I don't really like Herman. I kinda think he is a big creep. But I find him to be an interesting character for the show, someone who exists in a space where no one else belongs. He isn't like Dr. Marvin Monroe, where he just falls off the face of the earth completely. But he isn't like Mr. Largo, who is used very very sparingly, but still pops up from time to time. Herman is like this relic character that the writers decided they didn't want to use, but still refuse to discard him completely. He kinda hangs around in the background, as this reminder to the early days. He's a character everyone knows, but have participated in such a tiny percentage of episodes. ...And I kinda prefer him this way. Please, no Herman-centric episode in Season 30, I'm not asking for that. :p
Something similar happens in South Park, there are characters that had some relevance in the first seasons and today, or they are dead or they make cameos in the background.
TheRealJims Please please please do an episode about snake! He's great plus he served time with Bob! and he has a cool origin story in that not so great episode where he was an archaeologist ooo and he stole Mr burns's girlfriend! Cool guy
It's funny you mention South Park, because Herman does kinda feel like a character who would be on that show. He's a little too dark and weird for The Simpsons, but he would probably work better on South Park.
He kind of got split up through multiple characters. Moe, Cleetus, Doctor Frink, uh… Krusty? I dunno, I don’t really watch the Simpsons, nor have I ever been that big of a fan, but as a base level comparison, that’s who I’d put under his umbrella.
I actually like the fact that there are characters that are hardly seen. It gives the Simpsons world more depth, makes it seem more realistic... in real life, there are people who don't play a major role in your life, and you may not see them for years at a time, but you see them every once in a while.
Agree. One of the major issues with the Simpsons as the years went on is that everyone became friends with everyone else. (e.g. Krusty was no longer just the clown on local TV, etc.) Springfield became an unrealistically small city.
@@rob-merica Yeah I’ve thought for ages and you’ve worded it perfectly. I think it’s why, in comparison a show like South Park hasn’t quite run out of ideas as fast as the Simpsons. Even though South Park is supposed to be a smaller town than Springfield, its characters all exist very separate from each other and it focuses on many families instead of one. So it hasn’t really resorted to “What if this character had to live with main character” or “What if these characters hung out with each-other” stories like the Simpsons, which end making the world feel smaller.
Herman's runnng joke was continued in the comics. One of the jokes was that he lost his arm because he used to be a comicbook artist and draw way too much.
Come to think of it, Herman does kind of look like one of those weird "obviously not Matt Groening" Matt Groening cameos early Simpsons would sometimes have.
Like a lot of early Simpsons, Herman was a parody of a common trope in 1980's TV, fiction and culture. The dodgy Vietnam Vet was a recurring character you'd find in most American neighbourhoods and in American fiction at the time and he was very much inspired by that. I can see why he fell out of use as by the time we got to the 90's, Vietnam vets reached retirement age and were no longer common sights in average American streets.
The only issue with this is that the Simpsons characters haven't aged, therefore Herman wouldn't have either. So he would still fit perfectly in that role within Springfield.
@@myhatmygandhi6217The point is that the 'role' itself has aged, in real life. It doesn't function as a trope the same way with the show's un-aging cast now decades further removed from Vietnam.
I don't think it really mattered. Skinner being a Vietnam vet was a common thing. I think Herman is just simply too creepy without the fun. When Fat Tony is less intimidating, you know you got a character that's too scary.
@@emberfist8347 True. But he was depicted as older than dirt from the start, I think, even though a WWII veteran could have been as young as his early 60s, when the character first appeared.
I actually really liked Herman because of his seriousness, Snake, Moe, and Sideshow Bob are 'threatening,' but at the end of the day they still joke around, Herman, Herman will just shoot you, no laugh track. I agree with you that this makes him not fit into the dynamic of the show, but its still interesting.
Herman would be good as the Simpsons "big bad". I actually like that his a more serious and sinister character to me that makes him a very unique character compared to the other villains even if he has a lot traits and aspects other characters have.
I kind of wish they made him more like a general version of Sideshow Bob, except not a guy planning to murder someone but those conspirators that could have been a foil to the more world weary lisa like Sideshow is to Bart.
Thats the thing though. When you introduce one serious character into a world of comedy it kills the joke. He can't be a straight man cause he is too unstable, he can't be a serious villain becuase he doesn't go big enough. He is just a common thug (my opinion). He is full of paranoia and just doesn't like people. If there is any redeeming quality to him he will loose it at the end of the episode becuase he doesn't get attached to anyone. This doesn't make him a good villain, it makes him a background character, a thug type character. If the show used him more often to fill villainous roles then the show would have to change to suit him, the show would have to become serious. TL;DR: I could see him being a villain on CSI Miami, but never a villain on The Simpsons.
I always wondered and seemed strange to me that almost every character in the show is re used in the background or something if not poorly draw, only the the sitter thief and the guy Homer hired and later got kissed by him when he ascended in the powerplant by having hair with minoxidil seem to not appear again
Lassi Kinnunen there’s an episode where marge turns into a hoarder and takes all her stuff and then cat lady turns back to normal and speaks normal. But then she wants her stuff back. Reset
When I was a kid, my grandpa had a buddy (Vietnam vet) who ran a small military collectibles shop that I used to go with him to (my grandfather was a WW2 vet) and this guy was basically a two-armed version of Herman. He actually was a great guy, gave me lots of books about history and old military items to play war with, and the shop kind of became a hangout for local vets. It was fun to sit around and hear all the old guys share stories while they smoked cigars and make comments about this and that at the random piece of field gear or helmet that came in for sale or trade. But much like Herman- there were moments where even as a 10-12 year old you sat and went "oooooooohhh-kaaayyy..." and there was a rifle or grenade or two hidden around that shop that may have not been copacetic with the state and may have been of "mysterious" origins. I actually miss that place and times. My grandfather is gone, as is the shop owner now...sad.
because that is the shady thing those old stores did the legal stuff was just a front to sell the expensive illegal stuff out the back like the episode where apu sold fireworks out the back of his store
Personally I quite like herman. I think we could have an all out simpsons episode about him, because he seems resourceful and sketchy enough to be a really good antagonist. Also I'd argue in the Movie, he could have had a few good scenes, just because he is well enough equipped to survive the dome, no issues.
I'd also argue Fat Tony also kinda steals the "shady dealings" character. Why have some random character running illegal wears when you can use Tony, who is a part of organized crime and can be used to parody the mafia?
Okay, Fat Tony and crew ARE parodies of the mob, but my point still stands; why use some random one armed guy running criminal syndicates when you already have a criminal syndicate?
Nice one, completely forgot about Fat Tony. I feel like he would probably be the villain of The Springfield Connection (maybe merge the two characters) if they did the episode today.
sideshow bob played by a famous actor...fat toney played by a famous actor..moe played by hank...the you got harry shearer doing a bush parody of a war vet in herman who isn't even as entertaining or shady hate filled petty as snake bob moe or burns....and in terms of shop owners apu mo and comic book guy have him beat so yeah.. what point does he have then?..every idea possible with him can be written better with the other characters
honestly I feel the best ways to use Herman is by playing on his darker nature, either by having him be a more serious antagonist comparedd to most villains in the simpsons, or just by being a rather dark and unsettling straight man to the usual antics. He could also act as a middleman between criminal characters, you know, a sort of 'set up' character. One could also play on his shadiness more to make him more of a habitual liar or play up his inhinged side for darkhumour. and of course, arm jokes.
I do agree with you on him being a straight man some of the antagonist. I think he could work with sideshow bob, snake or hell make him a weapons dealer with fat tony and his mafia
"What, you're all selling fake jeans? I have to tell everybody!" "Slow down there Homer." (Homer stops running and starts to slowly walk to the door.) "How about you come to a complete stop."
In addition: Fat Tony. Fat Tony basically has all the shadiness you need, can get away with being a serious villain when necessary, plus is overtly mob. When you have Fat Tony, Herman just seems too vague to be a useful criminal character. But I think it mostly comes down to characterization. Plenty of Simpsons characters are unhinged, especially Moe and Mr. Burns and ESPECIALLY Sideshow Bob, but Herman never came across as the FUN kind of unhinged. He doesn't have a soft side, he doesn't have personal goals, and his personality is constantly stand-offish--given how they presented him there was no way to make him affable. The only way I would see to rescue his character would basically be to change his character. He'd need to be given something or someone to care about, or at the very least be given some kind of situation that's in total contrast to his personality (like you constantly see with Snake). Basically, they took his premise as Shady Arms Dealer way too seriously. So my changes: Arms dealer to pawn shop owner. Pawn shop is much more narratively useful, can still involve weaponry, and is similarly shady. Some of his goods might be outright fenced. If he's going to be ambiguously ex-military, play it up. Not just with his arm, make his entire past multiple choice. Constantly referencing things he may or may not really have been a part of, occasionally obvious fabrications. Basically you get yourself a habitual liar who ends up getting away with it because he is useful. His utility should be his positive trait. He has a plethora of skills and tools (some imaginary, but he'll often claim he has the skills) that he's willing to aid with for a price or for favors. It ends up being how he keeps out of jail, because he's frustratingly more competent than the police (or at least more devious). And you could give him additional traits that contrast with his main demeanor. Like being unusually friendly with children when he's intimidating to adults and his business should exclude children anyway. In hindsight this was kinda obvious how to improve the character, but I wonder if part of the issue was that he was introduced in season 1, the season where they were trying hard to be grounded like a real sitcom, rather than look for the long term utility of characters in comedy.
I love that idea! Herman Hermann could have some use. Even a bit of a rivalry would help Moe smuggles endagered animals Herman could be an animal lover Make him Vegan just as an oddity. As a gun nut, if they ask "do you hunt?", he could say something like "Only the most dangerous prey." I do think that they should keep it iffy on his military service, maybe he was black ops, maybe he is one of those test subjects, maybe he got kicked out of boot camp after a week... maybe he was a government agent and went rogue? So many options to keep it interesting with stories and jokes.
"Like being unusually friendly with children when he's intimidating to adults..." Did you get some of that idea from "Falling Down" (1993) which Michael Douglas starred in as "D-Fens?" His character never did hate kids, he was just angry with adults who wronged him in one way or another.
@@101Volts Haha, not that specifically, just something along those lines. The character would still clearly need some edge in order to be viable for social commentary, it's just that "being an arms dealer" is already near maximally edgy, so I figured "friendly to children" might make him more open to interacting with Bart, and also provide comedic contrast with the Arms Dealer motif. But in general after writing the original comment I've started to think "Herman didn't really have any friends" as his main problem. Moe was always kinda dark, especially early in the show, but it was softened because he was friends with Barney and Homer and that was generally enough to ensure he wasn't a total drag on the comedy
I always think of him as either one of those Vietnam vets who never moved on and does tons of drugs, or as just your typical conspiracy theorist doomsday prepper. So it's fitting that you don't see him often, because those kinds of people usually live in the shadow of society. But when they need him he has his place.
Yeah I think the Vietnam thing was part of why he fell out of style. It gets kinda wired when you realize he and Skinner would be in there 70s. Vietnam references don't age well 30 years later.
@@ig-8887 Weirdly enough, if the show had a realistic timeline that evolved over time, Skinner would now canonically be a vet of the Iraq War. Feels surreal when you think about it like that.
@@ig-8887 yeah. its like how Granpa's original references had him sorta being wwi vet age and him being in around his 40's? in wwii - a platoon leader. But then he became a young green rookie and born between the wars. Next he'll be Korea. If The Simpsons keeps going the way it is, it wont be too long before he becomes a Vietnam vet. Its strange ya know - ya grow up with 'the grizzled 'Nam vet' trope. There's a decent gap there (relative to the US) in the 80's where they didn't really have an active war going on so there is going to have to be a generational jump in the 'grizzled vet' trope from 70's Nam vet to 40's Gulf vet. They are still playing out Rambo....
Herman just seems deeply disturbed and I kinda like his role. All the other crazy/villain characters joke around and are more comedic but he seems like a real and dark interpretation of someone deeply deranged. After Frank Grimes he may be the most tragic character in the show. Just a random man who lost his arm and his sanity in a more shockingly dark way than any other character
I think the tone of his character is why he works so well... he’s genuinely threatening, which in a series that uses dark comedy so well is a really interesting character to write with. It’s nice to have the elusive creep to balance all of the comedy villains.
Totally agree. Herman carries a more threatening vibe than any of the other villainous characters (Burns, Fat Tony, Snake). He's not silly. I liked his use in 22 Short Stories because it showed he had a level of menace beyond Chief Wiggum's and Snake's capacity to handle. It's hard to imagine Herman being genuinely intimidated by another regular-occurring character in the Simpsons universe.
I think you overlooked something. The later episode shows Herman getting his arm ripped off while trying to hitchhike to piano class. A pianist losing his arm and thus losing the amibility to do something he loves is potentially enough to drive him insane.
Watching this 5 years later I had the same kind of thought. Man got his arm cut off by an accident where the state is at fault, but gets no compensation, loses access to his real passion. Makes perfect sense he ends up a shady, anti-gov prepper type.
The answer to this is probably as simple as it being an unfavourable voice of Harry Shearer. He didn’t like doing Marvin Munroe because it hurt his throat and it’s the probably the same Herman. Why is why they probably limit his speaking parts. If you watch the most recent episode where Herman speaks, Shearer doesn’t use a husky voice like he used to do and it doesn’t really sound like Herman.
Season 18, Episode 9 Homer: Anyone want a thousand dollar bill? Marge: NO!...I mean, yes. Homer: Too late! [burns bill] Homer: Don't worry. I make six of these a year.
In The Simpsons Hit and Run, Herman's antique store appears and his face is even used as a mission icon at one point. But he has no model in game and no lines. Just kinda thought that fit in with everything else here.
I would love to see a series where you go over character histories. Taking seldom used characters like Herman and talking about each of their appearances and what you think works, and doesn't work with the character.
Thanks for the suggestion! I had been tossing around the idea of a character analysis show, but the scope of some of them (with the research and screencapping) was daunting. A lot of Chief Wiggum material to go through. But doing obscure characters would streamline things and be a little more offbeat. (I will write a 20 minute epic someday about why Just Stamp The Ticket Man is the GOAT.)
Not to make it sound like I would do a good job at it, but I did consider making a video series like this at one point. Of course, it's likely never happening, but I would welcome this guy to do it.
PIEGUYRULZ hi pieguyrulz I'm David and I'm a big fan of yours and I myself am now a RUclips reviewer and yeah and I owe it all to you my inspiration for my reviewing thingy
I disagree. Herman always struck me as the kind of far-right conspiracy theorist doomsday prepper type. There's and endless trove of jokes and side stories in that. Plus I know a ton of people like that, so it made Springfield that much more relatable.
@BeTheDeathOfMe Truem but character purposes have always been shifting over the course of the show. it could be a much more relevant direction to take him
@BeTheDeathOfMe True that they didn't have the prepper climate but the survivalist climate was booming, particularly in media. He definitely always struck me as an armchair general, someone who worships the military lifestyle but never served himself. Everything about him just screams poseur to me.
It's true. But tbh the show was run by Fox and there main fanbase is made up of conspiracy nuts. So making a character to mock the major fanbase is not a good idea.
I like Herman, the idea of some paranoid weapon selling dude with a Confederate flag in his shop is just funny at the face of it. But you're correct when you said that aspects of his character can be filled in by other charters such as Moe and Snake. Still thou I like him.
I realized something a while ago, though I'm sure everyone has pointed it out. In the episode Bart Gets Hit By A Car (and I swear in multiple other episodes), when Bart momentarily is dead, the devil both resmbles and sounds like Herman. I find it highly unsual - if he looked like Homer or even Bart I'd understand - they're both shown to be chaotic and antagonistic, so it'd be a silly visual reference to their behaviour; but Herman is a character that we see much less of + know a lot less about.
Only one more comes to mind besides the one I listed, however I feel I should list the episode number. Bart Gets Hit By A Car (Season 2, Episode 10) Homer Vs. Lisa And The 8th Commandment (Season 2, Episode 13) ... Huh. I didn't realize that my examples were so close together.
I like Herman and his shady nature. He's like the evil villain that always has his plans spoiled. I'm more surprised that Gill seemed to have made so many more appearances.
I always assumed Herman was *not* a veteran. As a veteran myself, I've seen these type of guys frequently- the ones who seem to have an explanation for why they didn't serve and compensate by having an exaggerated, and often misplaced, sense of patriotism. I don't mean to pass judgment; it's simply anecdotal from my years in the Army under Dubya (Bush Jr).
I see him more of a paramilitar guy, a man that didn't have official training and just learned by ear in obscure groups. He had quite enough knowledge to allow him had the basics of the war and therefore have his shop.
Herman and Moe would be good together. Moe could ask Herman to turn his back room into a doomsday shelter and then have him keep hanging around the bar talking about conspiracies
I remember reading a Simpsons comic book (can't remember the issue, but I think it was #100) where Herman explains that he lost his arm because he wore it down from drawing so much. Now that I think about it, it would be interesting to talk about Simpson comics since few seem to remember them as well as the show.
I honestly like Herman. I like how they kept him on the backburner even when he didn't come in handy much. I like his limited uses and I like how they tried fitting him in scenarios whenever he would work. It's always nice to see him, and the writers seem to like him too. I wish other characters got this type of usage on the show, like Ruth Powers. Who is only a background character after an episode in season 4 playing a minor role and getting her own full episode with Marge in Season 5.
When I was a kid I had Herman (or as I called him back then, "one armed gun store owner") as the favorite to shoot Mr. Burns. He hadn't been used very much, he was obviously unhinged, and he just came off as the sort that would do something murderous. The other criminals in the show at that point didn't have that seriousness and Homer/Smithers always felt like red herrings (I mean who would want lovable Homer to turn out to be a killer?). I always liked old Hermy, his contrast in tone actually made him interesting I thought. Personally I think it may have been a blessing in disguise for the writers that they stopped using him because he could very easily have been the staple Neo Nazi of the show that current culture today would freak out over worse than Apu.
A regular, guy, who lost his arm in a tragic mishap, ruining his dream of playing piano, made bitter, and building a world around himself, (which acts as a metaphor) fake military surplus, and counterfeit jeans to explain his circumstances...he never says he's a vet, the show wouldn't have a stolen valor scenario, but Herman would let you assume so based on his appearance, and take any advantage that offered... It is interesting how they throw him in as a flashback, just so they could feature him in the next episode...evidence of the show's lackluster writing these days...
I feel like Herman, and Otto for that matter, are characters straight out of the 80's that proved to have little relevance in the 90's and later. I feel like Herman was supposed to represent a specific kind of Vietnam vet you'd see just around in small town America in the 80's. I think the creators ended up pinning the vietnam vet jokes on Skinner, because he is a more charming character who is easier to connect to the story. As a kid I always thought his "bus window" explanation was more tongue and cheek than gospel, but who knows.
"The key to Springfield has always been Elm Street. The Greeks knew it. The Carthaginians knew it. Now you know it." I like Herman. While his best scenes are in The Springfield Connection and 22 Short Films About Springfield (him being so shady and cold-blooded makes those moments more thrilling), my favourite portrayal of him as a character is in Bart the General. I see Herman as a delusional megalomaniac who spends his time studying war history and collecting a private arsenal of weapons to get an advantage if a new civil war begins or something. What makes this funny is how his preparation either consists of totally irrelevant or completely made-up history trivia (Carthaginians, really?) or is absurdly overkill (keeping a private nuclear bomb in the backyard, making a whole war strategy to throw a 10-year-old with water balloons). Stuff like him having a copy of the Franco-Prussian War's declaration of war at hand adds silly quirkiness to the character. I think he sells those fake items in his store not just to make money but also to pose as a bigger history expert and more important guy than what he is actually is. I'm honestly surprised that they haven't used Herman more to satirize conspiracy theorists, gun right activists, survivalists etc. Those are the sort of groups that I would expect the Simpsons writers being eager to target, and Herman would be perfect for that. Also, if you think Herman is too creepy, how about his unseen friend Zed?
I believe Zed is more like his brother or cousin than anything else to be honest. But still, you pointed very well out that, no matter how serious he may seem, he still has (very) occasional silliness, and that is yet another reason to like him as a character.
I like to blame this on Disco Stu. See, Disco Stu got Herman to go dancing. While doing the dance with the pointing (the John Travolta one) there was a freak accident with a razor sharp ceiling fan. Herman never danced again. Stu was stricken with grief and tried to dance away the pain. They haven't spoken to each other since.
I think Hermann works well as the unhinged, paranoid veteran conspiracy/doomsday guy, but I see your point about his niche being covered by other characters. Hell, Skinner himself already pulls off the veteran with a traumatic past pretty well, and it's made funnier in comparison with his overly-serious role as a school principle.
I remember thinking, during the swap meet scene, that he seemed to have a sympathetic look on his face when Skinner tried on his old POW helmet. I always just figured he was Skinner's opposite. For all the jokes at Seymour's expense, he came home from 'Nam, and for the most part picked up where he left off. Herman? Yeah he's still over there, and has a constant physical reminder. At the end of the day that makes him a bit of a dark character for the show.
I've always pictured him to be an essential archetype of american society, extremist beliefs, gun fanatic, traumatized veteran and conspiracy theorist just as much as the plot or joke needs it. Maybe as a loner, more urban equivalent to Clethus.
Fact is, there's a creepiness and harshness in his character that sits uneasily with the 'feel' of the show. Local Oddball that seems uneasy with the general upbeat nature of the show.
I guess he was just a relic of the early days that lost his relevance once the show found it's ground. There's a lot of characters that debuted in the early seasons that fell on the wayside fast, like Bart's other friends Lewis and Richard, or Wendell, or Nelson's cronies. They're just artifacts from a different era. Also I wanted to bring this up with someone for a long time but never had a chance to until now, but I never liked how they made him, well, evil. I mean, yeah, he was always shady and unhinged, but he wasn't a violent criminal who'd be prepared to kill cops or do worse, which is the really baffling direction they took him in on The Springfield Connect and 22 Short Stories. I mean, he wasn't much of a character, but that felt like character assassination to me, and I have no idea why they did that. He was kinda likeable and entertaining in his first appearance where he helped Bart with his bully problem.
I think Herman's whole insanity could be played well. I think he's generally the reason why Bart the General works, as having this insane military nut plot a strategic course to throw water balloons at a bully is genuinely funny and makes the episode much better. He is relatively serious most of the time, but I think he could work in being completely loony in situations that're otherwise pretty tame. I mean it's like Batman, you put this big gruff man in a mundane situation like watering plants and it's so absurd that the contrast kinda writes itself. Then again, considering how tied to his military antique shop he is, it makes sense why he really fell off.
No discussion on his uncanny resemblance to THE DEVIL character??? I thought that would be a major talking point of this video but it's not even mentioned. In season 2 the Devil looks and sounds just like Herman, and this is in a non Halloween episode. All of the evil actions Herman displays and his penchant for war; it's possible he is a living embodiment of The Prince of Darkness himself.
I like Herman, I get people wanted the Simpsons to be more lighthearted however Herman gave the show more of a dark, unhinged and dangerous element. Also 7:24 Herman doesn't need to be in the military, he's closer to a Dale Gribble character but with more of a criminal element. There's people that have a fascination with guns that like to dress up with military gear like hunters or gun enthusiast. Also i like Herman as a character and wished they kept him, it gave the Simpsons a little more
He just fits the stereotype of the "crazy army obsessed civilian who didnt actually go to war" too much. Maybe he spent a little time in the reserves at best. Maybe he really wanted to be military and his lack of arm kept him out which caused him to be one of those people who takes military obsession too extremely
It's interesting what can dub do to a character. I remember in czech version, when he sees Bart, he greets him by saying "Sieg Heil, mein junge!" which is literally a nazi greeting; mein junge means "my boy". And when Bart asks him how he lost his arm, he says he lost it while doing nazi salute from a bus, which makes Bart look of discomfort very obvious. I always assumed he was in Hitlerjugend, and after war, he fled to USA to start new life, but not really forgetting about it. It's not really something that is played with alot in Czech version, and obviously various dubs put jokes that make sense in their language or culture, but it definitely makes you see him much worse than he is, especially with all things that were said in video.
I always assumed that Herman was a Vietnam Vet, which is why he's so shady; he's been so desensitized, disillusioned, and disenfranchised since the war and the loss of his arm, that he ultimately has lost his moral scope. He does what he does for his own survival. A guy with one arm can't actually compete in the economy, so Herman has to augment his income with shady activities like his phony antiques and his pants rink. But I also think that - most likely due to PTSD - Herman has become a little unhinged, to the point where he doesn't recognize what is and isn't Combat vs. Socially Acceptable behavior. Like when he takes Wiggum and Snake hostage. I figured the reason why he was eventually phased out was because, over time, the Vietnam war stopped being relevant, which would've made his character seem dated. It wouldn't make sense to just say he was in the War in Iraq because that had started long after his character was introduced. But like you said; it was a general assumption. But me personally; I actually find Herman's segment from 22 Short Films to be quite interesting. In fact, I almost wish there was a follow-up to this, or better yet, have this be its own episode. I felt like it could've provided a lot of much-needed insight to Herman's character; and as the situation evolved, we would learn more about his motivations - why he's so shady, so unhinged, how he lost his arm, and what would lead him to do this. I guess I'm a guy that just has to know the "Why?"
May I just say there is a brief possible reference you could have gone to... In Marge on the Lam, Homer got his arm stuck in a vending machine Carl said "I heard someone lost an arm in there" and you see an arm ripped off and stripped to the bone. Now it's not specifically mentioned to be his arm but it's still a possible link.
I don’t LOVE Herman, but he’s actually a character I’m quite fond of the more I think on it. I like how (until The Simpson’s seasonal rot) the event that caused him to lose his arm was never shown, leaving the audience to create a scenario for themselves. And this arm scenario I believe is actually a microcosm of Herman’s appeal. He is engulfed by a constant feeling of unease and we know almost nothing about him. He’s not a super villain, he instead keeps a low profile and only commits morally ambiguous acts under a modicum of protection. I also like the ex-military backstory a lot because of how downplayed it is as well, leading to many Easter eggs that take the form of his store Knickknacks to possibly allude to a more clear cut background.
I always assumed Herman and the nasty babysitter were related. Was that ever mentioned in the show? I feel like I've seen it mentioned somewhere. Aside from physical resemblances, they have similar character traits. I love this series, always nice to see new uploads from you. Also, I agree with the character breakdown episodes. There's so much to delve into! It's exciting.
4:13 I expect that Herman's origin story flashback was there to remind viewers of his existence and introduce the character to people who may not have seen his earlier appearances. "Remember this guy? Good, now we can use him without having to reintroduce him again."
Herman struck me as survivalist/militia movement type, which you saw all over the place in the 80s and early 90s. Probably has the entire back catalogue of Soldier of Fortune and Paladin Press in his basement next to the illegal machine gun parts. One of those sorts of people who were never actually in the military but sorround themselves with military paraphenalia.
I think the problem with his character is to two fold, one: the relic part you said, especially since there hasn't been a proper war in a long time, since that's where his character archtype derives from, wether he was fought in war or not. And second: he is too real of a character to put in a light hearted context most of the time, is was fine at the start of the show when the world was somewhat grounded in reality, but as it got crazy, characters needed to adapt to the new tone, which they couldn't do with such an intrinsically dark and twisted character.
I didn't know the...uh...subtext behind Herman's scene in 22 Short Films until recently which, i admit, makes things a little more uncomfortable. However, he says something along the lines of "When Zed arrives the party will begin" Zed being the character he's representing on this Pulp Fiction parody. You could use this line to claim Herman was not going to...to do that, but he still tied them up.
When I first saw him in 22 Short Films about Springfield I thought he was a 1-time character who just happened to share a voice actor with Ned Flanders because he was available
I think the fact that he appears so sparingly is the thing that makes Herman interesting. He pops up and you think "Oh look, it's Herman, haven't seen him in a while." Then he disappears again and you forget about him until the next time.
I think the specific type of authority figure portrayed by Herman is totally foreign to younger people. I remember a few Vietnam vets growing up that were…damaged in similar ways, but I dunno if anyone younger than millennial would identify with him.
It's probably been said, but episode "Looking for Mr Goodbart" which aired April 30 this year, Herman has a brief appearance. In a parody of Pokemon Go, Homer and many other residents of Springfield go to a graveyard to catch a monster, and among them is Herman. While he doesn't do anything else in the scene (walks in and walks out), it's intriguing that the wasn't dropped yet as a character. Perhaps it's more of a "blink and you'll miss it" easter egg for those who remember his earlier appearances. I wouldn't have known this without watching the episode by chance on tv. Not yet reported on the Simpsons wiki yet.
I've always liked Herman as a character personally. Not entirely sure why. I feel like what they could've done from the start is make his store less specific and do the military and weapons stuff in the back, given he's already a shady dude. Something like a Pawn Shop as a front would make him able to be used in a lot more scenarios. As-is, I'd imagine he will, rarely, get speaking roles in the future, but only if they need his specific style of character.
What if HERMAN was nelson's father!? (excluding that other guy because pre-season 10 simpsons purity) he has the vest the hair and the cigarette WAKE UP SHEEPLE
I think it's good to have a character like this in the Simpsons, I feel like it adds more legitimacy to the positive tone and silliness of many of the other characters.
Jackson DeStefano I do find it weird when people bring up that connection as some kind of "gotcha" to the idea that Pixar is original. Like they've never claimed they were the first to come up with ideas like "toys come to life" or "anthropomorphising you mind's traits"
Jackson DeStefano I got what you mean there, and I meant my comment to be talking about the broader discourse, you excluded. Sorry for not communicating that
They did use him as a visual pun in Martin's school fund raiser casino, Herman was playing the slot machine, slot machines are also known as one arm bandits.
He's supposed to represent the Bitter Crackpot 'Nam Vet trope that stopped being a thing for most people around y2k (not unlike The Simpsons), probably due to ageing, gulf war vets, prescription opioids and PTSD being better understood keeping guys like that off the streets and out of peoples everyday lives.
The problem with Herman is that his character is so specific, nothing can be done with him outside of his shop. I mean really, other than mentioning his arm, there's no story you could write him in. Where most simpsons characters started off simple bu had layers added to them, Herman was, and still is, Overly-complicated and boring.
I like herman in that poker game..what makes apu moe skinner work is they were friends with homer..herman could be written that way to but just wasn't..so he wouldn't casually hang out with the gang...
Unless they were to confirm his military service. Then you could have a Skinner-like character, but perhaps offering different flashbacks or maybe he could be from the Korean War or another conflict?
They should do a kind of "Bonnie and Clyde" type parody with herman and snake. That could give him a bigger role, fit his character, and give him a purpose, being a sidekick.
My mother was an ER nurse and treated a child who lost his arm hanging it out a school bus window. So it can happen. And having an ER nurse as a mother, my brother and I had a weird list of things we couldn’t enjoy because they caused injuries in other kids, like we couldn’t eat Pringles out of those cans in the 80s, we had to put them in a bowl. We also weren’t allowed to chew gum or have those snap bracelets or play lawn darts. Oddly enough, my brother and I both played dangerous sports (he played football and I took riding lessons) and she never made us wear helmets when riding a bike
I can't remember the episode. Maybe same season. Ms. K. told the children to keep hands in bus and reminded them about the story about the boy that lost his hand. I think that kid was Herman. So, if he lost his arm as a kid, he did not serve. He would not be fit to.
He's obviously modeled after a vietnam vet trope, which was already losing cultural relevancy by the 90s. a soldier that never left the war is perma relevant in america, but the shape and sound of what that soldier looks and sounds like now is totally different than one molded by vietnam. The character basically appears again in South Park in the form of Ned Gerblanski.
humb marines ibarra Again I think RealJim's point that they were able to create a funnier joke with a different character and set-up answers that. His antique store doesn't quite fit and his character wouldn't have been as funny in the scene as the deadpan Jewish guy
I think they wanted a gag where Homer actually has to obey the law and wait. Herman strikes me as the kind of guy who would be willing wave that rule if the price was right...
I have a theory that Herman is related to Lucille Botzicewski (sp), aka the Babysitter Bandit. They both have similar character models (that season 1 aesthetic) and both are small time criminals. Both are rarely seen (although Heeman is a top billed star compared to Lucille’s one off (so far) early appearance.
Herman was a Vietnam war vet type character like Lt Dan from Forrest Gump. That was a common and well known archetype in the early 90's but it's not really relevant in the zombie simpsons era.
I know I’m late to the party but I’d also like to add that the Simpson’s no longer uses characters who smoke or uses guns. Idk why.... but can you honestly remember the last time a Simpson’s character pulled a gun on someone? Or it could be the fact that they don’t want to show old military people in a negative light. 🤷🏾♀️
I don't really like Herman. I kinda think he is a big creep. But I find him to be an interesting character for the show, someone who exists in a space where no one else belongs. He isn't like Dr. Marvin Monroe, where he just falls off the face of the earth completely. But he isn't like Mr. Largo, who is used very very sparingly, but still pops up from time to time. Herman is like this relic character that the writers decided they didn't want to use, but still refuse to discard him completely. He kinda hangs around in the background, as this reminder to the early days. He's a character everyone knows, but have participated in such a tiny percentage of episodes.
...And I kinda prefer him this way. Please, no Herman-centric episode in Season 30, I'm not asking for that. :p
Something similar happens in South Park, there are characters that had some relevance in the first seasons and today, or they are dead or they make cameos in the background.
why don't you make a video on marvin monroe?
TheRealJims Please please please do an episode about snake! He's great plus he served time with Bob! and he has a cool origin story in that not so great episode where he was an archaeologist ooo and he stole Mr burns's girlfriend! Cool guy
TheRealJims please do more Homer centric mysteries!
It's funny you mention South Park, because Herman does kinda feel like a character who would be on that show. He's a little too dark and weird for The Simpsons, but he would probably work better on South Park.
And they replaced Herman's role with...oh, let's say...Moe.
Good then. I love moe
@BocoCorwin
Moe I think he meant by "harmless political action"!
He kind of got split up through multiple characters. Moe, Cleetus, Doctor Frink, uh… Krusty? I dunno, I don’t really watch the Simpsons, nor have I ever been that big of a fan, but as a base level comparison, that’s who I’d put under his umbrella.
Why are you watching this video then@@DCBiscuit
@@VEE0034
A man isn’t allowed to get interested in things?
I actually like the fact that there are characters that are hardly seen. It gives the Simpsons world more depth, makes it seem more realistic... in real life, there are people who don't play a major role in your life, and you may not see them for years at a time, but you see them every once in a while.
Agree. One of the major issues with the Simpsons as the years went on is that everyone became friends with everyone else. (e.g. Krusty was no longer just the clown on local TV, etc.) Springfield became an unrealistically small city.
A bit like my father
The guy's practically a shutin, its in character for him to never show up anywhere
@@rob-merica Yeah I’ve thought for ages and you’ve worded it perfectly. I think it’s why, in comparison a show like South Park hasn’t quite run out of ideas as fast as the Simpsons. Even though South Park is supposed to be a smaller town than Springfield, its characters all exist very separate from each other and it focuses on many families instead of one. So it hasn’t really resorted to “What if this character had to live with main character” or “What if these characters hung out with each-other” stories like the Simpsons, which end making the world feel smaller.
Herman's runnng joke was continued in the comics. One of the jokes was that he lost his arm because he used to be a comicbook artist and draw way too much.
the comic always continued small ideas from the show. Even Otto's Busman gets a strip.
i remember that
Come to think of it, Herman does kind of look like one of those weird "obviously not Matt Groening" Matt Groening cameos early Simpsons would sometimes have.
Seeing that kind of reminds me of Dr. S from the spirograph factory in Radioactive Man.
Like a lot of early Simpsons, Herman was a parody of a common trope in 1980's TV, fiction and culture. The dodgy Vietnam Vet was a recurring character you'd find in most American neighbourhoods and in American fiction at the time and he was very much inspired by that. I can see why he fell out of use as by the time we got to the 90's, Vietnam vets reached retirement age and were no longer common sights in average American streets.
The only issue with this is that the Simpsons characters haven't aged, therefore Herman wouldn't have either. So he would still fit perfectly in that role within Springfield.
@@myhatmygandhi6217The point is that the 'role' itself has aged, in real life. It doesn't function as a trope the same way with the show's un-aging cast now decades further removed from Vietnam.
I don't think it really mattered. Skinner being a Vietnam vet was a common thing. I think Herman is just simply too creepy without the fun.
When Fat Tony is less intimidating, you know you got a character that's too scary.
@@SpearcaAnd yet Grandpa is consistently a WWII veteran.
@@emberfist8347 True. But he was
depicted as older than dirt from the start, I think, even though a WWII veteran could have been as young as his early 60s, when the character first appeared.
I actually really liked Herman because of his seriousness, Snake, Moe, and Sideshow Bob are 'threatening,' but at the end of the day they still joke around, Herman, Herman will just shoot you, no laugh track.
I agree with you that this makes him not fit into the dynamic of the show, but its still interesting.
Herman would be good as the Simpsons "big bad". I actually like that his a more serious and sinister character to me that makes him a very unique character compared to the other villains even if he has a lot traits and aspects other characters have.
I kind of wish they made him more like a general version of Sideshow Bob, except not a guy planning to murder someone but those conspirators that could have been a foil to the more world weary lisa like Sideshow is to Bart.
Thats the thing though. When you introduce one serious character into a world of comedy it kills the joke. He can't be a straight man cause he is too unstable, he can't be a serious villain becuase he doesn't go big enough. He is just a common thug (my opinion). He is full of paranoia and just doesn't like people. If there is any redeeming quality to him he will loose it at the end of the episode becuase he doesn't get attached to anyone. This doesn't make him a good villain, it makes him a background character, a thug type character. If the show used him more often to fill villainous roles then the show would have to change to suit him, the show would have to become serious.
TL;DR: I could see him being a villain on CSI Miami, but never a villain on The Simpsons.
@@hobossuck2 so you want The Simpsons to become CSI Miami? Yeah, no thanks.
I agree, Herman is the most serious character in the simpsons
Can't even use him as a villain either because of Sideshow Bob, probably the same reason they never brought the babysitter bandit back.
Ah Mr Bundy a man of taste I see
I always wondered and seemed strange to me that almost every character in the show is re used in the background or something if not poorly draw, only the the sitter thief and the guy Homer hired and later got kissed by him when he ascended in the powerplant by having hair with minoxidil seem to not appear again
Astute observation - never even thought about the Babysitter Bandit
If they used both they wouldn’t have burned through the content people liked so fast.
ello you
I always found the cat lady to be the most mysterious character. Her backstory is kinda sad
The problem with Crazy Cat Lady was that the writers insisted on using her long after she stopped being funny.
She is crazy, old throws cats at people and spews gibberish.
What more is there to love?
I think they did a good job giving her a story arc. At least it's the only story arc that isn't full of plotholes.
@@leow3696 what is her backstory?
Lassi Kinnunen there’s an episode where marge turns into a hoarder and takes all her stuff and then cat lady turns back to normal and speaks normal. But then she wants her stuff back. Reset
When I was a kid, my grandpa had a buddy (Vietnam vet) who ran a small military collectibles shop that I used to go with him to (my grandfather was a WW2 vet) and this guy was basically a two-armed version of Herman. He actually was a great guy, gave me lots of books about history and old military items to play war with, and the shop kind of became a hangout for local vets. It was fun to sit around and hear all the old guys share stories while they smoked cigars and make comments about this and that at the random piece of field gear or helmet that came in for sale or trade. But much like Herman- there were moments where even as a 10-12 year old you sat and went "oooooooohhh-kaaayyy..." and there was a rifle or grenade or two hidden around that shop that may have not been copacetic with the state and may have been of "mysterious" origins. I actually miss that place and times. My grandfather is gone, as is the shop owner now...sad.
You must carry his legacy for the next generations.
@@seronymus by selling illegal or stolen from other Countries weapons
because that is the shady thing those old stores did the legal stuff was just a front to sell the expensive illegal stuff out the back like the episode where apu sold fireworks out the back of his store
@@basillah7650 yes.
You just gave more airtime to Herman than he'd ever received on the show combined.
Personally I quite like herman.
I think we could have an all out simpsons episode about him, because he seems resourceful and sketchy enough to be a really good antagonist.
Also I'd argue in the Movie, he could have had a few good scenes, just because he is well enough equipped to survive the dome, no issues.
The movie would have just ended up being a parody of CSI Miami and there was way to much of that back then.
I'd also argue Fat Tony also kinda steals the "shady dealings" character. Why have some random character running illegal wears when you can use Tony, who is a part of organized crime and can be used to parody the mafia?
Used to?
Okay, Fat Tony and crew ARE parodies of the mob, but my point still stands; why use some random one armed guy running criminal syndicates when you already have a criminal syndicate?
Fat Tony should appear more often
Nice one, completely forgot about Fat Tony. I feel like he would probably be the villain of The Springfield Connection (maybe merge the two characters) if they did the episode today.
sideshow bob played by a famous actor...fat toney played by a famous actor..moe played by hank...the you got harry shearer doing a bush parody of a war vet in herman who isn't even as entertaining or shady hate filled petty as snake bob moe or burns....and in terms of shop owners apu mo and comic book guy have him beat so yeah.. what point does he have then?..every idea possible with him can be written better with the other characters
honestly I feel the best ways to use Herman is by playing on his darker nature, either by having him be a more serious antagonist comparedd to most villains in the simpsons, or just by being a rather dark and unsettling straight man to the usual antics.
He could also act as a middleman between criminal characters, you know, a sort of 'set up' character.
One could also play on his shadiness more to make him more of a habitual liar or play up his inhinged side for darkhumour. and of course, arm jokes.
I do agree with you on him being a straight man some of the antagonist. I think he could work with sideshow bob, snake or hell make him a weapons dealer with fat tony and his mafia
"What, you're all selling fake jeans? I have to tell everybody!"
"Slow down there Homer."
(Homer stops running and starts to slowly walk to the door.)
"How about you come to a complete stop."
Stop entirely...why must people ruin the flow of a joke?
In addition: Fat Tony. Fat Tony basically has all the shadiness you need, can get away with being a serious villain when necessary, plus is overtly mob. When you have Fat Tony, Herman just seems too vague to be a useful criminal character.
But I think it mostly comes down to characterization. Plenty of Simpsons characters are unhinged, especially Moe and Mr. Burns and ESPECIALLY Sideshow Bob, but Herman never came across as the FUN kind of unhinged. He doesn't have a soft side, he doesn't have personal goals, and his personality is constantly stand-offish--given how they presented him there was no way to make him affable.
The only way I would see to rescue his character would basically be to change his character. He'd need to be given something or someone to care about, or at the very least be given some kind of situation that's in total contrast to his personality (like you constantly see with Snake). Basically, they took his premise as Shady Arms Dealer way too seriously.
So my changes:
Arms dealer to pawn shop owner. Pawn shop is much more narratively useful, can still involve weaponry, and is similarly shady. Some of his goods might be outright fenced.
If he's going to be ambiguously ex-military, play it up. Not just with his arm, make his entire past multiple choice. Constantly referencing things he may or may not really have been a part of, occasionally obvious fabrications. Basically you get yourself a habitual liar who ends up getting away with it because he is useful.
His utility should be his positive trait. He has a plethora of skills and tools (some imaginary, but he'll often claim he has the skills) that he's willing to aid with for a price or for favors. It ends up being how he keeps out of jail, because he's frustratingly more competent than the police (or at least more devious).
And you could give him additional traits that contrast with his main demeanor. Like being unusually friendly with children when he's intimidating to adults and his business should exclude children anyway.
In hindsight this was kinda obvious how to improve the character, but I wonder if part of the issue was that he was introduced in season 1, the season where they were trying hard to be grounded like a real sitcom, rather than look for the long term utility of characters in comedy.
rickpgriffin I think Herman would work if they used him like a version of Dale Gribble in King of the Hill.
I love that idea! Herman Hermann could have some use.
Even a bit of a rivalry would help
Moe smuggles endagered animals
Herman could be an animal lover
Make him Vegan just as an oddity.
As a gun nut, if they ask "do you hunt?", he could say something like "Only the most dangerous prey."
I do think that they should keep it iffy on his military service, maybe he was black ops, maybe he is one of those test subjects, maybe he got kicked out of boot camp after a week... maybe he was a government agent and went rogue? So many options to keep it interesting with stories and jokes.
"Like being unusually friendly with children when he's intimidating to adults..."
Did you get some of that idea from "Falling Down" (1993) which Michael Douglas starred in as "D-Fens?" His character never did hate kids, he was just angry with adults who wronged him in one way or another.
@@101Volts Haha, not that specifically, just something along those lines. The character would still clearly need some edge in order to be viable for social commentary, it's just that "being an arms dealer" is already near maximally edgy, so I figured "friendly to children" might make him more open to interacting with Bart, and also provide comedic contrast with the Arms Dealer motif. But in general after writing the original comment I've started to think "Herman didn't really have any friends" as his main problem. Moe was always kinda dark, especially early in the show, but it was softened because he was friends with Barney and Homer and that was generally enough to ensure he wasn't a total drag on the comedy
@@richardorta8960 You know, he is an insectivoran, so there is an decent chance that he is an animal lover.
I always think of him as either one of those Vietnam vets who never moved on and does tons of drugs, or as just your typical conspiracy theorist doomsday prepper. So it's fitting that you don't see him often, because those kinds of people usually live in the shadow of society. But when they need him he has his place.
Yeah I think the Vietnam thing was part of why he fell out of style. It gets kinda wired when you realize he and Skinner would be in there 70s. Vietnam references don't age well 30 years later.
He looks pretty young, so I'm assuming it's the latter. Than again, maybe his father was a vet and tried to pass his ideals down to him or something.
@@ig-8887 Weirdly enough, if the show had a realistic timeline that evolved over time, Skinner would now canonically be a vet of the Iraq War. Feels surreal when you think about it like that.
@@ig-8887 yeah. its like how Granpa's original references had him sorta being wwi vet age and him being in around his 40's? in wwii - a platoon leader. But then he became a young green rookie and born between the wars. Next he'll be Korea. If The Simpsons keeps going the way it is, it wont be too long before he becomes a Vietnam vet.
Its strange ya know - ya grow up with 'the grizzled 'Nam vet' trope. There's a decent gap there (relative to the US) in the 80's where they didn't really have an active war going on so there is going to have to be a generational jump in the 'grizzled vet' trope from 70's Nam vet to 40's Gulf vet. They are still playing out Rambo....
Herman just seems deeply disturbed and I kinda like his role. All the other crazy/villain characters joke around and are more comedic but he seems like a real and dark interpretation of someone deeply deranged. After Frank Grimes he may be the most tragic character in the show. Just a random man who lost his arm and his sanity in a more shockingly dark way than any other character
I could see Herman being unable to serve due to losing his arm, and that might have embittered him and led to some of his behavior
He was already wearing a medal in the flashback though.
@@Bacxaber Maybe the medal is for piano playing.
I think the tone of his character is why he works so well... he’s genuinely threatening, which in a series that uses dark comedy so well is a really interesting character to write with. It’s nice to have the elusive creep to balance all of the comedy villains.
Totally agree. Herman carries a more threatening vibe than any of the other villainous characters (Burns, Fat Tony, Snake). He's not silly. I liked his use in 22 Short Stories because it showed he had a level of menace beyond Chief Wiggum's and Snake's capacity to handle. It's hard to imagine Herman being genuinely intimidated by another regular-occurring character in the Simpsons universe.
I think you overlooked something. The later episode shows Herman getting his arm ripped off while trying to hitchhike to piano class.
A pianist losing his arm and thus losing the amibility to do something he loves is potentially enough to drive him insane.
Interesting idea...
Watching this 5 years later I had the same kind of thought. Man got his arm cut off by an accident where the state is at fault, but gets no compensation, loses access to his real passion.
Makes perfect sense he ends up a shady, anti-gov prepper type.
The answer to this is probably as simple as it being an unfavourable voice of Harry Shearer. He didn’t like doing Marvin Munroe because it hurt his throat and it’s the probably the same Herman. Why is why they probably limit his speaking parts. If you watch the most recent episode where Herman speaks, Shearer doesn’t use a husky voice like he used to do and it doesn’t really sound like Herman.
Here's a Simpsons mystery idea how much does Homer get paid at the power plant.
also... why in an early episode was he driving a forklift when Bart's on an excursion, instead of manning the safety console???
In dounuts
Mike Spearwood that was before he became safety inspector.
Season 18, Episode 9
Homer: Anyone want a thousand dollar bill?
Marge: NO!...I mean, yes.
Homer: Too late!
[burns bill]
Homer: Don't worry. I make six of these a year.
They show a his paycheck at the start of Homer the Vigilante. He gets 362 dollars a week in 90's money.
In The Simpsons Hit and Run, Herman's antique store appears and his face is even used as a mission icon at one point. But he has no model in game and no lines. Just kinda thought that fit in with everything else here.
i was so disappointed by that omg
He is also in The Simpsons Tapped Out
@@nickrustyson8124 At this point, almost everything from Simpsons is in Simpsons Tapped Out
I would love to see a series where you go over character histories. Taking seldom used characters like Herman and talking about each of their appearances and what you think works, and doesn't work with the character.
PIEGUYRULZ!!! It's you! I'm a big fan! And I agree, I personally would love to delve into the backstory of Ol' Gil. Such a tragic, sad character.
Thanks for the suggestion! I had been tossing around the idea of a character analysis show, but the scope of some of them (with the research and screencapping) was daunting. A lot of Chief Wiggum material to go through. But doing obscure characters would streamline things and be a little more offbeat.
(I will write a 20 minute epic someday about why Just Stamp The Ticket Man is the GOAT.)
I would pay good money to see conspiracy theory on the "just stamp the ticket guy" maybe Ned stamped the ticket so he could help in killing maude
Not to make it sound like I would do a good job at it, but I did consider making a video series like this at one point. Of course, it's likely never happening, but I would welcome this guy to do it.
PIEGUYRULZ hi pieguyrulz I'm David and I'm a big fan of yours and I myself am now a RUclips reviewer and yeah and I owe it all to you my inspiration for my reviewing thingy
I disagree. Herman always struck me as the kind of far-right conspiracy theorist doomsday prepper type. There's and endless trove of jokes and side stories in that. Plus I know a ton of people like that, so it made Springfield that much more relatable.
That’s actually a great point.
@BeTheDeathOfMe Truem but character purposes have always been shifting over the course of the show. it could be a much more relevant direction to take him
I think Herman falls more into the super anti-government libertarian side of things politically not far-right but that's just my take.
@BeTheDeathOfMe True that they didn't have the prepper climate but the survivalist climate was booming, particularly in media. He definitely always struck me as an armchair general, someone who worships the military lifestyle but never served himself. Everything about him just screams poseur to me.
It's true. But tbh the show was run by Fox and there main fanbase is made up of conspiracy nuts. So making a character to mock the major fanbase is not a good idea.
I like Herman, the idea of some paranoid weapon selling dude with a Confederate flag in his shop is just funny at the face of it. But you're correct when you said that aspects of his character can be filled in by other charters such as Moe and Snake. Still thou I like him.
same here brother
I realized something a while ago, though I'm sure everyone has pointed it out. In the episode Bart Gets Hit By A Car (and I swear in multiple other episodes), when Bart momentarily is dead, the devil both resmbles and sounds like Herman. I find it highly unsual - if he looked like Homer or even Bart I'd understand - they're both shown to be chaotic and antagonistic, so it'd be a silly visual reference to their behaviour; but Herman is a character that we see much less of + know a lot less about.
ThisUsedToBeACharacterAccount if you find any of the other episodes, let me know!
Only one more comes to mind besides the one I listed, however I feel I should list the episode number.
Bart Gets Hit By A Car (Season 2, Episode 10)
Homer Vs. Lisa And The 8th Commandment (Season 2, Episode 13)
... Huh. I didn't realize that my examples were so close together.
ThisUsedToBeACharacterAccount Huh, I see. Well thank you!
@@Luigifan4ever11
Could you include "The Otto Show" (Season 3, Episode 22) with the giant devil balloon used by Spinal Tap? It looks the same.
Funny coincidence, that was the same episode in which he (kind of) flirted with Marge.
"Questioning someone's military service is kind of yucky" ... it's a Simpson's side character. Don't think Herman will mind.
I like Herman and his shady nature. He's like the evil villain that always has his plans spoiled. I'm more surprised that Gill seemed to have made so many more appearances.
Gil Gundersen
The 'Herman Hermann' name is a (perhaps unintentional) reference to a Nabokov character, if anyone's interested.
I always assumed Herman was *not* a veteran. As a veteran myself, I've seen these type of guys frequently- the ones who seem to have an explanation for why they didn't serve and compensate by having an exaggerated, and often misplaced, sense of patriotism. I don't mean to pass judgment; it's simply anecdotal from my years in the Army under Dubya (Bush Jr).
I see him more of a paramilitar guy, a man that didn't have official training and just learned by ear in obscure groups. He had quite enough knowledge to allow him had the basics of the war and therefore have his shop.
Herman comes off as the sort of guy who would have zero 'proper' military experience, but would join a mercenary group.
Kent Brockman's former co-anchor Scott Christian hasn't been seen or heard since season 5 either.
waterfieldV and Arnie pie in the sky
Arnie Pye is still around actually. Just watch Trust But Clarify and he's in it.
And Arnie Pye started out as Bill Pye in 7G01
Arnie was also named Ernie in at least one episode
Soko the shows writers said that name is a play on "Ernie Pyle", a famous news reporter.
Am I the only one who loves Herman and wished he got more time? He's cool, mysterious and nostalgic.
Definitely with you
Of all places to find a soyteen
WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE ON A SOYSONS VIDEO@@merucrypoison296
If herman lost his arm as he kid he definitely never served. I think he is just one of those guys who are just obsessed with the military
those people are the type of people to yell a swear word in front of his crush to try to be cool
Herman and Moe would be good together. Moe could ask Herman to turn his back room into a doomsday shelter and then have him keep hanging around the bar talking about conspiracies
That would be an interesting episode. Plus, a Simpsons family member would most likely join them too.
@@PrimalBoos Grandpa maybe
I had no idea Herman didn't speak until those two episodes. He was always around, I just never thought about it.
In Czech version Herman says about the loss of his arm: "Remember - never make nazi salute out of the bus window." :D
I remember reading a Simpsons comic book (can't remember the issue, but I think it was #100) where Herman explains that he lost his arm because he wore it down from drawing so much. Now that I think about it, it would be interesting to talk about Simpson comics since few seem to remember them as well as the show.
The reason it was so long for him to be in another episode was because he was in a coma from Milhouse hitting him in the head with a flail.
I honestly like Herman. I like how they kept him on the backburner even when he didn't come in handy much. I like his limited uses and I like how they tried fitting him in scenarios whenever he would work. It's always nice to see him, and the writers seem to like him too. I wish other characters got this type of usage on the show, like Ruth Powers. Who is only a background character after an episode in season 4 playing a minor role and getting her own full episode with Marge in Season 5.
When I was a kid I had Herman (or as I called him back then, "one armed gun store owner") as the favorite to shoot Mr. Burns. He hadn't been used very much, he was obviously unhinged, and he just came off as the sort that would do something murderous. The other criminals in the show at that point didn't have that seriousness and Homer/Smithers always felt like red herrings (I mean who would want lovable Homer to turn out to be a killer?). I always liked old Hermy, his contrast in tone actually made him interesting I thought. Personally I think it may have been a blessing in disguise for the writers that they stopped using him because he could very easily have been the staple Neo Nazi of the show that current culture today would freak out over worse than Apu.
Headcanon: Herman never served, he's just one of those guys that LARPs on Reddit all day. That's why he stopped appearing.
A regular, guy, who lost his arm in a tragic mishap, ruining his dream of playing piano, made bitter, and building a world around himself, (which acts as a metaphor) fake military surplus, and counterfeit jeans to explain his circumstances...he never says he's a vet, the show wouldn't have a stolen valor scenario, but Herman would let you assume so based on his appearance, and take any advantage that offered...
It is interesting how they throw him in as a flashback, just so they could feature him in the next episode...evidence of the show's lackluster writing these days...
I feel like Herman, and Otto for that matter, are characters straight out of the 80's that proved to have little relevance in the 90's and later. I feel like Herman was supposed to represent a specific kind of Vietnam vet you'd see just around in small town America in the 80's. I think the creators ended up pinning the vietnam vet jokes on Skinner, because he is a more charming character who is easier to connect to the story. As a kid I always thought his "bus window" explanation was more tongue and cheek than gospel, but who knows.
"The key to Springfield has always been Elm Street. The Greeks knew it. The Carthaginians knew it. Now you know it."
I like Herman. While his best scenes are in The Springfield Connection and 22 Short Films About Springfield (him being so shady and cold-blooded makes those moments more thrilling), my favourite portrayal of him as a character is in Bart the General. I see Herman as a delusional megalomaniac who spends his time studying war history and collecting a private arsenal of weapons to get an advantage if a new civil war begins or something. What makes this funny is how his preparation either consists of totally irrelevant or completely made-up history trivia (Carthaginians, really?) or is absurdly overkill (keeping a private nuclear bomb in the backyard, making a whole war strategy to throw a 10-year-old with water balloons). Stuff like him having a copy of the Franco-Prussian War's declaration of war at hand adds silly quirkiness to the character. I think he sells those fake items in his store not just to make money but also to pose as a bigger history expert and more important guy than what he is actually is.
I'm honestly surprised that they haven't used Herman more to satirize conspiracy theorists, gun right activists, survivalists etc. Those are the sort of groups that I would expect the Simpsons writers being eager to target, and Herman would be perfect for that.
Also, if you think Herman is too creepy, how about his unseen friend Zed?
I believe Zed is more like his brother or cousin than anything else to be honest. But still, you pointed very well out that, no matter how serious he may seem, he still has (very) occasional silliness, and that is yet another reason to like him as a character.
I like that character, I don't think he is uninteresting at all.
Mary or something Maybe he went to jail ?
Nobody like this comment. We need to keep it at 69 likes
He is very predictable and 2 dimensional. He is literally white bread with a gun. Super boring.
@@jasonmnosaj ok. I disagree
Jason Allcreator And shares these strong common traits with many millions & millions of others, in the American population. 👍😉❤️😎
I like to blame this on Disco Stu. See, Disco Stu got Herman to go dancing. While doing the dance with the pointing (the John Travolta one) there was a freak accident with a razor sharp ceiling fan. Herman never danced again. Stu was stricken with grief and tried to dance away the pain. They haven't spoken to each other since.
Herman and Stu are probably my two favorite characters on the show. Yeah, I'd believe that theory.
Interesting...
I think Hermann works well as the unhinged, paranoid veteran conspiracy/doomsday guy, but I see your point about his niche being covered by other characters. Hell, Skinner himself already pulls off the veteran with a traumatic past pretty well, and it's made funnier in comparison with his overly-serious role as a school principle.
I remember thinking, during the swap meet scene, that he seemed to have a sympathetic look on his face when Skinner tried on his old POW helmet. I always just figured he was Skinner's opposite. For all the jokes at Seymour's expense, he came home from 'Nam, and for the most part picked up where he left off. Herman? Yeah he's still over there, and has a constant physical reminder. At the end of the day that makes him a bit of a dark character for the show.
I've always pictured him to be an essential archetype of american society, extremist beliefs, gun fanatic, traumatized veteran and conspiracy theorist just as much as the plot or joke needs it. Maybe as a loner, more urban equivalent to Clethus.
I wish the YES guy would come back
OL Thomas YESS I would also like that
OL Thomas oh yeahhhhhh!
He's based on an old character actor from the 40s who said, "Yes?" just like that. No idea his name.
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssss
His name is Frank Nelson
Fact is, there's a creepiness and harshness in his character that sits uneasily with the 'feel' of the show.
Local Oddball that seems uneasy with the general upbeat nature of the show.
New Simpsons Mysteries? *CLICK*
Please give us more Jims!
Did not expect to see you here.
Nobody expects me
Nobody expects the imperial inquisition
I guess he was just a relic of the early days that lost his relevance once the show found it's ground. There's a lot of characters that debuted in the early seasons that fell on the wayside fast, like Bart's other friends Lewis and Richard, or Wendell, or Nelson's cronies. They're just artifacts from a different era.
Also I wanted to bring this up with someone for a long time but never had a chance to until now, but I never liked how they made him, well, evil. I mean, yeah, he was always shady and unhinged, but he wasn't a violent criminal who'd be prepared to kill cops or do worse, which is the really baffling direction they took him in on The Springfield Connect and 22 Short Stories. I mean, he wasn't much of a character, but that felt like character assassination to me, and I have no idea why they did that. He was kinda likeable and entertaining in his first appearance where he helped Bart with his bully problem.
"Questioning someone's military service is kinda yucky" Most American sentence ever said
It's definitely up there, but something about the US being the great country on earth is probably a more American sentence.
@@NirateGoel something with the word freedom needlessly in it.
@@5hiftyL1v3a That's another. Maybe something with both is even more American.
Or socialism is evil is probably another one to that list.
@@NirateGoel The millions that died because of socialism probably disagree with you
@@EndOfSmallSanctuary97 Hundreds and hundreds of millions have died due to capitalism. Do one.
They should have a Vietnam episode with Herman and Skinner
Herman orchestrated My Lai
Vietnam is too long ago for the floating timeline.
I think Herman's whole insanity could be played well. I think he's generally the reason why Bart the General works, as having this insane military nut plot a strategic course to throw water balloons at a bully is genuinely funny and makes the episode much better. He is relatively serious most of the time, but I think he could work in being completely loony in situations that're otherwise pretty tame. I mean it's like Batman, you put this big gruff man in a mundane situation like watering plants and it's so absurd that the contrast kinda writes itself.
Then again, considering how tied to his military antique shop he is, it makes sense why he really fell off.
No discussion on his uncanny resemblance to THE DEVIL character??? I thought that would be a major talking point of this video but it's not even mentioned. In season 2 the Devil looks and sounds just like Herman, and this is in a non Halloween episode. All of the evil actions Herman displays and his penchant for war; it's possible he is a living embodiment of The Prince of Darkness himself.
I like Herman, I get people wanted the Simpsons to be more lighthearted however Herman gave the show more of a dark, unhinged and dangerous element. Also 7:24 Herman doesn't need to be in the military, he's closer to a Dale Gribble character but with more of a criminal element. There's people that have a fascination with guns that like to dress up with military gear like hunters or gun enthusiast. Also i like Herman as a character and wished they kept him, it gave the Simpsons a little more
In an episode in season 30 called “From Russia without love” Herman makes a long appearance and gets a speaking role
He just fits the stereotype of the "crazy army obsessed civilian who didnt actually go to war" too much. Maybe he spent a little time in the reserves at best. Maybe he really wanted to be military and his lack of arm kept him out which caused him to be one of those people who takes military obsession too extremely
It's interesting what can dub do to a character. I remember in czech version, when he sees Bart, he greets him by saying "Sieg Heil, mein junge!" which is literally a nazi greeting; mein junge means "my boy". And when Bart asks him how he lost his arm, he says he lost it while doing nazi salute from a bus, which makes Bart look of discomfort very obvious. I always assumed he was in Hitlerjugend, and after war, he fled to USA to start new life, but not really forgetting about it. It's not really something that is played with alot in Czech version, and obviously various dubs put jokes that make sense in their language or culture, but it definitely makes you see him much worse than he is, especially with all things that were said in video.
The Herman's Head joke made me love this video before you even got to your point.
i knew somebody else had to have caught that!
I scrolled forever to find this comment. I was wondering if anyone else caught that reference. Man! We're getting old. Lol
Counting mine, this is only the 3rd comment referencing Herman's Head and I've scrolled *a lot* to find it haha
I always assumed that Herman was a Vietnam Vet, which is why he's so shady; he's been so desensitized, disillusioned, and disenfranchised since the war and the loss of his arm, that he ultimately has lost his moral scope. He does what he does for his own survival. A guy with one arm can't actually compete in the economy, so Herman has to augment his income with shady activities like his phony antiques and his pants rink.
But I also think that - most likely due to PTSD - Herman has become a little unhinged, to the point where he doesn't recognize what is and isn't Combat vs. Socially Acceptable behavior. Like when he takes Wiggum and Snake hostage.
I figured the reason why he was eventually phased out was because, over time, the Vietnam war stopped being relevant, which would've made his character seem dated. It wouldn't make sense to just say he was in the War in Iraq because that had started long after his character was introduced.
But like you said; it was a general assumption.
But me personally; I actually find Herman's segment from 22 Short Films to be quite interesting. In fact, I almost wish there was a follow-up to this, or better yet, have this be its own episode.
I felt like it could've provided a lot of much-needed insight to Herman's character; and as the situation evolved, we would learn more about his motivations - why he's so shady, so unhinged, how he lost his arm, and what would lead him to do this.
I guess I'm a guy that just has to know the "Why?"
May I just say there is a brief possible reference you could have gone to...
In Marge on the Lam, Homer got his arm stuck in a vending machine Carl said "I heard someone lost an arm in there" and you see an arm ripped off and stripped to the bone.
Now it's not specifically mentioned to be his arm but it's still a possible link.
Anyone else back after they cast Herman as CAPTAIN AMERICA in their Avengers spoof?
Wasn't the Winter Soldier?
I love your simpsons videos man. Brilliant tone and pace. Rewatch em all the time.
I don’t LOVE Herman, but he’s actually a character I’m quite fond of the more I think on it. I like how (until The Simpson’s seasonal rot) the event that caused him to lose his arm was never shown, leaving the audience to create a scenario for themselves. And this arm scenario I believe is actually a microcosm of Herman’s appeal.
He is engulfed by a constant feeling of unease and we know almost nothing about him. He’s not a super villain, he instead keeps a low profile and only commits morally ambiguous acts under a modicum of protection. I also like the ex-military backstory a lot because of how downplayed it is as well, leading to many Easter eggs that take the form of his store Knickknacks to possibly allude to a more clear cut background.
I always assumed Herman and the nasty babysitter were related. Was that ever mentioned in the show? I feel like I've seen it mentioned somewhere. Aside from physical resemblances, they have similar character traits.
I love this series, always nice to see new uploads from you. Also, I agree with the character breakdown episodes. There's so much to delve into! It's exciting.
Botsukovsky...
hahaha omg, true
Herman is actually Ian from Forgotten Weapons. I love them both.
3:07 I appreciate Jims not trying to be some fancy Frenchman.
4:13 I expect that Herman's origin story flashback was there to remind viewers of his existence and introduce the character to people who may not have seen his earlier appearances. "Remember this guy? Good, now we can use him without having to reintroduce him again."
0:28 "What the heck is going on in Herman's Head?" I see what you did there...
Hardly anyone did, apparently! I guess most people don't remember/know the show.
@@ShinySephiroth1you guys could stop being so mysterious if you’d like…
I swear I thought I was the only one here.... haha
Herman struck me as survivalist/militia movement type, which you saw all over the place in the 80s and early 90s. Probably has the entire back catalogue of Soldier of Fortune and Paladin Press in his basement next to the illegal machine gun parts. One of those sorts of people who were never actually in the military but sorround themselves with military paraphenalia.
I think the problem with his character is to two fold, one: the relic part you said, especially since there hasn't been a proper war in a long time, since that's where his character archtype derives from, wether he was fought in war or not. And second: he is too real of a character to put in a light hearted context most of the time, is was fine at the start of the show when the world was somewhat grounded in reality, but as it got crazy, characters needed to adapt to the new tone, which they couldn't do with such an intrinsically dark and twisted character.
Damn, I lowkey wish they’d adapted that darkness. Might’ve ended up better than what we’ve got today. Oh well
The real world IS getting a lot darker… we might be ready for a comeback, especially if Jean leaves.
I didn't know the...uh...subtext behind Herman's scene in 22 Short Films until recently which, i admit, makes things a little more uncomfortable.
However, he says something along the lines of "When Zed arrives the party will begin" Zed being the character he's representing on this Pulp Fiction parody. You could use this line to claim Herman was not going to...to do that, but he still tied them up.
Herman didn’t effect anything in Homer’s Barbershop Quartet, he was just thrown in there.
When I first saw him in 22 Short Films about Springfield I thought he was a 1-time character who just happened to share a voice actor with Ned Flanders because he was available
I think the fact that he appears so sparingly is the thing that makes Herman interesting. He pops up and you think "Oh look, it's Herman, haven't seen him in a while." Then he disappears again and you forget about him until the next time.
I think the specific type of authority figure portrayed by Herman is totally foreign to younger people. I remember a few Vietnam vets growing up that were…damaged in similar ways, but I dunno if anyone younger than millennial would identify with him.
It's probably been said, but episode "Looking for Mr Goodbart" which aired April 30 this year, Herman has a brief appearance. In a parody of Pokemon Go, Homer and many other residents of Springfield go to a graveyard to catch a monster, and among them is Herman. While he doesn't do anything else in the scene (walks in and walks out), it's intriguing that the wasn't dropped yet as a character. Perhaps it's more of a "blink and you'll miss it" easter egg for those who remember his earlier appearances.
I wouldn't have known this without watching the episode by chance on tv. Not yet reported on the Simpsons wiki yet.
I've always liked Herman as a character personally. Not entirely sure why. I feel like what they could've done from the start is make his store less specific and do the military and weapons stuff in the back, given he's already a shady dude. Something like a Pawn Shop as a front would make him able to be used in a lot more scenarios. As-is, I'd imagine he will, rarely, get speaking roles in the future, but only if they need his specific style of character.
What if HERMAN was nelson's father!? (excluding that other guy because pre-season 10 simpsons purity)
he has the vest
the hair
and the cigarette
WAKE UP SHEEPLE
Wilbur Cobb I had a feeling herman had a kid
"Hey, Herman, why do you have a nuke?"
"Well, you have to nuke something"
But, he helped the regular boys stop Nelson beating them in Bart the General, if that was the case, why would he do that to his own son?
@@Jaminho397 possible early design idea, similar to homer being krusty?
@@wilburcobb8990 possibly
I think it's good to have a character like this in the Simpsons, I feel like it adds more legitimacy to the positive tone and silliness of many of the other characters.
Marge: "What's so funny?"
Lisa: ''Oh, uh, I was just thinking of a joke I saw on Herman's Head. Ha ha ha..."
Marge: "Hmmm"
It's funnier that your picture is Joy from Inside Out, a film with a similar concept to Herman's Head
Jackson DeStefano I do find it weird when people bring up that connection as some kind of "gotcha" to the idea that Pixar is original. Like they've never claimed they were the first to come up with ideas like "toys come to life" or "anthropomorphising you mind's traits"
Harryhenry I wasn't saying it as a gotcha, I was just stating something funny I noticed with the comment.
Jackson DeStefano I got what you mean there, and I meant my comment to be talking about the broader discourse, you excluded. Sorry for not communicating that
They did use him as a visual pun in Martin's school fund raiser casino, Herman was playing the slot machine, slot machines are also known as one arm bandits.
He's supposed to represent the Bitter Crackpot 'Nam Vet trope that stopped being a thing for most people around y2k (not unlike The Simpsons), probably due to ageing, gulf war vets, prescription opioids and PTSD being better understood keeping guys like that off the streets and out of peoples everyday lives.
After 5 years or so I believe ole Timmy and Terry doing stuff in OKC caused him to fade away for awhile.
The problem with Herman is that his character is so specific, nothing can be done with him outside of his shop. I mean really, other than mentioning his arm, there's no story you could write him in.
Where most simpsons characters started off simple bu had layers added to them, Herman was, and still is, Overly-complicated and boring.
I like herman in that poker game..what makes apu moe skinner work is they were friends with homer..herman could be written that way to but just wasn't..so he wouldn't casually hang out with the gang...
He could have been easily written into the episode when Shelby ville stole the lemon tree and when Bart discovers Roosevelt
Unless they were to confirm his military service. Then you could have a Skinner-like character, but perhaps offering different flashbacks or maybe he could be from the Korean War or another conflict?
They should do a kind of "Bonnie and Clyde" type parody with herman and snake. That could give him a bigger role, fit his character, and give him a purpose, being a sidekick.
My mother was an ER nurse and treated a child who lost his arm hanging it out a school bus window. So it can happen. And having an ER nurse as a mother, my brother and I had a weird list of things we couldn’t enjoy because they caused injuries in other kids, like we couldn’t eat Pringles out of those cans in the 80s, we had to put them in a bowl. We also weren’t allowed to chew gum or have those snap bracelets or play lawn darts. Oddly enough, my brother and I both played dangerous sports (he played football and I took riding lessons) and she never made us wear helmets when riding a bike
I always figured he was based on a Vietnam war vet, and was rarely used due to being deemed "insensitive" to the real war vets....
I can't remember the episode. Maybe same season. Ms. K. told the children to keep hands in bus and reminded them about the story about the boy that lost his hand. I think that kid was Herman. So, if he lost his arm as a kid, he did not serve. He would not be fit to.
He's obviously modeled after a vietnam vet trope, which was already losing cultural relevancy by the 90s. a soldier that never left the war is perma relevant in america, but the shape and sound of what that soldier looks and sounds like now is totally different than one molded by vietnam. The character basically appears again in South Park in the form of Ned Gerblanski.
Where was Herman on the episode where Homer buy a gun?
humb marines ibarra Again I think RealJim's point that they were able to create a funnier joke with a different character and set-up answers that. His antique store doesn't quite fit and his character wouldn't have been as funny in the scene as the deadpan Jewish guy
Yeah, where was he? The Sarcastic Guy sold him the gun, and then he wasn't in the NRA meetings either. That's one where they could've brought him in.
That's true but Homer buying the gun from the wise guy is one of my favorite Simpsons moments. I'm glad they didn't use Herman on that one lol
humb marines ibarra that's the sarcastic guy
I think they wanted a gag where Homer actually has to obey the law and wait. Herman strikes me as the kind of guy who would be willing wave that rule if the price was right...
After 30 years of stories, I think the Simpsons who benefit from using Herman instead of repeating storylines
"What the heck is going on in Herman's Head?"
i see what you did there. Nice.
I have a theory that Herman is related to Lucille Botzicewski (sp), aka the Babysitter Bandit. They both have similar character models (that season 1 aesthetic) and both are small time criminals. Both are rarely seen (although Heeman is a top billed star compared to Lucille’s one off (so far) early appearance.
Herman was a Vietnam war vet type character like Lt Dan from Forrest Gump. That was a common and well known archetype in the early 90's but it's not really relevant in the zombie simpsons era.
I know I’m late to the party but I’d also like to add that the Simpson’s no longer uses characters who smoke or uses guns. Idk why.... but can you honestly remember the last time a Simpson’s character pulled a gun on someone? Or it could be the fact that they don’t want to show old military people in a negative light. 🤷🏾♀️