10 EXTREMELY UNDERRATED Smash Ultimate Moves
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 3 апр 2024
- Smash Ultimate has a pretty balanced roster, which means a lot of good moves on a lot of good characters, but the best still tend to rise to the top. Today let's dive into some great attacks that don't get the same kind of attention from the community; maybe because the character it's attached to isn't at the top of the tier list, maybe because it has some obscure tech behind it, maybe just...because. I looked at this topic on MockRock a few years back and have gotten a lot of requests for a revisit over the years, so let's dive in!
Original video: • The Top 10 UNDERRATED ...
______________________________________________
Main channel: / mockrocktv
Twitter: / mrmockrock
Patreon: / mockrock
Twitch: / mockrocktwitch
Business email: MockRockYT@gmail.com
Teespring: teespring.com/stores/mockrock
______________________________________________
Music used:
"MockRock Is Here (Relaxed)" - MockRock
"MockRock is Here" - MockRock
Other songs withheld to avoid spoilers
All original music, as well as its stems, are available for download to patrons, RUclips members, and Twitch subscribers.
______________________________________________
Thanks for watching!
#SmashUltimate #Nintendo #SuperSmashBros 
Игры
![Darren Waller - Who Knew (Her Perspective) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GytDjB8u6bM/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks for watching! What did you think of the list? This is a topic I've gotten a lot of requests to revisit, so if you think there's a good candidate I missed, feel free to let me know and maybe it'll pop up in another episode at some point! Also need to give a correction: all jabs besides the honourable mention are frame 2. As for the original video this came from, you can watch it here if you'd like: ruclips.net/video/kghWfaMQEWs/видео.htmlsi=vhVEZ1f862eJL3EG
*Main channel:* ruclips.net/user/mockrocktv
*Twitter:* twitter.com/MrMockRock
*Patreon:* www.patreon.com/mockrock
*Twitch:* www.twitch.tv/mockrocktwitch
*Teespring:* teespring.com/stores/mockrock
Mii Brawler Burning Drop Kick (Side B 2) gets overshadowed by suplex a lot but BDK has many use cases, such as being a good recovery option that can grab ledge with a big hitbox, the increased momentum on the b-reverse version, and the bouncing off shields that can make it a great burst option which is decent on shield and sends at a low angle which sets up for ledgetraps and edgeguards.
I think it would be interesting to see a move tier list (similar to ESAM’s)
I really like this list
Really informative vid
I just want to note the hitbox of ram is uptilt sometimes hits behind her. Yeah.
Ah, poor pits. What kind of mandela effect is making so many people see a solid back air as bottom tier like this? At least we got an immaculate Mockrock segment out of it. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: we need more mildly unhinged MockRock on this channel.
How did this message happen 4 hours ago 💀
Probably patreon
I'm guessing that people can't see the trees for the forest, if that makes sense. People are aware of Pit and Dark Pit being incredibly balanced mid-tiers, so they assume that every aspect of them is remarkably unremarkable. In reality, Ultimate is so well balanced that even mid-tier and low-tier characters have some excellent tools at their disposal.
Wasn't that move buffed? I'm pretty sure the sour spot wasn't that safe back in the day, but I could be wrong. Not that the move was bad before, it was still solid/good
@@The_SafeKeeperyoung Link is still pretty good even when he is on the upper end of mid
Glad someone finally acknowledged how Sakurai straight up lied to our faces when he said Daisy's moves "behave differently" than Peach's.
Weird thing is that the Turnips where different... Like SLIGHTLY.
And as soon as people figured out that difference, it was changed to match how peach's turnips worked.
It was at the point that you could question why is that little difference there, and why did they bother changing it.
yeah because "nobody" talked about that before this video
@@bloodbandittvSince Daisy was using Peach’s data from Sm4sh, it was likely an oversight when copying data. Now, patching Daisy to be identical is just a baffling design decision.
15:55 did not expect to see a set from my local here man does his research 😂
When you're trying to find specific footage of obscure characters you need to dig pretty deep sometimes haha
I have an honorable mention. Lucario nair. It’s -1 at WORST. Combo starter, combo extender, edge guarding tool, creates tech chases, and kills at high auras. The only down side being its frame 10 on start up
i main lucario and it truly leads to everything, even grabs
The issue people have with it is that it's a bit harder to just throw out in neutral, but when you know how to use it, it gets absolutely diabolical.
As someone who for the longest time was advocating for how broken Corrin’s up air was, I cannot tell you how satisfying it felt when people started to also realize “Wait. That move is actually horseshit”. But then the monkey’s paw curled and it became spammed. So seeing you advocate for 10 MORE moves that could turn into a Corrin up air situation, I pray it isn’t the same outcome
Also you uploaded at the perfect time for me since I was literally just rewatching one of your older videos :)
Why is it bad?
Also another move that Corrin has that almost can match Falcon's Down B (Falcon Kick) is the Dragon Lunge/Instapin. Obviously people know of how scary it is now, but even without the kill power it's almost surprising how much distance Corrin gets with the kick. It can sometimes just turn into a decent burst mobility option in a pinch, which is both fun and terrifying. As Corrin already isn't incredibly slow but the fact they just have that option is wacky.
I knew this move was some shit a few years ago. was trying to get Marth into elite smash and kept getting horrible match ups and losing. got frustrated and started playing corrin for fun. and realized "wait up air is kinda nutty vs falcon" then played a puff and was like "ok this just beats jumping super hard that is nice" and then played a little mac to get into elite smash and concluded "Corrin up air is so good it is the reason to play the character"
Same, that move is like Ike,'s but faster
Can we get some props for Robin's neutral air? The Levin version in particular is a Frame 7 disjoint that outspaces 90% of the roster, deals semispike knockback, and kills outright offstage at ungodly percents. Yet a lot of the community seems to forget Robin has a sword at all, much less a sword move that matches the reach of Shulk's forward air with _half_ as much startup!
I had a few Robin moves on the shortlist, but I ended up deciding that a lot of people already kinda know that Levin Sword moves are good lol. Nair was definitely the frontrunner though, the reach on that thing is nuts
Dude I’m just bad at this game…I love playing Robin but for the love of God I have never landed his neutral air on anybody. I only win neutral by arcfiring and thunder/arcthunder/elthundering…I will try harder in the future.
Robin neutral air is so damn good
"Levin Sword neutral air was a mistake" is the only thought that goes through my head when playing with my Robin-playing friend. It's ridiculous.
I KNOW YOU
Meta Knight's new Drill Rush tech is really cool, thanks for including it!
far from new
@@wilsonsecaur1015 It felt like yesterday since I first saw the tech being used in tournaments. It could just be me.
An extra note about Falco's Nair is how much damage each multi-hit does.
Each multi-hit before the final hit does about 3% for each hit, rather then 0.5% - 1% for most multi-hit moves.
Landing the Nair dragdown multiple times and during combos can rack an insane amount of damage
As a Falcon main, one other use case for falcon kick is, seriously, ledge guarding. A lot of characters that are good offstage like to drift in horizontally to keep their options open. If you punish this once with a surprise falcon kick, that will definitely kill, they'll start recovering low every time, opening the door for that juicy dair.
90% of the time ur just going to get reverse edge guardedl, falcon kick at ledge is just a meme option lol
@@colmharrison4191 It's surprisingly deceptive for 3 reasons:
1) it's diagonal
2) it's a stall-n-fall move
3) surprisingly powerful; takes stocks pretty early if you're even just slightly off-stage
It's definitely not "a good edge-guarding tool" per se, but like OP mentioned a pretty solid one in combination with what Falcon's overall gameplan is: opressing the opponent. Not giving them respite.
I'm by no means a good player, but if i have a stock lead and sit at kill-percent i am using this to intercept instead of trying to do a 'legit' edge guard with downair
Also "Why does this kill so early? That's BS" will never get old haha
Sidenote on Falco's nair : in smash 4 it used to have a windbox that would make it consistent even on shorter characters while keeping pretty much the same hitbox. It got removed in ultimate and I really don't know why
(btw falco's nair is the most underrated move in smash 4 to me)
might be to compensate a bit for the fact that falco is a much better overall character in ult compared to 4
It's not a reason to nerf a move by making it inconsistent that's just the stupidest way to balance a character
Oh how I love Smash 4 Falco.
@@wazo1170 They didn't really make it inconsistent, they gave it a blind spot where you just can't use it at all
Whether it deserved a nerf like that is a different subject but it's not the only move they did it to (Ike Bair for instance also got changed to only hit higher and now it has major issues against short characters)
I thought it was known falco nair was good
Despite the blindspot
Alright, soapbox time: Duck Hunt’s nair. No, I’m not kidding.
It’s one of those moves that’s hard to see as good unless you play a lot of the character, but as a DH main, it is SO versatile. The strong hit deals a good chunk of damage and can even kill in some scenarios, but the real utility in my opinion comes when combining it with a fast fall. The recovery time after landing is minimal so you can easily follow it up with a jab combo or interrupt, and if you don’t fast fall, it auto-cancels. This is super useful if someone is trying to rush you down and you need to throw out a non-committal hitbox; but even its weak hit is enough to break people’s momentum. Once that happens, you have an opening to chase your opponent with a grab or dash attack, or even just run away to make more space.
With platforms, though? Nair becomes another beast altogether. After pushing someone off a platform, you can dash forward and use a fast fall nair to keep the combo going, and if the strong hitbox connects then they’ll be pushed at a low angle and likely tumble. This opens them up for a jab/down tilt lock, a trap with the gunman, or a forward smash. If the weak hitbox connects, then the low recovery time still gives you an opportunity to connect since the opponent still has to deal with a bit of hitstun.
Need to get off a platform safely? Fast fall nair. Have a can you need to reverse on a platform? Hit it with the back half of nair. Need an easy gimp? Nair, even the weak hitbox. Want to cross up the opponent safely? Put out gunman then nair behind them while they’re forced into an option. (This is even better if it’s a RAR nair!)
I honestly think this move is the most underrated in Duck Hunt’s kit. It’s amazingly versatile and really fun once you work out the situations it excels in.
Finally, another Duck Hunt player who thinks their nair isn't as bad as everyone else says it is.
I actually completely agree and I barely play him
We have a good MK in my region and the amount of times he's done the stupid ledge thing with drill rush is ludicrous.
But also funny.
It's not only good but super easy to do
I don't play mk that much in ultimate compared to other smash games for obvious reasons but I can just throw this out and kill
Meta Knight is so fun to play, and I'm not even all that good at playing him!
Plant mains finally seeing their character get some form of recognition:
xD
Bruh m2k was saying since day 1 that grab is frame 6 or something stupid like that lol. Thats faster than so many tilts
Real
aint even why it's so great either. jab 3 happens to be -13. when spaced it can be kinda annoying to punish. fair warning, nair drag down is negative on hit at low percents, mockrock was kinda lying there
@@empanothing frame 6 is the default
Lucas' kit in general is by far the most underrated in the game. He has amazing buttons, is well rounded, good fall speed, hits like a truck, amazing edgeguarding... what's not to love?
Online
PKFIREPKFIREPKFIREPKFIREPKFIREPKFIREPKFREEZEPKFREEZEPKFIREPKFIREPKFIREPKFIREPKFIREPKFIREPKFIREPKFIREPKFIREPKFIREPKFIREPKFIREPKFREEZEPKFIREPKFIREPKFIREPKFIREPKFIREPKFIREPKFREEZE
His PK thunder gimps half the cast and also is one of the best recoveries in terms of pure distance
Exactly
Uhhh……… ummmm……… pk fire bad
@@angelogaray8019It’s a fucking movement tool.
honorable mentions should go to ALL of mewtwo's tilts tbh. down-tilt is super fast and combos into his up-tilt, which can start a juggle if you know where the opponent's going
Here's my addition: Lucario Nair. It's reasonably large, leads to combos, lingers for 11 frames, and edgegaurds. But the crazy thing is, it's can be -2 on shield WITHOUT AURA. With max aura, it can be ZERO on shield. It's only flaw is that its relatively slow, at frame 10.
One of the best moves for pressuring opponents on platforms, does good damage if you connect both hits, definitely a really good move, maybe Lucario's best.
Lucario nair is extremely good but I wouldn't call it underrated. I hear a lot of lucario nair praise lol
It's a cute nair
Lucario main here! This move is insane and is arguably a top 10 nair in the game!
@@1mrcow143 To be honest, I don't think it's arguably one of the best, based on stats alone, it's definitely top ten. -0 speaks for itself.
Little correction on Mewtwo's F-Tilt: it's -13/-14 on shield, not -15/-16. Ultimate Frame Data gets this wrong for some reason.
Also I'm surprised you didn't mention that F-Tilt confirms out of drag down Nair at any percent! That's so broken.
Good catch, idk why that'd be wrong in their database, maybe a z-axis issue on some characters. As for confirming out of nair, I actually collected a clip of that (and killing to boot), but I intentionally tried to avoid just giving big lists of every move that combo into my choices since a) it's often self-explanatory, and b) can be more of a comment on the combo starters. I tried to hit the biggest ones, but out of the 50+ vods I ran through for this video, I only saw Mewtwo players opt for ftilt after nair over other options a few times.
If you talk about lucas... my boy... love up air but why not F-air! -2 on shield . Kills , disjointed , sour spot for tech chasing . Really freaking good move
Ness F tilt is a super underrated move, and every time I kill someone with it they’re like “That kills???” The move isn’t ridiculous or anything, but I swear absolutely no one knows about it and how much it can do
I feel like Mewtwo Dash Attack and F-Tilt are a parallel. Dash Attack looks brutal but isn’t much of a killer. F-Tilt looks tame but is a surprisingly strong kill move.
I like using Pit's back air out of hitstun since it shifts his hurtbox away quite a bit and takes you out of tumble for fast fall. Helps as a mixup against a surprising amount of fake combos.
Your falcon kick explanation was great. Everyone I talk to says falcon has a good oos cause it's a command grab with fairly good drift and range. I'm like... bruh. It's frame 14. Good players always spot dodge vs falcon when they toss out an aerial on shield. And if you're expecting the up B, it's pretty punishable even with drift. Fsfk is definitely better, it just sucks cause we can only do it if they literally land on top of us.
Edit: also falcon kick kills way earlier than it should when you catch someone with bad di lol. I've killed a joker game 5 last hit in bracket cause I hadn't used it all set and he was at like 90% lmao.
Yoshi's double jump armor let's em escape meta knight's side b... and without that final hit meta knight falls like a rock. It might just be an inconsistency but I've experienced it first hand.
Wow the companion video to the overrated moves video came super fast
RosaLuma Nair, Back Air, Starbits and Luma Down Tilt, I think, are Rosalina & Luma's most underrated moves - definitley enough there to be able to talk about
One underrated move that comes to my mind is Villager Nair. Frame 3 startup, -4 on shield, very great for edgeguards, can lead into more aireals, decent out of shield option, good hitbox. I know most villager players would use forward and back air for edgeguards and zoning but when opponents are right below the ledge and can avoid forward smash, Nair is almost perfect.
I’d like to nominate Yoshi’s jab. It’s essentially a combination of the two jabs listed here, since it’s frame 3, it can set up tech chases, and has a kill confirm with jab 1 -> Yoshi bomb. In addition, it’s also safer on shield than the jabs listed, at -10 and -11 for jab 1 and 2 respectively.
I’m so glad someone finally mentioned piranha plant’s jab. I currently main plant and jab is honestly such a good underrated tool on his kit and is a jab a lot of better characters would benefit from. Hoping to see someone take piranha plant seriously one day.
For Lucario, I want to bring up Forward Tilt and Down Air
F-Tilt is one of Lucario's greater approach options with good knockback and a secondary hitbox that can catch people who are not expecting it. It also has good shield poking and is a pretty safe option as well. Running F-Tilt is really good to also catch retreating opponents and can get a KO at high enough damage.
Down Air is pretty fast and is one of Lucario's more reliable out of shield options. It can also be a good get off move for anytime he whiffs or hits the opponent's shield if the opponent doesn't react fast enough. Those two moves would be my candidate for a good underrated move from Lucario
Olimar’s Winged Pikmin is unironically one of the best recoveries in the game as well as allowing really sick movement options and ladder combos. Criminally underrated.
13:56 For some reason I can't escape the Shinji chair lately. Take my chuckles, you've earned them.
I did not expect Brennan Lee Mulligan's lips to appear in a MockRock video!
the crossover we never knew we needed
Banjo & Kazooie - Breegal Blaster w/ Breegal blaster Cancels
Honestly even without them it is really good. Kill confirm, consistent combos at all percents, anit airs, frame traps. Really the only downside is the damage output, but since it is a zair with a higher risk reward ratio seems fair.
that marth clip had me howling
I'm so glad you included Lucas up-air in this video, I always found it insane how NO ONE complains about it. But that's cuz 90% of Lucas players are known for being annoying and dumb lol
As a Lucas player, I agree with your assesment. Though, for a potential follow up video, I'd like to propose bair as well. It's -6 at worst (-4 at the sweet spot), and is a very strong spike which sends at an angle away from him. If the opponent is spiked offstage, they can't tech even if they DI in. Landing it grounded also has so much hitstun that Lucas can combo it into up air, fair, and even itself for an offstage spike for kills and till ludicrous percents. Its only downsides are somewhat short range and it's easy to parry.
I was hoping a Mii move will get another shout out and seeing Mii Gunner on the list (my personal favourite of them Miis) brings me so much joy.
My only thing with Dr. Mario's jab 1 is that you essentially have to hit them as close as possible for the confirm to work. It has three hitboxes that all send at an auto-link angle, but the furthest one barely sends them anywhere and sometimes even makes jab 2 whiff. Still my favorite kill confirm tho.
On the topic of Dr. Mario, Super Sheet is a pretty fun move, not only because you can b-reverse it for mix-up and sometimes landing, but it can also 2-frame and it can lead into d-tilt, d-smash, down-angled f-tilt, or up special (tho iirc it's a bit character dependent).
Ditto.
@@MrGameguyC No, not Ditto. You can't play Ditto, it's a ball-exclusive pokemon
These types of videos are the best. I love the explanations for moves, discussing what makes them good, etc. Even if the moves aren't the top 10 best, explaining why the less flashy moves are these unsung heroes is still incredibly interesting.
I'd probably nominate Kirby's bair. It's a cross between Mario's and Falco's in terms of frame data and knockback (frame 6, -5 on shield, kills around under 100% at ledge), but it's also huge and flattens Kirby's hitbox. It's really hard to contest in neutral because it beats out most hitboxes (the move does almost 16% and is slightly disjointed) and Kirby's low jump height means that it can be used both rising and falling. Comboes out of up-tilt at a wide percent range, and landing back air can start comboes / mixups if you get the autocancel. It's also a fantastic tool for platform tech chases at high percent or frame trapping air dodges, and of course it meshes perfectly with Kirby's already amazing edgeguarding.
Echo fighters were truly a feature of smash ultimate
If I could pick Sakurai's brain about anything, it would mostly be about echo fighters. Why some were allowed to have some differences and others no differences. It drives me crazy to no end.
@@kicksyo2171especially with samus and dark samus. I feel like at least their physics should have been different
@@kicksyo2171 Gonna guess most of them started as skins and then they thought it felt weird to have so many of them while the roster also had full clone characters like Lucina and Dark Pit
@@user-jw2it4qf2r IIRC it was this way in Smash 4. Lucina, Doctor Mario, and Dark Pit were going to be alts but changed. The strange part to me, at least for Dark Samus, is that they have a lot of completely unique animations, which you don't make overnight. But all that effort was done to just, make them near identical to normal Samus?
@@MeatyMani fun Mock brings up their axe kick. It's fine on Samus, but it looks really out of place on Dark Samus. It looks too human for an alien.
On the topic of “scrub moves” because of how often low level players spam them, I think Zelda’s neutral B is pretty underrated. Yes, it’s good as a combo breaker and get-off-me tool (even though it’s horrifically punishable on shield) but an underrated aspect of it is how good it is at edge guarding.
Zelda is invincible on frames 4-13, and the move comes out at frame 11. Those 9 frames mean that the recoveries that are typically hard to edgeguard because of their accompanying hitboxes (Roy up B is the first thing that comes to mind) become shockingly easy to intercept.
Also being able to reflect things is also nice
You can do two Ness Nairs in one short hop... that is all
True! Very solid kill power as well.
You can even do one after a short hop Bair.
Man I loved this video, as someone who enjoys the competitive aspect of smash but isn't *that* much into it, I didn't know a lot of this stuff and it was so cool so see all the uses cases of moves that I thought were just fine. Meta Knight and Samus especially left me flabbergasted
I'm so happy you talked about Lucas up air I don't even play the character but when I get him on random I cook with that move
As a piranha plant user, I do need to use gentleman jab more but yeah how quick the move comes out is definitely vital for me. Though I will say up air really is something that I think is better than Lucas's up air overall. I do like the idea that Lucas does easily combo with his midair jump, but for piranha plan not only is it also a good combo maker for opponents in the air, but it also can kill fairly early for how quick the move is.
Always love these, great work!
My suggestion is greninja's up-air. Its a frame-7 multi-hit aerial, with drag-down potential. You can combo into it out of dash attack, what makes this move really good is how it interacts with greninja's high jumps and the ability to link into itself out of short-hop. This can lead to extended juggles which net large amounts of damage on some characters. Up-air is greninja's best method for racking up damage quickly, which is convenient because it also kills. Also going to mention shulk's up-tilt.
As a greninja main, I LOVE chaining up airs at low percentages and make all my friends rage
Mockrock is the best smash RUclipsr in terms of being a cross between informative and entertaining. Perfect sweet spot
"Pit bair bad because sourspot don't kill" my brother in christ landed sour bair can combo into another back air
On the topic of echo fighters, sometimes I wonder if that line in Daisy’s reveal trailer was just about her different visual effects in terms of “different behaviour”, since the turnip patch clearly shows they don’t want any gameplay differences between the two.
I've got a clip saved of a falco missing 3 or 4 nairs in a row and I definitely thought I should've been it but this video makes it make sense
Another really slept on lucas pick is bair. Fat hitbox, nasty combo and kill potential, good frame data, spammable as hell, and stylish
Great video Mock! Very enjoyable
I think after seeing BOBC that Breegull Blaster deserves a spot. The way it messes with hitstop when you attack an egg and how Banjo can immediately cancel it into something like FSmash or Wonderwing makes it a beast
I see all those guitars :) guitar is awesome. Its been so satisfying for me to actually get a foothold on this extremely overwhelming instrument. Id totally watch if u made a video talking about your guitar journey
As a samus comain, her tilts are INCREDIBLE. up tilt not only does everything mentioned as an edge trap move but also provides playform coverage for tech situations. Down tilt is really safe and helps start combos and f tilt is a solid poke tool.
Great video, I like the topic!
I feel like mii gunners up tilt is better, it's literally almost safe in most situations, very quick startup and animated, starts from the ground and cover basically everything directly in front and above him, very spamable, combos like fox up tilt for a little, but does take a while to kill.
Zelda's D-air is prettt underated, probably becuase it is on Zelda but its a pretty brutal tool. Its has low ending lag for how powerful the sweet spot is so she can use pretty far of stage and still recover, it can punish air dodges really hard, it has lots of potetial for kill combos on grounded oppents, even the sour spot has really High knockback growth so at higer percents you dont even try to get sweet spot and it can gimp recoveries at mid percentages too
Sonic’s spring is a wild tool that no one uses correctly
a tricky and amazing pit combo i love is down thow or down tilt, reverse dair, into bair. on stages with tight blastzones that can kill at 50 maybe earlier
also btw mockrock, for next time you conplain about pitboxes, i have a clip of Pits aerials looking like they should connect but not, up air, nair and fair, all in like 10 seconds on a town balloon. as soon as it happened i realised it felt right at home in one of your vids
I love how I was thinking ganon up-tilt and forgot that your intro starts with that
The Mii’s have some underrated moves. Mii swordfighter with his insane down-tilt and up-air (and better falcon kick down-b option).
Mii gunner with his neutral b grenade that is +20 on shield
Mii brawler with his insane up-tilt (and everything else that everyone body knows is insane, but up tilt is like smash 4 Mario up tilt)
Also I still think Zelda’s up-air is underrated for being the strongest raw up-air in the game, while also having a good disjointed hitbox and a little bit of combo potential at earlier percents.
A move I would like to mention that didn’t make it in is King K. Rool’s up air. Most people dismiss it because of the atrocious amount of endlag it has (which is fair, in fact it actually used to be even worse before they buffed it), but it’s SO much better than non-K. Rool players give it credit for.
It’s frame 7, which is exactly as fast as neutral air, he gets both head intangibility and belly armor while it’s active, and most notably, it boosts him in the air slightly (edit: provided you don’t mash it out of hitstun), effectively giving him a triple jump with a hitbox. It has many applications, including:
- Increasing K. Rool’s threat range in neutral
- Stalling offstage
- Calling out double jumps
- Repositioning/mixups in disadvantage
- Getting off ledge
- Can kill confirm off of crown and/or dair for some REALLY early kills if up smash won’t work
It’s not his BEST move by any means (nair, fair and his projectiles easily outclass it), but up air is CRAZY good and I’m sick of people pretending it’s not
Now I really need to use Mewtwo’s f-tilt more when I play him.
These videos can help a lot. Thanks!
Ahhhh, I’ve missed these, thank you mockrock, I think one pretty underrated move is dedede’s up tilt. I’m a dedede main and I often get a lot of use out of it cus it’s very quick, great kill power, pretty safe and decent hit box with some intangiblity. It’s kind of a worst snake up tilt in almost every way but it’s still a nasty move.
As a Mewtwo player, Side Tilt is not only insane but good against the standard stile of play in general and has good synergy with his kit.
So, this might be controversial (it sure is), but I'd say that for Mac it'd either be dash attack, up air, nair or neutral B.
For the dash attack, it's quick at frame 7, surprisingly safe since it crossups, setup for tech situations on plats (Mac can abuse the shit out of them), comboes into itself at low% and is a great confirm from dtilt that is more reliable than ftilt, it 2 frames and can kill at 160%-ish. This does everything and it's one of the greatest dash attack in the entire game.
For his aerials, they're not GREAT but they have a purpose, and that's something peoples seem to forget. Up Air is a decent combo starter (landing up air comboes into imagination it's kinda nut) and combo ender from up tilt (safer than up B). The hitbox is also surprisingly huge (it's a bit disjointed). Nothing ground breaking but it's not as bad as ppls take it for.
Nair is a bit trickier as it is a bad neutral air, but a good move. His saving grace is being a frame 2 move with low endlag. Mac player can basically get out of hitstun for free without risking anything. It also makes plat movement way easier and is just cheap af. You can also do stuff like Nair up B but they're niche and you'll not touch the right hitbox for it to work, buuuut Nair jab kinda works and does a decent amount of damage.
Finally, neutral B might be the least underrated from this list, but I think most player don't get how bullshit this move is in some MU. It denies multihits (Armor on hit at 9.6% starting frame 1 (yeah)), Palu can't juggle Mac for exemple. It's basically focus but the total opposite. Also we can cancel into shield (so spotdodge, Roll, up Smash, up B, jump Side B (frame 10)). The move in itself is also one of the greatest shieldbreak punish in the game on a character with an armored shieldbreaker in his toolkit lmao.
Ah and also it sometimes kills at 25 while being frame 9, having armor on frame 8 and going through shield whiiile covering plats and jump
This char is not Bottom 2 man
Lucas dtilt next? It guarantees into a grab at higher percents and is frame 3, unreactable. Drag down dtilt combos into a surprising amount of things and is pretty safe on shield as it pushes you away
mewtwo jab is a hilarious move, when you hit someone with it with your back to the ledge and they don't sdi, they take about 50-70. ive hit this in brackets multiple times and had to explain this after
Isabelle jab is actually quite possibly one of the best in the entire game, and receives little to no love, due to her being a VERY underplayed character
Meta Knight B-Air: Disjoint, frame 7, it last forever (21 frames), forces tech (which you know set the scenario for chases), the easiest stage-spike B-Air ever (just throw it randomly if the enemy is recovering low, you can use it to raw spike or fast fall to mess his timing), kinda strong, and you can fast fall to "spike" them, if you move away from your opponent while fast falling there is a chance the last hit misses and they get dragged down to blastzone (I have footage of it if).
Another neat thing about pirahna plant rapid jab is it last way longer at ledge. Like this is the case for most rapid jabs, but that's usually when the opponent is the one at the ledge. For pirahna plant, you can roll to ledge so you face towards the stage and the rapid jab will still hold opponents for much longer than normal
Two that immediately come to mind are Mii swordfighter's skyward slash dash (ssd) and power thrust. Not really worth talking about them though because a good amount of points made with meta knights move and falcon kick translate over to this.
Talking about a different move because of that, I'm going to talk about mii swordfighter forward tilt, back air, and down air.
Each of them have deceptively big hitboxes. Don't get me wrong, they aren't cloud D-air big, but they are bigger than the sword itself would suggest.
Forward tilt is the hardest to explain, but put simply, I have on occasion been able to out range some of clouds moves, and it does also seem to be decent enough at catching people when they dash back.
B-air is just dumb, the first goes a pretty far distance behind Mii, and the second one just covers their head entirely. In other words, it's first frame is narrower cloud back air, and the second is cloud back air on top of mii swordfighter.
As for down air, I lied, it's cloud D-air with it being a multi hit, 5 less active frames, and a landing hitbox.
I know that I'm making a lot of cloud comparisons, but it's the best frame of reference that I have since I've played against cloud a lot. Also I get to bring up that mii swordfighter and cloud have the exact same weight, and that they're the only two characters that share that exact weight.
From having messed around with cloud a decent amount as well, I can say that mii swordfighter is just a jankier cloud that has different tools to use.
I was actually surprised when I heard that people some people said Pits back air was a bad, like, what? I already knew it was a good kill move, so I knew it was good, but man, you sold me on a lot more of advantages it has that I wasn't even aware of, thank you! ^^
Dr. Mario's lingering neutral air goes well with his jab when someone shields the first one
As a K Rool Main, one of the most misrepresented, unappreciated, and neglected moves in his kit is his NAIR. If any other character in Smash had this move, it would boost them up a tier.
The move is safe on the shield, it lasts for about 30 frames, it kills, it has a very generous hitbox, it has a small disjoint, it combos into jab, crown, grab, up tilt, fair, and itself, and as if that wasn't all good enough, it has super armor. The armor is strong enough to eat one hit from Ganon's forward smash and beats out most recoveries in the game, making him the king of ledge traps and edge guarding.
It is insane. I have no idea why this move is not used more in elite smash, especially since it significantly softens the blow of what would be considered horrible match ups for him.
I'd like to shout out K Rools' up aerial where he just straight up headbutts from below? If an enemy is coming down it's really effective
Would love to see Greninja's Hydro Pump make it onto one of these lists! It's an EXTREMELY versatile move that does WAY more than allow Gren to recover. He can scoop jumping opponents with it in neutral and catch their landing, unstale his kill moves, ledge cancel to quickly get across the stage, push away items like PAC-MAN's Bell, catch the opponent's landing option, kill off the top blast zone, kill certain characters like GnW or Snake at 0 for using their Up B on stage, edge guard, frame trap with a ledge snap into Bair, use it as an escape tool in disadvantage (it's faster than Sonic's run), juke opponents out when landing by switching directions, switch between multiple angles to avoid edge guards, head bonk when recovering to avoid 2-frames, head bonk onto Kalos or Town's side platforms, extend his recovery by head bonking, push opponents away when being ledge trapped, or pump straight through their shield, locking them in place to get to center stage. These are just a few examples that come to mind :)
Drill rush and Samus up tilt getting the love they deserve.
This is definitely not at all an underrated move, but it does seem to be understandably overshadowed at times: Jigglypuff’s nair. It’s already pretty good, but I feel like people other than puff mains are likely to assume that it’s outclassed by fair and bair, but Jigglypuff’s nair rocks. Pretty fast, basically the same start up as fair and bair, great knockback at the sweetspot, and the sourspot has good combo potential, into fair/bair loops, decent range. What I *love* about this move, however, is how long it lasts. Fair and bair have one small issue, and it’s their short duration. Obviously can be mitigated with good timing and great frame data otherwise, but sometimes, the situation calls for being able to cover as much anount of time as possible, for delayed recoveries, and nair has that nailed. Hit the sweetspot on accident, the knockback is almost certainly going to kill offstage. Hit the sourspot, you’ll probably still have time for an extra fair or bair. And it’s so damn maneuverable, an airjump+nair is so amazing because there’s so much area that you can easily decide to cover, while being pretty damn safe. And dair is good too, but the angle it sends at is short and sometimes not always what you want, and also covers less on the sides. Fair and bair are amazing, but nair fills that special niche amazingly and complete’s Jigglypuff’s air game more than some people realize.
I think marth's f tilt goes under the radar. It's tipper is really easy to hit, especially against tall rectangular characters or characters pretty flat to the ground. It even hits from below platforms.
You know what I want to see?
A tier list for every move (similar to ESAM’s, but MockRock-ified)
11:32 I audibly laughed out loud when I saw that.
I've still absolutley gotta vouch for Donkey Kong's hand slap. Specifically the aerial version. This move comes out relatively quickly and does a great job of covering tech options and catching your opponent when grounded, but when airborne this move turns into an absolute must in DK's kit. The move comes out in 12 frames which makes it somewhat middle ranged as far as aerial options are concerned but it only gets better from there. It has 10 frames of landing lag making it's first hit a great combo tool when landing on opponents. This hit is also weight based meaning it connects even when opponents are at high percentages and with the considerable range that DK's arms always have it also almost always conects when mixing up timing for the second hit and manages to stay fairly safe on sheild if spaced properly. In addition to this, DK can use it to mix up where he's landing making one of the hardest things about playing DK (or any heavy for that matter), landing, just a little bit easier. It's also great at the ledge because it sticks down a little ways and two frames recoveries. And that's not even getting into the bulk of its actual combo routing. Up smash, up air, nair, big punch and last but certainly not least, forward tilt. Not only do these moves combo, but a handful of them kill making DK even scarier when he's landing on top of you. I know the move is fairly well known for its place in DK's kit, but I just think the aerial version goes overlooked. It combos, set's up kill confirms, two frames, mixes landing times and is a scary kill move all on its own when not above the ground. Just an all around great and somewhat underated move. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. 🐒
Good video but after watching this one, I wanted to rewatch the video on Mockrock but there isn't a direct link in the description which just seems odd.
Not too big of a deal, but if you did that, I'd expect some people to click on it
I actually just totally overlooked that, good call, I'll add it!
lucas is secretly busted sure people know about f tilt and up smash but lucas has some crazy tech my favorite being that pk freeze air stalls. in smash I play lucas often but since I can't draw circles I rarely use up b for recovery. prefering tether recovery or well spaced double jump into pk fire launch using pk freeze or pk magnet air stall as mix up.
Not just his kit, Lucas is a serious contender for slipperiest character in the game
@@DoritoTime yeah that's very true his movement is difficult to track his air mobility is higher than one would expect. esspecially with his double jump.
I see my character in a thumbnail, I click
oh yay, piranha plant jab! he's gonna talk about how the gentleman is basically safe on shield and you can hold opponents in shield right? oh. . . he underrated it :\
Glad to see the bird getting some love that isn’t just up tilt. Falco at least has the best nair in the game for his kit 😂
I swear there's been so much gaslighting or propaganda around Pit in Ultimate that made people collectively agree that they have bad aerial attacks, they look at a sourspot and immediately call the move weak despite having great range and combo potential, they see another move with short range but ignore the multihit property and combo starter, etc.
Would love to see a top 10 moves on bottom 10 character across all the smash games. And the opposite bottom 10 moves on top 10 characters
Oh yeah, someone did that for Sm4sh a while back.
I think Roy's up air is really underrated. On the reddit move tier list for up airs, it wasn't even in the top 25! Not only is the up air a great combo starter and extender, with it alone comboing to 40-50%, but its also a move with multiple kill confirms too! The two big kill confirms of up air is sour spot up air into sweet spot up air, which a sour spot SHOULDN'T have a kill confirm but it does, and reverse falling up air > down air at ledge, which can kill heavies or anyone with a bad recovery at 35%-ish, and kills at around 50% for anyone else.
I'd honestly really like to just see you make a video about pit and dark pit. Whether it's a more detailed look at the changes you'd want, or just 30 minutes of you talking about cool pit stuff. I think it'd be a good time.
Good video.
Glad to see Doc, M2 and Plant gets some love.
Gonna dump a ton of other moves:
-Pika D-Tilt: -4, has a 30% chance to trip, very spammable, leads to tech-chases or even locks. Really odd no one talks about this move.
-Luigi's Dash Attack: Frame 4, a great spot-dodge catcher to go with grab and it kills pretty well at the ledge. It does have some linking issues around, kind of a shame, but still pretty dang good.
-Ness and Belle's F-Tilts: Why are they so strong!?
-Ness's Bair: Again, why is it so strong!? It kills most character's at the ledge sub-100%, is only minus -4 on-shield, has a lingering sourspot that sets up for good combos and it's only frame 10 with an oddly large hitbox.
-Doc's Up-Smash: It's Mario's, but kills at 100% and has an extra active frame that hits in front.
-Doc's Super Sheet: Many have written it off as a flat downgrade cause it doesn't stall mid-air, but that just opens up for B-Reverse and Wavebouncing. Very handing movement mix-up, notably when getting juggled. Also can't forget about the Cape Pull tech on ledge which isn't super great, but is nice option to have and can cover you if they try throwing a project when coming back.
-Lucario's F-Tilt: More of his players are starting to abuse it more. But dang, that disjoint and 2-Frame ability with the solid kill power all for that low of lag. Not bad. Not bad at all.
-Tink's F-Tilt: Not a fancy move by any regards, but still don't get why it hits behind and 2-frames while being only -11 on-shield. Feels like it isn't spammed as much as it could be.
-Rosa's D-Smash: Shockingly quick with low endlag (41 FAF, faster then her other Smashes), hits ledge, covers both sides twice thanks to Luma and sends a nasty low angle.
-K. Rool's Fair: Good for many of the same reasons as the Pit's Bair. Fairly quick, one of his best anti-airs thanks to the upper disjoint. Can start some beefy combos at low-percents with solid kill power and is only -5 at the sweetspot which is very easy to land. One of the Kroc's few spammable attacks... onstage anyway. If only it didn't have all the endlag...
-Hero's Up-Tilt: Massive coverage with solid kill power, even without buffs.
-Hero's Nair: Kind of a different take on Ike's. For a character with sluggish normals, it's one of the few safe ones that also starts decent damage. Again, without buffs.
I loved your video!
I thought you would talk about my main, Inkling, and her insane neutral b. Let me explain:
- Insane neutral tool
- Cancel many moves or approaches thanks to the wind box at the gun (stops Falcon Down b for example)
- stops objects such as every pac man tools expects key, Diddy banana, ROB Gyro and all! (Not turnips though
- cancel some recoveries and is painful for Ness and Lucas when they have to up B, very good against tether recos
- locks on shield for all the duration, you can mixup the timing when you want to stop to punish the shield (even though any spammed oos move can be done, you can still bait it and react)
- is very annoying for the opponent and apply ink, which helps you deal more damage
- and about ink, a single tip of the neutral B will reset the ink timer so, insane
I love my character and this move is BROOOOOKEN!! Please consider it 🙏🏻
"What if you made Sheik Needles into a machine gun? Or Falco Lasers into a machine gun? Or Samus Charge Shot into..."
-Alpharad.
@@toastytoad8154 It creates the best move in the game
Lucas Uair is goated for combo extensions into pk thunder multi hit loops. You can nab a 0-78% off of landing uair and kill people who don't air dodge
Sheik up tilt is really underrated as well, It's crazy as an anti-air. Her hurtbox shifts so much that her entire upper half is essentially missing during the startup, and the hitbox is so big that she beats out Link Nair at some spacings (it trades if he's directly above you, but it beats out approaching or OoS nairs.).
It's also her longest ranged and safest tilt on shield.