@@NICOLAS25478 Thanks! It was satisfying to discover how to ensure clean airflow by tacking the sail fully, to the leeward side of the mast. Surprisingly efficient too.
Dang! That tack maneuver is really slick! Much less fuss and bother than I expected when I started watching the video. Beautiful Whitehall skiff, also.
"Exactly when a settee [lateen sail variant] with a long luff and a short yard would turn into a dipping lug with a a long yard and a short luff defies precise definition." Philip C. Bolger 103 Sailing Rigs, Straight Talk.
cool, very nice video. Beautiful country. Love the dipping boomless lantern idea. A going to try it on my just completed 14' rowing dory. Hanalei Bay Kauai, Hawaii... Aloha!
At first, I thought "how is this not a dipping lug sail"? I suppose it's because of the triangular lateen shape, and it's not a four-sided lug? I'm somewhat new to sailing.
For those asking about the detail, we've now decided to call the tack downhaul the 'dipping line', which best describes its purpose. (We were previously referring to it as the 'jib sheet'). It is a continuous loop, and carries the tack back and round, aft of the mast. The dipping arrangement was inspired by watching videos of the Vela Latina in the Canary Islands.
Really nice boat and I love the 'dipping line'. Great content! On the West coast of Ireland we sail a similar boat which rightly or wrongly, we call an Achill Yawl (Achill being the place name). I'll have to give your rigging set up a try, although our sails may be too large. Example of the Achill Yawl ruclips.net/video/-3q3378To2U/видео.html
@@LaserGunNun the Achill Yawls look beautiful! As you say, substantially bigger and heavier. Also you have stays (reassuring). Hebe has a single stay we can rig if needed but we have rarely used it because we’d need to tack the stay before tacking the sail. (We’ve not tried stays both sides - I think that would obstruct the free rotation of the sail, especially downwind). So we sail - as the boat was originally designed - unstayed.
@@Speedsailor1 Hi, thanks for replying! The Achill Yawl was originally unstayed, but after years of unregulated racing, the boats/sails/masts got bigger eventually requiring the need for stays after too many broken masts. We also moved from wooden masts to re-purposed yacht aluminum masts. It's turned into a hodgepodge of traditional and local innovation. A lot of fun though. We also use sand/gravel bags for ballast which are moved depending on the tack. Also, pig iron weights (help with momentous through the turns). The mast position is quite far forward, she must be fun to jibe on a windy day?
The sail looked like it had to " feel it's way"around the mast! Beautiful boat/ sail/ country. I would love to have an experience like you show...& especially because it can be done with other like- minded people. Too much solo boating for me!
Very cool design. I've been looking at how balanced Lugs are tacked and have seen nothing that I've been satisfied with so far. I think that a similar concept could be used in a balanced lug for when you want to get a little extra upwind performance on the bad side. I've heard people say there is no bad side but I don't believe it for a second unless you have two bad sides because you aren't setting the sail properly on the good side or sailing upwind at 80 degrees or something!
Thanks Matt. Yes I can’t believe it either! The most important part of any aerofoil is near the leading edge so the last thing you want is to ruin the shape there.
The main halyard is through a block which is attached to the top of the mast via a very short strop and loop over the narrowed top of the mast. (It is held there by halyard pressure only). Rather hard to describe without a photo! But the result is that the yard (held up by its halyard) is free to rotate around the mast.
I’m really glad that I found this (by coincidence)! But I have a few questions. Do you have to release the halyard and let the boom/yard down first? How about the main sheet? How do you attach the boom/yard to the mast, so that it is taut but still lose enough to be able to rotate around the mast? How do you lead the luff downhaul around the mast? How does it all work in a gybe? Thank you!
Me Mine Hi! 1. No change to the halyard. It runs through a block at the top of the mast, and there's plenty of scope to rotate without adjusting anything. No clever rotating fittings. Having said that, if needed this mast will rotate. 2. To tack or gybe (same procedure) there is a continuous loop that takes the bottom end of the lateen back and round (aft of) the mast. 3. Mainsheet: just needs easing during the manoeuvre. Hope that helps a bit!
Thanks for the reply, and sorry for me not answering sooner! As for point 1 in your answer, if there is plenty of scope to rotate the yard around the mast, does that not mean that the yard is usually blown quite far away from the mast? How can you keep control, and how do you keep the sail tightened? As for point 2 in your answer, I understand that there must be a loop around the mast to take the sail tack around the mast. But once it is around and on the “new” side, it must be held down taut in roder for the luff not to be slack. How do you pull it down on both sides? Again, thank you for your replies! I almost wish there was a website with more explanations and/or photos. :)
Hi! 1. It remains fairly tight at the mast, so that doesn't feel loose at all (except when reefed, but that's another story). 2. On either side, the tack is pulled tight to the same point at the bows. It is pulled down to a (brass) ring on the bow. Does that explain it? If I can find a better way to illustrate it I'll post that.
Thanks! Yes, if you have something to show, I'd be interested... don't sweat it, though! Beautiful boat and also the location is just awesome! You're lucky!
@@memine6456 I would have liked to see how they tack with the sail reefed. I would expect there might be a problem of interference with the yard lower.
Hey! This is really nice boat!! I am Mongolian. In Mongolia no sea but some lakes and rivers. We don't know tradition in boat making and using. I want to make one sailboat to sail in river. Can this boat sail against riverstream?
Thank you! The answer will depend on the wind direction and strength, and the strength of the stream. We have, for example, sailed on the River Shannon in Ireland which is one of the world's great rivers. Sailing with the wind (downwind) is easy and could be achieved against some flow if needed, and in a narrower river. If a river is wide, that makes it easier to sail against the wind. But tacking (i.e. sailing directly upwind) is probably not possible against the flow of a river. HEBE is designed so that it is possible to row (using oars) if the conditions do not allow sailing. Wishing you well in your future boating!
The Achill yawls have the same kind of sail. Achill yawls, originally introduced to Ireland as ships' boats aboard Norwegian merchantmen, developed into distinct working vessels along Achill Island's shores during the 19th century. They are not yawls. I think the name comes from the scandinavian word for dinghy, jolle.
That's really a setee sail, which is a variation of the Lateen sail. The only difference here is that the clear luff stays in line with the sparred luff. This simplifies control of the sail over the control of a more conventional setee sail.
Thanks Bob! Yes the sail is triangular rather than quadrilateral. Interesting to know about the setee. I wonder what is the difference between a setee and a boomless lug sail.
@Speedsailor1 The length of the clear luff. I would expect a dipping lug sail to have a much longer clear luff. This clear luff should be close to or greater than the height of the yard pitch. I may well be wrong, but I think the dipping lug sail evolved in norther European waters as a means to get better windward performance out of the square sail. I believe the setee sail evolved from the Lateen sail as a means of getting more sail area per yard length. But it may have evolved as a means of making the yard easier to switch sides on the mast. It seems clear to me that it originated in the Middle East.
really want to make something like this for a canoe. Could you demonstrate a gybe? I assume it would be the same but the wind direction might pose some issues.
KingThallion - P.S. By the way, part of the inspiration for this rig came from the racing barquillos in the Canary Islands, so you might find some videos of racing gybes there!
I'd imagine you'd just sheet it tight on the run depowering the sail and bring the tack of the sail back. As you turn up wind release the sheets and it's just like tacking. If the winds were high and the sea state permitted I don't see why you could not tack through instead of gybing if it was proving difficult.
Yes indeed - there’s not much that’s truly new in the world! I recently found a beautiful example of a lateen rig in the C19th on the Norfolk Broads: www.classicboat.co.uk/articles/maria-the-last-norfolk-broads-lateener/
This video is pure inspiration for me, as I have been planning to replace the spritsail on my 16-ft rowboat with a dipping lugsail for the same reasons you cite. But now it will have to be a dipping lateen! Do you have contact info for Mr Winter?
Lateens are normally designed so they cannot dip. The yard is made so that the side of the boat stops it dipping. This is for safety reasons. The yard can take your eye out.
Its interesting why ppl seem to think lateen style sails need to ( or should) have the yard go from one side of the mast to the other when tacking.... They've worked just fine riding against the mast on one tack for hundreds of years . Ppl just over thinking it, I suppose .
@@roonbare2769 should the efficiency of the sail not be affected substantially when you're on a "bad tack"? This is the same reason dipping lug rigs exist, no? This does seem more elegant than the dipping lugs I've seen in my following internet crawl.
Hello, and I apologize for writing to you again, it's just that this is one of the very few videos showing a dipping lug being operated, so I have another question: I wanted to see how this works, so I built a small model. But it turns out that when I pull the dipping line to bring the throat around the mast, instead of that happening, the yard just gets rotated around the mast until the throat is facing backwards and the peak faces forwards. You don't seem to have this problem. So when you tack, do you have to keep the main sheet taut to prevent the yard from rotating around the mast? Or is this not a problem for you? Thank yo for your inputs. I love this video!
Hello! I hope I am understanding your question correctly. It’s not a problem when sailing upwind (ie tacking). When gybing then yes it is necessary to keep hold of the sheet or it will go the wrong side of the mast. Does that help?
Hello, thank you for the reply, sorry I did not read this earlier. Yes, I think you answered my question, although in a sort of unexpected manner. I had not thought about the wind and the force it would put on the sails. Great video, I really love the environment, cold maybe, but so beautiful! Oh, and one more, I was wondering whether you have a pic or drawing about how your yard is attached to the mast, so that it can swing around? Would be great to see how this is done on your boat. Thanks for posting this!
Me Mine Sorry only just seen this. I don’t think I have a photo but it is very simple: the top halyard block is attached to a loop of cord that holds it onto the top of the mast and is free to rotate. Not very easy to explain without drawing it! The top of the mast is narrowed, so the loop holds in place (with halyard tension only).
Al Loomis thank you - indeed you may be right! As it happens today we visited the National Maritime Museum in Ireland, and learned about the beautiful Achill Yawl. I don’t think it’s really a Yawl (maybe it once was). images.app.goo.gl/5bt3sTmxN9kmdk377
Nice to see a clean tack with a Lateen sail and to see how it works.
@@NICOLAS25478 Thanks! It was satisfying to discover how to ensure clean airflow by tacking the sail fully, to the leeward side of the mast. Surprisingly efficient too.
Dang! That tack maneuver is really slick! Much less fuss and bother than I expected when I started watching the video. Beautiful Whitehall skiff, also.
Thanks David!
"Exactly when a settee [lateen sail variant] with a long luff and a short yard would turn into a dipping lug with a a long yard and a short luff defies precise definition." Philip C. Bolger 103 Sailing Rigs, Straight Talk.
cool, very nice video. Beautiful country. Love the dipping boomless lantern idea. A going to try it on my just completed 14' rowing dory. Hanalei Bay Kauai, Hawaii... Aloha!
Aloha! Sounds great. Love to hear/see how you get on...
At first, I thought "how is this not a dipping lug sail"? I suppose it's because of the triangular lateen shape, and it's not a four-sided lug? I'm somewhat new to sailing.
Beautiful boat. It looks like moving the yard leeward of the mast requires practice. But like a dance it could be graceful when mastered.
For those asking about the detail, we've now decided to call the tack downhaul the 'dipping line', which best describes its purpose. (We were previously referring to it as the 'jib sheet'). It is a continuous loop, and carries the tack back and round, aft of the mast. The dipping arrangement was inspired by watching videos of the Vela Latina in the Canary Islands.
Really nice boat and I love the 'dipping line'. Great content!
On the West coast of Ireland we sail a similar boat which rightly or wrongly, we call an Achill Yawl (Achill being the place name). I'll have to give your rigging set up a try, although our sails may be too large.
Example of the Achill Yawl ruclips.net/video/-3q3378To2U/видео.html
@@LaserGunNun the Achill Yawls look beautiful! As you say, substantially bigger and heavier. Also you have stays (reassuring).
Hebe has a single stay we can rig if needed but we have rarely used it because we’d need to tack the stay before tacking the sail. (We’ve not tried stays both sides - I think that would obstruct the free rotation of the sail, especially downwind). So we sail - as the boat was originally designed - unstayed.
@@Speedsailor1 Hi, thanks for replying! The Achill Yawl was originally unstayed, but after years of unregulated racing, the boats/sails/masts got bigger eventually requiring the need for stays after too many broken masts. We also moved from wooden masts to re-purposed yacht aluminum masts. It's turned into a hodgepodge of traditional and local innovation. A lot of fun though.
We also use sand/gravel bags for ballast which are moved depending on the tack. Also, pig iron weights (help with momentous through the turns).
The mast position is quite far forward, she must be fun to jibe on a windy day?
The sail looked like it had to " feel it's way"around the mast! Beautiful boat/ sail/ country. I would love to have an experience like you show...& especially because it can be done with other like- minded people. Too much solo boating for me!
That's a really clever design!
Very nice boat and sail. Wonderful landscape. Can you give the dimensions of the sail?
Very cool design. I've been looking at how balanced Lugs are tacked and have seen nothing that I've been satisfied with so far. I think that a similar concept could be used in a balanced lug for when you want to get a little extra upwind performance on the bad side. I've heard people say there is no bad side but I don't believe it for a second unless you have two bad sides because you aren't setting the sail properly on the good side or sailing upwind at 80 degrees or something!
Thanks Matt. Yes I can’t believe it either! The most important part of any aerofoil is near the leading edge so the last thing you want is to ruin the shape there.
Great idea.
Will try with a lug sail, on a whaler
How did you attach it to the mast so it pivoted like that?
The main halyard is through a block which is attached to the top of the mast via a very short strop and loop over the narrowed top of the mast. (It is held there by halyard pressure only). Rather hard to describe without a photo! But the result is that the yard (held up by its halyard) is free to rotate around the mast.
Thank you, I think I understand
I’m really glad that I found this (by coincidence)! But I have a few questions. Do you have to release the halyard and let the boom/yard down first? How about the main sheet? How do you attach the boom/yard to the mast, so that it is taut but still lose enough to be able to rotate around the mast? How do you lead the luff downhaul around the mast? How does it all work in a gybe? Thank you!
Me Mine Hi!
1. No change to the halyard. It runs through a block at the top of the mast, and there's plenty of scope to rotate without adjusting anything. No clever rotating fittings. Having said that, if needed this mast will rotate.
2. To tack or gybe (same procedure) there is a continuous loop that takes the bottom end of the lateen back and round (aft of) the mast.
3. Mainsheet: just needs easing during the manoeuvre.
Hope that helps a bit!
Thanks for the reply, and sorry for me not answering sooner!
As for point 1 in your answer, if there is plenty of scope to rotate the yard around the mast, does that not mean that the yard is usually blown quite far away from the mast? How can you keep control, and how do you keep the sail tightened?
As for point 2 in your answer, I understand that there must be a loop around the mast to take the sail tack around the mast. But once it is around and on the “new” side, it must be held down taut in roder for the luff not to be slack. How do you pull it down on both sides?
Again, thank you for your replies! I almost wish there was a website with more explanations and/or photos. :)
Hi! 1. It remains fairly tight at the mast, so that doesn't feel loose at all (except when reefed, but that's another story). 2. On either side, the tack is pulled tight to the same point at the bows. It is pulled down to a (brass) ring on the bow. Does that explain it? If I can find a better way to illustrate it I'll post that.
Thanks! Yes, if you have something to show, I'd be interested... don't sweat it, though!
Beautiful boat and also the location is just awesome! You're lucky!
@@memine6456 I would have liked to see how they tack with the sail reefed. I would expect there might be a problem of interference with the yard lower.
Hey! This is really nice boat!!
I am Mongolian. In Mongolia no sea but some lakes and rivers. We don't know tradition in boat making and using. I want to make one sailboat to sail in river. Can this boat sail against riverstream?
Thank you! The answer will depend on the wind direction and strength, and the strength of the stream. We have, for example, sailed on the River Shannon in Ireland which is one of the world's great rivers.
Sailing with the wind (downwind) is easy and could be achieved against some flow if needed, and in a narrower river.
If a river is wide, that makes it easier to sail against the wind. But tacking (i.e. sailing directly upwind) is probably not possible against the flow of a river.
HEBE is designed so that it is possible to row (using oars) if the conditions do not allow sailing.
Wishing you well in your future boating!
Благодарю!!! Красивая лодка!!! И музыка!!!
The Achill yawls have the same kind of sail.
Achill yawls, originally introduced to Ireland as ships' boats aboard Norwegian merchantmen,
developed into distinct working vessels along Achill Island's shores during the 19th century.
They are not yawls. I think the name comes from the scandinavian word for dinghy, jolle.
That's really a setee sail, which is a variation of the Lateen sail. The only difference here is that the clear luff stays in line with the sparred luff. This simplifies control of the sail over the control of a more conventional setee sail.
Thanks Bob! Yes the sail is triangular rather than quadrilateral.
Interesting to know about the setee. I wonder what is the difference between a setee and a boomless lug sail.
@Speedsailor1
The length of the clear luff.
I would expect a dipping lug sail to have a much longer clear luff. This clear luff should be close to or greater than the height of the yard pitch.
I may well be wrong, but I think the dipping lug sail evolved in norther European waters as a means to get better windward performance out of the square sail.
I believe the setee sail evolved from the Lateen sail as a means of getting more sail area per yard length. But it may have evolved as a means of making the yard easier to switch sides on the mast.
It seems clear to me that it originated in the Middle East.
really want to make something like this for a canoe. Could you demonstrate a gybe? I assume it would be the same but the wind direction might pose some issues.
Yes gybing is exactly the same procedure as tacking. It works fine although we've not (yet) tried it in a very strong wind.
KingThallion - P.S. By the way, part of the inspiration for this rig came from the racing barquillos in the Canary Islands, so you might find some videos of racing gybes there!
I'd imagine you'd just sheet it tight on the run depowering the sail and bring the tack of the sail back. As you turn up wind release the sheets and it's just like tacking. If the winds were high and the sea state permitted I don't see why you could not tack through instead of gybing if it was proving difficult.
not new, visit the nile river. just variations on the dipping lug rig.
Yes indeed - there’s not much that’s truly new in the world! I recently found a beautiful example of a lateen rig in the C19th on the Norfolk Broads: www.classicboat.co.uk/articles/maria-the-last-norfolk-broads-lateener/
This video is pure inspiration for me, as I have been planning to replace the spritsail on my 16-ft rowboat with a dipping lugsail for the same reasons you cite. But now it will have to be a dipping lateen! Do you have contact info for Mr Winter?
John Barber Hi John, feel free to post any questions here or on Twitter @speedsailor
John Barber PS. Glad you like it and found it useful!
Is this design found on the old big combat Caravels?
Lots of different designs inspired this! I believe the caravels had to sail downwind in order to tack, so they were not so good upwind.
Lateens are normally designed so they cannot dip. The yard is made so that the side of the boat stops it dipping. This is for safety reasons. The yard can take your eye out.
Its interesting why ppl seem to think lateen style sails need to ( or should) have the yard go from one side of the mast to the other when tacking....
They've worked just fine riding against the mast on one tack for hundreds of years .
Ppl just over thinking it, I suppose .
@@roonbare2769 should the efficiency of the sail not be affected substantially when you're on a "bad tack"? This is the same reason dipping lug rigs exist, no? This does seem more elegant than the dipping lugs I've seen in my following internet crawl.
are there no stays to the mast?
The mast is unstayed, but for caution I created a single stay for stronger winds - the stay is tacked just before the sail is tacked.
Hello, and I apologize for writing to you again, it's just that this is one of the very few videos showing a dipping lug being operated, so I have another question: I wanted to see how this works, so I built a small model. But it turns out that when I pull the dipping line to bring the throat around the mast, instead of that happening, the yard just gets rotated around the mast until the throat is facing backwards and the peak faces forwards. You don't seem to have this problem. So when you tack, do you have to keep the main sheet taut to prevent the yard from rotating around the mast? Or is this not a problem for you? Thank yo for your inputs. I love this video!
Hello! I hope I am understanding your question correctly.
It’s not a problem when sailing upwind (ie tacking).
When gybing then yes it is necessary to keep hold of the sheet or it will go the wrong side of the mast.
Does that help?
Hello, thank you for the reply, sorry I did not read this earlier.
Yes, I think you answered my question, although in a sort of unexpected manner. I had not thought about the wind and the force it would put on the sails.
Great video, I really love the environment, cold maybe, but so beautiful!
Oh, and one more, I was wondering whether you have a pic or drawing about how your yard is attached to the mast, so that it can swing around? Would be great to see how this is done on your boat.
Thanks for posting this!
Me Mine Sorry only just seen this. I don’t think I have a photo but it is very simple: the top halyard block is attached to a loop of cord that holds it onto the top of the mast and is free to rotate. Not very easy to explain without drawing it! The top of the mast is narrowed, so the loop holds in place (with halyard tension only).
not sure that's a lateen, maybe a dipping lugger with italian ancestors. pretty boat and rig, delight the eyes.
Al Loomis thank you - indeed you may be right!
As it happens today we visited the National Maritime Museum in Ireland, and learned about the beautiful Achill Yawl. I don’t think it’s really a Yawl (maybe it once was). images.app.goo.gl/5bt3sTmxN9kmdk377