I am a firm believer that it DOES NOT take 2 people to detroy a relationship with a narcissist. If one person brings his/ her best self into a relationship with a narcissist, and the narc brings his/her worst self, it took one person to destroy the relationship, the narcissist.
Omg I came to the same realization. I remember my mom always saying, “It takes two,” after being completely manipulated by my husband. And I would blurt out without thinking, “but it only takes one to destroy it.” I went into that relationship with conscious determination to do right by him, and I stuck with it. You can do anything and everything to “fix” the relationship and it does nothing but make him worse bc it gives them the power. People that haven’t been in a narcissistic relationship can’t possibly understand how deadening it is to the human spirit. I mean even your own normally loving and supportive parents can be turned against you. And I am still trying to find my joy, find my self again, even 10 years later. Much💞
OMG! Thank you for explaining Scapegoating! I’ve recently driven our motorhome by myself from Western Washington to Arizona to heal. My husband has been triangulating/scapegoating me against my kids for years. Playing into their adolescent view of a parent with standards. They’ve used this position to abuse me too. I couldn’t heal in place very well due to this, so I left. I’m living alone in our RV with my two small dogs. I have one friend in the area. Working on making new ones. I think I will rebuild my life from here. I don’t know how to un-scapegoat myself! It hurts too much!
Carol, as hard as it is, you did the right thing! Sometimes, leaving the chaos is the only way to gain clarity. Getting out of the burning building is the only way to avoid being burned or to heal! Blessings to you on your healing journey.
51 I am female married to narcissist 23 years together didn’t realize till 2020 spiritual awakening then I researched narcissist walking on eggshells twisting everything back at me belittling me. No spiritual connection for him thinks I am crazy for seeing what is happening cause he sees nothing cause ego thinks he knows everything but clueless to what is happening. All about him says I have changed I have changed. I have learned to control my emotions so he doesn’t feed off me. I thought at first I was here to help him but can’t help someone who sees nothing wrong with self. It’s all mental no physical. No empathy. Half the time he doesn’t even listen to me but if I do it back it’s wrong I am always wrong in his eyes. I know I am right. Thanks I am thankful for all the videos I am Empath feel deeper than most. I am to sensitive he says like it’s a bad thing I know it’s a good thing to know my true self. Just like he loves looking at porn I said it is sin with the eyes cheating with your eyes no it’s not in his blind eyes. ❤to all
exhaustion...yes...life takes on a negative quality... I'd add hopelessness can set in. If it weren't for my faith to hold on to, it would be hopeless. Thank you for you all's insight!
Please do more on how victims of narc abuse can evaluate counsellors BEFORE suffering the additional trauma of going to the wrong ‘helper’ with the perp. Many years ago I persuaded my sis to go for counselling twice only for her to experience exactly the mutualization and additional trauma you described. At the time I had virtually NO knowledge of narc abuse but, with videos like these, I now recognize that was likely her experience. What questions can we, as traumatized survivors, ask of counsellors in an introductory meeting to see if they will help, or harm, us? I met with counsellors first by myself before including my husband (having read The Dance of Anger - H D Lerner and accepting that I can only change myself).
I went to a therapist with my narc husband. She immediately after appointment one said we should see her separately for the next few appointments, then he stopped going. She was incredibly good.
Ask very direct questions of your therapist. As a therapist, I can say not enough people will do this. Interview them just as you would anyone for a job interview. Lots of questions about experience, education matters a little, experience is where we learn as therapists.
This was truly an invaluable discussion everyone Thank you ❤ I just love your passion Dr Hawkins I love that you understand more than most counsellors, therapists , clergy etc It's asif you live our lives I just feel so validated after this video Even my pastor called me over sensitive No one can truly ever understand toxicity, until they've lived it😢
This is by far one of my most favorite RUclips topics ! Thanks Dr Hawkins , Katy and Dr Thomas !!!!!!! I really love this ! I will share this to whom I come across because all you mentioned is really referring to what I’m going through being abused and I lived it and experienced every detail . I’m fact , I have up in my counsellor who is still seeking to make me reconcile to a spouse who constantly put the blame on me and telling me I am passive aggressive . I’ve done my part and did what any Christian woman would do and I believe the Lord has released me and it’s time to move on ! Praying I get all the courage and asking the Lord to time it right as far as my son understanding all this and he is getting there ! Thank you from the bottom of my heart
THANK YOU 😢This channel has been my lifeline for sanity. I find crying through most of the first time listening then trying to listen to the second go around as I'm thinking to myself I just want to be loved and this man gets it finally after all the terrible therapists, counselors, and church leaderships as experienced more added on HORRIBLE emotional abuse. I was listening thinking of all the comments I could make and it was overwhelming. It is a process of healing once you hear people say your thoughts and experiences exactly 💯. I never understood the term scapegoating until this episode. I wish they talked about the dog whistling that they do in public that adds to the abuse with triangulation.
Yes I agree.I have been a volunteer for an organisation however I felt there was not very much genuine kindness in it.I now think I had wasted my time.I am amazed at how heartless some people can be however I hope you can find some peace in the near future
Years ago We went to a Christian counselor. At first we had separate sessions. I went first and poured out my heart and a lot of examples of abusive behaviors and situations. I thought I was very thorough. I was questioned about love and respect. I had also read that book prior to the session so I wasn’t caught off completely unaware of the latest book. I did however ask the counselor how I could be expected to respect with such bad behaviors. Next session was my husband’s turn for a private session. A few sessions later after a few weeks we were brought together for a couple session. The counselor at one point asked my husband how it was going with my procrastination problem. I was floored. I didn’t say a thing in my defense. I was horrified and felt like a rape victim on trial on the witness stand.
I’m so sorry you experienced that. A lot of therapist are very ignorant and naive, believing most people have good intentions and just ‘need some guidance’.
Very helpful, relatable, and encouraging that you truly “get it”. Thank you all. Look forward to part 2. This was definitely a podcast to flag and to share.
I've experienced all of these feelings in my marriage, but the isolation is more self-imposed. When your partner seems like they could be "at the end of their rope" at any time, you spend energy to avoid that, and tend to not spend the time and effort on other relationships. Especially if you are more introverted to begin with, like me.
My mom left my dad after 22 years of emotional abuse. It took me a long time to realize she was right for leaving. And now my dad treats me exactly like her and I stood up for myself he said I let things bother me too much
One big omission IMHO is mental illness. Depression, Anxiety, Bipolar Disorder. I think these are all huge flags of emotional abuse and protential narcissistic behaviour
I totally agree with you. I was diagnosed with all of these disorders by a GP and psychiatrist. This just helped my narcissist husband to blame everything on me because I had mental illness and was on medication. I have found out about narcissism now and I have done a lot of research into it. I certainly did have a problem and I believe it was CPTSD caused by narcissistic abuse over 37years of toxic marriage. I am out now and off the medication and depression is gone. Thank God I left and am healing.
Great podcast. I have been married to my covert nacissist husband for 25 years. Thank you for sharing your wisdom so we can make sound decisions. It is draining to live with a covert narcissist and I am reafy to be free of that.
You all helped me so much many years ago on a personal level. I love your books and this channel. I’m still benefiting from them. Thank you for all you do to help people!
Constant invalidation and being emotionally exhausted is REAL. Please focus on the damage caused by adult child to parent. I’ve been scapegoated by narc mom since childhood… friggin messy
I tried to go no contact an was stalked through plp who knew me briefly or family members.. stating they give me a chance to respond before they go any further . from a parent here classic emotional abuse ! Therapist I talked to had no idea really about NPD . I was silenced again 😭therapy still helpful as hell is no one turn to .. like many other survivors...I'm 100 yrs old Really !
I already do mutualising in our relationship. I need to remove the log from my own eye, so i can see clearly. So i am always apologising because he is "having to walk on eggshells" as he tells me. "NO," is the first word out of his mouth about every i say. He would never take responsibility, there wouldn't be any un-scapegoating in our relationship. Yes! Im always told to stop "going back to the past, move forward...."
This is awful. I’m sad this keeps happening to me and other people! I’m disgusted but glad I got out!! I’m just still getting the abuse from him though and without all the things I’ve learned from you guys I wouldn’t be seeing these red flags like fireworks right now!
Dr Hawkins I’m in Tucson n I need help! I have an rv this person has abused me n I have no help. N no one wants to help in these situations! I am at a loss here n I’m exhausted
Listening to this video has opened my eyes to the fact that I have checked every box for that list of signs of being emotionally abused, but I have also checked a few for the narcissistic abuse category and my wife and I are currently in marriage counselling for this very thing, but not necessarily for that reason. Low self-esteem. Check. Self-doubt. Check. Emotional turmoil. Check. Isolation. Check. Walking on eggshells. Check. Guilt and self blame. Check. Feeling powerless and controlled. Check. Detached. Check. Constant criticism. Check. Fear and anxiety. Check. And I feel like we have both become emotional abusers to each other.
Great topic. My mother called me "a goddamned stupid idiot, a godamned worthless bucket of trouble, a godamned brat, a stupid oaf and other unkind names. She hated me. I was the middle child & mother's scapegoat. The 1st 9 yrs of my life was a living hell. From 10 to 18. mother married my biological father because she was pregnant at 18 and unnmarried & thought my dad's family was wealthy. They were farmers & did not want for anything whereas mother grew up on the wrong side of the tracks & her parents wete dirt poor. When I turned 10, she divorced my dad & marrird her boss, who was a rocket scientest. They became millionaires. Stepdad died in 2003. Mommy Dearest is 96 & lives in a nursing home. When my 32 yr old son passed away from an accidental drug overdose in 2012, I think she was jealous of me getting all the attention & she had no control over my son: funeral. So Mother called me up & from out of nowhere said "when you were born I couldn't love you. I tried and tried but no matter how much I tried, I just couldn't love you. Will you forgive me?" Well she didn't have to tell me that; I never felt any love from her. i look like my father & if i approached her to ask a questions she'd say "NO. GET OUTSIDE".. I had no self esteem & in class I'd dissassociate & inevitab the teacher would call on me to answer a question. Of course I had zoned out and was unable to answer the question. My stepdad molested me (tried feeling my breasts) from age 10 until he died at 73. My maternal grandmother sexually molested me (I cant even repeat what she did to me it was so awful) & when I told Mother what granny did to me, she said, "You're a Liar!" Mother still calls me "Stupid" I last saw her 2 yrs ago. She told me "You don't matter to me and you never have. The only kid I cared about is Sharon (my 76 yr old half-sister.) I cried all the way home from CA to AZ, an 8 hourr trip home. I recently received a call from my half-sister & she told me "When Mother dies you will receive $100.00." What a slap in the face. The sadness and anger i feel is bringing me down. I dont think I will get over the hurt from childhood & certa8nly only getting $100 when Mother has about $1,000,000 in the bank. The woman should never had 3 kids. My brother hung himself 13 yrs ago when he 2as 55. i am 71 & probably only have 10 yrs left due to coronary artery disease, CHF, Diabeties 2, high blood pressure, high cholesterol. I'm sure my miserable home life has affected my health. I hate my mom and sister. Maybe when they pass away I will forget about them!
I hear a lot of hurt, anger, and resentment. You've been through much loss and yes, your health has suffered. I hope you're getting the help you need, to be emotionally, mentally, and physically healthy.
Your family hasn't been good to you and they are not good for you! However, you cannot keep sipping on a concoction of lemonade made from a bunch of rotten lemons, constantly getting sick from its toxic ingredients, yet hoping the next sip won't make you feel ill. Get away from these miserable, unhealthy family members. You don't owe them anything and they will never give you the love and respect that you deserve. Uncomfortable facts!
Is it possible that a victim of abuse can project their emotions, sadness, anger to others close to them? Do the victims estrange from close family members?
Day in & day out degrading CONDITIONING or programming sarcasm negative words inculcated to the victims. Goodhearted, patience, loving kind hearted persons are the victims. Clean speech. They won't speak profanity or rude words. Victims look like saints. Victims are gentle hearted, mellow, quiet, tearful, NUMB. NUMB. Emotions 😢😢😢😢😢😢
FOR ANYONE GOIN THREW THIS, HERES SOME ADVICE... In my experience, I can totally relate, but here's the thing... as you educate yourself and try and go within to listen to your inner voice that intuitive part of yourself..and yes its there don't think its not. I truly believe this is part of our design as women. We mirror our partner's is how we were manipulated, bamboozled and trauma bonded into a 1 sided relationship. If anything you should deem yourself one hell of a catch because he mirrored you back and that's how you fell for him its a manipulation tactic that probably deserves an Oscar unfortunately for his performance in bullshitizm! Don't think he won't get his though.. they ALWAYS do! There karma is a failure to grow, if you can't grow with someone then it's just a bunch of time wasted and sooner or later they will meet their expiration date due to all the growing you do which creates indifferent.. and when you've reached this point you will detach from them. You will see them for what they really are. When this happens you will see that their cruel treatment of you was stemed from what's called blind jealousy which from my experience is why they act the way they do. Their children sadly. Consider the man your having issues with as like a lost boy. A lost boy doesn't have the capacity for emotional intelligence unless they do the work, become aware of cause and effect and deal with their own demons. (Therapy) Narc don't tend to deal with their demons if anything they become what broke them, hence the many masks of bullshit they wear. to the one reading this.. please try and realize that this is his perception of you not yours. A lot of our thought feeling and emotions about ourselves especially if we've been in a abusive relationship for quite awhile .. those are not your feelings of yourself, It's called projection. When someone unconsciously attributes their thoughts, feelings, or behaviors to another person, they are projecting So basically what I'm saying is deep down how your feeling from being conditioned (emotionally abused)is how he really feels about himself deep down. He had to break you emotionally because your not in a real relationship. You can't be strong let alone healthy in the eyes of a narcissist. Their's a whole in their love bucket that creates the dynamics of harvesting your goodness to fill their dysfunctional need beast selves! I kinda see it like their getting back at their caregiver threw the maltreatment of you, the emotional whipping girl. It's bullshit and to anyone reading my comment.. you deserve so much better honey, I can't express this enough! Please muster the strength to leave..risk assessment it's time to go! Your mental health as well as your emune system is on the line!❤❤❤❤❤
Muster one's STRENGTH TO LEAVE . Become independent!!! Think for yourself. Make GOOD HEALTHY CHOICES and change.....move forward look for healthy partners. Grounded in SANITY of an ADULT!!!!!! Independent STRENGTHS !!!! 😊😅😊😃😊😇👍👍👍👍
Why do the thing in the first place? Sorry is an after thought and for an accident. What these people do is on purpose with the intent to hurt, so saying sorry is ridiculous. Can you please speak to that.
Were I am and did even realize thats what was going on even at my age.the anxiety and stress keeps me depressed and I'm not moving how do I become to flow again I need help moving forward.
“I’m afraid you’re going to find him charming .” No, I’m convinced you’re going to find HER sweet and vulnerable. Especially since you can’t talk about this in any other way than presupposing a male abuser. Let alone ignoring the fact that a man can possibly be changed, but a woman virtually can’t.
Ridiculing & teasing games so as to be COMPETITIVE Behavior. He enjoys being in COMPETITION with everyone especially his LOVE OF HIS LIFE. Significant partner he says " I LOVE U".❤ let's poke fun at each others flaws especially when she is feeling low. Having a bad day physically. She is experiencing a backache, & her teeth hurt 😢😢😢😢. Last thing she deserves poking fun Ridiculing her problems.😢😢😢 She needs a COMFORTING SUPPORTIVE Positive gentle empathic understanding WORDS to COMFORT HER. Offer to take to doctors to help her feel WELL CARED FOR. With caring LOVING KINDNESS LOVE Actions. Cherish her your SIGNIFICANT PARTNER, FRIEND. 😊😊😊😊😊 SOFT words & gentle hugs.
Isolation yes over time to the point his addiction landed him in the hospital and never told my family because i was embarrassed when I exposed him. He became enraged!!!!
It's usually complicated with compounding issues and compounding sin including varying levels of frustration , retaliation, and coping mechanisms.... sometimes from outside the relationship. I'm guessing (from a Christian man's perspective) that his refusal to listen was related to other issues that have been bottled up (very common). If not, then my next guess would be he was offended by something you said or the way you said it (men will likely withdraw if they feel disrespected). It could be none of the above. It could be something petty and silly or something serious and deep. You have to find a way to get him to open up and communicate. If he doesn't feel safe making himself vulnerable with you, then it will take more work on your part to coax it out of him. If he makes himself vulnerable and you attack him (if he feels attacked) then he may withdraw for an even longer period. Men are not as emotionally strong as women. The exterior may be tough but there is a soft underbelly that men are very protective of. They will put up walls, but you can win him over.
Yep I’ve dealt with that before… but I get told it’s just my imagination I’m not getting enough. It’s hard, because I’m nervous to talk to him about it because he spends most of his time on his computer when he’s home… I used to justify his behavior not even two years ago, but I started doing some major healing and it’s opened my eyes anyways I never thought. I went to get healing, because I truly believed by him that I was the problem and I want to get help
I always justifying my mother's behavior because I think she not have bad intentions. When I feel bad and crying then she gaslighting me and others about the reasons... she never accepting that is her fault and I think did she really can't understand and she think something else? Or she pretending that she can't understand because she want always seems right even when she wrong. Well better say...did she being paranoid at the moment or she manipulating! I mean if she really mean whatever she saying or she just saying but don't mean it. Hard to find out... She often blackmailing me abusing me and much more...she makes me at the moment do whatever she want or just sit down and shut up. Worth to mention I'm 29 years old. I will delete this comment later because she is already aware that I often complaining about her, I don't want she understand that I complained about her one more time. My mom hate my father and maybe she unconsciously taking revenge from him through me by abusing me so many times she told me that I need to change my genes....even sometimes she saying my facial expression is not good... Often she abusing me when I crying or I complaining about something. I can't even cook whenever I want and whatever I want, already long time I didn't cook lentils because she saying me it takes long time I should not waste time but when she cooking something simple it takes around two hours even when she boiling potatoes because everything she washing for so many times and mostly whatever she doing takes long time, often she makes others to wait but she don't like when me or someone makes her to wait, often she stopping me to do something but she always have justification, doesn't matter how many things I doing during day often seems not enough for her. Recently she cooked lentils after of few month's. Years ago i used this situation to detect some people which like to take advantage of others, some people had told me to not show my vulnerabilities so it's difficult to not complain, in life everything have good and bad sides, the good side of the vulnerabilities is that giving me the chance to detect so many things like why and how some people using different type of manipulative methods in a purpose to take advantage of someone's vulnerable situation for their own benefit, sometimes they can try to manipulate others and confuse them about the exact person because the person didn't did whatever they was want... Some people can intentionally sent malware to the device's and pretend it happen accidentally. Some people want to be "one step" forward in a purpose to know if they can continue their previous manipulative scheme or they need to make a new... Year's ago happened few incidents me and some other's let them to think that they are "one step" forward by this way we detected so many things including someone who is sociopath. According to my opinion in some cases need to make the manipulation immediately fail, but sometimes need to wait little bit to makes them think thay they are forward in a purpose that they wont change the scheme. I think its fair to detect because it is so much unfair when some people taking advantage of vulnerable people. Some people intentionally can disturb and distract someone and not let to complete whatever doing at the moment, behind it can have different intentions for example may they already "created" manipulative scheme and they need to make their lies seems true thats why when they know the exact person or person's gonna make the manipulation to fail then they can try to prevent it. Of course sometimes can happen accidentally but if keep happening often then means.... My mom often during day disturbing me distracting me because she think I should every moment be ready to help her in something but about others I can say they not doing it for the same reason. My mom know psychology so well and I wonder why she let some others to take advantage of her and me? I prefer to think she was want to proof me that they are manipulative... Of course I know so many good people that they never will take advantage of others vulnerabilities. I doing so many things during day I think I have the right to take rest or to take care of my basic needs whenever I need and not whenever she saying me. When her mood is good then she behaving so nice and kind with me she saying me sweet words... she did and doing so many good things for me. My father years ago had told me that she was after him and decided to make a deal with him to have a child but my mother had told me that he was after her and often he was "disturbing" her and then tried to left a good opinion...I don't think so she raped him😅 he cheated his wife with my mother. In 2017 we had issues when his wife was aware that her husband start to talk with us again since end of 2015 My mother's ex husband cheated her with other women's that happened before she meet with my father. Some people intentionally tried to provoke me in a purpose to use my reaction against me, they was aware of the situation and they did it because they was need to make the situation more worst in a purpose to get benefit of it. When someone don't know about what's going on then ok I won't feel that much bad but if the person is well aware and keep trying to do everything in a purpose to make the situation more difficult then it's more worst.
31:47 Mountains can be taken down by erosion. That kind of erosion isn't deliberately and maliciously done, by playing God. Imo these people enjoy playing God.
They insist & persistent to get ATTENTION/ADMIRATION for his physical fine LOOKS & HIS FAST Flashy CARS . See ME! Adore admire me!!! He says. She says " your not so great. ( she's going to suffer his rude words that cut deep. 😢😢😢😢😮
I am a firm believer that it DOES NOT take 2 people to detroy a relationship with a narcissist. If one person brings his/ her best self into a relationship with a narcissist, and the narc brings his/her worst self, it took one person to destroy the relationship, the narcissist.
AMEN!... 💯
Omg I came to the same realization. I remember my mom always saying, “It takes two,” after being completely manipulated by my husband. And I would blurt out without thinking, “but it only takes one to destroy it.” I went into that relationship with conscious determination to do right by him, and I stuck with it. You can do anything and everything to “fix” the relationship and it does nothing but make him worse bc it gives them the power. People that haven’t been in a narcissistic relationship can’t possibly understand how deadening it is to the human spirit. I mean even your own normally loving and supportive parents can be turned against you. And I am still trying to find my joy, find my self again, even 10 years later. Much💞
I totally agrred.
I completely agree with what you said 💯 % !!!!
@@aveleedeleon7694MUCH LOVE ❤
OMG! Thank you for explaining Scapegoating! I’ve recently driven our motorhome by myself from Western Washington to Arizona to heal. My husband has been triangulating/scapegoating me against my kids for years. Playing into their adolescent view of a parent with standards. They’ve used this position to abuse me too. I couldn’t heal in place very well due to this, so I left. I’m living alone in our RV with my two small dogs. I have one friend in the area. Working on making new ones. I think I will rebuild my life from here. I don’t know how to un-scapegoat myself! It hurts too much!
Carol, as hard as it is, you did the right thing! Sometimes, leaving the chaos is the only way to gain clarity. Getting out of the burning building is the only way to avoid being burned or to heal! Blessings to you on your healing journey.
I did the same and in a van now. 40+ years of marriage. 🥹
I’m in awe of you! Wish I could join you there! We could create a survivors compound:)
51 I am female married to narcissist 23 years together didn’t realize till 2020 spiritual awakening then I researched narcissist walking on eggshells twisting everything back at me belittling me. No spiritual connection for him thinks I am crazy for seeing what is happening cause he sees nothing cause ego thinks he knows everything but clueless to what is happening. All about him says I have changed I have changed. I have learned to control my emotions so he doesn’t feed off me. I thought at first I was here to help him but can’t help someone who sees nothing wrong with self. It’s all mental no physical. No empathy. Half the time he doesn’t even listen to me but if I do it back it’s wrong I am always wrong in his eyes. I know I am right. Thanks I am thankful for all the videos I am Empath feel deeper than most. I am to sensitive he says like it’s a bad thing I know it’s a good thing to know my true self. Just like he loves looking at porn I said it is sin with the eyes cheating with your eyes no it’s not in his blind eyes. ❤to all
exhaustion...yes...life takes on a negative quality... I'd add hopelessness can set in. If it weren't for my faith to hold on to, it would be hopeless. Thank you for you all's insight!
Please do more on how victims of narc abuse can evaluate counsellors BEFORE suffering the additional trauma of going to the wrong ‘helper’ with the perp. Many years ago I persuaded my sis to go for counselling twice only for her to experience exactly the mutualization and additional trauma you described. At the time I had virtually NO knowledge of narc abuse but, with videos like these, I now recognize that was likely her experience. What questions can we, as traumatized survivors, ask of counsellors in an introductory meeting to see if they will help, or harm, us? I met with counsellors first by myself before including my husband (having read The Dance of Anger - H D Lerner and accepting that I can only change myself).
I went to a therapist with my narc husband. She immediately after appointment one said we should see her separately for the next few appointments, then he stopped going. She was incredibly good.
Ask very direct questions of your therapist. As a therapist, I can say not enough people will do this. Interview them just as you would anyone for a job interview. Lots of questions about experience, education matters a little, experience is where we learn as therapists.
This was truly an invaluable discussion everyone
Thank you ❤
I just love your passion Dr Hawkins
I love that you understand more than most counsellors, therapists , clergy etc
It's asif you live our lives
I just feel so validated after this video
Even my pastor called me over sensitive
No one can truly ever understand toxicity, until they've lived it😢
This is by far one of my most favorite RUclips topics ! Thanks Dr Hawkins , Katy and Dr Thomas !!!!!!! I really love this ! I will share this to whom I come across because all you mentioned is really referring to what I’m going through being abused and I lived it and experienced every detail . I’m fact , I have up in my counsellor who is still seeking to make me reconcile to a spouse who constantly put the blame on me and telling me I am passive aggressive . I’ve done my part and did what any Christian woman would do and I believe the Lord has released me and it’s time to move on ! Praying I get all the courage and asking the Lord to time it right as far as my son understanding all this and he is getting there ! Thank you from the bottom of my heart
THANK YOU 😢This channel has been my lifeline for sanity. I find crying through most of the first time listening then trying to listen to the second go around as I'm thinking to myself I just want to be loved and this man gets it finally after all the terrible therapists, counselors, and church leaderships as experienced more added on HORRIBLE emotional abuse. I was listening thinking of all the comments I could make and it was overwhelming. It is a process of healing once you hear people say your thoughts and experiences exactly 💯. I never understood the term scapegoating until this episode. I wish they talked about the dog whistling that they do in public that adds to the abuse with triangulation.
Yes I agree.I have been a volunteer for an organisation however I felt there was not very much genuine kindness in it.I now think I had wasted my time.I am amazed at how heartless some people can be however I hope you can find some peace in the near future
😢 I’m sorry. I know how you feel. It sucks
Years ago We went to a Christian counselor. At first we had separate sessions. I went first and poured out my heart and a lot of examples of abusive behaviors and situations. I thought I was very thorough. I was questioned about love and respect. I had also read that book prior to the session so I wasn’t caught off completely unaware of the latest book. I did however ask the counselor how I could be expected to respect with such bad behaviors. Next session was my husband’s turn for a private session. A few sessions later after a few weeks we were brought together for a couple session. The counselor at one point asked my husband how it was going with my procrastination problem. I was floored. I didn’t say a thing in my defense. I was horrified and felt like a rape victim on trial on the witness stand.
🟢That counselor wasn't being a man of God.
😢❤
I’m so sorry you experienced that. A lot of therapist are very ignorant and naive, believing most people have good intentions and just ‘need some guidance’.
Very helpful, relatable, and encouraging that you truly “get it”. Thank you all. Look forward to part 2.
This was definitely a podcast to flag and to share.
I've experienced all of these feelings in my marriage, but the isolation is more self-imposed. When your partner seems like they could be "at the end of their rope" at any time, you spend energy to avoid that, and tend to not spend the time and effort on other relationships. Especially if you are more introverted to begin with, like me.
My mom left my dad after 22 years of emotional abuse. It took me a long time to realize she was right for leaving. And now my dad treats me exactly like her and I stood up for myself he said I let things bother me too much
One big omission IMHO is mental illness. Depression, Anxiety, Bipolar Disorder. I think these are all huge flags of emotional abuse and protential narcissistic behaviour
I totally agree with you. I was diagnosed with all of these disorders by a GP and psychiatrist. This just helped my narcissist husband to blame everything on me because I had mental illness and was on medication. I have found out about narcissism now and I have done a lot of research into it. I certainly did have a problem and I believe it was CPTSD caused by narcissistic abuse over 37years of toxic marriage. I am out now and off the medication and depression is gone. Thank God I left and am healing.
I LOVE ALL OF YOU.THANK U ALL.GOD BLESS U AS WELL PLEASE KEEP UP UR HELP.THANK YOU
Great podcast. I have been married to my covert nacissist husband for 25 years. Thank you for sharing your wisdom so we can make sound decisions. It is draining to live with a covert narcissist and I am reafy to be free of that.
You all helped me so much many years ago on a personal level. I love your books and this channel. I’m still benefiting from them. Thank you for all you do to help people!
Excellent thank you soo very much ...this is definately one of my top favorites... i feel seen and heard.
I’d find myself mutualizing bc I was too afraid to say “YOU” and stating what hurt me. “We need to work on reciprocity.” 🤦🏽♀️
Constant invalidation and being emotionally exhausted is REAL. Please focus on the damage caused by adult child to parent. I’ve been scapegoated by narc mom since childhood… friggin messy
Fear and anxiety is in the narc its why they do alot of what they do.
I tried to go no contact an was stalked through plp who knew me briefly or family members.. stating they give me a chance to respond before they go any further . from a parent here classic emotional abuse ! Therapist I talked to had no idea really about NPD . I was silenced again 😭therapy still helpful as hell is no one turn to .. like many other survivors...I'm 100 yrs old Really !
I already do mutualising in our relationship. I need to remove the log from my own eye, so i can see clearly. So i am always apologising because he is "having to walk on eggshells" as he tells me.
"NO," is the first word out of his mouth about every i say.
He would never take responsibility, there wouldn't be any un-scapegoating in our relationship.
Yes! Im always told to stop "going back to the past, move forward...."
The victim can also feel very alone
This is awful. I’m sad this keeps happening to me and other people! I’m disgusted but glad I got out!! I’m just still getting the abuse from him though and without all the things I’ve learned from you guys I wouldn’t be seeing these red flags like fireworks right now!
Good for you for leaving!
What if the abuser won’t go to counseling? How can you tell the victim is a victim?
Dr Hawkins I’m in Tucson n I need help! I have an rv this person has abused me n I have no help. N no one wants to help in these situations! I am at a loss here n I’m exhausted
Listening to this video has opened my eyes to the fact that I have checked every box for that list of signs of being emotionally abused, but I have also checked a few for the narcissistic abuse category and my wife and I are currently in marriage counselling for this very thing, but not necessarily for that reason.
Low self-esteem. Check.
Self-doubt. Check.
Emotional turmoil. Check.
Isolation. Check.
Walking on eggshells. Check.
Guilt and self blame. Check.
Feeling powerless and controlled. Check.
Detached. Check.
Constant criticism. Check.
Fear and anxiety. Check.
And I feel like we have both become emotional abusers to each other.
Great topic. My mother called me "a goddamned stupid idiot, a godamned worthless bucket of trouble, a godamned brat, a stupid oaf and other unkind names. She hated me. I was the middle child & mother's scapegoat. The 1st 9 yrs of my life was a living hell. From 10 to 18. mother married my biological father because she was pregnant at 18 and unnmarried & thought my dad's family was wealthy. They were farmers & did not want for anything whereas mother grew up on the wrong side of the tracks & her parents wete dirt poor. When I turned 10, she divorced my dad & marrird her boss, who was a rocket scientest. They became millionaires. Stepdad died in
2003. Mommy Dearest is 96 & lives in a nursing home. When my 32 yr old son passed away from an accidental drug overdose in 2012, I think she was jealous of me getting all the
attention & she had no control over my son: funeral. So Mother called me up & from out of nowhere said "when you were born I couldn't love you. I tried and tried but no matter how much I tried, I just couldn't love you. Will you forgive me?" Well she didn't have to tell me that; I never felt any love from her. i look like my father & if i approached her to ask a questions she'd say "NO. GET OUTSIDE".. I had no self esteem & in class I'd dissassociate & inevitab the teacher would call on me to answer a question. Of course I had zoned out and was unable to answer the question. My stepdad molested me (tried feeling my breasts) from age 10 until he died at 73. My maternal grandmother sexually molested me (I cant even repeat what she did to me it was so awful) & when I told Mother what granny did to me, she said, "You're a Liar!"
Mother still calls me "Stupid"
I last saw her 2 yrs ago. She told me "You don't matter to me and you never have. The only kid I cared about is Sharon (my 76 yr old half-sister.) I cried all the way home from CA to AZ, an 8 hourr trip home. I recently received a call from my half-sister & she told me "When Mother dies you will receive $100.00." What a slap in the face.
The sadness and anger i feel is bringing me down. I dont think I will get over the hurt from childhood & certa8nly only getting $100 when Mother has about $1,000,000 in the bank.
The woman should never had 3 kids. My brother hung himself 13 yrs ago when he 2as 55. i am 71 & probably only have 10 yrs left due to coronary artery disease, CHF, Diabeties 2, high blood pressure, high cholesterol. I'm sure my miserable home life has affected my health. I hate my mom and sister. Maybe when they pass away I will forget about them!
I hear a lot of hurt, anger, and resentment. You've been through much loss and yes, your health has suffered. I hope you're getting the help you need, to be emotionally, mentally, and physically healthy.
Your family hasn't been good to you and they are not good for you! However, you cannot keep sipping on a concoction of lemonade made from a bunch of rotten lemons, constantly getting sick from its toxic ingredients, yet hoping the next sip won't make you feel ill. Get away from these miserable, unhealthy family members. You don't owe them anything and they will never give you the love and respect that you deserve. Uncomfortable facts!
Is it possible that a victim of abuse can project their emotions, sadness, anger to others close to them? Do the victims estrange from close family members?
Day in & day out degrading CONDITIONING or programming sarcasm negative words inculcated to the victims. Goodhearted, patience, loving kind hearted persons are the victims. Clean speech. They won't speak profanity or rude words. Victims look like saints. Victims are gentle hearted, mellow, quiet, tearful, NUMB.
NUMB. Emotions 😢😢😢😢😢😢
FOR ANYONE GOIN THREW THIS, HERES SOME ADVICE...
In my experience, I can totally relate, but here's the thing... as you educate yourself and try and go within to listen to your inner voice that intuitive part of yourself..and yes its there don't think its not. I truly believe this is part of our design as women. We mirror our partner's is how we were manipulated, bamboozled and trauma bonded into a 1 sided relationship. If anything you should deem yourself one hell of a catch because he mirrored you back and that's how you fell for him its a manipulation tactic that probably deserves an Oscar unfortunately for his performance in bullshitizm! Don't think he won't get his though.. they ALWAYS do! There karma is a failure to grow, if you can't grow with someone then it's just a bunch of time wasted and sooner or later they will meet their expiration date due to all the growing you do which creates indifferent.. and when you've reached this point you will detach from them. You will see them for what they really are. When this happens you will see that their cruel treatment of you was stemed from what's called blind jealousy which from my experience is why they act the way they do. Their children sadly. Consider the man your having issues with as like a lost boy. A lost boy doesn't have the capacity for emotional intelligence unless they do the work, become aware of cause and effect and deal with their own demons. (Therapy) Narc don't tend to deal with their demons if anything they become what broke them, hence the many masks of bullshit they wear.
to the one reading this.. please try and realize that this is his perception of you not yours. A lot of our thought feeling and emotions about ourselves especially if we've been in a abusive relationship for quite awhile .. those are not your feelings of yourself, It's called projection. When someone unconsciously attributes their thoughts, feelings, or behaviors to another person, they are projecting
So basically what I'm saying is deep down how your feeling from being conditioned (emotionally abused)is how he really feels about himself deep down. He had to break you emotionally because your not in a real relationship. You can't be strong let alone healthy in the eyes of a narcissist. Their's a whole in their love bucket that creates the dynamics of harvesting your goodness to fill their dysfunctional need beast selves! I kinda see it like their getting back at their caregiver threw the maltreatment of you, the emotional whipping girl.
It's bullshit and to anyone reading my comment.. you deserve so much better honey, I can't express this enough! Please muster the strength to leave..risk assessment it's time to go! Your mental health as well as your emune system is on the line!❤❤❤❤❤
Muster one's STRENGTH TO LEAVE . Become independent!!! Think for yourself. Make GOOD HEALTHY CHOICES and change.....move forward look for healthy partners.
Grounded in SANITY of an ADULT!!!!!! Independent STRENGTHS !!!! 😊😅😊😃😊😇👍👍👍👍
Why do the thing in the first place? Sorry is an after thought and for an accident. What these people do is on purpose with the intent to hurt, so saying sorry is ridiculous. Can you please speak to that.
I always thought I have to be there for my kids, but for over 20years I really feel broken from head to toe, I want to out , but , how to start ?
Were I am and did even realize thats what was going on even at my age.the anxiety and stress keeps me depressed and I'm not moving how do I become to flow again I need help moving forward.
“I’m afraid you’re going to find him charming .” No, I’m convinced you’re going to find HER sweet and vulnerable. Especially since you can’t talk about this in any other way than presupposing a male abuser. Let alone ignoring the fact that a man can possibly be changed, but a woman virtually can’t.
Ridiculing & teasing games so as to be COMPETITIVE Behavior. He enjoys being in COMPETITION with everyone especially his LOVE OF HIS LIFE. Significant partner he says " I LOVE U".❤ let's poke fun at each others flaws especially when she is feeling low. Having a bad day physically. She is experiencing a backache, & her teeth hurt 😢😢😢😢. Last thing she deserves poking fun Ridiculing her problems.😢😢😢 She needs a COMFORTING SUPPORTIVE Positive gentle empathic understanding WORDS to COMFORT HER. Offer to take to doctors to help her feel WELL CARED FOR.
With caring LOVING KINDNESS LOVE Actions. Cherish her your SIGNIFICANT PARTNER, FRIEND. 😊😊😊😊😊
SOFT words & gentle hugs.
Emotional turmoil 😢 self-doubt
brilliant idea!! AI handling real human jobs is insanity!! Therapists are irreplaceable!
I experienced every sign of being emotionally abused!
Isolation yes over time to the point his addiction landed him in the hospital and never told my family because i was embarrassed when I exposed him. He became enraged!!!!
Only stupid people see the "charm". Unfortunately, I was fooled by him in the beginning...stupid me.
Forgive yourself….when you know better, you do better, Maya Angelou ♥️…..it took me awhile to get to the other side
Interesting insights
Confusion
Thank you!
What about parent child relationship
Troubled & CAREWORN
I agree u need to leave to heal
I brought a concern to him and he got angry and walked out of the room. I just wanted a little more affection and he refused to even listen.
It's usually complicated with compounding issues and compounding sin including varying levels of frustration , retaliation, and coping mechanisms.... sometimes from outside the relationship. I'm guessing (from a Christian man's perspective) that his refusal to listen was related to other issues that have been bottled up (very common). If not, then my next guess would be he was offended by something you said or the way you said it (men will likely withdraw if they feel disrespected). It could be none of the above. It could be something petty and silly or something serious and deep. You have to find a way to get him to open up and communicate. If he doesn't feel safe making himself vulnerable with you, then it will take more work on your part to coax it out of him. If he makes himself vulnerable and you attack him (if he feels attacked) then he may withdraw for an even longer period. Men are not as emotionally strong as women. The exterior may be tough but there is a soft underbelly that men are very protective of. They will put up walls, but you can win him over.
Yep I’ve dealt with that before… but I get told it’s just my imagination I’m not getting enough.
It’s hard, because I’m nervous to talk to him about it because he spends most of his time on his computer when he’s home…
I used to justify his behavior not even two years ago, but I started doing some major healing and it’s opened my eyes anyways I never thought.
I went to get healing, because I truly believed by him that I was the problem and I want to get help
Yes very badly and deeply electronically over people I have loved and prolly still love.
Thank you❤
I might change the term "unscapegoating" to "DEscapegoating"... Kind of like deglazing or deescalating.
Sooo how do I get an apt w you guys and my husband because - help
I always justifying my mother's behavior because I think she not have bad intentions.
When I feel bad and crying then she gaslighting me and others about the reasons... she never accepting that is her fault and I think did she really can't understand and she think something else? Or she pretending that she can't understand because she want always seems right even when she wrong.
Well better say...did she being paranoid at the moment or she manipulating!
I mean if she really mean whatever she saying or she just saying but don't mean it.
Hard to find out...
She often blackmailing me abusing me and much more...she makes me at the moment do whatever she want or just sit down and shut up.
Worth to mention I'm 29 years old.
I will delete this comment later because she is already aware that I often complaining about her, I don't want she understand that I complained about her one more time.
My mom hate my father and maybe she unconsciously taking revenge from him through me by abusing me so many times she told me that I need to change my genes....even sometimes she saying my facial expression is not good...
Often she abusing me when I crying or I complaining about something.
I can't even cook whenever I want and whatever I want, already long time I didn't cook lentils because she saying me it takes long time I should not waste time but when she cooking something simple it takes around two hours even when she boiling potatoes because everything she washing for so many times and mostly whatever she doing takes long time, often she makes others to wait but she don't like when me or someone makes her to wait, often she stopping me to do something but she always have justification, doesn't matter how many things I doing during day often seems not enough for her.
Recently she cooked lentils after of few month's.
Years ago i used this situation to detect some people which like to take advantage of others, some people had told me to not show my vulnerabilities so it's difficult to not complain, in life everything have good and bad sides, the good side of the vulnerabilities is that giving me the chance to detect so many things like why and how some people using different type of manipulative methods in a purpose to take advantage of someone's vulnerable situation for their own benefit, sometimes they can try to manipulate others and confuse them about the exact person because the person didn't did whatever they was want...
Some people can intentionally sent malware to the device's and pretend it happen accidentally.
Some people want to be "one step" forward in a purpose to know if they can continue their previous manipulative scheme or they need to make a new...
Year's ago happened few incidents me and some other's let them to think that they are "one step" forward by this way we detected so many things including someone who is sociopath.
According to my opinion in some cases need to make the manipulation immediately fail, but sometimes need to wait little bit to makes them think thay they are forward in a purpose that they wont change the scheme.
I think its fair to detect because it is so much unfair when some people taking advantage of vulnerable people.
Some people intentionally can disturb and distract someone and not let to complete whatever doing at the moment, behind it can have different intentions for example may they already "created" manipulative scheme and they need to make their lies seems true thats why when they know the exact person or person's gonna make the manipulation to fail then they can try to prevent it.
Of course sometimes can happen accidentally but if keep happening often then means....
My mom often during day disturbing me distracting me because she think I should every moment be ready to help her in something but about others I can say they not doing it for the same reason.
My mom know psychology so well and I wonder why she let some others to take advantage of her and me? I prefer to think she was want to proof me that they are manipulative...
Of course I know so many good people that they never will take advantage of others vulnerabilities.
I doing so many things during day I think I have the right to take rest or to take care of my basic needs whenever I need and not whenever she saying me.
When her mood is good then she behaving so nice and kind with me she saying me sweet words...
she did and doing so many good things for me.
My father years ago had told me that she was after him and decided to make a deal with him to have a child but my mother had told me that he was after her and often he was "disturbing" her and then tried to left a good opinion...I don't think so she raped him😅 he cheated his wife with my mother.
In 2017 we had issues when his wife was aware that her husband start to talk with us again since end of 2015
My mother's ex husband cheated her with other women's that happened before she meet with my father.
Some people intentionally tried to provoke me in a purpose to use my reaction against me, they was aware of the situation and they did it because they was need to make the situation more worst in a purpose to get benefit of it.
When someone don't know about what's going on then ok I won't feel that much bad but if the person is well aware and keep trying to do everything in a purpose to make the situation more difficult then it's more worst.
Can this even start off with molesting that happened to me many several times as a young gal.
31:47 Mountains can be taken down by erosion. That kind of erosion isn't deliberately and maliciously done, by playing God.
Imo these people enjoy playing God.
❤
They insist & persistent to get ATTENTION/ADMIRATION for his physical fine LOOKS & HIS FAST Flashy CARS . See ME! Adore admire me!!! He says. She says " your not so great. ( she's going to suffer his rude words that cut deep. 😢😢😢😢😮
He is charming around all women until he gets them hooked. He is like Dracula.
Chat GPT is concerning...ask it anything about Jesus and it's wrong. Not really a great idea to use it, in my opinion...