They should get the same rule that assault intercessors have, reroll wound rolls of 1 and full wound rerolls on either the oath target or an enemy unit on an objective.
@@joheric8886 I mean real talk it's not a bad idea given how the rules change was a massive downgrade to an army that didn't need it. You could be less of an ass.
I especially hate it in orkz. kombi Rokkit or Skorcha nobz used to be a not necessarily great, but at least useable option, but now they've got this... *thing* that won't ever hit anything and takes away their melee weapons. My 5 man of InferNobz is now basically useless.
Agreed, in addition to robbing sternguard of their initial role. If tactical squads are the battleline and devastators the heavy firepower, stern-vets were the special weapons. Like devs, they had a wide array of weapons to choose from, ranging from storm bolters, flamers, grav, plasma, melta and every combi-gun of the above-mentioned types. Additionally, they could bring along 2 heavy weapons in a squad, including the otherwise chapter-exclusive heavy flamers. Now? Special-issue bolter, special-issue heavy bolter, generic profile combi-gun and primaris heavy flamer
I'd love to see Deathwatch Veterans also have their boltguns upgraded to the same profile as the Sternguard Bolt Rifle. All four key-words and -1 AP is a huge improvement, and would make them a legitimate option when compared to their other wargear.
Would honestly be so good for Deathwatch if they did that. Would be nice if they gave seperate weapon profiles for the comi-bolters, but this would be good too.
If they did add the keywords inc Devasting Wounds id want the nerf that removed devastating wound weapons from hellfire rounds removed even if that meant nerfing the anti 2+ to a 4+. With the bolt weapon nerf still in place i dont think it would be broken broken
I appreciate the shout-out to the Librarian as a fun character to run with the Sternguard. That Invul Save is just the thing for giving them some extra durability.
I'm gonna run azrael with them, 4+ invul, his weapon range is the same as theirs for the most part, and sustained hits 1. Def a good alternative to hellblasters. Plus the Sternguard also have 1 more melee attack than Hellblasters so a little more balance to them.
Hey Charles, I just purchased the Deathwing Assault Box and my Leviathan Marines are still on sprue. Should I buy more Stern Guard or wait for the Inner Circle Companions?
@@arn1345 given they kill about 20 points, maybe 30 with oath, and are OC1 and a standard space marine body, which isn't a lot these days, they should be like 75 points tops probably closer to 60.
For some reason sternguard veterans are just like my favorite things. Good or bad, I bought the kit the moment it was available, and field them everytime I play.
Not sure about their in game value since I don't play the table top but the Stern Guard kit is top tier in terms of bits for conversions and stuff. You get like 15 heads 11 sets of arms with weapons and a lot of small trinkets.
Also if you want to get more tabard bodies the Crusader Squads are pretty decent as the SM's can become the Veterans and the Initiates to scouts as the scouts also come with plenty of weapons to make use of those bodies. The only tricky part is the number of both you get don't really jive with x5 man squads the best.
Nah. All other 5-10 man foot based tecticus squads have been sold as a 10 man until these came out. Halfing the value of the box was horrendous for value
Been this way since 7th. Game loses flavour for artificial “balance” where balance is solely based on comeptitive nerd games win rates using the same soup style list. Lore lists balanced list building with lien infantry to capture points in the forced structure and elites feeling like well elites and unique is gone it’s a real shame they fixed a lot of the card game nuking of 9th but removed all the flavour. I don’t know why they don’t just do heresy rules but balance it a bit or limit dreadnought usage.
I ran a unit of 10 Sternguard with 2 HB, in a Stormlance detachment. Using the strat, Blitzing Fusillade & oath, they were able to do enough dev wounds to a Landraider to kill it. They maybe spiked a bit high, but I think they will stay in my list, especially with a point drop.
Ive been testing these guys with Azreal in the new Inncer Circle detachment and i have to say they are my new favorite over Hellblasters. No more unlucky games losing 3+ to bad hazard rolls or opponents shooting them as much as possible because they fear the overcharge. They're just super consistent with Azreal, and that +1 to wound on the vowed target clears stuff well. Their melee does well too with potential access to +1 to wound and wound rerolls. The 70pts saved have net me a second squad of Scouts. The move blocking turn 1 has been a really useful momentum creator in trying to make the new weaker Dark Angels mesh. Overall, the kit is phenomenal to build and paint and now they actually dont feel bad to use!
I'd use sternguards in Anvil Siege force which takes full advantage of the heavy keyword. I'd not be too happy to get them into a melee fight with their T4 Sv3+ W2. They would be positioned to always shoot the Oath of moment target. If they have to move to get their shots, they can use their assault keyword and get extra movement from advance+shoot in those turns. Otherwise they remain stationary and shoot the Oath of Moment target. As long as they get to stay in range and shoot the main target each turn we'll get full value out of them. I'd experiment with Captain Sicarius in the unit. Get out-of-movement phase movement to maximize the number of turns stationary, and dodge charges. Get assualt on all ranged weapons, including pistols and Sternguard Heavy Bolter.
I use sicarius with Sternguard a lot. Stormlance and the double move sicarius is cheesy but allow for great board presence. My last game was 95-45 against votan
I havent played since 4th ed but have been watching alot of your content lately thoroughly enjoying it you go into alot of detail regarding all current content and im really looking at getting back into collecting and playing again
The rule should have been, always re roll wound rolls of 1 and reroll all wounds against the oath of moments target. That way they would be more consistent and fit with their lore, they should also have furry of the first/ I think all veteran units should get that tho.
I made up 10 "Risen and Redeemed" conversions to use as my Sternguard Vets for my Dark Angels. Gave them a variety of horus heresy heads and weapons etc. I have the Horus Heresy Corswain model as a counts-as Librarian to go with them. Very excited to run them again. They were quite fun in the index, got bad, and now seem worth it again.
I've not stopped using them! Love the models so much and their bolters are absolutely powerful. Ran with a Librarian and Fire Discipline out of a Repulsor they get a lot done or force serious investment.
Even for 90pts they feel a little underwhelming, I just hate when the ability of a unit is highly specific for no purpose. Rerolling 1's on just the Oath target, really? And nothing else? Feel like they should just reroll 1's and be a good bolter threat at range and maybe get full rerolls on Oath target. That would be amazing.
If you're putting them into a transport to send them up close, a Chaplain is worth mentioning as a leader too. Disembark from a land raider, blast with rapid fire, then charge in and get +1 to wound on all of those 4 attack close combat weapons, and the Sergeant weapon. Makes them into a very versatile damage dealer.
Just curious, did you factor in that against the termagaunts, Intercessors, and Terminators the combi-weapons do devastating wounds on 4+ with having anti-infantry 4+? Only causing 2 wounds out of 10 shots seems low, imo, needing 4's to hit and wound with no saving throw allowed.
I mean he did ya… technically the average would be 2.5 against those targets, but rounding it to 2 is reasonable. It is really low, they just have such crap number of attacks
I think you should look more closely at Deathwatch Sternguard, Furor Doctrine and the Tome of Ectoclades and the damage output this brings. Coming in via drop pod.
Idk if you missed this very big detail or maybe you don't know of it. But either way I'm here to help. My biggest problem with Sternguard was they weren't the cream of crop in shooting and they had zero ability to be effective in combat because everyone has Close Combat Weapons except the Sgt. However because Blood Angels Sons of Sanguinous Detachment gives +1 atks and +2 to Strength on the charge. These CCW now become somewhat spicy. 5 Atks, WS3+, S6, AP-0, damage 1. If only there was a way to give them +1 AP. But wait there is the Sanguinary Priest, along with giving them a 5+ FNP. Also when used in conjunction with the Red Rampage (Battle-Tactic) stratagems you also gain Lethal + Lance. Now idk about you but a S6 + Lance should wound like 90% of all infantry models on a 2+. And what is the Sternguard Veterans special ability...? Re-roll Wounds of 1 vs Oath Target. Please tell me that Sternguard Veterans in Blood Angels Army doesn't sound like a spicy combo especially with the Sanguinary Priest. I run a lot of Death Company in my Blood Angels list. Which Death Company are always going to re-roll the Hits of whoever they target. Which now gives the Sternguard Veterans free rain to dictate where the Oath target is going because the rest of the Army doesn't need it.
You could run the MC Bolter Captain with Witchseeker Bolts and 5 Sternguard in BT Righteous Crusaders Detachment. The Captain would get Precision, Dev Wounds, and Anti-Psyker 4+ for weapons without any existing modifiers, at the same engagement ranges as the Sternguard, for a total cost of 180 pts, 40 more than a PCS w/o character support. Could be a nice task force for taking out a commander (or several), or for engaging a variety of threats at range.
Azrael with Sternguard Vets is absolutely insane. They become incredibly tanky with surprisingly large damage output. On top of that, you can also put an Apothecary with them to take an enhancement to beef them up even further. Azrael's profile is just completely insane for his cost, he shreds at range, he shreds in melee, he provides huge benefits to the unit he leads, and he generates 1cp per turn to boot. The fact he isn't like 150 points is wild, he just does too much. I've played him in a few 1000 and 1500 point games, and maybe its just because of the smaller scale, but truly this squad murders everything in their path and can even punch up into bigger things with the dev-wounds, sustained hits 1 for the unit pairs incredibly well with Oath of Moment, it's just all good all around.
For our crusade thus far they have killed a stompa, war dog and knight rampager they . Sustained Hits lethal hits and dev wounds on with rerolls is averaging 15 wounds at 10+ toughness. It's a little silly. If you run them in Gladius Task force 2 stacks of these boys can be run using fire discipline. If you put a captain in the other squad as well both can use the Storm Fire strat to gain an extra ap and ignore cover. Little gratuitous at that point though.
If Guilliman wasn’t so expensive that reroll against oaths on a wound of 1 would be a great combo. Too bad you can get 2 Gladiator tanks for the same cost as him.
Give a unit of 10 of them a lieutenant and a captain in anvil seige force detachment. They gain lethal wounds and can use the battle drill stratigim for free every turn which gives them sustained hits and crits on 5+ every turn they don't move
If in anvil don't forget that no threat to great is a battle tactic as well. Full re-rolls against a vehicle or monster, if in rapid fire range and a point for battle drill recall it can do a surprising amount of dev wounds to the big boys. Not something to depend on but can be an emergency damage boost.
After I build my list (damage dealers, objective monkeys) as at the end looking at what battleline do I want to have? 5 man intercessors or for a little more ya could take these guys. I've liked running these guys in a 5 man unit. The sterngaurd vets trade up often in my experience.
I love the basic intercessors as a 5 men unit for their sticky objective ability. They can get you some points if the enemy is careless and lets them do their thing. Plus as they have assault weapons they can do actions/sexondary missions too Plus powerfist :V
A 10 man unit as Blood Angels with a lieutenant and Sanguinary Priest attached isn't bad. Run it in a Gladius detachment and give the lieutenant Fire Discipline. You get sustained and lethal. The Priest gives them a 5+ FnP and additonal AP in melee. Makes them a decent all around threat. As a bonus, you can throw them across the table with a Librarian Dreadnought for good placement.
I've not stopped using them. Started out with them and librarian but now run them with a lieutenant and Ventris which up the melee punch significantly. I fish for the lethal hits and just treat the dev wounds as a nice to have.
I’m waiting for all lighting claw vanguard marines. My Raven Guard are suffering ( that is our way ) How can you field non listed divergent chapters with the rules we have. Thank you. Blows me away how great and never ending your videos are.
My buddy plays dark angels usually plays Gladius he runs a 10 man sqwad with a captain with the fire discipline Enhancement for sustain hits on top of it and then uses the storm of fire almost every turn they can hit for free with his captain really puts the hurt on alot of my space wolves units with the dev wounds up took out most of a squad of Thunder cav interesting combo at least haha
I have used mine to screen for Infernus marines with vulkan hestan and devastating wounds stratagem, and for bothe home objective holding and skirmishing the side objective.
10 man squad led by Azreal and a lieutenant was absolutely lethal. I broke games played with that. Still good today but lethal with the rerolls from oath before the nerf. Getting 4 up invulnerable, Sustained and lethal hits, heavy and dev wounds. Fall back and shoots. Lethal. It was a good time haha.
I would have preferred a buff to a slight point decrease. A unit having veteran in it's name should show up in the stat lines. As a Marine vet I can tell you that in my experience there are stark differences between a sh#tkicker who has danced a few times and Nick the New Guy who pissed his way thru a firefight or two
I've been running a squad of these or hellblasters in the back of an impulsor, basically there just to buff the vehicle in to a gun platform and jump out on to objectives if needed.
These are my favorite space marine unit/models in the game. Since our codex dropped, anytime I bring them, they just.. die... even with Tiggy attached. They make me sad.
They havent done much for me since the nerf to oath but I still like the models so i use em just underwhelming to only get 2-5 1 damage dev wounds off a 10 man squad with characters and fire discipline used to consistently get 10+ dev wounds
@@joheric8886bro this is like the 8th comment I’ve seen of you badgering people who are voicing their opinions and concerns. You add nothing constructive to the conversation and you make yourself look like a fool by acting this way. I think you need to seek therapy if that’s all you have to add in any online discourse. The whole point of a comment like his (and others you’ve commented rudely on) is to point out the issues at hand. You shutting anyone down like this makes anyone sensible think you’re no fun at the table or nowhere near understanding as a person or otherwise close-minded. Then again this is the internet so maybe I’m expecting too much of someone like you.
I run Vanguard Detachment and they pair perfectly with Uriel Ventris He gives them a nice punch up in melee and adds value to their shooting as well. Not to mention his abilities
@Acorbet86 yep they want space marines to play like eldar, down to its infantry fighting like aspect warriors and using grav vehicles. They are no longer space marines now, just bigger eldar.
I recently tried some of these guys in the firestorm detachment. The bolt rifle already has assault so I thought it would make sense to take the combi-weapons (as they get assault for free from the detachment rule). I'm pretty certain that even if you give the combi-weapons assault for free, the bolt rifle is still just better! What an absolutely nonsense balance of weapons.
Better idea: Match azraels S8 plasma gun with a squad of hellblasters, his +4 invul keeps them alive longer, and put bolter discipline on the sternguard!
lately i use them with pedro in anvil siege if stars align: use pedro ability and give them sushits on 5+ per strat i haven't done the exact math but in most cases they wipe an important infantry squad
I am more tempted to take Sternguard + Apothecary now with points cut when I play Repulsor Executioner just for the sake of objective control, 140 on top of 220 massive firepower doesn't look that bad.
This is not competitive in any way but for the armies my friends have, lots of light infantry skitarii, gaunts and fire warriors, i put an apothecary in each unit. Id take the max 3 if i owned a third. Cheap medic picking up lost guys squeezing every last drop of value from the squad works well for me. Nice cheap squad to occupy buildings or sit on far away objectives while the actual meat of my army brawls elsewhere. Free CP when the units destroyed to for extra value.
Not a coincidence as GW is releasing that heroes of the chapter set. Gotta make those sales and honestly its not a bad deal assume its going to cost the same as the tyranid set at $110. Its pretty much on par with the second hand market for these collectively. May actually see the units drop down $5-10 more once this is released and folks can get here hands on the Lt and Apothocary again. I really want to see more from vets, defintiely the other variants from other chapters but maybe some new type of vets as well
Sick looking models, but never really find place in my lists... for 90pts I'd rather the sticky objective utility of intercessors or the overwatch threat of infernus marines. Rather than drop the point cost I'd rather they give them a better ability, maybe a return to OG oath of moment or hitting on 2+s?
Great insight, certainly gives this unit a focus and may even try it. Would be great to have this done for the heroes unit, 3 wounds each and well pointed makes them likley a bit better than this choice? What do you think?
Fire Discipline doesn't have Lethal hits, or am I missing something? It gives Sustained hits 1. Wouldn't this only be a good thing for the Sternguard and their devastating woulds?
You are correct, just usually people run the enhancement with a lieutenant on other units to give them lethal hits, maximizing the damage output for said unit. It could be run with an apothecary or a different character to not give lethal hits, but maybe feels like a worse combo then hellblasters or aggressors with lethal and sustained I guess.
I love the look of the new sterngaurd but its a shame that their kit is so barebones now.. gonna do my best to model them all with a loadout I'd like to use in a future edition.
So, combi weapon gives +2 for dev (now on 4 up instead of just 6), but you lose a shot and heavy. Honestly, I like them, but I think I like blade guard better. More durable against higher AP, and with a cpt activating his +3 attacks dev wounds ability they kill terminators just as good.
Idk this unit basically seems like it hops out, maybe kills something, then immediately dies to return fire. T4 3+SV and 2 wounds just isn’t great. It is fairly cheap but I don’t think it’s too great IMO.
As a CSM player, every time I see that blasted Armour of Contempt strat I must admit I grind my teeth a bit. Quite why Chaos has to pay twice as much for the exact same strat is beyond me.
My Sternguards with Azrael and an Apothecary managed to take out the Avatar of Khaine with 2 rounds of shooting and 1 round of melee. Lethals and sustained with 40 basic attacks, Azzy, and Sergeant's power fist is p good.
4 guys kill an intercessor, 2.5 termagants or kill half an assault terminator. That's about 20 points of damage from FOUR costing 72 points. Are they strong now? HELL NO!
They are not bad actually. Some kind of intercessors on steroids. They real competitors would be intercessors hahaha, cheaper and sticky objectives. The problem is ... Intercessors are very handy and for 95 I have eradicators for example. They are not bad at all but in the middle of all the others specialized units it is hard to give them a job.
I love these models, I think their aesthetic is amazing and the amount of customizability is awesome, meta and strength be damned.
Same here. They're like Bladeguard but with guns
perfect models to convert into bldeguards)
They should get the same rule that assault intercessors have, reroll wound rolls of 1 and full wound rerolls on either the oath target or an enemy unit on an objective.
Tell us what else you think they should have.
@@joheric8886 either oaths target or on an objective. I'm good with either
@@joheric8886 2 plus invuln
Homie. They already have a fuck ton of abilities. Use leaders to give them more lmfao.
@@joheric8886 I mean real talk it's not a bad idea given how the rules change was a massive downgrade to an army that didn't need it. You could be less of an ass.
I really dislike what GW did to Combi-weapons... 😢
And to thunder hammers...
It's a travesty is what it is
I especially hate it in orkz. kombi Rokkit or Skorcha nobz used to be a not necessarily great, but at least useable option, but now they've got this... *thing* that won't ever hit anything and takes away their melee weapons.
My 5 man of InferNobz is now basically useless.
Agreed, in addition to robbing sternguard of their initial role.
If tactical squads are the battleline and devastators the heavy firepower, stern-vets were the special weapons. Like devs, they had a wide array of weapons to choose from, ranging from storm bolters, flamers, grav, plasma, melta and every combi-gun of the above-mentioned types. Additionally, they could bring along 2 heavy weapons in a squad, including the otherwise chapter-exclusive heavy flamers.
Now? Special-issue bolter, special-issue heavy bolter, generic profile combi-gun and primaris heavy flamer
Preach brothers.
I'd love to see Deathwatch Veterans also have their boltguns upgraded to the same profile as the Sternguard Bolt Rifle. All four key-words and -1 AP is a huge improvement, and would make them a legitimate option when compared to their other wargear.
Would honestly be so good for Deathwatch if they did that. Would be nice if they gave seperate weapon profiles for the comi-bolters, but this would be good too.
If they did add the keywords inc Devasting Wounds id want the nerf that removed devastating wound weapons from hellfire rounds removed even if that meant nerfing the anti 2+ to a 4+. With the bolt weapon nerf still in place i dont think it would be broken broken
I appreciate the shout-out to the Librarian as a fun character to run with the Sternguard. That Invul Save is just the thing for giving them some extra durability.
I'm gonna run azrael with them, 4+ invul, his weapon range is the same as theirs for the most part, and sustained hits 1. Def a good alternative to hellblasters. Plus the Sternguard also have 1 more melee attack than Hellblasters so a little more balance to them.
@DetroitTyler it'll massively nerf them down to being dark angels though 😢
I bought 20 of the multi part sternguard to go with the 10 from leviathan that I had. I run them in my Crimson Fists with Pedro and an apothecary.
They only had 5 in the leviathan box though
Hey Charles, I just purchased the Deathwing Assault Box and my Leviathan Marines are still on sprue. Should I buy more Stern Guard or wait for the Inner Circle Companions?
The Inner Circle models look amazing.
@@Prometheus_Williams I guess it depends on if you want guns or swords.
@Khobai I bought 20 of the new ones when the became available for purchase.
These cool models deserved a boost.
Better rules would certainly go a long way than less points.
@@airraid1266Story of 10e.
Literally everyone: "We would like X underpowered unit to be better"
James Workshop: "Best I can do is -10 points".
They had it. GW took it away.
@@arn1345 given they kill about 20 points, maybe 30 with oath, and are OC1 and a standard space marine body, which isn't a lot these days, they should be like 75 points tops probably closer to 60.
For some reason sternguard veterans are just like my favorite things. Good or bad, I bought the kit the moment it was available, and field them everytime I play.
Not sure about their in game value since I don't play the table top but the Stern Guard kit is top tier in terms of bits for conversions and stuff. You get like 15 heads 11 sets of arms with weapons and a lot of small trinkets.
Also if you want to get more tabard bodies the Crusader Squads are pretty decent as the SM's can become the Veterans and the Initiates to scouts as the scouts also come with plenty of weapons to make use of those bodies. The only tricky part is the number of both you get don't really jive with x5 man squads the best.
Nah. All other 5-10 man foot based tecticus squads have been sold as a 10 man until these came out. Halfing the value of the box was horrendous for value
@@cruelmole See bladeguard my dude
@@douglas4285 I didn't realise they were a 5-10 man squad 🤔
@cruelmole you do realize the original firstborn sternguard kit was sold as a unit of five, why would they change that.
Not a fan of making elite units cheaper. Why not make their rules better? Veteran units getting CHEAPER via points is a feelsbad.
True
Been this way since 7th. Game loses flavour for artificial “balance” where balance is solely based on comeptitive nerd games win rates using the same soup style list. Lore lists balanced list building with lien infantry to capture points in the forced structure and elites feeling like well elites and unique is gone it’s a real shame they fixed a lot of the card game nuking of 9th but removed all the flavour. I don’t know why they don’t just do heresy rules but balance it a bit or limit dreadnought usage.
Funny thing is Sternguard, an elite unit are cheaper than Heavy Intercessors..
I ran a unit of 10 Sternguard with 2 HB, in a Stormlance detachment. Using the strat, Blitzing Fusillade & oath, they were able to do enough dev wounds to a Landraider to kill it. They maybe spiked a bit high, but I think they will stay in my list, especially with a point drop.
What is that strat? Thought all stormlance strats were for mounted unit?
@@richarddixon1450 Blitzing Fusillade, gives all those bolters sustained 1 and lets you shoot the HB after advancing. it's really cute.
@thatguybrad4575 nice! I like it. I've not used stormlance or vanguard yet.
I’ve been including a unit of Intercessors in Stormlance for exactly this. Blitzing Fusillade is actually sleeper.
@@thatguybrad4575 pair that with pedro kantor for stern bolter shooting 4 attacks would be NUTS
Ive been testing these guys with Azreal in the new Inncer Circle detachment and i have to say they are my new favorite over Hellblasters. No more unlucky games losing 3+ to bad hazard rolls or opponents shooting them as much as possible because they fear the overcharge. They're just super consistent with Azreal, and that +1 to wound on the vowed target clears stuff well. Their melee does well too with potential access to +1 to wound and wound rerolls. The 70pts saved have net me a second squad of Scouts. The move blocking turn 1 has been a really useful momentum creator in trying to make the new weaker Dark Angels mesh. Overall, the kit is phenomenal to build and paint and now they actually dont feel bad to use!
I have been wanting to try this very thing. You convinced me. Do you use the flamer or the heavy bolter?
@@Mikkus123 I prefer the Heavy Bolter still. The flamer feels too inconsistent
I'd use sternguards in Anvil Siege force which takes full advantage of the heavy keyword. I'd not be too happy to get them into a melee fight with their T4 Sv3+ W2.
They would be positioned to always shoot the Oath of moment target. If they have to move to get their shots, they can use their assault keyword and get extra movement from advance+shoot in those turns. Otherwise they remain stationary and shoot the Oath of Moment target.
As long as they get to stay in range and shoot the main target each turn we'll get full value out of them.
I'd experiment with Captain Sicarius in the unit. Get out-of-movement phase movement to maximize the number of turns stationary, and dodge charges. Get assualt on all ranged weapons, including pistols and Sternguard Heavy Bolter.
I use sicarius with Sternguard a lot. Stormlance and the double move sicarius is cheesy but allow for great board presence. My last game was 95-45 against votan
I havent played since 4th ed but have been watching alot of your content lately thoroughly enjoying it you go into alot of detail regarding all current content and im really looking at getting back into collecting and playing again
The +1 st at 12 inches in the firestorm detachment helps these a bit too.
The rule should have been, always re roll wound rolls of 1 and reroll all wounds against the oath of moments target. That way they would be more consistent and fit with their lore, they should also have furry of the first/ I think all veteran units should get that tho.
I made up 10 "Risen and Redeemed" conversions to use as my Sternguard Vets for my Dark Angels. Gave them a variety of horus heresy heads and weapons etc. I have the Horus Heresy Corswain model as a counts-as Librarian to go with them. Very excited to run them again. They were quite fun in the index, got bad, and now seem worth it again.
Sounds awesome, good on you making the Lion proud
10 more pts and you can get Heavy Ints that have better guns and a better/tankier profile and oc2
My Sternguard Veterans are one of my favourite units. The re-roll 1's-to-wound our OoM target yields more devastating hits. Great combination.
Thanks Auspex, i requested literally in your last video for this!!
I've not stopped using them! Love the models so much and their bolters are absolutely powerful. Ran with a Librarian and Fire Discipline out of a Repulsor they get a lot done or force serious investment.
Even for 90pts they feel a little underwhelming, I just hate when the ability of a unit is highly specific for no purpose. Rerolling 1's on just the Oath target, really? And nothing else? Feel like they should just reroll 1's and be a good bolter threat at range and maybe get full rerolls on Oath target. That would be amazing.
If you're putting them into a transport to send them up close, a Chaplain is worth mentioning as a leader too. Disembark from a land raider, blast with rapid fire, then charge in and get +1 to wound on all of those 4 attack close combat weapons, and the Sergeant weapon. Makes them into a very versatile damage dealer.
My recent thoughts exactly
Stern. Guard really feel like how veteran intercessors were in ninth edition.
Just curious, did you factor in that against the termagaunts, Intercessors, and Terminators the combi-weapons do devastating wounds on 4+ with having anti-infantry 4+? Only causing 2 wounds out of 10 shots seems low, imo, needing 4's to hit and wound with no saving throw allowed.
I mean he did ya… technically the average would be 2.5 against those targets, but rounding it to 2 is reasonable. It is really low, they just have such crap number of attacks
I think you should look more closely at Deathwatch Sternguard, Furor Doctrine and the Tome of Ectoclades and the damage output this brings. Coming in via drop pod.
You can use the White Scars detachment to advance, shoot and charge
I love Sternguard to glad to see they got a boost with the point drop.
I'm playing a crusade and he forgot to talk about the battle-tactic strat from anvil that give reroll wound against vehicule and monster.
He skipped Anvil completely.
Idk if you missed this very big detail or maybe you don't know of it. But either way I'm here to help.
My biggest problem with Sternguard was they weren't the cream of crop in shooting and they had zero ability to be effective in combat because everyone has Close Combat Weapons except the Sgt. However because Blood Angels Sons of Sanguinous Detachment gives +1 atks and +2 to Strength on the charge. These CCW now become somewhat spicy. 5 Atks, WS3+, S6, AP-0, damage 1. If only there was a way to give them +1 AP. But wait there is the Sanguinary Priest, along with giving them a 5+ FNP. Also when used in conjunction with the Red Rampage (Battle-Tactic) stratagems you also gain Lethal + Lance. Now idk about you but a S6 + Lance should wound like 90% of all infantry models on a 2+. And what is the Sternguard Veterans special ability...? Re-roll Wounds of 1 vs Oath Target.
Please tell me that Sternguard Veterans in Blood Angels Army doesn't sound like a spicy combo especially with the Sanguinary Priest. I run a lot of Death Company in my Blood Angels list. Which Death Company are always going to re-roll the Hits of whoever they target. Which now gives the Sternguard Veterans free rain to dictate where the Oath target is going because the rest of the Army doesn't need it.
To get ap-1
Smash the target with a stormspeeder hailstrike
You could run the MC Bolter Captain with Witchseeker Bolts and 5 Sternguard in BT Righteous Crusaders Detachment. The Captain would get Precision, Dev Wounds, and Anti-Psyker 4+ for weapons without any existing modifiers, at the same engagement ranges as the Sternguard, for a total cost of 180 pts, 40 more than a PCS w/o character support. Could be a nice task force for taking out a commander (or several), or for engaging a variety of threats at range.
The new cost is very good, I think. I’ll happily pay 10 points for squad-wide Dev Wounds.
Azrael with Sternguard Vets is absolutely insane. They become incredibly tanky with surprisingly large damage output. On top of that, you can also put an Apothecary with them to take an enhancement to beef them up even further. Azrael's profile is just completely insane for his cost, he shreds at range, he shreds in melee, he provides huge benefits to the unit he leads, and he generates 1cp per turn to boot. The fact he isn't like 150 points is wild, he just does too much.
I've played him in a few 1000 and 1500 point games, and maybe its just because of the smaller scale, but truly this squad murders everything in their path and can even punch up into bigger things with the dev-wounds, sustained hits 1 for the unit pairs incredibly well with Oath of Moment, it's just all good all around.
Give them a lieutenant insane of an apothecary and it’s GG
It is the budget version of the azrael+apothecary+hellblasters combo
I still think the hellblaster combo is better
@@Bumbaclart247 oh man what a good call
It’s my Favourite combination, Sternguard lead by Azrael.
For our crusade thus far they have killed a stompa, war dog and knight rampager they . Sustained Hits lethal hits and dev wounds on with rerolls is averaging 15 wounds at 10+ toughness. It's a little silly. If you run them in Gladius Task force 2 stacks of these boys can be run using fire discipline. If you put a captain in the other squad as well both can use the Storm Fire strat to gain an extra ap and ignore cover. Little gratuitous at that point though.
Heavy intercessors with better with Toughness 6 and +1 armor save throw for D1 weapons + OC2
Really wish GW kept Grav guns, and other weapon options they had.
@@joheric8886 Stop spamming your dumb comment edgelord
@@joheric8886 silence, troll
If Guilliman wasn’t so expensive that reroll against oaths on a wound of 1 would be a great combo. Too bad you can get 2 Gladiator tanks for the same cost as him.
Give a unit of 10 of them a lieutenant and a captain in anvil seige force detachment. They gain lethal wounds and can use the battle drill stratigim for free every turn which gives them sustained hits and crits on 5+ every turn they don't move
If in anvil don't forget that no threat to great is a battle tactic as well. Full re-rolls against a vehicle or monster, if in rapid fire range and a point for battle drill recall it can do a surprising amount of dev wounds to the big boys. Not something to depend on but can be an emergency damage boost.
Why would you want lethal hits on something that needs to reroll wound rolls??
Cant devastate off an auto wound.
@@LoneWolverine1no threat too great makes these guys go nuts!
After I build my list (damage dealers, objective monkeys) as at the end looking at what battleline do I want to have? 5 man intercessors or for a little more ya could take these guys. I've liked running these guys in a 5 man unit. The sterngaurd vets trade up often in my experience.
I love the basic intercessors as a 5 men unit for their sticky objective ability. They can get you some points if the enemy is careless and lets them do their thing. Plus as they have assault weapons they can do actions/sexondary missions too
Plus powerfist :V
I could see myself using the combi weapons with the full sternguard models. Then Kitbashing some intercessors with the bolt rifles
A 10 man unit as Blood Angels with a lieutenant and Sanguinary Priest attached isn't bad. Run it in a Gladius detachment and give the lieutenant Fire Discipline. You get sustained and lethal. The Priest gives them a 5+ FnP and additonal AP in melee. Makes them a decent all around threat. As a bonus, you can throw them across the table with a Librarian Dreadnought for good placement.
I've not stopped using them. Started out with them and librarian but now run them with a lieutenant and Ventris which up the melee punch significantly. I fish for the lethal hits and just treat the dev wounds as a nice to have.
Being cheaper than Heavy Intercessors is good for them. I actually want them now. Though not to the point of saying auto include or buy immediately.
I’m waiting for all lighting claw vanguard marines.
My Raven Guard are suffering ( that is our way )
How can you field non listed divergent chapters with the rules we have.
Thank you. Blows me away how great and never ending your videos are.
My buddy plays dark angels usually plays Gladius he runs a 10 man sqwad with a captain with the fire discipline Enhancement for sustain hits on top of it and then uses the storm of fire almost every turn they can hit for free with his captain really puts the hurt on alot of my space wolves units with the dev wounds up took out most of a squad of Thunder cav interesting combo at least haha
I have used mine to screen for Infernus marines with vulkan hestan and devastating wounds stratagem, and for bothe home objective holding and skirmishing the side objective.
10 man squad led by Azreal and a lieutenant was absolutely lethal. I broke games played with that. Still good today but lethal with the rerolls from oath before the nerf. Getting 4 up invulnerable, Sustained and lethal hits, heavy and dev wounds. Fall back and shoots. Lethal. It was a good time haha.
Lethal hits ruins devastating wounds entirely. Cant make wound rolls for auto wounds.
@william9557 you can with sustained because you get those sixs back
I would have preferred a buff to a slight point decrease. A unit having veteran in it's name should show up in the stat lines. As a Marine vet I can tell you that in my experience there are stark differences between a sh#tkicker who has danced a few times and Nick the New Guy who pissed his way thru a firefight or two
Combi weapons get played the right way or not at all for me.
#ogcombiweapongang
I've been running a squad of these or hellblasters in the back of an impulsor, basically there just to buff the vehicle in to a gun platform and jump out on to objectives if needed.
With the coming of Jump Intercessor I would imagine we could see the Vanguard Vet given the Primaris treatment maybe?
One of my fav new units
These are my favorite space marine unit/models in the game. Since our codex dropped, anytime I bring them, they just.. die... even with Tiggy attached. They make me sad.
They havent done much for me since the nerf to oath but I still like the models so i use em just underwhelming to only get 2-5 1 damage dev wounds off a 10 man squad with characters and fire discipline used to consistently get 10+ dev wounds
Really miss the 9th edition special weapons. I only run conbi weapons with rerolls and i deal with my rolls almost 15 devestating wounds.
Seek therapy. You'll get over it.
@@joheric8886bro this is like the 8th comment I’ve seen of you badgering people who are voicing their opinions and concerns. You add nothing constructive to the conversation and you make yourself look like a fool by acting this way. I think you need to seek therapy if that’s all you have to add in any online discourse. The whole point of a comment like his (and others you’ve commented rudely on) is to point out the issues at hand. You shutting anyone down like this makes anyone sensible think you’re no fun at the table or nowhere near understanding as a person or otherwise close-minded. Then again this is the internet so maybe I’m expecting too much of someone like you.
@@joheric8886lolwut
I would say they would be a very fun combo with azrael in the inner circle detachment if ya know. Hellblasters wouldn't also exist
Take both in gladius for maximum sustained hits!
I run Vanguard Detachment and they pair perfectly with Uriel Ventris
He gives them a nice punch up in melee and adds value to their shooting as well. Not to mention his abilities
I like their look. Definitely want to expand my Leviathan squad to a full 10
I don’t understand the new combibolters… so there is no difference between a melter, flamer etc.? What happened?
GW decided that an army that is renowned for its adaptability and flexibility should be neither flexible nor adaptive.
@Acorbet86 yep they want space marines to play like eldar, down to its infantry fighting like aspect warriors and using grav vehicles. They are no longer space marines now, just bigger eldar.
Running 10 in the Deathwing assault all combi weapons with a captain and ancient for oath and vow rerolls. Good results so far.
Im currently looking at an unpainted box of them in my room so i hope they're good lmao
I recently tried some of these guys in the firestorm detachment. The bolt rifle already has assault so I thought it would make sense to take the combi-weapons (as they get assault for free from the detachment rule).
I'm pretty certain that even if you give the combi-weapons assault for free, the bolt rifle is still just better! What an absolutely nonsense balance of weapons.
I really like to run Azrael with 10 sternguard and an apothecary with fire discipline. It is fun:)
You don’t need fire discipline luckily! Azrael already has that built in and fire discipline doesn’t stack with that enhancement.
Azrael's sustained hits 1 works in mele aswell where as fire discipline only works on ranged weapons I'm sure
Better idea:
Match azraels S8 plasma gun with a squad of hellblasters, his +4 invul keeps them alive longer, and put bolter discipline on the sternguard!
lately i use them with pedro in anvil siege
if stars align: use pedro ability and give them sushits on 5+ per strat
i haven't done the exact math but in most cases they wipe an important infantry squad
I'm still so upset that shoot twice was removed.
I am more tempted to take Sternguard + Apothecary now with points cut when I play Repulsor Executioner just for the sake of objective control, 140 on top of 220 massive firepower doesn't look that bad.
at the start i had allways a 10 man squad of them, as soon as codex arived they ar dust collektors, especialy with thair ability
This is not competitive in any way but for the armies my friends have, lots of light infantry skitarii, gaunts and fire warriors, i put an apothecary in each unit. Id take the max 3 if i owned a third. Cheap medic picking up lost guys squeezing every last drop of value from the squad works well for me. Nice cheap squad to occupy buildings or sit on far away objectives while the actual meat of my army brawls elsewhere. Free CP when the units destroyed to for extra value.
I kind of missed Company Heroes in the Competitors section.
Isn’t that a direct competitor?
I always play them with 5 guys in impulsor. This offer lot of threat and much more survivability
Not a coincidence as GW is releasing that heroes of the chapter set. Gotta make those sales and honestly its not a bad deal assume its going to cost the same as the tyranid set at $110. Its pretty much on par with the second hand market for these collectively. May actually see the units drop down $5-10 more once this is released and folks can get here hands on the Lt and Apothocary again. I really want to see more from vets, defintiely the other variants from other chapters but maybe some new type of vets as well
Captain Tycho gives the Assault, Heavy or rapid fire each round
Sick looking models, but never really find place in my lists... for 90pts I'd rather the sticky objective utility of intercessors or the overwatch threat of infernus marines. Rather than drop the point cost I'd rather they give them a better ability, maybe a return to OG oath of moment or hitting on 2+s?
So why would you pick regular intercessors when compared to these? Just a 10 point increase for much better firepower.
Great insight, certainly gives this unit a focus and may even try it. Would be great to have this done for the heroes unit, 3 wounds each and well pointed makes them likley a bit better than this choice? What do you think?
Fire Discipline doesn't have Lethal hits, or am I missing something? It gives Sustained hits 1. Wouldn't this only be a good thing for the Sternguard and their devastating woulds?
You are correct, just usually people run the enhancement with a lieutenant on other units to give them lethal hits, maximizing the damage output for said unit. It could be run with an apothecary or a different character to not give lethal hits, but maybe feels like a worse combo then hellblasters or aggressors with lethal and sustained I guess.
I love the look of the new sterngaurd but its a shame that their kit is so barebones now.. gonna do my best to model them all with a loadout I'd like to use in a future edition.
They are okay there is just too many other options to use other than them that have better rules on average.
I’ve had success dropping a 10 man squad via drop pod
18:00-18:08 looks like anvil isn't even worth mentioning 😅😢
Dorn remains the best primarch, period (even if his detachement is shit 😂)
So, combi weapon gives +2 for dev (now on 4 up instead of just 6), but you lose a shot and heavy.
Honestly, I like them, but I think I like blade guard better. More durable against higher AP, and with a cpt activating his +3 attacks dev wounds ability they kill terminators just as good.
Idk this unit basically seems like it hops out, maybe kills something, then immediately dies to return fire. T4 3+SV and 2 wounds just isn’t great. It is fairly cheap but I don’t think it’s too great IMO.
As a CSM player, every time I see that blasted Armour of Contempt strat I must admit I grind my teeth a bit. Quite why Chaos has to pay twice as much for the exact same strat is beyond me.
Honestly, I want to like 10th, but nothing makes me more annoyed than them still not changing vehicle spam and the gutting of all combi weapons.
Why would you take the combi?
Just as I was moving onto other projects and letting my sternguard from leviathan sit in the pile of shame..
My Sternguards with Azrael and an Apothecary managed to take out the Avatar of Khaine with 2 rounds of shooting and 1 round of melee. Lethals and sustained with 40 basic attacks, Azzy, and Sergeant's power fist is p good.
Where'd you get lethal hits from in that combo??
Unforgiven task force stratagem: Unforgiven Fury
Cream of the crop to cream of the flop.
I realy wish they didnt tie there ability to oath. Then it would be great
when everyoone could take a flamer > instant part of my army but now even if they just cost 50 pts i would not take them
Not even watching the video, they have always been good 😂
That combi weapon profile is kind of salty for my taste
T4 2W means they fall over to a stiff breeze.
You could say they are…devastating.
Roses are red
White is the colour of sheep
Does Auspex sleep?
I dont think a 10% points cut is enough to move something from bad to good.
4 guys kill an intercessor, 2.5 termagants or kill half an assault terminator.
That's about 20 points of damage from FOUR costing 72 points.
Are they strong now? HELL NO!
The question is are they as strong as Malum Caedo.
They are not bad actually. Some kind of intercessors on steroids. They real competitors would be intercessors hahaha, cheaper and sticky objectives. The problem is ... Intercessors are very handy and for 95 I have eradicators for example. They are not bad at all but in the middle of all the others specialized units it is hard to give them a job.
They can't take storm bolters now? Man I'm fucking pissed with gw
Well i hope, having cool new models not be horrible is always nice :D