You forgot to mention (or maybe you didn't feel the need to) that Phantom Swing 2 and 3 can hit under ledge, and thus 2 frame while Zelda is under PS2's plats. Also her nair was at some point the least reliable autolink move in the game, but has since been brought to middle of the pack (the SDI multi is quite favorable for the opponent, so you can just mash up and behind Zelda and fall out).
@@firelifeblizzard8782 yes it does. You can easily prove this by doing a test with Samus’ final smash. Do 1 trial with a neutral stick, and then do a second one while sdiing up and out of the final smash; you will see a big difference. Even sakurai himself mentioned it in his demonstration of kazuya’s ten-hit combo
The problem with nair is that it isn't an autolink move. It uses several small directional hitboxes to keep the opponent in the move. That's why zelda drag down isn't a thing, other wise i could bring back my smash 4 nair drag down, up b combo.
I feel like if they gave the sour spots if Fair and Bair a bit more hit stun they would still be balanced and that way she doesn’t eat complete shit for missing the sweet spot.
That and make the move auto cancel out of a buffered short hop. Its sad that hitting the sweet spot on a buffered aerial at low percent isn't really safe on a good portion of the cast
This also kinda bothered me. He shows the hitboxes and talks about the move, but very often it's not shown on screen in action, and random unrelated footage of the character plays instead. It's also not "extremely hard to show," he'd just need to record footage of landing the move.
@@dongzuyamishikong Yes! It can also block them with the shield! I have seen a few times playing that the shield will come out and it sticks out a little further if you have a shield compared to if you don't, not a big difference, but a difference non the less :)
Really, Zelda has everything she needs in this game. Short, med, and long range covered, and a good recovery to boot - and that's just her specials. Maybe that's why people online only ever use her specials.
Her lightning kicks in melee were good, as they lasted 4 frames in melee opposed to one in brawl onwards, and the size of the sweet spot was much larger. Later games the sourspots dealt less damage and have to no knockback, and adding the fact that fair and bair got increase endlag making it a very risky move. Ever since brawl they haven't buffed the sweetspot hitboxes and sourspots of fair and bair, and the damage and knockback of the sourspots of fair and bair. The hitbox sizes for both fair and bair in ultimate are bigger than smash 4 but, it's still smaller than melees version. Her up smash was better in brawl. The whole hitbox of dins fire was the sweetspot in brawl, until they nerfed it in smash 4. Brawl minus did buff the moves by having disjointed hitboxes.
I'm sorry I know it's late in these videos to point this out, but what's with the random cutting to B-roll while talking about a move after showing it's hitbox? It always takes me a second to realize he's not showing an example of the hitbox in action.
You never pointed out how Phantom's Shield that spawns on the second to last charge can null hits on the front like Link's and Hero's shields can. Though Phantom doesn't have the animation, it just nulls. It also does the same to physical attacks, not just projectiles. This makes it hard to take out Phantom from the front unless the shield is put aside by phantom itself. The shield also has a ridiculous pushback that doesn't let you run past it.
Basically with her Bair and fair the opponent has to be in endlag for (6/7 frames if she was already in air or 9/10 frames if she was on the ground before activing said Arieal) with a character that is slow in the air and on the ground (she was actually faster in the air in Melee). Let alone if you go over the potential of any good opponent to be able punish her from the cooldown if u miss or the opponent can you know just even just merly walk out of sweet spot range(or you know Dash dancing/pretending you are advancing)... or the fact that they can potentially (might differ between characters) punish her for hitting the SWEET SPOT at low percentages%.
The sour spots of her fair and Bair seem to do only one thing put her in disadvantage because of low hitsun and they get sent nowhere. Edit: her fair and Bair was good in Melee just the only thing she had besides down smash
You need to do the latest hit of the down tilt to do combos. One way to do this is down air your opponent at mid percent, then down tilt early so that the opponent falls into the lingering hitbox, then follow up with an attack.
Down tilt is not safe at low percents. Even if she hits the opponent you can punish her. Down tilt literally has no hit-stun. Your opponent has to be at mid percents to use the move effectively.
Her sweet spot kicks at very low percents are not safe either they can just mash and hit her after her getting the sweet spot.... for at least some characters which still matters
these represent launch angles. the "+" is an autolink angle, which is designed to keep the enemy close to the player for followups or another part of the same move, and the "x" is probably the same, just turned on its side. i'll be honest i didn't notice an x that was distinctly an "x" and not just a + and can't recall an instance where i have seen one before. the lines inside the hitboxes that start from the middle also communicate the same idea, except if they're lines it is showing the angle at which the opponent will be sent
After a pretty regular afternoon in elite smash I came to the conclusion that this character does not deserve any hitbox, Zelda should have just fixed and weak windboxes that deal no damage
Reading the comments, I honestly don't get how Zelda is so weird. Like I don't understand how some people can't get moves to connect or genuinely dislike playing those who main her. I play her somewhat often and never really have issue using all of her moves, and no one I've dated against has really complained. Complemented if anything. But the same goes for other characters I play like Pythra and Sora. I guess I'm just a different kind of player.
I'm curious as to how you never got a fallout (moves not working) does not matter if against bots or players they can fallout of any multi hit move. Literally nair is still not fixed
I've never understood why the clips you play almost never have anything to do with the move your discussing. I guess just to make your life a bit easier?
I miss her smash 4 design :( She was like a solemn sorceress with a dark past Now she's a dumb stereotypical blonde happy go lucky 12 year old anime girl
@@auzzpanda3497 People have their own opinions on what they like, yours is no better than anyone elses. Don't pretend you're better than anyone else, or that you have some kind of moral high ground for liking one design over another, you crazy narcissist.
@DropkicktheDecepticon most people only like her new design because it's new(some do generally like it but considering the way things work in this world I live in) I remember the comments on the newest videos when it first came out (on I think like how her moves changed from game to game) and I also recall a crazy peach player was saying that they wanted Zelda to stay a walking sandbag to beat up......
Would it kill you to show the footage of the move in action after you display their hitboxes? Why do you always show a random move right after? This is in every video too and I always see comments about this. Pretty frustrating that you've never considered changing this and are pretty lazy with your content
While I agree it's annoying to not see the move in use in the following footage, there's no need to be so rude about it and calling the content lazy is an unnecessary stretch.
8542Madness I’m being direct because this is consistently a problem that gets commented on in every video by tons of people. Makes these videos pretty irritating to watch
@@madness1231 all the data is already available to him, all he has to do is record a descriptive voiceover Adding relevant gameplay that's not just him randomly playing as the character should be the bare minimum
@@lunarkomet I don't disagree at all, but I think there's no reason to be so rude about it. I don't imagine being an ass will convince the creator to change his approach.
Down tilt isn't that safe to use. It's minus 10 on shield meaning that most characters can grab you. I'm honestly surprised that you didn't bring up the fact that nair is one of the only multi hits in the entire game that don't use autolink angles greatly hindering the move's consistency and utility. That and the fact that move tends to launch the opponent in the opposite direction of zelda's drift making it an inconsistent edge guard and difficult to string into continued pressure. It's honestly a terrible move. Nayru's love only gives intangiblity on frames 4 to 13. That gives you 44 frames to hit her. You don't want to contest it's start up but you definitely should be contesting this move once she throws it out. The move doesn't actually have a large horizontal reach either and most of the cast has some means to space around it. For up smash, I'm surprised you didn't mention that it's one of the few up smashes in the entire game that lacks an initial launcher to launch grounded opponents into the move. Also the move has almost no vertical reach not even reaching platforms until the final hit.
Even if you get upsmash to hit when they are above on a platform they can be sent like 1 cm up in the air..... her intangible/invisible or just hitboxes(kinda don't remember because I'm kinda trying not to be a tryhard)of her up b(note aireal version is different) or/and neutral b do not fully cover her full body like why hasn't that been fixed? I guess the shards on neutral b will forever stay as mostly not there unlike what it visually seen. And stale-ness effects shield stun safety? Also when reading smash ultimate data if you consider that like for example her fair is like frame 6/7 but that's if you where already in the air when activating it if you where on starting it from the ground you have to add 3 more frames(jump squat) which some people do not consider. Her teloport worked more properly in Brawl than it does now with it grabbing ledge and the fact that they made it where it can VERY EASILY put her in free fall just because of a platform which does NOT MAKE sense. Why would I want a teloport that will ignore my input(from being in the sky off to the side of the whole stage) to go underneath the platform (in some sernios)where the opponent is to hit them with it and instead go on the platfrom into disadvantage.
Minus 10 on shield is pretty safe. The fastest grabs are frame 6 and shield grab adds 4 frames to that, so the fastest grabs would be perfectly matched speed wise with down tilt on shield. But many grabs are also super stubby. Especially fast ones.
@@Ninjaananas zelda's spot dodge provides intangiblity on frame 3. This gives her opponent 12 frames to land a guaranteed punish. Most shield grabs are frame 10-11 making them a guaranteed. Zelda also leaves her hurt box extended for the entirety of the move's cool down making it a lot easier for short moves to hit her.
@gameboyn64 The fastest grabs are frame 6. Grabbing out of shield adds 4 frames to that. The fastest grabs out of shield are frame 10. Not most, but the fastest. Zelda's body has reverted back to her original position at that point and her down tilt has enough range to space out many of those grabs. For other attacks, Zelda can already shield herself at that point.
Wow. I’d always assumed that Phantom was the same animation, just with different parts of the phantom added.
You can clearly see its not ingame
You forgot to mention that Zelda's grab comes out slower than most grabs, which is why it has extra range to make up for that drawback
since I don't play as zelda, only playing against zeldas online, most of these moves I had never seen before.
I faced a Zelda before but it was teleport spammer
💀
I'm incredibly disappointed you didn't show the hitboxes for her final smash (the best one in the game)
He never shows the FS
@@Triforce_of_Doom That’s true but Zelda’s is stupid
@@Scarfy_0S TAKE THAT BACK IT'S ELITE
@@actualzelda NEVER, LET GO OF THE B BUTTON FIRST D:
@@Scarfy_0S Zelda can teleport I got teleport spammer but I won it was online
You forgot to mention (or maybe you didn't feel the need to) that Phantom Swing 2 and 3 can hit under ledge, and thus 2 frame while Zelda is under PS2's plats. Also her nair was at some point the least reliable autolink move in the game, but has since been brought to middle of the pack (the SDI multi is quite favorable for the opponent, so you can just mash up and behind Zelda and fall out).
Yah. Nair was a joke.
SDI doesn't exist in ultimate
Yeah Zelda nair was probably one of the worst non-little mac aerials in the game before it was fixed
@@firelifeblizzard8782 yes it does. You can easily prove this by doing a test with Samus’ final smash. Do 1 trial with a neutral stick, and then do a second one while sdiing up and out of the final smash; you will see a big difference. Even sakurai himself mentioned it in his demonstration of kazuya’s ten-hit combo
The problem with nair is that it isn't an autolink move. It uses several small directional hitboxes to keep the opponent in the move. That's why zelda drag down isn't a thing, other wise i could bring back my smash 4 nair drag down, up b combo.
If I do not see the final smash hitbox I will riot cause ref something ain't right
Riot
"HHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU--YAAHH"
You can't see it cause it's everywhere
8:20 "Zelda builds a Phantom..." gave me ZeFrank documentary vibes with his enunciation & I love it😆
I feel like if they gave the sour spots if Fair and Bair a bit more hit stun they would still be balanced and that way she doesn’t eat complete shit for missing the sweet spot.
That and make the move auto cancel out of a buffered short hop. Its sad that hitting the sweet spot on a buffered aerial at low percent isn't really safe on a good portion of the cast
Or maybe make it last a bit longer, or make the sweet spot bigger. Because as it is the reward is way too hard to get
Ganondorf suffers from this too. Would have somewhat confirms if his nair sour didn't combo even to jab until 135%
Please show the move hitting an enemy after showing the hitboxes, Seeing the hitboxes but not in action is just so upsetting
that’s gonna be extremely hard to show…
@@matthewcabagelover9993 why? he already has zelda there in training mode...
This also kinda bothered me. He shows the hitboxes and talks about the move, but very often it's not shown on screen in action, and random unrelated footage of the character plays instead. It's also not "extremely hard to show," he'd just need to record footage of landing the move.
And also the framedata would be nice.
Okay so I'm not the only one noticing this
Her knight had an extra stage between the last stage, it only changes whether the knight has a shield and can block projectiles or not 😀
Phantom can block projectiles with its shield? I thought it could only body block projectiles!
@@dongzuyamishikong Yes! It can also block them with the shield! I have seen a few times playing that the shield will come out and it sticks out a little further if you have a shield compared to if you don't, not a big difference, but a difference non the less :)
I would have loved to see the colateral hitboxes on her down-throw, but not a biggie.
Yes, the best content of the channel
Really, Zelda has everything she needs in this game. Short, med, and long range covered, and a good recovery to boot - and that's just her specials.
Maybe that's why people online only ever use her specials.
Her lightning kicks in melee were good, as they lasted 4 frames in melee opposed to one in brawl onwards, and the size of the sweet spot was much larger. Later games the sourspots dealt less damage and have to no knockback, and adding the fact that fair and bair got increase endlag making it a very risky move. Ever since brawl they haven't buffed the sweetspot hitboxes and sourspots of fair and bair, and the damage and knockback of the sourspots of fair and bair. The hitbox sizes for both fair and bair in ultimate are bigger than smash 4 but, it's still smaller than melees version.
Her up smash was better in brawl. The whole hitbox of dins fire was the sweetspot in brawl, until they nerfed it in smash 4.
Brawl minus did buff the moves by having disjointed hitboxes.
1:56 training room stage + video compression = ow
Can you make a custom moves video? Your more analytical style of content creation would suit them well I think!
I'm sorry I know it's late in these videos to point this out, but what's with the random cutting to B-roll while talking about a move after showing it's hitbox? It always takes me a second to realize he's not showing an example of the hitbox in action.
rekzius I think your next hitbox analysis video should be about incineroar! he's got some crazy hitboxes!
Y’see, Zelda is the champion of Smash Meter Wi-Fi
Should've talked about her hurtbox if you catch my drift 😏
I have a friend who mains Zelda and lands lightning kicks like it's nothing. It's terrifying to see just how strict that move is
Oh I've been so excited for this, thank you!!!
You never pointed out how Phantom's Shield that spawns on the second to last charge can null hits on the front like Link's and Hero's shields can. Though Phantom doesn't have the animation, it just nulls. It also does the same to physical attacks, not just projectiles. This makes it hard to take out Phantom from the front unless the shield is put aside by phantom itself. The shield also has a ridiculous pushback that doesn't let you run past it.
as a Zelda main
I've gotten kills off of phantom pushing people alone
@@siriuslywastaken yep or pushing them right into whatever nasty attack Zelda could have waiting for them
0:00 me and my good afternoon😔
"One of the sweetest spots, to be exact." It's her toes. Hmmmmm...
oh hey you're alive lol
Man i love this series
What does her down tilt combo into? It's 0 advantage of hitsun
Basically with her Bair and fair the opponent has to be in endlag for (6/7 frames if she was already in air or 9/10 frames if she was on the ground before activing said Arieal) with a character that is slow in the air and on the ground (she was actually faster in the air in Melee). Let alone if you go over the potential of any good opponent to be able punish her from the cooldown if u miss or the opponent can you know just even just merly walk out of sweet spot range(or you know Dash dancing/pretending you are advancing)... or the fact that they can potentially (might differ between characters) punish her for hitting the SWEET SPOT at low percentages%.
The sour spots of her fair and Bair seem to do only one thing put her in disadvantage because of low hitsun and they get sent nowhere.
Edit: her fair and Bair was good in Melee just the only thing she had besides down smash
You need to do the latest hit of the down tilt to do combos. One way to do this is down air your opponent at mid percent, then down tilt early so that the opponent falls into the lingering hitbox, then follow up with an attack.
9:53
"very needed"
i was expecting to see 2 hitboxes for zelda's up air. i know it has a sour spot
I would love to see a ken and ryu hitbox video
everything before dash attack is a circle
Down tilt is not safe at low percents. Even if she hits the opponent you can punish her. Down tilt literally has no hit-stun. Your opponent has to be at mid percents to use the move effectively.
Her sweet spot kicks at very low percents are not safe either they can just mash and hit her after her getting the sweet spot.... for at least some characters which still matters
At 40%+ Down air then down tilt. The opponent will fall into the lingering hitbox. will allow you to combo into things easier
Also at just 20%, down air, down tilt, dash attack
@@noahlovotti7722 Okay that’s still mid percents for all these. 40 is mid. Down air at 20 will lead into late 30s which is almost mid percent.
@@TwilightWonderer yeah that's true. If down tilt had more hitstun certain combos would be easier at low. Better to use up tilt at zero.
Wait Zelda's nair is a multihit? I've only ever been able to hit once with it
Buff Zelda.
if only
I want buffs and fixes...
Her neutral air is actually quite inconsistent… as long as there is some air momentum, the opponent would likely fall out of it
I still miss the breakable Phantom
It is still breakable, if you hit her as she charges it or deal enough damage to the phantom itself (not the shield)
@@xenoph4144 yeah, but it won't make her unable to use it like in Smash 4
@@arthurpprado fair enough, it honestly only adds like 10 more frames of end lag but ultimate is more fast paced anyway so it checks out regardless
Can some one explain what the x and + mean in the hit boxes
these represent launch angles. the "+" is an autolink angle, which is designed to keep the enemy close to the player for followups or another part of the same move, and the "x" is probably the same, just turned on its side. i'll be honest i didn't notice an x that was distinctly an "x" and not just a + and can't recall an instance where i have seen one before. the lines inside the hitboxes that start from the middle also communicate the same idea, except if they're lines it is showing the angle at which the opponent will be sent
@@matthewhitchcock9555 thanks
@@matthewhitchcock9555 + is the sakurai angle
x is the auto link one
Zelda is a terror if you are a zoner who lacks a reflector
Mega Man?
ness
*Inb4 Jojokes with Zelda's Down B* 🤣
Am I crazy or is this pose ay 7:23 a Jojo reference, I think it's Kira's pose if I'm correct?
Go outside and touch grass.
After a pretty regular afternoon in elite smash I came to the conclusion that this character does not deserve any hitbox, Zelda should have just fixed and weak windboxes that deal no damage
How are you still losing to Zeldas online
Firelifeblizzard dude I’m just kidding, they are annoying to play against nonetheless
@@firelifeblizzard8782 Zelda is hard to beat online… assuming they know what they’re doing
@@lpgoodgamer7137 But most just randomly up special into me and give me free punishes. Over and over and over....
Reading the comments, I honestly don't get how Zelda is so weird. Like I don't understand how some people can't get moves to connect or genuinely dislike playing those who main her. I play her somewhat often and never really have issue using all of her moves, and no one I've dated against has really complained. Complemented if anything. But the same goes for other characters I play like Pythra and Sora. I guess I'm just a different kind of player.
If you’ve never been flamed for playing Zelda then you must be the 1% of Zelda players that don’t camp for the whole match
@@quantumgargoyle3888 Yeah I don't camp. I'm kind of aggressive with Zelda tbh.
@@quantumgargoyle3888 Cool name by the way.
@@zichithefox4781 appreciated
I'm curious as to how you never got a fallout (moves not working) does not matter if against bots or players they can fallout of any multi hit move. Literally nair is still not fixed
Zelda B e D own B ad :(
I've never understood why the clips you play almost never have anything to do with the move your discussing. I guess just to make your life a bit easier?
We early bois!
I miss her smash 4 design :(
She was like a solemn sorceress with a dark past
Now she's a dumb stereotypical blonde happy go lucky 12 year old anime girl
Technically she’s like 16, but you’re right.
@DropkicktheDecepticon
Yeah because everyone else is taught that a weak, submissive little girl is what's supposed to be attractive.
at least she got buffed, she was horrible to use in sm4sh, also now she looks happy, in sm4sh looks like she don't even want to be there
@@auzzpanda3497 People have their own opinions on what they like, yours is no better than anyone elses. Don't pretend you're better than anyone else, or that you have some kind of moral high ground for liking one design over another, you crazy narcissist.
@DropkicktheDecepticon most people only like her new design because it's new(some do generally like it but considering the way things work in this world I live in) I remember the comments on the newest videos when it first came out (on I think like how her moves changed from game to game) and I also recall a crazy peach player was saying that they wanted Zelda to stay a walking sandbag to beat up......
Would it kill you to show the footage of the move in action after you display their hitboxes? Why do you always show a random move right after? This is in every video too and I always see comments about this. Pretty frustrating that you've never considered changing this and are pretty lazy with your content
While I agree it's annoying to not see the move in use in the following footage, there's no need to be so rude about it and calling the content lazy is an unnecessary stretch.
8542Madness I’m being direct because this is consistently a problem that gets commented on in every video by tons of people. Makes these videos pretty irritating to watch
DropkicktheDecepticon great argument
@@madness1231 all the data is already available to him, all he has to do is record a descriptive voiceover
Adding relevant gameplay that's not just him randomly playing as the character should be the bare minimum
@@lunarkomet I don't disagree at all, but I think there's no reason to be so rude about it. I don't imagine being an ass will convince the creator to change his approach.
Down tilt isn't that safe to use. It's minus 10 on shield meaning that most characters can grab you.
I'm honestly surprised that you didn't bring up the fact that nair is one of the only multi hits in the entire game that don't use autolink angles greatly hindering the move's consistency and utility. That and the fact that move tends to launch the opponent in the opposite direction of zelda's drift making it an inconsistent edge guard and difficult to string into continued pressure. It's honestly a terrible move.
Nayru's love only gives intangiblity on frames 4 to 13. That gives you 44 frames to hit her. You don't want to contest it's start up but you definitely should be contesting this move once she throws it out. The move doesn't actually have a large horizontal reach either and most of the cast has some means to space around it.
For up smash, I'm surprised you didn't mention that it's one of the few up smashes in the entire game that lacks an initial launcher to launch grounded opponents into the move. Also the move has almost no vertical reach not even reaching platforms until the final hit.
Even if you get upsmash to hit when they are above on a platform they can be sent like 1 cm up in the air..... her intangible/invisible or just hitboxes(kinda don't remember because I'm kinda trying not to be a tryhard)of her up b(note aireal version is different) or/and neutral b do not fully cover her full body like why hasn't that been fixed? I guess the shards on neutral b will forever stay as mostly not there unlike what it visually seen.
And stale-ness effects shield stun safety?
Also when reading smash ultimate data if you consider that like for example her fair is like frame 6/7 but that's if you where already in the air when activating it if you where on starting it from the ground you have to add 3 more frames(jump squat) which some people do not consider. Her teloport worked more properly in Brawl than it does now with it grabbing ledge and the fact that they made it where it can VERY EASILY put her in free fall just because of a platform which does NOT MAKE sense. Why would I want a teloport that will ignore my input(from being in the sky off to the side of the whole stage) to go underneath the platform (in some sernios)where the opponent is to hit them with it and instead go on the platfrom into disadvantage.
This is literally the anti-"Zelda is top tier" comment. And its not wrong at all.
Minus 10 on shield is pretty safe. The fastest grabs are frame 6 and shield grab adds 4 frames to that, so the fastest grabs would be perfectly matched speed wise with down tilt on shield. But many grabs are also super stubby. Especially fast ones.
@@Ninjaananas zelda's spot dodge provides intangiblity on frame 3. This gives her opponent 12 frames to land a guaranteed punish. Most shield grabs are frame 10-11 making them a guaranteed. Zelda also leaves her hurt box extended for the entirety of the move's cool down making it a lot easier for short moves to hit her.
@gameboyn64
The fastest grabs are frame 6. Grabbing out of shield adds 4 frames to that. The fastest grabs out of shield are frame 10. Not most, but the fastest. Zelda's body has reverted back to her original position at that point and her down tilt has enough range to space out many of those grabs. For other attacks, Zelda can already shield herself at that point.
That is not a real word 💀
It is.