this is how Vladimir Kramnik quit online chess forever
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 3 июл 2022
- Kramnik narrowly missed qualifying when he flagged in a winning position against Keymer in the last round.
Vladimir Kramnik calls flagging "moral degradation" and vows to never play the Rapid Chess Championship event again after participating in it. 
Игры
it's not a rage quit. it's a disappointed at humanity quit.
disappointed that his chess skills are outdated
@@officiallyaninja Dirty flagging is definitely not chess skill don't talk dribble, that said you do have to expect this in no increment times but it just doesn't feel right
@@jwr3289 he should retired then
@@officiallyaninja Thats not ,,Chess skills", excuse me.... Chess is not suppose to be played with Time. That was implemented so the Anglo-Saxons have a chance...
I play a lot of bullet with no increment and quite often flag people, but I've been thinking about this myself. Mainly because despite preferring fast time controls I quite often am actually trying to play good moves. (what I would refer to as a 'chessy style' ). I can also play non-chess i.e. flaggy style, but don't find it as satisfying in the long run. Clearly in a tournament like the one Kramnik was playing, a small increment is the answer. I think it would also be interesting to have a 'mate in 1' and 'mate in 2' button, for bullet. Meaning if you are completely winning on board, it just puts a slight help towards the player whose actually trying to play good moves. (without taking away from the intensity which non-increment bullet provides). So the idea is if you have mate in 1 or mate in 2 you can press the button. So long as there is a mate in 2 at least you win. (despite you might not have the time to play the move otherwise). If you press the button and there is no mate then you lose.
I feel for Kramnik, he didn't sign up to be an RTS pro when he decided to take up chess in the Soviet Union
The future is now old man
He did when he signed up for an online event though. It is literally the format lol
@@Leonjrxx exactly hahaha if this is his first time and he hates it he can git gud (lol the irony of me saying that about a GM but online chess really feels like its own distinct thing) or only play increment tourneys!
@streamx3m real time strategy pro, like a professional Starcraft player for example. RTS pros have insanely quick mouse and keyboard speeds
@streamx3m real time strategy
This is a professional tournament with serious money on the line. Not only was what Keymer did well within the rules, but also an extremely common tactic. That said, I feel for Kramnik because that's a really shitty way to lose and to have a tournament without increment is just bonkers. There shouldn't be professional tournaments without increment, it's just ridiculous.
This is a valid thing to do in online chess. It seems fine to you because you play online, but these GM's who have played OTB their whole lives just see online chess as a different version of OTB. The standard practices of good sportsmanship still apply, especially in a high level tournament like this.
The guy thought he was faster and could win, and did.
@@georgepantzikis7988 My point was that flagging is very much standard practice and it has nothing to do with poor sportsmanship. If the tournament doesn’t have increment it’s their fault, not the fault of any player that chooses to use the lack of an increment to their advantage. The problem is that a pro tournament without increment should never ever exist in the first place.
That’s why it’s called a blitz or rapid tournament 😅
@@thesnackbandit Blaming the organizers for not giving increment in their tournaments? Are you stupid or what? If players VOLUNTARILY joined a tournament with no increment, then it's their problem for not being able to cope with it!
Also, chess tournaments can have both increments or no time increments in their rules. Both are valid time controls and require different strategies to play with.
Who are you to say chess with no increments are bad... Only players who complain like you lose in no increment chess. Heck, even during the Candidates players are okay with no time increments added.
I understand both Keymer's actions and Kramnik's emotions. I think for more serious tournaments like RCC, there should be a 1sec-3sec increment, just like TItled Tuesday. The whole point of increments is to avoid dirty flagging. However, I would have also played the clock in a losing position with few seconds on the clock. I guess that's online chess. Hope we can see less flagging and more quality chess in the future!
Don´t hold your breath....
What is flagging
@@blank3746 Winning (or drawing) on time esp in a losing position
As someone who gets a lot of their wins from flagging, it's part of the game and there's nothing wrong with it
You’re not gonna believe it, but they invented this crazy time control called “classical” where dirty flagging is virtually impossible….
Thats why Fischer invented the Fischer Clock.
nice one. underrated
is this a joke?
@@thewhatever993 No, look it up. It is an invention by chess legend Bobby Fischer. If they were using the Fischer clock this wouldn't have happened.
This is why I play with increment every time I take chess seriously. When I'm messing around (most of the time) I play without increment that way I can keep playing lost positions
totally
Good for you
yeah.... it's soooooooooooooooooooooo frustrating to have a winning position and lose on time cuz there's no increment and you wasted too much time to think to get a winning position XD
"...that way I can keep playing lost positions" People like you are the problem. If you've lost on the board you've lost theoretically and morally. You might as well have Carlsen standing behind you, leaning over and making your moves for you. You didn't win the game -- you recorded a "win." If you're playing for money or playing in a tournament with a cash prize, then fine: but that's not really chess, it's somewhere between working and gambling.
@@DieFlabbergast people like him aren’t the problem. Adding the no increment makes it more fun for me because it makes me feel like the playing field is more equal. If you can’t beat someone within the allotted time and you can’t manage your time enough where you end up too much time thinking, then too bad. That all adds to the fun of the game for me. Even for me when I have winning positions and then run out of time, I get angry at myself for a second for not being faster and smarter, and then I move on to the next game without dwelling too much on it. I wouldn’t say the guy himself is the problem. If you don’t think that’s fair, change the game mode and play incremented.
Kramnik strongly discouraged the whole trend, when top level players participate in flagging. He said, he has no questions to both Keymer and Andreikin personally, but he would oppose this new trend to play until time ends instead of drawing.
Hahahahahaha nope. It's funny he's the winner. Suck it
Or, to put it in a nutshell: a gentleman resigns when he has lost. (But now you have to explain the concept of a "gentleman" to the younger generation.)
@@DieFlabbergast Yeah, but you have lost, if you got mated. And to mate Keymer here, he needed time, which he hadn´t, so....
true, by the way in real chess pre-move doesn't exist
@streamx3m a gentleman resigns when he has lost. (But now you have to explain the concept of a "gentleman" to the younger generation.) Someone else wrote this I am just pasting it here for morons
Of course it was ok by rules and we all know the problems about playing with no increment, but on the other hand we all feel why this was especially cheap and probably puts the older generation in a structual disadvantage. Keymer was clearly beaten on the board and for Kramnik it just feels so disrespectful. Everybods feels this way when getting flagged, but the younger players are used to it and normally there is not that kind of money involved.
I understand Kramnik, but it's not really to blame on Keymer. Kramnik wasted a lot of time in the last moves and if you want to avoid stuff like this just give the players +2 or +5.
blablabla, you know your strengths, you know your weaknesses, you know the rules, you play accordingly. If you waste time and then you can't mate someone on a winning position while pre-moving in order to not get flagged, that's on you.
All these commentators have never played over the board blitz. Kramnik himself has played on in lost positions trying to flag people like Kasparov. I feel that he himself is really disrepectful of the younger generation. Because he was world champion he respects deference where he should get none.
@@null8295 it was his connection
@@privatevendetta Keymer didn't just flag. He played a purposely bad move, giving up his rook, so that Kramnik would be shocked and take more time to play the move.
@@georgepantzikis7988 finally someone who actually understands the sh!tty move Keymer did in the last Kramnik's second and all the last seconds before it. That wasn't chess. It was just an opportunist of the tech involved (internet latency, mouse click registration, etc) on a completely CHESS lost position. He may have won the game, by using those ''outside chess'' factors, but Kramnik beat him in chess. That's why it is so ridiculous doing this on a professional level. They are not just random dudes on an online chess platform like you and me.
its just old vs young
The lesson: time is the enemy of all, there is no escaping it, not even in chess.
The real problem is the possibility of pre-move. Keymer had like two seconds and Kramnik like 10 so without pre-moves he could never make it in time. Not sure Kramnik even knows what a pre-move is and that's why he lost.
Hikaru NATOmura talks a lot about how much psychology there is with premoves. It's a totally artificial thing that has nothing to do with the game of chess.
You could technically premove in real life. If you watch Ben FINEGOLD play against kids, in the beginning he blitzes out 10 moves in 1s. He moves just before the opponent hits the clock so when he finishes the move, the opponent just hit the clock and then Ben hits the clock
@@sxkjknjw2 Yes but he can see what the opponent is doing, he can see his moves before the clock is pressed. In online chess you can't.
@streamx3m I am not Kramnik fanboy. I just like chess.
If Kramnik doesn't even know what a premove is, maybe he shouldn't try to play elite level speed chess? Premoving is a necessary skill at that level. If Kramnik doesn't even know what it is, he will lose, and deserve it.
This is exactly why this is not a rapid tournament. How many rapid tournaments do you see with zero increment?
It's a blitz tournament.
No it's based on the base time. Increment is a relatively new idea. In the 90's and prior (including Kramnik's era) everyone used analog clocks and there was no increment.
Who cares? Why does it matter if it's called blitz or rapid? The point of the video is to show someone losing a drawn/winning position simply because there is no increment.
@@joncleek5406 You can lose a drawn/winning position with increment too. Flagging is flagging and time management is part of the game. Pre-moving isn't, that's the problem here.
yes, but in the 90's nobody flagged in a clearly drawn or losing position, back then sportsmanship still existed nowadays those sportsman moral rules doesn't exist
@@teodorul9280 This has nothing to do with sportsman moral rules. Time management is part of the game. And if you are unable to manage your time in a game, there is no one to blame except the player himself. And dont forget that Kramnik himself flagged people in lost positions.
"Now we don't get to see Kramnik play tomorrow." Damn.
"im famous fucking legend and this random fucking fucking FUCKING FUCKING FUCKKKKKK"
- Vladimir kramnik
Someone had even written: "Keymer could have done that with Nakamura, but not with Kramnik". Legends and age have to be taken into account in an official tournament. Of course that's nonsense.
Better suggestion, they could change the rules by turning off the premoves feature. Very easily. But don't get upset afterwards.
No. He always says good about Andreikin, but this situation is very stupid. And he (In all of his videos on Levitov Chess) never said any bad things about Andreikin skills, he will never say something like that (Andreikin is #20 in ELO)
All good and all rules were followed, no incident at all. If any incident then that Kramnik made some noise when someone followed rules. Flagging in case of zero increment is a standard strategy in online chess.
yes correct, and rules followed, thats why online chess sucks.
you can follow rules and still disrespect someone.
It’s not only standard in online chess it was standard otb before Fide started using increments Kramnik himself did this in some games of his.
@@abdul-rahim9816 it’s not disrespectful when it’s literally common and even your opponent did similarly OTB. If that kind of play annoys you just don’t use 0 increment.
@@abdul-rahim9816 you can, but this is not what happened here.
That's absolutely normal in Blitz and bullet online games, they crash their pieces into your face in last seconds to try to make you loose more time creating confusion. The crazy rook especially happens millions of times and, in this particular case it was easy to guess it would happen, easy to prevent too if you are used to blitz and bullet online games, maybe Kramnik is not used to it or it's hard to him to change his solid "over-the-board classic chess player mentality" at this point, but online fast games are a different story and last seconds flagging skills counts as much as how good chess you can play or even more at times!
If a tournament has a time control you don't like, it's fine not to play it and even to advocate for the time control to be changed in the future. But if you do choose to play the tournament, you've gotta accept that the clock is part of the game.
100%
Cant believe the amount of grown man whinig in this comment section
Stfu. You'll never amount to 0.01% of what Kramnik achieved
Online chess not good for old people
Flagging is an important skill people.
When chess becomes more about broadband connections, speed of one's mouse clicks and running out a no-increment clock, the beauty of the game is lost. I get it...this is a large part of online speed chess and it does make for exciting games watching the clock decrease but in the end, the true loser is the game itself. It's an old-timer's opinion I suppose, considering I began playing in the late 60s.
I started playing chess seriously about five years ago and I agree. The flagging is a game within a game, which is obviously to the benefit of those who grew up using computer mice (myself included), but it is just as much, if not more, an arcade reflex game like whackamole or air hockey, or a twitch-based shooter like call of duty or counterstrike, as it is chess.
But thats what happened with most spheres of life... its just now happening in Chess. And all of this, because of money. Correct me if i am wrong :P
If you don´t want time to be a factor, then dont play a tournament with no increment. Easy. Playing a game and complaining about the rules after loosing is just bad manners....espacially the way he did with a salty essay.
No, no, you have a point.
@@xdcfvghbjnk I believe he no longer plays this format due to the Tetris style mini game at the end
What's the point of playing with no increment? Just start an increment once there's less than a certain amount of time on the clock, no chess player enjoys these situations when there's simply not enough time to move the pieces without premoves.
Plenty of chess players prefer no increment, what are you on about?
Kramnik needs to learn how to pre-move.
well, Kramnik was us all when we lost our first winning game due to flagging
time changes, nowadays its not only important to be good at chess, but also at online mechanics.
Nah you just need to stop playing 10+0 and start using time increment like in literally every Rapid and Blitz game OTB nowadays.
Yeah if you aren't versed in multipremove at top play then you should just quit as Kramnik had done! GJ!
Time changes...
This is one of the most stupid and dangerous argument.
Over the board blitz was more vicious than this.
Way but this is bullshit this wasnt about chess it was about who could physically move their pieces the faster with their mouse
On Levitov Chess he said everything about Keymer and Andreikin about this accident.
Shortly he very and verh disapointed and said that this is highly unrespectful..
e4 e5 Ke2 is disrespectful, this is ok
Most top-level chess players don't care much about things like that, but Kramnik has a real need for being respected.
@Gil Monteverde I disagree, Kramnik himself played on in a situation like this.. watch at 10:10 ruclips.net/video/5Pxf7fataAU/видео.html
@@eljanrimsa5843 Is mutual respect not 'normal' now?
@@martinm3422 that's called armageddon.
A related problem of short time format live online chess is slow internet service in some countries or locations. A player's time starts running down before he has even seen the last move.
Yeah...
“Just resign” why resign when you can win?
who is here after kramnik started petition🙋♂
Changes the rules (very simple: removes the premove-function) but doesn't whine when a young player is playing by the rules. Time, also with premoves, is a part of the rules.
It's just a silly way to win. Nobody is taking Vincent's victory away from him.
@@rafaelrafaelrafael Yes, you are right, it's a silly way to win, but part of the game by now. If you've followed the scene, including Nakamura's game, then you're training for it. And now comes a well-deserved old master and should one then forget it?
Stop pointing that finger. I'm sure if the story had been reversed you would have applauded Kramnik. But as....
@@ScaramouchedaVinci it's part of online chess. Not really part of OTB. That's why it's fair to consider online chess a bit silly. Specially in short time controls. I don't care about Kramnik. It's not about old and new. It's just a criticism of a game mode which leads to silly things like that. I think it's fair some people don't like it. I personally find bullet chess and these sort of games deeply unsatisfying. The fun part of chess are the calculations and the complicated positions players navigate into and out of. For instant reward and fast play I find mobas and RTS significantly more fun. Bullet chess is the worst of both worlds for me.
@@rafaelrafaelrafael yes in OTB tournaments this doesn’t happen at the moment. However this is due to the fact that nowadays nearly every Blitz and Rapid game over the board is played with time increment. In the past when for example Blitz was played with 5+0 OTB even high level players (Kramnik too so it’s kind of hypocritical of him to say that Chess isn’t a gentleman’s game anymore) tried to flag in dead lost or drawn positions. So you can discuss removing premoves that’s an other story, but the real solution is just to stop playing without time increment and suddenly this things don’t happen anymore we are all happy and we don’t have to blame someone for following the rules.
You don’t even have to remove premoves (even though I wouldn’t have a problem with them being removed) you can just stop playing 10+0 and start using time increment.
If GM refuses to join tournament without increment, it will be justiciable. Even an expert needs time to think what opening he ia about to do.
It's part of the game. Kramnik still plays online, hope he's learned to adapt
That commentary was spot on😂😂
such a mess to deal with generation gap .This feel so harsh .if you have bad position you lose its admissible to have it as a lesson but when you have wining advantage and you are also capable on converting it but you lose on time it is heartbreaking .I had once thrown away my phone for this type of flag
Newer generation is lazy using tactics such as time constraints is just lame. This is not a movie where hero finds a loophole in the system and wins. You are litrally wasting time and no viewer like me would enjoy watching the game and it would loose its glory. If ur a player who has this tactics in usage mind this nobody respects you.
@@words007 🤡
@@words007Dude If you play a Game that has a time Limit, you beat the time Limit, thus Play fast. Everything else would be losing on purpose.
Why make risky moves, when you are not sure If you can checkmate? The opponent is defending so am i, the difference is i am using my time Advantage
If i see that i cannot win
@@words007 you're not using this tactic and nobody respects you anyway
I'm interested in what makes you use punctuation and spaces the way you do. Are you trying to be edgy? On dating apps your way of writing is a sure telltale sign of accounts created by scammers.
To have basically won by all standards other than reaction time would be very frustrating.
It'd be more frustrating to have your opponent complain that you beat them under the rules you agreed to before you started.
He wasnt winning that game it was a drawn position until that last time draining surprise check. It was a clock race from the start of the clip to the end. Both players should have been trying to prove that the other would be the first to fail to 3-fold or hit the 50 move rule in the time they each had left. OTB what happens is instead of that surprise check draining the others clock, they dont even notice they are in check, make an illegal move, and because of that their flag is down. Its the same thing, both online and otb.
@@johncampbell3940 In which case the rules are in fact dogshit
@@johncampbell3940 This is true.
It's also true that the rules were dogshit.
Those two things are not mutually exclusive, and the admins should be ashamed and are 100% to blame
@@styleisaweapon There was nothing drawn about any position in this clip.
If you are up on material and low on time it usually means you used that time to gain a material advantage. Now you have a time disadvantage. Every action has an equal but opposite reaction.
Kramnik's reaction was like when the gamer kid gets surprised like "what noob???"
When u play without increment, flagging ist quite normal. It´s just another world of chess than Kramniks.
100%
look how they massacred my boy.
rip James caan
Time always hurt me too.
It was a spontaneous quit.
He was here, then just left
Interesting
He once mentioned in his banter blitz session he doesn't like the idea of flagging someone with a losing postition hence he went for 3 min 2 sec increment fisher system, he is a gentleman of the game ,he don't care these filthy flags
he did it aswell in the past...
What are you talking about
He had no problem doing it himself when he was fast enough.
Now that hes increadibly slow he wants other people to gift him he win ?
Thats rediculous
Have an increment in these tournaments.
spoiler: he didn't
Personally, I don't blame Keymer at all because they were just playing by the rules and because Kramnik did waste a lot of time with 10 seconds left. I think it should have had an increment because it was professional, but we shouldnt expect someone to give up a potentially winnable game just because its "honorable".
I like to think this was the turning point for Kramnik when he went full tilt. Probably a huge reason he hates online chess so much, and now is willing to falsely accuse reputable top players to achieve this increasingly desperate plan to take down online chess.
This is a bigger disappointment when it came from Keymer I believe.
Keymer is playing in Challengers Chess Tour (you know this Team Polgar vs Team Kramnik tournaments), and Kramnik back then strictly adviced youngsters to not to flag an opponent.
And today your 'student' flags you like he learnt nothing from you.
So Kramnik did never win by time or used time to win? I dont believe that at all. I can understand his frustration, but his statement afterwards showed that it is really him who has no sportsmanship.
@@xdcfvghbjnk Losing "by time" in complex positions vs losing by time in entirely winning endgame position isn't the same.
@@kimgysen10 True, but having a winning position and having won isnt the same either.
nobody is forcing you to play speed chess people , this tactic was a thing 30 years ago and it is a thing now . Its part of speed chess and nothing more
"forever"
Too slow
Future is now, old man
No, the future is the future. Now is now. Maybe your time is up and you have no future.
You will be an old man if youre Lucky one day, boy
@@hichamelbachari2655 ok boomer
@@hermionegranger7849🤡
back in my day.....
A normal dude would just hit the screen or slam the keyboard
I think the problem not in increment or flagging, but on premove tools
Premoving is an integral part of online chess. Plus it's not unfair, both sides get premoving
interesting
Keymer played by the rules. If you don't like the format then don't play, just like Magnus doesn't play the world championship
This was only the beginning of him losing his mind
sheesh i felt the disrespect to kramnik xD
Dang I can’t believe Vincent Keymer cheated against Kramnik. How interesting
Statistically
All tourneys and matches should have an increment of at least 2 seconds. If there is no increment I won't enter the tourney. I never play without an increment. It's a personal choice by the player.
It looked like both sides were valdimir kramnik with my glasses off. Both having the initials V.K. is something I just now noticed
Cryinmick
Compared to Kramnik and his chess legacy, Keymer is nothing but a dwarf. He should have been grateful to just have his attention for the duration of this game. Instead, he displays the hustler attitude that has become the dirty standard in online blitz.
This is a professional tournament with serious money on the line. Not only was what Keymer did well within the rules, but also an extremely common tactic. That said, I feel for Kramnik because that's a really shitty way to lose and to have a tournament without increment is just bonkers.
Keymer has to say I'm happy to play against you, thank you very much Mr. Kramnik, and so I resign. Serious?
@@thesnackbandit As if Keymer is struggling with money 🤣🤣. Keymer showed zero class with his dirty little tactic.
@@harryfalm3118 What does it have to do with struggling for money!? If there's an opportunity to earn more, only a slim minority would chose not to even try. It's a ridiculous premise. Try to use your brain before commenting something so obviously flawed.
With the way Kramnik’s been running around recently, I think Keymer is fine with just being top 20 in the world as a junior
Fischer has already told us that there have to be an increment :)
At least 1 second increment, preferably 2 should be used in tournaments
unpopular opinion: he should have managed his time better
True story
Yeah, all the 'this is so harsh' comments are really weird to me. He lost on time, it's a thing. Don't go cry about it being disrespectful after you lost. Weird.
Hé had more time do you réalise!? Just an old man with less mouse skill…At this level, it is disrespectful, specially versus a former WC
Can u look at the clocks? Vlad had 10 secs initially while Keymer had 2
@@platonfoucault1087 turns out part of speed chess is speed
Flaging is part of chess, kramnik should not play if he has any problem in flaging lol
No it’s not
A win is a win, but this is probably the least deserving one. It’s not like Kramnik had bad time management, he was legit 10s vs 2s. He just didn’t know endgames online are actually Tetris
bro is NOT a gamer
These are pros , when money is on the table anything goes with in the rules . The clock is part of the game not an inconvenience
But this isn't chess.
@@abhishekkj9664 Sure it is....Loosing by time is always a part of chess, espacially when there is no incriment. That is not even a question of online chess....
@@xdcfvghbjnk am sorry, Blitz time controls with no increment isn't chess in my opinion, its a spectator sport .
No wonder classical championship is synonymous with chess champion.
@@abhishekkj9664 Thats a valid opinion, but...Kramnik played this tournament so he can not complain about the rules afterwards.
This is not chess. This is a war of better internet connection and mouse scrolling and clicking ability. Chess ended as soon as the opponent was in a 100% losing position.
Why would he resign? If you dont like the game change the rules or dont play
What's your point? That's exactly what Kramnik is doing: he said he won't ever play that again. Because it's stupid.
Fair, but the commentator said Vincent should have resigned and i'm not too sure about that.
@@VivaLaFlaem So, he totally lost the chess game. Why not to accept the failure like a man of honour? Fast clicking is not a chess, it is just fucking fast clicking. What did he showed by this behaviour? - disrespect, antifairplay. Especially when he plays against a legend. And the fact that premoves and flagging are common things nowadays doesn't do these more honorouble.
@@user-gb1xy2oc9m This is a professional tournament with serious money on the line. Not only was what Keymer did well within the rules, but also an extremely common tactic. That said, I feel for Kramnik because that's a really shitty way to lose and to have a tournament without increment is just bonkers. There shouldn't be pro tournaments without increment, it's just ridiculous..
Why is premoving still a thing in prize tournaments.
Ngl that was funny as hell
Time management is part of the game
How a villain was born.
Looking at the times, there was 0.2 secs increment? what is even the point of having 0.2 secs increment?
That's what Kramnik can't understand. This is just ANOTHER type of chess game. Round!
only one that could be blamed is tournament officials. Hopefully they learned their lesson and next time rules will be different.
the rules are the same for everybody and they’re known well in advance - flagging is a legitimate strategy. if you don’t like 0 increment short time control events - dont play in them. great win for Keymer
'Great win for Keymer'
You were going well until you posted that bullshit, calling it a 'great win' is about as out of touch with reality as you can get
@@johnbowman3630 any win by the rules against a former world cham is a great win. any. while throwing tantrums like a little bitch is unbecoming of a former world champ .
pre move should NOT be a thing in chess.
This aged well
In Kramniks honour, from now on, when your time is up, you win.
underrated comment
White is now a forced win with 0 moves, pass it on
Basically the mistake is Kramnik's. Why to participate in a tournament where they play with no increment?
Keymer is using pre-moves, which will not possible in face to face chess.
They both are playing by the same rules and in online chess this is still extremely common, even at the master level. Entering the tournament, they know and agree to the format. It really shouldn't be a big deal. Managing your time is a part of the game, Kramnik needs to grow up.
Look at how Kramnik played though. He literally played Ke3 Ke2 Kf2 Kg2 Kg3 Kf4 Ke3. Those were his last 7 moves. So what was his plan? Was it not to flag his opponent as well?? He could've just played f2 after his opponent played Ra2+ but he decided to no-brain move his king randomly. If he was playing the best moves on the board and got flagged that's frustrating but he literally was playing to flag his opponent when he could've EASILY shielded his king from checks using his bishop and rook while promoting his pawn.
Have you seen the time? Did you notice that he just couldn't make moves quickly? How blind you are...
Rules are rules. Dirty flagging is part of the game. So Kramnik needs to get better at that or they needed to have an increment. You could also have a buffer, instead of an increment. As in, you never gain time, but you always have at least 5 seconds to move before your timer starts going down again. That makes more sense to me.
In my opinion this is not dirty flagging. Both were short on time. Kramink had even more time at the beginning, but showed a very bad time management.
Dirty flagging for me is when someone played a clear dull draw position forever with senseless moves only to win on time.
its simply part of the game
When you have the ability to to create games with increments, you should do it to avoid these kinds of ridiculous things happening.
If he doesnt want to play anymore because of this its his choice but please he shoulndt say anything bad about keymer nor the way he flagged since flagging is an important part of rapid and blitz
Flagging is possible but that doesnt make it less scummy
@@hichamelbachari2655 its not scummy, scummy is when you dont play any move at all until your time ran out
@@maximussaktish thats also scummy
@@hichamelbachari2655 there is money involved its not scummy, its just dumb to play in such a tournament if you are not used to playing online and cant click fast enough like kramnik
OVER THE BOARD IS FOR REAL MEN
Increment is for real man
time is part of the game and so is flagging, sadly though. This all depends on the tournament organizers, if they do not want to see flagging then place increment in time control. flagging is fun and bullets attract a lot of audiences but so do the strong legendary players playing. If you are inviting players of an older generation then I feel an increment is necessary. If Legends like Kramnik do not feel good playing chess, then it has to be considered carefully. In the end, we want the event to be fair and bring fun to players and audiences.
Anyone remember what gata kamsky said when someone did that to him. "I'm a real fucking legend", or something.
I always thought it was more respectable to concede in a hopeless position, versus a strong player, than swim around over the board, hoping against hope the stronger player slips up. In my book I'd rather win through skill, than beg a win through default. If in football, a team does its utmost to get opponents sent off, who applauds is who introduced it..In cricket, is bowling bouncers at tail-enders and sledging, a path to victory? Again - who applauds is who profits by it. These are degradations of the sporting code. Many on here take it further by slandering an all-time chess great as 'old man', as if maturity is less deserving of dignity. Equally shameless are those adorning their antics with the figleaf of: "no rules were broken". Those unable to govern themselves and their moral poverty internally, must be governed externally by rule changes..which they then complain about, saying 'regulations are killing the game'..their game! No matter how this is spun, it is another example of 'survival of the fittest' really meaning 'survival of the weakest', as those of greater substance see no need to adopt lesser means..
Clock is part of the game. Inability to manage the clock is a legit way to lose a game. Losing because of the clock is thus part of the game. If he didn't want to lose like this he should have managed his time better in other portions of the game as all players are expected to. The clock represents the time a player has to make their moves, if a players clock reaches zero, they lose in cases such as this because they are unable to make any more moves. Your argument is akin to suggesting that a player should be able to make moves and "score" after regulation has expired...and this is simply not how these games work.
@@Tyrantofthewind well said!
@@Tyrantofthewind I think you need to re-read my comment. If I were suggesting a former world champion is suddenly unable, or has no requirement to manage his clock, yours would be the perfect answer. Because I am debating a matter of principle, I cited a number of parallel examples in other disciplines, where rules do not apply, in order to better illustrate my point.
Why not write a pre-move guide to chess strategy, and autograph a copy to Vladimir Kramnik; since you seem better placed to advise super GM's concerning this aspect of 'managing the clock'?
@@a.m.armstrong8354 You suggested such a win is akin to a default, it is not. You are the one who needs to read your own message.
He wasn't hoping against hope. He was hoping rationally, and the game result supported it.
Time is important too. It is part of the game. You cannot claim victory on position or titles. Chess is brutal. Kramnik knows. Nobody enjoys losing like this, but it is within the rules.
I know Keymer is a good player. But seriously, it is the only chance he has against Kramnik. I don't blame them.
All serious chess has increment . Only then time becomes important imo.
Nobody does resign in those positions in very fast chess games.
10 seconds vs 2 seconds, hello???
Flagging was invented to crush big egos.
Time is part of the game. Nothing else to say.
internet latency, mouse click input lag, internet speed, none of that is part of the game because that's NOT equal conditions. Dude, in a real match, you see your opponent's hand. You can move according to that action as a reaction. But online chess doesn't have that. The last sh!tty move by Keymer is just an opportunist check to stop almost any action on Kramnik mouse and clicks for 1 second. Also, the premove system favors the person with less pieces on the screen to move randomly for 0.1 of a sec the same piece again and again. The person who is winning by a lot of pieces has to take more time and can't premove ramdomly, (otherwise it would be dace of stupid pieces around the screen that even a monkey can make). He can only premove on a checkmate patern if there is one. That's the reason on a professional level these types of ''moves'' are just garbage. Only people who CAN NOT win by playing chess does that. It's way different when you are nobody facing random and casual people when there is nothing serious behind that game you play.
The way to solve this is by turning off the premove system for serious and high level tournaments. Nothing else to say.
@@ieorlich All of the elite blitz competitors are able to work around this. Even giving you those points, kramnik had 5x the time (10 seconds vs 2) in no way should he have been the one flagged, but he took too long to think instead of just making moves. Don't critique the system when you lose, improve and come back better
@@epintherager9479 I think it's important to critique the system. That's how improvements are made. Winning a lost position purely on reaction lowers the average skill level of all top players. I personally don't like this
@@hendrikalla4567 That's fine, but then you shouldn't enter these types of competitions. Online blitz chess is a different beast to even otb blitz. If you've ever seen a streamer or RUclipsr play you can tell the last 10-20 seconds of the game is just about making quick moves not good moves, and kramnik wasn't prepared for it
@@ieorlich TL;DR
"just resign" what. for honor?
Bullets are totally different universe