Why One Piece succeeded and Cowboy Bebop failed.
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2023
- #FormerNetworkExec #CallMeChato #onepiece
Is it all about fan service?
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Oda was watching them like a hawk the entire time. He made them reshoot so much. The moment he leaves they will screw up One Piece
Facts and he picked the cast
I'm more worried about Oda dying before finishing the manga. But you're spitting facts.
@XartiXV he has a large team helping him and extensive notes.
Look at Dragonball Evolution, they completely ignored Toriyama and we got that epic disaster
@@KamiAnimeS1I wonder if Oda also picked Nojiko... who's barely tanned in manga/anime and completely black in the live action 😂 I agree most of the cast is spot on, but let's not pretend Netflix didn't fill at least some of his usual checkboxes
You can definitely tell when a show is made by people who love the source material. And when they hate it. Bebop deserved better.
Agreed. I feel like John Cho was the only one who was passionate about the project & gave it his all; the rest were just actively virtue signalling or fighting the fans. I feel so sorry for him
One thing I loved was how Oda said no romance between the crew. Romance usually ruins a show for me, specially when its not part of the original work.
Agreed. That sounds like a good idea.
I agree. The source materials for OP are so rich with content to draw on, new forced subplots (like romances) are just a waste of resources. I do like how the live action production has been blending manga and anime story beats while abridging what they can, and even layering deep cut references to places and characters through set design and music. They condensed around 100 chapters into 8 episodes.
My only complaints would have likely been avoided if they had stuck with a 10 episode season. Though I still enjoyed the final result and look forward to seeing how far they will go with the story.
Syrup village, Baratie, and Cocoyashi village could have benefited from an extra 15-30 minutes of development on screen.
Ussop missed out on most of his early character development against the black cat pirates. Just showing his interactions with the Ussop pirates may have been enough to establish his cowardice and emphasize his brave moments.
Baratie was handled much better with Sanji, though it is a shame that they didn't show some of the scenes that really inspired Sanji to follow Luffy (and begrudgingly respect Zoro).
The show may also need to make clear how strong many characters are in comparison with others. Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji are monsterous compared to Nami and Ussop, as fighters. Each of the crew have specific strengths that serve their captain and each other. In the manga, Luffy tells Arlong that he can't cook, he can't fight with swords, he cannot navigate, and he can't even lie- that he would be nothing without his friends!
The showrunners stated the desire to at least reach the end of Water 7 and Enies Lobby. Marinford would be the best conclusion to this series, setting up a potential post time skip series.
Totally agree! *remembers the strange love story in the hobbit movie*
Once Piece's main thing is the idea of "nakama" which roughly means friends, compatriot, or comrade. It is all about the crew. Throwing in romance in there would change the balance and ruin it.
That's why Naruto did so well. Teenage crushes but nothing casual with throw away sex. Only after the adventure, and they became adults and got married off screen.
I think that the biggest reason One Piece was successful was the creator Oda insisted on involvement in the entire process. Beebop's co-creator said he could barely make it past the opening credits (which tells me they never bothered to even ask for his help)
They asked for his involvement in the live action Bebop but, it really was just to give the show legitimacy in the eyes of the public, which completely backfired on them when he went public about the way they had either ignored or dismissed his input.
Because Oda has the power to put his foot down because he owns his series!
Similar story with Legend of Kora, which was an excellent single-season program that was forced to be dragged into three.
The creators objected and the story wandered because of it.
@@steprockmedia I lost interest in LoK almost as soon as I started watching it. They had already established in AtLA that avatars, while having the ability to use all four elements, still had to be taught how to actually do that, and traditionally traveled to the other nations to learn from the masters. Seeing Korra using all four at once as a small child without any training at all reeked of, "She is the bestest avatar evar! Grrl power!", which just turned me off of the show. Personally, I would have been fine with her becoming the most powerful avatar ever but, not when they're throwing out their own canon that they've already established to drive it home that quickly.
Apparently, Watanabe sent them a notebook full of notes after seeing what they were doing but they didn’t use any of his notes, but could say, with a grain of salt, that they had his input.
Chato: Pirates are low tech
Franky: I'm gonna do what's called a pro gamer move
Vegapunk: Hahahahaha
Just wait till he sees the egg head arc lol
Tech in One Piece can range from medivial era to space sci-fi. Whicg honestly is logical since One Piece is a giant world, and tech don't get adapted by all, just like real life. The onyl thing we don't get to see is a camera lol.
@@pxh6129 The Bounty Posters are literally photos in universe so yes we do get cameras
I feel like maybe chato hasnt watched a lot of one piece because it gets ridiculously wild after arlang park 😂😂😂 that's why i watched the whole thing, odas imagination is "ridiculous " just like joyboys powers 😂😂😂
9:59 "There is no shame in fulfilling the key expectations of the fans." Well said. Since we are talking about fans of the top selling manga (and I believe it has even surpassed sales of Batman and Superman) of all time; well that is a lot of fans.
well, i even saw in the reddit the fans rewatch it just to up the view numbers. The power of fans, that is.
I'm more impress if a show manage to fulfill fans' expectations in the first place.
@@backupdset471 well, OPLA is successful because it attracted non-fans like me
Fans are the ones paying the bill ultimately. Shitting on your core customers is one of the most mind boggling things to me. Fan service imo is a way the creators tell their customers they are appreciated. My biz partner is a massive OP fan, our workshop is filled with those 2-3k a pop massive resin cast OP display statues, there about 12 of those and he never disclosed to me how much he actually spent in total. I’m not an OP anime or manga fan, but gave the live action a chance since my reaction was Netflix actually made a good adaptation, I gotta see it to believe it. I finished it in 3 days, was not disappointed at all. I was engaged the entire way. I’m even thinking of giving the anime another chance now.
@@sunkistmango2414 Hey, welcome to the One Piece fandom! Whether it is manga, anime or the live-action, enjoy making theories, laugh at the Strawhat shenanigans and enjoy the expansive OP world. You are always welcome here.
The PR being hostile to the fans hurt Cowboy Bebop a lot, One Piece had no PR blunders. I hope this is a change in how the audience is advertised to.
One Piece has the benefit that the western dub was censored, fans from the Dub will have less problems. The JP version was not seen as kid friendly, lots of small cuts.
With a fanbase as massive as One Piece has, PR being hostile wouldve been them essentially cutting off their nose to spite their face.
Bebop on the otherhand is a single TV anime and a 2 volume Shojo(?) Manga that adapts and rewrites the anime (Ed in this is manga Male).
And it's heyday was in the late 90s.
yeah, One Piece is literally the best selling comic in the world. Any marketing team worth their salt would know that offending the fans in any way might cause the show to fail, even if it is good. @@RaifSeverence
@@RaifSeverenceShojo jump is the girls manga magazine.
The story of Cowboy Bebop, the original, was about people who couldn't move on and always ended up in the same place. It was a procedural story. At the end and beginning of every show the crew was hungry, had enough money to make it to the next bounty, and didn't learn or grow. That unique way of telling their story is what makes it interesting. Each member of the crew had their own personal problem that provided mystery of their past, and an their interesting take on their bounties. These personal problems where dealt with during the show and would make perfect season endings. This is the prefect show to turn into a Law and Order knock off. Their failure is lack of understand of the source material, lack of faith in the source material, bad casting, and bad writing.
It was about loneliness. They couldn’t even make it feel like that
Oh yeah. Meanwhile la OP theme of Nakama/ camaraderie felt strong, even on their advertisements
Spike was a man with no future. Faye was the girl with no past , and jet only lived in the present
its basically , it's always sunny in Philadelphia but in future
Now that is show I need to see. Sunny in Philadelphia is one of the greatest shows ever made. @@maosama3695
As you mentioned, both shows were made by Tomorrow Studios. But I think letting them made One Piece was also one of the right choices, because they actually learned a lot of the lessons about what failed in Bebop. Tomorrow don't take weird decisions inteh script , don't change backstories to increase the drama and the actors didn't antagonize the public. Also great analysis as always :D
Facts and the goat, Oda was there
They learn from their mistake, good for now
Different set of writers and producers guys...OP was green lit before bebop, the reason OP was treated differently in the sense that they listened to Oda is attributed to Matt Owens the main producer of OP is a huge fan of the source material and Oda himself.
@@lowki07OP is the kind of manga that you either hates it or loves it. So the people that makes OP will have to be a huge fan, because non fans will just think of it as an immature big booby pirates crap with shitty arts (I actually heard people describe OP as such).
@@KamiAnimeS1 True they would have fucked One Piece up just like Bebop and Death Note with a lot of Woke trash only bcs oda was there to stop them and they said we learned yeah sure ODA is the Man.
I totally agree with Nami vs Faye's casting choice views. Emily Rudd, as you put it, is "deficient", but she exudes the confidence of Nami and that translates to sexiness. Not to mention her outfit changes matches a lot of the original material. There's all sorts of sexy that doesn't just rely on big badonka fan service, and I think Emily understands that, because she truly loves the character and OP. She didn't even need to address those differences, she just hopes that we enjoy their interpretation of the characters. And we did.
I also hate the idea that being a "girl boss" means you don't need help from anyone, but that moment when she asks Luffy for help, that moment of weakness, always always always gets me and makes me respect Nami. To me, Nami is a girl boss in both her strength and weakness. She's an imperfect girl boss. Just like us.
This is what makes characters likable. Nami has a strong personality, but at that turning point of the LA series, we see her admit to it. Those flaws are what makes them endearing. In One Piece, each Strawhat Crew has a flaw not just in their abilities but even in character. Zoro's defeat seemed, at first glance, to be his weakness, but there's one there that was underplayed and which I hope they get to show more in season 2 -- his serious lack of sense of direction 😆
@@charmmaeonineza1501It was hinted at in Syrup Village. It's a small moment and could easily be missed if you're not looking for it.
yep whole crew learns and accepts these lessons from Luffy knowing he can't do anything other than face the strongest to protect his friends, robin learning to trust, Sanji not carrying the burden of an abusive family, Jinbe having to let go of his crew to grow, and so on.
Nami at the beginning is just like the one we saw is after time skip when she changes 😅
@@lunakelly2113 There's actually two moments in Syrup Village, which really demonstrates how easily missed they are.
The first is when he's looking for the kitchen, runs into Luffy, and Luffy turns him around because he was going in the opposite direction of the kitchen.
The second is when he gets out of the well and runs into Luffy again. Luffy asks him how he knew where he was, and Zoro just says that he didn't and was trying to get back to the mansion.
I think there's another moment of Zoro's poor sense of direction but I don't remember.
As a One Piece fan, what made me want to give the live action adaptation a chance was the attitudes of the show runners and the cast. First and foremost, they made it clear that they loved and respected the source material. Plus, it was a good call on Netflix's part to release vids of the Strawhats together because the show lives or dies on the cast dynamic.
and ODA giving the straw hat to Iñaki Godoy showed how much he trusted Inaki and symbolized the passing of the mantle.
My opinion is Cowboy Bee-bop failed because it was not made for the existing fan base, but was marketed to them, thinking that they would engage the “normies” who are unfamiliar with adult animation (the people the show was made for). In a vacuum the show was not that bad. It was just not grounded in its source material, antagonizing the people that they were counting on to “sell” the show.
One focused on staying true to the source material and being fan friendly. The other actively and gleefully antagonized the fans.
Great analysis of both. I personally think “fan service” or as you correctly pointed out “meeting the audience’s bare expections” is the biggest factor. I remember when Bebop came out, someone involved with the adaptation said something to the effect that the Netflix version was going to “fix” the anime. It was pretty clear to me that they had no love for the anime going in. I think the cheapness and casting choices could have been overcome if they had respected the source material.
Anyone who uses "fan service" as an insult might as well be waving a giant red flag that says, "I have a huge ego!" on it.
Can you think of any shows or movies that actually stick to the source material? If so, please let me know!
"We're going to fix the source material" is such a disgustingly arrogant and disrespectful stance for a writer to have
Yeap. It's not fan service, it's "doing the things that got the original show fans."
"fanservice or service cut, is material in a work of fiction or in a fictional series that is intentionally added to please the audience, often sexual in nature". It's about being sexy for the teenage boys. Nothing to do with sticking to the source material.
God I'll never not be furious that Firefly was cancelled
And Fox were trying to get it canceled by showing episodes out of order.
Firefly was waaay overrated. it had great characters and witty dialogue.
On the other hand really, really crappy world building. Evil empire, so original. A venerated guild of whores, original but really stupid. Beserkers who are psychotic, extremely anti-social but could operate space ships, lol right. And then a western motif.
I did love me some Firefly, the dialog and acting were great. But I also can't say you're wrong about the whores and the reavers. I don't generally like western anything but it didn't bother me too much here, gave it that Tatooine feel.(ep4)@@terenceblakely4328
@@terenceblakely4328 I completely disagree on the world building. That's one of the things it did best. The fact the Alliance wasn't really evil but just.. monolithic and apathetic is what made them unique. They weren't the 'evil empire,' they were an uncaring civilization with the worst elements of China and the US mixed together. I mean they help people under attack, render medical aid, etc. Also again, the geisha thing wasn't that stupid - that's how geishas were in society at one point. It's part of the US-Chinese blending for the Alliance. You really misread the entire show. Also the psychotic berserkers are explained pretty well in Serenity.
Don't be. I've started being thankful for it, to be honest.
We got one nearly flawless season with the worst episode still having a lot of gold in it, followed by a great movie to finish it off. If it had continued for 6 seasons, we'd probably be talking "which season sucked," and "when the show went downhill." It didn't live long enough to see it's decline, and it got to tell a complete story thanks to the movie.
To even further recognize the casting choice for Nami, her chest size is spot on for how the character was drawn at the point of the story the live action takes place, so there isnt even any inconsistency to compensate for
To point out, Rudd fits early Nami. The image used for anime Nami really didn't happen until the time skip where Oda embraces big breasts for most of the female characters instead of more reserved like early in the series. It's sort of a joke that over the series Nami somehow gets really busty from her first appearance.
There was a three year time skip.🤷♂
@@arcanask so if a 18 years old has a C cup breast, when she is 30 years old she can have F size breast?
@@intjrovert9611 It happens, but that's not prescient to One Piece as there is only a three year time skip and all the original main crew were only in their late teens maybe early 20's at the oldest at the start.
not how breasts work lol @@arcanask
@@siyrean she just went through a second puberty like Koby 😂
It's a personal opinion but it might also have to do with the fact that the original Bebop was a half hour show and nearly all of the episodes were self contained and complete stories. The story beats and pacing were almost master classes in telling a good story with minimal fluff. It's like a classic short story from a skilled writer like Kipling or Wodehouse. Trying to stretch that into an hour long format (I know it was closer to 45 minutes but I still think in terms of broadcast tv with advertisements) was a mistake. Especially when they tried to turn Vicious and Julia into the Joker and Harley Quinn to pad the run time.
By comparison One Piece not only had more material to draw from but the stories often continued from one episode to another so it was easier to find material for the longer episodes.
Good points.
I'm told the creator (Eiichiro Oda) had significant creative control, perhaps explaining why this wasn't yet another adaptation handed to writers who'd change everything for 'modern audiences', ruining the project. While it's not guaranteed to be a winning approach, it's reasonable to assume the guy who created the best selling manga series of all time, individual issues of the manga outselling the entire US comics industry, would have an idea of what the customer likes. If there are normal people still working in Western entertainment, perhaps keep this in mind for future adaptations?
Let us see this way: Netflix Bebop is written like how 4kids adapt Japanese series to USA, butcher them to make more appealing for their own taste. OP in other hand is made following the source material closely, not changing it to appeal for current trend (strong woman, politics, etc). Heck, some "critics" complain that OP is too faithful to original (eventhough we know they deviate and trim some plots)
Surprisingly, new audiences actually like how OP presented. My parents and other senior who watch Netflix become interested to know the original manga/ anime. Really, if the original source already good, showrunners don't need to localize them too much
The creator of the script Matt Owens is a huge fan and he met with Oda who personally gave his blessing to Matt.
Mat also been involved with the One Piece community actively and works hard to make sure that he brings out the best from the anime that saved his life.
@@r3dr4te963 yeah thank God is not another woke sh*t
@@r3dr4te963 One Piece already has strong woman and is woke enough on its own. The live action still did some changes to be "woke" and not as offensive to potential audiences (blackwashing minor characters and changing Sanji's perverted attitude). This feels like another one of those comments that blames everything on wokeness if the adaptations turn out to be bad, but then ignores all the wokeness in the work if they turn out to be good.
@@flyingstapler1241look at anime Ussop. Nojiko was already black by OP standards.
It's truly weird that "fan service" is used as an insult or criticism. Fan service means giving the fans exactly what they want. If Hollywood were a real business then giving their customers exactly what they want should be their mission statement.
No doubt the cast behavior was a great game change
Nobody menton that Nami wear more clothes than the anime or that she doesnt use sex appeal or seduce the villains
Nobody bad talk the franchising neither the fans
Every critique of the cast was answered with positive optmism, not attacks
Correct
Early manga/anime Nami was just as the live action portrayed her, not overtly sexual just a simple tank top, pants, etc… I thought they hit the nail on the head!
@@christianmaxwell2147
The same can be said about Fey
Today there are people pushing the BS that she is sexualized, but no one think about that in 1998
And comparing with other Anime female characters from those past 25 years. she is normal
There were no reason to Bra that the character will dress more clothes and principally none to attack fans
Same for Snow white, not just anime
Why the heck Rachel Zegler and others fell the need to crap in the sorce material and offend who like the classics?
Its so refreshing that this didnt happened with one Piece.
Fay IS sexualized. Bizarrely so. It's the worst thing about the anime. You are just pointing out that was normal back then. You are correct. It doesn't make it ok.
@@danrimo826
Yes she is byzarrely sexualized by people like you that has some sexual problem with female figure and does that with every female character from anime, since she is the standard in anime.
I appreciate your experienced take. I agree the casting for Spike was off, but I think they got Jet right. A bounty of the week, where you weren't sure if Fey would double cross them or not would have been great.
Even with your reputation and intelligence, you'd make a better Chief Creative Officer at Disney than the current regime.
"bringing characters you like in the living room" - nailed it.
7:48 Well, a large part of that is how Oda changed his style over time. Nami grew in size a lot. The actress they picked seems to match her style of the beginning arcs of the show.
(From what I remember)
To put it bluntly, Oda gets more "thirstier" everytime he drew new chapter (Just compare girls from early chapters and latest one) But to be fair, so does the boys/ men
There are a number of things in the story that really scream 'my editor whispered in my ear' to me, and the bustification over time is definitely one aspect that really shines after the timeskip. Things have become immensely fanservicey compared to the early days: the first few hundred chapters are nothing like the middle bunch and absolutely nothing like the most recent era. But there are some other plot points too (Luffy getting angry at Zoro and fighting him on Whiskey Peak, for example) that are somewhat unlike Luffy (why not hear out Zoro for an explanation after all the arcs about trusting eachother?) but would really speak to an editors desire to shake things up for sales reasons.
I hope that the live action manages to steer clear from the most egregious fanservice when it comes to body types and super-skimpy outfits! This season is perfect in the way it is present portrayed, and while I can totally accept that provocatively clothed characters will appear, and even that Nami will embrace the finer things in life for herself now that she doesn't have to save it for others, I think there's no need to go full bikini for multiple seasons for her.
@@Aviertje the Whiskey Peak fight was out of character for Luffy simply because the dude drank a whole barrel of rum because the BW agents acting all buddy-buddy with him. Cut him some slack haha, he was drunk
@@tartatovsky Plus people forget that Zoro has killed people in the past, unlike Nami. If Luffy chose to ignore that fact, he'd be the same as Gon from HxH. And I always liked that it takes a while before the crew have absolute trust in each other. Like Nami's loyalty comes very gradually. She wouldn't die for Luffy right after Arlong Park. Some people would call that selfish since he saved her and all, but she just got the freedom she always wanted. Why would she throw it away so soon? That's why her scenes in Wano are so powerful.
There's an anime that most people have never heard of called 'Black Lagoon' that's practically identical to Cowboy Bebop in every way- from the characters to the story, from the setting to the tone, and because it's set in contemporary times rather than the future, it would be *much* easier to adapt than Cowboy Bebop was, so if the makers really *have* learned their lesson from their failure, then they should take a stab a Black Lagoon.
If they do it right, then it'd practically be a license to print money...
🍄
Since it's crime fiction, it'll be great for adaption. The only thing that will to change is some of the overly dark elements.
I'm not sure that torturing and assassinating children (even if they are crazy killers) is easy to adapt. Black Lagoon is very graphic, very brutal and very grim. That will certainly be not easy to adapt, in fact I believe, it's impossible on american television. You couldn't even make that anime today anymore.
I have heard of Black Lagoon. I’ve even seen a few episodes. It’s not my favorite anime but it’s fine.
Agreed. Another one that would be good (from the same studio too) is Claymore. It’s medieval setting could keep costs down but they would need to get the costuming right and spend some money to make the monsters look good and threatening.
@@yaldabaoth2
"Bloodsport Fairytale" (The Vampire Twins Comen) is only one storyline, and could easily be ditched in favour of more adaptable ones, but as for your "you can't make this kind of thing anymore" comment, that's bullshit.
You can make anything you damn well please, the fact that people *don't* do *isn't* the same thing.
It's not as if violence and gore have been totally eradicated from entertainment now is it, and you can bet a dollar to a dollop of dogshit that if someone *did* have the balls to do a *proper* adaptation, with *nothing* cut out, then you'd have a MASSIVE success on your hands, and the general public- the ones *without* blue hair and septum rings- would be clamouring for more.
All it takes is someone with balls.
And good business sense...
🍄
Im so happy Oda was heavily involved in this as he picked the cast
I could never imagine Cho giving the eye speech from the end of the anime.
For One Piece: While it isn't a perfect replica of the manga or anime (which would be impossible), it manages to stand on its own while remaining deeply respectful of the original One Piece characters and world. For these reasons, it's appreciated by both die-hard One Piece fans and newcomers alike. The care and love for the source material are evident in the easter eggs and subtleties, such as Garp simply mentioning Bogart by name, or skipping the Shushu scene but cleverly referencing it at the end of the episode, or omitting Richie (likely for budgetary reasons) but still alluding to a dancing lion. I'm so glad someone finally understood that an adaptation doesn't need to be an exact copy; it just needs to honor the characters, world-building, themes and ambiance of the source material.
When Nami asks Luffy for help... just thinking about it gets me! Amazing casting!
The Expanse works because even though it's high space technology which is quite realistic, it centers on much more basic story qualities: tense standoffs, political intrigue, smart action and loyalty. Not to mention also the music score is 🙌
I am sad because I was very hopeful for the Cowboy Bebop and could not care less about the One Piece. One Piece is undoubtedly an excellent anime, but it was after my days in the genre. I am happy for the fans of One Piece.
Same. CB is my all-time favorite anime, a show I rewatch pretty much at least once a year. One Piece never interested me as it came off (to me anyway) as more of a kid-focused show.
@@nothanks3236 to me personally what makes OP really popular is the story surpass that "oh its just a kid show" expectation. sure it has those "kids" element, but in the end not only outgrows it, but then also came back and mix those "kid" element again in-between, juggling between it but also maintain the balance skillfully. its actually multi layered once you get to know it.
@@zuflis Fair enough. I'd probably check the anime out but I'm intimidated by the fact it now has over 1000 episodes lol...
@@nothanks3236 you can always read the manga at a brisk pace.
@@nothanks3236 One piece is anything but a kid show, as it deals with some very dark concepts, but I understand why people think that. I would suggest to watch the anime, there is a fan version available named one pace that cut off all the fillers, watch some of it, if you feel like continuing then go on, I can only say the payback is worthwhile.
One Piece I feel was learned on the fly after what happened with Bebop. The development for this show was kept under wraps where we really didn't see any footage of it until a month or so out. We only had casting to go off of for the longest time and the only video content released was the actors showing how much they've been training to be their characters. The first episode of One Piece also felt very much like Bebop with its quality, but it ramped up heavily episode 2 onward. I think they made the first episode first some time before, and after Bebop's failure they stuck their heads down and fixed the rest of the season with what they knew, and made a better product as a result, both in film making and marketing.
These are really interesting points about the way TV shows work. Will you ever do a video on the unsung heroes of TV productions? I would love to hear more about line producers.
Maybe I can interview one for the channel.
Are you the same Walter Howard who’s the president of the Line Producers Benevolent Fund and Appreciation Society?
@@CallMeChatoThat would be excellent. There's a lot about TV production that the general audience doesn't know about, perhaps you could expand upon those aspects for us?
You are a blessing.
Informative and well put together! This was a pleasure to listen to. Thank you!
When I first saw the One Piece manga, I did not take a like it because of the weird art and whimsical tales.
But after I got to know the world and its history, I got to love the anachronistic machines and extensive world building. What's more, it gets more and more exciting with each arc.
I think everyone who gets into it has that moment--when they realise they've been getting really emotional and invested in the story of an anthromorphic reindeer or a cola-powered cyborg. And they no longer care or think it cringy, because they've entirely bought into the story.
Because the one piece live cast respected the audience while Cowboy Bebop’s cast didn’t.
Wow,
A calm, rational & thoughtful critique of anime. Hell has frozen over & I couldn't be happier. Keep up the good work.
Take care and have a good one
7:10 - its worth nothing ODA picked the actors for each role, that helps.
In General, Oda having veto rights saved this series from a number of disastrous reported changes.
Fun thing about animation vs live action.
Cartoon characters don’t need 6 months in a hospital when they get injured before they can continue working. Cartoon characters also don’t do stupid shit in real life.
If the one piece crew suffer any scandal, it's over.
While if a single animator does anything, he gets right back to work.
That is so true.
@@CallMeChato i would like your opinion on creators that only plan for one season, because they have no faith that the show will get a second season.
Then they are shocked that people like it.
While rare, i know that unexpected successful projects does happen in nearly every industry.
"Rockford Files" or... "Peter Gunn" in space?
Love the Sword Art Online shoutout! That first season was incredibly good
Thanks for the analysis
Y'know one true moment to test how woke this show is: the scene with Zoro and Kuina speaking after she defeats him when they're younger. She bring up facts of biology, but he argues fighting against the odds to fulfill your dreams is worthwhile. I thought they handled that bit super well.
Yeah, it's a very good moment.
They acknowledge the truth of the matter, but also end on a hopeful and sweet note, that only because you might think you "lack" something doesn't mean you should give up, before you ever really started trying it.
@@DatAsianGuy literal chills bruh
A common theme in Shonen stories is to overcome life's obstacles and the cards you're delt. A lot of Shonen heroes are underdogs or, at the very least, still have to work super hard to get stronger.
Remember when Keanu Reeves was supposed to play Spike?
Yep, I'm that old.
Yes, a Wick Spike would have been good.
What i love about Cowboy Bebop and other short anime, is that they respect your time and provide a high quality story.
"There are no laser blasters, computers, memory chips, space ships, or futuristic cars to worry about."
For now. Just you wait. 😂
You're the first person I've ever heard who said SAO's second season was better than the first. I'd love a video from you explaining that, because popular opinion is very much the opposite view, and your takes on show quality are always interesting.
Perhaps. I was impressed on how they managed to change it around to get a second season out of it that I thought was more mature and had grown up themes that surprised me.
I legit thought he was being dryly sarcastic!!! 😂 wow… yea, that’s a take
i totally agree with you on Bebop. if it had more Bounty of the Week stories, new ones that weren't in the anime on top of the ones we saw, that would have been fun. and i stand by that 50 year old John Cho should NOT have been 27 year old Spike. Firefly is the best live action Bebop we're gonna get
Just discovered your channel. Keep it up!
Pre Coffee monologue delivery by Chato.
I saw your take on O P and decided to give it a go. Wow thanks Chato. I had no prior knowledge of it at all and was hooked from the start. It took me back to my younger days of watching programmes without a message ( if you know what I mean ). Perhaps people who make shows like this have finally understood that their audience understand the limitations of what they can do and just want a fair stab at producing shows that stay as true as possible to the source material. Lets face it LOTR by Peter Jackson did it, as did the studio behind Arcane. Again thanks Chato. Keep up the good work. I do miss your telephone calls skits that you did.
Hahaha…😅 One Piece may seem like pure fun with the occasional sad/dark moments but it’s got a lot going on underneath the silliness. The world has a lot of parallels to historical events in our world but with their own spin. There’s coups, slave trading, censorship, genocide, child experimentation, racism, corruption, and revolutionaries. The main theme is pursuit of freedom and your dreams but all these are also touched upon. But the best part is that all sides come across as “human” with their own reasons and motivations even if the viewer may not always agree with them. There are also a ton of characters based or pirates or historical figures like Columbus, MLK, Einstein, Marie Antoinette, and Che Guevara among others
I had the same feeling!! Never watched the anime before, but I loved the show. It was amazing and did make me feel young again somehow
@@elkapi7764 I doubt the adaptation touches on those things in any meaningful capacity, rather those themes will be used to guilt certain demographics of society in the west, as other shows have proven.
@@LeonBelmont1000 I thought they did a great job setting up the nuances of the Fishman situation. I don’t think the show will get to the Sabaody Arc or Fishman Island Arc where this is fully explained cause it’s too far off. But this is a good start. We understand Arlong’s grievance and where his antagonistic superiority complex comes from. I love the deepness of One Piece Villains. Don Flamingo’s also a fun one
After thinking about OP, I know why I like it so much and it's like a breathe of fresh air. Not only is it fun adventure, but it's about the characters blowing into town or a place and helping people, much like the ol' "Wandering Hero" TV series of the 70's and 80's that I used to watch as a kid. Maybe that's not so much "fresh air" but nostalgia for what made me a TV addict in the first place.
IIRC, when they were promoting the LA Cowboy Bebop I thought they said they weren't going to be remaking the original stories. I assumed that meant they were going to do new stories, much like what Chato suggested, a bounty of the week. We already know where the characters end up. The LA shouldn't have gone anywhere near that. The CB anime movie did it correctly: just tell another story that falls somewhere between the original series episode 1 and 26.
Romance doesn't ruin a series but in a story about adventure and with an epic scale it would be hard to fit in any meaningful way.
omg I just found your channel, and I love it! so different pacing from the other reviews! also love the name "Chato" hahahah
If they had put Daniella Pineda in a costume that was closer to the anime and had her act more sexy than tough (I thought she'd been cast because she seems to have been something of a sex-pot in her previous movies), people would have liked her just fine as Faye, lack of boobs notwithstanding. Hell, even the costume they went with would have been okay if she had just acted like Faye, relying on deception more than fighting to get what she wants. Having her sashay along with the jacket slipped off her shoulders would have gone a long way toward evoking a Faye-like vibe. But as portrayed, her character was unrecognizable and that was her REAL problem.
Chato,
I’m now upset, sir. I want that version of Cowboy Bebop that you just pitched, sir.
That was exactly how I understood the anime.
At first, I was thinking of a Sherlock Homles version of Cowboy Bebop but I can definitely agree on The Rockford files version. Mind you, I was a kid during that show but I definitely remember he was a detective and he gave his own commentary on things, I think.
Overall, thank you for giving us a glimpse behind the scenes of somethings.
It’s making sense on how some of our entertainment is failing so hard.
It looks like a lot of amateurs are around within the “woke” crap, in my opinion.
Last, going back to Cowboy Bebop, I really wanted to see that Spike and Vicious fight played out in live action as you suggested, but some amazingly good liberties could be taken for a series final.
Oh well, I’m just dreaming now.
This was spot on, thanks for the work.
"Fulfilling the key expectations of fans."
Yes, also known as the paying customer. Who wants a product which isn't deceased.
Cowboy Bebop failed because the overall casting was bad and they completely ignored the show's themes (loneliness and being tormented by the past). The final straw for me was changing Jet into a divorcee who had a daughter and Faye being in a lesbian relationship with some background character.
You lot are forgetting another important detail...One Piece is one of or the greatest manga in Japan.
Netflix could never ever mess with One Piece, that would be unforgivable. Even more with their past history with other franchises, Japan and the rest of the fanbase would not ever forgive Netflix.
Outstanding commentary as always; thank you.
I had my doubt but after seeing their costumes, I was convinced
There's no need to be modest: you are a genius for any number of reasons. Comedy is clearly one of them. But your experience as a former network executive gives a unique insight that your comedy makes relevant to us regular joes. I think TV has an opportunity in streaming for new productions to go deep into storytelling but streaming services aren't taking great advantage of. It's sad because now is when we need new stuff, not retread old stuff.
Thanks, I'm blushing and I completely agree with your point.
I hope Oda stays alive and stays in the live action show for a long time
respect for saying all that in such a calm way. sub and liked! keep the work up good sir love to hear more
A good comparison Chato. Thank you for this.
I got the same feeling from Cowboy Bebop live action, that I get from modern Star Trek or Star Wars shows. They are not respectful of the source material or canon, and seem aimed at insulting and belittling the earlier productions and their fans. One Piece may have it's flaws and differ from the Anime but it never feels like it is insulting it's origins and most importantly the fans!
The one time fan service actually is an insult is when you can tell they don't give a crap about it, just wanting to shove a certain idea or scene in there to shut up the fans of the original material. You can usually predict that this will happen when the interviews before the show or movie comes out involve the creators of it not showing any interest in keeping faithful to the original material. They'll often throw in an easter egg that only the big fans would even notice, but they'll do it ham fistedly. Chewbacca being allowed to keep the medal he found in a box of stuff at the end of episode 9 instead of being given his own medal, for example. Fans had much worse to complain about in that movie, but it was still a topic of complaints about mishandling the franchise.
You just HAD to bring up Firefly, didn't you?!? **Sobs** Wash! It's always too soon!
Never got into one piece anime because of the commitment. But dear God they nailed it to the floor after looking at the live show myself and improved on it. The show don't tell is resounding in many of the episodes.
Why is "fan service" a bad word. Why would you not want to make the fans happy. I love your analysis. I really like the idea that we have only have at best a guess as to what will be successful when green lighting a project. Mostly I think that adaptations that are faithful to the source material are the ones that are successful. Can you point out some adaptations that completely diverged that were successful?
Because fan service has the implication of pleasing the male audience. In the west, men are not seen as deserving to be pleased, since that moment could have been spent berating them instead.
"Fan service" implies, or even requires, sticking to the source material.
Sticking to the source material doesn't give them much room to subvert it... and insert their own huge egos into it...
They don't get to brag about how they changed it and "made it their own" interpretation.
@@4.0.4fan service is for both men and women though, & even though opla didn’t have much of it, it still was a huge success which shows fan-service doesn’t do much for the story
A big factor was that Ichihiro Oda (the Creator) had to approve everything, this allowed for him to let the Producers/ writers. directors to go rouge
Eiichiro*
Fun review and insightful!
Cheers Chato. It's always interesting hearing your insight.
I just finished watching the One Piece live action yesterday, and I gotta say I loved it. Godoy as Luffy was outright infectious with his child-like optimism, and overall good nature. I'm not sure about Usopp, and Sanji because I haven't gotten that far in the anime yet, but Mackenyu, and Emily Rudd nailed their characters as well. When I first started watching the anime I stopped at around episode 7 because there were a few other things I wanted to watch, and knew watching OP would be a massive commitment/time suck. Now that I've gotten past that I can start watching it again.
My hope is the network execs finally see where they've been making their mistakes, and correct them for future projects. We don't need romance, social representation, or any of that other bullshit they've been slinging. The only representation we need is representing the original characters we love accurately. If you want to represent gay people in a story, write your own damn story, and leave them out of the ones they don't belong in.
This weird fixation on sexuality, and romance needs to be put to rest when it comes to shows like OP. Not everyone wants to see it, and not everyone cares. We just want to be entertained, and to keep that entertainment as original as possible when concerning adaptations.
Having zero experience in the realm of movie/tv production I may just be talking out of my ass, but I have some thoughts on at least the casting bit. I get that having a big - or at least recognizable - name attached to a project is important, and often is really the only reason a project riding the line even gets greenlit, but there are definitely things that also have to be taken into consideration, especially when you are dealing with a property that has an in-built fanbase. One of the big ones, I would think, is whether or not the person you are looking to cast has a history of shooting their mouth off and pissing off their audience. You might be able to dance around that with a fresh property, but 1) when is the last time a fresh property saw the light of production day, and 2) fans who know ridiculously minute details of the property you are adapting are going to pay attention to the production, know what was said, and take it as a personal insult (because it almost always is). You can't hire somebody who pulls a Brie Larson or Rachel Zegler and expect to keep any fan who has even an iota of self respect. (Of course, the main problem is that so many of the people doing the hiring agree with the Bries and Rachels, and have never been able to figure out why calling somebody a racist bigot doesn't engender a whole lot of goodwill from the people they're verbally lambasting.)
You can get away with fudging SOME semi-major details in casting IF the person you are casting is not a raging a-hole. Case in point John Constantine, who is blonde and British. Keanu Reeves is neither, and yet he was fantastic in the Constantine movie, and apparently there is a push from the fans for a sequel. Keanu doesn't talk shit, much less about fans, and is pretty universally liked. Hugh Jackman is way too tall to play Wolverine, but people got over it because he's a likeable guy and he played the part well. Meanwhile, Brie Larsen, who has the overall look of Captain Marvel down, is not liked by the fans at all, because she's a bitch and talks shit about fans.
The movie Constantine now is a cult classic, even to the fans. Especially to the fans I think, but when it first dropped you better believe the comic fans were not happy. So it didn't really bring in those fans or the normies because none of them ever heard of John Constantine. It kind of shares a space with the Star Wars prequels. They are flawed films but when they made them the people working on them cared about them and it shows, and I think people have come to appreciate that all the more.
First time coming across your channel, well done sir. You're low key hilarious.
Welcome aboard!
An actual once lord of Hollywood talking here about something of which I know not what. Two thumbs up regardless. (Because I like his voice.)
Honeslty the comparison with Faye and Nami shows how subtle changes can have great difference, especially with writing and over all quality. We didn't get to see whether they are actually going to tone down Nami's outfits in the future as we don't see the time skip designs, but I have a feeling I wont mind if they do. If the story is good and the acting is good, making slight changes to appeal to an audience that is more prude about sexualization doesn't matter too much. Faye wasn't bad because of a wardrobe tone down, she was bad because the writing and directing was bad, the design change just didn't help is case, and its a superficial thing that is easiest to point to when we cant verbalize the rest of the issues we have with the show. Overall, its a hard balance to strike, but adaptation should both make the fans happy and bring a new audience. If you only try to get a new audience while being loosey goosey with the accuracy it fails, and if you only appeal to fans without expanding or bringing something new to the table then theres no reason to make it in the first place. OP made itself easy to get into for new fans, while also simultaneusly being the most faithful and most creative adaptation we've seen so far, with every change being deliberate in how they can enhhance the show and work better for a live action format.
A big challenge for Bebop vs OP is that one of the biggest strengths of the anime Bebop was that is was cool AF. Everything in Bebop was cool... The characters, the music, the style, the action, the settings (even the rundown ships). Bebop was that guy people know who is effortlessly cool. He can wear a weird outfit... Still cool... Drive a weird car.... Still cool... Have messy hair... Still cool... Etc etc. That kind of cool is impossible to copy. Which is why live action Bebop is incredibly difficult to create. Its possible but very challenging. Especially when the people making it didn't even understand the original.
It is good to see that once in a while, people actually learn from their mistakes and give people what they want.
I cant agree more with this, and I didn't realize how much behind the scene stuff influenced the final product. Thank you for this.
Bebop LOOKS simple, but it's very subtle and deep. One PIece has a unique visual style too, but is MUCH more straightforward than the subtle slow burn of Cowboy Bebop's noir tale.
It's not just about the future, it's about the nuance.
Agreed.
Agree with this so much. A friend of mine said that the irony of the live action Bebop was that it was more cartoony than the anime.
If you think One Piece is straightforward, then I suspect you have no idea what One Piece is actually like. Or if you think Cowboy Bebop is subler, deeper or more of a slow burn than One Piece. Oda sets up shit in the first episodes that pays off 1000 chapters later. Oda has set up shit 20 years ago that STILL hasn't been explained or fully explored.
@@Peksisarvinen "Oda never forgets."
I made the same comparison with Bebop and Firefly, and the Bounty of the Week thing as well.
It could have been so good. Too many factors ruined it.
I think we also need to thank Oda for being such a bulldog. He was latched onto their backsides with his teeth every step of the way. That man was *not* going to let his baby get hurt.
Except for the fact that Oda was extremely involved, the creators themselves had questions that made Oda wonder on some details that he previously never considered, this shows that the rest of the crew was also actively seeking input from Oda without being dismissive. Now it could all be for publicity that such tit bits may as well have been made up, but I hope that they are true and will help keep the live action adaptation on the right course.
"Let's kick it some more!" -- perfect timing on delivery there!
Daniela Pineda single-handedly blew Cowboy Bebops chances - People weren't willing to give it a chance after she went off on the fans.
Honestly I didn't think Bebop was bad at all....Although I've never seen the cartoon it was based on I have watched plenty of Sci-Fi shows and it's a perfectly serviceable 6/10 compared to say Star Trek: Picard and Kenobi at the bottom of the rankings or Firefly and Stargate SG:1 at the top of the rankings.
If Daniela Pineda had kept her mouth shut people would have been less aggressive with their bad reviews and outright boycotts of the show.
I tried one piece after your review, but the red head girl boss was a big turn off for me and I couldn’t finish episode one. Had potential though
Girl boss? She wasn't a girl boss.
Nami is not a modern Hollywood "girl boss". She's portrayed that way early in the story for a reason. You may be pleasantly surprised with her character arc if you give the show a chance beyond the first episode.
To be fair, Nami is quite bossy in the anime as well. She flows well in the story because she becomes the ship’s navigator and, due to the rest of the crew usually being unfocused on anything besides their own strengths, she is the one who has to make sure they stay on track and get to where they need to be.
She fights marines in the anime with the no staff so it’s not something they put in the live action if that’s what you meant.
There is a turn around that will bring a tear to your eye. It doesn't work unless she's a hard head. You will see.
+1 for the SAO shoutout.
Dude you just drop Sword art online like it is nothing :D I loved that show or the first two seasons of it, great stuff :D You keep surprising.
Thank you professor for another humorous lesson.
I haven’t seen either one of these shows but I really enjoy your commentary and prospective on tv production!
Chato's delivery is more chill this week. Perhaps he's exhausted by his work on the upcoming The Prisoner episode?
I can really appreciate your knowledge of quality anime, as well as the best structure for a series, as opposed to a mini series. As a cinephile, I truly value your opinion, Chato.
the consumer gets the final say.
This is my first video of yours I've ever seen. Great analysis, but I was wondering if you'd ever consider doing the Chuck McGill breakdown scene from Better Call Saul; your voice sounds JUST like Michael McKean's!
Great video Paul
I love the review!!! ❤ saludos 👋🏽