Saaniha-e-Mashriqi Pakistan: Kia Hum ne Tareekh se kutch Seekha? | Farnood Alam and Pervez Hoodbhoy
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- سانحہ مشرقی پاکستان: کیا ہم نے تاریخ سے کچھ سیکھا؟
کہا جاتا ہے کہ کوئی حادثہ ایک دم نہیں ہوتا بلکہ کئی عوامل برسوں اس کی پرورش کرتے ہیں۔ سانحہ مشرقی پاکستان ہماری تاریخ کا ایک المناک باب ہے۔ جو ہوا ہم اسے بدل تو نہیں سکتے مگر تاریخ سے سبق ضرور سیکھ سکتے ہیں۔ ”بزم تاریخ و ادب“ کے اس سیشن میں ہم جائزہ لیں گے کہ کیا اس سانحے کے باب میں ہم نے تاریخ سے کچھ سیکھا ہے یا نہیں۔
اس فکر انگیز گفتگو کے لئے ہمارے ساتھ موجود ہیں ڈاکٹر پرویز ہودبھائی اور فرنود عالم، جبکہ نظامت کی ذمہ داری عابد میر نبھائیں گے۔
![Natanael Cano - Amor Eterno [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EO4prCs6WpM/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Limbus Company - PV] Chapter.7 - Oblivion](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VUpkXPkvoxU/mqdefault.jpg)
I was listening to this discussion; my father was a freedom fighter of Bangladesh liberation war in 1971. The brutality that we experienced during our liberation war was unimaginable. People could debate on the number but the fact is killing and atrocities committed by Pak Army and its collaborators. I am proud for our freedom fighters and the people who sacrificed a lot for giving birth to a nation. Thank you for organising such a wonderful discussion on it from the alternative (wish whole Pakistan could think like this mass) Pakistani lens. I believe Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy was sad for the massacre and genocide of 1971. Looking forward to having more conversation on it.
One story that filtered through to us in the western wing at the time was that Indian soldiers dressed in Pakistani uniforms were indulging in open atrocities, rape and murder, to give a bad name to the Pakistani contingent. A sad episode in our shared history, whatever the truth of the matter. We hear that Bangladesh is doing well in general. We wish you the best of everything
@RiazHassan: looks like you will NEVER learn! Your people did the brutality and you don't even have the guts to accept it: SHAME!
@@RakeshSingh-gr4mm How do you know? Were you there?
@@riazhassan6570 accept reality. Muslim League was formed in Dhaka. Shekh Muziburahman was one of the prominent leaders of muslim league.
@Riaz Hassan: Sir there is something called documented history. Your answers clearly show that reading is not your strength, let alone the decency and moral strength to accept your mistakes.
By the way: were you there during the Prophets time!?! So why do you believe what he said!?!!!
Yahiya Khan, Tikka khan, Niazi and Bhutto, this four man who was created Bangladesh. Bangladesh hasn't forgotten 1971🇧🇩
Bangla people are hardworking and honest. They didn't belong to West Pakistan to begin with.
@@Be_Rational89 and the irony is, Bengalis were on the forefront in demanding and then creating Pakistan in the name of religion.
Or jin logo ne help kiya aej tum log un ko hi mar raha ho un logo ke kay galti hai kuch to humanity hone chahiye
How can Bangladesh forget 1971? It’s their year of independence 😊
10 lakh auratoh ki izzat luti hai tum log kabhi khush nahi rahoge
I'm from Bangladesh and I'm glad that you have honestly discussed this topic. We also want Pakistan to cope up from all the problems and shine as a nation
Heartening to see this discussion in Pakistan. More such discussion will lead to more reconciliation and fact finding and force Pakistani administration to correct it's course and more importantly do better treatment of their baloch brothers and address their basic concerns.
Pakistani intellectuals
If not all
Still have been discussing to correct the course for decades
Great Analysis I was graduate student in Punjab University, I migrated to USA in 1974. Bengalis are hard working, more religious and more ecnomically strong in USA, Each and Every Army Member should held accountable for the crimes against humanity .
The first step of solving a problem is accepting we have a problem. I am from Pakistan and my heart goes out to all the innocent people who lost their lives in 1971. Happy Independence to Bangladesh. Very enlighten discussion
Respect and honour, such a fruitful discussion. Love for all intellectual from waziristan.
सच्चाई ये है कि पाकिस्तानी इतने मानसिक रूप से गरीब है डॉक्टर परवेज़ सर् को सुनने वाले भी 90% भारतीय ही है।
Bilkul sahi kaha aapne 👍
Yes u are right sir. We 90% Indians always want to understand real problem so that we can find solution. As we give in 1971 to bangali people. 😊😊
yes that's true 👍,
Yeh Satya hai Vats
Being a pakistani we must apologise with Bangladeshi, SM was such a great leader and true patriot ❤
Black hole should also invite 🇧🇩 intellectual in such type discussion.
The best analytical program from Pakistan.
We watch it from India.
Respect for your truthfulness 🙏🙏🙏
I think majority of people who watching this video are indians and not the Pakistanis who should be watching this.
I am Pakistani and i am watching it 🙂
@@selection01 spred with everyone.
They must be watching but not commenting.
Why do Indians watch this platform? Coz India can't imagine having a similar one.
'Pakistanis' r 'dads' of 'Indians' and 'Israelis' thats y these both follow 'Pakistan'. Both hav read stories that when 'armed' 'Bengalis' tried to get 'freedom', 'Pakistanis' 'killed' them, so 'Indians' want to 'kill' 'Khalistanis' and 'Israelis' want to 'kill' 'Palestinians' using their 'Papas' 'ideology'. good job 'kids' haha
Excellent analysis, God bless all of you
The snakes🐍🐍🐍 which Pakistan wanted to bite Hindustan.. is biting it's owner now....
They're literally a failed state now. Got what they deserved.
Farnood Alam comes out a well read, articulate, well informed gentleman. Well done Sir.
Please provide closed captions in English. This platform (The BlackHole) is too important to be kept limited to Urdu.
Good suggestion!
What happened between March 26 & December 16 was perhaps the greatest human tragedy after WW II . Dec 16 was deliverance & victory of that oppressed nation. As a student then, I was following the tragedy unfolding itself through Indian & international media right from the day The Sunday Times carried Anthony Mascerenhas" eye opener. The intelligentia was critical of Indira Gandhi for not doing enough to stop this. The images of emaciated refugees in camps amid dirt and squalor , of bodies strewn in fields & streets, some devoured by dogs, are still itched in my memory. What we need is a honest attempt to understand why & what of this tragedy. I compliment the organizers for conducting a meaningful & dispassionate dialogue. Can't imagine happening in any mainstream channel.
Thanks for giving people awareness about the facts which could never been on main stream media.
🎤
میں تو ہمیشہ
پرویز ہود بھائی
کے لیے یہ دعا کرتا ہوں کہ
اللہ تعالی ان کی اور ان کے خاندان کی خاص حفاظت فرمائے آمین
کیونکہ جس بے باکی، دلیری اور دھڑلے سے یہ شخص بات کرتے ہیں وہ طاقتور طبقوں کو عام طور پر ہضم نہیں ہوتی۔
دعاگو
🇵🇰جرمنی سے پاکستانی مزدور 🇩🇪
Terrific discussion. Inherently honest. My worry is if this honesty spreads to length and breadth of the country, will Pakistan survive, as we know it today. If it doesn't spread, more pains will surely set in. A classic catch 22 situation!!!
Soul searching debate. Farnood aalim and Mr Hoodhbhoy is worthy praising for their efforts to create awareness for creating critical thinking.
We are sorry Bangladesh if you are reading this… long lost brother 😢
Good to see this apology.
How about apologising to your Indian brothers!?! Your grandmother and ancestors faced the brutality of the Islamic marauders and you are a product of that. You are our long lost people: time you give up Islam and become human again.
Regards.
@@RakeshSingh-gr4mm so much hatred for a particular religion? Seriously? People like you made Jinnah carve out Pakistan
@@zaina5569 what a hypocrite! Do you want me to give you the verses of Quran where you find hate against nonbelievers?
@@zaina5569
Jinnah was proven right. Your religious militias and leaders like Modi and Monu Manesar decides how Muslims India live and where they pray.
Why this channel is not getting millions of views i can't understand... Pervez ji is at this point of time most renowned pakistani scientist.. Pakistan have to learn to know who it's actual heroes are..
Good Discussion -love from Hindu & make Pakistan into a secular country.
First you guys worry about your fake secularism.
Yes , bohot Pakistani Khush hain k Bangladesh ham say alag ho gaya , Kam az Kam wo to taraqqi kar raha hay
On Christmas Eve, I finished 3 videos on this channel.
I'm serious when I say I'm making a mental note of the things these people have been discussing here and will hope to implement those in my homeland, India, if I ever get a chance.
Good to see this critical thinking side of Pakistan.
And Parvez sir ka toh bohot purana fan hun main, he doesn't mince his words in calling spade a spade.
Pakistanis are now talking about the importance of an opposition for a properly functioning democracy, as opposed to a dictatorship.............but andhbhakt Indians want a Pkstan-like dharmic rashtra with ZERO OPPOSITION
Nadan Parinde Ghar aa ja!!! You need to return to your original Dharm!!!
@@KingKong-lb3vh This is known as the islamization of Hinduism.
why should india need it when u have all the freedom
Very good told.
Heart touching with reality accepted . Great thinkers pannel. I likes this happy open minded.truth is truth. Love you.
Appreciate the honesty by all. My warm regards to all. Keep it up.
Nice and true analysis by intellectuals
All respect from India, to Dr Parvez HoodBhai
Thank you!
Pakistan aazad nhi hua tha sir, pakistan 1947 se pehale tha hi nhi.
Pakistan 1947 me bna tha.
The azadi is not in reference to partition, but to British colonial rule.
جب پاکستان کی “خرابی” کی تاریخ لکھی جاۓ گی تو جماعت اسلامی اور نواۓوقت کا نام بہت نمایاں ہو گا۔
Creation of Pakistan and Bangladesh are not same because Pakistan was created on the Base of perception that is Muslim can't live in India as equal citizens with equal rights but Bangladesh was created on the Base of reality and fact that means no equal rights exist for bengali people despite of majority population in a country . people of East Bengal paid high price from 1947 to 1971, people of East Bengal was treated as burden of Pakistan. after 75 years Pakistan still now a garrison state and self-destructive state and other side Bangladesh growing very fast and progressive and welfare state.
It's was not perception, hindu pray idol and idol worshippers is haram in islam and is unforgivable, that 's they destroyed all the temple of pakistan.
All well said only remember Bangladesh not take the route of erstwhile Pakistan
What a great moderator, kept the topic going in the right direction, with excellent breakdown of the topic, guided the speakers but mostly kept out. Kudos to him.
I neared General Bazwa’s farewell speech with a particular reference to Bangladesh. If on behalf of Pakistani Army he would have extended an apology to Bengali population, he would have gone in history as a hero. Contrary to that he blamed the civilian leaders for the breakup of Pakistan knowing that it was Pakistan’s army responsible for the breakup.
It is neither army nor politicians. It is the general racist attitudes Punjabis hold vis-a-vis Bengalis. No Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashtun would like to ruled by short, dark, non-Aryan Bengali with different mannerisms. Army, politicians and people were all part of this Bengali genocide. Now that Bangladesh is doing better and Pakistan is not some of the good ones among them are revisiting. Recently when Pakistan was flooded, Bangladesh offered monetary help, Pakistanis denied the help. It is below their racist pride to accept donation from inferior people. Bangladeshis should rise above their religion to see the real factors at play.
You are 100% right Pakistani Army was involved genocide Bangladeshi brothers and sisters
Dr Hoodbhai., in his explanation of the fuse that was lit in then East Pakistan(because of a number of reasons) despite the Bengali activism for the creation of Pakistan forgot to mention another important fact, the 1906 convention in Dacca arranged by the Nawab Salimullah of Dacca which resulted in the creation of the All India Muslim League, later to be known as the Muslim League.
It is probably not mentioned here because to-this-day Pakistani children are taught, in schools, the contributions of Bengalis in the creation of Pakistan. With this fact in the backdrop, the Fall of Dhaka becomes even more tragic and ironic for these children who are still not taught the socio-econmic reasons that led to that event.
@@mejaz8772 thank you for sharing that piece of information.
I think, officially The Black Hole must set up a whatsapp group so that across the subcontinent/ world , a forum is created and constant connection can be created.
Typical Bong deracinated dhimmi
I agree that such a set up would be a great and invaluable conduit for many voices, many different opinions, etc. I sincerely hope that the decision makers at The Black Hole give this idea timely consideration.
A telegram channel is good idea.
@@paul1729 If you have no interest then WTF you doing here hate mongerer?
I agree with the guy from Kashmir. 🎉
If we can care and love a dog, without knowing it's language, then why we cannot live with love and responsibly with other " language speaking" people, as pakistani did in bangla desh.
Nice preaching. Now withdraw the Hindi imposition.
Contrary to this, urdu is the second official language in UP.
Like India Pakistan should encourage people to speak and promote their regional languages like Punjabi,saraiki,Sindhi,Pushto and Balouchi.
Farnood Alam..... best analysis of 1971 history....
Such discussions should be held much more frequent to educate the public.
I don't think that Pakistanis will admit and learn positively from their mistakes but still such critical discussion should go on. Aisi baate sunne me kadvi jaroor lagti hai. pr kuch dwaiya kadvi hi hoti hai.
1400 years history is to be credited with all these happening s,
And that is not said at all, means no use discussing, same things will be repeated.
A punjabi who will stare at his own child for speaking in punjabi......how will he understand the love bengal had for its mother tongue.
Punjabi control and domination of Pakistan is a major Problem for Non-Punjabis people.
Nice
16 Dec is a Victory day of Bangladesh, it's not a independence day of Bangladesh. So happy victory day Bangladesh
The debate was very interesting 🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳
Radical rethinking is needed. It’s imperative.
They never address the main problem is the religion of Islam.
Those who are greedy
Those who kill
Shall regret on the
Day of judgement 1:41:57
chhote ilaqe wala banda was the best in this discussion. nobody could answer him,
Kashmiri boy khud keh raha hai fir bhi Hoodbhoy keh raha hai Nafarat nahi hai. Gajab!
La ilah il Allah Dr Parvez Hoodbhoy Rasulallah
Islam ne tum logon ko jaanvar bana diya hey. Tumhare hi logon ke saat deko army valo ne Bangladesh mey kya kiya. Kya phayda isse mazhab se jo itna galat hey. Daaru peene wala pork khane wala angreji bolnewala musalman kaha se tha.
@@hindustan8796 nehru was also ☪️ muslim
@@karama709 ya i know that. He is the reason why india is STILL a developing country. He was busy with Edwina n other women.
Sar tann se juda ho jaega sirji
Pakistanis know their fault..who is responsible ? What are the remedies..But they can't name the culprit..bcoz they don't have freedom of speech.
What Palestine has to do with Pakistani : logically nothing but it's umma and emotional they are Muslims and we Muslims. But what about Ugurs Muslims? And west Sahara Muslims who are occupied by Morocco? What about Kurds, stateless people? Pakistani.. blank.. we don't know anything about it. These are not issue of importance.. blah blah.. Hippocrates!
@Syedbakeruddin Bekar are Ahmaddiyya are Muslims as per Pakistani constitution?
Do u think they know anything about Palestinian people? They just repeat what ever their politicians, army n mulla tell them. In pak 95% r uneducated or madarasa chaap.
Abid mir is also to be praised for moderating this debate.
India has given constitutional status to 22 local languages in the constitution.
मे भारतीय मुस्लिम हु मेरे लिए भी 1947/एक सानेहा था जेसे आप के लिए 1971/ का सानेहा था
Let’s admit it punjabis believe they’re the most patriotic most elite race in Pakistan 😂
Thank you for Quating
KARACHI
The, lady has asked a very intellegent and smart question ,why Not Bangladesh. Sab chup ho gaye. 😁😁😁😁😁
❤Sakute from India ❤
Muslin League was established in Dhaka in 1906
Pakistan ki azadi ke liye buniadi aham kirdar Bangalion ada kiya thaa. 1857 Mae British key khilaf azadi ki tehreek kay liye hathiar uthaya thaa Bangalion ne. British deprived Bengali peoples from all govt service.Bengal peoples were not disqualified .
The speakers are revealing the truth as honestly as possible. However, the moderator 's voice is too low
i think best action for pakistan would be to separate religion and polity. However unfortunately this factor is never acknowledged in pakistan . imran khan is getting popular because he promises to bring ' riyasat e madina '
And irony is riyasat e madina was worst 7th century barbaric riyasat. 🤦🏻♂️
@@gosliglitzho true.
Do that in India first.
@@hawkingdawking4572 come to india to see for yourself.
@@djawalikar2006
No need for that. The whole world about your fake secularism blackmail strategy.
سانخہ کیسے اور کس کے لیے؟ چھپن فیصد عوام جن کے حقوق سلب ہو رہے تھے ان میں بیداری آئی اور انھوں سے آزادی حاصل کی اور اب وہ بہتر زندگی گزار رہے ہیں یہ سانحہ نہیں جشن ہے
Facts are many but the truth is one Bangladesh hasn't forgotten 1971.🙏😭🇧🇩
😭😭😭😭I am from Bangladesh 🇧🇩
Bangladesh was geographically and historically separate country from present Pakistan. Distance from west pakistan was more than 1600 KM.Everything was separate exept religion Islam. In middle east many arab muslim countries are living separately.
Musla kab tareekh se seekhta ha, zan, zarr, zameen bus ye hi chahyey
Janab
Bangal main asmat dari karney kee maafi kaisey mangain, aaj tak to madiney main al umaiya nay jo asmat dari kee thee aaj tak uskee maafi bhi naheen mangee gaee.
یہ داغ داغ اجالا یہ شب گزیدہ سحر
وہ انتظار تھا جس کا یہ وہ سحر تو نہیں
یہ وہ سحر تو نہیں جس کی آرزو لے کر
چلے تھے یار کہ مل جائے گی کہیں نہ کہیں
فلک کے دشت میں تاروں کی آخری منزل
کہیں تو ہوگا شب سست موج کا ساحل
کہیں تو جا کے رکے گا سفینۂ غم دل
جواں لہو کی پر اسرار شاہراہوں سے
چلے جو یار تو دامن پہ کتنے ہاتھ پڑے
دیار حسن کی بے صبر خواب گاہوں سے
پکارتی رہیں باہیں بدن بلاتے رہے
بہت عزیز تھی لیکن رخ سحر کی لگن
بہت قریں تھا حسینان نور کا دامن
سبک سبک تھی تمنا دبی دبی تھی تھکن
سنا ہے ہو بھی چکا ہے فراق ظلمت و نور
سنا ہے ہو بھی چکا ہے وصال منزل و گام
بدل چکا ہے بہت اہل درد کا دستور
نشاط وصل حلال و عذاب ہجر حرام
جگر کی آگ نظر کی امنگ دل کی جلن
کسی پہ چارۂ ہجراں کا کچھ اثر ہی نہیں
کہاں سے آئی نگار صبا کدھر کو گئی
ابھی چراغ سر رہ کو کچھ خبر ہی نہیں
ابھی گرانیٔ شب میں کمی نہیں آئی
نجات دیدہ و دل کی گھڑی نہیں آئی
چلے چلو کہ وہ منزل ابھی نہیں آئی
In east pakistan there was no desert and hill like West Pakistan.
Even Dr Hoodbhoy is not speaking the ‘truth’ when he contradicted the guy who spoke about PoK and the hatred.
Secular Logo ko sunta hon toh secularism Theak lagta hai aur Religious logo ko sunta hon toh Khulaf e rashdin wala nizam theak lagta hai.
Khudara koi meri confusion door kare buhat confuse hon.
Loads & loads of love for this channel !!!
🧡❤️💛
kuch to hai pakistan me jinhe suna ja skta hai
1:13:42 why don't he answer??
It seems history of 1971 is repeating here in Pakistan and we all know who were behind all bloodshed in Bangal and now again in pakistan.
Just subscribed. So far as we know anything that goes into a Black Hole doesn’t come out, in fact nothing comes out in reality. I hope this platform is not like that.
Excellent
Thou shalt not covet
Thou shalt not kill ❤ 1:41:57
At the present time ALL the Pakistanis need to come together as a matter of collective survival. Turkey was at the same place where Pakistan is today. What happened there wish doesn’t happen in Pakistan as it would be far more destructive and bloody. Just for one reason unlike Turkey we are not monolithic!
59:40 Definition of Beauty with Brain MA
I want to visit The Black Hole... Address plz
seen
East Bengal separated in 1905 for muslim peoples.
Love U all
जिन्नाह ने महजब के नाम पर पाकिस्तान बनाकर बहुत बड़ी गलती कर दिया। इसमें सोचने वाली बात ये है के वो खुद महजबी नही थे। और वो अंग्रेजी में ही तकरीर करते थे। उर्दू शायद नही जानते होंगे।
पाकिस्तान के लोगों को तब भी जानकारी नही थी और अभी भीं हालथ वही है।
Jinnah was MI:6 stooge. Created by Brits only to create pakistan. One need to think how pork eating, wine drinking, cigar smoking, suite wearing jinnah suddenly became hardcore islamist. Once pak was created, brits were done with him and within 6 months he was terminated.
Why Brits wanted to create pak? They were worried about large Akhand Bharat would share borders with other 2 large communist countries China and Russia and wanted to stop this and keep this region in conflict and turmoil.
اور سبق کس کے لیے ؟ جنھوں نے یہ سب کیا اور جو ملوث تھے کیا ان کی زندگی میں کوئی فرق پڑا؟ پاکستان مزید چار حصوں میں بھی تقسیم ہو جائے پھر بھی ڈی ایچ اے کی رفتار میں کوئی کمی نہیں آے گی
"Woh log hi aur hai. Woh hamme se nahi hai... about Bangladeshis. That sort of encapsulates the exclusion & othering, which is fundamental to Islam. Does the practice of Eid-al -Adha where the animal is generally bought days before the occasion, and treated as a pet and even well-fed, before sacrificing it, not contribute to a certain deadening, a callousness of the mind, which contributes to such attitudes to the sufferings of THE OTHER.
Yas
مسلمانوں نے ہندوں سے جدائ لی اور پھرمسلمانوں نے مسلمانوںسے جدائ لی ۔
The fall of Dhaka was due to the Army's role in politics.
Muslim League was formed in Dhaka. Shekh Muziburahman was one of the leaders of muslim league. He was betrayed by western Pakistani muslims.