Mesa Boogie Mark IV SHOOTOUT!
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2024
- Since the Mesa Mark IV was discontinued, there have been several Mark Series amps that feature the Mark IV voicing. Let's shoot them out!
This Video Is Sponsored By Sweetwater: sweetwater.sjv.io/Fluff
Time Stamps:
0:00 - Start
0:19 - Intro
0:53 - Disclosure
1:07 - The Amps
2:49 - Shootout!
11:47 - Wrap Up
Support This Channel
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
►Musicians Guide To Content Creation: bit.ly/TheMusiciansGuide
►My Signature Coffee: bit.ly/BeardBlend
►My Signature Fishman Pickup: imp.i114863.net/Fishman_Fluff
►My Sweetwater Store: sweetwater.sjv.io/Fluff
►My Patreon: / riffsandbeards
►My Reverb Shop: bit.ly/FluffReverb
►My Sweetwater Store: imp.i114863.net/Sweetwater
►Discord Server: / discord
Socials
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
Linktree: linktr.ee/RiffsAndBeards
.
Website: www.riffsandbeards.net
.
Fluff Merch: teespring.com/stores/riffs-an...
.
Amazon Store: www.amazon.com/shop/fluff191
My Camera Gear
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
The Camera Body: amzn.to/39RzzXb
The Lens: amzn.to/3l3KSmy
The Tripod: amzn.to/2hTrudP
The Shotgun Mic: amzn.to/3673QPf
All Links Are Affiliate Links 
Видеоклипы
I bought a 91 Rev A for $600 when no one wanted them. I’ll most likely never sell it.
Buying and selling gear before the GAS channels started was awesome.
Well Done.
Freakin lucky... I got mine a few years ago before the "pre gibson" drama started and felt lucky to get mine for around $1300 - $1400. Worth every penny though.
When?
I bought a jcm800 2203 for 700€ but my dream is still the mk 4
@@lovecraftmusic8717 probably like 2013.. I’m not sure. I’ve had it a while
I bought my Rev A combo for 1440 dollars 2 years ago. The price for that amp is twice as expensive today.. Amazing amp btw.
I love how gritty the Mark 4 is.
The 5 and 7 are more refined but I like the Mark 4 the most out of all of these.
The best channel on the Mark V is the Mark IV mode.
If you have the presence pushed on the Mark IV, you should have the V in Xtreme mode instead of IV mode. Xtreme mode is the presence pushed setting on the old Mark IV. It would have been more fair for the V since it will give the V the low mids push and more gain.
I love my VII and it stands well against my IVB, but the V just was neutered in the settings in this one.
Exactly correct
This 100000x. This is exactly why I hate these type of videos. No one actually knows what the fuck they are doing. It just takes a few mins to read the manual. People would rather get the new shiny thing than read the damn manual. These amps are within ballpark if you know what you are doing.
just the mark 4 for me forever 🖤🎸
You need to check out a Marshall VS100.
Craps all over Mesa Boogie and only costs around $300
@@User-gfys-0icu81 lol i have that since decades was my very first amp but nothing like mesa sorry bro 🤣🙊
@-AnonLab2 so the youtube experts speaks, amen 🤣🙏
@@Turbo-D thats why chuck schuldiner used the VS100 and not the Mesa?
Thats why Billy Gibbons uses the VS100 and not the Mesa.
$300 v. $2000 …. Lol
@@User-gfys-0icu81 yeah dude very old stuff but have a nice day over there in worthless city 🤷
Interesting. Under your settings, I found myself liking the Mark V the most. For my taste, the IV has a little less clarity and the VII is a little too compressed with some too pronounced mids. I think they can be dialed in very closely with some tweaks though.
I think the Mark V is still the best if you want the "greatest hits" of the Mesa Mark series. It is still probably the most versatile of all the Marks. Variac, 10 Watt single ended, solo function, and pentode/triode. The VII has that giant transformer but I don't feel that that is necessary as the original Mark IV has about the same size transformer as the V and no one complains about that. Sounds like more like marketing talk from gibson. Heck I even like having the Mark I mode in the V for a vastly different feel. All these amps "feel" like Marks. The circuits are basically identical save for minute differences. I have the JP2C, Mark V and a V:35 and I think those two cover most of the bases for Mark tones. Note that the JP2C has the Pull Deep function enabled internally as well as being class AB. The Mark V gives you another flavor because of the Simulclass nature of it (You can even make it class AB in the 45 watt mode for a gritty flavor. You can make all these amps sound and feel basically the same. Trust me... I have spent my entire life playing these amps. My first amp was a Mark IV A.
Also please read the manuals especially the Mark V. A lot of the misunderstanding with that amp has come to people not reading the manual. Note on the gain... On the C+ and IV models there is a Volume (IIC+) or (Lead Gain) setting that is ommited on the V. On the Mark V it is internally set to 7 and 3/4 (note that it is also set to pull bright on the V internally).
I got a used Mark IV A less than a year ago off of Reverb, and after giving it a good clean inside the chassis, it’s pretty much become my new favorite amplifier. I have a dual channel Mesa tri rec and a H&K Tri-amp mark 1 which are both amazing sounding amps as well, but the low end on the Mark IV is just something else. With the right speakers and the right pickups, it’s absolutely massive sounding. It needs a lot of fine tuning with the eq and knobs, but once you figure it out and dial in what you like, it’s just incredible.
Thanks for the comparison video, Fluff. I thought the Mark V sounded pretty great too. If I couldn’t get a Mark IV I’d probably go for the V.
The Mk IV is my "Grail"...absolutly love my Mk IVB, which I pickup new in 2008. One of the last ones produced. To me the "modes" just aren't the same. Thank you for this comparison!
rite on brother!!! i picked up my 2008 mark IV at the start of covid...absolutely love it...play it in a stereo rig with a badlander 50W...cheers!!!
I was also lucky enough to buy a 2008 revb a couple of years ago. I think it's super versatile, I absolutely love it. Just hope nothing goes wrong with it.
Great video, thanks for setting them with yours ears and not just copying settings across amps. As a mark v owner I've told people forever you can't just set top what you think it should be and you sometimes need to min or max settings.
Dammit Fluff, I've rewatched this 4 times now and am really wanting a Mark VII now. Great video!
2nd channel on the Mark V is badass, it’s not just a Chuga Chuga amp. But you don’t see many demo or dial it in on demos correctly.
Totally agree. I’ve had my Mark V for almost 12 years now and I think it’s one of the most versatile amps on the market. I use it for 90% of my recorded guitar tones for everything from clean to light clipping to crunch to chugging riffs. I will evangelize this amp forever.
I feel the V has the best midrange for me. Solid , not too oomphy/scooped and not as bright as the vii .
I played a 35 watt version and kinda liked it. But I’d like to try the full 90 to see the difference in tone.
Weirdly they are both in the same price range.
I think for riffing the 35 watt was pretty sweet, and for tight palm muting. I really need to see how the 90 sounds though in comparison.
Mark IV has been my favorite since they came out. Some came close but I always go back.
One of the best comparisons I've seen!
I just picked up a Mark V and I absolutely love it so far! Awesome video!!!
Love these comparison vids man!
I do wonder how the Mark IV would have sounded with the Presence pot pulled though, as I think that's the specific Mark IV configuration that the Mark VII tried to emulate.
Wonderful sounds! That's why I like to play guitar. The feeling that you get if you play guitar with real amps is just like flying. Wonderful amps. 😁🤘
I bought a Mark VII from Sweetwater the week they came out. Still loving the amp. Have a Mark IV as well and its now in storage.
Great video man! I really love the Mark IV , the only other Mesa model i saw that had a drive and gain knob on the 2nd channel too was Lonestar model. Miss that amp , love how you could interact with the two knobs to flavor. 🤘🤘
Super cool video! It's be cool to see how a Mark V 25 head compares as well. Thanks Fluff!
Ryan, the V is the harsher of the 3. I had a IV A, it had really big lows compared to the V and the VII. With the V you have to lower a little bit the 6600 and increase the 750, the IV is really strong in that range.
If you're going by just this video, it's not a fair comparison as there's so many more options he didn't even dive into on the v. I have the v in 90 and 25w and they're absolutely fantastic. Everyone hates on the v cause it's not a 4 ,well, it was never meant to be, it's actually more versatile. You just have more of a learning curve to get you there,that's really why I think people put it down, and I do get that, sometimes I prefer a more simplistic amp too but for recording/reamping, that's the best way to learn what all the switching actually does on the v. Same for any amp but especially the v. I bet you if he played around a bit more he could have got all 3 sounding extremely close. And I know someone will say something like ya but the low end is better on the 4, well, no it's not, just because you may be able to get that low end on the 4 at a lower setting, you're never going to have to max the low end all the way on the v, or even close, it would be way too much, so the low end is there for sure and plenty of it on tap on all 3 amps I'm sure. Also I typically play the 90 through a 4x12 and the 25 through a 2x12 and both setups I get great lows,mids,highs.
This was a good one! Loving my VII
I got a Mark 4 Rev A a couple months ago and it’s an absolute monster. Channel two is ok, but only for mid gain stuff for me. Going to try these settings out when I can!!!
On the MKV I use the GEQ as almost like another channel , dial in my main tone with the channel EQ then kick in the preset EQ and a push :) Great Video
Great video! Not sure if I'm the only one, but one thing I feel is missing from a lot of amp comparison videos is the addition of what they sound like with the exact same settings. All knobs at noon for example. It would give a nice indication about each ones character and how they really differ from one another in terms of gain, low-end etc etc.
I would usually agree with you, but the Mark series amps don't work like normal amps where you can just set everything at 12 and it sounds ballpark OK.
awesome been waiting for this! cant see any reason to purchase the 7 over the V. Plus extreme mode adds the bottom end that iv mode seems to lack in my opinion
Awesome amps
Saturation baby.. the Mark IV drive is more saturated.. Awesome comparison Brian My friends call me Fluff. 🤘🏼✌🏼
"wildly different" seems like a bit of an exaggeration my man 😂
Great video though, it definitely highlights the differences. The IV seems less compressed and "raw" to me here, which checks out with my experience playing my VII against my III. The VII is super aggressive and so fun to play, the III is great but more work.
Haven't had a IV in a while, so I'm glad you did this to show the differences!
Marks are such a finicky beast. Have always wanted the ability to save presets of the perfect settings with recall via midi and fly around between settings without the need for endless tweaking, especially with the insane versatility that is in tap no matter which model you use. I guess that's what we have captures and modeling for.
So... A TriAxis? :D
@Babook In theory, yep, exactly, but a fair update after 20 years. The tri was a brilliant start, ahead of its time, and seemingly inspired the Fractal empire. Would love to see a fair reincarnation and update. Given Gibson's/KKR's ownership of Mesa now, there is a theoretical opportunity for a curveball, but it's unfortunately unlikely due to expected challenges with financial justifications to spend on the R&D and meaningful retool on manufacturing within a struggling and decling industry.
Yea, but even if we had presets, the barometric pressure or some shit would make it sound different! lol
I got my Mark IV from the final run back in 2008 and love it. The big question for me is would a Mark VII or JP2C be a better companion for it when I want to be able to get a similar but maybe slightly different sound. I live 95% on channel three.
Your videos are awsum! Thanks. What’s your favorite all time amp? Thanks.
Everything I have is potentially for sale... except my wife, my cats, and my Mark IV. That's how much I love it.
Now I understand why people see that 5 band eq is the key. The smallest changes make huge differences. for instance when you started the video the Mk4 was my least favorite tonally by far and the mk7 was the one. But when you changed the Mk4 to sound like the 7 and bumped the high mids. The Mk4 went from sounding choked off to my ears, to opening up and became my favorite tonally.
If you've never used a Mark series, the EQ's are incredibly sensitive, but the result is that it's very versatile.
The mark IV is to the VII like the 5150 is to the evh 5150III
I have the roadking 212, and the mark iv rev A compact combo. It’s my go to for all studio and most live shows
Great video! What are you using for your guitar to amp switcher and what are the amps running into? Thanks Fluff!
Something about the VII's mids is just less harsh and I really dig that.
Bad ass comparison!
Agreed with the gain on top with the VII, it's super saturated and makes the older amps kind of seem like they lack gain... crazy I know!
What pedal are you using for the amp switching?
I've been looking at something like the KHE switcher, but would love to have something on the floor!
i have a Mark IV combo at home, its soo fuckng loud . I love it .
Very good demo, the MK IV has a very big open drive sound really nice, but has you say the VII is the more versatile and in the mix you wouldn't tell the difference once dialled in
Should have pulled the gain knob on the IV to bring them closer together, this is the treble shift which fills out the midrange before any major distortion and is hardwired on in mark V onwards as far as I know.
Great Video Fluff, i currently have a Mark Five, but i hear the tonal difference, do you feel the is not necessary to have bright option on channel 3 for the Mark Five?, i always use it on the Mark V but i don't see it on Mark VII
You can really hear that low end roar to life on the mark IV.. even when you backed it off.. the 7 & 5 have a tight trunk on chugs and the 4 has definitely a bit deeper
IV brings the beef.
@@coreyclark6505 um... You may not want to shout that in public hahahaha jk
There is some type of harmonic ring on the IVB the VII is very close...there was a point early in the vid the V and VII sounded darn identical...fun video
the IV is way clearer, cause the VII has a lot of compression compared to the others. I prefer the IV over the 3, it will reccord better with these beautiful low mids IMO. Anyway all of these amps are amazing
I honestly thought the IV sounded boxier compared to the VII and V. Hard to know via video though. They all sounded great. Hard to go wrong with the Mark series amps IMO. I have had my Mark V for 12 years now and use it for 90% of my recorded guitar tones since it is so versatile. It is interesting though that you noted the gain level on the V being not as high. Sometimes I feel like it’s a bit low but usually I only need it about 2:00 or 3:00 on the gain to get it where I need it to be. You can always boost it too. Also, I don’t use the IV setting on the V to try to sound like the IV. I think the better approach is to just dial in a good tone and then go from there. I think this video confirms that a Mark IV is what sounds like a IV, even if you can approximate it.
You can dial out the boxiness. But if you like that, good luck trying to dial it in on the other two. Not happening.
@@jsullivan2112 I don’t doubt you can dial out the boxiness. The whole reason I got interested in the Mark series amps so many years ago was John Petrucci’s use of the Mark IV on Dream Theater’s Systematic Chaos, which definitely is not boxey sounding at all. Again, I think they all sound great in their own right, so really the question is what do you want. If you want to sound like a Mark IV then the best thing to do is just buy a Mark IV. They are not rare and are still affordable, definitely more affordable than a IIC+. I think it’s better to just treat each amp in its own right rather than viewed through the lens of the Mark IV, even if the V and VII have Mark IV settings on them. Otherwise I think, like you said, you’ll never quite get there and probably find yourself frustrated rather than enjoying the amp for what it has to offer.
@@sjones3891 Agree 100%, with the exception of Mark IVs still being affordable. Have you looked lately? They’re steadily climbing, and finding a head is pretty difficult. A few have popped up recently with some people selling theirs to buy a Mark VII, but those are the first I’ve seen in well over a year.
@@jsullivan2112 I had just checked Reverb before responding and I saw there were some in the $1500-1700 range, but I see a lot of them are higher than that, upwards of $3K and more. Still generally cheaper than the IIC+ from what I can see on Reverb, which appear to be starting around $3K and going much higher.
@@sjones3891 Yeah the IIC+ is practically extinct in the wild now, agreed.
I managed to make Mark V sound indistinguishable in a blind test from Mark IV with external EQ in the loop. Mark V is a little bit mid-forward, which you have to compensate with the EQ. "IV" mode of Mark V is literally a subset of what real Mark IV is doing, so if you are into this tone, better go with an original IV model.
Also listening to the shootout, apparently Mark IV has 2200 on GEQ much higher than Mark V and Mark VII, which drastically changes the perception.
11:13
Translation:
“The Mark IV is…. …audibly superior in kind of all ways”
Mark iv for life meng
A long chord on my Mark IVA and B have a growl that I can't get out of my Mark V. 😢
I'm no expert but would you say the mark IV is somewhat comparable to a 5150? Something in the midrange tells me that
@@Professional.Bro.777In a high gain comparison, the 5150 can get comparable tones but is a much noisier platform, IMO. I’ve only played two 5150s. The 5150 felt more scooped, but it does the chugs very well.
In terms of cleans and it’s ability to do Marshall style tones like the MK IV, NO.
@@NateThunder 5150 chugs are heavenly
@@NateThunder Are you saying that the 5150 has better cleans and Marshall style tones that the Mesa Mark cannot do?
@@KeithMcKissick No, the opposite. The 5150 has a great heavy tone, however, I’ve only know them to be grainier cleans and they aren’t going to get the same Marshall style tone as the crunch channel of a Mark IV.
I prefer the Mark VII, good job Mesa and yes I did own a Mark IVb.
I have a MKIV I'm curious where you have all the push pull knobs. So many options. Is the mid boost on or pentode or triode?
Tone wise, I would be happy with any of them… so I will probably pick just my favorite, which is the Mark V for the tone versatility and the features. I’m not a stage user, so I don’t like the channel duplication on the Mark VII, I prefer to have an amp with more choices and tone palette, so it’s the Mark V. Also, it was already my favorite amp at the studio (well before the Mark VII), and I even thought getting a mark V:25 or V:35 for me at home, but finally I think I will just stick to the big boy and get the 90w version (even if 90w are way overkill for my home/studio use only…
All I know is that after recently getting a chance to play the mark VII, it is my endgame amp. I don't think i'll ever need anything else once I pick mine up.
Still watching vid...you had the IVB and V really close when you talked about the mids and possible difference due to tubes...man this making me want to go fire up my V 25w
I have been a Boogie Mark Series fan most of my life, beginning with a Mark IIB in 1978. I currently own a Mark V 35 and am looking to upgrade. I am considering a Mark VII, a Friedman BE50 Deluxe, and a Soldano SLO 30. I need a clean, an edge of breakup, and a distorted tone. With tone being the most important, features such as reverb, direct out, and FX loop are also important. Help me out here Fluff!!!
Mark VII sounds the best to my ears.
Out of curiosity, what were the Pentode / Triode and Harmonics switches set to? Those both impact the tone of the Mark IV significantly. On the IV I actually like my Channel 2 a lot, and use it for pushed cleans but also don't care much for Channel 1. Rolling back the VOL on Channel 3 when it's tapped out gives you a great broken clean sound too. Stupid versatile amp...
Bottom line, Boogie is making all of their new amps with a Mark IV sound for a reason. It's the GOAT or at least a serious contender. I agree though that the V and the VII have done a good job trying to capture some of the essence / mojo though... and like you said, in a mix nobody is going to know the difference. For the kids out there looking for some of that, this is a great option that's available.
This.
I recently replaced the Mark IV's fan with a brand new ultra quiet(!?) but no luck. It's sooo loud because of its size and at the end of the day I feel so tired when I turn off the amp!!! From what I've read on forums, some of the Mark IV users disabled their fan. My amp tech said that the capacitors do not like heat and will quickly shorten their life if not cooled. I'm not sure what to do and even thought of trading the amp with a JP2C just because of the noise.
The mark IV is the best metal amp ever
Mark IV fucking rules! I don’t think they’ve ever made a better amp since. I do like the VII quite a bit though.
The Mark IV sounds almost broken. Like if an HM-2 was blended in with it. The V and the VII sound refined and very pleasant while being brutal.
Ive got w Rev A iv. But i think its kinda gritty and undefined
Did you have the presence pulled or pushed on the mark iv? Pushed is equivalent to the extreme mode on the V.
What are those coloured discs between the amps? I need those!!
Woohoo!!! Lamb of God fest!
I feel like in a mix these amps would all sound exactly the same to the music listener, like how the 6505 compares to the 5150... I'm not completely versed on the MK series so while they might be completely different amps, any amp through the same cabinet will sound unnoticeably different
yeah they are all pretty close. the IV was a little less scooped sounding, but they had the same saturation character.
most music consumers don't even notice tone anyway haha. only us gear nerds pay attention.
Did you use the pull Bright?
Never owned a tune amp, but thinking Market maybe the one, do wheels come off as well?
I've always only wanted a mesa mark v because Steve Von Till 🤷🏻♀️ and I love neurosis a lot
Does anyone have any good suggestions for a boost pedal for the mark 4?
I think the IV was Mesa’s last unique mark amp. I honestly didn’t like my mark V, I really wanted to like it but it didn’t feel like as good as my III’s or IV’s
Mark series or Dual rectifies?
I've had Mark V and IV for long time and tested Mark VII for some time. For my opinion if you have to work with a different genres Mark V it's the real deal. Mark IV it's incredible but the clean it's so jazzy and rhythm channel isn't good. Mark VII have better clean but the second channel it's to heavy, it's much a metal amp. But the clean of Mark V it's close to fender twin, the reverb it's better, when you need to crunch it's natural. The second channel it's the secret weapon, you really can get a Marshall tone in Edge position. You can play blues, classic rock and sounds near to JCM or Plexi with a good tube screamer, od-1 or 80s hair metal with a original ratt.
You cannot record entire album with Mark IV or VII, you always missing something, but with Mark V with more work you can get real Mark IV and IIC+ tone, Marshall in channel 2 and fender in channel 1. It's all we need to be happy in this life :)
PS: I've just sold my Mark V cause i've move to US and was to big to bring with me, but Im work hard to get a new one, or 2. Try all these amps in stereo and you will find the heaven.
Mark wins
Maybe it's just that it's the Extreme mode in the Mark V that needs to be compared to the Mark IV and the Mark VII.
For me, when I play my Mark V, it's on Extreme. Which is strange, because on my Triple Rec Reborn is Orange Vintage, which sound pretty alike. Mark IV mode on the V did always sound a little bit off; on the other hand the Extreme mode reminded me more of the IIC+ mode with more punch, gain and perhaps more flexibility, since I didm't need to push all controls to the limit.
Triaxis also has input gain like the Mark IV (I mean, the Triaxis basically is a Mark series, lol).
So it sounds like if you had to pick ONE of the 3, it’d be the 7 due to versatility.
What would you then pick out of the mark 7 vs the triple crown which massively has my interest in terms of overall sound. Play anything from John Mayer soft cleans to twangy country to lamb of god and nu-metal/djent. Haha. Anyone feel free to chime in but personal experience preferred 😎
When you do these types of videos, how are all 3 amps connected to the same cab? Or do they each have their own cab?
KHE switcher.
shouldn't you dial in without eq on and then dial in with eq on?
10:07 mark V is pretty close with mark IV. Still not the same of course but really close. I have a Mark V 90w and i just love the amp. Thats the reason i like to see this side by side comparisons once i can't have a mark IV to test neither purchase.
I watch this with the mindset that i`ll need the info for buying a Mesa, meanwhile i have barely been able to afford my own food for 3 years
for my tastes, the 7 is the winner....the 4 has an odd undertone that i just couldnt un-hear once i found it...
I have an old Mk4 in Tacoma with 6L6/EL34 hybrid, fresh tubes clean bill of health. Love you to shoot it out if interested...no shoutout required.
The IV sounds like it has more attack… I think.
What are the Orange discs used between the amp heads?
These are simply spacers that you place under the feet of the amp because there is a carrying handle on top and the amp could otherwise tip over. As you can see there are not only orange ones under the Mark VII but also blue ones under the Mark IV ! I do the same with my " Mark-Tower ! 🤭😁
IV is so much more punch
spectrum analyzer would help you dial it in even better for a like for like comparison.
I prefer the MkVII. The IV has a throaty low mid thing that sounds gurgly or farty when palm muting IMO
I wouldn’t get rid of one to get the other is what I got out of the video
Shouldnt that LP custom have an Ebony board?
It’s a custom shop with a rosewood board.
@@ianbooth4010 i mean just get a standard then.. to each his own i guess
Meza?
Here's a little known fact. You can dial in a Mark IV Rev A identical to a IIC+. How do I know? I have both 😮
Great video. Next time you do shootouts you should do all settings set at noon etc so we can hear the differences between each amp.
IV
I just can't see what people like - that fuzzy low end when palm-muting drives me nuts. I want a thud to the chest, not a fuzzy blanket to the brain
Man.. everyone is saying that the VII crushes the V but they sound almost exacty the same here. I'm starting to think that people just like to talk shit about the V for no real reason... I can't believe how similar they sound, come on.
9:02
@@progrocker84 Yeah, looks like you can get almost the same tone form both if you tweak them differently...
Mark 4 def sounds the nastiest.
The VII has an awesome voice but is noticeably lacking in the ripping, punchy attack department. The VII is just too soft in the attack, which sucks because I really like the subtle differences in its voicing which has tamed the overload of high mids a bit.