these issues because they never try to train and I don't blame them at all. Why train in a game that's heavily designed around camping? Every map has a lingering AOE wonder weapon which is perfect for sitting in a corner till round 100 when you use gumballs. Every map features Verruckt sprinter equivalents (the ones that lean forward when they run). Every map has annoying additional enemies designed to trap you. When the game is too hard to play as a sandbox mode then players will only use a single strategy. Remove crutches like camping wonder weapons and shields and the people would be up in arms about this game in a heartbeat
IMO BO1 had it perfect in terms of pacing. Zombies would gradually increase in speed until round 10 where they would all be runners, there were no progression skipping cheat mechanics, certain rooms were fast and chaotic like BO2+ and other rooms were slow and methodical, there were no quests that forced you out of the main gameplay loop to get a wonder weapon necessary for progressing, jug was neither too far away or too close. Idk why they didn't keep it like that, I guess it all started when Jimmy Z started cooking too hard on Tranzit
Also a little on the despawn mechanic because what you said isn't entirely true. COTD was the first map to have the despawn based on distance mechanic. The catch is that only undamaged zombies would respawn, the damaged ones like crawlers wouldn't despawn (as it should be). Shang and Moon followed the same rules
I dont think you've played bo3 that much, the game is sooo not camping oriented i dont even know where you got this from
@@dazth3legend670 Tell me why
@@ebstool6885 camping will be effective untill like round 30 at which by then reloading lack of ammo or simply the zombie hp will make that strategy not viable, most of the maps dont have a comfortable camping position (the catwalk in the giant being the only good camping spot i can think of in the base game)
Now in my opinion the training experience is actually quite enjoyable thanks to the slide
Yes there is some bs downs thanks to the hit speed but they are more of a slight annoyance rather than a constant problem unlike other issues in other games
(The lack of ammo in bo1 weapons being a good example)
@@dazth3legend670You can get to round 100 on DE, Moon, Revelations and Origins purely by camping with the wonderweapon. In fact they’re the most effective and fastest strategy to do so.
@@dazth3legend670 Clearly you've never camped in a corner with a lightning bow or squid gun like the rest of the community...
It takes some getting used to but the players have been sped up. I do like the gradual dreadful progression of the old games, but I also like the anxiety of needing to go faster to stay ahead of the zombies.
A lot of people don’t know but the despawn mechanic has been a thing since call of the dead
It just became much quicker and, therefore, noticeable in tranzit 👀
yep, miss how zombies used to play.
This is exactly why BO1 will always be my favorite zombies, the perfect grounded, barebones elements combined with the ever evolving gamemode changes that came with it were just peak IMO
THANK YOU! I knew the swipe speed in BO3 was too fast. I have lost so many easter egg attempts because of that
Also what’s the song in the background?
'The City of Delphi' from Ancient Evil
@@ispepsiokay411 that explains why I never heard of it since I never played BO4
I don’t know why, but that high pitched, supernatural cry the zombies make always gets me into the game, and kind of fills me with awe of how well kino der toten was created. The Easter eggs, the boxes with knocking, the Chandeliers, the teleporter rooms, the tapes you can play.
Finaly someone agrees that the zombie hit speed ruins bo3!
“Oh hey what if we decide to make a despawn mechanic in the same game we decide to make the maps borderline unplayable if you don’t set up with a last zombie?”
Seriously who’s fucking idea was this?
Then the next game:
“Oh yea and let’s make that single last zombie a crazy threat. Like enough to kill you if it sneaks up behind you even with jugg.”
These 2 mechanics combined absolutely killed any chance of playing/introducing black ops 3 with casuals. Every time I try and get friends involved the set up is so god damn hard because before you get a zombie shield, that one last zombie will either despawn due to the mechanics, or it’ll be killed by a teammate because he suddenly got red screened even though he’s running a good train. I’m kinda a firm believer that the blops 3 zombies are straight up designed with the players all having jugg, widows wine, and a zombie shield
TRIGGER WARNING - HOT TAKE: Bo3 is where they started to stray from the og zombies formula with Gobblegums and if it werent for Bo3 doing this, the game would have kept some soul...
And they want to bring them back...
Imagine gums in a game as easy as cold war 🫢
@@CJSanta EXACTLY, AND THESE NEW AGE ZOMBIES FANS (people who like Bo3 - CwZ) ARE HYPING IT UP LIKE BROOO!?
It wasn't just the gums. They made every fucking map a quest to do anything. I'm all for complicated easter eggs but having them forced upon you is awful. Does anyone actually enjoying feeding dogs on mob where they take 10 full seconds to eat a single zombie? It's boring and takes you out of the game
You know you can just….NOT use them right? Noone is holding a gun to your head telling you to use them. And you can easily find people who want to play normal games without them
@@smugplush I get it from the context of someone who just has 90 minutes or so to play and wants to hop on a match once a month...but to anyone else that plays or has played regularly these maps are a godawful experience
@rs07scrapeNews that's not an argument. It's not on the player to avoid poor game design. The devs gave you a mod menu and you've turned it into a crutch
the waw/bo1 games have the creepy setting, but in bo3 i feel scared and like on my edge because like you said all it takes is like a second to go down.
That's one way of looking at it 😅
Super sprinters are one of the worst things about zombies. I honestly don't have any clue how anyone can enjoy it. Yeah whatever it gets you right into the action with the TikTok attention span crowd but in reality it basically FORCES a player to adopt some sort of camping strat. Unlike the older games where high rounds was about endurance and decision making, newer zombies is just about spamming and being able to upkeep your armor that keeps getting unfairly depleted by ranged attacks, special enemy spam, meat throwers even though you're not out of bounds, and insane hit speeds. It really does feel like most times you're gonna get hit regardless and theres nothing you can do about it in the newer games to the point that it gets really annoying hearing the sound of armor breaking knowing that there really was no way to avoid it. Same can be said about the BO4 shield, that thing seems like it breaks so quickly without victorious due to the hit speed because with the hit speed you really can't juke zombies in BO4 without them at least still managing to hit your shield once or twice just due to the speed they swing. At that point I'm better off turning towards the zombies so they take a hit of health instead of damaging the shield (a decision that the armor system doesn't grant)
I just talked about this with a friend. The game balance was fine until bo3. I think the only way they can fix it now is getting rid of super sprinters and zombies doing the same damage the entire game again. I don’t care about getting double swiped early round as long as I’m not going to have to play the game on crack after round 35
I agree. This is the best solution for the game right now
Hey thanks for the video! I was surprised you didn’t bring up that, at least in BO2 (unsure if it’s in BO3), the zombie’s move speed was faster that your movement speed. It was really annoying and added unnecessary stress to things.
I don't know if that's true, I've been on a Tranzit high round quest lately, and because you can't sprint with the jetgun I've been walking with it out. I'm able to walk a train of zombies fairly easily. Unless one spawns ahead of me.
7:19 the reason why they do more damage is to make it more balanced due to how easy zombies was in cold war
I do wish the actual damage was more gradual & not a sharp increase on set rounds if every round their damage went up by a small amount per round that'd be better. Cause unless you know the game inside & out, you'd be wondering why after round 47 or whatever it is they are annihilating you
I think introducing a proper thought out difficulty system of some form would honestly do zombies wonders for appealing to all kinds of players. I enjoy the fast-paced cluster fuck of the modern games, as do many others, but sometimes I also can't be bothered to deal with super sprinters and two hit kills without armour and would like a calmer game. I imagine it'd be very difficult to strike the right balance between each difficulty, but if implemented well (unlike BO4 which is just silly) I could only see it being healthy in the long run.
Bring back custom mutations would also help in being able to build a perfect playing environment for each individual player, just as long as you can save presets and actually complete easter eggs. If they're going to introduce a bunch of new mechanics to the game, especially when so many of them can be potentially alienating, giving the player more customisability in how they play would only be an upside. The mode's already very sandboxy as is, just play into it more.
the fast hit speed goes hand and hand with the problem for players like me who have never done most of the ees before who almost always play on solo because we always get to the 20s or 30s even before the final step/boss fight no matter how slow we take it or even with a guide. So the zombies will always kill you no matter what you do on solo even though there's less zombies
I absolutely understand why you say these things, I often love to play the old maps because of atmospheric feel they have, even Shangri-la a harder map still has that beautiful tone to the beginning rounds, also I love Verrcukt as it was a test map with their faster runners it’s a insane map for a reason. which is why too it’s scary. But yea the zombies being faster in general ruins that feel they first had and their maps because they all feel the same.
As someone who played a lot of the newer games first and went back to the older games afterwards, it's hard to agree with a lot of these points. a lot of the changes Cold War specifically made "cut the fluff" of a lot of older zombies titles. Especially in early rounds there was a lot of wasted time waiting for all the zombies to finally reach you and a place you can kill them. The starting weapon is basically useless and forces you to roll the box or buy some temporary wall weapon. Personally I start CW matches with a 1911 to mimic the older games because if i'm skilled enough I can actually take it to high rounds (although I don't do this as much since I play more for camo challenges) I do agree that in high rounds things get a little too fast and I prefer high rounding on older games, but with the perks and armor the newer games give, it's alot easier to high round those. You're absolutely correct about BO3 though, I always knew there was something weird about taking damage in that game, great video overall.
If you have BO3 on PC I recommend trying a mod called T6 which changes the zombie ai to mimic that of black ops 2, along with classic movement & bo2 weapons. If you ever get the chance to try it out I’d love to hear your thoughts on how it improved general gameplay on bo3 maps.
Edit: as much as I prefer the older zombies progression speed the truth of it is most people including myself simply have too busy of a life to put anymore than I’d say 1-2hrs into a zombies match. Nacht is near unplayable for me just because of how long it takes so I have to resort to using a mod to make the base speed sprinters. Immersion is pointless if I have to pause to go to work as soon as the game starts to get interesting.
This is actually extremely relatable.
Waw, bo1, bo2, and bo3 are basically the only cods with zombies on the ps3.
Waw and bo1 are both fun to play.
Bo2 zombies gets old really fast and has a cheating problem.
And bo3 doesn't even have its campaign on the ps3 yet so it's safe to assume that there are almost no patches and the hit speed is much worse.
If you were to play zombies on any of the other games I listed and then on bo3, things would get so much more unnecessarily complicated and difficult for you despite what you might think
Bo2 will forever be my favorite when it comes to how the Zombies move.
Just slow enough to be able to weave out of incredibly tight situations but fast enough that they still keep you on your toes.
Anyways, great video was always Mr. Claus.
2:35
"Here is where bodies hit the floor".
I actually dont mind the speed. I dont care if they hit super fast, it makes sense that you shouldnt be standing next to a zombie for 2 whole seconds 😅
As for the movement speed tho, while i dont hate it for gameplay, i think if they werent so fast the maps(especially in bo4) would feel a lot better
you didnt mention how the zombies die or respawn if you move a few feet away or look away for a little too long starting in bo3. it was a problem in bo2 too but I only found it frustrating on mob tbh.
BO3 's Zombies are on a mixture of crack, mushroom, steroids and energy drink.
I do think that you’ve made a great point about the shooter genre’s development in entirety. Shooters have gone up in pace for the past 10 years, be this CoD, Titanfall , or even Doom 2016’s fault. Battlefield now has a tac sprint, Halo has a dedicated sprint, etc. And this modern pace runs antithetical to the flow of the core experience previous titles had. Surprisingly the only shooter I’ve noticed retain its feel through the years is Gears of war
I love bo3, but damn i get swiped so fast to the point on on red screen when i activate in pain sight or go down trying to use it
I've personally never had the hit speed "issue" ever concern me. I felt like that's why everything was increased in speed. Player slide hopping, 6 hit juggernog, the shield in every map to protect back hits, and widows wine being an optional perk to take, but not mandatory. I have played bo3 easily without the shield or widows with no trouble
Jug isn't 6 hits in BO3. It's 5 just like every game before it. Slide hopping is the same speed as sprinting, it's not a buff to a player's ability to dodge. Widows wine makes training much more annoying. The old system was never an issue, they changed it to compensate for 3 hits because the 12 year olds couldn't stop getting windmilled on round 3. Instead of ignoring the underage audience Jason Blundell decided to punish everyone
This complaint is literally a skillcheck. Maybe if you just normal sprint and dont slidehop its an issue but im at the point where my brain is incapable of not slidehoping which has ruined all other cod zombies gor me
@@waltersaffron5858 slide hopping isnt just as fast as sprinting. Also without staminup you have a limit to how long you can sprint. Even without staminup you can slide hop as much as you want with 0 penalty
@@rs07scapeNews So then why don't you tell me how fast it is since you clearly know more than me? You can't slide hop around corners or while training either...I think you're just a secondary
i don't mind super sprinters that much but i hate the fact that in cold war onwards, they do so much damage to the point where you can get 1 hit with full armor and jug. it makes jug and armor pointless in high rounds.
Call me old fashioned, but I think the first time they implemented Jug in Verruckt was the best. There would be times it would take six zombies windmilling you in order to get you down. What's not to like?
I think Black Ops 3 is the most balanced for the Speed / Pace of the match yes they respawn fast when you get far away but if you keep running you'll never be hit. Also, the movement speed for most guns are the same, holding a LMG's versus an AR is the same movement speed funnily. The 3 Hit Down System really benefited the higher attack speed, but you had shields in most maps to counter this. In BO4 they ruined a any down time with supersprinters & if you dare look in a meter away from a zombie it'd respawn closer.
Fun fact, the level of aggression bo3 zombies have has caused me to legitimately dislike it.
I love the maps, the weapons, the eggs, the story. But the actual zombies feel like shit.
Sure, you only get a second or 2, but in bo1-bo2 you genuinely get a few seconds to make a quick choice. In bo3, if there are 2 or 3 zombies near you and you have no shield, you're dead. No weapon swap, no movement tricks, you're just instantly dead. Bo1-Bo2 feel like it's skill first. In Bo3, it feels like its EQUIPMENT first.
Bo3 is still my favorite but yeah this is the biggest problem for sure. Sometimes you just get insta downed and it’s frustrating for sure.
As someone who likes Black Ops Cold War Zombies, I agree with everything.
The stamin up solution would have been perfect
I’m so glad to hear someone else agree about the ai in bo3. I’ve brought it up before and it got claimed to be a skill issue and I’m like how. One time I was playing The Giant and I got insta-downed from two zombies behind me with jug and not only does that map not have a shield (just like the other WaW-Bo1 remasters) but it’s also the only one without Widow’s Wine. Bo3 is still my favorite zombies game and I really enjoy all of the maps and the addition of chronicles but the ai was rough imo.
Oh it's a major problem, but the bo3 community are too busy using op gums that play the game for them to see it.
I love the simple, terrifying, brutal difficulty of naut Der untoten
I’m glad i’m not the only one who didn’t really enjoy Black Ops 3. It was fun, and I had very fond memories with friends, but I don’t think I would enjoy it solo today
I think the best possible option to please everyone is to simply give us the option between the two types of zombies. Slow and methodical or fast and hectic.
I think this the first time i’ve identified an age issue
9 years ago when bo3 came out, I knew the hitspeed was trash then. Which is why I stopped playing for so long.
@@CJSantaskill issue
@Fckituppp it's not a matter of skill, it's a matter of data.
The zombies hit faster in bo3, there's no denying that.
They down you faster than super sprinters in Cold War with no armor.
@@CJSanta get gud old man
@Fckituppp I can't tell if this is supposed to be a joke or not.
I'd hope it is because if not, dialogue and discussion about zombies with the community has gone downhill.
I really don't know what's happened to people why no one can be respectful anymore 😕
I think bo4 strife having a 1 hit melee until round 5 is the worst offender to progression in any map
I talked about this in my starting pistol video, cold war does it far worse...
@@CJSanta I tend to stay with bo1-bo3. I have played a little bo4 but what it does right in atmosphere its gameplay is too much of a turn off. Cold war is not even zombies to me
@@metalmelter6735 bo4 is my personal favorite zombies, despite the issues have with it.
But in my eyes, there hasn't been a real continuation of zombies. Cold War doesn't even exist to me
Watching CJ video’s late night is a vibe love the video 🫶🏼, unique subject aswell !
i just really hate how many ground spawns there are in BO3, even in rooms with windows (iirc)
To be fair the player has never been as strong as they were leading up to bo3. In bo3 you had the new sliding mechanic, a more consistent staminup, stronger weapons, and double pap with AAT’s they had to make the zombies faster otherwise the player would be way too strong. Bo3 also was also mainly played on new hardware allowing less buggy and clunky movement. Making the zombies faster just incentivizes the challenge because of how strong the player is, I think it was a great move.
if bo3 zombies didn’t hit as fast the game would be far too easy with all the resources given to you
They made the ai that way to artificially inflate the difficulty to make players use gobblegums to play the games from them.
@@CJSanta Can you explain how that is "artificially inflating" difficulty? Isn't it a given that making the enemies stronger is a simple way to make the game more difficult? What qualifies as "naturally increasing"' difficulty to you?
I had played shangri la with friends recently, this was the biggest issue
We need custom mutations back to cater to everybody
> Making this comment 8 mins in,
I agree about Bo3 Zombies being annoying something i would of mentioned about it is in Origins if you attempt trying to run on mud in bo2 with stamin up it felt like the mud wasnt there at all, almost like a counter to the slow down, In bo3 they patched that so now no matter what you're screwed. Yes it did help with immersion i guess but taking that option away from the player is bad considering if you so dare touch it say bye bye to anything you ever held dear (including gen 3 because who needs quick transport to gen 3 anyway?)
For super sprinters in Bo4 and Cold War i personally do not mind, I played cold war extensively because of the fact i can sit down and just shoot zombies without having to think about gathering 700 different parts or steps for 1 gun or pack a punch (not to prove your attention span point 😭). For example dead of the night or revelations. But in cold war i especially dont mind the super sprinters since high rounding against them for me felt like a challenge since cold war is considered super easy. The rampage inducer i like too since it helps for the "slow" early rounds.
But i completely understand how cold wars ai is unfun for someone trying to play a slow or original experience. It's different and i personally should of expected others to not enjoy it.
For bo4 i can understand super sprinters, as there is a difficultly setting baked into the game. I could be unaware but perhaps they spawn the super sprinters in still but way later in rounds like 80 instead of 55 (i could be wrong)
For MW3, Thats where i begin to draw the line. In every game prior AT LEAST you can somewhat "prep" before super sprinters come around. Cold war and bo4 it'll take around the 50's, Bo3 pray you know how to speedrun the apothican servant until they sprint.
In MW3 you dare cross that Area 2 Zone and your dead, Its already crazy hard to get points and perks and keeping it consistently, stepping out of line cause everything to go into shambles which is certainly not fun.
Yeh I’ve been saying the same thing for years
id love to see the down times/hit speeds in each of the games compiled up include IW, WWII, CW&VG(at each damage value), and MWIII
idk if you'd be willing to make such a video but regardless it would be very interesting to see
I think I could do that 👀
My issue is with mainly bo3 with the hot speed, and Cold War and vanguard having commando reach, and vangaurd forcing you to get armor but also having a jug zombies and a wizard that can kill way to easily with armor. Finally mwz tier 3 and stupid crazy fast like tranzit, but also have tier 2 at random, have super sprinters also.
I agree with you bit it's not going to go back for several reasons not just the attention span one.
But the fact games are fucking huge a single game taking up whole hard drives and being 70-100$÷ and of course all 5he cosmetics and guns and shit they can sell you because your gonna wanna buy new guns to have at the start....
Fatser zombies are not the problem for me, but the hit speed issue that you bought up is a real pain. Good video as always
I massively prefer faster zombies in the newer games because as a newer player who came around late BO3 old I'm used to playing with fast zombies, so old games are a snoozefest, also also super sprinters only move faster than BASE walk speed, any kind of running with any weapon is still faster than a super sprinter, so as long as you're playing with awareness of where zombies spawn after you kill them, super sprinters are almost a non issue on most maps(other than Alpha Omega and Forsaken)
This is exactly what I said. That newer players who came in with these games can't stand the older playstyle because they aren't fast enough.
This isn't a diss at you, but I think how fast the game is, it's a problem.
And there should be a middle ground.
Personally I think bo4s faster spawning, close go the player BUT reduced hit speed was a step in the right direction. The game just didn't need the super sprinters.
If it didn't have them, I think it'd be perfect.
Just gonna bud in and say that the older games are a snooze fest as long as you let them be. There are plenty of legitimate strategies that make BO1/WAW play as chaotically as a BO3 map without the unfair hit speed or clunky character control. Try running Ascension power room on BO1 or Tommy room Der Riese or Bar Room in Die Rise. All are super fun and require some decision making, I think you’d like it!
the same happened to the Dark Souls games, everything is so sped up nowadays even a smth like Doom Eternal is adhd compared to the other games
You hit the nail on the head with BO3 for me. I love most of the systems in the game, its the fucking zombie aggression that does it for me.
As a Bo3 Zombies player… I don’t care how fast the Zombies hit, Only wanna see how long could I survive in the higher rounds.
Skill issue
This is not an argument.
@@CJSantayet you decided to bring a unpacked weapon into a tear 3 zone
@@CJSanta "i'm incapable of learning how to play a game i don't like and that makes me butthurt" isn't an argument either, but you just made a video saying exactly that.
Fuckin skill issue lmao.
lil bro is saying that when he's camping in corners and shooting the ground with his lightning bow XD
@@waltersaffron5858 zombies is ABOUT camping, most if not all high rounds stats contains camping
Amazing video as always CJ Santa!!!
“I call bullshit. Zombies don’t run!” 😂
IMO the Zombies formula was perfected in BO1. Everything down to the minute details like movement. I enjoyed BO3 but the true Zombies mode had vanished by that point. In the modern environment of not just COD but gaming itself, I don't think the real Zombies from WAW-BO2 will ever return.
I know i play this game as a beginner but I have seen videos about the way these players played the game and I felt like BO3 zombies AI is just pure insanity to me because it feels like I being knocked out cold by Mike Tyson like Jesus chirst I know you might say "Skill issue" but first don't judge someone just because they're bad in the game and I am bad at zombies too second I agree with the point that CJ has made because over time the game mode would become too hectic while I didn't played these newer games I still agree with him regardless I know it seems like I'm writing an essay to y'all lol.
I have never noticed how fast they kill you. I always feel like a God in BO3. I remember being windmilled hard in previous games.
I get what you mean about immersion though. Cold war was definitely the worst for this. WW2 actually did a great job at this with final reich (might not be the right spelling 😂) but WaW did this amazingly by making you feel slow and helpless
The whole point of the zombies dealing damage in the higher rounds is because the more powerful you became, so do the zombies. Hell, I’d take the MWZ/Cold War zombie AI over BO3
Cold War AI at least addressed the issues regarding skill issue. BO3 AI can be toned down IF Treyarch did changed it at launch since it’s been unchanged because Gums exists.
Which is why they need to start walking things back, because Cold War, you're too overpowered and in MWZ the zombies are too overpowered.
There needs to be a balance.
@@CJSanta but CJ, that’s the whole point of being geared up in Cold War, VG and MWZ is.
And I can deal with getting my ass kicked in high rounds. Getting my ass kicked by BO3 zombies with the hitting strengths of mike tyson on round 4 is ludicrous. And there’s no way I’m going back to the infinite scaling health cap days of zombies. That crap sucked
@@MaD_MrL I actually LIKE the health cap introducing in bo4, think it was a good idea. Making all the wonder weapons effective and giving all the guns just enough power to be useful on higher rounds.
@@CJSanta based.
I agree with your points generally. The only game I think super sprinters worked was Cold War given you were massively OP in that game
Plus I think they were onto something in BO2 when you play survival you can pick the difficulty and what wave you started on and if hellhounds were on or headshots only etc.
They had something there but they didn't bring it back
They are on that wacky tobaccy with that difficulty slider. Zombies doesnt need an easy mode
I think the problem is that youre just considering the zombie speed on its own without recognizing how they fit into the game theyre set into. Coming off of Bo1, Bo2 map sizes (the main ones) were considerably larger and then even larger in Bo3. Having slow zombies in a large sandbox makes the higher rounds a slog to get through. Also, the introduction of buildables and gobblegums were crutches to the player, especially the riot sheild that came in alot of bo2 maps and every bo3 map not including some of chronicle and the giant so tweaking the zombies was a good counterbalance. If you want a bad example, play WW2 ESPECIALLY the shadowed throne. You will have sprinters on crack scratching you while you literally have to stand still to do the EE.
Well that would be true, but when you look at most of the maps in bo3 they're not very open at all. And alot of the Chronicles maps don't play well because of the mechanical changes to the ai on maps that they weren't meant for.
Ironically, Verruckt is the one map in bo3 where the ai doesn't bother me. It's actually my 10th favorite map of all time. Because the zombie movement and behavior fits, as the map always played very fast and 'crazy'.
I'm 3:42 seconds into this video. I just redownloaded bo3 a couple weeks ago. I'v never felt so heard.
well an example of how this affects the game, just play bo3 Origins, not only do they slow the player down in the mud, they also add faster zombies, they make the experience sometimes frustrating
Very good video
8:33 to me spawning with a assault rifle or whatever you want, made the camo grind easier, if we are gonna keep having camo grinds, Cold War is the best way to do it, with an alt mode just like the old cod zombies.
This video explains why i love origins on bo 2 but don't like it on bo3
b03 zombies was the first zombies i played by the cod franchise so i thought the hit rate was normal lmao
Big disagree with this one. Dead of the night for example you can take a lot of time on round 1, and get a lot done (opening doors, 1st ee / ww steps etc) . OG maps you can't even get out of the starting room, or a best buy 1 door. That gives (to me) the impression of a slower game pace than some of the OG maps (without gobblegums). And the early rounds actually feel much longer than bops1 maps for this reason. As far as AI hits, the only issue I dislike is on the newer games, no matter how fast you run past a zombies they always land a hit, even though you know you know your out of reach for that hot.
The early rounds being and feeling slower is the point.
The game should be slower, and you should be able to open up the whole or half the map by round one.
4:48 It also incentivizes players to optimize every match instead of playing casually.
5:52 Atleast every map (Except BOTD) had the Shield strat for high rounding.
7:19 Yeah, that's one of my biggest issues with Cold War. What's the point of even a Survival Mode if the enemy can 1 hit you after buying Jugg and Armor?? That's what bothered me about AW Survival, GHOSTS Survival, and MW2019. It was unreasonable! (Not to mention Pausing on Solo wasn't a feature on those games!)
While i agree about the newer maps lacking that soul and progression, but man all the games bo2 i think are very easy. Granted i like going to round 100 so i love that speed of things. Bo3 i feel like is incredibly easy but enjoyable. Cold war is mindless fun.
4:07 sweating on bo3 zombies is wild, I think this is a skill issue man, I myself and plenty of others in fact the majority of the community regard this as the best zombies title and never once have I heard the hit rate being an issue, I think your alone on this one 🤷♂️
I've shown the evidence that zombies hit you nearly twice as fast in bo3.
Along with the numerous players commenting saying they too feel the difference, there's no debate of skill. This is a fact that the games ai was changed to push players to use more gobblegums.
Tac sprint is a setting dude not a base thing, I get some of your points tho
It's a feature that was unessisary. Why would anyone want to sprint but NOT sprint faster?
FINALLY someone else who doesn’t like BO3 🫂 my bro
It's not a matter of the maps being bad either, it's the design philosophy.
They artificially made the hit speed higher, to facilitate a broken perk like Widows Wine, as well as op gobblegums.
It's always important to ask "why was this changed"? And it was done to encourage microtransactions with the gums 😕
How do you think feel when I do bo3 round 100 shangri la
Remember bo3 balanced video game
Yes the speed and how fast you go down it's so insane and that's why i stopped buying call of duty games now
Your not just getting old I’m 17 and I have this issue I like every black ops but bo3 has really been off and on for me
It’s super easy but once you get touched it’s game over
Black ops 3 is 50% positives and 50% negatives
Imo
1. Black ops 2
2. Black ops
3. Black ops 3
4. Black ops 4
5. Cold War