Customer Won’t Pay Me
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- Опубликовано: 12 фев 2021
- So after completing an EICR recently for my local estate agents the landlord has decided not to pay me that I was apparently "trying to rob him"
Anyway see yourself in the video and give it a good watch all the way through, then give me your opinion 
Хобби
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Love the thumbnail
Had it a few times with CCTV instals.
Then, as I have remote access, their system “mysteriously “ stops working.
Karma, Nick.
You will always come out on top.
It's good to see someone with professional integrity.
I'm a landlord - not many properties - but there are families living in these houses - their home - some with children that we've seen grow from toddlers to teens. It's important to me that they are kept safe. I always impress on the tenants that these are their homes and if there are any problems then to let me know asap.
I have an electrician and a gas safe engineer that I always use. They respond quickly and are fair / reasonable with their costs. I'm equally as quick paying them. Not all LL are like this. Stick to your guns - let this one go and learn from it - as I'm sure you have!
Keep up the good work!
Report the landlord to the local council for renting out an unsafe property
Agreed.
I'd say that this is the main issue here, and the danger to the tenants should be addressed immediately. The landlord and his agent have been formally notified that the dwelling is unsafe, and yet they have allowed tenants to move in. They are both in breach of the Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020.
There is a chance this could have been sorted correctly
I agree Council are right on point for closing down bad landlords these days that's why all residential tenancy properties require an EICR by April
@@westinthewest The tenant only has to say she got a shock and it will be $$$$$max$$$$$ .... Nick should team up with the tenant !
We never send out certificates until the invoice has been paid.
Customers are made aware of this before hand. If they want to play silly buggers and argue the invoice they don’t get a cert or paperwork.
Fair play
In this case would you not talk to them about it before even testing or anything, letting them know that the board basically needs changing and bits and bobs need sorting then that tells them that it will be a fail and they are going to be charged anyway. So how would you go about that? Would you even bother testing it after seeing these things?
That's how it works . but we all have clients who aspire to trying to pay very little but want a sterling job .I'm sure you know which particular group I I mean
@@gavinbern8443 yes we do know. Dugga dugga bud bud ding ding
@@gavinbern8443 Oh yes indeed. I was once fitting out a bathroom and went in one Saturday morning just to put in a custom fit panel. It was a pain, a tight fit and needed adjusting/trimming. Took me two hours at which point my nerves were beginning to fray.....because the client's brother was sitting on the khazi...for two fu..ing hours watching me !!! Please, can you just fit this as well whilst you're here....etc
Send him a letter before action the small claims court, he’ll pay before it gets there. He’s just calling your bluff and winning at the moment
notice he never replys to any thing said
@@johntetlow6943 it’s called head in the sand and hope for the best
I'd submit to the small claims court, purely on principle. If the agents and customer see you slide on getting paid, you'll never see the end of it. Pursuing the matter looks more professional and shows your work was completely honest. As soon as the non-paying customer (con-man) sees the claim, he'll pay up. It'll never reach court.
Also to make my position clear the claim would be against the letting agent, he instructed your services so your contract is with him, their problem if the landlord doesn’t pay them
@@davidolear business is more complicated than that, right or wrong the letting agent is feeding him a lot of work and sometimes it's better to take a small hit and move on. Would be different if materials were involved though.
The estate agent appointed you, he should pay for the report.
exactly this!
Exactly the same thing I was thinking..
Shouldn't matter (to you) if the guy doesn't want to pay the estate agent, but the estate agent contracted you for a job, you did the job, they are contracted to pay you.
They hired you so they should pay you end , I don’t know if it’s the same with you but 90% of the estate agents and managing companies I use all charge a 10% fee for themselves on every job you do.
I sub-contract in a totally different field and annoyingly it never works like this. I've had invoices waiting months (6 months in some cases). Got to the point I refused to do any more work until past invoices were cleared, which generally speeds things up.
Totally agree, that the estate agent is the one that should be paying your bill. You now have the problem of do you do much work for this estate agent??. If not, start in the small claims court & dont forget to add the invoice you are owed for & at least one days expenses plus court & legal fees.. I have taken 12 people to court over the years & won every single one with all my expense's being paid. Just give him notice on what your doing. All of this takes 10 minutes if you keep it simple for the courts to understand.
PS: Don't wear the batman hat to court. You will loose.
Send the report to the local housing officer and file a claim.. It’s unbelievable the lengths that some landlords will go to not to pay out but people who potentially put lives at risk because of greed should be stopped and there assets seized.
Some Landlords not all, just take, take, take, invest nothing back into their places and expect to pay trades nothing when things go wrong! F......ing ridiculous!! Karma to him or her!
This is true, at our last house I told the landlord that the consumer unit was screwed to some 2mm plywood panelling that was under the stairs and i told him the plywood and consumer unit was flapping on the wall. He said I should just put some battening to the wall and screw it to that!
In the end i did do it myself. Along the way I found the shower mcb had melted from loose terminal and another couple of terminals were loose.
I know some people might flame me for this but I knew it was a lot safer when I finished.
I would go and tell his tenants as they can then refuse to pay the rent as they are in an unsafe property.
you won't get any more work from that estate agent if you do that.
@@edc1569 Would you want any more work from an estate agent that treats you like this?
There is the chance it was rectified correctly, plus what happens if they were to show him a satisfactory report. He will look a tit.
@@acelectricalsecurity Post a QR link to this video through the mail box.
@@cuckingfunt9353 I wouldn't have a clue how to do that, why?
I like the way you have explained the problem. By keeping accurate records/ camera footage you should follow this up at the small claims court. To many hard-working people are being knocked, don't become a soft touch your reputation is your future. Good luck.
Hi Nick, love the videos. I would definitely take the guy to small claims court if the estate agent won't pay you. Also increase your EICR price to the estate agent by £10. You'll get your money back and be more profitable.
Over the past 2 years I've had 3 very unpleasant customers. One of which refused to pay after a rewire. I did eventually get some of the money and I now get all parts/materials paid for in advance. I also (on big jobs) give daily updates with pictures including time arrived and left (tracked by my mileage tracker). Video walk rounds before and after the job showing all marks on carpets ect before i start work. I totally understand how frustrating this situation can be. How angry you get because most of the time you are unable to explain why and how and its not your fault. I still think about the horrible things one particular customer said to me over the phone and email. And these are the customers (initially) you tend to go out of your way for as well. Its when your integrity is questioned, that really hurts!!! Time is a great healer and what i do is try and learn from it and put procedures in place to try and prevent it from happening again. Best of luck.
Well said
Hi mate. I feel your pain. Going through claims court now.
@@gaz99968 Thankfully it didn’t get that far for me. A few legal type letters and an agreement that he didn’t pay the full amount did the trick. I figured some money is better than nothing and I wanted it to end so I could move on. Hope it works out for you. Best of luck. Thanks
To be fair I would refuse to pay if my electrician turned up in a Batman costume 😂
Lol yeah fair point bud 😂
Lol 😂😂
Savage Banter.
Brutal
i'd do the same if my electrician turned up in a tesla
The landlord got a dodgy electrician to give him a moody eicr. You should inform the council who will investigate what remedial work has actually been carried out
Probably the same electrician that did the bodge jobs in the first place if hes even qualified 😂
the landlord did a lot of that work himself I bet
DO NOT let them off your contract is with the estate agents, the landlord instructed the estate agents not you, the estate agent instructed you your contract is with them, I had a similar issue with a customer for the small sum of £80 by the time he had tried every trick in the book not to pay with the increase in costs for court fee's Bailiff fee's and eventually sheriff fee's he had to pay £535, and he still blanks me when I see him in town, the irony is he is a multi millionaire
That's how these s***s get to be millionaires, by not paying the likes of us.
@@PurityVendetta The richer people get the more tightly they hold on to their money.
@@spanishpeaches2930 I'll let you know when I get rich 🤨 But yes, I do know what you mean.
Yes I know the type, wouldn't like to owe him money.
Randomly stumbled across this video. If it’s one thing I’ve learned in the trade it’s, take pictures, save emails, and document everything.
This guy clearly knows what he is talking about and has everything documented... well done 👍
Take him to small claims. He doesn’t deserve to get away with it.
Not worth it for the fees involved to start a case. Might as well get back on the tools and make it back in half a day. I see what you mean. Maybe over a grand would be worth it but time and effort is also wasted for an outcome at court that is not a guaranteed win.
I think I’m correct in saying that when the Party being taken to small claims court loses the case they will have to pay any initial cost made by the claimant in addition to the cost of the claim. I know it isn’t a lot of money and I’d probably not bother but it is the principal and that arrogant landlord needs to be taught a lesson. You say Nick you haven’t lost anything but your time, fuel and admin costs ain’t nothing! Just saying.
@@dashgordon4525 Having a judgement in your favour means nothing. You still won't get your money if the guy knows the system. He'll avoid bailiffs and after 3 visits they give up. Abolutely not worth the bother. There's only one language these people understand...
And that’s what’s wrong with the system. It’s there but it’s to much hassle to use that’s why these scum bags get away with it. I’d report him to the the local authority for sub standard property at the very least.
Ive done the small claims thin several times and had ALWAYS worked out with quick payments. I have also gone the other way as well where I "repossess" materials and labor. Although risky, it can be satisfying.
Legend thanks for the content idea. I had to take a customer to court, only found out he was a solicitor in court. I represented myself and won!
As a landscape gardener myself, I had this a few times on start up(20 years ago)Got my money eventually,,through small claims..Dont let this go..
A fair and competent evaluation, I don’t think the customer ever had any intentions of paying. You live and learn!
Hello!
Definitely take to court, I took one of my window cleaning customers to small claims court over £20, its the principle
If good people don't do anything, then everything is run by evil people.
If the estate agent has authorised the check and and asked for it then it is for them to pay and argue with client .
Hi Nick. Great video as always. I have worked for many years doing IT and printer installations and have twice had customers not pay. I pursued both through the small claims court, the first one had to pay up (after 2 appeals and high court enforcement ceasing their workshop equipment...), the second one went into liquidation before I got them into court. Although I went the legal route, I know that if I removed the emotion, the best thing is to let it go and move on. The time and effort I put into "righting the wrong that was done to me" certainly cost me more than the money I was awarded by the court.
You clearly did the right thing on the day of the EICR - there is no way anyone would win an argument trying to prove otherwise, but I strongly advise you to put it behind you. Try not to run things over in your mind, keep the good relationship you have with the estate agent and rest assured you are the good guy here. Anyone who knows you, from watching your videos, is very aware of that! Keep up the great entertainment. Many thanks, Daniel.
Take him to the Small Claims Court regardless of the amount owing. You can do it online. It is easy.
I agree
Absolutely. You've got the evidence of the order. Cheap to apply for the online application. They have no defense, you will get an order. Of course they still may not pay but you can ask the court to enforce it..
Definitely
Who actually contracts you to do the job? - I would have thought the landlord has a contract with the agency. They use the agency to manage the property, the agency therefore has a contract with you. The agency should therefore be paying you, and then invoicing the landlord. If the landlord then contest the task, you provide the agency with all the photographic evidence that confirms you did what was required and to the standard required. If the agency fails to pay you you take the agency to court as they are the party that contracted you. If they can't get payment from the landlord then that's their problem, not yours.
Too right.
@Nick Kirschner But what about the electricians family.. Yeah times are hard, but if work is done then payment should be paid. If all the guys customers refused to pay for whatever reasons it could me debt and hardship for his family...The problem here is it's not stated in the video with whom the contract is with... the client or the agency, which make all the difference when it comes to liability.
@Nick Kirschner Oh I agree, the small claims court can be expensive if you loose. But again, we don't know the full facts here. If his contract was with the agency he may have more luck than if it was with a private individual. Courts should be the last ditch attempt, but sometimes the threat of it is all that is needed. Just hope the electrician resolves this to his satisfaction.
I think the problem is that of possibly losing future work from that agencyt by kicking up a fuss sad as it is :-( Luckily there doesnt seem to be too many idiot customers like this one was..
@@tomjones8715 a part... LOL you need to learn how to type :)
I feel for you Nick. Take this landlord to the cleaners and report them too. You shouldn't have to put up with this.
My landlord is the same. Personally I *know what I'm doing* in terms of electrical wiring, safety etc but I'm not qualified (I repair circuit boards for a living). Our bathroom light wiring caught fire and the landlord wouldn't pay for a rewire, and instead told me if I wanted it doing I needed to do it myself. I did under the agreement he would get an EICR and gas safety check (I also moved the gas piping). 4 years and the checks still haven't been done and the plastering hasn't even been done to sort the chasing out. Now I'm reporting him to the council for it.
These people need to be held accountable!
It’s absolutely shocking landlords can do this you’re a great electrician and a great bloke well done.
I’d feel like going to his house face to face and confront him for calling me a liar 😤 I bet he got an EICR for £60 tested from their van. No work done and someone living in a house with no earths on metal accessories
alot of land lords are foreign and are the worse land lords goin greedy want the bare work done and if you need repairs you be lucky to have it done
EICRs are being bashed out big time at the moment - I know this from experience. I work for a company who give me 4-5 EICRs to carry out in ONE DAY. God knows what my boss prices for them, probably looking at £200 a test/£1000 a day to which he only pays me £110 a day being a 21 year old apprentice....
@@uplightuk8924 Quit.
Find a better boss. I know that's easier said than done, but get your self respect back man! Find a better boss! He's likely to use you as cheap labour for your first two years, then sack you anyway.
Yep, like the budget PAT testers who bung stuff on a basic megger with no visual inspection or leakage tests. Plug in press button, tick or cross, move on. If item plugged into megger isn't suitable for 500v and it blows 'oh, well that was faulty, saved you a fire there...'
I bet they have a better grasp of the English language than you do.
As much as I have distrusted tradesmen in the past I think due to my father working with them (some of them cowboys), you guys do an amazing job and have really shown me that there are people who take pride in their work and are not out there to rip people off. So it really annoys me that someone would not pay you for quality work, hopefully this is an occasional one off. Keep up the good work.
I’ve said it before.. In this country quite along time ago skilled people like electricians and the like were treated with respect.. and quite rightly so.. but then it all changed a certain lady who was prime minister decided that unless you “worked” in an office you were a second class citizen.. Apprenticeships were becoming a thing of the past.. So what you had were chancers and conmen taking advantage of a bad situation.. because after all think about if you want all the people “working” in offices… surely you need skilled people building them???. I do hope one day skilled people will start to be respected again.. and yes I’m a fully qualified electro mechanical engineer so it’s a subject close to my heart.. Let’s get the kids training again in the trades and respect them again….. And bloody pay them when they have done a good job for you!!!!!!!!. Rant over
Your approach to work is excellent and quite thorough. Keep doing what you do and cut them loose. Quality work will ALWAYS win in the long run with better, repeat customers.
Being a carpenter of 5 years I’ve had a few clients knock me. I found a lot of it happens when you use invoices to get payment. I invested in a card machine and stipulated on my quotes that payment was due upon completion before we left the property purely for this reason and haven’t had a client knock me since. He sounds like he never had any intention of paying you to begin with and the fact that the estate agents are backing his case would say to me that they are one contract I’d consider ditching. I’ve done maintenance work for estate agents and they’re awful to deal with.
I’ve been told that a good way of dealing with these types of people is to leave it 6 months, go back late of an evening, find the outside stop tap to the property, switch it off, tip some water down and some post Crete....... will cost them £5,000 to learn an invaluable life lesson 👍🏻
Morning Nick, it's stories like this that make me feel that we need a "Body" where we can have these issues put across and sorted out by them. That way if customers do what has obviously happened her, then the landlord is held accountable and forced to implement the remedial works.
Hi Adam, there is a body. It's known as the government (if you live in the UK) this is where you can use a statutory demand for payment.
I once put a CCTV system in a shop, the customer provided all the hardware, however once the job was complete he didn't pay. So i went back a few weeks later when i knew he wasn't working and cut all the cables both at the duplex end and camera end, i also took sections of the cable away, so good luck sorting that out pal
Great in a commercial setting but he couldn't do that in this house since it will affect the people living there who've done nowt wrong. I'd find out where he lives and tip a tin of gloss over his car.
@@inputimmersion9577 Exactly. I think dealing with this in an unofficial way is unfortunately the only option with these kinds of people.
@@Liamwalrus Tin of gloss all over his house and car would be an absolutely fucking nightmare to sort out. Maybe it would make him think better of trying to rip people off in future.
About 26 years ago I went into my local corner shop and the owner asked me to look at a flashing light in a fridge unit at the back of the store. The tube needed replacing (4' 40W fat tube) and I said I'd sort it the next day.
Next day I replaced the lamp and the starter switch, but replaced it with a 36W slimline tube instead of a fat one. The owner wasn't there, so I said I'd come back.
Three visits later I finally caught up with him. He asked me what I'd done and I told him. He asked how much and I said £3 (basically the price of the lamp). He told me it was too much lol He said something to his son, in his native tongue, and his son shrugged, so I assume he'd asked if I had changed it or not.
He grudgingly opened the till and handed me £3.
In the 100m between the shop and my home, my blood began to boil because he'd doubted my integrity over £3.
I still had the old tube in my van, so I took it back to the shop, walked to the rear of the store, swapped the lamps, went back to the counter, slammed the £3 on the counter and said "You can stuff your £3!" and never went in the shop again.
A valuable lesson was very much learned that day.
Have been a electrical tester for a local authority for 25 years on every property you can think of.. So think how I feel day in day out. If you think that landlords bad go and test a farm you would be well out of pocket. I'm afraid it's money upfront time again before any work takes place. People don't like paying for bad news and think if it works there's nothing wrong. You have my greatest respect in doing your job properly and I wish you good luck.
Its flaming annoying but I've found that the small claims court is a great way to solve the issue. Its just a form and submit your evidence.
And if he challenged it he would have to show another EICR as evidence and what electrician was used.
Yes you don't have to appear, a judgement is made on the evidence provided, but I understand u not wanting the bother for just your labour, just extremely annoying thinking he can get away with breaking his contract and not paying you.
Go for small claims Nick!
It the route I’d go down! But I’d also hold the estate agents liable as they instructed the work though I understand the need to keep the hand that’s feeding you sweet.
i don't know about south of the border but up here in Scotland it's not worth raising court action on anything less than £200 as you can't claim expenses (which includes the cost of raising the court action). for a £140 invoice, it isn't worth it financially. morally though, I agree with you. this guy sounds like the type that gives landlords a bad name.
To be honest as much of a bell end that landlord is, if the Estate agent requested you to carry out the EICR it should be down to them to pay the bill as there your Client. As much as you probably won't want to push it as you get lots of work off them, they still should of or at least offered to pay you.
You've still provided a service and should be paid its not your fault your clients client didn't like the outcome.
i worked for 3 estate agents electrical contracting. anything under 100 pounds and was just aproved by the agents to go ahead . anything over the landlord was informed and gave the ok for the job .the money was deducted from the rent and the landlord received the rest every month
I been there. I remember one time, I installed a high end security system in customers home with cameras and alarm system which he refused to pay. Then, he told Los angels police that i was trespassing his property. He had several pit pulls in the house, so, i took a lose.. I didn’t write a contracts, I had no documentation or agreement. Get it all in writing. Second job. I was paid for equipment and had security system all work but final payment never came.. I saw him as a friend. Well, I learned my lesson. Get everything in writing and agreement.
I am in Downey California , we finally have some cold its 40 degrees. I know for you guys this is short day, we wear our coats 🧥 and dying…. I plan to visit Europe one day, hope to see you … Downey California
I avoid EICR's like the plague. To do them PROPERLY it takes the best part of a day with the paperwork then some idiot will come in cheap as chips and does 2-3 in a day. Landlord is happy as he has the certificate and makes you look expensive for doing a proper job.
I’m not an electrician but have been told an EICR can be done for my rented 2 bed apartment built 2003 that has one mains ring circuit and one kitchen ring circuit, 4 metal light fittings and 3 rooms with gu10 down lights, electric boiler on economy 10, electric oven-hob in 90mins. Is this realistic to do it properly? They have never seen my property before or even have this info above.
@@hks-lion it depends how in depth you want the electrician to go, it also depends how many points are in each circuit and how many circuits there are. It doesn't take long to do a few tests in the consumer unit anand drop a few accessories off to test the corresponding circuits. Regarding the downlights most of the time only one or two will be dropped to check behind because if they have been installed correctly you can tell straight away and it'll be taken as its safe to assume the rest of them have been installed properly as well (unless you request that all of them be dropped and checked) and with the cooker, personally I only test to the cooker switch, but then I'll prove the cooker is earthed using what's called a wander lead (which I also use to prove all metal accessories and large appliances have eaths to them as well).
So in short, yes a test can be done in an hour and a half, it just comes down to how in depth you want the test doing.
@@dannyroberts8822 thanks for the reply. I would like it to be in depth enough to reasonably sure everything is safe and no risk of electrocution or fire. What’s the best way as a non-electrician to indicate it’s been done reasonably? Ask what the r1/r2 and Ze values are?
@@hks-lion it will state on the certificate all the R1+R2 values, unfortunately it's one of them things where you will have to take the electricians word that he's done it properly (unless you check the results yourself)
@@hks-lion in all honesty I don't think you could do anything meaningful in 90 minutes, people might disagree with me but I don't see how you could do dead tests and inspections and then live tests as well. I also bet his report would list no limitations.
When I do jobs for agency, they deduct the payment from the rent, ( State agent pay me in 30 days). I also always notice, rich people who are always a pain to pay !
Thats how they stay rich .
I’m sure you know other electricians in the area, I’d tell them his name and then ask them not to do electrical work for him after explaining your situation you were put in. That’s really bad that the customer did that.... I’d be fuming as well mate
I don’t do electrical works but do conduct drainage and construction services and have a number of letting agents that use me, over the years I have had a couple of incidents where the the agents have instructed me to attend a property and after not having been paid for more than 30 days found that the landlord disbelieves my services were necessary or is just plain ducking the bill, the agent wants the work done so they can continue to let the property (and earn commission) but do little to nothing to help you get what’s owed. My policy now is to ask the agent if the property is fully managed on the initial request if it is then they will pay the bill from the rent account, if it’s not then I ask that the landlord contacts me directly, meets me on site and pays me on completion, if they will not agree to these terms I don’t do the work and accordingly don’t loose time and money. This is a good way to weed out the bad landlords and if all us trades worked this way then they would have to clean up their act
As a gas engineer, I will not attend a rental property without an agreed ‘work up to’ amount. I’m not wasting my time to go out and diagnose a fault only to be told they’re getting their own engineer.
Fancy seeing you in his comment section haha.
@@CalamityKim1 hi Kim 😛
May you explain ‘work up to’ amount - be great to know :)
@@Rosskitchernew so for instance, a agent will call with a breakdown. They have already agreed with the landlord a work up to amount (eg £150) this will cover the call out and in most cases the part. If the parts and labour is going to be more, the landlord is notified. If they do not want to go ahead, they are still charged the initial call out charge for the work up to amount.
@@Chickenboots1 perfect, thanks :)
In the US you can put a lien on the building. This is a fairly common and effective practice.
Yup my family member did this didn't receive payment so they put a lien and 6 or 7 years later those people sold that house and a payment from no where showed up 😁👍
Yes but that is open to abuse as well.
In the UK it's called a "charging order" but must exceed £5000.00
Just stumbled across your video , I’m not in that industry but I feel your pain.... I applaud you in how well you handle this situation ,I admire people who put pride in their work versus the a**ho*s who did the work in the first place ( and you give them a generous review ) as for the estate agent ... a famous person once said ... a smuck ! Some day the tables will turn 👍
I used to do work for estate agents (3 different ones), all of them used to add on upto 50% on my invoice and pass it onto the landlords. No wonder landlords think they are being robbed. Remember your contract is with the agent if they asked for the work to be done.
Sound like estate agent requested you to do EICR, invoice them again and once paid, blacklist them and never work with that agent again (and landlord of course).
Agree, cut your losses! If the estate agent is a non payer, are you really loosing a good customer? Lose some, filter your customers and keep the best, keep your reputation and in the long run gain more! 😉
Who is the contract with? The estate/letting agent or the landlord? I thought the letting agent had the work done, paid the contactor, then deducted the amount from the tenant's rent that they pass on to the landlord.
Sounds like someone that just wanted the certificate and didn’t want to pay out anything more than the bare minimum, I bet if you revisited nothings been done
What he should have done is used cash flow system. You work for a certain days and the agent should have paid, if not you do not continue with the work, this ensures that your money is safe. I learnt this in school in the old days, an old teacher taught us never complete a big job without this because the customer can say anything and get away with it.
I don't know how it works in England, in Wales the council get the report as well so I doubt he will get away with it
Starting my nvq in electrical, love your vids they are helping me being prepared on what's to come. Please don't stop your vids 😂. Love
Hi Nick. I feel your pain. I’m a bathroom fitter and going through small claims as we speak with a neighbour who I thought was a friend. My invoice was for a £1058. They paid nothing, damaged my 4 day installation and they know the legal system. My advice is anything under £2000 it’s not worth the time and hassle. I’ve had to pay claims track £100, legal advice £600, court fee £300 and I’ll be lucky if I win 50% of my claim.
They are counter suing me for a new cloakroom now at £3000 and tried to ruin my reputation etc.
They are using a barrister and have sued previous employers etc.
My advice is don’t let an invoice go over £2000 or walk away as if a customer knows the court system they will tie you up in knots.
I’ll update you on my result but so far it’s not looking good for me.
Great videos and your a great bloke.
Thank you.
Garry
Any update
Sorry to hear any updates
Yuup it’s shiiite , but just don’t let it get to you , it’s part of the business I’m afraid . Some people just try it on .
The only thing i would say is the way i was taught is that if the DB is installed behind something which requires a tool to access (meter key) then it is a C3 and not a C2, i would be tempted to C2 it as well though since it does require access by the public to read the meters.. its a hard one but you probably did make the right call (This is for the IP rating relating to fingers by the way)
I feel for you mate, been fleeced a few times in the £1000’s. As you said live and learn 👍
Yeah I know. Not much you can do about a bankrupt client. They plan it anyway.
I'm a plumber so u will understand why I don't want yo subscribe but was looking for racking inspiration, which is how I stumbled across u.
Nice to hear good honest work and learn something new and then.
I would say the problem with rust is down to lack of grommets, around the tails sealing those big old holes u mentioned..
Moisture would definitely get in there and the constant cycle of it condensing, sitting on the ceiling and dripping back down etc, not good over time.
Keep up the good work 👍🏾
The guy is a breed of landlords that plays the system. Name and shame. You should have the ability to highlight this rogue to other electricians.
Is it not down to the estate agent to pay you and chase the money from the landlord? The estate agent instructed you to carry out the work. The landlord instructed the estate agent to arrange the EICR.
The estate agent should agree with the landlord about payment for the EICR,I had a property that needed a boiler repair ,I had to agree with the agent that he could sort the plumber out to do job and he paid money out of the rental money
Exactly!! The agent is mugging this guy off 100%
I would go to the house and throw a bucket of water over the external consumer board, that’s probably what the last sparky did when he didn’t get
Paid , that’s why it’s now rusty 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂👍❤️
Like the sentiment but ensure you're wearing rubber boots though 😁
The letting agent engaged your services so he should be fighting your corner. If you are working in partnership with them that's what a partnership is. If you are doing them at a discount rate is the agent not putting a markup on them. Hopefully I am wrong but sounds to me like you are webbed up with a pair of piss takers there. I can understand you being annoyed as your reputation is important and from where I sit your honesty and integrity are beyond reproach as shown with helping the old boy out you don't deserve rubbish like this. CU in an outside meter cupboard be a shame if the main fuse, the tails and th CU went missing one night. Keep up the good work fella👍👍
Then he would be in big trouble breaking entry and damaging property
Not a very bright idea, I hope your not an electrician.
@@johnholkham2420 perhaps they're joking.
I’m a gas engineer in training to become Part P qualified. There seems to be too many landlords who just want a certificate they don’t want to know about any safety concerns you identify. They know they can always get someone else to come and do an “inspection” who won’t find any issues. They get paid, anybody doing a thorough check gets problems like this, frustrating to say the least.
I'm currently battling with an electrical contractor that gave an estimate to wire my kitchen, did the work, and gave the bill for $9,000. His estimate was $3500. He so far has refused to give an itemized bill or any real explanation of the $5500 difference in price. He won't get a dime until we come to an agreement. He of course now thinks I'm being unreasonable.
When I was plumbing, I got fleeced three times. It's a mixed opinion with estate agents - I've had landlords not paying but have also had estate agents not paying or negotiating after the job is done. I've also has a customer not paying and when I chased it, he turned out to be a member of a notorious family. What would you do in this case? Great video Nick, sorry to hear you're £140 down - karma will get him soon.
Deliver a copy of the EICR to the new tenant.
The installation they are living in is not legal. They could quite rightly stop paying rent until the issue is resolved correctly. The landlord has either let them move in without a satisfactory cert or the other “electrician” has signed off (incorrectly) a potentially dangerous installation. This should not be.
Exactly this. Also, forward a copy of the report to the local authority. Your report, photos etc are proof that the landlord has deliberately ignored his obligations. They are gonna love it, and with any luck will go in hard without the grease.
Where this Landlord is concerned, it's not a case of not understanding Nicks report but more a case he just wanted a certificate to carry on renting out his hovel of a property!
As soon as he saw he'd have to pay out extra to actually get things fixed to a standard they should be I bet he almost had a coronary and stamped his little feet whilst steam came out his ears 😄
It's easy enough to stop by the property one dark night and take a quick look inside that cabinet to see if anything has in fact been put right. If not a call to the local council next day would not be out of order. Go on Nick, you know it makes sense... drop the hunt in it.
@@andrewcadby If you read into the Landlords legislation that came into effect last year and drove all these super low ball pathetic excuses for EICR's into being it actually states the local authority (building control) should get a copy of the EICR regardless of satisfactory or unsatisfactory. If Unsatisfactory it gets flagged on the system with a timer and if rectification work isn't carried out and new certs etc submitted within 35 days iirc the landlord and the agent are subject to the fine (upto £30k now from £10k originally down here, possibly nation wide). If someone else were to then sign it off as Satisfactory without any documentation of remedial works carried out they'd also be called into question too.
@@effervescence5664 as far as I can make out, copies of EICRs for private rentals are only provided to the LA when requested by LA, and not routinely 3-(3)(c). www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/312/regulation/3/made
It appears it would be the local housing authority, rather than building control, that deals with it.
If NB passes on the EICR to the LA, it will land his landlord friend in it. He'll have to put everything right, having already paid for 2 EICRS, and will probably have to pay the LA costs too:
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/312/regulation/8/made
* paid for only 1 EICR!
As others have said, (if) you were sub-contracted by the estate/managing agent, it's their responsibility to pay you. Assuming you have a solicitor, have them write the estate/managing agent a letter demanding payment ahead of small claims action (assumes that the work is under the £5K limit for small claims).
I feel your pain. I've been in business for 35 years. There will always be a customer angling in some way. It got to the point, I'd gauge their manner and attitude
ahead of time and pass on the work ( I'd create an escape hatch for myself ). It came from experience of being right most of the time when I'd sense before hand, the red flag of trouble came with the first contact. Also, I've still got the scars of being burned. An old guy in business once assured me- These types will never take your reputation down.
You do good, competent work!
He didn't think you were trying to fleece him, he's just a chance and tried his luck to get out of paying 🤬
He has an electrician that is happy with leaky boards, broken rings, and non-working earths. I bet that guy doesn't charge much
It’s amazing that the agent isn’t looking out for you, any agents I work for I have a good relationship with and they look out for me.
11 years ago I was stitched up for £1700 from the customer for extras then the builder I was subbing to for £650.00 on the same job. My dad died during the job so had to have a fortnight off then they accused me of making the job over-run. The chippie who was their "mate" had 3 weeks off the job and nothing was said and it was him who was holding everything up. They had itemised everything prior to doing the work their reason for not paying was "my dad says its too expensive for the work done". I had a breakdown and not got back full time since. I was registered with the NICEIC and the registration was due in June. I told them I was not working they said I HAD to have their inspection. I told them I had no jobs to inspect...their admin agreed but their management didn't and took me to court for the non-payment for a service I wasn't using and won. Deeper depression and a stroke then downhill from there. Lost my house, my marriage broke up and now the ex is suing me for her share of nothing
Had the same situation and the Customer even threatened to report me to the regulatory body. I said fine do that but I have pictures and the report to back up that the Installation had failed. I told as they were determined not to pay me, I would pursue them through the small claims Court. I got paid within 2 hours of sending the email 😉
Had to watch the video although things are a bit different, mostly terminology, here in Canada. I'm an Electrician/Millwright myself. A couple things struck me; 1) You are well reserved in your demeanor (moreso that I would have been) 2) You are studious to a fault, as a tradesman should be, good onya! 3) I would not have even considered leaving your bill unpaid. I have big hands like Shrek but you...Jeeze those look like a couple of roundmouth spades. Lol. Wouldn't want them coming at me with intent! LOL. Sorry this has happened to you and hope the situation might resolve itself in the future. Cheers Mate!!
The electgrician who signed this off needs to be held accountable as well.
Could have been a diyer
It's a damn shame when a truly technical, competent person doesn't get the recognition they deserve. Working in electronics in the lighting industry you really learn how bad some "competent" installers/electricans can be. :)
Do collect half up front, allow that to cover your expenses and time minimally, then collect on the remainder, might help a lot.
Your contract is with estate agent as they appointed you. The estate agents get a fair chunk of money from the landlord.
I don't think you should let the agent off the hook here. They engaged you on the instruction of their client, so they should pay. Their contract with the landlord allows them to deduct the cost of work from the rent.
For the sake of £50 id file a small claims. You have proof of request for the job, should be paid!
Don't forget you can claim your costs inc your filing fee if you win
Hi Nick, I've retired but had very few non payers in my career as an electrician, most people want to pay before the jobs done.
The worst non payer I had turner out to be a 'traveller' who had built a house. I took over a job that an electrician failed to complete, ( that should have been a clue).
Near completion and I had a feeling all was not well, so asked for payment contribution.
His reply was he wasn't paying till the work was finished, and when I insisted, was told my work was crap and he wasn't paying at all.
He threatened to kill my dog and dig up my drive.
Needless to say I walked away but found he didn't have planning permission so reported it to building control.
Japanese knotweed in the garden looked very nice.
Very frustrating for you. I remember a householder in the 70s. I changed his consumer unit, made good some bonding, an understairs light, wired a new kitchen extension. He then got manweb in to test it all. He rang me, calling me all the names under the sun, incompetent, where did I learn my trade etc. He said the test results listed over 50 faults with my work. When I went down to see it, he had a generic checklist of all the things to check which were all ticked OK. He thought they were actually faults on his installation. He sort of apologised.
You were contracted by the estate agents. Let them take the hit. They requested you!!!!
Yup. His contract is with the agent and not the customer. The agent can't not pay you because they've not been paid.
Completely agree with you David, the LL instructed the EA manage this and they instruct NBE to carry out the EICR not the LL. So I totally agree the EA are the liable party to pay for this and they should then chase the payment up from the LL!
He would probably need to have a word with a solicitor, as the landlord instructed the letting agent, so it's not as clear as you would think
To right the estate agents contracted you not the landlord
it is their issue to pay you of they don't get payed by the property owner that is their issue
Doesn't work like that. Estate agents are crafty they will not put themselves in that contractual position. They work on behalf of the landlord. If they don't want to pay then they won't and you can't get the estate agent to pay as they won't.
Unfortunately it's with the landlord and the estate agents should help to get you paid being though they get you in to do the work.
Send the report to the council and let them check to see if the house has since been retested
I'm an electrician in the US. I've run into this a couple times. Its tough because you have roughly 5 hours into it and you don't know if its worth investing more into it. I've found its usually best to move on and make more money elsewhere. The other thing I've done is raise my prices. Most of the customers I had like this stopped calling once my prices were higher and I've found I get less of these issues.
Let us know how it turns out!
Thanks
The problem about landlords on the most part (not all) is that landlords are tight fisted money grabbing thieves. They bog the arm and leg into people and put rent to unbearable prices and then claim it's for costs and expenses. However, when it comes to actually doing anything for the tenants they get the cheapest and easiest fix possible. That's without a care for the tenants safety or consideration. And ALSO estate agents are just as bad. They hide behind legal legislation and red tape as well! Then if anything happens to the tenant they point fingers at each other and deflect the blame. And poor lads like this get shafted in the process! Not only shafting him out of money but accusing of conning when the real con is THE LANDLORD.
Small claims court is quick and easy and I would drop that estate agent
Look them in the eyes and calmly say..." if you refuse to pay me, it will cost you 5 times the amount in the long run"..😉
As Derek said it would be worth a call to the local authority, they may investigate it they may not.
I have experience as a tenant of being in a property with no RCD's and a Landlady who felt it was the tenant who should pay if I wanted it checked, it takes all sorts. But you are doing the right thing, they will fail before you do!
As a small business owner I feel your pain.. I have customers calling me begging me to fit them in to repair their roof asap and then I have to chance them for weeks for my money.. it's driving me nuts
Small claims court, You've done the work as requested, you've provided the service. So should be paid, the doesn't like what you've told him then its his problem. I think you can fill the forms in online within 10 minutes.
I understand that moving forward would be the cheapest solution for you. I understand peoples comments that it is the estate agents responsibility, but no doubt you get a lot of work from them so rocking the boat may seem unpalatable. I have found that a good reputation will keep you employed for years (I'm now close to retirement) and it has worked for me. But your current and future customers will respect you more for speaking to the estate agents getting them on board and taking this to the small claims. If you don't this will bug you for ever! and why not UTube your claim so that people can see how easy the process is - I would employ you based on your UTube videos, I am sure others will too. Good Luck.
N bundy. A word of advice. Most people in business will tell you knowledge is expensive. You found out just how expensive non payment can be. 1st Go see a Barrister- not solicitor-one who is proficient in non payment of bills. 2nd Write up a contract (with aid of the Barrister) for your customer to sign BEFORE ANY work is proceeded with. 3rd Set up stage payments, never leave any bill till the end. Its Expensive but like I said all knowledge is.
This way you have proof of the customers intent.
Just share the Landlords name with as many people as you can.
Make it hard for him to get a competent tradesman, of ANY trade to work for him in the future.
People like that, are not worth working for, and it WILL come back and bite him on the arse eventually.
As long as you have a clear conscience Nick, you will overcome these cookers.
I’ve been in the CCTV trade for a VERY long time, and reputation ALWAYS wins out.
Just cut your losses, and take every opportunity to tell all your contacts and associates, not to work for the person.
Been there, got the tee shirt, and I have ALWAYS won.
Painful in the short term, but play the long game.
It has worked for me, every time.
Keep up the fantastic work and standards.
I'm still triggered by the fact that the fuseboard is outside 😑.
Straight fail on the location of the consumer unit.no question.
Why a fail? It is acceptable to be in a meter box. It's not a suitable location today but back then it was and you cannot fail it because of that.
@@raver1481 1000's of new builds with consumer units in meter boxes unfortunately. Not saying its good practice but can't see it being a fail unless like this video damage to the meter box.
@Ellis The DJ the comment i was replying to was regards to a board in a meter box not its condition.
Pretty standard here in Australia for the consumer unit to be in the external meter box (including in new builds). Parents have theirs inside, but then their meter box is on a pole 30+ meters from the house.
Surely, if the estate agent requested you to do the work then they would be responsible for payment, or am I missing something?
Estate agents can be crafty in the way they deal with you as a contractor and will get you in on behalf of the landlord. Plus would you want to upset the relationship with the estate agents for 1 job worth a small amount compared to the amount of work you get from them. It isn't worth the loss but should take it as a learning curve and put things in place to prevent from losing out again.
Sadly this also happens across the pond too. I have found that once you do an assessment that you draw up a contract that they have to sign before any work is done that way if they try and say any different you have the legal paperwork to take them to court and put a lien on the property. Sad you found the one who just wants to take you for a ride to save money. That only speaks to his character and I'm sure his renters will also attest he is not a very good landlord too. Hang in there and whatever course you take I'm sure you will do what is best for you and your company.
We had the exact same I'd love to share it was hilarious.
We never issue reports to the landlord/lady they go to the estate agents but our agreements are that they don't get shared until bill has been paid. It is the report they are paying for and its the only certificate you can hold back until you receive payment. We also never disclose too much info until being paid, it makes you vulnerable to not being paid because they aren't happy with the result.
Also a landlord/lady is risking everything they have moving new people in knowing that the property is deemed unsafe.
If there are existing tenants the 28days is reasonable not an excuse to get new in sooner.
You did the report you will get paid. Take that person to small claims you can do it online you won't lose the case.
The evidence provided from your video shows that they are not paying because they are not happy with the result and so is not an excuse not to pay.
There are alot of landlords that don't care they just want it to say satisfactory reports.
This person hasn't shown no care to the family moving into the property, this will go against them in your case.
You have nothing to worry about go for it I would like you said its principle and there will be one less that gets away with it.
Hi Nick,
The estate agent has asked you to carry out an EICR so they are responsible for paying you as they have ordered the work.
Speak to them and you will no doubt swallow it to get continued work, pop another £20 on every job from them to get it back, they will not know.
The Landlord is probably blinded by his own ignorance about electrical work and its a good thing that its only £140, just think if you had done the work, he may have not paid that.
the rust on your MCB'S is more likely an issuse with condensation rather than water ingress
My initial thought was that either the door had been missing for a long period or the door left open for a long period
Well it's not a sealed IP rated outer enclosure, so warm dampair can enter and chill and condense out.. so still not a suitable environment for the CU inside it.
@@paulbritton187 I agree I don't think putting it outside is a good idea at all
Had something similar recently. Told the customer a job would take 5 days and at the end of day 4 she went mental at me saying that all the work looked horrendous....I'd just filled the chases and had planned to do a top coat of skim over them the next day. She refused to let me in on the 5th day and refused to pay anything. Put all over fb about how I've just fleeced her and ruined her property.
The concept of "you can't complain about the finished job if you don't allow me to finish it!" doesn't seem to register with her. Still not been paid because she knows she can get another tradesman in to finish off for less than what I had quoted her. Her excuse for not paying is saying its not good enough.
Nick - if the agent has requested the inspection then the contract (either written or verbal) is between you and the agent. The agent will have a separate contract with any landlord. Invoicing should therefore be to the agent. Do not allow an agent to step back and have you deal with a landlord. If landlords refuse to pay, that’s the agents problem, not yours. In the event that an agent doesn’t pay, be very nice but on the third request indicate that if it is not settled within 14 days then you will initiate a small claims action with Money Claim On Line (MCOL). It’s SO easy. After you have done one, you will be able to process a claim blindfold. By all means respond to any agent queries, but do not get into technical argument. They will need to come up with expert opinion if they decide to defend the claim which they almost certainly will not. You are the professional and you want your money, simple. Do not accept non-payment from anybody that you contract with - ever!
If I was there I'd simply force the customer to pay. I'm built different
Anybody else looking forward to seeing Nick and Adam on Judge Rinder? 😉
Ya dead right mate.
We recently had a similar but smaller issue direct with a customer. He tried to avoid paying an outstanding balance after his purchase was delivered. We gave him benefit of doubt on delivery, he wasnt present, missus said he'll be down in next day or two. I happen to have known him for 15 years, so trusted it would be sorted without issue. 3 months later after a partial payment, we finally got the last £70 out of him where he marched into shop stony faced, said 'here's that 70 I owe you' chucked it on counter and stormed out. It was only 70 but it was principle of the deal and the trust. He now wont get any work done by us or be able to purchase anything else. Its infuriating! I know your anger! 👍 Just remember, You good job! You've got so many respected sparks to back up your competence too.
Can I ask, which camera is in the corner please? Also, what did you do to the scaffold boards for the burnt look?