This podcast should be mandatory viewing by all potential missionaries, before they sacrifice 2 precious years of their lives to this corporation…🥺. What a great series. 👌🏽
My copy of Luna's book came today. I love all the charts in it that they use in these interviews because I am very visual. I now have an excellent reference tool for my library. Thank you so much for doing these interviews with them, it has been a week of great healing for me.
In the name of Luna Lindsey Corbden, Amen. Best ever. I enjoyed joining in this epic little moment with my own LOL grateful smile at the end of what has truly been a heart-mind-soul exploration of healing. ❤️☺️ To think, I was once afraid to my core if I was anything but Mormon, never to allow my thoughts to wander, let alone speak of other possibilities. And sadly maybe they did wander but it was never to a beautiful place of possibilities, where I saw so much gratitude, peace, and acceptance in ever curious moment. Thanks for making this journey more fun John. Thank you Lindsey. I’ve had your audiobook for awhile and I can’t believe the gem I’ve been sitting on. Thanks so much for the content on your website too. You freakin rock! ❤️💫
Luna, this is such a gift. I am head injured and could never have put this together. I sense the problems but cannot put them into words. What a gift! Thank you. I have been toxically shamed and manipulated by Mormon family and friends and leaders without understanding what was going on.
Thankyou BOTH sooo much! You complement each other so well...so much effort and time went into all of this and such amazing information that has and will continue to help so many on the journey to freedom..I have never been a mormon but became a Jehovah's Witness when I was 30.. was in it for over 20 years..my husband and I came out together about 6 yrs ago..i am eternally grateful for that as he was an elder ..we were both well respected members. It is amazing to me to see the similarities of all these groups regarding control mechanisms.. very easy to see how these are techniques used for a purpose! John this is one of my favorite podcasts to listen to because I think you have such a great way of expressing yourself and you are not afraid to come out and say things that need to be said..you are passionate about getting the truth out and I love people that have the courage to speak up at great risk to themselves.. I do feel compelled to make you aware about how often you seem to still identify with the church using such words as "we", "our" etc when talking about the mormon church.. It is a difficult identity to shed as I am well aware with my experience with JWs... initially I did the same thing but it bothered me to such a degree that I became hypervigilant about it and rid myself of identifying with JW religion.. Luna you too are brilliant.. how you gathered this information and put it all together in a neat package..and keeping it all straight in your head..you are the epitome of calm, cool and collected! Great big LOVE to all..may love grow in everyone that listens to this and may that love be shared and spread the world over.. I sincerely believe LOVE is the answer to all things! Love experienced and shared is the most beautiful gift💞💓💗
I, too, have been troubled by John's use of the words "I" and "we" when discussing the Mormon church. Thank you for pointing it out. I second all of your comments about how valuable this podcast series is!
Often for me, growing up in the church, the 'punishment' that had the most immediate hold over me was the loss of my own good esteem. People would say "no one will know" and I would say, "but /I/ will know." In this way, I could never get away with anything.
Fantastic! T hank you Luna and John!! I had very weak boundaries when l left the church. It has been a lifelong process of learning to develop critical thinking and boundaries.
I felt phobic about tithing for a long time after I stopped believing in the church. I experienced some financial abuse growing up and mixed messages about money, so the veiled threats of what would happen if you didn't pay tithing really affected me.
The thing that came to my mind when you asked us to share “Indirect Directives” was the point in the temple ceremony (before they changed it a few years ago) where they have God tell Eve that she must obey her husband because she was the one to sin first. And because we are told at the beginning of the ceremony that we should consider ourselves as Adam and Eve, then it is indirectly implied that wives must obey their husbands. All I will say about that is that caused sooooo much psychological damage to me. My husband is amazing and would never take advantage of that, but in my mind, it elevated my husband and I was nothing without him.
The way the LDS church asks members to focus on two years of food supply and having emergency water has people spending time, thought, money and effort for the sake of some unknown emergency inspires fear.
I love that John is reading, East of Eden. It’s my favorite Steinbeck, and it’s in my top5 of all time. So far. Luna, you are a jewel! Thank you so much. I’m half way through you book on audible and I can’t wait to share it.
Riveting series. So thought provoking! Thank you Luna and John. ✌🏼❤️ from a recent atheist (from a very mild Methodist upbringing) in Philly burbs. I had a faith transition so I really feel for people having a faith crisis.
@1:20:45 I was also told growing up in Mormon world not to use the ouija board but my non Mormon friends and I did anyway. For some reason I liked scaring myself. I figured one of my friends had to be moving the planchette tho since I wasn’t.😜 Thank you so much Luna! What an amazing human being you are! This has been a fascinating series. Can’t wait to get your book. Thanks John for introducing us to Luna and their wisdom. I’ve learned so much. As far as I’m concerned the Church deserves every one of those A+s
This series was a tremendous help & resource to me. Thank you SO much for all the time and care that was put into this. It really helped me to understand what my own brain went through as a conditioned child, and also brought to light aspects of conditioning that I did not realize I had. This has been above and beyond the most helpful post-Mormon content I have consumed to date. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!
Demon Haunted World taught me critical thinking. It began my questioning everything in the LDS Church, and 2 years later I was out. It's the one book I would choose to have with me if there were no others. Along with Richard Dawkins' Outgrowing God.
Would Boyd K. Packers complaint about the fact that mormon families and friends were talking way to much about the deceased in mormon funerals be an example of an indirect directive? Suddenly the funerals had every bishop talking about the plan of salvation at the end of a great funeral...and often destroying the mood. We've heard that message ad nauseum....
I ordered my book today. Im sad that this series has ended. The quote “religion is the opiate of the masses” is from Karl Marx. And back in his day opium was legal. In a difficult world people turning to religion was like turning to opium to give people a sense of calm in an uncertain world. Full quote reads “Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world and the soul of soulless conditions, it is the opium of the people. I find this quote quite beautiful tho I’m no longer religious.
Exactly, it was Marx! And the point was that religion gives people (false) comfort and relief in a world full of pain and uncertainty -- and not that it provides euphoric, hallucinogenic experiences. :)
Indirect directive: "Live the SPIRIT of the Law, not just the letter." Thus, I drank no colas (WofW), had the teens in by midnight on Saturday (sabbath), didn't watch TV, change out of church clothes, or travel on Sundays, etc. I could give many more examples.
TBM: “but if you leave the church, what’s going to stop you from cheating on your spouse?” Questioning Mormon who has never thought about cheating and never will cheat: “maybe that says more about you than it does about me or the church 🤔“
I'm thinking about how very regular temple goers are filled with this fear of being in Satan's power so, so often - weekly, monthly or whatever. They start or end their week with a giant dose of fear. Then they inject that into their testimonies or the lessons they teach. The anxiety level is high, but they think they're calm because they believe in the plan of salvation... they are not calm. Several years ago I started noticing when I'd hear comments about how dangerous the world is, how going out into the adult world is so much more difficult and full of things that will distract or lead you away from the gospel than they could ever imagine (said to the youth), so much us vs. them thinking. I realize that there are many sources for this thinking inside the church, but the temple has to rank up there as one of the top sources for instilling this fear in people.
Hey. Could you please fix the time stamps for euphoria induction and proselytizing? They are set for 3:something something, but it’s actually for the second hour something something.
Thank you for the podcast! A lot of interesting things to think about. I can definitely relate to the perfectionism part of the podcast. I think the teaching to be perfect and the overload of stuff the church requires us to do can make a person feel depressed and lead to a distorted view of reality. Also, it does seem to trickle down to families and is overly emphasized. Not that they are saying to "be perfect" but there is a high degree of nit picking and criticism if you do anything wrong. Of course, I do think it is more of an emphasis with family dysfunction, which I had in my family. But, I don't think it helped that the church has an overemphasis on perfection. I currently teach a primary class and I definitely try to emphasize to the kids that they aren't going to do things perfectly and that is okay.
This entire series makes me realize that this entire modern society is essentially a high-demand religion. The implications are appalling and nothing about it feels right. But I remember now, that I have the spark of the one true God outside the machine within me, and now I see that same spark in all people I meet, and I hear it in the words of God's two children in this upload. Once we all remember who we truly are, we will no longer answer to these cult leaders who usurped the throne of God in the heart of mortals, and their entire house of cards will crumble and humanity will be free. The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Wow! What a gift these 5 sessions have been! Thank you both for sharing this information!
This podcast should be mandatory viewing by all potential missionaries, before they sacrifice 2 precious years of their lives to this corporation…🥺. What a great series. 👌🏽
I second that!
@@mrs.therapist6122……Church’s rebuttal? Is that IN the CES Letter? I’d like to read that!
Luna, thank you so much. This has changed my life so much for the better. Thank you thank you thank you 😭
I believe her book will become a classic staple in MANY homes. I feel it will be a much talked about book for decades to come.
My copy of Luna's book came today. I love all the charts in it that they use in these interviews because I am very visual. I now have an excellent reference tool for my library. Thank you so much for doing these interviews with them, it has been a week of great healing for me.
EX-LDS HERE. THIS IS FASCINATING.
In the name of Luna Lindsey Corbden, Amen. Best ever. I enjoyed joining in this epic little moment with my own LOL grateful smile at the end of what has truly been a heart-mind-soul exploration of healing. ❤️☺️ To think, I was once afraid to my core if I was anything but Mormon, never to allow my thoughts to wander, let alone speak of other possibilities. And sadly maybe they did wander but it was never to a beautiful place of possibilities, where I saw so much gratitude, peace, and acceptance in ever curious moment. Thanks for making this journey more fun John.
Thank you Lindsey. I’ve had your audiobook for awhile and I can’t believe the gem I’ve been sitting on. Thanks so much for the content on your website too. You freakin rock! ❤️💫
Luna, this is such a gift. I am head injured and could never have put this together. I sense the problems but cannot put them into words. What a gift! Thank you. I have been toxically shamed and manipulated by Mormon family and friends and leaders without understanding what was going on.
Thankyou BOTH sooo much! You complement each other so well...so much effort and time went into all of this and such amazing information that has and will continue to help so many on the journey to freedom..I have never been a mormon but became a Jehovah's Witness when I was 30.. was in it for over 20 years..my husband and I came out together about 6 yrs ago..i am eternally grateful for that as he was an elder ..we were both well respected members. It is amazing to me to see the similarities of all these groups regarding control mechanisms.. very easy to see how these are techniques used for a purpose! John this is one of my favorite podcasts to listen to because I think you have such a great way of expressing yourself and you are not afraid to come out and say things that need to be said..you are passionate about getting the truth out and I love people that have the courage to speak up at great risk to themselves.. I do feel compelled to make you aware about how often you seem to still identify with the church using such words as "we", "our" etc when talking about the mormon church.. It is a difficult identity to shed as I am well aware with my experience with JWs... initially I did the same thing but it bothered me to such a degree that I became hypervigilant about it and rid myself of identifying with JW religion.. Luna you too are brilliant.. how you gathered this information and put it all together in a neat package..and keeping it all straight in your head..you are the epitome of calm, cool and collected!
Great big LOVE to all..may love grow in everyone that listens to this and may that love be shared and spread the world over.. I sincerely believe LOVE is the answer to all things! Love experienced and shared is the most beautiful gift💞💓💗
I, too, have been troubled by John's use of the words "I" and "we" when discussing the Mormon church. Thank you for pointing it out. I second all of your comments about how valuable this podcast series is!
Thank you John and Luna, this was so very helpful!
Often for me, growing up in the church, the 'punishment' that had the most immediate hold over me was the loss of my own good esteem. People would say "no one will know" and I would say, "but /I/ will know." In this way, I could never get away with anything.
Fantastic! T hank you Luna and John!!
I had very weak boundaries when l left the church. It has been a lifelong process of learning to develop critical thinking and boundaries.
I felt phobic about tithing for a long time after I stopped believing in the church. I experienced some financial abuse growing up and mixed messages about money, so the veiled threats of what would happen if you didn't pay tithing really affected me.
The thing that came to my mind when you asked us to share “Indirect Directives” was the point in the temple ceremony (before they changed it a few years ago) where they have God tell Eve that she must obey her husband because she was the one to sin first. And because we are told at the beginning of the ceremony that we should consider ourselves as Adam and Eve, then it is indirectly implied that wives must obey their husbands. All I will say about that is that caused sooooo much psychological damage to me. My husband is amazing and would never take advantage of that, but in my mind, it elevated my husband and I was nothing without him.
The way the LDS church asks members to focus
on two years of food supply and having emergency water has people spending time, thought, money and effort for the sake of some unknown emergency inspires fear.
I love that John is reading, East of Eden. It’s my favorite Steinbeck, and it’s in my top5 of all time. So far.
Luna, you are a jewel! Thank you so much. I’m half way through you book on audible and I can’t wait to share it.
Riveting series. So thought provoking! Thank you Luna and John. ✌🏼❤️ from a recent atheist (from a very mild Methodist upbringing) in Philly burbs. I had a faith transition so I really feel for people having a faith crisis.
Welcome Andrea!!!
@@mormonstories ..thank you but I’ve been a sub for many years…respect to you all.
@1:20:45
I was also told growing up in Mormon world not to use the ouija board but my non Mormon friends and I did anyway. For some reason I liked scaring myself. I figured one of my friends had to be moving the planchette tho since I wasn’t.😜
Thank you so much Luna! What an amazing human being you are! This has been a fascinating series. Can’t wait to get your book. Thanks John for introducing us to Luna and their wisdom. I’ve learned so much.
As far as I’m concerned the Church deserves every one of those A+s
This series was a tremendous help & resource to me. Thank you SO much for all the time and care that was put into this. It really helped me to understand what my own brain went through as a conditioned child, and also brought to light aspects of conditioning that I did not realize I had. This has been above and beyond the most helpful post-Mormon content I have consumed to date. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!
Demon Haunted World taught me critical thinking. It began my questioning everything in the LDS Church, and 2 years later I was out. It's the one book I would choose to have with me if there were no others. Along with Richard Dawkins' Outgrowing God.
Would Boyd K. Packers complaint about the fact that mormon families and friends were talking way to much about the deceased in mormon funerals be an example of an indirect directive? Suddenly the funerals had every bishop talking about the plan of salvation at the end of a great funeral...and often destroying the mood. We've heard that message ad nauseum....
Yes! A great example!!!
I felt pain and grief when my grandma's funeral was used as a proselytizing tool.
Very interesting series 👏
I ordered my book today. Im sad that this series has ended.
The quote “religion is the opiate of the masses” is from Karl Marx. And back in his day opium was legal. In a difficult world people turning to religion was like turning to opium to give people a sense of calm in an uncertain world.
Full quote reads “Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world and the soul of soulless conditions, it is the opium of the people.
I find this quote quite beautiful tho I’m no longer religious.
Exactly, it was Marx! And the point was that religion gives people (false) comfort and relief in a world full of pain and uncertainty -- and not that it provides euphoric, hallucinogenic experiences. :)
Indirect directive: "Live the SPIRIT of the Law, not just the letter." Thus, I drank no colas (WofW), had the teens in by midnight on Saturday (sabbath), didn't watch TV, change out of church clothes, or travel on Sundays, etc. I could give many more examples.
Doesn’t the FLDS often say…..Stay Sweet…like a mantra? Obey, obey, obey. 😢😢😢😢
Their work is amazing.
TBM: “but if you leave the church, what’s going to stop you from cheating on your spouse?”
Questioning Mormon who has never thought about cheating and never will cheat: “maybe that says more about you than it does about me or the church 🤔“
I've been shocked by Ruby Franke and Jodi Hildebrand and the Daybells. So, this explains alot. Thank you.
I'm thinking about how very regular temple goers are filled with this fear of being in Satan's power so, so often - weekly, monthly or whatever. They start or end their week with a giant dose of fear. Then they inject that into their testimonies or the lessons they teach. The anxiety level is high, but they think they're calm because they believe in the plan of salvation... they are not calm. Several years ago I started noticing when I'd hear comments about how dangerous the world is, how going out into the adult world is so much more difficult and full of things that will distract or lead you away from the gospel than they could ever imagine (said to the youth), so much us vs. them thinking. I realize that there are many sources for this thinking inside the church, but the temple has to rank up there as one of the top sources for instilling this fear in people.
Fantastic!
Hey. Could you please fix the time stamps for euphoria induction and proselytizing? They are set for 3:something something, but it’s actually for the second hour something something.
Thank you for the podcast! A lot of interesting things to think about. I can definitely relate to the perfectionism part of the podcast. I think the teaching to be perfect and the overload of stuff the church requires us to do can make a person feel depressed and lead to a distorted view of reality. Also, it does seem to trickle down to families and is overly emphasized. Not that they are saying to "be perfect" but there is a high degree of nit picking and criticism if you do anything wrong. Of course, I do think it is more of an emphasis with family dysfunction, which I had in my family. But, I don't think it helped that the church has an overemphasis on perfection.
I currently teach a primary class and I definitely try to emphasize to the kids that they aren't going to do things perfectly and that is okay.
Return with Honor
This entire series makes me realize that this entire modern society is essentially a high-demand religion. The implications are appalling and nothing about it feels right. But I remember now, that I have the spark of the one true God outside the machine within me, and now I see that same spark in all people I meet, and I hear it in the words of God's two children in this upload. Once we all remember who we truly are, we will no longer answer to these cult leaders who usurped the throne of God in the heart of mortals, and their entire house of cards will crumble and humanity will be free. The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
💙
If you wanna be scared by horror agin: play Pathologic 2.