This scenario is so extreme that a check back on river actually makes sense. Watch at 14:48 for why and what the exception would be. Would you ever consider checking this back in game?
Yeah the sb will have 66, 99, K9 and some other Kx. You’re beating one hand and chopping with every other hand the V would play the flop and turn this way. There’s not much point in betting because you don’t get called by worse except a stubborn 99. When V check raises the river he always has K9 and 66.
I check this back every time and don't lose a wink of sleep. To bet, you'd have to hope that SB plays this way with 99 or 96 and then makes the weird call - just doesn't happen enough. Even when considering villain's c/r, how often is someone doing this with KJ/KT/KQ for value...villain is almost certainly just calling with those hands. Not to say a c/r bluff wouldn't be extremely ballsy, because a c/r here looks so strong. Hero likely doesn't have K9ss, but could have 66.
Okay so hero says, if villain leads river he was going to shove/raise and you say no because a king is never folding. Villain checks, hero bets, villain shoves and now you are saying it's not a great call. So hero's original statement of raising if villain led would have been correct. I feel like you flip flopped here, maybe I am missing something?
@@mlpokercrews7491 Tremendous difference between a raise and a check/raise in how it represents strength. As well, hero really only has two combos that beat Kx (K9ss and 66 - and even K9ss is a stretch to overlimp pf)...villain could have all three K9 combos and 66.
"I limp, which I don't normally do" Translation: "I do this all the time but I'm worried Barr will light me up about it" My take: it is fine to just explain what you did and why you did it. If you knew everything about poker, you wouldn't be calling in. If I knew everything, I wouldn't be watching.
Its amazing how much you can understand hand analysis by looking at extreme hands like this one. Now i need to think about way less obvious situations where the same logic applies. Because if you find proper folds in these spots you are saving a lot of blinds.
@@cowllama123 ture though but if someone has 67s IP - someone bets the pot and ur last to act u might call the flop... and be tempted on the river- i agree overall with ur sentiment though
Yeah that's why regs win money vs inexperienced players. They will constantly put u in spots like this and as an inexperienced player you will always pay off the regs. Only less than 10% of players are able to make this laydown. The other 90% probably snap call the allin. You hear the table chat in the video tell him there's no way he can fold a K there. Bc those guys are all 🐟
Folding that spot is wrong long term. Quads or k9 you win my money. The villan had a Kx spades . The over explanation of wishing someone else in a hand is bs. Also knowing he was losing all night tells me he had a weak K. K9 on the flop bets huge to charge draws. Next hand lol
@kingdurkalerpa1044 how can they always put you in spots like this, if hands like this are extremely rare. Especially with the action. Lol. When you play cash 40+hrs l a week for 8 years....u never fold that spot because the guy is a loser and you have the 3rd nuts. Losers play bad lol .
These 2 pair boards happen all the time.... on the river you can bet small or check. Most people will bet and some bet big. The issue is that you're now face-up [if you bet]. In this hand, if he bets $100 and gets raised, he'll never know if the opponent just has a K which he deems to be the nuts or he played K9/66 like a boss. I don't think I've ever seen a check raise river bluff on a doubled paired board.
Yeah, well, the caller did this to himself by limping preflop. After that, I agree with Bart's analysis and sizing recommendations 100%, but the river check-raise didn't have to be discussed this lengthy, imo. :D Insta-muck as played and for this prize. If he bluffed you there: 1) Kudos to him, hell of a play, worthy of Ivey or Dwan. 2) You did this to yourself by not checking back the river (and limping preflop), so just brush it off and don't make the same mistakes next time. :)
I think it is a much closer to call then you present. There are 4 combos that beat us K9o and 66. We need 12 combo to get 3:1. There are 4 Kj, 4 Kt and 3 Kq which are 11, if he calls Kq pre and not raise which is possible. However we cannot assume that he always calls K9 and KT off, and in this case there are 2 combos that beat us to 8 that we beat
@@natimerfish1782 Why would KJ etc. check raise river, could be beat by K9. Why would KJ or KT bet pot on flop and lead turn into multiple opponents? It's possible but I would heavily discount the combos
Very sound logic troughout the whole hand as alway Bart 👌 Another conclusion we could make if we flip the coin and play from villains spot we should always checkjam river if we have Kx also (not just K9 and 66) since we allow MP to bluff combodraw and we are freerolling Kx that we could make fold a chop, MP would never have 66 or K9 as played so we take a freeroll bluff any day imo, any input? @crushlivepoker
I think the villains river play is a good exploit against the majority of live population who couldn’t ever fold a K. The V screwed up by not leading out on the river for at least half pot. In that scenario it’s harder for anyone to fold a K. Maybe even use a blocker size to make it look like a counterfeit 99 to get Kx to raise for value. Hell even an all in shove is better to target population who won’t ever fold a K, and will even put thinking players in a tough spot
I would say you shouldn’t ever fold a K if there is any chance your opponent is value betting the same hand, a worse hand, or is bluffing. If the opponent continued betting on the river, even for half pot or more, then it can easily be just Kx, a stubborn 99 that has to bluff, or any other hand that making a last ditch effort to bluff hoping you don’t have a K. Here you just have to call and take your lumps the rare times you lose. But when he check jams like this, the worst he can have his a chop, but often he just has K9 or 66 and is counting on you having a K that can’t and won’t fold.
Smaller lead bet on the turn feels either very strong or very safe. Strong being K9 or 99. Safe being KJ or K10 worried about an opponent K with better kicker. River makes 66 quite unlikely. Obviously not impossible. 100% it's a check back. If I was forced to put the opponent on just one hand, my guess would be K9.
Its really good play from hero, before he made that bet on a river I thought about how big could be that bet to fold on villain jam painless, and 200 is perfect, and than he found the fold button, impressive, gj!)
Considering the villain was calling $7 to a $55 pot pre, I would give him more than just KJo/KTo for hands we chop with. Specifically all the Kx spades hands, like K8s, K7s, K5s, K4s, K3s and K2s. Which is another 6 combos on top of 4 combos of KJ and 4 combos of KT. So that's 14 combos we chop with, to 4 that beat us. I still think it is probably a fold given that the villain is unlikey to shove all 14 combos we chop with, but would shove all 4 that we beat, but it is close.
Hmmmm 9.5 you say. The pre-flop issue was discussed & that is pretty basic. On the flop; not sure folding was discussed enough. This surface level type thinking is what caused the hero to bet this river; which was idiotic. There is just no nice way to say it. Villains pot sized donk into 5 players is either a hand that has hero crushed or it is KX of spades. Hero is ahead of the latter, but he has $10 invested because of his pre-flop mistake! It's very difficult for hero to improve on turn also; villain often has a king & the queen of spades would be highly suspect here. The only clean turn improvers are Kd, Qd, Qh. Anyways....the big juicy for most people's thinking is river here. Here's a tip; betting a river is only a good idea as a bluff, which does not apply here, or when something that you beat can call. Bart's suggests 99. Yes that is possible, does not fit the turn sizing though & it's not a great calling hand on river. Is hero really going 40% with missed spades?? Get serious. Also, how much of villain range is 99 compared to KXss, K9, K6, 66? See the problem? Kings full seems great, but you need something to pay you off. It's really not that hard to figure out that hero is either chopping or losing almost 100% of the time here. Now then, if we make a mistake & bet river, should we call? How good a player is villain? Does he realize that hero would raise most of K9, K6, 99, 66 on either flop or turn? Or go bigger with those on river? If villain is a good hand reader; he should realize hero's best hand is KX here. I would NEVER have bet river here, but if I did I might call if I respected the villain.
I agree that was horrible bet sizing as well on that river. Also, I would consider I’m only getting called by another K (chop) or raised by better. Easy check back here on the river.
I wanted to ask why are combo flush + straight draws or even any other king especially k something of spades not in the opponents range. I do think it depends on opponent player type but some people might take this line with 78 of spades, 710 of spades, 57 of spades j10 of spades even things like k8,k7 of spades and stuff like that, like sure there flush missed but as played it is unlikely the hero as anything better than a k
These are the types of no brainer folds on the river, that if you don’t make them your chances of being a winning player versus live population is zero. Now, just check back bro if you get here. Also, 99 should be turned into a bluff here by villain in theory but like less than 0.1% of poker players are doing that correctly.
Yeah 3-5 players for the most part aren’t turning 9-9 into a bluff. There are some , but I dont think you would be losing money if you just completely ignored that small segment
@@gesus.christ99 well I did in the moment of watching the video.. but I do not have the balls of steel to pull it off unless I’m exploiting another pro
This one is very difficult. The turn down bet and the effect it had on the other 2 players that folded. We must assume those were the draws and they were likely thoughr they could be dead after the board paired. Neither k9 nor 66 would be seeking protection at that point and the turn lead and the reaction validates the flop lead. The pot lead on flop leans more towards k9 than 66 but not by much. K9 would seek protection while 66 might check raise for value. 99 would possibly take the same line as 66 in hoping to trap a king. The river check by the V is quite clever. He's gotta be pretty sure hero holds a king. The question I would ask is how does this six create a lead change based on everything that's happened. Does it? It's very likely we've been behind the whole way. Correct?
River check is only good if you are x/r bluffing 99, and even then it's probably just better to bet more than hero will bet when you have 66/K9 ... maybe x/r small so hero can't find the fold button. Hero didn't really think about checking back river and tanked but still found the fold.
There was a hand with that wealthy philanthropist from Vegas. I can't remember his name, but he's well known. Donates all his tournament winnings. Anyway, he pulled off a massive bluff in a situation just like this.
The reason to raise the turn is that this is most likely the last street to be able to get money in the pot, because the river is going to put a card that completes a flush or straight a very high percentage of the time. And our opponent is going to fear us making our draw so it will kill our action.
No. I got beaten with KQ having Kings over Queens losing to quad deuces. I lost SO MANY hands with full houses it's not even funny. And I only play live.
Would have checked after the SB checked the river. Chop or lose to K9 SB would likely raised preflop if he had pocket 9 or pocket 6. Since he bet a small/decent size after flop, sign that he got two pair with K9 and he afraid of flush and potential strait. He checked the rive to intentionally say he is weak and wants you to bet into it so he can raise.
Not raising if getting bet into on the river is such a nit play. You cant be scared of running into quads! If thats a possibility then its also possible of getting a chop to fold.
I haven't seen through the flop yet, but after choosing to limp pre, I'm probably just folding flop. It doesn't seem likely that every single opponent is on flush/straight draws or a worse king. And even if they are, this thing is going to be hell to navigate. You're not going to know what turns are good, bad, or if someone already has a set/flush that you're basically dead to. *Edit* Once we get to the turn it's brutal cuz now all his Kxs combos we're ahead of, I think I'm looking to get to showdown, hoping river goes x/x
Likely good, but I couldn't have folded when only K9 & 66 beat me. This seems pretty nitty, unless we trust the guy after his beats. I'm a bit puzzled why we don't expect to chop chop 75% tbh. Cheers.
KK, K9, 66 seemed unlikely for hero's line. That said, it still would have been a ballsy villain line with combo draws or just a single K. Especially in a limped pot. That stuff would put me in a blender. Great fold.
Putting in 1430 to get back 475. Gotta chop 75%. 4 combos we lose to. And no Bart, there are 4 combos of KJ, KT, each, and 3 combos of KQ. If he ever completes with smaller kings, especially suited, then that’s way more than the 12 combos needed to chop with.
I fold on the flop when sb leads for pot. I play to much online poker and it's usually always thick value when sb leads for pot into that many ppl on the flop. Especially since you only limped pre flop sb will realize a lot of his equity. Vs a reg this spot is always 2 pair plus, u can see that when he bets the turn too again into everyone is so nutted.
Just saying that in the villain shoes I’m mostly likely putting the hero on a K and if it’s likely to split I’m jamming. If I have K9 or 66 I’m making it an amount I think gets called
At least online those spots dont matter tbh... if u have kings full and run ointo quads there gg... you will stack ur opponent anyways if the situation gets reversed and youre the guy with quads... those are 0 EV spots minus rake
Would this be a good play by the villain with 99 as a bluff because he blocks K-9? What size should 99 take on this river if he's convinced that the hero has a king and he wants to bluff him off a king? Or should 99 not bluff here?
Don't bluff here! R: H is a calling station of the highest order. So, you cannot know whether he was going to call your bluff. This particularly that he bet river!! Watch out! (H said he did not call...really??).
For the same reason you can’t raise this board on the river if the villain bets is the same reason it’s a clear fold in the river if you get raised after betting. Clear as day. I haven’t even got to that point yet but I’m guessing what’s gonna happen.
Don’t understand bart even suggesting a thin value bet targeting 99. I know he didn’t advocate for that but even suggesting it makes little sense. No point targeting that specific hand when there’s an 80% chance that hand would fold anyway. You’re rarely getting called by worse so it’s an easy check back on river
One other factor would be if the small blind has KX, he himself has to worry about the hero having 66 or K9. For all the reasons you mentioned plus this consideration it seems like a no brainer fold and I haven't watched this to the end yet (I paused at 23:48 to type this), and could care less about the results. I would fold 100% of the time in this spot and if he shows me trey deuce off after I muck awesome
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj Serious question is hero supposed to raise flop with K9? It seems silly to ask but villain's action is so extreme it almost feels like hero doesn't have a raising range.
IMO? Given V's post-hand comments? H made a good fold... "Inelasticity" of H was what the V was referencing/depending upon... Was a K9-off complete out of SB pretty awful? Sure, but so is limping KQ off... *Way to shake off the hook of inelasticity.... IMO
I don't quite understand V's claim that he had the nuts. Didn't show 66 for the high hand bonus, and K9 is only 2nd nuts. So what nuts is he claiming but not explicitly saying?
So much mental masturbation about .0076% quads. I'm glad that I listened to this in the background while doing other stuff, and even watching other videos at the same time. Talk about monsters under the bed. That one time... 4 years ago... someone happened to have quads against Andy. Big woopdy doo. That one time in band camp, I stuck a flute...
Bart needs to get a medal for Nit of the year. Are you fricken kidding me? He's trying to push you off a chop and you're giving him credit for the ONE hand that beats you (f off with the quads). Villains probably had A6 and backed into it or just another K, AK whatever. Unbelievable.
No idea who taught them kill. Kill is either from scooping in split pot or a mandatory straddle, this can't be their terminology or who taught them this is wrong.
If it is a chop you are either going to win about $400 and if you fold you are going to lose about $400. That is an $800 usd swing. You are basically saying he has two distinct hands 66 or K9spades if you fold. So 2 out of 1326 hands right. So 0.14% of the time you are beat. I am going to say if you fold here maybe your opponent has picked up on the fact you overfold. I can think of plenty of times someone goes all-in to get someone off a chop. I mean why not, you only have to fold a small percentage of the time to make it worth it. I don't think you are beat enough times to fold here. And who says he is never bluffing. Look up worse fold in history and you will see a bunch of "smart" players making bad folds because you are assuming your opponent never makes a bad bet or bluffs. Poker these days seems like finding reasons to fold. Maybe it works in some games but not the ones I play in. I can't even watch tournament poker anymore. They take too damn long to find a reason to fold and 1/2 the time they are wrong anyways. I would rather call half the time and be incorrect then fold 1/2 the time and be incorrect.
Hero slow played his self into a looser when you throw a small bet on the river you set yourself up for a all in bluff put your ego in check and learn your opponent
I think Bart has seen too many bad beats. I would beat the villan in the pot. but I am a very small winner over many years of playing lower stakes usually 2-5 with no cap. ( I wrote this before I saw the reveal)
I had a very similar situation at Caesar’s Palace 1/3, the biggest pot I ever won at the time. Entire table limps, I complete 55 in the SB. Flop is J99, checks through. Turn 5, I lead for $20, all fold except BTN who raises to $65, I call. River 5, I lead for $50, he raises to $180, I jam for $3600 and he snaps with QJ.
This scenario is so extreme that a check back on river actually makes sense. Watch at 14:48 for why and what the exception would be. Would you ever consider checking this back in game?
Yeah the sb will have 66, 99, K9 and some other Kx. You’re beating one hand and chopping with every other hand the V would play the flop and turn this way. There’s not much point in betting because you don’t get called by worse except a stubborn 99. When V check raises the river he always has K9 and 66.
I check this back every time and don't lose a wink of sleep. To bet, you'd have to hope that SB plays this way with 99 or 96 and then makes the weird call - just doesn't happen enough. Even when considering villain's c/r, how often is someone doing this with KJ/KT/KQ for value...villain is almost certainly just calling with those hands. Not to say a c/r bluff wouldn't be extremely ballsy, because a c/r here looks so strong. Hero likely doesn't have K9ss, but could have 66.
Okay so hero says, if villain leads river he was going to shove/raise and you say no because a king is never folding. Villain checks, hero bets, villain shoves and now you are saying it's not a great call. So hero's original statement of raising if villain led would have been correct. I feel like you flip flopped here, maybe I am missing something?
I would check back every time. I put the villain on King - nine of hearts. That made sense on every street.
@@mlpokercrews7491 Tremendous difference between a raise and a check/raise in how it represents strength. As well, hero really only has two combos that beat Kx (K9ss and 66 - and even K9ss is a stretch to overlimp pf)...villain could have all three K9 combos and 66.
"I limp, which I don't normally do"
Translation: "I do this all the time but I'm worried Barr will light me up about it"
My take: it is fine to just explain what you did and why you did it. If you knew everything about poker, you wouldn't be calling in. If I knew everything, I wouldn't be watching.
Fold or raise pre. KQ off is a heap of shit multiway unless your trying to make the second best hand
If no one raises, then most likely no one has AK or AQ so if you hit a pair you are highly likely to have the best one pair hand.
@@sethshapiro5973 you will lose to sets and two pairs or monsterdraws. You are better of folding pre 👍
@@sethshapiro5973 Top pair top kicker isn't the risk - everything better than a pair is.
Its amazing how much you can understand hand analysis by looking at extreme hands like this one. Now i need to think about way less obvious situations where the same logic applies. Because if you find proper folds in these spots you are saving a lot of blinds.
i would check back river. you aint getting called by nothin, just gonna get raised and put in a miserable spot.
never ever check back with a king there... might get called by a 6
@@antonquirgst2812sb never has a naked 6 there. You need to get better at hand reading
@@kingdurkalerpa1044 for all i nkow opponeent can even have queens there and call you down... seen it before
@@antonquirgst2812 youre game must be SUPER loose if someone is getting to the river with 6x here, esp after leading POT into 6 people
@@cowllama123 ture though but if someone has 67s IP - someone bets the pot and ur last to act u might call the flop... and be tempted on the river- i agree overall with ur sentiment though
As a very sub par poker player after hearing the math breakdown… my brain hurts 😵
Yeah that's why regs win money vs inexperienced players. They will constantly put u in spots like this and as an inexperienced player you will always pay off the regs. Only less than 10% of players are able to make this laydown. The other 90% probably snap call the allin. You hear the table chat in the video tell him there's no way he can fold a K there. Bc those guys are all 🐟
Folding that spot is wrong long term. Quads or k9 you win my money. The villan had a Kx spades . The over explanation of wishing someone else in a hand is bs. Also knowing he was losing all night tells me he had a weak K. K9 on the flop bets huge to charge draws. Next hand lol
@kingdurkalerpa1044 how can they always put you in spots like this, if hands like this are extremely rare. Especially with the action. Lol. When you play cash 40+hrs l a week for 8 years....u never fold that spot because the guy is a loser and you have the 3rd nuts. Losers play bad lol .
I’m checking back 💯 of the time. I hate paying to at best chop.. btw I like your channel too
These 2 pair boards happen all the time.... on the river you can bet small or check. Most people will bet and some bet big. The issue is that you're now face-up [if you bet]. In this hand, if he bets $100 and gets raised, he'll never know if the opponent just has a K which he deems to be the nuts or he played K9/66 like a boss. I don't think I've ever seen a check raise river bluff on a doubled paired board.
2 pair hands happen all the time? If 1 in 20 hands making it to the river is all the time.
Yeah, well, the caller did this to himself by limping preflop. After that, I agree with Bart's analysis and sizing recommendations 100%, but the river check-raise didn't have to be discussed this lengthy, imo. :D Insta-muck as played and for this prize. If he bluffed you there: 1) Kudos to him, hell of a play, worthy of Ivey or Dwan. 2) You did this to yourself by not checking back the river (and limping preflop), so just brush it off and don't make the same mistakes next time. :)
Fantastic commentary
I think it is a much closer to call then you present. There are 4 combos that beat us K9o and 66. We need 12 combo to get 3:1. There are 4 Kj, 4 Kt and 3 Kq which are 11, if he calls Kq pre and not raise which is possible. However we cannot assume that he always calls K9 and KT off, and in this case there are 2 combos that beat us to 8 that we beat
We dont beat those. We chop with those
@@natimerfish1782
Why would KJ etc. check raise river, could be beat by K9. Why would KJ or KT bet pot on flop and lead turn into multiple opponents? It's possible but I would heavily discount the combos
Villain will shove K9 100% of the time but only attempt to raise us out of a chop
bart casually recalls a poker hand from 4 years ago that he wants even in
not only a great hand, also a great story. entertaining and educational
Very sound logic troughout the whole hand as alway Bart 👌
Another conclusion we could make if we flip the coin and play from villains spot we should always checkjam river if we have Kx also (not just K9 and 66) since we allow MP to bluff combodraw and we are freerolling Kx that we could make fold a chop, MP would never have 66 or K9 as played so we take a freeroll bluff any day imo, any input? @crushlivepoker
Great hand Ryan & Bart.. if this is only a 9.5 Bart then I’m looking fwd to viewing your 9.6-10 range of hand breakdowns man… WOW!!!
I think the villains river play is a good exploit against the majority of live population who couldn’t ever fold a K. The V screwed up by not leading out on the river for at least half pot. In that scenario it’s harder for anyone to fold a K. Maybe even use a blocker size to make it look like a counterfeit 99 to get Kx to raise for value. Hell even an all in shove is better to target population who won’t ever fold a K, and will even put thinking players in a tough spot
if youre folding a k there what the hell are u playing then? like when are you not folding against bets?
I would say you shouldn’t ever fold a K if there is any chance your opponent is value betting the same hand, a worse hand, or is bluffing. If the opponent continued betting on the river, even for half pot or more, then it can easily be just Kx, a stubborn 99 that has to bluff, or any other hand that making a last ditch effort to bluff hoping you don’t have a K. Here you just have to call and take your lumps the rare times you lose.
But when he check jams like this, the worst he can have his a chop, but often he just has K9 or 66 and is counting on you having a K that can’t and won’t fold.
I play here every week. Glad to see it make it on here 😁😁
Smaller lead bet on the turn feels either very strong or very safe.
Strong being K9 or 99.
Safe being KJ or K10 worried about an opponent K with better kicker.
River makes 66 quite unlikely. Obviously not impossible.
100% it's a check back. If I was forced to put the opponent on just one hand, my guess would be K9.
Its really good play from hero, before he made that bet on a river I thought about how big could be that bet to fold on villain jam painless, and 200 is perfect, and than he found the fold button, impressive, gj!)
Considering the villain was calling $7 to a $55 pot pre, I would give him more than just KJo/KTo for hands we chop with.
Specifically all the Kx spades hands, like K8s, K7s, K5s, K4s, K3s and K2s. Which is another 6 combos on top of 4 combos of KJ and 4 combos of KT.
So that's 14 combos we chop with, to 4 that beat us. I still think it is probably a fold given that the villain is unlikey to shove all 14 combos we chop with, but would shove all 4 that we beat, but it is close.
Hmmmm 9.5 you say. The pre-flop issue was discussed & that is pretty basic. On the flop; not sure folding was discussed enough. This surface level type thinking is what caused the hero to bet this river; which was idiotic. There is just no nice way to say it. Villains pot sized donk into 5 players is either a hand that has hero crushed or it is KX of spades. Hero is ahead of the latter, but he has $10 invested because of his pre-flop mistake! It's very difficult for hero to improve on turn also; villain often has a king & the queen of spades would be highly suspect here. The only clean turn improvers are Kd, Qd, Qh.
Anyways....the big juicy for most people's thinking is river here. Here's a tip; betting a river is only a good idea as a bluff, which does not apply here, or when something that you beat can call. Bart's suggests 99. Yes that is possible, does not fit the turn sizing though & it's not a great calling hand on river. Is hero really going 40% with missed spades?? Get serious. Also, how much of villain range is 99 compared to KXss, K9, K6, 66? See the problem? Kings full seems great, but you need something to pay you off. It's really not that hard to figure out that hero is either chopping or losing almost 100% of the time here.
Now then, if we make a mistake & bet river, should we call? How good a player is villain? Does he realize that hero would raise most of K9, K6, 99, 66 on either flop or turn? Or go bigger with those on river? If villain is a good hand reader; he should realize hero's best hand is KX here. I would NEVER have bet river here, but if I did I might call if I respected the villain.
I agree that was horrible bet sizing as well on that river. Also, I would consider I’m only getting called by another K (chop) or raised by better. Easy check back here on the river.
I wanted to ask why are combo flush + straight draws or even any other king especially k something of spades not in the opponents range.
I do think it depends on opponent player type but some people might take this line with 78 of spades, 710 of spades, 57 of spades j10 of spades even things like k8,k7 of spades and stuff like that, like sure there flush missed but as played it is unlikely the hero as anything better than a k
These are the types of no brainer folds on the river, that if you don’t make them your chances of being a winning player versus live population is zero. Now, just check back bro if you get here. Also, 99 should be turned into a bluff here by villain in theory but like less than 0.1% of poker players are doing that correctly.
Yeah 3-5 players for the most part aren’t turning 9-9 into a bluff. There are some , but I dont think you would be losing money if you just completely ignored that small segment
Some OWC ripped it into me with bottom boat last night. Poker is alive and well
Wow you’re brain dead ngl
In the entire world? Probably just Victor Malinowski and Linus Loeliger can find that bluff😂
@@gesus.christ99 well I did in the moment of watching the video.. but I do not have the balls of steel to pull it off unless I’m exploiting another pro
Against a WC player where I’m deep, I’d consider a check. If there’s any chance of getting called, I’m betting
Wow he limp call KQ in MP
Wrong start
this is the most interesting hand I've seen on this channel I just wish that there was a reveal
This one is very difficult. The turn down bet and the effect it had on the other 2 players that folded. We must assume those were the draws and they were likely thoughr they could be dead after the board paired. Neither k9 nor 66 would be seeking protection at that point and the turn lead and the reaction validates the flop lead.
The pot lead on flop leans more towards k9 than 66 but not by much. K9 would seek protection while 66 might check raise for value. 99 would possibly take the same line as 66 in hoping to trap a king.
The river check by the V is quite clever. He's gotta be pretty sure hero holds a king. The question I would ask is how does this six create a lead change based on everything that's happened.
Does it? It's very likely we've been behind the whole way. Correct?
River check is only good if you are x/r bluffing 99, and even then it's probably just better to bet more than hero will bet when you have 66/K9 ... maybe x/r small so hero can't find the fold button. Hero didn't really think about checking back river and tanked but still found the fold.
@@GeppettoFedora I can't disagree with that.
There was a hand with that wealthy philanthropist from Vegas. I can't remember his name, but he's well known. Donates all his tournament winnings. Anyway, he pulled off a massive bluff in a situation just like this.
The reason to raise the turn is that this is most likely the last street to be able to get money in the pot, because the river is going to put a card that completes a flush or straight a very high percentage of the time. And our opponent is going to fear us making our draw so it will kill our action.
No. I got beaten with KQ having Kings over Queens losing to quad deuces. I lost SO MANY hands with full houses it's not even funny. And I only play live.
Would have checked after the SB checked the river. Chop or lose to K9
SB would likely raised preflop if he had pocket 9 or pocket 6. Since he bet a small/decent size after flop, sign that he got two pair with K9 and he afraid of flush and potential strait. He checked the rive to intentionally say he is weak and wants you to bet into it so he can raise.
Lighting money on fire by checking
V is just playing so strong here on flop and turn. Definitely gotta fold after the check raise
Having 9-9 in SB and limping in to multi way pot is wild to me
Yea I think he had K9o
Not raising if getting bet into on the river is such a nit play. You cant be scared of running into quads! If thats a possibility then its also possible of getting a chop to fold.
So... just a mandatory winner straddle correct?
I haven't seen through the flop yet, but after choosing to limp pre, I'm probably just folding flop.
It doesn't seem likely that every single opponent is on flush/straight draws or a worse king. And even if they are, this thing is going to be hell to navigate. You're not going to know what turns are good, bad, or if someone already has a set/flush that you're basically dead to.
*Edit*
Once we get to the turn it's brutal cuz now all his Kxs combos we're ahead of, I think I'm looking to get to showdown, hoping river goes x/x
Likely good, but I couldn't have folded when only K9 & 66 beat me. This seems pretty nitty, unless we trust the guy after his beats. I'm a bit puzzled why we don't expect to chop chop 75% tbh. Cheers.
If the guy got stacked three times, and is on tilt, I think I make the call.
Fact: He got stacked 3 times
Fact: He wishes the other guy had villain's hand
Unknown: Whether or not he was on tilt
You have to check back the river - no?
KK, K9, 66 seemed unlikely for hero's line. That said, it still would have been a ballsy villain line with combo draws or just a single K. Especially in a limped pot. That stuff would put me in a blender. Great fold.
Putting in 1430 to get back 475. Gotta chop 75%. 4 combos we lose to.
And no Bart, there are 4 combos of KJ, KT, each, and 3 combos of KQ. If he ever completes with smaller kings, especially suited, then that’s way more than the 12 combos needed to chop with.
I fold on the flop when sb leads for pot. I play to much online poker and it's usually always thick value when sb leads for pot into that many ppl on the flop. Especially since you only limped pre flop sb will realize a lot of his equity. Vs a reg this spot is always 2 pair plus, u can see that when he bets the turn too again into everyone is so nutted.
Live poker is incredibly different. If you are playing live low stakes the way you play online poker you are lighting money on fire
Don’t limp. Fold flop. Don’t bet river. But good fold in the end at least.
Or not???
As my very good friend says, when you make one mistake it compounds to others. Limping was the mistake here.
Or villian was donking and missed his flush draw and only move was to shove...
Just saying that in the villain shoes I’m mostly likely putting the hero on a K and if it’s likely to split I’m jamming. If I have K9 or 66 I’m making it an amount I think gets called
At least online those spots dont matter tbh... if u have kings full and run ointo quads there gg... you will stack ur opponent anyways if the situation gets reversed and youre the guy with quads... those are 0 EV spots minus rake
well I got the river card and action guessed right based on the title
Would this be a good play by the villain with 99 as a bluff because he blocks K-9? What size should 99 take on this river if he's convinced that the hero has a king and he wants to bluff him off a king? Or should 99 not bluff here?
Don't bluff here! R: H is a calling station of the highest order. So, you cannot know whether he was going to call your bluff. This particularly that he bet river!! Watch out! (H said he did not call...really??).
Or maybe hero is nitty and villian exploited that
As played, this is a snap fold on the river.
For the same reason you can’t raise this board on the river if the villain bets is the same reason it’s a clear fold in the river if you get raised after betting. Clear as day. I haven’t even got to that point yet but I’m guessing what’s gonna happen.
Sick fold
Ryan did good, it hurts to fold with that hand but it probably was the smart call, I’m not disciplined enough to fold, I would have been smoked.
The opponent could have K6; which is a perfect bluffing hand. Although there isn't a suited K6 available. However I have seen stranger things happen.
The fact that the king he could have is the king of spades makes his Kx of spades hands super likely for a chop
Anybody else think it's possible villain could have 87ss or JTss as played?
I haven't met a villain who is giving up the triple barrel AND going for the check-raise here
Question: if hero can fold a king, why can't villain have a bluff?
Don’t understand bart even suggesting a thin value bet targeting 99. I know he didn’t advocate for that but even suggesting it makes little sense. No point targeting that specific hand when there’s an 80% chance that hand would fold anyway. You’re rarely getting called by worse so it’s an easy check back on river
So, the moral of the story is to raise pf in this situation. Raise to $35 and the SB folds K9o pf.
Top notch
4:40 Hero’s getting 5:1
before I see the reveal I am thinking its quads or nines full I keep thinking its quads but I would call and lose if villan has me beat
Wait! There was a jackpot? Any quads over Full?
I'm never folded
Any hockey fans out there that think to themselves, "man, young Kelly Rhudy is great at poker!"
K2s-K9, with most hands being KT-KJ
One other factor would be if the small blind has KX, he himself has to worry about the hero having 66 or K9. For all the reasons you mentioned plus this consideration it seems like a no brainer fold and I haven't watched this to the end yet (I paused at 23:48 to type this), and could care less about the results. I would fold 100% of the time in this spot and if he shows me trey deuce off after I muck awesome
Hero isn’t always going to flat the flop with 66 or K9 though, especially when it’s so multi-way.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj Serious question is hero supposed to raise flop with K9? It seems silly to ask but villain's action is so extreme it almost feels like hero doesn't have a raising range.
IMO? Given V's post-hand comments? H made a good fold... "Inelasticity" of H was what the V was referencing/depending upon... Was a K9-off complete out of SB pretty awful? Sure, but so is limping KQ off...
*Way to shake off the hook of inelasticity.... IMO
You got bluffed
bro limped in with kq 5 way to the flop theres ur mistake
well, he made about 4 mistakes!! Starting with limping.
99 would be a sick bluff haha. Double blocks K9
You have to realize you have very little value from betting and almost all of your equity is in showdown
I don't quite understand V's claim that he had the nuts. Didn't show 66 for the high hand bonus, and K9 is only 2nd nuts. So what nuts is he claiming but not explicitly saying?
i dont know how many people will get this, but he feels like a poker crazed and more human version of Abed
So much mental masturbation about .0076% quads. I'm glad that I listened to this in the background while doing other stuff, and even watching other videos at the same time. Talk about monsters under the bed. That one time... 4 years ago... someone happened to have quads against Andy. Big woopdy doo. That one time in band camp, I stuck a flute...
His analysis was really good I found maybe just listen to it again
@@MichaelFoucault-u4h shhhh
MrAgmoore thanks for playing poker
Before finishing my guess is sb has k 10
There are 4 combos of KJ and KT BTW
24:43 _I ended up folding_ If you've done that on flop, could've saved yourself tonnes of $$$.
Losing to K9 of spades and 66 only. No value in raising
Bart needs to get a medal for Nit of the year. Are you fricken kidding me? He's trying to push you off a chop and you're giving him credit for the ONE hand that beats you (f off with the quads). Villains probably had A6 and backed into it or just another K, AK whatever. Unbelievable.
If you think villain check/jams for that sizing with a 6, that says a lot of things about your skill level and none of them are good.
Oh Lordy critiqued by a pro….or some idiot on RUclips
@@paulpena5040 So you're allowed to critique others but if somebody critiques you, that's not allowed. Got it.
I would never beleive him he just didnt want to chop
No idea who taught them kill. Kill is either from scooping in split pot or a mandatory straddle, this can't be their terminology or who taught them this is wrong.
can't SB be 66 on the turn?
How could player announce the nuts when it's not possible they have the nuts? Since nuts is quad kings
It’s 2x likely that he has 99 vs 66. Unless he’s a very tricky player, I’m betting 1/3 pot
It was me (villain) I had A6
Top full house ? Fold ? Why even play
Jacky vs andy, andy q10 off Jacky quad 9s
If it is a chop you are either going to win about $400 and if you fold you are going to lose about $400. That is an $800 usd swing. You are basically saying he has two distinct hands 66 or K9spades if you fold. So 2 out of 1326 hands right. So 0.14% of the time you are beat. I am going to say if you fold here maybe your opponent has picked up on the fact you overfold. I can think of plenty of times someone goes all-in to get someone off a chop. I mean why not, you only have to fold a small percentage of the time to make it worth it. I don't think you are beat enough times to fold here. And who says he is never bluffing. Look up worse fold in history and you will see a bunch of "smart" players making bad folds because you are assuming your opponent never makes a bad bet or bluffs. Poker these days seems like finding reasons to fold. Maybe it works in some games but not the ones I play in. I can't even watch tournament poker anymore. They take too damn long to find a reason to fold and 1/2 the time they are wrong anyways. I would rather call half the time and be incorrect then fold 1/2 the time and be incorrect.
Just wanted to correct your math, there are 4 combos of 66 and K9.
It’s also not 1326 combos. There are 45 unknown cards, so it’s 990 combos.
if ur not making that call, you need to play in a lower stakes game
Six ways to the flop with king queen off. it sounds awful.
Monsters under the bed.
If you're implying that hero should have called, you could not be more wrong.
Hero slow played his self into a looser when you throw a small bet on the river you set yourself up for a all in bluff put your ego in check and learn your opponent
Wow these comments really prove poker is alive, although I doubt any of them play bigger than 1/2 lmao
I think Bart has seen too many bad beats. I would beat the villan in the pot. but I am a very small winner over many years of playing lower stakes usually 2-5 with no cap. ( I wrote this before I saw the reveal)
Terrible laydown. Call and it is what it is.
Raising pre-flop to about 35 would have been the proper play here. (Rather than limping). Hero likely would have won money this hand instead.
I had a very similar situation at Caesar’s Palace 1/3, the biggest pot I ever won at the time. Entire table limps, I complete 55 in the SB. Flop is J99, checks through. Turn 5, I lead for $20, all fold except BTN who raises to $65, I call. River 5, I lead for $50, he raises to $180, I jam for $3600 and he snaps with QJ.
This is not a “kill” pot… “Kill” pots are in Limit games. Why does he keep calling it a Kill??!
That’s what they call it at that casino.
You definitely folded the winner, guy lied..
Sounds like 99