So, if I am a collector and I purchased a gun for $1,000 when I was 21. And at age 55, it became a rare expensive relic and someone purchases it from me for $45,000, I am now a dealer??? Oh, I get it, they didn't get any sales tax on it because it was a private sale.
YOU ARE A DEALER!!!! ACCORDING TO THE ATF, YOU ARE A DEALER. YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND!@!!! YOU ARE A DEALER!!! We can put forth all of the what if's and and posit lots of scenarios about what the ATF could or would consider a sale as a dealer but you are forgetting the fact::::: THE ATF HAS DECLARED YOU AND ALL OTHER GUN OWNERS TO BE DEALERS. WHY???? BECAUSE EVERY GUN OWNER BUYS AND SELLS GUNS. I HAVE BOUGHT AND SOLD MORE GUNS TO COWORKERS THAN I HAVE BOUGHT OVER THE COUNTER. Those sales occurred of the last 50 years. But according to the ATF, I am a dealer.\A And SO ARE YOU. If not in this instant, you will sell a gun to your brother, your sister, a coworker or a stranger. you are a dealer.
@@sjb3460 And you're a car dealer if you sell your car. And you're a bicycle dealer if you sell a bike. And you're an appliance dealer if you sell a washing machine. And you're a dealer if you sell anything. Better get your local authority business licenses and IRS TIN buddy! 🙄
@@drecali2848 You forget that the ATF with the blessings and backing the Pres and the Democrat party has declared war on legal gun owners. We are the enemy of the state. Yea, its really stupid and depressing what the ATF is doing. What are we going to do about it??? I'll tell you. Nothing. Nothing.
You know the adage " You can beat the charge but you can't beat the ride" is what they would tell you.... if you were lucky and they didn't raid your house and shoot you at 6:02 am.
They already have a quasi registry. They have all the 4473 from former FFLs and all the NICS data for years. They have admitted to having a database with a billion records in it.
Dettelbach needs to be removed from Director of ATF, the entire agency should be disbanded immediately. What happened to Brian Malinowski was horrific and should have never happened. The House Committee put so many valid points forward and it demonstrated how corrupt and criminal the ATF is in conduct. 1.62 Billion Dollar budget unable to provide body-cams to agents which would be 3%ish of its budget. Insane.
More like .00003% of that 1.6 billion dollar budget. As far as the ATM goes the day of changed rules and definitions whenever it suits them to persecute law abiding citizens. They do not have the authority for the power to change anything that is already been set down let alone create their own laws and rules the ATF is a criminal organization just like most of the rest of the government and definitely like all the rest of the alphabet groups. All of them can go pound sand
The ATF fits the description of a Domestic Terrorist group. Where is the authority that allows the ATF to make laws like the Legislative branch? It would seem like the attack on Malinowski was a planned homicide. They knew that he would try to protect his family and home (like anybody) and used that behavior to execute him.
To be honest, most of our government fits that description. 90% of what our the fed gov does is unconstitutional yet we the people let it happen. If we werent such sheep, we would have corrected this problem decades ago, but the more comfortable we get the tighter the yoke gets. A few more years and we wont even have the facade of rights, which is where we are at now.
A week before the hit team assembled at the local Walmart, then dissipated. He wasn’t home. It was a search warrant. He didn’t need to be home. It was a calibrated attack for the purpose of murder.
Where does the fed gov get its authority to have anything to do with firearms? Congress passes unconstitutional laws that have serious penalties, especially for formerly law abiding citizens. Those who become criminals through greater and greater infringements on their rights. Suddenly and punitively. I bet law enforcement would not want to be disarmed when confrontations with criminals are inevitable. Firearms are private property. Now the fed gov wants to steal from us by making our property worthless? Tyranny sucks, and that’s exactly what they are doing to the people of the United States.
Problem is, the vast majority of voters are morons and keep this BS alive and will never see the light. Our only choices are jury box and cartridge box, soap box and ballot box no longer work.
100% agree as well, I'm from North Idaho you can sell your gun to a private person whatever whoever you want whenever you want no paperwork no nothing as long as they're not a felon and won't come back to you later this whole thing is just absolutely stupid
@@tvc1848 or dead. That is why Chevon is such a big decision. Congress should be forced to write single issue bills and debate then vote. If it's a bad bill then rewrite it. I'm tired of all the bs from these corrupt agencies.
EVERY GUN OWNER SHOULD APPLY FOR AN FFL DEALER LICENSE. IF 1 MILLION GUN OWNERS APPLIED FOR AN FFL (REMEMBER THIS WAS THEIR IDEA) THE SYSTEM WOULD CRASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You dont understand that 1 million gun owners applying for an FFL would destroy the whole system. Yes, you are correct but, we need to do this as an act of defience and peaceful civil disobediance.
SO WHAT???????????????????????????????????? WHAT DID THAT ACCOMPLISH????? HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE CHARGED AND HAD TO SPEND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO DEFEND THEMSELVES AGAINST THE RIDICULOUS PISTOL BRACE RULE. The ATF will examine each and every rule, directive decision, and interpretation and twist them to give them more authority than they have now.
@@jasoncarey157we have been for over a century by not fighting back physically like the second amendment intends for us to be which is all that will actually stop them as shown by the past over a century now that we've been trying peaceful means and get nowhere but more and more "laws" enforced on us as if theyre real anyway
BATFE wants to pass judgement on all firearms owners, based solely on their own capricious interpretation. They don't want us to know their criteria, since that would interfere with their lawfare against the 2A. Outrageous behavior. But then, what do we expect from self-glorified tax collectors?
The DEA, ATF and FBI should have been seriously scrutinized after Ruby Ridge, Waco, Texas and "Fast and Furious". Kind of difficult to believe in a government you can't trust!
“To say that an unconstitutional law must be obeyed until it is repealed, is saying that an unconstitutional law is just as obligatory as a constitutional one, for the latter is binding only until it is repealed. There would therefore be no difference at all between a constitutional and an unconstitutional law, in respect to their binding force; and that would be equivalent to abolishing the constitution, and giving to the government unlimited power.” -- Lysander Spooner
If you sell your antique car, or video game, or typewriter, or radio, no problem. Sell your antique firearm and you must have a license. This is my PROPERTY whom NO ONE has the right to regulate unless they are duly elected legislators, not some overpaid arrogant lawyer who was appointed to an OVERZEALOUS bureucracy.
Today I learned FOPA = "Farmer Owner's Protection Act." Also at 11:37: "The judge ordered that the rule is enjoyed ..." Ah, yes, everyone enjoys this rule. Maybe it's time to hire a video editor who knows anything about firearms. It's not an AI. The people responsible for sacking the people who were sacked have been sacked.
Most of the time firearms gain value? I have guns that I bought 40 years ago for $300 dollars that are now worth $1400?? So if someone inherited or bought a gun years ago and decided to sell it b cause they needed the money or no longer wanted the gun , they would be a criminal?!?!? What about cars or homes?!?
Problem is everyone knuckles down and obeys. Fuck the BATF. If you want to sell your firearm, sell it. Just keep one for when they come Knocking. You believe in the second amendment, then exercise your right. Don't be buffaloed.
Looking at the forest and not reading the bark of a tree, it would in the best interest of the BATF to back down starting today. They have been extremely fortunate thus far and have some deaths I mean some wins, but objectively it’s strongly felt the tide will change against this agency. Humbly speaking, it’s truly best for everyone if they just call it a day and focus on bad guys and not making law abiding citizens evil 2A felons.
They are cowards:: How many gangs have they raided??? How many drug gangs armed with the latest machine guns have they stopped????? All of us are peaceful citizens. We never want to use a gun in a deadly fashion unless we are attacked by thugs. They know we will not shoot at any LEO. That's why they target us.
In theory no... but the AFT will need to take all details into account and compare every detail to each word in their 400+ page "rule" released to "clarify" the dealer definition... The director must defer to those in his department to determine what your intentions were... ... ... whether you intend to be a terrorist, dealer, hobbyist, or a chocolate bar.
If the ATF can twist the vague wording of their laws/rules to take down an easy target, they won’t hesitate. If you have a dog, your chances increase even more.
So, a person who sells off a personal collection of firearms isn't to be considered a dealer and doesn't require an FFL. Does that not conflict with the current ATF stance that if a licensed dealer wants to sell a personal firearm that he/she must run it through his/her bound book?
The ATF has enacted a vague list of rules ideal for capricous enforcement that could destroy the lives of citizens who have broken no actual laws. Considering their past behavior I have no reason to believe that they won't.
That's exactly what the judge said in the opinion... capricious which means unpridictable and impulsive. So they write the rule to be vague so they can say anything they want and no one knows where to turn.
At least the mob actually DID provide protection. Just look at most large cities with a "Little Italy". Baltimore, for example, Little Italy is incredibly safe, and nice, but just a block or two away (to the Northeast and east) is a complete dump. Wonder why that is???? asking for a friend...
I wonder how many ATF agents and other federal agents would run afoul of these crazy ATF rules every year. I am guessing a lot, but they don't have to worry, they are special.
Well the fact that the ATF is making selling a gun a possible felony and just depending if his/her morning Starbucks swill was to their liking . Anybody at anytime could go from never even had a traffic ticket to getting shot in the head at 6am with no camera footage so they won't have to hide anything no trial no innocent until proven guilty you sold a gun case closed . I think the next step would be if you have a light on a gun/firearm that is now considered a machine gun but that will be reinterpreting a rule not making a new law So 6am no knock etc. etc.
I loved that line... "If you are going to make money" I don't know about everyone else but every collector I've known buys certain guns especially historical guns as a way to enhance or increase the monetary value of the collection. Well there's no point to adding to your collection if you can't preserve and sell the item for more than you originally bought it for.. How about we make it houses.. I buy a house fix it up, and improve on the design. Well I bought the house for $100,000. I hold onto it for say 5 years the market value of the house is $500,000 because the market has gone up, the neighborhood has increased, and there's very few houses available in the area... But I would be in business to sell the house because I would "make a profit". Just stupidity!
This is essentially taking my property away from me without due process. Neither I or those individuals that I give(inherit)my guns to will ever be able to realize their true value. There is more than just the second amendment here.
States like Illinois now require you to state the purpose for purchase. I'd bet that was coordinated with ATF as it came out suspiciously close to this rule.
Gonna say it again. How far we have fallen from shall not be infringed. All of us 2A advocates seemingly have no idea what we are up against: the implacable resolve, the relentless cleverness; the hydra of strategies, of tactics, and of ruse; the uncountable numbers of the influential behind the scene all driven by existential threat, as they see it, that citizens are lawfully armed. Part of their game is to lead us by the nose from court, to court, to court on one matter after another, and another, and another. And why their pursuit? Read up on Jefferson. Read up on the Magna Carta. Aside from all of its many provisions, what the dukes and barons (only 40 of them, if I recall correctly) at Runnymede, June 15, 1215, fundamentally wanted and secured was King John's seal acknowledging the right (Jefferson is said to have called it our duty) to overthrow a tyrannical crown. That we now are going to court to petition against such inanities as restrictions on magazine capacity and how many pistol sales constitute a felony. Good heavens, guys! Good heavens but we are a sorry one trick pony, and long in the tooth at that.
So does the ruling from the 5th Circuit prevent ATF from arresting someone in Texas for selling a firearm or is it like an affirmative defense to prosecution that can be brought up at your trial ? It would be great if ATF issued their own statement concerning this issue , but they won't I know .
does the ATF understand capitalism? this country was built on it! most things deprecate after purchase, firearms, jewelry, and real-estate normally appreciate
No Citizen should ever be prosecuted for any rule or so-called law from the ATF as it has no legal authority to create rules or laws, the ATF is a ROGUE AGENCY running wild committing crimes from harassment to murder. - Per the United States Constitution : Article 1, Section 1 - (All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.) The Congress can not delegate any authority to the ATF to create rules or laws, as ALL legislative Powers are granted and vested to Congress of The United States alone.
I feel like the nation should know this by now you give them an inch, They take a hundred miles You've seen what they do with the FR t's and what they did with these ridiculous bumpstocks
If my girlfriend throws my hand gun in the garbage is that okay with the ATF, as it was not for profit. Am I still responsible if I am the President's SON
Analogy.. "you find a side of beef that is way too big to eat at one sitting so you eat it one meal at a time. Evetually over time you devour the whole side of beef." We are the beef the the agency is the devouring entity.
Federal agencies should be absolutely prohibited from including vague language in their rulemaking - words like, "may, should, possible" leave them broad lattitude to abuse their authority. The ATF should be in the business of ensuring consumer safety, i.e. gun manufacturers cannot make weapons that are unsafe for their user.
In 1971 my first gun was a Winchester 1200 field cost me $145 that I still own. If I sold it today it's worth $450. I guess that would be a profit. I love how the government has agencies with dedicated authority to infringe on constitutional rights that SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. I bought a book on NJ gun law and its 497 pages on a right that's 1 sentence long. WTF
Why wouldn't this ruling apply to all the states? If a federal law/rule/policy of any federal agency is "valid" in some states, and not "valid" in others, that seems to me to be unequal application of said law/rule/policy. Wouldn't that be violation of the 14th Amendment?
Some of this sounds like the government being pissed that they are not making tax money on personal gun sales, trades, or gifting a firearm to a friend or family member. HATORADE!!!
ATF DESTROYED in COURT But Will We Go to Prison Anyways? Does selling a gun make you a Dealer? The 5th Amendment right to private property says no. We do not have to be a dealer to own, buy, or sell property including guns. There is no mention of a dealer in the 5th Amendment. Constitution of the United States Fifth Amendment No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. "NOR BE DEPRIVED OF LIFE, LIBERTY, OR PROPERTY, WITHOUT DUE PROCESS OF LAW, NOR SHALL PRIVATE PROPERTY BE TAKEN FOR PUBLIC USE, WITHOUT JUST COMPENSATION." “Among the natural rights of the Colonists are these: First, a right to life; Secondly, to liberty; Thirdly, to property; together with the right to support and defend them in the best manner they can. These are evident branches of, rather than deductions from, the duty of self-preservation, commonly called the first law of nature." --- Samuel Adams, Father of the American Revolution; The Rights of the Colonists 1772
The problem comes to light if you sell 1 firearm...all the government has to do is charge you with selling as a dealer and YOU have to prove your not. That costs more money and time in a court that 99% of citizens don’t have. So with the law on the books they still shut down selling guns.
This gets us a step closer to "The rule of low" instead of "rule by law". Whether the ATF would "aggressively prosecute" or not is not the point IMO. It opens the door for them to do that if they wish. Given their propensity to reinterpret rules via executive direction or pressure, the ability for abuse is there. "We wouldn't do that" is a temporary position subject to change. You're only safe when "We can't do that". Judicial and Executive (which controls Administrative) are not to be used as excuses and tools for the Legislative branch not doing their job.
Their goal is to destroy the private sales of firearms - the guy walking the gun show with the rifle on his back and the for-sale sign on it, folks selling guns at a range and of course, all of the different private sale gun websites. They don't need to actually ban this activity, instead, they simply need to make a bunch of high-profile busts - or murders like they did to the guy from Arkansas - to make most people afraid of trying to sell their guns. This way they can say that they aren't banning the private sale of guns - you can still sell your buddy your old hunting rifle - instead, they're going after "illegal arms dealers" like the guy trying to sell his old SKS at a gun show because he needs to replace the water heater.
It will be aggressive at gun shows or when one sells on Gunbroker or any other website. Will they hit the individual, sure if they trace a firearm back to them.
So, after the repeal of prohibition regulation of alcohol is supposed to be left to the states. Firearms and explosives are both arms. So maybe they can regulate tobacco, though any drug regulation is sketchy under the precedent that prohibition required an amendment.
So, if I am a collector and I purchased a gun for $1,000 when I was 21. And at age 55, it became a rare expensive relic and someone purchases it from me for $45,000, I am now a dealer??? Oh, I get it, they didn't get any sales tax on it because it was a private sale.
Tough sh**.
YOU ARE A DEALER!!!! ACCORDING TO THE ATF, YOU ARE A DEALER.
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND!@!!! YOU ARE A DEALER!!!
We can put forth all of the what if's and and posit lots of scenarios about what the ATF could or would consider a sale as a dealer but you are forgetting the fact::::: THE ATF HAS DECLARED YOU AND ALL OTHER GUN OWNERS TO BE DEALERS. WHY???? BECAUSE EVERY GUN OWNER BUYS AND SELLS GUNS. I HAVE BOUGHT AND SOLD MORE GUNS TO COWORKERS THAN I HAVE BOUGHT OVER THE COUNTER. Those sales occurred of the last 50 years. But according to the ATF, I am a dealer.\A
And SO ARE YOU. If not in this instant, you will sell a gun to your brother, your sister, a coworker or a stranger. you are a dealer.
@sjb3460 with that being said, isn't that effing ridiculous lol
@@sjb3460 And you're a car dealer if you sell your car. And you're a bicycle dealer if you sell a bike. And you're an appliance dealer if you sell a washing machine. And you're a dealer if you sell anything.
Better get your local authority business licenses and IRS TIN buddy! 🙄
@@drecali2848 You forget that the ATF with the blessings and backing the Pres and the Democrat party has declared war on legal gun owners. We are the enemy of the state. Yea, its really stupid and depressing what the ATF is doing. What are we going to do about it??? I'll tell you. Nothing. Nothing.
You know the adage " You can beat the charge but you can't beat the ride" is what they would tell you.... if you were lucky and they didn't raid your house and shoot you at 6:02 am.
The "process" is now the punishment. Everything else after is just Icing on the Cake.
@@CD-vb9fi Yep, if you survive the initial arrest, they will destroy your life while you're defending yourself.
@@erikthered9357they are seriously going to make people become “Terror wrists” with all their bs
How could they possibly know unless they have a registry?
They don’t need a registry they just need your bank/credit card account
What if you used cash…
@@gifthorse3675 And two folks have zipped lips.
They may just monitor online marketplace sites/forums
They already have a quasi registry. They have all the 4473 from former FFLs and all the NICS data for years. They have admitted to having a database with a billion records in it.
Dettelbach needs to be removed from Director of ATF, the entire agency should be disbanded immediately. What happened to Brian Malinowski was horrific and should have never happened. The House Committee put so many valid points forward and it demonstrated how corrupt and criminal the ATF is in conduct. 1.62 Billion Dollar budget unable to provide body-cams to agents which would be 3%ish of its budget. Insane.
Dettelbach is just a willing puppet
I really like the way he complained about not having money for body cams after his goon squad taped up the camera that was already there.
And turned off the power and scrambled cell phone reception.
More like .00003% of that 1.6 billion dollar budget. As far as the ATM goes the day of changed rules and definitions whenever it suits them to persecute law abiding citizens. They do not have the authority for the power to change anything that is already been set down let alone create their own laws and rules the ATF is a criminal organization just like most of the rest of the government and definitely like all the rest of the alphabet groups. All of them can go pound sand
Mr. Gagglefuck needs to go into GULAG prison, to repay Brian Malinowski's funding and his families.
The ATF fits the description of a Domestic Terrorist group. Where is the authority that allows the ATF to make laws like the Legislative branch? It would seem like the attack on Malinowski was a planned homicide. They knew that he would try to protect his family and home (like anybody) and used that behavior to execute him.
To be honest, most of our government fits that description. 90% of what our the fed gov does is unconstitutional yet we the people let it happen. If we werent such sheep, we would have corrected this problem decades ago, but the more comfortable we get the tighter the yoke gets. A few more years and we wont even have the facade of rights, which is where we are at now.
A week before the hit team assembled at the local Walmart, then dissipated. He wasn’t home. It was a search warrant. He didn’t need to be home. It was a calibrated attack for the purpose of murder.
Where does the fed gov get its authority to have anything to do with firearms? Congress passes unconstitutional laws that have serious penalties, especially for formerly law abiding citizens. Those who become criminals through greater and greater infringements on their rights. Suddenly and punitively.
I bet law enforcement would not want to be disarmed when confrontations with criminals are inevitable.
Firearms are private property. Now the fed gov wants to steal from us by making our property worthless?
Tyranny sucks, and that’s exactly what they are doing to the people of the United States.
If you sell your gun don't call the ATF and they won't know. Practice your 5th amendment right and keep your mouth shut
no photos, no videos, do not write it down, deny, deny, deny......best advice ever
I am old and tired of the BS. This needs settled and permanently. No more of this insanity. Vote for people that will outlaw politicians! 😂😂😂
EXACTLY.....
Problem is, the vast majority of voters are morons and keep this BS alive and will never see the light. Our only choices are jury box and cartridge box, soap box and ballot box no longer work.
100% agree as well, I'm from North Idaho you can sell your gun to a private person whatever whoever you want whenever you want no paperwork no nothing as long as they're not a felon and won't come back to you later this whole thing is just absolutely stupid
Can't be done. They're All Corrupt.
@@Warrior-X That was kind of my point. 😉
I don't ever sell firearms, I just buy them, so (hopefully) I should be good. 🤣
All bullshit aside, I agree with you 100%. Never sell.
For now. It won't be long before buying an arbitrary number will make you a "dealer acquiring stock for future sale" or some reality warping nonsense.
Sold mine 7 years ago. Way before this shit started 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@ericstevens8744 So, you assumed the position years ago, then? Unfortunately, it seems that many people fall into that category.
We are being hypersensitive because our recent history has shown us that “give them an inch, they’ll take a mile”
And now some lives😮😢
Congress is lazy when it comes to writing law. We have the 2A that is all we need.
Yeah all we need is for it to be well regulated.
It’s all you need until you end up in prison.
@@tvc1848 or dead. That is why Chevon is such a big decision. Congress should be forced to write single issue bills and debate then vote. If it's a bad bill then rewrite it. I'm tired of all the bs from these corrupt agencies.
Shall NOT be infringed.
@@bamahama707 those are the key words
An admin that allows unknown terrorists to breeze right in, yet targets the law abiding owners of inanimate firearms screams ‘2A oversight required’.
Apparently they can and do make rules that exceed the laws passed by Congress. They have and continue to do it.
EVERY GUN OWNER SHOULD APPLY FOR AN FFL DEALER LICENSE. IF 1 MILLION GUN OWNERS APPLIED FOR AN FFL (REMEMBER THIS WAS THEIR IDEA) THE SYSTEM WOULD CRASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But it is your right to sell if you wish?????
@@sjb3460there is paperwork and hoops to jump through , not counting the fees and taxes .
@@sjb3460
That would give them exactly the registry that they wanted all along.
You dont understand that 1 million gun owners applying for an FFL would destroy the whole system. Yes, you are correct but, we need to do this as an act of defience and peaceful civil disobediance.
ATF did get smacked down today though. The pistol brace rule was vacated today.
SO WHAT???????????????????????????????????? WHAT DID THAT ACCOMPLISH????? HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE CHARGED AND HAD TO SPEND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO DEFEND THEMSELVES AGAINST THE RIDICULOUS PISTOL BRACE RULE.
The ATF will examine each and every rule, directive decision, and interpretation and twist them to give them more authority than they have now.
They’re still enforcing the rules
@@gifthorse3675 Show me.
Imagine being sent to prison when the words say shall not be infringed. Nazi Germany.
-Combat Vet
Imagine thinking begging these people for your rights
That happened to the guy in NY that was building his own guns. He is going for 10 years now. Nazi New York.
🤦🏻♂️
@@jasoncarey157we have been for over a century by not fighting back physically like the second amendment intends for us to be which is all that will actually stop them as shown by the past over a century now that we've been trying peaceful means and get nowhere but more and more "laws" enforced on us as if theyre real anyway
Thank you for your service I appreciate all the men and women who served this country and serve God bless
BATFE wants to pass judgement on all firearms owners, based solely on their own capricious interpretation. They don't want us to know their criteria, since that would interfere with their lawfare against the 2A. Outrageous behavior. But then, what do we expect from self-glorified tax collectors?
You misspelled "tax executioners".
Tom, your unpacking of these matters is superb - concise and complete.
I love his show 100% agree
@@BUZZKILLJRJRThe ATF DOES NOT. Have anything to do with firearms .,.......
The DEA, ATF and FBI should have been seriously scrutinized after Ruby Ridge, Waco, Texas and "Fast and Furious". Kind of difficult to believe in a government you can't trust!
The ATF must be abolished
wont matter, they will just move it to another agency. We need to strip the government of all the unconstitutional BS it does to fix this.
Hyper aggressive enforcement if ATF is left to their own devices!
“To say that an unconstitutional law must be obeyed until it is repealed, is saying that an unconstitutional law is just as obligatory as a constitutional one, for the latter is binding only until it is repealed. There would therefore be no difference at all between a constitutional and an unconstitutional law, in respect to their binding force; and that would be equivalent to abolishing the constitution, and giving to the government unlimited power.” -- Lysander Spooner
So the moral of this story... Buy many guns, and then you have a collection...
The Malinowski family may wish to comment and be heard on this.....
They have already received notice form the Feds, they better not say much about anything.
If you sell your antique car, or video game, or typewriter, or radio, no problem. Sell your antique firearm and you must have a license. This is my PROPERTY whom NO ONE has the right to regulate unless they are duly elected legislators, not some overpaid arrogant lawyer who was appointed to an OVERZEALOUS bureucracy.
I have issues even with the duly elected.
Firearms made in the calendar year 1898 and prior are considered exempt from ANY gun laws.
Which gun control act was word for word with 1930's Germany?
According to JPFO, it was the 1968 GCA.
You can never be "over sensitive" enough when it comes to the ATF.
If you buy two or more hand guns at the same time, you should expect Barney to come knocking.
"1986 FARMER OWNER'S PROTECTION ACT"?!?!?! --- Who proofreads the overlays in that office?! FARMER?? Is it A.I.-written mistaking FARMER for FIREARM?
It's an A.I. that doesn't like Firearms probably
Today I learned FOPA = "Farmer Owner's Protection Act."
Also at 11:37: "The judge ordered that the rule is enjoyed ..." Ah, yes, everyone enjoys this rule.
Maybe it's time to hire a video editor who knows anything about firearms. It's not an AI.
The people responsible for sacking the people who were sacked have been sacked.
Most of the time firearms gain value? I have guns that I bought 40 years ago for $300 dollars that are now worth $1400?? So if someone inherited or bought a gun years ago and decided to sell it b cause they needed the money or no longer wanted the gun , they would be a criminal?!?!? What about cars or homes?!?
Problem is everyone knuckles down and obeys. Fuck the BATF. If you want to sell your firearm, sell it. Just keep one for when they come Knocking. You believe in the second amendment, then exercise your right. Don't be buffaloed.
The ATF is doing biden's bidding.
A merica's
T yrannical
F orce
A lways
T aking
F irearms
This entire administration has to go!
Looking at the forest and not reading the bark of a tree, it would in the best interest of the BATF to back down starting today. They have been extremely fortunate thus far and have some deaths I mean some wins, but objectively it’s strongly felt the tide will change against this agency. Humbly speaking, it’s truly best for everyone if they just call it a day and focus on bad guys and not making law abiding citizens evil 2A felons.
That would be their best course of action. Otherwise, things could get really ugly, and we really would rather not go there.
They are cowards:: How many gangs have they raided??? How many drug gangs armed with the latest machine guns have they stopped?????
All of us are peaceful citizens. We never want to use a gun in a deadly fashion unless we are attacked by thugs. They know we will not shoot at any LEO. That's why they target us.
'Six ways to Sunday' to get any one they want whenever they want.
ROFL - The Farmer Owner's Protection Act! Sounds like something from the Antebellum South to protect plantation owners.
"Farmer Owner's Protection Act"... really? Why can't we own Farmers? 😃
So if you bought a firearm in 1986, didn't really use it and sold it now. If you bought it for $100 and sell it now for $800 are you a dealer?
In theory no... but the AFT will need to take all details into account and compare every detail to each word in their 400+ page "rule" released to "clarify" the dealer definition... The director must defer to those in his department to determine what your intentions were... ... ... whether you intend to be a terrorist, dealer, hobbyist, or a chocolate bar.
If the ATF can twist the vague wording of their laws/rules to take down an easy target, they won’t hesitate. If you have a dog, your chances increase even more.
@@shooter963 tbh, if the ATF is after you, and you have a dog, you don't have a dog...😒
NO.
They can't change the law. The law has the definition of 'in the business'. Look it up yourself
So, a person who sells off a personal collection of firearms isn't to be considered a dealer and doesn't require an FFL. Does that not conflict with the current ATF stance that if a licensed dealer wants to sell a personal firearm that he/she must run it through his/her bound book?
The ATF has enacted a vague list of rules ideal for capricous enforcement that could destroy the lives of citizens who have broken no actual laws.
Considering their past behavior I have no reason to believe that they won't.
That's exactly what the judge said in the opinion... capricious which means unpridictable and impulsive. So they write the rule to be vague so they can say anything they want and no one knows where to turn.
Room temperature is what they want you to turn.
That’s what governments do
The 'safety' business was, at one time, the express domain of the mob. ... just say'n.
At least the mob actually DID provide protection. Just look at most large cities with a "Little Italy". Baltimore, for example, Little Italy is incredibly safe, and nice, but just a block or two away (to the Northeast and east) is a complete dump. Wonder why that is???? asking for a friend...
I wonder how many ATF agents and other federal agents would run afoul of these crazy ATF rules every year. I am guessing a lot, but they don't have to worry, they are special.
Well the fact that the ATF is making selling a gun a possible felony and just depending if his/her morning Starbucks swill was to their liking . Anybody at anytime could go from never even had a traffic ticket to getting shot in the head at 6am with no camera footage so they won't have to hide anything no trial no innocent until proven guilty you sold a gun case closed . I think the next step would be if you have a light on a gun/firearm that is now considered a machine gun but that will be reinterpreting a rule not making a new law So 6am no knock etc. etc.
Thanks Tom. 👽 Factually our second amendment is vanishing in front of our eyes; and their reason is dark as hell.
so if I give away guns, at a loss to me... then I'm OK?
As long as the only money you recieve is a gift or a tip. 😂😂😂
No they’re trying to completely criminalize private sales
Very confusing. I think it's on purpose
Excellent quote as usual
They will go after everyone.
They should all be tried for MUDER!!!!
They should give back everything they stole!!!
Fair market value is moot here
There's ALWAYS an exception...
I loved that line... "If you are going to make money" I don't know about everyone else but every collector I've known buys certain guns especially historical guns as a way to enhance or increase the monetary value of the collection. Well there's no point to adding to your collection if you can't preserve and sell the item for more than you originally bought it for..
How about we make it houses.. I buy a house fix it up, and improve on the design. Well I bought the house for $100,000. I hold onto it for say 5 years the market value of the house is $500,000 because the market has gone up, the neighborhood has increased, and there's very few houses available in the area... But I would be in business to sell the house because I would "make a profit". Just stupidity!
I gave the gun away and the person made a donation to my cause!
That’s the best breakdown I have seen.
It will only get worse under the current administration unfortunately 😢
This is essentially taking my property away from me without due process. Neither I or those individuals that I give(inherit)my guns to will ever be able to realize their true value. There is more than just the second amendment here.
All of my firearms are part of my personal collection even if I need to use one to protect myself from death or bodily harm.
States like Illinois now require you to state the purpose for purchase. I'd bet that was coordinated with ATF as it came out suspiciously close to this rule.
100% of fish get caught when they open their mouth
Well that's not true. Ever heard of snagging? Sometimes shit happens.
The BATFE needs to be reformed from top to bottom & turned into a nationwide chain of the best stores ever...
Which nobody will ever willingly enter.
If I do not sell it for more I will lose money due to inflation.
Gonna say it again. How far we have fallen from shall not be infringed. All of us 2A advocates seemingly have no idea what we are up against: the implacable resolve, the relentless cleverness; the hydra of strategies, of tactics, and of ruse; the uncountable numbers of the influential behind the scene all driven by existential threat, as they see it, that citizens are lawfully armed. Part of their game is to lead us by the nose from court, to court, to court on one matter after another, and another, and another. And why their pursuit? Read up on Jefferson. Read up on the Magna Carta. Aside from all of its many provisions, what the dukes and barons (only 40 of them, if I recall correctly) at Runnymede, June 15, 1215, fundamentally wanted and secured was King John's seal acknowledging the right (Jefferson is said to have called it our duty) to overthrow a tyrannical crown. That we now are going to court to petition against such inanities as restrictions on magazine capacity and how many pistol sales constitute a felony. Good heavens, guys! Good heavens but we are a sorry one trick pony, and long in the tooth at that.
I thought America was supposed to have equal justice for all. I guess I was wrong.
We can thank John Cornyn and 14 other republicants for this BS.
So ultimately, why was that house in Little rock broken into again?
It's not a matter of if they would go after ordinary occasional selling Joe's. It's a matter of when.
So does the ruling from the 5th Circuit prevent ATF from arresting someone in Texas for selling a firearm or is it like an affirmative defense to prosecution that can be brought up at your trial ? It would be great if ATF issued their own statement concerning this issue , but they won't I know .
does the ATF understand capitalism? this country was built on it! most things deprecate after purchase, firearms, jewelry, and real-estate normally appreciate
Tom Grieve, why did you use the phrase “passed a new?” ATF added a new rule.
Love that quote!
Pretty sure if you’re selling guns without a dealers license, you can also face a death penalty
No Citizen should ever be prosecuted for any rule or so-called law from the ATF as it has no legal authority to create rules or laws, the ATF is a ROGUE AGENCY running wild committing crimes from harassment to murder.
- Per the United States Constitution : Article 1, Section 1 -
(All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.)
The Congress can not delegate any authority to the ATF to create rules or laws, as ALL legislative Powers are granted and vested to Congress of The United States alone.
I feel like the nation should know this by now you give them an inch, They take a hundred miles You've seen what they do with the FR t's and what they did with these ridiculous bumpstocks
If my girlfriend throws my hand gun in the garbage is that okay with the ATF, as it was not for profit. Am I still responsible if I am the President's SON
Analogy.. "you find a side of beef that is way too big to eat at one sitting so you eat it one meal at a time. Evetually over time you devour the whole side of beef." We are the beef the the agency is the devouring entity.
Federal agencies should be absolutely prohibited from including vague language in their rulemaking - words like, "may, should, possible" leave them broad lattitude to abuse their authority.
The ATF should be in the business of ensuring consumer safety, i.e. gun manufacturers cannot make weapons that are unsafe for their user.
No freedom without a free market.:-)
In 1971 my first gun was a Winchester 1200 field cost me $145 that I still own. If I sold it today it's worth $450. I guess that would be a profit. I love how the government has agencies with dedicated authority to infringe on constitutional rights that SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. I bought a book on NJ gun law and its 497 pages on a right that's 1 sentence long. WTF
Why wouldn't this ruling apply to all the states? If a federal law/rule/policy of any federal agency is "valid" in some states, and not "valid" in others, that seems to me to be unequal application of said law/rule/policy. Wouldn't that be violation of the 14th Amendment?
ThankYou Tom 4 Sharing !!! ❤ 🕊 ⚜♦️🕯 MuchLove
Well I'm a member of GOA and a Utahn. Really EVERYONE should be a GOA member!
I am on of the named plaintiff from the TFA (Tennessee Firearms Association). We cannot win these battles if we do not engage.
Some of this sounds like the government being pissed that they are not making tax money on personal gun sales, trades, or gifting a firearm to a friend or family member. HATORADE!!!
ATF gotcha rule.
With INFLATION we’re all Guilty of making a Profit, evidently.
These agencies have FAR TOO MUCH POWER! Not one of us gun owners EVER voted for any of these red coats!
ATF DESTROYED in COURT But Will We Go to Prison Anyways? Does selling a gun make you a Dealer?
The 5th Amendment right to private property says no. We do not have to be a dealer to own, buy, or sell property including guns. There is no mention of a dealer in the 5th Amendment.
Constitution of the United States
Fifth Amendment
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
"NOR BE DEPRIVED OF LIFE, LIBERTY, OR PROPERTY, WITHOUT DUE PROCESS OF LAW, NOR SHALL PRIVATE PROPERTY BE TAKEN FOR PUBLIC USE, WITHOUT JUST COMPENSATION."
“Among the natural rights of the Colonists are these: First, a right to life; Secondly, to liberty; Thirdly, to property; together with the right to support and defend them in the best manner they can. These are evident branches of, rather than deductions from, the duty of self-preservation, commonly called the first law of nature." --- Samuel Adams, Father of the American Revolution; The Rights of the Colonists 1772
HAS THE GOVERNMENT'S FEARS OF CITIZENS, PREVENTED THE MANDATINGS YEARS OF HIGHSCHOOL LEGAL (SURVIVAL AS CITIZENS) INFORMED BY CONSENT OF THE GOVERNED?
Rules are not laws. People need to push back on these rules and regulations. They are not laws. Only legislators have the right to make laws.
The problem comes to light if you sell 1 firearm...all the government has to do is charge you with selling as a dealer and YOU have to prove your not. That costs more money and time in a court that 99% of citizens don’t have. So with the law on the books they still shut down selling guns.
Clearly the goal is eliminate private party firearm transfers.
This gets us a step closer to "The rule of low" instead of "rule by law".
Whether the ATF would "aggressively prosecute" or not is not the point IMO. It opens the door for them to do that if they wish. Given their propensity to reinterpret rules via executive direction or pressure, the ability for abuse is there. "We wouldn't do that" is a temporary position subject to change. You're only safe when "We can't do that".
Judicial and Executive (which controls Administrative) are not to be used as excuses and tools for the Legislative branch not doing their job.
The entirety of ATF bureaucracy needs a serious reform ASAP
Another win boys and girls ill take it!!
Their goal is to destroy the private sales of firearms - the guy walking the gun show with the rifle on his back and the for-sale sign on it, folks selling guns at a range and of course, all of the different private sale gun websites.
They don't need to actually ban this activity, instead, they simply need to make a bunch of high-profile busts - or murders like they did to the guy from Arkansas - to make most people afraid of trying to sell their guns.
This way they can say that they aren't banning the private sale of guns - you can still sell your buddy your old hunting rifle - instead, they're going after "illegal arms dealers" like the guy trying to sell his old SKS at a gun show because he needs to replace the water heater.
It will be aggressive at gun shows or when one sells on Gunbroker or any other website. Will they hit the individual, sure if they trace a firearm back to them.
I'm positive GunBroker has been researched and the raids are being planned right now.
All those people selling M91/30s these days would be in serious trouble, if ATF cracks down on this ridiculous rule.
So, after the repeal of prohibition regulation of alcohol is supposed to be left to the states. Firearms and explosives are both arms. So maybe they can regulate tobacco, though any drug regulation is sketchy under the precedent that prohibition required an amendment.
I absolutely enjoy your conundrum arguments... thought provoking!
What is the Farmer owner's protection act ?
Tom, I'm looking forward to your take on the pistol brace rule being vacated. I thought that was what this was.
I WILL post my comments, RUclips.
I'm NOT going to comply, ATF. Get fucked.
Yeah that'll really show RUclips who's boss
@@RoverTheDog1 RUclips is deleting some comments. Get it straight.
@@lmbear I know they delete comments 😂. It's just funny the way he phrased it as if RUclips cares.
ATF does thing they are Congress and more.
?
Well considering the ATF murdered that man at 6:00 a.m. when all they needed to do was show up at his office, that says it all