Why You SHOULDN'T Play Small Stakes Poker
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- Опубликовано: 12 июн 2024
- If you're thinking about playing poker, then you should definitely reconsider if you're playing in small stakes. In small stakes, the rake is incredibly high, making it nearly impossible to win.
Playing in small stakes is a great way to learn the game and develop your skills, but it's not worth it if you're not going to be able to beat the rake. If you're serious about winning money at poker, then you need move up as quickly as possible.
0:00 - Intro
4:16 - Preflop
5:05 - Flop
5:19 - Turn
8:27 - River
8:46 - Hero decision
11:40 - Reveal
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Игры
I knew before the reveal the opponent had to have at least AA, AQ, QJ, or 66. Classic $1/2/2 hand. After this opponent calls the flop I probably check turn and river but definitely at least check back the river at this point. $1/2/2 games will drive you crazy with how bad the players play and the weird thing is you find yourself getting mad that they have those monster hands and don't take all your money like they should with them.
One thing I find really fascinating about poker is that because there is so much luck in the short run, it can be difficult to know how skillfully you're actually playing. Add to that the fact that it is very easy to self-deceive and convince yourself that you're better than you really are, and you get this mix where you can make money at poker, precisely because so many other players are confused about their skill.
If poker were more like chess, and the skill differential were more readily apparent, then losing players would quickly stop playing and it would create this cascading adverse selection wave, where progressively better players would stop playing (as the average skill level would increase as relatively bad players drop out), and very quickly poker would not be a thing.
TL;DR - bad players don't know they're bad and that's why you can earn an income at poker
basically yes! it's even funny how a lot of guys when they run well for a month puff their chest out and think they're Phil Ivey. Of course most of them will blow all the money thinking they can make that every month. Then when they run normal they think they're running bad.
You are very correct about that. Anyone who thinks they run bad more often than they run good, has no idea what they're talking about. Even if they ARE running bad more than good, that means they haven't put in enough hours for it to even out, proving that they're not qualified to judge whether they're running bad or just a losing player.
@@EfficientRVer Dude, I had my aces cracked twice in a row
Run bad is a main reason why most players lose.
The average player does run bad, when you consider the rake. When six player sit down with 100 each, and play a number of hands, after some time if they are equally good or lucky, be six players with $50 each. To break even you need to be far above the average player in the long run.
@@bjornlangoren3002 Yes of course rake means that poker is on average a -EV game. So to beat poker you can't just be better than average, you have to be substantially better than average.
There are a ton of 1/2's around the country with a 5 dollar rake, not drop, where the players are so bad it's not an issue at all.
Absolutely! Mass/Nh!
If the rake is too high, it's actually better.
@@TheFailedmessiah lol
Never going to beat that high of percentage rake. Unless you're a crusher. That's why only a very small percentage of players are actually profitable players
This is too funny, about how you can’t beat a $1/$2 with a $6 hour rake, or a $5 max rake.
I played $1/$2, $1/$3, & $2/$5, with $2/$5 being our big game.
I made more than the guys doing these videos.
These games can be very profitable, the players are horrible. If you can read people, it’s easy to be very profitable.
Bart's logic on the flop is great and I've seen this. The kind of nitty player who raises all their strongest hands for "protection"
I put in 1k hours at 1/2 at Lucky chances and lost 1bb / hour. I played the same style at Parx 1/2 for 1k hours and won 11bb/hour. The rake makes a HUGE difference!
Is it the actual rake, or is it that better players gravitate towards a certain rake format? Idk.
@@timmyp34 I believe it’s the amount of money taken off the table / hour by rake, along with max buy in caps that can ruin the game to be not profitable
When comparing ANYWHERE to Parx, you can't neglect the fact that it generally has the worst players anywhere, for a given level of stakes. I once sat next to a guy who drives an 18-wheeler moving truck (for some national moving company). We were at Bally's New Orleans. After a few hours, he asked what I thought of that poker room. I told him it was one of the easiest games to beat that I'd found. He agreed, and said he'd always try to spend slack time there, if he could drive hard for a couple of days to build up a time cushion on when the truck had to be where it was going. Said he's played everywhere in the USA, and considered it the 2nd easiest room. Parx was 1st. When he heard that my home casinos were Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun, he said those are the worst/toughest games in the country for a given level of stakes, and I agreed. Foxwoods is where you go to prove you're a really good player and slug it out against nits, rocks, and pros. Parx is where you go to take bad players' money. New Orleans is were you go to take drunk tourists' money. Or better yet, to take it from the local pros who gather up the drunk tourist money and then hand it over to you when they think you're a drunk tourist. Vegas thinks they have the toughest games. At the highest stakes, that is true. But at low and mid stakes, the players in Vegas are halfway between being fish and being Foxwoods players. Most consistently winning 1-2 Foxwoods players would have no problem winning at 5-10 in Vegas or any Los Angeles room.
@@EfficientRVer What’s your thoughts on the difference from a nit to a rock? Occasionally I get labeled as a nit but I consider myself a rock. It’s usually the lag style player that starts talking shit calling me a nit.
@@frank78855 I think the difference is that a nit is too easily bluffed off their hand, but isn't necessarily as selective preflop as a rock. I think a rock is someone who is very selective preflop and willing to call down a bluffer, check raise or even lead and reraise with a big draw or big hand, and so forth. With an image such that most people would rather face big bets from anyone else. But my impressions of different player descriptions were mostly formed in the days of playing 10-20 Limit Hold'Em 15+ years ago. It's harder to define a rock at NLHE, I think, because it was much easier to consistently win at limit just by being tight preflop and then playing those hands well. At NLHE, that style doesn't get much action, except as a short stack in multi-way pots where the other players only care about the big side pot with each other.
Just play 2-5. People make a bigger deal out of 1-2 vs 2-5 than what it is. Of course, that depends on where you’re playing.
I’ve seen great players at 1-2 and horrible players at 2-5 and everything in between. The skill difference is negligible. (In Detroit casinos)
I’m speaking of live poker only, where the social part of the game is still the key to winning, as much as the gto robots don’t want to admit it.
In my local casino which basically is the only casino around in Cherokee NC 1/3 is lowest stake with 300 buy in. The 2/5 is match the stack so by the time night time gets there the people have like 3-5 k stacks i am not even close to being rolled for that so I am confined to low stakes while I build a roll it sucks
There are no great players at 1/2 lol
$7 criminal rake is the exact reason I stopped playing $1/$2, as well as the $8 raked $2/$3-5!! I'm an advocate of people stop playing these games in protest!. Letting the card rooms double their take over last few years is not acceptable, and it's up to the players to force change. To make it worse, in my town, it's a bunch of 70-something rocks sitting all day and night, like a retirement home! Forget that mess!
I play at a few games of 1/2 with 10%, $15 max rake per hand and another of 1/3 10% $17 max because theres no other games around me and no casinos anywhere close to me
WWDND? What would Daniel Negreanu do?
Daniel Negreanu states that he plays for the love of the game and the challenge of it, and that it was never about the money for him! That's like less than a fraction of a percent of the players out there! has nothing to do with the rest of us, who only play for the money/goal
I play in a similar game in MN, all the games are limit, so it's a spread limit game and the only one that even resembles NL is the 2-100 SL game so I play that. The player pool is just awful and the game plays weird because you can't play properly post if the pot gets bloated pre. A lot of 70-80% vpipers, standard open is anywhere from 10-20, players can show up with anything. Game is beatable but insane and requires a way different way of playing
It’s not just beatable its crushable.
I think I'd love that game. Before switching to NL, I played LHE from 4-8 through 20-40, won at all levels, and liked the game better than NLHE. Hand selection, self discipline, and playing draws mathematically correctly are all you need to beat the crap out of average limit players. When your chance of pushing someone off a hand is low, you really learn when to go for a cheap showdown, vs get out of disasters early, vs pile endless money in for value against multiple opponents with either a big hand or big draw.
I've met this exact kind of player. He's the type that will CALL with all his holdings as long as he can improve to the nuts. Once he called the turn and checked the river, there's absolutely no point in betting 1 pair type of hands for value, because this Villian will fold ALL of his missed hands, and call with these 2 pair plus hands. Your bet on river should either be nutted, or turning your hand into a bluff.
In my 1-3 game "bad players" with QJ there would let u know on flop or turn , they would not be thinking about check call all the way from fear of being outdrawn . They would raise the flop 90% of the time and if they decide to slowly the flop u would heard about it on the turn. Rake is in form of a session fee 7$ every 30 minutes. Does that mean we should widen our range because they don't take rake out of every pot?
You called the BB a super nit for folding JJ on 9 hi flop but claimed you play less than 10% of hands. He called you down with top 2 because you’re the nit. If you’re playing small stakes short sessions playing your hands fast to drag pots. The rake and calling to see flops will keep you in the hole unless the game is uncapped or super deep.
they're both nits. when 2 nits are in a pot together logically unless it's monster vs monster they both play pretty scared.
The adjustment is to bluff more and go for thick value
I always called it fat value but same thing
I play in a room with 1-2 blinds with a 2-100 spread bet limit and beat the game for over 20bb/hr for 1.5 years before the pandemic and a little less for about a year after. Haven't played recently due to health and other reasons. Rake was 5+1. When the successful high stakes pros either speak of their experience at these stakes or say you can't beat the rake, I chuckle. Yeah, I am sure they play technically better than I do, and they can do things in other games I can't, but there is something they are not getting about these games that makes them profitable. First you have to have a room with action. I have seen 1-2 with a bunch of old nits, and while you can make money, you can't make a living at it. Second you need to table select. You can play most tables, but you need to change gears or maybe leave when you find a "tough" table. Regs are fine but daily regs are often not and be careful of the tournament pros. During the day during the week, there will be lots of daily regs. Some are terrible but some are good, and sometimes there are too many good players. Play evenings, nights, and weekends for best results. But the real secret is tilt. Tilting players at 1-2 lose so many more bb's than at any other stake. And there are so many forms of tilt. For some players the stake itself is tilting and they give away money because they want to be playing bigger. Make sure you don't tilt, watch tilting patterns of regs, and deviate and exploit against any tilting player. 1-2 isn't about perfect poker. It is a contest of keeping your cool. And regarding this hand, seeing a loose player get scared with strong value is very common. They remember that one time the lost with a big hand. They are less scared with medium strength hands because they'll lose less if they are no good. It doesn't make sense to you, it does to them.
So I’m in the exact same boat… my bankroll has shrunk to 4K…. I
Our home casino does not have a 1/3 only 1/2 $7 rake … Bart, or someone else, can you elaborate a little on playing short on a 2/5 1k max game …. You said it’s all pre-flop? What do you mean?? Thank you … I was a CLP Sub last year and massive fan BTW
They both have valid points. A 1-2 game is horrible with rake taken into account. It's possible to turn a profit if you're the type of player who is well adjusted for casuals and random gamblers stumbling into poker but you have to be mindful...
My one tip in that scenario would be to realize the pot typically needs to be 20$ to get raked. Imagine you are opening small to something like 7-8 dollars. One random caller at 8 plus 3 from blinds puts the pot at 19 bucks. If they fold to your c bet there is 0 rake. You're welcome in advance. Also this opens the door for some polarized pot sized flop bets allowing you to exploit a greater knowledge of poker strategy against less prepared opponents.
It's funny all the pros say stay away from these games, unless you are playing like 10% of hands preflop.... that's a lot better than moving up to 3-5 and playing above your babkroll. 5-10 an hour for a hobby is pretty decent... and maybe 15 20 at 10% vpip... seems reasonable to build a bankroll
I've been having this Phugoid effect playing online for 10 years where I win many games in succession (low stakes cash, sit-n-go's, and heads up) for days on end, and then a sudden, unexplainable crash occurs wherein I give back all my profits and then some. After a decade, I still can't figure it out.
Same here...variance....cards are going to break both ways over time
You're not a winning player
@JesseKinnamon No, I'm not, and I can't figure it out after all these years.
Your speaking my language.
take notes on hands, then your leaks will be obvious. my guess you pay off on river way too often
Thx Bart. I’ve been playing private games in NYC over the past few years and am trying to filter out the games with the highest rake or time charge.
Unfortunately there are quite a few games in Manhattan and even outer boroughs with 10% uncapped rake I will never play, and some with $50 rake cap that I prefer not to play.
Basically you can play a big rake only if there are some *VERY BIG AND AWFUL WHALES* at the game, and otherwise not.
I recently tried out a 1/3 game with $7 per half-hour = ~5BB per hour. They are supposed to have a 2/5 with $10/half hour = 4BB per hour which isn’t that awful if you are not facing tough players.
10% uncapped is the very worst rake you'll find on any cruise ship, where you have the advantage that half the people barely know the rank of hands, and you wake up at a different island every day with free food lol.
1/3 for $14/hour is totally beatable even against pretty decent players. That's within $1 or $2/hour of how much rake you'd pay pre-pandemic at a pretty lightly raked 1/2 or 1/3 game, even a $4max + $1 promo game. Whether you'd make more at 2/5 losing $20/hour to rake, versus at 1/3 losing $14/hour to rake, depends upon how good you are and how good the other player are. But I'd say winning at the 1/3 is more of a sure thing for any player debating it in their head.
@Kineahora Paying for time is far cheaper. Consider this: if you stack a villain who's won several raked pots already that session, you're now effectively paying all the rake they paid up to that point. Additionally, if the villain had already stacked off someone else, then you're paying the entire rake for that other stack too, and ditto for every additional stack the villain you're stacking had previously stacked. In theory, a winning player who breaks the table winds up paying all the rake. It would be cheaper to hire private security and host a non raked game yourself than pay rake.
live games here have terrible rake structures for small games. 1-2 is capped at 7bb per pot and expect you to tip the dealers, which is plain robbery. have to stay online sadly :(
are u talking abt bowery lmao they take half hour time rake and they take rake for the high hand which they skimp on so the rake they take is actually massive
@@ericzhang6063 yes, that game.
They take a drop for the bad beat I found out-which was not advertised! How much is it actually?
Time charge is not rake-don’t call it that. And drops for promotions are not rake either, but they do come out so if you know how much they are it would be helpful for me to know.
Why are you even betting the turn here? If he's such a nitty player post flop, then you're not getting called by worse when you fire a second barrel on the turn (and certainly not when you fire a third barrel on the river).
If you're very nitty preflop, and he's very nitty postflop, then you need to realize that you're probably losing when he calls your flop bet with two players behind.
What if SB folds and the other Blinds check it down? Does the pot get to zero? Do they owe money to the pot?
Against this player type, who is too afraid to raise post-flop unless he has the stone nuts, the exploit is super obvious. You exercise complete control over the size of the pot because he never raises you. And if he does raise you, you can fold everything. C-bet a ton if you're heads up with him as he sounds competely "fit or fold," but don't multi-street bluff because his calling range is basically uncapped. Oh, and definitely bet big pre-flop.
Preach Bart. You are speaking the truth.
As an exploit use "larger sizes for value and smaller for a bluff" Piggy backing off of that, I've noticed in live poker a lot of players bet more when they bluff and size down when betting for value.
I'd be curious if the same were true of the 1-2 game in Texas Card house. Is it beatable? Is it just better to low buy 2-5 there? (If anyone is familiar with it). I've been struggling with getting out of 1-2 for years. Just bad beat after bad beat after long winning sessions. I have 2-5 playing friends who do well, come down to play with me at 1-2 and also get smashed. So I think there's some truth to this.
yes texas games with decent rake (10-12$/hr usually) are beatable for around 20 and hour i would guess. Like bart said the insane hi rake is the single biggest factor at these stakes. if rake is reasonable games are beatable even if opponents are 'tough' for a 1/2 game. Though if they are playing 1/2 with any regularity they are most likely not very good lol
Could you do a videos explaining the difficulty of being a break-even player
When you are a break even player and they increase the rake...
122 or 223 can be beatable. Friday nights are great. It all depends on how bad the players are at the table. If there are 4 or more tables running 122 and only one running 235 then I wouldnt recommend moving up. It all depends though on the players at the table.
how do u feel about no rake and just a 20$ door fee for 14 hours of play in a 1-2 game 40-400? the poker dream is live and well in Portland Oregon.....the dealers work for tips. im probably saving 30k a year in rake at 30 hrs a week min....Big love from a big fan in Pdx Oregon
What/where is that room?
Seems like if you play long sessions than the math is in your favor. No hourly fee, right?
@@3th0s Curious about this too
@@CrushlivePoker yeah..just 20$daily fee....
@@3th0s in Portland OREGON. The Final Table ,Portland Meadows, and the Game are my top choices...
im 19 and play daily at 1/2 and 1/1 i buy in with 150 for 1/1 and 450 for 1/2. I think 1/2 is very profitble if u play it like a 2/5 game and loosen the table up. Bigger raises bigger bets etc. Ive made 300-700 a night playing 1/1 and 1/2 its very possible
Youre just on an upswing.
how about the 1/2/3 game with 6 post flop rake, and 1 no flop rake?
That’s oaks . They also got 200$ 24/7 high hands every hour , and some medium and small jackpots
Other than Barts comments on why this game is profitless, this entire video was a painful experience.
Here's a good question given what was said about playing against the rake? What do you recommend then for someone who lives in an idiotic state that has a $100 bet cap and only offers $2-100 spread limit and limit games with a 10% rake to $5 and a $2 jackpot drop? My state also does not allow online poker, even Club GG is illegal. There's no middle ground for players without $$$. There's the 2-100, and 3/6 kill (limit); and then it's 8/16 kill and up. So unless you have at bare minimum $1000, you're stuck in games where the rake isn't beatable.
What state?
@@ligafftheindifferent3495 MN
In my casino game in Toronto Canada rake is insane but there are no real other options. Its 10% up to 20$ with 300$ max buy in and 2/5 game have the same rake but i don't have the bankroll for 2/5 . Can i build up my roll in this 1/3 game ,players are terrible tho but im not sure if thats enough of reason to continue playing 1/3 in this rake structure? Also is this rake too high even for 2/5 game?
That's even worse than here in NZ (10% up to 15$ no flop no drop)
Unfortunately Bart the rakes around here are getting really bad. I play at Twin River in Lincoln RI. I play 2/5 with 10% $8 cap which isn't great but not terrible. No promos, but lots of action usually.
The 1/2 however is also 10% up to $8. I don't want to deal with $60 stack shenanigans, but I hear the game is soft so idk.
What about rake for online nl50? How bad is that? Approximately?
$3/$4 depending on site, 5% is much better. Also, 20%+ rakeback.
The issue with players like this, at least in LA and the desert, *Morongo and Agua) is that they almost always also slow play their monsters and nut hands. So, your title is correct. You get 3-4 of these guys at the table, also playing short, also don't need the money, and the game can not be beat. Thanks!
the low stakes is called no fold'em hold'em for a dang good reason lol
I’m in a similar situation as the caller where I’m playing 1/3 but it is insanely boring because I just sit and wait for premium hands and value bet relentlessly with hardly any bluffs. I think it’s profitable even with the rake (hard to know for sure with my small sample size), but I feel I’m making no progress in learning the finer complexities of the game by playing face up ABC poker.
I’ve played a lot online and feel my game is certainly ready for 2/5, but I’m not bankrolled for $1k buy-ins. Bart says at the beginning to just buy-in for less. I suppose I’ll try that. Anyone have experience doing that?
My main concern is if the table is frequently straddling (my casino allows 5x straddles from UTG or BN!!!) I’ll just be playing extremely short stacked the whole time. Even if they only straddle $10 I’m suddenly down to 50 BBs if I’m in for $500. I have done a decent amount of tournament studying for short stacks, but I’m definitely more adept at 100 BB+ strategies.
It's imperative that you have the proper buy in, with 2 bullets behind, if you're sitting at any table, let alone moving up stakes for the first time. If you sit down with 500, like you said, you're putting undue pressure on yourself from the start. Too many negative variables . Stay at 1/3.
@@apocalypsepromotions7676 thanks for the reply.
I would have two bullets behind me if I sit down with $500. I already do that at 1/3 where $500 is the max buy-in.
So I’m bankrolled for $500 buy-ins (20 buy-ins -> $10k). The problem is I’m not bankrolled for $1k buy-ins.
@@blakefredrickson6506 I understand that, but I ran out of room while I was going off on a tangent, I'm sorry.
There is a level of comfort having 3 total bullets at your disposal, especially if you're taking a shot, even more so. I would continue to kill them at 1/3 until you have what you need to sit tall at 2/5. It's a mental game, and you want reassurance and confidence on your side when you take your shot.
@@apocalypsepromotions7676 got it. Appreciate the advice.
i mean like you said- in games with this structure or when you're really short bc of lots of straddles etc it's just about waiting for good hands and super boring.
I play a $1-$2 match the stack is that any different with up to $5 rake I think maybe six???
That can be a super profitable game, especially if you play it somewhere with a lot of drunk tourists. My favorite place to play it is Harrah's New Orleans. Such an easy game that even the profitable local pros are not very skilled players, because they don't have to be. It doesn't even matter if a lot of their "Hey Dave, are you on a flush draw again?" table talk is genuine collusion (the answer doesn't matter or isn't even given, the questions themselves are the signals) tolerated by the casino. Just play the part of a drunk tourist, appear to give more action that you're actually giving, and take all the money they've spent all day gathering up from tourists, when you smash a flop and they hit TPTK or better.
MGM Las Vegas is now 1/2 uncapped
Players at 1/2 and 1/3 are so bad at navigating 3bet pots idk how you can say these games are hardly beatable.
I sympathize with the caller. I was at a $1/$2 game rivered a weak straight and led out for 1/3 pot bet. Villain old man coffee type tanked for the LONGEST time and said "Well if you have the nuts you have it" and called with the 2nd nuts (2nd highest straight). I just looked and him and he said "wel I was pretty sure I was calling but man I was SO sure you'd turn over Q J". I said "that's a BRAVE call sir, can't believe you called me that light you are a maniac".
I played a HU match with my entire bankroll, now im broke and forced to play small stakes again
I have to disagree here with value betting if you think he has a worse queen..or you are scared about AQ, then you should be happy on the river with check check. People gotta understand how many queen holdings that are not KQ beat you! That is 5. AQ, QJ, Q6, Q2, Q7 and KQ is a chop. Thats 5 of 12 combos that beat you so you lose 42% of the time. Be happy with check check..
I don't understand these comments. Small stakes poker players are reckless. I play fewer hands and I bluff way less but I get paid off far more. You will face bad beats but most of the time your hands hold up. Rake doesn't matter since I'm not in most hands. I don't get raked that often and there's an endless stream of players replacing the ones who bust. I literally watch the game and wait for hands in position. I'm not playing to mix it up I'm playing to win money.
exactly this. i call it the fancy play syndrome. you cant play like the pros on tv and expect to profit in a low stakes game...
OMC played fine he just let you hang out to dry.... since you mentioned you'd bet/fold, he might feel he's only get called by better hand like a set of 6s.
that means he plays way too tight over all so he isn't playing fine.
If you’re trying to really make gains, play 5-5 or 5-10. 1-2 n 1-3 is a priced in game. More than often people will be going all in with shit.
Caller, based on the backstory of a limping AQ nit OMC, why did u call this hand in for review? No review needed! Lol. Once he called ur turn bet, u lost.
Yeah once he said the guy folded JJ face up on a 9 high board I’m not even sure I’d be betting the turn.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj Then how did villain backdoor the 2nd nut flush? Perhaps he prefers drawing hands. Perhaps it's just the bet amount that scares vilIain. Maybe he gets scared when the bets get larger than $100. If he's calling that wide preflop, I'm betting 3 streets.
@@AT-bw4cm maybe he had KcQc on a board of Kx7x3c and the turn and river were clubs?
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj Probably. This is the most profitable type to play against at low stakes (call wide pre and overfold post.)
Is a 10$ hourly seat charge beatable in Texas? 1/3 games can get crazy deep too
for sure if it plays big 100%
Yes, they are incredibly beatable. I play $1/2 and pay $12/hr and still profit $40/hr in the games after paying all fees and tips. Texas $1/2 plays closer to a Vegas $3/5 game but with shallower stacks.
very beatable especially with how those people play.
The 2/5 game at Lucky Chances is tough
I had to stop playing my local casino because the 1-3 game N/L because it became highest stack you can match on buy in. The table would end up with 2 and 3 K stacks. If you buy in short then you get run over every hand. Limit poker is a waste of time.
If you don't value-own yourself sometimes on the river, you are not betting it enough. I agree with Bart, bet half the pot. You have to ask yourself what you would bet in that spot if you had a set, or a busted straight draw ? These low stakes are my bread and butter, don't think balance is not important. If you make small bets to get a call, people will pick up on that. If your bigger river bets aren't getting called enough, then bluff more. As for rake considerations, they are valid, but if you really outclass your opposition you can crush the game. Last year I played over 2,000 hours at my local 1-3, with a $7 drop and beat it for 15BB per hr.
Didn't you listen to caller talking about how this villain plays?
Many of the lower stake live games(1/2,1/3) play how they describe early in this video.
Is he saying games like 1/3 are unbeatable or is this some special one? I have been playing 1/3 with 6 dollar rake and 1 dollar for high hand and bad beat promo. 100-500 buy in. Is he refering to a game like that also as unbeatable?
So you are saying 1/2 no limit isn’t beatable I don’t get how it’s different from the other games that have better players
Because the rake eats up your winrate.
i dont think he should be betting the turn here. hes essentially barreling in a multiway pot praying someone doesn't have two pair (imo a set would check raise), and only betting 1/4 pot on turn shows weakness. either shove river or check
Great show Bart. $2/2 is flushing cash down terlot. I play about 10% of hands in the $5/$5 at HP. TAG. Buy in for $300, low variance but no prob getting it in. 10% Boring? Only if "your hand" is really important to you. Me, I like to observe, and I hate to make neg EV decisions no matter how boring. I'm patient, hate out of position. So few hands it is. 15 yrs consistent winner. PS. I mix it up when I get deep, but the table often still sees me in a way I can exploit. PPS. Use to live in SF and play LC all the time. Def better food than HP 🙂
How many hours do you play a week? & roughly, about how much would you say you profit on a yearly basis?
@@sareykim Online about 10 hr a week. Just PLO8 and NLHE tourneys. Live cash about 25 hr a week always $5/$5. Live tourney maybe 3x a year if deep field min $350 buy in. Profit? Rather not say.
@@ToneGuruLA - thanks for the insight. profit is profit. & consistently profiting for over 1 1/2 decades is awesome to hear
@@sareykim Thank you. Hope the cards fall in your favor. If you're ever in LA, stop by Hollywood Park, great action n fun players. Ask for Jeff, all the regs and crew know me. It would be great to meet you and play some pokey 🙂
1-2 with a high rake is beatable but you need solid fundamentals. Small pot with a small hand big pot with nutted hands.
So, bet small when you have a weak hand and bet a lot when you have a monster. I thought that was the gist already
No way he plays only 10% of hands if he is opening MP here with KQo and 2 limpers
I think you could definitely develop a 10% VPIP strategy that includes raising KQo over limpers from the CO.
Broadway offsuits become more profitable than lower suited cards in these kinds of games because semi-bluffing draws becomes nearly impossible when four calling stations see the flop. Hitting top pair is huge because these guys will call way too much with middle and bottom pairs, and they’ll often call three streets with top pair bad kicker.
Could be playing closer to 15% of hands. Open limping around 7% limping A9s-A2s, and 22-77 for pockets + KQo AJo.
That would leave raising T9ss+ 88+, All suited double broadways, AQo+, which is about a ~8% open range.
I disagree. There's plenty of bad players that play the same ranges regardless of position or action.
Reported.
is cut off rlly MP? Isnt EP UTG through +2, MP is HJ/LJ, LP is CO/BTN and then the blinds?
in my casino there is no rake but at the door is like a subscription its 20 dollar a day or 30 dollars a month obviously everyone gets the 30 dollar one month sub and with that u can play any stake game and there is no rake at all i never knew what a rake was untill people started talking about it
Same applies to micro poker online .
Everybody, even in small towns should be able to find a pool of players that will play in home games for no rake or small change to pay for food and whatever…. If not then you don’t play somewhere with a local casino anyway and should move
Also you can play mixed games, if you don’t play mixed games you are never gonna be that good… only those who disagree are those that don’t play them, and people are even worse in games that are not hold em. You’re just passing up money if you only play hold em
My home casino runs a 1/2 game $100 max buy in with a 7dollar drop.
Welcome to California? In the east, 1/2 usually has $300 max buyin. In CA, I had to play 2/3 (Bike), 3/5 (Hollywood Park), or 5/5 (Commerce) to get action/pots the size you get at 1/2 in the east. Of those, in 2018, I liked the game, players, environment, dealers, food, and comps at the Bike 2/3 the best. Almost a classy experience with nice people, unlike all the other CA games I tried.
The 112 at LC is full of retirees who play bingo with their SSI checks. The 3/5 there is decent on Friday/Sat nights when the drunk crowd comes in. 5/10 is purer. Poker in general in the bay area is terrible because of the retirees.
Caller sounds confused … he said he can have aq then says I think he would have q5 … range is so lost wtf lol
this scenario plays out very often in small stakes with scared nit players as well as call machines.
Another common scenario is players calling all-in's with top pair / shit kicker.
Easy exploit, rake doesn't matter if you have noobs dumping money
Shocker San Francisco has the worst structure imaginable
At this rake structure if you are reasonably active you with pay your entire $300 stack in rake/tips in a ten hour sesh. Barts rationale to go all in because any Q will call for stacks is way, way, way off. Florida is $6+$2 now and while not as bad as flat $7 1/2 nl is not worth anybody time.
Even with a good rake $1/$2 just sucks. Players never give action are SO value heavy. One time I raised this woman with Aces, she flatted. Flop came low cards like 3,7, 8 rainbow. I bet she raised! Since I was tilting I couldn't accept that she obviously had a set and decided to min raise her. She tank folded and actually showed mid set. She said "You had top set didn't you?".
While that hand worked out usually you are just NEVER winning big pots. If there's any sizeable pot you're behind unless you happen to have the nuts. You have to play so carefully. Winning is a drip,drip,drip process and the best way to make money is wait for value and play absolutely obvious ABC poker. Boring as hell.
Sometimes you have to open preflop at 10bb and 2-3 people will still call you...these games are weird especially when it's capped at $200.
he's talking facts the style is so boring on 1/2
4:10 what does it mean to “kill it”
its basically a winners straddle.
@@ryandrest2056 what does it mean to have a winner’s straddle?
@@SethCorbinMusic winner of previous hand puts in a 3rd blind equivalent to 2x the normal big blind
@@SethCorbinMusic also called a "rock"
@@ryandrest2056 whoa. That is like a punishment for winning the previous hand
This has got to be one of the strangest set ups I've ever heard of.
Why do they not just make it 2-5? If the blinds are 2-2 with what's basically a 1 dollar BTN ante but it's 5 to limp ... with a rake of 7... just make it 2-5.. like wth is this? Lol probably have to raise the cap ig or just make it 1-2..
Casinos are typically subject to local or state ordinances, possibly the source of absurd buy-in and blind structures like this.
To make it even better…. The 1/2/2 at Lucky Chances only allowed $1 chips up until a few years ago!!
@@xxxYYZxxx nah california has goofy structures with low max buy ins and high rake. ideally they'd have an entire room full of only this game.
1-2 cash can be profitable but not for most players even smart players will lose . you have to be willing to use more game selection and be able to take more bad beats . Also there's a different social dynamic at small stakes poker tables . People come to play 1-2 to have fun and play bad entertainment style poker . If you come to grind out ABC poker at 1-2 you are gonna want to drill your eyeballs out with a power fork .
people playing for entertainment is what makes it possible to crush. if ABC poker is the most profitable strategy at a table, then ur going to get crushed by the rake
as opposed to what, playing heads up single raised or 3b pots all night at higher stakes? give me the low hanging fruit please
Yes, the game is beatable ... I've made several K the last couple years playing specifically 1-2-2 at Lucky Chances. AND Bart is correct that a win rate is something like $5 - $10 per hour.
@@ansonburlingame1899 i don’t consider a winning profit of minimum wage to be satisfactory
@@SethCorbinMusic min wage is about 16 an hour before taxes .
I'm lucky enough to play a $1-2 game where there's no rake, just a $20 seat fee for the whole day.
So preflop: weird structure 3 blinds and limps must be $5 at 1/2 hmm pot size over 2 limps and 3-blind structure should be 25. I like it.
You flop top and 2nd kicker, rainbow, QJ flop definitely has some draws. So I wanna bet preflop, 4-ways, I think $30 shld be fine… im never betting 60% pot with 4-way action. Never. I use 30% sizing for vulnerable top pairs (including ones that are high but there are flush or straight draws), nutted hands, big draws, and crappy draws. Medium draws, marginal hands, and non-vulnerable top pairs (like KQ on a K73 rainbow flop) I will check.
The problem when you bet the flop big and bet the turn, with no flush draws out there, when you get called on the river you are probably beat. And if this is the guy who is folding JJ overpair on the flop, then when you get called on the river he has AQ+ and I would say AQ and QJ are most likely. So im gonna check back the river here.
[edit-I knew it. QJ]
I don’t think this qualifies as a low stakes game. A 1-2 with $7-8 opens is low stakes. This is a $5 bring in and $25 pre is getting 4 way action. This plays WAY bigger than 2-5 at the Bellagio.
$7 RAKE!!!!!!!! Geez. I play in Portland, OR, and all the up and up games are $20 day fee, then we have house games were you just tip--no fee no rake.
i dont understand, i play a 1-3 game with $15 rake cap and my winrate after 190 hours is 55BBs / 100 hands. I think im just in the softest game on the planet
190 hours is almost irrelevant. too small of sample. Would suggest looking up a video about variance in poker. Almost everyone underestimates how long it takes to get to long term. Even good winning pros will at some point have losing/break even streches of 300-400 hours if they play long enough. And conversely ive seen a couple of super whales go on massive heaters for a few months only to loose it all back in the end.
low stakes.. can equal high risk.... cuz players also dont have a lot to lose.. and simply ignore real "poker"...
Sounds like a great game. No promo people ever showing up because there aren't promos. Awful play.
Oh no. Lucky chances in Colma. 1-2-2, sheesh, been there before
Yeah given back story makes the river bet bad and possibly makes the turn bet break even at best. Guy is scared to call with what should be treated as the nuts lmao
Bart how come you never take calls on any limit hold em hands? I think it would be interesting to hear one every now and then
What stakes are you playing?
@@frankb9989 I play live 6 12 w/ a three blind structure and sometimes 15 30. I also play any “play money” game that is running just because I love the game and its good practice.
@@brandonliedtke7626 is that holdem or plo8? I miss playing limit. You must be in Vegas? The only limit games here in Florida are straight 2 or 2-4 I think. I used to play 10-20 limit back in 05, 06. This was in the Chicago area.
ez check river against opponent as descrived
7$ thats the dream. I live in Montreal and at Playground poker it's actually 10% max 10$ a hand +2$ into the bad beat so we are latking 12$ a hand for the 1-2 takes buy-In (250$ max) and the 2-5 Stakes is 5% MAx 16$ +2$ bad beat max buy_in (800$). Casino of montreal is like a tiny bit less. That's all we got !
I play on a practice site $10\20. $20,000 cap. And people go all in with garbage, they'll be 6 or 7 people in every hand,everyone all in, i just buy in for a grand and pick my spots .
pretty sure these high rake games are still beatable bc they are filled with stack off monkeys. can anyone offer their opinions or math
The 1/2 at lucky chances is practically impossible to beat long term. Max buy in was $200 (when I played there a few years ago 1k hours). The rake took about ~$200-300 off the table / hour. It was very rare for anyone to even have a $200 stack after a few hours of playing! Everyone ended up short stacked. 1/2 becomes extremely profitable the deeper you get
Maybe this is ironic, but I actually play better against better players and with more money at stake. I feel like my opponents more often make moves that make sense, and this helps my reads. So I stick to 2/5 and 5/10 occasionally.
Sometimes though I will play 1/2 while waiting for a seat, and I do pretty well, since I change up my playstyle completely. I guess because of the smaller stake, I would play way more than 10% of my hands, and have no issue bluffing against a clearly tight player, or raising or calling with weird hands. This makes me a very annoying opponent, since I can very well be in a 3 way all in pot with suited connectors, and crack aces and kings
Nit of all nits
wow that guy is scared first off if everyone limped and you made it 25 6-6 are out of your raising hands there's a small chance you have queens and jacks but a very small chance and its only because he's holding a q-j so yeah the odds are really low of you holding those hands at the end of the hand im amazed he just doesnt shove you all in chances are you call. But for the guy too play that scared is a huge mistake.
I get that the players are bad but at some point on boards like this what are you getting called by thats worse? If the players are scared they are not playing connectors, so you are going to get called by better non nutted hands. I mean thinking that the guy is playing Q5 suited is a bit of a stretch.
Rake would be the only reason to not play
And also because I own low stakes. Literally the best in San diego
I know a player like this who will play trash hands like they're the nuts but fold the best hand to any bet.
Opponents are playing this badly and you can't beat the game?? Also, the limp is $5, so this is close to a 2/5 game.
Thru 100 hours I made $20/hour in that exact game at LC
100 hours is irrelevant... way to small a sample size. 500 start to mean something but even then can be off in either direction.
Why you SHOULD play small stakes games in Texas 🤫
The big stacks makes these games win-able. Now if everyone has 2/300. He's completely right.
I've put my reps in from online playing. So I play 5/5 or 2/5. I never even played 1/2 live. I went straight to higher stakes and I Cash usually 70 percent of the time baring a bad beat, or if I get too drunk and play bad and I beat myself.
Wtf kind of game is this
I used to buy-in for $200 in the 2/5 game and run it up to $1,000 all the time. Way better than getting raked to death in a 1/2 game
loool the caller has PTSD from that player
i think he should just stop engaging in big pots with him, unlikely you'll ever get paid by him and if he's in the hand with you you're probably losing
You will do $20 hour the most if you are a world class player. You can work at a fast food job and make more.