Is Jesus A Rebel Out Of Time? Lena Einhorn
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- Опубликовано: 13 дек 2016
- 11th Story interview with Lena Einhorn, author of "A Shift in Time: How the Historical Documents Reveal the Surprising Truth about Jesus." Did the writers of the Gospels purposely move the timeline of Jesus's ministry to an earlier date to avoid the association of a jewish rebel, violent Messiahs and the Jewish Roman War? Lena Einhorn reveals the astonishing parallels between the writings of the 1st century historian Flavius Josephus and the characters of the Gospel narrative. Book available at www.amazon.com/Shift-Time-His...
Skype interview and film editing by 11th Story
Intro song "Knowledge" by Lora Nigro
Musical composition "No Regrets" by Rob McWilliam 
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Thank you very much for this live footage. I find Ms Einhorns arguments cogent, referring here to 'The Jesus Mystery'. It is a pity the recording plays back so poorly.
I agree with your conclusions. I studied this "Egyptian" character some decades ago. After he escaped and his men were killed or captured I bet rumors spread that he had died, then he visited some of his followers providing the kernel of actual truth behind the "resurrection" vowing to gather reinforcements he left only to die before fulfilling his promise, thus creating the notion that developed into the eventual "return of Christ" with his saints. The Biblical story of him turning over the tables of the money changes in the temple is like the Disney movie about Anastasia, the truth being far more horrible. That raid on the temple was an armed conflict, a raid, that was bloody violent and culminated on the Mount of Olives with the defeat of the rag tag rebel forces that followed the Egyptian. This would make a great novel and movie.
Your right, it would make a good film! I think Lena presents a possible reason for the gospel's time line shift. It seems the Egyptian, along with Theudus, were both mimicking the OT leader, Joshua (Jesus) or at least that's Josephus's interpretative narrative. It's not a stretch to believe that the OT Joshua (Jesus) would have been an inspiration to the 1st century rebellion. After all, they were ridding the enemy from the land of promise.
Do the gospels present "rebel" leaders in a positive light? Is the Egyptian the only rebel that's shadowed in the book? In my discussions with Dr. Price regarding Lena's theory; he believes that if a historical character was at its base, she is correct. However, Dr. Price points out to the myriad of rebel narratives contained throughout the gospel.
The war between the Romans and Jews was a holocaust, brutal, very long and would have to be considered a strong undercurrent to the gospel narrative. More of this in an upcoming video.
11thstory The best thing for early Jewish Christians was how Christianity resolved the existential nightmare of the destruction of the Temple in 70ce. Which seems to be about the time of the earliest Gospels writings, Acts which places Paul after the execution of Jesus are confusingly from before the destruction of the Temple or Paul would have had something to say about what the destruction meant while he describes in great detail why Jesus is the perfect sacrifice in Hebrews but makes no reference to the destruction of the temple. The gospels that predict the destruction of the Temple are ALL written after 70ce unless the predictions were added later as we’ve seen in many other examples.
Good points. Most scholars believe the gospels were written after the event of the destruction, but there was Jesus Ben Ananias warning doom to Jerusalem during the festivals in the 60's ce. and seemed to be notable figure according to the historian Josephus. Josephus counts him as one of the major prophetic signs of the destruction.
The Jewish sect of the Essenes did not sacrifice in the temple for many years prior to the destruction, but were brutally suppressed by the Romans for keeping the Sabbath and sticking to their diet restrictions. Paul was critical of those imposing Jewish practices that prevented the Gentiles from joining. If Roman suppression, which was widespread, prevented certain Jewish rituals or practices, it would be easy to see the rise of a Gentile faction called Christianity.
11thstory I like the comparisons to the Roswell event. Several coincidences and conditions had to align for the Jewish sect to start and then for it to become socially contagious in non Jewish cultures. When I was a Christian someone completely unaware of Christianity asked me to explain it. After telling them about blood sacrifice and how it was necessary to sacrifice until Jesus became the perfect sacrifice for all time she looked at me a bit distressed and said, “that’s sick!” Suddenly I realized how right she was.
Brilliant work.
I wouldn't cast off the work of someone who isn't established yet. Dr. Carrier was also (at one time) someone who was less well known, and now, his views are growing in reputation.
The birth issue coinciding with the birth of the rebellion , along with barrabasd, is directly related to the 2 witnesses of revelation.
Great work, although I doubt this will be received by the New Testament Scholarship academic community any better that they received the archaeological evidence for tha *actual* historical Jesus.
PfctvsPontivsPilatvs what is this actual archeological evidence?
With all due respect, it would be better if your background/credentials were discussed first.. it's hard to tell who's giving reliable info on the net.. but I appreciate your work. Only a few people dig deeper to know our real history. 👍
This is an incredible take on the Jesus Story. I sure thought that (maybe) some Jews were angry that their Leaders kept getting them into trouble with Rome and got two or three HUNDRED THOUSAND killed in the 50's, 60's, and 70's. So, maybe, they crafted the Jesus Story from a new wing of the Jews who decided they didn't want to keep fighting wars with Rome and with everyone else. So, the Jesus model became a pacifist religion. Then, they could harmously co-exist with everyone else.
The historian Josephus within his 2,624 word commentary about the philosophy of the large Jewish Essenic sect: "...he will ever show fidelity to all men, and especially to those in authority, because no one obtains the government without God's assistance" You think they would have approved of violence? Never mentioned in the Gospels?
@Daniel Eyre Most scholars consider the passage mentioned of Jesus by Josephus to be seriously flawed and some believe it's a complete interpolation (forged). I would only add the sect that Josephus considered to be highly spiritual, prophetic, marveled by the population, ministers of peace, did not make Temple sacrifices and highly persecuted by the Romans are the Essenes, not Christians. The Essenes would have predated a Christian sect by hundreds of years.
rationalwiki.org/wiki/Josephus
It also seems that 1st century Messiahs, mentioned by Lena, were copying the biblical war-like Joshua (Jesus). Hence the same named gospel character is now presented as a minister of peace.
@Daniel Eyre Rational Wiki is a summary, not scholarship as one needs to read foot notes. Carrier isn't mentioning something that was an original idea of his. www.earlychristianwritings.com/testimonium.html
@Daniel Eyre Of course it was a common name, that i am not arguing. I would only argue that the writer(s) of the Gospel were highly skilled and payed attention to the details. The rebellion against Rome started with Judas the Galilean, quite a bit earlier than the writings of the Pauline epistles. Paul would have been writing during the rise of more rebels as mentioned by Lena. No one is trying to damage Christianity, as I believe there is good reason for its origins (see the Essenes) based on not just one individual. I have personally interviewed and have read Bart Ehrman, who disagrees with Robert Price, and have read numerous books on Christian origins...Mack, Crossan etc. and had a very good personal relationship with a Jesus Seminar scholar on the Greek language.
He took 17 talents from the temple and gave them to the emperor.
Josephus was Paul/Saul and Joseph of Aramathea - All the same guy.
old news , where have you been? sorry to be so frank
Is anyone aware of what Richard Carrier thinks about this theory?
www.richardcarrier.info/archives/11048
Thanks.
I trust Carrier's judgment on this because I doubt anyone in this field of study knows more than him.
Daniel Eyre do read any of he's book?
Daniel Eyre Wrong i have, that is why I ask you. Typically haters of Richard talk a lot shit about him but haven’t read any of he’s books soo if you wanna critique the work of someone please read the entire book and check the references always...
Daniel Eyre 1. Read the whole book.
2. In his blog he talks about how people are taking the Bayesian theory wrong I recommend to check that out.
3. Richard Carrier is “poor” writer, well that’s your opinion man, That’s some argument some does when they haven’t read anything of the author. You cannot based your conclusion on some part of the book... you need to read all the book the get one reasonable conclusion.
Jesus is Nerones mirrorred 32 years (the lifetime of both) back in time, what makes Jesus be 'born' at 6 AD. That is the timeshift; a case of backdating. 32 years is roughly a generation, thus his uncles become his brothers or nephews. mary's niece actually is her own mother. Should be common knowledge. The problem is the NT covers it up using nicknames (often many nicknames for one person) or a single character is splitted in multiple ones.
One example were she is wrestling with; all Simons, all Judasses and all Annasses are the single same man.
5:17 this was a baffling production decision
8:56 as well. Extremely disruptive, especially in comparison to the poor audio quality of the rest of the video. Getting used to it again after these interjections is very jarring.
11:48 - and another one. This video really could have done without these.
18:33 I mean, why? I actually thought it was an editing mistake at first, but you've done it four times now. Very distracting.
Sorry about that. We couldn't get the technology set up for the remote speakers. We would rather interview in house...ala our Carrier videos.
@@11thstoryI will check those out. Your channel seems to have a lot of interesting stuff.
Read online Flavius Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, Book 20.8.6:
www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0146%3Abook%3D20%3Awhiston%20chapter%3D8%3Awhiston%20section%3D6
Thank you for that reference. Its seems the Egyptian was attempting an OT Joshua (Jesus) move by calling for the walls to come tumbling down. "But the Egyptian himself escaped out of the fight." We asked Lena if she thought there was a connection to the young man fleeing away naked (not caught) and the Egyptian.
Mark 14:51-52 - I have no idea. I am quite ignorant on many of these matters.
I have two thoughts on this matter.
1. If the so called experts had found evidence that there was a historical Jesus would it really change anything? If proven to be real persons that don’t believe in him still would not. If found to be false people will still believe.
2. History being what it is, couldn’t the powers that existed over any century before now have scrubbed Jesus from history trying to keep Christianity from spreading.
Thank you for your comment. In my opinion, Rome assimilated and then co opted the narrative/movement by declaring that the emperor/pope to be in direct line of succession to the authority of Jesus (The Son of God). Many figures in the ancient world used the phrase "Son of God" to justify their political authority.
I'm amazed this hasn't got more views in 4 years. Of course the video is crap, but what she's saying is dynamite.
I can accept that whoever the biblical jesus was - the Egyptian - an elephant in the room is that if the main drama of his life was in the 40's and 50's, when was he born? In the 20's ??? Any clues? If the biblical jesus was born between 10 BCE and 10 CE, he could have been possibly upto 60 when he died. Interesting.
The Egyptian is a shadowy figure we and don't know his age. He escapes Roman persecution as he gathered a force by Mount of Olives and is never heard of again.
The historian Josephus states, "He said further, that he would show them from hence how, at his command, the walls of Jerusalem would fall down; and he promised them that he would procure them an entrance into the city through those walls, when they were fallen down."
The Egyptian is mimicking the OT narrative of Joshua (Jesus) bringing down the walls of Jericho and then defeating them. The Egyptian was also a self professed "miracle worker."
The birth narratives of the gospel Jesus coincide directly the beginning of the war started by Judas of Galilee. The beginning of Jesus's ministry starts the next rebellion period after a quiet time.
lucifer is a rebel.
Interestingly enough, Judas the Galilean, the first to rebel against Rome around the time of the Jesus's birth narrative was blamed by the historian Josephus for starting the war with the Romans.