I read Luna's book many months ago, and it was an eye-opener. The book is well worth the price. It helped me immensely. Thanks for these podcasts, too.
I really wish this was more popular. These podcast with Luna are sooo good. Teaching people how to spot the undo influence in their lives and finding a way to see past it is so beneficial for each and every person.
I've been aware of this book for years but never thought I needed it. THANK YOU for this interview. Luna, you are an excellent speaker and presenter. I am buying your book now. Luna mentioned that this should have a trigger warning on it, and I have to say that yes, so much of this video is extremely triggering, and I felt physically ill after listening to only half of it. It's worth it to listen to/watch.
Thanks for the warning! I just started, but it's good to know when a Mormon Story episode is likely to take me out. Sometimes I can listen to them and cry a little or be happy for the person's journey but sometimes I need to lie on the ground and think about the nature of existence.
Luna, this is incredibly healing. I’m sitting on the fence of whether to tell people or not, which is incredibly difficult and makes me rethink if I should try to stay or not, but this podcast episode is really clear on how truly manipulative the church is.
Life inside mormonism is like living in a meat grinder….it seems benign until you take a misstep and the “Authorities” turn the power on….then let the carnage begin…😬. Great podcast, great guest !!
It does apply to most mainstream religious folks as in the church is all the worshippers of christ in general which a lot of these mind control things can also stem from
Hi Susan, I find it annoying to have a conversation with a Mormon and in the first few minutes they ask what Ward you attend. It may come off friendly to another Mormon, but it is extreme piety to a non Mormon!
I was born and raised in Utah and the Mormon church and I hated how everyone that lives there will say the church. I was a Manager of a big retail store and they would come in and tell me they want THE church discount when being rung up. I would always act like I didn’t know what church they were talking about. I would say, “ So the church is called THE CHURCH? I don’t see that on my list of churches that get a discount. Sorry!” They would get so mad 😡 They would say…..How do you not know what THE church is? 😂
I asked my local school board to deliver curriculum so kids have critical thinking skills that could help them assess advertising and social media influence. They refused because they "didn't want kids questioning their faith." True story.
I totally had to look up the definitions of words up after I left. I felt really angry while doing it. The level of creating a fake world is unbelievable. Even down to the words we use! Words are the way we understand and communicate our understanding of this world and they perverted the words I used!!! It's so disorienting. Ugggghhhh. One example: I learned integrity is doing what god (the church) wants. No! Integrity is doing what I feel is right according to MY moral values.
Except I wouldn’t even say “according to my values” it’s more according to morality which is the well being of conscious creatures. Faith isn’t a virtue, willful ignorance is NOT a value, and praying isn’t helpful.
@@ScottBub I think I understand your point. You're saying there are underlying morals and values we sense just by being conscious creatures? I assume you mean things like not doing harm, etc. I'm coming at it more from a place of me looking inside myself and putting words to what I believe, rather than what was taught from birth. My values include autonomy, authenticity, awareness, authority over myself, safety, family, love, fun, etc. But I do believe there are underlying values applicable to everyone.
@@KitKat-gw4rh hey! I am totally with you except I was stating that we can be wrong in our own assessment or what is moral and trying to say that our values, beliefs, and wants might not line up with what is moral. I was trying to say that we need to learn as much as possible about what is morality and how to be moral and not just use our own understanding. The other things I tacked on at the end were just examples of how people can be wrong about what is moral. Hope this helps!
@@ScottBub That makes sense 🙂 It made me think of my DBT courses (Dialectical Behavioral Therapy) and how a lot of what we do is try to balance thoughts and emotions in order to be able to make wise decisions. Another thought was I had to learn how to actively listen and be respectful towards others when I realized I was hurting people by not listening to them. I guess I'm just very very wary of looking to other people for morals or guidance on how to live my life. So far I've been deeply hurt and disappointed. I just try to make sure I'm not hurting myself or others. And if I realize I am hurting someone, I do all I can to fix it. At that point, I do research to learn what I can. If something is healthy, worthwhile, and effective I'll incorporate it into my life. If not, I won't. Anyway. That was long and probably all over the place.
On my mission, we had this contact that went really well just before a discussion with regular investigators in the same apartment complex. We ended up inviting the contact to join the discussion. In the discussion, I invited our regular investigators to share their witness about the Restoration. It was one of the best lessons I ever taught. After listening to this, I don't feel very good about that lesson.
2:10:55 "forever family": I'm not Mormon, but grew up in an evangelical denomination that strongly focused on "saving" souls for the afterlife. Going to heaven was great for self-preservation (imagine the alternative, since "zero" was not an option), but it was also a way to "see" deceased family members again. Of course, this reassurance did not work if there was any doubt or idea that the dead person "didn't know the Lord." I grew up in periodic terror that I would lose family members forever if I didn't "witness to" them, even though I didn't want to have to. Their eternity could literally be influenced by the courage, or lack thereof, of a third grader. Ouch. Respect to everyone dismantling religious fear/manipulation.
It's about giving yourself to the Mormon Church of the organization it's not about giving yourself to Christ although they use Christ and the scriptures to manipulate people to what the organization wants them to do and I think it's a very wicked thing to do that to people in the LDS church and I know that some of them probably don't realize that and I pray for these people to come out of the church so they can be free from this again thank you for sharing
At 1:21:30 John talks about how he is not trying to tear down the church and mentions all the things that they give to an organization such as a church like their time money children etc etc. I bring it up because it terrifies me that people give all that stuff to one entity. That someone would put all that trust, faith, and purpose into another human/entity. I think life is all about balance and that is giving too much of your own power away to something else. Especially your kids since they are not yours to give!
How come the whole time I was going to Church not one person ever brought up the History problems...why did I find out about it by listening to Mormon Stories...if I was to mention all of this to a member...would they be able to prove what I have learned wrong... I would not believe them...but would they?
No. They would only be able to use fallacious reasoning to determine you are wrong. They would be blinded by their bias because the have invested everything in their current worldview and personality. It’s everything they are. Science and history proves Mormonism and all other religions are false. In order to not be tricked into believing what other people are saying you need to understand fallacious reasoning, biases, epistemology, standards of evidence and the burden of proof.
I've always felt deficient in logic because although I knew as a convert that the gold bible story and BOM were fraudulent (it's all in the library) yet somehow certain bad ideas they taught me "stuck", irritational things that did nothing to enhance my life. After listening to this I see now of how of course things "stuck" ! The church is a dangerously primed environment.
Hey Kit Kat, thanks. :) It was a big decision to present as myself. I used to feel pressure to "gussy up" and be super feminine to be taken seriously in this type of professional setting. I'm grateful to John that I've been able to present as I want without having to argue about it, and still feel respected and heard.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hen_(pronoun) In Sweden we now have a neutral pronoun that can be used in place of "he or she" or in cases were one doesn't want to use neither he nor she
Hey John. That PPT that I sent you would be great to cover after talking to Luna… she covers bias, manipulation, and tactics very well. Now you should teach people how to think by covering the points in my PPT.
They love to get military young men I know of three young men who were baptized during boot camp. My brother was also targeted for reconversion as he wasn’t very strong when he went to boot camp. Seriously the military is doing half the work they just need to insert themselves as the answers… my husband was one of those he never really attended but still they did get him technically.
Funny thing; had the LDS church Leadership approached its objectives in a humanitarian format such that Jesus would have been proud to have his name on it, helping the poor, the hungry the homeless instead of collecting wealth in the organization, the public would have been more accepting of the religion and people who now leave may have thought twice before leaving. The fact that it is a corporation which follows corporation management policies such as "Maximumization of Shareholders Wealth,". only puts a black eye on the Mormon Religion. When the true history of Joseph Smith comes to light, it gives opposition more credibility. Opposition can say, not only was Joseph flawed, but all the leadership in the last 200+ years have proven not to be serving God rather MONEY! Really Sad, what they have become vs what they could have been!
@@mormonstories Well, the biggest lie is that you will be “fighting for our freedoms,” when in reality, you will be sent to kill innocent civilians in other countries so US corporations can harvest their resources. I’d say it’s a much worse lie than Mormonism. Mormons sent me to another country to spread a lie, but they never required me to murder innocent people for an illegal, unconstitutional war.
@@Richard.Atkinson I hear you loud and clear. My feelings about the military are complicated but I'm generally against it in its present form (tho I recognize that some kind of military is necessary for defense). There's a fine line to walk when teaching about these topics, to not get lost on some side track, or not shut down people who are openly listening because I've hit some political button. I've got nitpicks about our education system, as well.
1:13:44 yes, one CAN leave. But there is no graceful way to do so, and even were one to choose to risk their own suffering of whatever slings and arrows of outrageous fortune await the apostate, one must then consider how those will rebound on everyone else in the vicinity. A conscientiously scrupulous person can be held paralyzed for years, even decades, on the strength of implied threat of lost, no, withdrawn, social safety of a nearby person of interest who perhaps could not bear it. This method works.
I thought that the uneducated, the needy and the poor are most likely to be manipulated&abused; being their condition not a sign but their reality. Greetings 🙏😇
Hi, In fairness, the Mormon Church is not the first Religion to practice deception on its members. TEACHING PEOPLE TO BELIEVE A LIE: "For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness." 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 Early Christian Leaders not only lied, but acknowledged that they lied. And the masses "Doubled Down."
I read Luna's book many months ago, and it was an eye-opener. The book is well worth the price. It helped me immensely. Thanks for these podcasts, too.
@iamjustsaying1…..Well, if it’s anything like her interviews, it is most definitely worth getting! I’m going to get it myself!
@@gracebe235 Highly recommend!
I have their book in Audible, but I just purchased the actual book from Amazon to support them. Thank you both, I appreciate you more than you know!
I really wish this was more popular. These podcast with Luna are sooo good. Teaching people how to spot the undo influence in their lives and finding a way to see past it is so beneficial for each and every person.
I've been aware of this book for years but never thought I needed it. THANK YOU for this interview. Luna, you are an excellent speaker and presenter. I am buying your book now.
Luna mentioned that this should have a trigger warning on it, and I have to say that yes, so much of this video is extremely triggering, and I felt physically ill after listening to only half of it. It's worth it to listen to/watch.
Thanks for the warning! I just started, but it's good to know when a Mormon Story episode is likely to take me out. Sometimes I can listen to them and cry a little or be happy for the person's journey but sometimes I need to lie on the ground and think about the nature of existence.
I am halfway through Luna’s book. It is beyond impressive. It’s like a textbook and I have learned so much!
Luna, this is incredibly healing. I’m sitting on the fence of whether to tell people or not, which is incredibly difficult and makes me rethink if I should try to stay or not, but this podcast episode is really clear on how truly manipulative the church is.
So happy it’s helpful!!!
Life inside mormonism is like living in a meat grinder….it seems benign until you take a misstep and the “Authorities” turn the power on….then let the carnage begin…😬. Great podcast, great guest !!
I’m having s difficult time with the LDS being called “THE church”
Me too!!! But that’s how it is in “the church”! 😂❤️
It does apply to most mainstream religious folks as in the church is all the worshippers of christ in general which a lot of these mind control things can also stem from
Hi Susan,
I find it annoying to have a conversation with a Mormon and in the first few minutes they ask what Ward you attend. It may come off friendly to another Mormon, but it is extreme piety to a non Mormon!
I was born and raised in Utah and the Mormon church and I hated how everyone that lives there will say the church. I was a Manager of a big retail store and they would come in and tell me they want THE church discount when being rung up. I would always act like I didn’t know what church they were talking about. I would say, “ So the church is called THE CHURCH? I don’t see that on my list of churches that get a discount. Sorry!” They would get so mad 😡 They would say…..How do you not know what THE church is? 😂
I like to call them LDScorp instead of "the church".
I asked my local school board to deliver curriculum so kids have critical thinking skills that could help them assess advertising and social media influence. They refused because they "didn't want kids questioning their faith." True story.
I totally had to look up the definitions of words up after I left. I felt really angry while doing it. The level of creating a fake world is unbelievable. Even down to the words we use! Words are the way we understand and communicate our understanding of this world and they perverted the words I used!!! It's so disorienting. Ugggghhhh. One example: I learned integrity is doing what god (the church) wants. No! Integrity is doing what I feel is right according to MY moral values.
Nice comment….👌🏽
Except I wouldn’t even say “according to my values” it’s more according to morality which is the well being of conscious creatures. Faith isn’t a virtue, willful ignorance is NOT a value, and praying isn’t helpful.
@@ScottBub I think I understand your point. You're saying there are underlying morals and values we sense just by being conscious creatures? I assume you mean things like not doing harm, etc.
I'm coming at it more from a place of me looking inside myself and putting words to what I believe, rather than what was taught from birth. My values include autonomy, authenticity, awareness, authority over myself, safety, family, love, fun, etc. But I do believe there are underlying values applicable to everyone.
@@KitKat-gw4rh hey! I am totally with you except I was stating that we can be wrong in our own assessment or what is moral and trying to say that our values, beliefs, and wants might not line up with what is moral. I was trying to say that we need to learn as much as possible about what is morality and how to be moral and not just use our own understanding. The other things I tacked on at the end were just examples of how people can be wrong about what is moral.
Hope this helps!
@@ScottBub That makes sense 🙂
It made me think of my DBT courses (Dialectical Behavioral Therapy) and how a lot of what we do is try to balance thoughts and emotions in order to be able to make wise decisions.
Another thought was I had to learn how to actively listen and be respectful towards others when I realized I was hurting people by not listening to them.
I guess I'm just very very wary of looking to other people for morals or guidance on how to live my life. So far I've been deeply hurt and disappointed.
I just try to make sure I'm not hurting myself or others. And if I realize I am hurting someone, I do all I can to fix it. At that point, I do research to learn what I can. If something is healthy, worthwhile, and effective I'll incorporate it into my life. If not, I won't.
Anyway. That was long and probably all over the place.
On my mission, we had this contact that went really well just before a discussion with regular investigators in the same apartment complex. We ended up inviting the contact to join the discussion. In the discussion, I invited our regular investigators to share their witness about the Restoration. It was one of the best lessons I ever taught.
After listening to this, I don't feel very good about that lesson.
❤️
When you know better, you do better!
@@mormonstories For sure. I guess I felt compelled to share as part of my own healing from the indoctrination and lost years.
Can't wait!
"The people may be good, but the organization is not." This is chilling.
Can political parties be seen as cults?
Narcissists are everywhere. This is a masive controling psycological behavior. It's in religion, government, business,
and families etc.
100% yes.
Yes
Definitively. And it's not just extremist parties either.
2:10:55 "forever family": I'm not Mormon, but grew up in an evangelical denomination that strongly focused on "saving" souls for the afterlife. Going to heaven was great for self-preservation (imagine the alternative, since "zero" was not an option), but it was also a way to "see" deceased family members again. Of course, this reassurance did not work if there was any doubt or idea that the dead person "didn't know the Lord." I grew up in periodic terror that I would lose family members forever if I didn't "witness to" them, even though I didn't want to have to. Their eternity could literally be influenced by the courage, or lack thereof, of a third grader. Ouch. Respect to everyone dismantling religious fear/manipulation.
It's about giving yourself to the Mormon Church of the organization it's not about giving yourself to Christ although they use Christ and the scriptures to manipulate people to what the organization wants them to do and I think it's a very wicked thing to do that to people in the LDS church and I know that some of them probably don't realize that and I pray for these people to come out of the church so they can be free from this again thank you for sharing
At 1:21:30 John talks about how he is not trying to tear down the church and mentions all the things that they give to an organization such as a church like their time money children etc etc.
I bring it up because it terrifies me that people give all that stuff to one entity. That someone would put all that trust, faith, and purpose into another human/entity. I think life is all about balance and that is giving too much of your own power away to something else. Especially your kids since they are not yours to give!
How come the whole time I was going to Church not one person ever brought up the History problems...why did I find out about it by listening to Mormon Stories...if I was to mention all of this to a member...would they be able to prove what I have learned wrong... I would not believe them...but would they?
No. They would only be able to use fallacious reasoning to determine you are wrong. They would be blinded by their bias because the have invested everything in their current worldview and personality. It’s everything they are. Science and history proves Mormonism and all other religions are false. In order to not be tricked into believing what other people are saying you need to understand fallacious reasoning, biases, epistemology, standards of evidence and the burden of proof.
Just bought it!!
I've always felt deficient in logic because although I knew as a convert that the gold bible story and BOM were fraudulent (it's all in the library) yet somehow certain bad ideas they taught me "stuck", irritational things that did nothing to enhance my life. After listening to this I see now of how of course things "stuck" ! The church is a dangerously primed environment.
I appreciate hearing they/them pronouns used. My sibling identifies as non binary now and I'm retraining my brain so it's helpful to hear.
Hey Kit Kat, thanks. :) It was a big decision to present as myself. I used to feel pressure to "gussy up" and be super feminine to be taken seriously in this type of professional setting. I'm grateful to John that I've been able to present as I want without having to argue about it, and still feel respected and heard.
@@LunaCorbden love this 💕
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hen_(pronoun)
In Sweden we now have a neutral pronoun that can be used in place of "he or she" or in cases were one doesn't want to use neither he nor she
@@tallbacka123 That's awesome! I wish we had that here in the States.
Hey John. That PPT that I sent you would be great to cover after talking to Luna… she covers bias, manipulation, and tactics very well. Now you should teach people how to think by covering the points in my PPT.
Lovebombing is 100% tactic used by missionaries!
You are displaying the flipside of black and white thinking! A topic Luna addressed in her first presentation.
They love to get military young men I know of three young men who were baptized during boot camp. My brother was also targeted for reconversion as he wasn’t very strong when he went to boot camp. Seriously the military is doing half the work they just need to insert themselves as the answers… my husband was one of those he never really attended but still they did get him technically.
Funny thing; had the LDS church Leadership approached its objectives in a humanitarian format such that Jesus would have been proud to have his name on it, helping the poor, the hungry the homeless instead of collecting wealth in the organization, the public would have been more accepting of the religion and people who now leave may have thought twice before leaving. The fact that it is a corporation which follows corporation management policies such as "Maximumization of Shareholders Wealth,". only puts a black eye on the Mormon Religion. When the true history of Joseph Smith comes to light, it gives opposition more credibility. Opposition can say, not only was Joseph flawed, but all the leadership in the last 200+ years have proven not to be serving God rather MONEY! Really Sad, what they have become vs what they could have been!
If you think the US military is honest to prospective recruits, you’ve never seen a recruiter in action. 😬
Tell us more!!!
@@mormonstories Well, the biggest lie is that you will be “fighting for our freedoms,” when in reality, you will be sent to kill innocent civilians in other countries so US corporations can harvest their resources. I’d say it’s a much worse lie than Mormonism. Mormons sent me to another country to spread a lie, but they never required me to murder innocent people for an illegal, unconstitutional war.
Anyway, just a bad example for an “ethical” high demand group.
@@Richard.Atkinson I hear you loud and clear. My feelings about the military are complicated but I'm generally against it in its present form (tho I recognize that some kind of military is necessary for defense). There's a fine line to walk when teaching about these topics, to not get lost on some side track, or not shut down people who are openly listening because I've hit some political button. I've got nitpicks about our education system, as well.
@@Richard.Atkinson that hurts my heart
Just bef 1 hr mark --- you own yourself, it is not being selfish, it is healthy to know your independent worth out of the Org.
1:13:44 yes, one CAN leave. But there is no graceful way to do so, and even were one to choose to risk their own suffering of whatever slings and arrows of outrageous fortune await the apostate, one must then consider how those will rebound on everyone else in the vicinity. A conscientiously scrupulous person can be held paralyzed for years, even decades, on the strength of implied threat of lost, no, withdrawn, social safety of a nearby person of interest who perhaps could not bear it. This method works.
I thought that the uneducated, the needy and the poor are most likely to be manipulated&abused; being their condition not a sign but their reality.
Greetings 🙏😇
I bet that the down voters didn't even watch the video.
👍🏾❤️👍🏼❤️
Isn’t “lying for the lord” an oxymoron??
Why is it an oxymoron? The lord has lied and isn’t a moral being.
💗
1:26:00 Zoltan!!!
Hi,
In fairness, the Mormon Church is not the first Religion to practice deception on its members.
TEACHING PEOPLE TO BELIEVE A LIE:
"For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness."
2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
Early Christian Leaders not only lied, but acknowledged that they lied. And the masses "Doubled Down."
The Mormon church would cease to exist if they had informed consent.