The Actual History of Mormonism & The LDS Church

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  • Опубликовано: 21 окт 2024

Комментарии • 335

  • @MormonDiscussion
    @MormonDiscussion  Год назад +30

    There are 2 mistakes in the video. At around 30 Seconds it should have had the day as December 23 (not the 21st) for Joseph's birth. And at around 1 hour 10 minutes it should have said Men and Women promise obedience to God solely in the modern Endowment rather than the past where women promised obedience to their husbands. Also for those who want to support projects like this please consider donating here mdpodcast.org/donate-to-mdpodcast/ Please LIKE, SHARE, & SUBSCRIBE

    • @kjvjay
      @kjvjay Год назад +1

      Well done!

    • @djeciruam
      @djeciruam 7 месяцев назад

      I see a lot more mistakes than that, most of this seems to be off.

    • @camerongiles7141
      @camerongiles7141 6 месяцев назад

      ​@djeciruam what seems to be off? Is this just because you are LDS, and think this doesn't show The Church in the way that you would prefer?
      They seem to be citing their sources pretty well in the video.

    • @RichardHolmes-ll8ii
      @RichardHolmes-ll8ii 6 месяцев назад

      What is your response to the reality of Paul Gregersen debunking the arrogant Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith?

    • @djeciruam
      @djeciruam 6 месяцев назад

      ​@@camerongiles7141I was the same way once so instead of taking someone else's word for what they said, I looked for myself, at the source. Always check for yourself.

  • @MAJ167
    @MAJ167 Год назад +122

    Just got my resignation letter today. It feels just like a breakup when I've known that the person was bad for me. After getting that letter, now I feel like I can grieve. Grieve for myself, my family and our bloody family history. This podcast helps me with that.

    • @atphoenix2020
      @atphoenix2020 Год назад +15

      Look at it is as freedom from the cult. What feels like the end is often the beginning! Received my official letter almost a year ago. Welcome ❤

    • @rockytreadway
      @rockytreadway Год назад +12

      Congratulations!! Welcome to the part of your life that YOU control ✨️ ❤ have fun! I'm happy for you

    • @scottdixon3727
      @scottdixon3727 Год назад +1

      What was the straw that broke the camels back with your decision of leaving ? Are you 100% positive you did the right thing ?

    • @MAJ167
      @MAJ167 Год назад +3

      ​@@atphoenix2020thanks! Definitely a relief of pressure. Generations worth

    • @MAJ167
      @MAJ167 Год назад +1

      ​@@scottdixon3727I am positive I did the right thing. It wasn't just one thing but getting quality therapy helped me trust myself enough to do what I knew was right for me for years.

  • @djdalad
    @djdalad Год назад +26

    I'm very impressed with all the work that was put into this production. I hope it will have a lasting impact on those who are seeking understanding of the history of this church.

  • @patricianoel7782
    @patricianoel7782 Год назад +177

    After 67 years of love and devotion, I settled onto two years of studying and podcasts. I was a 7 generation member and waited for my mom to pass 2 months ago before spreading my new found knowledge. I can’t believe I spent my whole life on a cult?!

    • @laurelmacquarrie1559
      @laurelmacquarrie1559 Год назад +18

      Totally with you

    • @dl1130
      @dl1130 Год назад +27

      As an older 7th generation I am surprised that more older members aren't extremely concerned about the 180° changes and the outright deceit.

    • @beastshawnee
      @beastshawnee Год назад

      All religions are pretty much cults. Mormons are just a bit more so.

    • @lorawhitfield6995
      @lorawhitfield6995 Год назад +23

      I am 63 and resigned my membership a few months ago. Wish I had learned these things years ago…but I’m happy to know now and able to live my life authentically!

    • @matildabanana3516
      @matildabanana3516 Год назад +7

      Maybe you should have read the scriptures and the voice of God instead of listening to man.

  • @ivonna.tinkle
    @ivonna.tinkle Год назад +32

    Whoa, I can’t imagine how much time it took to write, film and edit this video! Amazing job!
    Can the most important/moving parts of this video be made into shorts, reels, and TikTok vids? We've all developed short attention spans.
    Maybe Maven can help facilitate this?
    I’m going to have to watch this multiple times to absorb it all.

  • @stevenbolin7688
    @stevenbolin7688 Год назад +24

    Bill ,you could make lots of money reading books. Your voice is calming and soothing. I'll bet you could also probably hypnotize someone if you were aware of the proper technique. Again thank you for your service sir 🙏👍

  • @deborahtrapper7421
    @deborahtrapper7421 Год назад +22

    Excellent! Thank you for a thorough and engaging presentation. You're very good at this!

  • @TheSaintelias
    @TheSaintelias Год назад +13

    Very interesting. So many different ways to handle all this information. You did a great job. Such a good format to explaining the churches history. Wonder if this format could go year by year as things acutely happened, rather than revised history that is taught. Good job on this.

  • @mr.hermit2433
    @mr.hermit2433 9 месяцев назад +3

    I really enjoy learning about REAL Church History.
    Seminary studies in the 80s never sounded quite right to me.
    I walked away from the Church 20 years ago and just recently discovered this Content.
    Thank you for providing it!
    It explains A LOT👍

  • @TeslaAI
    @TeslaAI 6 месяцев назад +9

    Mandatory listening for anyone considering joining the Mormon Church. A succinct, even-handed history of the Church.

    • @MormonDiscussion
      @MormonDiscussion  5 месяцев назад +1

      thank you so much! that was the goal. Tell the story accurately and let people make informed decisions!

    • @JSandLDS
      @JSandLDS 4 месяца назад

      @@MormonDiscussion Thank you for all the work put into this. It does appear to be an attempt at a balanced view. However, it also shows how a truly balanced view is impossible to achieve because every decision to include or exclude certain documents, witness testimony or background context has power to persuade one way or another.
      Even the positioning on the timeline of certain events, such as the first visitation, at the point where Joseph claimed it happened, rather than at the much later date of the claim, paints a picture of it actually happening at that date but his later recollections possibly being result of him not remembering properly.
      If I claimed at age 50 that I saw a UFO when I was 10, and someone wrote a biography on my life. I think the most accurate way of portraying this on the timeline, is at age 50 and clearly framed as a claim. The only reason to position it at age 10, would be if I told everyone at that point and it had some impact on those around me when I was 10.
      However if someone believed that I'd definitely seen that UFO, then it would make sense for them to position it at age 10, as in their mind, it would be a historical fact rather than the claim of an individual.

  • @mgeuleinstsear
    @mgeuleinstsear 6 месяцев назад +4

    I appreciate this presentation SO MUCH! About a year ago, I tried to find a good, thorough documentary about the LDS Church's history, but of course, could only find LDS-made documentaries that lacked a lot of important details, or very obviously anti-LDS documentaries that were just not comprehensive enough.
    I love how thorough this one is

  • @TheCollapsedPsi
    @TheCollapsedPsi Год назад +36

    It's very telling that dispassionate, factual history can come off as so completely anti-mormon.

    • @MormonDiscussion
      @MormonDiscussion  Год назад +17

      its an uphill battle to counter disinformation isn't it?

    • @anthony212459
      @anthony212459 10 месяцев назад

      Only to a mormon. Anyone with a brain wouldnt be interested in learning anythingabout it. And those who are and have a brian would see right through it. I dont think theres ever been a religion that was more proven to be a pile of horse shit.

    • @gerard4870
      @gerard4870 9 месяцев назад +2

      Yes, but one of momentyuouous importance.

    • @conductorsearle
      @conductorsearle 5 месяцев назад +3

      Probably because Mormons are so well trained not to think critically.

  • @edbutzwiggle4227
    @edbutzwiggle4227 Год назад +5

    Thanks Bill for your sacrificing to produce this video

  • @kenny-gee
    @kenny-gee Год назад +9

    BR , Your voice is so smooth on the new mic

  • @rickskeptical
    @rickskeptical Год назад +13

    Great video. Your presentation is very thorough and without any unnecessary embellishment or emotional outrage. I hope to hear more and hope so much that other members of the church get the opportunity to hear this as well. As for me, I left as a bishop just before the LBGTQ fiasco, Never been happier or more at peace than now (probably Satan making my life easier 😁).

  • @sarahbrome5564
    @sarahbrome5564 Год назад +9

    This was so well put together! I'm watching it a second time. Thank you.

  • @orangemanbad
    @orangemanbad 9 месяцев назад +7

    As a Christian, I read the Book of Mormon and was truly stunned. While it’s obviously a fraud for many reasons I can give, I was pretty stunned a young man could just speak that all out. I this it’s possible he was visited by a spirit who gave him this book similar to a spirit giving Muhammad the Quran.

    • @Ronald-pe8di
      @Ronald-pe8di 8 месяцев назад +6

      An evil spirit he had

    • @DamonNomad82
      @DamonNomad82 5 месяцев назад

      Islam was started by a false "prophet" who claimed to be visited by an angel and given new revelations, falsely accused the Bible of being "corrupted", wrote a new "holy" book to replace it, taught that polygamy was a good thing, and liked little girls in inappropriate ways. Mormonism was started by a false "prophet" who claimed to be visited by an angel and given new revelations, falsely accused the Bible of being "corrupted", wrote a new "holy" book to replace it, taught that polygamy was a good thing, and liked little girls in inappropriate ways.
      Things that make you say "Hmm..."

    • @willx9352
      @willx9352 2 месяца назад +1

      Given that portions of it are direct quotation from the King James Bible (including the errors found in a particular edition), it is obvious that it was not just “spoken out”.

    • @benjistorment1655
      @benjistorment1655 Месяц назад

      Yeah Satan was the Angel who met both Smith and Mohammad

    • @orangemanbad
      @orangemanbad Месяц назад

      @@willx9352 not really. I’m assuming you’ve never read it. There’s not huge portions copying the Bible. Not that I read. There is one sentence that is disputed that was a copy of KJV error. But that’s the only one I know of.

  • @KennethBurkett
    @KennethBurkett 7 месяцев назад +4

    This is one of the best RUclipsrs that you'll find on the mormon (sp on purpose) church

  • @HelloUser1
    @HelloUser1 Год назад +10

    Well done writing and narration. A fair and respectful depiction of the history and inconistencies.

  • @ZakMakoff
    @ZakMakoff Год назад +11

    Hello from Holladay, Utah!

  • @PulusilFiliagajr
    @PulusilFiliagajr 6 месяцев назад +2

    I❤ this beautiful gospel of Jesus Christ for ever and Always Amen 😢 Thank you Jesus Christ for this beautiful gospel of "Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" Amen ✔️ hallelujah Hallelujah 💛😇💕 Aloha.

    • @MormonDiscussion
      @MormonDiscussion  5 месяцев назад

      Do you dispute any of the history shown? or just sharing your religious testimony as a way to dismiss what was presented?

  • @troygardner6559
    @troygardner6559 Год назад +13

    Excellent narration Bill!! Joseph Smiths history sounds a lot like Tim Ballards current ruse. Thank goodness , we live in a new age where we can look up truth, or i fear Tim Ballard would be a new prophet .

  • @steveambrose2349
    @steveambrose2349 Год назад +16

    As I understand uncovered church history, it wasn’t Moroni that Smith communicated with but Nephi. The Moroni narrative was added by Brigham Young when the Mormons were in Utah Territory. The church claims that it was a clerical error naming Nephi as the treasure angel. If this is true, then why didn’t Smith correct the record while he was alive?

  • @ywf2891
    @ywf2891 Год назад +6

    That was really entertaining and insightful! Great job Bill! 🙂👍

  • @stevenbolin7688
    @stevenbolin7688 Год назад +8

    I truly appreciate you and your dedication to bringing the truth of the church out into the open. It's been a long time since we had someone who was not afraid to do so. I believe that most are discussed by the real truth about the history and people who have been part of this church's history.

  • @daisybee1439
    @daisybee1439 Год назад +7

    Very interesting and informative video! Thanks Bill!😀😀

  • @thaiguyry
    @thaiguyry Год назад +11

    Excellent presentation. Thank you. I wish I knew these details previously. I'm glad my family is no longer participating in this path, aka 'covenant path'.

  • @VirtuousHereticKristin
    @VirtuousHereticKristin Год назад +2

    Cheers from Farmington, UT!

  • @JamesBPreston
    @JamesBPreston Год назад +8

    Hello from Kamas, Ut

  • @twinnish
    @twinnish 8 месяцев назад +1

    I’m not sure how I missed this when it first came out. Thank you for all the work that you put into it.

  • @momintheshoe4278
    @momintheshoe4278 Год назад +6

    Well, this really sums it up ! Great show

  • @daniellima2973
    @daniellima2973 Год назад +8

    God wastes so much time . Why couldn’t he reveal the full name of the Church when it was organized?

  • @HaroldJackson-n7l
    @HaroldJackson-n7l 9 месяцев назад +1

    Greetings from Ogden, Utah!

  • @anglomik
    @anglomik Год назад +13

    I believe it. All true. I have a Magic Hat & Stone myself.

  • @joshuaadduru5479
    @joshuaadduru5479 11 месяцев назад +2

    If only we had access to these records early on..

  • @andrewfike4290
    @andrewfike4290 Год назад +10

    Great job!

  • @GaliSinatra
    @GaliSinatra Год назад +9

    Well done!

  • @charlescresap4451
    @charlescresap4451 5 месяцев назад +2

    My desire has been to have a relationship with the Savior. The scripture says "when you have received" check with the holy Ghost to verify the truth. I am acquainted with both the J W s and L Ron... I have received firm verification of my relationship with Christ. The LDS Church has provided much, not all, of that verification. However, the unused Book of Mormon scripture, Alma 37:9, repentance, that is to know God and to rejoice in Christ our redeemer, tells me all I need to know. The purpose of His church and the prophets is to give me what I need to have that relationship with Christ and to bring me to know my God, Christ's father. I know when and how I have received what I have needed. I am older (80+) and I now have a personal relationship with them that has been confirmed over many years.

  • @toogsintheteeth
    @toogsintheteeth Год назад +1

    Very well done! May I offer one criticism?
    At 1:10:21 to 1:10:28, I believe you misspoke in saying that both the wives and husbands "promise to obey their husbands". I just thought you wanted to know.
    This has been changed since I stopped attending, so I may be wrong, but do you mean that they both promise to obey the Lord?

    • @MormonDiscussion
      @MormonDiscussion  Год назад +2

      Yes I misspoke. Lol no way to fix now

    • @JohnMartin-vw4zt
      @JohnMartin-vw4zt Год назад +3

      When I was a member it was said she will obey her husband as he obeys Father (God)

  • @ZakMakoff
    @ZakMakoff Год назад +15

    I was in school in Berkley durin "Prop 8" the Church poured in mega $$$ One day during Priesthood we were lectured to "Contact fam, friends & neighbors to support "Prop 8" I interjected, "Is this lesson in the Study Manuel?" The look on Everyone's face and whispers as I walked into the chapel for Sacrament... lol

    • @MarleneKerr-p6x
      @MarleneKerr-p6x Год назад

      We will get this podcast debunked as we point out your lies and how you are misleading people against the church

    • @RoheAmar
      @RoheAmar Год назад +1

      I appreciate and enjoy your podcasts thank you so much My Husband my son and I left 2011 and are very happy that we made the decision to leave.

    • @gerard4870
      @gerard4870 9 месяцев назад

      The sad thing isn't that this occurred, it's that all these millions are going to hell.

  • @kevinmorris7224
    @kevinmorris7224 Год назад +10

    Again, true mormonism is the real occult.

  • @thomasfolio7931
    @thomasfolio7931 11 месяцев назад +7

    Joseph Smith's stories about Jesus in the Americas was plagiarized from other authors, primarily the book, "View of the Hebrews" published in 1823 written by Ethan Smith (No relation to Joseph) We see the same thing with another Religion founded at the same time. Ellen G White, the founder of the Seventh Day Adventists who plagiarized books by others and said that they were visions and revelations that she had. Like Smith she did not have the foresight to claim the visions were prior to the date the other books were written. So they were stuck with a later, "revelation" lifted from the pages of other people's writings.

  • @susiemccomb4501
    @susiemccomb4501 Год назад +5

    I may be wrong but I don’t think Joey Boy went through all the sealing shenanigans before Emma found them rolling in the hay.

    • @MormonDiscussion
      @MormonDiscussion  Год назад

      That seems the most likely perspective... that it was an affair

  • @ZakMakoff
    @ZakMakoff Год назад +4

    My grandparents owned a business in So SLC, their best customers were a polygmst fam called the Kingston's...they dressed modern to 'blend in!'

    • @gerard4870
      @gerard4870 9 месяцев назад

      The kingstons--descendants of jesus himself. Somehow. Obviously not the Christian jesus.

  • @jamesbyrd6922
    @jamesbyrd6922 Год назад +2

    I appreciate the idea of an overview. However, I think that the approach does a better job of convincing the average mormon that is just becoming aware of the real history of the church to accept this new version. This is because unlike the LDS church your are telling the whole truth; however it is the "varnish" that is the problem. That "varnish" being the overwhelming number of adjectives with a positive connotations. Words like "divine", "momentous", "monumental" and phrases like "it bore witness" handily sell the ludicrous notion that god needed to speak through a rock. Merely including forms of the word "alleged" a couple of times hardly detract from the overall artful and a positive feel created by this presentation. This criticism is not meant to endorse the notion of creating a presentation that is clearly meant to be mean spirited or negative. Unfortunately, for those of us coming from a mormon past it is very difficult for us to approach LDS topics without using the reverent rhetoric that was taught to us by our former church. Please re do the recording after a careful rewrite (maybe even by a third party). This final edit would be extremely important because your concept is critical to understanding mormonism - an investigator can obtain the same information contained in this presentation elsewhere, buy only after hundreds of hours of study! I challenge you to re watch the presentation and do a count of the positive descriptors for yourself and compare it with phrasing that challenges the viewer to question. JCB

    • @davesommers6427
      @davesommers6427 Год назад +1

      May I add, to use the word “quote“ and perhaps "unquote" when you speak in words used by the church to make things magnificent and glorious as a PR stunt in promoting a false narrative.
      In other words, this will help many that are not as familiar as some of us are in contrasting the church’s position and what the real facts are.

    • @allanmason3201
      @allanmason3201 11 месяцев назад

      Not a Mormon and never have been, but I've long been interested in the myriad flavours of American religious fruitcakes. I made it about 15 minutes into this video before the blandly neutral descriptions of highly implausible or utterly impossible events became too much for me to tolerate.
      As for the video's creator trying to be respectful, any attempt to give an objective appraisal of the history of Joseph Smith must *necessarily* be negative; the man was either a delusional fool or a con-man who was capable of glibly telling the most ridiculous lies in pursuit of his selfish ends. The same applies to those who succeeded him in controlling the church, although the list of possible explanations for some of those guys has to also include "highly manipulative psychopath".
      Maybe the reverential and respectful tone of this video will allow devout LDS believers to take on board a few nibbles of the truth about their religion, but it did nothing positive for me, and I didn't learn anything I didn't already know about Mormonism before I hit pause.

  • @zachgarver7922
    @zachgarver7922 Год назад +8

    Doing OK until Carthage jail, but there Bill, your narrative describing Smith's death could have come from an adult missionary. Smith was not "martyred." He did not willingly die for his faith. His faith was not the issue, he could have denounced it at the top of his lungs and it would not have made a difference to the mob. Further, you completely neglected the fact that both Smiths resisted with firearms that were smuggled to them, killing two of their attackers. Hardly the act of a martyr. Unjustly attacked and killed by a mob? Yes. Did Smith have a right to defend himself? Again Yes, but he was NOT a martyr.

    • @carolyearsley
      @carolyearsley Год назад +5

      Exactly! He died in a gun fight. He was shooting down the steps leading up to the room they were in.

    • @KSASTAMPS
      @KSASTAMPS Год назад

      And what would be your source that he killed any of the attackers? There were between 100-200 in the mob attacking the jail at Carthage. Joseph Smith was killed for religious reasons. The fact that he fired a few shots with a pistol is irrelevant. You may not agree with what he taught, but your argument that he was not a martyr is not valid.

    • @MormonDiscussion
      @MormonDiscussion  Год назад +4

      The intent was to be fair and faith encouraging where possible.

    • @zachgarver7922
      @zachgarver7922 Год назад +5

      My sources is any number of people who have objectively researched and written on the subject. The fact that Smith was armed and two attackers were killed is not in dispute, though perhaps never mentioned in the church narrative or by the missionary tour guides at Carthage Jail. Smith was killed because he practiced polygamy in the most vile and predatory manner. So to the extent polygamy was part of his religious beliefs (even though he lied about it to the day he died, and the church lied about it for over 170 years), OK I will concede that in that narrow sense he was a "martyr." @@KSASTAMPS

    • @davesommers6427
      @davesommers6427 Год назад

      again, this is why you use the word “quote and unquote“ in using the church's whitewashed or even created versions of history

  • @marquitaarmstrong399
    @marquitaarmstrong399 3 месяца назад +2

    Bill this was diamond. Thank u. ❤❤🎉🎉

  • @orlandoastiazaran5571
    @orlandoastiazaran5571 8 месяцев назад +2

    This is sooo tonge-in-cheek. Thanks

  • @davesommers6427
    @davesommers6427 Год назад +2

    Bill, one thing many people do not realize is that doctrine was changed in the book of Mormon. I’m certain you’re aware of this, but it may be good to add a little snippet in there about the Trinity being taught in first Nephi chapter 11, and again, in first Nephi chapter 13. Look it up on the book of Mormon Central.

  • @Jeanikins
    @Jeanikins 9 месяцев назад

    This was wonderful Bill - great job. I feel that this is something I could share with a believer.

    • @MormonDiscussion
      @MormonDiscussion  5 месяцев назад +1

      That was the goal. Tell the true history in a straightforward way. Give people the full story and let them make informed decisions.

  • @Zeett09
    @Zeett09 Год назад

    Great stuff!! Nit….Opening date of Smiths birth. Wasn’t it Dec 23rd?

  • @liamalepta8003
    @liamalepta8003 14 дней назад

    Two points about Mormons not made. One, download the Mormon Survival pdf. It's a great list for hurricane or natural disasters that everyone should read and consider. Two..
    The Mormons have a giant food and supply bank, they take extremely good care of their own. They have a food plant operation where they process and can their own foods. Much larger than the Amish. They are similar to the Amish. Much of their community perspective is from the Mormon Trail and pilgrimage to western states. They have a very valuable self sustainable concept which people today can't understand. Maybe after these disasters..
    They will figure out this need of community.

  • @kennethd.9436
    @kennethd.9436 Год назад

    I think something which would have distracted me from the prophet Joseph Smith is to ask which colors were his Seer stones. 😄 One White, the other brown.
    Reading the story of Hiram Page in the context of Joseph’s Seer stone; D&C 28. Who else believed a preacher with a stone of revelation? All the Mormons who lived in the time of Joseph Smith.

  • @melaniep6109
    @melaniep6109 Год назад +9

    This is weird and possibly evil. I hurt for the sacrificed animals. I didn't know 😕 this was part 😳 of LDS history. Too bad. I wish I knew more. I more. I may not have joined.

    • @MormonDiscussion
      @MormonDiscussion  Год назад +3

      Joseph Smith sacrifices a Dog to help him find buried treasure:
      -In the time of their digging for money and not finding it attainable, Joe Smith told them there was a charm on the pots of money, and if some animal was killed and the blood sprinkled around the place, then they could get it. So they killed a dog, and tried this method of obtaining the precious metal; but again money was scarce in those diggings. Still, they dug and dug, but never came to the precious treasure. Alas! how vivid was the expectation when the blood of poor Tray was used to take off the charm, and after all to find their mistake. Emily Coburn, in Emily M. Austin, Mormonism; or, Life Among the Mormons, 1882, pp. 32-33
      -Hiel Lewis affirmed that Smith translated the Book of Mormon by means of the same enchanting spirit that directed Smith to make dog sacrifices. Dr. Quinn wrote, "A cousin of Smith's wife Emma reported that Smith 'translated the book of Mormon by means of the same peep stone, and under the same inspiration that directed his enchantments and dog sacrifices; it was all by the same spirit' (H. Lewis 1879)" (Quinn, 1987 edition, p. 144).
      -Justice Joel King Noble, who tried Smith in an 1830 trial in Colesville, N.Y., related in a letter that when Joe Smith and others were digging "for a Chest of money," they acquired a black dog and offered it as "a sacrafise [blood Sprinkled prayer made at the time (no money obtained) the above Sworn to on trial. . . ." (Letter of Justice Noble, dated March 8, 1842, photographically reproduced in Walters, "Joseph Smith's Bainbridge, N.Y., Court Trials," p. 134).

    • @ReelHifi
      @ReelHifi Год назад +1

      we all do :(

    • @xaverrogers4910
      @xaverrogers4910 Год назад

      Five star pentagram inverted on slc Temple or was in two places. Internet exposing truth so they might removed them. Christus statue has split beard!

  • @kenbrown6095
    @kenbrown6095 11 месяцев назад +1

    wow, most excellent presentation!

  • @thelthrythquezada8397
    @thelthrythquezada8397 25 дней назад

    How people don't see all that as witchcraft is beyond me!!!

  • @KSASTAMPS
    @KSASTAMPS Год назад +3

    Re: the eight witnesses. Do you have any actual direct statement from any of the eight witnesses that they did not view the plates in the manner listed in the witness statement? This is a serious question. I've studied Mormonism pretty diligently for nearly 50 years, and have never run across any direct evidence in this regard. If you or anyone has it, I would like a citation in response to this comment.

    • @beastshawnee
      @beastshawnee Год назад +2

      Common sense tells everyone that they were lying about seeing anything and then made uncomfortable with their lies and decided to alter those lies afterward with some plausible deniability. dog sacrifices-seeing stones- treasure digs - these led to Joseph’s conning people with magical plates. It’s just logical thinking to assume once a con???ž.5

    • @JohnMartin-vw4zt
      @JohnMartin-vw4zt Год назад +2

      Check with the Reorganized Church of JC of LDS. They have a lot of saved records that the original church would have probably destroyed

    • @MormonDiscussion
      @MormonDiscussion  Год назад +3

      Thomas Ford, former Governor of Illinois, reflected upon his impression of the witnesses. “…I have been informed by men who were once in the confidence of the prophet, that he privately gave a different account of the matter… He set them to continual prayer, and other spiritual exercises…and at last, when he could delay them no longer, he assembled them in a room, and produced a box, which he said contained the precious treasure. The lid was opened; the witnesses peeped into it, but making no discovery, for the box was empty…”
      The prophet promptly chastised their lack of faith, commanding them to their knees to beg forgiveness and increased faith. “The disciples dropped to their knees and began to pray in the fervency of their spirit, supplicating God for more than two hours with fanatical earnestness; at the end of which time, looking again into the box, they were now persuaded that they saw the plates.” [33] If true, this is a damning account. If untrue, why didn’t the witnesses ever contradict the idea that they had only seen the gold plates with spiritual eyes?
      archive.org/details/ahistoryillinoi00shiegoog#page/n256

    • @whatsup3270
      @whatsup3270 Год назад +4

      They won't fit, I hope you know that. That much gold would be over 220lbs something all would remember, and something which can't be handled that way. And you can't write the book into that small amount of surface area, even with other metals, there are just too many words. And for me personally I can't get over how god/angels know American English but only knew it so, so badly. They can't spell or punctuate. And in addition to the spelling and punctuation issues there are many, many anachronisms, and there is 18th century KJV in there. I don't disparage Mormons for reaching to god (Natural Moral Law) however the BOM doesn't hold up well.
      btw the story makes the golden plates of no value, as they were never read, and didn't survive, heck even the box they were in (concrete= anachronism) didn't survive.

    • @allanmason3201
      @allanmason3201 11 месяцев назад

      @@whatsup3270 But the tablets were *obviously* holy, Moronic gold; everyone knows the physical properties of that stuff is nothing at all like the mundane, worldly gold we all know.
      As with every brand of religious nonsense, the "Because God..." non-explanation is the only possible one.

  • @dbrandon4528
    @dbrandon4528 11 месяцев назад

    You should read the Joseph Smith Papers.

  • @pianomanchristopher
    @pianomanchristopher 5 месяцев назад +1

    Very thorough coverage of the real history, at least as we are now aware of it.

  • @lhyde55
    @lhyde55 Год назад +1

    One big correction. Emma Smith was not Joseph's first wife.

    • @susiemccomb4501
      @susiemccomb4501 Год назад +1

      Who was Joey’s first wife? Emma Hale was his first wife, I thought?

    • @xaviera9994
      @xaviera9994 Год назад +5

      Emma was his first Wife, but not his first Celectial wife. He got sealed to other woman before Emma. Emma was 20.. something I think.

    • @beastshawnee
      @beastshawnee Год назад +6

      He was already legally married to Emma thru the state before he got “sealed” to those other “wives”! BUT sure he secretly sealed the girls he was having sex with BeFore Emma.

    • @davesommers6427
      @davesommers6427 Год назад

      Fanny Algar I believe was first polygamist wife- maybe 16 years old?

  • @mattc1647
    @mattc1647 5 месяцев назад +1

    Sees RFK and Bill Reel in channel header. Ahh, you're THAT kind of "Mormon" Channel.
    Making your money by leading people away from their faith is particularly slimy

    • @MormonDiscussion
      @MormonDiscussion  3 месяца назад

      What about leading people into further light and knowledge back into their own autonomy and into a more happy and fulfilling life?

  • @nevercatnorcradle
    @nevercatnorcradle Месяц назад

    How'd they know he actually went to that tree for thay rock?
    He didn't just walk around and find a nice rock?..

    • @MormonDiscussion
      @MormonDiscussion  Месяц назад

      Of course that’s what he did meaning he just found a rock and didn’t go anywhere and certainly not 150 miles away to dig underneath the tree

  • @GazelamAle
    @GazelamAle Год назад +2

    I like Bill A.I. 😂 Reel? ❤

  • @richlopez5896
    @richlopez5896 4 месяца назад

    Joseph Smith As A Monotheist
    There are three major stages in the development of Joseph Smith’s doctrine of Deity. The earliest stage is represented by the Book of Mormon (1830), the Book of Moses (1830-31), and the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible (1833). Many passages from these early works of Joseph Smith reveal his belief in monotheism. Here are a few of the numerous examples:
    Book of Mormon, Alma 11:26-28
    “And Zeezrom said unto him: Thou sayest there is a true and living God. And Amulek said: Yea, there is a true and living God. Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God? And he answered, No.”
    The Book of Mormon ‘Testimony of the Three Witnesses’ Preface:
    “And honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.”
    Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible Isaiah 44:6,8 (left unchanged):
    “Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer, the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.”
    The Book of Moses, Moses 1:6:
    “And I have a work for thee, Moses, my son; and thou art in the similitude of my Only Begotten; and mine Only Begotten is and shall be the Savior, for he is full of grace and truth; but there is no God beside me, and all things are present with me, for I know them all.”
    Now many Mormons have tried their best to harmonize and rationalize the monotheistic passages in the Book of Mormon with Joseph’s later teaching of the plurality of Gods, by saying while there are many Gods, “there is only one God with whom we have to do, or whom we worship”. But in light of the JST version of Isaiah 44:8 (“Is there a God beside me? yea, There is no God; I know not any”) and a number of other passages like Isaiah 43:10-11; 45:21-22; 46:9, it’s hard to argue this position.
    Joseph Smith as a “Binitarian”
    In 1834-35, during the Kirtland, Ohio period, Joseph Smith made a major departure from the Book of Mormon emphasis on the Father and Son as the same person. While still apparently maintaining there is only one God (monotheism), he began to teach there are two persons within the Godhead - the Father and the Son. Theologians call this “binitarianism.” This second stage in Joseph’s teaching regarding Deity is found in the Doctrine and Covenants “Lectures on Faith”:
    Lectures on Faith, Lecture Five:
    There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things - by whom all things were created and made . . . They are the Father and the Son: The Father being a personage of spirit, glory and power: possessing all perfection and fullness: The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a personage of tabernacle, made and fashioned like unto man.
    Lectures on Faith, Lecture Five (question and answer section)
    Q. How many personages are there in the Godhead?
    A. Two: the Father and the Son.
    According to the Lectures on Faith, the Holy Ghost, or Holy Spirit (the two terms were not distinguished at this stage), is not a person, but is the shared ‘mind’ of the Father and Son.
    Joseph Smith As A Polytheist
    The Book of Abraham, first published in 1842, represents the fourth and final stage of Joseph Smith’s developing doctrine of Deity. Here, for the first time, Joseph spells out in no uncertain terms the doctrine of the plurality of Gods:
    Book of Abraham 4:2-3
    “And the earth, after it was formed, was empty and desolate . . . and the Spirit of the Gods was brooding upon the face of the waters. And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light.”
    Expressions such as “the Gods called,” “the Gods ordered,” and “the Gods prepared” occur 45 times in Abraham 4-5. And directly related to the doctrine of the plurality of Gods is Joseph’s teaching that Heavenly Father is an exalted man who Himself has a Father, and whose Father has a Father, ad infinitum.
    In a June 16, 1844 sermon recorded in the History of the Church, Joseph described this new understanding that there are many Gods and that Heavenly Father is Himself the offspring of a more ancient Deity:
    Joseph Smith’s King Follet Discourse (History of the Church, vol. 6)
    “I want to reason a little on this subject (that God himself has a father). I learned it by translating the (Book of Abraham) papyrus that is now in my house. I learned a testimony concerning Abraham, and he reasoned concerning the God of heaven . . . If Abraham reasoned thus - If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John discovered that God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that He had a Father also.”
    A Few False Prophecies of Joseph Smith, Founder of the Mormon sect:
    *In 1835 Joseph Smith prophesied the Lord’s return within 56 years (History of the Church, Vol. 2, pg. 182). By 1891 this was proven to be a false prophecy.
    *In 1843 Joseph Smith prophesied that the United States government would be overthrown and wasted within a few years if they refused to redress the wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri (History of the Church, Vol. 5, pg. 394). The United States government has never formally redressed any wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri and the government still stands nearly 170 years later.
    *In 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the present generation of Mormons would not pass away before the temple of the New Jerusalem would be built in Zion, Missouri (Doctrine & Covenants Section 84). The Mormons were forced to flee Missouri and no temple was constructed there in Joseph Smith’s lifetime or within the generation that witnessed this prophecy.
    *In 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the United States civil war would eventually engulf all nations (Doctrine & Covenants Section 87). This prophecy did not come close to being fulfilled. Joseph Smith made many other false prophecies in his lifetime. By the standards of God’s word, he must be labeled a false prophet (Deuteronomy 18:20-22)

  • @thelthrythquezada8397
    @thelthrythquezada8397 25 дней назад

    This whole Joseph Smith deal sounds like a person that knew nothing about the Bible (Maybe the veeeery basics) then invented a bunch of nothing to make it sound close enough. First time I heard the names of the books made me double take. They sound super made up and not Hebrew at all.

  • @stormiejohnson6211
    @stormiejohnson6211 Год назад +1

    I am enjoying this particular podcast. I hate to be critical but there’s a little bugaboo about it that I would like to mention. Bill Reel keeps saying a word & sounds like he’s saying “moment-u-ous”. I don’t think that is a word. Does he mean momentous?

  • @Rogue-nc3pl
    @Rogue-nc3pl 3 месяца назад

    Did smith had a vision or he just made it up.

    • @jackallen5424
      @jackallen5424 25 дней назад

      There is no way to know for sure. I think it’s more likely that he made it up, but I also wouldn’t doubt if he truly believes the things he was saying.

  • @AlbertJLouie
    @AlbertJLouie Год назад +3

    When you seek answers from the Book of Mormon instead of the Bible, God can't help you because you have turned your back on Him. Therefore this leaves the door open for Satan (II Corinthians 11:14-15) to step into your life with a false christ or prophet showing you signs and wonders to lead you away from the real Jesus of the Bible who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity. God Himself warns us about this in:
    MATTHEW 24:23-24
    "Then if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Christ! or There! do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect..."
    Mormons teach and believe that their jesus is the brother of Satan, which contradicts what God says in His Bible that Jesus is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity.
    So, Mormons, which Jesus do you believe in?
    Your jesus of the Book of Mormon, who is the brother of Satan.
    OR
    B. The Jesus of the Bible, who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity.

  • @nowlwane9623
    @nowlwane9623 Год назад +1

    Can’t go against THE MESSAGE

  • @mackalarvena2352
    @mackalarvena2352 3 месяца назад

    Love the video... 1 issue tho. The reading 😢 those "pauses" - apparently at the end of a row and transitioning to a new one are quite... well, they are noticable and distracting, interrupting the -otherwise nice- flow of info...

  • @davidhepple
    @davidhepple 10 месяцев назад +1

    Early 19th century grifting.

  • @paulamortensen36
    @paulamortensen36 4 месяца назад

    The witnesses continued to stand by their testimonies even though they left the church

    • @nightman6349
      @nightman6349 2 месяца назад

      And they never physically saw the plates. They saw a box that Joseph smith said had the plates in them. So they aren't even eye witnesses. They used their spirit eyes (imagination)

  • @bambangtheo5640
    @bambangtheo5640 25 дней назад

    The strange thing in Christianity is when there were members of particular church who then felt dissatisfaction on several things then they move to another new church and claim they find true God and star criticizing their former churches. 😂😂😂 So, their perspective are all windy and empty. They don't look for the truth of God. They actually look for the churches whatever they want and forgetting that Godly values are in them already.

  • @WORM602
    @WORM602 5 месяцев назад

    Some dude found Gold plates.. what in the Harry's potter is going on

  • @randoman33
    @randoman33 Год назад +2

    It's momentUS. Not momentYous

  • @randall7362
    @randall7362 Год назад

    The Fanchers traveled from Arkansas, to Salt Lake,while they were there they exchanged arguments, almost caused violence.it was over Joseph' smith's assassination back in cartilage jail, Brigham young vowed to revenge joseph smith

    • @MormonDiscussion
      @MormonDiscussion  Год назад +4

      I think you are perpetuating a bad argument. The idea that the Francher Baker party was connected to those who committed violence on Joseph Smith has been proven untrue

  • @youtubegirl149
    @youtubegirl149 8 месяцев назад

    A question for Mormons- what makes you believe this is true?

    • @Just-MACCHEESE
      @Just-MACCHEESE 7 месяцев назад +2

      I was born into the church. I am in the middle of a faith crisis. But I have come to the conclusion that fear is the reason people believe. We have been taught since childhood that if you leave the church you will be exempt from blessings and that you will never be truly happy. We have also been taught that not marrying within the temple will not allow you to be in the highest level of heaven. Not to mention the terrifying idea that you will never be able to see your family after you die.

    • @youtubegirl149
      @youtubegirl149 6 месяцев назад +1

      @@Just-MACCHEESE thank you for the truthful response. I am a practicing Catholic and I know some Catholics who believe for similar reasons that you mentioned … I personally believe in Catholicism because it’s the only thing that can provide me all the answers and I believe it to be the truth. I looked at other religions and denominations and Catholicism provides all the puzzle pieces- every teaching just “fits”

    • @Just-MACCHEESE
      @Just-MACCHEESE 6 месяцев назад

      @@youtubegirl149 my mother actually left the Catholic Church for Mormonism. I still don’t understand why though.

    • @youtubegirl149
      @youtubegirl149 6 месяцев назад

      @@Just-MACCHEESE i noticed a lot of cradle Catholics don’t really know their faith and can’t defend it (I was definitely guilty of this at one time )

  • @pturn9013
    @pturn9013 8 месяцев назад +3

    Who doesn't love a good fairytale?

  • @elbaocasio6608
    @elbaocasio6608 10 месяцев назад +3

    He fooled and continues to fool people. He must be in hell

  • @EternityjoyYpilortega-th9cx
    @EternityjoyYpilortega-th9cx 6 месяцев назад

    something is not right here..
    GOD BLESS YOU MY FRIEND

  • @copycat769
    @copycat769 7 месяцев назад

    Once you unlock the real history of our world those all makes sense

  • @susiemccomb4501
    @susiemccomb4501 Год назад +3

    I didn’t know that. He certainly had a “crotch” problem in his short life! I remember reading JS had been accused by some parents in NY for seducing their daughter, but never convicted

  • @daniel-ino
    @daniel-ino Месяц назад

    its striking how the history of Islam is similar in its ridiculousness.

  • @KahlessTheUnforgettable
    @KahlessTheUnforgettable 5 месяцев назад +1

    Greetings from Kolob 👽🖖

  • @chrewtransformation
    @chrewtransformation Год назад +2

    27:40 most important slide b/c the church claims the priesthood authority/restoration is the #1 element that makes them the correct church

  • @RichardHolmes-ll8ii
    @RichardHolmes-ll8ii 6 месяцев назад

    What is your response to the reality of Paul Gregersen debunking the arrogant Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith?

    • @jackallen5424
      @jackallen5424 6 месяцев назад

      Egyptologists* as in it is common consensus, amongst almost all of them

    • @RichardHolmes-ll8ii
      @RichardHolmes-ll8ii 6 месяцев назад

      ​@@jackallen5424This revelation/explanation from Joseph Smith was never supposed to match up with the translation from that of the anti-Mormon Egyptologists.

    • @MormonDiscussion
      @MormonDiscussion  5 месяцев назад

      picking an anomaly person with a view unaccepted by everyone in the field when that person has a significant bias is not how critical thinking works.

    • @MormonDiscussion
      @MormonDiscussion  5 месяцев назад

      also is Paul an Egyptologist or a Mormon who has dabbled in Egyptology?

    • @RichardHolmes-ll8ii
      @RichardHolmes-ll8ii 5 месяцев назад

      ​@@MormonDiscussionBias? You're bias. Critical thinking? The LDS are taught to think critically.

  • @arowberry
    @arowberry Год назад +1

    Interesting. However i prefer to ask God the Eternal Father about the truth rather than accept a narrative spoke to me by a computer voice. I will look into what has been alleged here which is likely to be no less accurate than what i learned in high school. 😂

    • @MormonDiscussion
      @MormonDiscussion  Год назад +8

      Can you sense that a Jehovah's witness and scientologist might have the same defensive response. Please do look up the data and then also see how the faiths defenders will acknowledge the data but then convince you of a mental gymnastic way to resolve it.

    • @davesommers6427
      @davesommers6427 Год назад +2

      Superb response, BILL!

    • @davesommers6427
      @davesommers6427 Год назад +1

      Why don’t you attack the messenger because you can’t defend the facts vs the church’s sugarcoated version

    • @LightWalker22
      @LightWalker22 9 месяцев назад

      Please. Be honest with yourself… look yourself right in the eyes in the mirror ask yourself if you truly are being honest… then go and look for yourself.
      Why do the leaders of Mormonism continue to NOT teach the fact that Joseph Smith actually used a "rock in a hat" for his “translation” technique?
      It’s missionaries are taught to NOT shows these facts to investigators.
      Your leaders do not teach the children this when teaching about how the Book of Mormon came about…
      if fact the Mormon leaders teach a complete different story propped up with propaganda pictures of Joseph Smith running his hands along gold plates as he dictates words to a scribe.
      The church leaders know full well this is not the FULL truth … and it’s NOW clearly admitted in the “gospel topic essays” on their very own web site.
      I was NEVER in 50 years taught this. In fact .. the one time I heard about this from a Christian pastor was in the 1980s while on my mission in NZ …
      Dallin H Oaks came to our mission Feb 1988 and told us missionaries that “the Joseph with a rock and hat myth” was a lie from the pit of hell designed to destroy the kingdom of god on earth”.
      Now these so called “Anti-Mormon Lies” are Documented, verified, proven history that the Leaders have been desperately trying to squash for over 180 years!
      All they can do now is whitewash the ACTUAL truth as best they can. So so sad… yet so revealing.
      Whitewashing and Not telling the full truth is the literal definition of deception… hello that is called “lying”.
      The Mormon leaders continue to not teach the FACT joseph smith married 38 plus wives including several teenagers as young as 14, sister combinations, mother daughter combinations, and even women still married to other living men (polyandry) Its missionaries stear far away from these facts, they don’t teach these facts to their investigators, the leaders don’t teach the children the FULL truth when teaching about Joseph Smith.
      Again - In fact it’s a complete different story propped up with propaganda pictures of Joseph Smith NEVER with more then one wife …
      They never teach the true stories of Joseph sending men off to missions and then marrying their wives while they are gone. No true stories of Joseph sending letters (like the “happiness letter”) to young teenage girls telling them their family’s will be exalted in heaven if they will merry him - but be destroyed if they don’t.
      The church leaders know full well they do not teach the FULL truth to their missionaries, or to their investigators, or to their children….
      It’s all documented, verified and proven facts. Since 2014 (after being sued and threat of lawsuits). They quietly admit (although still extremely whitewashed) they admit these facts right on their own web site under “gospel topic essays”.
      Yet in public they STILL teach alternative 1/2 truth (feel good) whitewashed stories of Mormonism …
      Again… Not telling the full truth is the literal definition of deception… hello that is called “lying”.
      Even right now this very minute... The false Mormon prophets STILL "steer clear" and attempt to downplay the actual way joseph used a rock in a hat or the FACT he was a polyandry-polygamist.
      They do not create and distribute pictures, nor do they teach or testify to EVERYONE that Joseph Smith used a rock in a hat to produce the Book of Mormon, or teach how wonderful ALL his wives were. Even though most of his wives have hand written journals that explain about their lives as joseph smith’s wife. The wives (except Emma) are all dismissed into the abyss of LDS Mormonism as if they never existed.
      In fact LDS Mormonisms pictures and art and stories depict a completely different narrative that is not telling the FULL truth. So innocent people investigating and innocent children are led to believe a completely different narrative ... the propaganda manipulation and deception of Mormonism is truly astonishing and heartbreaking at the same time. The Mormon leaders truly are documented, verified and proven deceivers.
      Before the internet, the common claim about these subjects were "this is anti-Mormon literature made up by evil men to destroy the Mormon Church"
      Now - right on their very own web page under "gospel topic essays" the previously claimed "anti-Mormon literature" is now admitted to be ACTUALLY TRUE ... although still extremely whitewashed in attempt to excuse away the FACT the Mormon leaders had been lying about and hiding this information (and still do to a high extent) from the their members and the world.
      Even now the Mormon leaders don't teach this ... and MANY other issues ... to their children in Sunday school, their missionaries still leave this information out when teaching about joseph. They are taught to tell half truths in order to convince people ..
      by the way ...did I mention? … telling half the truth ... or NOT telling the whole truth is called LYING ... your Mormon leaders are LITERALLY documented and verifiably proven liars ... there is no excuse for this. the truth is just that ... THE TRUTH. And the truth is the Mormon leaders are liars.
      Those are just two examples of documented, proven and verified whitewashing, cover ups, deceptions, and outright lies by the Mormon leaders.
      There are literally hundreds of "truth Issues" that prove the Mormon leaders are liars and deceivers. If you'd like more examples.. please just ask .. we would love to share.
      Such as the Book of Abraham…
      In the gospel topic essays- the leaders of Mormonism literally explain clearly “the papyrus used by Joseph have nothing to do with Abraham and in fact date over 2000 years after Abraham even lived”. Again - not taught to missionaries, investigators, or children.
      The actual truth is this.
      Honesty and Integrity are far far more precious than Documented, verified, proven and NOW admitted Mormon lies … not only designed to make you feel special, entitled and important… but designed to rob you from your time, and energy and money… all to support a quasi Christian corporation led by deceiving men.
      Mormonism teaches and indoctrinates its members to attempt to excuse away the absolutely inexcusable lies and manipulation. I pray the wonderful people of Mormonism wake up to these facts.
      It truly is So so sad … yet so so revealing.
      May Our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ open the eyes and ears of these wonderful Mormon people to HIS Truth Light and love. In his name Jesus Christ Amen.

    • @gregoriosmith6994
      @gregoriosmith6994 6 месяцев назад

      Does anyone really believe that god will answer you????

  • @Castle1nth3sky
    @Castle1nth3sky 11 месяцев назад

    I am grateful to be apart of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day saints
    I am grateful for kindness
    I am grateful for prayer
    I am grateful for truth
    I am grateful for God The Father and his son Jesus Christ

    • @kurticmuzik_
      @kurticmuzik_ 11 месяцев назад

      Nahhhh.

    • @countryboyred
      @countryboyred 10 месяцев назад +2

      Good for you. I know a lot of people that are grateful to be Catholic. I know a lot that are grateful to be Buddhist.

    • @OneFlockOneShepherd
      @OneFlockOneShepherd 10 месяцев назад +2

      You should Watch The Bible vs Book of Mormon. Stick with the KJV Bible alone

    • @LightWalker22
      @LightWalker22 9 месяцев назад

      Please. Be honest with yourself… look yourself right in the eyes in the mirror ask yourself if you truly are being honest… then go and look for yourself.
      Why do the leaders of Mormonism continue to NOT teach the fact that Joseph Smith actually used a "rock in a hat" for his “translation” technique?
      It’s missionaries are taught to NOT shows these facts to investigators.
      Your leaders do not teach the children this when teaching about how the Book of Mormon came about…
      if fact the Mormon leaders teach a complete different story propped up with propaganda pictures of Joseph Smith running his hands along gold plates as he dictates words to a scribe.
      The church leaders know full well this is not the FULL truth … and it’s NOW clearly admitted in the “gospel topic essays” on their very own web site.
      I was NEVER in 50 years taught this. In fact .. the one time I heard about this from a Christian pastor was in the 1980s while on my mission in NZ …
      Dallin H Oaks came to our mission Feb 1988 and told us missionaries that “the Joseph with a rock and hat myth” was a lie from the pit of hell designed to destroy the kingdom of god on earth”.
      Now these so called “Anti-Mormon Lies” are Documented, verified, proven history that the Leaders have been desperately trying to squash for over 180 years!
      All they can do now is whitewash the ACTUAL truth as best they can. So so sad… yet so revealing.
      Whitewashing and Not telling the full truth is the literal definition of deception… hello that is called “lying”.
      The Mormon leaders continue to not teach the FACT joseph smith married 38 plus wives including several teenagers as young as 14, sister combinations, mother daughter combinations, and even women still married to other living men (polyandry) Its missionaries stear far away from these facts, they don’t teach these facts to their investigators, the leaders don’t teach the children the FULL truth when teaching about Joseph Smith.
      Again - In fact it’s a complete different story propped up with propaganda pictures of Joseph Smith NEVER with more then one wife …
      They never teach the true stories of Joseph sending men off to missions and then marrying their wives while they are gone. No true stories of Joseph sending letters (like the “happiness letter”) to young teenage girls telling them their family’s will be exalted in heaven if they will merry him - but be destroyed if they don’t.
      The church leaders know full well they do not teach the FULL truth to their missionaries, or to their investigators, or to their children….
      It’s all documented, verified and proven facts. Since 2014 (after being sued and threat of lawsuits). They quietly admit (although still extremely whitewashed) they admit these facts right on their own web site under “gospel topic essays”.
      Yet in public they STILL teach alternative 1/2 truth (feel good) whitewashed stories of Mormonism …
      Again… Not telling the full truth is the literal definition of deception… hello that is called “lying”.
      Even right now this very minute... The false Mormon prophets STILL "steer clear" and attempt to downplay the actual way joseph used a rock in a hat or the FACT he was a polyandry-polygamist.
      They do not create and distribute pictures, nor do they teach or testify to EVERYONE that Joseph Smith used a rock in a hat to produce the Book of Mormon, or teach how wonderful ALL his wives were. Even though most of his wives have hand written journals that explain about their lives as joseph smith’s wife. The wives (except Emma) are all dismissed into the abyss of LDS Mormonism as if they never existed.
      In fact LDS Mormonisms pictures and art and stories depict a completely different narrative that is not telling the FULL truth. So innocent people investigating and innocent children are led to believe a completely different narrative ... the propaganda manipulation and deception of Mormonism is truly astonishing and heartbreaking at the same time. The Mormon leaders truly are documented, verified and proven deceivers.
      Before the internet, the common claim about these subjects were "this is anti-Mormon literature made up by evil men to destroy the Mormon Church"
      Now - right on their very own web page under "gospel topic essays" the previously claimed "anti-Mormon literature" is now admitted to be ACTUALLY TRUE ... although still extremely whitewashed in attempt to excuse away the FACT the Mormon leaders had been lying about and hiding this information (and still do to a high extent) from the their members and the world.
      Even now the Mormon leaders don't teach this ... and MANY other issues ... to their children in Sunday school, their missionaries still leave this information out when teaching about joseph. They are taught to tell half truths in order to convince people ..
      by the way ...did I mention? … telling half the truth ... or NOT telling the whole truth is called LYING ... your Mormon leaders are LITERALLY documented and verifiably proven liars ... there is no excuse for this. the truth is just that ... THE TRUTH. And the truth is the Mormon leaders are liars.
      Those are just two examples of documented, proven and verified whitewashing, cover ups, deceptions, and outright lies by the Mormon leaders.
      There are literally hundreds of "truth Issues" that prove the Mormon leaders are liars and deceivers. If you'd like more examples.. please just ask .. we would love to share.
      Such as the Book of Abraham…
      In the gospel topic essays- the leaders of Mormonism literally explain clearly “the papyrus used by Joseph have nothing to do with Abraham and in fact date over 2000 years after Abraham even lived”. Again - not taught to missionaries, investigators, or children.
      The actual truth is this.
      Honesty and Integrity are far far more precious than Documented, verified, proven and NOW admitted Mormon lies … not only designed to make you feel special, entitled and important… but designed to rob you from your time, and energy and money… all to support a quasi Christian corporation led by deceiving men.
      Mormonism teaches and indoctrinates its members to attempt to excuse away the absolutely inexcusable lies and manipulation. I pray the wonderful people of Mormonism wake up to these facts.
      It truly is So so sad … yet so so revealing.
      May Our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ open the eyes and ears of these wonderful Mormon people to HIS Truth Light and love. In his name Jesus Christ Amen.

    • @conductorsearle
      @conductorsearle 5 месяцев назад

      The first item you list has nothing to do with the last one.

  • @akpred
    @akpred 11 месяцев назад

    I find it interesting that you don't list ANY sources.
    How am I supposed to take any of this seriously if you don't put where you found this info.
    It could easily be a story of fiction like you claim Joseph's story was

    • @LightWalker22
      @LightWalker22 9 месяцев назад

      Please. Be honest with yourself… look yourself right in the eyes in the mirror ask yourself if you truly are being honest… then go and look for yourself.
      Why do the leaders of Mormonism continue to NOT teach the fact that Joseph Smith actually used a "rock in a hat" for his “translation” technique?
      It’s missionaries are taught to NOT shows these facts to investigators.
      Your leaders do not teach the children this when teaching about how the Book of Mormon came about…
      if fact the Mormon leaders teach a complete different story propped up with propaganda pictures of Joseph Smith running his hands along gold plates as he dictates words to a scribe.
      The church leaders know full well this is not the FULL truth … and it’s NOW clearly admitted in the “gospel topic essays” on their very own web site.
      I was NEVER in 50 years taught this. In fact .. the one time I heard about this from a Christian pastor was in the 1980s while on my mission in NZ …
      Dallin H Oaks came to our mission Feb 1988 and told us missionaries that “the Joseph with a rock and hat myth” was a lie from the pit of hell designed to destroy the kingdom of god on earth”.
      Now these so called “Anti-Mormon Lies” are Documented, verified, proven history that the Leaders have been desperately trying to squash for over 180 years!
      All they can do now is whitewash the ACTUAL truth as best they can. So so sad… yet so revealing.
      Whitewashing and Not telling the full truth is the literal definition of deception… hello that is called “lying”.
      The Mormon leaders continue to not teach the FACT joseph smith married 38 plus wives including several teenagers as young as 14, sister combinations, mother daughter combinations, and even women still married to other living men (polyandry) Its missionaries stear far away from these facts, they don’t teach these facts to their investigators, the leaders don’t teach the children the FULL truth when teaching about Joseph Smith.
      Again - In fact it’s a complete different story propped up with propaganda pictures of Joseph Smith NEVER with more then one wife …
      They never teach the true stories of Joseph sending men off to missions and then marrying their wives while they are gone. No true stories of Joseph sending letters (like the “happiness letter”) to young teenage girls telling them their family’s will be exalted in heaven if they will merry him - but be destroyed if they don’t.
      The church leaders know full well they do not teach the FULL truth to their missionaries, or to their investigators, or to their children….
      It’s all documented, verified and proven facts. Since 2014 (after being sued and threat of lawsuits). They quietly admit (although still extremely whitewashed) they admit these facts right on their own web site under “gospel topic essays”.
      Yet in public they STILL teach alternative 1/2 truth (feel good) whitewashed stories of Mormonism …
      Again… Not telling the full truth is the literal definition of deception… hello that is called “lying”.
      Even right now this very minute... The false Mormon prophets STILL "steer clear" and attempt to downplay the actual way joseph used a rock in a hat or the FACT he was a polyandry-polygamist.
      They do not create and distribute pictures, nor do they teach or testify to EVERYONE that Joseph Smith used a rock in a hat to produce the Book of Mormon, or teach how wonderful ALL his wives were. Even though most of his wives have hand written journals that explain about their lives as joseph smith’s wife. The wives (except Emma) are all dismissed into the abyss of LDS Mormonism as if they never existed.
      In fact LDS Mormonisms pictures and art and stories depict a completely different narrative that is not telling the FULL truth. So innocent people investigating and innocent children are led to believe a completely different narrative ... the propaganda manipulation and deception of Mormonism is truly astonishing and heartbreaking at the same time. The Mormon leaders truly are documented, verified and proven deceivers.
      Before the internet, the common claim about these subjects were "this is anti-Mormon literature made up by evil men to destroy the Mormon Church"
      Now - right on their very own web page under "gospel topic essays" the previously claimed "anti-Mormon literature" is now admitted to be ACTUALLY TRUE ... although still extremely whitewashed in attempt to excuse away the FACT the Mormon leaders had been lying about and hiding this information (and still do to a high extent) from the their members and the world.
      Even now the Mormon leaders don't teach this ... and MANY other issues ... to their children in Sunday school, their missionaries still leave this information out when teaching about joseph. They are taught to tell half truths in order to convince people ..
      by the way ...did I mention? … telling half the truth ... or NOT telling the whole truth is called LYING ... your Mormon leaders are LITERALLY documented and verifiably proven liars ... there is no excuse for this. the truth is just that ... THE TRUTH. And the truth is the Mormon leaders are liars.
      Those are just two examples of documented, proven and verified whitewashing, cover ups, deceptions, and outright lies by the Mormon leaders.
      There are literally hundreds of "truth Issues" that prove the Mormon leaders are liars and deceivers. If you'd like more examples.. please just ask .. we would love to share.
      Such as the Book of Abraham…
      In the gospel topic essays- the leaders of Mormonism literally explain clearly “the papyrus used by Joseph have nothing to do with Abraham and in fact date over 2000 years after Abraham even lived”. Again - not taught to missionaries, investigators, or children.
      The actual truth is this.
      Honesty and Integrity are far far more precious than Documented, verified, proven and NOW admitted Mormon lies … not only designed to make you feel special, entitled and important… but designed to rob you from your time, and energy and money… all to support a quasi Christian corporation led by deceiving men.
      Mormonism teaches and indoctrinates its members to attempt to excuse away the absolutely inexcusable lies and manipulation. I pray the wonderful people of Mormonism wake up to these facts.
      It truly is So so sad … yet so so revealing.
      May Our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ open the eyes and ears of these wonderful Mormon people to HIS Truth Light and love. In his name Jesus Christ Amen.

    • @MormonDiscussion
      @MormonDiscussion  5 месяцев назад

      sources for several of the issues - mormondiscussions.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/MormonPrimer7.pdf. And my two cents, is this is a serious rabbit hole that will require you to do research and to look into issues that concern you.

  • @KennethBurkett
    @KennethBurkett 7 месяцев назад

    Just like Mark Hoffman

  • @arowberry
    @arowberry Год назад

    Is this ChatGPT or other AI generated???

  • @mattmassey5762
    @mattmassey5762 3 месяца назад

    Correction: according to Smith's diary he wasn't visited by marooni it was Levi

  • @dan9948
    @dan9948 Год назад

    Error @1:10:20 - now both men and women covenant to obey ~~their husbands~~ *God

  • @JamesW225
    @JamesW225 4 месяца назад +1

    A theological nightmare

  • @bookermoron2409
    @bookermoron2409 Год назад

    Didn't like the monotone delivery and there were many inaccuracies and inadequate detail concerning important historical events. I give it two stars.

    • @MormonDiscussion
      @MormonDiscussion  Год назад

      Thank you for the kind words

    • @bookermoron2409
      @bookermoron2409 Год назад

      @@MormonDiscussion You get enough comments stroking your ego. Do you want phony kindness or honest opinions?

    • @KAspinwall
      @KAspinwall Год назад +4

      I liked Bill's voice, research, and his presentation of the history. I give it 5 stars!

  • @webweaver3015
    @webweaver3015 7 месяцев назад

    "By their fruits ye shall know them". Have you read the Book of Mormon? I have read the Book of Mormon and have gained a love of Jesus Christ through reading the book - no better fruit than that.

    • @DesiderataSanctuary
      @DesiderataSanctuary 6 месяцев назад

      Book of Mormon: No facts about reality
      Science textbook from high school: all facts about reality

    • @MormonDiscussion
      @MormonDiscussion  5 месяцев назад

      which historical data points from the presentation do you dispute?

  • @kenyanjackson9673
    @kenyanjackson9673 Год назад

    This is sad 😔 and scary. Especially when I know the 1611 KJV, and all of the prophets have ALWAYS been Israelites. The 1940 Caucasian photo of Cesare Borgia is the graven image the church promotes as Yeshura/Jesus. The Messiah is very dark skinned, reference Rev 1:14-15, Daniel 10:5-6....Job 30:30, Wisdom of Solomon 1:5,Jeremiah 8:21 for those who like to argue this one...Jeremiah 14:2...there's much more. My point is this, by having the Caucasian guy imprinted and impressing in your mind, it's impossible to know the mysteries of the Holy Bible. Even I had to unlearn the image as much as possible and repent. If somebody will look for the Messiah based on this CESARE BORGIA guy's image...they're going to be deceived. The image alone also makes a blasphemous statement that The Most High God Yhwh, and his Holy Son Yeshura, are cursed with leprosy. This is serious stuff! When people pray to Jesus, they better know he ain't no Caucasian., and I'm saying this out of love.

    • @davesommers6427
      @davesommers6427 Год назад

      Jesus was a Jew, you may want to look up Middle Eastern, Middle Eastern colors and compare them to the Jewish people, but even if he was, who cares, he’s our savior

  • @BrianHelm-d1o
    @BrianHelm-d1o 11 месяцев назад

    It matters not how a church began on its path to manifest Honors Light to fuel spiritual consciousness.
    What matters, does the church presently move Honorably . Does the energy they manifest come from Honors Light , an absolute, God power,. The energy that fuels all creation of matter and spirit.
    What kind of resonate energy is passed on and felt when you engage a practicing Mormon parishioner.
    Not Mormon , did go to Utah to hike mountains, and spent 4 years there. I can truly say there was a positive charge felt by practicing Mormon that left you feeling safe and trusting honors light was felt and seen.

    • @LightWalker22
      @LightWalker22 9 месяцев назад

      So true. They are the best deceivers right?

  • @ChappyMcChapped-ip7bd
    @ChappyMcChapped-ip7bd 7 месяцев назад

    Great overview. Way too much flowery AI language.

  • @atheistapostate7019
    @atheistapostate7019 3 месяца назад

    It would have been cool to have the reasoning behind the 1835 First Vision account since it is so rich in its story.

    • @atheistapostate7019
      @atheistapostate7019 3 месяца назад

      The Book of Mormon characters should not have access to the book of Isiah either. Scholars place the writing of it between the 400-500bce time frame, AFTER Lehi’s family left, so how could they have had access to those as well?