Do Dirty Cymbals Sound Better? (Before And After)
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- Опубликовано: 14 авг 2023
- Debunking the Age-Old Myth: Are dirtier cymbals truly the key to a richer, more soulful sound, as some drummers (particularly those in the jazz scene) passionately argue? The allure of this notion is undeniably romantic, but what if there's more to the story than meets the ear?
Step into the sonic laboratory with Brian as he conducts an immersive in-studio exploration, pitting the mythical resonance of a dirty mid-60's vintage Zildjian cymbal against the pristine clarity of this same cymbal after an extensive cleaning. This clash of titan tones is bound to leave you intrigued.
But that's not all-prepare to be amazed as Brian demonstrates a groundbreaking solution: Session Ace™ SHINE + Session Ace™ SHIMMER. Witness as years of accumulated grime, dirt, and the very elements that dampen your cymbals' true potential are meticulously lifted from their grooves. What emerges is nothing short of awe-inspiring-a resounding, unadulterated tone that resounds with the pure essence of your cherished bronze.
Let's shatter the illusion together: that layer of well-worn grime masking your cymbals holds no enchanting auditory secrets. In truth, it's been concealing the vibrant, full-bodied frequencies that your cymbals were meant to contribute to your music. The revelation is clear-your cymbals yearn to reclaim their original brilliance and deliver the soundscape they were born to provide.
Curious to witness the metamorphosis? The journey to restoring your cymbals' glistening sheen and authentic voice begins with Session Ace™ SHINE and Session Ace™ SHIMMER. Join us as we embark on a melodic renaissance, where the past meets the present and the true essence of sound is redefined. Your drumming odyssey awaits-let the symphony of discovery commence!
Pick up your own bottle of Session Ace™ SHINE at SessionAce.com/SHINE
HEAR THE SOUND SAMPLES BACK TO BACK: • Which Sounds Better: D...
#cymbalcleaning #dirtycymbal #cymbalcleaner #beforeandafter #howtocleancymbals
Oh, didn't realize how new and low-watched this video was. Really great content, it's people like you who make us all go deeper into drumming and understand it's aspects better.
Thanks for watching and leaving a comment. There are tons of other drum videos here on my channel that I think you'll love, too. Hit that subscribe button and start digging around here on the channel!
It's something that should be obvious when buying cymbals new--just look at them! If you want dark sounding, more "choked" tones, you likely want a dirty cymbal. If you want brighter, more open cymbals, clean is best! However, it's great to see it put into practice and shown so plainly. Thanks for the video!
Yep! You got it!! Thanks for watching and for leaving a note! 🤜🏻🤛🏻
The clean cymbal actually sounds better for certain things, the sound does change a bit but its not something groundbreaking haha. Great video, very informative!
Thanks for watching. Glad you agree in the clean cymbal. Like I said in my video, especially when recording, it’s a “game of inches” sonically. The right sound might only be a 10-20% tweak. So, that’s why I’ve also got 86 snares to choose from. Are they all widely different? Some, but in most cases, the 20% difference in a particular 5x14 brass snare VS a particular 5x14 maple snare is exactly the thing that a drum track needs.
I really could tell the difference.it’s more brighter in sound when cleand ✨✨
Awesome! Mission accomplished. Thanks for watching and for leaving a comment!
The mystery unfolds and a myth falls apart.
Thanks so much for finally bringing out the truth !
I was waiting for such a comparative video for a very long time.
Keep up the great work !
Thanks! So glad you dug this video and got something out of it. More drumming ‘myth busting’ to come! 🤜🏻🤛🏻
Great discussion !
Thanks for watching and for leaving a comment! More to come!
Great stuff Brian! Just found your channel, new subscriber! Thanks!
Thanks for watching, subscribing, and leaving a comment Dale!!
Great video! I have an old ride that I love, but is covered in gunk. I have been nervous to clean it because it is so old. However, this video has me rethinking it for sure. One thing I noticed is the clean cymbal is a little less warm/darker. The clean sound was more jazzy/washy. I don't bring that up as a bad thing, just something I noticed.
For sure, if you clean your cymbal (no matter what kind of cymbal), the result will be a brighter sound. Having cleaned over 200 cymbals in the last 4 years, I can tell you that they ALL had this result to varying degrees. But the benefits of cleaning them, at least in my case, always outweighed anything I might have perceived as a negative. That said, there isn't a cymbal that I've cleaned in the last 10 years that I thought afterwards, "Well, that sounded better before I cleaned it." Not a single one. Be brave!! Clean those plates!!
Just clean it. Even if you want it to be brand new, you won't get it to that. And they get dirty again anyway. Ppl over think this stuff
@@NintenDub I doubt this one will ever again see the 40 years of attic gunk it came to me encased in, but of course, it will eventually get a little dirty again. The point of the video is really that, in the studio, it's a "game of inches" and the difference between "good" and "right" may just be 20 minutes with some cymbal cleaner.
great video!
Thanks for watching and commenting!!!
I hate grime covered cymbals sound. Gotta put those efforts in to make it better! Elbow grease!
Liked & already subscribed 👍👍👍🏆🏆🔥🔥
Thanks so much! (Dirty cymbals are ‘no bueno’) Thanks for watching. I hope you’ll find a bunch of other vids that you like here on the channel!
The increased sheen is awesome. Thats the subtle stuff that helps it cut in a mix.
I agree. It’s that extra little bit of *zing* that immediately helps that cymbal stand out in the mix without additional EQ or volume ramping. Thanks for watching and leaving a comment!!
It's oxidized plus has finger gunk which gets into the grooves. It's dull. Clean is better.
Cleaner is definitely better!! Thanks for watching! 🤜🏻🤛🏻
They aren’t cast iron pans. If cymbals were meant to be seasoned people would be coating their brand new cymbals in oil and baking them in the oven before they played them for the first time lol
The best cymbal cleaner I've ever used is bar Keepers Friend...cheap and effective
Cool. Thanks for watching!
Great job Brian going through this now great examples … hope all is going well …
Thanks Lee!! 🤜🏻🤛🏻
This was an awesome video. I tend to favor cymbals with darker patinas. However, the dirty cymbals that I like are pretty bright/washy when they are clean. I think that the patina takes out some of the upper highs that make for a rich mid/low sound that I like. I like cymbals with a low roar rather than a "wahhh" sound. I owned an old A that had about a medium patina, and I play some HHXs with a light patina. They both project just fine even with a patina. For comparison I also play with unlathed turkish cymbals that I use for jazz and breakbeats since that dry, staccato sound works. I feel like I need to play with more rhythmic agility with dry cymbals because you can't rely on the wall of sound that you get from very washy & bright cymbals. The thin, unlathed cymbals are the best of both worlds. I also watched this clip of Max Roach playing and he was using an 18" A as a main ride. I can't think of many contemporary drummers who would use a ride like that for a jazz session but he made it work! Seeing clips like that make me rethink why I prefer dark, large cymbals. One of the best rides I've owned was a 21" HH Raw Bell Dry Ride. It was heavy and bright but very beautiful regardless of the context; it still sung in low volume situations and had wash to its more bonky crash.
Thanks for watching! The longer I play, the more I’ve gravitated to larger, thinner, darker cymbals. That said, we definitely mythologize the gear that drummers played on back in the 50’s and 60’s. To think that drummers like Max could play an 18” A Zildjian as his ride (with a stick that was probably a little bit warped but most of them were back then) and make it sound THAT good was astonishing!
I subscribed. Recently purchased music nomad cymbal cleaner to give it a shot and see if actually works or helps. Thanks for the video 😊
Thanks for subscribing. Tons more already here on the channel and more coming soon!!
The differnce in sound is over than 20%, more like 40%.
Thanks for the video!
Thanks for watching and double thanks for leaving a comment!! 🤜🏻🤛🏻
So I recently cleaned and polished my new beat hollow logos from the 80’s not because I thought they sounded bad but because I wanted to see them shine. I was surprised by the difference in tones. They almost sounded quieter but more full bodied and complex with a sparkle to them vs the bolder, dirty cymbal. Both sounded good but I prefer them polished up. I’m glad I did it
Hang on to those! Especially cleaned up, they are very sought after around here!
Soooo... cleaner definitely sounded better. But honestly, this freaking kit and the man playing it sound great.
Thanks for those kind words, Bryce. Makes me even happier that we agree on which version sounds better! 🤜🏻🤛🏻
I’d really like that cymbal
Thanks! Me too! Just used it on another batch of recordings today.
I love the darker tone of a well used, aged cymbal. My 18" Zildjians Crash and 20" Zildjians Crash-Rides from the 1970's have a nice dark patina on them. No dirt, just played and aged over decades. I wouldn't clean them if you paid me top dollar. However, after cleaning your cymbal , it was more aligned tonally with your newer cymbals.
The great thing about this method is that it doesn’t really mess with the patina of the aged metal itself. Just pulls all the gunk and grit off the cymbal & opens up the tone. And yep, those early 70’s Zildjians are quite special. I have a few in my studio inventory.
Don't need to use abrasives to get green rust off, there's chemical substances that do that, then polish afterwards
Biggest mistake most drummers make is to use abrasive cleaners. That Session Ace SHIMMER. Product does a great job of getting the “greenie meanies” off without being abrasive to the cymbal’s surface.
+ you surely feel better playing a better looking cimbal
Well… it almost goes without saying, right? 😉🤜🏻🤛🏻
I don't care what other brands of cymbal hack tips does for brilliant or natural finished cymbals.. This is it. It's the perfect cleaner method for both for sure! You have made it!
Thanks! Always glad to help! What are your favorite cymbals to play?
@@BrianStephensOfficial mostly Zildjian K 20 Custom Dark rides, K con Bounce ride & their 17inch K sweet crash, Dark thin Crash etc. Anyhow they're good.
I'm looking into custom ordering rides from individual cymbal smiths instead of factory made cymbals. Kinda switching over to American-made custom order nowadays
GREAT video Brian! For me the clean one gets the gold star sounds great!
Awesome!!! Glad you could hear a noticeable difference! Thanks as always for watching and leaving your 'two cents', Paul!!
@@BrianStephensOfficial absolutely!
I noticed that the dirty one had a bit more attack than the clean one.
I personally prefer hearing the individual hits rather than it being one long sustained sound (except when I have to do a roll). Would gaff tape shorten the sustain and also bring back the attack, or only shorten the sustain?
And a question unrelated to cleaning: one of the cymbals in our band has an uneven spot at the underside, right at the edge (it's not a crack, but it feels like a bump, clothes catch on to it when I'm setting up). Do I have to start looking for a replacement, or do I not have to worry because it's most likely not going to crack?
You hear more attack because the sustain on the dirty cymbal is muted. A little waffle of gaff tape would essentially bring that sound back on the cleaner cymbal.
Not sure about that spot in your cymbal but usually that sort of thing is trouble just waiting to happen, especially if you hit pretty hard.
@@BrianStephensOfficial Thanks :)
I'm in a windband as AUX percussionist, so no need to hit the cymbal like a metal drummer does... Just some rolls with soft mallets (sometimes I have to go loud though), and the occasional hit (in music where I don't have time to grab the cyms à 2, because having to play another instrument right before. That's often with wooden stick, but again, not really hitting hard)
Does anyone have tips for permanent fingerprints? I bought a used set, and I can't get rid of the baked in prints
I’ve never seen “baked in prints” on cymbals, but you might want to try the Session Ace SHIMMER product. That stuff’s strong enough to clean boat hulls.
Nice topic for a video. Although that particular cymbal doesn't do it for me, there is absolutely a brightness that showed up after you cleaned it up. I almost liked it more when it was dirty. Probably because it was darker and had a bit more presence. I assume different cymbals will produce a different result when going from dirty to clean.
Good stuff.
Having done this to more than 50 cymbal at this point, the general trend shunts towards more sustain and a return of the higher frequencies. In most of the cymbals that I’ve done this with, they end up sounding better on the recordings as a result. (Flies completely in the face of all of the current trends, I know)
This particular cymbal is a bit of a “one trick pony”. It was a gift from a good friend and that was the reason it ended up getting used in this video. (He wanted me to make some content with it)
Since we filmed this, it’s showed up on about 11 or 12 recordings (mostly soundtrack cues) and was perfect for those uses. That said, it’s not one of my main “Go To’s” like the Paiste 22” Forumla 602 Modern Essentials
Ride, but it’s got its own thing happening that can be quite useful.
I have some dark rides and crashes how should I clean those non brilliant cymbals ? Thanks
Same product that I used in this video will work for those cymbals.
Very interesting and enlightening.
If I have to say something negative though… the point of the exercise, with sound clips and all, could have been made in half the time…
Then what you’re looking for is this version of this video: ruclips.net/video/sGr25p5jxto/видео.html
That is a great sounding 60s A.
Thanks for watching & leaving a comment !! The wonderful sounding cymbal has made its way onto a few different recording sessions since that video was made, including some soundtrack cues for a movie that’ll be out in 2024!
I just ordered the cleaning set.
Thanks so much!! That’ll go out tomorrow!! Enjoy!!
They are cymbals. Not cast iron skillets. Keep em clean for god sake lol.
Best reply yet. So good that *I* wished I’d come up with it!! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣🤜🏻🤛🏻
Brian you're amazing
Thank you, Mark. I appreciate you for taking the time to hang out, watch the video, and leave a comment!
I wondered if rinsing with water would be okay or not, if would rust it out or something
Water won’t rust your cymbals, especially if you dry them off very well.
hey definitely on that ride that you cleaned Please try not to TIGHTEN down so much
you can lower it and get it little more keven and take the the whole top off
>> also the tighter You tighten down the easier the cymbal can Crack and you will get some hole 🕳️ cracks too
just do not know why you learned this unfortunate & Unnecessary practice
BUT THANK YOU SO MUCH i do love this video Great content and how you talk how you put this video together
hey some people buy super dry cymbals that sounds like it was even more gunk on Lol
Ok brother peace ☮️
Thanks for watching. (Plenty of answers in previous comments. It’s not as tight as it looks on video. 28+ years, thousands of gigs and recording sessions with no cracked or key-holed cymbals but thanks for worrying about me)
@@BrianStephensOfficial ok 😁
I liked clean but I felt your results could’ve been diminished by how tight the ride was to that stand. Loosen it up!
I’ve gotten that same comment a LOT but there’s nothing super tight about that cymbal tilter. If you take a look at my newest video, a completely different cymbal on the same stand moves a whole lot (Paiste 2002 Big Beat Cymbals - Studio Test Kitchen: Ep.4
ruclips.net/video/7U7x_bTHfOM/видео.html)
Anyway, thanks for watching and for leaving a comment!!
Using a full rack, only to have a tom in a snare basket, is the most cursed setup ive ever seen
I use the rack because I’m changing kits out here at my studio almost daily, depending on the recording session. (Mixing and matching between 14 different kits and 86 snares.) With the rack, I can go from a simple 4-piece kit to a full on 8-piece kit in under 5 minutes. Need to swap out a 20”x16” kick drum for a 24”x14” (or vice versa) without moving anything else? That rack makes it a breeze. Definitely not doing it to try and win any style points.
I do have a couple of 13” vintage rack toms with no Tom mount on them. Hence the snare stand option.
Maybe I should do a video to talk about that? I’ll make sure to tag you.
@@BrianStephensOfficial Hell yea. No, that makes total sense, and i agree with the logic, its just CURSED lol. You should do one!
I think a clean cymbal makes some people feel better so they will sound better to them.
I guess "better" is subjective.
Can be. But in this case, for me, they just sounded better in those music tracks after cleaning them. (And having played on more recording sessions than I can count over the last 30 years, most of the folks I’ve worked for would have probably said the same thing.)
Dirty sounds better recorded. Clean sounds better live. Just my experience. I want cleaner brassier tones live, but deeper subdued tones on a recording. Pure personal preference.
Ultimately, personal preference is what this video is about. For me, the cleaned cymbal sounded better in the mix.
I really wished you hadn't talked over the entire A/B comparison.
Well, that’s why there’s a version that’s just the audio samples: ruclips.net/video/sGr25p5jxto/видео.htmlsi=VYXMW2EqV7vQlkpR
Would be great to get A / B reference without voice overs on top of the playing...
I happen to have one of those sitting right here: Which Sounds Better: Dirty Or Clean? (Audio Samples Only)
ruclips.net/video/sGr25p5jxto/видео.html
@@BrianStephensOfficial Great! Have to listen to that!
@@BrianStephensOfficial OK! Did A/B listening (using Genelec studio monitors) and the result seems to be quite big. Especially the bell seems to ring a lot clearer. Thank you!
Don't clean your door handles or doors near the handle for a year... Yeah the door works but geezes... you have to do maintenance and cleaning on EVERYTHING YOU OWN so just do it
I agree. Thanks for watching and leaving some comments.
It's a matter of appearance. I will wgaer that if the player or listener were blinded the sound difference would be indistinquishable . In short, there is no real difference. Some enterprising videoer should do a blinded test video.
Feel free to watch this version with your eyes closed (ruclips.net/video/sGr25p5jxto/видео.htmlsi=r-ZfqnZlOT4-Yrwg). It’s only the performances and none of the talking. I’ll guarantee that, if you’re listening with a set of studio monitors or some really good home stereo speakers, you will hear the difference. That’s the reason for the video. Your opinion may differ about which one you like better, but there’s definitely a difference.
Do people really think once you sink a cymbal back in with the rest of the kit, and other instruments, it's gonna bring out _more_ of its quality and character?? 🤔😂🤷♂️
Not really sure how to answer that question except with a question. Have you recorded in the studio much?
Any change will make a difference, sometimes small & other times significant. And the longer you do this stuff, especially at a level where people are paying you money to do it, the finer your hearing becomes tuned to notice those differences.
When Bob Gatzen originally designed the Evan’s EMAD bass drum resonant head, he lined the port hole with some thin Mylar (same material they make the ring tray out of on the batter side of those heads). Why? Because it dropped the fundamental pitch of the drum by almost a complete half step. He found this out when he noticed that simply having a mic cable touching the vent hole, as it ran from the mic inside, added enough mass to the head to cause this pitch drop. How many professional recording drummers, producers, and engineers can hear a quarter to a complete half step in that low register? A lot actually.
The drum sound on any professional recording is the sum total of hundreds of tiny decisions. Change any one thing and you will change the outcome. Just how much always remains to be seen (or in this case, heard) in the final mix.
I play primarily metal and hard rock .. I prefer the old 60's 70's zild. Avid. CRASH-- actually, dirty sounds better ( in my opinion) the darker sound and quick decay works well with the style. that said.. for hats splashes and accent I do prefer clean.. the cut is brighter ... Thanks for the vid...its the style of music and sound your lookin for... break a leg!
Thanks for watching and for taking the time to leave a comment. There’s tons of other great drum vids on my channel for ya!
Great feel and enjoy the content, but that has to be THE WHITEST " modern hip hop" beat I've ever heard 😅
Thanks for watching and commenting (and you can thank Epidemic Sound for any/all of those tracks… white or otherwise 😉)