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Thank you for your testimony on Bethel. I have been n 3? different groups that were controlled,so-t-speak, by rules or one man or a few men. I am currently n fellowship wth a group that are pro Bethel. I also question the music, the spirit(s) & atmosphere of the meeting. I appreciate the leader,but concerned abt the theology of the music. Pray for me. Rbn
@@robinharper2838 WALK AWAY NOW IT'S BETWEEN YOU AND OUR LORD GOD CHRIST JESUS NOT YOU AND A GROUP OF SPONGES YOU ARE TO AWAKE AND AWESOME NOW TO GET ALONG WITH PEOPLE WHO AREN'T THE SAME WHEN THEIR ALONE AND REALLY RUDE IN A GROUP
@@robinharper2838 You need to get out of there...I have a lot of experience with these people...I am an "older" person now...I would say, "Get out of there before you really get warped." It doesn't get any better "with time."
@@robinharper2838 Sometimes we can be "swayed" because we respect the "leaders" or if we have friends there...That was my experience, but I HAD TO get out for my own sanity...!!!.......
What an amazing episode. However, I wish you guys would have let Lindsay speak more instead of routinely interrupting her and going on long expositions of your own thinking. She is an extremely bright and capable speaker and she didn't need you guys trying to direct her thinking. Her story was compelling and she was clear in its telling and describing her thinking and emotions. To me it was very frustrating to have you guys jumping in and taking over the conversation and interrupting the flow of her story. Sometimes the best interviews are the ones where the interviewers say almost nothing.
TRUTH!! I go to Bethel. I know Bethel has many problems, just like any other church and any other pastors. It has still taught me so much about the Bible and relationship with Jesus. BUT, it has not given me salvation, it has not given me Christ. That is something everyone has to do internally. No church can save you. :)
The church of Jesus is really His people..He is the head and Christian's are His body...i found Jesus and His power thru the Holy Spirit but not in a church...the churches out there are teaching things that the Lord says are not from Him and they do not help someone in spiritual battles...church has become a business...sad but prophetic...stay in the Word of God to stay in Jesus truth.... desperate people are looking for help they know about Revelations but still are putting off the Word of God to glorify themselves...I have been in many of these churches who preach prosperity and do nothing to expose sin and lead people to healing from the Lord ...I have seen the beast standing in the temple of the Lord hasn't anyone else seen this ? Thx for waking people up...by sharing God's working in your life.
Yes I follow Apolus, I follow Paul, I follow Joyce Meyer, I follow pastor such and such. Did they die for you?. We want a king just like the Israelites did. God gave them Saul think about it. Don't settle for following anyone but the King of kings Jesus and him alone.
I grew up going to Bethel, and a smaller church with the same beliefs. It wasn’t until I just watched this video that I realized, everything I’ve been taught, everything that made me so uncomfortable about God, isn’t true. Thank you for this, I feel like I have to relearn everything from now on. Thank you for opening my eyes
Praise God, that He opened your eyes!!! But by the way, being baptized in the Holy Spirit isn't wrong, just some of the experience chasing "signs and wonders", not sign and wonders themselves.
I wasn’t in a cult church I’d say, but a rigorously religious one, and I had the same experience. I had to re-learn Christ once I finally left, and thankfully entered a church that has been very kind and helpful to me.
I hope this comment reaches Lindsey Davis. This is not a plug for her book. I personally met the author. "Walking with the enemy" A testimony by Cathy Read. The first cult Lindsey was a part of was the spirit of anti christ. Now when it comes to Bethel they basically steal from a ton of "ministries." I have met some of the people behind it or were involved with it. I can explain it from Benny Hinn to the Toronto outpouring and the "ministries" behind it. I can explain it. I may write a book debunking it all. As far as doctorine goes. I can even explain why they built their relics museum. When it comes to grave sucking even King David prayed and asked God to keep those in the grave from Speaking. In the book of Romans the bible says not to say in your heart to say who is going to ascend or descend. They lay on the graves of precieved saints. Who is to say famous so called Christians from the past didn't fall away? I believe the Holy Laughter movement actually comes from the idea that the saints will laugh after the lost are cast into hell. But it's premature judgment and sensationalism. Seducing spirits may actually come from accursed angels; Benny Hinn. It is Like the one that is feeding the Mormon cult, it is first peaceable and gentle but not easy to entreat because there is hatred behind it. There are two reasons Mitt Romney lost to Obama. Fighter verse. "Greater is He that is in me than he that is the world" And sometimes when it is a false prophetess you may have to say she the is in the world. Itching ears. Spiritual abuse. And dabbling. Spiritual idolatry. It is the apostasy. They say that the church in Africa is an inch deep and a mile wide lacking knowledge regarding spirits. People perish because of a lack of knowledge.
Hah, that's a good one and generally great advice. I don't doubt that God does occasionally speak directly to people, I've seen enough sincere testimonies that don't end up like the possession freakshows at Bethel. God also speaks out loud through people or whatever media. When you get that answer, you know you got the answer you'd been seeking.
@@saintejeannedarc9460 Hi...I sort of disagree a wee bit...Ya see God is speaking only truth, and only truth can be found in "His word", But that truth needs to be correctly defined and accurate. For example John 3:16 ...that "Whosoever" believes in him...Well, on that day the folks saying Lord, Lord will have certainly believed in him prior to hearing the next words of depart from me. The demons believe and tremble (They're actually more respectful than we are at times...at least they tremble) and mental assent to the belief in the historical Jesus in and of itself will not save. My point is that what we hear through our own minds, media, and other people is suspect. As peter (who witnessed the ressurected Christ and the assension ) said, Aside from his experiences, We have a far more reliable and sure word of prophecy. In short...If you want to hear God speak...Read your bible. Aided by the Holy Spirit & diligent study we can accuratekly "Hear what God is saying to us"
@@azbugman1 I understand and mostly agree. Perhaps I'm not explaining well and let me make clear that I'm not a supporter of Bethel type manifestations and spent years warning people and disproving this demonic movement w/ the word as well. I'm just saying that I've had many questions to Jesus about the word, doctrines I maybe don't understand or personal guidance. The answers can come from places other than the direct word. They need to not contradict the word, of course, but the answers can come from various places or through different people. Hopefully that makes more sense.
@@saintejeannedarc9460 Hmmm, I think i get your point...God says that even the heavens declare (speak of) his Glory, and God does work through providence, and other people...I agree. The only caution I would have for anyone is to label the conclusions you draw because of any of those things as suspect & subject to inspection based on Gods word. I'm basically lazy, and if I have to constantly return to Gods word to check out everything i do, say, or hear, then I'd rather just start there and set up camp on that spot. lol Thank you for the interaction, I appreciate the dialouge.
As a former Jehovahs Wittness it took me years to see it as a cult. I was disfellowshipped and it was the best thing to ever happen to me. I was super involved but always questioned and had doubts. God took me out of there and forgave me and I now serve Him in the right way!
@Amanda Hanson if you lack knowledge about scripture you are no match for them. I am not trying to be mean but I would know the Christian standards and the bible first. ❤️
I came out of Occult/New Age, even worked as a psychic, when I recommitted my life to Christ. I was so shocked at the lack of discernment in the churches and amongst Christians. People think if it's Occult connected it's all spooky and in your face. It's much more subtle than that but she's spot on, if you're well founded in the Word of God then you'll know the difference. God gave us brains and we can trust knowledge of God's Word to show us what's true and what is false.
Jesus said my sheep know my voice and will not follow another. This is very true. That small voice in u will always let u know something isn't right and if that voice is jesus, it will get louder.
Seriously, I couldn't agree more. EX: Satan appearing as an angel of light. Now, is that with the horns and pitchfork in your face? More like the depiction in "The Devil's Advocate". Also, where the rubber meets the road is so often in the realm of Ethics. EX: one Sister figuratively eats meat sacrificed to idols, another Brother can't go near it. The former is stronger, the latter is weaker. No sweat. Don't do it around the weaker brother, BUT the weaker brother must strive to NOT be filled with the Flesh in pride, a haughty eye, gossip, playing God in total judgment. This happens in anything from how we go about our days, use of time, entertainment, hobbies, interests, engaging with the world, views on and use of money. Many areas of life. And just prefacing a statement with "The Bible clearly says..." is not a slam dunk accurate statement. Greater discernment usually comes with time / life / trial & error / humility / context / a view of a BIG God, and especially not making God into our own image, so to speak. ( A gifted prophetic sister at my old church community many years ago once prayed for me and received some "words". I tell ya, the first half of what she prayed / prophesied applied, was accurate, but the second part was her rambling and didn't truly apply to my situation in life. I thanked her for the prayer, then committed the Unpardonable Sin: I gave her feedback over the First 1/2 On and Second 1/2 Off prayer / prophecy from her. She smiled briefly, then it vanished into the look of one deeply offended, almost like she was scorning me. HOW DARE I TELL HER THAT SHE WAS OFF IN ANY WAY?! LoL. Well....maybe she isn't a prophetess. No big deal, keep learning and growing. Isn't remaining humble a foundation to Christianity? I'm very intuitive / prophetic as well, but there have been too many times where I thought I "knew" what was going on, YET...turned out to be wrong. It's sobering, a good reminder of humility, but shouldn't be so "offensive"...unless my pride is involved. If so, then good that it takes a beating again. )
Some of these groups seem very New Age to me, and you're right - unless it's very openly dark etc they just don't discern anything. I've found several of the christians who are so keen on all this very easy to manipulate and deceive. Just fabricate a story, or 'an encounter with Holy Spirit ', or make up a problem - and they're hooked, keen, believing every word. Now, if I, a christian with no evil intent can do this, then what about someone with a dark spiritual agenda? These people are so very lacking in spiritual discernment and wisdom, I see them as unsafe.
nts Add a public comment... SHELBY HAMBRIGHT To All reading this post. The Gifts are not what the Holy Spirit has ..they are WHO HE IS..HIS VERY CHARACTER AT WORK. He uses his character to flow through His children to the body to comfort, encourage and give boldness to witness.PERIOD. It is not a magic show or a badge of Holier than though. Yes people fake, yes people seek a sign but not the relationship. Yes this woman was wrong to say "make it up" Yes the video poster was wrong to say all Gods children can not phrophesy. But LET EVERY MAN AND WOMAN NE A LIAR BUT MY WORD BE TRUE. The bible says as Paul is recorded to say"EAGERLY SEEK THE GIFTS ESPECIALLY PROPHESY. Not for the gifts sake, not for our egos sake, not for a show, but to encourage, and embolden believers to witness. The bible says now we see through a cloud darkly. Phrophesy will cease when we see HIM FACE TO FACE and we will know HIM even as we are known. It is wrong to throw out Gods word based on the actions of people. Do not accuse a whole group of people based on your experience.That is biased and stereotyping. Instead I encourage you to FORGET WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD ABOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT AND FIND where God gives to believers in Christ His Holy Spirit to those who ASK HIM.And that when Paul went to Cornelius home that was already a Christian friend he asked Cornelius "have you received the HOLY SPIRIT SINCE YOU BELIEVED" if Paul is wrong here through out ALL Paul said. The Baptism christ received when he was dipped in water is available today after your salvation forgiveness experience. The gifts ARE still in operation and fakes and thrill seekers are nothing new. Not a sign of the times it happened back then and will.continue until He takes all His children Home. Be careful .Guard your words.Thus saith the Lord. Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness.
What she described about them getting her to try and “see her angels” sounds exactly like what I did when I learned mediumship and chanelling. Thank God He saves 🤍
It's because it is mediumship under the label of "christian." It sounds like a Reiki technique. You have to be careful. There's guinine gifts from God; however, there's also great occult deception. Just read the bible & pray.
@@DavidRomero-vj4ld spot on. Ive been a "Reiki master and teacher 3rd and 4th grade in the line of Mikao Usui". I did channeling, angel encounters, all the crazy demonic stuff they celebrate at Bethel Church. Its absolutely, exactly the same. The teaching, the practises, the spirits, the sensations, the warmth, the supernatural experiences, the being fooled- and the one Jenn Johnson declares to be "silly, funny, sneaky, blue" is actually occuring violet and his name is the name of an old alchemist, connected to free masonery, which is as mask again. (Lord St. Germain/Lord Well done). Its a trap of Satan, and i will wonder till the last day whether Bill Johnson has been trapped and blinded and fooled- or if he is a very clever Reiki Master mocking christians. I dunno. I really dunno. Its up to Jesus to know his heart and true intentions. I cannot see into his true motives at all. I know, those spirits of "ascended masters and angel energies" really draw you in and totally destroy your possibilities to see the truth. And yes: There are genuine gifts from God. But they are all pointing to the authority of Jesus Christ alone and NEVER contradict the bible nor fulfil selfish striving for exaltation.
So what do you think about Elisha praying "Open his eyes, Lord" over his servant Gehazi? Was that also mediumship or channeling? No, they are completely different. Her roommates were not praying that she would host angels in her body or have angels speak through her mouth.
@@DavidRomero-vj4ld You also have to be careful about the out--of--control shaking that goes on in Churches like Bethel...This reminds me of the "Kundalini" stuff that some Hindus and Sufi's do.......
I've lived in a very similar cult and it was rough. The social pressure to have the "signs" is so intense. I'm so glad I could get out and can enjoy the freedom in Christ that comes through the gospel.
You one of those poor folks who couldnt speak in tongues? I never understood that about the UPC. Its just one sign. Paul himself says not all speak in tongues. Love is the greatest gift.
Yes just as Simon (Petros the small stone said later when was able to allude to the miracle He saw when Jesus transfigured Himself to have a conversation with Moses and Elijah and God the Father said to all 3 fishermen including James and John. Listen this my son in whom I am well pleased . The Father reminding them Your Father in heaven is setting up this vision He shared with them. Peter tells us far greater then any miracle is the Word of God and His Commands . God was showing His kingdom coming to earth and how the scenario of Moses and Elijah who held fast to every word that came from the mouth of God is how we obtain the mind of Christ as His every Word is the bread of Life . The Logis become flesh and dwelt among us. Miracles of God are not secondary but miracles is not foremost for God to call and choose justify and sanctify on earth. We do not believe in miracles nor perform miracles to become a heir to Gods kingdom. We believe in Jesus who is the Way the TRUTH and Life eternal. We all do not do miracles but we all plant seeds of truth according to the Word of God and not our precepts that always turn to self indulgence. The worst sermon I ever heard Bill Johnson make and all of his sermons nauseate me though I have no anger towards him is when he did a commentary on John Chapter 6. He completely misconstrues the meaning of the phrase when Jesus say you must eat my flesh and drink my blood which taken literally is shocking but when Jesus walks up to those who were murmuring within earshot . Jesus said my words are spirit. Meaning I’m not speaking in the tangible . The flesh profits nothing. Obviously Jesus did not say here bite my forearm and begin eating my flesh and drink my blood. Of course many had heard enough sermons from Rabbi Jesus that would never even teach to consume the blood of an animal . So Jesus immediately told them I am speaking figuratively. The Passover supper Jesus had with His disciples breaking bread and sharing the cup of wrath with his chosen showing them what His body would go through as He would defeat death and sin for mankind proving the agape love ❤️ that no one but God could do in the flesh . God does not resemble mankind . Mankind is made in the image and likeness of God.
This young woman has a story that needs to be heard! She can speak to her generation with wisdom beyond her years! I pray for open doors for her and that nothing will blindside her!
I feel this. I grew up charismatic/Pentecostal and went to IHOP and their conferences and had friends went to their school. I always thought I was less spiritual and/or less anointed because I wasnt receiving visions or new revelations like everyone else. I felt like God didn't love me because he wasnt giving me what all these people around me were getting. Then I unknowingly ended up at a Baptist bible college where my world was flipped upside down. Praise God for protecting me from all that. When I was duped into thinking I was not loved by God, I found out that God was protecting me His daughter from falling into further deception and heresy! Praise the Lord that He is faithful to call and keep His children!
Thats silly...your bible says Love is the greatest gift. God protected you from your own hurt feelings. You were walking in a state of greater gifting and blessing than the people you wanted to be like. Myself I believe in all the gifts but I also know my bible says the GREATEST gift is LOVE :-)
Rick Warren , in his book The Purpose Driven Life, said that God uses your experience even more than the Bible to teach you things. I immediately was bothered by this statement when I read it. There was no way that could be true since my experience does not lead me to truth. Only God’s Holy and infallible Word leads me to truth. My experiences must be tested by his word. So this is an example of what you were saying about this type of teaching that pays lip service to the scriptures while undermining them in these subtle ways (which really are not that subtle and should be discerned by Christ followers). Thank you for these broadcasts that are so helpful and informative.
Very well stated. Rick Warren is more subtle in his heresy and says a lot of true things but it is odd that once you analyze a few false teachers, you can usually detect most any false teacher within a minute of hearing them spew their lies and manipulation.
It is almost scary hearing this testimony because I can almost relate to some of the things that she is describing. I came really close to embracing the ultra-charismatic prophetic practices, but it all lead to confusion and manipulation. I give thanks to God for leading me back to his word!!!
I STUDY God's Word. And I do work in the prophetic. I am still young in this gift, however, when God uses me, most people will look at me know ask...How did I know that? God is good!
I enjoyed watching this, especially Lindsay's continued pressing for truth and rejection of falsehood. Most 18 year olds are not in this place I suspect.
God began opening my eyes about Bethel last fall when I was listening to their music to worship. It wasn't just them he was opening my eyes about it was also hillsong and Joyce M.
Honestly I’m coming out of such a scene. So I’m currently a boarder at my school and due to covid none of us are allowed to leave the school and go to our respective churches. So to combat that, a few Christians started a prayer group (I started boarding at the beginning of 2021 so I found it already established). What they taught or what was the norm there is completely different to what I learn at my actual church. Like completely different. At my church the teachings are all based on scripture and whilst I do have to learn to place what they say against scripture for myself, that’s what I believe. Literally almost everything she went through, we have done those things. I have personally done these things; the “holy” laughter, the violent vibrations, the visions, being drunk in the spirit and even at some point “imitating God” (tbh I don’t even understand what that means anymore but at the time I copied what I thought was holy and what I thought meant you were in the spirit and God was working through you. All these things I had seen and wanted to emulate. This included dancing around in a specific way, which was something I had learned about in a conversation; being an ‘oracle’; and moving around and falling over several times) My heart hurts just thinking about all the things I’ve done. All the times when there has been questionable and just odd things that I chose to ignore like: -The fact that Bible study died out a loooong time ago -People felt so out of place as if they weren’t good enough which resulted in them leaving -Us never ever sharing the true Gospel. Not even majority of the sermons we watched. -That insane “supernatural” things would happen at our worship nights and personally I felt a secret pride and superiority over people that chose not to attend. And I felt that way even about everyday meetings -The fact that I felt unworthy literally 90% of the time -And now (what God has revealed) is that we were constantly chasing something supernatural.Like a gift or ability. Constantly trying to prove you’re a Christian by manifesting these gifts. By proving your faith through works and what you can do and which gift you have. -New people RARELY ever coming and when people come to watch the Sunday service, they leave halfway (which broke my heart). If you have no clue who Jesus is and you come to see people dancing like crazy in the front and doing their own thing (which must seem super “spiritual”) whilst you have no clue what’s going on, it’s lonely. I’ve had conversations and overheard conversations whereby people avoid the group because they feel so ostracised and judged. It hurt me. ……………. Literally one thing I remember is the aim to walk in the spirit but not as the Bible says, but basically walk in a different realm other than reality. Like you should walk and see angels and be separate from reality. I was there. I had “seen” angels and a which standing over someone. I don’t want to believe any of that anymore. I actually started being skeptical of the spiritual deepness (for lack of a better word) of my actual church. Which just shows how far I had been pulled from true doctrine. At that group I relied on emotions and experiences, and God helped me see that. Now I’ve been chosen to be a leader and I know that He has shown me these things not just for me but to share the truth and expose what is in the darkness, as she said, using scripture. I’m so grateful that God showed this to me because I’m not alone and we have to do this for His Kingdom. May He give me courage. I know this has been soooo long but I had to get it off my chest because I can relate so hard.
Im watching videos like this because my parents and brother are all in on bethel. I was raised in the assembly of God church and was always told about how great bethel was. My family moved to austin and joined their church. Earlier this year my mom was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and, thank you Lord, she is in remission after undergoing chemo. During that time i struggled with faith because they would tell me that its God's will that everyone be healed by faith. I then learned that Bill Johnson's wife recently died of cancer. I panicked because it meant that if my mother died, maybe it was because i lacked faith. That lead to many prayer sessions where i cried my eyes out for guidance, because i believed if my mom died, that my faith would die with her. But it was also during that time when i began to question the rationale and began to learn to rely on scripture. So now i struggle with how best to minister to them when bethel's grip is so ironclad and was enlarged with my mother going into remission. So now i study the word to prepare myself for spiritual warfare. Pray for me and my family.
I understand they won’t do the kind of interviews that would expose them...watch Bethel on RUclips, listen to the podcasts, you’ll see and hear it is not the word from Christ. In fact bethel pastors don’t even preach with an open bible, that in itself is a huge red flag.
Maryam Maghen Bill doesn’t have to answer to ppl like Lindsay, cultish, you or anyone in religious bondage and lies. He has God and the fruit of the Spirit of the multitudes of ppl touched by the Holy Spirit to justify His harvest into God. He and anyone else have more important things to do for God than to pay any attention to religious devils.
I remember Rodney Howard-Brown promoting the "Spirit of Laughter" through the churches in the 90's. I called out my pastor when this took place at the church I was attending and was told I did not have the gift of discernment, so I could not possibly know what God was doing. My family and I left that day and never returned. I have been very vocal in my area about cultish teachings and the perverting of God's teachings and his word. Keep doing what you are doing!
Ummm...how was it a "teaching"? Secondly, if the Spirit of God made them laugh in joy,why are you against that? I'm really just curious. Reasoning being is in late 2005 I met a true prophet who spoke at my church. Her name was Mrs. Pearl she was about a 40 year old petite African American woman. Two minutes into her sermon her voice changed and the Spirit of God fell on her MIGHTILY. She spoke and knocked EVERYONE ( almost 300 people that day) to the floor. You could feel this Spirit of God EVERYWHERE in the church. She prophesied a lot,to different people in the crowd then called for anointing oil and began laying hands on people. I went up three separate times. The first time she touched me I just felt : Love... It was a memory from my youth when I had been about six years old. On that day I was riding around with my mom,and sister and her friend and her kids in her mini-van we were in a subdivision near the border of the town they lived and rounded a corner and when we did I saw the largest wall of honeysuckles I had ever seen in my short life. The HOLY Spirit had touched me that day,but I never knew it. Till that prophet laid hands on Me. I just felt love and remembered the memory. It was God. He had been there all along. I shouted "I remember YOU!" The second time I fell down when she laid hands on me and all I felt was just pure happiness. The THIRD TIME when she laid hands on me I fell down again and I laughed. It was like a child-like joy. There was nothing really hysterical about it. I'm 110% certain what touched me was the Spirit of Almighty God. Theres no denying it,and God left nothing to confusion. Now my question is. Why would you be against that? Its obvious you've never experienced it because what I experienced could in no way be confused with a work of the flesh,or any other spirit besides The Holy Spirit. To read what you wrote,and actually know what I know, its rather frightening to read what you wrote.
@@barbaraGobert31 your experience must be interpret by the bible not the bible by your experience...we are emotional beings that's great...but our emotions are not the Holly Spirit of God....no where in the bible is that behavior spiritual
I think you have to be careful not to lump everyone into the same category. This is the problem with moving from one extreme to the other. The scripture is clear about the gifts of the Spirit and out of your bellies (spirit man) would flow rivers of living water of the Holy Spirit or being dry and closed off to a move of God and the other extreme is trying to force a move of God. I have been touched by the anointing of the Latter Rain, Charismatic, and Joy move of God. I can tell you with an absolute conviction aligned with scripture that these were true.
Nobody in the Bible falls backwards except the arrest team that goes after Jesus. Everyone is either on their knees or their face. Many times trembling.
Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. SELF-CONTROL! All manifestations involving loss of SELF-CONTROL is NOT the Holy Spirit. You only need scripture to have discernment. Thus "Holy Laughter" "Slain in the Spirit" and all other strange things where people lost SELF-CONTROL was an act, total rubbish emotionalism or a different spirit. (Danger: It was Not the Holy Spirit.) Do not follow them. In fact, without quoting scripture, you KNEW this was unbiblical and suspect, you demonstrate you had the gift of discernment right then and there (and bravery for standing up to him), and that pastor did not!
First, thank you to the guys who host this program and brought on this guest! Lindsay, thank you for having the courage to publicly share your experience and testimony! Stay true to the bible and His word. "Peace be with you."
@@Whol3NothaL3v3l I really don't think Jesus took or takes any offense to a lower case J being used. I do, however, think that He would take offense to your nasty comment. Judge not lest ye be judged.
I want to comment on this young lady and her bravery to face this issue with such grace and dignity. I won’t go into my story but will say I was involved in a hyper faith cult back in the 80s and I so relate to the experiences of coming out of a cult. I am so moved over by her knowledge of what was revealed to her of the spiritual darkness and to find her way out. I want to thank you for this video and will pray that those who are caught up in this cult will hear what is being said. May she never question that God gave her light and the ability to articulate with such ability and knowledge beyond her spiritual age in such a short time frame. You go girl! God has called you to this challenge. My prays will be for you!
We have unsaved people seeking God while avoiding repentance. The God of the Bible is a wonderful God! But He will not stroke your ego. He doesn't have to bend to your sinful nature to be a beautiful God. And He is Great and mighty. But you have to be humble and repentant. The God of the Bible resists the proud
I don't think that is what this video is about. Sidenote: FYI repentance doesn't save you and without receiving the wisdom from God and the holy spirit, whose job it is to convict. Most new believers do not know the depths of their wickedness until sanctification occurs. I don't think the issue is lack of repentance, I think it is straying from the Lord, the word, and not allowing the Spirit to lead them to repentance. The issue is allowing emotions to lead instead of God.
@alphant1 Not with you on that one. Jeff is a top notch preacher and evangelist. Critique if you will, but a disrespectful one- liner isn't offering much to any cause.
Apologia, I find your videos are important but frequently unclear. This video doesn't explain what Bethel is, who this person being interviewed is, or what the false gospel that Bethel teaches is. I trust you are correct in your assessment and I admire your passion, but the videos are sometimes very hard to follow for this reason. Clarity is key! Submitted with humility, God bless.
@@HipHopTV_Official it isnt yours or apologia's job to be God and proclaim 'truth' and dismiss Bethel or others who has led more ppl to Jesus than you, as cults or false teachers. Obviously they are doing something right for you all to accuse them of being devils.
@Scraxkat fwiw, my friend at BSSM knows her, and no-one has cast any real doubt upon it (she could be easily debunked by Bethel if she hadn't attended)
@Just Me - Satan wants you to "experience" him - Nowhere does The Bible talk about "experiencing" God - This experiential movement is not grounded in The Word of God
Wow!....i have been through a VERY similar experience for 30 years. I did and still can "speak in tongues" if someone asked me to demonstrate it. And fell over "by the Spirit" 😢. Only by God's grace have i truly become born again and live my life by the Word and turn from sin in the last 3 years. 1 year ago, i have been diagnosed with a stage 4 brain tumor that docs can't do anything about. They gave me 6 months to live....1 year and 1 month ago. I wake up each morning thanking God that He gave me another day to be a father i never had and minister to my young kids....to teach them and warn them of what false teachings their teachers in science will teach them on evolution....and to watch out for churches with false doctrines....TEST EVERYONE by God's WORD! If it was not demonstrated for us in the Word.."watch out!"...tongues were demonstrated totally different than what charasmatics teach. I am not afraid of death... personally i look forward in being with my Creator. But i know everytime i open my eyes, God is not done with me yet. I still have time as long as i breath to make fishers of men. Thanks brother Jeff, i've learnt many things from you...and also one of my favorite youtubers...Ray Comfort from Living Waters.
What an incredible testimony. As things become darker we need oil in our lamps. Develop a close relationship with the Holy spirit, reading the word of God and fellowship with other true believers. God has your back and we need to have a filter, discern everything, be narrow minded bible believing. Teach your kids and whatever happens they’ll always return to Jesus. Bless you you friend.
@@sophieca6906 Thanks for the advice, i have my whole church and people in other countries praying for me including my kids, wife and myself. Praying we Christians are allowed,...but overall let His will be done. God knows if it is best for me to take me now or in few years. Do yourself a favor and watch the movie "The Pilgrim's progress" by John Bunyan... fantastic film 👌. Nothing beats being with "the King" for eternity.
Already within the first minute I'm shocked, and I've watched an (if not this specific one) interview with her before. She got KICKED. OUT. For sharing the GOSPEL. That is absolutely shocking. But at the same time, it makes perfect sense considering all the heresy... heartbreaking
I was not there (and neither were you), so I don’t know what was said, but any message that denounces the role of Holy Spirit in the Church is NOT “the gospel” but, instead, is heresy.
@@NB-no7lh What you believe about the Holy Spirit is not the Gospel. John writes down in black and white what the Gospel is. *For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life* Nowhere in the that verse does it say what the Holy Spirit does within the church. Your beliefs seem to be an idol that is changing the Gospel into what you want it to be.
I thought, or think, they are conversing. This seems like a discussion/interview where she is sharing her experience though dialogue; in other words, they seem comfortable as if talking around a table rather than a formal monologue (typically a show will only show the one guest speaking while sharing their experience), type of interview.
People walk away from the Lord because they want to. If they truly knew the Lord they would not walk away from him. They clearly never knew him in the first place. It is not the job of any church to bring anyone closer to the Lord. We are responsible for our own relationship with him. EDIT: two years of following Jesus can change things drastically as we increase in wisdom. I don’t totally agree with my statement... I think church leaders have an incredibly high level of responsibility as they are called (usually) to nurture and feed the sheep. Lots of deception in these last days. May we as the body of Christ never submit ourselves fully to ONE movement or ONE church but be open to the full council of the Word and not just hang around in one stream for too long. God has so much for us! (This is not a knock on Bethel, I went to the school and found my home in Redding but if you are looking for solid Word teaching then you probably won’t get it- Bill and Kris have a specific mission and mandate, so when you don’t feel you are being fed move on, don’t go and cry about it to the rest of the world, I’ve had to learn this the hard way) Also if you are abandoning your faith in Jesus you either never knew Him or you’re in love with the world... REPENT before it’s too late.
@@H.T.2forever Seek *FIRST* The Kingdom of God. If you sincerely desire to *know* and *follow* Jesus... THEN return to asking Yah to guide you into all truth-including what The Living Word of God says and does not say. 1) Accept Jesus Christ as Messiah - The Living God who is Salvation. Jesus is the perfect judge. He is the one who made all things. He is the one who holds all things together. He made all things for Himself. He is worthy of all praise. As you walk as a surrendered disciple of Jesus, then, The Holy Spirit is the helper and the still small voice is your guide. 2) It is Jesus Christ of Nazareth that is THE Head of the church. Not a pastor, not a guru, not a theology, not a system of thought, not an affiliation, not a demonination or denomination, not the opinions of man. Opinions (mine, yours) and Religions of Man are going to leave you dry and will keep you from beholding The Lamb of God. The verses from the Bible will either make you new or they won't. You are either for Jesus or your against him. If you are seeking outside things (ascertaining theologies -looking laterally at people, offering up your opinions and critique's of denominations and faith's, yet you are not picking up your cross, dying to self daily and following Jesus, you are not going to partake in life more abundantly. There is authority to speak God's Justice and mercy. Or there is giving your opinions about the trappings of religion while not speaking at all about the heart of the issue. Which one will you choose? There is a way that seems right to a man but leads straight to death. So are you born again? Thank you for replying.
When she was telling us about the so called “holy laughter” How they were laughing and cackling while pointing at her was just like that demonic movie The Evil Dead.
Yeah I was listening to this and dozing off very relaxed when suddenly the "holy laughter" woke me straight up and gave me the chills and goosebumps. I thought what the heck is that? I looked at the video and turned the volume down. Not good.
Mary Joslyn I thought the same thing, then realized there’s a pt 2, so I’m guessing to stretch it, they helped guide the first episode so the 2nd part makes more sense. Just a guess though
Justin I thought I was the only one who would say things like this. Conversations, prayer requests, etc can all look like it’s a good thing but actually it’s gossip.
Jessie Alexander how much time have you spent at bethel or submitted under Bill Johnson? When it comes to the prophectic if you don’t fully know it’s best to keep quiet. Gods nots in heaven applauding this because these skeptics know everything. Maybe there are communities in the church with great revelation of mysteries.
@Justin no absolutely not God is speaking to me right now because I came to this conclusion earlier in the day and it's no accident that I came to this video right now. this is confirmation that God spoke to me earlier today and this is exposing false teaching. and the Bible says that we are supposed to expose that. Now THAT is actually a command and Jesus' own standard.
Justin Little trolls always arrive in the group together right? so you can pretend to back each other up as if like strangers. No. You're lying. And you KNOW that you're koolaid drinking defensive trolls.
@Justin And to answer your question I've been to Bethel, I can spot you a mile away. Memorized all the classic manipulative phrases designed to distract and insult. I could recite them to you in my sleep. I've been there for years I've got personal experience. Absolutely attacked anybody who read their own Bible and thinks accordingly with what IS written. Like the rest of the world does. Not like any group or Jim Jones and crew. You. ARE. AFRAID. Of the TRUTH getting leaked about forced theories. Open your Bible and spend three whole hours reading it and learn something for yourself.
I really appreciate hearing her testimony here. I also left a Bethel school. It was a sister school of Bethel and it was nuts. It's validating to hear that my concerns had/have substance.
I’m sorry that you didn’t see the miracle you were hoping for. I have seen this miracle in person and it is real. I hope you see your miracle one day and if you don’t I hope you know that you are loved🤍
The way we discern if something is of God is by the Word of God- and that my friends sums up this amazing interview. This whole “I feel God told me...” language has infiltrated so many churches even really biblical sound churches. I’ve caught myself saying it too. Woo! This was a good one!
God spoke to people Biblically, so give me the Bible verse that says He stopped speaking to people. God revealed Himself to people Biblically, so give me the Bible verse that says He stopped revealing Himself to people. God performed miracles Biblically, so give me the Bible verse that says He stopped performing miracles. The answer is He hasn't.
@@gabrielgibson3479 Exactly. I agree there is a lot of misuse of the words 'God told me...' and it's kind of become Christianese for 'what I feel is true...' BUT that doesn't mean that God doesn't speak to people.
@@gabrielgibson3479 You are spot on, Brother. This is about people being uncomfortable with the supernatural and not wanting to know Holy Spirit. The Church has put the word “the” or “Your” in front of Holy Spirit and refers to Him as an “it”, but Holy Spirit is just as much a person as JESUS and plays the greater role in this dispensation. Christ completed the work at the cross and left us with the gift of Holy Spirit, but many Christians are being as spoiled little brats on Christmas morning, complaining about the gift they’ve received. Cessation is a false doctrine purveyed by Christians who do not know Holy Spirit. So you don’t like tongues. So what! It is not up to you! Paul said in 1 Corinthians 14:39, “Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues.” (NKJV) You are commanded NOT to forbid speaking in tongues. Churches that do so are in sin and GOD will deal with them.
Honestly, I just got out of a very bethel group, and hearing your story is helping me greatly. Right now, your speaking the true word of God, because it is biblical, truthful, and it will help people truly find God.
I personally have some qualms with a bit of Bill Johnson's theology, but I won't throw the baby out with the bathwater. If you have ever watched a Bethel service, it's pretty hard to deny that those people love the Lord. The way they worship, the way that they proclaim His lordship over their lives with abandon, the true Gospel that lies at the core of their beliefs (you may argue otherwise but they believe that Jesus came to die for our sins, was resurrected, and lives today to restore relationship between God and humanity -- that is the Gospel), the way they PROCLAIM JESUS AS THE CHRIST (1 John 4:15) .. Biblically speaking, these are our brothers and sisters, members of the body of Christ, and we should treat them as such. This MacArthur Kundalini hysteria is all rooted in fear. Jesus made it pretty clear during his ministry that, if we ask for an outpouring of the Holy Spirit, He will give us just that and not anything demonic (Luke 11:13). Do you assume that those people over at Bethel are shouting, "Kundalini, kundalini, kundalini!" as they open themselves up to be possessed? LOL. No. They go hungrily to God the Father, in the name of Jesus, begging for a fresh encounter with the Holy Spirit. Should they be constantly walking on eggshells in their worship service, wondering if what they are feeling is of God or of the Devil? Heck no! What a miserable way to serve the Lord. If you have ever read a Bill Johnson book, you would know that he in most cases, right off the bat, claims to not have it all figured out. He admits that there may be errors in his way of thinking that God may choose to reveal to him over time. Those kinds of statements come from a man who has been trained in humility. Like I said, I'm not 100% on board with his theology, but I choose to love him and the rest of my brothers and sisters at Bethel because that is my mandate from God. I respect your desire to know and practice the truth, but there is a fine line between that and accusatory divisiveness. The latter is a cancer to the modern day church.
They worship the One true God. Christ alone. I won't sit here and deny that there are areas in their ministry that need some repentance but no ministry ever has been perfect besides Christ Himself. It's about a body and the godly gifts they do have they operate well in. It is our job as brothers and sisters to pray for others when we see them walking in error in any walk of their life. Also just because their doctrine doesn't line up with the way the "gospel" has been preached in America doesn't mean it's wrong. The gospel for too long has been watered down and based on human failure rather than the grace and sovereignty of God and Bethel is not scared to go after the pure unadulterated gospel of Jesus Christ. Of course they are gonna be persecuted for it just like Jesus was! Beware of the form of godliness with no power friend! Blessings and love to you
Yeah, seems like people don't like any authority or control as in conversations they Apologia are leading and guiding the conversation if you don't like well... you can get on the internet and complain. SMH!
This is a very responsible conversation. Those of us within the Charismatic Movement can learn a lot from this and allow the Lord to refine our language and practice. Bless you.
SA Tabernacle With David Lee Brown facts!! I also think it’s very important to differentiate between what Bethel teachers through its leadership and what members/students practice
There's always something to be learned. Bill Johnson says it regularly, he has a lot of critics and instead of reacting to them he looks for some hint of truth he can learn from. I hope this group of RUclipsrs would do the same.
The scriptures do not say the bible is the foundation of truth. (Aka Solo Scriptura). Because the bible wasn't written until many years later. Protestants believe in Solo Scriptural even though the bible doesn't say this is so. It says it's the church. The bible was put together by the Catholic church. Protestants dont have a church. They have over 40,000 churches that all differ slightly in there interpretation of the Bible and what Christianity is. They do not have a sole authority. They don't have a council that all decides what is right or wrong. If you don't agree with your churches pastor, you just drive down the street and find a different church. Protestantism has no foundation, no traditions and no authority given to them by Jesus or Peter. Peter was given the Keys to the kingdom and the sole receiver of Authority. He started One Holy and Apostolic church.
@@JesusChurchBible I'll address some of your points. Scriptures don't have to say they're the foundation of truth but they ARE. Catholics didn't write the Bible. Where'd you get that from? The catholic church is the largest, most deceiving cult ever. A cult demands control, always at a price$$$. Jesus gave us freedom through his love and grace by his work on the cross. He commands no praying to Mary or dead saints, no baptizing babies, no confessing to a priest, none of it. Rather than spouting what Catholicism has taught you to believe, you should provide scripture. 2 Tim. 3:16.
I learned so much I didn’t even know that I needed to learn. This put holy fear in me and makes me want to read and pray even more. These doctrines and false prophets are so dangerous, God have mercy and deliver us.
The scriptures do not say the bible is the foundation of truth. (Aka Solo Scriptura). Because the bible wasn't written until many years later. Protestants believe in Solo Scriptural even though the bible doesn't say this is so. It says it's the church. The bible was put together by the Catholic church. Protestants dont have a church. They have over 40,000 churches that all differ slightly in there interpretation of the Bible and what Christianity is. They do not have a sole authority. They don't have a council that all decides what is right or wrong. If you don't agree with your churches pastor, you just drive down the street and find a different church. Protestantism has no foundation, no traditions and no authority given to them by Jesus or Peter. Peter was given the Keys to the kingdom and the sole receiver of Authority. He started One Holy and Apostolic church.
@@JesusChurchBible Jesus is the foundation of truth, and He is the Word of God. John 14:6 ESV Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. John 1:14 ESV And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Michel Haineault trinitarian: a person who believes in the doctrine of the Trinity. How is this not the real Jesus. God the father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit
@@michelhaineault6654 So are you saying that there are three gods or infinate gods like mormons believe? Or perhaps three gods like the Jehovah's Witnesses believe? Do you acknowledge the deity of Jesus? Please clarify.
@@michelhaineault6654 - So . . . there is one God (Yahweh) with 3 personages, Father, Son and His Holy Spirt? Not sure where the disagreement is? Are you questioning the eternality of Jesus? By ETERNALITY I mean that He has no beginning and no end (not timelessness as Mormonism teaches). Cuz the Bible has a lot to say about that, if that's an issue for you.
The only fake jesus i see is what is in 90% of americas dead churxhes wake up people you can not be a pharisee. You can not find god my analyzing scripture its about spiritual relationships.
I encourage people not to make judgements without personal experience with Bethel (or any church) AND a conversation with a member of church leadership. Because Lindsay has not spoken to leadership, her comments become gossip not completely backed up with truth. This is NOT how the Bible counsels to handle disagreement!
donnasearch1 God’s Word ONLY, not man’s. The leadership is teaching false practices and doctrine. Bethel refers to the “Bethel experience” the “Bethel Culture, “they think, they feel”, sorry, they proof text...it’s only God’s Authority in His Word. You say Lindsay’s comments are gossip bc she has not spoken to leadership... she was there, she got kicked out. Bethel’s doctrine is false because they ignore God and His authoritative word.
southerngirl2181 I don’t. She is just one more person who confirms the false teachings and doctrine from Bethel. Scripture is to be taught in light of scripture and in context. Something you rarely see from Bethel. They teach false, unbiblical practices - drunk on Holy Ghost wine, Holy Spirit laughter and convulsions, fire tunnels, Sozo, that Jesus gave up His divine nature and became fully man 🤦🏻♂️. We must defend the integrity of the gospel. Christian doctrine must align with God’s word, not man’s emotions, feelings and what THEY think. It is not the gospel of self and feel good and we are to call out false practices, teachers and doctrine in kindness and love. Further points on false teachers: A false teacher “advocates a different doctrine.” False teaching may take many forms. It may deny God’s existence, or teach error about His nature and attributes. It may deny the Trinity. Error about Christ’s Person and work is also common in false systems. Those who deny His virgin birth, sinless perfection, substitutionary death, bodily resurrection, or future return show signs of a dangerous infection. False teachers also teach error about the nature, Person, and work of the Holy Spirit. Yet another strain of the disease of false teaching denies the authenticity, inspiration, authority, or inerrancy of Scripture. At the same time, another mark of false teachers is what they deny. Their teaching not only affirms error, but also “does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Timothy 6:3). False teachers are not in agreement with spiritually wholesome and beneficial words. That believers need to pay attention to sound, healthy teaching is repeatedly emphasized in the Pastoral Epistles (cf. 1 Timothy 1:10; 2 Timothy 1:13; Titus 1:9; 2:1). False teachers are not committed to Scripture. They may speak of Jesus and the Father, but the heart of their ministry will not be the Word of God. They will either add to it, take away from it, interpret it in some heretical fashion, add other “revelations” to it, or deny it altogether. ~John MacArthur
Wow, I thought, here it comes, the big news about Bethel. In summary: This lady is shocked because people are laughing during encounter with God, demons are being cast out, people are being taught to heal and this lady is not experiencing the same. Matthew 10:8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cure those with leprosy, and cast out demons. Give as freely as you have received! The joy of the Lord is my strength.” -Nehemiah 8:10. I think you guys are great in sharing the Word, but criticising this part of the Bible that you don't apply, nor follow goes too far. Jesus gave this as a command. It is not a suggestion.
@@inshadow2000 John 14:12-14 New International Version (NIV) 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. Jesus said. Whoever believes in me... Do you believe in Him? Then it applies to you.
@@inshadow2000 it's like saying almost no scripture applies to us because it was written to specific people, like the letter to Galatians is for the Galatians, so there's no need for us to read through it because it was written for them... Jesus spoke to the Jews, so we shouldn't take in what He said to the Jews, which is almost everything 😂... Seriously?
@@JebbMichael Of course Jesus is not talking of doing greater miracles than He did. Of course I believe that the sick still will be healed and demons will be cast out. But only through the power of Jesus and only when it's the will of God. Tell me - what do you believe that verse 13-14 means? I believe that what is meant by greater things, is what the followers is achieving in proliferation of christianity.
LAST DAYS!! Keep your eyes open, guard your heart, test all things against the Word of God! I’ve been Saved all my life and had no idea until recently, that these churches & movements existed. My heart & spirit is so grieved. I can’t believe how many people are following these False Prophets, Teachers & Preachers! READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
What a thoughtful, intelligent, truth-seeking young woman! Just finished listening to “Strange Fire” by John MacArthur, and you are definitely exposing the dangers of “using” the Holy Spirit for our own selfish, misguided purposes.
Using the holy spirit for our misguided I think u said desires, that statement made me think about that passage in the bible where people are saying to jesus, haven't I healed the sick in your name and raised the dead in your name and jesus said get away from me you workers of iniquity I never knew you.
I thank God for her story, however i think its important to remember that she is a New Believer. A lot of what Bethel does is way Outside of the context of scripture. But the gifts of the bible are real and are used to equip and edify the church. What she experinced as a new believer,im sure has left a bad taste in her mouth and i Pray healing over right now. With that being said Deliverance is a must in the Kingdom of God and somtimes that does look strange. Bethel has this hyper extreme view on the Gifts, but dont disregard the gifts and deliverence because of their perversion.
X JW here. I was brought to a assembly of God church with my husband absolutely terrified as I usually expierence debilitating anxiety or have a real panic attack (not the new trendy version of being triggered but diagnosed c ptsd). My husband said if I felt nervous at all we would leave. Literally walking in the door to the church I was absolutely overwhelmed by Holy Spirit and saw for the first time true Christian love for EVERY kind of person. Nobody eyeying me up and down self righteously. I watch Bethel sermons often. I watch this channel often as well. I have heard it said find a church in your community. I am overwhelmed and confused by how to find the correct church. I love sermons using scripture constantly or like she says more meat. It’s overwhelming and emotional to hear the Bible used correctly and without the need to control. I guess I am just asking for prayer to find my home church. Even after leaving the JWs after my NDA at 18 (I was fully brainwashed before being born in) I still prayed before and during every single thing in life. I want a church. Please pray for clearity…
I had this awesome experience with God, I'm deathly ill and I've night I was scared beyond measure. Prayed to the Lord and I felt what felt like a heavy blanket of peace upon me. Upon going to sleep I felt a burst of a liquid loving living light fill me up and I could see a golden light. Never experienced love like that in my life!
@@barbaraGobert31 That is still an experience and scripture tells us to trust the Bible not our experiences. The greatest “experience” felt or witnessed in all of human history was by Peter, James and John seeing Jesus’ transfiguration (Matthew 17:2) and yet in 2 Peter 1:18-20 Peter explains this experience and goes on to say we have the prophetic word made MORE sure (the Bible). The Bible is surer than any human experience. I have experienced unexplainable things as well, but I am not to rely on those experiences. I have no way other than God’s word to know for certain what He is saying or what His will is. I grew up for 26 years in a setting similar to Bethel, so I’m not unfamiliar with this way of thinking. By God’s complete grace He opened my eyes.
@@barbaraGobert31 I’m one of the skeptics. I don’t think it’s sad when someone reserves judgment on things that are not in the scriptures. I think it’s sad that people gullibly conclude that something is directly from God without even asking what the person believes about themselves, God, and the gospel. There are a lot of false converts having experiences that give them false assurance of salvation. I also don’t confuse one-off events with spiritual gifts.
@John Eldred well, I do know I should of died, but here I am everyday. God saved my life and He is healing me of the damage I sustained. What did that light do for me? Well it was comforting. How do I know it was God? I read His word and talk to Him daily.
VERY EXCELLENT POINT !!!! BY Random Neighbour 4 hours ago (edited) Interview a leader from bethel and hear their perspective...they are hardly hiding. I'm not meaning to belittle Lindsay but she obviously has a chip on her shoulder toward Bethel. Interviewing her and using that to form opinions about Bethel is dangerous, this can spread false information and wrongful persecution (pure evil). Interview a leader and measure that against the bible. Come on apologia church/ Pastor Jeff, I would expect better from you.
There are already 3 parts to this interview online, these are reposts of the 3 parts. In the last one they issue a invitation to Bill and Kris to come on the show and share their thoughts, the invitation has already been issued. As well she explains her heart more behind her comments in the others as well. Before making a final judgement on Jeff and Apologia, with all grace I ask you to have patience with people and not be to quick to have a finalized opinion until seeing all 3 and going to the Lord in prayer. God bless and grace be with you.
Victorious Pauper They are hiding! Whenever I’ve questioned a Bethel person’s beliefs on a Bethel site, I’ve been blacklisted, removed as friends and my comments have been removed. They censor their sites regularly. For services at Bethel sites, they keep a watch out for people who have testified against their teachings and have guards at the front doors that watch out for their naysayers and don’t let them into the services.
Wow - it seems like Bethel says some “phrases” they shouldn’t say and has some students that may or may not be going off on their own without truth and understanding of scripture. This video still does NOT clearly layout what they said that denies Christ?? So they misunderstand some theology - but believing in signs and wonders are not a disqualification for being a Christian. What if the Holy Spirit did move on half the congregation and they were crying? Do they proclaim Jesus and his death and resurrection and that we are saved by his grace and not works? If yes, they are NOT unbelievers. Do they have some theology errors? Maybe! But so do you guys. You quote scriptures and use them in your own context. Deuteronomy 13 talks about people that are preforming signs and wonders and then telling them to follow (clearly) other gods. Bill Johnson is not performing signs and wonders and telling them to follow anyone but the risen Son of God. If you read the context of when Paul talks about false teachers and false gospels, he goes on to describe what the issues are that are false. It’s when they put works or the “law” in place of grace! (Galatians). Or when they were calling him foolish and demeaning his Gospel! (Corinthians) Be careful we don’t go calling every part of the body of Christ with a little theology error in their phrases or maybe just in their congregation, and classify them and everyone who associates with them as heretical!! Read your bibles. “By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,” 1 John 4:2 ESV THAT is how you know a false prophet. A false prophet in the ends times (Matthew 24) claims to BE Christ or show you a different (literal) Christ. You will know them by their fruits. Read romans 12. Read 1 Corinthians 13 about love. Remember Jesus said he would give us his Holy Spirit to convict us and give us discernment on right and wrong. That is in SCRIPTURE. Just as the Muslim who Jesus appears to that’s never read the Bible and has none CAN live a sanctifying life by the power of the Holy Spirit without the Bible. (Maybe that’s what Bill Johnson was saying? Don’t know cause never heard him more than a couple times). All this to say - let’s unify as a church and correct each other in LOVE. Not by blasting a RUclips video without two or more witnesses declaring the proof they have denied Jesus Christ. You are SLANDERING the body of Christ is you miss this. That is SIN. Be careful. Love them, and if they are wrong - let’s warn them as a brother, not treating them as a enemy. (2 Thessalonians 3:15)
Dude they are trying to bring people to Christ through love! And not everyone who confesses Christ is a Christian, there are such things as wolves in sheep’s clothing. Christianity isn’t some hippy love, and accepting is not the same as loving someone. All of these made up terms bethel uses, uncontrollable laughter?!?! Convulsing on the ground?!?! That sounds like a horror movie. There’s no structure or foundation in the bethel church, it’s all about feelings there.
Travis F Brother, ask God for wisdom in this. What you said shows you didn’t read what I wrote. Sheep in wolves clothing scripture: read the next verses. “You will know them by their fruits.” That’s why I said read Romans and Corinthians. Judge righteously, and test the spirits. I don’t know what going on at Bethel, but I am not there. So the best I can do if I hear of something I KNOW is of the flesh and not of the spirit, then I warn as a BROTHER. If they denounce Christ come in the flesh saved by grace and not works of the law, then I can say they are heretical. Loving Christ is not “hippie” love (whatever that means), but loving Christ is A matter of the heart. And those students over there at Bethel are seeking with their heart something or someone. And who they believe there seeking is the risen son of God/son of man. So if 100 people came to know the Lord at bethel church, and they see this video, as young Christians in the Lord, this May uproot their faith entirely. You may be ripping up the seeds with the thorns (if there are any). A video (whether right or wrong) based on the opinions of one person is not the way to uproot false theology within the church. Yes love is not always accepting, but it is patient and kind. Not arrogant or rude. This video is arrogant. Yes they have some things at Bethel which sounds like foolishness, but God has chosen the foolish to shame the wise. Never be wise in your own eyes. What happens between someone with the Holy Spirit is not a formula. Just because it hasn’t happened to you does not mean it hasn’t happened to someone else. I personally have been baptized in the Holy Spirit. I laughed and cried and felt the most peace I have ever felt as I was knocked to my knees (out of my control) and as I proclaimed the name of Jesus Christ as Lord. That’s NOT the work of beelzebul. A house divided against itself cannot stand.
Mr39Brown you sound very prideful and manipulating honestly and a deceiver. I think you misinterpreted what I was saying, I wasn’t called you a wolves in sheep’s clothing or accusing you of doing anything. I agree with all of the things you have said. I was just saying my thoughts about what I have witnessed and how there are not many fruits according to the scripture at those churches. When a church does “love bombing” and never talks about repentance. Then yes they seeking another spirit and the scripture does talk about other spirits not from God that people welcome into there life’s. Hippie love is not a new term so I’m not sure whats confusing about that? It means you accept everything no matter what people do “in the name of Christ”. That no matter what a person does it is accepted automatically.
Okay, let’s get to the crux of one of the main issues here. Bethel claims to hear the voice of God by His Holy Spirit, leading to much of their “out of the box” thinking. And that’s a no-no. But then someone else who disagrees with their theology and practices is (and I will quote) “led by the Spirit” to stay there and challenge them after praying and “feeling” like that’s what she needs to do. And that’s okay. Huh????? These are the exact same things, exact same practice, just played on different teams. How do you reconcile the fact that Jesus has given us His Holy Spirit, and the Bible itself says He (Holy Spirit) will lead us in all truth, and that His sheep hear His voice, but it’s okay for (and I’m not blasting her because she seems like she is attempting to be genuine, I’m not calling her a bad person, or anyone else in this conversation) Ms. Lindsey or any other Christian to practice hearing from the Holy Spirit as long as it fits your theology? The Bible says nothing about how Lindsey should make this decision (directly), and it would be all extra-biblical for your argument against my claim. The Bible doesn’t say “in 2019, when Ms. Lindsey leaves this school she should...” No. A concept about hearing from God through His Spirit (maybe even tied to specific traditions of prophetic warnings or even “preaching the true gospel”) is then applied to the current situation. Which should be wrong following the line of thinking in this video conversation. I’m a Christian. But I’m also a thinker and intellectual. And either we have the ability to be led by the Spirit, or we don’t. Either we can hear His voice for our individual lives or we can’t. You can’t have it both ways - only being able to hear the Spirit when it fits your theology. Hearing the voice of God (keeping out every other theological issue presented) is pretty cut and dry theologically, biblically, and practically. This is a supernatural practice. For Gods sake, what is prayer then? Just personal musings and reflection? We don’t need a God (or gods) to do that. This is a PARAMOUNT contradiction that must be dealt with. What does Christianity have to offer, then, besides a sociological and cultural framework to put into practice rituals that are labeled as sacred? Is that it? I have never had personal (first hand) experience with Bethel (directly in Redding, but have experienced their worship nights or outreaches elsewhere) but have known people who have. I also don’t know Cultish very well. I agree that some of the reported practices and odd cultural norms sound very cultish (I do like that term by the way), but there’s a problem here with the logic surrounding a large portion of the Christian faith and practice - being led by the Spirit, hearing the voice of God, and those being directly related to prayer. Maybe it’s a problem in Christianity itself. Hm.... thoughts?
In my experience, people love to fabricate a god that agrees with their experiences. If they experience only yes/no convictions from the Holy Spirit, they create a belief that someone who hears more detail - or even hears something that's not conviction of sin - is wrong. They rarely stop to ask "Can I hear more detail than that's-good/that's-bad?", instead, they often say "that's weird" or "that's cult-like" - even if what they call "weird" is actually far more Bible-based than their beliefs!
@@willstern1692 I agree, creating a god or projecting a god that is similar to us or that is similar to our experiences is all too common. What is also common, which you elude to, is a fear of the unknown. So in these two concepts of projecting a known god and fearing the unknown, what we haven't experienced, creates a pretty large chasm to cross for a lot of people. I don't blame them nor the difficulty in crossing this chasm, but cross it we must. (and really, we cross this type of chasm in every aspect of life like getting your first job, being a first-time parent, overcoming peer/relationship issues, etc. In these cases we overcome the chasm.) In this case, dogma, ideology, and theological differences maintain the rift. This is where the bible can be very practically handy, pointing out truths of the Christian faith that are "weird" and unknown, but challenging us to walk in them, just as Jesus walked, as he commanded his disciples to teach others everything they were commanded. No getting around the implications of that conversation (because that then means all the commands and teachings the disciples were taught are supposed to be taught to the people they preach/reach out to. And continuing, that means that very command to teach everything is applied again to the new disciples, and there goes the forever propagation of the Gospel and commandments of Chris).
Bless you so much dear sister. This video popped up after l spent all day yesterday in prayer about coming out openly with my deep concern about Bethel. I pray in Jesus name that the Lord uses your testimony to save many many countless people from the different Gospel. I too was lead into this chaos seeking a Church after being saved. It never really sat right in my spirit.
This is dangerous on many counts. Every commenter on this video, just bare in mind that you will be held accountable for every word you speak out by The Lord. To make judgments without hearing what Bethel leadership team have to say isn’t the way Christians should deal with these kind of issues. I’m not taking sides but we’ve only heard one perspective on what actually happened. Just saying 🤔
I was raised Foursquare and Assembly of God Then 16 years in Calvary Chapel it's all error begets error heresy begets heresy the Pentecostal shuxtering going on for about 120 years is manifesting itself as false signs & wonders the entire time tongues as in mono syllabic guttural utterings is presumption practiced as it is at the standard charismaniacal gatherings It is presumption God considers presumption as Abominable. If you are saved Study to shew thyself approved unto God a workman that needeth not to be ashamed . Stop with the gooey oooyey rubbish and rightly divide the word of Truth not some esometavibe that does nothing for The Way The Truth The Life through Jesus Christ and The helper he sent. The healing the speaking in other "languages" the prophecies all in the Holy Bible. Don't need signs and wonders that charismaniacal people are always seeking. SMH! Get back to simply Trusting and Studying as the Bereans did walk according to his purposes not always stretching to get more and more and more and more and more and more, ad nauseum. If you don't get it, forget about it maybe a given over to a..... is what is going on. Come out of the Charismaniacal Pentecostal rubbish. Silly superstitious rubbish.
I detest Christian back biting, we are ONE body. These kind of conversations are where the enemy moves in against the body. If you have an issue with Bill Johnson and his teaching, bring it up to him and the church to discuss for clarity and resolution. If your questions are not answered, walk away and have nothing to do with him. The NT is very clear on this. To interview and "gossip" is folly. Pray for discernment and only follow Jesus. Most people can discern that their pastor is not Jesus and just a man who loves the Lord, doing his best to share what he has learned and introduce you to Him as well.
I’m not sure I would label it as misogyny, that’s painting a broad brush. People talk over others because it works, and women are more likely to be agreeable and put up with it. I’ve realized this, and in some cases I’ve learned to speak up and say “I wasn’t done talking yet, I’d like to finish.” and I continue, and every single time it works. It helps to be forward and blunt.
Thank you for this. I find it amazing that I have been out of this type of Charasmatic church since 2011 and yet I thought they were simply Pentecostal but it took a friend to tell me just this year that it's the NAR movement, which spawned out of the Toronto blessing. Sadly my father taught us this growing up and said we have to pray till we hear God's audible response. I would lay awake for months waiting for God's voicing and cried cause I never heard it, all the while my bible sat unread. I pray for my dad that he get out of this movement, he's 76 and has been in it for over 50 years which causes me great discomfort, but I know that the Holy Spirit can move even the hardest heart. Pray that it doesn't harden it further, but more so that God's will be done. Thank you for your testimony, I look forward to part 2.
I have heard from God a few times, and his people do know his voice, but it wasn't something I conjured up, it's in God's timing, but there could be years and years in between, and that doesn't mean we should stop trusting God or being patient. And we are also supposed to test the spirits, and what you're are describing sounds like torment and oppression. Yet there are many verses in the Bible about crying out to God and he will answer, and still there are many other verses in the Bible where God says you cry out to me, but I will not hear, and it all had to do with the position of the hearts of the people and he would not hear when the people were in continual rebellious sin right up until things got bad, then they cried to God. I don't think it wise at all to harden our hearts to hearing God's voice or believing that we can, but to try to use this as a way to feel powerful, gifted, special, or ultra spiritual is wrong. Dear God renew a clean heart in us and let it never be hardened to you, but stay humble before you, not thinking of ourselves too great. I know you wrote this two years ago, but I feel gratefully convicted, Because I would get depressed and broken hearted when I didn't hear from God, but God already showed the ultimate show of love on the cross! Thank God, this is so powerful.
I am a defector from bethel as well. And I can tell you that what she's saying is absolutely correct. I just hope and pray that I can find other believers that understand these false doctrines and teachings that have spread across the nation like wildfire.
*ya theres a lot of crap thats caught fire -- Flaky Charismatics, Flaky Reformers, Flaky Calvinists, Flake Cessationists. Its a total CRAP fire. I agree.*
No church is perfect. Every church has humans, so every church has flaws. You have to decide what you are and aren’t willing to give up. I’ll give you one guideline: Overemphasizing love will not correct error, but emphasizing truth will lead you to the importance of love.
@@ricksonora6656 sorry that logic is flawed. You cannot tell me that father God was wrong when he said if anyone brings a different doctrine other than what was taught consider them a curse. There is no middle ground here. There is no room for your reasoning and logic of what you think is right and wrong. It's according to the word of God. And the Lord is very clear how he feels about those that mislead the sheep and teach contrary to what he says in his word. They are curse and we are to have nothing to do with them.
I believe it's possible to see Angels, but only if God chooses to show them to a person. If she thought she would see Angels because some friends wanted her to see Angels, it was never going to work. I think spiritual maturity would tell us that supernatural experiences from God are gifts from God, not something we can earn after we reach Level 99 Christianity by singing a ton of praise hymns loudly. We are to pursue God, not experiences, and then he may choose to give us supernatural experiences or show us things about the future. If we are only pursuing experiences, (even unwittingly, in her case) then we are only pursing experiences, not God. Also, if someone claims that "God told me you need to do X", don't agree to it unless God told/tells you the same thing! It's common sense but sometimes even a demonically/internally inspired action seems eerily accurate and people never then go to God about it, they just accept it and do it. Bad Idea! And I say none of this in Judgement of Lindsay, she said herself that she was young and a spiritually young believer. I lay the blame for these things on others who guided her incorrectly. I have had supernatural experiences where the Lord showed me things about the future that came to pass or gave miraculous provision in answer to prayer, or even gave me supernatural peace about huge life concerns. But again, I never pursue these experiences, I just keep praying, reading my bible and trying to follow God. I know other believers who have been show many more things than I have, but again, it's not a contest and I am not worried about it. Any church where experiences are required, expected or made contingent to following God is pursing the wrong things. God can LITERALLY speak to in a small still voice, but knowing when it's God and when it's just our thoughts is difficult. I think it's important to say that, because some Christians are in the Habit of ignoring the Holy Spirit and trying to limit God's voice to their daily 10-20 minutes of Bible reading, shutting off God for the rest of the day. God is so much easier to deal with when you don't have to listen to his prompting throughout your day. "Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said". Many Christians seem to ignore or forget this verse. It's critically important to understanding prophecy.
They said Bethel is on the spiritual side of gifts lol. satan is a spirit man that stands in Heaven telling GOD to make people stumble into occultic spiritualism .. so true
I thought, or think, they are conversing. This seems like a discussion/interview where she is sharing her experience though dialogue; in other words, they seem comfortable as if talking around a table rather than a formal monologue (typically a show will only show the one guest speaking while sharing their experience), type of interview.
Got about halfway through this. Although I respect where she is coming from I am very disappointed at the one-sidedness of the conversation. Lots of accusations without much substance. Very unfortunate.
But this isn't the only instance of warning reports on Bethel. search for "grave soaking" How in the world can that be Biblical?? That's necromancy, what Saul was condemned for, and falls under witchcraft! They practice the kundalini spirit. Check this out: ruclips.net/video/2r5fMUct_co/видео.html
@@sigalsmadar4547 you should know that both leading pastors of Bethel have long addressed this issue and have denounced that grave soaking has ever been acceptable. Since when do the acts of students represent a particular church's doctrine of belief?
Sigal Smadar, witches have been known to try and tear down bethel in the same manner these people are. If you ignore the gossip and listen to what bethel actually teaches, you’ll find out that you’re hearing lies invented by the accuser.
I had many of the same experiences (and far stranger if you can believe it) in the word faith churches in FL that she had at Bethel. I was in Rodney Howard-Browne’s cult. Randy White and (his then wife) Paula, Reinhardt Bohnke, Joyce Meyer. The Gospel came to me like a 50 degree air conditioner on full blast after a ten hour convoy in Iraq.
I guess Mr Wigglesworth and the miracles that followed was a lie as well. Hmmmmmm I've experienced a few manifestations of the Spirit myself and have became stronger in the faith. Born again is Born again period.
Not sure from this conversation what Bill or Bethel has or is doing wrong. There is no perfect church. Weird things happening at a church does not discredit it. And what? Wait, is this a man or a woman? Before taking the nat out of anothers eye, you must remove the log from yours. Bill uses numerous scriptures. This just seems like trying to find fault. What about all of the profound teachings at Bethel? Is anyone interested in talking about those? What about Bills teaching on being a person of prayer, healing, raising the dead, casting out demons, living a life of truth, the cross of Christ? Why is this not a discussion? The subject of Jesus is so delightful, Bill talks alot about that. People said similar things about Christ. To be honest, I'm a little cautious about these people and their person being interviewed. You should be preaching the gospel. The gospel alone saves and protects people who are truly after God from occults. Try it
I grew up liking Bethel from afar because I’ve been to the Internationa House of Prayer in KC many times. I have many friends who did the BSSM. I do have to say however, that I watched Kris Valloton do an interview on TV where he gave a prophesy and immediately contradicted both himself and the Bible within 2 minutes. I was like: “oh no, this guy can’t keep track of what he just said and doesn’t know the Bible”. Then later I watched him lash out at people on FB who questioned him about anything - pretty ugly. That’s not someone I want to be like. I produced a TV show, now streaming on Amazon about paranormal events and specifically created an episode about miracles, and shows “jewels” found by people at Bethel. Our South African post-production team couldn’t stop making fun of it - and honestly, it does seem pretty ridiculous. And the gems looked fake and placed there) Mike Bickel himself at IHOP addresses all the weird spirit manifesters one time in a way that shocked me (because I thought he was all in to that - the loud “WHOAs” and the laughing and the convulsing - all the things that draw attention to someone and weren’t seen in the Bible). Mike said that the church tends to feel like a safe environment for people to act out their desires that can be more personally-led than spirit-led. That often these loud WHOAs, laughter, etc, are because someone feels comfortable to do them, rather than a manifestation of the Spirit. (I’m paraphrasing). Do I think Bethel has God in it. Yes. God use donkeys, he used me, he uses Bethel. Have most of my friends been disappointed my Bethel and their BSSM? Yes. But that could be based on their expectations. Does Bethel seem to impact their community positively? Yes. Does Bethel seem to focus more on feelings than being strongly founded in the Word? Yes. Which is why there are such underlying issues - the foundation isn’t there. Is Kris Valloton probably a great guy who hears from God sometimes? Yes. But not in the two times I saw him, but we’re all human - it was just red flags for me as someone trying to be a leader. The book “the Final quest” had a great image of different ledges on a mountain, and how we defend our own ledge. Bethel is ledge, not the destination, but someplace that an ASPECT of Christianity is done right. A place to learn that and move on to other places that can round you out in your journey
I am not defending Bethal. I have never been. But here is a thought: Who is pressing in to the Kingdom? Who is genuinely pursuing souls? Who is teaching people to break the stronghold of 2000 years of (religion without relationship)? So if we actually find one, let's just call it a cult...nice. The Holy Spirit is a dart board to those unable to break certain yokes or people who would rather stand holding the punch than get out there and dance...speaking figuratively. The Holy Bible is the chalk line standard of God's Truth, however I do not worship ink. We are not called to worship Ink on pages, idolaters do that; we are called to worship the Spirit who reviels the ink to us. Isaiah 9:6 Jesus Christ is Almighty God. To worship Him as such is to worship in Truth. He alone conquered the worst fear of all...death. So if death has been swallowed in victory, the only things to rely watch out for are the hope thieves. Those that call evil good and good evil. The accuser loves it when some unlearned spectator joins in on the dart throwing. So in Love, careful brethren. When I was filled with the Holy Spirit at 17 I was hit with laughter, nonstop laughter. A life altering experience. If you want to know if a person is authentic, the Bible says only look to the fruit of the Spirit. Peace? Check Love? Check Joy? Come on somebody. My personal checker is whether a leader has as much humility as he or she does power. G Michael Price
“ I have resolved to know nothing but Christ and Him crucified” read the Bible, stop eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Jesus is King
That's an incomplete scripture! 2 Corinthians 2:2 says "For I have resolved to knowing nothing WHILE I WAS WITH YOU, save Christ and Him crucified..." That statement implies that He knew other things, but while he was with them, what matters most to him was to teach them the revelation of Christ and him crucified.
The Holy Spirit shouldn’t be ignored in the church and I think that a lot of times He is. I will admit, as an 18 year old who has been thinking about joining BSSM for a few years now, that some things such as the Honey Pot are very weird, but I am not going to think something is demonic simply because it isn’t normal. That’s what many Jews did to Jesus. So right now I’m at a point where I understand that God is NOT restricted by the works in his word, but he IS restricted by what he has already said about his nature. In other words, God does not contradict himself, but he is always capable of doing more than we can comprehend. Nothing in this interview really changed my mind and made me think that Bethel is a cult, but I will definitely dive into the other interviews with the same hunger for biblical truth.
5 лет назад
Become a Berean. Learn the WORD of God. Signs and wonders are for the jews. We should be led by the HS not manipulated by our emotions.
I think that these videos will help you. These videos are actual footage taken at Bethel of what they believe to be the "holy spirit". So frightening and disturbing. ruclips.net/video/i-cXyCCLK3w/видео.html ruclips.net/video/16H84rcaqyk/видео.html ruclips.net/video/vtWEu_m9-H4/видео.html (steffany gretzinger is in this one starting at 8:55) ruclips.net/video/VZkgY-bP7yk/видео.html ruclips.net/video/vbEpJU1UMR0/видео.html Honestly, this isnt even scratching the surface on what you kind find coming from Bethel
Bethel is a cult and there is tons and tons of proof out there on it and has been for Years..all you have to do is look. Heck allot of it is on there website.. Watching people going through the Kundalini Spirit worship stuff is enough, and that's tied to Hinduism and other types of worship with spirits. "Grace Soaking" just look that up yourself. Fire Tunnels, smoking the Spirit...it's kind of like Scientology, once your in getting out is harder than getting in . Cults prey on the weak. Always gave always will that's how Satan works.
This is greatly needed. I've come out of the same type of stuff. Thank God for RUclips! I starting watching a bunch of RUclips videos by jeff durbin, paul washer, john piper, ray comfort, and Leonard ravenhill. I also watched videos about exposing the false teachings that I was around. Thank you for your work apologia studies.
@Follow the Nazarene seriously happy you know and are exposing these guys and God has you doing his work. nice (i mean this in the most sincere way, not to be taken sarcastically)
Dont go from one extreme to the other there is a middle ground. Calvinist theology is off in a lot of points. They believe once saved always saved and there is nothing you can do to lose your Salvation among a bunch of other weird stuff. They believe everything is predestined lile you basically dont have a free will. Or no matter what you do in your life good or bad it was meant to happen.
It is extremely dangerous to judge anything: entity, organization, company, by one person's experience. For her to do that of Bethel, for us to do that of her experience. You take highly filtered snapshots of one experience and through your narrative see it one way when another person would see it another. We are not so amazing that my experience defines truth. That's why the Bible is so important. Truth stands higher than my individual self. Can we please move on from attacking each other, picking single experiences to do so? The genuine miracles: supernatural and natural both coming out of Bethel are changing this world. If you don't like them, then don't interact with them. You don't have to try and ruin the good that is being done there because you had an individually poor experience.
Joseph Chen Bill Johnson is on record saying Jesus wasn’t God and performed no miracles. They use tarot cards and Ouija boards. They tell you you can be taught spiritual gifts. They say if you’re not healed it’s just because you’re not a believer. They do grave soakings. How about you research yourself and stop defending this devil inspired cult
It is great that she is willing to share her story. It is not easy to talk about yourself being decieved for so long. It is humbling but important. Hats off to her.
Are you saying that we cannot hear the voice of God today or that what Bethel teaches about hearing the voice of God is wrong? I do believe God speaks to people today but what is said should line up with the word and character of God.
Elizabeth, Even Peter himself said that aside from all of his experiences, we have a more sure word from God...That's the scriptures. If everything being said must line up with scripture anyway, I would suggest the error eliminator would be to just start with scripture and commit it to memory as much as possible...There is NO NEW Revelation from God, I'm sure you'd agree that if there was, It should surely be in the next updated edition of our Bibles maybe an ammendment section like "What God said to Fred" or "What God said to Christina" That's ludicrous to think YET "Jesus Speaking" books are all the rage to teach us that there is New Personal Revelation from God. If you want to hear God speak, Read your Bible (Hugs)
@K S Thank you for your insight. I went to a prayer meeting at Brooklyn Tab. church years ago and didn't know the people around me. I clearly heard what I believe was God say, "tell the woman next to you that she is youthful in My eyes." I was nervous to say it because the woman next to me looked to be around 80 yrs. old. I felt so strongly that God was directing me and so shared it. The women started to cry, and said she had just been crying out to God recently about whether or not to take on a ministry opportunity. She felt too old. She kept saying, "But God I feel so old." I had never seen, met or talked to this woman before that evening. It gave her peace to proceed into that ministry opportunity.
@Elizabeth Davis People ABSOLUTELY hear the voice of God today. God won't go against His Word, so if someone "hears" that adultery is great...yeah, please question that voice! Honestly, people of almost every denomination listen to God, they just have different ways of saying it "I didn't feel peace", "I felt peace", "I felt lead", "I heard a word from God". They all believe in discernment, words of wisdom...but they pick and choose a few gifts to blacklist - usually because they saw some wacko doing it wrong (therefore it must always be wrong, always, right?!). In my personal experience, "hearing God" started off as general impulses/convictions as a teen that pushed me into Godly things or pulled me out of ungodly things, but the more you walk with God in all areas of life, the clearer, stronger, and more detailed it becomes. The "impulses" are a person - the Holy Spirit. Who made people who only hear vague impulses from God the God-doesn't-speak-in-specifics-police? Just because they can only hear vague yes/no/maybe discernments from the Holy Spirit, they feel they have to shut down anyone who has learned to hear Him more specifically! "Well, you're allowed to feel lead or convicted, but you can't hear any detail...because...God doesn't do detail." So, God can say "yes", but he can't say "yes, because [some reason]"? Or He can give you discernment that a business deal is wrong, but refuses or is unable to give you a hint of detail as to why? Or He can say "your child is having a hard time", but wouldn't dare give you insight into what he wants to address/heal in your kid's heart that drives bad behavior? If anyone tries to blanket-shut-down gifts of the Spirit, THEY DO NOT HAVE YOUR BEST INTEREST IN MIND. They are omitting/ignoring enormous amounts of the New Testament to hold this stance. Question their theology to no end and more than anything, just get in the Bible and read, read, read. Notice the huge quantities of people that God moved through in some supernatural way or another. Read church history and revival history. And most of all, don't let a few over-hyped-experiencial-crazies here and there define truth for you. If you saw a bad guitar player (or 1,000 even!), that doesn't mean guitar sounds bad or guitarists are bad, it just means you saw bad guitarists. If the Bible says "Pursue love, but eagerly desire spiritual gifts - especially that you may prophesy"...and keeps saying stuff that aligns with that all throughout the New Testament AND Old Testament, then don't let anybody doing it wrong make you throw out what's clearly right.
Rob Mullin I used to be skeptical of the holy laughter and I know that some people fake it but it wasn’t fake for me. I received it when I was coming out of a cult actually called Fellowship of the Martyrs with Doug Perry. It was horrible and I had gone through a lot of spiritual abuse and emotional abuse. The Father shone His light on my heart and drew me to Jesus as he showed me that He truely cared about me and wanted me to surrender. I let go of years of pain and bondage and I felt the joy of the Lord well up in me after it left. Joy is a fruit of the spirit. For every counterfeit there is the real deal. I asked the Lord to only give me what was of Him. The kundalini is a counterfeit of the real deal. I have seen that too as coming out of the New Age. You can tell by the Holy Spirit when it’s not of God. Not from your own understanding.
Rob Mullin One time I was at church, there was a specific song during worship that I feel was Got speaking to me of something that I was going through at the time. I cried uncontrollably for the length of the song, but it was happy tears. It was God’s way of bringing me to my knees and acknowledging Him in the midst of my circumstances.
Sigal Smadar Not necessarily! God’s Spirit can move our emotions when He ministers to us. I wouldn’t make an expected practice or doctrine out of it, but in God’s presence is fullness of joy, the Bible says. When you are full of the Joy of the Holy Spirit, it would not be a weird thing to react with laughter. This has happened to me, and had nothing to do with a Kundalini spirit. Anything God does, the enemy can and does counterfeit.
@@laurasanders5015 I find it hilarious and sad that we even have to SAY to people that "God can move your emotions" SMH. We have had a rebirth into a connection with our creator (WHO IS LOVE HIMSELF!). If this doesn't impact our emotions there is something missing! :)
As someone who attended BSSM....they regard scripture and the Word of God above everything. Also to say it’s a cult, is being misinformed. They encourage you to never take their word for it, but to search scripture and to have a personal intimate relationship with God. No opinion of the pastors are ever forced on you. They preach the Word of God in its entirety. Attending BSSM was the best decision I ever made and I grew so much that year. The pastors are deeply in love with Jesus. God bless you guys.❤️ I can see you are passionate about discovering truth. This is mine.
Sorry to say but I don’t believe you. One cannot watch a video of Bill Johnson talking and come away with an impression that Scripture is highly revered and their love for Jesus. Bill Johnson twists God’s word to make it mean what *he* wants it to mean. They also have new age beliefs mixed in and this is just to name a few problematic things. I am far from the only one who sees this and it’s all interwoven in his publicly available videos.
Please start praying for discernment and study the Word then you'll see how what bethel preaches is found no where in the Word even if they use the same language they aren't worshipping the same Jesus
I’m not associated with Bethel in any way, and I know little of their teachings. After watching this video I still don’t know much about what they’re teaching. If you’re going to claim they teach a false gospel you probably say something like, “The Gospel according to the Bible is...but Bethel teaches the Gospel is...” You should give the viewers the best opportunity to judge between your beliefs and what you understand Bethel’s beliefs to be. What I got from your video is you believe Bethel has similar orthopraxy to cults and the occult, but you didn’t demonstrate how those similarities are unbiblical. Let me explain. Clearly Baal and Asherah worship in the Bible are condemned as these are false gods. But before Moses and the Israelites built the first sanctuary and much before Solomon constructed the Temple Baal and Asherah were worshipped in tripartite temples with a court, a holy place, and a holy of holies, just like God commanded for His Sanctuary. Both had altars on which whole burnt offerings were sacrificed and onto which the blood of the sacrifices was splashed. Sin and fellowship offerings of a very similar nature were offered to both. The point is similarities alone prove nothing. The problem with ancient Israel was they often worship false gods-Chemosh, Molech, Baal, Asherah, the golden calves. It wasn’t that Israel worshipped Yahweh not fully understanding who He is. Who among us today would claim a full understanding of God? The problem for Israel was they didn’t worship God exclusively. Is Bethel preaching another God than Yahweh who is eternally the Father, his Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit? Are they preaching another Gospel other than salvation by God’s grace through faith in Jesus Christ-his death as payment for our sins, his burial as a testimony and evidence of his death, and his bodily resurrection to life which gives us the hope of new life in Jesus Christ? If so, you should probably explain that clearly at the front. If not, you should probably remove the video since you are then essentially bearing false witness. Hopefully I can find part 2 and hopefully you give a fuller explanation of your beliefs and your understanding of Bethel’s beliefs. So far I just see a guest who seems extremely susceptible to outside influence, and who is drawn to extremes.
Most of what is being said here about Bethel is Gossip and hearsay.You are absolutely right. They should give an EXAMPLE of something that Bethel said (not just what someone else says but what Bethel itself says) and then should where in scripture its contradictory. The Bible also says if you have an issue with a brother or sister then go to THEM 1st and talk it through, and if they won't hear then take other witnesses and talk it over and if they still won't hear THEN and ONLY then do you bring it before the congregation. I don't think there was ANY of that here. She just left and THIS "Apologia Studios" is using her to attack Bethel. "Apologia" means to give a defense for something.. I don't hear that happening here, just Dissention in the body. Just what Satan loves to do.
This video seems to require a lot of knowledge about Bethel. I only recently heard about them and clicked on this video because I thought I would learn more. I will have to check elsewhere for a bigger picture.
@@joyfuljaj Please listen to Bethel for themselves as well and don't just rely on what you hear or read 2nd or 3rd hand. Many people here are NOT Godly and Satan is the EXPERT on dividing the people of God.
I used to love Bethel Music then I heard they participate in the practice of grave soaking-or calling the spirits of dead preachers for inspiration-this is bad and it's witchcraft
Dude I was raised southern Baptist, just super vanilla. So its crazy to think one person can run into so many wacky groups. Thank God He kept her safe and got her out of there.
Yeah, we are supposed to hear God's voice: John 10:27-28.. so refine yourself and come to understand hsi voice, vs yours, vs the accusers: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Call For America she’s saying that she was mistaking her own thoughts for God’s voice, not that she didn’t hear God at all. She talked about what she heard from God and the Holy Spirit
@@jacobgarcia4826 well how about prophecy? Words of knowledge, words or wisdom. What do you hunger and thirst for? A new church roof? No. We want two way communication. With God but that takes discipline of the flesh.
11 years chronic pain healed when Bill J visited my town. Nobody’s perfect - including yourselves - so girl, forgive and get over it. (BTW, fellas - trashing the bride of Christ.... I’m certain Such actions make the father of the bride really pissed.)
David Makaroff ... I’m happy to hear the Lord healed you🤗. I have a good friend whose been walking w the Lord many years and suffered from terrible, debilitating gout for many years. Tried everything medically, nothing helped. He was healed last year during a Bethel service. He’s so thankful. And uses his healing to share Gods love and build His kingdom with great passion. He loves Jesus so much.
Matthew Hoffman, cool !! Something stood out to me in your words. I know Bill J alone didn’t heal me, and yet I love the incredible paradox that is evident in scripture - and shouldn’t be feared. While we know it is God’s power at work in us (ie “the same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead dwells in you”)... the truth in tension is Jesus command to his followers, “Go.... heal the sick”. He actually tells US to do it - because “I am with you always”. Is it okay to say “Bill Johnson healed me because God is with him?” That doesn’t theologically bother me one bit. Acts 10:38 says that even Jesus performed His miracles because God was with Him.
40:17 - freaking out about being able to hear God's voice and yet Jesus said "my sheep hear my voice". IF you can't hear God's voice, you are not his sheep!
i agree build something. i was just thinking the same thing when she was talking about hearing Gods voice and making it sound like that its not possible, the same scripture came to me "my sheep hear my voice and they follow me".
@buildsomething I am sorry but you are reading that txt out of context. It’s an analogy so do not take it literal. You hear God’s voice by reading your bible aloud.
COULD NOT BE BETTER SAID ..... Rhonda Renuard 12 hours ago Beware! The people in this video are wrong! They have no idea how the Holy Spirit moves during a powerful service. In the Book of Acts, people were speaking in tongues loudly when God moved, enough that it drew a crowd. In another instance, the place was visibly shaken to its foundations. In the Old Testament, God moved so strongly that the priests could no longer stand up on their feet, but were prostrated on the floor in God's presence. If the people in this video were present when those situations occurred, they would probably also say that it wasn't of God bc it looked strange to the eyes. When the Holy Spirit moves in a "Book of Acts" type of way, there will be shouting, dancing, leaping for joy, speaking in tongues, prophesies and interpretations, healings, anointing the sick with oil, demons being cast out, laughter and "fullness of joy," people lifting holy hands, the wave offering (an Old Testament practice that involved lifting one's hands up in worship during sacrifice and swaying them back and forth, such as when the people waved palm brances during Christ's triumphal entry), the heave offering (an Old Testamant practice that involved lifting the hands up and down in worship), shuckling (rocking back and forth intensely, which the Jewish people have done for centuries during worship and continue to do to this day), and even sometimes quaking under God's presence, such as what the Roman soldiers experienced when the power of Jesus busted open the tomb. It's sad that many Christians today in America have never experienced Pentecost, and when they do finally see it during times of intense Revival, they are so shocked by the way it looks and sounds that they say it isn't of God. I understand that this video was conducted out of sincerity based on ignorance of the topic, but beware not to trash the moving of God's Spirit! To your credit, I will say that, as with any revival, there will always be people in the congregation that may not be of God but will attempt to mimic the manifestations of the Holy Spirit, such as the woman with the evil spirit that followed the Apostle Paul, but that doesn't discredit the entire revival movement. Study the word of God in its entirety and embrace the full gospel, including Pentecost, and you'll find out that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit isn't some weird Kundalini spirit, which you've ignorantly called it, but is the power of God at work, which the eyes and ears of the flesh will never comprehend because it must be spiritually discerned.
Very true, it grieves God that these ppl are attacking Bethel, Heidi Baker, and other mighty revivals, and mighty men and women of God being used today, and calling them cultic, heretical, and even going so far as not being saved. Sounds like these ppl arent truly saved, or at least have judgmental, vengeful, religious spirits attached to them.
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Thank you for your testimony on Bethel. I have been n 3? different groups that were controlled,so-t-speak, by rules or one man or a few men. I am currently n fellowship wth a group that are pro Bethel. I also question the music, the spirit(s) & atmosphere of the meeting. I appreciate the leader,but concerned abt the theology of the music. Pray for me. Rbn
@@robinharper2838 WALK AWAY NOW IT'S BETWEEN YOU AND OUR LORD GOD CHRIST JESUS NOT YOU AND A GROUP OF SPONGES YOU ARE TO AWAKE AND AWESOME NOW TO GET ALONG WITH PEOPLE WHO AREN'T THE SAME WHEN THEIR ALONE AND REALLY RUDE IN A GROUP
@@robinharper2838 You need to get out of there...I have a lot of experience with these people...I am an "older" person now...I would say, "Get out of there before you really get warped." It doesn't get any better "with time."
@@robinharper2838 Sometimes we can be "swayed" because we respect the "leaders" or if we have friends there...That was my experience, but I HAD TO get out for my own sanity...!!!.......
What an amazing episode. However, I wish you guys would have let Lindsay speak more instead of routinely interrupting her and going on long expositions of your own thinking. She is an extremely bright and capable speaker and she didn't need you guys trying to direct her thinking. Her story was compelling and she was clear in its telling and describing her thinking and emotions. To me it was very frustrating to have you guys jumping in and taking over the conversation and interrupting the flow of her story. Sometimes the best interviews are the ones where the interviewers say almost nothing.
Stop expecting a church or pastor to save you and look to Christ. Open your bible.
A H 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Amen
TRUTH!! I go to Bethel. I know Bethel has many problems, just like any other church and any other pastors. It has still taught me so much about the Bible and relationship with Jesus. BUT, it has not given me salvation, it has not given me Christ. That is something everyone has to do internally. No church can save you. :)
The church of Jesus is really His people..He is the head and Christian's are His body...i found Jesus and His power thru the Holy Spirit but not in a church...the churches out there are teaching things that the Lord says are not from Him and they do not help someone in spiritual battles...church has become a business...sad but prophetic...stay in the Word of God to stay in Jesus truth.... desperate people are looking for help they know about Revelations but still are putting off the Word of God to glorify themselves...I have been in many of these churches who preach prosperity and do nothing to expose sin and lead people to healing from the Lord ...I have seen the beast standing in the temple of the Lord hasn't anyone else seen this ? Thx for waking people up...by sharing God's working in your life.
Yes I follow Apolus, I follow Paul, I follow Joyce Meyer, I follow pastor such and such. Did they die for you?. We want a king just like the Israelites did. God gave them Saul think about it. Don't settle for following anyone but the King of kings Jesus and him alone.
I grew up going to Bethel, and a smaller church with the same beliefs. It wasn’t until I just watched this video that I realized, everything I’ve been taught, everything that made me so uncomfortable about God, isn’t true. Thank you for this, I feel like I have to relearn everything from now on. Thank you for opening my eyes
Praise God, that He opened your eyes!!! But by the way, being baptized in the Holy Spirit isn't wrong, just some of the experience chasing "signs and wonders", not sign and wonders themselves.
I wasn’t in a cult church I’d say, but a rigorously religious one, and I had the same experience. I had to re-learn Christ once I finally left, and thankfully entered a church that has been very kind and helpful to me.
I hope this comment reaches Lindsey Davis. This is not a plug for her book. I personally met the author. "Walking with the enemy" A testimony by Cathy Read. The first cult Lindsey was a part of was the spirit of anti christ. Now when it comes to Bethel they basically steal from a ton of "ministries." I have met some of the people behind it or were involved with it. I can explain it from Benny Hinn to the Toronto outpouring and the "ministries" behind it. I can explain it. I may write a book debunking it all. As far as doctorine goes. I can even explain why they built their relics museum. When it comes to grave sucking even King David prayed and asked God to keep those in the grave from Speaking. In the book of Romans the bible says not to say in your heart to say who is going to ascend or descend. They lay on the graves of precieved saints. Who is to say famous so called Christians from the past didn't fall away? I believe the Holy Laughter movement actually comes from the idea that the saints will laugh after the lost are cast into hell. But it's premature judgment and sensationalism. Seducing spirits may actually come from accursed angels; Benny Hinn. It is Like the one that is feeding the Mormon cult, it is first peaceable and gentle but not easy to entreat because there is hatred behind it. There are two reasons Mitt Romney lost to Obama. Fighter verse. "Greater is He that is in me than he that is the world" And sometimes when it is a false prophetess you may have to say she the is in the world. Itching ears. Spiritual abuse. And dabbling. Spiritual idolatry. It is the apostasy. They say that the church in Africa is an inch deep and a mile wide lacking knowledge regarding spirits. People perish because of a lack of knowledge.
Hey sweet friend, your comment really touched my heart. I really love you!! Jesus wants to partner with you in this journey of relearning :)
@@tobascoheat6582 CG JB. Rag
Eeeeeerrrimdsss oddsreee see dzzdzdxxddszzsßesdx as. Thanks
NOTE: If you want to hear God speak, Read your Bible. If you want to hear God speak audibly...READ IT OUT LOUD!
Hah, that's a good one and generally great advice. I don't doubt that God does occasionally speak directly to people, I've seen enough sincere testimonies that don't end up like the possession freakshows at Bethel. God also speaks out loud through people or whatever media. When you get that answer, you know you got the answer you'd been seeking.
@@saintejeannedarc9460 Hi...I sort of disagree a wee bit...Ya see God is speaking only truth, and only truth can be found in "His word", But that truth needs to be correctly defined and accurate. For example John 3:16 ...that "Whosoever" believes in him...Well, on that day the folks saying Lord, Lord will have certainly believed in him prior to hearing the next words of depart from me. The demons believe and tremble (They're actually more respectful than we are at times...at least they tremble) and mental assent to the belief in the historical Jesus in and of itself will not save. My point is that what we hear through our own minds, media, and other people is suspect. As peter (who witnessed the ressurected Christ and the assension ) said, Aside from his experiences, We have a far more reliable and sure word of prophecy. In short...If you want to hear God speak...Read your bible. Aided by the Holy Spirit & diligent study we can accuratekly "Hear what God is saying to us"
@@azbugman1 I understand and mostly agree. Perhaps I'm not explaining well and let me make clear that I'm not a supporter of Bethel type manifestations and spent years warning people and disproving this demonic movement w/ the word as well. I'm just saying that I've had many questions to Jesus about the word, doctrines I maybe don't understand or personal guidance. The answers can come from places other than the direct word. They need to not contradict the word, of course, but the answers can come from various places or through different people. Hopefully that makes more sense.
@@saintejeannedarc9460 Hmmm, I think i get your point...God says that even the heavens declare (speak of) his Glory, and God does work through providence, and other people...I agree. The only caution I would have for anyone is to label the conclusions you draw because of any of those things as suspect & subject to inspection based on Gods word. I'm basically lazy, and if I have to constantly return to Gods word to check out everything i do, say, or hear, then I'd rather just start there and set up camp on that spot. lol Thank you for the interaction, I appreciate the dialouge.
@@azbugman1 I appreciate you tactfully challenging me to make sure I'm on track. Good talking to you too. God bless.
As a former Jehovahs Wittness it took me years to see it as a cult. I was disfellowshipped and it was the best thing to ever happen to me. I was super involved but always questioned and had doubts. God took me out of there and forgave me and I now serve Him in the right way!
Hallelujah ❤️🙏❤️
God is so merciful 💖
@Amanda Hanson if you lack knowledge about scripture you are no match for them. I am not trying to be mean but I would know the Christian standards and the bible first. ❤️
Praise God He saved you from the watchtower liars.
@Amanda Hanson Greetings sister. Just read this comment after listening to the video. Were you able to send them away?
I came out of Occult/New Age, even worked as a psychic, when I recommitted my life to Christ. I was so shocked at the lack of discernment in the churches and amongst Christians. People think if it's Occult connected it's all spooky and in your face. It's much more subtle than that but she's spot on, if you're well founded in the Word of God then you'll know the difference. God gave us brains and we can trust knowledge of God's Word to show us what's true and what is false.
If it was so "in our face" it wouldn't be called "Occult"... it's occulted from many!!
Jesus said my sheep know my voice and will not follow another. This is very true. That small voice in u will always let u know something isn't right and if that voice is jesus, it will get louder.
Seriously, I couldn't agree more. EX: Satan appearing as an angel of light. Now, is that with the horns and pitchfork in your face? More like the depiction in "The Devil's Advocate". Also, where the rubber meets the road is so often in the realm of Ethics. EX: one Sister figuratively eats meat sacrificed to idols, another Brother can't go near it. The former is stronger, the latter is weaker. No sweat. Don't do it around the weaker brother, BUT the weaker brother must strive to NOT be filled with the Flesh in pride, a haughty eye, gossip, playing God in total judgment. This happens in anything from how we go about our days, use of time, entertainment, hobbies, interests, engaging with the world, views on and use of money. Many areas of life. And just prefacing a statement with "The Bible clearly says..." is not a slam dunk accurate statement. Greater discernment usually comes with time / life / trial & error / humility / context / a view of a BIG God, and especially not making God into our own image, so to speak.
( A gifted prophetic sister at my old church community many years ago once prayed for me and received some "words". I tell ya, the first half of what she prayed / prophesied applied, was accurate, but the second part was her rambling and didn't truly apply to my situation in life. I thanked her for the prayer, then committed the Unpardonable Sin: I gave her feedback over the First 1/2 On and Second 1/2 Off prayer / prophecy from her. She smiled briefly, then it vanished into the look of one deeply offended, almost like she was scorning me. HOW DARE I TELL HER THAT SHE WAS OFF IN ANY WAY?! LoL. Well....maybe she isn't a prophetess. No big deal, keep learning and growing. Isn't remaining humble a foundation to Christianity? I'm very intuitive / prophetic as well, but there have been too many times where I thought I "knew" what was going on, YET...turned out to be wrong. It's sobering, a good reminder of humility, but shouldn't be so "offensive"...unless my pride is involved. If so, then good that it takes a beating again. )
@@machtnichtsseimann Amen!
Some of these groups seem very New Age to me, and you're right - unless it's very openly dark etc they just don't discern anything.
I've found several of the christians who are so keen on all this very easy to manipulate and deceive. Just fabricate a story, or 'an encounter with Holy Spirit ', or make up a problem - and they're hooked, keen, believing every word. Now, if I, a christian with no evil intent can do this, then what about someone with a dark spiritual agenda? These people are so very lacking in spiritual discernment and wisdom, I see them as unsafe.
Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry sounds like Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry
It does make it tempting. 🤣
Pretty much the same in God’s eyes
nts
Add a public comment...
SHELBY HAMBRIGHT
To All reading this post.
The Gifts are not what the Holy Spirit has ..they are WHO HE IS..HIS VERY CHARACTER AT WORK. He uses his character to flow through His children to the body to comfort, encourage and give boldness to witness.PERIOD. It is not a magic show or a badge of Holier than though. Yes people fake, yes people seek a sign but not the relationship. Yes this woman was wrong to say "make it up" Yes the video poster was wrong to say all Gods children can not phrophesy. But LET EVERY MAN AND WOMAN NE A LIAR BUT MY WORD BE TRUE. The bible says as Paul is recorded to say"EAGERLY SEEK THE GIFTS ESPECIALLY PROPHESY. Not for the gifts sake, not for our egos sake, not for a show, but to encourage, and embolden believers to witness.
The bible says now we see through a cloud darkly. Phrophesy will cease when we see HIM FACE TO FACE and we will know HIM even as we are known. It is wrong to throw out Gods word based on the actions of people. Do not accuse a whole group of people based on your experience.That is biased and stereotyping. Instead I encourage you to FORGET WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD ABOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT AND FIND where God gives to believers in Christ His Holy Spirit to those who ASK HIM.And that when Paul went to Cornelius home that was already a Christian friend he asked Cornelius "have you received the HOLY SPIRIT SINCE YOU BELIEVED" if Paul is wrong here through out ALL Paul said. The Baptism christ received when he was dipped in water is available today after your salvation forgiveness experience. The gifts ARE still in operation and fakes and thrill seekers are nothing new. Not a sign of the times it happened back then and will.continue until He takes all His children Home. Be careful .Guard your words.Thus saith the Lord. Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness.
...OR a new version of the OTO
What she described about them getting her to try and “see her angels” sounds exactly like what I did when I learned mediumship and chanelling. Thank God He saves 🤍
It's because it is mediumship under the label of "christian." It sounds like a Reiki technique. You have to be careful. There's guinine gifts from God; however, there's also great occult deception. Just read the bible & pray.
@@DavidRomero-vj4ld spot on. Ive been a "Reiki master and teacher 3rd and 4th grade in the line of Mikao Usui". I did channeling, angel encounters, all the crazy demonic stuff they celebrate at Bethel Church. Its absolutely, exactly the same. The teaching, the practises, the spirits, the sensations, the warmth, the supernatural experiences, the being fooled- and the one Jenn Johnson declares to be "silly, funny, sneaky, blue" is actually occuring violet and his name is the name of an old alchemist, connected to free masonery, which is as mask again. (Lord St. Germain/Lord Well done). Its a trap of Satan, and i will wonder till the last day whether Bill Johnson has been trapped and blinded and fooled- or if he is a very clever Reiki Master mocking christians. I dunno. I really dunno. Its up to Jesus to know his heart and true intentions. I cannot see into his true motives at all. I know, those spirits of "ascended masters and angel energies" really draw you in and totally destroy your possibilities to see the truth. And yes: There are genuine gifts from God. But they are all pointing to the authority of Jesus Christ alone and NEVER contradict the bible nor fulfil selfish striving for exaltation.
So what do you think about Elisha praying "Open his eyes, Lord" over his servant Gehazi? Was that also mediumship or channeling?
No, they are completely different. Her roommates were not praying that she would host angels in her body or have angels speak through her mouth.
@@DavidRomero-vj4ld You also have to be careful about the out--of--control shaking that goes on in Churches like Bethel...This reminds me of the "Kundalini" stuff that some Hindus and Sufi's do.......
One of the Fruits of the Spirit is SELF--CONTROL...I don't see a whole lot of this in "Bethel" or "Blazing Fire.."
I think as soon as someone tells you they rely on a feeling, then its dangerous.
I've lived in a very similar cult and it was rough. The social pressure to have the "signs" is so intense. I'm so glad I could get out and can enjoy the freedom in Christ that comes through the gospel.
Same!
You one of those poor folks who couldnt speak in tongues? I never understood that about the UPC. Its just one sign. Paul himself says not all speak in tongues. Love is the greatest gift.
Yes just as Simon (Petros the small stone said later when was able to allude to the miracle He saw when Jesus transfigured Himself to have a conversation with Moses and Elijah and God the Father said to all 3 fishermen including James and John. Listen this my son in whom I am well pleased . The Father reminding them Your Father in heaven is setting up this vision He shared with them. Peter tells us far greater then any miracle is the Word of God and His Commands . God was showing His kingdom coming to earth and how the scenario of Moses and Elijah who held fast to every word that came from the mouth of God is how we obtain the mind of Christ as His every Word is the bread of Life . The Logis become flesh and dwelt among us. Miracles of God are not secondary but miracles is not foremost for God to call and choose justify and sanctify on earth. We do not believe in miracles nor perform miracles to become a heir to Gods kingdom. We believe in Jesus who is the Way the TRUTH and Life eternal. We all do not do miracles but we all plant seeds of truth according to the Word of God and not our precepts that always turn to self indulgence. The worst sermon I ever heard Bill Johnson make and all of his sermons nauseate me though I have no anger towards him is when he did a commentary on John Chapter 6. He completely misconstrues the meaning of the phrase when Jesus say you must eat my flesh and drink my blood which taken literally is shocking but when Jesus walks up to those who were murmuring within earshot . Jesus said my words are spirit. Meaning I’m not speaking in the tangible . The flesh profits nothing. Obviously Jesus did not say here bite my forearm and begin eating my flesh and drink my blood. Of course many had heard enough sermons from Rabbi Jesus that would never even teach to consume the blood of an animal . So Jesus immediately told them I am speaking figuratively. The Passover supper Jesus had with His disciples breaking bread and sharing the cup of wrath with his chosen showing them what His body would go through as He would defeat death and sin for mankind proving the agape love ❤️ that no one but God could do in the flesh . God does not resemble mankind . Mankind is made in the image and likeness of God.
This young woman has a story that needs to be heard! She can speak to her generation with wisdom beyond her years! I pray for open doors for her and that nothing will blindside her!
I agree! She is so well-spoken at age 18.
100%
Yes if they would have LET her speak (more)
@@alybaker1YES!!! I was hoping I wasn’t the only one that thought that. Very frustrating!
I feel this. I grew up charismatic/Pentecostal and went to IHOP and their conferences and had friends went to their school. I always thought I was less spiritual and/or less anointed because I wasnt receiving visions or new revelations like everyone else. I felt like God didn't love me because he wasnt giving me what all these people around me were getting. Then I unknowingly ended up at a Baptist bible college where my world was flipped upside down. Praise God for protecting me from all that. When I was duped into thinking I was not loved by God, I found out that God was protecting me His daughter from falling into further deception and heresy! Praise the Lord that He is faithful to call and keep His children!
Amen sister! ❤️❤️🙏
@@thebanneredmare9190 You were sensitive to the demonic influence behind such teachings and activities.
Where do you live? Was this in WA state?
Thats silly...your bible says Love is the greatest gift. God protected you from your own hurt feelings. You were walking in a state of greater gifting and blessing than the people you wanted to be like. Myself I believe in all the gifts but I also know my bible says the GREATEST gift is LOVE :-)
It is one stream and a good won, maybe not for you, though. I would not judge, though !
Rick Warren , in his book The Purpose Driven Life, said that God uses your experience even more than the Bible to teach you things. I immediately was bothered by this statement when I read it. There was no way that could be true since my experience does not lead me to truth. Only God’s Holy and infallible Word leads me to truth. My experiences must be tested by his word. So this is an example of what you were saying about this type of teaching that pays lip service to the scriptures while undermining them in these subtle ways (which really are not that subtle and should be discerned by Christ followers). Thank you for these broadcasts that are so helpful and informative.
Very well stated. Rick Warren is more subtle in his heresy and says a lot of true things but it is odd that once you analyze a few false teachers, you can usually detect most any false teacher within a minute of hearing them spew their lies and manipulation.
Woow your comment is really meaningful
Woow your comment is really meaningful
@@JK-cz6bu.....yes you can...Amen!!!
Rice Warren is a member of the CFR and a Freemason. Satanic NWO organizations. Bethel church is different, it is a beautiful community of believers.
She's 18 years old? Wow. Very mature. I like how level-headed she is, like a bulldog holding on to the word of God.
What? That is impressive. She looks and talks like she‘s 25.
It is almost scary hearing this testimony because I can almost relate to some of the things that she is describing. I came really close to embracing the ultra-charismatic prophetic practices, but it all lead to confusion and manipulation. I give thanks to God for leading me back to his word!!!
Ugh me too.
We thank God for delivering you out. Glory be to God
Once one gets outside the Word of God, they end up in the false teachings of the charismatic movement.
I STUDY God's Word. And I do work in the prophetic. I am still young in this gift, however, when God uses me, most people will look at me know ask...How did I know that? God is good!
@@CarnivoreNana "Clouds Without Water." Check it out on RUclips. Also there is such a thing as a familiar spirit that is not from God.
I enjoyed watching this, especially Lindsay's continued pressing for truth and rejection of falsehood. Most 18 year olds are not in this place I suspect.
She's amazingly wise-beyond-her-years.
She has a very strong gift of discernment.
@@sanramoncali eh... not so sure about the discernment
God began opening my eyes about Bethel last fall when I was listening to their music to worship. It wasn't just them he was opening my eyes about it was also hillsong and Joyce M.
Be weary of Elavation too. I don't know if you come across them as well but they are in the same league.
bethel church needs serious help
I remember the day my eyes were opened to just how much Joyce Meyer looks like the joker with all her makeup
What is the issue with Joyce Meyer and hillsong church? I had no idea!
Joyce Meyer is definitely a wolf in sheeps clothing can we get an Amen about Joel Osteen too?
Honestly I’m coming out of such a scene. So I’m currently a boarder at my school and due to covid none of us are allowed to leave the school and go to our respective churches. So to combat that, a few Christians started a prayer group (I started boarding at the beginning of 2021 so I found it already established). What they taught or what was the norm there is completely different to what I learn at my actual church. Like completely different.
At my church the teachings are all based on scripture and whilst I do have to learn to place what they say against scripture for myself, that’s what I believe.
Literally almost everything she went through, we have done those things. I have personally done these things; the “holy” laughter, the violent vibrations, the visions, being drunk in the spirit and even at some point “imitating God” (tbh I don’t even understand what that means anymore but at the time I copied what I thought was holy and what I thought meant you were in the spirit and God was working through you. All these things I had seen and wanted to emulate. This included dancing around in a specific way, which was something I had learned about in a conversation; being an ‘oracle’; and moving around and falling over several times)
My heart hurts just thinking about all the things I’ve done. All the times when there has been questionable and just odd things that I chose to ignore like:
-The fact that Bible study died out a loooong time ago
-People felt so out of place as if they weren’t good enough which resulted in them leaving
-Us never ever sharing the true Gospel. Not even majority of the sermons we watched.
-That insane “supernatural” things would happen at our worship nights and personally I felt a secret pride and superiority over people that chose not to attend. And I felt that way even about everyday meetings
-The fact that I felt unworthy literally 90% of the time
-And now (what God has revealed) is that we were constantly chasing something supernatural.Like a gift or ability. Constantly trying to prove you’re a Christian by manifesting these gifts. By proving your faith through works and what you can do and which gift you have.
-New people RARELY ever coming and when people come to watch the Sunday service, they leave halfway (which broke my heart). If you have no clue who Jesus is and you come to see people dancing like crazy in the front and doing their own thing (which must seem super “spiritual”) whilst you have no clue what’s going on, it’s lonely.
I’ve had conversations and overheard conversations whereby people avoid the group because they feel so ostracised and judged. It hurt me.
…………….
Literally one thing I remember is the aim to walk in the spirit but not as the Bible says, but basically walk in a different realm other than reality. Like you should walk and see angels and be separate from reality. I was there. I had “seen” angels and a which standing over someone. I don’t want to believe any of that anymore.
I actually started being skeptical of the spiritual deepness (for lack of a better word) of my actual church. Which just shows how far I had been pulled from true doctrine. At that group I relied on emotions and experiences, and God helped me see that.
Now I’ve been chosen to be a leader and I know that He has shown me these things not just for me but to share the truth and expose what is in the darkness, as she said, using scripture. I’m so grateful that God showed this to me because I’m not alone and we have to do this for His Kingdom. May He give me courage.
I know this has been soooo long but I had to get it off my chest because I can relate so hard.
Im watching videos like this because my parents and brother are all in on bethel. I was raised in the assembly of God church and was always told about how great bethel was. My family moved to austin and joined their church. Earlier this year my mom was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and, thank you Lord, she is in remission after undergoing chemo. During that time i struggled with faith because they would tell me that its God's will that everyone be healed by faith. I then learned that Bill Johnson's wife recently died of cancer. I panicked because it meant that if my mother died, maybe it was because i lacked faith. That lead to many prayer sessions where i cried my eyes out for guidance, because i believed if my mom died, that my faith would die with her. But it was also during that time when i began to question the rationale and began to learn to rely on scripture. So now i struggle with how best to minister to them when bethel's grip is so ironclad and was enlarged with my mother going into remission. So now i study the word to prepare myself for spiritual warfare. Pray for me and my family.
Why don’t you have a bethel pastor on? I think you’d be surprised by what you hear directly from them.
They have refused multiple times despite invitations.
I understand they won’t do the kind of interviews that would expose them...watch Bethel on RUclips, listen to the podcasts, you’ll see and hear it is not the word from Christ. In fact bethel pastors don’t even preach with an open bible, that in itself is a huge red flag.
@@tracys7057 TRACY ..... WITHOUT A DOUBT, ..... YOU ARE AN IGNORANT MORON.
Maryam Maghen Bill doesn’t have to answer to ppl like Lindsay, cultish, you or anyone in religious bondage and lies. He has God and the fruit of the Spirit of the multitudes of ppl touched by the Holy Spirit to justify His harvest into God. He and anyone else have more important things to do for God than to pay any attention to religious devils.
They are biblically reckless. Anyone who really knows the word has the same concerns.
I remember Rodney Howard-Brown promoting the "Spirit of Laughter" through the churches in the 90's. I called out my pastor when this took place at the church I was attending and was told I did not have the gift of discernment, so I could not possibly know what God was doing. My family and I left that day and never returned. I have been very vocal in my area about cultish teachings and the perverting of God's teachings and his word. Keep doing what you are doing!
Ummm...how was it a "teaching"? Secondly, if the Spirit of God made them laugh in joy,why are you against that? I'm really just curious. Reasoning being is in late 2005 I met a true prophet who spoke at my church. Her name was Mrs. Pearl she was about a 40 year old petite African American woman. Two minutes into her sermon her voice changed and the Spirit of God fell on her MIGHTILY. She spoke and knocked EVERYONE ( almost 300 people that day) to the floor. You could feel this Spirit of God EVERYWHERE in the church. She prophesied a lot,to different people in the crowd then called for anointing oil and began laying hands on people. I went up three separate times. The first time she touched me I just felt : Love... It was a memory from my youth when I had been about six years old. On that day I was riding around with my mom,and sister and her friend and her kids in her mini-van we were in a subdivision near the border of the town they lived and rounded a corner and when we did I saw the largest wall of honeysuckles I had ever seen in my short life. The HOLY Spirit had touched me that day,but I never knew it. Till that prophet laid hands on Me. I just felt love and remembered the memory. It was God. He had been there all along. I shouted "I remember YOU!" The second time I fell down when she laid hands on me and all I felt was just pure happiness. The THIRD TIME when she laid hands on me I fell down again and I laughed. It was like a child-like joy. There was nothing really hysterical about it. I'm 110% certain what touched me was the Spirit of Almighty God. Theres no denying it,and God left nothing to confusion. Now my question is. Why would you be against that? Its obvious you've never experienced it because what I experienced could in no way be confused with a work of the flesh,or any other spirit besides The Holy Spirit. To read what you wrote,and actually know what I know, its rather frightening to read what you wrote.
@@barbaraGobert31 your experience must be interpret by the bible not the bible by your experience...we are emotional beings that's great...but our emotions are not the Holly Spirit of God....no where in the bible is that behavior spiritual
I think you have to be careful not to lump everyone into the same category. This is the problem with moving from one extreme to the other. The scripture is clear about the gifts of the Spirit and out of your bellies (spirit man) would flow rivers of living water of the Holy Spirit or being dry and closed off to a move of God and the other extreme is trying to force a move of God. I have been touched by the anointing of the Latter Rain, Charismatic, and Joy move of God. I can tell you with an absolute conviction aligned with scripture that these were true.
Nobody in the Bible falls backwards except the arrest team that goes after Jesus.
Everyone is either on their knees or their face. Many times trembling.
Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control.
SELF-CONTROL!
All manifestations involving loss of SELF-CONTROL is NOT the Holy Spirit. You only need scripture to have discernment. Thus "Holy Laughter" "Slain in the Spirit" and all other strange things where people lost SELF-CONTROL was an act, total rubbish emotionalism or a different spirit. (Danger: It was Not the Holy Spirit.) Do not follow them.
In fact, without quoting scripture, you KNEW this was unbiblical and suspect, you demonstrate you had the gift of discernment right then and there (and bravery for standing up to him), and that pastor did not!
First, thank you to the guys who host this program and brought on this guest! Lindsay, thank you for having the courage to publicly share your experience and testimony! Stay true to the bible and His word. "Peace be with you."
when jesus was tempted by the devil, he used scripture purposefully to teach us the power of Gods word.
louis hart Boom. Yes. Your comment is literally the only one needed to be read here.
Not when you're writing Jesus' name with a lower case j
@@Whol3NothaL3v3l I really don't think Jesus took or takes any offense to a lower case J being used. I do, however, think that He would take offense to your nasty comment. Judge not lest ye be judged.
@@donnacaulfield9229 that was nasty? Lol
I want to comment on this young lady and her bravery to face this issue with such grace and dignity. I won’t go into my story but will say I was involved in a hyper faith cult back in the 80s and I so relate to the experiences of coming out of a cult. I am so moved over by her knowledge of what was revealed to her of the spiritual darkness and to find her way out. I want to thank you for this video and will pray that those who are caught up in this cult will hear what is being said. May she never question that God gave her light and the ability to articulate with such ability and knowledge beyond her spiritual age in such a short time frame. You go girl! God has called you to this challenge. My prays will be for you!
We have unsaved people seeking God while avoiding repentance. The God of the Bible is a wonderful God! But He will not stroke your ego. He doesn't have to bend to your sinful nature to be a beautiful God. And He is Great and mighty. But you have to be humble and repentant. The God of the Bible resists the proud
Well said
Amen Sister!!
I don't think that is what this video is about.
Sidenote: FYI repentance doesn't save you and without receiving the wisdom from God and the holy spirit, whose job it is to convict. Most new believers do not know the depths of their wickedness until sanctification occurs.
I don't think the issue is lack of repentance, I think it is straying from the Lord, the word, and not allowing the Spirit to lead them to repentance. The issue is allowing emotions to lead instead of God.
Very true
Amen sister
Too much commentary from the interviewers. I came for her story. Let her tell it!
Yup me as well.
They have an axe to grind against Bethel. So their message is already biased.
So, what exactly did Bethel do wrong?
@alphant1 Not with you on that one. Jeff is a top notch preacher and evangelist. Critique if you will, but a disrespectful one- liner isn't offering much to any cause.
@alphant1 Care to back that slander up with some evidence?
Apologia, I find your videos are important but frequently unclear. This video doesn't explain what Bethel is, who this person being interviewed is, or what the false gospel that Bethel teaches is. I trust you are correct in your assessment and I admire your passion, but the videos are sometimes very hard to follow for this reason. Clarity is key! Submitted with humility, God bless.
No offense bro it's not apologia's job to get you up to speed with who Bethel is, majority knows who Bethel church is except you
@@HipHopTV_Official not really.
@@HipHopTV_Official it isnt yours or apologia's job to be God and proclaim 'truth' and dismiss Bethel or others who has led more ppl to Jesus than you, as cults or false teachers. Obviously they are doing something right for you all to accuse them of being devils.
@Scraxkat fwiw, my friend at BSSM knows her, and no-one has cast any real doubt upon it (she could be easily debunked by Bethel if she hadn't attended)
@Just Me - Satan wants you to "experience" him - Nowhere does The Bible talk about "experiencing" God - This experiential movement is not grounded in The Word of God
Wow!....i have been through a VERY similar experience for 30 years. I did and still can "speak in tongues" if someone asked me to demonstrate it. And fell over "by the Spirit" 😢. Only by God's grace have i truly become born again and live my life by the Word and turn from sin in the last 3 years.
1 year ago, i have been diagnosed with a stage 4 brain tumor that docs can't do anything about. They gave me 6 months to live....1 year and 1 month ago. I wake up each morning thanking God that He gave me another day to be a father i never had and minister to my young kids....to teach them and warn them of what false teachings their teachers in science will teach them on evolution....and to watch out for churches with false doctrines....TEST EVERYONE by God's WORD! If it was not demonstrated for us in the Word.."watch out!"...tongues were demonstrated totally different than what charasmatics teach. I am not afraid of death... personally i look forward in being with my Creator. But i know everytime i open my eyes, God is not done with me yet. I still have time as long as i breath to make fishers of men. Thanks brother Jeff, i've learnt many things from you...and also one of my favorite youtubers...Ray Comfort from Living Waters.
What an incredible testimony. As things become darker we need oil in our lamps. Develop a close relationship with the Holy spirit, reading the word of God and fellowship with other true believers. God has your back and we need to have a filter, discern everything, be narrow minded bible believing. Teach your kids and whatever happens they’ll always return to Jesus. Bless you you friend.
Pray Jesus for healing. It doesn't cost you a penny.
@@sophieca6906 Thanks for the advice, i have my whole church and people in other countries praying for me including my kids, wife and myself. Praying we Christians are allowed,...but overall let His will be done. God knows if it is best for me to take me now or in few years. Do yourself a favor and watch the movie "The Pilgrim's progress" by John Bunyan... fantastic film 👌. Nothing beats being with "the King" for eternity.
God bless you!❤
@@savedwretch all love to you, in Jesus loving name.
Already within the first minute I'm shocked, and I've watched an (if not this specific one) interview with her before. She got KICKED. OUT. For sharing the GOSPEL. That is absolutely shocking. But at the same time, it makes perfect sense considering all the heresy... heartbreaking
I was not there (and neither were you), so I don’t know what was said, but any message that denounces the role of Holy Spirit in the Church is NOT “the gospel” but, instead, is heresy.
@@NB-no7lh What you believe about the Holy Spirit is not the Gospel. John writes down in black and white what the Gospel is.
*For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life*
Nowhere in the that verse does it say what the Holy Spirit does within the church.
Your beliefs seem to be an idol that is changing the Gospel into what you want it to be.
Those guys talk to much....let the woman talk
I thought, or think, they are conversing. This seems like a discussion/interview where she is sharing her experience though dialogue; in other words, they seem comfortable as if talking around a table rather than a formal monologue (typically a show will only show the one guest speaking while sharing their experience), type of interview.
tommy gotz, They’re just trying to push their narrative. That’s a Red flag
It's them talking most of the time - I would have preferred to let her talk more ...
I don't agree, it's a good interview
Being a former Bethel student I had to watch this. I became closer to God when I left bethel. Most of my former classmates have walked away from God.
People walk away from the Lord because they want to. If they truly knew the Lord they would not walk away from him. They clearly never knew him in the first place. It is not the job of any church to bring anyone closer to the Lord. We are responsible for our own relationship with him.
EDIT: two years of following Jesus can change things drastically as we increase in wisdom. I don’t totally agree with my statement... I think church leaders have an incredibly high level of responsibility as they are called (usually) to nurture and feed the sheep. Lots of deception in these last days. May we as the body of Christ never submit ourselves fully to ONE movement or ONE church but be open to the full council of the Word and not just hang around in one stream for too long. God has so much for us! (This is not a knock on Bethel, I went to the school and found my home in Redding but if you are looking for solid Word teaching then you probably won’t get it- Bill and Kris have a specific mission and mandate, so when you don’t feel you are being fed move on, don’t go and cry about it to the rest of the world, I’ve had to learn this the hard way)
Also if you are abandoning your faith in Jesus you either never knew Him or you’re in love with the world... REPENT before it’s too late.
H T. II how is a Trinitarian church preaching against the scriptures?
@@H.T.2forever
Seek *FIRST* The Kingdom of God. If you sincerely desire to *know* and *follow* Jesus... THEN return to asking Yah to guide you into all truth-including what The Living Word of God says and does not say. 1) Accept Jesus Christ as Messiah - The Living God who is Salvation. Jesus is the perfect judge. He is the one who made all things. He is the one who holds all things together. He made all things for Himself. He is worthy of all praise. As you walk as a surrendered disciple of Jesus, then, The Holy Spirit is the helper and the still small voice is your guide.
2) It is Jesus Christ of Nazareth that is THE Head of the church. Not a pastor, not a guru, not a theology, not a system of thought, not an affiliation, not a demonination or denomination, not the opinions of man. Opinions (mine, yours) and Religions of Man are going to leave you dry and will keep you from beholding The Lamb of God. The verses from the Bible will either make you new or they won't. You are either for Jesus or your against him. If you are seeking outside things (ascertaining theologies -looking laterally at people, offering up your opinions and critique's of denominations and faith's, yet you are not picking up your cross, dying to self daily and following Jesus, you are not going to partake in life more abundantly.
There is authority to speak God's Justice and mercy. Or there is giving your opinions about the trappings of religion while not speaking at all about the heart of the issue. Which one will you choose?
There is a way that seems right to a man but leads straight to death.
So are you born again?
Thank you for replying.
BROSIAH have you read Luke 8? It seems your buddies were not rooted in God and fell away.
Is todd white legit?
When she was telling us about the so called “holy laughter” How they were laughing and cackling while pointing at her was just like that demonic movie The Evil Dead.
Yeah I was listening to this and dozing off very relaxed when suddenly the "holy laughter" woke me straight up and gave me the chills and goosebumps. I thought what the heck is that? I looked at the video and turned the volume down. Not good.
I think that was Kamala doing the cackling.
WOW. You guys talked WAY more than she did. Sheeesh. Let her tell her story maybe?
There's a part 2.......
I agree.
It's a podcast, that's to be expected! :)
Mary Joslyn I thought the same thing, then realized there’s a pt 2, so I’m guessing to stretch it, they helped guide the first episode so the 2nd part makes more sense. Just a guess though
Uhh they are the interviewers maybe you're all wonky and need to just GOOSFABRA! sheesh!
I believe these types of conversations are very dangerous, they look a lot more like gossip rather than rebuke.
Justin I thought I was the only one who would say things like this. Conversations, prayer requests, etc can all look like it’s a good thing but actually it’s gossip.
Jessie Alexander how much time have you spent at bethel or submitted under Bill Johnson? When it comes to the prophectic if you don’t fully know it’s best to keep quiet. Gods nots in heaven applauding this because these skeptics know everything. Maybe there are communities in the church with great revelation of mysteries.
@Justin no absolutely not God is speaking to me right now because I came to this conclusion earlier in the day and it's no accident that I came to this video right now. this is confirmation that God spoke to me earlier today and this is exposing false teaching. and the Bible says that we are supposed to expose that. Now THAT is actually a command and Jesus' own standard.
Justin Little trolls always arrive in the group together right? so you can pretend to back each other up as if like strangers.
No. You're lying. And you KNOW that you're koolaid drinking defensive trolls.
@Justin And to answer your question I've been to Bethel, I can spot you a mile away. Memorized all the classic manipulative phrases designed to distract and insult. I could recite them to you in my sleep.
I've been there for years I've got personal experience. Absolutely attacked anybody who read their own Bible and thinks accordingly with what IS written. Like the rest of the world does. Not like any group or Jim Jones and crew.
You. ARE. AFRAID. Of the TRUTH getting leaked about forced theories. Open your Bible and spend three whole hours reading it and learn something for yourself.
I really appreciate hearing her testimony here. I also left a Bethel school. It was a sister school of Bethel and it was nuts. It's validating to hear that my concerns had/have substance.
I was in a NAR church for 9 years. Kris Valiton came to our church he prayed for me to have my leg grow. (I have Cerebral Palsy) nothing happened.
I’m sorry that you didn’t see the miracle you were hoping for. I have seen this miracle in person and it is real. I hope you see your miracle one day and if you don’t I hope you know that you are loved🤍
The way we discern if something is of God is by the Word of God- and that my friends sums up this amazing interview. This whole “I feel God told me...” language has infiltrated so many churches even really biblical sound churches. I’ve caught myself saying it too. Woo! This was a good one!
God spoke to people Biblically, so give me the Bible verse that says He stopped speaking to people. God revealed Himself to people Biblically, so give me the Bible verse that says He stopped revealing Himself to people. God performed miracles Biblically, so give me the Bible verse that says He stopped performing miracles. The answer is He hasn't.
@@gabrielgibson3479 Exactly. I agree there is a lot of misuse of the words 'God told me...' and it's kind of become Christianese for 'what I feel is true...' BUT that doesn't mean that God doesn't speak to people.
@@gabrielgibson3479 You are spot on, Brother. This is about people being uncomfortable with the supernatural and not wanting to know Holy Spirit. The Church has put the word “the” or “Your” in front of Holy Spirit and refers to Him as an “it”, but Holy Spirit is just as much a person as JESUS and plays the greater role in this dispensation. Christ completed the work at the cross and left us with the gift of Holy Spirit, but many Christians are being as spoiled little brats on Christmas morning, complaining about the gift they’ve received. Cessation is a false doctrine purveyed by Christians who do not know Holy Spirit. So you don’t like tongues. So what! It is not up to you! Paul said in 1 Corinthians 14:39, “Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues.” (NKJV) You are commanded NOT to forbid speaking in tongues. Churches that do so are in sin and GOD will deal with them.
Honestly, I just got out of a very bethel group, and hearing your story is helping me greatly. Right now, your speaking the true word of God, because it is biblical, truthful, and it will help people truly find God.
I personally have some qualms with a bit of Bill Johnson's theology, but I won't throw the baby out with the bathwater. If you have ever watched a Bethel service, it's pretty hard to deny that those people love the Lord. The way they worship, the way that they proclaim His lordship over their lives with abandon, the true Gospel that lies at the core of their beliefs (you may argue otherwise but they believe that Jesus came to die for our sins, was resurrected, and lives today to restore relationship between God and humanity -- that is the Gospel), the way they PROCLAIM JESUS AS THE CHRIST (1 John 4:15) .. Biblically speaking, these are our brothers and sisters, members of the body of Christ, and we should treat them as such.
This MacArthur Kundalini hysteria is all rooted in fear. Jesus made it pretty clear during his ministry that, if we ask for an outpouring of the Holy Spirit, He will give us just that and not anything demonic (Luke 11:13). Do you assume that those people over at Bethel are shouting, "Kundalini, kundalini, kundalini!" as they open themselves up to be possessed? LOL. No. They go hungrily to God the Father, in the name of Jesus, begging for a fresh encounter with the Holy Spirit. Should they be constantly walking on eggshells in their worship service, wondering if what they are feeling is of God or of the Devil? Heck no! What a miserable way to serve the Lord.
If you have ever read a Bill Johnson book, you would know that he in most cases, right off the bat, claims to not have it all figured out. He admits that there may be errors in his way of thinking that God may choose to reveal to him over time. Those kinds of statements come from a man who has been trained in humility. Like I said, I'm not 100% on board with his theology, but I choose to love him and the rest of my brothers and sisters at Bethel because that is my mandate from God.
I respect your desire to know and practice the truth, but there is a fine line between that and accusatory divisiveness. The latter is a cancer to the modern day church.
Amen. So right on. It's sad that the enemy just wants to divide the body of Christ!!! Love your heart friend
But what god are they worshipping???
They worship the One true God. Christ alone. I won't sit here and deny that there are areas in their ministry that need some repentance but no ministry ever has been perfect besides Christ Himself. It's about a body and the godly gifts they do have they operate well in. It is our job as brothers and sisters to pray for others when we see them walking in error in any walk of their life.
Also just because their doctrine doesn't line up with the way the "gospel" has been preached in America doesn't mean it's wrong.
The gospel for too long has been watered down and based on human failure rather than the grace and sovereignty of God and Bethel is not scared to go after the pure unadulterated gospel of Jesus Christ. Of course they are gonna be persecuted for it just like Jesus was!
Beware of the form of godliness with no power friend!
Blessings and love to you
@@wordsofourtestimony6390 Yes and amen!
She should have left. Changing Bethel would be like trying to change the Roman Catholic church. It's not going to happen.
Apologia.. let the girl SPEAK....
Both of you dominated the conversation TOO MUCH..!
Guys, it's an interview, and a conversation...not a monologue. If that were the case it would be only her on the stage and only one microphone.
Yeah, seems like people don't like any authority or control as in conversations they Apologia are leading and guiding the conversation if you don't like well... you can get on the internet and complain. SMH!
When someone tells you God told me to tell you..... I would say well God can speak to me too and He hasn’t told me that.
That ain't right either bud
My response would be this, "Let me stop you right there, I hope you're aware of who you're claiming to speak for". Deut. 13 & 18.
Yeah right!!... This so called prophesies can come with very disturbing news that'll make you depressed sleepless throughout the night!
This is a very responsible conversation. Those of us within the Charismatic Movement can learn a lot from this and allow the Lord to refine our language and practice. Bless you.
SA Tabernacle With David Lee Brown facts!! I also think it’s very important to differentiate between what Bethel teachers through its leadership and what members/students practice
There's always something to be learned. Bill Johnson says it regularly, he has a lot of critics and instead of reacting to them he looks for some hint of truth he can learn from. I hope this group of RUclipsrs would do the same.
@@HezUhlive22 God does not compromise his word, nor partner with darkness or the doctrines of DEMONS!!!!
The scriptures do not say the bible is the foundation of truth. (Aka Solo Scriptura). Because the bible wasn't written until many years later. Protestants believe in Solo Scriptural even though the bible doesn't say this is so. It says it's the church. The bible was put together by the Catholic church. Protestants dont have a church. They have over 40,000 churches that all differ slightly in there interpretation of the Bible and what Christianity is. They do not have a sole authority. They don't have a council that all decides what is right or wrong. If you don't agree with your churches pastor, you just drive down the street and find a different church. Protestantism has no foundation, no traditions and no authority given to them by Jesus or Peter. Peter was given the Keys to the kingdom and the sole receiver of Authority. He started One Holy and Apostolic church.
@@JesusChurchBible
I'll address some of your points.
Scriptures don't have to say they're the foundation of truth but they ARE. Catholics didn't write the Bible. Where'd you get that from?
The catholic church is the largest, most deceiving cult ever. A cult demands control, always at a price$$$.
Jesus gave us freedom through his love and grace by his work on the cross. He commands no praying to Mary or dead saints, no baptizing babies, no confessing to a priest, none of it.
Rather than spouting what Catholicism has taught you to believe, you should provide scripture.
2 Tim. 3:16.
I learned so much I didn’t even know that I needed to learn. This put holy fear in me and makes me want to read and pray even more. These doctrines and false prophets are so dangerous, God have mercy and deliver us.
Amen.
The scriptures do not say the bible is the foundation of truth. (Aka Solo Scriptura). Because the bible wasn't written until many years later. Protestants believe in Solo Scriptural even though the bible doesn't say this is so. It says it's the church. The bible was put together by the Catholic church. Protestants dont have a church. They have over 40,000 churches that all differ slightly in there interpretation of the Bible and what Christianity is. They do not have a sole authority. They don't have a council that all decides what is right or wrong. If you don't agree with your churches pastor, you just drive down the street and find a different church. Protestantism has no foundation, no traditions and no authority given to them by Jesus or Peter. Peter was given the Keys to the kingdom and the sole receiver of Authority. He started One Holy and Apostolic church.
@@JesusChurchBible Jesus is the foundation of truth, and He is the Word of God.
John 14:6 ESV
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 1:14 ESV
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
A false Jesus cannot save. Very true.
Occultism died when it was birthed . Yesua died so we could be born after being birthed
Michel Haineault trinitarian: a person who believes in the doctrine of the Trinity. How is this not the real Jesus. God the father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit
@@michelhaineault6654 So are you saying that there are three gods or infinate gods like mormons believe? Or perhaps three gods like the Jehovah's Witnesses believe? Do you acknowledge the deity of Jesus? Please clarify.
@@michelhaineault6654 - So . . . there is one God (Yahweh) with 3 personages, Father, Son and His Holy Spirt? Not sure where the disagreement is?
Are you questioning the eternality of Jesus? By ETERNALITY I mean that He has no beginning and no end (not timelessness as Mormonism teaches).
Cuz the Bible has a lot to say about that, if that's an issue for you.
The only fake jesus i see is what is in 90% of americas dead churxhes wake up people you can not be a pharisee. You can not find god my analyzing scripture its about spiritual relationships.
I encourage people not to make judgements without personal experience with Bethel (or any church) AND a conversation with a member of church leadership. Because Lindsay has not spoken to leadership, her comments become gossip not completely backed up with truth. This is NOT how the Bible counsels to handle disagreement!
donnasearch1 God’s Word ONLY, not man’s. The leadership is teaching false practices and doctrine. Bethel refers to the “Bethel experience” the “Bethel Culture, “they think, they feel”, sorry, they proof text...it’s only God’s Authority in His Word. You say Lindsay’s comments are gossip bc she has not spoken to leadership... she was there, she got kicked out. Bethel’s doctrine is false because they ignore God and His authoritative word.
southerngirl2181 I don’t. She is just one more person who confirms the false teachings and doctrine from Bethel. Scripture is to be taught in light of scripture and in context. Something you rarely see from Bethel. They teach false, unbiblical practices - drunk on Holy Ghost wine, Holy Spirit laughter and convulsions, fire tunnels, Sozo, that Jesus gave up His divine nature and became fully man 🤦🏻♂️. We must defend the integrity of the gospel. Christian doctrine must align with God’s word, not man’s emotions, feelings and what THEY think. It is not the gospel of self and feel good and we are to call out false practices, teachers and doctrine in kindness and love.
Further points on false teachers:
A false teacher “advocates a different doctrine.” False teaching may take many forms. It may deny God’s existence, or teach error about His nature and attributes. It may deny the Trinity. Error about Christ’s Person and work is also common in false systems. Those who deny His virgin birth, sinless perfection, substitutionary death, bodily resurrection, or future return show signs of a dangerous infection. False teachers also teach error about the nature, Person, and work of the Holy Spirit. Yet another strain of the disease of false teaching denies the authenticity, inspiration, authority, or inerrancy of Scripture.
At the same time, another mark of false teachers is what they deny. Their teaching not only affirms error, but also “does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Timothy 6:3). False teachers are not in agreement with spiritually wholesome and beneficial words. That believers need to pay attention to sound, healthy teaching is repeatedly emphasized in the Pastoral Epistles (cf. 1 Timothy 1:10; 2 Timothy 1:13; Titus 1:9; 2:1).
False teachers are not committed to Scripture. They may speak of Jesus and the Father, but the heart of their ministry will not be the Word of God. They will either add to it, take away from it, interpret it in some heretical fashion, add other “revelations” to it, or deny it altogether.
~John MacArthur
Wow, I thought, here it comes, the big news about Bethel. In summary: This lady is shocked because people are laughing during encounter with God, demons are being cast out, people are being taught to heal and this lady is not experiencing the same.
Matthew 10:8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cure those with leprosy, and cast out demons. Give as freely as you have received!
The joy of the Lord is my strength.” -Nehemiah 8:10.
I think you guys are great in sharing the Word, but criticising this part of the Bible that you don't apply, nor follow goes too far.
Jesus gave this as a command. It is not a suggestion.
Matthew 10.8
As I read it, it's a commandment for the 12 apostles to go to the people of Israel and not the gentiles.
@@inshadow2000
John 14:12-14 New International Version (NIV)
12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
Jesus said. Whoever believes in me... Do you believe in Him? Then it applies to you.
@@inshadow2000 it's like saying almost no scripture applies to us because it was written to specific people, like the letter to Galatians is for the Galatians, so there's no need for us to read through it because it was written for them... Jesus spoke to the Jews, so we shouldn't take in what He said to the Jews, which is almost everything 😂... Seriously?
@@JebbMichael Of course Jesus is not talking of doing greater miracles than He did. Of course I believe that the sick still will be healed and demons will be cast out. But only through the power of Jesus and only when it's the will of God. Tell me - what do you believe that verse 13-14 means?
I believe that what is meant by greater things, is what the followers is achieving in proliferation of christianity.
MIKE SANTOS laughing mockingly at a student who isn’t laughing is my strength...
LAST DAYS!! Keep your eyes open, guard your heart, test all things against the Word of God! I’ve been Saved all my life and had no idea until recently, that these churches & movements existed. My heart & spirit is so grieved. I can’t believe how many people are following these False Prophets, Teachers & Preachers! READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
What a thoughtful, intelligent, truth-seeking young woman! Just finished listening to “Strange Fire” by John MacArthur, and you are definitely exposing the dangers of “using” the Holy Spirit for our own selfish, misguided purposes.
Using the holy spirit for our misguided I think u said desires, that statement made me think about that passage in the bible where people are saying to jesus, haven't I healed the sick in your name and raised the dead in your name and jesus said get away from me you workers of iniquity I never knew you.
I thank God for her story, however i think its important to remember that she is a New Believer. A lot of what Bethel does is way Outside of the context of scripture. But the gifts of the bible are real and are used to equip and edify the church. What she experinced as a new believer,im sure has left a bad taste in her mouth and i Pray healing over right now. With that being said Deliverance is a must in the Kingdom of God and somtimes that does look strange. Bethel has this hyper extreme view on the Gifts, but dont disregard the gifts and deliverence because of their perversion.
Bethel is properly identified as a cult. It fits how they operate.
X JW here. I was brought to a assembly of God church with my husband absolutely terrified as I usually expierence debilitating anxiety or have a real panic attack (not the new trendy version of being triggered but diagnosed c ptsd). My husband said if I felt nervous at all we would leave. Literally walking in the door to the church I was absolutely overwhelmed by Holy Spirit and saw for the first time true Christian love for EVERY kind of person. Nobody eyeying me up and down self righteously. I watch Bethel sermons often. I watch this channel often as well. I have heard it said find a church in your community. I am overwhelmed and confused by how to find the correct church. I love sermons using scripture constantly or like she says more meat. It’s overwhelming and emotional to hear the Bible used correctly and without the need to control. I guess I am just asking for prayer to find my home church. Even after leaving the JWs after my NDA at 18 (I was fully brainwashed before being born in) I still prayed before and during every single thing in life. I want a church. Please pray for clearity…
I had this awesome experience with God, I'm deathly ill and I've night I was scared beyond measure. Prayed to the Lord and I felt what felt like a heavy blanket of peace upon me. Upon going to sleep I felt a burst of a liquid loving living light fill me up and I could see a golden light. Never experienced love like that in my life!
Thats awesome man. What's sad is most of the people on here wouldn't believe you. I know youre telling the truth.
@@barbaraGobert31
That is still an experience and scripture tells us to trust the Bible not our experiences.
The greatest “experience” felt or witnessed in all of human history was by Peter, James and John seeing Jesus’ transfiguration (Matthew 17:2) and yet in 2 Peter 1:18-20 Peter explains this experience and goes on to say we have the prophetic word made MORE sure (the Bible). The Bible is surer than any human experience.
I have experienced unexplainable things as well, but I am not to rely on those experiences. I have no way other than God’s word to know for certain what He is saying or what His will is.
I grew up for 26 years in a setting similar to Bethel, so I’m not unfamiliar with this way of thinking. By God’s complete grace He opened my eyes.
@@barbaraGobert31 I’m one of the skeptics. I don’t think it’s sad when someone reserves judgment on things that are not in the scriptures.
I think it’s sad that people gullibly conclude that something is directly from God without even asking what the person believes about themselves, God, and the gospel. There are a lot of false converts having experiences that give them false assurance of salvation.
I also don’t confuse one-off events with spiritual gifts.
@John Eldred well, I do know I should of died, but here I am everyday. God saved my life and He is healing me of the damage I sustained. What did that light do for me? Well it was comforting. How do I know it was God? I read His word and talk to Him daily.
VERY EXCELLENT POINT !!!!
BY Random Neighbour
4 hours ago (edited)
Interview a leader from bethel and hear their perspective...they are hardly hiding. I'm not meaning to belittle Lindsay but she obviously has a chip on her shoulder toward Bethel. Interviewing her and using that to form opinions about Bethel is dangerous, this can spread false information and wrongful persecution (pure evil). Interview a leader and measure that against the bible. Come on apologia church/ Pastor Jeff, I would expect better from you.
Yup. very well put.
There are already 3 parts to this interview online, these are reposts of the 3 parts. In the last one they issue a invitation to Bill and Kris to come on the show and share their thoughts, the invitation has already been issued. As well she explains her heart more behind her comments in the others as well. Before making a final judgement on Jeff and Apologia, with all grace I ask you to have patience with people and not be to quick to have a finalized opinion until seeing all 3 and going to the Lord in prayer. God bless and grace be with you.
Victorious Pauper They are hiding! Whenever I’ve questioned a Bethel person’s beliefs on a Bethel site, I’ve been blacklisted, removed as friends and my comments have been removed. They censor their sites regularly. For services at Bethel sites, they keep a watch out for people who have testified against their teachings and have guards at the front doors that watch out for their naysayers and don’t let them into the services.
The ad that popped up after watching this says, "Are you ready for an unexpected healing?" Umm, no. I have to watch part two first ;-)
😂😂😂😂
And now Lindsay is right back where she started...in deception
Wow - it seems like Bethel says some “phrases” they shouldn’t say and has some students that may or may not be going off on their own without truth and understanding of scripture. This video still does NOT clearly layout what they said that denies Christ?? So they misunderstand some theology - but believing in signs and wonders are not a disqualification for being a Christian. What if the Holy Spirit did move on half the congregation and they were crying? Do they proclaim Jesus and his death and resurrection and that we are saved by his grace and not works? If yes, they are NOT unbelievers. Do they have some theology errors? Maybe! But so do you guys.
You quote scriptures and use them in your own context. Deuteronomy 13 talks about people that are preforming signs and wonders and then telling them to follow (clearly) other gods. Bill Johnson is not performing signs and wonders and telling them to follow anyone but the risen Son of God.
If you read the context of when Paul talks about false teachers and false gospels, he goes on to describe what the issues are that are false. It’s when they put works or the “law” in place of grace! (Galatians).
Or when they were calling him foolish and demeaning his Gospel! (Corinthians)
Be careful we don’t go calling every part of the body of Christ with a little theology error in their phrases or maybe just in their congregation, and classify them and everyone who associates with them as heretical!! Read your bibles.
“By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,”
1 John 4:2 ESV
THAT is how you know a false prophet. A false prophet in the ends times (Matthew 24) claims to BE Christ or show you a different (literal) Christ.
You will know them by their fruits. Read romans 12. Read 1 Corinthians 13 about love.
Remember Jesus said he would give us his Holy Spirit to convict us and give us discernment on right and wrong. That is in SCRIPTURE. Just as the Muslim who Jesus appears to that’s never read the Bible and has none CAN live a sanctifying life by the power of the Holy Spirit without the Bible. (Maybe that’s what Bill Johnson was saying? Don’t know cause never heard him more than a couple times).
All this to say - let’s unify as a church and correct each other in LOVE. Not by blasting a RUclips video without two or more witnesses declaring the proof they have denied Jesus Christ. You are SLANDERING the body of Christ is you miss this. That is SIN. Be careful.
Love them, and if they are wrong - let’s warn them as a brother, not treating them as a enemy. (2 Thessalonians 3:15)
Mr39Brown Amen. Your comments are rooted out of God’s love.
Dude they are trying to bring people to Christ through love! And not everyone who confesses Christ is a Christian, there are such things as wolves in sheep’s clothing. Christianity isn’t some hippy love, and accepting is not the same as loving someone. All of these made up terms bethel uses, uncontrollable laughter?!?! Convulsing on the ground?!?! That sounds like a horror movie. There’s no structure or foundation in the bethel church, it’s all about feelings there.
@@travis6694 TRAVIS .....YOU ARE AN IGNORAMOS. THAT IS FOR SURE.
Travis F Brother, ask God for wisdom in this. What you said shows you didn’t read what I wrote.
Sheep in wolves clothing scripture: read the next verses. “You will know them by their fruits.” That’s why I said read Romans and Corinthians. Judge righteously, and test the spirits. I don’t know what going on at Bethel, but I am not there. So the best I can do if I hear of something I KNOW is of the flesh and not of the spirit, then I warn as a BROTHER. If they denounce Christ come in the flesh saved by grace and not works of the law, then I can say they are heretical. Loving Christ is not “hippie” love (whatever that means), but loving Christ is A matter of the heart. And those students over there at Bethel are seeking with their heart something or someone. And who they believe there seeking is the risen son of God/son of man.
So if 100 people came to know the Lord at bethel church, and they see this video, as young Christians in the Lord, this May uproot their faith entirely. You may be ripping up the seeds with the thorns (if there are any). A video (whether right or wrong) based on the opinions of one person is not the way to uproot false theology within the church. Yes love is not always accepting, but it is patient and kind. Not arrogant or rude. This video is arrogant.
Yes they have some things at Bethel which sounds like foolishness, but God has chosen the foolish to shame the wise. Never be wise in your own eyes. What happens between someone with the Holy Spirit is not a formula. Just because it hasn’t happened to you does not mean it hasn’t happened to someone else.
I personally have been baptized in the Holy Spirit. I laughed and cried and felt the most peace I have ever felt as I was knocked to my knees (out of my control) and as I proclaimed the name of Jesus Christ as Lord.
That’s NOT the work of beelzebul. A house divided against itself cannot stand.
Mr39Brown you sound very prideful and manipulating honestly and a deceiver. I think you misinterpreted what I was saying, I wasn’t called you a wolves in sheep’s clothing or accusing you of doing anything. I agree with all of the things you have said. I was just saying my thoughts about what I have witnessed and how there are not many fruits according to the scripture at those churches. When a church does “love bombing” and never talks about repentance. Then yes they seeking another spirit and the scripture does talk about other spirits not from God that people welcome into there life’s. Hippie love is not a new term so I’m not sure whats confusing about that? It means you accept everything no matter what people do “in the name of Christ”. That no matter what a person does it is accepted automatically.
Okay, let’s get to the crux of one of the main issues here. Bethel claims to hear the voice of God by His Holy Spirit, leading to much of their “out of the box” thinking. And that’s a no-no. But then someone else who disagrees with their theology and practices is (and I will quote) “led by the Spirit” to stay there and challenge them after praying and “feeling” like that’s what she needs to do. And that’s okay. Huh?????
These are the exact same things, exact same practice, just played on different teams.
How do you reconcile the fact that Jesus has given us His Holy Spirit, and the Bible itself says He (Holy Spirit) will lead us in all truth, and that His sheep hear His voice, but it’s okay for (and I’m not blasting her because she seems like she is attempting to be genuine, I’m not calling her a bad person, or anyone else in this conversation) Ms. Lindsey or any other Christian to practice hearing from the Holy Spirit as long as it fits your theology? The Bible says nothing about how Lindsey should make this decision (directly), and it would be all extra-biblical for your argument against my claim. The Bible doesn’t say “in 2019, when Ms. Lindsey leaves this school she should...” No. A concept about hearing from God through His Spirit (maybe even tied to specific traditions of prophetic warnings or even “preaching the true gospel”) is then applied to the current situation. Which should be wrong following the line of thinking in this video conversation.
I’m a Christian. But I’m also a thinker and intellectual. And either we have the ability to be led by the Spirit, or we don’t. Either we can hear His voice for our individual lives or we can’t. You can’t have it both ways - only being able to hear the Spirit when it fits your theology. Hearing the voice of God (keeping out every other theological issue presented) is pretty cut and dry theologically, biblically, and practically. This is a supernatural practice. For Gods sake, what is prayer then? Just personal musings and reflection? We don’t need a God (or gods) to do that. This is a PARAMOUNT contradiction that must be dealt with. What does Christianity have to offer, then, besides a sociological and cultural framework to put into practice rituals that are labeled as sacred? Is that it?
I have never had personal (first hand) experience with Bethel (directly in Redding, but have experienced their worship nights or outreaches elsewhere) but have known people who have. I also don’t know Cultish very well. I agree that some of the reported practices and odd cultural norms sound very cultish (I do like that term by the way), but there’s a problem here with the logic surrounding a large portion of the Christian faith and practice - being led by the Spirit, hearing the voice of God, and those being directly related to prayer.
Maybe it’s a problem in Christianity itself. Hm.... thoughts?
In my experience, people love to fabricate a god that agrees with their experiences. If they experience only yes/no convictions from the Holy Spirit, they create a belief that someone who hears more detail - or even hears something that's not conviction of sin - is wrong.
They rarely stop to ask "Can I hear more detail than that's-good/that's-bad?", instead, they often say "that's weird" or "that's cult-like" - even if what they call "weird" is actually far more Bible-based than their beliefs!
@@willstern1692 I agree, creating a god or projecting a god that is similar to us or that is similar to our experiences is all too common. What is also common, which you elude to, is a fear of the unknown. So in these two concepts of projecting a known god and fearing the unknown, what we haven't experienced, creates a pretty large chasm to cross for a lot of people. I don't blame them nor the difficulty in crossing this chasm, but cross it we must. (and really, we cross this type of chasm in every aspect of life like getting your first job, being a first-time parent, overcoming peer/relationship issues, etc. In these cases we overcome the chasm.) In this case, dogma, ideology, and theological differences maintain the rift.
This is where the bible can be very practically handy, pointing out truths of the Christian faith that are "weird" and unknown, but challenging us to walk in them, just as Jesus walked, as he commanded his disciples to teach others everything they were commanded. No getting around the implications of that conversation (because that then means all the commands and teachings the disciples were taught are supposed to be taught to the people they preach/reach out to. And continuing, that means that very command to teach everything is applied again to the new disciples, and there goes the forever propagation of the Gospel and commandments of Chris).
I agree, you can't have it both ways. They feel one way and they are wrong, you feel another way and you are right.
Bless you so much dear sister. This video popped up after l spent all day yesterday in prayer about coming out openly with my deep concern about Bethel. I pray in Jesus name that the Lord uses your testimony to save many many countless people from the different Gospel. I too was lead into this chaos seeking a Church after being saved. It never really sat right in my spirit.
Unfortunately her & her husband have gone back into mysticism and dreams etc.
Pray for them please!
This is dangerous on many counts. Every commenter on this video, just bare in mind that you will be held accountable for every word you speak out by The Lord. To make judgments without hearing what Bethel leadership team have to say isn’t the way Christians should deal with these kind of issues. I’m not taking sides but we’ve only heard one perspective on what actually happened. Just saying 🤔
Bethel is demonic they tried to raise a kid from the dead and the leadership supported this
In the next episode, why don't you guys bring a charismatic into the studio have them tell you the difference between Bethel and Charismatics
amen...everyone tends to lump charismatics with the hyper(false)charismatics like Hinn, Bill Johnson, William Branham, Bickle, etc etc...
I was raised Foursquare and Assembly of God Then 16 years in Calvary Chapel it's all error begets error heresy begets heresy the Pentecostal shuxtering going on for about 120 years is manifesting itself as false signs & wonders the entire time tongues as in mono syllabic guttural utterings is presumption practiced as it is at the standard charismaniacal gatherings It is presumption God considers presumption as Abominable. If you are saved Study to shew thyself approved unto God a workman that needeth not to be ashamed . Stop with the gooey oooyey rubbish and rightly divide the word of Truth not some esometavibe that does nothing for The Way The Truth The Life through Jesus Christ and The helper he sent. The healing the speaking in other "languages" the prophecies all in the Holy Bible. Don't need signs and wonders that charismaniacal people are always seeking. SMH! Get back to simply Trusting and Studying as the Bereans did walk according to his purposes not always stretching to get more and more and more and more and more and more, ad nauseum. If you don't get it, forget about it maybe a given over to a..... is what is going on. Come out of the Charismaniacal Pentecostal rubbish. Silly superstitious rubbish.
Exactly !
@@IamGreatsword what are you even talking about? Come out of this mindset
@AnarchoRepublican God has brought unity just because there is false teaching doesn’t mean unity doesn’t exist
I detest Christian back biting, we are ONE body. These kind of conversations are where the enemy moves in against the body. If you have an issue with Bill Johnson and his teaching, bring it up to him and the church to discuss for clarity and resolution. If your questions are not answered, walk away and have nothing to do with him. The NT is very clear on this. To interview and "gossip" is folly. Pray for discernment and only follow Jesus. Most people can discern that their pastor is not Jesus and just a man who loves the Lord, doing his best to share what he has learned and introduce you to Him as well.
Less than twenty minutes in, and she’s been interrupted 3 times. 😬 great story, but I want to actually hear it all the way through
ToTTALLY!!! Just let her speak.....I don't even have a prob with Bethel but I still want to hear this young ladies story....
It's deeply ingrained, learned misogyny. Men (collectively) need to learn to just LISTEN.
I’m not sure I would label it as misogyny, that’s painting a broad brush. People talk over others because it works, and women are more likely to be agreeable and put up with it. I’ve realized this, and in some cases I’ve learned to speak up and say “I wasn’t done talking yet, I’d like to finish.” and I continue, and every single time it works. It helps to be forward and blunt.
@@steffletcher4736 Yikes.
@@lucylabrasseur2365 couldn't agree more and I think that's great advice
Thank you for this. I find it amazing that I have been out of this type of Charasmatic church since 2011 and yet I thought they were simply Pentecostal but it took a friend to tell me just this year that it's the NAR movement, which spawned out of the Toronto blessing. Sadly my father taught us this growing up and said we have to pray till we hear God's audible response. I would lay awake for months waiting for God's voicing and cried cause I never heard it, all the while my bible sat unread. I pray for my dad that he get out of this movement, he's 76 and has been in it for over 50 years which causes me great discomfort, but I know that the Holy Spirit can move even the hardest heart. Pray that it doesn't harden it further, but more so that God's will be done.
Thank you for your testimony, I look forward to part 2.
Praying for you and your dad.
I have heard from God a few times, and his people do know his voice, but it wasn't something I conjured up, it's in God's timing, but there could be years and years in between, and that doesn't mean we should stop trusting God or being patient. And we are also supposed to test the spirits, and what you're are describing sounds like torment and oppression. Yet there are many verses in the Bible about crying out to God and he will answer, and still there are many other verses in the Bible where God says you cry out to me, but I will not hear, and it all had to do with the position of the hearts of the people and he would not hear when the people were in continual rebellious sin right up until things got bad, then they cried to God. I don't think it wise at all to harden our hearts to hearing God's voice or believing that we can, but to try to use this as a way to feel powerful, gifted, special, or ultra spiritual is wrong. Dear God renew a clean heart in us and let it never be hardened to you, but stay humble before you, not thinking of ourselves too great. I know you wrote this two years ago, but I feel gratefully convicted, Because I would get depressed and broken hearted when I didn't hear from God, but God already showed the ultimate show of love on the cross! Thank God, this is so powerful.
Praise God for bringing this young woman out of this movement!
I am a defector from bethel as well. And I can tell you that what she's saying is absolutely correct. I just hope and pray that I can find other believers that understand these false doctrines and teachings that have spread across the nation like wildfire.
*ya theres a lot of crap thats caught fire -- Flaky Charismatics, Flaky Reformers, Flaky Calvinists, Flake Cessationists. Its a total CRAP fire. I agree.*
No church is perfect. Every church has humans, so every church has flaws. You have to decide what you are and aren’t willing to give up. I’ll give you one guideline: Overemphasizing love will not correct error, but emphasizing truth will lead you to the importance of love.
@@ricksonora6656 sorry that logic is flawed. You cannot tell me that father God was wrong when he said if anyone brings a different doctrine other than what was taught consider them a curse. There is no middle ground here. There is no room for your reasoning and logic of what you think is right and wrong. It's according to the word of God. And the Lord is very clear how he feels about those that mislead the sheep and teach contrary to what he says in his word. They are curse and we are to have nothing to do with them.
@@JOSHUAloves1 Enjoy your church of one. No, wait… you’d better not join it, because as soon as you do, it will get corrupted.
I believe it's possible to see Angels, but only if God chooses to show them to a person. If she thought she would see Angels because some friends wanted her to see Angels, it was never going to work. I think spiritual maturity would tell us that supernatural experiences from God are gifts from God, not something we can earn after we reach Level 99 Christianity by singing a ton of praise hymns loudly. We are to pursue God, not experiences, and then he may choose to give us supernatural experiences or show us things about the future. If we are only pursuing experiences, (even unwittingly, in her case) then we are only pursing experiences, not God.
Also, if someone claims that "God told me you need to do X", don't agree to it unless God told/tells you the same thing! It's common sense but sometimes even a demonically/internally inspired action seems eerily accurate and people never then go to God about it, they just accept it and do it. Bad Idea! And I say none of this in Judgement of Lindsay, she said herself that she was young and a spiritually young believer. I lay the blame for these things on others who guided her incorrectly.
I have had supernatural experiences where the Lord showed me things about the future that came to pass or gave miraculous provision in answer to prayer, or even gave me supernatural peace about huge life concerns. But again, I never pursue these experiences, I just keep praying, reading my bible and trying to follow God. I know other believers who have been show many more things than I have, but again, it's not a contest and I am not worried about it. Any church where experiences are required, expected or made contingent to following God is pursing the wrong things.
God can LITERALLY speak to in a small still voice, but knowing when it's God and when it's just our thoughts is difficult. I think it's important to say that, because some Christians are in the Habit of ignoring the Holy Spirit and trying to limit God's voice to their daily 10-20 minutes of Bible reading, shutting off God for the rest of the day. God is so much easier to deal with when you don't have to listen to his prompting throughout your day.
"Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said". Many Christians seem to ignore or forget this verse. It's critically important to understanding prophecy.
Everyone in the comments: Let her speak!!.
Me: I wonder what that room looks like when the lights turn on 🤔
Maybe let her talk a little more in part 2
agree! :-) although it's great to hear the guys too....I really wanted to hear her side of things!
They said Bethel is on the spiritual side of gifts lol. satan is a spirit man that stands in Heaven telling GOD to make people stumble into occultic spiritualism .. so true
Agreed.
I also agree. What they are doing is great but allow her to speak more.
I thought, or think, they are conversing. This seems like a discussion/interview where she is sharing her experience though dialogue; in other words, they seem comfortable as if talking around a table rather than a formal monologue (typically a show will only show the one guest speaking while sharing their experience), type of interview.
Got about halfway through this. Although I respect where she is coming from I am very disappointed at the one-sidedness of the conversation. Lots of accusations without much substance. Very unfortunate.
But this isn't the only instance of warning reports on Bethel. search for "grave soaking" How in the world can that be Biblical?? That's necromancy, what Saul was condemned for, and falls under witchcraft!
They practice the kundalini spirit. Check this out: ruclips.net/video/2r5fMUct_co/видео.html
Agreed. Not much substance
@@sigalsmadar4547 you should know that both leading pastors of Bethel have long addressed this issue and have denounced that grave soaking has ever been acceptable. Since when do the acts of students represent a particular church's doctrine of belief?
Sigal Smadar, witches have been known to try and tear down bethel in the same manner these people are.
If you ignore the gossip and listen to what bethel actually teaches, you’ll find out that you’re hearing lies invented by the accuser.
Never see anyone in the Bible being taught how to be a prophet?
Wasn’t Elisha training to be a prophet under Elijah?
Yes partially but there was also a school of the prophets.
Undivided, yes exactly :)
I had many of the same experiences (and far stranger if you can believe it) in the word faith churches in FL that she had at Bethel. I was in Rodney Howard-Browne’s cult. Randy White and (his then wife) Paula, Reinhardt Bohnke, Joyce Meyer. The Gospel came to me like a 50 degree air conditioner on full blast after a ten hour convoy in Iraq.
I guess Mr Wigglesworth and the miracles that followed was a lie as well. Hmmmmmm I've experienced a few manifestations of the Spirit myself and have became stronger in the faith. Born again is Born again period.
True.. Me too, lets not throw away the baby with the bath water...
The supernatural, the spirit and the Word must merge
@@brianmwangi5082 Let us bring together the ties that bind not divides. We are being divided enough culture, politics, race, on and on.
@@erikscross3969 a kingdom divided cannot stand
Not sure from this conversation what Bill or Bethel has or is doing wrong. There is no perfect church. Weird things happening at a church does not discredit it. And what? Wait, is this a man or a woman? Before taking the nat out of anothers eye, you must remove the log from yours. Bill uses numerous scriptures. This just seems like trying to find fault. What about all of the profound teachings at Bethel? Is anyone interested in talking about those? What about Bills teaching on being a person of prayer, healing, raising the dead, casting out demons, living a life of truth, the cross of Christ? Why is this not a discussion? The subject of Jesus is so delightful, Bill talks alot about that. People said similar things about Christ. To be honest, I'm a little cautious about these people and their person being interviewed. You should be preaching the gospel. The gospel alone saves and protects people who are truly after God from occults. Try it
@@naserianwindom5489 Well spoken. Check out Todd White and Dan Mohler on RUclips. Good stuff!!!
I knew this school had some crazy practices, but this is honestly way more wild than I ever thought!
I grew up liking Bethel from afar because I’ve been to the Internationa House of Prayer in KC many times. I have many friends who did the BSSM.
I do have to say however, that I watched Kris Valloton do an interview on TV where he gave a prophesy and immediately contradicted both himself and the Bible within 2 minutes. I was like: “oh no, this guy can’t keep track of what he just said and doesn’t know the Bible”. Then later I watched him lash out at people on FB who questioned him about anything - pretty ugly. That’s not someone I want to be like.
I produced a TV show, now streaming on Amazon about paranormal events and specifically created an episode about miracles, and shows “jewels” found by people at Bethel. Our South African post-production team couldn’t stop making fun of it - and honestly, it does seem pretty ridiculous. And the gems looked fake and placed there)
Mike Bickel himself at IHOP addresses all the weird spirit manifesters one time in a way that shocked me (because I thought he was all in to that - the loud “WHOAs” and the laughing and the convulsing - all the things that draw attention to someone and weren’t seen in the Bible). Mike said that the church tends to feel like a safe environment for people to act out their desires that can be more personally-led than spirit-led. That often these loud WHOAs, laughter, etc, are because someone feels comfortable to do them, rather than a manifestation of the Spirit. (I’m paraphrasing).
Do I think Bethel has God in it. Yes. God use donkeys, he used me, he uses Bethel. Have most of my friends been disappointed my Bethel and their BSSM? Yes. But that could be based on their expectations. Does Bethel seem to impact their community positively? Yes. Does Bethel seem to focus more on feelings than being strongly founded in the Word? Yes. Which is why there are such underlying issues - the foundation isn’t there. Is Kris Valloton probably a great guy who hears from God sometimes? Yes. But not in the two times I saw him, but we’re all human - it was just red flags for me as someone trying to be a leader.
The book “the Final quest” had a great image of different ledges on a mountain, and how we defend our own ledge. Bethel is ledge, not the destination, but someplace that an ASPECT of Christianity is done right. A place to learn that and move on to other places that can round you out in your journey
I am not defending Bethal. I have never been.
But here is a thought:
Who is pressing in to the Kingdom? Who is genuinely pursuing souls? Who is teaching people to break the stronghold of 2000 years of (religion without relationship)?
So if we actually find one, let's just call it a cult...nice. The Holy Spirit is a dart board to those unable to break certain yokes or people who would rather stand holding the punch than get out there and dance...speaking figuratively.
The Holy Bible is the chalk line standard of God's Truth, however I do not worship ink.
We are not called to worship Ink on pages, idolaters do that; we are called to worship the Spirit who reviels the ink to us.
Isaiah 9:6 Jesus Christ is Almighty God. To worship Him as such is to worship in Truth. He alone conquered the worst fear of all...death. So if death has been swallowed in victory, the only things to rely watch out for are the hope thieves. Those that call evil good and good evil. The accuser loves it when some unlearned spectator joins in on the dart throwing. So in Love, careful brethren.
When I was filled with the Holy Spirit at 17 I was hit with laughter, nonstop laughter. A life altering experience. If you want to know if a person is authentic, the Bible says only look to the fruit of the Spirit. Peace? Check Love? Check Joy? Come on somebody. My personal checker is whether a leader has as much humility as he or she does power. G Michael Price
RULES TO AN INTERVIEW,........... LET HER SPEAK AND BE QUIET!!!!! THIS IS RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!
I had to stop listening. I got so frustrated waiting for her to be allowed to speak. They mansplained her to death!
Wish we could have heard a little more from Lindsay rather than all your added input. Thank you for sharing anyways !
Brothers and sisters read your Bible and no one can mislead you.
“ I have resolved to know nothing but Christ and Him crucified” read the Bible, stop eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Jesus is King
fruitsoffire boom! 👍
That's an incomplete scripture!
2 Corinthians 2:2 says "For I have resolved to knowing nothing WHILE I WAS WITH YOU, save Christ and Him crucified..."
That statement implies that He knew other things, but while he was with them, what matters most to him was to teach them the revelation of Christ and him crucified.
The Holy Spirit shouldn’t be ignored in the church and I think that a lot of times He is. I will admit, as an 18 year old who has been thinking about joining BSSM for a few years now, that some things such as the Honey Pot are very weird, but I am not going to think something is demonic simply because it isn’t normal. That’s what many Jews did to Jesus. So right now I’m at a point where I understand that God is NOT restricted by the works in his word, but he IS restricted by what he has already said about his nature. In other words, God does not contradict himself, but he is always capable of doing more than we can comprehend. Nothing in this interview really changed my mind and made me think that Bethel is a cult, but I will definitely dive into the other interviews with the same hunger for biblical truth.
Become a Berean. Learn the WORD of God. Signs and wonders are for the jews. We should be led by the HS not manipulated by our emotions.
I think that these videos will help you. These videos are actual footage taken at Bethel of what they believe to be the "holy spirit". So frightening and disturbing.
ruclips.net/video/i-cXyCCLK3w/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/16H84rcaqyk/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/vtWEu_m9-H4/видео.html (steffany gretzinger is in this one starting at 8:55)
ruclips.net/video/VZkgY-bP7yk/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/vbEpJU1UMR0/видео.html
Honestly, this isnt even scratching the surface on what you kind find coming from Bethel
Bethel is a cult and there is tons and tons of proof out there on it and has been for Years..all you have to do is look. Heck allot of it is on there website.. Watching people going through the Kundalini Spirit worship stuff is enough, and that's tied to Hinduism and other types of worship with spirits. "Grace Soaking" just look that up yourself. Fire Tunnels, smoking the Spirit...it's kind of like Scientology, once your in getting out is harder than getting in . Cults prey on the weak. Always gave always will that's how Satan works.
@@Loves2HugItOut Amen, show the proof, expose and rebuke
Grave Soaking I meant ..sorry about misspellings
This is greatly needed. I've come out of the same type of stuff. Thank God for RUclips! I starting watching a bunch of RUclips videos by jeff durbin, paul washer, john piper, ray comfort, and Leonard ravenhill. I also watched videos about exposing the false teachings that I was around. Thank you for your work apologia studies.
Awesome. Praise God!!
I love Ray Comfort, too. :)
@Follow the Nazarene seriously happy you know and are exposing these guys and God has you doing his work. nice (i mean this in the most sincere way, not to be taken sarcastically)
Looovve Ray.
Dont go from one extreme to the other there is a middle ground. Calvinist theology is off in a lot of points. They believe once saved always saved and there is nothing you can do to lose your Salvation among a bunch of other weird stuff. They believe everything is predestined lile you basically dont have a free will. Or no matter what you do in your life good or bad it was meant to happen.
listen to David wilkerson.
It is extremely dangerous to judge anything: entity, organization, company, by one person's experience. For her to do that of Bethel, for us to do that of her experience. You take highly filtered snapshots of one experience and through your narrative see it one way when another person would see it another. We are not so amazing that my experience defines truth. That's why the Bible is so important. Truth stands higher than my individual self.
Can we please move on from attacking each other, picking single experiences to do so? The genuine miracles: supernatural and natural both coming out of Bethel are changing this world. If you don't like them, then don't interact with them. You don't have to try and ruin the good that is being done there because you had an individually poor experience.
Jesus said the world will know us by our love for each other. I agree with your comment.
Move on from letting people go to hell? Okay 🙄. This church is well documented on its false gospel. Doing nothing is dangerous
@@UrKillinMeSmaIIz what false gospel? How many of their teachings have you personally listened to?
Joseph Chen Bill Johnson is on record saying Jesus wasn’t God and performed no miracles. They use tarot cards and Ouija boards. They tell you you can be taught spiritual gifts. They say if you’re not healed it’s just because you’re not a believer. They do grave soakings. How about you research yourself and stop defending this devil inspired cult
@@UrKillinMeSmaIIz so, you're saying you haven't heard anything directly. Just from other sources.
It is great that she is willing to share her story. It is not easy to talk about yourself being decieved for so long. It is humbling but important. Hats off to her.
Are you saying that we cannot hear the voice of God today or that what Bethel teaches about hearing the voice of God is wrong? I do believe God speaks to people today but what is said should line up with the word and character of God.
I once heard God once! He said: "God". I had asked in my mind, what is the answer...God simply said God
Elizabeth, Even Peter himself said that aside from all of his experiences, we have a more sure word from God...That's the scriptures. If everything being said must line up with scripture anyway, I would suggest the error eliminator would be to just start with scripture and commit it to memory as much as possible...There is NO NEW Revelation from God, I'm sure you'd agree that if there was, It should surely be in the next updated edition of our Bibles maybe an ammendment section like "What God said to Fred" or "What God said to Christina" That's ludicrous to think YET "Jesus Speaking" books are all the rage to teach us that there is New Personal Revelation from God. If you want to hear God speak, Read your Bible (Hugs)
@K S Thank you for your insight. I went to a prayer meeting at Brooklyn Tab. church years ago and didn't know the people around me. I clearly heard what I believe was God say, "tell the woman next to you that she is youthful in My eyes." I was nervous to say it because the woman next to me looked to be around 80 yrs. old. I felt so strongly that God was directing me and so shared it. The women started to cry, and said she had just been crying out to God recently about whether or not to take on a ministry opportunity. She felt too old. She kept saying, "But God I feel so old." I had never seen, met or talked to this woman before that evening. It gave her peace to proceed into that ministry opportunity.
Audibly , absolutely Not
@Elizabeth Davis People ABSOLUTELY hear the voice of God today. God won't go against His Word, so if someone "hears" that adultery is great...yeah, please question that voice! Honestly, people of almost every denomination listen to God, they just have different ways of saying it "I didn't feel peace", "I felt peace", "I felt lead", "I heard a word from God". They all believe in discernment, words of wisdom...but they pick and choose a few gifts to blacklist - usually because they saw some wacko doing it wrong (therefore it must always be wrong, always, right?!).
In my personal experience, "hearing God" started off as general impulses/convictions as a teen that pushed me into Godly things or pulled me out of ungodly things, but the more you walk with God in all areas of life, the clearer, stronger, and more detailed it becomes. The "impulses" are a person - the Holy Spirit.
Who made people who only hear vague impulses from God the God-doesn't-speak-in-specifics-police? Just because they can only hear vague yes/no/maybe discernments from the Holy Spirit, they feel they have to shut down anyone who has learned to hear Him more specifically! "Well, you're allowed to feel lead or convicted, but you can't hear any detail...because...God doesn't do detail." So, God can say "yes", but he can't say "yes, because [some reason]"? Or He can give you discernment that a business deal is wrong, but refuses or is unable to give you a hint of detail as to why? Or He can say "your child is having a hard time", but wouldn't dare give you insight into what he wants to address/heal in your kid's heart that drives bad behavior?
If anyone tries to blanket-shut-down gifts of the Spirit, THEY DO NOT HAVE YOUR BEST INTEREST IN MIND. They are omitting/ignoring enormous amounts of the New Testament to hold this stance. Question their theology to no end and more than anything, just get in the Bible and read, read, read. Notice the huge quantities of people that God moved through in some supernatural way or another. Read church history and revival history.
And most of all, don't let a few over-hyped-experiencial-crazies here and there define truth for you. If you saw a bad guitar player (or 1,000 even!), that doesn't mean guitar sounds bad or guitarists are bad, it just means you saw bad guitarists. If the Bible says "Pursue love, but eagerly desire spiritual gifts - especially that you may prophesy"...and keeps saying stuff that aligns with that all throughout the New Testament AND Old Testament, then don't let anybody doing it wrong make you throw out what's clearly right.
As far as holy laughter and uncontrolled crying,I have seen this in many churches growing up.....it isn’t a new thing.
Rob Mullin I used to be skeptical of the holy laughter and I know that some people fake it but it wasn’t fake for me. I received it when I was coming out of a cult actually called Fellowship of the Martyrs with Doug Perry. It was horrible and I had gone through a lot of spiritual abuse and emotional abuse. The Father shone His light on my heart and drew me to Jesus as he showed me that He truely cared about me and wanted me to surrender. I let go of years of pain and bondage and I felt the joy of the Lord well up in me after it left. Joy is a fruit of the spirit. For every counterfeit there is the real deal. I asked the Lord to only give me what was of Him. The kundalini is a counterfeit of the real deal. I have seen that too as coming out of the New Age. You can tell by the Holy Spirit when it’s not of God. Not from your own understanding.
Rob Mullin One time I was at church, there was a specific song during worship that I feel was Got speaking to me of something that I was going through at the time. I cried uncontrollably for the length of the song, but it was happy tears. It was God’s way of bringing me to my knees and acknowledging Him in the midst of my circumstances.
It's the kundalini spirit, in other words, an evil spirit, not from the One and Only HOLY Spirit.
ruclips.net/video/2r5fMUct_co/видео.html
Sigal Smadar Not necessarily! God’s Spirit can move our emotions when He ministers to us. I wouldn’t make an expected practice or doctrine out of it, but in God’s presence is fullness of joy, the Bible says. When you are full of the Joy of the Holy Spirit, it would not be a weird thing to react with laughter. This has happened to me, and had nothing to do with a Kundalini spirit. Anything God does, the enemy can and does counterfeit.
@@laurasanders5015 I find it hilarious and sad that we even have to SAY to people that "God can move your emotions" SMH. We have had a rebirth into a connection with our creator (WHO IS LOVE HIMSELF!). If this doesn't impact our emotions there is something missing! :)
As someone who attended BSSM....they regard scripture and the Word of God above everything. Also to say it’s a cult, is being misinformed. They encourage you to never take their word for it, but to search scripture and to have a personal intimate relationship with God. No opinion of the pastors are ever forced on you. They preach the Word of God in its entirety. Attending BSSM was the best decision I ever made and I grew so much that year. The pastors are deeply in love with Jesus. God bless you guys.❤️ I can see you are passionate about discovering truth. This is mine.
Sorry to say but I don’t believe you. One cannot watch a video of Bill Johnson talking and come away with an impression that Scripture is highly revered and their love for Jesus.
Bill Johnson twists God’s word to make it mean what *he* wants it to mean. They also have new age beliefs mixed in and this is just to name a few problematic things.
I am far from the only one who sees this and it’s all interwoven in his publicly available videos.
@@Marlaina totally agree!!! This person may be deceived or hasn’t seen enough of what they believe without really seeing what scripture says?
ruclips.net/video/CErtASEeCdI/видео.html
There is no “my” truth, only the truth.
Please start praying for discernment and study the Word then you'll see how what bethel preaches is found no where in the Word even if they use the same language they aren't worshipping the same Jesus
Sure wish she could just tell her story & the interviewer stops talking!
Guys, it's an interview, and a conversation...not a monologue. If that were the case it would be only her on the stage and only one microphone.
YES!!
Amen 👏🏾
I’m not associated with Bethel in any way, and I know little of their teachings. After watching this video I still don’t know much about what they’re teaching. If you’re going to claim they teach a false gospel you probably say something like, “The Gospel according to the Bible is...but Bethel teaches the Gospel is...” You should give the viewers the best opportunity to judge between your beliefs and what you understand Bethel’s beliefs to be. What I got from your video is you believe Bethel has similar orthopraxy to cults and the occult, but you didn’t demonstrate how those similarities are unbiblical. Let me explain. Clearly Baal and Asherah worship in the Bible are condemned as these are false gods. But before Moses and the Israelites built the first sanctuary and much before Solomon constructed the Temple Baal and Asherah were worshipped in tripartite temples with a court, a holy place, and a holy of holies, just like God commanded for His Sanctuary. Both had altars on which whole burnt offerings were sacrificed and onto which the blood of the sacrifices was splashed. Sin and fellowship offerings of a very similar nature were offered to both. The point is similarities alone prove nothing. The problem with ancient Israel was they often worship false gods-Chemosh, Molech, Baal, Asherah, the golden calves. It wasn’t that Israel worshipped Yahweh not fully understanding who He is. Who among us today would claim a full understanding of God? The problem for Israel was they didn’t worship God exclusively. Is Bethel preaching another God than Yahweh who is eternally the Father, his Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit? Are they preaching another Gospel other than salvation by God’s grace through faith in Jesus Christ-his death as payment for our sins, his burial as a testimony and evidence of his death, and his bodily resurrection to life which gives us the hope of new life in Jesus Christ? If so, you should probably explain that clearly at the front. If not, you should probably remove the video since you are then essentially bearing false witness. Hopefully I can find part 2 and hopefully you give a fuller explanation of your beliefs and your understanding of Bethel’s beliefs. So far I just see a guest who seems extremely susceptible to outside influence, and who is drawn to extremes.
this is kind of an advanced video on the topic. I watched this one first.
ruclips.net/video/sEBaqQfsNIc/видео.html
Most of what is being said here about Bethel is Gossip and hearsay.You are absolutely right. They should give an EXAMPLE of something that Bethel said (not just what someone else says but what Bethel itself says) and then should where in scripture its contradictory. The Bible also says if you have an issue with a brother or sister then go to THEM 1st and talk it through, and if they won't hear then take other witnesses and talk it over and if they still won't hear THEN and ONLY then do you bring it before the congregation. I don't think there was ANY of that here. She just left and THIS "Apologia Studios" is using her to attack Bethel. "Apologia" means to give a defense for something.. I don't hear that happening here, just Dissention in the body. Just what Satan loves to do.
Extremely well said. The mind of the Father.
This video seems to require a lot of knowledge about Bethel. I only recently heard about them and clicked on this video because I thought I would learn more. I will have to check elsewhere for a bigger picture.
@@joyfuljaj Please listen to Bethel for themselves as well and don't just rely on what you hear or read 2nd or 3rd hand. Many people here are NOT Godly and Satan is the EXPERT on dividing the people of God.
I used to love Bethel Music then I heard they participate in the practice of grave soaking-or calling the spirits of dead preachers for inspiration-this is bad and it's witchcraft
Absolutely! These kids are being led to hell
And now they've started referring to God as mother
@@timothylanzo2730 🤤🤤😦
@@timothylanzo2730 Really "mother"? Oh man :) lol...
Like the witch of Endor!
Dude I was raised southern Baptist, just super vanilla. So its crazy to think one person can run into so many wacky groups. Thank God He kept her safe and got her out of there.
Why does it look like they filmed this in Hot Topic?
What do you mean film this in hot topic?
Because she wears a leather jacket?
yo 😂😂
I would have loved to hear more from the interviewee. Interesting video nonetheless.
Yeah, we are supposed to hear God's voice: John 10:27-28.. so refine yourself and come to understand hsi voice, vs yours, vs the accusers:
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Call For America she’s saying that she was mistaking her own thoughts for God’s voice, not that she didn’t hear God at all. She talked about what she heard from God and the Holy Spirit
That’s not Bethel’s fault that she isn’t using discernment and wisdom
Those verses are clearly talking about the salvation of Christ's sheep, not about a one-on-one communication with God.
@@jacobgarcia4826 well how about prophecy? Words of knowledge, words or wisdom. What do you hunger and thirst for? A new church roof? No. We want two way communication. With God but that takes discipline of the flesh.
Lindsay has since recanted her views of Bethel and Bill Johnson and is now I'm support of them.
I saw that :(
11 years chronic pain healed when Bill J visited my town. Nobody’s perfect - including yourselves - so girl, forgive and get over it. (BTW, fellas - trashing the bride of Christ.... I’m certain Such actions make the father of the bride really pissed.)
David Makaroff ... I’m happy to hear the Lord healed you🤗. I have a good friend whose been walking w the Lord many years and suffered from terrible, debilitating gout for many years. Tried everything medically, nothing helped. He was healed last year during a Bethel service. He’s so thankful. And uses his healing to share Gods love and build His kingdom with great passion. He loves Jesus so much.
Matthew Hoffman, cool !! Something stood out to me in your words.
I know Bill J alone didn’t heal me, and yet I love the incredible paradox that is evident in scripture - and shouldn’t be feared.
While we know it is God’s power at work in us (ie “the same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead dwells in you”)... the truth in tension is Jesus command to his followers, “Go.... heal the sick”. He actually tells US to do it - because “I am with you always”.
Is it okay to say “Bill Johnson healed me because God is with him?” That doesn’t theologically bother me one bit.
Acts 10:38 says that even Jesus performed His miracles because God was with Him.
40:17 - freaking out about being able to hear God's voice and yet Jesus said "my sheep hear my voice". IF you can't hear God's voice, you are not his sheep!
i agree build something. i was just thinking the same thing when she was talking about hearing Gods voice and making it sound like that its not possible, the same scripture came to me "my sheep hear my voice and they follow me".
Build Something Bethel was evil and a false anti Christ spirit period!
@buildsomething I am sorry but you are reading that txt out of context.
It’s an analogy so do not take it literal. You hear God’s voice by reading your bible aloud.
COULD NOT BE BETTER SAID .....
Rhonda Renuard
12 hours ago
Beware! The people in this video are wrong! They have no idea how the Holy Spirit moves during a powerful service. In the Book of Acts, people were speaking in tongues loudly when God moved, enough that it drew a crowd. In another instance, the place was visibly shaken to its foundations. In the Old Testament, God moved so strongly that the priests could no longer stand up on their feet, but were prostrated on the floor in God's presence. If the people in this video were present when those situations occurred, they would probably also say that it wasn't of God bc it looked strange to the eyes. When the Holy Spirit moves in a "Book of Acts" type of way, there will be shouting, dancing, leaping for joy, speaking in tongues, prophesies and interpretations, healings, anointing the sick with oil, demons being cast out, laughter and "fullness of joy," people lifting holy hands, the wave offering (an Old Testament practice that involved lifting one's hands up in worship during sacrifice and swaying them back and forth, such as when the people waved palm brances during Christ's triumphal entry), the heave offering (an Old Testamant practice that involved lifting the hands up and down in worship), shuckling (rocking back and forth intensely, which the Jewish people have done for centuries during worship and continue to do to this day), and even sometimes quaking under God's presence, such as what the Roman soldiers experienced when the power of Jesus busted open the tomb. It's sad that many Christians today in America have never experienced Pentecost, and when they do finally see it during times of intense Revival, they are so shocked by the way it looks and sounds that they say it isn't of God. I understand that this video was conducted out of sincerity based on ignorance of the topic, but beware not to trash the moving of God's Spirit! To your credit, I will say that, as with any revival, there will always be people in the congregation that may not be of God but will attempt to mimic the manifestations of the Holy Spirit, such as the woman with the evil spirit that followed the Apostle Paul, but that doesn't discredit the entire revival movement. Study the word of God in its entirety and embrace the full gospel, including Pentecost, and you'll find out that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit isn't some weird Kundalini spirit, which you've ignorantly called it, but is the power of God at work, which the eyes and ears of the flesh will never comprehend because it must be spiritually discerned.
Very true, it grieves God that these ppl are attacking Bethel, Heidi Baker, and other mighty revivals, and mighty men and women of God being used today, and calling them cultic, heretical, and even going so far as not being saved. Sounds like these ppl arent truly saved, or at least have judgmental, vengeful, religious spirits attached to them.
this is so disturbing, but eye opening. thank you for your bravery and standing for the truth.
Desert Garden Prepper, Blaming the church for mistakes made by random people?
That’s no less dishonest than blaming Gospel for the crusades