there is a phase in the demi fiend fight in Digital Devil Saga where you want to be inflicted with sleep otherwise you'll get oneshot. So yeah, this is highly reminiscent of that demi fight
Yeah Digital Devil Saga, Hitoshura(the special Boss) is the main character of SMT Nocturne. He comes with 2 demons, and you cant kill them, because he would use Gaia Rage and wipe everything. You cant neither drain nor null anything(except critical) because he would use Gaia Rage. Even if you do the strategy well, he would use at some point Gaia Rage just because. I do not recommend that fight, its preferable to play a Souls game, without equipment, without using items, while being blindfolded and playing with guitar hero pad using only one hand
Yeah, the exact formula is this: √(skill power * (strength + magic) * (level + 20) / endurance) * 0.7√10 * level mod * weakness/resistance mod * other modifiers
it took me 8 hours..on hard no way im doing it on max difficulty Aigis had divine pillar and 869 hp and still took 500-300 damage from the cruel attack while resistant-also spammed debilitate Metis 800 buffed the damage and randomly used charged attacks yukari 470 probably died the most near the end i managed to not have her die more then twice atleast from memeory anyway junpei:771 the crit lord that saved the fight with his defense buff that allowed me to survive the waves of megadolaon and crits but i did have fun strategizing wich persona to use when and what attack
. . . At 32k health, he has more HP than the tankiest boss in DDS1 (That isn't Demifiend). So yeah, Joker has the makings of an absolute pain to fight back against. Not to mention the amount of gimmicks he comes with.
Episode Aigis was meant to give players a bigger challenge and this battle is basically meant to be dark souls level difficult and OH BOY they succeeded
Dark souls is not as hard as this boss. Dark souls simply requires pattern recognition. This requires counterintuitive precog planning around the fact that the game wants you to do the opposite of what you have been doing for the entire game
@@grantgarbourIt was a pretty bad example. Alot of people know souls games aren't meant for difficulty and more of at your own pace type of difficulty since you decide how difficult it's by what level and equipment you use.
I remember that one of the biggest complaints i heard about P5 and P5R were how absurdly easy the games were even on the highest difficulty. I see things still havent changed.
Joker has the Will of Rebelliom by his side which is why canonically he is this difficult because he has the will to keep fighting till the end. Like if he fought Justine and Caroline the legit wardens of the Velvet Room and still survived, well that Rebellion of his is Strong AF!
One thing you could have done to sped up the loss was to cast (or use an item) Tetrakarn or Makarakarn... as having either physical or magic reflect instantly breaks the rules and Joker (or any super boss pretty much) goes straight to their almighty/piercing skills like Demi Fiend with Gaea Rage in SMTV+Vengeance or Joker with Sinful Shell here.
Congrats! Technically you can't Charge/Concentrate, but because Joker's first turn comes before yours in Heartless, it's basically a non-issue to do so your first turn. Mitsuru also comes through for the optimized 4-Turn strat and in a really weird way, one of her ideal moves is a blocked Marin Karin. (yes.) Also I'm never listening to Take Over voluntarily every again after this.
It could be worse. I was right in armageddon range and just had to build up theurgy and my friend was watching my screen share told me that if I messed it up I would have to watch the talk tuah podcast. Apparently when he is supposed to use a break skill if you null that element he’ll skip the break skill and just use the elemental attack then sinful shell. The worst podcast I ever listened to.
I feel like this is just another example of how broken Joker is, which makes this what I'd call "lore-accurate Joker", if you will. While from a gameplay standpoint I definitely understand that it's atrocious, but this makes me want to see a version of Narukami from 4 and Makoto from 3 that's just like this to see what kind of strategies they'd use. Just as interesting, though, would be an animated short or something like that where Makoto or Narukami face off in that state along with Joker in this state, I think
If we consider this joker to be the closest to canon, joker probably focuses on inflicting ailments and capitalizing on it and down shot. P5 put a lot of emphasis on technical damage and ailments, so it makes sense that you aren’t allowed to null ailments. Down shot is just a little personal flair. The rest of his arsenal and rules aren’t unique to him as a super boss, Elizabeth had a lot of rule overlap. In terms of what Makoto and Narukami have that’s unique to them that could be used as a super boss against joker, I feel like Makoto’s physical moves should be really strong, considering that his is the only game with three types of physical damage. I could see him having a high crit rate for no reason, reflecting how easy it is to make a persona that can crit super often. I would prevent him from having resistances/null/drain since there seems to be fewer of those skills in P3R, and I would also make him null to psy or nuke since those don’t exist in his game. As for Yu, def Yoshitsune
This fight looks like a modernized version of Elizabeth's fight in P3, where the difficulty lies on the restrictions and the insane punish they can deliver when you don't abide by them or get unlucky. P3 Makoto could be structured like a timed puzzle and would probably have a timer before using Armageddon to end the encounter (or punish for breaking a hidden rule), give him multiple endures when he would be killed and make him a lot more aggressive on low health, make active use of other fusion skills like Infinity on his double turns (which would be bs but dayum, accounting he can dual summon persona he is just that insane). Make him a lot more focused on elemental/magic to complete the trifecta (P3p is MAG, P4p is STR, P5p is AGI) P4 Yu would probably be a physical machine, Hassou Tobi as a constant insane damage pressure tool, massive Health pool, deadly physical attacks in general. Make his hidden rules about not being able to protect yourself as much from his hits. Health wise: P4 >>> P5 > P3 Damage wise: P3 >>> P4 > P5 P3 should feel like trying to overcome an insurmountable wall, P4 should feel like fighting a Hero while being the monday villain.
There's a lot of micro/macro optimizations you can make to make the fight easier and as short as 4 turns in heartless (tho I recommend 5 turns for more consistency) but this is pretty much what a normal clear looks like, the theory of atlus not playtesting this fight in heartless stays strong 🔥
@@ConCadd they've literally acknowledged solo battles with the new voice lines in EP:Aigis, and it's not unthinkable that players would try to approach the Joker fight similarly. i think it's a reasonable expectation.
Lots of things to say: 1. The amount of time I’ve laughed watching this made me my day 😂 2. Where did you get those costumes? Because I haven’t seen them in the game when in was playing 3. Thanks for showing the entire fight, but I think I’ll probably sit this one out so that I can stay sane
I really hate Atlus superboss design because like 80% of the time it's just "Do everything within these super specific rules or die", not to mention them basically being complete RNG-fests. Honestly the only Megaten game to have consistently good superbosses is SMT IV Apocalypse. Which is nice because it has a shit ton of them lol.
had a run just like your winning one. pretty early in my attempts actually, i think sub-20. it was the exact same. used armageddon and nuked that mascarade ahh teenager. after fighting elizabeth i learned to fight with a calculator next to me. i did the calculations and my total was 31,990 damage dealt. the phantom thief survived with 10 hp. after the sinful shell connected i went outside and touched grass. couldn't bring myself to fight after that. later on i fought this man for like nearly 2 more hours and i FINALLY got the kill with armageddon. from merciless lizzy to heartless joker bro i was ELATED. thats my story. W video by the way without you i would never have known how to defeat joker.thx.
Demi fiend still the hardest in SMT history (Digital Devil saga ver) Smt V people have found ways too cheese him in 2 turns or just one. Fighting him normally thought ughhhhh is a long battle too long But I think the hardest SMT battle without any cheese of all time is The new secret boss in SMT V Vengeance route, yes is more difficult than demi fiend and you can recruit demi fiend. Joker does looks harder but Persona super bosses has those stupid restriction or secret rule that will just Kill you and there is no way to know...grandt Smt also does that but I don't think to the same extend. Could have bee much much worse if Demi Fiend showed up instead of Joker also the real Joker isn't even this strong.
Why I dont like Persona boss fights? If I need to follow a guide to beat a superboss and had to follow an exact step by step method and some invisible rules, I am sorry that boss is shit.
The real joker is even stronger, the cognitions of the protagonists aren’t as strong as they are. Plus joker doesn’t even have his strongest persona’s in episode aigis.
lmao As someone who's beaten every notorious Megaten superboss (except Heartless Joker so far) no this is not accurate at all. Gonna be a long response. When talking about what's the hardest MegaTen boss, generally the community has a toss up between DDS1 Demi Fiend or DDS2 Satan (some people even include Raidou 1 Beelzebub on NG+, but I don't because I personally don't count NG+ difficulties), but the boss that I spent by far the most time on was DDS2 Satan. The prep time required for the grinding is insane (you're looking at 30-40+ hours just grinding in the last dungeon), and on top of that, you need to grind for rare drops from certain enemies to even unlock the fight (the rare drops unlock additional optional bosses which you must defeat before taking on Satan). Once the actual fight begins, it's complete and utter RNG hell. There's no Red Star cheese strat equivalent for DDS2 Satan, you need accurate math to keep track of his HP to prep for the often lethal phase transitions because there's no visible health bar, one of your party members MUST be gimped as a human at all times to fish for Hama blocks (because of Satan's unholy SIX press turns), you can't resist his bullshit because he negates all resistances at the start, he can Mamudoon your run at _any_ point, he can dogpile any party member at any point with nukes, and he has a nasty enrage condition where he wipes you every 4th turn if you aren't +3/-3 on buffs and he _loves_ to use Dekaja/Dekunda at inopportune times. This fight took me fuckin 8 hours to take down. DDS1 Demi Fiend took me 3 and a half, and Vengeance's superbosses took me less than an hour each. SMT V's Satan pales in comparison to DDS2 Satan because the former has no enrage conditions and the restrictions are extremely lenient. I downed him in less than 5 tries. Masakado was way more difficult if I'm being honest because you need to build around his fight specifically.
I’m currently working towards beating this fight on heartless, I mostly just need to grind more and then it will be only a matter of time because doing this fight without armor of light and shoes of eminence (with enduring soul) is basically impossible (assuming you have base stats)
@@helpihavebats6392 How else are they supposed to make it hard? A test of skills is nearly impossible in a numbers game with RNG, without implementing stuff from other genres.
28:00 “Overall I don’t know if I’d say I had fun or not cause honestly the RNG was just absolutely ridiculous, but hey, it was nice to have an actual tough fight come out of Persona, so we take those.” I am happy it was that hard so idk who you’re referring to. Getting mad at hard things and failure is a normal human reaction, hence the rage compilation where I say things that are hyperbolic
@@totalwarANGEL Are the rules stated in game, or do you have to search it for yourself? Cause... Pretend the internet goes down. You can't just look it up. These rules sound ridiculous to just figure out yourself.
@@UltraKardas They REALLY assumed it wouldn't be possible to bruteforce and that you'd have to collaborate with other players to figure it out, like a puzzle. That's how we solved Elizabeth back in the day, and nowadays she's considered easy because her rules are so simple.
So this boss is basically the Persona version of the Demifiend super boss from SMT V/ V Vengeance, and the Demifiend fight from the first Digital Devil Saga.
Finally, a modern Persona game paying homage to the Old Ways, putting a little of the old SMT back into persona. Feels like the fight designers took some pages out of a FFXIV raid boss with all the conditionals and time limit, were the other superbosses ever so picky? (I know they almost all crack down on nulls, but buff/debuff checks seems new to me.)
@@YandereGogeta ngl you’re video seems more like a cautionary tale than a guide to the fight lmao. Makes merciless priestess without media look like tutorial to the battle menu.
@@Astral76Priestess without Media is genuinely not that bad. Jack Frost and Tarunda really guts her damage and her secret Weakness (extra dmg but no bonus turn) to Fire means Mc and Junpei can take her HP down pretty quickly. At worst you bring a couple aoe Hp items.
@@helpihavebats6392 yeah true but you don’t know that the first time unless you grind yukari so it sets a high expectation for the games difficulty just for the emperor and empress fight to follow a pattern of affinities.
1. Heartless Joker is truly merciless 2. Joker’s rules are more cracked then any of the velvet siblings holy hell 3. Ey I see that just a phase mod nice one brother 4. I’m not even sure this is possible on heartless for me anyway
I thought I was in the clear with my powerful persona build, then I saw the Ren boss and was fangirling, but then after getting mopped on my 5th turn. I accepted that he was here to penetrate any mortal that dare face him, and I have been scared to interact with him since 😭.
The reason blaze of life does more is because theurgies COMBINE both attacking stats when calcing damage Effectively (at 99 each) almost 200 stat points for one skill
My friend that lives in japan (the real Shine Megami veteran) didn't have any problem with this fight on Heartless Mode. But he played Shin Megami Tensei games since 90's, so it's not a surprise that he didn't have any problem boss.
The rage levels were getting to SLH's matador runs lmao. But good job on beating him, he's harsh. And at least the strategy to beat him isnt as asinine as it is for Demi Fiend in DDS1.
My lineup was: 1. Aigis (Default: Orpheos Telos w/max En and Mg stats w/ Morning Star and Almighty Amp + Boost) 2. Yukari for healing (Only purpose + items) 3. Metis for Phys output DPS and Maturanda for Attack buff 4. Koromaru for Delibitate (Only purpose + items) And I made sure everyone was holding onto their max and best items/armor. This helps survives the ailments turns, rounds and everything else (Except for Down Shot + Cruel Attack). Have an endure or switch to a Persona with Enduring Soul. Then I’d spam the heck out of Fuuka Theurgy for Concentrate buffs and Heat Riser buffs. Lastly, DPS Morning Star like hell and Metis high Phys attacks. Wait till about turn 12 and save all party Theurgies and once he’s about 15,000+ damage, I spammed all Thuergies with buffed party, debuffed Joker, and fully concentrated + charged party. Done. Joker was finished. (FYI - this took me over 17 times before I got the secret sauce to success for me)
joker is by far my favourite protag in the series and has the most personality, so personally i like to think he is the strongest, mainly because of the costumes basically grants any persona user in 5 super strength and acrobatic abilities, without the suit he is equal to the other protagonists
I'm all for difficult bosses, but having hidden rules that instantly cause the battle to end with Sinful Shell if you don't follow them is just a stupid way to add difficulty. If they don't want ailment moves to work on Joker, have him immediately react with Maruki's detox. If they don't want you to apply too many debuffs, have Futaba counter debuff moves by casting heat riser. If a player has to look up a guide to even understand why they lost, the boss is badly designed.
I beat heartless Joker, here are some things I used to help make it less painful: FORTUNE TAROT CARDS: Please for the love of GOD, grind up like 15+ fortune tarot, it makes tanking jokers attacked feasible Magic ability rapier: There’s a weapon for Mitsuru that gives her magic ability, pair that with the ice amp accessory and her damage gets a lot better Incense cards: Use as many str and mag boosting incense on your teammates, it’ll massively boost theurgy damage as it scales with BOTH Str and Mag Finally, Use a damn calculator when fighting Joker. It helps tremendously to avoid doing too much damage to get the full heal in phase two AND Let’s you know when to pop Armageddon to finish the fight Good luck to those still fighting him! It’s an RNG fest, but a winnable one.
Atlus really went: "so y'all are breaking the game? We don't approve of that." And put an an SMT special boss in persona.
What smt demon?
More like: "Since y'all keep breaking our games, we'll make a boss that breaks your spirits.
@@Arcananine77 nah, more like "Since y'all keep breaking our games, we'll make a boss that steals your hearts (in a bad way)"
there is a phase in the demi fiend fight in Digital Devil Saga where you want to be inflicted with sleep otherwise you'll get oneshot. So yeah, this is highly reminiscent of that demi fight
Yeah Digital Devil Saga, Hitoshura(the special Boss) is the main character of SMT Nocturne.
He comes with 2 demons, and you cant kill them, because he would use Gaia Rage and wipe everything. You cant neither drain nor null anything(except critical) because he would use Gaia Rage.
Even if you do the strategy well, he would use at some point Gaia Rage just because.
I do not recommend that fight, its preferable to play a Souls game, without equipment, without using items, while being blindfolded and playing with guitar hero pad using only one hand
"Joker probably showed up because someone wanted to fight a tougher opponent"
Wow they really broke the 4th wall there huh
"Hey, it's me, Joker!"
Masked Boy Did Justice For Sees Boy and Investigation Team Boy
Wonder If the protag of the eventual Persona 6 is gonna face the 3 of them all as one Ultra Boss!
If that actually happens im gonna commit a crime i could not handle that@JoaoVictor-rg5ix
P6 mc about to have the time of his life.
@@muazhaque2594you mean with defeating all 3 MCs
Finally… lore accurate joker
hhahha True
Persona 5 fans : "Omg, Persona 5 is soo easy, this game is a joke"
Atlus : *nods very menacingly*
It just shows *why* p5 was easy. Joker is a menace.
@@TheXanondorf I mean..... both figuratively and literally. Dude's got the Japanese FBI as an opp.
I mean in fairness, the first playthrough on p5 - hard, kamoshidas castle is a nightmare. Yeah royal was a joke tho.
@@McTrollensteinlore accurate phantom thieves
Nocturne's Matador is harder than anything in P5.
Ah yes, PURPOSEFULLY be inflicted with ailments to avoid a wipe.
*DDS Demi-Fiend in the distance:*
they finally got a real super boss, their own demi fiend
Spoiler alert: Joker's weakness is nuke and psi.
Damn
He's getting whipped by Makoto AND Haru?
💀
If you dont know what Personanese of Nuke is, its Frei 😭
@@ItzyurFashionistaLenniyPERSONANESE 😂😂😂
This reminds me of the demi-fiend fight in dds and the only reason why you could beat the fight was because gun and earth didn't exist in his game lol
Yeah Theurgy do scale off of MAG and STR instead of just one. Thats why they’re so powerful.
Yeah, the exact formula is this:
√(skill power * (strength + magic) * (level + 20) / endurance) * 0.7√10 * level mod * weakness/resistance mod * other modifiers
Can anyone explain why Junpei's hack and blast is way more powerful than the other one with this in mind?
@@danm8004 because it can crit and Junpei's personality gives him crit rate and damage buff
@@AdacherTheCabbageEater that makes sense.
Bro spun the block after their leader died and got the cheating kid on the playground rule set
Everyone’s a gangster till joker heat rises
Then concentrates
Demi-Fiend: Look at what he needs to mimic a fraction of my power.
Demi-fiend was just built different
@@punchgamer7979 Lore accurate Demi-fiend is scary
No I'm not doing this fight I value my life and if I play this fight I might end it 😭
I ended up modding everyone's hp to max so I could survive his stupid ass crits, I hate joker for life now
Me too.
it took me 8 hours..on hard no way im doing it on max difficulty
Aigis had divine pillar and 869 hp and still took 500-300 damage from the cruel attack while resistant-also spammed debilitate
Metis 800 buffed the damage and randomly used charged attacks
yukari 470 probably died the most near the end i managed to not have her die more then twice atleast from memeory anyway
junpei:771 the crit lord that saved the fight with his defense buff that allowed me to survive the waves of megadolaon and crits
but i did have fun strategizing wich persona to use when and what attack
. . . At 32k health, he has more HP than the tankiest boss in DDS1 (That isn't Demifiend). So yeah, Joker has the makings of an absolute pain to fight back against. Not to mention the amount of gimmicks he comes with.
Kohyru resists everything for most of the fight. He has effectively more than that
Episode Aigis was meant to give players a bigger challenge and this battle is basically meant to be dark souls level difficult
and OH BOY they succeeded
Dark souls is not as hard as this boss. Dark souls simply requires pattern recognition. This requires counterintuitive precog planning around the fact that the game wants you to do the opposite of what you have been doing for the entire game
@@grantgarbour It was just an example
@@grantgarbourIt was a pretty bad example. Alot of people know souls games aren't meant for difficulty and more of at your own pace type of difficulty since you decide how difficult it's by what level and equipment you use.
It got that old Final Fantasy secret boss difficulty (that may be pushing it, some of those were hella bs)
@@grantgarbour still alot of bosses in dark souls took me 6+ hours to beat
I remember that one of the biggest complaints i heard about P5 and P5R were how absurdly easy the games were even on the highest difficulty.
I see things still havent changed.
So you beat this version of Joker easily on this hardest of difficulty?
@@grumpysheep3710I think this is suppose to be in the perspective of joker. Him fighting player is easy
@Benny-Arts ah ok, that makes sense if that's the case
Joker has the Will of Rebelliom by his side which is why canonically he is this difficult because he has the will to keep fighting till the end. Like if he fought Justine and Caroline the legit wardens of the Velvet Room and still survived, well that Rebellion of his is Strong AF!
One thing you could have done to sped up the loss was to cast (or use an item) Tetrakarn or Makarakarn... as having either physical or magic reflect instantly breaks the rules and Joker (or any super boss pretty much) goes straight to their almighty/piercing skills like Demi Fiend with Gaea Rage in SMTV+Vengeance or Joker with Sinful Shell here.
"Makoto's not here? That's unfortunate... FOR YOU" - Joker probably
Congrats! Technically you can't Charge/Concentrate, but because Joker's first turn comes before yours in Heartless, it's basically a non-issue to do so your first turn.
Mitsuru also comes through for the optimized 4-Turn strat and in a really weird way, one of her ideal moves is a blocked Marin Karin. (yes.)
Also I'm never listening to Take Over voluntarily every again after this.
It's still a banger
It could be worse. I was right in armageddon range and just had to build up theurgy and my friend was watching my screen share told me that if I messed it up I would have to watch the talk tuah podcast. Apparently when he is supposed to use a break skill if you null that element he’ll skip the break skill and just use the elemental attack then sinful shell. The worst podcast I ever listened to.
Oh my god bro I am so sorry you had to listen to that.
Coming into this fight blind…..YOU’LL NEVER SEE IT COMIN 😂🎉
F* you, I am laughing so hard it hurts
Heartless as in he's going to steal your heart
So I just found out that apparently the rules differ on hard than heartless…. I have decided just to stick with hard
Ah finally. Biblically accurate Joker.
Ngl this video was funny af, kudos for losing your mind for the content via sinful shell
“Fuuka’s build so she won’t kill me this time.” LOL 😂
Mitsuru: " You couldn't deal with your own failure so where did that bring you? Back to me!" Poetic af lmao!
He wants to be new game + accurate so bad😭
Meanwhile demifiend in in digital devil saga 1 we like you blinked dead
I feel like this is just another example of how broken Joker is, which makes this what I'd call "lore-accurate Joker", if you will. While from a gameplay standpoint I definitely understand that it's atrocious, but this makes me want to see a version of Narukami from 4 and Makoto from 3 that's just like this to see what kind of strategies they'd use. Just as interesting, though, would be an animated short or something like that where Makoto or Narukami face off in that state along with Joker in this state, I think
If we consider this joker to be the closest to canon, joker probably focuses on inflicting ailments and capitalizing on it and down shot. P5 put a lot of emphasis on technical damage and ailments, so it makes sense that you aren’t allowed to null ailments. Down shot is just a little personal flair. The rest of his arsenal and rules aren’t unique to him as a super boss, Elizabeth had a lot of rule overlap.
In terms of what Makoto and Narukami have that’s unique to them that could be used as a super boss against joker, I feel like Makoto’s physical moves should be really strong, considering that his is the only game with three types of physical damage. I could see him having a high crit rate for no reason, reflecting how easy it is to make a persona that can crit super often. I would prevent him from having resistances/null/drain since there seems to be fewer of those skills in P3R, and I would also make him null to psy or nuke since those don’t exist in his game.
As for Yu, def Yoshitsune
This fight looks like a modernized version of Elizabeth's fight in P3, where the difficulty lies on the restrictions and the insane punish they can deliver when you don't abide by them or get unlucky.
P3 Makoto could be structured like a timed puzzle and would probably have a timer before using Armageddon to end the encounter (or punish for breaking a hidden rule), give him multiple endures when he would be killed and make him a lot more aggressive on low health, make active use of other fusion skills like Infinity on his double turns (which would be bs but dayum, accounting he can dual summon persona he is just that insane). Make him a lot more focused on elemental/magic to complete the trifecta (P3p is MAG, P4p is STR, P5p is AGI)
P4 Yu would probably be a physical machine, Hassou Tobi as a constant insane damage pressure tool, massive Health pool, deadly physical attacks in general. Make his hidden rules about not being able to protect yourself as much from his hits.
Health wise: P4 >>> P5 > P3
Damage wise: P3 >>> P4 > P5
P3 should feel like trying to overcome an insurmountable wall, P4 should feel like fighting a Hero while being the monday villain.
@@henrychen310the most terrifyng thing is that this jonkler is just a cognition imagine how infernal is going to be fighting the real jomer
There's a lot of micro/macro optimizations you can make to make the fight easier and as short as 4 turns in heartless (tho I recommend 5 turns for more consistency) but this is pretty much what a normal clear looks like, the theory of atlus not playtesting this fight in heartless stays strong 🔥
Playtesting is for panzies.
smt fans when a fight is actually hard: yeah they didn't playtest this
smt fans with literally every other fight: lmao this is too easy
pick 1
@@ConCadd it's literally impossible to beat him on heartless while solo, hence "not playtested". everything else is done.
@@sydb_2895 "the boss fight designed for a party can't be completed solo"
damn that's crazy
@@ConCadd they've literally acknowledged solo battles with the new voice lines in EP:Aigis, and it's not unthinkable that players would try to approach the Joker fight similarly. i think it's a reasonable expectation.
Lots of things to say:
1. The amount of time I’ve laughed watching this made me my day 😂
2. Where did you get those costumes? Because I haven’t seen them in the game when in was playing
3. Thanks for showing the entire fight, but I think I’ll probably sit this one out so that I can stay sane
I forget the exact name, but it's a emo mod
Just a phase mod
Doesn't help that there was one clip where one dude spammed Therugy and when he lived he pulled will of rebelion, followed by two Sinful Shells
No kill quite like overkill
Bro..... Joker really said "I ain't playing" after Strikers and Royal just kicking his ass like crazy in this boss 🤣
Atlues be hitting us with the p5 bias making joker this hard 😂
they saw death getting chumped by theurgy and said "never again"
Ah yes. I too fell victim to DDS's demifiend.
congrats on the victory!!
Thank you!
Now imagine if he had inzanagi no okami picoro and would keep spamming myriad truths :D
I really hate Atlus superboss design because like 80% of the time it's just "Do everything within these super specific rules or die", not to mention them basically being complete RNG-fests. Honestly the only Megaten game to have consistently good superbosses is SMT IV Apocalypse. Which is nice because it has a shit ton of them lol.
I think Margaret on Persona 3 Portable was actually a pretty good boss fight but most haven’t done it since it’s from Portable
Bro took his heart
had a run just like your winning one. pretty early in my attempts actually, i think sub-20. it was the exact same. used armageddon and nuked that mascarade ahh teenager. after fighting elizabeth i learned to fight with a calculator next to me. i did the calculations and my total was 31,990 damage dealt. the phantom thief survived with 10 hp. after the sinful shell connected i went outside and touched grass. couldn't bring myself to fight after that. later on i fought this man for like nearly 2 more hours and i FINALLY got the kill with armageddon. from merciless lizzy to heartless joker bro i was ELATED.
thats my story. W video by the way without you i would never have known how to defeat joker.thx.
Demi fiend still the hardest in SMT history (Digital Devil saga ver) Smt V people have found ways too cheese him in 2 turns or just one. Fighting him normally thought ughhhhh is a long battle too long
But I think the hardest SMT battle without any cheese of all time is The new secret boss in SMT V Vengeance route, yes is more difficult than demi fiend and you can recruit demi fiend.
Joker does looks harder but Persona super bosses has those stupid restriction or secret rule that will just Kill you and there is no way to know...grandt Smt also does that but I don't think to the same extend.
Could have bee much much worse if Demi Fiend showed up instead of Joker also the real Joker isn't even this strong.
Why I dont like Persona boss fights? If I need to follow a guide to beat a superboss and had to follow an exact step by step method and some invisible rules, I am sorry that boss is shit.
Satan from DDS2 is up there as well
Least compared to Demi Fiend from DDS I didn't have to take notes of each turn and health
The real joker is even stronger, the cognitions of the protagonists aren’t as strong as they are. Plus joker doesn’t even have his strongest persona’s in episode aigis.
lmao As someone who's beaten every notorious Megaten superboss (except Heartless Joker so far) no this is not accurate at all. Gonna be a long response.
When talking about what's the hardest MegaTen boss, generally the community has a toss up between DDS1 Demi Fiend or DDS2 Satan (some people even include Raidou 1 Beelzebub on NG+, but I don't because I personally don't count NG+ difficulties), but the boss that I spent by far the most time on was DDS2 Satan. The prep time required for the grinding is insane (you're looking at 30-40+ hours just grinding in the last dungeon), and on top of that, you need to grind for rare drops from certain enemies to even unlock the fight (the rare drops unlock additional optional bosses which you must defeat before taking on Satan). Once the actual fight begins, it's complete and utter RNG hell. There's no Red Star cheese strat equivalent for DDS2 Satan, you need accurate math to keep track of his HP to prep for the often lethal phase transitions because there's no visible health bar, one of your party members MUST be gimped as a human at all times to fish for Hama blocks (because of Satan's unholy SIX press turns), you can't resist his bullshit because he negates all resistances at the start, he can Mamudoon your run at _any_ point, he can dogpile any party member at any point with nukes, and he has a nasty enrage condition where he wipes you every 4th turn if you aren't +3/-3 on buffs and he _loves_ to use Dekaja/Dekunda at inopportune times. This fight took me fuckin 8 hours to take down. DDS1 Demi Fiend took me 3 and a half, and Vengeance's superbosses took me less than an hour each.
SMT V's Satan pales in comparison to DDS2 Satan because the former has no enrage conditions and the restrictions are extremely lenient. I downed him in less than 5 tries. Masakado was way more difficult if I'm being honest because you need to build around his fight specifically.
Lmfao that opinion is crazy. No the secret superboss from SMT VV is not harder than DDS Demfiend. He isn’t even 20% as hard.
Demi fiend all over again... if you know YOU KNOW
I’m currently working towards beating this fight on heartless, I mostly just need to grind more and then it will be only a matter of time because doing this fight without armor of light and shoes of eminence (with enduring soul) is basically impossible (assuming you have base stats)
Update:
I officially beat him! Once I found my specific strategy it took like 3 tries and I got the required RNG
I guess atlus took the "p3r is too easy" DEADLY SERIOUS 💀💀💀
First everyone complains for years that the games are too easy, and then when they make it difficult, it's wrong again... Gamers 2024.
Coz it’s artificially hard. These rules are arbitrary and don’t really even test your skills.
@@helpihavebats6392 How else are they supposed to make it hard? A test of skills is nearly impossible in a numbers game with RNG, without implementing stuff from other genres.
28:00 “Overall I don’t know if I’d say I had fun or not cause honestly the RNG was just absolutely ridiculous, but hey, it was nice to have an actual tough fight come out of Persona, so we take those.”
I am happy it was that hard so idk who you’re referring to. Getting mad at hard things and failure is a normal human reaction, hence the rage compilation where I say things that are hyperbolic
@@totalwarANGEL Are the rules stated in game, or do you have to search it for yourself?
Cause... Pretend the internet goes down. You can't just look it up. These rules sound ridiculous to just figure out yourself.
@@UltraKardas They REALLY assumed it wouldn't be possible to bruteforce and that you'd have to collaborate with other players to figure it out, like a puzzle. That's how we solved Elizabeth back in the day, and nowadays she's considered easy because her rules are so simple.
So this boss is basically the Persona version of the Demifiend super boss from SMT V/ V Vengeance, and the Demifiend fight from the first Digital Devil Saga.
So this is why P5 is easy, the protag is strong af.
Finally, a modern Persona game paying homage to the Old Ways, putting a little of the old SMT back into persona.
Feels like the fight designers took some pages out of a FFXIV raid boss with all the conditionals and time limit, were the other superbosses ever so picky? (I know they almost all crack down on nulls, but buff/debuff checks seems new to me.)
Joker Persona 5
lore accurate fight against joker persona 5
Jonkler from ballsona
Jiggler from Freaksona
Well. He is not Joking around. Just saying.
Persona fan discovers what a real Atlus boss looks like
Will Joker be the DemiFiend of Persona games?
lmaoooo between your humor and the Helene shit take my sub dawg you're mad funny and you earned it! and NO EXP NO ITEMS? MANNNN
Yeah. Definitely going to do Normal just to fight Joker. I have been playing on Heartless difficulty.
Of course he is, have you played Persona 5?! Joker is that guy
Joker spent all his time in those cameos in other games preparing for this one.
Demi-Fiend just standing to the side saying "you haven't seen anything yet"
bro is crashing out
@@Astral76 just a lil bit
@@YandereGogeta ngl you’re video seems more like a cautionary tale than a guide to the fight lmao. Makes merciless priestess without media look like tutorial to the battle menu.
@@Astral76Priestess without Media is genuinely not that bad.
Jack Frost and Tarunda really guts her damage and her secret Weakness (extra dmg but no bonus turn) to Fire means Mc and Junpei can take her HP down pretty quickly. At worst you bring a couple aoe Hp items.
@@helpihavebats6392 yeah true but you don’t know that the first time unless you grind yukari so it sets a high expectation for the games difficulty just for the emperor and empress fight to follow a pattern of affinities.
1. Heartless Joker is truly merciless
2. Joker’s rules are more cracked then any of the velvet siblings holy hell
3. Ey I see that just a phase mod nice one brother
4. I’m not even sure this is possible on heartless for me anyway
as expected, thats my goat!
I thought I was in the clear with my powerful persona build, then I saw the Ren boss and was fangirling, but then after getting mopped on my 5th turn. I accepted that he was here to penetrate any mortal that dare face him, and I have been scared to interact with him since 😭.
The amount of hours spent preparing fight comes from all the collective pain that the Myriad Truths inflicted on its victims- now its your turn.
Wait until we fight Aigis in P6!
Atlus: Oh you guys broke Elizabeth? Get a load of this!
15:30 Gotta love the Metaphor ReFantazio Music here 😂
@@danny18894 it’s peak
Bro was losing his marbles at 23:04
I really enjoy the ragequit part, it was exquisite to see someone other than myself suffering with this battle.
Hes the golden child of Atlus, I fully expected it to be like this. Lol....
The reason blaze of life does more is because theurgies COMBINE both attacking stats when calcing damage
Effectively (at 99 each) almost 200 stat points for one skill
My friend that lives in japan (the real Shine Megami veteran) didn't have any problem with this fight on Heartless Mode. But he played Shin Megami Tensei games since 90's, so it's not a surprise that he didn't have any problem boss.
Demi Fiend was fun but these "follow hidden rules otherwise hit kill" fights are getting out of hand
The rage levels were getting to SLH's matador runs lmao.
But good job on beating him, he's harsh. And at least the strategy to beat him isnt as asinine as it is for Demi Fiend in DDS1.
If there is a persona 2 remake I want Philemon to be this but even harder
Watching persona players fight SMT level bosses will always bring me great joy
I’m glad you enjoyed it 🙏🏻
Yakuza fan spotted, glad to see you've played the dlc as well, hearing Neon Sunset in the video!
The Judgment games are some of my favorite games of all time. Lost Judgment in particular is my second favorite it’s so good
@@YandereGogeta Lost Judgment is my favorite Yakuza game of all time.
Is it just me or am I the only one that appreciates the RE4 safe theme at the end.
I guess you could say we never saw it coming
This fight is absolutely absurd
Yandere's descent into madness is so sad bro...😭😭
i'm planning to fight him this night after work but after seeing this vid?
yea i'm good
21:41 thats one thing atlus games are really good for
"We did it! We beat Persona's hardest boss! .. Why do I hear Normal Battle music?"
My lineup was:
1. Aigis (Default: Orpheos Telos w/max En and Mg stats w/ Morning Star and Almighty Amp + Boost)
2. Yukari for healing (Only purpose + items)
3. Metis for Phys output DPS and Maturanda for Attack buff
4. Koromaru for Delibitate (Only purpose + items)
And I made sure everyone was holding onto their max and best items/armor. This helps survives the ailments turns, rounds and everything else (Except for Down Shot + Cruel Attack). Have an endure or switch to a Persona with Enduring Soul.
Then I’d spam the heck out of Fuuka Theurgy for Concentrate buffs and Heat Riser buffs.
Lastly, DPS Morning Star like hell and Metis high Phys attacks. Wait till about turn 12 and save all party Theurgies and once he’s about 15,000+ damage, I spammed all Thuergies with buffed party, debuffed Joker, and fully concentrated + charged party.
Done. Joker was finished.
(FYI - this took me over 17 times before I got the secret sauce to success for me)
I endured this for an entire weekend when I was off work....I finally beat him....0/10 wouldn't do again but 10/10 fight.
joker is by far my favourite protag in the series and has the most personality, so personally i like to think he is the strongest, mainly because of the costumes basically grants any persona user in 5 super strength and acrobatic abilities, without the suit he is equal to the other protagonists
I'm all for difficult bosses, but having hidden rules that instantly cause the battle to end with Sinful Shell if you don't follow them is just a stupid way to add difficulty. If they don't want ailment moves to work on Joker, have him immediately react with Maruki's detox. If they don't want you to apply too many debuffs, have Futaba counter debuff moves by casting heat riser.
If a player has to look up a guide to even understand why they lost, the boss is badly designed.
Theurgies do indeed scale off of both magic and strength
I am impressed there was a madlad that beat him with 2 man team.
Lavenza:" Hold my beer"
my man was getting so angry that THE mr. persona was beating him in a persona game.
True Masakado and Joker competing for who can be the most bullshit secret boss in modern Megaten
I remember years ago I created the perfect satanael before the royal version came out
In response to the title screen all I have to say is THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID.
Made it from the screen to the ring to the pen to the king
I’m going to lie now
This made me happy
27:00 made me laugh so hard 😭😭
I think junpeis theurgy just scales of Strength
Nope this is stuff that has been datamined. all Theurgy no matter who or what the Theurgy is scale off of STR + MAG.
I beat heartless Joker, here are some things I used to help make it less painful:
FORTUNE TAROT CARDS: Please for the love of GOD, grind up like 15+ fortune tarot, it makes tanking jokers attacked feasible
Magic ability rapier: There’s a weapon for Mitsuru that gives her magic ability, pair that with the ice amp accessory and her damage gets a lot better
Incense cards: Use as many str and mag boosting incense on your teammates, it’ll massively boost theurgy damage as it scales with BOTH Str and Mag
Finally, Use a damn calculator when fighting Joker. It helps tremendously to avoid doing too much damage to get the full heal in phase two AND Let’s you know when to pop Armageddon to finish the fight
Good luck to those still fighting him! It’s an RNG fest, but a winnable one.
Now that’s what I call a final boss