All of my life I have listened to some great Bible teachers, many of whom have a different view on end time theology (eschatology), and I too have my own thoughts, but if the truth be known, no one can be dogmatic about that which is yet to happen. Of course, we can imagine, speculate, presume and have an opinion on what how it will all pan out from our personal understanding of scripture, but the only thing we know for sure is that Jesus is coming and we must be ready!
If amillennialism is correct and the Devil is currently bound so that his influence is less now than it was prior to Christ’s death and resurrection, and the Saints are ruling, the question has to be asked: how come not only is there so much obvious evil prevalent in the world today, but it also continues to get demonstrably worse? 1 Peter 5:8 tells us to: Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. If the Devil is bound, how can he at the same time be walking about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour? It cannot be both at the same time. If Satan is bound: 1. Why did Christ commission Paul to turn Jew and Gentile “from the power of Satan to God” (Acts 26:18)? 2. Why could Paul deliver the Corinthian fornicator to Satan (1 Corinthians 5:5)? 3. Why Satan can transform himself into “an angel of light” (2 Corinthians 11:14)? 4. Why Paul would warn the Ephesian believers not to “give place to the Devil” (Ephesians 4:27) and urge them and us today to “stand against the wiles of the Devil” (Ephesians 6:11)? 5. How could Satan still continually be able to accuse Christians before God and, with his angels, wage war in heaven against “Michael and his angels” and at last be cast out of heaven to earth (Revelation 12:7-10) 6. How could Satan hinder Paul coming to the church at Thessalonica (1 Thessalonians 2:18)? 7. Why would Paul be concerned that Satan was able to tempt the Thessalonians and render his labour in vain (1 Thessalonians 3:5)? These questions demand amillennialism to stand up to biblical scrutiny and provide an answer. Sadly, the only answer I have received from amillennialists so far is there insistence that the Devil is currently bound, but is just on a long chain! The reason WHY the Devil will be bound by God in the future is made clear in Revelation 20:3: And he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while. According to Revelation 20:3, the Devil will not be able to deceive the nations during the time he is bound. Therefore, if amillennialism is correct and the Devil is bound now, he should not currently be able to deceive the nations. Does any Christian really believe the Devil is not currently influencing and deceiving the nations? You only have to consider the following three titles that point to Satan’s authority in this world: “The ruler of this world” (John 12:31). “The god of this age” (2 Corinthians 4:4). “The prince of the power of the air” (Ephesians 2:2).
So according to amillennialism “the ruler of this world”, “the god of this age” and “the prince of the power of the air” is bound now and unable to deceive the nations! 1 John 5:19 tells us: And the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one. How could the whole world be “under the sway” (i.e. the “power” as other Bible versions translate it) of the Devil if he is currently unable to deceive the nations? 2 Corinthians 11:14 says that Satan transforms himself into “an angel of light”, which very clearly describes his ability and inclination to deceive. We have to ask if Satan is bound now and therefore unable to deceive the nations, who are “the nations” referred to in Revelation 20:3? Are they just the non-believers in the world? That cannot be the case, because Scripture is clear that Satan is the current ruler of this world and anyone not in Christ’s kingdom is (knowingly or not) deceived and part of Satan’s kingdom. As just one example, Paul states in Ephesians 2:2 that the Devil “now works in the sons of disobedience”. Does “the nations” therefore refer to Christians? That cannot be the case either because believers are warned time and time again in the New Testament about the danger of being deceived. For example, Paul warned the church about being deceived in 2 Corinthians 11:3-4; 13-15 and Galatians 6:7. Paul exhorted believers to: Test all things; hold fast what is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21). Why would believers need to test all things if we cannot be deceived? Paul warned: Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons (1 Timothy 4:1). It is absolutely clear that Christians can be deceived, and that a sign of Jesus’ Second Coming getting closer will be that believers will be deceived, and Satan is the cause of the deception. As it is clear that both believers and non-believers can currently be deceived, it is obvious that Revelation 20:3 is referring to a future event where the Devil will be bound and unable to deceive the nations. Therefore, we cannot currently be in the Millennium, as amillennialists today continue to claim.
I don't have time to respond to all of that so I'll just respond to points 1 and 5 for now. As for Acts 26:18, that verse supports Amillennialism because Paul was commissioned to do something unprecedented before the New Testament era.He was told to preach to the Gentiles who were formerly "without God in the world" (Eph 2:11-13) to turn them from the power of Satan to the power of God.That was only possible because of Satan's power being restrained compared to what it was in Old Testament times.
As for point 5 regarding Satan accusing believers, you should know that he was cast out of heaven long ago after the resurrection of Christ. He was not able to accuse anyone after that which is why Paul, in Romans 8:33 indicated that no one can make any charge/accusation against God's chosen any longer because of what Jesus had accomplished. He said no one so that includes Satan.
@@MisterN0b0dy Why do you think that? Do you have anything to say in response to what I said about him being cast out of heaven long ago? Can he, or anyone, accuse us before God today? Doesn't Romans 8:33 indicate that no one can make any charge/accusation against us anymore?
If you are non-dispensational, do not use the term "church age", because this term is non-biblical and was bred from dispensationalism. If you reject dispensationalism, there is 1 assembly, 1 church, to which we are grafted upon believing (Romans 11).
I’ve used a Scofield Study Bible for 40 years, and I’ve been a devout student of Dispensationalism, but now I realize I was blinded to the truth. Scofield and his teaching are fraudulent.
The following proves you are correct. Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ? (Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30) The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations? 1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? (See Galatians 3:8) 2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ? 3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds? 4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh? 5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers? 6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"? 7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost? 8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.) 9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis? 10. Watch the RUclips video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church. Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology. Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:
“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.” Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107. Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.” Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323. John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated… "...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.” John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.) What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16? Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth? Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups? Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13? Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?
WOW! Good on you for being willing to seek the truth instead of digging in you heals to defend an indefensible doctrine. Dispensationalism is nonsense from beginning to end.
@@Over-for-now Because what Scofield taught was not true! Dispensationalism is a convoluted, unbiblical doctrine. Respectfully. And HERE is where they go wrong in my humble opinion: Dispensationalists claim that they interpret the bible "Literally" while others such as Amils interpret the bible "Spiritually." But this dichotomy is in error. The biblical dichotomy is Earthly/Natural vs Heavenly/Spiritual, *BOTH Literal* Read 1 Corinthians 15: Paul tells us that Adam was of the EARTH and Jesus is of Heaven. Adam was a NATURAL man while Jesus is a SPIRITUAL man. Both are literal. This is why the book of Hebrews is called the book of "Better" things and why the things in the OT were the earthly "shadows" while Jesus is the spiritual reality. There was an earthly Israel There is now a Spiritual Israel. There was (is) an earthly Jerusalem (which is in bondage) There is now a Heavenly/Spiritual Jerusalem "Who is the mother of us all" We were BORN (spiritually) into Her! Hebrews 12;22 tells us "You HAVE come to the heavenly Jerusalem" (not WILL come) When you stop viewing scripture through the "Literal vs Spiritual" lense and you begin seeing scripture through the Earthly/Natural vs Heavenly/Spiritual lense, the entire bible makes complete sense without having to make the bible teach two kingdoms, two peoples of god, two second comings, etc. May I suggest that you read Ephesians 2 very carefully. The Church IS founded upon earthly/natural ISRAEL. The "Remnant" spoken of by Isaiah (1:9) and Paul (Romans 9:29) THEY were of the faith of Abraham (Galatians 3) and the gentiles were grafted into THEM! "What then? What the people of Israel (earthly/natural) sought so earnestly they *did not obtain* *The elect among them* (Spiritual Israel) DID, but the others were hardened," Romans 11:7
@@Over-for-now Sarah, this is not about being smart. This is about believing what the scripture actually teaches. Dispensationalism has no foundation in scripture Remember, many people believe many things that are not in scripture just ask the Mormons and the Jehovah’s Witnesses Again, I suggest that you read Ephesians 2 until you understand who the church is I would also ask you this very simple question If Israel did not obtain what they sought for but the elect among them did what was it that they obtained? What happened to the elect remnant of Israel? Did they disappear? Parallel this verse with Romans 9 and the branches being cut off. Where were they cut off from and where will they be grafted back into? The answer is the church! The people of God! The "Holy Nation" as Peter calls The Church. The old testament Israel, who were the foundation of the church as Ephesians 2 says, were who the gentiles were grafted into and became a part of the covenant people. The final remnant of earthly natural Israel will be grafted back into the church! There is one Israel tree There is one body There is one house of God? "But if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.” 1 Timothy 3:15. Don’t allow pride to get in the way of understanding scripture.
I appreciate this discussion, and good points were being made. However - the man in the middle talks way too fast and, for me, is very difficult to endure. I had to quit this about halfway through for that reason.
I had the same feeling. He kept saying he had to be humble while saying why other viewpoints were wrong, yet he kept bringing up his points with a gotcha kind of attitude. Didn't they agree that all view points have their strengths and challenges? I understand you can lean toward one viewpoints but the guy in the middle seems too assured and proud that he is 100% right and other are wrong.
Great topic! I was just looking into the thousands years of Christ and became puzzled about it. It will be interesting to hear the amillennian perspective.
Amil is also reigning now on Earth from Heaven. Mathew 28:18 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 1Cor15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. Rev1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. -Kings of what? This is present tense. Jesus rules on Earth, right now. Who is the clay to ask what the potter is making? Life is a trial by fire. How can God judge the faithful, unless their faith is tried. What has always been said? That God always has a remnant.
If amil is correct, how do the children who have died aborted children who are not of age to accept Christ. Where do they get the chance to accept Jesus? I personally believe pri millennium mid trib is the most logical position in Bible.
@@fundyden4771 Nobody “accepts” Jesus; he doesn’t need your help. All Gods elect are fore known, predetermined before the foundation of the earth and are predestined. You play no part and have no say of whom is a part of Gods elect. This has already been predetermined before the universe came to be.
Wow I been looking for someone that has the view I do and you all are SPOT ON, what I believe. Idk if the older of the men, is the guy in the middles grandpa, SORRY idk y'all names, but I thought I heard u call him pop or something i think, but just loved it and laughed along, when u started your joke on the saducees, and the elder gentlemen laughed, just loved his reaction.❤ I was about to say the joke along with ya😂I subscribed and I'll be watching y'all from now on ,God bless❤👃
This is where we human goes wrong. Notice your statement, "someone that has the view I do and you all are spot on". Have you considered that you might be wrong just as these folks are? If you want to know the true, the best way is to search the scripture for yourself without your preconceived ideas. For the scriptures says that God give grace to the humble and resist the proud. if you come before God with your preconceived ideas you are bringing your pride: I know better and I have the answer. That's what these fools are saying thus bringing others with opposing ideas to bring their higher. That is pride and God hear not these fools.
It's funny how he said "the one I disagree with the most is postmill." Then goes on to say the 14 out of 15 things that amill has in common with postmill. Lol
Great discussion topic that I've ALWAYS wondered about. As you were discussing the birds gathering and eating flesh, I remember Matt 24 and Luke 17..."where the dead bodies are the vultures(eagles) will gather". I didn't hear you connect those references. Should they be?
Exactly. These souls referred to are the souls of people who had the testimony of Jesus and did not worship the antichrist or take his mark. They were beheaded. Their bodies died. Their souls then went to be with the Lord. It's absurd to say that their souls must now be "spiritually resurrected". This would imply that their souls are dead in trespasses and sins. They would basically have to be born again of the Spirit a second time in heaven. Furthermore we are told that after these souls are resurrected "they lived and reigned with Christ for 1000 years". And yet the Amill view is that both the 2nd coming battle and the battle at the end of the 1000 years are ONE And THE SAME BATTLE!. It shows how far they will go to twist this view into a mind bending pretzel. They will not let the scriptures conform their beliefs but attempt to reverse the process and conform the scriptures to their own imaginations. It's sad and very dangerous particularly when we read the powerful warnings against adding to or taking away from the book of Revelation in chapter 22.
@@robbymacklin yep. Leaves lots of questions / unexplained reasoning around much of the book of Revelation. Turn this into a question back to them ? Which bits they see as historic events, which bits as future coming events.
I'm a little late to the party. But maybe I'm just not listening well enough (I'm still learning and it's challenging doing so by myself as I'm kind of an awkward person socially) I suppose I'd be considered believing amillenial since the way I read it Jesus is the lamb who is worthy opening the seals in heaven currently? And with the battle it says Jesus will come down and slay the beast and throw them in the pit during a 1000 year millennial reign and I forget the reference but I believe I read it casts some of the surviving nations to the valleys and at the end of which when the beast comes out of the pit at the end of the 1000 years of millennial reign Jesus casts him the false profit and all the wicked into the lake of fire and the great white judgment takes place where all will be judged by their faith and acts. So I think that it's different battles not the same one. Does that sound fairly on point or is there something I'm missing?
The clear result of the “amillennial” view as originally espoused by Augustine is to dismiss nearly the entire Book of Revelation. And that hardly squares with the promise of Revelation 1:3 to bless those that “read aloud the words of this prophecy”.
The gentleman in the middle is trying so hard to prove his point by trying to give so much info HE IS CAUSING CONFUSION giving out all of this information you can't take it all in.
In Rev 19:20 the beast and false prophet are in the lake of fire, and Rev 20:10 Satan is thrown in there, while the false prophet and beast are already present. I don't see any reason to disregard chapter 19 and 20 as chronological, and the fire coming down in 20 is not the same as the fire from the breath of Jesus's mouth. Yet, it's a good take, I appreciate the work and devotion! Thank you!
I totally agree. I'm not sure how coming to the wrong conclusion in these important matters is "a good take". I guess you are trying to be gracious and I agree that we must speak the truth in love, but coming to a false conclusion about the end of the age is very dangerous. How we look at this subject will shape our view of God and our hope in His immanent coming. Amillenialism does violence to the promises of God regarding us and regarding the nation and land of Israel. The one who is called Faithful and True will most definitely keep His promises.
I dont need men to explain things to me. God himself showed me that 19 and 20 cannot be in any type of Chronological order. There are other examples. The fowls being called to the feast sounds very similarly to "where the carcass is there will the vultures be gathered." A mil is the most correct. Took me 20 years to get this revelation. Praise God.
I don’t believe John’s revelation is linear or in chronological order. John was taken out of the timeline and so when I read/study Revelation, I take my Hal Lyndsey glasses off and try to see what he’s saying in a different light. And this is not a salvation issue so we all can agree to disagree without being mean or condemning others for for having a different view on the 1000 years.
Zechariah 14:9 And the Lord shall be King over all the EARTH. All of chapter 14 of Zechariah is describing in detail the millennial reign of our Lord Jesus.
The apostles teach Christ is reigning now. If we say Christ will institute an earthly kingdom for a 1000 year, non-everlasting reign, we need scripture which indicates such. Acts 2 has Peter saying Christ fulfilled the Davidic covenant by continuing David's kingdom with an everlasting reign; there was no mention of a temporary, non-eternal 1000 year reign. Both amil/postmil, and premil believe Zechariah 14:9, but disagree on when. If there is a passage referencing Zechariah 14:9 which explicitly indicates when, I'd like to know about that passage so I can update my notes on it.
The Greek word for "thousand" is "Chilioi" was used in 2 Peter 3:8 and in Revelation 20:1-7 The definition is (Uncertain Affinity) not a literal thousand years on this earth as many claim Strong’s Definitions χίλιοι chílioi, khil'-ee-oy; plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand:-thousand.
Thousand = Uncertain Affinity Therefore, since it's a time of uncertainity, how can anyone place a "definite" time on something that is uncertain?
More Scripture on Rev.20:5 - THE REST OF THE DEAD" ... Mat 8:21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. 22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and LET THE DEAD BURY THEIR DEAD Luk 9:59 And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. :60 Jesus said unto him, LET THE DEAD BURY THEIR DEAD: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God. Eph 2:1 And YOU HATH HE QUICKENED, who WERE DEAD in trespasses and sins; Eph 2:5-6 Even when we WERE DEAD in sins, HATH QUICKENED US TOGETHER WITH CHRIST, (by grace ye are saved;) And HATH RAISED US UP TOGETHER and made us SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES IN CHRIST JESUS: Eph 1:3 & 19-20 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who HATH blessed us with all spiritual blessings IN HEAVENLY PLACES IN CHRIST: ..... 19 And what is THE EXCEEDING GREATNESS of HIS POWER TO US-ward who believe, according to the working of HIS MIGHTY POWER, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, WHEN he raised him from the dead, and SET HIM at his own right hand IN THE HEAVENLY PLACES, Eph 3:16-17 ,20 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be STRENGTHENED with MIGHT by HIS SPIRIT IN THE INNER MAN; ... 20 Now unto HIM THAT IS ABLE to do EXCEEDING ABUNDANTLY above ALL THAT WE ASK OR THINK, according to the POWER that worketh IN US, Col 2:13 And YOU, BEING DEAD in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, HATH HE QUICKENED together WITHI HIM, having forgiven you all trespasses; Col 3:1 If YE THEN BE RISEN WITH CHRIST, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. 2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For ye are dead, and YOUR LIFE IS HID WITH CHRIST IN GOD. John 14:2-3, 19-20 - . 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I GO TO PREPARE A PLACE FOR YOU. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I WILL come again, and I WILL RECEIVE YOU unto myself; THAT WHERE I AM, there YE MAY BE ALSO. ...... 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: BECAUSE I LIVE, YE SHALL LIVE ALSO. 20 At THAT DAY ye shall KNOW thatII AM IN MY FATHER, and YE IN ME, and I IN YOU. . Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is CHRIST IN YOU, the hope of glory: Rev 20:4-6 And I SAW THRONES, and THEY THAT SAT UPON THEM, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the SOULS of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; andTHEY LIVED AND REIGHNED WITH CHRIST a thousand years. 5 But THE REST OF THE DEAD lived not again until the thousand years were finished. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION. 6 Blessed and holy is HE THAT HATH PART IN in the FIRST RESURRECTION: on such the SECOND DEATH HATH NO POWER, but THEY SHALL BE PRIEST OF GOD AND CHRIST, and SHALL REIGN WITH HIM a thousand years. COMPARE THE FOLLOWIG SCRIPTURES: Blessed is he that "HATH PART IN" : W/- John 13:8 & Rev. 1:5 Second DEATH hath no power: - w/- Jn. 11:25-26; Jn. 5:24; John 8:51-52; They SHALL BE PRIESTS: - w/- Rev. 1:6; 1 Pet. 2:5-9
The issue of Amill/Postmill/Premill concerns how one may characterize the millennium itself, and this starts in Rev. 20. The passages from Rev. 4 to Rev. 19 (21) which explains a certain narrative on how you get to ch. 20, can be varied. In reality that narrative depends on a few passages, namely the opening (Rev. 1:1-4), which most futurists ignore. Also it depends on how one defines the major players, the beasts, the harlot, etc., and that will be the basis for whatever narrative brings you to Rev. 20. Lets not forget, this is a "revelation," given by Christ to John, specifically directed to seven churches in Asia, all existing in the first century , written in signs or symbols, of events that will immediately begin to take place. The proper understanding will demand that any interpretation is viewed through the lenses of one of those seven churches in the first century, because they are the intended audience. The question begs, what relevance does an event have to the Christians in those churches.
Dispensational teaching has to put a gap in there after the 69th week because their teaching would not make sense otherwise. Shows right there how it's unbiblical. No gap. There just is no gap
This position is not biblical or original of the apostles. This position has no support from Old Testament and it’s fully denies all promise of God to restore the Nation of Israel, and it’s spiritualizes texts that literal as allegorical, it’s to focus on people like Augustine and Calvin etc. focus on apostles
Amil is the view that makes the most sense. No manipulating of the scriptures has to be done when we realize that the millennial reign is occurring now. Allow Jesus to reign victoriously in your life so that others will be drawn to Him!
@ Jody so when exactly has Satan been bound, to where he deceived the nations no more? That’s what Rev 20:2&3 says. He seems alive & well & deceiving even more today, to me! In fact, when in all of history has he been bound to not deceive any more!
Idk I'm not saying your wrong but this view point requires some assumptions, It's kind of the same as the pre trib does with 2 second comings but this view we have to assume 2 kinds of resurrections
A Millennium Puzzle to solve… Will Christ be conducting funeral services for mortals killed in accidents 500 years after His Second Coming? The “first resurrection” in Rev. chapter 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation, because the two witnesses are resurrected from the dead in chapter 11. There are two different types of resurrection in John chapter 5. There is a spiritual resurrection from the dead in John 5:24, and a bodily resurrection from the dead in John 5:28-29. Does your view of the Millennium agree with what Paul said in 2 Thess. 1:7-10, when Paul said Christ returns in "flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not obey the Gospel? The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20. Does your view agree with what Peter said in 2 Peter 3:10-13, when Peter said this earth is going to burn and "dissolve" when He comes as a thief on the day of the Lord? The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20. Does your view agree with what Paul said in 2 Tim. 4:1, when Paul said both the living and the dead will be judged at His appearing? The time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others is found in Rev. 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible. (This verse also proves the Book of Rev. is not in chronological order.) The judgment of the dead is also found at the end of Rev. chapter 20. Does your view agree with what Jesus said in Matt. 25:31-46, where He described the judgment of the sheep and goats, which leaves no mortals alive on the planet at the end of the passage? There are also no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Rev. chapter 19. Does your view agree with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness? Does your view agree with what John recorded in Rev. 9:1-2, when an angel comes down from heaven with a key to unlock the pit, which means the pit was locked before that time? Are there wicked angels already in the pit in Rev. 9:11? John recorded angels already "bound" in Rev. 9:14. The beast "ascends" out of the pit in Rev. chapter 11, which means the beast was in the pit before that time. Take all of the above and compare it to the symbolic language found in Rev. chapter 20, and the fact the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order, and you will have the truth.
There is a 2nd death, and there are two Resurrections. Being Born Again and raised up in Baptism (Colossians 2:10-12), and then reuniting with your body
I also found it interesting in my studies that the phrase "thousand" is spelled "aleph" in Hebrew which happens to be the "first" letter of the Hebrew alphabet.
It is possible in principle that "come to life" could be used in a non-literal sense, such as one's spirit being received with honor in heaven between death and resurrection. What is *not* possible is for John to say that the faithful resisters of the beast came to life, and that the rest of the dead did not come to life until after the thousand years, and for him to mean anything other than that what was experienced by the faithful and denied to the rest of the dead, was, after the thousand years, experienced by the rest of the dead. It was what the faithful experienced in the judgment scene of Rev. 20:4 that was denied to the rest of the dead until the completion of the thousand years in v. 5. Did the rest of the dead receive a heavenly reception and reign with Christ? No. They got physical resurrection. And since they got--belatedly--what was given to the faithful, what the faithful got was physical resurrection. To try to say anything else scrambles the passage.
John 5:25 is exactly consistent with Eph 2 and Col 1:13-14 Remember unity is Him in us but also us in Him, and He is in the Father. John 17 Then consider 1Cor 15:21-24 There is an order. And there is a spiritual resurrection and then a physical one.
The resurrection unto condemnation is the second death. Remember every knee shall bow and confess that Jesus is LORD. This is the scene we have in Revelation 20v11-14.
Revelation 20:1-3 is a continuation of the events in chapter 19. Then Revelation 20:4-17 clearly layout a 1000 year reign of Christ, then the loosing of Satan just long enough to deceive the nations to attack the camp of the saints, followed by fire down from heaven to then destroy all of God's enemies and then the Great White Throne Judgment. The verse in Revelation chapter 19 that clearly says that the Lord will not destroy any and all enemies and leave no room for future enemies is verse 15. Revelation 19:15 KJV And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. Who will he rule with a rod of iron? Sinners spared to enter the Millennium at his Second Coming. This is parallel to the following passages of Scriptures, all referring to the future Millennial Reign of Christ: Zechariah 14:9-11 KJV And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one. [10] All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. [11] And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited. Zechariah 14:16-21 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. [17] And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. [18] And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain ; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. [19] This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. [20] In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE Lord ; and the pots in the Lord's house shall be like the bowls before the altar. [21] Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts. Revelation 2:26-27 KJV And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: [27] And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. Revelation 12:5 KJV And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. Amillennialism has no case in the Holy Scriptures.
Good job. Yes the narrative of Rev 20 is covering the same time period as Rev 19. "The Battle", of 20 is the same battle of 19.19 and of 16.14. and I would also add 14.14-20 There are other features common to various layers of Rev, indicating that they are covering covering same periods of time. 11.7. 17.8. 20.3. 20.7. speak of the event of Satan coming out of the bottomless. 6.16. 11.18. 20.11-13. speak of the one-time end of the world and judgment. speak of the time of the Tribulation, and that it would be a short time. But reader, ponder this, Why is it that nowhere in the N.T. (excluding Rev 20) is there any mention of a 1000 yr reign of Jesus after he returns? ...nowhere. In Mat, Mark, and Luke, Jesus tells of the total time period between right then, and all the way up to the Judgment, - and NO MENTION of a 1000 yr reign after he returns. No mention. Why? Peter and Paul both speak of end time events, but no mention of a 1000yr reign of Christ after He returns. Why? Is it some kind of secret? But they all mention that Christ is right now, on the throne reigning, having defeated Satan, death, Hell and the grave. JESUS IS REIGNING NOW. and we reign with Him. And Peter and Paul reign with Him. We don't give enough weight to that; we ho-hum it. Jesus is reigning now, and all the wicked things the democrats and the left are doing, - that's not causing Him to fret, He's not fidgety; He hasn't budged one inch on that throne; and He's not going to budge one inch. He's going to continue to reign, and then He comes and bashes them with a rod of iron. Or, as in flaming fire, taking vengeance; Or, as in the days of Noah, - destroying . e v e r y o n e . on the planet other than the 8 on the boat, - e v e r y o n e - was destroyed. The saints are all in eternal bodies, neither male nor female. There will be no one left to repopulate for the "1000 yrs". The 1000yr reign is now; the Church Age.
There has to be a reason why I can't listen n to you 3 more than just a few minutes. What a jacked up discernment of specific passage. Satan is bound up and his power is limited?????? On what planet are you living. The Lord's prayer THY Kingdom COME On EARTH as it is in HEAVEN That certainly has NOT happened yet. NOTHING.happening now is a kin to what it's like in heaven
@@boldbeliever52 I know you're serious, and concerned for the word of God; you want to guard that Word. Good. Revelation is not written chronologically from Rev 4 straight through Rev 22. You think that everything in Rev 20, is chronologically later than Rev 12. But that's not the case. In Rev12, Satan was cast out of heaven. (Satan had not been cast out at the time of Eve; he left out on his own. And probably after deceiving Eve, 1/3 of the angels followed Satan) In Rev 20.1, an angel came down and bound satan. That was in the time of Rev 12, right after Christ laid life down, defeating Satan, casting out of heaven. Because he is bound and cant deceive the nations, doesn't mean he has no power. In the time of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar, made a giant image to the dream that Daniel interpreted. And King N. said that everybody bow and worship it, and whoever won't worship, be put in fiery furnace. Satan had power at that time to deceive "the (gentile) nations", because "the nations" were not specially in God's hand. But during the Church Age, God has specifically limited Satan's ability to deceive the gentile nations, and millions on millions of the gentiles have been saved. YES. After God's Son hung on nails obeying his Father, YES, God did limit the ability of Satan to thwart the message of the gospel. Yes God allows Satan to try to put me in fear of stepping out, coming to Christ, and God uses satan to perfectly set the stage for my opportunity to get saved. If we are living 10 yrs longer, I think you will see the time when Satan is loosed. and you will no longer question the difference when Satan is bound and when he is loosed: it will be the worst tribulation ever, because of the all-encompassing scope of it: and whoever would not worship the image of the beast will be put to death. same as Nebuchadnezzar. 2 Thes. 2.3-8, Paul also, is talking about the time Satan is loosed. And, as in Rev 20.3, it is to be a short season: so it is in Mat.24.22.
Absolutely right. The New Testament repeatedly teaches that Jesus has been reigning since His resurrection (Matt 28:18, Ephesians 2:19-23, Col 1:12-13, Rev 1:5-6, etc.). That has to be taken into account when interpreting Revelation 20. We can't interpret Revelation 20 in such a way that contradicts these other scriptures.
@@boldbeliever52 Satan is bound "from deceiving the nations' (Greek 'Ethnos") in order for the Gospel to spread over all the earth. Gentiles and nations are synonymous with the 12 Tribes of Israel in Dispersion but regathered under the New Covenant. These are the Protestant Christian nations of the world. He is then loosed at the end of this Hospel Age to go out to "DECEIVE THE NATIONS" ONCE MORE. This is what we are witnessing presently.
At around 41 mins they're talking about "spiritual resurrection", suggesting that the first resurrection is "spiritual. However the Bible uses the word resurrection 41 times but excluding 2 times in revelation 20:5-6 as these are the verses in question, the other 39 ALL speak of physical resurrection, therefore we have to allow the Scriptures to speak for themselves. When the Bible uses the term Resurrection it is ALWAYS refers to physical resurrection. The bible doesnt speak of spiritual resurrection.
I think this is a fair point. At the same time I think there can be exceptions to the general rule. But, in my view the first resurrection itself refers to the physical bodily resurrection of Christ (Acts 26:23, 1 Cor 15:20) and we all spiritually have part in His resurrection (Eph 2:4-6, Romans 6, Col 2:12-13).
So when did the millennium kingdom begin-952 A.D. at the earliest? [2023 (the time of this video) -1,000 years -1 year minimum (for good measure, to include these speakers’ study) -70 years (my estimate for the oldest gentleman on the right’s max age)]
Good discussion. I heard someone say that where it says "lived and reigned" in verse 4 of Revelation 20, the greek actually says lived on instead of just "lived". Jesus said that whoever believes in Him shall never die. What say you?
These are my notes from listening to Steve Gregg's teaching on this topic: 4. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years i. The Greek word for "came to life" in the tense found here is zao(pronounced zah-o), which can mean "continued to live" or "came to life" as in began to live. "zao" is in the aorist verb tense, meaning the condition is past and continues to be that condition. So either they started living or continued living. ii. "came to life" is the verb tense that supports the premillenial/Dispensational view. "continued to live" is supports the amillenial/postmillenial view. iii. John 5:25 25. "“Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live." a) Believers are already spiritually raised. Since this is the spirit realm, "continued to live" is more correct than "came to life". We will do a further word study below. iv. Matthew 22:32 32. "‘I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living(zao).”" a) Jesus said He is the God that is of those who are saved and continue to live. b) Jesus is saying that the intermediate state of old testament saints (not pergatory). c) This part of Revelation is telling us Christians who die continue to live and reign with Christ, and when absent from the body, are present with the Lord. v. The translation "came to life" indicates resurrection. a) Otherwise, "continued to live" is seen as the would of martyrs reigning with Christ in heaven as they wait the day for their resurrection in glorified bodies. vi. Translations with "they came to life and reigned" LSB, NLT, NIV, CSB, ESV, NASB vii. Translations with "they lived and reigned" KJV, NKJV a) Note that the KJV translators were Amillenialists. viii. This word is found several other times in revelation. a) Means "already living and continuing to live", "continued to live" Rev 1:18 Jesus is called "the living(zao) one". He is "alive(zao) forever" Rev 3:1 "you have a name that you are alive(zao), but you are dead. Rev 4:9 "to Him who lives(zao) forever and ever," Rev 4:10 "will worship Him who lives(zao) forever" Rev 7:2 "the living(zao) God" Rev 10:6 "Him who lives(zao) forever" Rev 15:7 "wrath of God, who lives(zao) forever" Rev 19:20 "were thrown alive(zao) into the lake of fire" b) There are only 2 verses where it could possibly be came to life Rev 2:8 Jesus was dead and has "come to life(zao)" Rev 13:14 "to the beast who had the wound of the sword and "continued to live(zao)" I. Jesus died and came back to life. (Christ was dead and did come to life) The beast was wounded, and continued to live. (it didn't die - had 6 other perfectly - working heads) c) That leaves with Christ's resurrection as the only case where you see a resurrection outside of Chapter 20. d) If you are premil, "came to life" is what you take, even though premil is still inconsistent with who gets raised when. ix. Why should it read "continued to live" instead of "came to life"? a) John saw the souls of those who were martyred. This was not on earth, because when the believer is absent from the body, they are present with the Lord, where He is, in heaven. b) If this was a resurrection, John would more likely see their bodies, not their souls. I. He who believes in Jesus has already passed from death to life. The death of the martyrs did not end their lives. They lived on.
John could also be dividing Ezekiel's Prophecy prior to and after a Millennial Kingdom...or Ezekiel also has time relevant events in mind and John is more specifically speaking of the end. :/ *shrugs*
Brilliantly biblical, some new revelation to me. Absolute proof Satan is loosed at the 5th Trumpet BEFORE Jesus Returns, not 1000 years after Jesus Returns. Revelation 9:1-2 KJV And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. [2] And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
Why did you stop quoting at verse 2? Keep quoting to see who is released, hint: its not the devil! The devil is the one who empowers the BEAST and gives him his power Rev 13:2
@@tentmaker2254 Devil bound for 1000 years, loosed, then thrown into the lake of fire at His Second Coming, not 1000 years after He comes. 2 Thessalonians 2:8 KJV And then shall *_that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:_* Revelation 20:2-3,7-10 KJV And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, *_and bound him a thousand years,_* [3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, *_that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled:_* and after that he must be *_loosed a little season._* [7] And *_when the thousand years are expired,_* Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, [8] And *_shall go out to deceive the nations_* which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, *_to gather them together to battle:_* the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. [9] And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: *_and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them._* [10] *_And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire_* and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night *_for ever and ever._*
@The Age to Come You are spot on my friend. I've noticed these men seem to mostly avoid Revelations when reading and discussing these. I wonder why that might be? Could it be that (obviously) Revelations disproves their stance on this topic as well as their view on tribulation? All the scripture I've found points to pretrib rapture and premillennial tribulation, post tribulation millennial reign. These guys seem to cherry pick the Bible instead of reading it in its totality.
@@tentmaker2254 11 They have as king over them, the angel of the abyss; his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in the Greek he has the name Apollyon. New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update (La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation, 1995), Re 9:11. Are you saying this is not Satan being referenced here? The New Topical Textbook lists Abaddon and Apollyon as names of Satan. The Bible Knowledge Commentary does the same.
Jewish wedding symbolism: (A gospel within the gospel) "Let not your heart be troubled: you believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house (in heaven) are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I WILL COME AGAIN, and receive you unto myself; *that where I am* there (in heaven) you may be also. And where I go you know, and the way you know." Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? Jesus saith unto him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: *no man* comes unto the Father (who art in heaven), *but* by me." {John 14:1-6} --The time of the wedding was determined by the bridegroom's father and at the time determined by the father the bridegroom would fetch his bride and bring her back to his place prepared for them at his father's house. And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. {Revelation 8:1} But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men {2 Peter 3:7} (Jer 4:23-28, Zeph 3:6) .... Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. {2 Peter 3:13} --The resurrected saints will enter in the gates of heaven into the new Jerusalem, that has been prepared for us *in heaven* Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. {Revelation 22:14} (But *the rest of the dead* lived not again until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection. {Revelation 20:5} ^ No man left alive on earth, after Jesus Christ comes again. Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus will raise up us also by Jesus, and will present us with you (in heaven). {2 Corinthians 4:14} To the end [objective] he may establish your hearts unblameable in holiness *before* God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ *with all his saints* {1 Thessalonians 3:13} (The time of the wedding feast) "But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you IN MY FATHER'S KINGDOM." {Matthew 26:29} --The saints, after the thousand years (tabernacle) in heaven, the saints of God will descend with the Father and the Son and the host of heaven, with the new city and we will be spectators in our Creator's new six day creation of the new heavens and of the new earth. (Rev 21:1, Is 66:22-23, Zach 8:3, 14:4) And the goat (scapegoat) will bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land NOT INHABITED: and he will release the goat in the wilderness. {Leviticus 16:22} And when the thousand years are expired, satan (the literal Azazel the scapegoat) will be loosed out of his prison, (also chains of circumstance.) (The resurrection of the condemnation.) And will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, GOG and MAGOG, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and DEVOURED them. {Revelation 20:7-9} And death and hell (hades the grave) where cast into the lake of fire, *this is the second death* {Revelation 20:14} And the saints will sing; O death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your victory? {1 Corinthians 15:55} --Like the children of Israel, the saints will have a dispensation (time) of tabernacle with God the Father and with his Son, our Lord Jesus Christ in heaven, before the inheritance (and our eternal kingdom, and home in the country) is given to the saints. This being the new heavens and the new earth, that the nation of Israel symbolized in the type of the end time greater reality. These [The Patriarchs] all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed THAT THEY WERE STRANGERS AND PILGRIMS ON THE EARTH. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, THAT IS AN HEAVENLY: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: *for he hath prepared for them a city* {Romans 11:13-16} Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for GREAT IS YOUR REWARD IN HEAVEN: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. {Matthew 5:12} For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, *we have a building of God* an house not made with hands, eternal *in the heavens* {2 Corinthians 5:1}
I looked on blue letter bible and couldn't find KJV with "the battle". Is there an older KJV version that has it? The Greek interlinear in Blue Letter Bible and even other sites don't have the "ho" in front of Polemas in Revelation 20. Anyone know why?
@@joshuat7498 Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. "to battle" Revelation 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. "the battle" same thing... now... anytime somebody points to a foreign language... they reveal themselves as somebody that does not believe the Bible they hold in their hands. and if you don't believe the Bible you hold in your hands.. you ought not to expect to understand the Bible. let me encourage you to read the King James Bible... it is the pure word of God in the English language... the word of God comes from heaven... not from dead languages. Psalm 119:89 For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven. also, let me say... when Satan is released.. we, that are saved, are up in the air. this is supported all throughout the Bible... from Genesis to Revelation. camp of the saints = Galatians 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. God ain't gonna rain down fire on those of us that are saved.. as these gentlemen, in the video, suggest.
@@joshuat7498 The KJV does indeed say "the battle" in Rev 16:14. However, it is the Greek word Polemas not what they said it is. They also said it is only in Revelation 3 times which is false, as it is used 9 times in Revelation. I posted all the verses it is used in but you use the same site I do, the Blue Letter Bible, I love that site BTW and you can see yourself where it is used.
Another problem with A Mill is when do the proponents of it's teaching believe the kingdom of Israel referred to in Acts 1:6-7 will happen? You see, that is why there is a literal 1000 year reign.
Millennial Puzzle: My view of the Millennium agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thess. 1:7-10, when Paul said Christ returns in "flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not obey the Gospel. The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20. My view agrees with what Peter said in 2 Peter 3:10-13, when Peter said this earth is going to burn and "dissolve" when He comes as a thief on the day of the Lord. The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20. My view agrees with what Paul said in 2 Tim. 4:1, when Paul said both the living and the dead will be judged at His appearing. The time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others is found in Rev. 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible. (This verse also proves the Book of Rev. is not in chronological order.) The judgment of the dead is also found at the end of Rev. chapter 20. My view agrees with what Jesus said in Matt. 25:31-46, where He described the judgment of the sheep and goats, which leaves no mortals alive on the planet at the end of the passage. My view agrees with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness. My view agrees with what John recorded in Rev. 9:1-2, when an angel comes down from heaven with a key to unlock the pit. Are there wicked angels already in the pit in Rev. 9:11? John recorded angels already "bound" in Rev. 9:14. The beast "ascends" out of the pit in Rev. chapter 11, which means the beast was in the pit before that time. Take all of the above and compare it to the symbolic language found in Rev. chapter 20 and you will have the truth.
The Words of the book of prophecy guide us as we don't add to it or take away from it. Revelation 20:5 NKJV - "But *the rest of the dead DID NOT LIVE AGAIN UNTIL the thousand years were FINISHED.* This is the first resurrection." Both eternal judgments and resurrections are clearly 1000 years apart. Judgment must begin at the house of God. In Matt. 25, the kingdom of heaven is like... The blessed and holy live again & reign with Christ 1000 years (Rev. 20:6), while *the REST don't live again UNTIL the thousand years were FINISHED.* Scripture doesn't say NO MORTALS are alive at that point (Isa. 24:6). There are a FEW mortal men left. Yes, four angels are locked in chains of darkness, and at the Euphrates, but that doesn't make those four = the dragon or beast.
Yehovah is a consuming fire (Heb. 12:28). Deuteronomy 4:24 KJV - "For *the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God."* Yehovah *descended in FIRE,* and the sight of His glory *gets described* as FIRE* too. Exodus 19:18 KJV - "And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because *the LORD descended upon it in FIRE:* and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly." Exodus 24:15-17 KJV - "And Moses went up into the mount, and a cloud covered the mount. And *the GLORY of the LORD abode upon mount Sinai,* and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud. And *the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring FIRE* on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel." Exodus 40:38 KJV - "For the cloud of the LORD was upon the tabernacle by day, and *FIRE* was on it by night, in the sight of all the house of Israel, throughout all their journeys." Deuteronomy 4:36 KJV - "Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee *HIS GREAT FIRE;* and thou heardest his words *out of the midst of the FIRE."* Deuteronomy 5:24 KJV - "And ye said, Behold, *the LORD our God hath shewed us his glory and his greatness,* and we have heard his voice out of the midst of the *FIRE:* we have seen this day that God doth talk with man, and he liveth." Deuteronomy 18:16 KJV - "According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, *neither let me see this GREAT FIRE any more, that I die not."* Eze 1:26-28 KJV - "And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it. 27 And I saw as the colour of amber, *as the appearance of FIRE round about within it,* from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, *I saw as it were the appearance of FIRE, and it had brightness round about.* 28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. *This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD.* And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake."
When His feet are on the mountain, the WICKED no more pass through Israel, & are CUT OFF (killed), and *the FURY of the LORD gets described like FIRE.* Nah 1:1-12 KJV - "The burden of Nineveh. The book of the vision of Nahum the Elkoshite. 2 *God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is FURIOUS; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.* 3 The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet. 4 He rebuketh the sea, and maketh it dry, and drieth up all the rivers: Bashan languisheth, and Carmel, and the flower of Lebanon languisheth. 5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein. 6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? *HIS FURY is poured out like FIRE,* and the rocks are thrown down by him. 7 The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him. 8 But with an overrunning flood he will make an utter end of the place thereof, and darkness shall pursue his enemies. 9 What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: AFFLICTION shall NOT rise up the second time. 10 For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, *they shall be devoured as STUBBLE fully dry.* 11 There is one come out of thee, that imagineth evil AGAINST the LORD, a wicked counsellor. 12 Thus saith the LORD; Though they be quiet, and likewise many, *yet thus shall they be cut down, when he shall pass through.* Though I have afflicted thee, I will afflict thee no more." The Messiah returns in bodily form, but in the glory of His Father, with his holy angels. Mark 8:38 KJV - "Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, *when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels."* Matthew 16:27 NKJV - *“For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels,* and then He will reward each according to his works." Remember, even Christ's eyes were as flames of fire (Rev. 1:14). Why? Isaiah 34:2 KJV - "For *the indignation of the LORD is upon ALL NATIONS,* AND *HIS FURY upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter."* The presence, glory, and fury of the LORD like FIRE does affact the creation. As He pours out vengeance. 2Thessalonians 1:6-8 ESV - "since indeed *God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you,* and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, WHEN the Lord Jesus is revealed FROM heaven WITH his mighty angels IN FLAMING FIRE, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus."
@@walkinthelight1748 Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation: (book not in chronological order ) Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse. Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb. Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present? The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ. He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18. The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15. The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13. He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet? He comes on a horse in chapter 19. Chapter 20? Does He come with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1? (The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.) There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46. Why does an angel come down from heaven with a key to unlock the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2, if the pit was not already locked before that time? Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels were previously bound in some manner. Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book. The principle of "Recapitulation" means there are multiple visions of His return.
@@SpotterVideo The Word of God is truth. Rev. 20 described the *FIRST resurrection (of the just) unto eternal life.* If the Rev. 11, two witnesses are last in faith to die, then they'd be first to be resurrected (Matt. 20:16). It's the same resurrection of those that are His, AT HIS COMING (1Cor. 15:23). The Revelation of Jesus Christ is the book of prophecy (Rev. 22:18-19), not history. We can see how Michael stands up for up for Daniel's people in Daniel chapter 12, correlating with revelations 12 which is about a future event. Recapitulation is a summary or retelling of an event. Revelation contains recapitulation as it repeatedly talks about the last 42 months of the age, and the accompanying events up through Christ's coming, from different vantage points. Christ's ONE coming is His GLORIOUS APPEARING (Titus 2:13; Matt. 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27; Luke 21:25-27). It's *NOT multiple comings.*
What is most stunning about the fact that there are multiple hotly debated views is that the church comprised of Holy Spirit filled Christ followers can't tell whether or not Jesus is here reigning.....you'd think it would be pretty obvious.
Good point. Born again believers have several views on eschatology. These views are opposed to one another. People will say that we can just agree to disagree. But it is sobering to acknowledge the fact that these several views cannot all be true. They could all be false, or one of them could be true. That means there are at least 3 views that are not true. We know that the Holy Spirit does not lead anyone into error. So born again believers can apparently be able to quench or resist the Holy Spirit and follow after their own imaginations or possibly doctrines of demons. Getting back to your point, you'd think we could at least all agree on whether He has come and is ruling or not! Matthew 24 as well as many other scriptures make it clear that ALL OF CREATION will know when Christ comes.
32:00 the 2nd biggest lie satan ever told humanity is that you could sell your soul. you cannot sell something that doesn't belong to you in the first place.
1 Thessalonians 4 v 16 . The dead in Christ shall rise. This is the physical first resurrection of Revelation 20 v 5 . Scripture does not oppose itself.
I go between Amill and post-mill. Jesus taught the Kingdom is within us, once you become a believer. So that makes the Kingdom on earth being the temple in us. Jesus taught the Lord’s prayer - thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.. so does that mean in us / invisible or visible on earth ? Jesus taught on the kingdom of heaven and God all the time. I think it goes a lot deeper than we think. As far as the church growing and taking over the earth at the end of this age could be a big possibility then Satan is released and pours out his wrath upon God’s people then he gathers the battle to fight Jesus when he returns and we are gathered unto him.
It will not be the same battle. Well, from where did those armies come in Rev. 20:8-9? Hey. Wake up. The text says that one thousand years has elapsed! That millenium has been another dispensational test of mankind. Even under ideal conditions, many men have waited for their opportunity to rebel. This explains this dispensational distinctive, that during this administrative test there has been no devil or demons to deceive. Yet the evil heart of man has not loved God, despite the paradise setting.
@@rickytavilla4259 if we do the math from Adam and Eve. And use 2 Peter 3: 8-9 a day is a thousand years., as a thousand years is a day. We are in the 6th millennium now.
The nations that satan gathers Rev 20:7 after the millennium are those people who were on the earth during the millennium who still rejected Christ.Zecheriah 14 says those who came against Jerusalem must celebrate (as a memorial) the feast of tabernacles or they will be subject to the plague.
You guys are massively confused. Go back and do more home work on the three battles: Gog-Magog (Ezekiel 38/39), Armageddon, and the final battle at the end of the Millennium. Three completely different events in terms of participants, leader, disposal of enemy dead, what happened after the battle, etc. Create a spreadsheet that covers each and every attribute of the battles and you will conclude that they are distinct. They are NOT one battle, but three.
John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times. The church rapture is at judgement day It's all there in Revelation 20 Revelation 21 New earth no more days
All perspectives appear to be supported by some suppositions I have not found addressed or resolved by proponents of either of the views. Assuming the millennium is a literal 1000 years: Will Jesus Christ reign automatically terminate at the end of the period? If so, who then is His successor? Will Christ Jesus abdicate? If so, who rules in His place? Rein in Heaven or on Earth? Our Bible states Jesus Christ has been given ALL authority and ALL power in Heaven AND Earth. Wouldn’t that appear to cover all territories? Wouldn’t it be rather arrogant for anyone to presume to limit and confine Christ Jesus kingdom ruling boundaries to fit into our personal paradigm to suit our purposes? Understanding that the Bible is written for timeless instructions for the redemption of all of Humanity. Providing REAL life examples for all to live by throughout the redemption period to consummation of all things. This is the basis for Ecclesiastes 1:9 understanding the cyclical nature of humanity. God does not change. Solomon in his wisdom Ecclesiastes 3 tells humanity a very real truism of the Beast within all MEN without God. Unfortunately, Solomon knew this personally as the 666 is tied to him in the books of the Kings and Chronicles. Nebuchadnezzar having full knowledge of the God of Israel was physically made the beast he was in his arrogance and repented his apostasy in writing Daniel 4. Do any of the positions negate the finished work of Christ Jesus on the cross or the ultimate atonement completed for us in the Heavenly temple? Will any of the positions remove our responsibilities to keep our earthly temples(our bodies) abomination free (spotless) until Christ Jesus returns? Are you waiting until the very last minute possible to try a buy oil for your lamp? Be ready always…… I am a Prepper of the WORD HORD the Word Fill all closets and pantries with the oil of God You will endure You will not get weary Because the Word will anchor you, no blowing to and fro in the wind. Yes there is tribulation Always has and will be until His return How will you experience your tribulations? I unsure mine with Christ Jesus and I sleep in my armor 😊
I don't beleive in the 7 year tribulation. Still don't understand why people put a gap between the 69th and 70th week. God says there will be 70 weeks decreed about your people. He never mentions a gap.
There is a gap in Daniel between the 69th week and the 70th week. The Messiah is cut off after the 69th week. It doesn't say that He was cut off in the 70th week, but everyone but the Dispensationalist put His death in the 70th week, eventhough it isn't in Scripture that way. Is it just clumsy wording?
Because its written that way in the book of the Prophet Daniel concerning Israel as a nation (people kind; natural ones not spiritual Israel is the way the pre mills understand it)
The best material I have ever seen on this topic was by Vic Lockman. The text of Daniel mentions no gap. This is an invention of Chiliasts. Rather the " weeks" as blocks of us of lunar calendar years mark blocks of real time marking significant ebents. Therefore the passing of the 69th week into the 70th week marks the beginning of Christ's ministry. After the 69 weeks, that is, In the midst of the "70th week", He WAS CUT OFF OUT OF THE LAND OF THE LIVING and STRICKEN for the TRANSGRESSION of the PEOPLE (Isaiah 53:8). Not for His own sins was Christ (Messiah) the Prince CUT OFF but for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:1). And when he expired he cried "It is Finished" (John 19:30). The temple curtains were torn from top to bottom by unseen hands (Matt. 27:51). Thereby, having confirmed the Covenant with many, Christ made an end of "The SACRIFICE and OBLATION" by his death (Daniel 9:27). Thereby he signified that the WAY was NOW OPEN and the Old Covenant OBSOLETE (Hebrews 8:13, 9:1; Hebrews 10:19, 20). In the midst of the 70th Week Christ was cut off, but following his resurrection he continued to confirm the New Covenant with the Jewish nation for 3 ½ years. We see this pattern enacted in the book of Acts which depicts the conversion of many Jews and their entrance into the church in the early period prior to the focus on the Gentiles being incorporated also into the same body in the later chapters of Acts.
@@bugsocsollie1694Nonsense! Don't you realise this is Hebrew idiom! We have a clear example of the same idiom used in Hosea 6:2. If you overthrow the idiom in Hosea 6:2 you overthrow the very Resurrection of Christ ! AFTER TWO DAYS will he revive us: IN THE THIRD DAY he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. (Hosea 6:2) AFTER TWO DAYS and IN THE THIRD DAY are really one and the same concept. It is just an example of Hebrew parallelism. We read in Isaiah Thy dead men shall live, TOGETHER WITH MY DEAD BODY SHALL THEY ARISE. (Isaiah 26:19) This, together with Hosea 6:2 is of course a reference to the first resurrection (John 5:25; Revelation 20:6) in which believers are reborn in Christ. And Hosea 6:2 along with Isaiah 26:19 form the basis for Paul's entire theology of UNION with Christ through Baptism in Romans 6:3-12 and Colossians 2:11-13; 3:1-3; Galatians 2:20). No, Christ the Prince was cut off AFTER the 69th Week and in the midst of the 70th week he accomplished the sacrifice of himself ending the Old Covenant sacrifices before God for ever. So it is in Daniel 9:26, 27. God also signified this when he caused the temple Veil to be torn from top to bottom ! (Matthew 27:51). Just like their "stitched up veil", the sacrifices the unbelieving Jews continued were a self chosen work, an abomination. Even the Philistines had more sense..When their pointless idol dragon fell prostrated and broken in front of the Ark of the Covenant they realised the futility of their self chosen god (1 Samuel 5:3-10). But the unbelieving Jew continuing in their rejection of Christ the Prince and his one offering for sin which ended once for all the sacrifice and the oblation, took upon themselves their continuation in self chosen "offerings" until God took away their house, their temple, their place and their nation. (Matthew 23:38; Matthew 24; John 11:48)
@@trulyso734It's very simple Hebrew idiom. We have another example of this in Hosea 6:2. After 2 days and and in the third day are two ways of saying the same thing,of course. After the 69 weeks and more specifically in the 70th week (more specifically in midst of the 70th week) are two ways of saying the same thing, using Hebrew idiom.
So when the Lord descends and the dead in Christ are raised and we which are alive and remain are caught up to meet the Lord in the air. Why are we caught up to come right back down? Paul says this is the day of the Lord
It was traditional to go out of the City gates and escort a dignitary back in. Even Jesus was escorted through the gates into Jerusalem and I bet if someone comes to your house for dinner, you will go out of your front door and escort them back in!
Why? Because that is what the text says! Tentmaker and Candy are exactly right! The 2nd coming of our Lord is about Him, not us! The "harpazo" (rapture) is a "one-time" event. How can the Lord come "with 10,0000s of His saints" (Jude 14) if we who "are still alive and remain" are not "caught up?" The "requirement" that Christians have to live in heaven with our Lord for a certain time period before He returns is an artificial construct. Remember the key here, which many "willingly" fail to see: The 2nd coming AND the rapture are both tied in to all believers receiving their resurrected bodies!!! NONE of those who have died, from Adam till the "moment" of the 2nd Coming have glorified, immortal, bodies like our Lord's. They are waiting to "be clothed" (2 Cor. 5:1-6). Read 1 Cor. 15:20-24. The "order" of resurrection is laid out, pure and simple.
Rev. 20:7: "Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from prison." It's a sequence, with this event coming after the thousand years. You're making a case for Ch. 19 and 20 being the same without discussing the sequence of before and after the thousand years......?
I think we need to be very careful regarding our representation of others. To say that Doug Wilson, and Moscow is about it, as far as Post-Mil goes, or that they’re essentially the pillars of such a belief, is far from the truth. Take apologia church for example and their Ministry (Arizona). It’s as if he wanted to speak so fast to be heard, that he wasn’t carefully cross examining the other parties. In Christ, Another AMIL believer
And when the thousand years are expired, satan shall be LOOSED out of his prison......" Based on the definition of the word "loosed", satan will be destroyed.
A Christian is still under the rule of Christ without believing in an A Mill view. But there will be a literal 1000 year reign of Christ. Re: the resurrection/rapture has to be physical because it's a redemption of our bodies a changing in the twinkling of the eye. 1 Cor 15.
What do you do with Revelation 20:4?? Those who will rule and reign with Christ for 1000 years will be those who refused the mark and did not worship the beast or his image. Obviously this has to be those who lived through the great tribulation and had the opportunity to deny those things mentioned.
Also I believe when they're talking about at the end Revelation chapter 19 and 20. They think it's the same battle. Well here's why I don't think it is. He was asking who are these people in Revelation 20 if everybody was destroyed that a post Christ in Revelation chapter 19. My thought on this is this. It happens at the same time or about when the unsaved dead are raised. That means all the unsaved. I suspect that whatever period of time go is going on there that Satan gathers them together the unsaved and deceives them again and directs them to attack us the believer who are in Jerusalem and then God destroys them and the final judgment is complete. That to me answers that question. Which does not support all millennials. It's just simply the unsaved raised and then Satan deceived them to attack Jerusalem with us there. I'm open if I can be shown anything different. Love in Christ Jesus. Pastor Duane and Chico Pup
I'm no theologian but what you say seems 100% spot on. It's fully supported by all the main passages of Zechariah 14 (millennial reign) and Ezekiel 38-39 (Gog-Magog happening when Israel dwells safely ie her foes are long gone for 1000 years). Plus all I've read in OT prophets suggests an earthly regathering of Israel and spiritual revival and triumph, but that process could take many years. Just as it took over 800 years from Isaiah to the exiles, partial return and final fall & scattering.
The word BATTLE or The Battle in Revelation in the Greek is: polemos and it actually occurs 9 times in Revelation not 3. Here are the verses that Strong's # G4171 is used in Revelation. Rev 9:7, 9:9, 11:7, 12:7, 12:17, 13:7, 16:14, 19:19, and 20:8. It means: πόλεμος pólemos, pol'-em-os; from πέλομαι pélomai (to bustle); warfare (literally or figuratively; a single encounter or a series):-battle, fight, war.
1 cor 15:23 clearly states that we are resurrected at the parousia, and strongly suggest that we will be raised in like-manner Christ was raised... and Christ was raised with a physical body... If you do a study of the parousia, it clearly points to a prewrath event...
Heads being chopped off can be symbolic of you giving up your own will for Jesus. Jesus is the Head of the church, we give up our own fleshly desires to follow Him. He is our head. So essentially we chop our own heads off to let Jesus lead us.
Note John 5v24 those who believe have everlasting life and are NOT condemned.Note 5v29 "..resurrection of life..." FIRST RESURRECTION . And john also continues "... done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation". This is the coming to life after the 1000 years and John calls it the SECOND DEATH.
Read Zachariah chapter 14. It explains what will happen during the Millennium! In Heaven there are no Nations. Revolution 12:5, 19:15 Great presentation!
The man in the middle is talking as if all of us will die. So your view that we have the FIRST death in this life does not hold for those who Jesus will find living or alive. They will not taste death. Thats why its first resurrection not first death cause truly a true believer does not die. God is a God of the living. The rest if the believers are asleep.
The interesting thing with Revelation 20 that it parallels with Daniel 7, note that it is the first time the thrones are in place for judgement and then speaks of resurrection of the Saints to poses the kingdom. Question why is there no A-millennium mentioned by Christians in the first 300 years before Augustine. I note that the only spiritualising of the millennium came from a first century Gnostic by the name of Cerinthus. They are not to be heard who assure themselves that there is to be an earthly reign of a thousand years. They think like the heretic Cerinthus. For the kingdom of Christ is already eternal in the saints-even though the glory of the saints shall be manifested after the resurrection. Victorinus (c. 280, W), 7.360; see also 5.147.
This is not a quote from St. Victorinus. It is the rewrite by St. Jerome (4th century) who purposely changed it to take out the millennialism. St. Victorinus was premillennial. I can show you where to find the true commentary by St. Victorinus if you wish. God bless
@@st.christopher4854 reading the rest of the Church Fathers, concur that the idea of a spiritual resurrection goes back to 2Timothy 2:18 and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4. Putting into the context of this extract, VICTORINUS points out the vain superstitions of the teachings of a Gnostic heretic by the name of Cerinthus, his teachings align with the Sadducees in a denial of a future resurrection of the dead, reigning with Christ on a regenerated earth. The epicentre of these heretical teachings started in 2 Timothy 2: vs 18 and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4. Within these heretical beliefs, we see A-millennial beliefs being presented, in saying that we are living in the Millennium now without a physical reign of Christ and on the other hand we also have a Pre-tribulation rapture happening before the appearance of the antichrist. This primitive heretical eschatological view is the bedrock of all the modern eschatological beliefs, in that their beliefs have their roots framed around Augustinian teachings and linked to the denial of a resurrection of the dead being fulfilled here on the earth.
@@tentmaker2254 Cerinthus was the first Gnostic heretic to spiritualise the millennium and to deny Christ to rule physically on the earth placing the eternal reign of Christ in the believers. He aligns with the Sadducees and Gnostics in Paul’s encounter with them in 1 Corinthians 15; 2Timothy 2:18 and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4.
As Doug Wilson says, we may very well still be in the EARLY church. Christ may not come back for another 10,000 years - or 50,000 years....and by then, the world may be truly transformed by the gospel. The LAST enemy to be defeated is death. It may take many centuries to defeat the other enemies.
Considering the signs of the times right now, and considering God's dealings with previous examples ... Adam, Noah, tower of Babel, Israel, and now the church age of 2,000 years, it's very improbable we will go another 10,000 or 50,000 years. We are told 6,000 years would elapse from Adam and God would fulfill his plan ... followed by a millennial sabbath rest (the seventh day). We are at about 6,000 years from Adam now.
I’m with Christopher, the flood got only 120 years because that is how long it took Noah to build the Ark,once the judgment came and Sodom was destroyed in one day. Iniquity is increasing too rapidly today and we have the Ark today in Jesus Christ, so the end is at hand. God says, there will be a great falling away, it is so hard to stay focus on your own salvation because of all the enemy throw at us, but those who endure to the end will be saved.
"The rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished..." Rev 20:5 indicates that the dead are separated into two parts; those that are resurrected first and "the rest"; this means you can't spiritualize one part and not the other. "live" means the same for the 1st and the 2nd, so there's a seperation by a thousand years for these two resurrections. Nice try, but sorry to say, you're incorrect. Still my gratitude for your hard work and love for the truth! Blessings in Jesus's
There is no spiritual resurrection When Jesus comes for the second time , Why cause all eyes shall see him including those who pierced him. Revelation 1v7 .
Postmillennialism is much more broadly believed than just Doug Wilson. It’s just not as obvious in American Evangelical Christian culture because the major Christian book publishers belong to premill denominations and it’s the premills who make the movies.
Here is your stumblingblock in decernment of these things. “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” {John 5:29} And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, *both* of *the just and unjust* {Acts 24:15} *But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished* This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. {Revelation 20:5-6} And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and ("""a thousand years""") some to shame and everlasting contempt. {Daniel 12:2} And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha *into ashes* condemned them with an overthrow, making them *an ensample* unto those that after should live ungodly; {2 Peter 2:6} Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are *set forth for an example* suffering the vengeance of *eternal fire* {Jude 1:7} (Sodom is not still burning, so it is not the fire / punishment that is eternal, but rather the consequences thereof.) And ye [the saints] shall tread down the wicked; for *they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet* in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts. {Malachi 4:3} Thou [satan] hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and *I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth* in the sight of all them that behold thee. {Ezekiel 28:18} Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such *the second death* hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. {Revelation 20:6} And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. *This is the second death* And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. {Revelation 20:14-15} What do you imagine against the LORD? He will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time. {Nahum 1:9}
St. Irenaeus: "I did not write anything. I forgot to ask Polycarp about Daniel and Revelation and he forgot to ask St. John, and nobody else knows anything either. We'll, maybe in many centuries people will just kinda figure it out." Selah Actually, St. Irenaeus did write a lot concerning end times, also St. Hippolytus of Rome.
@@ziphos sorry, Irenaeus was premillennial and like dispensationalists sees the "one week" of Daniel 9:27 as future. Justin said there were different opinions about the future rebuilding of Jerusalem. According to Justin, ignorant Christians who did not understand the prophecies in Isaiah and Daniel doubted that Jerusalem would be rebuilt. Trypho asked about the rebuilding of Jerusalem. He did not ask about a millennium. Justin's info about the millennium was added information to the question at hand. DO NOT QUOTE IRENAEUS OR JUSTIN ... they do not give you the help you need. Finally, St. Justin was correct. Israel became a nation again on May 14, 1948. Jerusalem is rebuilt. And further, exactly 70 years to the day, on May 14, 2018, Jerusalem became the official capital city of Israel. Soon they will build the 3rd temple. Amillennialism is done.
@@ziphos Polycarp and Papias were premil as told to us by Eusebius. Also John the presbyter from the church at Ephesus and St. Aristion. St. Irenaeus was never amillennial. His disciple, St. Hyppolytus was premillennial. They were all from Smyrna. By 300 AD we have prolific premillennialists such as St. Lactantius and St. Cyril. Now with Israel and Jerusalem and the coming 3rd temple, there is no excuse.
@@ziphos Fragments from Papias, as told by Eusebius: "received the sayings of the apostles from those who accompanied them, and he moreover asserts that he heard in person Aristion and the presbyter John. Accordingly he mentions them frequently by name, and in his writings gives their traditions." "Amongst these he says that there will be a millennium after the resurrection from the dead, when the personal reign of Christ will be established on this earth. He moreover hands down, in his own writing, other narratives given by the previously mentioned Aristion of the Lord's sayings, and the traditions of the presbyter John." "Ecclesiastical History" 3.39.7-16
@@ziphos St. Hippolytus was indeed premillenial. From his commentary On Daniel "For the people of the Hebrews shall see Him in human form, as He appeared to them when He came by the holy Virgin in the flesh, and as they crucified Him. And He will show them the prints of the nails in His hands and feet, and His side pierced with the spear, and His head crowned with thorns, and His honourable cross. And once for all shall the people of the Hebrews" "And 6,000 years must needs be accomplished, in order that the Sabbath may come, the rest, the holy day "on which God rested from all His works." For the Sabbath is the type and emblem of the future kingdom of the saints, when they "shall reign with Christ," when He comes from heaven, as John says in his Apocalypse: for "a day with the Lord is as a thousand years."
Refreshing to see baptist brothers who are also amillennial. Seems like it's not too common, although I learned a ton from Dr Sam Waldron's eschatology class online (who is a baptist as well).
It's easy to see way the pre-tribulation rapture is popular. It promises no one will suffer. Aristotle pointed out in his writing on rhetoric that people respond to pain/pleasure. Modern science confirms that opinion of Aristotle. People will accept the argument that promises the least pain and suffering, regardless if it's true or not.
@@stevelenores5637pretrib rapture is conforms to God's Word more than any other view out there. It seems to me that is because most Christians don't even realize the difference between Israel and the Body of Christ Church. They don't see the difference between Israel's Gospel of the Kingdom and Paul's Gospel of Grace for the Gentiles. They confuse the two and mix them, making a new Gospel that is not a Gospel. In that case, eschatology absolutely is a salvation issue. You can't be saved by believing THE Gospel of our salvation if you don't even know what it is.
@@bugsocsollie1694 I know what rapture is. It's Latin for caught up. It happens when the Jesus Christ returns (once not twice). Pretribulation rapture is unbiblical not premillennial rapture. It's why I can't subscribe to either Amillennialism or pretribulation-rapture. The Bible says what brings salvation and as far I know one's view on the apocalypse (the Greek word for revelation) is not a requirement. Now if you believe that a correct view of revelation is required for your salvation, then I would doubt that you understand salvation.
@@stevelenores5637 Christ already came and revealed many things to Paul, so to say He only comes back once is, well, missing a lot. What did He reveal to Paul? The pretrib rapture, for one. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 "...but this we say by the Word of the Lord....shall be caught up to meet the Lord in the air...." Jesus never said any such thing to Israel while He was on earth. It was something He reveals to Paul for the Body of Christ Church. You gotta rightly divide these things.
For the rest of our series on Revelation and eschatology, see here:
ruclips.net/p/PL4nNmjgYbRZ7bCKQsCUZ9mi6SWRzCFRXG
All of my life I have listened to some great Bible teachers, many of whom have a different view on end time theology (eschatology), and I too have my own thoughts, but if the truth be known, no one can be dogmatic about that which is yet to happen. Of course, we can imagine, speculate, presume and have an opinion on what how it will all pan out from our personal understanding of scripture, but the only thing we know for sure is that Jesus is coming and we must be ready!
I turned from Premillelianism to Amillenialism in five years ago after I studied the Bible carefully. Good job guys. God bless you.
Hopefully less then 5 years and you will end up at postmil :-)
How did you study the bible more carefully by allegorizing it when the Jews didn't allegorize?
“I studied the Bible carefully” Look at you go! Why didn’t I think of that?! Such a pointless statement. So do Premils and Postmils.
Premillennialism is far more biblical when you take revelation literally
If amillennialism is correct and the Devil is currently bound so that his influence is less now than it was prior to Christ’s death and resurrection, and the Saints are ruling, the question has to be asked: how come not only is there so much obvious evil prevalent in the world today, but it also continues to get demonstrably worse?
1 Peter 5:8 tells us to: Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. If the Devil is bound, how can he at the same time be walking about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour? It cannot be both at the same time.
If Satan is bound:
1. Why did Christ commission Paul to turn Jew and Gentile “from the power of Satan to God” (Acts 26:18)?
2. Why could Paul deliver the Corinthian fornicator to Satan (1 Corinthians 5:5)?
3. Why Satan can transform himself into “an angel of light” (2 Corinthians 11:14)?
4. Why Paul would warn the Ephesian believers not to “give place to the Devil” (Ephesians 4:27) and urge them and us today to “stand against the wiles of the Devil” (Ephesians 6:11)?
5. How could Satan still continually be able to accuse Christians before God and, with his angels, wage war in heaven against “Michael and his angels” and at last be cast out of heaven to earth (Revelation 12:7-10)
6. How could Satan hinder Paul coming to the church at Thessalonica (1 Thessalonians 2:18)?
7. Why would Paul be concerned that Satan was able to tempt the Thessalonians and render his labour in vain (1 Thessalonians 3:5)?
These questions demand amillennialism to stand up to biblical scrutiny and provide an answer. Sadly, the only answer I have received from amillennialists so far is there insistence that the Devil is currently bound, but is just on a long chain!
The reason WHY the Devil will be bound by God in the future is made clear in Revelation 20:3: And he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.
According to Revelation 20:3, the Devil will not be able to deceive the nations during the time he is bound. Therefore, if amillennialism is correct and the Devil is bound now, he should not currently be able to deceive the nations. Does any Christian really believe the Devil is not currently influencing and deceiving the nations? You only have to consider the following three titles that point to Satan’s
authority in this world:
“The ruler of this world” (John 12:31).
“The god of this age” (2 Corinthians 4:4).
“The prince of the power of the air” (Ephesians 2:2).
So according to amillennialism “the ruler of this world”, “the god of this age” and “the prince of the power of the air” is bound now and unable to deceive the nations!
1 John 5:19 tells us: And the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one. How could the whole world be “under the sway” (i.e. the “power” as other Bible versions translate it) of the Devil if he is currently unable to deceive the nations?
2 Corinthians 11:14 says that Satan transforms himself into “an angel of light”, which very clearly describes his ability and inclination to deceive. We have to ask if Satan is bound now and therefore unable to deceive the nations, who are “the nations” referred to in Revelation 20:3? Are they just the non-believers in the world? That cannot be the case, because Scripture is clear that Satan is the current ruler of this world and anyone not in Christ’s kingdom is (knowingly or not) deceived and part of Satan’s kingdom. As just one example, Paul states in Ephesians 2:2 that the Devil “now works in the sons of disobedience”.
Does “the nations” therefore refer to Christians? That cannot be the case either because believers are warned time and time again in the New Testament about the danger of being deceived. For example, Paul warned the church about being deceived in 2 Corinthians 11:3-4; 13-15 and Galatians 6:7. Paul exhorted believers to: Test all things; hold fast what is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21). Why would believers need to test all things if we cannot be deceived?
Paul warned: Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons (1 Timothy 4:1). It is absolutely clear that Christians can be deceived, and that a sign of Jesus’ Second Coming getting closer will be that believers will be deceived, and Satan is the cause of the deception. As it is clear that both believers and non-believers can currently be deceived, it is obvious that Revelation 20:3 is referring to a future event where the Devil will be bound and unable to deceive the nations. Therefore, we cannot currently be in the Millennium, as amillennialists today continue to claim.
Exactly. If the 1000 years has started and it started in 30AD after the crucifixion then it would have stopped in 1030.
I don't have time to respond to all of that so I'll just respond to points 1 and 5 for now.
As for Acts 26:18, that verse supports Amillennialism because Paul was commissioned to do something unprecedented before the New Testament era.He was told to preach to the Gentiles who were formerly "without God in the world" (Eph 2:11-13) to turn them from the power of Satan to the power of God.That was only possible because of Satan's power being restrained compared to what it was in Old Testament times.
As for point 5 regarding Satan accusing believers, you should know that he was cast out of heaven long ago after the resurrection of Christ. He was not able to accuse anyone after that which is why Paul, in Romans 8:33 indicated that no one can make any charge/accusation against God's chosen any longer because of what Jesus had accomplished. He said no one so that includes Satan.
@@ETube1971 I think you’re conflating Satan being cast OUT of heaven with him being cast INTO the abyss.
@@MisterN0b0dy Why do you think that? Do you have anything to say in response to what I said about him being cast out of heaven long ago? Can he, or anyone, accuse us before God today? Doesn't Romans 8:33 indicate that no one can make any charge/accusation against us anymore?
If you are non-dispensational, do not use the term "church age", because this term is non-biblical and was bred from dispensationalism. If you reject dispensationalism, there is 1 assembly, 1 church, to which we are grafted upon believing (Romans 11).
Kindly, which is the correct term instead
@@wilsonwaigwa520Age of Grace is often used I believe
Present age and age to come
Exactly Right. Together we are Israel, the Remnant.
The age of the New Jerusalem, as opposed to the Old Jerusalem which ended in 70AD, according to Rev. 19.
The millennium is a period of 1000 years of peace that Christian’s fight about.
Yep.
I’ve used a Scofield Study Bible for 40 years, and I’ve been a devout student of Dispensationalism, but now I realize I was blinded to the truth. Scofield and his teaching are fraudulent.
The following proves you are correct.
Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ?
(Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30)
The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations?
1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? (See Galatians 3:8)
2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ?
3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds?
4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh?
5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers?
6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"?
7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost?
8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.)
9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis?
10. Watch the RUclips video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church.
Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology.
Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:
“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.
Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.
John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated…
"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.”
John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.)
What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?
Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth?
Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups?
Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13?
Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?
WOW! Good on you for being willing to seek the truth instead of digging in you heals to defend an indefensible doctrine.
Dispensationalism is nonsense from beginning to end.
@@Over-for-now
Because what Scofield taught was not true!
Dispensationalism is a convoluted, unbiblical doctrine. Respectfully.
And HERE is where they go wrong in my humble opinion:
Dispensationalists claim that they interpret the bible "Literally" while others such as Amils interpret the bible "Spiritually."
But this dichotomy is in error.
The biblical dichotomy is Earthly/Natural vs Heavenly/Spiritual, *BOTH Literal*
Read 1 Corinthians 15:
Paul tells us that Adam was of the EARTH and Jesus is of Heaven.
Adam was a NATURAL man while Jesus is a SPIRITUAL man. Both are literal.
This is why the book of Hebrews is called the book of "Better" things and why the things in the OT were the earthly "shadows" while Jesus is the spiritual reality.
There was an earthly Israel
There is now a Spiritual Israel.
There was (is) an earthly Jerusalem (which is in bondage)
There is now a Heavenly/Spiritual Jerusalem "Who is the mother of us all"
We were BORN (spiritually) into Her!
Hebrews 12;22 tells us "You HAVE come to the heavenly Jerusalem" (not WILL come)
When you stop viewing scripture through the "Literal vs Spiritual" lense and you begin seeing scripture through the Earthly/Natural vs Heavenly/Spiritual lense,
the entire bible makes complete sense without having to make the bible teach two kingdoms, two peoples of god, two second comings, etc.
May I suggest that you read Ephesians 2 very carefully.
The Church IS founded upon earthly/natural ISRAEL.
The "Remnant" spoken of by Isaiah (1:9) and Paul (Romans 9:29)
THEY were of the faith of Abraham (Galatians 3) and the gentiles were grafted into THEM!
"What then? What the people of Israel (earthly/natural) sought so earnestly they *did not obtain*
*The elect among them* (Spiritual Israel) DID, but the others were hardened," Romans 11:7
@@Over-for-now
Sarah, this is not about being smart. This is about believing what the scripture actually teaches.
Dispensationalism has no foundation in scripture
Remember, many people believe many things that are not in scripture just ask the Mormons and the Jehovah’s Witnesses
Again, I suggest that you read Ephesians 2 until you understand who the church is
I would also ask you this very simple question
If Israel did not obtain what they sought for but the elect among them did what was it that they obtained?
What happened to the elect remnant of Israel? Did they disappear?
Parallel this verse with Romans 9 and the branches being cut off. Where were they cut off from and where will they be grafted back into?
The answer is the church! The people of God! The "Holy Nation" as Peter calls The Church.
The old testament Israel, who were the foundation of the church as Ephesians 2 says, were who the gentiles were grafted into and became a part of the covenant people.
The final remnant of earthly natural Israel will be grafted back into the church!
There is one Israel tree
There is one body
There is one house of God?
"But if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.” 1 Timothy 3:15.
Don’t allow pride to get in the way of understanding scripture.
@@Over-for-now
Sarah, Christ's complete work of salvatin has nothing to do with this issue. Not sure why you made this point.
I appreciate this discussion, and good points were being made. However - the man in the middle talks way too fast and, for me, is very difficult to endure. I had to quit this about halfway through for that reason.
I had the same feeling. He kept saying he had to be humble while saying why other viewpoints were wrong, yet he kept bringing up his points with a gotcha kind of attitude.
Didn't they agree that all view points have their strengths and challenges? I understand you can lean toward one viewpoints but the guy in the middle seems too assured and proud that he is 100% right and other are wrong.
We are seeing the wicked one at work today which tells me satan isn't bound, but we don't see the man of lawlessness yet.
Great topic! I was just looking into the thousands years of Christ and became puzzled about it. It will be interesting to hear the amillennian perspective.
Amil is also reigning now on Earth from Heaven.
Mathew 28:18 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
1Cor15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
Rev1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
-Kings of what? This is present tense.
Jesus rules on Earth, right now.
Who is the clay to ask what the potter is making? Life is a trial by fire. How can God judge the faithful, unless their faith is tried. What has always been said? That God always has a remnant.
If amil is correct, how do the children who have died aborted children who are not of age to accept Christ. Where do they get the chance to accept Jesus?
I personally believe pri millennium mid trib is the most logical position in Bible.
@@fundyden4771 Nobody “accepts” Jesus; he doesn’t need your help. All Gods elect are fore known, predetermined before the foundation of the earth and are predestined. You play no part and have no say of whom is a part of Gods elect. This has already been predetermined before the universe came to be.
Wow I been looking for someone that has the view I do and you all are SPOT ON, what I believe. Idk if the older of the men, is the guy in the middles grandpa, SORRY idk y'all names, but I thought I heard u call him pop or something i think, but just loved it and laughed along, when u started your joke on the saducees, and the elder gentlemen laughed, just loved his reaction.❤ I was about to say the joke along with ya😂I subscribed and I'll be watching y'all from now on ,God bless❤👃
This is where we human goes wrong. Notice your statement, "someone that has the view I do and you all are spot on". Have you considered that you might be wrong just as these folks are? If you want to know the true, the best way is to search the scripture for yourself without your preconceived ideas. For the scriptures says that God give grace to the humble and resist the proud. if you come before God with your preconceived ideas you are bringing your pride: I know better and I have the answer. That's what these fools are saying thus bringing others with opposing ideas to bring their higher. That is pride and God hear not these fools.
"We swear this is how we interpret the Bible. Please believe us!"
Yikes!
Yikes is right
Great discussion. You guys are thorough.
It's funny how he said "the one I disagree with the most is postmill." Then goes on to say the 14 out of 15 things that amill has in common with postmill. Lol
Scripture in Revelation 20v5 tells us " But the rest of the DEAD lived NOT UNTIL the THOUSAND years are finished. It means after 1000yrs they live.
Is it a literally 1000 years???
Great discussion topic that I've ALWAYS wondered about. As you were discussing the birds gathering and eating flesh, I remember Matt 24 and Luke 17..."where the dead bodies are the vultures(eagles) will gather". I didn't hear you connect those references. Should they be?
Amil has some good points. But I just can’t accept the first resurrection being spiritual.
Exactly. These souls referred to are the souls of people who had the testimony of Jesus and did not worship the antichrist or take his mark. They were beheaded. Their bodies died. Their souls then went to be with the Lord. It's absurd to say that their souls must now be "spiritually resurrected". This would imply that their souls are dead in trespasses and sins. They would basically have to be born again of the Spirit a second time in heaven. Furthermore we are told that after these souls are resurrected "they lived and reigned with Christ for 1000 years". And yet the Amill view is that both the 2nd coming battle and the battle at the end of the 1000 years are ONE And THE SAME BATTLE!. It shows how far they will go to twist this view into a mind bending pretzel. They will not let the scriptures conform their beliefs but attempt to reverse the process and conform the scriptures to their own imaginations. It's sad and very dangerous particularly when we read the powerful warnings against adding to or taking away from the book of Revelation in chapter 22.
@@robbymacklin yep.
Leaves lots of questions / unexplained reasoning around much of the book of Revelation. Turn this into a question back to them ?
Which bits they see as historic events, which bits as future coming events.
I'm a little late to the party. But maybe I'm just not listening well enough (I'm still learning and it's challenging doing so by myself as I'm kind of an awkward person socially) I suppose I'd be considered believing amillenial since the way I read it Jesus is the lamb who is worthy opening the seals in heaven currently? And with the battle it says Jesus will come down and slay the beast and throw them in the pit during a 1000 year millennial reign and I forget the reference but I believe I read it casts some of the surviving nations to the valleys and at the end of which when the beast comes out of the pit at the end of the 1000 years of millennial reign Jesus casts him the false profit and all the wicked into the lake of fire and the great white judgment takes place where all will be judged by their faith and acts. So I think that it's different battles not the same one. Does that sound fairly on point or is there something I'm missing?
The clear result of the “amillennial” view as originally espoused by Augustine is to dismiss nearly the entire Book of Revelation. And that hardly squares with the promise of Revelation 1:3 to bless those that “read aloud the words of this prophecy”.
The dead in Christ shall rise FIRST. This is the first resurrection.
The gentleman in the middle is trying so hard to prove his point by trying to give so much info HE IS CAUSING CONFUSION giving out all of this information you can't take it all in.
Try reducing the playback speed
In Rev 19:20 the beast and false prophet are in the lake of fire, and Rev 20:10 Satan is thrown in there, while the false prophet and beast are already present. I don't see any reason to disregard chapter 19 and 20 as chronological, and the fire coming down in 20 is not the same as the fire from the breath of Jesus's mouth. Yet, it's a good take, I appreciate the work and devotion! Thank you!
I totally agree. I'm not sure how coming to the wrong conclusion in these important matters is "a good take". I guess you are trying to be gracious and I agree that we must speak the truth in love, but coming to a false conclusion about the end of the age is very dangerous. How we look at this subject will shape our view of God and our hope in His immanent coming. Amillenialism does violence to the promises of God regarding us and regarding the nation and land of Israel. The one who is called Faithful and True will most definitely keep His promises.
First resurrection , I thess 4 and 1 cor 15
Occured in 70AD, many are making the mistake of calling the first a spiritual resurrection
@@jg1866 Source? When did it happen in AD70 lol
Excellent video!
If A Mill is true then Jesus should be physically here on earth now ruling from the throne of David in Jerusalem. Do we see him there now?
I dont need men to explain things to me. God himself showed me that 19 and 20 cannot be in any type of Chronological order. There are other examples. The fowls being called to the feast sounds very similarly to "where the carcass is there will the vultures be gathered." A mil is the most correct. Took me 20 years to get this revelation. Praise God.
@kimmykimko God didn't give any such revelation for amillennialism . The bible is clearly premil
2 Pet 1:20 " no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation"
I don’t believe John’s revelation is linear or in chronological order. John was taken out of the timeline and so when I read/study Revelation, I take my Hal Lyndsey glasses off and try to see what he’s saying in a different light. And this is not a salvation issue so we all can agree to disagree without being mean or condemning others for for having a different view on the 1000 years.
Zechariah 14:9 And the Lord shall be King over all the EARTH.
All of chapter 14 of Zechariah is describing in detail the millennial reign of our Lord Jesus.
The apostles teach Christ is reigning now.
If we say Christ will institute an earthly kingdom for a 1000 year, non-everlasting reign, we need scripture which indicates such.
Acts 2 has Peter saying Christ fulfilled the Davidic covenant by continuing David's kingdom with an everlasting reign; there was no mention of a temporary, non-eternal 1000 year reign.
Both amil/postmil, and premil believe Zechariah 14:9, but disagree on when.
If there is a passage referencing Zechariah 14:9 which explicitly indicates when, I'd like to know about that passage so I can update my notes on it.
It sure seems so, and that the unbelievers will all remain dead for those 1000 years just as Rev 20 indicates.
Amen! Great job. :)
The Greek word for "thousand" is "Chilioi" was used in 2 Peter 3:8 and in Revelation 20:1-7
The definition is (Uncertain Affinity) not a literal thousand years on this earth as many claim
Strong’s Definitions
χίλιοι chílioi, khil'-ee-oy; plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand:-thousand.
Thousand = Uncertain Affinity
Therefore, since it's a time of uncertainity, how can anyone place a "definite" time on something that is uncertain?
More Scripture on Rev.20:5 - THE REST OF THE DEAD" ...
Mat 8:21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. 22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and LET THE DEAD BURY THEIR DEAD
Luk 9:59 And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. :60 Jesus said unto him, LET THE DEAD BURY THEIR DEAD: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
Eph 2:1 And YOU HATH HE QUICKENED, who WERE DEAD in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:5-6 Even when we WERE DEAD in sins, HATH QUICKENED US TOGETHER WITH CHRIST, (by grace ye are saved;) And HATH RAISED US UP TOGETHER and made us SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES IN CHRIST JESUS:
Eph 1:3 & 19-20 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who HATH blessed us with all spiritual blessings IN HEAVENLY PLACES IN CHRIST: ..... 19 And what is THE EXCEEDING GREATNESS of HIS POWER TO US-ward who believe, according to the working of HIS MIGHTY POWER, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, WHEN he raised him from the dead, and SET HIM at his own right hand IN THE HEAVENLY PLACES,
Eph 3:16-17 ,20 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be STRENGTHENED with MIGHT by HIS SPIRIT IN THE INNER MAN; ... 20 Now unto HIM THAT IS ABLE to do EXCEEDING ABUNDANTLY above ALL THAT WE ASK OR THINK, according to the POWER that worketh IN US,
Col 2:13 And YOU, BEING DEAD in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, HATH HE QUICKENED together WITHI HIM, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Col 3:1 If YE THEN BE RISEN WITH CHRIST, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. 2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For ye are dead, and YOUR LIFE IS HID WITH CHRIST IN GOD.
John 14:2-3, 19-20 - . 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I GO TO PREPARE A PLACE FOR YOU. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I WILL come again, and I WILL RECEIVE YOU unto myself; THAT WHERE I AM, there YE MAY BE ALSO. ...... 19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: BECAUSE I LIVE, YE SHALL LIVE ALSO. 20 At THAT DAY ye shall KNOW thatII AM IN MY FATHER, and YE IN ME, and I IN YOU. .
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is CHRIST IN YOU, the hope of glory:
Rev 20:4-6 And I SAW THRONES, and THEY THAT SAT UPON THEM, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the SOULS of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; andTHEY LIVED AND REIGHNED WITH CHRIST a thousand years. 5 But THE REST OF THE DEAD lived not again until the thousand years were finished. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION. 6 Blessed and holy is HE THAT HATH PART IN in the FIRST RESURRECTION: on such the SECOND DEATH HATH NO POWER, but THEY SHALL BE PRIEST OF GOD AND CHRIST, and SHALL REIGN WITH HIM a thousand years.
COMPARE THE FOLLOWIG SCRIPTURES:
Blessed is he that "HATH PART IN" : W/- John 13:8 & Rev. 1:5
Second DEATH hath no power: - w/- Jn. 11:25-26; Jn. 5:24; John 8:51-52;
They SHALL BE PRIESTS: - w/- Rev. 1:6; 1 Pet. 2:5-9
The issue of Amill/Postmill/Premill concerns how one may characterize the millennium itself, and this starts in Rev. 20. The passages from Rev. 4 to Rev. 19 (21) which explains a certain narrative on how you get to ch. 20, can be varied. In reality that narrative depends on a few passages, namely the opening (Rev. 1:1-4), which most futurists ignore. Also it depends on how one defines the major players, the beasts, the harlot, etc., and that will be the basis for whatever narrative brings you to Rev. 20. Lets not forget, this is a "revelation," given by Christ to John, specifically directed to seven churches in Asia, all existing in the first century , written in signs or symbols, of events that will immediately begin to take place. The proper understanding will demand that any interpretation is viewed through the lenses of one of those seven churches in the first century, because they are the intended audience. The question begs, what relevance does an event have to the Christians in those churches.
I’ve been wondering that myself! Where does this idea of putting a gap in?
Dispensational teaching has to put a gap in there after the 69th week because their teaching would not make sense otherwise. Shows right there how it's unbiblical. No gap. There just is no gap
This position is not biblical or original of the apostles. This position has no support from Old Testament and it’s fully denies all promise of God to restore the Nation of Israel, and it’s spiritualizes texts that literal as allegorical, it’s to focus on people like Augustine and Calvin etc. focus on apostles
Amil is the view that makes the most sense. No manipulating of the scriptures has to be done when we realize that the millennial reign is occurring now. Allow Jesus to reign victoriously in your life so that others will be drawn to Him!
@ Jody so when exactly has Satan been bound, to where he deceived the nations no more? That’s what Rev 20:2&3 says. He seems alive & well & deceiving even more today, to me! In fact, when in all of history has he been bound to not deceive any more!
Idk I'm not saying your wrong but this view point requires some assumptions, It's kind of the same as the pre trib does with 2 second comings but this view we have to assume 2 kinds of resurrections
A Millennium Puzzle to solve… Will Christ be conducting funeral services for mortals killed in accidents 500 years after His Second Coming?
The “first resurrection” in Rev. chapter 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the Book of Revelation, because the two witnesses are resurrected from the dead in chapter 11. There are two different types of resurrection in John chapter 5. There is a spiritual resurrection from the dead in John 5:24, and a bodily resurrection from the dead in John 5:28-29.
Does your view of the Millennium agree with what Paul said in 2 Thess. 1:7-10, when Paul said Christ returns in "flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not obey the Gospel? The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20.
Does your view agree with what Peter said in 2 Peter 3:10-13, when Peter said this earth is going to burn and "dissolve" when He comes as a thief on the day of the Lord? The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20.
Does your view agree with what Paul said in 2 Tim. 4:1, when Paul said both the living and the dead will be judged at His appearing? The time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others is found in Rev. 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible. (This verse also proves the Book of Rev. is not in chronological order.) The judgment of the dead is also found at the end of Rev. chapter 20.
Does your view agree with what Jesus said in Matt. 25:31-46, where He described the judgment of the sheep and goats, which leaves no mortals alive on the planet at the end of the passage? There are also no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Rev. chapter 19.
Does your view agree with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness?
Does your view agree with what John recorded in Rev. 9:1-2, when an angel comes down from heaven with a key to unlock the pit, which means the pit was locked before that time? Are there wicked angels already in the pit in Rev. 9:11? John recorded angels already "bound" in Rev. 9:14. The beast "ascends" out of the pit in Rev. chapter 11, which means the beast was in the pit before that time.
Take all of the above and compare it to the symbolic language found in Rev. chapter 20, and the fact the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order, and you will have the truth.
There is a 2nd death, and there are two Resurrections. Being Born Again and raised up in Baptism (Colossians 2:10-12), and then reuniting with your body
I also found it interesting in my studies that the phrase "thousand" is spelled "aleph" in Hebrew which happens to be the "first" letter of the Hebrew alphabet.
It is possible in principle that "come to life" could be used in a non-literal sense, such as one's spirit being received with honor in heaven between death and resurrection. What is *not* possible is for John to say that the faithful resisters of the beast came to life, and that the rest of the dead did not come to life until after the thousand years, and for him to mean anything other than that what was experienced by the faithful and denied to the rest of the dead, was, after the thousand years, experienced by the rest of the dead. It was what the faithful experienced in the judgment scene of Rev. 20:4 that was denied to the rest of the dead until the completion of the thousand years in v. 5. Did the rest of the dead receive a heavenly reception and reign with Christ? No. They got physical resurrection. And since they got--belatedly--what was given to the faithful, what the faithful got was physical resurrection. To try to say anything else scrambles the passage.
John 5:25 is exactly consistent with Eph 2 and Col 1:13-14
Remember unity is Him in us but also us in Him, and He is in the Father. John 17
Then consider 1Cor 15:21-24
There is an order.
And there is a spiritual resurrection and then a physical one.
The resurrection unto condemnation is the second death. Remember every knee shall bow and confess that Jesus is LORD. This is the scene we have in Revelation 20v11-14.
Do you guys have a full teaching vid series on Rev? I'd love to see it. This has been a very good presentation from an Amill perspective. T
Thank you! If you scroll down on this link you should find most of the videos: www.youtube.com/@NorthAvenueChurch/search?query=revelation
Thank you for the link. Blessings on all.
Revelation 20:1-3 is a continuation of the events in chapter 19.
Then Revelation 20:4-17 clearly layout a 1000 year reign of Christ, then the loosing of Satan just long enough to deceive the nations to attack the camp of the saints, followed by fire down from heaven to then destroy all of God's enemies and then the Great White Throne Judgment.
The verse in Revelation chapter 19 that clearly says that the Lord will not destroy any and all enemies and leave no room for future enemies is verse 15.
Revelation 19:15 KJV
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Who will he rule with a rod of iron? Sinners spared to enter the Millennium at his Second Coming.
This is parallel to the following passages of Scriptures, all referring to the future Millennial Reign of Christ:
Zechariah 14:9-11 KJV
And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one. [10] All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. [11] And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
Zechariah 14:16-21
And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. [17] And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. [18] And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain ; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. [19] This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. [20] In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE Lord ; and the pots in the Lord's house shall be like the bowls before the altar. [21] Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.
Revelation 2:26-27 KJV
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: [27] And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Revelation 12:5 KJV
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Amillennialism has no case in the Holy Scriptures.
Agreed I think it is quite clear
Nope
Good job.
Yes the narrative of Rev 20 is covering the same time period as Rev 19. "The Battle", of 20 is the same battle of 19.19 and of 16.14. and I would also add 14.14-20
There are other features common to various layers of Rev, indicating that they are covering covering same periods of time.
11.7. 17.8. 20.3. 20.7. speak of the event of Satan coming out of the bottomless.
6.16. 11.18. 20.11-13. speak of the one-time end of the world and judgment.
speak of the time of the Tribulation, and that it would be a short time.
But reader, ponder this, Why is it that nowhere in the N.T. (excluding Rev 20) is there any mention of a 1000 yr reign of Jesus after he returns? ...nowhere. In Mat, Mark, and Luke, Jesus tells of the total time period between right then, and all the way up to the Judgment, - and NO MENTION of a 1000 yr reign after he returns. No mention. Why? Peter and Paul both speak of end time events, but no mention of a 1000yr reign of Christ after He returns. Why? Is it some kind of secret? But they all mention that Christ is right now, on the throne reigning, having defeated Satan, death, Hell and the grave. JESUS IS REIGNING NOW. and we reign with Him. And Peter and Paul reign with Him. We don't give enough weight to that; we ho-hum it. Jesus is reigning now, and all the wicked things the democrats and the left are doing, - that's not causing Him to fret, He's not fidgety; He hasn't budged one inch on that throne; and He's not going to budge one inch. He's going to continue to reign, and then He comes and bashes them with a rod of iron. Or, as in flaming fire, taking vengeance; Or, as in the days of Noah, - destroying . e v e r y o n e . on the planet other than the 8 on the boat, - e v e r y o n e - was destroyed. The saints are all in eternal bodies, neither male nor female. There will be no one left to repopulate for the "1000 yrs".
The 1000yr reign is now; the Church Age.
There has to be a reason why I can't listen n to you 3 more than just a few minutes. What a jacked up discernment of specific passage.
Satan is bound up and his power is limited??????
On what planet are you living.
The Lord's prayer
THY Kingdom COME
On EARTH as it is in HEAVEN
That certainly has NOT happened yet.
NOTHING.happening now is a kin to what it's like in heaven
@@boldbeliever52 I know you're serious, and concerned for the word of God; you want to guard that Word. Good.
Revelation is not written chronologically from Rev 4 straight through Rev 22. You think that everything in Rev 20, is chronologically later than Rev 12. But that's not the case. In Rev12, Satan was cast out of heaven. (Satan had not been cast out at the time of Eve; he left out on his own. And probably after deceiving Eve, 1/3 of the angels followed Satan) In Rev 20.1, an angel came down and bound satan. That was in the time of Rev 12, right after Christ laid life down, defeating Satan, casting out of heaven. Because he is bound and cant deceive the nations, doesn't mean he has no power. In the time of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar, made a giant image to the dream that Daniel interpreted. And King N. said that everybody bow and worship it, and whoever won't worship, be put in fiery furnace. Satan had power at that time to deceive "the (gentile) nations", because "the nations" were not specially in God's hand. But during the Church Age, God has specifically limited Satan's ability to deceive the gentile nations, and millions on millions of the gentiles have been saved. YES. After God's Son hung on nails obeying his Father, YES, God did limit the ability of Satan to thwart the message of the gospel. Yes God allows Satan to try to put me in fear of stepping out, coming to Christ, and God uses satan to perfectly set the stage for my opportunity to get saved. If we are living 10 yrs longer, I think you will see the time when Satan is loosed. and you will no longer question the difference when Satan is bound and when he is loosed: it will be the worst tribulation ever, because of the all-encompassing scope of it: and whoever would not worship the image of the beast will be put to death. same as Nebuchadnezzar. 2 Thes. 2.3-8, Paul also, is talking about the time Satan is loosed. And, as in Rev 20.3, it is to be a short season: so it is in Mat.24.22.
Absolutely right. The New Testament repeatedly teaches that Jesus has been reigning since His resurrection (Matt 28:18, Ephesians 2:19-23, Col 1:12-13, Rev 1:5-6, etc.). That has to be taken into account when interpreting Revelation 20. We can't interpret Revelation 20 in such a way that contradicts these other scriptures.
AMEN AND AMEN!!
@@boldbeliever52 Satan is bound "from deceiving the nations' (Greek 'Ethnos") in order for the Gospel to spread over all the earth. Gentiles and nations are synonymous with the 12 Tribes of Israel in Dispersion but regathered under the New Covenant. These are the Protestant Christian nations of the world. He is then loosed at the end of this Hospel Age to go out to "DECEIVE THE NATIONS" ONCE MORE. This is what we are witnessing presently.
At around 41 mins they're talking about "spiritual resurrection", suggesting that the first resurrection is "spiritual. However the Bible uses the word resurrection 41 times but excluding 2 times in revelation 20:5-6 as these are the verses in question, the other 39 ALL speak of physical resurrection, therefore we have to allow the Scriptures to speak for themselves. When the Bible uses the term Resurrection it is ALWAYS refers to physical resurrection. The bible doesnt speak of spiritual resurrection.
I think this is a fair point. At the same time I think there can be exceptions to the general rule.
But, in my view the first resurrection itself refers to the physical bodily resurrection of Christ (Acts 26:23, 1 Cor 15:20) and we all spiritually have part in His resurrection (Eph 2:4-6, Romans 6, Col 2:12-13).
So when did the millennium kingdom begin-952 A.D. at the earliest?
[2023 (the time of this video) -1,000 years -1 year minimum (for good measure, to include these speakers’ study) -70 years (my estimate for the oldest gentleman on the right’s max age)]
Not a literal 1000
Very good
Good discussion. I heard someone say that where it says "lived and reigned" in verse 4 of Revelation 20, the greek actually says lived on instead of just "lived". Jesus said that whoever believes in Him shall never die. What say you?
Unfortunately the Greek does just say "lived" and not "lived on"
Thanks for the correction. Seeking and embracing truth is so important.
These are my notes from listening to Steve Gregg's teaching on this topic:
4. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years
i. The Greek word for "came to life" in the tense found here is zao(pronounced zah-o),
which can mean "continued to live" or "came to life" as in began to live.
"zao" is in the aorist verb tense, meaning the condition is past and continues to be that condition.
So either they started living or continued living.
ii. "came to life" is the verb tense that supports the premillenial/Dispensational view.
"continued to live" is supports the amillenial/postmillenial view.
iii. John 5:25
25. "“Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live."
a) Believers are already spiritually raised.
Since this is the spirit realm, "continued to live" is more correct than "came to life".
We will do a further word study below.
iv. Matthew 22:32
32. "‘I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living(zao).”"
a) Jesus said He is the God that is of those who are saved and continue to live.
b) Jesus is saying that the intermediate state of old testament saints (not pergatory).
c) This part of Revelation is telling us Christians who die continue to live and reign with Christ, and when absent from the body, are present with the Lord.
v. The translation "came to life" indicates resurrection.
a) Otherwise, "continued to live" is seen as the would of martyrs reigning with Christ in heaven as they wait the day for their resurrection in glorified bodies.
vi. Translations with "they came to life and reigned"
LSB, NLT, NIV, CSB, ESV, NASB
vii. Translations with "they lived and reigned"
KJV, NKJV
a) Note that the KJV translators were Amillenialists.
viii. This word is found several other times in revelation.
a) Means "already living and continuing to live", "continued to live"
Rev 1:18 Jesus is called "the living(zao) one". He is "alive(zao) forever"
Rev 3:1 "you have a name that you are alive(zao), but you are dead.
Rev 4:9 "to Him who lives(zao) forever and ever,"
Rev 4:10 "will worship Him who lives(zao) forever"
Rev 7:2 "the living(zao) God"
Rev 10:6 "Him who lives(zao) forever"
Rev 15:7 "wrath of God, who lives(zao) forever"
Rev 19:20 "were thrown alive(zao) into the lake of fire"
b) There are only 2 verses where it could possibly be came to life
Rev 2:8 Jesus was dead and has "come to life(zao)"
Rev 13:14 "to the beast who had the wound of the sword and "continued to live(zao)"
I. Jesus died and came back to life.
(Christ was dead and did come to life)
The beast was wounded, and continued to live.
(it didn't die - had 6 other perfectly - working heads)
c) That leaves with Christ's resurrection as the only case where you see a resurrection outside of Chapter 20.
d) If you are premil, "came to life" is what you take, even though premil is still inconsistent with who gets raised when.
ix. Why should it read "continued to live" instead of "came to life"?
a) John saw the souls of those who were martyred.
This was not on earth, because when the believer is absent from the body, they are present with the Lord, where He is, in heaven.
b) If this was a resurrection, John would more likely see their bodies, not their souls.
I. He who believes in Jesus has already passed from death to life.
The death of the martyrs did not end their lives. They lived on.
John could also be dividing Ezekiel's Prophecy prior to and after a Millennial Kingdom...or Ezekiel also has time relevant events in mind and John is more specifically speaking of the end. :/ *shrugs*
Brilliantly biblical, some new revelation to me. Absolute proof Satan is loosed at the 5th Trumpet BEFORE Jesus Returns, not 1000 years after Jesus Returns.
Revelation 9:1-2 KJV
And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
[2] And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
Why did you stop quoting at verse 2? Keep quoting to see who is released, hint: its not the devil! The devil is the one who empowers the BEAST and gives him his power Rev 13:2
@@tentmaker2254 Devil bound for 1000 years, loosed, then thrown into the lake of fire at His Second Coming, not 1000 years after He comes.
2 Thessalonians 2:8 KJV
And then shall *_that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:_*
Revelation 20:2-3,7-10 KJV
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, *_and bound him a thousand years,_*
[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, *_that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled:_* and after that he must be *_loosed a little season._*
[7] And *_when the thousand years are expired,_* Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
[8] And *_shall go out to deceive the nations_* which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, *_to gather them together to battle:_* the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
[9] And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: *_and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them._*
[10] *_And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire_* and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night *_for ever and ever._*
SB Its actually both
@The Age to Come You are spot on my friend. I've noticed these men seem to mostly avoid Revelations when reading and discussing these. I wonder why that might be? Could it be that (obviously) Revelations disproves their stance on this topic as well as their view on tribulation? All the scripture I've found points to pretrib rapture and premillennial tribulation, post tribulation millennial reign. These guys seem to cherry pick the Bible instead of reading it in its totality.
@@tentmaker2254 11 They have as king over them, the angel of the abyss; his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in the Greek he has the name Apollyon.
New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update (La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation, 1995), Re 9:11.
Are you saying this is not Satan being referenced here?
The New Topical Textbook lists Abaddon and Apollyon as names of Satan. The Bible Knowledge Commentary does the same.
Jewish wedding symbolism:
(A gospel within the gospel)
"Let not your heart be troubled: you believe in God, believe also in me.
In my Father's house (in heaven) are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I WILL COME AGAIN, and receive you unto myself; *that where I am* there (in heaven) you may be also.
And where I go you know, and the way you know."
Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
Jesus saith unto him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: *no man* comes unto the Father (who art in heaven), *but* by me."
{John 14:1-6}
--The time of the wedding was determined by the bridegroom's father and at the time determined by the father the bridegroom would fetch his bride and bring her back to his place prepared for them at his father's house.
And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
{Revelation 8:1}
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men
{2 Peter 3:7} (Jer 4:23-28, Zeph 3:6)
....
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
{2 Peter 3:13}
--The resurrected saints will enter in the gates of heaven into the new Jerusalem, that has been prepared for us *in heaven*
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
{Revelation 22:14}
(But *the rest of the dead* lived not again until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection.
{Revelation 20:5}
^
No man left alive on earth, after Jesus Christ comes again.
Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus will raise up us also by Jesus, and will present us with you (in heaven).
{2 Corinthians 4:14}
To the end [objective] he may establish your hearts unblameable in holiness *before* God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ *with all his saints*
{1 Thessalonians 3:13}
(The time of the wedding feast)
"But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you IN MY FATHER'S KINGDOM."
{Matthew 26:29}
--The saints, after the thousand years (tabernacle) in heaven, the saints of God will descend with the Father and the Son and the host of heaven, with the new city and we will be spectators in our Creator's new six day creation of the new heavens and of the new earth. (Rev 21:1, Is 66:22-23, Zach 8:3, 14:4)
And the goat (scapegoat) will bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land NOT INHABITED: and he will release the goat in the wilderness.
{Leviticus 16:22}
And when the thousand years are expired, satan (the literal Azazel the scapegoat) will be loosed out of his prison, (also chains of circumstance.)
(The resurrection of the condemnation.)
And will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, GOG and MAGOG, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and DEVOURED them.
{Revelation 20:7-9}
And death and hell (hades the grave) where cast into the lake of fire, *this is the second death*
{Revelation 20:14}
And the saints will sing;
O death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your victory?
{1 Corinthians 15:55}
--Like the children of Israel, the saints will have a dispensation (time) of tabernacle with God the Father and with his Son, our Lord Jesus Christ in heaven, before the inheritance (and our eternal kingdom, and home in the country) is given to the saints.
This being the new heavens and the new earth, that the nation of Israel symbolized in the type of the end time greater reality.
These [The Patriarchs] all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed THAT THEY WERE STRANGERS AND PILGRIMS ON THE EARTH.
For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
But now they desire a better country, THAT IS AN HEAVENLY: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: *for he hath prepared for them a city*
{Romans 11:13-16}
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for GREAT IS YOUR REWARD IN HEAVEN: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
{Matthew 5:12}
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, *we have a building of God* an house not made with hands, eternal *in the heavens*
{2 Corinthians 5:1}
19:28 my favorite translation is the KJV and it says “the battle”.
I looked on blue letter bible and couldn't find KJV with "the battle".
Is there an older KJV version that has it?
The Greek interlinear in Blue Letter Bible and even other sites don't have the "ho" in front of Polemas in Revelation 20.
Anyone know why?
@@joshuat7498 Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
"to battle"
Revelation 16:14
For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
"the battle"
same thing... now... anytime somebody points to a foreign language... they reveal themselves as somebody that does not believe the Bible they hold in their hands.
and if you don't believe the Bible you hold in your hands.. you ought not to expect to understand the Bible.
let me encourage you to read the King James Bible... it is the pure word of God in the English language... the word of God comes from heaven... not from dead languages.
Psalm 119:89
For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven.
also, let me say... when Satan is released.. we, that are saved, are up in the air.
this is supported all throughout the Bible... from Genesis to Revelation.
camp of the saints = Galatians 4:26
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
God ain't gonna rain down fire on those of us that are saved.. as these gentlemen, in the video, suggest.
@@joshuat7498 The KJV does indeed say "the battle" in Rev 16:14. However, it is the Greek word Polemas not what they said it is. They also said it is only in Revelation 3 times which is false, as it is used 9 times in Revelation. I posted all the verses it is used in but you use the same site I do, the Blue Letter Bible, I love that site BTW and you can see yourself where it is used.
Another problem with A Mill is when do the proponents of it's teaching believe the kingdom of Israel referred to in Acts 1:6-7 will happen?
You see, that is why there is a literal 1000 year reign.
Millennial Puzzle:
My view of the Millennium agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thess. 1:7-10, when Paul said Christ returns in "flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not obey the Gospel. The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20.
My view agrees with what Peter said in 2 Peter 3:10-13, when Peter said this earth is going to burn and "dissolve" when He comes as a thief on the day of the Lord. The fire comes at the end of Rev. chapter 20.
My view agrees with what Paul said in 2 Tim. 4:1, when Paul said both the living and the dead will be judged at His appearing. The time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others is found in Rev. 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible. (This verse also proves the Book of Rev. is not in chronological order.) The judgment of the dead is also found at the end of Rev. chapter 20.
My view agrees with what Jesus said in Matt. 25:31-46, where He described the judgment of the sheep and goats, which leaves no mortals alive on the planet at the end of the passage.
My view agrees with Peter in 2 Pet. 2:4, and Jude in Jude 1:6, when they both said wicked angels are already in chains of darkness.
My view agrees with what John recorded in Rev. 9:1-2, when an angel comes down from heaven with a key to unlock the pit. Are there wicked angels already in the pit in Rev. 9:11? John recorded angels already "bound" in Rev. 9:14. The beast "ascends" out of the pit in Rev. chapter 11, which means the beast was in the pit before that time.
Take all of the above and compare it to the symbolic language found in Rev. chapter 20 and you will have the truth.
The Words of the book of prophecy guide us as we don't add to it or take away from it.
Revelation 20:5 NKJV - "But *the rest of the dead DID NOT LIVE AGAIN UNTIL the thousand years were FINISHED.* This is the first resurrection."
Both eternal judgments and resurrections are clearly 1000 years apart.
Judgment must begin at the house of God. In Matt. 25, the kingdom of heaven is like...
The blessed and holy live again & reign with Christ 1000 years (Rev. 20:6), while *the REST don't live again UNTIL the thousand years were FINISHED.*
Scripture doesn't say NO MORTALS are alive at that point (Isa. 24:6). There are a FEW mortal men left.
Yes, four angels are locked in chains of darkness, and at the Euphrates, but that doesn't make those four = the dragon or beast.
Yehovah is a consuming fire (Heb. 12:28).
Deuteronomy 4:24 KJV - "For *the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God."*
Yehovah *descended in FIRE,* and the sight of His glory *gets described* as FIRE* too.
Exodus 19:18 KJV - "And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because *the LORD descended upon it in FIRE:* and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly."
Exodus 24:15-17 KJV - "And Moses went up into the mount, and a cloud covered the mount.
And *the GLORY of the LORD abode upon mount Sinai,* and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud.
And *the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring FIRE* on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel."
Exodus 40:38 KJV - "For the cloud of the LORD was upon the tabernacle by day, and *FIRE* was on it by night, in the sight of all the house of Israel, throughout all their journeys."
Deuteronomy 4:36 KJV - "Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee *HIS GREAT FIRE;* and thou heardest his words *out of the midst of the FIRE."*
Deuteronomy 5:24 KJV - "And ye said, Behold, *the LORD our God hath shewed us his glory and his greatness,* and we have heard his voice out of the midst of the *FIRE:* we have seen this day that God doth talk with man, and he liveth."
Deuteronomy 18:16 KJV - "According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, *neither let me see this GREAT FIRE any more, that I die not."*
Eze 1:26-28 KJV - "And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.
27 And I saw as the colour of amber, *as the appearance of FIRE round about within it,* from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, *I saw as it were the appearance of FIRE, and it had brightness round about.*
28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. *This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD.* And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake."
When His feet are on the mountain, the WICKED no more pass through Israel, & are CUT OFF (killed), and *the FURY of the LORD gets described like FIRE.*
Nah 1:1-12 KJV - "The burden of Nineveh. The book of the vision of Nahum the Elkoshite.
2 *God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is FURIOUS; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.*
3 The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.
4 He rebuketh the sea, and maketh it dry, and drieth up all the rivers: Bashan languisheth, and Carmel, and the flower of Lebanon languisheth.
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? *HIS FURY is poured out like FIRE,* and the rocks are thrown down by him.
7 The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him.
8 But with an overrunning flood he will make an utter end of the place thereof, and darkness shall pursue his enemies.
9 What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: AFFLICTION shall NOT rise up the second time.
10 For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, *they shall be devoured as STUBBLE fully dry.*
11 There is one come out of thee, that imagineth evil AGAINST the LORD, a wicked counsellor.
12 Thus saith the LORD; Though they be quiet, and likewise many, *yet thus shall they be cut down, when he shall pass through.* Though I have afflicted thee, I will afflict thee no more."
The Messiah returns in bodily form, but in the glory of His Father, with his holy angels.
Mark 8:38 KJV - "Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, *when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels."*
Matthew 16:27 NKJV - *“For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels,* and then He will reward each according to his works."
Remember, even Christ's eyes were as flames of fire (Rev. 1:14). Why?
Isaiah 34:2 KJV - "For *the indignation of the LORD is upon ALL NATIONS,* AND *HIS FURY upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter."*
The presence, glory, and fury of the LORD like FIRE does affact the creation. As He pours out vengeance.
2Thessalonians 1:6-8 ESV - "since indeed *God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you,*
and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, WHEN the Lord Jesus is revealed FROM heaven WITH his mighty angels IN FLAMING FIRE, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus."
@@walkinthelight1748 Multiple Second Coming Visions in Revelation: (book not in chronological order )
Christ returns at the end of Revelation chapter 6, with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as are found in the Olivet Discourse.
Those at the end of the chapter are hiding from the wrath of the Lamb.
Why would they be hiding if Christ is not present?
The "kings", "captains", "might men", "free", and "bond" are also found in chapter 19 at the return of Christ.
He returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and the time of the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:15-18.
The beginning of chapter 12 is a history lesson containing the fall of Satan, and the birth and death of Christ, who is the seed promised to crush the head of Satan in Genesis 3:15.
The Second Coming is found in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew chapter 13.
He comes as a thief at Armageddon, and we find the greatest earthquake in history in chapter 16. This occurs when the 7th angel pours out his vial. How powerful is an earthquake which moves islands and destroys the mountains? What is happening to the planet?
He comes on a horse in chapter 19.
Chapter 20?
Does He come with the fire, and the judgment of the dead at the end of chapter 20, which agrees with what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and 2 Timothy 4:1?
(The time of the judgment of the dead is also found in Revelation 11:18.)
There are no mortals left alive on the planet at the end of Matthew 25:31-46.
Why does an angel come down from heaven with a key to unlock the bottomless pit in Revelation 9:1-2, if the pit was not already locked before that time?
Revelation 9:14 proves some of the angels were previously bound in some manner.
Because the two witnesses were bodily resurrected from the dead in Revelation 11, the "first resurrection" at the beginning of Revelation 20 is not the first bodily resurrection in the book.
The principle of "Recapitulation" means there are multiple visions of His return.
@@SpotterVideo The Word of God is truth.
Rev. 20 described the *FIRST resurrection (of the just) unto eternal life.* If the Rev. 11, two witnesses are last in faith to die, then they'd be first to be resurrected (Matt. 20:16).
It's the same resurrection of those that are His, AT HIS COMING (1Cor. 15:23).
The Revelation of Jesus Christ is the book of prophecy (Rev. 22:18-19), not history.
We can see how Michael stands up for up for Daniel's people in Daniel chapter 12, correlating with revelations 12 which is about a future event.
Recapitulation is a summary or retelling of an event.
Revelation contains recapitulation as it repeatedly talks about the last 42 months of the age, and the accompanying events up through Christ's coming, from different vantage points.
Christ's ONE coming is His GLORIOUS APPEARING (Titus 2:13; Matt. 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27; Luke 21:25-27).
It's *NOT multiple comings.*
What is most stunning about the fact that there are multiple hotly debated views is that the church comprised of Holy Spirit filled Christ followers can't tell whether or not Jesus is here reigning.....you'd think it would be pretty obvious.
Good point. Born again believers have several views on eschatology. These views are opposed to one another. People will say that we can just agree to disagree. But it is sobering to acknowledge the fact that these several views cannot all be true. They could all be false, or one of them could be true. That means there are at least 3 views that are not true. We know that the Holy Spirit does not lead anyone into error. So born again believers can apparently be able to quench or resist the Holy Spirit and follow after their own imaginations or possibly doctrines of demons. Getting back to your point, you'd think we could at least all agree on whether He has come and is ruling or not! Matthew 24 as well as many other scriptures make it clear that ALL OF CREATION will know when Christ comes.
The legacy standard bible smoothes out a lot of what you're talking about.
32:00 the 2nd biggest lie satan ever told humanity is that you could sell your soul. you cannot sell something that doesn't belong to you in the first place.
1 Thessalonians 4 v 16 . The dead in Christ shall rise. This is the physical first resurrection of Revelation 20 v 5 . Scripture does not oppose itself.
I go between Amill and post-mill. Jesus taught the Kingdom is within us, once you become a believer. So that makes the Kingdom on earth being the temple in us. Jesus taught the Lord’s prayer - thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.. so does that mean in us / invisible or visible on earth ? Jesus taught on the kingdom of heaven and God all the time. I think it goes a lot deeper than we think. As far as the church growing and taking over the earth at the end of this age could be a big possibility then Satan is released and pours out his wrath upon God’s people then he gathers the battle to fight Jesus when he returns and we are gathered unto him.
Where did Jesus teach us that the kingdom is within us? 🤯
It will not be the same battle. Well, from where did those armies come in Rev. 20:8-9? Hey. Wake up. The text says that one thousand years has elapsed! That millenium has been another dispensational test of mankind. Even under ideal conditions, many men have waited for their opportunity to rebel. This explains this dispensational distinctive, that during this administrative test there has been no devil or demons to deceive. Yet the evil heart of man has not loved God, despite the paradise setting.
I’m my opinion, the 1000 years is literally the sabbath that he made for man. He promised us a rest.
Oh I like that idea
@@rickytavilla4259 if we do the math from Adam and Eve. And use 2 Peter 3: 8-9 a day is a thousand years., as a thousand years is a day. We are in the 6th millennium now.
That's not what it says tho. The Bible is mostly literal.
02:15 This is Literally Me! 😅😅😅 Ive said these exact words many times over!
The nations that satan gathers Rev 20:7 after the millennium are those people who were on the earth during the millennium who still rejected Christ.Zecheriah 14 says those who came against Jerusalem must celebrate (as a memorial) the feast of tabernacles or they will be subject to the plague.
You guys are massively confused. Go back and do more home work on the three battles: Gog-Magog (Ezekiel 38/39), Armageddon, and the final battle at the end of the Millennium. Three completely different events in terms of participants, leader, disposal of enemy dead, what happened after the battle, etc. Create a spreadsheet that covers each and every attribute of the battles and you will conclude that they are distinct. They are NOT one battle, but three.
Center guy is so passionate and 100% me when discussing eschatology. Is there a cage-stage for Amillenialism?
I think so. I've often thought Joel Webbon has been in cage stage for postmillennialism for about 2-3 years.
John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times. The church rapture is at judgement day
It's all there in Revelation 20
Revelation 21 New earth no more days
I waiver between A- and post-
Keeping scripture in the context of scripture. Amen
All perspectives appear to be supported by some suppositions I have not found addressed or resolved by proponents of either of the views.
Assuming the millennium is a literal 1000 years:
Will Jesus Christ reign automatically terminate at the end of the period? If so, who then is His successor?
Will Christ Jesus abdicate? If so, who rules in His place?
Rein in Heaven or on Earth?
Our Bible states Jesus Christ has been given ALL authority and ALL power in Heaven AND Earth. Wouldn’t that appear to cover all territories? Wouldn’t it be rather arrogant for anyone to presume to limit and confine Christ Jesus kingdom ruling boundaries to fit into our personal paradigm to suit our purposes?
Understanding that the Bible is written for timeless instructions for the redemption of all of Humanity. Providing REAL life examples for all to live by throughout the redemption period to consummation of all things.
This is the basis for Ecclesiastes 1:9 understanding the cyclical nature of humanity. God does not change.
Solomon in his wisdom Ecclesiastes 3 tells humanity a very real truism of the Beast within all MEN without God. Unfortunately, Solomon knew this personally as the 666 is tied to him in the books of the Kings and Chronicles. Nebuchadnezzar having full knowledge of the God of Israel was physically made the beast he was in his arrogance and repented his apostasy in writing Daniel 4.
Do any of the positions negate the finished work of Christ Jesus on the cross or the ultimate atonement completed for us in the Heavenly temple?
Will any of the positions remove our responsibilities to keep our earthly temples(our bodies) abomination free (spotless) until Christ Jesus returns?
Are you waiting until the very last minute possible to try a buy oil for your lamp?
Be ready always……
I am a Prepper of the WORD
HORD the Word
Fill all closets and pantries with the oil of God
You will endure
You will not get weary
Because the Word will anchor you, no blowing to and fro in the wind.
Yes there is tribulation
Always has and will be until His return
How will you experience your tribulations?
I unsure mine with Christ Jesus and I sleep in my armor 😊
Otherwise keep up the good work im being enlightened on how God is using to explain the book of Revelation.
But John was not doing an Exposition of Ezekiel, he is telling us what he saw!?
I don't beleive in the 7 year tribulation. Still don't understand why people put a gap between the 69th and 70th week. God says there will be 70 weeks decreed about your people. He never mentions a gap.
There is a gap in Daniel between the 69th week and the 70th week. The Messiah is cut off after the 69th week. It doesn't say that He was cut off in the 70th week, but everyone but the Dispensationalist put His death in the 70th week, eventhough it isn't in Scripture that way. Is it just clumsy wording?
Because its written that way in the book of the Prophet Daniel concerning Israel as a nation (people kind; natural ones not spiritual Israel is the way the pre mills understand it)
The best material I have ever seen on this topic was by Vic Lockman. The text of Daniel mentions no gap. This is an invention of Chiliasts. Rather the " weeks" as blocks of us of lunar calendar years mark blocks of real time marking significant ebents. Therefore the passing of the 69th week into the 70th week marks the beginning of Christ's ministry.
After the 69 weeks, that is, In the midst of the "70th week",
He WAS CUT OFF OUT OF THE LAND OF THE LIVING and STRICKEN for the TRANSGRESSION of the PEOPLE (Isaiah 53:8).
Not for His own sins was Christ (Messiah) the Prince CUT OFF but for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:1).
And when he expired he cried
"It is Finished" (John 19:30). The temple curtains were torn from top to bottom by unseen hands
(Matt. 27:51).
Thereby, having confirmed the Covenant with many, Christ made an end of "The SACRIFICE and OBLATION" by his death (Daniel 9:27). Thereby he signified that the WAY was NOW OPEN and the Old Covenant OBSOLETE (Hebrews 8:13, 9:1; Hebrews 10:19, 20).
In the midst of the 70th Week Christ was cut off, but following his resurrection he continued to confirm the New Covenant with the Jewish nation for 3 ½ years. We see this pattern enacted in the book of Acts which depicts the conversion of many Jews and their entrance into the church in the early period prior to the focus on the Gentiles being incorporated also into the same body in the later chapters of Acts.
@@bugsocsollie1694Nonsense! Don't you realise this is Hebrew idiom! We have a clear example of the same idiom used in Hosea 6:2. If you overthrow the idiom in Hosea 6:2 you overthrow the very Resurrection of Christ !
AFTER TWO DAYS will he revive
us: IN THE THIRD DAY he will
raise us up, and we shall live in
his sight.
(Hosea 6:2)
AFTER TWO DAYS and IN THE THIRD DAY are really one and the same concept. It is just an example of Hebrew parallelism.
We read in Isaiah
Thy dead men shall live,
TOGETHER WITH MY DEAD
BODY SHALL THEY ARISE.
(Isaiah 26:19)
This, together with Hosea 6:2 is of course a reference to the first resurrection (John 5:25; Revelation 20:6) in which believers are reborn in Christ.
And Hosea 6:2 along with Isaiah 26:19 form the basis for Paul's entire theology of UNION with Christ through Baptism in Romans 6:3-12 and Colossians 2:11-13; 3:1-3; Galatians 2:20).
No, Christ the Prince was cut off AFTER the 69th Week and in the midst of the 70th week he accomplished the sacrifice of himself ending the Old Covenant sacrifices before God for ever.
So it is in Daniel 9:26, 27.
God also signified this when he caused the temple Veil to be torn from top to bottom ! (Matthew 27:51). Just like their "stitched up veil", the sacrifices the unbelieving Jews continued were a self chosen work, an abomination.
Even the Philistines had more sense..When their pointless idol dragon fell prostrated and broken in front of the Ark of the Covenant they realised the futility of their self chosen god (1 Samuel 5:3-10). But the unbelieving Jew continuing in their rejection of Christ the Prince and his one offering for sin which ended once for all the sacrifice and the oblation, took upon themselves their continuation in self chosen "offerings" until God took away their house, their temple, their place and their nation. (Matthew 23:38; Matthew 24; John 11:48)
@@trulyso734It's very simple Hebrew idiom. We have another example of this in Hosea 6:2. After 2 days and and in the third day are two ways of saying the same thing,of course.
After the 69 weeks and more specifically in the 70th week (more specifically in midst of the 70th week) are two ways of saying the same thing, using Hebrew idiom.
So when the Lord descends and the dead in Christ are raised and we which are alive and remain are caught up to meet the Lord in the air. Why are we caught up to come right back down? Paul says this is the day of the Lord
To escort the coming King, we go out to meet the coming King
It was traditional to go out of the City gates and escort a dignitary back in. Even Jesus was escorted through the gates into Jerusalem and I bet if someone comes to your house for dinner, you will go out of your front door and escort them back in!
Why? Because that is what the text says! Tentmaker and Candy are exactly right! The 2nd coming of our Lord is about Him, not us! The "harpazo" (rapture) is a "one-time" event. How can the Lord come "with 10,0000s of His saints" (Jude 14) if we who "are still alive and remain" are not "caught up?" The "requirement" that Christians have to live in heaven with our Lord for a certain time period before He returns is an artificial construct. Remember the key here, which many "willingly" fail to see: The 2nd coming AND the rapture are both tied in to all believers receiving their resurrected bodies!!! NONE of those who have died, from Adam till the "moment" of the 2nd Coming have glorified, immortal, bodies like our Lord's. They are waiting to "be clothed" (2 Cor. 5:1-6). Read 1 Cor. 15:20-24. The "order" of resurrection is laid out, pure and simple.
And There is the marriage supper of the lamb also
Millennial, jubilee year,1000 year Reign Jesus Christ taught us in The Cross "It's Finished '
The "thousand" year period in Revelation 20 comes from a Hebrew idiom which means "first of many"..it is not literal calendar years as many think.
I feel bad for people who can't read a book as simple as the Bible. Ephphatha.
Here to say "Dat Postmil!" I went from premil to postmil. Christ wins and the nations will be discipled. Why would we expect any less?
Post-Millennialism pushes back the Return of Christ....
@Scribeintheink who's the passive aggressive one? Lol. No where did I express that accusation.
Postmil ignores Satan's little season as if it doesn't happen.
@@ETube1971Satan's little season is happening RIGHT NOW!! REVELATIONS 20:7-9
We don't expect any less and it has already happened! Now we are in the time of Satan's loosing for a short season before the return of Christ.
Rev. 20:7: "Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from prison." It's a sequence, with this event coming after the thousand years. You're making a case for Ch. 19 and 20 being the same without discussing the sequence of before and after the thousand years......?
I think we need to be very careful regarding our representation of others.
To say that Doug Wilson, and Moscow is about it, as far as Post-Mil goes, or that they’re essentially the pillars of such a belief, is far from the truth. Take apologia church for example and their Ministry (Arizona).
It’s as if he wanted to speak so fast to be heard, that he wasn’t carefully cross examining the other parties.
In Christ,
Another AMIL believer
And when the thousand years are expired, satan shall be LOOSED out of his prison......" Based on the definition of the word "loosed", satan will be destroyed.
A Christian is still under the rule of Christ without believing in an A Mill view. But there will be a literal 1000 year reign of Christ.
Re: the resurrection/rapture has to be physical because it's a redemption of our bodies a changing in the twinkling of the eye. 1 Cor 15.
What do you do with Revelation 20:4?? Those who will rule and reign with Christ for 1000 years will be those who refused the mark and did not worship the beast or his image. Obviously this has to be those who lived through the great tribulation and had the opportunity to deny those things mentioned.
Also I believe when they're talking about at the end Revelation chapter 19 and 20. They think it's the same battle. Well here's why I don't think it is. He was asking who are these people in Revelation 20 if everybody was destroyed that a post Christ in Revelation chapter 19. My thought on this is this. It happens at the same time or about when the unsaved dead are raised. That means all the unsaved. I suspect that whatever period of time go is going on there that Satan gathers them together the unsaved and deceives them again and directs them to attack us the believer who are in Jerusalem and then God destroys them and the final judgment is complete. That to me answers that question. Which does not support all millennials. It's just simply the unsaved raised and then Satan deceived them to attack Jerusalem with us there. I'm open if I can be shown anything different. Love in Christ Jesus. Pastor Duane and Chico Pup
I'm no theologian but what you say seems 100% spot on. It's fully supported by all the main passages of Zechariah 14 (millennial reign) and Ezekiel 38-39 (Gog-Magog happening when Israel dwells safely ie her foes are long gone for 1000 years). Plus all I've read in OT prophets suggests an earthly regathering of Israel and spiritual revival and triumph, but that process could take many years. Just as it took over 800 years from Isaiah to the exiles, partial return and final fall & scattering.
I'm historic premil but amil seems like a very reasonable and scripture based view as well. Unlike dispensationalism...
The word BATTLE or The Battle in Revelation in the Greek is: polemos and it actually occurs 9 times in Revelation not 3. Here are the verses that Strong's # G4171 is used in Revelation. Rev 9:7, 9:9, 11:7, 12:7, 12:17, 13:7, 16:14, 19:19, and 20:8. It means: πόλεμος pólemos, pol'-em-os; from πέλομαι pélomai (to bustle); warfare (literally or figuratively; a single encounter or a series):-battle, fight, war.
1 cor 15:23 clearly states that we are resurrected at the parousia, and strongly suggest that we will be raised in like-manner Christ was raised... and Christ was raised with a physical body...
If you do a study of the parousia, it clearly points to a prewrath event...
Heads being chopped off can be symbolic of you giving up your own will for Jesus. Jesus is the Head of the church, we give up our own fleshly desires to follow Him. He is our head. So essentially we chop our own heads off to let Jesus lead us.
That's a stretch. It more likely means that there will be great persecution of the saints right before His return.
Note John 5v24 those who believe have everlasting life and are NOT condemned.Note 5v29 "..resurrection of life..." FIRST RESURRECTION . And john also continues "... done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation". This is the coming to life after the 1000 years and John calls it the SECOND DEATH.
1 Corinth 6 v 1-3 . The saints will judge the world and will judge angels . This is done after the 1000 years.
Read Zachariah chapter 14. It explains what will happen during the Millennium!
In Heaven there are no Nations.
Revolution 12:5, 19:15
Great presentation!
The man in the middle is talking as if all of us will die. So your view that we have the FIRST death in this life does not hold for those who Jesus will find living or alive. They will not taste death. Thats why its first resurrection not first death cause truly a true believer does not die. God is a God of the living. The rest if the believers are asleep.
The interesting thing with Revelation 20 that it parallels with Daniel 7, note that it is the first time the thrones are in place for judgement and then speaks of resurrection of the Saints to poses the kingdom.
Question why is there no A-millennium mentioned by Christians in the first 300 years before Augustine. I note that the only spiritualising of the millennium came from a first century Gnostic by the name of Cerinthus.
They are not to be heard who assure themselves that there is to be an earthly reign of a thousand years. They think like the heretic Cerinthus. For the kingdom of Christ is already eternal in the saints-even though the glory of the saints shall be manifested after the resurrection. Victorinus (c. 280, W), 7.360; see also 5.147.
This is not a quote from St. Victorinus. It is the rewrite by St. Jerome (4th century) who purposely changed it to take out the millennialism. St. Victorinus was premillennial. I can show you where to find the true commentary by St. Victorinus if you wish.
God bless
@@st.christopher4854 reading the rest of the Church Fathers, concur that the idea of a spiritual resurrection goes back to 2Timothy 2:18 and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4.
Putting into the context of this extract, VICTORINUS points out the vain superstitions of the teachings of a Gnostic heretic by the name of Cerinthus, his teachings align with the Sadducees in a denial of a future resurrection of the dead, reigning with Christ on a regenerated earth. The epicentre of these heretical teachings started in 2 Timothy 2: vs 18 and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4. Within these heretical beliefs, we see A-millennial beliefs being presented, in saying that we are living in the Millennium now without a physical reign of Christ and on the other hand we also have a Pre-tribulation rapture happening before the appearance of the antichrist.
This primitive heretical eschatological view is the bedrock of all the modern eschatological beliefs, in that their beliefs have their roots framed around Augustinian teachings and linked to the denial of a resurrection of the dead being fulfilled here on the earth.
@@russelljones2305 So wait a minute, are you premillennial or amillennial yourself?
@@tentmaker2254 I hold to a Historic Millennium as do the Ante-Nicene Father’s taught.
@@tentmaker2254 Cerinthus was the first Gnostic heretic to spiritualise the millennium and to deny Christ to rule physically on the earth placing the eternal reign of Christ in the believers. He aligns with the Sadducees and Gnostics in Paul’s encounter with them in 1 Corinthians 15; 2Timothy 2:18 and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4.
As Doug Wilson says, we may very well still be in the EARLY church. Christ may not come back for another 10,000 years - or 50,000 years....and by then, the world may be truly transformed by the gospel. The LAST enemy to be defeated is death. It may take many centuries to defeat the other enemies.
Considering the signs of the times right now, and considering God's dealings with previous examples ... Adam, Noah, tower of Babel, Israel, and now the church age of 2,000 years, it's very improbable we will go another 10,000 or 50,000 years. We are told 6,000 years would elapse from Adam and God would fulfill his plan ... followed by a millennial sabbath rest (the seventh day). We are at about 6,000 years from Adam now.
I’m with Christopher, the flood got only 120 years because that is how long it took Noah to build the Ark,once the judgment came and Sodom was destroyed in one day. Iniquity is increasing too rapidly today and we have the Ark today in Jesus Christ, so the end is at hand. God says, there will be a great falling away, it is so hard to stay focus on your own salvation because of all the enemy throw at us, but those who endure to the end will be saved.
What a joke. Idiotic belief. We are a good ten years away from Christs second coming. Not 10,000. How can anybody believe that
No. Dispensational premillennialism is most biblical and the signs of Matthew 24 are all occurring right now. Christ is about to arrive.
Why wouldn't Jesus reign as king on earth the way he intended?
Amen.
"The rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished..." Rev 20:5 indicates that the dead are separated into two parts; those that are resurrected first and "the rest"; this means you can't spiritualize one part and not the other. "live" means the same for the 1st and the 2nd, so there's a seperation by a thousand years for these two resurrections. Nice try, but sorry to say, you're incorrect. Still my gratitude for your hard work and love for the truth! Blessings in Jesus's
There is no spiritual resurrection When Jesus comes for the second time , Why cause all eyes shall see him including those who pierced him. Revelation 1v7 .
These guys are really misreading scripture . Revelations is clear these are two different battles.
Postmillennialism is much more broadly believed than just Doug Wilson. It’s just not as obvious in American Evangelical Christian culture because the major Christian book publishers belong to premill denominations and it’s the premills who make the movies.
Here is your stumblingblock in decernment of these things.
“And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
{John 5:29}
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, *both* of *the just and unjust*
{Acts 24:15}
*But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished* This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
{Revelation 20:5-6}
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and ("""a thousand years""") some to shame and everlasting contempt.
{Daniel 12:2}
And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha *into ashes* condemned them with an overthrow, making them *an ensample* unto those that after should live ungodly;
{2 Peter 2:6}
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are *set forth for an example* suffering the vengeance of *eternal fire*
{Jude 1:7}
(Sodom is not still burning, so it is not the fire / punishment that is eternal, but rather the consequences thereof.)
And ye [the saints] shall tread down the wicked; for *they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet* in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
{Malachi 4:3}
Thou [satan] hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and *I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth* in the sight of all them that behold thee.
{Ezekiel 28:18}
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such *the second death* hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
{Revelation 20:6}
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. *This is the second death*
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
{Revelation 20:14-15}
What do you imagine against the LORD? He will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.
{Nahum 1:9}
These guys are literally telling you dont believe the bible but believe them SMH
Will the guy in the middle of the panel please let someone else talk?
Good grief, the guy in the middle had too many Red Bulls. The guy on the far left finally calmed him down at 6:10
St. Irenaeus: "I did not write anything. I forgot to ask Polycarp about Daniel and Revelation and he forgot to ask St. John, and nobody else knows anything either. We'll, maybe in many centuries people will just kinda figure it out." Selah
Actually, St. Irenaeus did write a lot concerning end times, also St. Hippolytus of Rome.
@@ziphos sorry, Irenaeus was premillennial and like dispensationalists sees the "one week" of Daniel 9:27 as future.
Justin said there were different opinions about the future rebuilding of Jerusalem. According to Justin, ignorant Christians who did not understand the prophecies in Isaiah and Daniel doubted that Jerusalem would be rebuilt. Trypho asked about the rebuilding of Jerusalem. He did not ask about a millennium. Justin's info about the millennium was added information to the question at hand. DO NOT QUOTE IRENAEUS OR JUSTIN ... they do not give you the help you need.
Finally, St. Justin was correct. Israel became a nation again on May 14, 1948. Jerusalem is rebuilt. And further, exactly 70 years to the day, on May 14, 2018, Jerusalem became the official capital city of Israel. Soon they will build the 3rd temple. Amillennialism is done.
@@ziphos Polycarp and Papias were premil as told to us by Eusebius. Also John the presbyter from the church at Ephesus and St. Aristion. St. Irenaeus was never amillennial. His disciple, St. Hyppolytus was premillennial. They were all from Smyrna. By 300 AD we have prolific premillennialists such as St. Lactantius and St. Cyril. Now with Israel and Jerusalem and the coming 3rd temple, there is no excuse.
@@ziphos answer me one question: what did St. Jerome do to St. Victorinus' commentary on the book of Revelation?
@@ziphos
Fragments from Papias, as told by Eusebius:
"received the sayings of the apostles from those who accompanied them, and he moreover asserts that he heard in person Aristion and the presbyter John. Accordingly he mentions them frequently by name, and in his writings gives their traditions."
"Amongst these he says that there will be a millennium after the resurrection from the dead, when the personal reign of Christ will be established on this earth. He moreover hands down, in his own writing, other narratives given by the previously mentioned Aristion of the Lord's sayings, and the traditions of the presbyter John."
"Ecclesiastical History" 3.39.7-16
@@ziphos St. Hippolytus was indeed premillenial. From his commentary On Daniel
"For the people of the Hebrews shall see Him in human form, as He appeared to them when He came by the holy Virgin in the flesh, and as they crucified Him. And He will show them the prints of the nails in His hands and feet, and His side pierced with the spear, and His head crowned with thorns, and His honourable cross. And once for all shall the people of the Hebrews"
"And 6,000 years must needs be accomplished, in order that the Sabbath may come, the rest, the holy day "on which God rested from all His works." For the Sabbath is the type and emblem of the future kingdom of the saints, when they "shall reign with Christ," when He comes from heaven, as John says in his Apocalypse: for "a day with the Lord is as a thousand years."
Refreshing to see baptist brothers who are also amillennial. Seems like it's not too common, although I learned a ton from Dr Sam Waldron's eschatology class online (who is a baptist as well).
It's easy to see way the pre-tribulation rapture is popular. It promises no one will suffer. Aristotle pointed out in his writing on rhetoric that people respond to pain/pleasure. Modern science confirms that opinion of Aristotle. People will accept the argument that promises the least pain and suffering, regardless if it's true or not.
@@stevelenores5637pretrib rapture is conforms to God's Word more than any other view out there. It seems to me that is because most Christians don't even realize the difference between Israel and the Body of Christ Church. They don't see the difference between Israel's Gospel of the Kingdom and Paul's Gospel of Grace for the Gentiles. They confuse the two and mix them, making a new Gospel that is not a Gospel. In that case, eschatology absolutely is a salvation issue. You can't be saved by believing THE Gospel of our salvation if you don't even know what it is.
@@bugsocsollie1694 I know what rapture is. It's Latin for caught up. It happens when the Jesus Christ returns (once not twice). Pretribulation rapture is unbiblical not premillennial rapture. It's why I can't subscribe to either Amillennialism or pretribulation-rapture. The Bible says what brings salvation and as far I know one's view on the apocalypse (the Greek word for revelation) is not a requirement. Now if you believe that a correct view of revelation is required for your salvation, then I would doubt that you understand salvation.
@@stevelenores5637 Christ already came and revealed many things to Paul, so to say He only comes back once is, well, missing a lot. What did He reveal to Paul? The pretrib rapture, for one. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 "...but this we say by the Word of the Lord....shall be caught up to meet the Lord in the air...."
Jesus never said any such thing to Israel while He was on earth. It was something He reveals to Paul for the Body of Christ Church.
You gotta rightly divide these things.
@@bugsocsollie1694 That was a vision not a return. Many visions like that in the Old Testament. Backing away slowly.....