Edward Fudge is a bit of a hero to me. I had come to this conclusion on my own before ever learning the term "Conditional Immortality" or "Annihilationism". But I wasn't satisfied because I knew I needed to study it more. I wasn't searching for "comfort", although I did have a problem with the traditional view in my heart. When I discovered Edward's work, he helped wrap it up and give me more certainty on the subject. Now I can quote ALL the Scriptures on the topic and easily make them make sense. If you don't believe this view yet, keep studying! It's not a Salvation issue, but it's important to bring in new believers!
This guy is an absolute legend. So much packed in there and extremely thorough from every angle. I hope and pray that one day soon the abominable doctrine of eternal conscious torment will be annihilated.
Just look at what the Bible says about this subject.....one google search is sufficient.....Matt 3:12 - His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
@@janejane5281 Actually it only means it cannot be put out until it accomplishes it's purpose. It is like fires today that are not able to be controlled even with the best of tactics and resources. unquenchable means it cannot be put out prematurely.
Wonderful exposition ... I'm grateful that Mr Fudge had the open mind, humility and intellectual honesty to tackle this subject, where his research has made it very apparent that the mainstream church has picked up a lot of non-biblical nonsense over the centuries masquerading as truth. Thank you sir for the light you brought on this whole subject and present so eloquently ... RIP.
@@philipbuckley759 He pointed right toward His Father and the cross, and in the worst case (for the lost/unsaved) He clearly told about Conditional Immortality/Annihilationism. He NEVER ONCE spoke about eternal conscious torment
Yes God is often better than mans ideas of Him. Eternal Conscious Torment is based upon a false unbiblical notion that man has an immortal soul. In the Garden of Eden immortality was accessible by having access to the tree of life. therefore immortality was then, and is now conditional. God bestows it upon whomever he choses and never to the unrepentant. For that reason Scripture describes the eternal state of unrepentant wicked as Death, Perishing and other similar terms when counted there are hundreds of such texts. Those opposing this view hold to one or two texts that seem to favor there view but the overwhelming evidence supports Edward's view. Note Edward knows this is not a salvation issue like believing the gospel of what Jesus accomplished on behalf of man but this teaching is important to explaining what the Bible teaches.
thank you for your kind thoughts toward Edward and his family. He rests in a grave awaiting a immortal and indestructible body. His health had disintegrated to the point he welcomed going to the grave to wait the glorious return of his Savior.
This is AMAZING! God is goood! I've been praying and pouring into the Word for myself after a life of rebellion and knew it was way different than I'd ever heard in any church service. Its going on 3 yrs where He has made it possible that I have the opportunity to do nothing but study, but being convicted that this is truth, along with prior questions about how an uneducated, unfruitful, and rebellious brute beast that I am, how then will I know when I'm operating in the works before ordained by the Father rather than being overzealous? Any guidance or feedback would be appreciated. I feel as though I know your answer will be in the ballpark of prayer and presented rather than forced opportunity but none the less look forward to any discipling you might offer. Thank you and God bless in the name of our King and High Priest Jesus Christ!
I have most of Edward's videos on my channel. he also has a Website that is being maintained by his family since he passed. there are many free materials as well as some information on book for sale and a plug for a Hollywood movie based on his life. www.edwardfudge.com
Me too - I hope you don't suffer about it anymore. For one thing, how can you enjoy the love of Christ while being terrified all the time that you'll go to Hell?
I don't know if this is true or not but I can say that between the doctrine of election which I only learned about a couple years ago plus the doctrine of eternal punishment I completely fell off and became a fallen hedonist. I'm not proud of that, I eventually submitted to God that whatever He did or will do is Just. But being a good student of the Bible I had noticed this disparity myself, and still haven't reconciled entirely my views. But I have noticed the descriptions of the end of the wicked as annihilated far out number eternal punishment. But again I submit to you all God is just. Whichever He does will be seen as Just on the Last Day.
very true. God seems to lead us even despite our waywardness. he will keep the light on for you. keep the faith. the key on doctrine is finding how better it gives us an understanding of God if you do not see how a doctrine leads to a greater understanding of the great work accomplished for you in the Son it may not be all that essential to dwell on. gracEmail was a ministry by Edward that dealt with very diverse questions and is no longer going out bi weekly but is available on many topics. go to www.edwardfudge.com and search for the gracEmail archives. I found it very insightful if you have questions you wish to get answers for..
If you’re interested in hearing another interpretation on election, check out Greg Boyd’s hour or so long presentations on Open Theism, he helped me a lot as well. God bless you and I hope you can find peace in the ideas of who God is and how he relates to us.
Good comment. Thanks. Probably many of us have been on that circular journey. I believe Father’s predestination is the PLAN of salvation. He says “whosoever will may come.” “I will draw all men unto me.” “God would that all men would be saved.” “Choose you this day whom you will serve.” Etc. And I would love to believe there is no eternally tormenting hell (that has been my hardest reality to face). But what do I do with Luke 16: 19-31? Here is what I know, 1971 at the age of 21, I shook an angry finger in God’s face and asked Him if He was real and gave a damn about me I wanted Him to show me. I supernaturally (as in, a Saul of Tarsus experience) encountered the Living One Elohim of the Universe and He showed me Yeshua on the cross. My life forever changed (for the better-as I learned to walk in obedience to Him). He is real. I trust He knows what He is doing.
The soul that sins dies, not lingers endlessly; that's why God makes a big deal out of people putting themselves into position for Him to restore them to access to the tree of life.
I am relieved to have seen this and as a result have total confidence in a REAL Loving God. Why would a loving God torment his unbelieving creations on account of a rebellious Angel demon simply because we were given free will in the first place. It doesn't make sense, yes Jesus was sacrificed for of which I am grateful and a way out , BUT a supreme creator would surely not unleash his ultimate wrath eternally on the unbelieving since a choice was given on the basis of either belief in his son's word or turn to a rebellious Angel who caused wickedness before we even came on the scene. To me that kind of God is like a angry child upset at some of his toy soldiers falling over when trying to stand them up, I don't believe in a supreme being with the temper of human children.
while all that you say is true Edward prefers to examine Scripture for what it says about the matter. Since it shows exactly what you say, it is irresponsible of Christians to present something other than what Scripture teaches. thanks for your support.
I hope everyone understands the logical extension here. That is, that those who die are asleep until the resurrection. Remember the discussion Jesus had with the sister of Lazarus just before Jesus raised him? She said I know he will live again on the last day... So, this also means something else. There is no Rapture. People sleep in Jesus until he returns - as the lightning shines from east to west, so shall the coming of the Son of Man be... It will be a BIG event, "every eye will see Him". It is no secret. It will be known by all, and He will return with "The voice of the Archangel" - It will be loud.
Important to note Edward did not take this as a logical extension. he claimed the intermediate state was not as clear in Scripture as was the end of the wicked. For that reason he left this out of his discussion of the matter. he did not say yes to your idea or no to it. he preferred not to take a stand either way. I am not as agnostic as he on the matter But you need to know and respect his view.as do I
@@fleetwd1 I don't think you understand what he meant by that. He absolutely is a conditionalist. What he is saying is he is leaving the final decision to each of us. He knows the contention that this topic generates. This is why he skillfully presents all the sides. Secondly, you do not understand what I am saying. I am perfectly in line with his same assumptions. Note what I said. I said that the logical extension if you accept conditional immortality is that there can be no rapture. I am not telling you what to think, or anyone else. I am just adding another conclusion that would have to be inferred by accepting conditional immortality. By the way, there are other scriptures that demonstrate conditional immortality, or at minimum, that man does not have an immortal soul. But perhaps the most significant statement that Mr Funk has stated over and over. That is that it is beyond belief to think that a God of love would maintain an eternal, everlasting torture chamber for those he loves so much that he came to die for them. This is simply, absurd.
@@freeinhabitant2422 i reread everything to be sure. Edward does not believe in the secret rapture theory commonly called the rapture. but he is agnostic on the state of the dead issue you say is the logical extension of cognitional immortality. it was not to him. I have spent long hours with Edward and know he never came to a conclusion on a sleep state at death. He did believe in resurrection as the hope of every believer. in his own words he would say 3 days of the week I might think yes to sleep state and 3 days of the week i might entertain going to be with the Lord at death and one day of the week i rest from the issue. So as far as the intermediate state Edward did not side either way. So for you to start out by saying the logical extension of what Edward presents is a sleep state at death. It is just not so. He felt like the Biblical teaching on Conditional Immortality was solid. He did not think the same about sleep state of death while awaiting resurrection. An organization of Evangelicals promoting Conditional Immortality takes the same position as Edward and they do not side either way on the intermediate state at death. that organization is Rethinking Hell.
@@fleetwd1 Ok, I see what you are saying, but I think you are still misunderstanding me. This statement that you made "He felt like the Biblical teaching on Conditional Immortality was solid" is what I am stating along with you of which I was most emphatic about. The logical extension is just that, a logical extension. He didn't make that statement, I did. What I am saying is that if you believe in conditional immortality, that is a statement on the state of the dead. The dead are... dead. But if he is interjecting some intermediate state, well that is not in the Bible. That would be a reformed Catholic perspective. It would be pretty simple to dispute. Of course, I wouldnt be using anything other than a Bible to do so. One thing I will say. He has done a fantastic job of causing people to think about this dangerous doctrine of eternal torture. I love him for that.
@@freeinhabitant2422 You come from a 7th Day Adventist understanding of the state of the dead. He does not see the issue of sleep state which is what you say is the logical extension. That is my point. The bible teaches your point but it also teaches another point. So Edward being biblical does not side with your logical extension. there is a group of believers of Conditional Immortality Advocates who oppose Everlasting Conscious Torment but like Edward they also do not side one way or the other on Sleep state at death because of the Bible not being clear, Now Edward has a friend who wrote a book "From Ruin To Resurrection" By Al Maxey. Edward was asked to write the forward to it. Al agrees with the idea of a sleep state at death and it is the best book I have ever read on that position of Death. You can tell by Edward's carefully chosen words that he is not fully convinced on this point. 7th Day Adventist think their understandings are always biblical. while some are some are not as clear as you might think. that is my point to you. Edward has done much by teaching the biblical view of what happens to the wicked in the end of this present evil age but he intentionally does not side with the 7th Day Adventist teaching of death. You need to understand. i have been as clear as i can be. I am happy you are beginning to get my point. Should you want a good book on your view buy Al Maxey's book. it is not expensive. I have bought several to give out to people who want to know that particular viewpoint. I may agree more with your view than Edward but i will still correct how you say it. Edward remained open to two views in Scripture on what happens at death. Other advocates of Conditional Immortality regarding hell agree with Edward not taking a stand on what happens at death because the bible does not make as convincing a case on this matter. Edward knew I would honestly represent him when he agreed to let me share his videos. His videos on Hebrews and the Gospel are excellent but he is known far better for his view of hell so those videos get more views. I think the gospel is more important to get right than just the issue of hell. But God's character matches the gospel better with Conditional Immortality than the traditional teaching of hell. Edward was a careful scholar going wherever Scripture leads and not going where it remained unclear. His example is exemplary.
I usually point people to john 3:16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not PERISH, but have ETERNAL LIFE. Hello, if you dont believe, then you dont have eternal life, therefore you perish.....not perishing. And you are dead eternally.
True it can be understood this way. it also takes away the impurities in the process. now the question is can God be just as true and faithful if he eliminates those who will have nothing to do with his plan? or is he a failure if he does? scripture has a paradox which we need to remain true to even if we find he is better than we think he will be. I will not be disappointed with the way it all comes out in the end but if scripture teaches the wicked perish i think we are safe to say the same. can he bring about a better outcome? i think in Christ he has reconciled the world to himself he justifies the wicked who believe. our election to everlasting life is found in him/Christ and not in ourselves. will he force the reality he has accomplished in Christ upon the religious who oppose him on every front? i question this more than what will happen to the godless. many who have not pursued him will enter before those who claim to represent him but are sharletons. if they respond to the holy spirit in the end, all will be saved even those who opposed Jesus himself and caused harm to him and his representatives who are part of his body. but repentance and faith must happen to all who will be saved. and not everyone who claim to be his will enter according to Jesus own word in parable. Edward could not teach what he did not find clear in God's word. But he and I both would welcome being wrong on this matter. we just can not teach what we do not find to be clear in scripture.
@@fleetwd1 Well me I would be ok with the wicked ceasing to exist. Eternal torment i would not because that is insane. Now the purification i think would be the one with the better grounding both logically and it does not have as many problem's the other's. Sure if the devil in the end eternally damned most people are had them tempted to the point the just cease to exist for all eternity would mean God failed. But this is the way for the purification and the sinner's ceasing to exist can have a middle ground. Since the word they get forever from is actually an age are an eon. It could just be the fire both purify and gives a secound death which last until after Jesus abolishe's death. Because the word the get forever from is aionion. These word's mean an age are an eon. But if you use them with thing's that we know on it's own is eternal than it reflects eternity. How you would do this is God is the God of all the ages/eons. Now all eons are ages together would equal eternity. But an age are eon on its own is not eternal. Even if the eons was plural it does not mean it's eternal. Because it could be plural and just be 4 eons. The all would inforce the eternal though if it was in it.
@@shanestrickland5006 both Edward and i agree. He was surprised when he was paid to research this subject and his research led to the Book titled The Fire That Consumes first published in 1982. it has been published several times since and was recently published in a 3rd edition with Edward addressing all the authors who wrote in opposition. There were no real new evidence presented just rehash of empty arguments he had already uncovered in his 1st edition.
Paul states in Acts 20: 26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. 27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. - yet he never once mentioned hell!
yes hell is absent in the messages given in the book of Acts by Peter, Stephen, Philip or Paul. although there is a message of coming judgment to those who do not repent and believe.
Need some help. I'm looking for maybe a pdf outline or something like that with lots of scripture supporting conditional immortality. Something to share with people with a concise outline but with out a bunch of words. If that makes sense.
you can check out Edward Fudge dot com for lots of free material. Also a group of Evangelical's started a group called Rethinking Hell Dot Com they also have RUclips and Facebook postings under the same name. they only deal with defending Conditional Immortality not Intermediate State or other related issues
several different Greek words are translated as "punishment". Timora means penalty, ekdekasin means retribution. "Everlasting punishment" in Mt 25:26 is the term "kolasin" which actually means to be cut off.(from eternal life)
Not sure how this relates to the video. Edward agrees with all you wrote. He does not hold that views of punishment of the wicked is a salvation issue. He does think it important to base the understanding of this issue on Scripture. peace.
@@melleeso2929 thank you.. some have implied Edward does not. However he is very good on the gospel as my videos of him speaking on Hebrews makes clear.
I don't mean to be disrespectful but when you said that those in the flood that died were destroyed forever. How do you explain this? "Christ was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made alive in the spirit, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits- 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah." (1Peter 3:18-20) Wasn't the flood before Christ came?
I think you misunderstood. Edward does not believe when anyone dies in this present age or life they will not be dead forever until the age to come. There is a resurrection for both the saved and the unsaved. but it happens at the end of this present age. Judgment then determines who will live and who will perish.
@@fleetwd1 Jesus was quite adamant as to when "this age" was to end. How many ages does Edward say there is? Jesus explained it with the parable of the wicked vinedresser and the rich man and Lazarus, indicating the final and complete end of the Levitical order and that end would come in the generation of those He was speaking to. The religious class, Judah had mismanaged the kingdom of God. Through Christ, the hope of Israel, the messiah had come, the kingdom is now being opened up along with the remanent Jews, and handed over to the Gentile nations, the rest of God’s children who He also loved. Once "this age" ended then the "age to come" began.
yes and many are unaware that his understanding of the gospel is immense. His two commentaries on Hebrews and two books "the divine Rescue" and "the great rescue" attest to. His website www.edwardfudge.com is filled with great insights for the gospel in his gracEmail writings.
Pope Francis recently said the wicked "disappear." Psalm 37 New Jerusalem Bible 9 for evil-doers will be annihilated, while those who hope in Yahweh shall have the land for their own. 10 A little while and the wicked will be no more, however well you search for the place, the wicked will not be there; 11 but the poor will have the land for their own, to enjoy untroubled peace. 12 The wicked plots against the upright and gnashes his teeth at him, 13 but Yahweh only laughs at his efforts, knowing that his end is in sight. 16 What little the upright possesses outweighs all the wealth of the wicked; 17 for the weapons of the wicked shall be shattered, while Yahweh supports the upright. 18 The lives of the just are in Yahweh's care, their birthright will endure for ever; 19 they will not be put to shame when bad times come, in time of famine they will have plenty. 20 The wicked, enemies of Yahweh, will be destroyed, they will vanish like the green of the pasture, they will vanish in smoke. 21 The wicked borrows and will not repay, but the upright is generous in giving; 22 those he blesses will have the land for their own, and those he curses be annihilated. 27 Turn your back on evil and do good, you will have a home for ever, 28 for Yahweh loves justice and will not forsake his faithful. Evil-doers will perish eternally, the descendants of the wicked be annihilated, 29 but the upright shall have the land for their own, there they shall live for ever. 34 Put your hope in Yahweh, keep to his path, he will raise you up to make the land your own; you will look on while the wicked are annihilated. 36 When next I passed he was gone, I searched for him and he was nowhere to be found. 37 Observe the innocent, consider the honest, for the lover of peace will not lack children. 38 But the wicked will all be destroyed together, and their children annihilated.
interesting. I wonder if John Michael Talbot knows this remark by Francis. John Michael knew Edward but did not like his view of Hell. He preferred the traditional view that has been held by Roman Catholic's and many Protestants alike. I know John Michael has a high regard for Francis.
Chris Date deals with the book of Revelation and has had several say it was helpful in their search. He gave me this link to share with you. ruclips.net/video/5hJWqeHXVDI/видео.html
If you believe that the wages for sin is eternal suffering in a place called hell, and you also believe that Christ took your punishment upon himself. Doesn’t this mean that Christ would be required to suffer in a place called hell for as long as you were required to do so? If the punishment for the unsaved was conscious eternal suffering in a place called hell, then why does the Bible tell us that Christ’s soul was not left in hell? Psalm 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. If therefore Christ was not left in hell, then his punishment had an end. This of course, presents a big problem if you believe that the penalty for our sins is suffering without end in a place called hell. But if you understand that the wages of sin is death and not eternal conscious suffering in a place called hell, then harmony with the scriptures begins to take place. Romans 6:23 For the wages (the payment) of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Death is the payment for sins that the law of God has always required. Therefore, death is the payment that Christ had to pay on behalf of the sins of his elect. And death is the payment all of the non-elect have to pay for their own sins. Upon death, an unsaved individual ceases to exist because his soul was dead already at the moment of conception, therefore, upon the death of the body, that individual is dead forever and has ceased to exist, or as the Bible puts it, that individual has perished. This is why John 3:16 gives us the contrast of either living forever or perishing, which means that they cease to exist. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Christ indeed took upon himself the punishment required by the law of God and died for the sins of his chosen people, but unlike the non-elect which have no power over death, Christ (who is Almighty God) could satisfy the demands of His own law by dying and then raising himself from the dead. Thus, God righteous demand for the sins of the elect was satisfied and so, Christ did indeed take our punishment upon himself, but it wasn’t conscious suffering for an eternity in a place called hell, else He would still have to be there, but rather, it was death. The doctrine of death being the payment for sins and not eternal suffering, teaches us that God’s punishment for sin does indeed have an end, it ends when the unsaved individual dies. It ended when Christ died for the sins of his elect, and His resurrection provided the means of eternal life for all those whose sins were laid upon Christ. And the doctrine of limited punishment, as opposed to eternal conscious punishment, is indeed taught in the scriptures. Deuteronomy 25:1-3 If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous and condemn the wicked. 2 And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down, and to be beaten before his face, according to his fault, by a certain number. 3 Forty stripes he may give him, and NOT EXCEED: lest, if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem VILE unto thee. One thing that the Bible assures us of, is that God, who has laid down the law for mankind, has bound himself to his own law. This law therefore would be no exception in that God cannot command that the punishment for the wicked is not to exceed a certain number of stripes, and then turn around and Himself punish the wicked without end. This type of doctrine does not harmonize with the scriptures. But when we realize that the same laws that apply to mankind also apply to God himself, then we can see that there is harmony when we also realize that death is the penalty for sin rather than eternal conscious suffering in a place called hell. Death is the end of the punishment of the unsaved. Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 For the living know that they shall die but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in anything that is done under the sun. Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, It shall die. James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
I appreciate E.Fudge's thorough research and grasp of such an important subject as the Biblical Hell (Grave) versus the paganised traditional Church teaching of eternal torment in hellfire. Well said. However it seems strange that no mention is made of the fact that Bible study groups like the Adventists, Christadelphians and Bible students (Jehovah's witnesses) had already exposed this in the 19th century. It was once said of CT Russell that "he had turned the hose on hell". For more more than 140 years now the Watchtower magazine (the most widely distributed journal in history) has championed the same truth regarding the soul (not immortal) and hell (not eternal fiery torment). Mr Fudge gives The impression is given that this has been E.Fudge's "discovery". ?
in his book the fire that consumes published in 1982 and republished as a 3rd edition in 2011 he goes into far more detail. he discovered This truth while doing research on the subject for someone else. you might want to reserve criticism till you read his book. Since it has been published He is the one most scholars choose to refute because it is regarded as the most complete presentation on the subject. But he lists many who knew this before him. Often the view he holds is regarded by many as only held by cult movements but he lists highly regarded scholars who hold the view and he is attributed as a main voice for getting many to recognize the view as biblical.
Fudge likely mentions this in other writings and places. What's clear is that the second resurrection and the fire which is plainly future both take place on the earth's surface. Rev 20: 9 "They marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them." Then in chapter 21, John sees a New Heaven and a New Earth, the former things have passed away. There is much more but these two verses are too explicit not to understand.
yes Edward was clear this happens at the end of this present evil age and not before. my thoughts are these on the matters. the earth is purified before the completion of the new creation. While the new creation began with the raising of Jesus from the dead, the completion will only be fully realized after the cleansing fire. removing everything contrary to God's rule.
@@fleetwd1 Thanks for the thoughtful comment/perspective. Edward Fudge has always been my sort of go to understanding of this aspect of scripture. But no less was his gospel message. He was a blessing to many.
@@bobbutler-ds9es yes his gospel was top notch. While I had always agreed with him on this matter I preferred his gospel messages since this issue while important was not a salvation issue as is the gospel. He had to convinced me to offer his Videos on Hell on my channel. As a matter of fact, I recorded his two classes at Lipscomb. I knew the people who hired him to do this research project that has become his legacy. He and I became closest of friends. I miss him so much but am happy his medical struggles are over. I also recorded his family memorial service in Franklin TN. i also have his public memorial from Houston recorded by others. He was a dear friend with whom every time we got together the Holy Spirit would move us into some great fellowship.
@@fleetwd1 Interesting. I have one of his earlier versions of the 'Fire that Consumes.' I have had no personal contact with him but very much enjoyed his internet posts. His sense of humor was first class with his classic smile. Of course, I was aware of his health problems which I think were more genetics than anything else. Thanks for the comments.
@@bobbutler-ds9es yes he was born a premature baby back when they did not survive. that he did was miraculous but he had been prone to medical debilitations as a result. are you familiar with his blog gracEmail? it is filled with gospel analysis to questions asked. it is found at edwardfudge.com
Did God, the most righteous one, put into the fruit the knowledge of good and evil? Also, did not even Abraham say, (I being only dust) beseech thee, will not the Lord of all the Earth do right?! The Answer is not just right but merciful!! I would tremble and be honest with the Lord of all the Earth, being lower than the great Abraham but still say, nay Lord, I can't accept that the traditional view of hell is true, not to even a harsh god would do such a thing.
I'm not a Jehovah's Witness so I might be wrong, but from what I've read about them, they don't believe in hellfire at all...they think that once an unsaved person dies, that's it and they will never be resurrected. However, most other conditionalists believe that the wicked WILL be resurrected to face punishment in hellfire...but of course, they believe the fire will destroy them and kill them for the second time, NOT that they will burn in it forever.
Jason, Cults like the Jehovah's witness and Mormonism often use a bit of "truth" to hide plainly their lies and false doctrines. No body ever uses ALL lies to center around their beliefs- because if so, no body would believe or follow it. The JW's may have gotten the "flavor" of a certain dish, but its not made with chicken, its rat meat.
@@sandiec6063 MEANING OF THE ILLUSTRATION Since we cannot escape the conclusion that Jesus’ words regarding the rich man and Lazarus are an illustration, what do they illustrate, what is their meaning? In brief they tell of the change in the relative positions of two classes of people due to the preaching of the truth, both in Jesus’ day and in ours. The rich man well pictures the Jewish clergy who were well provided for with spiritual provision; who considered themselves children of the kingdom, clothed in purple; who were very self-righteous, wearing fine linen; and who were proud of being Abraham’s offspring.-Rom. 3:1, 2; Matt. 8:12; 23:27, 28; Rev. 19:8; Matt. 3:9, NW. The beggar Lazarus, whose name means “God is helper,” well pictures the Jewish common people, who were despised by the clergy, who because of neglect were spiritually sick and were hungering and thirsting for righteousness, and who appreciated their need of the Great Physician, Christ Jesus.-John 7:49; Matt. 5:6; Mark 2:17, NW. The death of the rich man and of Lazarus pictured a change taking place in the relative positions of these two classes. That this should be so should not surprise us, for time and again the Scriptures speak of persons as dying or having died though still alive, meaning thereby that a change has taken place in their lives. (See 1 Corinthians 11:30; Colossians 3:3; 1 Timothy 5:6; Jude 12.) The preaching by Jesus that exposed the hypocrisy, greed and false teaching of the Jewish clergy caused a change to take place in their lives. (Matt. 23; Luke 16:14; Matt. 15:1-9) From a state of self-satisfied and luxurious ease they were brought into a state of torment; such torment that they had no peace until they had put the Son of God to death.-Matt. 21:45, 46. Those pictured by Lazarus, the Jewish common people of faith toward God, likewise experienced a change in their condition due to the preaching of Jesus, to become the spiritual remnant of Jewry. Even as their name “Lazarus” indicates, they were helped, comforted of God and given the hope of God’s heavenly kingdom. Yes, the poor and spiritually sick harlots and tax collectors were entering the kingdom of God and were receiving God’s favor, as pictured by reclining upon Abraham’s bosom. The heavy burdens the Pharisees had placed upon them were being removed, and they became themselves part of the “seed of Abraham” in whom all the families of the earth are to bless themselves.-Matt. 11:6; 21:31; Gal. 3:7, 26; Matt. 23:4; 11:28-30, NW. And the great chasm between the two classes? This pictures Jehovah’s righteous judgments, which cannot be changed. The religious leaders as a class had fixed their destiny by sinning against the holy spirit, for which there is no forgiveness; and their plea to have their torment eased, even in the slightest, by diminishing the preaching of the truth, was not to be complied with.-Mark 3:29; Acts 5:27-32, NW. The five brothers of the rich man well picture the associates of the Jewish clergy who manifested the same spirit as the Pharisees. These, refusing to believe in Jesus, showed thereby that they actually were not taking heed to what Moses and the Prophets had said. And that they would not believe even if one rose from the dead was borne out when Lazarus, the brother of Mary and Martha, did actually rise from the dead.-John 7:47, 48; 5:46, 47; 12:10, 11. All these facts in fulfillment of this illustration find a striking parallel in our day. For a long time the hypocritical, greedy, tradition-following clergy of Christendom had things all their own way in exploiting their flocks and neglecting their spiritual interests, whereas the remnant of anointed spiritual Israelites were viewed and treated as a diseased beggar fit only for association with dogs of the street. But with the preaching of the good news of Jehovah’s kingdom a change has taken place in these two classes, and since 1919 this once-despised, outcast spiritual remnant of anointed Christians have been lifted high in the favor of the Greater Abraham, Jehovah God, and have been given Kingdom interests, especially to preach the good news of God’s now- established Government for mankind’s blessing. Thus others not of the remnant may share in their comfort, and they now do.-Ezek. 34:1-16, AS; Matt. 24:14. Today the clergy are being tormented by the great witness since being given by the Christian witnesses of Jehovah whereas the “laity” of good will are being comforted and are being brought into a position of favor with the Greater Abraham, Jehovah God; a case in point being the joy these experienced at the international assembly of Jehovah’s witnesses in 1953. Again there will be no soothing of the torment of the clergy by a letup in the preaching work; neither will any special sign be given now to convince the commercial and political allies of the clergy that this message is of Jehovah God. Only if viewed thus do the words of Jesus recorded at Luke 16:19-31 make sense, have value and pertinency for our day, and harmonize with the rest of the Scriptures.
@@AstariahJW Wow! so appreciate your amazing response thankyou it's deep and really a relief to have that kind of reply rather than the usual superficial readings and commentary one finds regarding Lazarus and the rich man. I felt in my spirit that what you have shared here is true. My understanding was that it could be Jesus warning the people about the future Gehenna in the coming Great White Throne Judgement where "the rest of the dead" are resurrected and judged according their works but your interpretation of Luke 16 is much more satisfying. Subbed to your channel :)
I am not Edward obviously. My knowledge of his views would perhaps be "to whom much is given much is required" would apply. Edward was not dogmatic about this but he left room for God to dole out judgment in degrees if necessary to satisfy justice but all would eventually end in the second death if unrepentant. Universalist's could read these texts in effort to support their view. While there are some texts that support the Universalist view, however when you take all the Scriptures giving every text equal weight Edward would say the most Biblical view is the one he teaches (Conditional Immortality). He was not opposed to God saving all. The work of Christ's atonement provides a way for this. It just seems there are many texts that suggest the unrepentant are no more in the end.
@fleetwd1 it makes sense, like he said to not ask the question, "what does the old testament say about about hell?", but rather "what does the old testament say about the end of the wicked?"
But my wonderful brother who is withering with ill health and was a scripture scholar still doesnt believe any of it will just die.? I will never see him again...even though he lived an exemplary life?
There are many, many people who live exemplary lives but who will not enter the Kingdom of God, Meryn. My wonderful wife is one of them. I don't fret over it. She will sleep forever. That's not such a bad way to spend eternity. As for me, I will not miss her in eternity. I love her, yes, but when we put on our glorified bodies the things (and people) of this world will fade into the distant past. I, for one, am glad of that.
In his book "The Fire That Consumes" Edward does not leave any stone unturned. i have his lecture and a Q&A under that same title. I am certain you question comes up but the most complete answer would be in his book by that name. the 1st edition written in 1982 is for sale for less and his 3rd Edition is more recent 2011 and is more expensive. your question is covered in both. i will try to post a link to the Q&A here. One thing I can say is even some opponents have admitted it is not covering the topic of hell. Hell occurs not at the time of death as many assume. it happens at the end of this present evil age but not before. the white throe judgment occurs first and the Lake of Fire (symbolic) literally the 2nd death occurs after resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is a well known story that Jesus employs to teach a certain point not to teach about what happens at death. the point is that if his brothers do not listen to Moses they will not listen even if someone is raised from the dead. this is confirmed when Jesus raises the brother of Mary and Martha. they only decide to murder both Jesus and Lazarus lest more will believe. Q&A ruclips.net/video/_-Cl7oEOebU/видео.html lecture ruclips.net/video/oHUPpmbTOV4/видео.html
The Bible teaches the worm dieth not and the fire is never quenched. it's removed in all modern versions. The worm that dieth not and the fire is never quneched. Everlasting fire is for real. This movie is a fake. Also, please be ye born again! "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:." - Romans 1:20 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;" - Romans 3:24-25 "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" - 1 Cori 15:1-4 “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.” - 1 Timonthy 1:15 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." - Ephesians 2:8 - 9 "But by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." - Hebrews 9:12 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." - 2 Timothy 2:15 "O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:" - 1 Tim 6:20 God Bless - Shawn Gospel is 1 Cori 15:1-5: How to be Saved is Romans 3:23-25, Eph 2:8-9, Hebrews 9:12 -How Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh, was born sinless by the Holy Ghost through Mary, lived a perfect life. -Was crucified, nailed to that cursed tree, shed his blood on Calvary, was buried and rose again on the 3rd day. -Ascending to heaven afterwards to put the liquid blood in the mercy seat to obtain eternal salvation for whosoever puts their faith alone in the blood atonement. - Not by works lest any man may boast; including good deeds, going to church, repenting of sins, tithing, sinners prayer, calling on the name of the Lord. Suggested Channel: Robert Breaker and read the King James Bible. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, rightly dividing the word of truth.
25:00 This makes no sense. How is it that the writer means the same thing when talking about the body and the soul. In the verse, the "body" and the "soul" are clearly TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. The verse makes a clear distinction. Again, this makes no sense
Ezekiel 16:53 “I will restore their fortunes, both the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters, and the fortunes of Samaria and her daughters, and I will restore your own fortunes in their midst, 54 that you may bear your disgrace and be ashamed of all that you have done, becoming a consolation to them. 55 As for your sisters, Sodom and her daughters shall return to their former state, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former state, and you and your daughters shall return to your former state.
Jesus asks us to forgive and love our enemies whilst God is burning and hating His! Will God really do this? And this is your loving God. No, God will save all men!
There are extensive hell NDE testimonies on RUclips; how do you explain these? Excellent presentation, by the way, more people might take a cue from you on how to present a difficult subject, congratulations!
I am not Edward. I upload his videos. This video I shot and edited. I could be wrong but I think this Question has been asked of Edward before. He might answer he does not attempt to answer NDE testimony's. He stays busy with what scriptures teach. in this regard scripture is silent on NDE so he would be too. I am sure his word would be better chosen but that might be the gist of it.
Well, then there are the "23 minutes in hell" and the Mary Baxter's "Divine Revelation" who claims 40 visitations of hell with Jesus; both "first hand accounts" by experienced Christians and both are disturbing beyond description. Never mind that "Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses."
I have also heard of of people talking about seeing loved one s in heaven etc even if they are non religious... will you believe their testimonies? I do believe that God can speak through dreams and alot of the time He will meet the person where they are and speak to them on a basis of their own understanding to protray a something important jesus did this with the pharisees He used a parable of lazarus to change their thinking about who's saved and who is not saved... thats not to say that he was in agreement with the greek philosphical teachings that came into their teachings for He also talsk about death as a sleep which to them was something to laugh at because it went against these ideas. For those who believe that their unsaved loved ones are in heaven based on something they witnessed you only have to point to the bible and show how David is called a man after God's own heart and yet Luke in the book of Acts records in peters sermon that "David is not yet ascended into the heavens" so either this persons dream is where you base your theology or the scriptures whcih ndicate that David remian in the grave awaiting the ressurection like most people. I hope this helps.
many have made this claim but did not back it up with any new evidence they just continued to make the same arguments that he originally found faulty. so 30 years since he first published he came out with a third edition to address the 17 people who wrote 15 books in opposition but there were no new arguments.
@@rosschenault4227 yes he even jokes about his name. the first edition is still available published in 1982. the 3rd edition was published in 2011 I think. each have their value.
Contrary teaching to what Jesus taught. Jesus did not exaggerate, but explained Dan.12:2, that 'many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall AWAKE... to shame and everlasting contempt'. If men cease to exist, then their 'contempt' would NOT be 'everlasting', and the truth would cease being true.
there is no Abyss where he went. he went to sheol where YHWH did not abandon him. and he awaits the call from the grave. He was a good and faithful servant and is in Christ. perhaps you could also be blessed by his ministry if you lay aside your prejudices.
where do you get everyone will be salted with fire? granted believers go through purification like fiery trials. even Jesus was made perfect through suffering. But where does the fire of gehenna salt believers. fire cleanses by burning things up if it is not extinguished.
@@fleetwd1 Christians will NOT escape being "revealed”, “tried", "salted", and "baptized" by FIRE. It is going to be used ON EVERYONE. Here are four Scriptures which show that believers are specifically in view, but it includes "EVERYONE shall be salted with FIRE," and "EVERY MAN'S WORK ... shall be revealed by FIRE." (Matt.3:11; Mark 9:49; 1Pet.1:7; 1Cor.3:13).
@Patrick Ray HamiltonHamilton, You are a right son of a gun. You ask me a question and before you hear me out, you assume an answer. Makes no sense. The book of Proverbs warns us against that. To the scripture you raised, you have to bear in mind the context. This is part of the sermon on the mount. As such Christ went far above the simple meaning of the law. He strengthened it far beyond its normal teaching and provided a more severe form of punishment than simple death. No person could possibly keep them. These commands gave most in the world no hope “Narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it” (Matthew 7:13). These teachings of our Lord were so severe, and more stringent than the simple statements of the Ten Commandments, that they led one to hopelessness in trying to keep them. But, thank God, we learned the great truth that we are in Christ and share His life. How then could we be on a road that leads to life? The entrance into life is wide, not cramped. It is entered by grace, not by striving (Luke 13:24). The narrow way is not the evangel but the law. That leads to life, for those who keep it, but, alas of the few who find it, none observe it. Correctly DIVIDE or partition the word of truth.
Below is Revelation 14: 11 from Young's Literal Translation, Exclusive. It refers to those who "...are bowing before the beast...." This is a reference to living people, on Earth. Best wishes. ✴ _"and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages; and they have no rest day and night, who _*_are bowing before the beast and his image,_*_ also if any doth receive the mark of his name."_
dont' use that. use the KJV. Revelation 14:11 King James Version 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.@@IsaacNussbaum
The Bible teaches the worm dieth not and the fire is never quenched. it's removed in all modern versions. The worm that dieth not and the fire is never quneched. Everlasting fire is for real. This movie is a fake. Also, please be ye born again! "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:." - Romans 1:20 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;" - Romans 3:24-25 "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" - 1 Cori 15:1-4 “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.” - 1 Timonthy 1:15 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." - Ephesians 2:8 - 9 "But by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." - Hebrews 9:12 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." - 2 Timothy 2:15 "O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:" - 1 Tim 6:20 God Bless - Shawn Gospel is 1 Cori 15:1-5: How to be Saved is Romans 3:23-25, Eph 2:8-9, Hebrews 9:12 -How Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh, was born sinless by the Holy Ghost through Mary, lived a perfect life. -Was crucified, nailed to that cursed tree, shed his blood on Calvary, was buried and rose again on the 3rd day. -Ascending to heaven afterwards to put the liquid blood in the mercy seat to obtain eternal salvation for whosoever puts their faith alone in the blood atonement. - Not by works lest any man may boast; including good deeds, going to church, repenting of sins, tithing, sinners prayer, calling on the name of the Lord. Suggested Channel: Robert Breaker and read the King James Bible. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, rightly dividing the word of truth.
@@GodisGracious1031Ministries Using the KJV does not change anything. The passage is still talking about living people, on Earth, during the Tribulation. "...no rest DAY OR NIGHT...."
I've read a number of books on this subject, primarily ALL YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT HELL: THREE CHRISTIAN VIEWS OF GOD'S FINAL SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM OF SIN by Steve Gregg (a very balanced book which presents the evidence for and against each view -- eternal torment, universal reconciliation or restoration, and conditional immortality or annihilation, even though Gregg himself subscribes to conditional immortality); and Gerry Beauchemin's book, HOPE BEYOND HELL, which sides with the universal reconciliation view. Of the former, there are two videos on RUclips of lectures by Steve Gregg on hell, which form the basis of his book. They are highly recommended viewing. Beauchemin believes so strongly in the conclusion of his study that he has made his more recent book, HOPE FOR ALL, available at no charge in PDF form through hopeforallfellowship.com/. Edward Fudge is a very compelling teacher. Part of it is that he's a very compelling personality. I love listening to him. And he almost has me convinced, except for the fact that he doesn't seem to define who the "wicked" or "evil" are who will be destroyed or burnt up at the end. The Bible passages he uses implies that these "wicked" and "evil" are exceedingly bad actors on the world stage. Are they the "Hitlers" of the world, the rapists, the serial killers, the child abusers? The truly heinous types. Who are they? Simply nonbelievers, people who never professed Christ, by choice or ignorance? And then another question: A few years ago I came to reject the idea of hell as eternal torment. I don't believe scripture supports it. I think it's a slam and an insult to the character of God. But in terms of the other two alternatives, why not a combination of both? For the unrepentant, the unbeliever, the person who lived their life in rebellion and independence of Christ, why not a process of purging after death, a burning away of whatever kept the person from accepting the grace and mercy of God in Christ, enabling the person to finally accept what Christ accomplished for them? And for the truly reprobate, the truly evil or wicked person, the "Hitlers" and so forth, the purifying fire which might cleanse 99.9999% of humanity that died outside of Christ, would eventually consume completely those whose stubborn rebellion keeps them from eventually turning? In short, while I highly respect Edward Fudge, I'm not convinced he answers all key questions. If anyone has any insights beyond what he presents, I'd be interested in reading them.
I knew Edward about as well as anyone not related. He regarded me as if I were related, as he did other friends. I think for him to define the wicked he would regard this as perhaps being judgmental on his part. So those answers will come from God in the end. The worst of all offenses is to put others who differ with your religious viewpoint to death. Paul fits that crime well, so who are we to describe who is, or who is not in the book of life. Edward has told me he would not mind it a bit if God does what Universalism purposes. He knows however there are texts that Universalists do not address and biblically the Conditionalists like himself are more in harmony with the body of scripture because of those texts. Ezekiel 3:20 seems to suggest we have an obligation to warn someone who turns from righteousness and commits iniquity to warn them or their blood will be on us. Sometimes I think they ignore such passages for those that suggest a universal salvation. Paradoxes seem to be contradictory but they balance and the universal texts need to be balanced off with those that suggest the wicked perish if they do not turn. I hope this helps you understand why Edward might be silent on who might make up the wicked. We are told Christ died for the ungodly (some translations render ungodly as wicked) Rom 5:6, 4:5
HELL IS REAL FOLKS. Unbelief is the worst sin, apart from the unforgivable sin. Thinking that everyone is saved by God's Grace, no matter what, is so wrong. Jesus made it more than clear, our God of love is also a Just God who judges sin and condemns unrepentant sinners.
@@fleetwd1 Kate wrote, "HELL IS REAL...." Is that consistent with Edward's teaching? I am a Conditionalist, myself, but the imagery of Gehenna as the final fate of the unredeemed seems to preclude hell, to me, at least.
@@IsaacNussbaum to Edward "Hell is real" it just is not what Eternal Conscious Torment adherents believe it to be. it is a matter of Duration not of reality. He believes the fire of Hell accomplishes it goal and cleanses forever that which is opposed to God and His rule. If it never ends it never accomplishes an end to crying death etc. etc. So yes Hell is Real. I do not know what Kate was trying to make of her statement but Edward would agree to what she said in words but not what she may have been implying by it. Edward is often misunderstood as not believing in Hell which is nonsense.
Clearly you didn't listen to the video. You're arguing against something he never said. You're also confusing hell with the lake of fire. Hell gets thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the final fate of the wicked. It's the second death and yes they are destroyed, consumed by it.
@@fleetwd1 I apologize for my tardy reply. I'm afraid that I just now saw your post. Hell, supposedly, is a place where disembodied spirits/souls are consciously tortured. I do not see that as being Biblical. The dead are not conscious. They cannot be tortured. And when they are resurrected, they will not be disembodied. They will have mortal bodies. Thus I conclude that Hell does not exist. Moreover I know of no place in Scripture which says that there is. (Disclaimer: I know about Luke 16: 19-31. That, in my view, can be easily shown to be a morality tale and not a historical account.) All the best, my friend.
Mathew 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
Edward does not deny hell. he just finds the description of it in Scripture is not the description given of it in the majority view held by many Christians. your text does not address this issue.
I have now come to the conclusion that maybe God is going to do all 3 of those "Propositions", depending on the gravity of the offence or Sins committed... In other words, some may go to the place of Eternal Conscious Torment, some to the Temporal Fire that punishes and purifies and allows for Salvation out of the Fire and lastly some could be simply punished in the Fire of Hell and also annihilated and totally destroyed. This is my middle-ground in terms of Theology on Hell. I must say, it's the first ever Sermon I have heard on this topic, that includes the element of humor!
Thanks for sharing your conclusion. I am open to two but Eternal Conscious Torment is out. the other two have scripture support but I think "the consuming fire" is the most solid biblical position. I would not be at all disappointed if God surprised me with universal salvation. I know God has made provision in Christ to be just and justify all who believe. I just do not think the universal salvation adherents deal effectively enough with the abundance of scripture that say the end of the wicked is "eternal" death, destruction or similar language. Edward has said as to duration, God may chose to mete out a variety of duration based upon His justice. But this would be entirely left to God. any duration at all would seem like forever to those that suffer this. So I would accept varying degrees that may seem like eternity those who refuse God's offer of salvation. But as to a never ending process I think it is a clear misrepresentation of a few texts. Yes Edward has a sense of humor that comes through.
@@johnclhugyugihjbvgbkj9729 A punishment is not bad as long as it fits the crime. The wicked only are wiped out for an eon are an age. The word's they get forever from is Aionios are Aionion these words are derived from aion. Which mean's a peried of time are an age. The only way you translate aion are any of it's form's to eternity are ever lasting would be with something that on it's own is eternal like God.
John There will be GODS judgement before being consumed in the fire. During that judgment GOD could replay hitlers life back to him and let him feel the same pain and suffering that he inflicted on the Jewish people and then he would be totally destroyed so don’t think you can just do as you please in this life and get away with it. Anyway just thought I would add that.
@@k9ine999 no it is on your end. it works on RUclips or I would not hear sound. however RUclips sometimes mutes videos which can be aggravating but the control is on you to click the speaker Symbol right after the fast forward symbol. then raise the level. FB does this more than RUclips does. I also have this same class without visual aids but having visual aids helps it can be found here: ruclips.net/video/Ay8qUIsHBfY/видео.html
Scripture is clear resurrection happens to all both the just and the unjust. final judgment occurs after resurrections not before. the 2nd death occurs when sentenced to it. This will cause to perish. no future resurrection after the perishing. popular view of hell after death is not biblical. Christ causes all to be brought back to life to face judgment. only after resurrection and judgment will annihilation occur. it is complete perishing forever.
God defined death early on and it is very clear. Notice the personal pronouns here: “You shall surely die.” “From dust YOU came, to dust YOU shall return.” God could not have said it any clearer.
Well there is torment while in hell. Traditionalists forget that. Being in the darkness awaiting the judgement. What would the concept of time be? Imagine being on death row..... Awaiting the judgement. I believe that's a good analogy of hell. The traditionalist must prove one point for me. That the wicked are granted the gift of eternal life. If they can not prove that in scripture I must conclude The wicked perish. I know it is a special death because it is called the 2nd death and Jesus Christ followers are not hurt by it. We can see there are two resurrections in Revelation 20. The emphasis is the first which is Jesus Christ's followers. These are not hurt by the second death. So I also want to know what is the second death in the traditionalist view?
Why even use the word hell? It's not greek. Its Germanic. Why not the actual words used. Hades, tartarus, and sheol. He said Hell= consumes and then said God is a consuming fire. Lol so God is Hell. Lol
You missed Gehenna which Jesus used. Hades is the Greek replacement for the Hebrew word Sheol. Edward gets "God is a consuming fire" from Hebrews 12:29 But similar ideas come from Deut. 4:24 "For the LORD your God is a devouring fire" see also Deut. 9:3; Ps.50:3; & Amos 7:4.
Unless we receive the gift of eternal life, we will perish: ■ "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) How will the unsaved perish? ■ "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23) After resurrection and judgment, the unsaved will die a second time. It's called the "second death" in the Bible, in Revelation 2:11, 20:6, 20:14 and 21:8. After the second death there is no life and there is no hope of resurrection. It's the end of you. You'll never "be" again. That's what it means to "perish." That's how God mercifully deals with those who reject Him. Here’s some examples of perishing from the Old Testament: ■ "For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be" (Psalms 37:10). ■ "As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation" (Proverbs 10:25). ■ "The way of the LORD is strength to the upright: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity" (Proverbs 10:29). The word “hell” appears in Bible *_translations_* because hell-believing *_translators_* put it there, paving over the meanings of three different original Greek words (New Testament). Those words have nothing to do with a place of eternal, fiery torment. Here’s an example: ■ “And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire” (Mark 9:47) "Hell" in that verse was how translators translated the Greek word γέεννα -geena or gehenna in English. So, what was γέεννα, really? It was the valley (just outside Jerusalem) which was used as a dump in Jesus’ time. Constant fire and maggots there were sure to destroy whatever was thrown in. But translators said nothing about that dump. Instead, they translated γέεννα as “hell.” Using “hell” in that verse was grossly misleading. Jesus was not talking about eternal torment in some sort of fiery hell. Jesus was saying the unsaved would perish. They would surely be destroyed, just as trash thrown into that dump was sure to be destroyed. They would be figuratively thrown into the dump. Translators (especially King James Version, 1611) made a real mess when they used the word “hell” in place of those three Greek words. They had inherited their hell concept, by tradition, through the Catholic church. By using “hell” they were twisting the meanings of the Greek words, making the Bible appear to support their doctrine of a place of perpetual, fiery torment. Over time some some translators have recognized this error, noting the original Greek words in footnotes, or even using the original Greek words directly in the translated text . . . and not using “hell.” Young’s Literal Translation (YLT), for example, never uses “hell.” The damage caused by the translators continues to this day. Millions of reasonable people dismiss Christianity as nonsense when they are told the God of mercy will sadistically torment the unsaved forever and ever in some sort of fiery hell. People often struggle with the thought of perishing because they've been led to believe they have an immortal soul that leaves the body at death and lives - somewhere - forever. That's actually a pagan doctrine that has crept into institutional Christianity over the centuries. (It's a repackaged version of Satan's lie, "Ye shall not surely die" -Genesis 3:4.) Here's the pagan Greek philosopher Plato; see if this sounds like what most professing Christians have been led to believe by their churches: _"Do we believe that there is such a thing as death? And is this anything but the separation of soul and body? And being dead is the attainment of this separation; when the soul exists in herself, and is parted from the body and the body is parted from the soul . . . beyond question the soul is immortal and imperishable, and our souls will truly exist in another world!"_ (Plato, in _Phaedo,_ about 360 BC) ➔ Salvation is not about "where you'll spend eternity." Wrong paradigm! *You won't even have an eternity unless you receive from God the gift of eternal life!* Otherwise, you'll perish in that "second death." And that, my friends, is how the God of mercy deals with those who reject Him. In Matthew 25:46 Jesus describes the fate of the unsaved: ■ "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." The "everlasting punishment" is the second death, after which there is no life and no hope of resurrection. The punishment of the unsaved is like the execution of a criminal: it is "everlasting" in the sense that it is completed, final, permanent and irrevocable. It is not "everlasting" in the sense of being active, ongoing, perpetual punishing.
Ezekiel 16:55 KJVS When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.
1 The word of the Lord came to me: 2 “Son of man, confront Jerusalem with her detestable practices and say, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says *to Jerusalem:* (Ez. 15; NIV) Ezekiel 16 is talking to/about cities which will exist again on the new Earth.
@@IsaacNussbaum Isaiah 66:24 KJVS And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
@@REAL88E For the record, I am not denying anything. The original Bible manuscripts do not contain the word "hell" or any word which means hell. Sheol is not hell. Hades is not hell. Gehenna is not hell. Thus, there is no hell to deny.
When he started talking about how even if we don't see the wicked snuffed out it's ok because God with do it. I got the impression he is looking forward to wicked people being snuffed out. Nothing in me wants to see anyone snuffed out. That sounds like someone that enjoys revenge. What i am saying is that Jesus Christ ( God/man) and third person of the Trinity said to love our enemies and do good to those who persecute us. That is a different message then the so-called message of the "god" of the old testament. These messages are at complete odds with eachother and imo cannot be reconciled. Either God's wrath wins or redemption and love win. There is no middle ground.
it is difficult dealing with feelings or impression one gets from a video. i can only assure you that Edward does not delight in the extermination of one living soul nor does God. I have heard Edward say he thinks the number of unrepentant humans is likely far less than we believe it to be. But since this is taught in scripture, he will teach it. He believes it depicts a final end to all who oppose God's rule and includes finality to some non entities of Death and Hates as well as any entity who opposes God's rule. This symbolic imagery of a lake of fire depicts a second death of which there is no escape. It will destroy all that encounters it and all that does will be no more. Love wins in either case. A Lover never forces.
How do you explain this in light of the Holy Spirit's conviction which seems pretty violent? I've been convicted three different times and although they may not to be forced as you say they are altogether convincing leaving little room to argue or escape, I imagine a final judgement to be similar...
perished.....this means became worthless.....the example given is a worn out tire....that is no longer, of any value....it is still there, it has not gone anywhere....but because it has no value, it is thrown out...
good try, no cigar. Cambridge English Dictionary To die, especially in an accident or by being killed, or to be destroyed: Three hundred people perished in the earthquake . He believes that Europe must create closer ties or it will perish.
Ridiculous. Killed, destroyed, perish are all used to describe their fate and their meaning is clear. God's word is clear, to God ALONE belongs immortality. And it also says when WE put on immortality, at the first resurrection of the righteous. WE aren't born with it. It's not part of our nature. Notice in the New Testament it's ALWAYS about how to obtain eternal life. The contrast is eternal life verses being destroyed or perishing. NOT going to heaven or hell like we say under the false teaching of the immortal soul. It's amazing how Christians are so willing to reinterpret words to mean the exact opposite of what they actually mean just to defend this pagan teaching of eternal torture.
New American Standard Bible where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED....it seems to be quite straightforward.....so good luck, if there is such a thing, on judgement day....you have studied and know languages....hmmm.....does that include the English language....
Once again you are guilty of reading meaning into scripture that isn't there, while ignoring the plainly stated meaning in other scriptures. How long it takes an object to burn up has nothing to do with how long a fire burns. Throw a piece of paper into a furnace and it burns up in seconds. But the fire keeps burning doesn't it? How long do you think it would take you to burn up in the sun? Milliseconds. Yet the sun will burn for billions of years. As to not being quenched, it just means it won't be put out. Even when the sun buns out. It burns out. It's not being quenched. No one will quench it. You're imputing the characteristics of the lake of fire to the characteristics of the wicked.
It is possible Hades is a bit like a temporary punishment? that Jesus spoke of when he said, "you will not get out until you pay every penny"....then Hades would be the leveling field for punishment and then later throw Hades and death into the lake of fire to their second and final death. If not than the Lake of Fire is on each as deserved in duration and intensity until the very end of the age!
The texts in Matthew 5:25&26 are dealing with being thrown into Prison not Hades. (See also Luke 12:58 for same details) It sounds like a debtors prison from the context. Hades is the grave or realm of the dead where both righteous and unrighteous go to await resurrection. It, the grave, will come to an end when all evil comes to an end.
the worst thing one can hear......depart from me.....New American Standard Bible "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels
So? Nothing in that verse contradicts what he's saying. Eternal fire doesn't mean YOU burn forever. It makes no sense that an eternal, all consuming fire that's unquenchable doesn't actually have the power to burn up anything.
25:00 this explanation is completely illogical. If soul and body are the same then man can and do kill both body and soul hahahaha. So why would the verse say to not fear "those" that can kill the body.????? this verse is simply saying man cant kill the soul so dont fear man. instead fear God who can actually kill the soul
Jesus never use the word hell either Jesus said gehenna talkin about the Valley of the son of hinnom the Valley of the gorge on the southside of Jerusalem and he was talkin about Earthly destruction
Alright when you said Jesus used the word hell I was done. Gehena is the word used in the time for the valley of hinom. Glory be to God when His truth be revealed. As the bible says all will be saved especially those that believe.
Gehena is translated hell in English. Edward is addressing those who say Jesus had a lot to say about hell. He explains what the Valley of Hinom was and is. it was a garbage heap that burned and smoldered continuously in Jesus' time.
Those who uphold idea of hell should discuss / debate the preterist view (I agree w/ this view) that all was fulfilled as it happened in 70 AD. www.preteristcentral.com/pdf/pdf%20books/1878_russel_parousia.pdf
Who cares what you Think? It is common when people go against tradition, it is the person who is in error. The wicked do not end--they will be in Lake of Fire as will hell--so you do not even have the end correct! God made angels and humans to live FOREVER! You cannot establish doctrine on one verse. Consuming fire is more like nothing can stand before God.
tradition can be a terrible hindrance. Jesus opposed human religious tradition. it was tradition that insisted he had to die to preserve the traditions of religious man. tradition must always be checked by the Word of God. Jesus used God's word to expose the erroneous traditions in his day. this angered the traditionalists. It still does to this day. The Word says clearly in 1 Timothy 6:6, speaking of God, "who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light,..." Man on the other hand is mortal and capable of death. Immortality of the soul is no where taught in scripture. it is Platonic thinking that crept into Christianity by former philosophers like Tertullian in the 2nd century AD. God made Adam mortal and should he eat the fruit of the forbidden tree God warns him, "you will surely die." see Genesis 2:17 Your teaching expressed above makes God's word to Adam a lie. you are saying man can not die. Hmmm I wonder who is right you and your tradition based on man's philosophy, or God and his word????
I will listen again but he clearly teaches what the bible says not what he thinks. He does believe it but he believes it because it is what the bible teaches. He grew up with the traditional understanding and he believed that until he surprisingly found the bible does not teach what he believed. He was hired to research this subject. During that time he slowly began to realize the bible did not teach what he had been taught all his life. it might help if you put the time where he keeps saying I believe. I am not hearing that i am at least 1/4 way through and he keeps saying this is what the bible says.
God made angels and humans to live forever? Really? You're wrong. Way wrong: "God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal..." - 1 Tim 6:15-16 You must have missed that word "alone".
Fire is eternal, but without souls? What’s the purpose of fire being eternal? Sorry, this position is bankrupt! Nice man, but he is deceived and deceiving! Jesus said depart from me INTO EVERLASTING FIRE!
Thanks for the comment. Jude verse 7 gives Sodom and Gomorrah as an example of "eternal fire." they both are not presently still burning, nor were they the day after when Abraham went there. Gen 19:28. says, "he saw dense smoke rising from the land, like smoke from a furnace." so your conception of what is meant by eternal fire lacks biblical support. Soul means a living being. for them to be living in torment not able to die would mean they have eternal life which is unable to perish, this also has no biblical support. (see John 3:16) the choice has always been between life and death (Duet 30:19; Prov 8:35&36 and many, many more) the wicked choose death over life. the Lake of Fire is symbolic for the 2nd death. destroyed in it is death and hates. so death shall be no more. It seems you still need to do some rethinking on the subject.
There's absolutely nothing whatsoever deceiving here my brother. The correct translation of the words Olam and aoin (Hebrew and Greek, respectively) are as follows ; An age. A period of time. In context, the word eternal in biblical perspective, is an absolute, not a literal. Remember, very little of the bible is to be taken literally. It is nearly all 'dark sayings' and 'parables'. Very little is black and white. But one thing that we can absolutely guarantee, without any fear of error, is that a loving creator could not even conceive of eternally torturing even the most evil of creatures for finite crimes. There's only two possibilities; Total annihilation or eventual restoration. Both positions are possible according to scripture. But eternal torture is definitely not supportable according to scripture. The fire of gehenna(The dump outside of Jerusalem where all the most toxic waste was burned) is said to ascend forever and ever. Do you see it burning now? No. Just one example.
Your argument is the one that's bankrupt. You're using several logical fallacies to defend your erroneous belief, while he lists numerous scriptures that plainly state what he's arguing. Just about any fire that's ever existed has lasted longer than what it takes to burn up a single object. The length of the fire has nothing to do with how long it takes to consume an object. How long would you last at the surface of the sun? Milliseconds. Yet the sun will continue to burn for billions of years even though you were consumed instantly. It's quite absurd to think an all consuming, unquenchable fire that is eternal can't actually burn anything up.
unreal how many people are buying into this absolute lie!!! yeah, I dared to post this! we are eternal beings Ed Fudge-the-truth. not from the moment we are born, but from the moment we are conceived. ETERNAL souls. even the slight chance of us NOT being eternal opens the door to so many forms of sin. this isn't quality spiritual education, it's totally demonic.
+Fakey Fakerson were not talking about the righteous. We're talking about the wicked. So according to that verse the righteous are eternal. Now show me where it says all men are made eternal
The Bible teaches the worm dieth not and the fire is never quenched. it's removed in all modern versions. The worm that dieth not and the fire is never quneched. Everlasting fire is for real. This movie is a fake. Also, please be ye born again! "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:." - Romans 1:20 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;" - Romans 3:24-25 "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" - 1 Cori 15:1-4 “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.” - 1 Timonthy 1:15 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." - Ephesians 2:8 - 9 "But by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." - Hebrews 9:12 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." - 2 Timothy 2:15 "O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:" - 1 Tim 6:20 God Bless - Shawn Gospel is 1 Cori 15:1-5: How to be Saved is Romans 3:23-25, Eph 2:8-9, Hebrews 9:12 -How Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh, was born sinless by the Holy Ghost through Mary, lived a perfect life. -Was crucified, nailed to that cursed tree, shed his blood on Calvary, was buried and rose again on the 3rd day. -Ascending to heaven afterwards to put the liquid blood in the mercy seat to obtain eternal salvation for whosoever puts their faith alone in the blood atonement. - Not by works lest any man may boast; including good deeds, going to church, repenting of sins, tithing, sinners prayer, calling on the name of the Lord. Suggested Channel: Robert Breaker and read the King James Bible. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, rightly dividing the word of truth.
*"it's (sic) removed in all modern versions."* You, sir, are a liar and a false teacher. New International Version where “’the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched.’ New Living Translation ‘where the maggots never die and the fire never goes out.’ English Standard Version ‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’ Berean Standard Bible where ‘their worm never dies, and the fire is never quenched.’ Berean Literal Bible where 'their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.' King James Bible Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. New King James Version where ‘Their worm does not die And the fire is not quenched.’ New American Standard Bible where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT EXTINGUISHED. NASB 1995 where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED. NASB 1977 where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED. Legacy Standard Bible where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED. Amplified Bible where THEIR WORM [that feeds on the dead] DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT PUT OUT. Christian Standard Bible where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched. Holman Christian Standard Bible where Their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched. American Standard Version where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Aramaic Bible in Plain English “Where their worm does not die and their fire is not quenched.” Contemporary English Version The worms there never die, and the fire never stops burning. Douay-Rheims Bible Where the worm dieth not, and the fire is not extinguished. English Revised Version where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. GOD'S WORD® Translation In hell worms that eat the body never die, and the fire is never put out. Good News Translation There 'the worms that eat them never die, and the fire that burns them is never put out.' International Standard Version In that place, worms never die, and the fire is never put out. Literal Standard Version where their worm is not dying, and the fire is not being quenched; Majority Standard Bible where ‘their worm never dies, and the fire is never quenched.’ New American Bible where ‘their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.’ NET Bible where their worm never dies and the fire is never quenched. New Revised Standard Version where their worm never dies, and the fire is never quenched. New Heart English Bible 'where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.' Webster's Bible Translation Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Weymouth New Testament where their worm does not die and the fire does not go out. World English Bible ‘where their worm doesn’t die, and the fire is not quenched.’ Young's Literal Translation where their worm is not dying, and the fire is not being quenched;
According to Isaiah, the unsaved will be destroyed by worms and cremated by fire. “And they will go out and look on the DEAD BODIES of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched….” (Isaiah 66: 24, NIV) (In Mark 9: 48 Jesus, talking about Gehenna, quotes Isaiah 66: 24.)
@@GodisGracious1031Ministries I quoted the passage from Isaiah which explains what worms that don't die do, and what unquenchable fire does. They do not torment the conscious. They destroy the dead. If you don't like what it says, that will have to be between you and your maker. I have already done my part.
24 “Then he cried and said, `Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented (3600 ὀδυνάω odunao) in this flame (5395 φλόξ phlox).’ 25 “But Abraham said, `Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted (3870 παρακαλέω parakaleo) and you are tormented (3600 ὀδυνάω odunao). (Lk. 16:22-25 NKJ Doesn't sound like "once and done" to me🔥
too bad that you do not understand that the passage has nothing to do with the punishment of the wicked at the end of time. note if is speaking to anything like this, it would be of the intermediate state between death and resurrection, it is not after final judgment. But even this is not a factual account of the intermediate state depicted here. the point of the parable is this, "if they do not listen to Moses they will not listen even if someone rises from the dead." Which is twice proven afterward in the resurrection of real Lazarus, brother of Mary and Martha, and the resurrection of Jesus himself. Edward addresses this at 1 34-2 41 in this video of Q&A ruclips.net/video/_-Cl7oEOebU/видео.html
It's a parable. Not to be taken literally or a teaching about the afterlife. Otherwise you have to believe we get to hear the screams of people burning in hell for all eternity. Oh. And there's about a billion people resting on Abraham's bosom.
Edward Fudge is a bit of a hero to me. I had come to this conclusion on my own before ever learning the term "Conditional Immortality" or "Annihilationism". But I wasn't satisfied because I knew I needed to study it more. I wasn't searching for "comfort", although I did have a problem with the traditional view in my heart. When I discovered Edward's work, he helped wrap it up and give me more certainty on the subject. Now I can quote ALL the Scriptures on the topic and easily make them make sense.
If you don't believe this view yet, keep studying! It's not a Salvation issue, but it's important to bring in new believers!
great perspective
This is the best exposition of annihilation that I have ever heard. This man really knows his subject very well. Blessings.
This guy is an absolute legend. So much packed in there and extremely thorough from every angle. I hope and pray that one day soon the abominable doctrine of eternal conscious torment will be annihilated.
Amen!
Just look at what the Bible says about this subject.....one google search is sufficient.....Matt 3:12 - His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
@@philipbuckley759 an unquenchable fire is one that never stops burning. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't consume what it burns.
@@janejane5281 Exactly.
@@janejane5281 Actually it only means it cannot be put out until it accomplishes it's purpose. It is like fires today that are not able to be controlled even with the best of tactics and resources. unquenchable means it cannot be put out prematurely.
Wonderful exposition ... I'm grateful that Mr Fudge had the open mind, humility and intellectual honesty to tackle this subject, where his research has made it very apparent that the mainstream church has picked up a lot of non-biblical nonsense over the centuries masquerading as truth. Thank you sir for the light you brought on this whole subject and present so eloquently ... RIP.
God is a loving merciful God, not a psychopathic tyrant who tortured people without end
look at what Jesus said.....
@@philipbuckley759 Hey get off me.
@@philipbuckley759 He pointed right toward His Father and the cross, and in the worst case (for the lost/unsaved) He clearly told about Conditional Immortality/Annihilationism. He NEVER ONCE spoke about eternal conscious torment
@@i.AmHymn more like the other way around, sounds like a God THEY created to control the masses and fulfil their own evil desires
I really enjoyed his presentation. He was able to cover quite a bit in the time frame. Thank you Mr. Fudge.
I feel like we are all here to say "whew, glad my wicked friends and family won't be tortured forever."
Yes God is often better than mans ideas of Him. Eternal Conscious Torment is based upon a false unbiblical notion that man has an immortal soul. In the Garden of Eden immortality was accessible by having access to the tree of life. therefore immortality was then, and is now conditional. God bestows it upon whomever he choses and never to the unrepentant. For that reason Scripture describes the eternal state of unrepentant wicked as Death, Perishing and other similar terms when counted there are hundreds of such texts. Those opposing this view hold to one or two texts that seem to favor there view but the overwhelming evidence supports Edward's view.
Note Edward knows this is not a salvation issue like believing the gospel of what Jesus accomplished on behalf of man but this teaching is important to explaining what the Bible teaches.
@@fleetwd1 Amen!
No, Fudge is wrong. It is everlasting fire and fire that never quenches where the worm dieth not.@@Girlypop3232
God bless you and protect you always Mr. Fudge. Much love in Christ to you and your family. ❤️
thank you for your kind thoughts toward Edward and his family. He rests in a grave awaiting a immortal and indestructible body. His health had disintegrated to the point he welcomed going to the grave to wait the glorious return of his Savior.
This is AMAZING! God is goood! I've been praying and pouring into the Word for myself after a life of rebellion and knew it was way different than I'd ever heard in any church service. Its going on 3 yrs where He has made it possible that I have the opportunity to do nothing but study, but being convicted that this is truth, along with prior questions about how an uneducated, unfruitful, and rebellious brute beast that I am, how then will I know when I'm operating in the works before ordained by the Father rather than being overzealous? Any guidance or feedback would be appreciated. I feel as though I know your answer will be in the ballpark of prayer and presented rather than forced opportunity but none the less look forward to any discipling you might offer. Thank you and God bless in the name of our King and High Priest Jesus Christ!
I have most of Edward's videos on my channel. he also has a Website that is being maintained by his family since he passed. there are many free materials as well as some information on book for sale and a plug for a Hollywood movie based on his life. www.edwardfudge.com
absolute torment i have had over "HELL" FOR years. it has been terrible enough here on earth
Me too - I hope you don't suffer about it anymore. For one thing, how can you enjoy the love of Christ while being terrified all the time that you'll go to Hell?
It's a lot worse where Mr. Fudge is now!
I don't know if this is true or not but I can say that between the doctrine of election which I only learned about a couple years ago plus the doctrine of eternal punishment I completely fell off and became a fallen hedonist.
I'm not proud of that, I eventually submitted to God that whatever He did or will do is Just.
But being a good student of the Bible I had noticed this disparity myself, and still haven't reconciled entirely my views. But I have noticed the descriptions of the end of the wicked as annihilated far out number eternal punishment.
But again I submit to you all God is just. Whichever He does will be seen as Just on the Last Day.
very true. God seems to lead us even despite our waywardness. he will keep the light on for you. keep the faith. the key on doctrine is finding how better it gives us an understanding of God if you do not see how a doctrine leads to a greater understanding of the great work accomplished for you in the Son it may not be all that essential to dwell on. gracEmail was a ministry by Edward that dealt with very diverse questions and is no longer going out bi weekly but is available on many topics. go to www.edwardfudge.com and search for the gracEmail archives. I found it very insightful if you have questions you wish to get answers for..
If you’re interested in hearing another interpretation on election, check out Greg Boyd’s hour or so long presentations on Open Theism, he helped me a lot as well. God bless you and I hope you can find peace in the ideas of who God is and how he relates to us.
Good comment. Thanks. Probably many of us have been on that circular journey. I believe Father’s predestination is the PLAN of salvation. He says “whosoever will may come.” “I will draw all men unto me.” “God would that all men would be saved.” “Choose you this day whom you will serve.” Etc. And I would love to believe there is no eternally tormenting hell (that has been my hardest reality to face). But what do I do with Luke 16: 19-31? Here is what I know, 1971 at the age of 21, I shook an angry finger in God’s face and asked Him if He was real and gave a damn about me I wanted Him to show me. I supernaturally (as in, a Saul of Tarsus experience) encountered the Living One Elohim of the Universe and He showed me Yeshua on the cross. My life forever changed (for the better-as I learned to walk in obedience to Him). He is real. I trust He knows what He is doing.
The soul that sins dies, not lingers endlessly; that's why God makes a big deal out of people putting themselves into position for Him to restore them to access to the tree of life.
I am relieved to have seen this and as a result have total confidence in a REAL Loving God. Why would a loving God torment his unbelieving creations on account of a rebellious Angel demon simply because we were given free will in the first place. It doesn't make sense, yes Jesus was sacrificed for of which I am grateful and a way out , BUT a supreme creator would surely not unleash his ultimate wrath eternally on the unbelieving since a choice was given on the basis of either belief in his son's word or turn to a rebellious Angel who caused wickedness before we even came on the scene. To me that kind of God is like a angry child upset at some of his toy soldiers falling over when trying to stand them up, I don't believe in a supreme being with the temper of human children.
while all that you say is true Edward prefers to examine Scripture for what it says about the matter. Since it shows exactly what you say, it is irresponsible of Christians to present something other than what Scripture teaches.
thanks for your support.
This was really easy to listen to and clearly explained in depth
I hope everyone understands the logical extension here. That is, that those who die are asleep until the resurrection. Remember the discussion Jesus had with the sister of Lazarus just before Jesus raised him? She said I know he will live again on the last day... So, this also means something else. There is no Rapture. People sleep in Jesus until he returns - as the lightning shines from east to west, so shall the coming of the Son of Man be... It will be a BIG event, "every eye will see Him". It is no secret. It will be known by all, and He will return with "The voice of the Archangel" - It will be loud.
Important to note Edward did not take this as a logical extension. he claimed the intermediate state was not as clear in Scripture as was the end of the wicked. For that reason he left this out of his discussion of the matter. he did not say yes to your idea or no to it. he preferred not to take a stand either way. I am not as agnostic as he on the matter But you need to know and respect his view.as do I
@@fleetwd1 I don't think you understand what he meant by that. He absolutely is a conditionalist. What he is saying is he is leaving the final decision to each of us. He knows the contention that this topic generates. This is why he skillfully presents all the sides.
Secondly, you do not understand what I am saying. I am perfectly in line with his same assumptions. Note what I said. I said that the logical extension if you accept conditional immortality is that there can be no rapture. I am not telling you what to think, or anyone else. I am just adding another conclusion that would have to be inferred by accepting conditional immortality.
By the way, there are other scriptures that demonstrate conditional immortality, or at minimum, that man does not have an immortal soul. But perhaps the most significant statement that Mr Funk has stated over and over. That is that it is beyond belief to think that a God of love would maintain an eternal, everlasting torture chamber for those he loves so much that he came to die for them. This is simply, absurd.
@@freeinhabitant2422 i reread everything to be sure. Edward does not believe in the secret rapture theory commonly called the rapture. but he is agnostic on the state of the dead issue you say is the logical extension of cognitional immortality. it was not to him. I have spent long hours with Edward and know he never came to a conclusion on a sleep state at death. He did believe in resurrection as the hope of every believer. in his own words he would say 3 days of the week I might think yes to sleep state and 3 days of the week i might entertain going to be with the Lord at death and one day of the week i rest from the issue. So as far as the intermediate state Edward did not side either way. So for you to start out by saying the logical extension of what Edward presents is a sleep state at death. It is just not so. He felt like the Biblical teaching on Conditional Immortality was solid. He did not think the same about sleep state of death while awaiting resurrection. An organization of Evangelicals promoting Conditional Immortality takes the same position as Edward and they do not side either way on the intermediate state at death. that organization is Rethinking Hell.
@@fleetwd1 Ok, I see what you are saying, but I think you are still misunderstanding me. This statement that you made "He felt like the Biblical teaching on Conditional Immortality was solid" is what I am stating along with you of which I was most emphatic about.
The logical extension is just that, a logical extension. He didn't make that statement, I did. What I am saying is that if you believe in conditional immortality, that is a statement on the state of the dead. The dead are... dead. But if he is interjecting some intermediate state, well that is not in the Bible. That would be a reformed Catholic perspective. It would be pretty simple to dispute. Of course, I wouldnt be using anything other than a Bible to do so.
One thing I will say. He has done a fantastic job of causing people to think about this dangerous doctrine of eternal torture. I love him for that.
@@freeinhabitant2422 You come from a 7th Day Adventist understanding of the state of the dead. He does not see the issue of sleep state which is what you say is the logical extension. That is my point. The bible teaches your point but it also teaches another point. So Edward being biblical does not side with your logical extension. there is a group of believers of Conditional Immortality Advocates who oppose Everlasting Conscious Torment but like Edward they also do not side one way or the other on Sleep state at death because of the Bible not being clear, Now Edward has a friend who wrote a book "From Ruin To Resurrection" By Al Maxey. Edward was asked to write the forward to it. Al agrees with the idea of a sleep state at death and it is the best book I have ever read on that position of Death. You can tell by Edward's carefully chosen words that he is not fully convinced on this point. 7th Day Adventist think their understandings are always biblical. while some are some are not as clear as you might think. that is my point to you. Edward has done much by teaching the biblical view of what happens to the wicked in the end of this present evil age but he intentionally does not side with the 7th Day Adventist teaching of death. You need to understand. i have been as clear as i can be. I am happy you are beginning to get my point. Should you want a good book on your view buy Al Maxey's book. it is not expensive. I have bought several to give out to people who want to know that particular viewpoint. I may agree more with your view than Edward but i will still correct how you say it. Edward remained open to two views in Scripture on what happens at death. Other advocates of Conditional Immortality regarding hell agree with Edward not taking a stand on what happens at death because the bible does not make as convincing a case on this matter. Edward knew I would honestly represent him when he agreed to let me share his videos. His videos on Hebrews and the Gospel are excellent but he is known far better for his view of hell so those videos get more views. I think the gospel is more important to get right than just the issue of hell. But God's character matches the gospel better with Conditional Immortality than the traditional teaching of hell. Edward was a careful scholar going wherever Scripture leads and not going where it remained unclear. His example is exemplary.
I usually point people to john 3:16.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not PERISH, but have ETERNAL LIFE.
Hello, if you dont believe, then you dont have eternal life, therefore you perish.....not perishing. And you are dead eternally.
Well said.
The consuming fire is symbolic of refinment.
True it can be understood this way. it also takes away the impurities in the process. now the question is can God be just as true and faithful if he eliminates those who will have nothing to do with his plan? or is he a failure if he does? scripture has a paradox which we need to remain true to even if we find he is better than we think he will be. I will not be disappointed with the way it all comes out in the end but if scripture teaches the wicked perish i think we are safe to say the same. can he bring about a better outcome? i think in Christ he has reconciled the world to himself he justifies the wicked who believe. our election to everlasting life is found in him/Christ and not in ourselves. will he force the reality he has accomplished in Christ upon the religious who oppose him on every front? i question this more than what will happen to the godless. many who have not pursued him will enter before those who claim to represent him but are sharletons. if they respond to the holy spirit in the end, all will be saved even those who opposed Jesus himself and caused harm to him and his representatives who are part of his body. but repentance and faith must happen to all who will be saved. and not everyone who claim to be his will enter according to Jesus own word in parable. Edward could not teach what he did not find clear in God's word. But he and I both would welcome being wrong on this matter. we just can not teach what we do not find to be clear in scripture.
@@fleetwd1 Well me I would be ok with the wicked ceasing to exist.
Eternal torment i would not because that is insane.
Now the purification i think would be the one with the better grounding both logically and it does not have as many problem's the other's.
Sure if the devil in the end eternally damned most people are had them tempted to the point the just cease to exist for all eternity would mean God failed.
But this is the way for the purification and the sinner's ceasing to exist can have a middle ground.
Since the word they get forever from is actually an age are an eon.
It could just be the fire both purify and gives a secound death which last until after Jesus abolishe's death.
Because the word the get forever from is aionion.
These word's mean an age are an eon.
But if you use them with thing's that we know on it's own is eternal than it reflects eternity.
How you would do this is God is the God of all the ages/eons.
Now all eons are ages together would equal eternity.
But an age are eon on its own is not eternal.
Even if the eons was plural it does not mean it's eternal.
Because it could be plural and just be 4 eons.
The all would inforce the eternal though if it was in it.
@@shanestrickland5006 both Edward and i agree. He was surprised when he was paid to research this subject and his research led to the Book titled The Fire That Consumes first published in 1982. it has been published several times since and was recently published in a 3rd edition with Edward addressing all the authors who wrote in opposition. There were no real new evidence presented just rehash of empty arguments he had already uncovered in his 1st edition.
Correct! God is the saviour of ALL men!
@@MadDogsandEnglishman if this is really true, i will be HUGING Christ forever! Do you know a good sermon for this?
Paul states in Acts 20: 26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. - yet he never once mentioned hell!
yes hell is absent in the messages given in the book of Acts by Peter, Stephen, Philip or Paul. although there is a message of coming judgment to those who do not repent and believe.
Well done...!!!
Need some help. I'm looking for maybe a pdf outline or something like that with lots of scripture supporting conditional immortality. Something to share with people with a concise outline but with out a bunch of words. If that makes sense.
you can check out Edward Fudge dot com for lots of free material. Also a group of Evangelical's started a group called Rethinking Hell Dot Com they also have RUclips and Facebook postings under the same name. they only deal with defending Conditional Immortality not Intermediate State or other related issues
several different Greek words are translated as "punishment". Timora means penalty, ekdekasin means retribution. "Everlasting punishment" in Mt 25:26 is the term "kolasin" which actually means to be cut off.(from eternal life)
Good job bro Ed Fudge on hell
No he is wrong
1 Corinthians 15:1-4, the GOSPEL by which we are SAVED, JESUS CHRIST DIED for our SINS was BURIED and ROSE again on the third day!Grace through FAITH.
Not sure how this relates to the video. Edward agrees with all you wrote. He does not hold that views of punishment of the wicked is a salvation issue. He does think it important to base the understanding of this issue on Scripture. peace.
Just sharing the Gospel ☝🏼🙏🏾❤️
@@melleeso2929 thank you.. some have implied Edward does not. However he is very good on the gospel as my videos of him speaking on Hebrews makes clear.
I wish I could get his presentation slides lol
His website which is still operating may have those helps. WWW.edwardfudge.com
@@fleetwd1 thank you!!
@@austinh681 you are very welcome
I don't mean to be disrespectful but when you said that those in the flood that died were destroyed forever. How do you explain this? "Christ was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made alive in the spirit, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits- 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah." (1Peter 3:18-20) Wasn't the flood before Christ came?
I think you misunderstood. Edward does not believe when anyone dies in this present age or life they will not be dead forever until the age to come. There is a resurrection for both the saved and the unsaved. but it happens at the end of this present age. Judgment then determines who will live and who will perish.
@@fleetwd1 Jesus was quite adamant as to when "this age" was to end. How many ages does Edward say there is? Jesus explained it with the parable of the wicked vinedresser and the rich man and Lazarus, indicating the final and complete end of the Levitical order and that end would come in the generation of those He was speaking to. The religious class, Judah had mismanaged the kingdom of God. Through Christ, the hope of Israel, the messiah had come, the kingdom is now being opened up along with the remanent Jews, and handed over to the Gentile nations, the rest of God’s children who He also loved. Once "this age" ended then the "age to come" began.
Edward Fudge could be as important as Martin Luther in influencing the church away from error and into truth.
yes and many are unaware that his understanding of the gospel is immense. His two commentaries on Hebrews and two books "the divine Rescue" and "the great rescue" attest to.
His website www.edwardfudge.com is filled with great insights for the gospel in his gracEmail writings.
AMEN
Pope Francis recently said the wicked "disappear."
Psalm 37 New Jerusalem Bible
9 for evil-doers will be annihilated, while those who hope in Yahweh shall have the land for their own.
10 A little while and the wicked will be no more, however well you search for the place, the wicked will not be there;
11 but the poor will have the land for their own, to enjoy untroubled peace.
12 The wicked plots against the upright and gnashes his teeth at him,
13 but Yahweh only laughs at his efforts, knowing that his end is in sight.
16 What little the upright possesses outweighs all the wealth of the wicked;
17 for the weapons of the wicked shall be shattered, while Yahweh supports the upright.
18 The lives of the just are in Yahweh's care, their birthright will endure for ever;
19 they will not be put to shame when bad times come, in time of famine they will have plenty.
20 The wicked, enemies of Yahweh, will be destroyed, they will vanish like the green of the pasture, they will vanish in smoke.
21 The wicked borrows and will not repay, but the upright is generous in giving;
22 those he blesses will have the land for their own, and those he curses be annihilated.
27 Turn your back on evil and do good, you will have a home for ever,
28 for Yahweh loves justice and will not forsake his faithful. Evil-doers will perish eternally, the descendants of the wicked be annihilated,
29 but the upright shall have the land for their own, there they shall live for ever.
34 Put your hope in Yahweh, keep to his path, he will raise you up to make the land your own; you will look on while the wicked are annihilated.
36 When next I passed he was gone, I searched for him and he was nowhere to be found.
37 Observe the innocent, consider the honest, for the lover of peace will not lack children.
38 But the wicked will all be destroyed together, and their children annihilated.
interesting. I wonder if John Michael Talbot knows this remark by Francis. John Michael knew Edward but did not like his view of Hell. He preferred the traditional view that has been held by Roman Catholic's and many Protestants alike. I know John Michael has a high regard for Francis.
heretic
Brother, I been struggling a lot. What about the Book of Revelation?
Chris Date deals with the book of Revelation and has had several say it was helpful in their search. He gave me this link to share with you. ruclips.net/video/5hJWqeHXVDI/видео.html
If you believe that the wages for sin is eternal suffering in a place called hell, and you also believe that Christ took your punishment upon himself. Doesn’t this mean that Christ would be required to suffer in a place called hell for as long as you were required to do so?
If the punishment for the unsaved was conscious eternal suffering in a place called hell, then why does the Bible tell us that Christ’s soul was not left in hell?
Psalm 16:10
For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
If therefore Christ was not left in hell, then his punishment had an end. This of course, presents a big problem if you believe that the penalty for our sins is suffering without end in a place called hell.
But if you understand that the wages of sin is death and not eternal conscious suffering in a place called hell, then harmony with the scriptures begins to take place.
Romans 6:23
For the wages (the payment) of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Death is the payment for sins that the law of God has always required. Therefore, death is the payment that Christ had to pay on behalf of the sins of his elect. And death is the payment all of the non-elect have to pay for their own sins. Upon death, an unsaved individual ceases to exist because his soul was dead already at the moment of conception, therefore, upon the death of the body, that individual is dead forever and has ceased to exist, or as the Bible puts it, that individual has perished.
This is why John 3:16 gives us the contrast of either living forever or perishing, which means that they cease to exist.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Christ indeed took upon himself the punishment required by the law of God and died for the sins of his chosen people, but unlike the non-elect which have no power over death, Christ (who is Almighty God) could satisfy the demands of His own law by dying and then raising himself from the dead. Thus, God righteous demand for the sins of the elect was satisfied and so, Christ did indeed take our punishment upon himself, but it wasn’t conscious suffering for an eternity in a place called hell, else He would still have to be there, but rather, it was death.
The doctrine of death being the payment for sins and not eternal suffering, teaches us that God’s punishment for sin does indeed have an end, it ends when the unsaved individual dies. It ended when Christ died for the sins of his elect, and His resurrection provided the means of eternal life for all those whose sins were laid upon Christ. And the doctrine of limited punishment, as opposed to eternal conscious punishment, is indeed taught in the scriptures.
Deuteronomy 25:1-3
If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous and condemn the wicked. 2 And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down, and to be beaten before his face, according to his fault, by a certain number. 3 Forty stripes he may give him, and NOT EXCEED: lest, if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem VILE unto thee.
One thing that the Bible assures us of, is that God, who has laid down the law for mankind, has bound himself to his own law. This law therefore would be no exception in that God cannot command that the punishment for the wicked is not to exceed a certain number of stripes, and then turn around and Himself punish the wicked without end. This type of doctrine does not harmonize with the scriptures. But when we realize that the same laws that apply to mankind also apply to God himself, then we can see that there is harmony when we also realize that death is the penalty for sin rather than eternal conscious suffering in a place called hell. Death is the end of the punishment of the unsaved.
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6
For the living know that they shall die but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in anything that is done under the sun.
Ezekiel 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, It shall die.
James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
I appreciate E.Fudge's thorough research and grasp of such an important subject as the Biblical Hell (Grave) versus the paganised traditional Church teaching of eternal torment in hellfire. Well said.
However it seems strange that no mention is made of the fact that Bible study groups like the Adventists, Christadelphians and Bible students (Jehovah's witnesses) had already exposed this in the 19th century.
It was once said of CT Russell that "he had turned the hose on hell". For more more than 140 years now the Watchtower magazine (the most widely distributed journal in history) has championed the same truth regarding the soul (not immortal) and hell (not eternal fiery torment). Mr Fudge gives The impression is given that this has been E.Fudge's "discovery". ?
in his book the fire that consumes published in 1982 and republished as a 3rd edition in 2011 he goes into far more detail. he discovered This truth while doing research on the subject for someone else. you might want to reserve criticism till you read his book. Since it has been published He is the one most scholars choose to refute because it is regarded as the most complete presentation on the subject. But he lists many who knew this before him. Often the view he holds is regarded by many as only held by cult movements but he lists highly regarded scholars who hold the view and he is attributed as a main voice for getting many to recognize the view as biblical.
Fudge likely mentions this in other writings and places. What's clear is that the second resurrection and the fire which is plainly future both take place on the earth's surface. Rev 20: 9 "They marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them." Then in chapter 21, John sees a New Heaven and a New Earth, the former things have passed away. There is much more but these two verses are too explicit not to understand.
yes Edward was clear this happens at the end of this present evil age and not before.
my thoughts are these on the matters. the earth is purified before the completion of the new creation. While the new creation began with the raising of Jesus from the dead, the completion will only be fully realized after the cleansing fire. removing everything contrary to God's rule.
@@fleetwd1
Thanks for the thoughtful comment/perspective. Edward Fudge has always been my sort of go to understanding of this aspect of scripture. But no less was his gospel message. He was a blessing to many.
@@bobbutler-ds9es yes his gospel was top notch. While I had always agreed with him on this matter I preferred his gospel messages since this issue while important was not a salvation issue as is the gospel. He had to convinced me to offer his Videos on Hell on my channel. As a matter of fact, I recorded his two classes at Lipscomb.
I knew the people who hired him to do this research project that has become his legacy. He and I became closest of friends. I miss him so much but am happy his medical struggles are over. I also recorded his family memorial service in Franklin TN. i also have his public memorial from Houston recorded by others. He was a dear friend with whom every time we got together the Holy Spirit would move us into some great fellowship.
@@fleetwd1 Interesting. I have one of his earlier versions of the 'Fire that Consumes.' I have had no personal contact with him but very much enjoyed his internet posts. His sense of humor was first class with his classic smile. Of course, I was aware of his health problems which I think were more genetics than anything else. Thanks for the comments.
@@bobbutler-ds9es yes he was born a premature baby back when they did not survive. that he did was miraculous but he had been prone to medical debilitations as a result. are you familiar with his blog gracEmail? it is filled with gospel analysis to questions asked. it is found at edwardfudge.com
Did God, the most righteous one, put into the fruit the knowledge of good and evil? Also, did not even Abraham say, (I being only dust) beseech thee, will not the Lord of all the Earth do right?! The Answer is not just right but merciful!! I would tremble and be honest with the Lord of all the Earth, being lower than the great Abraham but still say, nay Lord, I can't accept that the traditional view of hell is true, not to even a harsh god would do such a thing.
true
Augustine is not sleeping. He's in heaven - 'Absent from the body, present with the Lord.'
Edward refers to his condition as Jesus had Lazarus.
Nah Augustine IS sleeping or DEAD. Just like JESUS DIED! BUT JESUS is the only one to be raised from the dead being the FIRST FRUITS!
So, he's saying he believes that the wicked are destroyed with no chance of resurrection, similarly to how the Jehovah's Witnesses believe?
+Jason Egeland no your wrong
I'm not a Jehovah's Witness so I might be wrong, but from what I've read about them, they don't believe in hellfire at all...they think that once an unsaved person dies, that's it and they will never be resurrected. However, most other conditionalists believe that the wicked WILL be resurrected to face punishment in hellfire...but of course, they believe the fire will destroy them and kill them for the second time, NOT that they will burn in it forever.
take note of the KJV Bible Verses he uses.
Jason, Cults like the Jehovah's witness and Mormonism often use a bit of "truth" to hide plainly their lies and false doctrines. No body ever uses ALL lies to center around their beliefs- because if so, no body would believe or follow it. The JW's may have gotten the "flavor" of a certain dish, but its not made with chicken, its rat meat.
True, Like I’d say SDA mostly. They don’t get redeemed in any schism of Christianity. Addendum: as far as I know.
Mr. Fudge, you failed to convince me. Luke 16: 19-31
i am curious to know what you think the text you refer to teaches?
The parable of the rich man and Lazarus has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE "AFTERLIFE "
@@davidbradberry7637What does that parable mean then? Im for conditional immortality
but those verses, I just dont get them.
@@sandiec6063
MEANING OF THE ILLUSTRATION
Since we cannot escape the conclusion that Jesus’ words regarding the rich man and Lazarus are an illustration, what do they illustrate, what is their meaning? In brief they tell of the change in the relative positions of two classes of people due to the preaching of the truth, both in Jesus’ day and in ours.
The rich man well pictures the Jewish clergy who were well provided for with spiritual provision; who considered themselves children of the kingdom, clothed in purple; who were very self-righteous, wearing fine linen; and who were proud of being Abraham’s offspring.-Rom. 3:1, 2; Matt. 8:12; 23:27, 28; Rev. 19:8; Matt. 3:9, NW.
The beggar Lazarus, whose name means “God is helper,” well pictures the Jewish common people, who were despised by the clergy, who because of neglect were spiritually sick and were hungering and thirsting for righteousness, and who appreciated their need of the Great Physician, Christ Jesus.-John 7:49; Matt. 5:6; Mark 2:17, NW.
The death of the rich man and of Lazarus pictured a change taking place in the relative positions of these two classes. That this should be so should not surprise us, for time and again the Scriptures speak of persons as dying or having died though still alive, meaning thereby that a change has taken place in their lives. (See 1 Corinthians 11:30; Colossians 3:3; 1 Timothy 5:6; Jude 12.) The preaching by Jesus that exposed the hypocrisy, greed and false teaching of the Jewish clergy caused a change to take place in their lives. (Matt. 23; Luke 16:14; Matt. 15:1-9) From a state of self-satisfied and luxurious ease they were brought into a state of torment; such torment that they had no peace until they had put the Son of God to death.-Matt. 21:45, 46.
Those pictured by Lazarus, the Jewish common people of faith toward God, likewise experienced a change in their condition due to the preaching of Jesus, to become the spiritual remnant of Jewry. Even as their name “Lazarus” indicates, they were helped, comforted of God and given the hope of God’s heavenly kingdom. Yes, the poor and spiritually sick harlots and tax collectors were entering the kingdom of God and were receiving God’s favor, as pictured by reclining upon Abraham’s bosom. The heavy burdens the Pharisees had placed upon them were being removed, and they became themselves part of the “seed of Abraham” in whom all the families of the earth are to bless themselves.-Matt. 11:6; 21:31; Gal. 3:7, 26; Matt. 23:4; 11:28-30, NW.
And the great chasm between the two classes? This pictures Jehovah’s righteous judgments, which cannot be changed. The religious leaders as a class had fixed their destiny by sinning against the holy spirit, for which there is no forgiveness; and their plea to have their torment eased, even in the slightest, by diminishing the preaching of the truth, was not to be complied with.-Mark 3:29; Acts 5:27-32, NW.
The five brothers of the rich man well picture the associates of the Jewish clergy who manifested the same spirit as the Pharisees. These, refusing to believe in Jesus, showed thereby that they actually were not taking heed to what Moses and the Prophets had said. And that they would not believe even if one rose from the dead was borne out when Lazarus, the brother of Mary and Martha, did actually rise from the dead.-John 7:47, 48; 5:46, 47; 12:10, 11.
All these facts in fulfillment of this illustration find a striking parallel in our day. For a long time the hypocritical, greedy, tradition-following clergy of Christendom had things all their own way in exploiting their flocks and neglecting their spiritual interests, whereas the remnant of anointed spiritual Israelites were viewed and treated as a diseased beggar fit only for association with dogs of the street. But with the preaching of the good news of Jehovah’s kingdom a change has taken place in these two classes, and since 1919 this once-despised, outcast spiritual remnant of anointed Christians have been lifted high in the favor of the Greater Abraham, Jehovah God, and have been given Kingdom interests, especially to preach the good news of God’s now- established Government for mankind’s blessing. Thus others not of the remnant may share in their comfort, and they now do.-Ezek. 34:1-16, AS; Matt. 24:14.
Today the clergy are being tormented by the great witness since being given by the Christian witnesses of Jehovah whereas the “laity” of good will are being comforted and are being brought into a position of favor with the Greater Abraham, Jehovah God; a case in point being the joy these experienced at the international assembly of Jehovah’s witnesses in 1953. Again there will be no soothing of the torment of the clergy by a letup in the preaching work; neither will any special sign be given now to convince the commercial and political allies of the clergy that this message is of Jehovah God.
Only if viewed thus do the words of Jesus recorded at Luke 16:19-31 make sense, have value and pertinency for our day, and harmonize with the rest of the Scriptures.
@@AstariahJW Wow! so appreciate your amazing response thankyou it's deep and really a relief to have that kind of reply rather than the usual superficial readings and commentary one finds regarding Lazarus and the rich man.
I felt in my spirit that what you have shared here is true.
My understanding was that it could be Jesus warning the people about the future Gehenna in the coming Great White Throne Judgement where "the rest of the dead" are resurrected and judged according their works but your interpretation of Luke 16 is much more satisfying. Subbed to your channel :)
How is Matthew 10:15 and 11:24 handled That it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgement
I am not Edward obviously. My knowledge of his views would perhaps be "to whom much is given much is required" would apply.
Edward was not dogmatic about this but he left room for God to dole out judgment in degrees if necessary to satisfy justice but all would eventually end in the second death if unrepentant.
Universalist's could read these texts in effort to support their view. While there are some texts that support the Universalist view, however when you take all the Scriptures giving every text equal weight Edward would say the most Biblical view is the one he teaches (Conditional Immortality).
He was not opposed to God saving all. The work of Christ's atonement provides a way for this. It just seems there are many texts that suggest the unrepentant are no more in the end.
@fleetwd1 it makes sense, like he said to not ask the question, "what does the old testament say about about hell?", but rather "what does the old testament say about the end of the wicked?"
that verse is gone in the new bibles
But my wonderful brother who is withering with ill health and was a scripture scholar still doesnt believe any of it will just die.? I will never see him again...even though he lived an exemplary life?
There are many, many people who live exemplary lives but who will not enter the Kingdom of God, Meryn. My wonderful wife is one of them. I don't fret over it. She will sleep forever. That's not such a bad way to spend eternity. As for me, I will not miss her in eternity. I love her, yes, but when we put on our glorified bodies the things (and people) of this world will fade into the distant past. I, for one, am glad of that.
@@IsaacNussbaum That is a good answer. Thankyou
I support this concept but please explain to me Lazarus and the rich man without giving a poor explanation for calling it symbolism
In his book "The Fire That Consumes" Edward does not leave any stone unturned. i have his lecture and a Q&A under that same title. I am certain you question comes up but the most complete answer would be in his book by that name. the 1st edition written in 1982 is for sale for less and his 3rd Edition is more recent 2011 and is more expensive. your question is covered in both. i will try to post a link to the Q&A here.
One thing I can say is even some opponents have admitted it is not covering the topic of hell. Hell occurs not at the time of death as many assume. it happens at the end of this present evil age but not before. the white throe judgment occurs first and the Lake of Fire (symbolic) literally the 2nd death occurs after resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus is a well known story that Jesus employs to teach a certain point not to teach about what happens at death. the point is that if his brothers do not listen to Moses they will not listen even if someone is raised from the dead. this is confirmed when Jesus raises the brother of Mary and Martha. they only decide to murder both Jesus and Lazarus lest more will believe.
Q&A
ruclips.net/video/_-Cl7oEOebU/видео.html
lecture
ruclips.net/video/oHUPpmbTOV4/видео.html
The Bible teaches the worm dieth not and the fire is never quenched. it's removed in all modern versions.
The worm that dieth not and the fire is never quneched. Everlasting fire is for real. This movie is a fake. Also, please be ye born again!
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:." - Romans 1:20
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;" - Romans 3:24-25
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" - 1 Cori 15:1-4
“This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.” - 1 Timonthy 1:15
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." - Ephesians 2:8 - 9
"But by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." - Hebrews 9:12
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." - 2 Timothy 2:15
"O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:" - 1 Tim 6:20
God Bless
- Shawn
Gospel is 1 Cori 15:1-5: How to be Saved is Romans 3:23-25, Eph 2:8-9, Hebrews 9:12
-How Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh, was born sinless by the Holy Ghost through Mary, lived a perfect life.
-Was crucified, nailed to that cursed tree, shed his blood on Calvary, was buried and rose again on the 3rd day.
-Ascending to heaven afterwards to put the liquid blood in the mercy seat to obtain eternal salvation for whosoever puts their faith alone in the blood atonement.
- Not by works lest any man may boast; including good deeds, going to church, repenting of sins, tithing, sinners prayer, calling on the name of the Lord.
Suggested Channel: Robert Breaker and read the King James Bible. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Make senc thank you
25:00 This makes no sense. How is it that the writer means the same thing when talking about the body and the soul. In the verse, the "body" and the "soul" are clearly TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. The verse makes a clear distinction. Again, this makes no sense
Ezekiel 16:53 “I will restore their fortunes, both the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters, and the fortunes of Samaria and her daughters, and I will restore your own fortunes in their midst,
54 that you may bear your disgrace and be ashamed of all that you have done, becoming a consolation to them.
55 As for your sisters, Sodom and her daughters shall return to their former state, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former state, and you and your daughters shall return to your former state.
Amen!!
What does that mean? Restoration to a state of disgrace and shame or restoration to their original state?
Jesus asks us to forgive and love our enemies whilst God is burning and hating His! Will God really do this? And this is your loving God. No, God will save all men!
There are extensive hell NDE testimonies on RUclips; how do you explain these?
Excellent presentation, by the way, more people might take a cue from you on how to present a difficult subject, congratulations!
I am not Edward. I upload his videos. This video I shot and edited. I could be wrong but I think this Question has been asked of Edward before. He might answer he does not attempt to answer NDE testimony's. He stays busy with what scriptures teach. in this regard scripture is silent on NDE so he would be too. I am sure his word would be better chosen but that might be the gist of it.
Oxygen deprivation and wishful, fearful thinking is possibly causing these images.
Well, then there are the "23 minutes in hell" and the Mary Baxter's "Divine Revelation" who claims 40 visitations of hell with Jesus; both "first hand accounts" by experienced Christians and both are disturbing beyond description. Never mind that "Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses."
I have also heard of of people talking about seeing loved one s in heaven etc even if they are non religious... will you believe their testimonies? I do believe that God can speak through dreams and alot of the time He will meet the person where they are and speak to them on a basis of their own understanding to protray a something important jesus did this with the pharisees He used a parable of lazarus to change their thinking about who's saved and who is not saved... thats not to say that he was in agreement with the greek philosphical teachings that came into their teachings for He also talsk about death as a sleep which to them was something to laugh at because it went against these ideas. For those who believe that their unsaved loved ones are in heaven based on something they witnessed you only have to point to the bible and show how David is called a man after God's own heart and yet Luke in the book of Acts records in peters sermon that "David is not yet ascended into the heavens" so either this persons dream is where you base your theology or the scriptures whcih ndicate that David remian in the grave awaiting the ressurection like most people. I hope this helps.
Bury someone 6 feet under for 30 days. If they come back and tell us what it's like on the other side, then you're on to something.
Of course the real question that needs to be asked is this: did he “fudge” the truth anywhere in his presentation. Just saying. Lol
many have made this claim but did not back it up with any new evidence they just continued to make the same arguments that he originally found faulty. so 30 years since he first published he came out with a third edition to address the 17 people who wrote 15 books in opposition but there were no new arguments.
fleetwd1 He was very convincing. I’m getting his book. I was just using a play in his name: Fudge. For humor.
@@rosschenault4227 yes he even jokes about his name. the first edition is still available published in 1982. the 3rd edition was published in 2011 I think. each have their value.
Contrary teaching to what Jesus taught. Jesus did not exaggerate, but explained Dan.12:2, that 'many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall AWAKE... to shame and everlasting contempt'.
If men cease to exist, then their 'contempt' would NOT be 'everlasting', and the truth would cease being true.
Oh my he surely wouldn't teach that no more now that he is in the Abyss!
there is no Abyss where he went. he went to sheol where YHWH did not abandon him. and he awaits the call from the grave. He was a good and faithful servant and is in Christ. perhaps you could also be blessed by his ministry if you lay aside your prejudices.
God is a consuming fire and 'everyone will be salted with fire.' It seems to be saying that God will cleanse us all.
where do you get everyone will be salted with fire? granted believers go through purification like fiery trials. even Jesus was made perfect through suffering. But where does the fire of gehenna salt believers. fire cleanses by burning things up if it is not extinguished.
@@fleetwd1 Mark 9:49
@@fleetwd1 Christians will NOT escape being "revealed”, “tried", "salted", and "baptized" by FIRE. It is going to be used ON EVERYONE. Here are four Scriptures which show that believers are specifically in view, but it includes "EVERYONE shall be salted with FIRE," and "EVERY MAN'S WORK ... shall be revealed by FIRE." (Matt.3:11; Mark 9:49; 1Pet.1:7; 1Cor.3:13).
@Patrick Ray HamiltonHamilton, You are a right son of a gun. You ask me a question and before you hear me out, you assume an answer. Makes no sense. The book of Proverbs warns us against that. To the scripture you raised, you have to bear in mind the context. This is part of the sermon on the mount. As such Christ went far above the simple meaning of the law. He strengthened it far beyond its normal teaching and provided a more severe form of punishment than simple death.
No person could possibly keep them. These commands gave most in the world no hope “Narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it” (Matthew 7:13). These teachings of our Lord were so severe, and more stringent than the simple statements of the Ten Commandments, that they led one to hopelessness in trying to keep them.
But, thank God, we learned the great truth that we are in Christ and share His life. How then could we be on a road that leads to life? The entrance into life is wide, not cramped. It is entered by grace, not by striving (Luke 13:24). The narrow way is not the evangel but the law. That leads to life, for those who keep it, but, alas of the few who find it, none observe it.
Correctly DIVIDE or partition the word of truth.
can someone address when the bible says they will have no rest day or night????
Below is Revelation 14: 11 from Young's Literal Translation, Exclusive. It refers to those who "...are bowing before the beast...." This is a reference to living people, on Earth. Best wishes.
✴ _"and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages; and they have no rest day and night, who _*_are bowing before the beast and his image,_*_ also if any doth receive the mark of his name."_
dont' use that. use the KJV. Revelation 14:11 King James Version 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.@@IsaacNussbaum
The Bible teaches the worm dieth not and the fire is never quenched. it's removed in all modern versions.
The worm that dieth not and the fire is never quneched. Everlasting fire is for real. This movie is a fake. Also, please be ye born again!
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:." - Romans 1:20
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;" - Romans 3:24-25
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" - 1 Cori 15:1-4
“This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.” - 1 Timonthy 1:15
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." - Ephesians 2:8 - 9
"But by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." - Hebrews 9:12
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." - 2 Timothy 2:15
"O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:" - 1 Tim 6:20
God Bless
- Shawn
Gospel is 1 Cori 15:1-5: How to be Saved is Romans 3:23-25, Eph 2:8-9, Hebrews 9:12
-How Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh, was born sinless by the Holy Ghost through Mary, lived a perfect life.
-Was crucified, nailed to that cursed tree, shed his blood on Calvary, was buried and rose again on the 3rd day.
-Ascending to heaven afterwards to put the liquid blood in the mercy seat to obtain eternal salvation for whosoever puts their faith alone in the blood atonement.
- Not by works lest any man may boast; including good deeds, going to church, repenting of sins, tithing, sinners prayer, calling on the name of the Lord.
Suggested Channel: Robert Breaker and read the King James Bible. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, rightly dividing the word of truth.
@@GodisGracious1031Ministries Using the KJV does not change anything. The passage is still talking about living people, on Earth, during the Tribulation. "...no rest DAY OR NIGHT...."
yes it does.@@IsaacNussbaum
I've read a number of books on this subject, primarily ALL YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT HELL: THREE CHRISTIAN VIEWS OF GOD'S FINAL SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM OF SIN by Steve Gregg (a very balanced book which presents the evidence for and against each view -- eternal torment, universal reconciliation or restoration, and conditional immortality or annihilation, even though Gregg himself subscribes to conditional immortality); and Gerry Beauchemin's book, HOPE BEYOND HELL, which sides with the universal reconciliation view. Of the former, there are two videos on RUclips of lectures by Steve Gregg on hell, which form the basis of his book. They are highly recommended viewing. Beauchemin believes so strongly in the conclusion of his study that he has made his more recent book, HOPE FOR ALL, available at no charge in PDF form through hopeforallfellowship.com/.
Edward Fudge is a very compelling teacher. Part of it is that he's a very compelling personality. I love listening to him. And he almost has me convinced, except for the fact that he doesn't seem to define who the "wicked" or "evil" are who will be destroyed or burnt up at the end. The Bible passages he uses implies that these "wicked" and "evil" are exceedingly bad actors on the world stage. Are they the "Hitlers" of the world, the rapists, the serial killers, the child abusers? The truly heinous types. Who are they? Simply nonbelievers, people who never professed Christ, by choice or ignorance?
And then another question: A few years ago I came to reject the idea of hell as eternal torment. I don't believe scripture supports it. I think it's a slam and an insult to the character of God. But in terms of the other two alternatives, why not a combination of both? For the unrepentant, the unbeliever, the person who lived their life in rebellion and independence of Christ, why not a process of purging after death, a burning away of whatever kept the person from accepting the grace and mercy of God in Christ, enabling the person to finally accept what Christ accomplished for them? And for the truly reprobate, the truly evil or wicked person, the "Hitlers" and so forth, the purifying fire which might cleanse 99.9999% of humanity that died outside of Christ, would eventually consume completely those whose stubborn rebellion keeps them from eventually turning?
In short, while I highly respect Edward Fudge, I'm not convinced he answers all key questions. If anyone has any insights beyond what he presents, I'd be interested in reading them.
I knew Edward about as well as anyone not related. He regarded me as if I were related, as he did other friends. I think for him to define the wicked he would regard this as perhaps being judgmental on his part. So those answers will come from God in the end. The worst of all offenses is to put others who differ with your religious viewpoint to death. Paul fits that crime well, so who are we to describe who is, or who is not in the book of life. Edward has told me he would not mind it a bit if God does what Universalism purposes. He knows however there are texts that Universalists do not address and biblically the Conditionalists like himself are more in harmony with the body of scripture because of those texts. Ezekiel 3:20 seems to suggest we have an obligation to warn someone who turns from righteousness and commits iniquity to warn them or their blood will be on us. Sometimes I think they ignore such passages for those that suggest a universal salvation. Paradoxes seem to be contradictory but they balance and the universal texts need to be balanced off with those that suggest the wicked perish if they do not turn. I hope this helps you understand why Edward might be silent on who might make up the wicked. We are told Christ died for the ungodly (some translations render ungodly as wicked) Rom 5:6, 4:5
btw i would be interested in the links to those videos you mentioned and i appreciate the link to the book HOPE FOR ALL.
HELL IS REAL FOLKS. Unbelief is the worst sin, apart from the unforgivable sin. Thinking that everyone is saved by God's Grace, no matter what, is so wrong. Jesus made it more than clear, our God of love is also a Just God who judges sin and condemns unrepentant sinners.
that is not inconsistent with Edward's teaching. I am not sure if you realized this by your post.
@@fleetwd1 Kate wrote, "HELL IS REAL...." Is that consistent with Edward's teaching? I am a Conditionalist, myself, but the imagery of Gehenna as the final fate of the unredeemed seems to preclude hell, to me, at least.
@@IsaacNussbaum to Edward "Hell is real" it just is not what Eternal Conscious Torment adherents believe it to be. it is a matter of Duration not of reality. He believes the fire of Hell accomplishes it goal and cleanses forever that which is opposed to God and His rule. If it never ends it never accomplishes an end to crying death etc. etc. So yes Hell is Real.
I do not know what Kate was trying to make of her statement but Edward would agree to what she said in words but not what she may have been implying by it. Edward is often misunderstood as not believing in Hell which is nonsense.
Clearly you didn't listen to the video. You're arguing against something he never said.
You're also confusing hell with the lake of fire. Hell gets thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the final fate of the wicked. It's the second death and yes they are destroyed, consumed by it.
@@fleetwd1 I apologize for my tardy reply. I'm afraid that I just now saw your post. Hell, supposedly, is a place where disembodied spirits/souls are consciously tortured. I do not see that as being Biblical. The dead are not conscious. They cannot be tortured. And when they are resurrected, they will not be disembodied. They will have mortal bodies. Thus I conclude that Hell does not exist. Moreover I know of no place in Scripture which says that there is. (Disclaimer: I know about Luke 16: 19-31. That, in my view, can be easily shown to be a morality tale and not a historical account.) All the best, my friend.
Mathew 5:30
And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
Edward does not deny hell. he just finds the description of it in Scripture is not the description given of it in the majority view held by many Christians. your text does not address this issue.
don't cut your hand off, brother!😊
I have now come to the conclusion that maybe God is going to do all 3 of those "Propositions", depending on the gravity of the offence or Sins committed... In other words, some may go to the place of Eternal Conscious Torment, some to the Temporal Fire that punishes and purifies and allows for Salvation out of the Fire and lastly some could be simply punished in the Fire of Hell and also annihilated and totally destroyed. This is my middle-ground in terms of Theology on Hell.
I must say, it's the first ever Sermon I have heard on this topic, that includes the element of humor!
Thanks for sharing your conclusion. I am open to two but Eternal Conscious Torment is out. the other two have scripture support but I think "the consuming fire" is the most solid biblical position. I would not be at all disappointed if God surprised me with universal salvation. I know God has made provision in Christ to be just and justify all who believe. I just do not think the universal salvation adherents deal effectively enough with the abundance of scripture that say the end of the wicked is "eternal" death, destruction or similar language. Edward has said as to duration, God may chose to mete out a variety of duration based upon His justice. But this would be entirely left to God. any duration at all would seem like forever to those that suffer this. So I would accept varying degrees that may seem like eternity those who refuse God's offer of salvation. But as to a never ending process I think it is a clear misrepresentation of a few texts. Yes Edward has a sense of humor that comes through.
fleetwd1 Weak! “Just let everyone live as they want with no punishment.” That is the message some might get with that. I would. But I know better. 😢
@@johnclhugyugihjbvgbkj9729 A punishment is not bad as long as it fits the crime.
The wicked only are wiped out for an eon are an age.
The word's they get forever from is Aionios are Aionion these words are derived from aion.
Which mean's a peried of time are an age.
The only way you translate aion are any of it's form's to eternity are ever lasting would be with something that on it's own is eternal like God.
John There will be GODS judgement before being consumed in the fire. During that judgment GOD could replay hitlers life back to him and let him feel the same pain and suffering that he inflicted on the Jewish people and then he would be totally destroyed so don’t think you can just do as you please in this life and get away with it. Anyway just thought I would add that.
The best thing to do when thinking like this is to STOP. It's all really that simple.
Gary Doss elaborate. Stop why?
Gary Doss Yep ... you’re exactly right.
Audio is not working.
working on mine. things to check, video on mute, computer volume level, or head phones plugged in. hope this helps..
@@fleetwd1
Still not working unfortunately. You might have accidentally muted the audio from RUclips.
@@k9ine999 no it is on your end. it works on RUclips or I would not hear sound.
however RUclips sometimes mutes videos which can be aggravating but the control is on you to click the speaker Symbol right after the fast forward symbol. then raise the level. FB does this more than RUclips does. I also have this same class without visual aids but having visual aids helps
it can be found here: ruclips.net/video/Ay8qUIsHBfY/видео.html
@@k9ine999 if you're using earbuds, this video only plays through left speaker.
Anyone know his views on Satan or women in ministry?
on www.edwardfudge.com he has a blog called gracEmail that is searchable by topic.
@@fleetwd1 Thank you much!
Destruction was 70AD
that was the temple. but where in Edward's presentation does this relate?
death is separation....after all how can you have a second death, if the first death annihialted someone....
Scripture is clear resurrection happens to all both the just and the unjust. final judgment occurs after resurrections not before. the 2nd death occurs when sentenced to it. This will cause to perish. no future resurrection after the perishing. popular view of hell after death is not biblical. Christ causes all to be brought back to life to face judgment. only after resurrection and judgment will annihilation occur. it is complete perishing forever.
Nowhere in the Bible is death defined as separation.
But since Jesus IS life, how could you live forever separated from Him, aka LIFE?
God defined death early on and it is very clear. Notice the personal pronouns here: “You shall surely die.” “From dust YOU came, to dust YOU shall return.”
God could not have said it any clearer.
Well there is torment while in hell. Traditionalists forget that. Being in the darkness awaiting the judgement. What would the concept of time be?
Imagine being on death row..... Awaiting the judgement. I believe that's a good analogy of hell.
The traditionalist must prove one point for me.
That the wicked are granted the gift of eternal life.
If they can not prove that in scripture I must conclude The wicked perish. I know it is a special death because it is called the 2nd death and Jesus Christ followers are not hurt by it.
We can see there are two resurrections in Revelation 20. The emphasis is the first which is Jesus Christ's followers.
These are not hurt by the second death.
So I also want to know what is the second death in the traditionalist view?
Why even use the word hell? It's not greek. Its Germanic. Why not the actual words used. Hades, tartarus, and sheol. He said Hell= consumes and then said God is a consuming fire. Lol so God is Hell. Lol
You missed Gehenna which Jesus used. Hades is the Greek replacement for the Hebrew word Sheol. Edward gets "God is a consuming fire" from Hebrews 12:29 But similar ideas come from Deut. 4:24 "For the LORD your God is a devouring fire" see also Deut. 9:3; Ps.50:3; & Amos 7:4.
Y did the rich man want water if he's dead .
The parable literally says they are dead.
Unless we receive the gift of eternal life, we will perish:
■ "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)
How will the unsaved perish?
■ "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23)
After resurrection and judgment, the unsaved will die a second time. It's called the "second death" in the Bible, in Revelation 2:11, 20:6, 20:14 and 21:8. After the second death there is no life and there is no hope of resurrection. It's the end of you. You'll never "be" again. That's what it means to "perish."
That's how God mercifully deals with those who reject Him.
Here’s some examples of perishing from the Old Testament:
■ "For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be" (Psalms 37:10).
■ "As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation" (Proverbs 10:25).
■ "The way of the LORD is strength to the upright: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity" (Proverbs 10:29).
The word “hell” appears in Bible *_translations_* because hell-believing *_translators_* put it there, paving over the meanings of three different original Greek words (New Testament). Those words have nothing to do with a place of eternal, fiery torment. Here’s an example:
■ “And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire” (Mark 9:47)
"Hell" in that verse was how translators translated the Greek word γέεννα -geena or gehenna in English.
So, what was γέεννα, really? It was the valley (just outside Jerusalem) which was used as a dump in Jesus’ time. Constant fire and maggots there were sure to destroy whatever was thrown in. But translators said nothing about that dump. Instead, they translated γέεννα as “hell.”
Using “hell” in that verse was grossly misleading. Jesus was not talking about eternal torment in some sort of fiery hell. Jesus was saying the unsaved would perish. They would surely be destroyed, just as trash thrown into that dump was sure to be destroyed. They would be figuratively thrown into the dump.
Translators (especially King James Version, 1611) made a real mess when they used the word “hell” in place of those three Greek words. They had inherited their hell concept, by tradition, through the Catholic church. By using “hell” they were twisting the meanings of the Greek words, making the Bible appear to support their doctrine of a place of perpetual, fiery torment.
Over time some some translators have recognized this error, noting the original Greek words in footnotes, or even using the original Greek words directly in the translated text . . . and not using “hell.” Young’s Literal Translation (YLT), for example, never uses “hell.”
The damage caused by the translators continues to this day. Millions of reasonable people dismiss Christianity as nonsense when they are told the God of mercy will sadistically torment the unsaved forever and ever in some sort of fiery hell.
People often struggle with the thought of perishing because they've been led to believe they have an immortal soul that leaves the body at death and lives - somewhere - forever. That's actually a pagan doctrine that has crept into institutional Christianity over the centuries. (It's a repackaged version of Satan's lie, "Ye shall not surely die" -Genesis 3:4.)
Here's the pagan Greek philosopher Plato; see if this sounds like what most professing Christians have been led to believe by their churches:
_"Do we believe that there is such a thing as death? And is this anything but the separation of soul and body? And being dead is the attainment of this separation; when the soul exists in herself, and is parted from the body and the body is parted from the soul . . . beyond question the soul is immortal and imperishable, and our souls will truly exist in another world!"_ (Plato, in _Phaedo,_ about 360 BC)
➔ Salvation is not about "where you'll spend eternity." Wrong paradigm! *You won't even have an eternity unless you receive from God the gift of eternal life!* Otherwise, you'll perish in that "second death."
And that, my friends, is how the God of mercy deals with those who reject Him.
In Matthew 25:46 Jesus describes the fate of the unsaved:
■ "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
The "everlasting punishment" is the second death, after which there is no life and no hope of resurrection. The punishment of the unsaved is like the execution of a criminal: it is "everlasting" in the sense that it is completed, final, permanent and irrevocable. It is not "everlasting" in the sense of being active, ongoing, perpetual punishing.
Ezekiel 16:55 KJVS
When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.
1 The word of the Lord came to me: 2 “Son of man, confront Jerusalem with her detestable practices and say, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says *to Jerusalem:* (Ez. 15; NIV) Ezekiel 16 is talking to/about cities which will exist again on the new Earth.
@@IsaacNussbaum Isaiah 66:24 KJVS
And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
@@REAL88E I quote that verse often. I use it to show that Mark 9: 48 is not talking about eternal conscious torment.
@@IsaacNussbaum I've noticed a lot of emotional loving people can't believe the clear text and use all sorts of things to deny hell at all cost.
@@REAL88E For the record, I am not denying anything. The original Bible manuscripts do not contain the word "hell" or any word which means hell. Sheol is not hell. Hades is not hell. Gehenna is not hell. Thus, there is no hell to deny.
When he started talking about how even if we don't see the wicked snuffed out it's ok because God with do it. I got the impression he is looking forward to wicked people being snuffed out. Nothing in me wants to see anyone snuffed out. That sounds like someone that enjoys revenge. What i am saying is that Jesus Christ ( God/man) and third person of the Trinity said to love our enemies and do good to those who persecute us. That is a different message then the so-called message of the "god" of the old testament. These messages are at complete odds with eachother and imo cannot be reconciled. Either God's wrath wins or redemption and love win. There is no middle ground.
it is difficult dealing with feelings or impression one gets from a video. i can only assure you that Edward does not delight in the extermination of one living soul nor does God. I have heard Edward say he thinks the number of unrepentant humans is likely far less than we believe it to be. But since this is taught in scripture, he will teach it. He believes it depicts a final end to all who oppose God's rule and includes finality to some non entities of Death and Hates as well as any entity who opposes God's rule. This symbolic imagery of a lake of fire depicts a second death of which there is no escape. It will destroy all that encounters it and all that does will be no more. Love wins in either case. A Lover never forces.
How do you explain this in light of the Holy Spirit's conviction which seems pretty violent? I've been convicted three different times and although they may not to be forced as you say they are altogether convincing leaving little room to argue or escape, I imagine a final judgement to be similar...
Eternal hellfire is a psychopaths wet dream
Mskes good sense to me!
perished.....this means became worthless.....the example given is a worn out tire....that is no longer, of any value....it is still there, it has not gone anywhere....but because it has no value, it is thrown out...
good try, no cigar. Cambridge English Dictionary
To die, especially in an accident or by being killed, or to be destroyed:
Three hundred people perished in the earthquake
.
He believes that Europe must create closer ties or it will perish.
Ridiculous. Killed, destroyed, perish are all used to describe their fate and their meaning is clear.
God's word is clear, to God ALONE belongs immortality. And it also says when WE put on immortality, at the first resurrection of the righteous. WE aren't born with it. It's not part of our nature.
Notice in the New Testament it's ALWAYS about how to obtain eternal life. The contrast is eternal life verses being destroyed or perishing. NOT going to heaven or hell like we say under the false teaching of the immortal soul.
It's amazing how Christians are so willing to reinterpret words to mean the exact opposite of what they actually mean just to defend this pagan teaching of eternal torture.
New American Standard Bible
where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED....it seems to be quite straightforward.....so good luck, if there is such a thing, on judgement day....you have studied and know languages....hmmm.....does that include the English language....
He does talk about this at round about 13 minutes.
@@lisablue6020 once again....go luck, on that day, of judgement...
Once again you are guilty of reading meaning into scripture that isn't there, while ignoring the plainly stated meaning in other scriptures.
How long it takes an object to burn up has nothing to do with how long a fire burns. Throw a piece of paper into a furnace and it burns up in seconds. But the fire keeps burning doesn't it?
How long do you think it would take you to burn up in the sun? Milliseconds. Yet the sun will burn for billions of years.
As to not being quenched, it just means it won't be put out. Even when the sun buns out. It burns out. It's not being quenched. No one will quench it.
You're imputing the characteristics of the lake of fire to the characteristics of the wicked.
It is possible Hades is a bit like a temporary punishment? that Jesus spoke of when he said, "you will not get out until you pay every penny"....then Hades would be the leveling field for punishment and then later throw Hades and death into the lake of fire to their second and final death. If not than the Lake of Fire is on each as deserved in duration and intensity until the very end of the age!
The texts in Matthew 5:25&26 are dealing with being thrown into Prison not Hades. (See also Luke 12:58 for same details) It sounds like a debtors prison from the context.
Hades is the grave or realm of the dead where both righteous and unrighteous go to await resurrection. It, the grave, will come to an end when all evil comes to an end.
hades is a greek god and that sounds like purgatory of the cahotlism
I WIN!!!!!! I RUclips win!!!
🤔 wants water, like in the Bible.
the worst thing one can hear......depart from me.....New American Standard Bible
"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels
So? Nothing in that verse contradicts what he's saying. Eternal fire doesn't mean YOU burn forever.
It makes no sense that an eternal, all consuming fire that's unquenchable doesn't actually have the power to burn up anything.
25:00 this explanation is completely illogical. If soul and body are the same then man can and do kill both body and soul hahahaha. So why would the verse say to not fear "those" that can kill the body.????? this verse is simply saying man cant kill the soul so dont fear man. instead fear God who can actually kill the soul
Jesus never use the word hell either Jesus said gehenna talkin about the Valley of the son of hinnom the Valley of the gorge on the southside of Jerusalem and he was talkin about Earthly destruction
No, he did use hell... wescort and hort didnt' believe in hell. so they changed it to some hades or something greek mytology. he did use hell. KJV
this is more of a rant.......
Alright when you said Jesus used the word hell I was done. Gehena is the word used in the time for the valley of hinom. Glory be to God when His truth be revealed. As the bible says all will be saved especially those that believe.
Gehena is translated hell in English. Edward is addressing those who say Jesus had a lot to say about hell. He explains what the Valley of Hinom was and is. it was a garbage heap that burned and smoldered continuously in Jesus' time.
How does lake of fire then fit in then as thats called the "second death" and hell is thrown into it? Destruction is thrown into destruction?
yes, there will be no more destruction afterward. it is an end to destruction.
Those who uphold idea of hell should discuss / debate the preterist view (I agree w/ this view) that all was fulfilled as it happened in 70 AD. www.preteristcentral.com/pdf/pdf%20books/1878_russel_parousia.pdf
www.ecclesia.org/truth/preterist-questions.html
Hell is the grave, The Lake of Fire obliterates whoever enters it and turns into ashes, even graves are burned up.
Hades is thrown into the lake of fire, which means hades is destroyed.
Who cares what you Think? It is common when people go against tradition, it is the person who is in error. The wicked do not end--they will be in Lake of Fire as will hell--so you do not even have the end correct! God made angels and humans to live FOREVER! You cannot establish doctrine on one verse. Consuming fire is more like nothing can stand before God.
tradition can be a terrible hindrance. Jesus opposed human religious tradition. it was tradition that insisted he had to die to preserve the traditions of religious man. tradition must always be checked by the Word of God. Jesus used God's word to expose the erroneous traditions in his day. this angered the traditionalists. It still does to this day.
The Word says clearly in 1 Timothy 6:6, speaking of God, "who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light,..." Man on the other hand is mortal and capable of death. Immortality of the soul is no where taught in scripture. it is Platonic thinking that crept into Christianity by former philosophers like Tertullian in the 2nd century AD. God made Adam mortal and should he eat the fruit of the forbidden tree God warns him, "you will surely die." see Genesis 2:17 Your teaching expressed above makes God's word to Adam a lie. you are saying man can not die. Hmmm I wonder who is right you and your tradition based on man's philosophy, or God and his word????
Should you listen to Edward carefully you will find it is not what he thinks. it clearly comes from what the bible teaches about the subject.
He keeps saying: I believe.
I will listen again but he clearly teaches what the bible says not what he thinks. He does believe it but he believes it because it is what the bible teaches. He grew up with the traditional understanding and he believed that until he surprisingly found the bible does not teach what he believed. He was hired to research this subject. During that time he slowly began to realize the bible did not teach what he had been taught all his life.
it might help if you put the time where he keeps saying I believe. I am not hearing that i am at least 1/4 way through and he keeps saying this is what the bible says.
God made angels and humans to live forever? Really? You're wrong. Way wrong:
"God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal..." - 1 Tim 6:15-16
You must have missed that word "alone".
theology is stupid in the US
He’s very jittery in this video.
he explains he had Parkinson's.
Sorry, missed that part. ❤️✝️☦️🙏🏼
Fire is eternal, but without souls? What’s the purpose of fire being eternal? Sorry, this position is bankrupt! Nice man, but he is deceived and deceiving! Jesus said depart from me INTO EVERLASTING FIRE!
Thanks for the comment.
Jude verse 7 gives Sodom and Gomorrah as an example of "eternal fire." they both are not presently still burning, nor were they the day after when Abraham went there. Gen 19:28. says, "he saw dense smoke rising from the land, like smoke from a furnace." so your conception of what is meant by eternal fire lacks biblical support. Soul means a living being. for them to be living in torment not able to die would mean they have eternal life which is unable to perish, this also has no biblical support. (see John 3:16) the choice has always been between life and death (Duet 30:19; Prov 8:35&36 and many, many more) the wicked choose death over life. the Lake of Fire is symbolic for the 2nd death. destroyed in it is death and hates. so death shall be no more. It seems you still need to do some rethinking on the subject.
There's absolutely nothing whatsoever deceiving here my brother.
The correct translation of the words Olam and aoin (Hebrew and Greek, respectively) are as follows ;
An age.
A period of time.
In context, the word eternal in biblical perspective, is an absolute, not a literal.
Remember, very little of the bible is to be taken literally. It is nearly all 'dark sayings' and 'parables'.
Very little is black and white.
But one thing that we can absolutely guarantee, without any fear of error, is that a loving creator could not even conceive of eternally torturing even the most evil of creatures for finite crimes.
There's only two possibilities;
Total annihilation or eventual restoration.
Both positions are possible according to scripture.
But eternal torture is definitely not supportable according to scripture.
The fire of gehenna(The dump outside of Jerusalem where all the most toxic waste was burned) is said to ascend forever and ever.
Do you see it burning now?
No.
Just one example.
Sodom and Gamora are not still burning, are they?
Your argument is the one that's bankrupt. You're using several logical fallacies to defend your erroneous belief, while he lists numerous scriptures that plainly state what he's arguing.
Just about any fire that's ever existed has lasted longer than what it takes to burn up a single object.
The length of the fire has nothing to do with how long it takes to consume an object. How long would you last at the surface of the sun? Milliseconds. Yet the sun will continue to burn for billions of years even though you were consumed instantly.
It's quite absurd to think an all consuming, unquenchable fire that is eternal can't actually burn anything up.
@@fleetwd1 I agree.
unreal how many people are buying into this absolute lie!!! yeah, I dared to post this! we are eternal beings Ed Fudge-the-truth. not from the moment we are born, but from the moment we are conceived. ETERNAL souls. even the slight chance of us NOT being eternal opens the door to so many forms of sin. this isn't quality spiritual education, it's totally demonic.
Wrong
right
+Fakey Fakerson where in the Bible does it say we are eternal beings?
+T Sammut Matthew 25:46 for one
+Fakey Fakerson were not talking about the righteous. We're talking about the wicked. So according to that verse the righteous are eternal. Now show me where it says all men are made eternal
The Bible teaches the worm dieth not and the fire is never quenched. it's removed in all modern versions.
The worm that dieth not and the fire is never quneched. Everlasting fire is for real. This movie is a fake. Also, please be ye born again!
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:." - Romans 1:20
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;" - Romans 3:24-25
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" - 1 Cori 15:1-4
“This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.” - 1 Timonthy 1:15
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." - Ephesians 2:8 - 9
"But by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." - Hebrews 9:12
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." - 2 Timothy 2:15
"O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:" - 1 Tim 6:20
God Bless
- Shawn
Gospel is 1 Cori 15:1-5: How to be Saved is Romans 3:23-25, Eph 2:8-9, Hebrews 9:12
-How Jesus Christ is God manifested in the flesh, was born sinless by the Holy Ghost through Mary, lived a perfect life.
-Was crucified, nailed to that cursed tree, shed his blood on Calvary, was buried and rose again on the 3rd day.
-Ascending to heaven afterwards to put the liquid blood in the mercy seat to obtain eternal salvation for whosoever puts their faith alone in the blood atonement.
- Not by works lest any man may boast; including good deeds, going to church, repenting of sins, tithing, sinners prayer, calling on the name of the Lord.
Suggested Channel: Robert Breaker and read the King James Bible. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, rightly dividing the word of truth.
*"it's (sic) removed in all modern versions."* You, sir, are a liar and a false teacher.
New International Version
where “’the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched.’
New Living Translation
‘where the maggots never die and the fire never goes out.’
English Standard Version
‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’
Berean Standard Bible
where ‘their worm never dies, and the fire is never quenched.’
Berean Literal Bible
where 'their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.'
King James Bible
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
New King James Version
where ‘Their worm does not die And the fire is not quenched.’
New American Standard Bible
where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT EXTINGUISHED.
NASB 1995
where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.
NASB 1977
where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.
Legacy Standard Bible
where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.
Amplified Bible
where THEIR WORM [that feeds on the dead] DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT PUT OUT.
Christian Standard Bible
where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
where Their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.
American Standard Version
where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“Where their worm does not die and their fire is not quenched.”
Contemporary English Version
The worms there never die, and the fire never stops burning.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Where the worm dieth not, and the fire is not extinguished.
English Revised Version
where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
In hell worms that eat the body never die, and the fire is never put out.
Good News Translation
There 'the worms that eat them never die, and the fire that burns them is never put out.'
International Standard Version
In that place, worms never die, and the fire is never put out.
Literal Standard Version
where their worm is not dying, and the fire is not being quenched;
Majority Standard Bible
where ‘their worm never dies, and the fire is never quenched.’
New American Bible
where ‘their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.’
NET Bible
where their worm never dies and the fire is never quenched.
New Revised Standard Version
where their worm never dies, and the fire is never quenched.
New Heart English Bible
'where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.'
Webster's Bible Translation
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Weymouth New Testament
where their worm does not die and the fire does not go out.
World English Bible
‘where their worm doesn’t die, and the fire is not quenched.’
Young's Literal Translation
where their worm is not dying, and the fire is not being quenched;
I'm sorry, I missed your apology for being a lying sack of equine ordure. Can I impose on you to post it again?
According to Isaiah, the unsaved will be destroyed by worms and cremated by fire. “And they will go out and look on the DEAD BODIES of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched….” (Isaiah 66: 24, NIV) (In Mark 9: 48 Jesus, talking about Gehenna, quotes Isaiah 66: 24.)
@@sir-adric-the-brave No, hell is everlasting.
@@GodisGracious1031Ministries I quoted the passage from Isaiah which explains what worms that don't die do, and what unquenchable fire does. They do not torment the conscious. They destroy the dead. If you don't like what it says, that will have to be between you and your maker. I have already done my part.
24 “Then he cried and said, `Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented (3600 ὀδυνάω odunao) in this flame (5395 φλόξ phlox).’
25 “But Abraham said, `Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted (3870 παρακαλέω parakaleo) and you are tormented (3600 ὀδυνάω odunao). (Lk. 16:22-25 NKJ
Doesn't sound like "once and done" to me🔥
too bad that you do not understand that the passage has nothing to do with the punishment of the wicked at the end of time. note if is speaking to anything like this, it would be of the intermediate state between death and resurrection, it is not after final judgment. But even this is not a factual account of the intermediate state depicted here. the point of the parable is this, "if they do not listen to Moses they will not listen even if someone rises from the dead." Which is twice proven afterward in the resurrection of real Lazarus, brother of Mary and Martha, and the resurrection of Jesus himself.
Edward addresses this at 1 34-2 41 in this video of Q&A
ruclips.net/video/_-Cl7oEOebU/видео.html
It's a parable. Not to be taken literally or a teaching about the afterlife. Otherwise you have to believe we get to hear the screams of people burning in hell for all eternity.
Oh. And there's about a billion people resting on Abraham's bosom.