i used a VL12 for a few weeks until it went back because the arm adjuster stuck.. i also used it with a rega arm -placed to one side-and it all performed amazingly well
Hi all - the Pioneer plx 1200 is another sub $1,000 table worth looking at and possibly improving. I have one along with a vintage Technics 1200 mk5. The appeal of these types of turntables is the ability to swap cartridges easily. The mk5 is nicer for sure. The Pioneer works and plays well but the tone arm doesn’t feel as nice as the Technics. I also don’t like the dark tinted dust cover on the Pioneer (the clear Technics cover looks better to me). That said, the Pioneer gets the job done. Sonically I don’t notice a difference between the tables - I have not done an A/B test. Neither table has been modified. I primarily use a Nagaoka 110 and an Ortofon Mono moving magnet cartridges.
Great content. Gives pretty good insight in how to setup the table. Could you also try to include using the fozgometer as well, that would be really helpful. 🙏🤗
For the same money i have a Pro-Ject 6 Perspex magnetic suspension turntable fitted with a Hadcock uni-pivot tonearm and Denon moving coil cartridge which will perform, in my opinion, better than your recommendation.
If SkyFi wants to get into less expensive TTs to tweak... I suggest the Reloop RP-7000 MK2 (silver and black). There's a guy on AK with a thread full of tweaks
The Denon DJ VL12 is discontinued (and has been for some time). To my knowledge, it was only manufactured for a short time, 1y or so. AFAIK it also has some problems with the tonearm.and/or pitch fader.
1:36 Wrong! ALL of the current SL-1200 models have removable cables. 5:05 Audiophiles who have a good hearing hear when a record is cut at a too high or too low speed, so they love the pitchfader to correct these issues. 6:12 Nope, it's four. Four different rows of dots. So four different spacings. 6:40 Yes, that's the same principle as the 1200s use, but just one row of markings instead of four. 9:12 Depends on the model, that Denon is 12kg, which is about the same as an old SL-1200MK2, M3D or MK5. But the current MK7 is lighter, at about 10kg. And an SL-1200G is heavier, at about 18kg. So it really depends on which model you compare it with, it can go both ways. 11:36 It's called a digital gauge. 12:26 That "rotation" is called "azimuth". You don't need that Fozgometer to set it, you can use your scope to do that. 14:47 That test is meant to determine the *most extreme* amount of anti-skating force that could theoretically be required for a record, not the nominal amount of required anti-skating force... important to take that into consideration.
this is a dj deck, rather than an "audiophile" deck. "Audiophiles" need no speed controls, only accurate reproduction; whereas d.j's need quick startup, stop, speed matching and ability to scratch and cue, etc, so use light platters and direct drive motors. Best audio decks have heavy platters for constant speed due to inertia, belt driven and are suspended from their motors for isolation. Long/removable cables and flimsy detachable head-shells are not a good idea with very low voltage from the low output from moving coil cartridges, added to their compromised rigidity and extra connectors. The principle used for the strobe is completely different, since the 4 markings are for 33 & 45 speeds at the 50 & 60 Hz mains frequencies against a constant mains strobe flicker from the light. This is copied from decks like the Garrard 301. This deck looks like it has one set of markings, which must mean the strobe flashes change frequency electronically to match the fixed marking on the deck instead (i.e. not directly, but now only indirectly related to mains frequency, through intermediate circuitry). Why is it important to take extreme or nominal anti-skate into consideration? What are the dependencies and variations? Personally, I find cartridge alignment is far more critical than azimuth, vta, or anti-skate in setting up a deck to sound good.
@@MichaelDisney "The principle used for the strobe is completely different, since the 4 markings are for 33 & 45 speeds at the 50 & 60 Hz mains frequencies against a constant mains strobe flicker from the light." Nope. ALL 1200s from the MK2 and later generate their own strobe frequency and it's independent of the AC mains frequency or nominal RPM. The top row indicates +6.4% speed, second +3.3%, third 0% and the bottom row indicates -3.3% speed. An index of the strobe dots is literally printed right next to the strobe light. The way you describe the strobe feature is how it works on the cheapest Hanpin copies - those look identical to the untrained eye. You might want to consider owning or reading about turntables before making assumptions. "Why is it important to take extreme or nominal anti-skate into consideration? What are the dependencies and variations? Personally, I find cartridge alignment is far more critical than azimuth, vta, or anti-skate in setting up a deck to sound good." I agree, cartridge alignment is definitely the most important thing to get right. Anti-skate is just a compromise on arms with a static setting. Records that contain grooves with high modulation require more anti-skating (like those test tracks on a test record) compared to records that contain music that's cut very quietly. This is why there are high-end arms that have dynamic anti-skating. It's not just a marketing gimmick. As for the additional connections of removable headshells and cables, there's no measureable voltage drop when properly connected. It's not that complicated to test it yourself if you own a scope - just measure the output voltage of your turntable/cartridge yourself, then add an RCA extension cable to it, and see, no voltage drop. Whether it's a LOMC or MM cartridge... same results. The only difference there's to measure are a higher noisefloor and - in case of MM cartridges - a slightly higher peak in frequency response between 10 to 12kHz (due to cable capacitance). That's why phono cables should be as short as possible. The SME connector that the headshells plug in to slightly decreases the rigidity of the arm, but that's dwarved by the rigidity and reflections within various headshells/tonearm wands themselves. Those are way more important - the stock headshells and cables that come with these turntables are things that should be upgraded right away... because they're just low quality freebees that came with the turntable. As for the direct drive vs belt drive debate... there's no point in doing that again. People just have their preferences, that's all there's to it. There's no best, plenty great ultra high-end DD and BD decks out there - and yes, both types have heavy platters.
Thanks for showing the set up procedure. Very interesting. Why do you suppose that Denon chose to have the cables come out the side instead of the back? Seems like an odd choice.
Do you know where to get a quasi plinth for a Rega P10? I love my P110, but I'm not a fan of how the skeletal structure it sits on looks. So afake plinth I could use to hide that would be great.
You must be out of your mind to say the Denon is superior to the Technics, The arm on the Denon rocks back & forth like a child’s Fisher Price record player. I think they ran out of money on those Denons, don’t get me wrong it looks nice & I’ve used one & it’s got the feel of a Numark 90s turntable, hence this is why they discontinued them.
@@admiralhipowa7158 no it doesn't the arm is fine and has excellent tracking. I actually did an a b test between the two and the Denon has superior sonics. The Denon is a fresh sheet of paper design no off the shelf parts
The tone arm is the biggest let down on that turntable, the tone arm was used on budget Technics clones. If they had put a decent arm on that deck it would have rivalled Technics, just like the Denon DJ multimedia players that rival Pioneer CDJs, the Denon multimedia players are light years ahead of the flagship Pioneer CDJ 3000. It’s a mystery to me why Denon but such a cheap arm that has a lot of play in it & other cheap looking fittings on what looks like a well built turntable.
While I like a nice set of cables on my gear, I dont expect much from them. Much like the pinstripes on a classic car, won’t make the ride faster but it sure looks like they would.
A stunning turntable that I think is one big miss. Denon did excellent engineering onnthis deck - except the tonearm. Just underestimated and as a result the turntable failed, and it's a shame because the whole device is built in a simply fantastic way.
Denon has been making turntables for 40 years? WOW! Oh wait! This is a Hanpin of China TT sold under a dozen different brands, and might be worth $300.00
Everything is a rip-off from the SL-1200. Too lazy to develop their own turntables. I'm surprised Technics didn't sue the hell out of them all for design and aesthetics.
Oh yeah, this babys a cheap copy of every other DJ table and it had so many malfunctions and problems it was discontinued in like a year. The $300 snake oil cables youre connecting cost way more that this rig was ever worth. What a POS to be featuring in a high end shop, surely you can pick better gear than this for entry level merchandise.
i used a VL12 for a few weeks until it went back because the arm adjuster stuck.. i also used it with a rega arm -placed to one side-and it all performed amazingly well
Hi all - the Pioneer plx 1200 is another sub $1,000 table worth looking at and possibly improving.
I have one along with a vintage Technics 1200 mk5.
The appeal of these types of turntables is the ability to swap cartridges easily.
The mk5 is nicer for sure. The Pioneer works and plays well but the tone arm doesn’t feel as nice as the Technics. I also don’t like the dark tinted dust cover on the Pioneer (the clear Technics cover looks better to me). That said, the Pioneer gets the job done.
Sonically I don’t notice a difference between the tables - I have not done an A/B test. Neither table has been modified. I primarily use a Nagaoka 110 and an Ortofon Mono moving magnet cartridges.
I have a vl12 & a 1200. Both solid TT’s. The vl12 tonearm is flimsy imo. Would love it replaced with an old 1200 tonearm.
Great content. Gives pretty good insight in how to setup the table.
Could you also try to include using the fozgometer as well, that would be really helpful. 🙏🤗
Great suggestion!
For the same money i have a Pro-Ject 6 Perspex magnetic suspension turntable fitted with a Hadcock uni-pivot tonearm and Denon moving coil cartridge which will perform, in my opinion, better than your recommendation.
Lots of great alternatives for sure.
If SkyFi wants to get into less expensive TTs to tweak... I suggest the Reloop RP-7000 MK2 (silver and black). There's a guy on AK with a thread full of tweaks
Thanks Larry. You don't happen to have a link to that thread do you? Thanks!
I have a Stanton 150, great turntable!
i have a gold Stanton 500 , the MK1,..love it but original styli are hard to get and still sound best
The Denon DJ VL12 is discontinued (and has been for some time). To my knowledge, it was only manufactured for a short time, 1y or so. AFAIK it also has some problems with the tonearm.and/or pitch fader.
Thanks for the insight sir. Too bad it’s been discontinued. No issues with the fader on mine so far.
Check out the speaker at the beginning. The Bowers and Wilkins Nautilus
Good eye. Indeed, original Nautilus.
Caught my attention too. But then i saw those McIntosh Amps in the Background @1:40 , what the heck?? Never saw these before :O
fantastic is sl 1600 mk2 and a pearl System.
1:36 Wrong! ALL of the current SL-1200 models have removable cables.
5:05 Audiophiles who have a good hearing hear when a record is cut at a too high or too low speed, so they love the pitchfader to correct these issues.
6:12 Nope, it's four. Four different rows of dots. So four different spacings.
6:40 Yes, that's the same principle as the 1200s use, but just one row of markings instead of four.
9:12 Depends on the model, that Denon is 12kg, which is about the same as an old SL-1200MK2, M3D or MK5. But the current MK7 is lighter, at about 10kg. And an SL-1200G is heavier, at about 18kg. So it really depends on which model you compare it with, it can go both ways.
11:36 It's called a digital gauge.
12:26 That "rotation" is called "azimuth". You don't need that Fozgometer to set it, you can use your scope to do that.
14:47 That test is meant to determine the *most extreme* amount of anti-skating force that could theoretically be required for a record, not the nominal amount of required anti-skating force... important to take that into consideration.
Great info, thanks!!
this is a dj deck, rather than an "audiophile" deck. "Audiophiles" need no speed controls, only accurate reproduction; whereas d.j's need quick startup, stop, speed matching and ability to scratch and cue, etc, so use light platters and direct drive motors. Best audio decks have heavy platters for constant speed due to inertia, belt driven and are suspended from their motors for isolation. Long/removable cables and flimsy detachable head-shells are not a good idea with very low voltage from the low output from moving coil cartridges, added to their compromised rigidity and extra connectors.
The principle used for the strobe is completely different, since the 4 markings are for 33 & 45 speeds at the 50 & 60 Hz mains frequencies against a constant mains strobe flicker from the light. This is copied from decks like the Garrard 301. This deck looks like it has one set of markings, which must mean the strobe flashes change frequency electronically to match the fixed marking on the deck instead (i.e. not directly, but now only indirectly related to mains frequency, through intermediate circuitry).
Why is it important to take extreme or nominal anti-skate into consideration? What are the dependencies and variations? Personally, I find cartridge alignment is far more critical than azimuth, vta, or anti-skate in setting up a deck to sound good.
@@MichaelDisney "The principle used for the strobe is completely different, since the 4 markings are for 33 & 45 speeds at the 50 & 60 Hz mains frequencies against a constant mains strobe flicker from the light."
Nope. ALL 1200s from the MK2 and later generate their own strobe frequency and it's independent of the AC mains frequency or nominal RPM. The top row indicates +6.4% speed, second +3.3%, third 0% and the bottom row indicates -3.3% speed.
An index of the strobe dots is literally printed right next to the strobe light.
The way you describe the strobe feature is how it works on the cheapest Hanpin copies - those look identical to the untrained eye.
You might want to consider owning or reading about turntables before making assumptions.
"Why is it important to take extreme or nominal anti-skate into consideration? What are the dependencies and variations? Personally, I find cartridge alignment is far more critical than azimuth, vta, or anti-skate in setting up a deck to sound good."
I agree, cartridge alignment is definitely the most important thing to get right.
Anti-skate is just a compromise on arms with a static setting. Records that contain grooves with high modulation require more anti-skating (like those test tracks on a test record) compared to records that contain music that's cut very quietly.
This is why there are high-end arms that have dynamic anti-skating.
It's not just a marketing gimmick.
As for the additional connections of removable headshells and cables, there's no measureable voltage drop when properly connected.
It's not that complicated to test it yourself if you own a scope - just measure the output voltage of your turntable/cartridge yourself, then add an RCA extension cable to it, and see, no voltage drop.
Whether it's a LOMC or MM cartridge... same results.
The only difference there's to measure are a higher noisefloor and - in case of MM cartridges - a slightly higher peak in frequency response between 10 to 12kHz (due to cable capacitance).
That's why phono cables should be as short as possible.
The SME connector that the headshells plug in to slightly decreases the rigidity of the arm, but that's dwarved by the rigidity and reflections within various headshells/tonearm wands themselves.
Those are way more important - the stock headshells and cables that come with these turntables are things that should be upgraded right away... because they're just low quality freebees that came with the turntable.
As for the direct drive vs belt drive debate... there's no point in doing that again. People just have their preferences, that's all there's to it.
There's no best, plenty great ultra high-end DD and BD decks out there - and yes, both types have heavy platters.
Thanks for showing the set up procedure. Very interesting.
Why do you suppose that Denon chose to have the cables come out the side instead of the back? Seems like an odd choice.
Convenient for DJ work space arrangement. Quite smart design.
Mixer tends to go in the middle. Easy access to side.
It is very heavy and stable. The only issue is the tonearm. Other than that, everything work fine. I like mine very much.
Yeah tonearm is a bit inferior in terms of constructions, seems to be same designs as Technics tho.
@@SkyFiAudio I disagree, that Denon tone arm is nowhere near the Technics in terms of quality.
Would 50x pitch not give 78 rpm?
Audio tecnnica AT LP 1240. I'm very very happy with my pair. I also use the amazing Garrard 401
Good choice!
Great video
Thanks for the visit
Do you know where to get a quasi plinth for a Rega P10? I love my P110, but I'm not a fan of how the skeletal structure it sits on looks. So afake plinth I could use to hide that would be great.
sorry no idea.
you might as well just go for a Rega p8 for about 1500 with their cartridge
Great table the Rega, falls a bit short in the "coolness" factor
@@SkyFiAudio really.. it's a very good-looking table
I need a TURNATABLE..?!
why not? they're fussy but so much fun.
In the thumbnail for this post, it says 'turnatable not turntable.
I own this table and the 1200, the Denon is a superior table
You must be out of your mind to say the Denon is superior to the Technics, The arm on the Denon rocks back & forth like a child’s Fisher Price record player. I think they ran out of money on those Denons, don’t get me wrong it looks nice & I’ve used one & it’s got the feel of a Numark 90s turntable, hence this is why they discontinued them.
@@admiralhipowa7158 no it doesn't the arm is fine and has excellent tracking. I actually did an a b test between the two and the Denon has superior sonics. The Denon is a fresh sheet of paper design no off the shelf parts
@@snoop65441 That arm has been used on numerous cheap turntables, do your research?
@@snoop65441 Here you go.
ruclips.net/video/Zpda2FIIjt0/видео.html
@@admiralhipowa7158 always
The tone arm is the biggest let down on that turntable, the tone arm was used on budget Technics clones.
If they had put a decent arm on that deck it would have rivalled Technics, just like the Denon DJ multimedia players that rival Pioneer CDJs, the Denon multimedia players are light years ahead of the flagship Pioneer CDJ 3000.
It’s a mystery to me why Denon but such a cheap arm that has a lot of play in it & other cheap looking fittings on what looks like a well built turntable.
Ohhh no the snake oil cables
While I like a nice set of cables on my gear, I dont expect much from them. Much like the pinstripes on a classic car, won’t make the ride faster but it sure looks like they would.
A stunning turntable that I think is one big miss.
Denon did excellent engineering onnthis deck - except the tonearm. Just underestimated and as a result the turntable failed, and it's a shame because the whole device is built in a simply fantastic way.
Tonearm let's it down.
Do you will ship overseas?
Are you thinking Casablanca?
@@bigblueocean Not. I refer to Brazil
@@humphreybogart3419 it was a joke humph..
@@bigblueocean ok
@@bigblueocean see what you did there :-))
😍😍
Denon has been making turntables for 40 years? WOW! Oh wait! This is a Hanpin of China TT sold under a dozen different brands, and might be worth $300.00
DO NOT SEE ANYTHING FANTASTIC ABOUT THE $2,000 DOLLARS MARK. DO YOU?
Clamps are a no no. They alter the shape of the record hence distortion can be an issue. This is widely known
...🙄😬äääähm that,s a Numark...
Everything is a rip-off from the SL-1200. Too lazy to develop their own turntables. I'm surprised Technics didn't sue the hell out of them all for design and aesthetics.
A little stupid recommending a turntable that’s been discontinued:( ohh well
Oh yeah, this babys a cheap copy of every other DJ table and it had so many malfunctions and problems it was discontinued in like a year. The $300 snake oil cables youre connecting cost way more that this rig was ever worth. What a POS to be featuring in a high end shop, surely you can pick better gear than this for entry level merchandise.
Would love to hear your opinion on what is a great under $2k machine. Do share.