But Fire Emblem was ALWAYS Anime...Right???
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2024
- In this editorial I attempt to debunk the common saying that "Fire Emblem has always been anime". With Fire Emblem Engage's art being such a hot-topic, I've seen this defense thrown to dismiss criticism of this game's art-direction. But I never really agreed with the use of this term.
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Timestamps:
Intro: 0:00
"Fire Emblem Has Always Been Anime" 2:28
Shouzou Kaga and fan appeal 3:30
Kaga's Anime Influences 4:30
Fire Emblem's usual standard 6:40
"Always Been Anime" is incorrect.
Preferences 8:38
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Kaga Interview garmtranslations.wordpress.co...
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Gameplay Footage by Nintendo Life: • We've Played Fire Embl...
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In a war against the Fell Dragon, four kingdoms worked together with heroes from other worlds to seal away this great evil. One-thousand years later, this seal has weakened and the Fell Dragon is about to reawaken. As a Divine Dragon, use rich strategies and robust customization to meet your destiny-to collect Emblem Rings and bring peace back to the Continent of Elyos.
Team up with iconic heroes from past Fire Emblem games
Summon valiant heroes like Marth and Celica with the power of Emblem Rings and add their power to yours in this brand-new Fire Emblem story. Aside from merging appearances, Engaging lets you inherit weapons, skills, and more from these battle-tested legends. The turn-based, tactical battle system returns with a fresh cast of characters you can customize and Engage to carefully craft your strategy.
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#FireEmblemEngage, #fireemblem, #FE17 
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Love the thumbnail lol 😆
Xenoblade and Fire Emblem was inspired by anime but each has unique art style in each games.
I think they adapted part of the first game into an anime. It only lasted 2 episodes.
2:50 into the video and you're already factually wrong. That art style was already prevalent in 70s/80s/early 90s anime. It's only recently (20+ years) that anime became this very stereotypically stylised into what's universally recognised as 'anime'
sorry to bother but do u have a twitch at all?
It was anime back in the day too, but it was more 90s stylized. The meaning of what anime is has just become extremely blurry as of late. It used to just be a name assigned to asian animation for westerners.
Even further back than that. “Anime” was actually a Japanese slang for the English word “Animation”. They literally used it for anything that wasn’t live action and even now they call any cartoon of any kind from any nation “Anime”. It was mostly a western thing to assign the name to exclusively Asian media.
Exactly
This 10000%
I feel you so hard on this. I have no idea what people are willing to classify as "anime" anymore. It feels like it's used to classify art styles, but everyone has their own idea of what "anime" is; it's not even an art style to begin with.
@@Granetdud it is definitely a genre of style in animation and art
I feel like the big difference is that we went from a Medieval game with Anime influences, to an Anime game with Medieval influences, to just a straight up anime game.
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This. I was going to write a long reply, but this explains it so much clearer in less words.
@@Drstrange3000 nah bruh I feel you this dude hit it on the nail
The anime game with medieval influences really took charge in Fates. Awakening still kept that medieval game alive because it was the technically the final game of the Archanea Saga, sure it had kids and stuff but if anything it was an expansion on what Genealogy did and they didn't kill your entire cast of parents and just replace them with kids. It gives you the option that if you marry a unit their kid becomes available. It was a great concept taken too far with Fates.
@YouHaveAyds agreed. Awakening kinda transitioned it but Fates is where it became just kinda anime with a tinge of midevil. 3H went even farther, and I refuse to buy engage even if I'd probably like it from gameplau just because it hurts me to look at it.
using Kaga’s not knowing of the word “tsundere” as a way of saying he didn’t design the characters to appeal to people isn’t a strong argument. Many tropes like Tsunderes were in older manga(ex. Lum from Urusei Yatsura) but people simply didn’t have a set name for them. Terms like “tsundere” didn’t start being used until around the 90’s-2000’s when anime otaku culture was getting more popular. Kaga was a middle-aged man by the time this boom happened, so of course he wouldn’t know what the word is. People knew what these tropes were, they just didn’t name them yet
Its like the American ice queen and stoner didn't really come around until the 90s and 00s. But both tropes are in a movie like grease.
The thing is though when a trope gets named, it creates trends that are then pursued with intent of capitalizing on the popularity of the trope. Lum has the qualities of a tsundere, but she is not written to JUST be a tsundere. That's an important distinction.
@@CappnRob well you see that's because there's actual differences within archetypes
Rin from Fate is a distinct character than Louise (I think that was her name) from Zero no Tsukaima and both are considered tsunderes just different degrees between cold that eventually warms up and bipolar bitch respectively
@@Sigismund697 yes of course, my point is just that chsracters written to BE tsundere, put their trope at the forefront of their character, where as those who do not, the trope tends to feel more of a natural extension of the character. The idea of a belligerent love interest who it hot and cold towards their romantic partner isnt new; but there’s a solid line between writing a character who fits that mold vs one that is BEING the mold. In worse case scenarios the trope doesn’t even compliment the character and just exists to have the trope for trope appeal, like the yandere element of Tharja in Awakening.
@@CappnRob But how can you prove the archetype is added because of appeasement or because the author wanted it?
My distaste from Engage's style won't stop me from buying the game, but I do feel like we hit a really nice spot with Echoes and would like to see more of that kind of style.
Same, I love how the armour in it actually looks somewhat like European armour too! It's nice to not think 'why is there no armour at X' when looking at a character
I mean... I feel like this logic is the exact reason why video game companies don't put more importance on customer opinion
@@monfernovaTrue, and FE has been significantly more "anime" since Awakening, so most of the fans are anime fans, and this is what they want.
Probably because Hidari works illustrating fantasy works very often, his designs and illustrations for Atelier for example are similarly pretty good.
I do like mika's design a lot, since I feel that after 15+ games, doing something so over the top and new, is fun and refreshing, I like the art direction.. Buut Hidari being one of my fav artists.. If in the future we get another illustrated game by him it would be cool
@@xravenx24fe *That pretty much denies many of the anime I was raised by.* The pre-Awakening titles are very reminiscent of anime like Record of Lodoss War and Berserk (but less dark) or more recent ones like Arslan Senki and Grancrest Senki. The Radiance games were full of typical anime archetypes as well, Ike being an embodiment of shounen protagonist in the first and even looking like Guts with blue hair in the second. My second game, Blazing Sword, even employed the typical shounen trio composition of 2 male+1female protagonists. I could go on and on, but let me just end by saying that those people didn't like Fire Emblem when it was "less anime", they liked it when it was MORE LIKE OLD ANIME. *I know it might not seem like anime to the new generation, but DAMN it was way closer to 90s/2000s anime than it was to anything else.*
Anime is such a broad term, many animes have different styles based on the time period, director, studio and much more. Some anime studios came in to direct cutscenes for fire emblem games, such as studio Khara for fire emblem 15. Fire emblem has "always been anime" but anime can vary drastically.
Personally i think Engage's artstyle for the character designs is hit or miss, but the combat animation and world design is good.
Anime is just animation by asian or something similiar that is similiar style that pretty much it anime is suppose be broad
That is the point of the argument "It always have been anime", express in more detail what do you dislike about the stile, because anime is so brad, and in some way fire emblem have always used artists that have work on the manga/anime industries
I mean even if it is a broad term there are still common trends in stylistic choices across the board. While there are many outliers there's still a general idea of what "anime" looks like in current time periods. The same goes for basically every single piece of art out there.
@@bornanime3255 The general idea of what an anime is "supposed" to look like is still highly dependant on when it was made, the demographic it's for, the genre and/or tone, among other things.
This is pretty much how I feel. The art STYLE is beautiful imo. Many of the DESIGNS are absolute garbage. Or they're fine as designs and just don't work well in the realm of Fire Emblem. People complaining about Engage being too anime are really silly. You don't have to like the style by any means, but calling it too anime is so weird.
Saying Kaga wasn’t using popular tropes and then using Gundam (a mega popular anime series) and Char (a hugely influential character archetype) as examples of things FE was influenced by is hilarious
Arguably few things are more anime than Gundam
I think a lot of the frustration behind the “always been anime” statement comes from years and years of “anime” being used as a pejorative across various video game series. Anime is an extremely broad term that means many different things to many different people, so using it as a blanket criticism is not only bad at describing what the actual problems are, it feels extremely dismissive of an entire medium that means a lot to many people. Personally, I’m not the biggest fan of Engage’s art style, but it has nothing to do with how “anime” it is. It’s just a matter of different art styles appealing to different people.
Fire Emblem, Zelda and Pokémon have always been anime inspired video games, but there really isn't one specific anime artstyle. Anime can be anything from Astro Boy to Lupin the Third, Inuyasha, Dragon Ball Z, Cowboy Bebop, Cardcaptor Sakura, One Piece or Sword Art Online. Older Fire Emblem games have a more grounded art style with more attention to shading medieval looking costuming but it's still anime. Instead of using anime as a blanket criticism people should look at what they like or dislike about different Fire Emblem artstyles and look into the types of anime they were inspired by.
Exactly. The problem essentially boils down to people using the word anime as an insult. Disliking one style of anime is far different than disliking anime as a whole, or using the word as a negative descriptor.
The problem is that older FE titles only don’t seem “anime” because the stuff Japan was producing in the late 80’s and early 90's was drastically different to the stuff made in the past couple decades.
So, I still stand by the opinion that Fire Emblem was always anime.
They always hired magaka and anime artist even for the first couple of games. The serie always had "anime" inspired character design. Also, aside from Aleir and a couple of other character the rest of the cast is pretty solid with the rest of the series
Same and just because something looks more realistic in an anime style doesn’t mean it’s still not anime.There are dozens of animes with a more realistic style and no one is saying that these aren’t animes.People have set one expectation or standard for anime that they forget that there are many many artstyles in this genre whatever it’s more realistic or "cartoony"
Yeah that is like saying phantasy Star 4 doesn't have an anime art style just because it doesn't look like modern anime that is stupid especially because it looks extremely like old school fantasy anime like slayers
Agreed. Old school FE looks and feels very at home with fantasy anime from its era. As other comments have dug into, people are calling it "anime" when they actually mean something else. They say "anime" when they really mean "the designs are too moe" or "the characters are too eccentric". Things that are more prominent in anime (and cartoons) than other medium, but don't actually define the medium.
Didn’t fe1 also literally had an anime adaptation
I think the whole issue here is the framing of the discussion. It starts with people saying Engage is "too anime" which is an overly simplistic critique that is the verbal form of gesturing vaguely at current anime trends to show why you don't like something. Similarly, the response to this comment is often "FE was always anime" which is arguably an even larger generalization as it basically does the same thing but even more, vaguely gesturing at the anime trends that have changed over time and simultaneously FE has changed to reflect them from time to time.
So instead we need to just address the fact that calling something "too anime" isn't a very specific statement. It could mean a hundred different things according to how the person saying that views what "anime" is. So if you want to have a discussion about a game (not just Engage) when they say something is "too anime" just ask people to be specific with what they don't like instead of trying to out-generalize them.
Saying that about FE is stupid, for it ALWAYS WAS. but yeah, if you only like action games, of course you won't like something like Iron 19.
i think we have different understanding of "anime" because when I say fire emblem was always anime I talk about the artstyle not anime tropes
That's what most of us mean when we say it's always been anime, the art style.
Yes, the series has naturally shifted art styles with each new art director. So I don't think it's somehow wrong to point out that Fire Emblem has always had that stylizaton that was usually current to the time the game was made during, because the artists naturally have a style that develops along with general anime art style trends.
@camharkness Thats the problem with these arguments all together. People need to stop saying its "too anime" or "it was always anime". People have different definitions and it doesn't exactly say what they mean
Yeah, I came to the video thinking it was going to talk about whether the artstyles looked anime or not xd
I think the biggest problem is that back in the day, the inspiration came from anime that were actually tonally appropriate. Hearing that early Fire Emblem was inspired by Legend of the Galactic Heroes makes so much sense now that I hear it, because that anime has an aesthetic that is actually suited to the kind of war story that literally every fire emblem game ever made has. I feel like Engage's artstyle is more comparable to what would have happened if Kaga was inspired by the aesthetic of Sailor Moon and decided that that was the visual direction he wanted his medieval war story to have; a fucking disaster.
My problem isn't that it is inspired by anime, but that it is so, so obviously taking visual inspiration from the wrong anime, in the wrong genre, and the tonal whiplash absolutely deserves all of the backlash that it has received. Anime in different genres look very different, so while I agree that the argument that it was 'always anime' has some merit to it, it is still an utterly myopic response to criticism of the art direction of Engage.
I think that the reason for this issue in the first place is that the art direction of Engage was very obviously brought about to pander to the modern weeb population, while under Kaga the direction was done to suit the kind of story that he wanted to tell and his own artistic vision. They literally brought on a vtuber model designer, I don't know what else to say. I think the gameplay has the potential to be fun (at least as far as I expect modern FE to be), but for a game that is supposed to be an homage to the series, it sure feels like it is spitting on everything that brought it to where it is.
Ghast, I don't know how to tell you this but you just made the argument that "no, Fire Emblem wasn't always anime" and then proceeded to list every single way it has always been anime. FE4's plot is even effectively just Legends of the Galactic Heroes but with knights, incest and sorcery instead of space ships and mech suits. It happens that the standard anime style has shifted and Fire Emblem's character designs have always been more or less in-line with many anime you'd see upon their release. The moeblob, same-face syndrome seen now is simply how anime is now, and the more realistic proportions of the older games were how anime was then. Same with the tropey characters, terms like "tsundere" weren't even in peoples lexicon back during the Kaga era. Anime has changed. Fire Emblem's artstyle and writing have also changed. But they were never that far off from each other to begin with.
Totally agree with you Shattercoin, maybe I'm grasping at straws over here but I'm toying with the idea that they went with a much more exaggerated "anime" style in this title to try and contrast these world's characters to the characters of the older games, somewhat like how Xenoblade 2 differentiates between Drivers and Blades.
However, my argument falls (or maybe it's proven right?) When you notice that the Emblems of the new games are closer and closer to the sensibilities of Engage's character design.
Take care man.
100%. I just ended the video with confirmation bias that Fire Emblem has always been anime. Because it always has been. Cowboy Bebop doesn't have as many modern anime tropes as Full Metal Alchemist. does that mean Cowboy Bebop isn't Anime? Not a great argument by Ghast.
Moeblobs might be how MOST anime characters are now, but that's also ignoring the outliers. Vinland Saga, the Garo anime projects, Tiger & Bunny, Devilman, Blade of the Immortal, and Hero Mask all feature original character designs compared to that of the standard "moe-anime" aesthetic. Saying "it's just how anime is now" is also ignoring the fact that different genres and target demographics exist within the medium of anime. You'll be hard-pressed to find seinen anime conforming to the typical moe anime look, and the same can be said for a lot of Josei anime and manga. Moe-anime might be the most popular aesthetic post-2010, but it's far from the only one. People are still within their rights to not enjoy the new art direction, especially when it's so inconsistent and far-removed from the rest of the franchise save for Awakening and Fates.
@@NintendanGX people are well within their rights to dislike the art style. It's not my preference personally either. But the core of the argument is that it's ALL anime. Regardless of style. To say it wasn't anime is just flat out wrong. No one is disputing the fact that anime contains a vast range of styles. But labeling one thing as "anime" just to dig and whine at the art style is more disingenuous than saying it was anime all along.
@@portaalchemica Fun Fact Record of Lodoss War and Slayers were very big inspirations for the FE GBA games.
I feel like "the series is too anime" fails as a criticism because it is so broad and nonsensical because it's hard to even say what "too anime" means. When we say " it was always anime" we mean that the series art direction has always had a kind of anime influence and the kinds of anime the series takes inspiration from changes over time, but still anime. It is a big medium with lots of genres so "its too anime" doesnt work. And "it was always anime" points out in a simple condensed manner as to why. Maybe point out more specifically what bothers you like "too moe" or "too fanservicy" and that will make a lot more sense.
Or too tropey but then again fire emblem has always been built on archetypes which are a type of trope
@@ryancraig110 Tropes and archetypes are good when used well, so when people say something is "too tropey" I assume they mean the tropes used weren't used well.
It's the second coming of fates. There.
@@tomo8940 Well that's better but now I'm going to tell you that Fates was good actually
@@justingraton17 Conquest was really fun in terms of gameplay, if extremely poorly written IMO. Birthright was boring in both aspects, and we don't talk about Revelations.
In terms of art, while still being too 'zany anime people haha' for my taste, I think that Yusuke Kozaki's character designs have more soul than those of Engage. And also just look way cooler than the goofy ah outfits and faces in engage. Although that is obviously just my opninion.
I think the art direction of engage is frankly baffling, and I hope the next game is more in line with older games, like 3H was.
Honestly, this video reinforced my opinion that Fire Emblem has always been anime. To me, anime has always been about the art direction, regardless of its narrative purpose. Even when expressed purely as an art form, anime is extremely diverse in the same sense that western cartoons and animations are extremely diverse. Anime creates strong opinions because of its cultural impact, first and foremost, and there will always be detractors for endless reasons.
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Long story short
It’s a freaking style we just get attached too
@@nezahuatez "Sensible and knowledgeable take." As in, the polar opposite of your second sentence.
@@nezahuatez The only type of response a strawman argument like the one you made deserves
I mean, I would argue that the idea of a Char was nearly as influential to 80's anime as a the concept of Tsundere is to modern anime. Kaga might say that he doesn't chase trends (and it may be the case he doesn't do so intentionally) but he certainly replicated one of the most popular anime tropes of all time shortly after the height of its popularity.
Char literally has his own TV trope named after him so trying to use that as a defence is why it wasn't anime which it was is incredibly stupid
Technically he wouldn't be trendy but an early adopter or a trend setter
Jeez, Engage really sparked the most discussion when it came to art direction.
Also it is eye opening to find out Kaga's Anime Influences were Gundam and Legend of Galactic Heroes. Both stories are about war and and losing memorable characters the more the story progresses. Now I can't unsee Char in Camus.
As for the statement itself, while it is true for Kaga that he doesn't let popular trends overshadow his games , especially when it comes to the anime of his time, we can't say the same for the rest, since the production of the later games was helmed by somebody else. Also, in my opinion, the globalization of the animated medium has truly transformed how people see other media and tend to compare based on what they watched and learned.
Agreed.
I see people saying FE started to become "more anime" with Awakening, but then how about Radiant Dawn and Path of Radiance, both titles rich in characters fitting common anime tropes and with very typical anime/manga art style from the time? The ones before too. Roy's design is straight up your old school shounen protagonist material.
Essentially, what I mean is that the newer anime styles aren't "more anime" than the anime the older Fire Emblem titles drew inspiration from. It's all anime.
Gundam was also being inspired later on for Xenogears too
Char exactly looks like FE1 Camus I noticed.
@@rafaelcalmon2858 Fun Fact Record of Lodoss War and Slayers were very big inspirations for the FE GBA games.
I'm going to probably end up repeating a lot of other comments when I say Fire Emblem is and always has been anime inspired. It was just inspired by a different era of anime for much of its history. I kind of liken it to the Trails series of JRPGs. The first set of games (the Sky Trilogy) was inspired by late 90s to early 2000s shonen and shojo anime. The next set of games, the Crossbell duology, was inspired by late 00s to early 10s urban 1920s and 1930s-esque anime (Baccano is a good example). Meanwhile, the Cold Steel games are inspired by modern anime tropes. Can you guess which games get the "its too anime" gripe directed at it most often? It's the Cold Steel games. I think the modern Fire Emblem faces similar criticism for much the same reason; we here in the West (with the exception of veteran Western anime fans snd those who go out of their way to watch the classsics) are much more familiar with the modern anime tropes and aren't as knowledgeable on older anime tropes. To make a long story short, Fire Emblem HAS always been anime, just a different type and era of anime than most of us in the West are familiar with.
What a perfect reply to this nonsense video. thank u.
"fire emblem wasn't always anime it was just inspired by one of the most popular war animes of the time" lol
The video in a nutshell 😂
Which anime?
Oh boys, Kaga being a fan of Legend of Galactics Heroes during FEIV development DEFINITELY had some influence on the 1st generation ending.
Yang 😢
@@bigevilshark1958 Fun Fact Record of Lodoss War and Slayers were very big inspirations for the FE GBA games.
My problem with this whole thing is that people suck at communicating their ideas. If what people mean by “too anime” is that Engage has moved too far from “realism” or that it is too close to current trends or even that it is reminiscent of the parts of anime you don’t like, then say that. People that say “FE was always anime “ usually mean something like anime doesn’t have a single art style or if you look at anime released around the same time as some older games, they look like those games’s style. If we just said the long version we’d stop talking past each other (hopefully).
I was on the side that didn’t like the art style, but it’s grown on me.
I honestly had no idea that so many FE fans didn't watch or like anime. For me I was actually drawn into the series because of it's anime art style, since I already really enjoy watching anime. I was under the impression that anyone who liked FE also loved anime. It's a little bit disappointing to find out that isn't the case, but not everyone needs to enjoy the same type of media and that's totally fine by me.
I remember one of the Tear Ring Saga's lawsuits mentioning Kaga's preferences for heavy armor desigs was heavily inspired by Gundam (the early ones), so while anime has always had an influence in FE, during the Kaga era and a bit after his departure, the "anime-ness" of FE always felt focused with capturing one specific type of genre compared to now where everything is very dependant on what kind of direction/feel the current game wants to capture.
Yes, it was. It was just anime of their respective eras.
being in the community ive noticed a lot of the arguments made but i believe these are what they're trying to say
'fire emblem is now too anime' is generally used by people who are fans of fe before awakening.
i think what they mean by this is that there's been a tonal shift with art and writing where characters are now typically more "moe" and uses anime tropes
'fire emblem has always been anime' is generally used by people who take the argument at face value because the art shift is literally just following anime trends. the design decisions mimic styles that are popular during those times. fe1-2 look like characters from 80s anime, 3-5 look like 90s anime characters, 6-12 look like 2000s anime characters. and there were also less tropes because they follow anime trends. even if kaga didnt intend for it to be that way, it still follows those trends.
at the end of the day, it's just an art style preference and i happen to enjoy this modern look anyway since it's cute and colorful. i do hate that this is the trend and there's not much breaking out of it
That's part of it but I think most of the problem with how modern FE looks is that the art style of a game is almost always highly determined by the story's tone and plot. And the art of Engage screams "The Power of Friendship" to me.
Don't get me wrong there have always been elements that FE shared with stereotypical shonen stories. But FE, old FE at least, has always had a element of maturity that a lot of shonen lack. That doesn't GUARANTEE that Engage will be a tropey pile. But it is a worrying first sign.
I usually highly respect your opinion, but this video is really badly done in my opinion. You literally contradict yourself in the next sentence after a claim. You claim that you don't think that the claim that Fire Emblem has always been anime is factually correct, but then claim word for word, "Fire Emblem has always maintained some form of realism while adhering to some fantasy anime standard." So what is it then? Has it always been adhering to the fantasy anime standard or not?
Next you talk about intentions, and cleverly obfuscate by only focusing on the games that Kaga created(who only created the first 5 Fire Emblem games). The idea behind "Fire Emblem has always been anime and has evolved with such tropes," is the idea that each generation of Fire Emblem has modernized its art style and tropes. Not that literally every single game was updating as the developers looked to put in the most current popular anime style
There is a conversation about appealing to the fans of the series vs appealing to the general public. However, I would argue that literally every Fire Emblem game recently except for maybe Echoes appeals to the general public.
I don't think many people who are saying, "Fire Emblem has always been anime and has evolved to fit the times" use it as a way to shield engage from any criticism over it's art style or writing. It is used to counter specific criticism that the series has started to evolve in a different way recently compared to how it has evolved before. You tried to prove this in your video, that Engage is a more significant departure; but I believe it failed for the reasons I already mentioned above.
I mean kinda. But different types of anime tho.
True
The weirdness of the term "anime" to define an entire suite of art styles in a way to dismiss the material is frustrating. The most literal definition of judging a book (or game in this case) by its cover. You can like or dislike art styles, but find more substantial ways to describe what you do or don't like.
Final Fantasy XIV has been called "too anime" by some of my acquaintences in the same manner, as a way of dismissing it outright without consideration. It's a mindset that seems to me to just outright hate on eastern games and eastern art styles.
I totally agree with your point in this saying "Fire Emblem has always been anime" is trivializing a bigger conversation.
But I would also say that the flip of this argument "The new Fire Emblems are too anime now" is also not really a fair critique by the same notion.
I see this argument from a lot of the community that just doesn't really "like anime" - which again, not everything is for everyone, that is fair and I am sorry that a series you love seems to be going in a direction you dislike. But the issue here is that "anime" isn't a singular style or concept or trope. Many will point out that it is just the japanese word for animation - which is true - but I also think we can agree that at least in the west when we use the word anime we are not including the simpsons. And at this point just limiting it to "only japanese made animations" doesn't work either.
Without getting too ranty - the definition of "what is anime" is already very grey - and contains countless styles, mediums, and techniques. So to try to argue "how anime" something is - and if that is a good thing - is just the wrong question, and almost always a bad faith critique made by people who have already decided "anime good" or "anime bad."
I really appreciate you finding the core of the change in your mind - the departure from a style more grounded in realism. I can appreciate that stance. Personally I don't mind the less grounded approach and find myself enjoying the engage character designs (aside from alear) - but by talking specifics you have opened the conversation for genuine discussion and critique - without baggage and picking sides. So, thanks!
ah yes, Kaga wasn't conforming to the popular anime stylistics at the time. He was drawing inspiration from this obscure esoteric series known as "Mobile Suit Gundam".
You probably wouldn't have heard of it.
okay but in seriousness, I think it's equally shallow to say fire emblem has become more anime in recent as it is to say that it has always been anime. Each game really just has the artstyle the art team decided to go in the direction of. Old FE games took inspiration from the look of particular anime of their time as is even mentioned in this video, Gundam is one of the biggest anime series ever made and LoGH is a big classic. Newer FE games seem to work around just the general style of it's lead artist, all of which also have anime roots but I'd also argue are more personalized.
I still don't think Awakening Fates Echoes or Three Houses look like any anime you'd see on TV. Kozaki and Hidari's art in particular are really stand out stylistically and for better or worse I think Mika's heavily colourful art may join this camp. I get why people dislike Engage's style but as someone who has always loved excess saturated colour this game is one I'm visually looking forward too. I liked Alear's design even back during the old leak if I'm being completely honest.
Hard agree. I thought the design was super low res but I’ve been a fan since the official trailer dropped.
Hard agree indeed.
it's also twice as funny because LoGH had a remake (the new thesis) and people complained that it was now "too anime" because it went with a more modern approach despite being both more loyal to the original novels AND kept the character designs
So Faerghast is just some ignorant person who doesn't know what he is talking about?
@@Sigismund697 Fun Fact Record of Lodoss War and Slayers were very big inspirations for the FE GBA games.
I think when someone says that the newer fire emblem is too anime, they really trying to say it’s too moe. And that fine to feel that way. But it’s really hard to deny that fire emblem has always been influenced by anime.
The child-like features(or moe as you call it) and the fanserivce is what made FireEmblem so popular unforutantely. These visual and cutesy concepts are all it seems to be what appeals to the new generation of gamers. Gone are the days of grounded, complex war-like stories. Instead we got Loli Manakete and Women in bikini armor with hovering magic books...
@@jupiterapollo4985 I still think fire emblem is a staple of the tactical rpg genre despite all. And there’s plenty of not “moe” games in the genre still. Triangle Strategy, Diofield Chronicles and even Tactics Ogre Reborn came out just last year, so I wouldn’t say the days of grounded, complex war-like stories are gone.
@@jupiterapollo4985 IF you think the series whose first game featured a blue-haired Anime boy and his blue-haired girl friend and his 1000 year old green haired dragon defeating an evil dragon with the power of friendship and love was grounded in complex war-like stories i've got news for you. The grounded complex war-like stories were the exception in the series not the rule. In fact, two of those games(RD and POR) nearly killed the entire franchise until Awakening brought the series back to it's core roots. If you don't like what FE currently is then you never liked FE.
@@Guy-cb1oh So we're just ignoring 4,5,7 and 8?
@@wakkaseta8351 now im not here to agree or disagree with either of you because quite frankly, i dont care. FE is fun and i dont care how "anime" it is. what i do want to point out is that you brought up 4 games in a series with 18 games. thats still the exception, and not the rule, by definition
>says Fire Emblem hasn't always been anime
>shows Fire Emblem was always based on anime
What?
Tellius is 100% inspired by Berserk. It's the same general character design down to Ike being inspired by its main character. I couldn't give you one for gba, but Tellius for sure.
I honestly think saying something is too anime is like saying something is too paint, too sculpture, too film, too western animation, is a medium, that tells a lot of different stories, sure there are troops, stereotypes, and all in a lot of anime, just as in popular western tv shows, and films, but is not something that has to be or is in every anime, just because is anime... saying that I am not a fan of moe character design, but I want this game.
"Anime" might not be the best descriptor.
"Moe" however sounds more apt and applicable
The point to me was never to defend Fire Emblem, it was to defend anime.
Anime is a large, large spectrum that is often mischaracterized by ignorant people. The current most trending anime is the second season of Vinland Saga, a very "kaga" kind of anime so to speak. And it is not an exceptions, plenty of serious and mature shows that lack the silly tropes are succesful every year.
"Too anime" is a criticism that mean nothing because it imply anime is an unified artstyle with definite features wich is simply not true. Berserk is just as anime as Sword Art Online, so if you want to criticize an aestethic because it is not realistic enought, say that instead of dragging down an entire medium that has as many serious show as it has goofy ones.
I respect the Genshin Impact criticism and the Vtuber comparissons a lot more than "too anime" because those criticism do name a speciphic aestethic that, according to critics, does not fit Fire Emblem. In fact i agree with them. But just because i agree witht the general idea does not mean i believe it is formulated correctly.
So this video just says that it’s always been anime while trying to say it hasn’t always been anime. Fire Emblem just evolved like all the other anime in art style. The story of modern fire emblem could easily be the serious war story while having that newer anime art style. It’s just that as they entered the “modern era” they started using modern anime tropes as anime was becoming incredibly popular around the time awakening was released. But they have always used anime tropes.
I mean even older games use anime tropes. It's ALWAYS BEEN TROPEY.
It's hard to take certain scenes seriously when all the characters in the room look like VTubers
Dude. I just hate the Main characters hair. There's a Reason most Characters with two hair colors have it only on there tips. Not this toothpaste design
@@nezahuatez There's a difference between a character's costume and a literal physical trait. Your take is just as bad as the person you're trying to call out.
Of course it was always anime. Anime has just changed like everything changes. The anime we watched back in the 90's and the anime of today do have some things in common but they're still very different. Besides that, Fire Emblem has its own tropes mixed into it as well.
It's always been anime, it's just more stereotypically anime now
Big agreement on the tellius games, it feels like they nailed saturation (i think that's the right term) perfectly, you have characters with purple or green hair yet they're made to fit quite well with characters with more natural hair colors notably
Big agree
Yeah I agree, only thing I find a bit funny in the Tellius games is that branded are meant to have unusual hair colours, Michaiah is meant to be notable for her silver hair but why lol, Zihark has grey hair too and why is silver notable in a world where bubblegum pink is a normal natural colour. Aside from that though, the crazier hair colours do actually blend surprisingly well with the normal ones
The Tellius games nearly killed the series with the bland character designs being one of the many reasons why.
@@Guy-cb1oh oh i didn't know that and that's an understandable pov, although i think it makes them quite harmonious together
@@Guy-cb1oh Senri Kita who did the art work the Tellius games also worked on SNK games like Samurai Shodown.
It literally always has been anime. When someone says it like this it just means it was influenced by the anime and manga of the time, that's it. You can compare with series of the same time and see similar art, not only for influence but because many of those artists were manga or anime artists working as charater designers in Fire Emblem
Something that frustrates me personally is how often "art style" and "character design" seem to be conflated when talking about Engage, and I think it has lead to a lot of talking past each other amongst fans. Personally, I largely like the art style of Engage, and because of that, I've really loved seeing the classic characters rendered in this new style. On the flip of that, I find the vast majority of Engage's original character designs to be gaudy and distracting, and consider myself firmly NOT a fan of those. When the game's art direction is critiqued for being "too anime" it can be hard to tell whether people are getting at just one of those facets, or both.
All that aside, this video definitely makes for some interesting insight into the historical inspiration for fire emblem, so thank you for making it! I'll definitely be looking forward to your future videos exploring more of these topics
This comment should be pinned! I wanted to say the same thing :)! I see it getting mixed up everywhere too.
Meanwhile I adore how colorful and in your face they are because I'm tired of just... Marth a fiftieth time, if that makes sense?
I think proper criticism would be that modern Fire Emblem abandoned the simplistic yet sophisticated art style of the classic games to now focus on much brighter colors, over-the-top designs and current anime tropes.
Fire Emblem has ALWAYS looked "too anime", but it used its aesthetics to fit the narrative told more competently, with more muted tones, watercolor touches and low contrast in its color palette. Ever since Awakening came out, the designs look like mobile games, too digital and high contrast in nature. The subtlety is also gone in the character writing - especially in Fates, with the out of nowhere and arbitrary deaths in case you don't have a certain support level or maids setting themselves on fire for no valid reason.
Maybe the correct way to address modern Fire Emblem is to state it has lost its subtlety.
For me, personally, the turn off with Engage (and to a lesser extent, Awakening) is visual verisimilitude. In older FEs, regardless of their visual influences, you get a sense of in-narrative livedness. People dress appropriate to what their character is in regards to the settng. Commoners wear common clothes. Nobles wear fancy clothes, but those clothes follow implicit in-setting design trends. It may not be "realistic" in the sense its true to real life, but it is real in the sense of the world they live in. By contrast, character designs in Engage (and, to a less extent, the post-time skip designs of Three Houses, and the designs of Awakening), feel more "designer". Everyone is super individualized and exaggerated, which takes me out of the setting. But that's just me.
That’s a really interesting way of looking at it. I had never really thought about it before but you raise a very good point.
YOU GET IT OMG THANK YOU
Yeah, plus they seem to be falling back into the old traps that I thought we were past already.
Oversexualized women, a brawler who has pencil-thin arms, and speaking of said brawler she and her friend/brother are dressed in clothes that feel too modern for my tastes, and along with everything you said? Well, we have a recipe for disappointment on like...most of the cast. I do still like some designs mind you, like that dancer-like lance user with the very dark skin who's name I forget (like I forget all the names mind you), but otherwise? Yeah...
@@ramenbomberdeluxe4958 ...
@@ramenbomberdeluxe4958 a dancer is like the one character allowed to be super personalized and over the top haha. And yeah I don’t like that Engage is leaning hard on tropey concepts first, especially problematic ones like the femboy who lowers enemy hit rates if theyre men :/
THAT QUOTE EXPLAINS SO MUCH. I love Gundam and legends and I always found it uncanny how 4 and 5s style resembled legends, especially in the case of eldigan to Reinhardt. & 1-3 definitely shares a lot with Gundam. Hearing that quote put so many puzzle pieces together. Me and kaga may have our differences, but he had some damn fine taste in anime
I wouldn’t say Engage is too anime, I do think it’s too colorful with its visuals
Yup
@@xoxo.pochacco moe to be exact
And that's a problem? Not everything has to be dark and gritty.
@@mray4784 I agree, and I actually tend to prefer games with more color and lighter themes, is just a drastic shift from the previous games.
It's just Awakening CG cutscene in real time, it looks really good
the current lead artist does art for v-tubers, which involves making very flashy characters made to attract attention and viewership at a glance, so, that might be what the current parallel is for FE Engage
That explains why they’re subtly off putting to me 😭
Her designing Vtubers has little to do with it, it's just her specific art style. The previous Fire Emblem artist also designed a Vtuber.
@@neidhardt8093 shhhhh dont say it so loud 😂 people are gonna say that 3H art style is too vtuber now
Could be wrong but I believe the artists for Awakening and Echoes also do Vtubers. The reason is because all of them, including Engage’s artist, are really popular artists in Japan and do a lot of different work for different companies. Engage’s artist also worked on Fate for example.
Edit: Wanted to correct that I got it mixed up and the Awakening and Echoes artists didn't design Vtubers. My bad, but I still believe in my overall point.
More like FE Engagement. Heyooooooo
Kaga's run in FE set a precedent on what FE is to a lot of people, that's true, however, it also means that when he left, the door was open for new interpretations of a series that visually got stale to people over the years. Awakening was far more of a departure then people think, and included many western fairytale tropes and over-the-top elements that you could probably consider silly or too anime when compared to Kaga's more reserved style. But that's the thing, it's all about comparisons rather than the merit of itself. If you compare any games from Kaga's run to an authentic western medieval/fantasy, it looks stupid.
Compare Sacred Stones to Game of Thrones. GOT has realistic armor, characters wear clothes suited to their environment and nearly all the materials of their clothes make sense in their given class and profession. Meanwhile, sacred stones have UWU short skirts that would get you whipped in old times, stupid neon-dyed hair that was impossible to get that bright at the time, and fancy bright blue armor that looks like a bootleg megaman robotmaster despite these people supposedly fighting a serious war. Also, their eyes are fucking huge and that's not what people look like, how can I take their war speeches seriously when the they're bangs protrude ten inches from their face
I'm not saying engage is flawless, but when you appreciate something on its own merit rather than compare it to a two-decade-long string of games run by the same guy with little variation, you're gonna hurt your own perspective.
Simply put I think they do more of the "Moe" art style because it's just a lot easier to translate to 3D, they would have to do a lot more work if they did try to make them more "realistic" and majority of companies want to do the least of work for profit and just ride on the IPs name
Plus, the art director worked on modeling v-tubers.
@@Ryan.2 I starting to understand why Fire Emblem is going down hill, there is no consistency with both the artists and writers of the 3d games. The one exception to the rule is Kouhei Maeda, he was the writer of Blazing Sword and he would become the directer of Awakening and Fates.
There's a reason why Dragon Quest is so popular, there's consistency. The main writer and artist of the series is still there.
Finding out Kaga was a Legend of the Galactic Heroes fan makes me ridiculously happy! Everything makes sense now
Yes, Legend is the best anime ever made. It's a masterpiece in every way.
@@fiaschampion3379 couldn't agree more 🍷
@@Oblivionknight Fun Fact Record of Lodoss War and Slayers were very big inspirations for the FE GBA games.
Fire Emblem is kind of like Zelda series in that the artstyle never stays the same
This is like only tangentally related but in light of Fire Emblem taking some inspiration from Gundam, it's kinda funny that the most recent Gundam anime series, The Witch from Mercury, is set in a school and a number of people are talking about how it feels like it's on the road to going full war arc Three Houses
When people call it "anime" I think they aren't properly articulating what they mean. The issue many have is with just how many anime clichés it follows, and how much like modern anime it looks. The issue with being more modern looking is that it loses the dirtier more realistic look it had that made it feel more serious and like medieval fantasy. The clichés for story and characters also make it feel a lot less like medieval fantasy, and more like genshin where they have to be as "likeable" and "quirky" as possible to try and sell them. And like you mentioned, the inspiration for the original is a lot more serious and realistic. Modern anime is VERY different, often times being much more focused on spectacle, power of friendship, being over the top with its interactions, and being as "comedic" or overdramatic as possible. The biggest issue is that it becomes repetitive and predictable, and therefor forgettableas it doesn't do anything new or unique. Engage is exactly that; repetitive, predictable, and forgettable. But it is also more accessible, since it does things that are proven to be popular and successful. Fire Emblem is no longer that more "niche" game franchise for people who like more serious/realistic medieval fantasy with political drama, commentary on war, etc. It's a power fantasy where you get to insert yourself into the role of super epic awesome deserves-to-be-worshipped protag, and see silly scenes with the other quirky characters. And you can tell that's the case by the writing and music. Just listen to the music they have for support conversations in any of the modern fe games since awakening, and you'll see what I mean, especially in later ones like Engage. I like Awakening well enough, but ones like Engage leave much to be desired. It's a shame that they seem to have abandoned the older fans in favor of the more financially successful version of the franchise.
Funnily enough, I've had this discussion a couple of times in the past week.
What seems to be the most agreed upon - at least in the circles I run in - was the following:
So when someone describes something as "weeaboo" or "too anime"
They are referring to a style that falls deep into a cookie cutter or generic style of art that can be indistinct from most others.
For instance, while DBZ is anime, no one really describes it as "too anime".
This type of "too anime" that Engage may fall under can often be seen as having the following:
-excessive sexual characteristics in character design
-simplistic facial features such as large eyes, small nose, and small mouth
-An extravagant of flamboyance in clothing to make up for the generic features
-one-dimensional characterization
-a "too clean" art style on the skin where all skin is untarnished and they are dipped in a vat of lotion
Just to name a few
But the Genshin Impact comparison pretty much fits that mold directly.
People seem to forget that anime is a medium, not a genre.
We all like anime here, but not everyone likes ecchi for example.
True... some of us like ecchi though.
the "engage is too anime" complaint isn't about art style, it's about chara design.
Eh, I get what you're saying but I don't agree with the premise. The early FE art was definitely similar to contemporary manga, especially medieval western fantasy and space opera, both of which had "European" characters who were not depicted with moe characteristics (narrower eyes, longer noses, etc.). Not all manga/anime in that generation was Pokemon or Dragonball Z. Even discounting the shift to overtly moe character design in Engage, Fire Emblem was never going in the direction of say, Final Fantasy, which always tried to emulate real people (apart from hair color).
I think the only thing "wrong" or not what I'd personally prefer about Engage as a whole is some character designs being WAY over the top. Alear is a prime example of a character designer (or whoever was in charge of the design) having nobody saying no or giving them feedback. Ain't no way more than one person looked at this design and thought "yeah, looks perfect!"
The only thing I can think of as a reason why Alear looks the way they do is because its actually part of the story. Alear is two people in one, has some kind of alter ego, or essentially their original/true appearance was all one color but the second color was added at some point relevant to the story. I hope this is the case, and I hope they don't botch the moment like they did with Byleth. (Wow, cool moment where they unlock their full power.... and gain the absolute shittiest shade of green colored hair imaginable).
Some of the other units have stupid designs and bits of crap tacked on which I don't like, but you could say that for a lot of FE games and people can't simply not use those characters.
I'd also say I don't like that older FE characters are involved so much, as they overshadow the new cast and story, but I think there is a lot of room for the game to handle this well.
Alears hair is most definitely a story thing as in some trailers you can see Alear having full red hair looking quite sinister
did you miss the shade of green was supposed to represent how Byleth finally awoke to his manakete side instead of being a pseudo-human with a dragon soul inside?
so he ends up looking like Rhea who is "Awakened" unlike Seteth and Flayn who have shades of green closer to Byleth because they actively suppress their dragon powers?
Those designs are comissions with drafts given on them. a character designer isnt doing something alone, they have things given to them, concepts, drafts and what not and then approved. If the end result is this, taht was approved.
@@Sigismund697 there might be reason behind why it changes but that's no excuse for why it looks so awful. It's not even the same shade of green as Rheas, whose hair looks fine. It's like a sickly pea green or something and doesn't fit the rest of the character imo.
But it's not like that one thing stopped my from playing all 5 routes or anything, loved the game.
@@Kimo-Cyrus yeah I noticed that too, really hope that's the case and potentially they split and we get mono colored hair, or something different. Maybe even get to pick or something.
I really prefer the toned down artstyle of 3 Houses or from the GC/Wii games.
The Engage artstyle is too flashy and not fitting at all for a series about war and battles.
It really reminds me of Genshin Impact, which is plausible since that game has still a massive hype.
*Me looking at AOT with it's flashy spectacles*
Ehhh to each their own
@@AlejandroRodriguez-cy8ee I talked about artstyle (color palette, overdone and ridicilous designs etc) and not fighting animations or epic scenes.
What’s funny to me is that even 3 Houses screamed anime to me with the use of a lot of anime tropes and how it felt their outfits were over-designed. But I guess compared to Engage it’s definitely more grounded.
Exactly
I know exactly how you feel when thinking that it looks like genshin cause when alear was first linked I legit said she looks like a genshin character
What they really mean is looks too Moe/Ecchi anime when they say it looks too anime those kind of anime that exist to sell waifus. Fire emblem has always been anime but most characters in most games would be at home in a contemporary Shonen or sennin series. Every fire emblem matches popular anime styles off the time but it's more so the tone and art direction that can make people have that reaction when I look at Three Houses and Shadows of Valentia I think of stuff like Berserk, Kingdom, Vinland saga, Aura Battler Dunbine, and other similar epic fantasy anime. When I look at Awakening, Fates and Engage I think High School DxD, Hyperdimention Neptunia, Riseing of the sheild hero, Konosuba, and Harem anime basicly goofy fanservise filled brightly colored anime. They have two very different tones
Shadow dragon: has a anime ova
Gaiden/echoes: very similar to grancrest war
Genealogy: shipping
Binding blade: 15 year old leading army
Fates: it is Fates
Also japan style of animation is similar for just about everything else they make
The thing is, no matter what, people were gonna hate it because it's fire emblem.
People have had a hate boner for fire emblem when "majority of the smash roster has a sword" or "majority of the characters in smash are fire emblem!!!"
Exactly, even though those sentiments are not even remotely close to being true. It's insane.
The answer to the title: yes, it was always anime.
It's not just the art style, the narrative also matched the anime of the time. I've been playing Fire Emblem since Sacred Stones, on the GBA. The reason I got into playing Fire Emblem was that it was an RPG with tactical combat and typical anime archetypes, as well as a narrative that felt much closer to anime than to the western cartoons of the time.
I followed Fire Emblem for almost 20 years now and I can guarantee it felt like playing an anime then and still does today. Any grievances are a matter of preference and, hell, I hope no one actually says the Fire Emblem they liked wasn't an "anime game" because that is just plain denial. As if there would be anything wrong with playing a game that matches the narrative often seen in anime, which is frankly one of the very reasons Fire Emblem even became popular in the west.
Personally, it isn't the bright colours that bother me, it's the absolutely ridiculous costumes of some of the characters. And maybe some of the more anime proportions of the faces (like Clanne and Framme). I agree with you, Faerghast, that the style for the characters in the Tellius games was a very well done.
Another thing that irks me, though, is how self-referential Fire Emblem has become. I overall don't like the idea of the Emblem rings. It's almost like the series is starting to eat itself.
Maybe I'm just getting tired of it. In any case, I'm not getting FE: Engage, even though I've been a big FE fan since 2005. Dark Deity looks more to me like the game that Fire Emblem used to be.
First off yes it was always anime. It was just a different time period. No different than saying a game like cuphead is cartoony and a game like wind waker is cartoony. Different eras both are cartoon art style.
Second, idea that a story with bright colors can't convey a serious story with heavy themes is kinda an immature idea. We have numerous games and stories that prove that otherwise. From an anime like code geass to Gundam itself. From avatar to justice league to arcane you can have bright colors and less realistic outfits and carry a heavy theme. That take is wild to me.
This feels like the fe community having to baptise the new fame in whatsoever vague prerelease criticidm they need to.
Anime just means animation in Japanese. So to say art always looked like art is redundant
🤓👆
This is such a pedantic thing to say. There is a cultural understanding that people share when they say something is “too anime.” And that’s already something Faerghast corrects in the very video you’re commenting under by clarifying that when someone says something is “too anime” or saying “Fire Emblem as always been anime” they’re talking about popular tropes that are reoccurring in the Japanese animation industry at the time.
When someone says “I don’t like anime” they’re not talking about whether or not the fact that the cartoon you’re looking at was drawn by Japanese person or not. They’re talking about tropes and literary devices used by that specific industry of animation.
@@DisastrousCake Yes, but even then it's nonsensical because they have to completely fabricate their own definition of what anime is
Edit: Those artstyles and tropes commonly associated the the medium are only one subset off it. It's like trying to generalize all of film off of simply Marvel movies.
This is an argument that goes both ways. People bring up the "Fire Emblem is too anime now" argument as a means to dismissively say that the art direction of the franchise has gotten worse since Awakening in the same way people respond by saying "Fire Emblem has always been anime" to dismiss such criticism. They're both broad blanket statements that are extremely reductive. And as someone who watches a lot of anime, I tend to agree more with the people who say "Fire Emblem has always been anime" crowd, because Fire Emblem has always followed trends of what anime were popular at the time. In the 90s, most fantasy series were more dark and serious in tone, and FE followed suit. But it wasn't just in their story telling, but in the little conversations that exist beneath that. Kaga's key quote in the video is that he watched anime "such as." From this, we know he watches anime, but we don't know all the anime he or his staff watch and how that can more broadly affect the script and direction of all interactions. In FE Book two, when Marth meets Xane, disguised as Tiki, you see a very anime conversation play out there. Tiki, calling Marth Onii-chan, tells him that she loves him, to Marth's shock. It's meant to be a cute and playful heart pounding joke, but one that relied on popular anime/otaku tropes of the time. A young girl, calling an older male onii-chan, is in love with them. In FE5, Tanya is clearly a tsundere character towards Osian in their interactions. Kaga claims to not know what the term tsundere is, but that doesn't mean he wasn't familiar with the archetype and how such characters act given how popular the archetype has been since the late 80s. After all, not everyone who grew up on Hey Arnold will know that Helga was a tsundere character. And as we look through FE's evolution to the modern era, we see this trend continue. Maribelle was certainly not the first Ojou-sama character, when characters like Clarine exist, but she was the first to have "drill hair and blonde hair", a staple of the character type since well before Awakening's era. On the other hand, Owain was the first chuuni character in the series at a time when the archetype was gaining popularity in Japanese anime. And now with the rise of V-Tubers, we have an FE artist who is most well known for designing such characters.
To me, Fire Emblem has always been anime. The only thing that's changed is how it interprets what's popular among modern anime trends to be more inline with what's more mainstream in its era. It's a topic no different than comparing Marvel movies pre and post Disney or the rise in Isekai fantasy series in anime as opposed to just... writing a regular fantasy story. If that ultimately means Fire Emblem will be more Sword Art Online than Record of Lodoss War, then that's what the creators will do since that's just where the trends currently are.
I'm not a fan of a lot of the character designs for the new game but I'll live with it.
I will say tho I watched Legend of the Galactic Heroes for the first time last year and was BLOWN away. It is SO SO good. Highly recommend it to everyone. I would LOVE if Fire Emblem tried to tell stories closer to what was in that. It's one of the reasons why I have such a distaste for a lot of the designs in this series lately. Especially with the villains who just flat out LOOK evil. Keep me guessing, don't just draw the bad guy to look like a demon dude.
I would suggest checking out the Vestaria Saga games if you haven't, they where made by Kaga and definitely follow the old approach to storytelling Fire Emblem used to have under him.
The "evil guy who looks cartoonishly evil" thing really isn't new to the series. Gharnef, nuibaba(gaiden, not SoV), and the Duma priest guy are in the first two games alone. Not to mention Nergal, Riev, etc.
Yeah, Kaga gets 0 points for nonstandard villain design when the very first game had Gharnef and Medeus and his most complex FE had Manfroy and all sorts of evil-looking nobles.
Sure we’ve always had the Camuses and the Michalises but FE from the beginning was never ambiguous about who the bad guys were.
I wanted to watch Legend of the Galactic Heroes but found it hard to get into, dropping it after a couple of episodes which just seemed to open up with a big battle that I had no reason to be engaged with. Does it get better and character focused as everyone claims? Should I give it another go?
@@FullMetalFeline Fun Fact Record of Lodoss War and Slayers were very big inspirations for the FE GBA games.
The Tellius arc are by far my favorite games and I think they have the best art style too, but I also like that FE changes things up every once in a while. It gives different artists opportunities to contribute to the series and allows the games to appeal to more people (in my opinion). Side note, this was my first time really noticing Edelgard with the Engage design and I agree...that is close to nightmare fuel.
The art style is finally matching the over-the-top crit animations that the older games were well known for.
Also, the dialogue (especially support dialogue) has ALWAYS been anime style. The art style finally matches those themes as well.
Could you explain what you mean with "anime dialogue"?
@@Fermin-hw5pd For more recent game with full voice acting try tp play with the Japanese voice for a while to get a feel of it, some of the voices and choice of words during dialogue just feels "anime". It's hard to explain but as someone who has never played any FE game in their Western localization, only in Japanese and Chinese localization, the game's dialogues just feel like any other JRPG and by extension anime to me, so I never understood the argument of FE not being inspired by anime, it's a famous weeb franchise in Asia.
@@amf9797 If it is the voices, I can understand, words...no because I don't know japanese
@@Fermin-hw5pd I could be wrong but it's maybe because it's a japanese game made and write by japanese people, thus it takes the same kind of writing than other japanese stories and so dialogues especially since anime, novel and games often use the same genre and style (SF and Fantasy).
In this way "anime" is just a loose term for talking about genres of imaginative fiction from Japan, since it's their most famous media exported.
Engage's artstyle is just so similar to a lot of typical anime artstyles I've seen to the point where it really just doesn't interest me because Echoes, Three houses, and Path of Radiance/Radiant dawn had such fitting artstyles for the series, and as someone who at least clames to be an anime fan (to a degree) I'm more a fan of the grounded realistic anime style, but pushing my personal taste aside im still getting the game, also im glad someone finally talked about the "FE has always been anime" thing i never understood that as a defense
Personally, I think Fire Emblem "has always been Anime," but not in the way people usually try to take the argument. What I would mean by saying Fire Emblem "has always been Anime," is that the art style of Fire Emblem has always had some of the stylistics of Japanese Animation, which is what Anime is at its core, just a fancy way of saying "the animation styles of Japan." Each entry in the Fire Emblem series is likely influenced in some way, shape, or form by what "Anime art-style," the lead designer thought looked cool or interesting at the time.
Anime isn't one set of codified artistic characteristics. Take a look at some of the Anime from say Studio Madhouse and compare them stylistically to Studio Science Saru. Both studios make Anime but their artistic styles tend to differ wildly from one another because there are not hard and fast rules that define an Anime aesthetic when it comes to art. There are different styles of Japanese Animation just like there are different styles of Western Animation and some will find certain styles more appealing than others.
Watching a summary of the story of all FE games and even screenshots its enough to see all the anime influence
Let me clarify; Fire Emblem has always had an anime art style. However it's been of the time that it's made in. The first Fire Emblem gives me the vibes of some the anime I watched in the 90s and Engage gives me the vibes of more modern anime. So to answer the question "Has Fire Emblem always been anime?" I'd say yes, but anime isn't a terribly descriptive term anyway.
Back when I played 3H I always had this gut feeling that they took some inspiration from Gundam. Especially with Char and how they used the Flame Emperor in 3H. But goodness gracious seeing it actually confirmed in this video is super awesome to see
For me, I just can't take most if the characters seriously. Like I know Fire Emblem has had some more wacky and outrageous designs especially in games like Fates but coming off of Three Houses where all the characters had pretty normal and somewhat realistic designs or like you said, balanced, this is such a dramatic change that it's hard to accept.
You said that like 3H was some masterpiece that no other FE will surpass and therefore nobody should make any changes in future games.
@M ray I literally didn't. All I said was that Engage feels very different compared to 3H and that it feels like a big change.
that's because that's the style of Chinatsu who mainly works on otome games, so pretty boys are her bread and butter and girls that look plain for girls to self insert as
hell I love BL but I'm the first to say the entire house feels like the cast of an otome dating sim with F!Byleth as the protagonist
Engage looks better than 3h which most characters were very boring visually
@@mray4784 They didn't? They were just saying how 3H did it's artstyle, no clue where you got that from
Now that you have mentioned it, I can certainly see the influence of Char Aznable in the character of Camus in the Arcehena series of games for Fire Emblem.
It cool to see that influence go into a series of games I like.
Now i wanna finish Sacred Stones and really get my hands on the Tellius series games.
FEs artsyles reflects the era it's released. It always has. Basically with each new platform it was released on its art changed to like popular Anime artsyles at that time. Now it looks like a modern Anime. Crazy isn't it?
Games yes, but what Anime airing on Television or Streaming looks like this?
@@AkameGaKillfan777 Most generic isekai, Moe shows, harems and fanservise anime games
@@demi-fiendoftime3825 I meant 3D.
It's really hard to define anime, since it's such a broad medium. If you are strictly going based of aesthetics, FE has always followed "anime" visual trends in Japanese media. But even then, art styles in anime vary quite a bit to classify anything under.
I really like Engage's art direction, it's super colorful, the game looks clean, and the characters have very creative designs. It also looks like it will age much better than Three Houses will. People really aught to push past graphics, otherwise it's the same debate as Zelda Windwaker vs Twilight Princess.
Came in here with confirmation bias that Fire Emblem is not anime.
Then you convinced me that Fire Emblem has, in fact, always been anime. Well damn
“I hate that my Japanese game looks like those Japanese animes 😡”
I'm confused about the conclusion on this. Like I agree, and have been saying this for years but at the same time it's a valid argument that "influences" is the same as how, for argument's sake, modern fe is criticized for being "too/became anime" by being more easily comparable to the internet's idea of modern anime. Even if Kaga said "I didn't really want to appeal to others", that doesn't necessarily change anything. It's like someone saying they're immune to external influences, but realistically that's nigh impossible. I guess the more "objective" assessment would be that every FE game reflects styles of anime at the time, but to varying extents. I can't believe we're talking about this stuff (again)... Guess this is what we get for liking a series with very different games.
I enjoyed this video though overall I have to disagree with the takeaway. I'm in the "FE has always been anime" boat, and that's due to a lifetime of watching anime from 70s stuff to modern stuff. There's no one "This is what anime is" answer since it varies so vastly even in the same time frame. For every LotGH there's gonna be something less serious. Same goes for modern stuff, for every harem romcom there's gonna be something more mature and psychological. EVERY FE can be found to have an anime that's similar, regardless of artist/author intent, it's just that so few people talking about it have experience with anything older than the 2000s.
I feel like the debate over whether the art style is “too anime” is misleading. I think people’s real issue is that it’s very exaggerated, especially coming after the relatively grounded designs from Three Houses. Exaggerated designs are common in a lot of anime, but aren’t exclusive to it, not is all anime heavily exaggerated.
If I've learned anything about FE it's that the next games art style will be totally different so I feel like people shouldn't be so worried about the goofier/anime style of engage
Honestly, it feels like nearly everyone has forgotten this important point and is acting like this is a "point-of-no-return, for better or worse".
I don't like this game's visual style but I don't feel the least bit angry about it, because I know Fire Emblem won't look like *this* forever.
As you've pointed out, there's always the next game.
I grew up playing Path of Radiance and Blazing Blade, so I'm mixed on the new art style. I'm used to seeing colorful designs, but I still prefer what was done in the Tellius duo. I do feel like newer games are trying to actually appeal to fans rather than do what they want. However, as long as the characters are fun and multidimensional, I can look past the anime look.
I always find odd how people think something is made to appeal rather than made to please their creator when it's tropey.
Actually I think of the opposite, people like some trope and thus want to use them in their stories.
It is disingenuous to bring up the kaga interviews as somehow evidence of him "not pandering to fans and doing what he wants" and not doing the same with Awakening (the oft accused start of the weeabofication of FE) which has developer interviews with them saying they basically just did whatever they wanted. There is nothing wrong with using a "dismissive and incorrect argument" against and dismissive and incorrect complaint.
Here's a thought, maybe what the Awakening devs wanted was something that would appeal to the most amount of people possible in hopes that maybe it wouldn't be the final game hence the "more anime" look and more social focus. The game absolutely succeeded and drew in millions of new fans and so IntSys continued in that direction ever since and even found greater success each subsequent release leading to Engage being a cut above the rest in that regard this time, much to the dismay of veterans each release they slowly no longer recognise the tone of the franchise they supported for decades and fell in love with.
Now we are presented with a dilemma, they are two very different types of FE fans, modern/new fans who have a greater interest in social mechanics/romance which blends nicely with a "more anime" artsyle and character designs and veterans who simply want a return to the grounded war tactics SRPG in not only gameplay but also art direction causing a big disconnect between older & newer fans.
I think my problem’s less about the art style and more about the writing. Over time it felt less like units were characters and more about playing up _tropes_ of the character to fulfill the player’s “type”. Like let’s compare Fae and Nowi. They’re both dragons who look/act like kids, but they go about it differently. Fae’s unaware of human customs because she’s been hiding from society for being a Manakate. Nowi… reads people’s emotions, I guess? She’s cautious with Nah training with Dragon Stones because she’s still a kid? The most complexity in her supports is just emphasizing how she’ll look SUPER young for another few hundred years. It doesn’t bring drama like Fae’s supports with Sophia, it’s more of a way for Nowi to say “I’ll look young even when you’re old and dying, WINK WINK”
It's just really rough to shift back to the Fates-era DESIGN LOUDNESS after Echoes was fairly restrained-looking and Three Houses was downright laid-back with its character designs. Also the visual style of a game is always going to communicate something about the narrative experience you're likely to have, and the "loudness" of Engage's design has far more negative connotations than positive ones within the Fire Emblem series.
My first FE game was Sacred Stones, so I’m very used to a lot of bright colors in my character designs. I have no issues with Engage from an art direction standpoint. The only deigns I don’t really like are the ones with face markings. The mouth stitches and stars and stuff on people’s faces just is off putting.
My bigger gripe is with some of the voice acting I’ve heard so far. I think a lot of it is… bad. Like I could voice act better than what some of these sound like.
Damn the voice acting must be real bad if you say something like that xd
@@Fermin-hw5pd SOME of them have been rough, that’s all I’m saying. Not all but a couple of them have been so bad I almost want to switch it to JP voices when I know they will be on screen.
I did not know about Kage's anime influence. Hearing about them I can certainly see the similarities. I'm still not a huge fan of Engage's artstyle, might be my least favorite artstyle, but I didn't like 3H design before it was released as well. Now I really dig 3H so I have been convinced. I think I just enjoy the more gritty fantasy/European style. I'll get used to Engage, and I'm hoping/excited to have my mind changed!
I will also state that one of the biggest issues with this discourse is the pretty vague language regarding "Too Anime." People look at the Engage artstyle and decry it as "too anime" but the series has always had anime influences. Whenever someone says "too anime" what they actually mean is "too trope heavy" "too cliché" "too genericized" things in that vein. This isn't really a new problem for the series because for some reason people who like the series but don't like anime are very defensive about how it is totally different.
Fates and Awakening had a tons of character tropes and archetypes considered pretty cliche for trashy anime. The "ara ara" big sister and super peppy little sister (and the fact MC could sleep with both of them) and the same Tsundere and Chunnibyou characters reused in both games. Yandere characters being present in Awakening, Fates, and SoV... the influence of "typical" anime tropes has definitely been talked to death in this fandom.
With Engage, when people say "too anime" they are just talking about the incredibly generic art style/art direction. And people are putting blame on the character designer making Vtuber models or whatever, but I specifically think that this has the same issue as the previous games in the series. They're trying to water down the FE aesthetic so that it has more widespread appeal, diversify the market, that kinda shebang. This look is currently popular (you yourself name dropped Genshin) and therefore they are chasing that trend. Ultimately I think Engage will be worse off for it especially when we're a few more games into the series and have the full benefit of hindsight.
I do agree that "Fire Emblem has always been anime" is a pretty nothing statement in the way it's been used. Though at the same time, it does actually have a correctness to it that is only really visible when you look at the argument from a historical perspective. It's something not a lot of people do, so I'd like to elaborate this point.
Kaga may have stated that he didn't follow trends to make his characters appealing, but the way his plot flowed is very heavily inspired by anime of the time period. The Legend of Galactic Heroes may be his primary inspiration, but the 90s was full of OVA series that were extremely similar in their plot density and depth. The trend at that time period was quality storytelling and animation, and viewers would pay for two episodes at a time just to watch shows with gorgeous animation and compelling stories. Fire Emblem adopted these storytelling principals into a game, and that's why it caught on with anime fans in Japan at the time.
The early 2000s was an interesting time for anime as well. It was a shift from that OVA style of production to the more seasonal releases that we have today. This came at the cost of not being able to write more complex characters, and this was when many of the common anime tropes we know today started to appear. The word Tsundere didn't even exist until around 2004 where this style of anime was becoming the norm. This era of anime, at least in the genres that would relate to Fire Emblem, was more focused on the grand overarching plot rather than on making characters super unique. The protagonist would be interesting brand fleshed out, but side characters were given very little characterization aside from a few traits in order to cut things that were unnecessary for the plot. This is very similar to the GBA and Tellius games. The main cast is very well developed and the storytelling is strong, but the side characters only really get developed in supports.
The 2010s is when anime as a medium really started to focus on moe and selling characters. The genre existed before, but the harem genre really exploded around this point. The focus shifted from making compelling stories to making a marketable story with cute girls or guys. Though that doesn't mean there aren't good stories, but there is a distinct focus on making characters appealing to audiences so they'll buy merch of them. Fire Emblem's naturally followed this trend, and now it's the most successful it's ever been.
Fire Emblem has changed with the evolution of anime as a medium. I hope that putting it into a historical perspective helps people understand that, while Fire Emblem has always been anime. What anime is has changed drastically since the Kaga era of games.
I think you have a gross misunderstanding of "always been anime", I don't believe that should automatically mean "popular anime trend". the art style is still "anime", no matter how you slice it. Anime isn't just one generic look. The better argument should be "I don't like this style of anime" rather than "I don't like anime".
100% agree! It feels like he has watched a small handful of anime's and gone "That must be what all anime's are like" or seen clips or meme's and just based all his thoughts on that.
@@EspirituOtaku the dude literally said he doesnt watch anime or really like it and had to get people who knew more about anime to help him get more of an understanding, which means most of this isnt really his opinion😂
@@ImMetalMechanika don't bother, the majority here won't get the message. any form of criticism will be filtered to "hate"
@@ImMetalMechanika I think it killed his argument on the spot. It's like joining a group of people debating whether a dog in a picture looks like Scooby-Doo and opening with, "I don't know what Scooby-Doo looks like, but here's my opinion."
@@soulmate5589 So the only criticism allowed is the one u want to hear then...
cowboy_arnold So my point stands because its clear that person has not watched anything based a couple main stream shows. If ur going to fan boy you two at least try a little better at making points.
As long as the games aren't going to take themselves way too seriously with this kind of outlandish art style, I have no problem. Although, I think it's about time we get an entry that doesn't try to pander to wider audiences at the expense of grounded art styles, characters, and stories
Hopefully Echoes and that upcoming Switch game in 2018 deliver
Didn't Echoes and Three Houses have grounded art styles, characters, and stories?
@@TuckerswordsINC SoV is the direction I want. 3H mostly gets a pass, but Byleth exists :/
What kind of question is that? Fe was ALWAYS anime looking game ad i still playing it.
I might be a bit off topic, but I believe a similar parallel can be found on the SMT series and it's spin-off, Persona. Althougth most SMT games focus on a dystopian scenario, the influences on how the designs changed with time can be felt, for example between SMT III Nocturne and SMT V. The same happened with Persona. It originated as a branch comming from SMT If and Kaneko's otherworldly artstyle, specially on promotional material shows the balance between dark and some of the over the top characters we think of in anime nowadays on the three first games. Just thought it was an interesting similarity.
That makes me wonder if we could see both older and newer sets of FE fans being pleased by FE branching off with a spin-off series in the future. Obviously it takes twice the work to maintain two franchises, but if they had the resources to do so, that'd be cool to see.
Haven't finished the video yet, but I think it's weird so many people are saying Engage looks too anime. Realistically speaking, the designs are more flamboyant, not more anime. To me, the style barely looks different from Three Houses. It looks like they simply changed engines, which I think is what actually happened.
They did in fact get a new studio for the graphics, Ghast went over it in a previous video.
However I can confidently say the 3H character models don't look like they were ripped out of Genshin Impact
I’m really hyped for Engage as a long time fan. And the reviews make me feel like I’ll enjoy the return to a real gameplay over story type experience.
Even though I loved three houses, replaying that game was tedious because it felt like so much extra stuff I had to do. I strongly dislike the art style of engage but I’m sure will love the game. Along with my criticisms of how much more tropey the series has become, and this entry looks like it’s for sure not getting away from that.
I'm of the opinion you can have good gameplay, story and a nice art style without sacrificing the others, but the most important one for me is gameplay. I like Thracia and Genealogy which have great gameplay and story for example. However personally I find the characters in Engage cute in a way that I like. Which is no surprise to me since I also like a lot of flamboyant outfits I see other people wear in real life. I'm not going to call it amazing or immersive (it's definitely not that) or anything, but it's fun for what it is.
Many of these top commenters are missing the point of the video, he isn't saying Fire emblem didn't always have an anime artstyle because it obviously has. He is referring to fire emblem not always having modern anime tropes (tsunderes, yanderes, dating sim, heterochromia, toothpaste hair designs and so on).
"modern" is relative. Saying, "FE is now modern anime," doesn't work because FE games have always been based on the anime of their time. Also, all those things were present in older games.