@@NitpickingNerds Do you realize its aristocrats and Anti-aristocrats. It's a semi-boardwipe, enchantment (harder to remove) and the best part is Anti-Aristocrats. So even if your not playing Aristocrats, it slows you opponents who are playing them. Unlike Bastion, Meathook drains life from the op when your creature dies, and gains life when your op's creature dies. Just like Dauthi Voidwalker, I can literally put Meathook in every deck with black
Prismatic Vista: 'Niche' - fetchlands make literally every deck better, and this is the most general fetchland there is. It's as 'broad' as a card could possibly be. If you meant 'niche' as in "the benefit this will bring to your deck for that price will be outweighed by other options unless you're playing a fairly tuned deck already", then maybe. I see a mana base kinda like a transmission- a well built one gives you a stable platform from which to build something powerful. Add onto that lands hold their financial value better than any other card type(meaning cost of ownership is often either neutral or actually positive), and it goes into literally every deck, and it seems like a smart choice.
I get what you're saying about a solid foundation, but a car transmission was a very poor choice of analogy. The transmission is in most cases the most complicated and finicky part of the entire car, and one that requires multiple other systems to work correctly in order to even work at all. If you're making a car analogy about a foundation, it seems insane to me that you wouldn't use the frame of the car as your example
@@sirmegallot3276 it's kind of the exact opposite though. The lower gears are where all the power and acceleration are and you trade off for efficiency as you move to each higher gear
This list was pretty awesome. Especially when talking about CoS. That is one of those cards that if you happen to already have one, then obviously use it in a tribal deck. But outside of that, that money could be used to make way better improvements to your tribal deck.
@@foddersfollies7494 Well part of the reason cavern of souls is $85 is because of modern and legacy. Death and taxes gets way better when none of your hate bears can be countered. Also other fringe decks in Legacy like goblins, merfolk, and MUD that play it
@@dotteduelist07 by all means, if you can afford the card get it. Though in your case, Shephard is a better choice than cavern. Only because it is easier to make sure you can get it. There are almost a dozen creature tutors in your colors, but only 3 land tutors I can think of. Of course, it doesn't hurt to have both in your deck if you can afford them.
I bought one for my dragon deck because honestly I loved the new Zendikar Expedition art way too much. Still to this day it's the most expensive card I ever bought and I will never buy a card that expensive again.
You're WAY off-base about Meathook Massacre. It's so flexible! It's a 2-cost enchantment that's as good as an Aristocrats staple, but is also a boardwipe that sticks around to give you value. Around $30, unfortunately is a good price and it will only go up.
I think after it rotates out it will drop in price considerably. But It is very good and definitely worth having, IMO just not are that price range; I'd be happy up to $10
Meathook is only at that price purely due to standard. Seriously a majority of decks that use this card is standard right now, hence why they say that the card is not worth it for its current price.
Its a good card, but should not ever be above 10 dollars. Not even now that it is standard legal. Its not the best wrath in standard right now and for commander its price is above toxic deluge which is ridiculous
Guys I love these videos. A FEW WORDS OF ADVICE REGARDING IMPROVING SOUND QUALITY >>> :) I would recommend facing your mics towards your mouth. They already have a windscreen and you're picking up a lot of room noise / echo. I would also look into acoustically treating your room. The easiest, best, and cheapest method is to get a bunch of old towels from goodwill, pack them in a 2x4 wooden frame, and wrap them in cheap covering material. Hang them wherever you think is best but I would recommend wherever your mouths are facing when you're recording the videos. That will make the biggest impact. There is a RUclips video showing this and will drastically reduce room echo and improve video sound quality. Now get to more great commander content! Also give me a shout out if it helps ;P
As of right now10/11/2021 at 10/;40AM PST the retro foil etched Arid Mesa is around 24 USD. Fantastic buy-in price for those seeking bling fetches. Even for those that aren't you can find Arid Mesa for as little as 17 USD.
@@Kevin-cy4gc I'm pretty sure I did already, yeah. $55 is absolutely ridiculous though; it's not a bad card, but it's definitely not Smothering Tithe or Rhystic Study good. And those cards are still cheaper.
Cavern isn't exclusively a tribal card, Commanders that are difficult to play due to their impact are usually the ones most in need of Cavern. For instance, Cavern is used in my Narset deck and Atraxa Superfreinds/Stax deck. Both those decks run Cavern exclusively to guarantee Commanders hit the board (and for Narset usually gives me the win).
I think that Sensei's Divining Top as an EDH staple makes Descendant's Path worth it. If you can't afford that or want only green there is also Mirri's Guile. Even a Scroll Rack can guarantee you hitting Path every turn. Top deck tutor a win con creature at the end of the opponents turn. Any tribal deck capable of producing green should have this.
We strongly disagree. Having some synergies with great cards doesn’t make it a great card. 3 mana cards that have no impact on the board are not where you want to be in commander. If you are lower power say 6 or lower this card is fine but in decks that higher power I’m not even close to interested
@@NitpickingNerds I think that overall power 9 and 10 CEDH decks shouldn't even be in the discussion when talking about a card's value. Once you reach power 9 and 10 I would argue that budget usually doesn't matter just based off of the high cost of entry to your basic CEDH staples. That aside, I would also argue that any not slapped together tribal is usually starting out at power 5 or 6 meaning that any improperly put together or low power tribal deck wouldn't be able to use that card effectively and by your statement any power 7 or 8 would be too good for that card. That essentially makes that card unplayable and/or have little to no return regardless of the power level deck it is included in. With the amount of top deck control opportunities each color has, including artifacts, I really think you guys are undervaluing Path. I know this is long, but to say that a card isn't good just because it isn't good by itself without good synergy is getting rid of a massive amount of high power, high value cards. That's the reason that some cards are valued so high not because they are by themselves good but they create great synergies or else combos wouldn't be in any part of any discussion of value or deck building in any way shape or form. You guys even referenced that when it came to your valuation of Cavern of Souls.
Lotus petal is such a fantastic card it goes in every deck and has won me so many games. Everyone I know plays it in all their decks. That card kicks ass.
Some of these I agreed with, some I didn't. Of the ones I didn't, most I could sort of see your argument against. I just don't see the meathook hate though. It's the same base CMC as Zullaport or blood artist, as an enchantment so it's much harder to get rid of. It also has the added benefit of being a damnation for more than 90% of mana dork and utility creatures in commander. 4 cmc, with x =2, will completely reset a game in most circumstances. I think it's priced where it needs to be.
It’s going to tank when it comes out of standard. I’ll be super surprised if it stays above 10 once that happens. It’s not a bad card, they’re saying it’s easily replaceable.
@@starmanda88 I don't understand why you think it rotating out of standard will cause a price drop. It's being driven by commander. All of the new vampire aristocrat decks being built because of Innistrad MH and CV are what's driving it. Yes, it will probably go down in price some once more packs are cracked. But as I said above, it's a better damnation. For the same CMC as damnation, you kill every problem elf, goblin, artifact creature that reduces artifact casting costs, etc. For 5 cmc you hit most of the top commanders on edhrec. And it sticks around through board wipes netting continued benefit over the other aristocrat cards.
I play lotus petal in my locust God deck because the commander is 6 mana, if I can get him out 1 turn earlier, I'll do it. I don't think its all that bad. No, it's no grim monolith or anything like that, but then again it doesn't cost 130 €, but you are correct, it is 1 free mana, I might take it out for something else.
instead of descendants path use call to the kindred. yes its an enchantment aura and yes it costs one more but it looks at the top 5 cards and puts it into play (can't be countered btw) versus just the top card with descendants path. Also that card is dirt cheap and way more fun. Toss it onto something with hexproof and everyone will be scrambling to wipe the board.
Great stuff as always. Your work has really grown in recent months. I hadn't watched you guys in a while but now I'm watching every video and even the shorts.
Sometimes I listen to you guys while I drive, could you please explain what the cards mentioned do, so I don't have to illegally check my screen while I drive, haha. Great content, boys 👍
in my dina, soul steeper deck i swung a board into my favor by board wiping with the meat hook massacre and making everyone lose 14 from all the life i gained. i think the card is a lot better than you guys make it out to be.
No they aren’t making it out to be worse than it is they’re saying that it’s not worth 40 bucks and they’re right it’s not, the second it rotates out of standard it won’t be more than five or six dollars. If you cracked it out of a pack awesome but if you’re just thinking about going out and buying one to put in your commander deck wait till it rotates
Of course it's good, but like they said you can get the aristocrat effect from a bunch of other 50 cent cards so spending 30 bucks for it isnt really necessary
@@thetogtube2 Not really. Slivers want you to replace everything with Slivers, so you're almost guaranteed to reach the critical mass needed to make it good
Dark Confidant: 'This becomes good when you begin going down on synergy and up on general good stuff' - Having a 2 drop that immediately begins getting you cards increases in value as the synergy between your cards increases. Also, "It's worse than sylvan library" - yeah, it's also worse than Ancestral Recall. That's not much of an argument, lol.
my brother pulled a shadowspear and an uro from a booster box. We tried to sell the uro to card kingdom but they never got back to us and never returned the packaged card.
In the Avacyn restored prerelease tourney I pulled a descendants path and an Avacyn. There was a 1 mana white angel also. First game play the one mana angel, third turn play the path, next upkeep flip over Avacyn. My opponent couldn't believe it.
Cavern of souls isnt for tribal decks. you just name your commander and no one can counter it. its important for protecting decks that depend entirely on their commander to win and don't have access to blue for counterspells to protect it while its on the stack. It gives all colors access to protection on the stack, and on a land that sticks around in case there happen to be other creatures in your deck that share a creature type with your commander.
I built a cycling deck its an absolute house in. Sadly i got mine while it was like 15, but im always happy to see card prices drop. I think the price decrease is probably due to teferi's ageless insight as now you can get Alhammarret's effect for a lower cmc and under 2 bucks.
@@nathanojyeksalccm it recently got reprinted in the whiterbloom precon (that's when the price dropped here in Europe at least) and more copies got injected into the market over time via the list
I have Descendant's path in my Selvala Eldrazi deck and it is very fun and sometimes very powerful when you hit something big. It's also my favourite art in all of MTG personally, still bummed Terese had sold out of Playmats of it once I actually had the money to buy one (and pay for shipping to the UK).
Cavern of souls dropped in price!!! I was able to pick up a borderless for 55 bucks. Ok that's a one off but prices are coming down thanks to reprint. The foil borderless is still over 100. It does protect my dragons from getting countered though. Love it.
I just picked up a Chronicles Altar on eBay for $7, no shipping. This is amazing in my Wilhelt zombies deck. Crucible might be decent in a self-mill deck? I was lucky enough to get a Liliana, Dreadhorde General when I bought the War Planeswalker decks. She's amazing in my Wilhelt deck as well.
You don't even need CoS for aa purely tribal deck. It almost guarantees resolving your commander. And that can be a big deal if your deck relies heavily on your commander being in play. The price is a bit much, but it is satisfying to stick it to some counter happy people~
I watched a RUclips video of an old mtg tournament, this dude plays city of traitors, 2 lotus petals and casts a sneak attack (was sneak attack eldrazi deck) on turn 1. Opponent plays a force of will. Now THAT was a feels bad lol. Just a funny lotus petal story.
@@thekwjiboo oh god. I couldn’t even imagine the pain that guy felt. I’m still waiting to see sol ring get countered in commander by an Annul. That’s another feel bad. $13-15 for a lotus pedal is a little pricey and can feel bad as a draw mid game. Nonetheless, still a great card.
@@skate14eras oh it definitely is. Especially if you're really looking to maximize the power of your deck. Or if you're running Urza or Galazeth Prismari as your commander, then it's essentially a free extra land drop.
@@thekwjiboo couldn’t agree more. I had an extra one laying around and threw it in my Edgar Markov deck and it plays a lot better than I thought. Starting hand with petal and two one drop vampires on turn one is super scary.
Hey there! Congrats on approaching 50k remember i am one of the early ones i'm so proud of you, you deserve it all, keep your enthusiasm and pace! Been out for a while, just kept up with some of your recent videos and i wanna add a card to the fun splashy big mana spells one: Soulfire cascade! I just saw the TCG edh video with it being cast for 10 and it was super fun! And also wanna add Pako, archane retriever / haldan, avid archanist to the "most fun to play against" video: i recently played 3 games againts that partner edh deck at it was super fun. Won 2 out of 3 so it was not broken per se, but could very well overrun you if you let it go, you have to not let the opponent have both on the battlefield at the same time but it's easier said than done :)
The good thing about Meathook Massacre is that it's both, a boardwipe and an aristocrats effect. One that is pretty hard to remove, too. It's just very efficient. Maybe not 30 dollar efficient, but 20 for sure.
I always forget about Pattern of Rebirth! Thanks for reminding me. I used to play it in Jund deck and it was INSANE. I think in general people (including myself) just don't think about how frequently their creatures die when they build their deck, so Pattern gets undervalued.
Descendants' Path I'd generally agree with you on, but it does work nicely in a creature-focussed dragon tribal deck. You save a good amount of mana each dragon you hit, since they all tend to be high MV, and a fair few have haste too. Serves as a good early game play before you're able to start casting your dragons.
I think think the thing about crucible of worlds being card advantage to remember your opponents don’t know that the card in your hand is a land the more times you play land out of the graveyard the more information you conceal from your opponents, I think as long as you have the full suite of fetches in your deck, If you wanted to slot it in you could
Nice Video! I just thought how good Descendants Path is in every single tribal deck (except Hydras) that contains green. That can be a gamewinner in those.
I run a play set of meathook massacre in a “kill and counter” dimir deck, that tries to get my opponent into top deck mode with nothing else, and it helps clear up a go wide deck that scramble to get everything out of hand to keep from discarding it. it’s an all star, because it also helps me live against super aggro decks that can get me low quick.
Meathook Massacre is much better than you guys probably realize. It's expensive because of standard format, yes, but even in EDH it's really really good.
Emry loves Lotus Petal but that is really one of the few ones who love it. It was nice to see your opinions and see what you could buy for alternatives as well.
Crucible of worlds has been awesome in madness anje and linear Tergrid, God of fright. Sometimes it's worth to pitch your lands to make your land drops from grave to pay for draw spells/additional costs/ synergy pieces like key to the city and the like. There's a lot to explore with crucible.
Meanwhile, I've got Bob in my Jirina Kudro deck, because that deck needs all the efficient card advantage it can get, plus he's a human and therefore a positive synergy for the deck! XD But yeah, he's definitely too expensive for most decks.
Ayyyyyy yet another fated encounter in my recommended. 43 minutes after posting and im here again. Ive rung the bell but i dont actually get Notifs. Sick vid yall!!
Gotta hard disagree with your opinion on Meathook, the card is obviously an upgrade to aristocrats, its another way to get value from creatures dying when you want it and a boardwipe when you need it. Perhaps in cEDH I can see it not being so great but in the casual deck that flexibility is gonna come in clutch for those who have one.
I am feeling pretty good about picking up a meathook massacre at 10 bucks before it shot up. I agree that I wouldn't touch it at $32 though. I have a few other decks that would like to have one but I'll wait for it to come down. It's not broken by any means I just like the versatility and having that effect on an artifact which can be harder to remove. It's not a replacement for bastion or zulaport just a complement.
Descendant's Path is such a good card in tribal deck, but it's not optimal, i usually play it with scroll rack or sensei's... i admit its not a 10 dollar card
I think cavern of souls is great when you need a creature to stick to essentially win the game. When I think of CoS, I think play it, name giant, play primeval titan, primeval titan effect and combo to a win. I don’t think there is a creature in EDH that applies in that way. Thassa’s Oracle maybe but that is a two card combo where the other cards isn’t protected by CoS.
@@ACrazedGaming It is in EDH but not in Modern. The combo I am referring to happens in Modern. I'm trying to show how Primeval Titan is more impactful in a format like Modern and not in EDH.
What is your guys meta exactly? I've been trying to figure it out. It's seems like some tier 2-3 combo's allowed, but has some funky social contract involved with no stacks and no land destruction... so just whatever is fastest wins? It's confusing to see how you value cards sometimes.
I remember whenever they would see Cavern of Souls go for under $40 I would buy my play set so I could play it in my modern decks. Still waiting patiently for that reprint…
You fellas were talking about rates with Mind's Eye which will give 5 cards for 10 mana and then you say Search the Premises is better but it's rates are worse at 5 cards for 14 mana? I don't think having a permanent is significant, especially in mono white when you're more than likely going to want to cast mass remove but can't because you're going to be forced to destroy all of your clues.
I personally have found CoS always worth it and all the price points it’s had. While you CAN most definitely build efficient mana bases on a budget, CoS is a beast of a tribal card. Making a lot of your splashy tribal creatures that finish the game not able to be countered is enough sometimes on its own but then it can be a rainbow land for all your dudes? Sign me up personally.
I bought a deck the other day a got The Deck of Many Things. Tcg has it at $66. I can't see any use for it other than a jinks deck. Sadly I have a couple other cards that are expensive to by but again no use for them.
Descendants' Path is good in some tribal decks like Slivers, where it effectively gives you a redraw to a Sliver every turn (since the card revealed by Path goes to the bottom of the library if it's not a Sliver.) Path is also good with changelings like Morophon. It's probably not worth $10 because it doesn't go into a lot of decks, but it is very playable in the right ones.
@@NitpickingNerds :( then you're sad. however the sliver EDH deck typically runs 35+ slivers and just wants to draw and cast as many slivers as possible. IMO the times you fateseal away something like a cyc rift is balanced out by the times you get to free-cast a sliver + the times you fateseal away a land and draw a sliver. it's grindy but good.
Prismatic Vista is what the a fair fetchland would look like. If Prismatic Vista and the slow fetches were all that was legal in commander, I wouldn't be upset. Fetchlands are simply too good and accelerate too many strategies.
5:50 I have 1 Cavern of Souls, and 4 (5?) tribal decks. None of my tribal decks play it, as it just doesn't do much in those decks, how much do I actually care about one or two synergy pieces here and there. Where Cavern does do work, is in decks that rely on the commander as the synergy piece, as is the case for my Captain Sisay Deck. I need to make sure she lands in play and starts to grab the pieces i need and Cavern does that for me.
I'm extremely lucky the owner of the LGS I go to got me a meathook massacre when it was like 15 bucks cause everyone was holding them to sell them when it exploded, it's ridiculous
Happy to see another version of this video.
Thank you! We will keep em coming if people keep enjoying!
Meathook massacre is exceptional in my opinion. So much value in a single top deck.
It is good no doubt just not close to worth it’s price
Agreed, bad take on their part.
@@NitpickingNerds for standard its well worth but yeh outside that its just a good card that isnt worth, im happy with my 70$ extended holo :D
Meathook massacre isn't even expensive
@@NitpickingNerds Do you realize its aristocrats and Anti-aristocrats. It's a semi-boardwipe, enchantment (harder to remove) and the best part is Anti-Aristocrats. So even if your not playing Aristocrats, it slows you opponents who are playing them. Unlike Bastion, Meathook drains life from the op when your creature dies, and gains life when your op's creature dies. Just like Dauthi Voidwalker, I can literally put Meathook in every deck with black
Prismatic Vista: 'Niche' - fetchlands make literally every deck better, and this is the most general fetchland there is. It's as 'broad' as a card could possibly be. If you meant 'niche' as in "the benefit this will bring to your deck for that price will be outweighed by other options unless you're playing a fairly tuned deck already", then maybe. I see a mana base kinda like a transmission- a well built one gives you a stable platform from which to build something powerful. Add onto that lands hold their financial value better than any other card type(meaning cost of ownership is often either neutral or actually positive), and it goes into literally every deck, and it seems like a smart choice.
I get what you're saying about a solid foundation, but a car transmission was a very poor choice of analogy. The transmission is in most cases the most complicated and finicky part of the entire car, and one that requires multiple other systems to work correctly in order to even work at all. If you're making a car analogy about a foundation, it seems insane to me that you wouldn't use the frame of the car as your example
@@jtmurr A transmission goes into higher gears, in a similar way you would build mana during a game. One could argue.
@@sirmegallot3276 it's kind of the exact opposite though. The lower gears are where all the power and acceleration are and you trade off for efficiency as you move to each higher gear
This list was pretty awesome. Especially when talking about CoS. That is one of those cards that if you happen to already have one, then obviously use it in a tribal deck. But outside of that, that money could be used to make way better improvements to your tribal deck.
Cavern is a great card, but you're literally paying 85 dollars for one line of rules text. Otherwise, it's unclaimed territory.
@@foddersfollies7494 Well part of the reason cavern of souls is $85 is because of modern and legacy. Death and taxes gets way better when none of your hate bears can be countered. Also other fringe decks in Legacy like goblins, merfolk, and MUD that play it
If your commander is vital for your strategy then run it. I run it in zacama primal calamity, and in my cedh decks.
@@dotteduelist07 by all means, if you can afford the card get it. Though in your case, Shephard is a better choice than cavern. Only because it is easier to make sure you can get it. There are almost a dozen creature tutors in your colors, but only 3 land tutors I can think of. Of course, it doesn't hurt to have both in your deck if you can afford them.
I bought one for my dragon deck because honestly I loved the new Zendikar Expedition art way too much.
Still to this day it's the most expensive card I ever bought and I will never buy a card that expensive again.
Pattern of Rebirth on a mana dork that you sac to Natural Order would be nuts. Going to get your two best creatures seems like a great idea
Yeah that’s a GG
@@NitpickingNerds seems like I definitely need one in my Chatterfang deck...
Build your own tooth and nail.
@@benkubisiak1459 I play it in my Wulfgar deck and depending on board state I usually get Kalonian Hydra and Xenagos
You're WAY off-base about Meathook Massacre. It's so flexible! It's a 2-cost enchantment that's as good as an Aristocrats staple, but is also a boardwipe that sticks around to give you value. Around $30, unfortunately is a good price and it will only go up.
I think after it rotates out it will drop in price considerably. But It is very good and definitely worth having, IMO just not are that price range; I'd be happy up to $10
I do agree Meathook is so darn good in black and with willhelt it is awsome
Meathook is only at that price purely due to standard. Seriously a majority of decks that use this card is standard right now, hence why they say that the card is not worth it for its current price.
Its a good card, but should not ever be above 10 dollars. Not even now that it is standard legal. Its not the best wrath in standard right now and for commander its price is above toxic deluge which is ridiculous
You guys are getting better at this. I would recommend this to any of my Commander buddies. Love the disagreements and discussions
Guys I love these videos.
A FEW WORDS OF ADVICE REGARDING IMPROVING SOUND QUALITY >>> :)
I would recommend facing your mics towards your mouth. They already have a windscreen and you're picking up a lot of room noise / echo. I would also look into acoustically treating your room.
The easiest, best, and cheapest method is to get a bunch of old towels from goodwill, pack them in a 2x4 wooden frame, and wrap them in cheap covering material.
Hang them wherever you think is best but I would recommend wherever your mouths are facing when you're recording the videos. That will make the biggest impact.
There is a RUclips video showing this and will drastically reduce room echo and improve video sound quality.
Now get to more great commander content! Also give me a shout out if it helps ;P
good advice. you gents should take it.
@@remy333 thanks shin!
As of right now10/11/2021 at 10/;40AM PST the retro foil etched Arid Mesa is around 24 USD. Fantastic buy-in price for those seeking bling fetches. Even for those that aren't you can find Arid Mesa for as little as 17 USD.
I agree with most except note that meathook massacre is a really good card and I dont seen it getting lower than 10dollars even after std rotates
Damn, Meathook is really $32 right now?!I got one in my prerelease kit and didn't think twice about it. Maybe I should go ahead and sell it...
Good call
I got it foil omg
It'll go down eventually, probably not below 10-15 but 32 is way too much
Did you end up selling it? It's ~$55 now
@@Kevin-cy4gc I'm pretty sure I did already, yeah. $55 is absolutely ridiculous though; it's not a bad card, but it's definitely not Smothering Tithe or Rhystic Study good. And those cards are still cheaper.
Cavern isn't exclusively a tribal card, Commanders that are difficult to play due to their impact are usually the ones most in need of Cavern. For instance, Cavern is used in my Narset deck and Atraxa Superfreinds/Stax deck. Both those decks run Cavern exclusively to guarantee Commanders hit the board (and for Narset usually gives me the win).
Gotta say I look forward to the new videos everyday.
That's great, we love making daily content! :D
I think that Sensei's Divining Top as an EDH staple makes Descendant's Path worth it. If you can't afford that or want only green there is also Mirri's Guile. Even a Scroll Rack can guarantee you hitting Path every turn. Top deck tutor a win con creature at the end of the opponents turn. Any tribal deck capable of producing green should have this.
We strongly disagree. Having some synergies with great cards doesn’t make it a great card. 3 mana cards that have no impact on the board are not where you want to be in commander. If you are lower power say 6 or lower this card is fine but in decks that higher power I’m not even close to interested
@@NitpickingNerds I think that overall power 9 and 10 CEDH decks shouldn't even be in the discussion when talking about a card's value. Once you reach power 9 and 10 I would argue that budget usually doesn't matter just based off of the high cost of entry to your basic CEDH staples. That aside, I would also argue that any not slapped together tribal is usually starting out at power 5 or 6 meaning that any improperly put together or low power tribal deck wouldn't be able to use that card effectively and by your statement any power 7 or 8 would be too good for that card. That essentially makes that card unplayable and/or have little to no return regardless of the power level deck it is included in. With the amount of top deck control opportunities each color has, including artifacts, I really think you guys are undervaluing Path. I know this is long, but to say that a card isn't good just because it isn't good by itself without good synergy is getting rid of a massive amount of high power, high value cards. That's the reason that some cards are valued so high not because they are by themselves good but they create great synergies or else combos wouldn't be in any part of any discussion of value or deck building in any way shape or form. You guys even referenced that when it came to your valuation of Cavern of Souls.
It's for Angels, eldrazzi, dinosaurs the late game high cost decks.
Beezy: 50,000 subscribers = send us your stuff and we open it
Me: Now how to fit 50,000 grave titans in a mailbox
Good lucky you can’t fit that much bad in an envelope
Lotus petal is such a fantastic card it goes in every deck and has won me so many games. Everyone I know plays it in all their decks. That card kicks ass.
Some of these I agreed with, some I didn't. Of the ones I didn't, most I could sort of see your argument against. I just don't see the meathook hate though. It's the same base CMC as Zullaport or blood artist, as an enchantment so it's much harder to get rid of. It also has the added benefit of being a damnation for more than 90% of mana dork and utility creatures in commander. 4 cmc, with x =2, will completely reset a game in most circumstances. I think it's priced where it needs to be.
It’s going to tank when it comes out of standard. I’ll be super surprised if it stays above 10 once that happens. It’s not a bad card, they’re saying it’s easily replaceable.
@@starmanda88 I don't understand why you think it rotating out of standard will cause a price drop. It's being driven by commander. All of the new vampire aristocrat decks being built because of Innistrad MH and CV are what's driving it. Yes, it will probably go down in price some once more packs are cracked. But as I said above, it's a better damnation. For the same CMC as damnation, you kill every problem elf, goblin, artifact creature that reduces artifact casting costs, etc. For 5 cmc you hit most of the top commanders on edhrec. And it sticks around through board wipes netting continued benefit over the other aristocrat cards.
I play lotus petal in my locust God deck because the commander is 6 mana, if I can get him out 1 turn earlier, I'll do it. I don't think its all that bad. No, it's no grim monolith or anything like that, but then again it doesn't cost 130 €, but you are correct, it is 1 free mana, I might take it out for something else.
instead of descendants path use call to the kindred. yes its an enchantment aura and yes it costs one more but it looks at the top 5 cards and puts it into play (can't be countered btw) versus just the top card with descendants path. Also that card is dirt cheap and way more fun. Toss it onto something with hexproof and everyone will be scrambling to wipe the board.
It seems fun but not a card we would play personally
Great stuff as always. Your work has really grown in recent months. I hadn't watched you guys in a while but now I'm watching every video and even the shorts.
Sometimes I listen to you guys while I drive, could you please explain what the cards mentioned do, so I don't have to illegally check my screen while I drive, haha.
Great content, boys 👍
We are a very visual channel but we could
in my dina, soul steeper deck i swung a board into my favor by board wiping with the meat hook massacre and making everyone lose 14 from all the life i gained. i think the card is a lot better than you guys make it out to be.
Meathook is so good in Dina. It's pretty meh in other decks. But in Dina it's basically game over. Love Dina...one of my fav decks.
The card is great but it’s currently dominating standard that’s why it’s so expensive
No they aren’t making it out to be worse than it is they’re saying that it’s not worth 40 bucks and they’re right it’s not, the second it rotates out of standard it won’t be more than five or six dollars. If you cracked it out of a pack awesome but if you’re just thinking about going out and buying one to put in your commander deck wait till it rotates
Of course it's good, but like they said you can get the aristocrat effect from a bunch of other 50 cent cards so spending 30 bucks for it isnt really necessary
@@scarletrobin blood artist
Luckily have a Cavern of Souls from back in the Inistrad days. Crazy to me that that land is 80 bucks now
Cavern of souls is so damn good in 5 color slivers. For both the tribal benefit and the colors. Other than that not worth it.
or 5 color dragons... or any 5 color tribe right?
@@thetogtube2 oh...well yeah. Me not smart sometimes.
@@thetogtube2 Not really. Slivers want you to replace everything with Slivers, so you're almost guaranteed to reach the critical mass needed to make it good
I actually have siimilar feelings on both Descendants Path and Mox Amber, specifically in The First Sliver to synergize with Cascade.
I’ve been binging your series where you grade the staples in each color and loving it! So nice to see a new video! Love your channel!
With daily content we are probably the perfect channel for binging, thanks! :D
I'm with beezy on the lotus petal
MM is surprisingly good.
It has a pseudo board wipe effect
Then a permanent life gain and life burn
Also, it just absolutely screws over token decks.
Dark Confidant: 'This becomes good when you begin going down on synergy and up on general good stuff' - Having a 2 drop that immediately begins getting you cards increases in value as the synergy between your cards increases. Also, "It's worse than sylvan library" - yeah, it's also worse than Ancestral Recall. That's not much of an argument, lol.
It is if you’re nit picky
my brother pulled a shadowspear and an uro from a booster box. We tried to sell the uro to card kingdom but they never got back to us and never returned the packaged card.
Geez that sucks have you tried contacting customer service
In the Avacyn restored prerelease tourney I pulled a descendants path and an Avacyn. There was a 1 mana white angel also. First game play the one mana angel, third turn play the path, next upkeep flip over Avacyn. My opponent couldn't believe it.
Cavern of souls isnt for tribal decks. you just name your commander and no one can counter it. its important for protecting decks that depend entirely on their commander to win and don't have access to blue for counterspells to protect it while its on the stack. It gives all colors access to protection on the stack, and on a land that sticks around in case there happen to be other creatures in your deck that share a creature type with your commander.
Lotus Petal is pretty specific, but in something like Emry it’s bonkers.
Agreed completely
Lotus Petal can be extremely crazy in my Osgir deck where it basically becomes a black lotus with one extra hoop
I run it in Urza. Best case I play Urza a turn earlier. Worst case it's a mox sapphire.
I agree that mind’s eye isn’t great or optimal. But you’ve never seen it so it’s thing in a osgir/victory chime combo
I threw Alhammarret's Archive into Varina and it's worked phenomenally . Got close to milling myself one game, but what can you do?
SUPER sick in that deck!
I built a cycling deck its an absolute house in. Sadly i got mine while it was like 15, but im always happy to see card prices drop. I think the price decrease is probably due to teferi's ageless insight as now you can get Alhammarret's effect for a lower cmc and under 2 bucks.
@@nathanojyeksalccm it recently got reprinted in the whiterbloom precon (that's when the price dropped here in Europe at least) and more copies got injected into the market over time via the list
I would want Descendants' Path in something like Eldrazi. Being able to *cast* the card off the top is a huge plus in my eyes.
I have Descendant's path in my Selvala Eldrazi deck and it is very fun and sometimes very powerful when you hit something big. It's also my favourite art in all of MTG personally, still bummed Terese had sold out of Playmats of it once I actually had the money to buy one (and pay for shipping to the UK).
Doesn't shapeshifters or maskwood nexus auto trigger it for creature?
@@Shade_Durza Yep, and Conspiracy if you happen to run black. Fun times in a Grist deck.
The Nitpicking Nerds' intro is boosting my dopamine and serotonin levels
Cavern of souls dropped in price!!! I was able to pick up a borderless for 55 bucks. Ok that's a one off but prices are coming down thanks to reprint. The foil borderless is still over 100. It does protect my dragons from getting countered though. Love it.
Lotus petal is a great card for Muldrotha. One up on mana every turn
What I like about this video type is the community feedback and the historical price data.
I just picked up a Chronicles Altar on eBay for $7, no shipping. This is amazing in my Wilhelt zombies deck. Crucible might be decent in a self-mill deck? I was lucky enough to get a Liliana, Dreadhorde General when I bought the War Planeswalker decks. She's amazing in my Wilhelt deck as well.
The corner case for Meathook Massacre is my Jund Primal Surge deck. It's one of the few boardwipes in those colors that's good.
If you have 1 it is good to play just wouldn't buy it
was pretty lucky to buy two copies of Ashnod's Altar at a store that didn't know how to price them untill a few weeks later : >
You don't even need CoS for aa purely tribal deck. It almost guarantees resolving your commander. And that can be a big deal if your deck relies heavily on your commander being in play. The price is a bit much, but it is satisfying to stick it to some counter happy people~
Every card is worth it if you enjoy it
Ad nauseum with lotus petal, and other 0 cost spells. It fits really well with it.
That is fair!
I think lotus pedal is such a good card for commander. Starting hand is GOLDEN
I love me some cheap spells 😍
I watched a RUclips video of an old mtg tournament, this dude plays city of traitors, 2 lotus petals and casts a sneak attack (was sneak attack eldrazi deck) on turn 1. Opponent plays a force of will. Now THAT was a feels bad lol. Just a funny lotus petal story.
@@thekwjiboo oh god. I couldn’t even imagine the pain that guy felt. I’m still waiting to see sol ring get countered in commander by an Annul. That’s another feel bad.
$13-15 for a lotus pedal is a little pricey and can feel bad as a draw mid game. Nonetheless, still a great card.
@@skate14eras oh it definitely is. Especially if you're really looking to maximize the power of your deck. Or if you're running Urza or Galazeth Prismari as your commander, then it's essentially a free extra land drop.
@@thekwjiboo couldn’t agree more. I had an extra one laying around and threw it in my Edgar Markov deck and it plays a lot better than I thought. Starting hand with petal and two one drop vampires on turn one is super scary.
Hey there! Congrats on approaching 50k remember i am one of the early ones i'm so proud of you, you deserve it all, keep your enthusiasm and pace! Been out for a while, just kept up with some of your recent videos and i wanna add a card to the fun splashy big mana spells one: Soulfire cascade! I just saw the TCG edh video with it being cast for 10 and it was super fun! And also wanna add Pako, archane retriever / haldan, avid archanist to the "most fun to play against" video: i recently played 3 games againts that partner edh deck at it was super fun. Won 2 out of 3 so it was not broken per se, but could very well overrun you if you let it go, you have to not let the opponent have both on the battlefield at the same time but it's easier said than done :)
The good thing about Meathook Massacre is that it's both, a boardwipe and an aristocrats effect. One that is pretty hard to remove, too. It's just very efficient. Maybe not 30 dollar efficient, but 20 for sure.
Y’all are my favorite mtg RUclips channel. Y’all are funny.
Big compliment, thank you!
I should have gone with my gut and picked up a ton of Shadowspears when it first came out. I knew it would blow up.
I always forget about Pattern of Rebirth! Thanks for reminding me. I used to play it in Jund deck and it was INSANE. I think in general people (including myself) just don't think about how frequently their creatures die when they build their deck, so Pattern gets undervalued.
I bought a cavern of souls from ultimate masters for 75 ofd ebay, I was really happy about that
Descendants' Path I'd generally agree with you on, but it does work nicely in a creature-focussed dragon tribal deck. You save a good amount of mana each dragon you hit, since they all tend to be high MV, and a fair few have haste too. Serves as a good early game play before you're able to start casting your dragons.
I think think the thing about crucible of worlds being card advantage to remember your opponents don’t know that the card in your hand is a land the more times you play land out of the graveyard the more information you conceal from your opponents, I think as long as you have the full suite of fetches in your deck, If you wanted to slot it in you could
Nice Video! I just thought how good Descendants Path is in every single tribal deck (except Hydras) that contains green. That can be a gamewinner in those.
I run a play set of meathook massacre in a “kill and counter” dimir deck, that tries to get my opponent into top deck mode with nothing else, and it helps clear up a go wide deck that scramble to get everything out of hand to keep from discarding it.
it’s an all star, because it also helps me live against super aggro decks that can get me low quick.
Meathook Massacre is much better than you guys probably realize. It's expensive because of standard format, yes, but even in EDH it's really really good.
Emry loves Lotus Petal but that is really one of the few ones who love it. It was nice to see your opinions and see what you could buy for alternatives as well.
Descendant's Path is amazing in sliver decks like mine.
It does work in my changeling lords deck too. More than a few times I've gotten a free Ulamog on turn 4... :)
It also works great in Dragon tribal.
Dinosaurs also checking in
I actually pulled meathook massacre from a pack a few days ago. Midnight hunt had another good sweeper too: vanquish the horde
Or as I still call it, "Odric's Fucking Had It".
@@thomascollins5622 lol!! He reminds me of a demon slayer mixed with bang from one punch man 😂😂😂
You guys are the best MTG content creators!
I miss chaining Strip Mines. Going to have to rebuild Tatyova.
You guys are my go to for falling asleep now. Can only patrons submit? What do you guys think of Liliana heretical healer?
I agree with your evaluation 👎🏼 of Dark Confidant.
I think Twilight Prophet, in the other hand, is amazing.
What do you think about Shadowspear vs Bonds of Mortality in green decks?
Shadowspear actively helps equipped creature, while Bonds replaces itself.
Crucible of worlds has been awesome in madness anje and linear Tergrid, God of fright. Sometimes it's worth to pitch your lands to make your land drops from grave to pay for draw spells/additional costs/ synergy pieces like key to the city and the like. There's a lot to explore with crucible.
Keep that sweet content coming
Meanwhile, I've got Bob in my Jirina Kudro deck, because that deck needs all the efficient card advantage it can get, plus he's a human and therefore a positive synergy for the deck! XD
But yeah, he's definitely too expensive for most decks.
Love you guys!
Muldrotha and lotus petal is pretty nice
Very solid!
Personally I bought a Cavern of Souls and Bayou a few days ago since I'm an elf/fungus player.
Ayyyyyy yet another fated encounter in my recommended. 43 minutes after posting and im here again. Ive rung the bell but i dont actually get Notifs. Sick vid yall!!
emory, lurker of the loch and lotus petal is pretty great.
Gotta hard disagree with your opinion on Meathook, the card is obviously an upgrade to aristocrats, its another way to get value from creatures dying when you want it and a boardwipe when you need it. Perhaps in cEDH I can see it not being so great but in the casual deck that flexibility is gonna come in clutch for those who have one.
I love this series! I have learned so much from you guys ^^
Thx again for a great video! ^^
That's great to hear!
Way to keep the content rolling and varying! 👍
Thank you!
Good job guys being honest about cavern of souls. Pattern of rebirth is really good in my muldrotha deck
I am feeling pretty good about picking up a meathook massacre at 10 bucks before it shot up. I agree that I wouldn't touch it at $32 though. I have a few other decks that would like to have one but I'll wait for it to come down. It's not broken by any means I just like the versatility and having that effect on an artifact which can be harder to remove. It's not a replacement for bastion or zulaport just a complement.
Descendant's Path is such a good card in tribal deck, but it's not optimal, i usually play it with scroll rack or sensei's... i admit its not a 10 dollar card
I think cavern of souls is great when you need a creature to stick to essentially win the game. When I think of CoS, I think play it, name giant, play primeval titan, primeval titan effect and combo to a win. I don’t think there is a creature in EDH that applies in that way. Thassa’s Oracle maybe but that is a two card combo where the other cards isn’t protected by CoS.
Except prime time is banned
@@ACrazedGaming It is in EDH but not in Modern. The combo I am referring to happens in Modern. I'm trying to show how Primeval Titan is more impactful in a format like Modern and not in EDH.
@@hrocxvid ahhh my bad i didn’t understand fully
What is your guys meta exactly? I've been trying to figure it out. It's seems like some tier 2-3 combo's allowed, but has some funky social contract involved with no stacks and no land destruction... so just whatever is fastest wins? It's confusing to see how you value cards sometimes.
I mean no MLD or stax is common place for commander. EDHREC stats show that
Was having a hard time evaluating Liliana, and now I'm probably going to pick one up, thanks guys :)
Great vid! Good work!
I remember whenever they would see Cavern of Souls go for under $40 I would buy my play set so I could play it in my modern decks. Still waiting patiently for that reprint…
Buy one each month reprint will need time i think 🖖
Alhammarrets archive in my oloro build goes crazy
Defiantly a deck that wants it
You fellas were talking about rates with Mind's Eye which will give 5 cards for 10 mana and then you say Search the Premises is better but it's rates are worse at 5 cards for 14 mana? I don't think having a permanent is significant, especially in mono white when you're more than likely going to want to cast mass remove but can't because you're going to be forced to destroy all of your clues.
I personally have found CoS always worth it and all the price points it’s had.
While you CAN most definitely build efficient mana bases on a budget, CoS is a beast of a tribal card.
Making a lot of your splashy tribal creatures that finish the game not able to be countered is enough sometimes on its own but then it can be a rainbow land for all your dudes? Sign me up personally.
What are your thoughts on Shimmer? (From Mirage) I run it in my enchantment deck, and it's a great hate piece against a lot of decks.
Seem like a decent card in certain metas but not a card I would ever play personally
Lotus petal is a black lotus if you are playing osgir 😉
No Cavern of Souls, instead Unclaimed territory or Ancient Ziggurat. I sure hope Meathook goes back down before too long.
I bought a deck the other day a got The Deck of Many Things. Tcg has it at $66. I can't see any use for it other than a jinks deck. Sadly I have a couple other cards that are expensive to by but again no use for them.
For my elves deck I feel like descendants path would be exceptional
Especially for only 3 mana If you get it out turn 2-3 you could really run away with the game
Arid Mesa is def better than Prismatic Vista, purely by being able to fetch dual lands and triomes over basics
Love that shirt Joe
Descendants' Path is good in some tribal decks like Slivers, where it effectively gives you a redraw to a Sliver every turn (since the card revealed by Path goes to the bottom of the library if it's not a Sliver.) Path is also good with changelings like Morophon. It's probably not worth $10 because it doesn't go into a lot of decks, but it is very playable in the right ones.
What if the top card is a nonsliver you wanted to draw?
@@NitpickingNerds :( then you're sad. however the sliver EDH deck typically runs 35+ slivers and just wants to draw and cast as many slivers as possible. IMO the times you fateseal away something like a cyc rift is balanced out by the times you get to free-cast a sliver + the times you fateseal away a land and draw a sliver. it's grindy but good.
I’m in complete and utter disagreement about lotus petal, but then again, I am a cedh player
Prismatic Vista is what the a fair fetchland would look like. If Prismatic Vista and the slow fetches were all that was legal in commander, I wouldn't be upset. Fetchlands are simply too good and accelerate too many strategies.
I want to know your opinion on Jewel Lotus … I am late to the series so I apologize if you guys already reviewed that card.
5:50 I have 1 Cavern of Souls, and 4 (5?) tribal decks. None of my tribal decks play it, as it just doesn't do much in those decks, how much do I actually care about one or two synergy pieces here and there. Where Cavern does do work, is in decks that rely on the commander as the synergy piece, as is the case for my Captain Sisay Deck. I need to make sure she lands in play and starts to grab the pieces i need and Cavern does that for me.
I'm extremely lucky the owner of the LGS I go to got me a meathook massacre when it was like 15 bucks cause everyone was holding them to sell them when it exploded, it's ridiculous
At $15 I would be much happier to buy it
Lotus Petal is amazing in Urza