ASD+NT Couples resources: --- Living with ASD - eBook and Audio Instruction for Neurodiverse Couples: www.livingwithaspergerspartner.com/ --- One-on-One Skype Counseling for Struggling Individuals & Couples Affected by ASD: www.adultaspergerschat.com/2019/07/skype-counseling-for-struggling-couples.html --- Group for ASD Men Struggling in Their Relationship with an NT Spouse: www.adultaspergerschat.com/2020/11/group-for-asd-men-struggling-in-their.html --- Group for Neurotypical Women Struggling in Their Relationship with an ASD Spouse: www.adultaspergerschat.com/2020/11/group-for-nt-women-struggling-in-their.html --- Online Group Therapy for Neurodiverse Couples Affected by Autism Spectrum Disorder: www.adultaspergerschat.com/2020/10/mark-hutten-m.html --- Recovery from Cassandra Syndrome - Counseling for Neurotypical Spouses: www.cassandrasyndromerecovery.com/2021/08/recovery-from-emotional-deprivation-for.html --- ASD Men’s MasterClass: www.asdmasterclass.com/2022/02/asd-mens-masterclass.html Parenting resources: --- Preventing Meltdowns and Tantrums in Children with Autism Spectrum Disorder: www.autism-meltdowns.com/ --- Discipline for Defiant Teens on the Autism Spectrum: www.myaspergersteen.com/ --- Launching Adult Children with ASD Level 1: How to Promote Self-Reliance: www.launchingadultchildren.com/ --- Teaching Social Skills and Emotion Management to Kids on the Spectrum: www.social-skills-emotion-management.com/ --- Unraveling The Mystery Behind Asperger's and High-Functioning Autism: aspergers-mystery.blogspot.com/ --- Parenting Children and Teens with High-Functioning Autism: www.high-functioningautism.com/ --- Parenting System that Reduces Problematic Behavior in Children and Teens with ASD Level 1: www.myaspergerschild.com/2019/07/parenting-system-that-reduces.html
This defines the reality of issues in my marriage. These insights (your videos) have literally altered my perceptions of my spouse in a way that saved my sanity. Coming across them was very literally an answer to my prayer.
just bear in mind every abuser has their reasons. its not a reason for you to go without respect, sensitivity, safety, love etc.. its not personal, its not a reason to lose confidence but choosing less than you deserve will damage your confidence way more than anyone elses treatment of you, its YOUR CHOICE to harm yourself by putting up with it. neglect doesnt have to be intentional to be abuse
@@CHRISTSPIRACY.comJESUSwasVegan thank you for your input, as I do understand your meaning. Over 20 years ago I left an abusive man/marriage, wherein I experienced not only heavy emotional abuse but in earlier years physical (he being arrested curbed the physical). In the latter 7 years of the 17 year union I received counseling and experienced much emotional growth and healing which accounts not only for why I was strong enough to leave that man but also for why following I was able to accept love from someone who genuinely desires to love me. My frustrations/challenges in my current marriage do not stem from abuse. (Perhaps there are those who do experience abuse, but thankfully that is not my perception of my current situation). Instead, for me it has been about learning to understand how he experiences/sees/interprets differently than me. As I understand where he is coming from, and his limitations I then shift how I perceive his actions and reactions. (Like how disturbed he is over sudden or suggested change of plans or established routines, something that used to really baffle me) The shift in how I receive and interpret him, his actions,reactions, and sometimes downright "weird" behavior, takes me from a position if frustration to a place of acceptance, and understanding of what is. I suppose the fact he and I have a child together that is low functioning autistic also helps me be more understanding ("aha" moments?) of my spouse, as my expectations of my child have, naturally, altered greatly from what I had for my two older children who are high functioning neurotypical people. I've found these videos so very helpful because through them I've been able sto shift how I interpret my spouse and that shift allows me to have more peace because of acceptance what is, as opposed to fighting against it. This doesn't mean I don't work with my spouse where I can (I share many of these video with him, and i speak about what I believe beneficial) but I also find peace in accepting our reality is not going to be what I might consider ideal, and that I'm not alone in this experience.
@@gdhhayes2129 im really happy youre keeping a level head and able to get something out of this situation. I have similar experience of abuse and i know how strong you have to be to survive. Well done ❤️
WOW Mark..this helped me a lot. I've read books regarding Aspergers husband. Listening to this video and reading the comments is helping a great deal. My hus and I have been married for almost 40 years...don't ask me how it lasted that long. However, he is a decent guy. I use to think he was a Narcissist. Everything was about him. I told him years ago that he has no heart. We separated about 6 yrs ago..stayed separated for about 3yrs. We decided to get back together. I've been on the verge of leaving him about 5x since we've been back together. Years ago, a counselor told me my hus has ADD..she never met him. I didn't believe her..maybe I was in denial. However, she was definitely on to something. I recently started doing a bit of research. I came to the conclusion he may have ADD. But after further research, sounds more like Aspergers. He's emotionally unavailable. As long as his World is undisturbed, all is well. He can't handle it when I bring up how I feel. I now understand why. His thought process may be, what do you want me to do about it. I like when you use the light bulb analogy..that's how my hus feels. He seems like he is depressed a lot of the times. I ask him was he depressed, he stated he's been depressed all is life. I ask him about seeking help. He stated, I'm 61 yrs old there's no need. We do have dinner on nights he's not scheduled to work. We enjoy each other's company. As long as I don't bring up certain issues, all is well with him. I feel more like his roommate than his wife and in that regard, I could not ask for a better roommate. Thanks to all who took the time to read my lengthy comment. I want to hang in there with him, but I want a husband, not a roommate. I do enjoy his company most of the time. One of the reasons I decided to hang in there with him is he's a pretty much laid-back guy. He's not controlling and doesn't mind when I spend time away from the house. Sending much love to you all 💕
Thanks for sharing. I'm 31 years married - and I, too, don't know how/ why I'm still married. I recently started researching autism and I think it fits my husband. For years, I've viewed our relationship as business partners -I guess that's more involved than roommates 🙄
He isnt a narcissistic man indeed. He is Not controlling. Very good. And He has a heart. For Sure. Do you know the Song: If He knew what she wants .... He would give it to her (very concrete informations may bring him light bulb moments) as far he is able to give it (task orientated - not Emotion focused) We are together since 33 years, 2 Times I seperated myself because I wanted to her my relationship needs met: deeper communication, understanding & connection. I desired a soulmate level. And we became soulmates. On an deeper Level than verbal communication. When He hold my without speaking we both feel connecting our molecules. I couldnt describe it in a better way. He didnt want anybody else. He was okay alone + I was still Welcome. He wrote me: "Your place in my soul will remain free for you Always" - He May verbally Express it or not. He wants YOU. Because you are Special to him. Not any Woman is able to make him feel comfortable and safe around her and can handle and understand him as you do (as far as possible) and He knows that 😌
@space1456 Wow!!! What a great post - On Point 💯 He does feel very comfortable around me. And I with him as well. When we separated, he saw someone for a short while. He said she wanted a relationship, but he didn't. He wanted us back together. Close to 40 yrs married. A force higher than us knows what's best for us both. I agree, he does have a heart. If I ask for the moon, he would give it to me if he could. 💕
as an autistic woman, i can say your descritption is accurate, i have high anxiety and realised people are very scary, i feel its hard work ,i used to google evrything a partner say or do , and i still get things wrong, trying to understand them is nerve wrecking and draining, .you end up being called functional and self absorbed. they have so much expectations, and i thrive in solitude , i lost my identity when in relationship..., three years now no relations and i feel finally happy, i am myself again, relations are so demanding , truth be said i was diagnosed cpl years ago,wish i knew earlier and saved my self the miserable failures..you are truly a life saver to autistic ppl who are trapped in marriages ..
These videos have really helped me alter my expectations of my partner and the relationship. I do not expect my relationship to look the same as my friends and familys relationships and I'm at peace with that. If I didn't learn all that I have about ASD I can see how the relationship would be suffering and I would be struggling, but after over a year of living together now (2 years dating) we are still happy and going strong, and alot of that is down to your video's mark, thankyou.
@Clare.. The same with me. Learning my hus may have Aspergers has saved me a lot of pain and heartaches. When we use to argue, he would tell me something was wrong with me and I was beginning to believe it. It was pretty bad. I found myself arguing literally about every 3 days. It was due to lack of affection he was showing me. I was starving for affection. I felt so unloved. Having an affair was not an option but I sure thought about it to keep my sanity. However, I understand that is not the answer. The arguments have calmed down a lot. I have been working on my inner self and have become more understanding when it comes to him. I'm sure his World is a bit more peaceful as well without the arguments. We still have disagreements, and I get my point across..but I had to stop hurting him because I'm the one that decided to stay. We get along better. But I do feel more like his roommate..which I could not ask for a better roommate 💕
This was so far the best video explaining what the situation is and how an asd person's mind looks from the inside. I believe you are pure in your intentions of helping us otherwise you wouldn't have come up with such helpful material. Thank you
Thank you for this great video! At 1:30, where you say that “...with mind-blindness, her opinion is invalid...” If I could add my personal perspective, it feels more like I’m wanting to compare each of our flow charts, and the NT person does an interpretive dance instead. It’s not that that doesn’t matter, but it can feel like trying to exchange currency between US dollars & poems. Your ‘poems’ are very important because they’re how you feel; it just so happens that I have no idea how to value them.
I have read and listened to everything available, and this the best info,, because it's not just about the ASD persons view, which is why it HELPS the ASD spouse so much. He needs to be taught about the NT brain as much as vise versa. I'm emotionally exhausted, I know all the info, hut he knows nothing yet. I'm afraid to hope......but this gives me a glimmer of hope.
I've been binge watching your videos since yesterday. As a NT woman with a HFA man, it makes so much sense. I had severely underestimated how his autism impacted him and how we express our feelings/problems/beliefs. How do you communicate your feelings without coming across as critical/negative? How do you get them to challenge their own beliefs and consider others more?
Im autistic and my mind blindless is usually because of passive aggressiveness from the other party. I speak directly and theyre looking for hidden meaning because thats how they communicate. Lying to placate and Im supposed to figure out theyre actually pouting. Exhausting
Yup, I have no emotional empathy. Emotional empathy makes no sense to me. I have autistic spectrum disorder with moderate intellectual disability. The only way to know where are coming from is to ask, and they don't like it when I ask. I have no abstract ability and can't do math. I hate it. I want to be better with functioning with people. Like good change not bad change. Change is a lot of unpleasant work.
A lot of aspies also have ADHD. And ironically enough it's those who have mild doses of it who 'appear' the most narcissistic. An aspie without ADHD will likely learn over time to mimic NT behaviour although they may not understand why. An aspie with severe ADHD are too scatter brained to even come across as narcissistic. Its the ones who have 'just enough' ADHD who gets labelled as narcissistic the most. They forget to apply what they observe in NT interactions at times, and engage in impulsive behaviour, which may look intentional on the surface. Also ADHD makes you crave novelty, which is a trait also seen in narcissists. A 'pure' aspie will be comfortable with the limited range of hobbies and interests they engage in on a daily basis.
I am just now learning all this aspie stuff, but I know my husband is not a Narcissist, they have bad intentions, he doesn’t. I’ll look into the ADHD connection, thanks!
I feel so bad I think my ex has Autism. I have Auditory Processing Disorder. It's such a mess and he always feels bad and I feel bad. I get overly emotional and he thinks it's so stupid. loL! Then I push him away and he apologizes. Ugh. So glad I stumbled upon your video. In his head he thinks everything is fine and we are good and doing well to but I see it as negative a lot of the times. I lost my train of thought not sure where I was going with this.....
I have/had a friend who I suspect to be on the spectrum. My attempt to get him to see his life and experiences in the context of autism has not been well-received. He’s accused me of trying to change him and that to me feels like gaslighting. Even if unintentional, his perspective is always right and hence all his actions, regardless of how detrimental to him and others, are justifiable. Even if he is not strictly narcissistic, there is no space for me to exist in his world other than to go along with his “psychosis” without challenge.
This is, unfortunately, my ex and the situation I just lived through. It's incredibly hard and devaluing when everything was perceived as an 'attack'. One can live without much praise or emotional support (I am fairly comfortable in my own) but when you can't even have a conversation without it being nitpicked and considered 'antagonistic' or a 'violation' simply because of a difference of opinion ... no thank you and I wish you well
Narcissism and autism can cross over . I had an ex who had both and he was a horrible person. I am autistic and autistic men drive me nuts and I never want to date another man again. They prefer their computers, weed or music over you as long as they still get to have sex.
> They prefer their over you Here's a perspective taking exercise I just made up: ask yourself what it is about interacting with people you like, and which interactions you dislike. I imagine you get the good vs. bad parts in about 80/20 proportions, maybe 90/10. Imagine it was the other way around. How much would you enjoy interacting with people then? What could people do to make it more enjoyable for you to interact with them? If your partners' interactions have all been plagued by a low-grade anxiety, maybe they'll enjoy interacting with you more if you help them calm the anxiety. How often do you talk to boyfriends about both of y'all's feelings without anyone complaining about things that need to be changed? More specifically, how much time do you spend listening to him? Does he enjoy that?
It is interesting you say you are autistic and had this experience. I was wondering what relationships between two autistic people would be like. I am a neurotypical man with an autistic woman and I feel like it's a very different situation than these videos that focus on neurotypical women and autistic men.
@LillyPilly I am very sorry for what you had to endure Lilly, you are a human being with feelings and needs and you don't deserve someone who uses like a toy. I hope you could reach out for actual help to work through all the damage that has been done to you. I can't speak for someone else but me, but I can tell you there is good people out there NT or not. In my case I was in a very long term relationship with a NT woman which was lovely to me, she loved and cared so much and so did I, but the amount of misunderstandings between each other grew up no matter how much effort I put in, to the point that intimacy was dead, and we spent 5 years without having sex and barely sharing the same bed. I'm still grateful that she decided to leave me because I loved her so much that this possibility was out of the question for me and this would only mean more hurt for both of us. This NT/ ND communication gap was too much for two loving people who did their best, so it's no wonder why you feel this way with selfish, uncaring men. To me sex meant bonding, feeling valued and connected with my significant other, no matter how much I liked my special interest, there was no competition, but it had to be loving passionate sex, otherwise it is just glorified masturbation. I wish you the best.
I highly doubt you have a large enough sample size to make an accurate generalizing statement. Not to knock your personal experiences. I'm just saying that the "ocean" is vast. I wish you luck.
Hey Mark, I am diagnosed as a highly intelligent + I was considered as a highly sensitive person by the way (HSP) with strongly empathic traits as well (not official diagnose but a test about typical HSP- and empathic traits in great details) and I consider my partner as a highly intelligent + highly functional Autist, NOT narcissist. There is a HUUUGE difference. I know both kinds of personalities in a deep way from personal experience (Family members, former romantic partner), research and education + Real Life experience in Work Life. Unfortunately even psychologists Sometimes made the wrong conclusion. They said my partner for 33 years has NARCISSISTIC DEFENSES . I intuitively and logically knew THIS IS WRONG. They confused and mislabeled. The simplest difference is: A narcissistic person enjoyes to bring an emotional empathic partner / sibling / child DOWN and gets fuel from it. It makes him feel good to devalue and make someone a "Bad object" to feel unhappy, desperate, worthless and lost. He provokes such emotional reactions. Its a huge amount of FOOD/or fuel for him to do so. Negativ fuel is even more potential than positive (getting compliments etc.). An autistic person doesnt operate that was. He/she never feels good about hearing that his/her partner/parent/sibling/child etc. feels upset / unhappy/desperate because of his behaviour. This doesn't make him feel Higher. Oh no. He gets feelings of Not good enough, inadequatcy, that he failed when He she shuts or melts down. He May feel critisized - a narcissistic person consider him/herself critisized easily too because their mental age is a child - but the reaction, the Intention why this behaviour and the conviction of the Heart & the whole Person is different to the core. An autist never wants and enjoyes to hurt & upset Someone in His Life. A narcissistic individual knows she/ he goes wrong to get a favourable Outcome. They are highly manipulative. My autistic husbund is the opposite. He is authentic and absolutely straight until social inadequacy. No White lies, no bad lies anyway. He absolutely cannot manipulate. He is not deceptive while a narcissistic man/woman like and use deception as survival straregy And for their fun. I Love my partner for his sincere nature and for sooo much more. Masking in autism is not deception. Its bringing efforts to fit in and fullfill the expectations of the mother, father, teachers, school in general, work place. (He prefers a solo office and a special area to work on by his own. Highly specialized in his corner. As a child his granny saved him from the traumatizing fast seperation and overwhelming group situation in the kindergarden. He was happier to arrange flowers in the shop of his auntie. She prevented a lot of common damage to autistic kids) My partner is absolutely willing to bring efforts for our childrens, for ja wellbeing, my health in a das to das basis. Constantly. A NARCISSISTIC man/Woman doesnt care. They Couldnt care lese! And our Birthdays and Days of marriage. He doesnt forget or miss a Date or appointment. A narcissistic man give a damn to an appointment with His Partner and tends to ruin Birthdays by purpose. My husband is really down when I say he has hurt me or her thinks He didnt met my expectations or doesnt know what more to say to reduce my pain and sadness. And He becomes really anxious when he didn't recognized His voice sounded aggressive and I reacting emotionally now. He is every time surprised and thinks I am start with being upset Not him, without a reason. He thinks the conflict started with my emotion (for him an Attack) but IT was a reaction to his aggressive or anoid voice or ignorance/ emotional unavailability in the Moment I need his affection & understanding the most. - I am Not Always able to autoregulate my pain (as He is able to every time. A great autistic ability by the way in the autonomous area) From time to time He is even able to give me compassion and deeper understanding.... and He is in such Moments great and surprisingly accurate, but these Moments are rare. He connects with me in this deep Level when IT IS absolutely necessary but in emergency Situations only. Because it Costs him a huge amount of Energy. His mental battery is Low after this emotional co-regulation for the Rest of the day and He must disconnect and reload His Energies. This leads to the Main difference between autism and narcissism. A narcissistic programming is Not capable of Autoregulation. IT IS very dependent and needy and regulates emotionally through tourmanting the human closest to them. A autistic programming is a master of Selfregulation , an autonomouse Island, and has Low social and emotional needs and IS therefore Not difficult to Care for. My husband is Happy with his Work, Garden, Hyper Focus Games to relax , His routines, and Tasks He tends to do perfectly and responsibly. He is very ethic and Likes to Help out and save or protect Others. His Abstract intelligence and fast Reading, Obsession with Numbers and Letters, word riddles is cute and very useful. Even the exact Numbers of the flowers and their colors for my Birthday have a meaning. I really Love that. Kind regards to all autistic men / women and their Partners. As an empath I am different from him in so e ways (was of dealing with my emotions and with conflict, feeling deeply and deep and complex thinker, He needs it more simple) but maybe I am also Not neurotypical. We both can have a hyperfocus and Dive into this for hours , excluding the world around and other tasks. I do that more thank him indeed. And we let each other space for this. I feel thankful and really appreciate him for Letting me do these deep dives, Sometimes I miss to share with him what treasures I found on a deep dive that I Bring to the surface. Would Love to speak with him about it in great details. I TRIED. But IT ends up killing my Joy and excitement. Whats a pitty. So its better to keep IT for myself. Hope I am Welcome to share IT with other neurodiverse people in the spectrum. Kind regards to you all
I just wanted to stop in here and say thank you for this comment. You seem like a really caring and understanding partner. I'm glad that you have been able to learn all these things and apply them to your relationship. Thanks for sharing your ideas about the difference between narcissism and ASD. I appreciate the way you described these. I once had a partner who I don't believe understood this difference, and I think it's a very important to notice. That partner of mine didn't have this particular kind of insight to be able to articulate the things that you're mentioning here, and it ended. So I'm happy to see there are other people out there who have gained the necessary perspective to make things work. Congratulations! Finally, your comments about how draining it can be to engage in very very deep emotional co-regulation... I have felt this in my own life. Just like your husband, if I spend 2 hours really deeply helping someone with emotional issues, "playing therapist" in a very deep and intentional (and almost always very productive) way... It will absolutely cost me all my energy for the rest of the day. I always imagined this was some failing on my part. That I needed space after those kinds of conversations. It always made me feel selfish. So thank you for sharing your experience. Now I know it isn't just me. That makes it a lot easier to deal with. Thanks for sharing your experiences. They helped this stranger today.
Beautiful comment, thank you. I have expressed to therapists too that my husband is not narcissistic-I too grew up with this kind of person as a child and I have always said that the difference is my husband never does these things or acts the way he does to intentionally hurt. If you’re in therapy alone and describe the persons’s actions though-it does sound abusive. And sometimes it IS abusive, autism or not. But it’s not intentional, at least not from my guy.
This is valuable. I am just learning I’m on the spectrum. I have disliked the word narcissist and it’s overuse for a while and couldn’t pinpoint why. Now I know why.
My Aspie husband has narc and sociopathic traits ( all personality disorders). Also extremely oppositional. He calls the cops on me when he feels like he’s losing control. It’s harassment. He’s also very unstable. I’m trying to separate from him as our relationship is toxic to mine and our children’s health and well being. I have no support or anywhere to go.
I am in same position I am with a man who when any little thing happens threatens to divorce me, call the cops, or sue me! Then he is loving a few hours later. Its a cycle and u get sick. He is aspie but he is also manipulative and can read me and asks me when I pull away whats wrong. I suppose u can be narc and aspie God knows I wish you all the best and peace❤️
@@boutiquelove5391 Thank you! 💗 I’m so sorry you deal with the same problem. I am trying to separate from him but I have no support and two young boys. I feel trapped. Do you have children?
Boutique, I heard you can't have narcissistic and sociopathic with autism. Those behaviours are caused by autism which is developmental disorder where as psychopathic and narcissist is personality disorder not developmental. Sorry for my writing, my grammar is very poor as I have globular impairments.
Thanks for your reply I am happier to think he is autistic with fluctuating ability to be emotional than he is narcissistic Its so painful as i would not want to be alone
Haven't watched the video yet so forgive me, I just wanted to write a mini essay of the title . I do agree that narcissism and autism may portray themselves similarly. I believe narcissists have realized this as well. I believe narcissists mimic the parts of autism that are appreciated by others: their pure joy, their silliness, their joy, their light. The autists achilles heal, however, is that the same amount of good they exude is the same amount they're willing to go if someone crosses them or is mean to them or is just a bad person. The defense is more important than looking crazy in public. (Screaming, crying etc). Narcissists love this because they can easily puppet the autist to react in any which way they want. It's harder for a narcissist to do this to a neurotypical because neither would understand the other fully because each chooses to do different things with the light and darkness. Neurotypicals have a healthy light and darkness, autists have extreme light and extreme darkness. Narccisits have extreme light and extreme darkness as well but they somehow use their light for darkness, for selfishness, for manipulation. Narccisits use light to bring glory to themselves, autistic people use their light for joy. Autists and narcissist butt heads so much because they manipulate with their darkness, autists defend them selves and others with their darkness. Neurotypicals aren't aware of what's happening because people project their intentions onto other. Why would anyone manipulate the truth? Why would anyone be willing to make themselves look crazy for the truth? Autistic and narccisits are able to recognize each other but they don't agree with how they're conducting their lights. Autist are good people who are able to see the narcissisrts true character. The reason they care more about the truth than their appearance is because they're trying to warn people as well as they're trying to stick up for themselves. It's frustrating trying to tell the truth but getting too emotionally and morally involved and having the mass manipulated and against the wrong person. Everyone is being used by the narc but only the autistic truly understand because we're opposite sides on the same coin. Summary ( They know autistic people don't know how to handle the negativity publicly but a narcissist does. They steel the elements of autism that are good and use it to mask their narcissism, trigger the autist which results in everyone either hating the autist or believe that the autist is truly the narcissist because they know they autistic person can't stop their reaction ): they then keep the only positive of narcissism (positive the them but not others; manipulation. Selfishness. Using the situation they orchestrate to their advantage because they have positioned themselves to have power of the social group by gaining have control, switched the narrative, tear down the competition and take there place. ) Didnt proof read or organize so my bad
Recent studies have shown mind-blindness in ASD has been shown to be mind-blindness towards NT brains, but not (or less so) towards ND brains. Then there's the double empathy problem: NT people have some "mind-blindness" towards ASD people (see e.g. Autism 2018 Aug;22(6):740-750). Also importantly, sensory sensitivity is not just anxiety. It has be shown that many ASD people have actually different peripheral nervous systems than NT people: the sensitivity is at the physical nerves level (Neuroscience. 2020 Oct 1; 445: 120-129). It can definitely be a vicious cycle with anxiety, as it's not fun to be overstimulated to the point of pain by environments that other people think are normal. Yes, it's a two-way street, but hopefully that information can help NT people understand.
Sadly, I have to look at our future and if I pass away b4 him. I feel I have to have everything in place for my older daughter in case. Like you say Mark, the mind- blindness and execution function. Still love him greatly tho.
Almost 62 here and autistic and LGBT. I have never thought I could meet the emotional needs of some neurotypical people, especially traditional men. But with people who are in one of my overlapping groups, the friendship comes easier. If I'm looking at someone immersed in a special interest or trapped in a shutdown, I don't take it personally, because I do those things. I am thinking about getting into a relationship again and it's got to be another ND or LGBT person. I don't have any energy left for masking at home. Everyone cannot be everything to every person, but we all deserve to love and be loved. I also think in some cases, the autistic is just the "identified patient." Both parties may be trying to meet needs from each other that mature, healed people can supply to themselves. Once you reach my age, you are better off with a high degree of self-sufficiency no matter who you are. Winding up alone is always a possibility.
6:28 I know she’s not dumb and I do care if I could just know if I get everything organized and caught up it would benefit both of us. What do we do if we might have a mental problem.
I think we autists are suitable with NT people who want unconventional relationships. Then all parts are thinking outside the box, which is incredibly helpful. Our relationships (be it friendships or whatever you wanna call them) will never look as conventional NT ones.
Thank you, Mark, as always! One question: How does oppositional defiance manifests in someone on the spectrum? Thank you in advance for addressing this topic later.😉
As mentioned in the video, the person with autism has a lot of unpredictability in his life. He feels like he has very little control over external circumstances. Thus, Oppositional behavior is a way to get some semblance of control in one’s life. It too is an Anxiety reduction method.
@@markhutten That's on point.. I have ASD (probably on the aspergers side of it) and if I don't understand a reaction, I might feel threatened and be very tempted to lash back, so I can feel a bit of control over the situation that is going on, like in an argument or when he says I should have done this or that for this or that reason instead of doing what I had done. It feels like I have to justify myself so he understand that I didn't mean to upset him, cause idk why he is upset! It's confusing and can cause a lot of anxiety in the relationship. But communication and hearing what the other truly has to say helps me calm this feeling and I feel like I can understand what he meant afterwards, even if it don't make sense to me ^^ So I can relate to him and give him an appropriate response in return.. It's kind of like trying to sail a boat, with some commands that are irresponsive (being in an argument or situation like this feels like this to me)
I think if someone truly has the ability to empathise, I don't think they would pretend they couldn't empathise in order to "get their way". I think if someone truly has a hard time understanding someone else's experience, it's going to be apparent in the difficulty they have to really understand your perspective. My problem is I have autism spectrum/ADHD/PTSD and so does my spouse. It's been a lonely and trying 8 years!!!! So exhausted. Praying for a therapist who can really help with this. I have been studying narcissism for years 🙄 but yet to file for a divorce. Separated 2 1/2 years. He commonly says, "Even if we don't work out..." Like, really? After all this time... Hmmmm. 🎪
@@markhutten We are not as bad as the males as we spend hours mimicking and trying to understand the world. Many of us become actors and study psychology either formally or informally. Females are hard wired to be more social than males and when men are ready to pair off they are generally more happy to isolate. Aspie men do this even more so . The majority of my aspie female friends have been social or have wanted to ad only one was happy to be alone.
I do the false agreement, short circuiting. I agree just to not have to disagree, but I don’t agree. My husband used to think that I thought he was dumb. He has thought of my working memory deficit as a lack of care. There are a lot of points that are consistent with our relationship.
@@lillypilly6440 Women with ASD can be every bit as hurtful and damaging to their partner as men with ASD, in a more insidious way because the symptoms are somewhat concealed at first. I think just as with NTs, everyone is different, and good or bad according to themselves. Speaking as someone who was abused, and left with my life in utter tatters by my partner with diagnosed ASD, I can assure you women can be just 'as bad'.
Mark, Doesn't the mind-blindness go both way? It feels like to me that by its vary nature it has to be to at least some extent symmetrical. ASD can't easily understand non-ASD, due to thinking and understanding differently, then the non-ASD have the same issue. A lot is made of ASD deficiencies regarding interacting with non-ASD, and I realize we are in a non-ASD world, so this is the default, but it is frustrating.
This needs emphasising again and again.Nt's should not be regarded as the default just because they are the majority.That is just might makes right and sheer naked bullying.
@@51elephantchang _This needs emphasising again and again.Nt's should not be regarded as the default just because they are the majority_ Yes, they should. If you go to China, do you expect everyone to speak English to you? No, that would be stupidly inefficient. It is up to neurodivergents to do the bulk of the heavy lifting. If neurodivergents are 4% of the population, say, then it means that 24 out of every 25 people they meet operate in a neurotypical way. They get LOTS of opportunities to practice and can be relatively sure that anyone they meet will behave in a predictable manner. On the flipside, the average NT is going to meet ONE neurodivergent person out of every 25 people he meets, so he has far less opportunity to learn and must reasonably operate under the assumption that the next person he meets is NT. Is that fair? No. But, guess what. Life's not fair. PS. This doesn't even begin to get into the issue of almost EVERYONE not knowing about neurodivergence even existing in the first place.
Not all of us on the spectrum are as mind blind as this generalization claims. I wish your videos gave examples acknowledging it's a spectrum, not just making a caricature of Aspergers/ HFA.
@@Alphacentauri819 typically asking questions helps inform if what you're seeing matches reality, or, misses the context. It's not all that much different from getting a good idea of what you look like to other people if you've never seen your own reflection. For example, if I see someone wandering around looking like they lost something, I could ask them if they lost something. Do this type of thing enough and odds are you'll get good at guessing what's going on with other people, even if you weren't naturally wired to pick up on it (especially because neurotypical theory of mind is essentially just educated guesses about what someone is thinking and feeling anyways). So, my question to you is, were you trying to undermine my comment, or, did you legitimately want to know? I answered as if the latter was true.
@@aries4901 Perhaps random internet person. But more likely you aren't my doctor and have no idea what you're talking about. I actually AM on the spectrum per my diagnosis as a child. And, considering Asperger's/ HFA is a lifelong condition, it's not going away just because there's a mild end of the spectrum and with behavioral therapy/ education and training you most certainly can be less impaired.
This channel is mostly for people (NT/ASD spouses) who have problems in NT/ASD marriage and often even dont know why. My ex was undiagnosed and Unfortunately all his (often really cold/cruel) behaviours looked like narcisstic/sociopathic. Long after breakup I discovered it was ASD (my therapist „diagnosed it”hearing about all behaviours and symptoms). So you have to understand that somebody who doesnt have such big problems would not search for this kind of video/advices= those are relevant for „hard” cases otherwise we would not seek answers and explanations for totally odd, irrational behaviours, reactions, and in my case …emotional abuse
I recognise all of your 4 culprits in myself especially the anxiety which is probably the result of the other 3.I don't think most nt's can ever relate however empathetic they imagine themselves to be to existing in a state of more or less perpetual anxiety..
Thank you Peter. My recent ex bf marks all the boxes just mentioned. Relationship ended due to all of the above and me snapping and going ballistic many times the last couple months. I supported us both financially and struggled while it looked to me as if he didn’t give 2 hoots about me. On the other hand he could be super caring and sweet. I felt like he was being manipulative.
@@shaynalee Sorry to hear about your relationship ending.I'll just leave you with one thought... if as you say he is mind blind how can he also be manipulative?
@@51elephantchang my Aspie husband comes off as manipulative as well. Idk if it’s true manipulation but this is a wide spectrum disorder with no two aspies alike.
@@51elephantchang that’s the thing that made me crazy. Sometimes he didn’t seem as mind blind and seemed like a regular person then on a dime didn’t get it. Plus I wasn’t always aware the mind blindness was going on and what it looked like. The inconsistency confused and tortured me. I felt vulnerable as I was the only income earner. And of course I have my own issues from my childhood. He is undiagnosed also. He’s getting tested in 2 weeks and that was only due to my insistence which we also fought about since I’m “not a doctor” He relied on his doctors to tell him what’s up with himself and was going from one med to the next. He’s 30.
@@shaynalee Well Shayna we do become somewhat skilled at masking in order to survive in your world.However it is utterly exhausting and inevitably the mask has to slip.Then follows the meltdown/withdrawl period and we recharge just to go thru the cycle again.It all feels like a shabby pointless comprimise sometimes but what else is to be done?We didn't ask to be born.Anyway good luck and sorry for droning on.
Dear Alphabet, please spin off your research into a software producing education company, so that LaMDa can be used to teach curricula around the world - "human teachers" would take the role of observers, sociologists, legal human rights specialists and psychologists.
ASD+NT Couples resources:
--- Living with ASD - eBook and Audio Instruction for Neurodiverse Couples: www.livingwithaspergerspartner.com/
--- One-on-One Skype Counseling for Struggling Individuals & Couples Affected by ASD: www.adultaspergerschat.com/2019/07/skype-counseling-for-struggling-couples.html
--- Group for ASD Men Struggling in Their Relationship with an NT Spouse: www.adultaspergerschat.com/2020/11/group-for-asd-men-struggling-in-their.html
--- Group for Neurotypical Women Struggling in Their Relationship with an ASD Spouse: www.adultaspergerschat.com/2020/11/group-for-nt-women-struggling-in-their.html
--- Online Group Therapy for Neurodiverse Couples Affected by Autism Spectrum Disorder: www.adultaspergerschat.com/2020/10/mark-hutten-m.html
--- Recovery from Cassandra Syndrome - Counseling for Neurotypical Spouses: www.cassandrasyndromerecovery.com/2021/08/recovery-from-emotional-deprivation-for.html
--- ASD Men’s MasterClass: www.asdmasterclass.com/2022/02/asd-mens-masterclass.html
Parenting resources:
--- Preventing Meltdowns and Tantrums in Children with Autism Spectrum Disorder: www.autism-meltdowns.com/
--- Discipline for Defiant Teens on the Autism Spectrum: www.myaspergersteen.com/
--- Launching Adult Children with ASD Level 1: How to Promote Self-Reliance: www.launchingadultchildren.com/
--- Teaching Social Skills and Emotion Management to Kids on the Spectrum: www.social-skills-emotion-management.com/
--- Unraveling The Mystery Behind Asperger's and High-Functioning Autism: aspergers-mystery.blogspot.com/
--- Parenting Children and Teens with High-Functioning Autism: www.high-functioningautism.com/
--- Parenting System that Reduces Problematic Behavior in Children and Teens with ASD Level 1: www.myaspergerschild.com/2019/07/parenting-system-that-reduces.html
This defines the reality of issues in my marriage. These insights (your videos) have literally altered my perceptions of my spouse in a way that saved my sanity. Coming across them was very literally an answer to my prayer.
Excellent!
just bear in mind every abuser has their reasons. its not a reason for you to go without respect, sensitivity, safety, love etc.. its not personal, its not a reason to lose confidence but choosing less than you deserve will damage your confidence way more than anyone elses treatment of you, its YOUR CHOICE to harm yourself by putting up with it. neglect doesnt have to be intentional to be abuse
@@CHRISTSPIRACY.comJESUSwasVegan thank you for your input, as I do understand your meaning. Over 20 years ago I left an abusive man/marriage, wherein I experienced not only heavy emotional abuse but in earlier years physical (he being arrested curbed the physical). In the latter 7 years of the 17 year union I received counseling and experienced much emotional growth and healing which accounts not only for why I was strong enough to leave that man but also for why following I was able to accept love from someone who genuinely desires to love me.
My frustrations/challenges in my current marriage do not stem from abuse. (Perhaps there are those who do experience abuse, but thankfully that is not my perception of my current situation). Instead, for me it has been about learning to understand how he experiences/sees/interprets differently than me. As I understand where he is coming from, and his limitations I then shift how I perceive his actions and reactions. (Like how disturbed he is over sudden or suggested change of plans or established routines, something that used to really baffle me) The shift in how I receive and interpret him, his actions,reactions, and sometimes downright "weird" behavior, takes me from a position if frustration to a place of acceptance, and understanding of what is.
I suppose the fact he and I have a child together that is low functioning autistic also helps me be more understanding ("aha" moments?) of my spouse, as my expectations of my child have, naturally, altered greatly from what I had for my two older children who are high functioning neurotypical people.
I've found these videos so very helpful because through them I've been able sto shift how I interpret my spouse and that shift allows me to have more peace because of acceptance what is, as opposed to fighting against it. This doesn't mean I don't work with my spouse where I can (I share many of these video with him, and i speak about what I believe beneficial) but I also find peace in accepting our reality is not going to be what I might consider ideal, and that I'm not alone in this experience.
@@gdhhayes2129 im really happy youre keeping a level head and able to get something out of this situation. I have similar experience of abuse and i know how strong you have to be to survive. Well done ❤️
@@gdhhayes2129 just remember to love is a verb, not just a feeling
WOW Mark..this helped me a lot. I've read books regarding Aspergers husband. Listening to this video and reading the comments is helping a great deal. My hus and I have been married for almost 40 years...don't ask me how it lasted that long. However, he is a decent guy. I use to think he was a Narcissist. Everything was about him. I told him years ago that he has no heart. We separated about 6 yrs ago..stayed separated for about 3yrs. We decided to get back together. I've been on the verge of leaving him about 5x since we've been back together. Years ago, a counselor told me my hus has ADD..she never met him. I didn't believe her..maybe I was in denial. However, she was definitely on to something. I recently started doing a bit of research. I came to the conclusion he may have ADD. But after further research, sounds more like Aspergers. He's emotionally unavailable. As long as his World is undisturbed, all is well. He can't handle it when I bring up how I feel. I now understand why. His thought process may be, what do you want me to do about it. I like when you use the light bulb analogy..that's how my hus feels. He seems like he is depressed a lot of the times. I ask him was he depressed, he stated he's been depressed all is life. I ask him about seeking help. He stated, I'm 61 yrs old there's no need. We do have dinner on nights he's not scheduled to work. We enjoy each other's company. As long as I don't bring up certain issues, all is well with him. I feel more like his roommate than his wife and in that regard, I could not ask for a better roommate. Thanks to all who took the time to read my lengthy comment. I want to hang in there with him, but I want a husband, not a roommate. I do enjoy his company most of the time. One of the reasons I decided to hang in there with him is he's a pretty much laid-back guy. He's not controlling and doesn't mind when I spend time away from the house. Sending much love to you all 💕
I feel like a roommate, too! Your post helped me, thank you!
@@terrylynndelman You welcome. This is why I don't mind sharing my story with others. Never know who it can help.💕
Thanks for sharing.
I'm 31 years married - and I, too, don't know how/ why I'm still married. I recently started researching autism and I think it fits my husband.
For years, I've viewed our relationship as business partners -I guess that's more involved than roommates 🙄
He isnt a narcissistic man indeed. He is Not controlling. Very good. And He has a heart. For Sure. Do you know the Song: If He knew what she wants .... He would give it to her (very concrete informations may bring him light bulb moments) as far he is able to give it (task orientated - not Emotion focused)
We are together since 33 years, 2 Times I seperated myself because I wanted to her my relationship needs met: deeper communication, understanding & connection. I desired a soulmate level. And we became soulmates. On an deeper Level than verbal communication. When He hold my without speaking we both feel connecting our molecules. I couldnt describe it in a better way.
He didnt want anybody else. He was okay alone + I was still Welcome. He wrote me: "Your place in my soul will remain free for you Always" - He May verbally Express it or not. He wants YOU. Because you are Special to him. Not any Woman is able to make him feel comfortable and safe around her and can handle and understand him as you do (as far as possible) and He knows that 😌
@space1456 Wow!!! What a great post - On Point 💯
He does feel very comfortable around me. And I with him as well.
When we separated, he saw someone for a short while. He said she wanted a relationship, but he didn't. He wanted us back together. Close to 40 yrs married. A force higher than us knows what's best for us both. I agree, he does have a heart. If I ask for the moon, he would give it to me if he could. 💕
as an autistic woman, i can say your descritption is accurate, i have high anxiety and realised people are very scary, i feel its hard work ,i used to google evrything a partner say or do , and i still get things wrong, trying to understand them is nerve wrecking and draining, .you end up being called functional and self absorbed. they have so much expectations, and i thrive in solitude , i lost my identity when in relationship..., three years now no relations and i feel finally happy, i am myself again, relations are so demanding , truth be said i was diagnosed cpl years ago,wish i knew earlier and saved my self the miserable failures..you are truly a life saver to autistic ppl who are trapped in marriages ..
whats cpl
@@hondaissace couple.
Non diagnosed here but I know I exhibit those traits. It's good to see how they can affect a relationship.
Thank you. Finally someone that makes sense. We have been therapy for years on and off- unsuccessfully
Imagine being so expectant and needy of someone that you think they are a sociopath for not delivering. I've met people like this.
You explain it so well. I’ve been with my husband for almost 11 years, and you have pinpointed everything spot on!
These videos have really helped me alter my expectations of my partner and the relationship. I do not expect my relationship to look the same as my friends and familys relationships and I'm at peace with that. If I didn't learn all that I have about ASD I can see how the relationship would be suffering and I would be struggling, but after over a year of living together now (2 years dating) we are still happy and going strong, and alot of that is down to your video's mark, thankyou.
If you’ve had to put this much effort into a 2-year relationship, it’s time to seriously reconsider
@Clare.. The same with me. Learning my hus may have Aspergers has saved me a lot of pain and heartaches. When we use to argue, he would tell me something was wrong with me and I was beginning to believe it. It was pretty bad. I found myself arguing literally about every 3 days. It was due to lack of affection he was showing me. I was starving for affection. I felt so unloved. Having an affair was not an option but I sure thought about it to keep my sanity. However, I understand that is not the answer. The arguments have calmed down a lot. I have been working on my inner self and have become more understanding when it comes to him. I'm sure his World is a bit more peaceful as well without the arguments. We still have disagreements, and I get my point across..but I had to stop hurting him because I'm the one that decided to stay. We get along better. But I do feel more like his roommate..which I could not ask for a better roommate 💕
When you meet another person with the same diagnosis, there will be a number of areas where you clash really hard.
This was so far the best video explaining what the situation is and how an asd person's mind looks from the inside. I believe you are pure in your intentions of helping us otherwise you wouldn't have come up with such helpful material. Thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for this great video!
At 1:30, where you say that “...with mind-blindness, her opinion is invalid...”
If I could add my personal perspective, it feels more like I’m wanting to compare each of our flow charts, and the NT person does an interpretive dance instead. It’s not that that doesn’t matter, but it can feel like trying to exchange currency between US dollars & poems. Your ‘poems’ are very important because they’re how you feel; it just so happens that I have no idea how to value them.
I have read and listened to everything available, and this the best info,, because it's not just about the ASD persons view, which is why it HELPS the ASD spouse so much. He needs to be taught about the NT brain as much as vise versa. I'm emotionally exhausted, I know all the info, hut he knows nothing yet. I'm afraid to hope......but this gives me a glimmer of hope.
I've been binge watching your videos since yesterday. As a NT woman with a HFA man, it makes so much sense. I had severely underestimated how his autism impacted him and how we express our feelings/problems/beliefs.
How do you communicate your feelings without coming across as critical/negative?
How do you get them to challenge their own beliefs and consider others more?
Im autistic and my mind blindless is usually because of passive aggressiveness from the other party. I speak directly and theyre looking for hidden meaning because thats how they communicate. Lying to placate and Im supposed to figure out theyre actually pouting. Exhausting
@@Queen-bd1nz you have written my relationship situation. My divorce on the way. I got anxious attachment issues. She fucked my nervous system.
Your videos are so helpful! Sometimes I laugh out loud at how spot on your descriptions are
I'm so glad!
Yup, I have no emotional empathy. Emotional empathy makes no sense to me. I have autistic spectrum disorder with moderate intellectual disability. The only way to know where are coming from is to ask, and they don't like it when I ask. I have no abstract ability and can't do math. I hate it. I want to be better with functioning with people. Like good change not bad change. Change is a lot of unpleasant work.
A lot of aspies also have ADHD. And ironically enough it's those who have mild doses of it who 'appear' the most narcissistic. An aspie without ADHD will likely learn over time to mimic NT behaviour although they may not understand why. An aspie with severe ADHD are too scatter brained to even come across as narcissistic. Its the ones who have 'just enough' ADHD who gets labelled as narcissistic the most. They forget to apply what they observe in NT interactions at times, and engage in impulsive behaviour, which may look intentional on the surface. Also ADHD makes you crave novelty, which is a trait also seen in narcissists. A 'pure' aspie will be comfortable with the limited range of hobbies and interests they engage in on a daily basis.
Great comment
Yes very good thanks for sharing
I am just now learning all this aspie stuff, but I know my husband is not a Narcissist, they have bad intentions, he doesn’t. I’ll look into the ADHD connection, thanks!
I have autism and ADHD inattentive. I'm pretty sure I've come across as a narc to some without even realizing it.
I feel so bad I think my ex has Autism. I have Auditory Processing Disorder. It's such a mess and he always feels bad and I feel bad. I get overly emotional and he thinks it's so stupid. loL! Then I push him away and he apologizes. Ugh. So glad I stumbled upon your video. In his head he thinks everything is fine and we are good and doing well to but I see it as negative a lot of the times. I lost my train of thought not sure where I was going with this.....
I have/had a friend who I suspect to be on the spectrum. My attempt to get him to see his life and experiences in the context of autism has not been well-received. He’s accused me of trying to change him and that to me feels like gaslighting. Even if unintentional, his perspective is always right and hence all his actions, regardless of how detrimental to him and others, are justifiable. Even if he is not strictly narcissistic, there is no space for me to exist in his world other than to go along with his “psychosis” without challenge.
Why do you want to challenge him?
I totally understand!!!!
@@foljs5858 because the behavior is not acceptable when hurting others....in any form or fashion....
See he sounds similar to a Narcissist.
This is, unfortunately, my ex and the situation I just lived through. It's incredibly hard and devaluing when everything was perceived as an 'attack'. One can live without much praise or emotional support (I am fairly comfortable in my own) but when you can't even have a conversation without it being nitpicked and considered 'antagonistic' or a 'violation' simply because of a difference of opinion ... no thank you and I wish you well
This was VERY helpful. I will accept and adjust my expectations.
Narcissism and autism can cross over . I had an ex who had both and he was a horrible person. I am autistic and autistic men drive me nuts and I never want to date another man again. They prefer their computers, weed or music over you as long as they still get to have sex.
thats every man lol
> They prefer their over you
Here's a perspective taking exercise I just made up: ask yourself what it is about interacting with people you like, and which interactions you dislike. I imagine you get the good vs. bad parts in about 80/20 proportions, maybe 90/10. Imagine it was the other way around. How much would you enjoy interacting with people then? What could people do to make it more enjoyable for you to interact with them?
If your partners' interactions have all been plagued by a low-grade anxiety, maybe they'll enjoy interacting with you more if you help them calm the anxiety.
How often do you talk to boyfriends about both of y'all's feelings without anyone complaining about things that need to be changed? More specifically, how much time do you spend listening to him? Does he enjoy that?
It is interesting you say you are autistic and had this experience. I was wondering what relationships between two autistic people would be like. I am a neurotypical man with an autistic woman and I feel like it's a very different situation than these videos that focus on neurotypical women and autistic men.
@LillyPilly I am very sorry for what you had to endure Lilly, you are a human being with feelings and needs and you don't deserve someone who uses like a toy. I hope you could reach out for actual help to work through all the damage that has been done to you. I can't speak for someone else but me, but I can tell you there is good people out there NT or not. In my case I was in a very long term relationship with a NT woman which was lovely to me, she loved and cared so much and so did I, but the amount of misunderstandings between each other grew up no matter how much effort I put in, to the point that intimacy was dead, and we spent 5 years without having sex and barely sharing the same bed. I'm still grateful that she decided to leave me because I loved her so much that this possibility was out of the question for me and this would only mean more hurt for both of us. This NT/ ND communication gap was too much for two loving people who did their best, so it's no wonder why you feel this way with selfish, uncaring men. To me sex meant bonding, feeling valued and connected with my significant other, no matter how much I liked my special interest, there was no competition, but it had to be loving passionate sex, otherwise it is just glorified masturbation. I wish you the best.
I highly doubt you have a large enough sample size to make an accurate generalizing statement.
Not to knock your personal experiences. I'm just saying that the "ocean" is vast. I wish you luck.
Hey Mark, I am diagnosed as a highly intelligent + I was considered as a highly sensitive person by the way (HSP) with strongly empathic traits as well (not official diagnose but a test about typical HSP- and empathic traits in great details) and I consider my partner as a highly intelligent + highly functional Autist, NOT narcissist. There is a HUUUGE difference. I know both kinds of personalities in a deep way from personal experience (Family members, former romantic partner), research and education + Real Life experience in Work Life.
Unfortunately even psychologists Sometimes made the wrong conclusion. They said my partner for 33 years has NARCISSISTIC DEFENSES .
I intuitively and logically knew THIS IS WRONG. They confused and mislabeled.
The simplest difference is: A narcissistic person enjoyes to bring an emotional empathic partner / sibling / child DOWN and gets fuel from it. It makes him feel good to devalue and make someone a "Bad object" to feel unhappy, desperate, worthless and lost. He provokes such emotional reactions. Its a huge amount of FOOD/or fuel for him to do so. Negativ fuel is even more potential than positive (getting compliments etc.).
An autistic person doesnt operate that was. He/she never feels good about hearing that his/her partner/parent/sibling/child etc. feels upset / unhappy/desperate because of his behaviour. This doesn't make him feel Higher. Oh no. He gets feelings of Not good enough, inadequatcy, that he failed when He she shuts or melts down. He May feel critisized - a narcissistic person consider him/herself critisized easily too because their mental age is a child - but the reaction, the Intention why this behaviour and the conviction of the Heart & the whole Person is different to the core. An autist never wants and enjoyes to hurt & upset Someone in His Life. A narcissistic individual knows she/ he goes wrong to get a favourable Outcome. They are highly manipulative.
My autistic husbund is the opposite. He is authentic and absolutely straight until social inadequacy. No White lies, no bad lies anyway. He absolutely cannot manipulate. He is not deceptive while a narcissistic man/woman like and use deception as survival straregy And for their fun.
I Love my partner for his sincere nature and for sooo much more. Masking in autism is not deception. Its bringing efforts to fit in and fullfill the expectations of the mother, father, teachers, school in general, work place. (He prefers a solo office and a special area to work on by his own. Highly specialized in his corner. As a child his granny saved him from the traumatizing fast seperation and overwhelming group situation in the kindergarden. He was happier to arrange flowers in the shop of his auntie. She prevented a lot of common damage to autistic kids) My partner is absolutely willing to bring efforts for our childrens, for ja wellbeing, my health in a das to das basis. Constantly. A NARCISSISTIC man/Woman doesnt care. They Couldnt care lese! And our Birthdays and Days of marriage. He doesnt forget or miss a Date or appointment. A narcissistic man give a damn to an appointment with His Partner and tends to ruin Birthdays by purpose.
My husband is really down when I say he has hurt me or her thinks He didnt met my expectations or doesnt know what more to say to reduce my pain and sadness. And He becomes really anxious when he didn't recognized His voice sounded aggressive and I reacting emotionally now. He is every time surprised and thinks I am start with being upset Not him, without a reason. He thinks the conflict started with my emotion (for him an Attack) but IT was a reaction to his aggressive or anoid voice or ignorance/ emotional unavailability in the Moment I need his affection & understanding the most. - I am Not Always able to autoregulate my pain (as He is able to every time. A great autistic ability by the way in the autonomous area)
From time to time He is even able to give me compassion and deeper understanding.... and He is in such Moments great and surprisingly accurate, but these Moments are rare. He connects with me in this deep Level when IT IS absolutely necessary but in emergency Situations only. Because it Costs him a huge amount of Energy. His mental battery is Low after this emotional co-regulation for the Rest of the day and He must disconnect and reload His Energies.
This leads to the Main difference between autism and narcissism. A narcissistic programming is Not capable of Autoregulation. IT IS very dependent and needy and regulates emotionally through tourmanting the human closest to them. A autistic programming is a master of Selfregulation , an autonomouse Island, and has Low social and emotional needs and IS therefore Not difficult to Care for. My husband is Happy with his Work, Garden, Hyper Focus Games to relax , His routines, and Tasks He tends to do perfectly and responsibly. He is very ethic and Likes to Help out and save or protect Others. His Abstract intelligence and fast Reading, Obsession with Numbers and Letters, word riddles is cute and very useful. Even the exact Numbers of the flowers and their colors for my Birthday have a meaning. I really Love that. Kind regards to all autistic men / women and their Partners. As an empath I am different from him in so e ways (was of dealing with my emotions and with conflict, feeling deeply and deep and complex thinker, He needs it more simple) but maybe I am also Not neurotypical. We both can have a hyperfocus and Dive into this for hours , excluding the world around and other tasks. I do that more thank him indeed. And we let each other space for this. I feel thankful and really appreciate him for Letting me do these deep dives, Sometimes I miss to share with him what treasures I found on a deep dive that I Bring to the surface. Would Love to speak with him about it in great details. I TRIED. But IT ends up killing my Joy and excitement. Whats a pitty. So its better to keep IT for myself. Hope I am Welcome to share IT with other neurodiverse people in the spectrum. Kind regards to you all
I just wanted to stop in here and say thank you for this comment. You seem like a really caring and understanding partner. I'm glad that you have been able to learn all these things and apply them to your relationship.
Thanks for sharing your ideas about the difference between narcissism and ASD. I appreciate the way you described these. I once had a partner who I don't believe understood this difference, and I think it's a very important to notice. That partner of mine didn't have this particular kind of insight to be able to articulate the things that you're mentioning here, and it ended. So I'm happy to see there are other people out there who have gained the necessary perspective to make things work. Congratulations!
Finally, your comments about how draining it can be to engage in very very deep emotional co-regulation... I have felt this in my own life. Just like your husband, if I spend 2 hours really deeply helping someone with emotional issues, "playing therapist" in a very deep and intentional (and almost always very productive) way... It will absolutely cost me all my energy for the rest of the day.
I always imagined this was some failing on my part. That I needed space after those kinds of conversations. It always made me feel selfish. So thank you for sharing your experience. Now I know it isn't just me. That makes it a lot easier to deal with.
Thanks for sharing your experiences. They helped this stranger today.
Beautiful comment, thank you. I have expressed to therapists too that my husband is not narcissistic-I too grew up with this kind of person as a child and I have always said that the difference is my husband never does these things or acts the way he does to intentionally hurt. If you’re in therapy alone and describe the persons’s actions though-it does sound abusive. And sometimes it IS abusive, autism or not. But it’s not intentional, at least not from my guy.
wow, sir. this is by far the most helpful digest ever relating on this topic. and being Aspi. and struggling in partnership.
thanks alot
You are most welcome
This is valuable. I am just learning I’m on the spectrum. I have disliked the word narcissist and it’s overuse for a while and couldn’t pinpoint why. Now I know why.
My Aspie husband has narc and sociopathic traits ( all personality disorders). Also extremely oppositional. He calls the cops on me when he feels like he’s losing control. It’s harassment. He’s also very unstable. I’m trying to separate from him as our relationship is toxic to mine and our children’s health and well being. I have no support or anywhere to go.
I am in same position
I am with a man who when any little thing happens threatens to divorce me, call the cops, or sue me! Then he is loving a few hours later. Its a cycle and u get sick. He is aspie but he is also manipulative and can read me and asks me when I pull away whats wrong. I suppose u can be narc and aspie
God knows
I wish you all the best and peace❤️
@@boutiquelove5391 Thank you! 💗 I’m so sorry you deal with the same problem. I am trying to separate from him but I have no support and two young boys. I feel trapped. Do you have children?
Boutique, I heard you can't have narcissistic and sociopathic with autism. Those behaviours are caused by autism which is developmental disorder where as psychopathic and narcissist is personality disorder not developmental. Sorry for my writing, my grammar is very poor as I have globular impairments.
@@birdlover6842 Correct.Narcs and sociopaths rely on being highly manipulative which a mind blind aspie is incapable of.
Thanks for your reply
I am happier to think he is autistic with fluctuating ability to be emotional than he is narcissistic
Its so painful as i would not want to be alone
What about the sabotage? It's the sabotage that keeps getting in the way of trusting him.
Thanks so much! I appreciate your work.
You bet!
Haven't watched the video yet so forgive me, I just wanted to write a mini essay of the title
. I do agree that narcissism and autism may portray themselves similarly. I believe narcissists have realized this as well. I believe narcissists mimic the parts of autism that are appreciated by others: their pure joy, their silliness, their joy, their light.
The autists achilles heal, however, is that the same amount of good they exude is the same amount they're willing to go if someone crosses them or is mean to them or is just a bad person. The defense is more important than looking crazy in public. (Screaming, crying etc). Narcissists love this because they can easily puppet the autist to react in any which way they want. It's harder for a narcissist to do this to a neurotypical because neither would understand the other fully because each chooses to do different things with the light and darkness.
Neurotypicals have a healthy light and darkness, autists have extreme light and extreme darkness. Narccisits have extreme light and extreme darkness as well but they somehow use their light for darkness, for selfishness, for manipulation. Narccisits use light to bring glory to themselves, autistic people use their light for joy. Autists and narcissist butt heads so much because they manipulate with their darkness, autists defend them selves and others with their darkness.
Neurotypicals aren't aware of what's happening because people project their intentions onto other. Why would anyone manipulate the truth? Why would anyone be willing to make themselves look crazy for the truth?
Autistic and narccisits are able to recognize each other but they don't agree with how they're conducting their lights.
Autist are good people who are able to see the narcissisrts true character. The reason they care more about the truth than their appearance is because they're trying to warn people as well as they're trying to stick up for themselves. It's frustrating trying to tell the truth but getting too emotionally and morally involved and having the mass manipulated and against the wrong person.
Everyone is being used by the narc but only the autistic truly understand because we're opposite sides on the same coin.
Summary
( They know autistic people don't know how to handle the negativity publicly but a narcissist does. They steel the elements of autism that are good and use it to mask their narcissism, trigger the autist which results in everyone either hating the autist or believe that the autist is truly the narcissist because they know they autistic person can't stop their reaction ): they then keep the only positive of narcissism (positive the them but not others; manipulation. Selfishness. Using the situation they orchestrate to their advantage because they have positioned themselves to have power of the social group by gaining have control, switched the narrative, tear down the competition and take there place. )
Didnt proof read or organize so my bad
Recent studies have shown mind-blindness in ASD has been shown to be mind-blindness towards NT brains, but not (or less so) towards ND brains. Then there's the double empathy problem: NT people have some "mind-blindness" towards ASD people (see e.g. Autism 2018 Aug;22(6):740-750).
Also importantly, sensory sensitivity is not just anxiety. It has be shown that many ASD people have actually different peripheral nervous systems than NT people: the sensitivity is at the physical nerves level (Neuroscience. 2020 Oct 1; 445: 120-129). It can definitely be a vicious cycle with anxiety, as it's not fun to be overstimulated to the point of pain by environments that other people think are normal. Yes, it's a two-way street, but hopefully that information can help NT people understand.
This is true. I have less of a problem reading my female autistic friends than neurotypical women.
this made a lot of sense
Sadly, I have to look at our future and if I pass away b4 him. I feel I have to have everything in place for my older daughter in case. Like you say Mark, the mind- blindness and execution function. Still love him greatly tho.
I can have better reciprocity with a house plant, so done
Almost 62 here and autistic and LGBT. I have never thought I could meet the emotional needs of some neurotypical people, especially traditional men. But with people who are in one of my overlapping groups, the friendship comes easier. If I'm looking at someone immersed in a special interest or trapped in a shutdown, I don't take it personally, because I do those things. I am thinking about getting into a relationship again and it's got to be another ND or LGBT person. I don't have any energy left for masking at home. Everyone cannot be everything to every person, but we all deserve to love and be loved.
I also think in some cases, the autistic is just the "identified patient." Both parties may be trying to meet needs from each other that mature, healed people can supply to themselves. Once you reach my age, you are better off with a high degree of self-sufficiency no matter who you are. Winding up alone is always a possibility.
nope when it turns violent when they are mind blind to someone's intentions, its a wrap!
I had a roommate who has ASD level 1 and I’m trying to understand some of her behaviors.
What about if the husband has Aspbergers and tghe wife is NOT NT and has ADHD ? Is there any hope for such a couple ?
If they are both willing to work on the areas where they struggle but in my experience males are not.
6:28 I know she’s not dumb and I do care if I could just know if I get everything organized and caught up it would benefit both of us.
What do we do if we might have a mental problem.
I think we autists are suitable with NT people who want unconventional relationships. Then all parts are thinking outside the box, which is incredibly helpful. Our relationships (be it friendships or whatever you wanna call them) will never look as conventional NT ones.
Thank you!!! This is very helpful
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you, Mark, as always! One question: How does oppositional defiance manifests in someone on the spectrum? Thank you in advance for addressing this topic later.😉
As mentioned in the video, the person with autism has a lot of unpredictability in his life. He feels like he has very little control over external circumstances. Thus, Oppositional behavior is a way to get some semblance of control in one’s life. It too is an Anxiety reduction method.
My Aspie husband is extremely oppositional!!
@@markhutten That's on point.. I have ASD (probably on the aspergers side of it) and if I don't understand a reaction, I might feel threatened and be very tempted to lash back, so I can feel a bit of control over the situation that is going on, like in an argument or when he says I should have done this or that for this or that reason instead of doing what I had done. It feels like I have to justify myself so he understand that I didn't mean to upset him, cause idk why he is upset! It's confusing and can cause a lot of anxiety in the relationship. But communication and hearing what the other truly has to say helps me calm this feeling and I feel like I can understand what he meant afterwards, even if it don't make sense to me ^^ So I can relate to him and give him an appropriate response in return.. It's kind of like trying to sail a boat, with some commands that are irresponsive (being in an argument or situation like this feels like this to me)
Omg great question! My partner is determined to not do whatever he considers a “demand.”
@@ziggypip2938 yes mine too....there is a name for it but i cant think of it...I think anilexia ??? I know that is not sp right
Everybody else was commenting so I felt that I had to as well. 'Hop over the fence and jump in.'
So it is narcissism for mine then. Because he’s got all of these plus gaslighting and cheating…
But he’s also got repetitive behaviors.
Both? My dad has both from my limited interactions with him.
I think if someone truly has the ability to empathise, I don't think they would pretend they couldn't empathise in order to "get their way". I think if someone truly has a hard time understanding someone else's experience, it's going to be apparent in the difficulty they have to really understand your perspective. My problem is I have autism spectrum/ADHD/PTSD and so does my spouse. It's been a lonely and trying 8 years!!!! So exhausted. Praying for a therapist who can really help with this. I have been studying narcissism for years 🙄 but yet to file for a divorce. Separated 2 1/2 years. He commonly says, "Even if we don't work out..." Like, really? After all this time... Hmmmm. 🎪
What about women with ASD?
Same
@@markhutten We are not as bad as the males as we spend hours mimicking and trying to understand the world. Many of us become actors and study psychology either formally or informally. Females are hard wired to be more social than males and when men are ready to pair off they are generally more happy to isolate. Aspie men do this even more so . The majority of my aspie female friends have been social or have wanted to ad only one was happy to be alone.
I do the false agreement, short circuiting. I agree just to not have to disagree, but I don’t agree. My husband used to think that I thought he was dumb. He has thought of my working memory deficit as a lack of care. There are a lot of points that are consistent with our relationship.
@@lillypilly6440 Women with ASD can be every bit as hurtful and damaging to their partner as men with ASD, in a more insidious way because the symptoms are somewhat concealed at first. I think just as with NTs, everyone is different, and good or bad according to themselves. Speaking as someone who was abused, and left with my life in utter tatters by my partner with diagnosed ASD, I can assure you women can be just 'as bad'.
@@lillypilly6440 Females being social is a myth. They are anti-social, they have no friends like men do, etc.
Very true😊😊😊
How would a couple being a neurodivergent man and ADHD woman who is also an HSP (highly sensitive person) with childhood of neglect.
Mark, Doesn't the mind-blindness go both way? It feels like to me that by its vary nature it has to be to at least some extent symmetrical. ASD can't easily understand non-ASD, due to thinking and understanding differently, then the non-ASD have the same issue. A lot is made of ASD deficiencies regarding interacting with non-ASD, and I realize we are in a non-ASD world, so this is the default, but it is frustrating.
NTs definitely have their own version of misunderstanding other's perspectives [especially if the other has ASD].
This needs emphasising again and again.Nt's should not be regarded as the default just because they are the majority.That is just might makes right and sheer naked bullying.
@@claren2792 Thank you so much for this is new info. to me it confirms so much of what I've thought to be true for ages
@@51elephantchang _This needs emphasising again and again.Nt's should not be regarded as the default just because they are the majority_
Yes, they should. If you go to China, do you expect everyone to speak English to you? No, that would be stupidly inefficient. It is up to neurodivergents to do the bulk of the heavy lifting. If neurodivergents are 4% of the population, say, then it means that 24 out of every 25 people they meet operate in a neurotypical way. They get LOTS of opportunities to practice and can be relatively sure that anyone they meet will behave in a predictable manner. On the flipside, the average NT is going to meet ONE neurodivergent person out of every 25 people he meets, so he has far less opportunity to learn and must reasonably operate under the assumption that the next person he meets is NT.
Is that fair? No. But, guess what. Life's not fair.
PS. This doesn't even begin to get into the issue of almost EVERYONE not knowing about neurodivergence even existing in the first place.
Yeah, those certainly sound like npd, even though they aren't.
Very helpful but isn't there a spectrum where behaviours in autism/aspergers vary in intensity and frequency ?
Thank you
Welcome!
Not all of us on the spectrum are as mind blind as this generalization claims. I wish your videos gave examples acknowledging it's a spectrum, not just making a caricature of Aspergers/ HFA.
@@Alphacentauri819 typically asking questions helps inform if what you're seeing matches reality, or, misses the context.
It's not all that much different from getting a good idea of what you look like to other people if you've never seen your own reflection.
For example, if I see someone wandering around looking like they lost something, I could ask them if they lost something. Do this type of thing enough and odds are you'll get good at guessing what's going on with other people, even if you weren't naturally wired to pick up on it (especially because neurotypical theory of mind is essentially just educated guesses about what someone is thinking and feeling anyways).
So, my question to you is, were you trying to undermine my comment, or, did you legitimately want to know? I answered as if the latter was true.
Perhaps you AIN'T on the Spectrum
@@aries4901 Perhaps random internet person. But more likely you aren't my doctor and have no idea what you're talking about. I actually AM on the spectrum per my diagnosis as a child. And, considering Asperger's/ HFA is a lifelong condition, it's not going away just because there's a mild end of the spectrum and with behavioral therapy/ education and training you most certainly can be less impaired.
This channel is mostly for people (NT/ASD spouses) who have problems in NT/ASD marriage and often even dont know why. My ex was undiagnosed and Unfortunately all his (often really cold/cruel) behaviours looked like narcisstic/sociopathic. Long after breakup I discovered it was ASD (my therapist „diagnosed it”hearing about all behaviours and symptoms). So you have to understand that somebody who doesnt have such big problems would not search for this kind of video/advices= those are relevant for „hard” cases otherwise we would not seek answers and explanations for totally odd, irrational behaviours, reactions, and in my case …emotional abuse
Based on the way they talk about it everybody is "mind blind". You don't know what anybody else is *actually* thinking.
2:12 😂
😂
I recognise all of your 4 culprits in myself especially the anxiety which is probably the result of the other 3.I don't think most nt's can ever relate however empathetic they imagine themselves to be to existing in a state of more or less perpetual anxiety..
Thank you Peter. My recent ex bf marks all the boxes just mentioned. Relationship ended due to all of the above and me snapping and going ballistic many times the last couple months. I supported us both financially and struggled while it looked to me as if he didn’t give 2 hoots about me.
On the other hand he could be super caring and sweet. I felt like he was being manipulative.
@@shaynalee Sorry to hear about your relationship ending.I'll just leave you with one thought... if as you say he is mind blind how can he also be manipulative?
@@51elephantchang my Aspie husband comes off as manipulative as well. Idk if it’s true manipulation but this is a wide spectrum disorder with no two aspies alike.
@@51elephantchang that’s the thing that made me crazy. Sometimes he didn’t seem as mind blind and seemed like a regular person then on a dime didn’t get it. Plus I wasn’t always aware the mind blindness was going on and what it looked like. The inconsistency confused and tortured me. I felt vulnerable as I was the only income earner. And of course I have my own issues from my childhood. He is undiagnosed also. He’s getting tested in 2 weeks and that was only due to my insistence which we also fought about since I’m “not a doctor” He relied on his doctors to tell him what’s up with himself and was going from one med to the next. He’s 30.
@@shaynalee Well Shayna we do become somewhat skilled at masking in order to survive in your world.However it is utterly exhausting and inevitably the mask has to slip.Then follows the meltdown/withdrawl period and we recharge just to go thru the cycle again.It all feels like a shabby pointless comprimise sometimes but what else is to be done?We didn't ask to be born.Anyway good luck and sorry for droning on.
Dear Alphabet, please spin off your research into a software producing education company, so that LaMDa can be used to teach curricula around the world - "human teachers" would take the role of observers, sociologists, legal human rights specialists and psychologists.