I was hoping to use your instructions to install a new pump to my system. My water tank has an outlet for hot water and an inlet for cold water (which I suspect is coming from mains) - I don't have any pipe coming into the drain outlet at the bottom. Most of the pump manufacturers manuals suggest putting the pump at the hot water outlet and using a bypass valve under some sink. Can you please comment on how your setup differs from that?
Ramona is the name of the town ! And she has several Plumbers, she's a bit loose... but common question. I have been askes, "but what's your company name" when calling a supply house and I say, I'm Ramona's Plumber....
@@gregchick3311 haha Thanks for the reply!! I'm guessing Ramona has a few electricians sitting in the wings too! I came on here b/c my recirc pump died. Found your video really incredibly helpful. I had a Laing unit. You like them ok, or should I seek another unit that is perhaps better?
Thank you for the video, it was very informative. I have a question. The recirculation pump brings water back into the tank through the pipe that was designed for the purpose of draining the tank. The T fitting installed allows for the bib to drain the tank and for the pump to inject water back into the tank. The pump is "fighting gravity" by forcing water into the tank from the bottom, right? I realize that there are only so many ways to skin this cat, and this may be the only way to do it per various building codes. I take it you cannot connect the recirculation pump so that it pumps water into the tank using the the top inlet valve? In other words, have a Y fitting of some type at the water inlet/input so that we use gravity in our favor and put less stress on the pump. Would appreciate your thoughts on this, and again, thank you for the informative video.
No worries, pumps push or pull water, circulators are a bit different, being it is a closed loop, the ceiling hight is the issue hight, not the tank. Circulators do not fight the tank. The cold inlet at top of tank, inside go to the bottom anyway.
Not to familiar with the dedicated return line? I installed a grundfos on the hot line,and tee at the furthest fixture. When and why is there a return line? Thanks, and great video!
You may have an issue with velocity wear on metal piping (copper) depending on the speed of your pump, the return pipe is only for recirculating "tempered" water back to the heater your hot water supply lines should be sized properly for the demand of the fixture they serve.
A return line is for circulating the hot water from the furthest fixture back to the water heater separate from the cold line avoiding warmed up cold water. It is called a 3 pipe system instead of a 2 pipe system. The pump usually goes at the water heater pulling back from the distant end.
Good video. I have a Grundfos Comfort series pump that does not need the extra feed line, but has never been installed and was stored for a couple of years. Do you know of a method to test the pump to check if it's seized and a method to preserve the pump so it stays functional for future use?
I see that the water heater is strapped to the wall. Must be a California install. Also, the ease of which he installed the new pump he made it look easy.
There's a problem with installing the pump at the water heater: The heat from the pipe at the water heater side causes the thermister to trip long before the hot water piping in the house is fully heated up. This happens on the Laing models. I did not see an insulating nipple in this install. How is this problem overcome?
how do you purge air from the re-circ line? is it not a good idea to install a hose bib between the wall and the pump? air pockets are common when re-circ lines are drained down. also, a check valve between the tank and pump will prevent sediment from clogging the pump.
I bought this water heater ruclips.net/user/postUgkx8G49mV71sAzUl9shXyLW-r3XgHH9EVh1 for use in my bus conversion. I installed it under my kitchen sink and it is fed by a high efficiency on-demand LP water heater. It is both a backup hot water source as well as a water saving device since we have hot water on demand rather than having to wait for the gas on demand water heater to finish its ignition cycle. I decided on this water heater due to the fact that it only draws 1300watts when it's ON instead of the 1500 watts that most Water heaters this size draw. In an RV a couple hundred watts can be a big deal. With very low standby losses, I don't have to worry about excessive power consumption. When propane is not available for our gas water heater, in conjunction with our low flow shower head there is enough hot water available to shower, albeit we won't be taking "hotel showers." Also very happy with the recovery rate of this water heater. Granted, it is quite small, but it does exactly what we need it to do.
Very nicely done! I learned a lot, I am about to do this job with nearly exactly the same setup. As for people nit-picking, my experience is that when someone with years of experience and the well earned self confidence lays down such a professional video with workmanship that is so good ... people feel threatened and perhaps inferior and without even knowing this they pick at little things so they can feel smart. How about that for plumbing psychology!
Thank you, I have actually gotten better at staying clean and keeping my cool on jobs. But then again I don't do drains....and use a jump suit to do crawl spaces, and have no hair to get messed up. I have experienced customers liking a more professional touch.
Grundfos and bell & gossett are alike in specs. go to Grundfoss site and see the crossover chart or just size any brand you want. Yes any brand works, the need is to have the required head pressure to over come elevation loss and pipe and fitting loss. Too fast water flow is very bad on pipes...4 ft. per second is max. 2.5 ft. per sec. optimum..
Thank you so much for the video. Rookie here, I have a Laing LHB08100086 E1-BCTNRN1W-06 that I would like to replace with Watts 0955800. Do you foresee any problems with this? Thank you so much for your help.
Different pipe layouts need different solutions. Applied engineering is not dummy down level. Some tasks need evaluation and are not plug n play. Lesser of two evils is always fighting ROI. I think residential buildings need commissioning. The market is not quite there yet.
+Walter Foley - I got the unions at supplyhouse.com, they have everything you need, free shipping over a certain amount, and prices comparable to Amazon. Great customer service. The unions come in 1/2" or 3/4" NPT. I used 1/2" because I have 1/2" copper pipe on one end, and used a 3/4" to 1/2" brass reducer on the other to mate with the fitting out of the water heater.
You guys, the new recirculating pumps have automatic learning features where you don't have the set the old fashion pin timer. It just learns when you use hot water, over a period of a week or so, then self-programs to pump the water int he future. This saves a ton of energy and water. This unit here, which he has, is old fashioned. Not saying it won't work. It will. But the pin timers are out of date technology. Look at the Taco Smart Plug, and the Grundfos 10-16 auto adapt models, instead of this old jalopy.
Taco is great! Grundfos is great!, I do not represent any pump company, I do not criticize any pump company or suggest replacing a Taco or a Grundfos with the other. I do like the Demand pump company, but they have used Taco and Grundfos, so what is your point? do you prefer one over the other? Great, most every product has strong points and some people have needs for those points. I do prefer made in USA, I as well suggest sizing any pump as per mfgr. specs.
If you mean the Copper water heater connector flex, that pump moves water at a slow velocity, this is a 3/4" dia. connector and this pump has likely 1ft. per second or less velocity in that diameter. The flex is listed for hot water heater connector, and they do get pin holes, any experienced plumber knows that. However, that is on top supplying the whole house flows that can exceed 5 to 10 feet per sec. or 24/7 circulation, that is where the erosion from water velocity comes from. To your point, many plumbers use the non braided solid flex corrugated stainless steel connectors that are same as the copper one, but stainless steel. That house had very low pressure, and water treatment, no problems will likely come in that installation. I do get your comment, I even agree in many conditions your point is spot on.
Had it been a Taco pump to begin with you'd only had to remove 4 screws to swapout the impellar cartridge with a new one and in less time than it took to watch this movie.
Taco is old got one of those, there crap compared to grundfos pumps. Sorry mere fact, why you think you can replace it in such a manner. Unreliable (subjective), certainly for high demand systems..
What's the diff with naming that the fittings are made in the usa when the pump is made elsewhere and probably much of the items in the making of that house, probably built my foreigners!!
you don't need to put tape on a line that has a gasket and you only need 3 wraps around a thread not 10. if you are gonna use tape get the good stuff and that's blue monster. that white crap is OK though.
Well he did it wrong, he used black gas line nipple which is a big no no. And galvanized tee. But people like him keep me in business. Because it will cost customer triple for me to fix it right.
My good friend has an existing Grundfos pump which has gone bad. I thank you for uploading this video.
How do you know if the pump has gone bad?
I was hoping to use your instructions to install a new pump to my system. My water tank has an outlet for hot water and an inlet for cold water (which I suspect is coming from mains) - I don't have any pipe coming into the drain outlet at the bottom. Most of the pump manufacturers manuals suggest putting the pump at the hot water outlet and using a bypass valve under some sink. Can you please comment on how your setup differs from that?
I found this very helpful, thank you. Question - who is Ramona, and why does she have her own plumber?
Ramona is the name of the town ! And she has several Plumbers, she's a bit loose... but common question. I have been askes, "but what's your company name" when calling a supply house and I say, I'm Ramona's Plumber....
@@gregchick3311 haha Thanks for the reply!! I'm guessing Ramona has a few electricians sitting in the wings too! I came on here b/c my recirc pump died. Found your video really incredibly helpful. I had a Laing unit. You like them ok, or should I seek another unit that is perhaps better?
Thank you for the video, it was very informative. I have a question. The recirculation pump brings water back into the tank through the pipe that was designed for the purpose of draining the tank. The T fitting installed allows for the bib to drain the tank and for the pump to inject water back into the tank. The pump is "fighting gravity" by forcing water into the tank from the bottom, right? I realize that there are only so many ways to skin this cat, and this may be the only way to do it per various building codes. I take it you cannot connect the recirculation pump so that it pumps water into the tank using the the top inlet valve? In other words, have a Y fitting of some type at the water inlet/input so that we use gravity in our favor and put less stress on the pump. Would appreciate your thoughts on this, and again, thank you for the informative video.
No worries, pumps push or pull water, circulators are a bit different, being it is a closed loop, the ceiling hight is the issue hight, not the tank. Circulators do not fight the tank. The cold inlet at top of tank, inside go to the bottom anyway.
Not to familiar with the dedicated return line? I installed a grundfos on the hot line,and tee at the furthest fixture.
When and why is there a return line?
Thanks, and great video!
So can you use 1/2 inch copper for the recirculation line back to the Hot water heater when you use 3/4 supply lines to and out of the water heater?
You may have an issue with velocity wear on metal piping (copper) depending on the speed of your pump, the return pipe is only for recirculating "tempered" water back to the heater your hot water supply lines should be sized properly for the demand of the fixture they serve.
You sure dress nice for a plumber! Great tools, excellent tutorial. Ramona is lucky to have a plumber like you.
WHY IS IT YOU DID GET RID OF THE SHUT OFF BALL VALVE OF THE CIRCULATING LINE?
A return line is for circulating the hot water from the furthest fixture back to the water heater separate from the cold line avoiding warmed up cold water. It is called a 3 pipe system instead of a 2 pipe system. The pump usually goes at the water heater pulling back from the distant end.
Great video. Do you have one for replacing a Bell and Gossett?
Good video. I have a Grundfos Comfort series pump that does not need the extra feed line, but has never been installed and was stored for a couple of years. Do you know of a method to test the pump to check if it's seized and a method to preserve the pump so it stays functional for future use?
True, but how many Taco circs out there? I used 007 & 009 back in the 80's ! I am well aware of them.
I have this recirculating system, except without a pump. It works well with instant hot water. What am I missing about needing a pump?
I see that the water heater is strapped to the wall. Must be a California install. Also, the ease of which he installed the new pump he made it look easy.
The gas bill will be higher now? Since the water will always be hot?
There's a problem with installing the pump at the water heater: The heat from the pipe at the water heater side causes the thermister to trip long before the hot water piping in the house is fully heated up. This happens on the Laing models. I did not see an insulating nipple in this install. How is this problem overcome?
The re circ line is required to be insulated...inside wall it is. thru the attic as well.. This one is.
how do you purge air from the re-circ line? is it not a good idea to install a hose bib between the wall and the pump? air pockets are common when re-circ lines are drained down. also, a check valve between the tank and pump will prevent sediment from clogging the pump.
how do you prime a pump if you lose hot water
I bought this water heater ruclips.net/user/postUgkx8G49mV71sAzUl9shXyLW-r3XgHH9EVh1 for use in my bus conversion. I installed it under my kitchen sink and it is fed by a high efficiency on-demand LP water heater. It is both a backup hot water source as well as a water saving device since we have hot water on demand rather than having to wait for the gas on demand water heater to finish its ignition cycle. I decided on this water heater due to the fact that it only draws 1300watts when it's ON instead of the 1500 watts that most Water heaters this size draw. In an RV a couple hundred watts can be a big deal. With very low standby losses, I don't have to worry about excessive power consumption. When propane is not available for our gas water heater, in conjunction with our low flow shower head there is enough hot water available to shower, albeit we won't be taking "hotel showers." Also very happy with the recovery rate of this water heater. Granted, it is quite small, but it does exactly what we need it to do.
I know this is old but do you have a model number of this pump?
Very nicely done! I learned a lot, I am about to do this job with nearly exactly the same setup. As for people nit-picking, my experience is that when someone with years of experience and the well earned self confidence lays down such a professional video with workmanship that is so good ... people feel threatened and perhaps inferior and without even knowing this they pick at little things so they can feel smart. How about that for plumbing psychology!
How do I know when its time to replace my water pump?
What make and model is it? if its a Grundfos it will likely last 20 yrs. Often they squeal when they go out or just stop circulating
Got hot water now?
Where's the recirculating fixture on the inside of the home?
Thank you, I have actually gotten better at staying clean and keeping my cool on jobs. But then again I don't do drains....and use a jump suit to do crawl spaces, and have no hair to get messed up. I have experienced customers liking a more professional touch.
Grundfos and bell & gossett are alike in specs. go to Grundfoss site and see the crossover chart or just size any brand you want. Yes any brand works, the need is to have the required head pressure to over come elevation loss and pipe and fitting loss. Too fast water flow is very bad on pipes...4 ft. per second is max. 2.5 ft. per sec. optimum..
Thank you so much for the video. Rookie here, I have a Laing LHB08100086 E1-BCTNRN1W-06 that I would like to replace with Watts 0955800. Do you foresee any problems with this? Thank you so much for your help.
I'm a 26 y.o. gal in California and you are more hero! I love this!
Different pipe layouts need different solutions. Applied engineering is not dummy down level. Some tasks need evaluation and are not plug n play. Lesser of two evils is always fighting ROI. I think residential buildings need commissioning. The market is not quite there yet.
Have been unable to find the unions that you show in the video. otherwise very informative
+Walter Foley - I got the unions at supplyhouse.com, they have everything you need, free shipping over a certain amount, and prices comparable to Amazon. Great customer service. The unions come in 1/2" or 3/4" NPT. I used 1/2" because I have 1/2" copper pipe on one end, and used a 3/4" to 1/2" brass reducer on the other to mate with the fitting out of the water heater.
Hope all is obvious and easy. Use a replacement with a thermostat in it Grundfos makes one.
forgot to say to open the water faucet to let air in as the tank gets full of water again
You guys, the new recirculating pumps have automatic learning features where you don't have the set the old fashion pin timer. It just learns when you use hot water, over a period of a week or so, then self-programs to pump the water int he future. This saves a ton of energy and water. This unit here, which he has, is old fashioned. Not saying it won't work. It will. But the pin timers are out of date technology. Look at the Taco Smart Plug, and the Grundfos 10-16 auto adapt models, instead of this old jalopy.
Who says the rest of the pipe is not insulated? It is..
Taco is great! Grundfos is great!, I do not represent any pump company, I do not criticize any pump company or suggest replacing a Taco or a Grundfos with the other. I do like the Demand pump company, but they have used Taco and Grundfos, so what is your point? do you prefer one over the other? Great, most every product has strong points and some people have needs for those points. I do prefer made in USA, I as well suggest sizing any pump as per mfgr. specs.
Great video! The same idea I have.
them so call shut off valves never work!
GOD, WHY DO PEOPLE NIT-PIC EVERYTHING OTHER PEOPLE DO. I FOUND THIS TO BE QUITE INFORMATIVE
Yikes, all looked good until the use of that thin wall flex on a circ line.
If you mean the Copper water heater connector flex, that pump moves water at a slow velocity, this is a 3/4" dia. connector and this pump has likely 1ft. per second or less velocity in that diameter. The flex is listed for hot water heater connector, and they do get pin holes, any experienced plumber knows that. However, that is on top supplying the whole house flows that can exceed 5 to 10 feet per sec. or 24/7 circulation, that is where the erosion from water velocity comes from. To your point, many plumbers use the non braided solid flex corrugated stainless steel connectors that are same as the copper one, but stainless steel. That house had very low pressure, and water treatment, no problems will likely come in that installation. I do get your comment, I even agree in many conditions your point is spot on.
Had it been a Taco pump to begin with you'd only had to remove 4 screws to swapout the impellar cartridge with a new one and in less time than it took to watch this movie.
Good pix.
informative, thank you...
Awesome ... thanks
Taco is old got one of those, there crap compared to grundfos pumps. Sorry mere fact, why you think you can replace it in such a manner.
Unreliable (subjective), certainly for high demand systems..
What's the diff with naming that the fittings are made in the usa when the pump is made elsewhere and probably much of the items in the making of that house, probably built my foreigners!!
Cut the music
you don't need to put tape on a line that has a gasket and you only need 3 wraps around a thread not 10. if you are gonna use tape get the good stuff and that's blue monster. that white crap is OK though.
Well he did it wrong, he used black gas line nipple which is a big no no. And galvanized tee. But people like him keep me in business. Because it will cost customer triple for me to fix it right.
He said red brass