Problem With The Ultimate Universe
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
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Ultimate thor in Ultimates 2 was revealed to be not crazy and to be the actual God of thunder, probably my favorite moment in Ultimates 2 made me a thor fan.
Yeah, Johnathan Hickman expanded more on the whole Asgard thing before the maker destroyed Asgard.
Is ultimate thor the one who has the black hammer?
@@g.a.2997mabye it was a crazy guy and they change it.
@SpikeTheWolf no, Ultimate thor is the guy with Hammer & Axe Mjoinir and has a beard with blonde hair.
Ultimate Thor bought underage Thing and Human Torch beer.
My problem with the ultimate universe is that they wanted this to be a fresh jumping off point for new comic book fans which is great. BUT it ran to long and got so many books you had to read that it just ended up running into the same issue that the main Marvel continuity did.
This. If you were there when the Ultimate series started you were okay, but then it just became another continuity to keep up with.
This is exactly it
@@Science_afterhoursi guess it just depends i ran through whole ultimate reading order like 2 years ago and ghe fact i only had to wordy about a decade of character history vs 40 years made it a bit easier. like i realize you dont have to read everu single spiderman comic to understand whats going on but i mean it was also fhe same way w ultimate just if you DID wanna junp back it was wayyy easier
This was NOT the problem of the new Ultimate Universe. Are you an idiot?
The Ultimate Universe being a fresh start and new takes on characters was great. It gaining more books to read is not an issue, ITS COMICS.
That’s still a much better starting point rather than the convoluted continuity, retconned filled, event-heavy that is the 616.
The problem I think that other than Spider-Man the rest of the books were doing away too much. The writers that shocking the readers would boost sales but no
Ultimatum truly damaged the line beyond repair back in the day. Spider-Man was left to carry it and keep it limping along. I was maybe about 13-14 when it happened, and my mom paid to get me the Midtown subscription in the mail. I remember that last issue of Ultimate Spider-Man from the Ultimatum event ended on a bit of a cliffhanger, and it made you think Pete died. I was so pissed when no more issues arrived in my mailbox, I really thought they killed Peter. When I was about 16, I finally went into a comic store again, right as the prelude to the Death of Ultimate Spider-Man was starting.
So, I got back into Ultimate Spider-Man, right as they were *actually* about to kill Peter, haha. I loved seeing Bagley back on the book, though! Some of those covers were on another level (I love 156 to this day).
The various acts of Cannibalism, Hank Pym going WAAAAY beyond a slap, Captain America being "old fashioned", Hulk harem, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver, and acts of over the top violence n gore. Like when Hulk ripped Logan in half and threw his less on the other side of Everest. These are the things that I think off when I think the Ultimate Universe.
in short every bad creative impulse Mark Millar has.
So....marvel universe....in the world of the boys?
Cap made sense at least
Sounds lit to me 🤷♂️
Personal Ultimatium WTF moment: Spider-Man finds Daredevil drowned in a sewer in the Spider-Man tie in
What a sad and tragic way to die for a hero
Was ultimate DD a "good" superhero?
I’ll say the way they dispatched Dr. Strange was… a choice.
I think what will make the new ultimate universe work is that they are all connected to one story, defeating the maker who messed up their world/destiny. and so it won't be competing with the main universe comics in telling a monthly story part of continuity, like the original ultimate universe did. Also maybe this will be the push our main universe needs to tell awesome stories like it did back in the early 2000s
I do love how the original run of the Ultimate Spiderman started. Now I wonder will the new one will do :)
The controversies from the ultimate universe I recall were the cannibalism and scarlet witch being in a relationship with quicksilver. Ultimate spider-man was definitely my favorite. Plus, kitty pryde is my favorite Xmen
I don't think continuity is a problem, it's more so the readers initiative to explore the lore and history of a fictional universe or it's characters. I became a comics fan around 4 years old when the Toby Spider-man movies came out and my uncles grew up reading the classic marvel comics and had a whole collection of it, when they introduced me to this fictional universe I was amazed that there was a thousand or more characters out in the Marvel Universe aside from just Spider-man so after my uncles gave me some of their comics I didn't even know anything about a continuity that had been around for 60 years at the time so after reading these comics with no context and just jumping in the middle of a 60 year story arc I researched each character ranging from the main (titular) to the supporting cast and from there it went from collecting comics and doing more research and soon I became knowledgeable in the lore and right around the time middle school came about I jumped back to the beginning during the Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, era (the silver age) and read my way to the 70's,80's,90's, and 2000's, and soon everything started making sense and I thoroughly enjoyed going back and reading my way up the present time. Granted, I didn't come from a rich family or anything but my enthusiasm to collect comics was what made going back to the beginning of a now 80 year old Marvel Universe and becoming well know ledged in the lore fun and fascinating. I was very excited to hear that the Ultimate Universe was returning, especially when Cates was hinting of it's return in his Venom story arc because whatever you may think of the Ultimate's Universe it was my favorite else worlds Marvel universe of all time but we got a brand new rebooted Ultimate Universe and while I was skeptical and a little disappointed I am now fascinated with a new direction but I still think there would be no issue with the older Ultimate Universe (1610) coming back (well it's already back as seen in Spider-men 2 and in the Donny Cates Venom run as well as the Miles Morales series) because that universe has been around for 20 years or so which is a baby compared to the main 616 earth 😂 and would have been easy for new readers to go back and collect some Ultimate comics but of course it seems to be a difficulty for modern readers to do. This new Ultimates Universe (earth-6160) will eventually have a ''continuity issue" and the MCU is going through that "problem" as well so it my suggestion that people need to be willing to learn certain topics without getting the easy way out by having things rebooted for them or revamped let alone placing movie characters from the MCU in the main comics just so that they can retain familiarity. Anyway, I just thought I'd drop some thoughts on this Continuity topic that has been circulating for so many years in the comicbook community.
This makes sense because this new ultimate universe is starting with Spider-Man with amazing writers and new story’s, and since zebb wells is making spider-man shitty people have to pick the new universe, this will probably start all over again, i just hope they can have good continuity and doesn’t get too confusing and I’m hoping they will stop with this Spider-Man before they burn out of ideas
Thor was indeed, revealed to be the legit Thor in the same run the idea was introduced. In fact, I have Ultimates 2 with me right now, such a great story. The first 2 Ultimates felt like movies
I primarily know the Ultimate Universe from the 2 animated Ultimates films, Ultimate X-Men, and Ultimate Spider-Man.
To this day the original Ultimate Spider-Man run is one of my absolute favorite comic runs and Spider-Man runs. I am very excited about this new series, I am loving what they are doing so far with the plot.
I kinda wish Benny did more research. There were several smaller crossovers in the Ultimate Universe like the Ultimate Galactus trilogy, Ultimate X4, Ultimate War and Ultimate Six. In my opinion, Ultimatum didn't tank the Ultimate Universe. Ultimate Power started the end as it was a precursor to ending two Universes, the Ultimate Universe and the Supreme Power Universe. Ultimate Power was a crossover between the Ultimate Universe and the rebooted gritty and realistic Squadron Supreme by JMS.
OG Ultimate Spider-Man is my most read and favourite comic run of all time. Personally I can't wait for the new run (ordered the connection variant and currently waiting for it to arrive)
Fun fact the thing isn't killing doctor doom in ultramatum, doctor doom is currently in the zombies universe at the time killing and surviving this is a different person I forget her name and ho took up the name, the real doctor doom comes back in a later story but he is bad ass
The new Ultimate Spider-Man is the first time I’ve gotten excited for a new series in a while
You should talk to Sal.He actually has extensive knowledge about the Ultimate universe
I was setting up my Sub box at my shop then. And I'm a completionist type of personality. So Ultimate was awesome. Fresh #1 books and go forward. I did Ultimate Spidey, Xmen, F4, Ultimates and Iron Man. Then money was tight and I couldn't just stop. But then Ultimatum happened and with all the deaths you mentioned, I really did think that was the end. I was like cool, a series with an actual beginning and end. Then I got a kick in the ass when they kept rebirthing it. Like I missed all the Miles stuff and so on...
The second time was ignored because Donny Cates got hurt and couldn't finish that storyline. The idea of Ultimate Invasion was from Donny Cates but the story beats and writing is obviously Hickman. I think i got that all right.
my problem with the original ultimate marvel universe is that well after ultimatum the entire line went to hell and none of the survivors we had left weren't really interesting except for ultimate peter parker Spider-Man and his cast who were always amazing everybody else not so much and basically were reduced to cannon fodder, which is sad because the original ultimate marvel universe had some cool stuff especially with ultimate Spider-Man and the X-Men but after ultimatum everything fell apart and the universe never recovered sadly at least in my opinion.
I remember reading Ultimatum after Ultimate X-Men and I still feel that unpleasant sensation in my stomach from that day. There was this bitter aftertaste. I really felt like I need to take a shower after finishing it. It was one of the most unpleasant reads I’ve had.
@@emperorpalpatine6239 same here
19:20 - editor error! Wrong Secret Wars!
Used Secret Wars II instead of Secret Wars 2015
I wish we could get new OG ultimate spiderman comics just so we can see him hopefully enjoy his life for a decent period of time
Bro ultimate ff was so good. No one talks about it but it was one of the original 4 and no one talks about it
I want comics back in Walmart because I DON'T HAVE A LOCAL COMIC STORE. *I DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO PHYSICAL COMICS.*
I believe it was the Incursions storyline. Where the Maker was destroying universes
The Ultimate universe was being carried by Brian Michael Bendis and even he made some questionable actions (ultimate conics Venom)
I understand the criticism for Carnage and Deadpool in the ultimate universe but Venom?
Dont tell Rob about your take on why Secret Wars 2015 happened. I can hear him now. "OMG! Avengers/New Avengers by Hickman. Man, Lemme tell you something..."
Benny love your left arched eyebrow. Gives you more of.a sophisticated intelligent look.
"Why are you still watching?" got me good 😂😂😂
I thought I just saw it wrong I knew the ultimate universe was on some Payless shoes growing up 😭😭
It’s hilarious how everyone talks about how poorly Ultimatum and other Ultimate lines sold because if you look at the numbers, Marvel would kill to have books nowadays that sold like that. Say what you want about the Ultimate Universe, but it took chances and was a fun read. I’d take it over anything written since 2015 that’s for sure.
Yes they killed Magneto. He got his head blown off by Cyclops after Nick Fury just shatters his worldview by telling him that mutants were a genetic experiment by the government.
Nick Fury just be shattering every hero’s world first Thor now Cyclops who’s next?
You're vids are so good mofo... In the Midwest we sometimes had to buy our comics at Movie Gallery and Wal-Mart
Just started the video. If he doesn’t mention the cannibalism, a big problem with the original ultimate universe was cannibalism
just watch youtube videoes before commenting next time…
League of extraordinary gentlemen!!
I grew up in a rural area and didn’t have comic book stores around so ultimately Spider-Man was the first comic I bought at age 9 because they had them in Walmart. Tough to believe they weren’t there before then!
I have never seen a local comic book store so i hope they keep selling it in bigger stores like walmart
HA I’m exactly the same way with drama
In the 90s I just went off the covers. Lol. I did collect the whole x-cutioner's song. But then my teacher threw them away, so I stopped collecting or buying them altogether. Really want you to do that series, as well as the phalanx story that followed and the onslaught series. Don't have time for comics work too much. Also did they go anywhere with the reprogrammed Thor in 2099? Lol little stem cell research little brainwashing and BAM! Thor. Hahaha
Am I the only one who really loved Ultimatum?
Benny makes sense. I only purchase Superior Spiderman when it first came out and randomly purchased Amazing Spiderman
Man, you forgot to mention the Annihilation storyline. It was my first full storyline since I stopped reading comics in the early 90s
Well we know the past ultimate is going to have secret wars with the new one…
i only ever read the ultimate spiderman. Im more of a movie/videogame fan so ultimate spiderman is actually the ONLY(superhero) comic ive ever read and i adored it. i did not know about all that stuff in ultimatum but i remember one part from that which was the first "death" of spiderman i love the panel where JJ is looking out his office window while the city is flooded and he just sees spiderman diving into the flood waters to rescue civilians. and he realizes that he was wrong about spiderman the whole time. honestly I love that JJ, i love the JJ that isnt just an irredeemable ass. like the insomniac games i absolutely love the game but I feel like they did JJ dirty.
one of the few greatest channels/companies to ever be on the internet.
I loved Ultimate Spider-man and Kitty Pryde
You and your crew are amazing and the info you provided is awesome.,it must be alot of work
I was a fan of the Ultimate universe, and could even accept the weird things the did (like Cannibal Hulk), because I knew my 'Real' guys still existed in 'standard' marvel.
However, 'Ultimatum' killed my interest in the entire line, and I only picked up the occasional issue after that (I think I ended with the 'crossover' of Ultimate Power, which was a fitting meeting between the Ultimates and the 'rebooted, gritty' Squadron Supreme (a comic line which also never got its ending issues).
The problem with the new Ultimate universe is Marvel haven’t ended the 616.
The Ultimate Universe of 6160 is the most interested I’ve been in Marvel comics I’ve been in YEARS. I love seeing all the fresh new takes on our favourite characters:
6160 Peter being a adult family man is what Spider-Man fans have wanted for years, The Maker is one of the best comic book villains and best thing to come out of the old Ultimate Universe, Ultimate Tony been a Teen like Armored adventures is the most compelling character in the universe IMO. I really want to see his journey of either becoming a villain like Kang or hero- Iron Man like Howard was. ReedDoom is surrounded by mystery and want to see where Victor is.
Marvel should let 616 go, it should’ve ended after Secret Wars.
The first Spidermen was my first comic book and I thought it was good despite how confused I got trying to read it
The Maker and Miles are the two best parts and the legacy. Touch on the maker a bit he’s great
You know the story is messing up when Brian Michael Bendis is your carry writer
Boom mangastorian
I think everyone can agree miles is the best part of the ultimate universe
Is superior spiderman with nightcralwer still going?
Loved the ad read
The ending of the vídeo and te poscredit scene 🤣🤣🤣
I’ve always like the ultimate universe and I was sad to see the monster go at the time. Even with all of the crazy writing I loved the curses they got to take. At least they kept Miles around. I’m all in on this reboot.
What I would really like is some sort of mix between what the Ultimate comics did and the "Life Story" series. Basically a line of comics that goes through a retelling of the most popular stories in their respective books like F4, Spider-man etc. BUT the time actually progresses in those books and all the stories have beginning and an end so we basically get to see our heroes hang their capes and pass the torch and then the story ends and\or you can start a new line that continues the story with new generation heroes if that's what you want, but I would rather see a simple ending where a 50 year old Spider-man is happily married and retires, leaving the superheroing to the kids and that's it.
I just miss old aunt may and spiderman friends and lovers from old universe
I don't want this universe to be Ultimate in name only, I've been a fan of that universe and its characters.
Rebooting it is fine. Just respect the original Ultimate Universe whilst giving a new spin to it.
F Ultimatum and Ultimates 3
17:35 Agreed
The only things from the OG Ultimate universe that I think are worth reading are Spider-Man pre-Ultimatum and X-Men post-Ultimatum. The early Ultimate FF stuff is also pretty cool and Ultimate Thor had his moments. The original Miles Morales books are an ok read if you want to see the characters’ early years but they’ve been overshadowed by all of the books/media post Spider-Verse movies.
I enjoyed the original Ultimate universe up until Ultimatum. Then I kind of fell off and returned to the canon books. Ultimate X-Men and Spider-Men were my favourites
I like that they are truly making the ultimate universe an alternate universe rather than trying to make it a reboot universe that went completely off the rails.
Even if this does well, we'll eventually have the same issue of people not knowing where to start and questioning what stories are part of which continuity. It's an ongoing problem.
Rest in peace 🐐
They brought out "new Coke" with the expectation to fail, so they could bring regular coke back with high fructose corn syrup instead of sugar.
I can’t believe he went the whole video without mentioning the incest between Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver lol
I loved the ultimate comics line. I had collected some older X-Men books when I was really young but I didn’t start ACTUALLY collecting until my parents got me one of those Walmart 3 in 1 editions of the first 3 Ultimate X-men books. Ultimatum did kill it pretty hard but I was all for David Finch artwork so the grossness didn’t hit me until the final issue where they killed Cyclops for no reason
While the ultimate universe had its problems, I always was drawn to it world and characters. I got into it when I was in high school in the mid 2010s when I bought ultimate x-men vol 15 and became a fan of that version of the team. While ultimate spider-man is objectively better, I always liked x-men and collected most of the series pre-ultimatum. I was aware of ultimatum before getting vol 15 and thought it was weird but hated it after reading and getting attached to this version of the X-men. I’m a proud ultimate marvel fan.
I want an M Rated the Ultimates game with the same principles. A group of flawed (but likeable) heroes under government jurisdiction with a new take on the characters and their designs. An Iron Man that isn't red and gold, a Captain America that has a different shield, the suspicion that Thor had psychosis and isn't from Asgard, etc.
Magneto did die in Ultimatum. Lasered to death by Cyclops.
Soo the subject of comics in a Walmart, and it being unusual, is funny to me because I grew up in a very rural area in the 1990s and there were NO comic shops or anything similar for hundreds of miles around. I was only ever ache to pick up the books I read but finding them sporadically in local supermarkets or pharmacies (Food City and RiteAid, if you’re wondering… even tho no one will know what the hell those are) or later through the mail via those mail-in subscriptions found in the ads in books back then. Soo the idea of comics in Walmart doesn’t really have the same connotations for me that it does for people who grew up with their local comic shop.
For me, Ultimate Marvel ended up in the same situation as the main line. When I got into it in the late 2000s/early 2010s, it definitely felt like Ultimate Marvel was trying to be more edgy. Ultimatum was the point of no return for me though I still liked Ultimate Peter. The problem for me right now is that I cannot see a situation where they can avoid making the same mistakes once again. Sooner or later, the writers end up making deaths cheap, screwing up character stories, and end up back in a point where the alternate universe is dead.
Love the ad read!
Ultimatum was probably one of the first story arcs I read and I thought it was cool.
Back when the ultimate universe was popular wizard ran an article arguing that the ultimate universe should replace the main 616 universe.
Fun fact about the Ultimate Iron Man comic that was so bad they wrote it out of continuity. It was written by a man named Orson Scott Card, the guy who wrote Ender's Game and famously said that Star Trek was "bad sci-fi". Problems with the man's main body of works aside, that Star Trek comment is doubly funny in regards to his Ultimate Iron Man book because of how stupid some of the leaps in logic are (i.e. a monkey infected with the Planet of the Apes virus biting Tony's then pregnant mom leading to Tony's entire body effectively functioning as brain matter).
the ultimate universe killed my collecting. i was an avid spidey fan and own almost every copy of every series printed before ultimate. the clone saga almost did me in, but having ultimate come out right after just destroyed all my good wil. they just weren't my superheroes anymore.
The best thing they could do with the new Ultimate universe is keep it neat and uncomplicated. Besides the initializing cosmic inconsistent they're shouldn't be Amy multiverse stuff, no time travel, no major event crossovers. Stop complicating these universes and keep them more confined and the books won't have so many continuity issues or relaunches and the book will sell better. Also stop trying to be 3edgy5me like the original Ultimate universe.
Excuse me! Benny! How dare you tell me not to watch the credits! Shame on you!
ultimate x-men was hit or miss, it makes sense that mark millar only watched the movies xD.
i met jeph loeb last year, he signed my hardcover of ultimatum and told me the story of how he got the gig to write it, he said brian michael bendis and joe quesada called to have a meeting with him and david finch about the future of marvel, when they got to the room brian michael bendis looked at hi and said “i want to kill the ultimate universe, and i want you to do it” jeph told me he instantly said yes and was on board to take the darkest and most brutal approach to ending it and thus, we have ultimatum.
*sigh* It always comes down to Brian Michael Bendis, that hack.
should be noted, Jeph's kid had recently died.
You're still a soldier Benny of the nerd Army
New Coke was released as a cover for the switch from sugar to corn syrup.
Meanwhile Ultimate spider-man of Brian Michael Bendis and Mark Bagley focused on recreated the magic of comics from Stan Lee and Steve Ditko, and also give it a fresh air to the character for a most modern generation, Ultimate X-Men, The Ultimates and Ultimate Fantantic Four comics, other side, tried to been so realistic, so edgy, and so visceral that fogotten what made special the Marvel comics during the Silver Age on 60's and 70's.
The person who told you the plot of Secret Wars was Alex from Comics Explained. I know, because that's me. To be fair, I was refering to Secret Wars 2015 lol
As I said in the other video I’m very stand offish on this new one because of what happened in the old one. It was supposed to be grounded but as you said it became extreme shock jock and wasn’t grounded at all. I full stop moved on and stop buying it. Once that happens it is hard to get me personally back. I don’t like to get burned and waste years of my limited on Earth time.
Guess we will see but I won’t be buying till they prove they won’t shit the bed again.
If the biggest complaint about Ultimatum is they killed off some major characters, then ... so what? Status quo can never change, I guess
dont forget they killed daredevil off panel in ultimatum
I mostly read ultimate spider-man which I enjoyed at the time although I hate how they did most of his villains and I read 2 or 3 of the ultimates volumes I think I think the problem with ultimate marvel was that it cared more about shocking you then telling a good story like Logan being kind of a creep or the stuff with scarlet witch and quicksilver
When i think of Ultimate universe, I think of all the gross and horrible stuff they did (incest, cannibalism, people being generally worse to each other, and etc)
What's lost to time is the fact Millar's Ultimates books suffered from delays. Ultimate X-Men was built up with a very specific goal in mind, to keep it very media and politically focused, a vision that wasn't shared by other writers.
im definitely not looking for a $650 chair....
I have a bad feeling that after the results for the new Ultimate Spider-Man come in and show they're positive, Marvel editorial could purposely sabotage the book as an excuse to get it cancelled, only to turn around and say "See? Fans don't like it when we make Peter an old man!" Because they *ARE* known to be that petty.
I hope you understand who is writting that book
He's not doing it because its what you guys hes just writting whatever he wants and it may line up with what you for now but just know hes going to do whatever he wants and he like to just pull the rug from right under you and go somewhere completely different
😂😂so just be ready
Mainstream Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver: Awesome
Old ultimate Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver: NO
As long as nothing to big of a shock factor galore happens after this the ultimate universe should be great. There was sorta shock factor in the lead up to this ultimate spiderman but hat was all with the influence of the maker. If the ship flies steady and make it a world where you want to live in and sees what happens next and it doesn't crash with to many gore deaths and stuff this will sell
quick question, is the amazing spider man ending with the start of the spectacular spider-men?
But yes, the old ultimate universe was a mixed bag.