@@jimlittle5769 thats because his video is about higher end watches that are cheaper than Rolex not better watches that are cheaper than Rolex. Omega and Rolex are at the same level horologically. Omega is not high end. I agree that its better in terms of what you get for the money but its not higher end.
Why is it dumb? If you have the money and want the watch, buy it. Maybe it would be dumb for you, but not everyone has your point of view and/or budget.
I bought my Sub 114060 at retail price. I can wear it 2 year and sell it for the same price if not with a profit; What's dumb about that? I have tried all current Seamster models and none can match the Sub when it come to dressing up. Rolex will simply throw in their new movement and twick it a bit and put the Seamaster to shame. Nothing against Seamaster, I actually bought one, the 2255.80 (Electric Blue), 41m, comes with the Speedster bracelet (not the ugly Bond). Omega is my "sport" diver (T-shirt/Polo) and my Sub is definitely on the dressier side of the spectrum (shirt and jacket). Just need to be smart and enjoy the best of both world :)
Tudor Pelagos is the real deal Only 3-4k, titanium case, inhouse movement with 70 hr power reserve, 500m water resistence, insane lume, and looks way better than a sub
@@evh4611 No question grade 5 is the good stuff. When compared with Titanium grade 5 (Ti 6Al-4V), Titanium grade 2 is generally selected where aqueous corrosion resistance and/or formability are required. In regard to metallurgy, the Brinell Hardness of Ti grade 2 is in the 200 range where 316L and 904L ("Oystersteel") are roughly 200 and 160 respectively. As a material selection for dive watch design... Ti grade 2 is pretty awesome.
Before watching the vid, my tips: H. Moser Pioneer, Jlc Reverso or Master Compressor, Cartier Santos, Bulgari Octo, Grand Seiko, Omega seamaster co-axial, Zenith Defy
I thank you Federico for the love and respect you showed for the very mature watchmaker H.Moser & Co. They truly are the gems which more of us should discover.
Japanese makes everything better. Now they are into making the best whisky (and they will do it). Maybe some day they would like to make the best empanada, and they will. But one thing... They set themselves to win over an specific target, and that is their strategy, when they learn the rule of a game and play it better than the masters. But they do not create games. They learned from the Swiss the best manufacturers, they did the best quartz movement, but didn't invented it. I love them, I love Seiko and Grand Seiko and knowing that are reinterpretation of Rolex, even all that tzaratzu polished, there is a Rolex inspired deep down.
@@diegobittar7425 I would definitely not say that Grand Seiko is a reinterpretation of Rolex since it carries all the DNA from Seiko (founded 40 years before Rolex) but to the higher standards they could achieve. And if just takes to compare one to each other to realize they are extremely different.
In most ways yes. While the bracelet is finished better it doesn't feel as substantial as the sub. Case finishing and dial finishing, there is no comparison, GS takes rolex to the woodshed. Fed is not a GS fan though, he'll never rave about them.
You can thank the AP Royal Oak for that. Designed in a day and pushed out the door for 3300 Swiss Francs (in 1972 money!) for a steel watch. That was more than a gold Patek and more than TEN TIMES the submariner.
@@highnrising I'd say Rolex was a tool and Tudor a less expensive tool. I know a few different fellows who are original owners of submariners going back to the 60s and 70s and they are very clear that they were not luxury items when purchased.
Great piece Fed, appreciate you taking time to put out something thoughtful that challenges the viewers to really explore higher horology watches instead of following the conventional pattern and drowning themselves in the whole Rolex whirlpool. Might we have more please?
At retail, a lot of the Rolex catalog, including the Sub is hard to argue with....at the prices some people are paying second hand....not worth it at all. Why anyone would pay 15k+ for a current GMT or Hulk is beyond me.
@@Ronaldalan114 don't get me wrong, they are excellent pieces and at the price they sell, I'd sure hope they hold the value and that marketing keeps it that way.
The Roger Dubuis Easy Diver is one of the greatest watches ever made. The curvaceous and symmetrical case design is both highly creative and technically brilliant: sexy and masculine at the same time. The movement is better finished than a Patek's. Moreover, it is 300 meters water resistant. In short, the watch is a marriage between a Rolex, a Patek, and an F.P. Journe.
These type of videos help Rolex stay at the top of the sales rank as people perceive it further as the go to brand that everyone desires and every other brand is compared to.
Kudos, Fede for always coming up with new topics that are truly relevant to everyday watch enthusiasts who may lack expertise (like myself). Thank you!
Fed - this was a fantastic program. The watches you shared had such artismal character, class , interesting design, unique identity , history, amazing quality - they presented as a remarkably interesting and fascinating collection in themselves. Just so much more interesting then a collection of only one or two brands. Very cool.
Love that Roger Dubuis! Such an underrated brand. I know its designs are not for everyone but you can only appreciate it when you see the watch up close
I take Metro North New Haven line everyday from Greenwich. I see at least 5 subs before I leave the train and about 5-10 walking to my job in mid town. After a short lunch break and walking back to Grand Central I will have seen an additional 10-20 subs. While the sub is a beautiful watch, they are a dime a dozen and are purely a status symbol to most from what I gather.
Rolex has become nothing about Horology anymore.. its become a commodity every piece you have mentioned is better made a better movement and better quality than any Submariner...Even the 16600 is better piece than the Submariner..but the Herd want a Sub just because....
New in demand models are impossible to get, unless you buy at a mark up in the secondary market ... or get unethical favored status with an unethical AD.
Everytime i see a video taking about the sub, i always count myself lucky to have bought the no date ceramic sub at a hair below 9k sgd retail after discount in 2012. Phew. Great video as always Federico! And keep up the good work! Nice GP btw!
i just picked up my Sub for $5,500. I was actually looking for Explorer 2 when I was able to strike this deal. It is a no date 1997 sub that is basically flawless.
Great channel! Thanks for all the great RUclips videos! If i want to buy a yellow gold rolex, 2017-2019, sub, gmt, daydate or sky dweller, wich one will gane or hold it,s value the most in a 10-15 year period? Thanks
You always show some amazing watches Federico. But I don't get why you wouldn't put a Grand Seiko on the list, they are amazing value and higher end than Rolex for sure
I have not seen the video yet, but I expect them to be Invictas with Popeye and Garfield on the dial, or I'm gonna riot!! I'm kidding obviously. Thanks for brightening up Monday, Fed.
My question is how do all of these watches you suggest, hold up in value in the secondary market? Have they appreciated in the last 5 years? A Rolex quite frankly doesn’t cost a dime. When I invest in the right time piece, and I wait and buy new at retail, the day I leave my dealer, my net worth has increased. I could care less if I’m paying $7K for a watch or $14K for a watch, what I care about is my net worth the day after my purchase. Rolex provides that security, AP, provides that, Patek provides that. A small collection of other watches provide that, but perhaps not across their entire brand offerings.
Ron Sterud all of these watches don't hold up in value very well, that's the reason you can pick them up for cheaper than a Sub. I think that's the whole point of the video. Most of the watches he presented if not all, originally cost more than a Submariner, but through depreciation they now can be bought for less money than a Sub in the secondary market; so you get a watch which has better build quality, better movements, better finishing than what you would get with the Submariner. So obviously these watches are not for you, since you care about resale value, and there's nothing wrong with that; but for some people who don't care about resale value since they're never going to sell their watches anyway, and just care about the quality of the product they're getting for the money they're spending, then these watches could be really good options.
B S in my collection, I have some seriously depreciated watches, I call them jewelry lol. But for those watches, my budget is under $5,000 for those pieces. For anything more expensive, I keep close tabs on the secondary market. If I can pick up some high horological for 60% below retail, I’ll consider it, however, I consider more how it dropped 60% and if it’s possible it could drop more. For example, I wouldn’t touch a Roger Dubuis, due to the unknown future of the brand under a VC.
Rolex buyers are only after value retention and resale value, not about "high-end" or "high horology". That's why it doesn't take a very well-informed buyer to settle for a Rolex. For US$10,000, I would prefer the Breguet Type XXI in full bracelet. The watch simply oozes quality and craftsmanship, yet features a flyback chronograph with two hands and having the second hand stacked on top of the other. So well made, you can't even tell there are two hands stacked up at the 12 o'clock home position unless one has moved away. Impeccable quality and calibration.
while i agree retention and resale is important to rolex owners I would suggest wearing a watch that says "Rolex" on it is the most important thing... I would argue that a watch buyer that buys a watch that has good retention and resale value IS a 'well informed' buyer... Rolex from a high horological stand point is very important especially in the historical innovation they have patented through the years..
And there are a lot more: - Girard Perregaux Laureato (not a dive watch) - Chopard L.U.C. Pro One Diver and L.U.C Pro One GMT - Blancpain Air Command Flyback - Ulysse Nardin Maxi Marine Diver - a lot of Divers from Omega - IWC Ingenieur and DaVinci (even as a perpetual calendar) - Hermès Dressage with In-house caliber (Vaucher), ok no diver - Parmigiani (no Divers) - and more and more and more ... And btw, I really like my GMT II
Alot of think of the Rolex day date as the trademark Rolex. I actually asked this question and most say the day date. I would say the Submariner if I had to pick
Breguet Type XX chronograph is beautiful but I don't know that it's waterproof or competes directly w/ a Submariner. Nice list, I would have included the JLC Master Compressor line, out-of-production but gorgeous sports watches that can be had at a steal.
Hey Fed... What a superb video. I had no idea the Fifty Fathoms could be had for less than a Rolex Sub. The Roger Dubuis is absolutely stunning. I have always wanted to own one some day. Thank you for this video and showing us what's out there that is cheaper than the Sub. I would like to see more of this type of video. I am not a big fan of Rolex and do not desire to own one. May peace be with you and your family always!
I would have added the new ceramic wave dial omega. Technologically better in a good number of ways, high attention to detail, a third of the price. keep up the good content Fed, cheers
Roger Dubuis Easy diver chronograph with the lemania hand wound movement with geneva seal finishing (same movement as in some phillipe patek models), that's the one to get. Love that GO, that bracelet is killer! Also see through case back. Can I really get a Blancpain fifty fathoms for less than 10k? Great video Fed, great choices, great advice.
Actually this is my price point for my next watch, less than 10k. I have experienced a lot of brands like Omega, GS, Brietling, and etc and looking to move up in terms of price. Do I go Rolex or entry level haute horology?
If your like subs, and you can get one at RRP then it a no brainer, but ultimately it depends what 'you' like the most.. personally i cant take out the 'loss' factor when buying expensive watches, so I look at what 'I' like and how much i could potentially lose in a worst case scenario ie dont like the watch anymore or I had to sell in a worst case financial situation..
I appreciate your thoughts on this subject, Federico. Certainly there are many well-made watches (arguably better made than the Sub) at a lower price point. As you pointed out, watches like the Blancplain you showed are less expensive than the Sub in the pre-owned market. At MSRP, the Fifthy Fathoms and some of the others you showed are actually more expensive. Surely many other watch brands would like to be in the position of Rolex wherein they can increase prices and limit production and still be fine. Most often than not though, buying and owning a watch is all about feelings. Either you love a timepiece or you don't. Cheers!
One thing you have to watch out when buying some of these watches are the service cost. Even taking some of these to an independent watch maker is going to leave a large mark in your wallet.
@@FedericoTalksWatches Interesting. I imagined a 3135 wouldn't run that high at an independent watch maker compered to the h moser, Roger dubuis or Breguet fly back chronograph you showcased in this video. It's been one of the reasons why I've been holding of on buying anything higher end than a Rolex.
There are better, faster and more exclusive cars than Ferrari. However, Ferrari will always be the king of exotic cars. Same rule applies to Rolex. The market will always decide.
I think that you could do a series of shows about some of the best watch producing countries and regions in the planet. You could do a weekly show on the culture, watch brands, visit tours of the watch company.
When I purchased my VC Overseas (non chrono) these were exactly my thoughts. Did I want the mass produced watch on the wrist of every little freshly bonused banker or did I want a “holy trinity” gorgeous timepiece with a badass black textured dial and Maltese Cross bracelet? I bought the VC and it has since doubled in value.
Perhaps Rolex has the easier name to pronoun e hence remember? Lol! If you look at thr BIG THREE, they all have 2 names, and some people will see oh named after the maker, just like my Daniel Wellington and Filippo Loreti collection... :)
blancpain ff chrono is as tough as rolex plus chrono and its about 11 grand, federico how can you not mention piaget with the polo fortyfive gmt flyback chronograph. high end complicated and very wearable at 12mm thick
would like to know, how many really care about the finishing or movement of a watch vs what the the general public perception of the watch your wearing is... Id say the later would out weigh the former by a very large number... human nature and peacock syndrome... unfortunately we are all pre programmed to large extent on anything we buy, wear etc etc.. is it right .. No, is it a fact ... Yes
What about the Blancpain Leman Flyback? I had the Type XX, awesome watch and loved that I had a "Breguet". Swapped it out for the, yes, Blancpain Leman Flyback, much cooler movement especially when I put the RGM exhibition back. Great video as always Federico, and I totally agree with your point. ps. the "watch guy snob" in me would much prefer most of the watches you mentioned (especially the one you were wearing!) over a Sub. Forgive me, but I feel like it's the watch the show-off guy get who doesn't really know much about watches. That said, he made a good decision in terms of resale value and over quality!
The good thing about the Rolex game/bubble thing is if you’re not prepared to play it there’s a whole bunch of much more interesting stuff out there. The new Seamaster is a better watch than the sub too.
As a Swedish novice collector in love with blue Seamaster chronos, without the reach to the US or Japanese markets, I wonder If pre-owned Ulysse Nardin maxi marine divers (263-33) for around 3500 us dollars in West Europe with box and papers and not older than 7 years are a valid or high end enough contender to be on the list.
Omega Speedmaster and Seamaster. As good as Rolex, cheaper new.
I own a seamaster it's better than a sub
@Chong Li I own a two tone black bay and yes it is a great watch
@@billcore6295 Absolutely true. Apparently Frederico couldn't bring himself to mention the most obvious choice: The Seamaster.
@Mrs Doubtfire My speedy was with me in the Andes, Amazonas and Congo. And yes it was many times in the water.
@@jimlittle5769 thats because his video is about higher end watches that are cheaper than Rolex not better watches that are cheaper than Rolex. Omega and Rolex are at the same level horologically. Omega is not high end. I agree that its better in terms of what you get for the money but its not higher end.
The point is well made. Rolex is overpriced and paying today’s inflated prices for Rolex is just plain dumb.
It’s the status symbol, but they also retain their value. It’s hard to argue getting one either
@MA Campisi which VC model did you buy?
Why is it dumb? If you have the money and want the watch, buy it. Maybe it would be dumb for you, but not everyone has your point of view and/or budget.
MA Campisi I’d get the VC! It’s so special!
I bought my Sub 114060 at retail price. I can wear it 2 year and sell it for the same price if not with a profit; What's dumb about that? I have tried all current Seamster models and none can match the Sub when it come to dressing up. Rolex will simply throw in their new movement and twick it a bit and put the Seamaster to shame. Nothing against Seamaster, I actually bought one, the 2255.80 (Electric Blue), 41m, comes with the Speedster bracelet (not the ugly Bond). Omega is my "sport" diver (T-shirt/Polo) and my Sub is definitely on the dressier side of the spectrum (shirt and jacket). Just need to be smart and enjoy the best of both world :)
Tudor Pelagos is the real deal
Only 3-4k, titanium case, inhouse movement with 70 hr power reserve, 500m water resistence, insane lume, and looks way better than a sub
Only grade two titanium. Even the Seiko Shogun has grade five titanium.
Have you tried one on? I have and in no way does it look better than a Sub!!!
I own both and the sub is just boring tbh. It‘s a nice investment though. Pelagos for wear, Sub for the safe.
@@evh4611 No question grade 5 is the good stuff. When compared with Titanium grade 5 (Ti 6Al-4V), Titanium grade 2 is generally selected where aqueous corrosion resistance and/or formability are required. In regard to metallurgy, the Brinell Hardness of Ti grade 2 is in the 200 range where 316L and 904L ("Oystersteel") are roughly 200 and 160 respectively. As a material selection for dive watch design... Ti grade 2 is pretty awesome.
Before watching the vid, my tips: H. Moser Pioneer, Jlc Reverso or Master Compressor, Cartier Santos, Bulgari Octo, Grand Seiko, Omega seamaster co-axial, Zenith Defy
Its actually unreal the amount of better/higher end watches you can buy for the submariner at retail price let alone resale
I thank you Federico for the love and respect you showed for the very mature watchmaker H.Moser & Co. They truly are the gems which more of us should discover.
I've got that 50 Fathoms and it is nice! Have had it for years, never got tired of it.
I'd argue that most of the Grand Seiko line is higher end than Rolex too.
Japanese makes everything better. Now they are into making the best whisky (and they will do it). Maybe some day they would like to make the best empanada, and they will. But one thing... They set themselves to win over an specific target, and that is their strategy, when they learn the rule of a game and play it better than the masters. But they do not create games. They learned from the Swiss the best manufacturers, they did the best quartz movement, but didn't invented it. I love them, I love Seiko and Grand Seiko and knowing that are reinterpretation of Rolex, even all that tzaratzu polished, there is a Rolex inspired deep down.
I agree and a consideration. Might be one of my next watches. I don't have quartz hate. It comes to the movement
Yes
@@diegobittar7425 I would definitely not say that Grand Seiko is a reinterpretation of Rolex since it carries all the DNA from Seiko (founded 40 years before Rolex) but to the higher standards they could achieve. And if just takes to compare one to each other to realize they are extremely different.
In most ways yes. While the bracelet is finished better it doesn't feel as substantial as the sub.
Case finishing and dial finishing, there is no comparison, GS takes rolex to the woodshed. Fed is not a GS fan though, he'll never rave about them.
What about Grand Seiko? Probably the best choice today: vert high finishing, spring drive accuracy and great price
C. chelious At the end of the day you buy what you like.
He hates GS.
Submariner waa never a luxury watch. People and market turned a tool watch into a luxury item. 😎
You can thank the AP Royal Oak for that. Designed in a day and pushed out the door for 3300 Swiss Francs (in 1972 money!) for a steel watch. That was more than a gold Patek and more than TEN TIMES the submariner.
Its a “luxury sport watch” but never been a dress watch.
You can wear Submariner with business suit but not with black-tie.
@@highnrising I'd say Rolex was a tool and Tudor a less expensive tool. I know a few different fellows who are original owners of submariners going back to the 60s and 70s and they are very clear that they were not luxury items when purchased.
賜龍怜音 unless you’re an early James Bond
@@jimbeam4111 exactly
I tell you all this channel is one the very best watch channels on RUclips. Hands Down
I’ve looked at the Blanc Pain but they seem just as expensive.
Defenstrator yes they hold there value very well
Federico this is the best video you made so far in my humble opinion! You absolutely nailed it! This is a perfect list
I'm all for announcing companies most people don't know but as a worthy mention I think the Seamaster 300M should have been on the list.
InChrist87 couldn’t agree more. I have to disagree with every choice he listed from a depreciation point of view
Great piece Fed, appreciate you taking time to put out something thoughtful that challenges the viewers to really explore higher horology watches instead of following the conventional pattern and drowning themselves in the whole Rolex whirlpool.
Might we have more please?
In a long line of excellent videos, this is right near the top. A terrific subject that needs more exploration, and very well done. A+++
I bought the VC Overseas 2 brand new with full warranty from an AD in the Us for the price of a Submariner back in 2016.
At retail, a lot of the Rolex catalog, including the Sub is hard to argue with....at the prices some people are paying second hand....not worth it at all. Why anyone would pay 15k+ for a current GMT or Hulk is beyond me.
hype corrodes the human spirit .. that's the reason
@@0dium. Well said
The GO is probably my favorite on the listt for a regular, everyday watch. They're so well made.
I thought that the Zenith el Premero and at least one JLC would have made the list but couldn't agree more with the Breguet marine and the Type XX.
"Rolex, the king of marketing"
Daniel Lee I would agree. And that makes me feel good as an owner for the value of my time pieces moving forward.
@@Ronaldalan114 don't get me wrong, they are excellent pieces and at the price they sell, I'd sure hope they hold the value and that marketing keeps it that way.
Bravo! I would add, "the King of Unethical Marketing".
The Roger Dubuis Easy Diver is one of the greatest watches ever made. The curvaceous and symmetrical case design is both highly creative and technically brilliant: sexy and masculine at the same time. The movement is better finished than a Patek's. Moreover, it is 300 meters water resistant. In short, the watch is a marriage between a Rolex, a Patek, and an F.P. Journe.
You had me at Blancpain!
Agree with you Feds.
Last two videos are home runs.
Take care
These type of videos help Rolex stay at the top of the sales rank as people perceive it further as the go to brand that everyone desires and every other brand is compared to.
Thanks for the information. There is much more to explore in horology outside Rolex
“Carrying the water” for watch collecting again! Thank you. 😀
That Blancpain.... one day, one day.
Kudos, Fede for always coming up with new topics that are truly relevant to everyday watch enthusiasts who may lack expertise (like myself). Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it Andres
I would like to add the Omega Seamaster 300M.
Saw them in the ATL boutique, yesterday. So much better of a machine than a Rolex sub.
@Al B. I like the double clasp on some of the models and the switch on some of the others
Fed - this was a fantastic program. The watches you shared had such artismal character, class , interesting design, unique identity , history, amazing quality - they presented as a remarkably interesting and fascinating collection in themselves. Just so much more interesting then a collection of only one or two brands. Very cool.
Nice job Fed. I like Rolex, just ain’t paying the price, nice alternatives. 👍
Love that Roger Dubuis! Such an underrated brand. I know its designs are not for everyone but you can only appreciate it when you see the watch up close
Gotta love Moser... Though with Vacheron in the race, that's a tough call.
I take Metro North New Haven line everyday from Greenwich. I see at least 5 subs before I leave the train and about 5-10 walking to my job in mid town. After a short lunch break and walking back to Grand Central I will have seen an additional 10-20 subs. While the sub is a beautiful watch, they are a dime a dozen and are purely a status symbol to most from what I gather.
The vacheron and that last breguet 😍. Great video topic and content
Rolex has become nothing about Horology anymore.. its become a commodity every piece you have mentioned is better made a better movement and better quality than any Submariner...Even the 16600 is better piece than the Submariner..but the Herd want a Sub just because....
Barry island agree that the 16600 is a better choice and for $8000 you can get a mint one.
You forgot Jeager Lecoultre
A reverso small seconds(the newish blue one)- absolutely stunning watch and my next "proper" purchase
What makes Rolex special and hard to get?
Answer: “US”
New in demand models are impossible to get, unless you buy at a mark up in the secondary market ... or get unethical favored status with an unethical AD.
The craftsmanship and detail that goes into a Breguet blows away the well built ordinary of a Rolex 10 out of 10 times.
You might be able to squeeze into a Lange Saxonia for $10.500!
Agreed. I tried to stick to steel every day watches though.
@@FedericoTalksWatches that makes sense, Lange's aren't really everyday watches for most people
Breguet always captures my eye and my heart.
Fed you had two watches on my short list. Blancpain and the Brequet Type XX. Awesome list as a whole. And yes I do love my ceramic sub lol.
Fantastic video with great points.
Everytime i see a video taking about the sub, i always count myself lucky to have bought the no date ceramic sub at a hair below 9k sgd retail after discount in 2012. Phew.
Great video as always Federico! And keep up the good work! Nice GP btw!
i just picked up my Sub for $5,500. I was actually looking for Explorer 2 when I was able to strike this deal. It is a no date 1997 sub that is basically flawless.
I’ve got a beautiful Breitling Sea Wolf!
Great channel! Thanks for all the great RUclips videos! If i want to buy a yellow gold rolex, 2017-2019, sub, gmt, daydate or sky dweller, wich one will gane or hold it,s value the most in a 10-15 year period? Thanks
Everybody thinking: make profit with Rolex, and buy these watches “USED”..
Great vid Fed! Love seeing you wear the GP. Between the VC Overseas vs. GP Laureato, which would be you choice? Keep up the content.
You always show some amazing watches Federico. But I don't get why you wouldn't put a Grand Seiko on the list, they are amazing value and higher end than Rolex for sure
And an Omega Seamaster 300m !! By far the best contender....
I have not seen the video yet, but I expect them to be Invictas with Popeye and Garfield on the dial, or I'm gonna riot!! I'm kidding obviously. Thanks for brightening up Monday, Fed.
Thanks for watching!
My question is how do all of these watches you suggest, hold up in value in the secondary market? Have they appreciated in the last 5 years? A Rolex quite frankly doesn’t cost a dime. When I invest in the right time piece, and I wait and buy new at retail, the day I leave my dealer, my net worth has increased. I could care less if I’m paying $7K for a watch or $14K for a watch, what I care about is my net worth the day after my purchase. Rolex provides that security, AP, provides that, Patek provides that. A small collection of other watches provide that, but perhaps not across their entire brand offerings.
Ron Sterud all of these watches don't hold up in value very well, that's the reason you can pick them up for cheaper than a Sub. I think that's the whole point of the video. Most of the watches he presented if not all, originally cost more than a Submariner, but through depreciation they now can be bought for less money than a Sub in the secondary market; so you get a watch which has better build quality, better movements, better finishing than what you would get with the Submariner. So obviously these watches are not for you, since you care about resale value, and there's nothing wrong with that; but for some people who don't care about resale value since they're never going to sell their watches anyway, and just care about the quality of the product they're getting for the money they're spending, then these watches could be really good options.
B S in my collection, I have some seriously depreciated watches, I call them jewelry lol. But for those watches, my budget is under $5,000 for those pieces. For anything more expensive, I keep close tabs on the secondary market. If I can pick up some high horological for 60% below retail, I’ll consider it, however, I consider more how it dropped 60% and if it’s possible it could drop more. For example, I wouldn’t touch a Roger Dubuis, due to the unknown future of the brand under a VC.
WAIT! no invicta pro diver Micky mouse edition?
How about presenting 7 dive watches with similar or superior quality / prestige than the Sub for lower price.
kaypee1972 the Pelagos is a no brainer
Rolex buyers are only after value retention and resale value, not about "high-end" or "high horology". That's why it doesn't take a very well-informed buyer to settle for a Rolex.
For US$10,000, I would prefer the Breguet Type XXI in full bracelet. The watch simply oozes quality and craftsmanship, yet features a flyback chronograph with two hands and having the second hand stacked on top of the other. So well made, you can't even tell there are two hands stacked up at the 12 o'clock home position unless one has moved away. Impeccable quality and calibration.
while i agree retention and resale is important to rolex owners I would suggest wearing a watch that says "Rolex" on it is the most important thing... I would argue that a watch buyer that buys a watch that has good retention and resale value IS a 'well informed' buyer... Rolex from a high horological stand point is very important especially in the historical innovation they have patented through the years..
Rolex has become a fashion brand every mug must have one
I feel that Rolex telegraphs Nouveau Riche...
Mainstream Rolex like batman, pepsi, hulk, sub, yeah, boring stuff. But they also have Sky Dweller, Root Beer etc. Gorgeous pieces.
Great content! Congratulations
Most of these watches are more expensive then the Rolex sub. Such as the Blancpain, Vacheron, Moser. Or am I incorrect?
He's talking about how much you could get one preowned, not retail price; especially now that people are paying over retail for Rolex.
B S ahhh cool. Was misled by the title. Cheers
And there are a lot more:
- Girard Perregaux Laureato (not a dive watch)
- Chopard L.U.C. Pro One Diver and L.U.C Pro One GMT
- Blancpain Air Command Flyback
- Ulysse Nardin Maxi Marine Diver
- a lot of Divers from Omega
- IWC Ingenieur and DaVinci (even as a perpetual calendar)
- Hermès Dressage with In-house caliber (Vaucher), ok no diver
- Parmigiani (no Divers)
- and more and more and more ...
And btw, I really like my GMT II
an6 Ingenieur is well made for sure but wouldnt pay that much for a Sellita... Agree with the rest of the list tho
Alot of think of the Rolex day date as the trademark Rolex. I actually asked this question and most say the day date. I would say the Submariner if I had to pick
Breguet Type XX chronograph is beautiful but I don't know that it's waterproof or competes directly w/ a Submariner. Nice list, I would have included the JLC Master Compressor line, out-of-production but gorgeous sports watches that can be had at a steal.
Hey Fed... What a superb video. I had no idea the Fifty Fathoms could be had for less than a Rolex Sub. The Roger Dubuis is absolutely stunning. I have always wanted to own one some day. Thank you for this video and showing us what's out there that is cheaper than the Sub. I would like to see more of this type of video. I am not a big fan of Rolex and do not desire to own one.
May peace be with you and your family always!
I would have added the new ceramic wave dial omega. Technologically better in a good number of ways, high attention to detail, a third of the price. keep up the good content Fed, cheers
Brilliant, well thought out and articulate post. Just terrific.
I like the Vacheron Constantin Overseas and the Breguet Marine.
Nice presentation and information. Thanks Frederico
💕🕵🏼♀️
Roger Dubuis Easy diver chronograph with the lemania hand wound movement with geneva seal finishing (same movement as in some phillipe patek models), that's the one to get. Love that GO, that bracelet is killer! Also see through case back. Can I really get a Blancpain fifty fathoms for less than 10k? Great video Fed, great choices, great advice.
Best video in a while... which is saying something, because all your videos are great. Thanks!
Actually this is my price point for my next watch, less than 10k. I have experienced a lot of brands like Omega, GS, Brietling, and etc and looking to move up in terms of price. Do I go Rolex or entry level haute horology?
Skip the Rolex go for the AP 😉. You can do it.
If your like subs, and you can get one at RRP then it a no brainer, but ultimately it depends what 'you' like the most.. personally i cant take out the 'loss' factor when buying expensive watches, so I look at what 'I' like and how much i could potentially lose in a worst case scenario ie dont like the watch anymore or I had to sell in a worst case financial situation..
I appreciate your thoughts on this subject, Federico. Certainly there are many well-made watches (arguably better made than the Sub) at a lower price point. As you pointed out, watches like the Blancplain you showed are less expensive than the Sub in the pre-owned market. At MSRP, the Fifthy Fathoms and some of the others you showed are actually more expensive. Surely many other watch brands would like to be in the position of Rolex wherein they can increase prices and limit production and still be fine. Most often than not though, buying and owning a watch is all about feelings. Either you love a timepiece or you don't. Cheers!
One thing you have to watch out when buying some of these watches are the service cost. Even taking some of these to an independent watch maker is going to leave a large mark in your wallet.
Not that bad actually compared to a sub, most are only marginally more.
@@FedericoTalksWatches Interesting. I imagined a 3135 wouldn't run that high at an independent watch maker compered to the h moser, Roger dubuis or Breguet fly back chronograph you showcased in this video. It's been one of the reasons why I've been holding of on buying anything higher end than a Rolex.
@@FedericoTalksWatches how much to service a Moser and VC and Blancpain compared to Rolex Frederico?
Great message! It's all about discovering new brands and models! Thanks!
Just revisiting this video after 4 years and I wish could still get a Breguet Marine or Overseas for under $10k. I should’ve bought both back then
No mention of GS?
Nope.
SBGJ213 Titanium Hi Beat 3600 9s86 calibre GMT £6750 new 👌
Great video fed as always and yeah great value watches but waaay more expensive when service time comes around !
Seiko Astron 5X, Omega 15000 Gauss, Citizen Attesa GPS, G-Shock MR.G, Casio Oceanus, Mühle Glashütte S.A.R. Rescue-Timer, & Sinn T2 EZM 15
Hey Federico! what about making a video about some alternatives to Rolex GMT II, something between the 5k to 10k range
Alejandro Torres Tudor gmt. It looks better Than the new Rolex
Love that GP!
Everything except the Moser was not visually appealing to ME. No offense people.
My other subscriptions are for under 500 and 1k watches. I learn about high end horology on this channel. Keep them coming.
How many of those would hold their value like the Rolex sub?
Top Vid mate 👍🏻
Good stuff, Rolex is not the end or be all there is!
There are better, faster and more exclusive cars than Ferrari. However, Ferrari will always be the king of exotic cars. Same rule applies to Rolex. The market will always decide.
Except Patek is Ferrari and Rolex is much much more mid level
@@FedericoTalksWatches maybe.. say... a ...Maserati... nice to look at cost quite a bit but nothing to write home about under the hood lol :P
I think that you could do a series of shows about some of the best watch producing countries and regions in the planet. You could do a weekly show on the culture, watch brands, visit tours of the watch company.
When I purchased my VC Overseas (non chrono) these were exactly my thoughts. Did I want the mass produced watch on the wrist of every little freshly bonused banker or did I want a “holy trinity” gorgeous timepiece with a badass black textured dial and Maltese Cross bracelet? I bought the VC and it has since doubled in value.
Perhaps Rolex has the easier name to pronoun e hence remember? Lol! If you look at thr BIG THREE, they all have 2 names, and some people will see oh named after the maker, just like my Daniel Wellington and Filippo Loreti collection... :)
I would suggest the Ocean rover 2 based on the quality of the watch
blancpain ff chrono is as tough as rolex plus chrono and its about 11 grand, federico how can you not mention piaget with the polo fortyfive gmt flyback chronograph. high end complicated and very wearable at 12mm thick
Amazing video Fed! Thank you
Great video!
Although some of the comments below just reinforce my prejudice that for many the Rolex is "about the dosh and not the watch"
would like to know, how many really care about the finishing or movement of a watch vs what the the general public perception of the watch your wearing is... Id say the later would out weigh the former by a very large number... human nature and peacock syndrome... unfortunately we are all pre programmed to large extent on anything we buy, wear etc etc.. is it right .. No, is it a fact ... Yes
The bracelet of the Vacheron Constantin Overseas generation 2 is the best and most interesting bracelet ever made in the history of watchmaking!
What about the Blancpain Leman Flyback? I had the Type XX, awesome watch and loved that I had a "Breguet". Swapped it out for the, yes, Blancpain Leman Flyback, much cooler movement especially when I put the RGM exhibition back. Great video as always Federico, and I totally agree with your point. ps. the "watch guy snob" in me would much prefer most of the watches you mentioned (especially the one you were wearing!) over a Sub. Forgive me, but I feel like it's the watch the show-off guy get who doesn't really know much about watches. That said, he made a good decision in terms of resale value and over quality!
The Breguet Marine is stunning, but looks so much better in person IMO.
Great video as usual Federico. Some much nicer alternatives there👍👍
JLC Polaris
You cannot resist Vacheron Constantin when it comes with 10K price tag.
Yep. Always a buy in any books.
You forgot Squale . TVG told me to say that . Nice one Federico .
Pure class
The good thing about the Rolex game/bubble thing is if you’re not prepared to play it there’s a whole bunch of much more interesting stuff out there. The new Seamaster is a better watch than the sub too.
What is the median service price of a Breget or a Blancpain?
I want know too
My FF was 550 euro to service via the AD
As a Swedish novice collector in love with blue Seamaster chronos, without the reach to the US or Japanese markets, I wonder If pre-owned Ulysse Nardin maxi marine divers (263-33) for around 3500 us dollars in West Europe with box and papers and not older than 7 years are a valid or high end enough contender to be on the list.
Thank you for your service!!!!! 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏