God’s character is holy and righteous. He is a righteous God and judges clearly and with mercy and grace! He is beyond our comprehension, but has revealed himself through his son Jesus Christ! His character is without blemish, but He forgives our sin. He does not throw sinners into eternal torment, but they cease to exist. Those who believe in Him and his son Jesus Christ have eternal life, a gift from God.
He said He will lose no one whom the Father gives Him, and somewhere else He says, when He is raised up, He will draw all to Himself. Maybe no one will even ever die the second death. God has told people things to believe that were useful for the time they are given, and later abolished. The new covenant aboloshed a many things the old covenant supposedly held as truth. Even the idea of the messiah was different in the past prior to Jesus.
@@SomethingStacyDeut.24:16 states that each person will be accountable for his own sin. As humans we start life in the dispensation of innocence and as we grow into knowledge we merge into a different bracket of standards. So if a child dies in innocence what sin would he or she be judged for?
@@SomethingStacyhi there. Here is a passage from Deuteronomy 1 which I think answers this. I'm quoting the King James just because I find its language really beautiful Also the LORD was angry with me for your sakes, saying, Thou also shalt not go in thither. But Joshua the son of Nun, which standeth before thee, he shall go in thither: encourage him: for he shall cause Israel to inherit it. Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it. But as for you, turn you, and take your journey into the wilderness by the way of the Red sea. As for any who would somehow object, "but wouldn't these little kids be guilty of Adam's sin?" Here is Ezekiel 18: Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live. (HERE'S THE PART) The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. And Jesus, And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
Good word. ECT is based on an assumption that is not stated in the Bible, that people are eternal beings. Eternal life is ONLY offered as a gift for receiving the Gospel. About the Canaanites... check out what Chuck Missler says about them.
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:and now lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Matthew 10:28 New International Version 28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Soul is clearly not eternal in this example also
Wonderful scholarship by Mr Fudge, am forever grateful that these truths were uncovered within my lifetime. We know God's Word to be true, and previously were led to believe the 'traditional view' was the only view that honoured the text ... how very, very wrong we've been over all these centuries.
Lord of Lords, 1Ti 6:16 Who ONLY hath immortality, only God has an immortal soul. Not man. When ppl say we have a souls is wrong. Scripture state that we BECAME a living soul. Gen 2:7. I think ppl say we have a immortal soul in just a desperate attempt to uphold (eternal torment.)
I wish that more in my circle longed for an alternative to the "eternal conscious torment" doctrine. They're quite satisfied with a god who would be a monster by anyone else's standards. If this was the only error the "church" foisted upon them, I would be jubilant. It isn't.
Yeah, I don't understand people who actually get angry if someone suggests that eternal torment isn't true. I get that a lot of people have just had that belief shoved down their throats their whole lives and have been made to think that they just have to accept it. But the people who actually vehemently defend it and are angered at the thought of people not suffering for eternity? They honestly seem like psychopaths.
@@KamalaKackles That is totally NOT what idolatry means. It might be error, but not idolatry. You apparently don't have a grasp on that concept. I believe these folks may be right, though.... what purpose would it serve God to torment the lost for eons? We know that it's God desire that NO ONE should perish. We also know he gets no delight from the wicked perishing. When you add it all up, these guys can back up their stance in the Bible way more than the eternal torment folks. I'm still torn on the matter, but I'm leaning their way. They can show it through the Bible, not by "their human wishes."
Excellent presentation!!! I'm looking forward to reading Mr. Fudges' book. A while back I went through a rough period which included not being able to understand eternal conscious torment. I went on an internet search and discovered a teaching by Dirk Warren. I came to the conclusion of the eternal conscious torment idea is not biblical. Good to know that there are others of the same discovery and thankful for the extensive work Mr. Fudge has accomplished.
Hi Susan I have just received mr fudges two books and am going through them...good reads. There is also a movie based upon his experience...its called "hell and mr fudge" have you heard of it? Here is a website you might like...hell truth.com Gives some great history and biblical evidence of hell not being eternal conscious torment. blessings
you are right there is no place as hell only annihilation...but do you also know that you do not go to heaven when you die - you go to your grave and await the resurrection...did you also know - the Sabbath is friday evening to saturday evening and not Sunday---all these doctrines came from the either paganism or the Roman Catholic church - like limbo and purgatory--so if you want to discuss scripture contact me
@SunriseseXx ............the KJV is easy to memorize as it is written in a poetry style....and second to that would be NKJV....otherwise I would use the NASB
@SunriseseXx ...........do you now believe in annihilation as there is no place as hell...ow about the Sabbath doctrine and not Sunday as the lords day...did you also know man does not have a soul but is classified as a soul in KJV Gen. 2.7....keep learning
Possibly one summary is that the non-negotiable aspect of the doctrine of hell is that it represents "eternal separation from God". That is the core essence of damnation but a secondary point (that Christians can discuss, but shouldn't argue over) is the question as to how God chooses to implement eternal separation. There is support in scripture for eternal punishing (never ending torture) and also support in scripture for eternal punishment (utter destruction). Edward Fudge wrote a book called "The Fire That Consumes" and he is seen here giving a lecture on the topic if you are interested in seeing the scriptural support for "destruction" as God's manner of implementing eternal separation: ruclips.net/video/oHUPpmbTOV4/видео.html
The Bible teaches the worm dieth not and the fire is never quenched. it's removed in all modern versions. The worm that dieth not and the fire is never quneched. Everlasting fire is for real. This movie is a fake. Also, please be ye born again! "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:." - Romans 1:20 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;" - Romans 3:24-25 "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" - 1 Cori 15:1-4 “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.” - 1 Timonthy 1:15 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." - Ephesians 2:8 - 9 "But by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." - Hebrews 9:12 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." - 2 Timothy 2:15 "O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:" - 1 Tim 6:20 God Bless - Shawn Gospel is 1 Cori 15:1-5: How to be Saved is Romans 3:23-25, Eph 2:8-9, Hebrews 9:12 -How Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh, was born sinless by the Holy Ghost through Mary, lived a perfect life. -Was crucified, nailed to that cursed tree, shed his blood on Calvary, was buried and rose again on the 3rd day. -Ascending to heaven afterwards to put the liquid blood in the mercy seat to obtain eternal salvation for whosoever puts their faith alone in the blood atonement. - Not by works lest any man may boast; including good deeds, going to church, repenting of sins, tithing, sinners prayer, calling on the name of the Lord. Suggested Channel: Robert Breaker and read the King James Bible. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Hi @@GodisGracious1031Ministries, I'd be curious if you acknowledge that your first two sentences admit that the Bible has been tampered with by man? Of course the Bible has. Any person that does a deep study of the "problems of the Bible" always come away amazed at the number of outright errors, conflicting claims, ambiguity, and the stunningly unGodly doctrine, and unGodly portrayals of God and humanity. If the Bible proves itself to be an unreliable source of Truth then we have no excuse to take the attitude "hey, it's in the Bible so it must be true". If the Bible is invented by man -- instead of inspired by God -- then we would be very wise to reject it just as quickly as we might reject any of the other world religions that also claim to be inspired by God. We know the various world religions cannot be reconciled with one another, and hence the one thing we know with 100% certainty is that most are a deception invented by man. Is it possible that all of the world religions are? There are people that believe with all their heart that the Islamic holy books are the Word of God, others that the Mormon holy books are the word of God, others that the Christian Bible is the Word of God, etc. How many of those believers are utterly wrong about their heart felt beliefs? They can't all be on target. Are any of them? We need to remember that the Truth of God's existence is one thing, and the Truth of any particular world religion is quite another. Do you disagree with a single point I've made here?
Hi @GodisGracious1031Ministries, I'd be curious if you acknowledge that your first two sentences admit that the Bible has been tampered with by man? Of course the Bible has. Any person that does a deep study of the "problems of the Bible" always come away amazed at the number of outright errors, conflicting claims, ambiguity, and the stunningly unGodly doctrine, and unGodly portrayals of God and humanity. If the Bible proves itself to be an unreliable source of Truth then we have no excuse to take the attitude "hey, it's in the Bible so it must be true". If the Bible is invented by man -- instead of inspired by God -- then we would be very wise to reject it just as quickly as we might reject any of the other world religions that also claim to be inspired by God. We know the various world religions cannot be reconciled with one another, and hence the one thing we know with 100% certainty is that most are a deception invented by man. Is it possible that all of the world religions are? There are people that believe with all their heart that the Islamic holy books are the Word of God, others that the Mormon holy books are the word of God, others that the Christian Bible is the Word of God, etc. How many of those believers are utterly wrong about their heart felt beliefs? They can't all be on target. Are any of them? We need to remember that the Truth of God's existence is one thing, and the Truth of any particular world religion is quite another. Do you disagree with a single point I've made here?
@@GodisGracious1031Ministries It´s funny that you should mention Jesus´ quote on the worm that dieth not. That verse is actually one of the many reasons I´ve started to doubt the traditional view. The reason for this is that Jesus is quoting Isaiah 66:24, and when you compare that verse to verse 16 it´s pretty clear that the undying worm is an analogy for the great quantity of dead bodies, similar to Jesus saying "broad is the way that leadeth to destruction." Similarly, I used to think that "the smoke of their torment ascendeth for ever and ever" (Rev. 14:11) was an immoveable arguement against the annihilation point of view until in my personal study I read this same expression used in Isaiah 34:10 in reference to the land of Edom, where if clearly doesnt mean everlasting torment, but rather permanent and unrecoverable destruction, which is extremely obvious from the context. We must remember, "the greatest commentary of the Bible is the Bible itself" and before we interpret a verse on the spot, we should check and see if the rest of the Bible has further explanation. I´m starting to believe that the "traditional" view on this topic is exactly what it sounds like: "traditional", instead of Biblical, and that would make sense, considering that all the Catholic church heresies that exist, exist because that´s their "tradition".
Weren't the Canaanites the Rephaim; descendants of the Nephilim? This would make them hybrid creatures ie. not human. This would make it understandable as to why they had to be destroyed.
@@susanthroop7041 CORRECT! Heiser is amazing! He's changed the way I look at the Bible, especially those strange parts that people have got wrong for centuries.
@@susanthroop7041 Dr. Michael Heiser gave a lecture that the ancient Hebrews believed Earth was flat with a firmament above it. He acknowledged that the 1 Book of Enoch speaks about 200 fallen angels descending on Mt. Herman and they mated with earthly women to produce the Nephilim and that book speaks of a flat and stationary Earth.
Everybody is right right? What is apparent is much lovelessness, lack of humility, knowledge that’s puffed up as if we have God in our back pockets . The Bible says many things you understand it one way someone understands it another way. As much as you and I can be right we can be sadly wrong. We don’t see or know the end only God does. We all see through a glass darkly at the moment..
Except in this case the Bible is painfully clear. Souls are NOT immortal. To God ALONE belongs immortality. Immortality is imparted to us when Christ raises us at his second coming, which is the resurrection of the righteous, as opposed to the 2nd resurrection of the wicked, which takes place after the millennial reign and after the second and final world rebellion against God. Jesus Himself said that unlike men, God has the power to destroy both body AND soul in the lake of fire(Gehenna), where man can only kill the body, not the soul. The Bible is also clear of the fate of the wicked, that they are destroyed, perished, burned up, consumed, no more, dead, etc. It says it about as many ways as possible to indicate they are eliminated. There is not ONE verse that actually states we will suffer torment for eternity in the lake of fire. To hold on to the doctrine of eternal torment you literally have to translate all the verses to the contrary to say the exact opposite of what they do say. The destroyed, perish, death, burned up actually means living forever but in horrific conditions. Now the Bible does mention torment forever and ever about Satan and the Beast and False Prophet. But again, the literal translation is ages and ages. Since Satan is the inventor and author of ALLL the pain and suffering all living things have experienced on earth, it only makes sense that he would have to suffer for billions of years to pay for all the pain he caused. That's assuming the eye for an eye system of Justice God established in the Law. Now just a few verses later, it mentions the wicked being thrown in the lake of fire which is says, IS the second death. Now here would have been a perfect time to state that they would suffer the same fate as Satan and be tormented forever and ever, but it doesn't, it says their fate is death. IF their fate were really eternal torment, then God should plainly and clearly state such a fate. Why dance ALLLL around it and say everything BUT that. Even worse, use words that ANY normal person would interpret to mean, dead, gone, no more, eliminated, etc. Now the only other verse that seems to approach that teaching for people suffering such a fate has to do specifically with those that worship the beast in Rev 14:10. But even then it does not say they suffer torment in the lake of fire forever and ever, but rather the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. This is clearly figurative language, as it does not say THEY are tormented forever and ever. Also it's important to note that this is referring to a scene on this earth during the Bowls of Wrath of God's judgments, which is before the millennial reign, the second and final rebellion after the millennial reign and the Final Judgement where the wicked are cast into the lake of fire. This is judgment here on this earth. And it's the exact same language used to describe the fate of Babylon, both the city and the world system, in Rev 18 and 19. Now obviously Babylon is not going to exist forever and ever nor can it be tormented forever and ever. The Bible is clear, after the final judgment a new heaven and earth are created, so doubtful Babylon will still be around, with the smoke of its destruction continuing to rise. IF we are going to accuse God of such cruel and nonsensical judgment as eternal torture for a finite lifetime of sins, then we better have some seriously well documented proof of it, or we are blaspheming His name and character. Most of the traditionalist's view of eternal torment comes from pagan religions. The Greek influence was strong in the Hellenized Jews and even Paul had to deal with Gnosticism infiltrating the Church. It only got worse after Constantine realized he couldn't defeat Christianity, so he co-opted it and paganized it. These teachings so infiltrated the church most people never stopped to actually look at what the Bible says. Instead, they start with the false pagan premise that we are born with immortal souls, that we must suffer for eternity if we die in our sins and then use any verse that seems to go along with that as proof, but then ignore or flat out change the definition of words to mean their exact opposite in all the verses that directly contradict it.
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:and now lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Did God, the most righteous one, put into the fruit the knowledge of good and evil? Also, did not even Abraham say, (I being only dust) beseech thee, will not the Lord of all the Earth do right?! The Answer is not just right but merciful!! I would tremble and be honest with the Lord of all the Earth, being lower than the great Abraham but still say, nay Lord, I can't accept that the traditional view of hell is true, not to even a harsh God would do such a thing.
I absolutely hope annihilation is right, BUT Revelation 14:9-11 says, "If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath...and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have NO REST, day or night." If they were annihilated out of existence, then the statement no rest day or night makes no sense. Revelation 20:10 says, "And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be TORMENTED day and night FOREVER and ever. . .Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if ANYONE"S name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." By the way, the word torment is translated from the Greek word Basanismos, and it means to torture. It absolutely does NOT mean to annihilate and put out of existence.
What is the point of the second death though if hell as it exists in the traditionalist's mind is basically the lake of fire? Why send people to burn in hell and then send them to another place to continue burning forever? And how can death and hades burn forever if they're not entities? It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me if I follow that particular argument.
How about Ezequiel 28:18-19? Is there anything there that speaks of eternal torment? I also used to think as you think, but then I noticed that this passage referes specifically to those who worship the beast. When considering this, we must also remember that in Rev. 9:6 will death will flee from these people. Why is that? Is the mark of the beast a sort of subscription to a Satanic version of eternal life? Also, Read Isaiah 34:10 and it´s context and you will see that the "smoke of their torment" going up forever and ever is an analogy for permanent and irreversible destruction
@Daisy Fields Eternal damnation is punishing someone forever for sins not committed forever. It's out of proportion and quite frankly smells of the idea of sick people. Annihilism still means that people get destroyed (assuming they want to live forever) so the best universe that can be created is one where 90%+ of people don't make it. That's disappointing. Universalism isn't biblically supported except taking a verse here and there like "Every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord". Those who confess Jesus will be saved. That ignores most of the rest of the bible.
@@delltawnnorthri7459 Annihilism still means that people get destroyed (assuming they want to live forever) so the best universe that can be created is one where 90%+ of people don't make it. That's disappointing.
@Daisy Fields Yeah I don't really think God fails like that. The bible says so but the bible says lots of silly things. Talking donkeys, snakes, boats floating around the world with billions of species of animals on board, mass infant genocides and more incoherent things than you can shake a stick at. I think God won't fail because he's God. I choose to think better of God - because I have no reason not to.
@Daisy Fields I think God is bigger and better than the picture you paint. If you go off the bible you can come to that pessimistic belief. From a personnel walk with him, I think there are A LOT more things we don't know or will never be told. God bless anyway. Take care.
How is God the Father aborting the very souls He creates- out of existence forever, ontologically sound or more Scripturally true than eternal torture?
To me, the ubiquity of disagreement in the theological world amply demonstrates the futility of arguing about the doctrine of hell or any other doctrine. In other words the multiplicity of human points of view makes theological doctrines inevitably and endlessly debatable. Therefore, an "objective" view of hell does not exist.
I think you trip up over your own words...the bible was not written for the purpose of ambiguity. We are not interested in human beliefs but what God teaches...so don't get lost in philosophical concepts , read the bible in context.
if one accepts your logic then there is no truth because not all agree...Jesus did not speak truth so that his listeners would not understand, if you are so dedicated in pursuing truth read the book or go on line and listen to - edward fudge the fire that consumes...as they say - put your money where your mouth is...do some serious study...there is no eternal hell fire...the fir egoes out once the person is burned up..malachi 4. 1-3 psalm 37.20
Debunked - whenever I see someone use that word I already know they are only attempting to discredit and not to understand. I didn't say agree, I said understand.
The worm that dieth not and the fire is never quneched. Everlasting fire is for real. This movie is a fake. Also, please be ye born again! "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:." - Romans 1:20 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;" - Romans 3:24-25 "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" - 1 Cori 15:1-4 “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.” - 1 Timonthy 1:15 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." - Ephesians 2:8 - 9 "But by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." - Hebrews 9:12 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." - 2 Timothy 2:15 "O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:" - 1 Tim 6:20 God Bless - Shawn Gospel is 1 Cori 15:1-5: How to be Saved is Romans 3:23-25, Eph 2:8-9, Hebrews 9:12 -How Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh, was born sinless by the Holy Ghost through Mary, lived a perfect life. -Was crucified, nailed to that cursed tree, shed his blood on Calvary, was buried and rose again on the 3rd day. -Ascending to heaven afterwards to put the liquid blood in the mercy seat to obtain eternal salvation for whosoever puts their faith alone in the blood atonement. - Not by works lest any man may boast; including good deeds, going to church, repenting of sins, tithing, sinners prayer, calling on the name of the Lord. Suggested Channel: Robert Breaker and read the King James Bible. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Hi @GodisGracious1031Ministries, I'd be curious if you acknowledge that your first two sentences admit that the Bible has been tampered with by man? Of course the Bible has. Any person that does a deep study of the "problems of the Bible" always come away amazed at the number of outright errors, conflicting claims, ambiguity, and the stunningly unGodly doctrine, and unGodly portrayals of God and humanity. If the Bible proves itself to be an unreliable source of Truth then we have no excuse to take the attitude "hey, it's in the Bible so it must be true". If the Bible is invented by man -- instead of inspired by God -- then we would be very wise to reject it just as quickly as we might reject any of the other world religions that also claim to be inspired by God. We know the various world religions cannot be reconciled with one another, and hence the one thing we know with 100% certainty is that most are a deception invented by man. Is it possible that all of the world religions are? There are people that believe with all their heart that the Islamic holy books are the Word of God, others that the Mormon holy books are the word of God, others that the Christian Bible is the Word of God, etc. How many of those believers are utterly wrong about their heart felt beliefs? They can't all be on target. Are any of them? We need to remember that the Truth of God's existence is one thing, and the Truth of any particular world religion is quite another. Do you disagree with a single point I've made here?
number nine Lord of Lords, 1Ti 6:16 Who ONLY hath immortality, only God has an immortal soul. Not man. When ppl say we have a souls is wrong. Scripture state that we BECAME a living soul. Gen 2:7. I think ppl say we have a immortal soul in just a desperate attempt to uphold (eternal torment.)
IT must have really touched you on a subconscious level or you wouldn't have wasted time to write this. I've struggled with eternal torment my whole life. It just didn't add up, and come to find out, it doesn't really add up with scripture either. Plato and Dante are mainly where we get our concept of eternal fire and brimstone from.
God’s character is holy and righteous. He is a righteous God and judges clearly and with mercy and grace! He is beyond our comprehension, but has revealed himself through his son Jesus Christ! His character is without blemish, but He forgives our sin. He does not throw sinners into eternal torment, but they cease to exist. Those who believe in Him and his son Jesus Christ have eternal life, a gift from God.
Stated very well.
He said He will lose no one whom the Father gives Him, and somewhere else He says, when He is raised up, He will draw all to Himself.
Maybe no one will even ever die the second death.
God has told people things to believe that were useful for the time they are given, and later abolished.
The new covenant aboloshed a many things the old covenant supposedly held as truth.
Even the idea of the messiah was different in the past prior to Jesus.
New to this study.. one question I'm having - what happens to those who die before the age of accountability?
@@SomethingStacyDeut.24:16 states that each person will be accountable for his own sin.
As humans we start life in the dispensation of innocence and as we grow into knowledge we merge into a different bracket of standards. So if a child dies in innocence what sin would he or she be judged for?
@@SomethingStacyhi there. Here is a passage from Deuteronomy 1 which I think answers this. I'm quoting the King James just because I find its language really beautiful
Also the LORD was angry with me for your sakes, saying, Thou also shalt not go in thither. But Joshua the son of Nun, which standeth before thee, he shall go in thither: encourage him: for he shall cause Israel to inherit it. Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it. But as for you, turn you, and take your journey into the wilderness by the way of the Red sea.
As for any who would somehow object, "but wouldn't these little kids be guilty of Adam's sin?"
Here is Ezekiel 18:
Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live. (HERE'S THE PART) The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
And Jesus,
And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
Good word. ECT is based on an assumption that is not stated in the Bible, that people are eternal beings. Eternal life is ONLY offered as a gift for receiving the Gospel. About the Canaanites... check out what Chuck Missler says about them.
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:and now lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Matthew 10:28
New International Version
28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Soul is clearly not eternal in this example also
Wonderful scholarship by Mr Fudge, am forever grateful that these truths were uncovered within my lifetime. We know God's Word to be true, and previously were led to believe the 'traditional view' was the only view that honoured the text ... how very, very wrong we've been over all these centuries.
A wonderful lecture and a fascinating presentation. I found it to be very helpful.
Lord of Lords, 1Ti 6:16 Who ONLY hath immortality, only God has an immortal soul. Not man.
When ppl say we have a souls is wrong. Scripture state that we BECAME a living soul. Gen 2:7. I think ppl say we have a immortal soul in just a desperate attempt to uphold (eternal torment.)
Wonderful sermon, God bless this man
I wish that more in my circle longed for an alternative to the "eternal conscious torment" doctrine. They're quite satisfied with a god who would be a monster by anyone else's standards. If this was the only error the "church" foisted upon them, I would be jubilant. It isn't.
I'm so glad someone else thinks this. Me too. The problem I'm left struggling with is looking at these Christians as brainwashed and quite ill.
Yeah, I don't understand people who actually get angry if someone suggests that eternal torment isn't true. I get that a lot of people have just had that belief shoved down their throats their whole lives and have been made to think that they just have to accept it. But the people who actually vehemently defend it and are angered at the thought of people not suffering for eternity? They honestly seem like psychopaths.
Theological Voluntarism is the deeper issue here.
What you are wishing for is called idolatry. It’s creating a God to fit your desires.
@@KamalaKackles That is totally NOT what idolatry means. It might be error, but not idolatry. You apparently don't have a grasp on that concept. I believe these folks may be right, though.... what purpose would it serve God to torment the lost for eons? We know that it's God desire that NO ONE should perish. We also know he gets no delight from the wicked perishing. When you add it all up, these guys can back up their stance in the Bible way more than the eternal torment folks. I'm still torn on the matter, but I'm leaning their way. They can show it through the Bible, not by "their human wishes."
Excellent presentation!!! I'm looking forward to reading Mr. Fudges' book. A while back I went through a rough period which included not being able to understand eternal conscious torment. I went on an internet search and discovered a teaching by Dirk Warren. I came to the conclusion of the eternal conscious torment idea is not biblical. Good to know that there are others of the same discovery and thankful for the extensive work Mr. Fudge has accomplished.
Hi Susan I have just received mr fudges two books and am going through them...good reads. There is also a movie based upon his experience...its called "hell and mr fudge" have you heard of it?
Here is a website you might like...hell truth.com
Gives some great history and biblical evidence of hell not being eternal conscious torment.
blessings
you are right there is no place as hell only annihilation...but do you also know that you do not go to heaven when you die - you go to your grave and await the resurrection...did you also know - the Sabbath is friday evening to saturday evening and not Sunday---all these doctrines came from the either paganism or the Roman Catholic church - like limbo and purgatory--so if you want to discuss scripture contact me
Amen!
@SunriseseXx ............the KJV is easy to memorize as it is written in a poetry style....and second to that would be NKJV....otherwise I would use the NASB
@SunriseseXx ...........do you now believe in annihilation as there is no place as hell...ow about the Sabbath doctrine and not Sunday as the lords day...did you also know man does not have a soul but is classified as a soul in KJV Gen. 2.7....keep learning
So good. Praise God.
Spirit filled sermon!
there is no hell only annihilation but the sinner is still punished in that process - so we all pay for our sins unless we are believers in God
Possibly one summary is that the non-negotiable aspect of the doctrine of hell is that it represents "eternal separation from God". That is the core essence of damnation but a secondary point (that Christians can discuss, but shouldn't argue over) is the question as to how God chooses to implement eternal separation. There is support in scripture for eternal punishing (never ending torture) and also support in scripture for eternal punishment (utter destruction). Edward Fudge wrote a book called "The Fire That Consumes" and he is seen here giving a lecture on the topic if you are interested in seeing the scriptural support for "destruction" as God's manner of implementing eternal separation: ruclips.net/video/oHUPpmbTOV4/видео.html
The Bible teaches the worm dieth not and the fire is never quenched. it's removed in all modern versions.
The worm that dieth not and the fire is never quneched. Everlasting fire is for real. This movie is a fake. Also, please be ye born again!
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:." - Romans 1:20
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;" - Romans 3:24-25
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" - 1 Cori 15:1-4
“This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.” - 1 Timonthy 1:15
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." - Ephesians 2:8 - 9
"But by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." - Hebrews 9:12
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." - 2 Timothy 2:15
"O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:" - 1 Tim 6:20
God Bless
- Shawn
Gospel is 1 Cori 15:1-5: How to be Saved is Romans 3:23-25, Eph 2:8-9, Hebrews 9:12
-How Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh, was born sinless by the Holy Ghost through Mary, lived a perfect life.
-Was crucified, nailed to that cursed tree, shed his blood on Calvary, was buried and rose again on the 3rd day.
-Ascending to heaven afterwards to put the liquid blood in the mercy seat to obtain eternal salvation for whosoever puts their faith alone in the blood atonement.
- Not by works lest any man may boast; including good deeds, going to church, repenting of sins, tithing, sinners prayer, calling on the name of the Lord.
Suggested Channel: Robert Breaker and read the King James Bible. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Hi @@GodisGracious1031Ministries, I'd be curious if you acknowledge that your first two sentences admit that the Bible has been tampered with by man? Of course the Bible has. Any person that does a deep study of the "problems of the Bible" always come away amazed at the number of outright errors, conflicting claims, ambiguity, and the stunningly unGodly doctrine, and unGodly portrayals of God and humanity. If the Bible proves itself to be an unreliable source of Truth then we have no excuse to take the attitude "hey, it's in the Bible so it must be true". If the Bible is invented by man -- instead of inspired by God -- then we would be very wise to reject it just as quickly as we might reject any of the other world religions that also claim to be inspired by God. We know the various world religions cannot be reconciled with one another, and hence the one thing we know with 100% certainty is that most are a deception invented by man. Is it possible that all of the world religions are? There are people that believe with all their heart that the Islamic holy books are the Word of God, others that the Mormon holy books are the word of God, others that the Christian Bible is the Word of God, etc. How many of those believers are utterly wrong about their heart felt beliefs? They can't all be on target. Are any of them? We need to remember that the Truth of God's existence is one thing, and the Truth of any particular world religion is quite another. Do you disagree with a single point I've made here?
Hi @GodisGracious1031Ministries, I'd be curious if you acknowledge that your first two sentences admit that the Bible has been tampered with by man? Of course the Bible has. Any person that does a deep study of the "problems of the Bible" always come away amazed at the number of outright errors, conflicting claims, ambiguity, and the stunningly unGodly doctrine, and unGodly portrayals of God and humanity. If the Bible proves itself to be an unreliable source of Truth then we have no excuse to take the attitude "hey, it's in the Bible so it must be true". If the Bible is invented by man -- instead of inspired by God -- then we would be very wise to reject it just as quickly as we might reject any of the other world religions that also claim to be inspired by God. We know the various world religions cannot be reconciled with one another, and hence the one thing we know with 100% certainty is that most are a deception invented by man. Is it possible that all of the world religions are? There are people that believe with all their heart that the Islamic holy books are the Word of God, others that the Mormon holy books are the word of God, others that the Christian Bible is the Word of God, etc. How many of those believers are utterly wrong about their heart felt beliefs? They can't all be on target. Are any of them? We need to remember that the Truth of God's existence is one thing, and the Truth of any particular world religion is quite another. Do you disagree with a single point I've made here?
@@GodisGracious1031Ministries It´s funny that you should mention Jesus´ quote on the worm that dieth not. That verse is actually one of the many reasons I´ve started to doubt the traditional view. The reason for this is that Jesus is quoting Isaiah 66:24, and when you compare that verse to verse 16 it´s pretty clear that the undying worm is an analogy for the great quantity of dead bodies, similar to Jesus saying "broad is the way that leadeth to destruction."
Similarly, I used to think that "the smoke of their torment ascendeth for ever and ever" (Rev. 14:11) was an immoveable arguement against the annihilation point of view until in my personal study I read this same expression used in Isaiah 34:10 in reference to the land of Edom, where if clearly doesnt mean everlasting torment, but rather permanent and unrecoverable destruction, which is extremely obvious from the context.
We must remember, "the greatest commentary of the Bible is the Bible itself" and before we interpret a verse on the spot, we should check and see if the rest of the Bible has further explanation.
I´m starting to believe that the "traditional" view on this topic is exactly what it sounds like: "traditional", instead of Biblical, and that would make sense, considering that all the Catholic church heresies that exist, exist because that´s their "tradition".
Its still everlasting fire with torment.
Rob Mcray give Unseen Realm by Dr Mike Heiser a read for some answers on the Canaanites!
Weren't the Canaanites the Rephaim; descendants of the Nephilim? This would make them hybrid creatures ie. not human. This would make it understandable as to why they had to be destroyed.
@@susanthroop7041 CORRECT! Heiser is amazing! He's changed the way I look at the Bible, especially those strange parts that people have got wrong for centuries.
I love Mike. He's one of my favorites. He's honest and doesn't force the Bible through our traditions.
@@susanthroop7041 Dr. Michael Heiser gave a lecture that the ancient Hebrews believed Earth was flat with a firmament above it. He acknowledged that the 1 Book of Enoch speaks about 200 fallen angels descending on Mt. Herman and they mated with earthly women to produce the Nephilim and that book speaks of a flat and stationary Earth.
Everybody is right right? What is apparent is much lovelessness, lack of humility, knowledge that’s puffed up as if we have God in our back pockets . The Bible says many things you understand it one way someone understands it another way. As much as you and I can be right we can be sadly wrong. We don’t see or know the end only God does. We all see through a glass darkly at the moment..
Except in this case the Bible is painfully clear. Souls are NOT immortal. To God ALONE belongs immortality. Immortality is imparted to us when Christ raises us at his second coming, which is the resurrection of the righteous, as opposed to the 2nd resurrection of the wicked, which takes place after the millennial reign and after the second and final world rebellion against God.
Jesus Himself said that unlike men, God has the power to destroy both body AND soul in the lake of fire(Gehenna), where man can only kill the body, not the soul.
The Bible is also clear of the fate of the wicked, that they are destroyed, perished, burned up, consumed, no more, dead, etc. It says it about as many ways as possible to indicate they are eliminated. There is not ONE verse that actually states we will suffer torment for eternity in the lake of fire. To hold on to the doctrine of eternal torment you literally have to translate all the verses to the contrary to say the exact opposite of what they do say. The destroyed, perish, death, burned up actually means living forever but in horrific conditions.
Now the Bible does mention torment forever and ever about Satan and the Beast and False Prophet. But again, the literal translation is ages and ages. Since Satan is the inventor and author of ALLL the pain and suffering all living things have experienced on earth, it only makes sense that he would have to suffer for billions of years to pay for all the pain he caused. That's assuming the eye for an eye system of Justice God established in the Law.
Now just a few verses later, it mentions the wicked being thrown in the lake of fire which is says, IS the second death. Now here would have been a perfect time to state that they would suffer the same fate as Satan and be tormented forever and ever, but it doesn't, it says their fate is death. IF their fate were really eternal torment, then God should plainly and clearly state such a fate. Why dance ALLLL around it and say everything BUT that. Even worse, use words that ANY normal person would interpret to mean, dead, gone, no more, eliminated, etc.
Now the only other verse that seems to approach that teaching for people suffering such a fate has to do specifically with those that worship the beast in Rev 14:10. But even then it does not say they suffer torment in the lake of fire forever and ever, but rather the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. This is clearly figurative language, as it does not say THEY are tormented forever and ever. Also it's important to note that this is referring to a scene on this earth during the Bowls of Wrath of God's judgments, which is before the millennial reign, the second and final rebellion after the millennial reign and the Final Judgement where the wicked are cast into the lake of fire. This is judgment here on this earth. And it's the exact same language used to describe the fate of Babylon, both the city and the world system, in Rev 18 and 19. Now obviously Babylon is not going to exist forever and ever nor can it be tormented forever and ever. The Bible is clear, after the final judgment a new heaven and earth are created, so doubtful Babylon will still be around, with the smoke of its destruction continuing to rise.
IF we are going to accuse God of such cruel and nonsensical judgment as eternal torture for a finite lifetime of sins, then we better have some seriously well documented proof of it, or we are blaspheming His name and character.
Most of the traditionalist's view of eternal torment comes from pagan religions. The Greek influence was strong in the Hellenized Jews and even Paul had to deal with Gnosticism infiltrating the Church. It only got worse after Constantine realized he couldn't defeat Christianity, so he co-opted it and paganized it. These teachings so infiltrated the church most people never stopped to actually look at what the Bible says. Instead, they start with the false pagan premise that we are born with immortal souls, that we must suffer for eternity if we die in our sins and then use any verse that seems to go along with that as proof, but then ignore or flat out change the definition of words to mean their exact opposite in all the verses that directly contradict it.
Robert. Cows,goldfish and all other animals will die once. They will not face a judgement and second death
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:and now lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Jesus to God to forgive them for they no not what they do when they killed him y would he burn them when when he forgave them all ready humm
Did God, the most righteous one, put into the fruit the knowledge of good and evil? Also, did not even Abraham say, (I being only dust) beseech thee, will not the Lord of all the Earth do right?! The Answer is not just right but merciful!! I would tremble and be honest with the Lord of all the Earth, being lower than the great Abraham but still say, nay Lord, I can't accept that the traditional view of hell is true, not to even a harsh God would do such a thing.
Hold the camera still! You're giving me a headache! LOL
😂
I absolutely hope annihilation is right, BUT Revelation 14:9-11 says, "If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath...and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have NO REST, day or night." If they were annihilated out of existence, then the statement no rest day or night makes no sense. Revelation 20:10 says, "And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be TORMENTED day and night FOREVER and ever. . .Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if ANYONE"S name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." By the way, the word torment is translated from the Greek word Basanismos, and it means to torture. It absolutely does NOT mean to annihilate and put out of existence.
What is the point of the second death though if hell as it exists in the traditionalist's mind is basically the lake of fire? Why send people to burn in hell and then send them to another place to continue burning forever? And how can death and hades burn forever if they're not entities? It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me if I follow that particular argument.
How about Ezequiel 28:18-19? Is there anything there that speaks of eternal torment? I also used to think as you think, but then I noticed that this passage referes specifically to those who worship the beast. When considering this, we must also remember that in Rev. 9:6 will death will flee from these people. Why is that? Is the mark of the beast a sort of subscription to a Satanic version of eternal life?
Also, Read Isaiah 34:10 and it´s context and you will see that the "smoke of their torment" going up forever and ever is an analogy for permanent and irreversible destruction
Eternal damnation is abhorrent. Annihilism is disappointing. Universalism is wishful thinking.
To which do you subscribe, if you are Chistian. I don't understand why the one is disappointing?
@Daisy Fields Eternal damnation is punishing someone forever for sins not committed forever. It's out of proportion and quite frankly smells of the idea of sick people.
Annihilism still means that people get destroyed (assuming they want to live forever) so the best universe that can be created is one where 90%+ of people don't make it. That's disappointing.
Universalism isn't biblically supported except taking a verse here and there like "Every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord". Those who confess Jesus will be saved. That ignores most of the rest of the bible.
@@delltawnnorthri7459 Annihilism still means that people get destroyed (assuming they want to live forever) so the best universe that can be created is one where 90%+ of people don't make it. That's disappointing.
@Daisy Fields Yeah I don't really think God fails like that. The bible says so but the bible says lots of silly things. Talking donkeys, snakes, boats floating around the world with billions of species of animals on board, mass infant genocides and more incoherent things than you can shake a stick at.
I think God won't fail because he's God. I choose to think better of God - because I have no reason not to.
@Daisy Fields I think God is bigger and better than the picture you paint. If you go off the bible you can come to that pessimistic belief. From a personnel walk with him, I think there are A LOT more things we don't know or will never be told. God bless anyway. Take care.
How is God the Father aborting the very souls He creates- out of existence forever, ontologically sound or more Scripturally true than eternal torture?
Watch after first one
To me, the ubiquity of disagreement in the theological world amply demonstrates the futility of arguing about the doctrine of hell or any other doctrine. In other words the multiplicity of human points of view makes theological doctrines inevitably and endlessly debatable. Therefore, an "objective" view of hell does not exist.
I think you trip up over your own words...the bible was not written for the purpose of ambiguity. We are not interested in human beliefs but what God teaches...so don't get lost in philosophical concepts , read the bible in context.
EllipticalKnives nonsense
if one accepts your logic then there is no truth because not all agree...Jesus did not speak truth so that his listeners would not understand, if you are so dedicated in pursuing truth read the book or go on line and listen to - edward fudge the fire that consumes...as they say - put your money where your mouth is...do some serious study...there is no eternal hell fire...the fir egoes out once the person is burned up..malachi 4. 1-3 psalm 37.20
Truth is not debatable and you can know it. John 8:32 King James Version (KJV)
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
“Professing to be wise they became fools”
Judging by a few of the comments, it really hurts to have your cherished, but mistaken beliefs so thoroughly destroyed and debunked.
Debunked - whenever I see someone use that word I already know they are only attempting to discredit and not to understand. I didn't say agree, I said understand.
The worm that dieth not and the fire is never quneched. Everlasting fire is for real. This movie is a fake. Also, please be ye born again!
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:." - Romans 1:20
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;" - Romans 3:24-25
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" - 1 Cori 15:1-4
“This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.” - 1 Timonthy 1:15
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." - Ephesians 2:8 - 9
"But by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." - Hebrews 9:12
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." - 2 Timothy 2:15
"O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:" - 1 Tim 6:20
God Bless
- Shawn
Gospel is 1 Cori 15:1-5: How to be Saved is Romans 3:23-25, Eph 2:8-9, Hebrews 9:12
-How Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh, was born sinless by the Holy Ghost through Mary, lived a perfect life.
-Was crucified, nailed to that cursed tree, shed his blood on Calvary, was buried and rose again on the 3rd day.
-Ascending to heaven afterwards to put the liquid blood in the mercy seat to obtain eternal salvation for whosoever puts their faith alone in the blood atonement.
- Not by works lest any man may boast; including good deeds, going to church, repenting of sins, tithing, sinners prayer, calling on the name of the Lord.
Suggested Channel: Robert Breaker and read the King James Bible. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Hi @GodisGracious1031Ministries, I'd be curious if you acknowledge that your first two sentences admit that the Bible has been tampered with by man? Of course the Bible has. Any person that does a deep study of the "problems of the Bible" always come away amazed at the number of outright errors, conflicting claims, ambiguity, and the stunningly unGodly doctrine, and unGodly portrayals of God and humanity. If the Bible proves itself to be an unreliable source of Truth then we have no excuse to take the attitude "hey, it's in the Bible so it must be true". If the Bible is invented by man -- instead of inspired by God -- then we would be very wise to reject it just as quickly as we might reject any of the other world religions that also claim to be inspired by God. We know the various world religions cannot be reconciled with one another, and hence the one thing we know with 100% certainty is that most are a deception invented by man. Is it possible that all of the world religions are? There are people that believe with all their heart that the Islamic holy books are the Word of God, others that the Mormon holy books are the word of God, others that the Christian Bible is the Word of God, etc. How many of those believers are utterly wrong about their heart felt beliefs? They can't all be on target. Are any of them? We need to remember that the Truth of God's existence is one thing, and the Truth of any particular world religion is quite another. Do you disagree with a single point I've made here?
Jesus is our Savior, and God wins. The Nicene creed is the essential doctrine...the rest is denominational opinion.
10 minutes in. And it’s been all feelings and man centered thought. I’m still waiting for Biblical reasons.
pick a name that suggests you are an adult and not a fool who can't be taken seriously -
@@DavidKing-qd3sp Be intelligent enough to understand the meaning behind the name.
@@KamalaKackles .......a diaper is a diaper
@@DavidKing-qd3sp That’s a simple minded statement. Remove your mind from the potty and think of it as a metaphor.
@@KamalaKackles .....why don't you find another metaphor that would reflect maturity
note to self: do not listen to this.
number nine Lord of Lords, 1Ti 6:16 Who ONLY hath immortality, only God has an immortal soul. Not man.
When ppl say we have a souls is wrong. Scripture state that we BECAME a living soul. Gen 2:7. I think ppl say we have a immortal soul in just a desperate attempt to uphold (eternal torment.)
Why not? Blocking truth?
IT must have really touched you on a subconscious level or you wouldn't have wasted time to write this. I've struggled with eternal torment my whole life. It just didn't add up, and come to find out, it doesn't really add up with scripture either. Plato and Dante are mainly where we get our concept of eternal fire and brimstone from.