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I started with Kenneth's revelations about Christianity about 25 yrs ago. Great work and scholarly research. Humphrey was an awakening beacon for me CONFIRMED by the following yrs of further research. Kudos for bringing on Kenneth on your show.
@@daleeloph6888 John 18: 35"Am I a Jew?" Pilate replied. "It was your people and your chief priests who handed you over to me. What is it you have done?"36Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."37"You are a king, then!" said Pilate. Jesus answered, "You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."
While growing out of Xtianity I originally eschewed the books of Paul and the other letters after Acts and decided that I should focus on the gospels and, after concentrating on them for several years their contradictions and disagreements on timelines and what Jesus said I finally gave up on the entire affair. I had lost most of my original faith in my early 20's when I, as a fundamental literalist found out that Isaiah had three authors. I could never rectify the "literal word of god" claim with the fact that several authors were responsible for the authorship of one book under the name of the original prophet, wrote over a hundred years apart and NO ONE HAD MENTIONED THIS TO ME OR ANYONE I KNEW! The more I looked into it the less likely it seemed to be a representation of truth of any kind, philosophical, spiritual or actual.
You should check out David H'Notsari's channel for truth on the discrepancies between Paul and Jesus and all throughout our "bible" as a whole. He explains with proof texts very well.
Scholars suggest that Isaiah has 3 different authors/parts because the events in Isaiah predict events hundreds of years before they’ve occurred, which doesn’t fit into secular history. It’s merely a hypothesis to make Isaiah congruent with their naturalistic methodology. There is no actual evidence that it has been written in 3 separate parts, and when Isaiah manuscripts/scrolls have been found they’ve only ever found the full Isaiah scroll, never 1/3 of a part. History and archaeology isn’t a proper science where you can do controlled trials or definitively prove anything. These Biblical scholars and historians use educated speculation, and an assumption of “absence of evidence = no evidence”. So don’t be so easily deceived and give up the faith, Jesus is real and he loves you so repent.
@@elizabethstockton1996 No thank you, I have all of the information I need to make a decision about the truth of the bible, and from this gentlemans video titles it's obviously another take on the same old book.
@@mytestimonytojesuschrist "Biblical" scholars? No thank you, I've studied enough of those to realize they're trying to make actual history fit into their interpretation of 'biblical' history. The multiple textbooks and treatises I've read on Paul and Isaiah are pretty definitive, especially on Isaiah, as the authorship changes at least twice, not just the verb tenses but the use of language altogether, structure, descriptors, and syntax, and finding 'complete' texts together isn't an indication of singular authorship, just a fairly decent conservation of a copy of the originally combined one. Nevermind the absence of evidence for any diety every claimed, including JHWH, Jeshua or that ghosty uncle, that's another story.
@@mistahbreeze4412 Again, you're wrong. The text has been analyzed via stylometry. Look up Brigham Young University "A Scientific Analysis of Isaiah Scholarship". Running it through authorship attribution software makes it clear that a single author wrote it. This study has still not been debunked in any form. There are other peculiarities which point to a single author as well, Josephus in antiquities of the jews wrote about how Cyrus king of persia read about himself in the isaiah scroll. And there is no mention of idolatry in any other post-exile prophet, yet in Isaiah there is.
I love how Ken never pulls any punches, he calls 'em as 'e sees 'em. I think the character of Paul in Acts is almost entirely fictional, but I think an early church leader wrote the original versions of the letters and had to be rewritten by the later church. In any case, it's always fun to have Ken point out the various absurdities in the astounding rubbish from the NT.
Apostle Paul, like Moses, Abraham and Sarah, never existed. Noah aka Osiris aka Egyptian Seb is estimated to be five billion years old. The seven churches, of Asia (Fire) are the constellations Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, and Libra. These are also the seven sons of Job (Earth) and the seven days of creation, the seven braids of Samson's hair, the seven locks of Eve's hair, etc., etc.,
I have heard that Paul was a rewrite of Apollonius of Tyana. I think it was DM Murdoch who mentioned it. Anyone else heard of it? I’m trying to figure all this out so I can get the facts.
@@danmiller6462 There is a huge mix of Pagan Mythology. The nymph Anobret was the "mother" of the only begotten (loved) son. This son become Isaac and many other second borns (represents summer). The firstborns (winter) are the mean ones who cause all kinds of trouble. Secondborns (summer) are always favored because this is the season of plant growth (survival). Recommend "Hebrew Mythology," by Milton Woolley. He gives a lot of good references.
@@harveywabbit9541 hello, this is second time I’ve come across the winter/firstborn and summer/second born, forgive my ignorance, but do you know why the winter was considered first? Like where/when/why was is determined that winter came before summer? Thanks!
My significant other always says, "If a person has to tell you to trust them or that they are not lying, don't trust them, they are lying." Little does he know...his favorite religion is based off a dude that does that a lot :)
Never mind the fact that in Psalms 118:8 it says: "It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man." Yet that's exactly what they expect you to do. Trust the word! Trust the gospels! Trust the apostles! Trust the scripture! Trust the Book of Romans! Trust the words of men! That one verse self-refutes the entire scheme.
"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. - St. Paul, Romans 16:17-18.
Because the Apostles were Gnostic. That’s why all the books attributed to the Apostles are “banned”, except for the forgery of Peter which made it into the NT.
He wrote more then them and was used in greater ways than they were. God always uses the weaker person or nation to accomplish the greater tasks, and Paul admitted he was the least among them, yet was used to established the church and revealed the doctrines of grace.
I’m 14 minutes in. He makes a very good point. Just like we have religious charlatans and preachers making wild claims and prophecy in modern times, the same was happening back in ancient times. And just as we have gullible people who follow religious nonsense today, there were an abundance of gullible people back then. And just like there were skeptics and critical thinkers back then, so we are today.
Thank you Mr Ms vision this is one of your very best shows sometimes I get angry with your guests but this guy's talking common sense thank you for this wonderful programming 👏👏👏👏👏👍😀
Derek is a wonderful human being. Thanks for the enlightening discussion. As a Gulf War veteran, I worry about my beloved homeland, the USA. I feel safer living in Southeast Asia where women have their rights to choice, and gay people are genuinely free
I am a dedicated fan of your channel. One of the incredible things I've realized as to how much comprehensive and pertinent material you have going back years (such as this episode from 3 years ago). I am fascinated by Paul. I believe that, if the gospels never existed, Christianity as we know it today would be pretty much as it is but if the so-called writings of Paul didn't exist, Christianity, if it took a form at all, would be about as historically significant as the teachings of the Essenes. I’ve always wondered how Paul, within such a short time, could have metamorphized from being a tent-maker with a hobby for persecuting Christians into being the single most influential thinker, theologian, evangelist, and writer in modern history. This episode makes a whole lot of sense. Derek, thank you so much for your years of great content creation.
Its weird how a person who never saw jesus( paul) with his own eyes writes so much about him more than Peter and other people who knew jesus in real life
Paul in his Epistles make a few remark about Jesus, but does not go into depth about the historical and bodily existance of Jesus like the Gospels do. The phenomenum Jesus was important to the writer of the Pauline Epistles, a real man called Jesus wandering around at the time Pilate ruled Judea was not.
Great discussion guys. However Ken didn't mention 'astounding rubbish' even once. I want to just to throw this idea out there: I'm trying to figure out a plausible scenario on how Christianity became a popular religion before Constantine. I don't think Paul is much of a historical figure but I wonder if his supposed writings are part of some kind of entertainment package. Paul seems to find himself at the community theatre many times during his, um, good news stories. So perhaps it's a theatrical performance? Is he a charlatan or a motivational speaker that charges admission? And Is he 'performing' with his male companions to deliver these messages? And after making his audience feel better, did this novelty grow with fan fiction? Maybe the ancient Greek plays were seen as being too old-timey. Anyway, keep up the good works Derek and Ken; y'all are great.
herbal gerbil - that's a fascinating thought. I hadn't even thought of this as a possibility. I need to do yet another reading of his 'authentic' epistles, through yet another lens is I think. Thanks.
Me too. Excluding Paul from the picture, how and why did this religion grow? Augustine said Christianity was ancient and existed before Christ. But why suddenly did it get written up, promulgated, and dispersed? The only thing I can think of is the Romans writing it down, codifying it, and using it to pacify the masses because Rome was falling apart.
Derek, what can I say, everyday I sit and watch your channel and find a whole range of emotions, love your Channel so much, I am an ex-Christian and ex-Pastor. I wish when I was in second year Theology, 25 years ago I could have watched your channel or it would have saved many years of my life. Thank you for your channel, it brings peace to my heart, thank you Brother. Ian Australia,
It probably wouldn't have saved years of your life. Neurological rewiring of beliefs takes TIME! Some longer than others. Some are completely unable, it seems. Maybe it could have saved you many years, but I'm guessing it is unlikely.
Vespasian was likely Paul in the New Testament since it says in Titus 1:4 that Titus was one of the younger men whom Paul discipled and described as his 'son in the faith that we share'. Paul's character was taken from Saul from the Old Testament.
It's so refreshing to have someone who has researched as much, is as knowledgeable as Ken is just call it out for what it is. The points he makes about how ridiculous things are, really are as plain as could be. We just normally have 'scholars' circle jerking about 'Christology' and which texts are 'authentic'. Which very much obfuscates the absurdities of these characters having been historical figures. When given the chance to learn about the actual histories, cultures and people of the time, without trying to shoehorn silliness into history, makes the myriad mistakes very easy to spot.
Great interview! I was slightly surprised not to hear Ken mention what he has on his website (maybe there is later stuff I've missed): the epistles of "Paul" were first "found" by Marcion (floruit 2nd C) and "fortuitously" supported Marcion's position against the burgeoning mainstream Catholicism. He had some gnostic ideas about the OT god being a mean bastard who made the material world and was subordinate to the rather nicer NT god. If wikipedia is right: I am too lazy to do more research into something like that. I suppose we are stuck with having nothing that is contemporary to what is alleged to have happened: all surviving manuscripts are copies of copies of copies of... of documents dating to years, decades or centuries after the alleged events, and it's a real puzzle to work out what was originally intended. Which is fun! :-D [Edit] Oh, and someone (possibly Ken - my memory is not what I hope it once was) pointed out the similarity of Paul's journey to the travels of Odysseus, which suggests literary inspiration rather than historical recollection.
Marcion of Sinope was introduced to me in a book written by Rodney Stark. Stark makes a strong point about spreading of religion through family ties of direct relations and pointing out how small Christianity was in the 2nd century. ( not even 0,5% of the population against 5% of the population being Jews in Diaspora) But more important was his point that Christanity kept a very Jewish character till early 4th century. It was going to the grain of Jewishism that got Marcion in troubled waters and indeed breaking with ancient Jewish tradition and restriction is one of Paul's themes, maybe therefor Marcion favoured those writings above other more tradional ones. I think "mainstream Catholicism" became an issue only after Constantine even more after it became a state religion. In the first 3 centuries christiany was too small and diverse to speak of mainstream Catholicism.
Surely, Rome had some kind of system for moving mail for private citizens. Traders could have carried letters for a price. Epistles existed. That's not an argument against Paul's existence. The argument that one guy could have done it does weigh more against his actual existence.
The word is out! "Conmen". Its rarely used, but its really the basis of it all. Probably a few locos in the melee too, but the crafty conmen at the helm. Selling hope in a very harsh world.
Right. As a former mormon I see hiw Joseph Smith copied Paul in creating a new religion himself. He as a known conman, he and his dad practiced magic and tricked people into treasure hunting without they ever finding any treasure. His real treasure was conning people by claiming he saw yahweh and Jesus in a vision and they told him to form mormonism. Joseph Smith is somehow more important for many mormons than Jesus.
They often talk about Hellenistic elements in the gospels, but isn't there a lot of Ulysses in Paul, with his odyssey and his shipwreck on Malta. He is like a Christian Ulysses.
Where the rubber meets the road, Christians helped me to leave home forty years ago, putting me up for free for nine months until I could get a job and live on my own. I owed them a lot, but couldn't be a Christian, because Divine Intervention and natural law are incompatible. So I tried to figure out how to build a bridge with them. It took a virtual library's worth of books about Jesus and the Bible and having a light go off in my head five years ago for this to be finally resolved. What I had overlooked was that Paul has nothing to say about Jesus' life in his letters. That's extremely dishonorable if you want to claim to be a follower of Jesus. So I realized that all Christians must agree that his life mattered and that he was worth following--"imitating". He had his own agenda and goals he was pursuing, after all (assuming that he really existed, which is an open question to me). This life matters--so much, that there's really no time to think about another life while living this one. And that's as it should be.
Paul was the first televangelist....he went around (allegedly) collecting MONEY to take back to Jerusalem in order to make sacrifices in the Temple on behalf of the heathens....he lives an aristocratic lifestyle and NEVER MAKES IT BACK TO Jerusalem....where’d all that money go...???!!!???
@@sterlingdafydd5834 have you read the bible? Just by reading your comment, I already know the answer. 1 The money wasn't needed in Jerusalem. People donated anything they could offer (meal, rations, shelter and yes, money) seeing as he mostly preached to the poor. 2 he didn't live a lavish lifestyle like the one you portray. You think eating a poor diet, and having to walk thousands of kilometres a day was a walk in the park? But in the end, it won't matter will it?
Simply not true and inaccurate! Pauls mission, after being a jewish trained scholar, was to take the message of Christianity to the gentiles - the non jewish people and advsnce Christianity through the known world at that time. Pauls entire thesis was based upon the birth, life, ministry, death and resurrection of Christ. He died at the hands of a Roman Sword - decapitated for his belief in the resurrected Christ. The teferences to Christ in the Pauline Letters, representing 13 of the 27 NT Books, are to numerous to mention in this format. You will need to read them to prove this fact.
The simple fact that xianty gained political power in an empire explains a lot in the spread of it. Later it spread by the sword, believe or die. It became a mandate on the pain of death.
Paul created "Christianity" on his own term with his own convictions and norms and directly contradicting Jesus and I personally dont believe that Jesus appeared to Paul and he just lied
No Christianity is already broken. Jesus never told you to call yourselves Christians. Followers of Christ is called Believers and after repentance you receive the Kingdom. Deceivers don’t tell you they are deceiving you. Knowledge helps you not be deceived and those who KNOW. KNOW you are being deceived. Ask God for KNOWLEDGE.
@@firesabers his point was that Jesus never wrote anything down. The reason was Jesus thought the world was about to end so no reason to write anything down
@@lightworker4512 Which Jesus are you talking about? For the Jesus creators that would have presented a complicated problem, pretending to be Jesus and writing books.
Good discussion, thanks. I’ve always assumed Paul was real and did write stuff, but a lot of it has always seemed puzzling to me. Like, on his travels, how did he hear about problems in other places and maintain correspondence back and forth? Without a postal system? Good to hear I’m not alone in wondering.
How did he finance his trips? How did he afford papyrus? And who delivered them, the pony express? How did he have money to rent a house. Why would Rome hire two guards to keep him under house arrest for two years. He was nobody.
Ten year's ago I was reading an article about Paul at that time a lot of biblical scholars were re examining this very issue and concluded that Paul was nonexistent person.
Interesting to note that amongst Jesus' disciples he singles out 12 and names them as apostles. In the final book of the Bible, the Revelation, in chapter 21, it is explicitly stated that Jesus has only 12 apostles. In the Revelation, the writer calls out those who “say they are apostles, and are not” and furthermore commends the Ephesians in that they have “found them liars.” There can be no doubt this refers to Paul and his cohorts. Using the Bible itself you can establish that Paul was a habitual liar and is not to be believed. 1 - After meeting with the Jerusalem Council and receiving specific instructions from the head Messianic leaders, Peter and James, to pass along to his congregants (Acts 15:19-21 and 28-29 and Acts 21:25), Paul lied to the Galatians when he reported the details of that meeting to them and the instructions he had received from the Messianic leaders (Galatians 2:1-10). 2 - When Paul was arrested in the temple during his last visit to Jerusalem, he had to be rescued from the Jews by the Romans. On the following day, the Roman commander allowed Paul to be taken before Ananias the high priest and the Sanhedrin to defend himself from the charges against him. Paul lied to the Sanhedrin when he said “concerning the hope and resurrection of the dead I am being judged.” This had nothing to do with his arrest. The truth of why he was arrested can be found in Acts 21:27-28. 3 - Paul lied to King Agrippa when recounting his conversion experience on the road to Damascus (cf. Acts 9:3-19, 22:6-15, and 26:12-19). There are more. Many more. The fact of the matter is that Paul was a liar and a charlatan.
So the apostle Peter is a liar also then - He referred to the teachings of Brother Paul and totally accepted Paul as an apostle. Wise up and accept the truth of the Bible or perish in your sins.
@@smeatonlighthouse4384 You poor, unlearned soul. You must be referring to 2 Peter as support for your claim. You are obviously unaware that the vast majority of biblical scholars consider 2 Peter as pseudonymous, a forgery, written after Peter’s death. Peter and Paul were at odds with each other, as is plain to see from their undisputed writings. Your ad hominem attacks aside, you are unable to refute my assertions that Paul was a liar. I have proven such. Now you go wrestle with your faith.
I love listening to these guys! Pity that they didn't mention the implausibility of Saul the supposed persecutor of Christians. On whose authority did he do this and why? How come he didn't ever harass the main players, Jesus and his merry men?
Paul is the Archtect and builder of God's church on this earth and he spread the Gospel to the Gentiles. Why do anyone want to give their life for Christ and endure all the suffering and eventually killed and this shows his work is truthful. Like Paul all the disciples were killed and only John died of old age and what does this show the Gospel is the truth and disciples saw the risen Christ and thats why they gave their life to preach the gospel. Jesus confronted Paul and he from then on gave his life for Christ and Paul met Peter and the other disciples and their testimony fortified Paul as the disciples with Jesus for more than 3 years and were eye witnesses to his work and the miracles Jesus preformed thuats how Paul became the greatest Apostle of Jesus. The work of the disciples and Paul who has never seen Jesus and what a wonder he gave his life shows the power and truth of the gospel. Athiest are a group of people easily led by Satan and you come up with fake arguments and lies to support your agendas and I will trust the 12 disciples and Paul for hey gave their life for Christ and were eventually were killed preaching the Gospel. Thomas who doubted the risen Christ when showed the nail pierced scars on Jesus hands and his sides imnediately said MY LORD MY GOD later travelled to India and preached the Gospel and later was killed too by the people there. If the Gospel is false why did the disciples and Apostle Paul and later tens of thousands died for Christ and this shows the Gospel is 100 %, the TRUTH. Will you Atheist give your life to propagate Atheism and the answer is NO and you will only make a video or write books to boost Atheism and will you die for your cause promoting Atheism and definately not and thus stop spreading lies and leave the Christians alone. You think Paul and the disciples are mad and they saw the truth and thats why the diciples and later Paul gave their life to spread the gospel to the ends of the earth. THE HOLY SPRIT HAS LED ME TO WRITE THIS COMMENT SO LEAVE Christianity alone and either repent or go your own ways and don't condemn the disciples and Paul for they gave their life for Christ. In Jesus name Amen
@@mathanmathai I’m a nominal Christian. With that said, I’m not sure dying in the name of religion is necessarily lofty or validates the truth or virtue of the religion you died for. There have been countless people to die in the name of other religions besides Christianity. By your logic, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism and Mormonism are true because someone died for it. Just because those commenters are atheists who won’t die for atheism (most likely won’t) doesn’t therefore invalidate the truth of their beliefs.
@@mathanmathai We would happily leave Christians alone if they would stop trying to dominate everything they come in contact with. If it were not for Christianity's constant efforts toward dominance there would be no need for contention at all. I don't care what you believe. I only care when you get in my face with your evangelism and your attempts at preferential legislation. Just MYOB and we'll be fine.
You said it perfectly. It was a weapon that the Romans created and others saw that it worked! They used it themselves to advance their imperialism. Toda in America: Conservatives vs liberals.
Love Ken Humphries, like Bob Price and Robt Carrier the way he presents his arguments are sound and really appeal to my highly critical and suspicious nature. Great to see him here. Massive fan of your Channel Derek!
I've long doubted the historicity and or historical veracity of Paul and the exploits attributed to him. for instance, here are some of the similarities and parallels between the lives of Paul and Flavius Josephus: Both Paul and Josephus were involved in significant historical events in the first century CE. Paul was a key figure in the early Christian movement, while Josephus was a Jewish priest and historian who was involved in the First Jewish-Roman War. Both Paul and Josephus went through significant transformations in their beliefs and allegiances. Paul, originally a Jewish Pharisee and opponent of Christianity, had a dramatic conversion experience and became one of the most important figures in the early Christian church. Josephus, initially a commander of Jewish forces in Galilee during the First Jewish-Roman War, eventually switched his allegiance to the Roman Empire after he was captured and taken to Rome as a prisoner of war. Both Paul and Josephus were involved in shipwrecks and were taken to Rome as prisoners. Paul was shipwrecked on the island of Malta while on his way to Rome as a prisoner, while Josephus was taken to Rome as a prisoner of war after being captured by the Romans during the First Jewish-Roman War. Both Paul and Josephus were Roman citizens. Paul was a Roman citizen by birth, while Josephus became a Roman citizen through an act of Imperial decree after gaining the favor of the Roman Emperor Vespasian. Both Paul and Josephus had connections to the priesthood. Paul was a Pharisee who would have had a strong connection to the Jewish priesthood, while Josephus was a Jewish priest himself. While there is no clear evidence to suggest that either Paul or Josephus were involved in espionage or covert activities, it is possible that they may have had some familiarity with trade and commerce as a result of their backgrounds and experiences. Paul was from the city of Tarsus, an important center of commerce and trade in the ancient world, while Josephus was involved in the First Jewish-Roman War and may have had some knowledge of trade and commerce as a result of his role as a leader in his community and his interactions with the Roman Empire.
Hate in politics: I am an Australian who lives in Australia: I have witnessed hate going both ways, all ways seeing that we have a multi-party system, and friends and family members split across political lines, turning on each other like rabid dogs. It is just like religion and I have witnessed plenty of snarling and snapping between Christians in that genre.
Jesus said that one would come after him who would claim to speak for him and would lead multitudes into darkness. I've ALWAYS believed that he was warning us of Paul. Paul is so obviously questionable for so many reasons, that I started to look more critically at everything. Now, I'm agnostic.
Jesus didn't always speak truth either. He told the Samaritan women that a time would come that one would not worship on ths mountain or in Jerusalem but in spirit and truth. All throughout the Jewsh scriptures zion is spoken about and it will be the place of worsip.
Yes and he said it to the disciples. It can only be Paul, Paul and the disciples did not get along according to Galatians 2 12 to 14, where Peter in the end wants Gentiles to keep the law. Just like Jesus said that when someone says Jesus is in the desert or anywhere else, we should not believe him. Paul claimed to have met Jesus in the desert according to Acts 😂 Revelation 2 is also about Paul. Paul was rejected by whole Asia in his own words, and Jesus praises these churches for rejecting a false apostle😂😂😂
I think as well that Paul is fictional. I have not seen any evidence that there were Gospel believing Christians in the 50s while Messianiac Jews were fighting Romans.None of his letters refer to this reality
Apostle Paul, like Moses, Abraham and Sarah, never existed. Noah aka Osisrs aka Egyptian Seb is estimated to be five billion years old. The seven churches, of Asia (Fire) are the constellations Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, and Libra. These are also the seven sons of Job (Earth) and the seven days of creation, the seven braids of Samson's hair, the seven locks of Eve's hair, etc., etc.,
Letter of Paul to the Romans, also called Epistle of St. Paul the Apostle to the Romans, abbreviation Romans, sixth book of the New Testament and the longest and doctrinally most significant of St. Paul the Apostle's writings. It was probably composed at Corinth in about 57 ce.
@@ianofliverpool7701 Read Romans 13. Paul talks about obedience. The the rulers are place on Earth by God. That we are to obey them. That only bad people would not want to. There is a Roman propaganda inherent in this message. Very little to do with how Jews in Judea felt.
Interesting how an atheist spirit gives people so much inner satisfaction to go against Christ and Christianity. The big smiles and chuckles is truly amazing demonstrating that these two are feeding of each others spirists- despite the fact thats is all a bunch of confused bits and pieces. So yes: we have a lot of deceivers like Kenneth Coperland ( did i get his name correct- not sure), Mormons, Roman Catholicism, David Copperfield etc. But: does the existence of David Copperfield disprove Paul or Jesus? What kind of argumentation is that? We have deceptive insurance brokers but does that mean there are no honest ones? Then if all the NT is made up why not just harmonize everything? Why take woman as first witnesses of the resurrection? Why embarrasse Peter in it? Why write Paul's dispute with Peter? Your trying to imply its all made up but they wrote this down to embarrasse themselves? Doesn’t make sense. The talk of God creating the world 6000 years ago is also just a fundamentalist view, it doesnt mean it was like that. Even Roman Catholicism is full of BS that we can and should adress ( mary mother of God, Pope etc) but despite the fact that Roman Catholicism is nothing but a huge cult like religion that doesnt mean Jesus didnt exist. Why don't you invite someone who can answer your questions instead on feeding on each others non knowledge?
If there was a Paul that was Saul the persecutor, he would know heaps of Jesus stories mixed with his Hellenistic experience would be a great source of his “visions”
"Even voting for the right is doing nothing for it. It is only expressing to men feebly your desire that it should prevail. A wise man will not leave the right to the mercy of chance, nor wish it to prevail through the power of the majority. There is but little virtue in the action of masses of men." -H. D. Thoreau
Strangely, everyone misses the core teaching of Paul, yet there it is, staring them in the face. All of his doctrinal teachings in Romans takes us back to the promise to Abraham. The deal was simple enough and obvious. Abraham was to have a son named Isaac. The conditions of Isaac’s birth would be the same as other children born throughout history.(Galatians 3:29, 4:28). This birth of promise had nothing to do with Israel and remained in effect after Sinai(Galatians 3:17). There was was no Israel when Isaac was born, so the promise referred to children of many different cultures, prepared to rule on earth(Revelation 5:9-10). In Romans 9:8 we see “in Isaac shall thy seed be called”. Isaac was foreknown, predestined, and called, just like all the other “special children”. Even though the message is plainly and obviously written, it is completely ignored. Probably because it would put all the religions out of business
Not to say.... Paul is sitting in his back yard, waiting for USPS, arriving every 6 months, to reply to 20-40 gatherings around the world, that did not understand them the first time he was there.
If they were trying to make stuff up in the gospels. Then why write crazy stuff like the apostles didn’t recognize Jesus after the resurrection. Why put that in there if it’s a fabrication you know? If it was made up I’d expect it to say “and then the disciples noticed Jesus right away looking renewed or glorious” … idk lol 🤷🏼♂️ If the gospels were copied after each other then why are the woman at the tomb so different in each case? I mean basically there just saying a group of woman was there most likely. And woman would NOT be a good witness in those days. So that’s another thing they shouldn’t add IF it’s fabricated.
There's an old nursery rhyme that goes ' Two little dickie birds, Sitting on a wall, One named Peter, One named Paul. Fly away Peter, Fly away Paul. Come back Peter, Come back Paul.' It's done with hand gestures, I used to do it with my kids. And we talk about 'Robbing Peter to pay Paul,' if we have to juggle bills, pay one this month, wait for the final demand for the other. I wonder if that is where these supposedly innocent sayings actually originated, acknowledging the sea change of a shift in doctrine. According to Wiki at least, it was changed from 'Jack and Gill' in the 19th century. If that is true, then maybe it was closeted Atheists who first spread it, one subversive utterance at a time.
I often sat there and wondered the same thing- "why are these goofy writings called Letters to this or that"- it makes no sense. In 65 AD this former Xian abuser, Saul sees his vision, and starts writing "letters' to these obscure groups claiming he has the only true way to celebrate this "new" religion? How many con-man actually started this nonsense religion?
Saul/Paul was transformed! He claims to have met the living Christ on the road to Damascus. He was an elite Jewish scholar, living in the lifestyle of the jewish religios elite and left it all behind to be a slave, beaten, starved, ship wrecked, jailed and finaly put to death for his beliefs. No sane person(s) does this UNLESS he was utterly convinced of his position. If you take the time to study the historical record, the evidence is overwhelming in support of the factual basis for the clsims made by the faith. Its not perfect - nothing is! We do not have emperical evidence - this is not science however. We have no emperical evidence for ANYTHING IN HISTORY. It cannot be repeated and observed in a controlled environment. Think of it as a legal case - compile the evidence for an against the claims of Christianity, unbiased, and make a deci ssf ion based on the evidence - whetever it may lead you.
@@clmkc5393 ´´He claims to have met the living Christ´´ ´´We do not have empirical evidence´´. Case dismissed! I saw Paul yesterday. I had pitta with falafel and he ate pitta with pulled pork.
@@nandinibandhini There's no Empyrical evidence for anything in history. If that's Your measuring stick then only focus on the present as the past holds nothing but Ferry tails for you. George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Napoleon, Alexander the Great , any of the caesars, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, they never existed because we do not have empirical evidence???
Hi Derek Lambert, you are MOST NEEDED in India, here there’s lot of conversions being carried out by Christian missionaries by lying, telling false stories, lying about miracles…etc. I feel that you would be doing a great service to my countrymen if you could tell the truth and creat a sort of awakening.
@18:42 forward about the general level of gullibility among those who accepted Christianity in the very beginning (both Jewish and heathen), John 7: 48 - 53 describes the Pharisees pointing out that Jesus' followers [aka Christians] were unlettered and ignorant - "cursed".
Can anyone please explain the use of English names Ie Mathew, Mark, Luke , John, Paul (Paulus I suppose) . I realise they must be translated but how and by whom ?
Extract from 'Conspiracy in Jerusalem' by Professor Kamal Salibi. First, why did Paul, having experienced his revelation of Jesus as the Son of God, decide to go at once to Arabia instead of Jerusalem, although he was fully aware that the apostles who had known Jesus were in Jerusalem? Second,why did the book of Acts omit all reference to Paul's Arabian visit, although Paul himself appears to have regarded it as highly important, since he decided to go immediately after his conversion? Third, why does Paul nowhere explain exactly why he went to Arabia-at least nowhere in his available writing? During the time of Paul, Arabia as a geographical term had two different connotations. Roman Arabia started in Damascus- a city which by Paul's own first-hand testimony (and the only one known) was governed by the agent of a King Aretas (Arabic al-Harith) who was Aretas IV (9BC-AD 40), the Nabatean Arab king of Petra whom the Romans recognised as a client. Beyond the Nabatean kingdom , however,the vast peninsula of Arabia stretched all the way south to the Indian Ocean. The Greek geographer, Strabo (d.after AD 23), tells us that the western parts of this peninsula,called today the Hijaz, formed an Arabian kingdom or principality which was tributary to Petra. Further south lay the Yemen, ruled since 115BC by the dynasty of Himyar which was to last until the sixth century AD. Scholars have assumed that the Arabia Paul visited was Roman Arabia-the territory south of Damascus, including modern Jordan. It has been suggested that he went there to meditate or perhaps confer with Christian recluses in the desert; to preach among the local folk; or possibly to revisit the site of his conversion outside Damascus, relive the experience which was still fresh in his mind and ponder its implications. None of these suggestions is really convincing, because none of them explain the urgency with which Paul,according to his own account ,felt compelled to go at once to Arabia. The idea that he was revisiting the site of his conversion can be discounted, for it has already been indicated that Paul's own surviving epistles do not endorse the story of his conversion while travelling from jerusalem to Damascus. From the way he himself speaks of his conversion it appears to have occured inside Damascus, not outside the city. Moreover, being in Damascus, Paul did not have to 'go'- or rather 'go away, depart' ( in the original Greek, aperchomai) - to Arabia, if the region indicated was in fact Roman Arabia. Damascus itself was part of that territory. had his visit been to some other part of Roman Arabia, he would have named the particular place, rather than simply said that he ' went away to Arabia'. Clearly, the voyage which Paul hastened to undertake immediately following his conversion was to a place that lay beyond Roman Arabia, in the peninsula ; probably the Hijaz, or the Yemen.
Some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers also conversed with him. And some said, “What does this babbler wish to say?” Others said, “He seems to be a preacher of foreign divinities” - because he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection. Acts 17:18
In response to your claim that you dont worship "a god" -- we as humans all worship something. Whether it is money, sex, general humanism, science, philosophy, logic, nihilism...we are all run by some kind of "god" figure. That is all semantics though -- more importantly I very much appreciate your channel, and this is coming from one who considers himself a Christian to some degree, even if just in aspiring to walk like him, regardless of if he existed or not. Anyone can use Jesus as an example on how to live a righteous life. I tend to lean more toward the Gnostic side, but recently have been zooming out and doing some good old fashioned "thesis-antithesis-synthesis" work. Still in the "thesis-antithesis" part. Your work has been a big part in that thus far. Much love!
Paul speaking of another gospel was not referring to the other apostles . He said even if an angel preaches another gospel , meaning don’t receive it regardless of who it is coming from .
Excellent scholar. What Paul also does is this. He is "disregarded " in every town he goes to . But he is a "Publicity hound". That is why he keeps mentioning the Jews and attacking their theology. Just to get some attention by causing a stir. The Jews walk away and won't give him the time of day . But he claims they are "arguing theology with him" just to give himself importance.
At 9:40, the guest tells us how paul aparently brushed off the attempted stoning and later got up and continued where he left off, uninjured like nothing had happned. Doesnt sound plausible. First thing that comes to mind is that scene in the blues brothers where Jake and elwoods room is attacked by carrie fisher and her rocket launcher. Their covered in brick and rubble,after falling two storys, dust them selfs off then off to the next gig.
Also, whoever wrote didn't have a freaking clue how they actually stoned people back in those days, they actually buried you up to your waist, and THEN stoned you. So there was no "walking away"- you were 100% dead. All these "gospel" writings are nonsense meant to control the poor masses.
isn't the stoning of Paul not from Acts 14:8-10? And does he mention it is his Epistles? It is about the only realistic element in the whole myth. When a JW, you never knew or met before, comes preaching pedantic at your door , what do you do? In 99% of such cases the door is slammed in the JW's face. Obvious they did not have doors to slam in those days, but they had stones and they did not suffer fools upsetting the marketplace. The stoning sounds real, the rest is make believe. I seriously doubt Paul ever visited the cities mentioned in Acts, when he did visit cities outside Palestine it were probably the cities he wrote the genuine Pauline Epistles to or even more likely while staying in those cities participating of the there ongoing theologic discussions.
The jews made sure that they had their temple guards, guarding the tomb for three whole days. To make sure that the Christians didn't steal his body. To be able to claim that he was the true son of GOD/only way to be able to make it into heaven. If the guards saw real angels roll the stone away, and Jesus come walking out of the tomb alive. Or ascend into heaven. Then there would instantly be all kinds of Roman attestations, and advertisments of different types of soft, and hard evidence acknowledgements to the miracle. It took at least 50-60years before the first book of mark was made about the story tradition. Why's the bible scholars saying that Mark, mathew, luke don't even line up with each other on the facts.
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California tried to ban the 2000 year lie good
So all of what have been said in this video is just speculations?
How is it even possible to continue to find so many different ways that a story can fall apart !
This is the true miracle of it all !
People want to believe in something. Paul was a fake created by a scripture writer.
I started with Kenneth's revelations about Christianity about 25 yrs ago. Great work and scholarly research. Humphrey was an awakening beacon for me CONFIRMED by the following yrs of further research. Kudos for bringing on Kenneth on your show.
Kenneth Humphries was the one who introduced me to the idea that Jesus never existed.
Look up "THE CRUCIFIX FISH - WHAT THE CRUCIFIX FISH REVEALS"
@@brisadelcastillo2840 I did. It's been debunked.
"In that era, the world was awash with charlatans -- or if you prefer, 'Holy Men.'"
Still is
Religion startred when the first con man met the first fool.
@@daleeloph6888
John 18:
35"Am I a Jew?" Pilate replied. "It was your people and your chief priests who handed you over to me. What is it you have done?"36Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."37"You are a king, then!" said Pilate. Jesus answered, "You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."
@@raysalmon6566 What is truth?
@@daleeloph6888
truth is a person
While growing out of Xtianity I originally eschewed the books of Paul and the other letters after Acts and decided that I should focus on the gospels and, after concentrating on them for several years their contradictions and disagreements on timelines and what Jesus said I finally gave up on the entire affair. I had lost most of my original faith in my early 20's when I, as a fundamental literalist found out that Isaiah had three authors. I could never rectify the "literal word of god" claim with the fact that several authors were responsible for the authorship of one book under the name of the original prophet, wrote over a hundred years apart and NO ONE HAD MENTIONED THIS TO ME OR ANYONE I KNEW! The more I looked into it the less likely it seemed to be a representation of truth of any kind, philosophical, spiritual or actual.
You should check out David H'Notsari's channel for truth on the discrepancies between Paul and Jesus and all throughout our "bible" as a whole. He explains with proof texts very well.
Scholars suggest that Isaiah has 3 different authors/parts because the events in Isaiah predict events hundreds of years before they’ve occurred, which doesn’t fit into secular history. It’s merely a hypothesis to make Isaiah congruent with their naturalistic methodology. There is no actual evidence that it has been written in 3 separate parts, and when Isaiah manuscripts/scrolls have been found they’ve only ever found the full Isaiah scroll, never 1/3 of a part.
History and archaeology isn’t a proper science where you can do controlled trials or definitively prove anything. These Biblical scholars and historians use educated speculation, and an assumption of “absence of evidence = no evidence”.
So don’t be so easily deceived and give up the faith, Jesus is real and he loves you so repent.
@@elizabethstockton1996 No thank you, I have all of the information I need to make a decision about the truth of the bible, and from this gentlemans video titles it's obviously another take on the same old book.
@@mytestimonytojesuschrist "Biblical" scholars? No thank you, I've studied enough of those to realize they're trying to make actual history fit into their interpretation of 'biblical' history. The multiple textbooks and treatises I've read on Paul and Isaiah are pretty definitive, especially on Isaiah, as the authorship changes at least twice, not just the verb tenses but the use of language altogether, structure, descriptors, and syntax, and finding 'complete' texts together isn't an indication of singular authorship, just a fairly decent conservation of a copy of the originally combined one. Nevermind the absence of evidence for any diety every claimed, including JHWH, Jeshua or that ghosty uncle, that's another story.
@@mistahbreeze4412 Again, you're wrong. The text has been analyzed via stylometry. Look up Brigham Young University "A Scientific Analysis of Isaiah Scholarship". Running it through authorship attribution software makes it clear that a single author wrote it.
This study has still not been debunked in any form.
There are other peculiarities which point to a single author as well, Josephus in antiquities of the jews wrote about how Cyrus king of persia read about himself in the isaiah scroll.
And there is no mention of idolatry in any other post-exile prophet, yet in Isaiah there is.
I love how Ken never pulls any punches, he calls 'em as 'e sees 'em. I think the character of Paul in Acts is almost entirely fictional, but I think an early church leader wrote the original versions of the letters and had to be rewritten by the later church. In any case, it's always fun to have Ken point out the various absurdities in the astounding rubbish from the NT.
Apostle Paul, like Moses, Abraham and Sarah, never existed. Noah aka Osiris aka Egyptian Seb is estimated to be five billion years old. The seven churches, of Asia (Fire) are the constellations Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, and Libra. These are also the seven sons of Job (Earth) and the seven days of creation, the seven braids of Samson's hair, the seven locks of Eve's hair, etc., etc.,
I have heard that Paul was a rewrite of Apollonius of Tyana. I think it was DM Murdoch who mentioned it. Anyone else heard of it? I’m trying to figure all this out so I can get the facts.
@@danmiller6462
There is a huge mix of Pagan Mythology. The nymph Anobret was the "mother" of the only begotten (loved) son. This son become Isaac and many other second borns (represents summer). The firstborns (winter) are the mean ones who cause all kinds of trouble. Secondborns (summer) are always favored because this is the season of plant growth (survival). Recommend "Hebrew Mythology," by Milton Woolley. He gives a lot of good references.
Gerald McFarlin thanks. I will look it up.
@@harveywabbit9541 hello, this is second time I’ve come across the winter/firstborn and summer/second born, forgive my ignorance, but do you know why the winter was considered first? Like where/when/why was is determined that winter came before summer? Thanks!
Kenneth Humphreys is the guy who got me on the path of learning.
Sorry to disappoint you, it’s nonsense.
@@davethebrahman9870 care to elaborate? Explanation needed - unless you’re just trolling
@@mglenn7092 I posted a few later comments. In essence he ignores most of the evidence.
Everything in the Bible is True Its the Word of God!
IS god Illiterate , he can make worlds but not a pamphlet??? What kind of moron believes this 2000. Years later is so sad....
My significant other always says, "If a person has to tell you to trust them or that they are not lying, don't trust them, they are lying."
Little does he know...his favorite religion is based off a dude that does that a lot :)
Same with covid vaccine
@@Strawhalo lol. I am not that distrusting of it, and I have not even gotten it yet. I can only imagine how someone none trusting of it feels!
Thats a rather silly irrational belief.
Never mind the fact that in Psalms 118:8 it says:
"It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man."
Yet that's exactly what they expect you to do.
Trust the word!
Trust the gospels!
Trust the apostles!
Trust the scripture!
Trust the Book of Romans!
Trust the words of men!
That one verse self-refutes the entire scheme.
I would like to hear Kenneth Humphreys and Dr. Robert Price together talking about the Amazing Colossal Apostle...
🔥🔥🔥
To quote Mutley...."Ye ye ye ye yea yeah"
Really the only 2 deeply questionning the "Paul".
"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
- St. Paul, Romans 16:17-18.
@@c.gerard7293 it's really breathtaking how transparent Paul is once you strip away the lens of sanctity from the text by just reading it as it is.
I'm astounded that you keep bringing all my heros to the table! Brilliant minds, Kenneth Humphrey a true legend in my books of logic!
Why is Paul more famous than the 12 disciples of Jesus and why is Paul being followed by Christians more than Jesus and his chosen disciples ?
Look up "THE CRUCIFIX FISH - WHAT THE CRUCIFIX FISH REVEALS"
Because the Apostles were Gnostic. That’s why all the books attributed to the Apostles are “banned”, except for the forgery of Peter which made it into the NT.
Apostle to the gentiles that's why
Same reason Harry Potter is the centre of attention ...... because its a story you muppet.
He wrote more then them and was used in greater ways than they were. God always uses the weaker person or nation to accomplish the greater tasks, and Paul admitted he was the least among them, yet was used to established the church and revealed the doctrines of grace.
Belief systems are the shackles that we still wear, even though all these Millennia have come and gone. Alas!
I’m 14 minutes in. He makes a very good point. Just like we have religious charlatans and preachers making wild claims and prophecy in modern times, the same was happening back in ancient times. And just as we have gullible people who follow religious nonsense today, there were an abundance of gullible people back then. And just like there were skeptics and critical thinkers back then, so we are today.
Benny Hinn comes to mind. Hal Lindsey also. He's always saying it's this year or that. Their bank account is really fat. Not fooling me.
Life of Brian parodied this excellently 'He is the Messiah, and I should know I've followed a few...'
Thank goodness we aren’t burned at the stake for being a skeptic today😮
Oh yes,many crazy...FOR MONEY
Kenneth is always entertaining. Great show. Thanks.
Paul is the first AntiChrist. In Plain sight, as Jesus gave many warnings to his disciples.
MythVision is cooking on all four burners, good work Derek.
Howard Pruitt yes, I was very happy to see Tovia Singer recently
Thank you Mr Ms vision this is one of your very best shows sometimes I get angry with your guests but this guy's talking common sense thank you for this wonderful programming 👏👏👏👏👏👍😀
Wonderful work Derek. Kenneth Humphrey takes no prisoners.
Derek is a wonderful human being. Thanks for the enlightening discussion. As a Gulf War veteran, I worry about my beloved homeland, the USA. I feel safer living in Southeast Asia where women have their rights to choice, and gay people are genuinely free
Ken is my hero...I wish I could spend a couple hours talking to him like this (and get my JNE book signed)
You're right about loving listening to him speak!💕 But I also loved the content and his sense of humor. Awesome interview!😊
Real Story: Paul got stoned in Perge, had some paranoid dreams, fell over, slept like dead into the next morning, and left.
A proper stoning.
He got some of that Lebanese hash that later became popular in the 1970s.
@@dbarker7794 UMM, blond Lebanese hash, I knew you well. 👍😍
you left out the talking donkey
I am a dedicated fan of your channel. One of the incredible things I've realized as to how much comprehensive and pertinent material you have going back years (such as this episode from 3 years ago). I am fascinated by Paul. I believe that, if the gospels never existed, Christianity as we know it today would be pretty much as it is but if the so-called writings of Paul didn't exist, Christianity, if it took a form at all, would be about as historically significant as the teachings of the Essenes. I’ve always wondered how Paul, within such a short time, could have metamorphized from being a tent-maker with a hobby for persecuting Christians into being the single most influential thinker, theologian, evangelist, and writer in modern history. This episode makes a whole lot of sense. Derek, thank you so much for your years of great content creation.
Its weird how a person who never saw jesus( paul) with his own eyes writes so much about him more than Peter and other people who knew jesus in real life
Hallucinations.
@@nandinibandhini just like Russian collusion.
@@michaeld9682 Good one! :-)
Paul in his Epistles make a few remark about Jesus, but does not go into depth about the historical and bodily existance of Jesus like the Gospels do.
The phenomenum Jesus was important to the writer of the Pauline Epistles, a real man called Jesus wandering around at the time Pilate ruled Judea was not.
what's really weird is when you say to a Christian, Paul never met Jesus, and they start telling you about his divine inspiration.
Great discussion guys. However Ken didn't mention 'astounding rubbish' even once.
I want to just to throw this idea out there: I'm trying to figure out a plausible scenario on how
Christianity became a popular religion before Constantine. I don't think Paul is much of a historical figure
but I wonder if his supposed writings are part of some kind of entertainment package. Paul seems to find himself
at the community theatre many times during his, um, good news stories. So perhaps it's a theatrical performance?
Is he a charlatan or a motivational speaker that charges admission? And Is he 'performing' with his male companions to deliver these messages? And after making his audience feel better, did this novelty grow with fan fiction? Maybe the ancient Greek plays were seen as being too old-timey.
Anyway, keep up the good works Derek and Ken; y'all are great.
herbal gerbil - that's a fascinating thought. I hadn't even thought of this as a possibility. I need to do yet another reading of his 'authentic' epistles, through yet another lens is I think. Thanks.
I suppose you could make up whatever story you wish, if it makes you feel better
@@michaeld9682 Which version of the story do you lean toward?
Me too. Excluding Paul from the picture, how and why did this religion grow? Augustine said Christianity was ancient and existed before Christ. But why suddenly did it get written up, promulgated, and dispersed? The only thing I can think of is the Romans writing it down, codifying it, and using it to pacify the masses because Rome was falling apart.
Derek, what can I say, everyday I sit and watch your channel and find a whole range of emotions, love your Channel so much, I am an ex-Christian and ex-Pastor. I wish when I was in second year Theology, 25 years ago I could have watched your channel or it would have saved many years of my life. Thank you for your channel, it brings peace to my heart, thank you Brother.
Ian
Australia,
It probably wouldn't have saved years of your life. Neurological rewiring of beliefs takes TIME! Some longer than others. Some are completely unable, it seems. Maybe it could have saved you many years, but I'm guessing it is unlikely.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 go and give your pal Ray Comfort a visit
Me too. If I had only had RUclips as a child.
Vespasian was likely Paul in the New Testament since it says in Titus 1:4 that Titus was one of the younger men whom Paul discipled and described as his 'son in the faith that we share'. Paul's character was taken from Saul from the Old Testament.
Ken was the first Atheist I came across who was rude about how ridiculous many aspects of the gospels are!
It's so refreshing to have someone who has researched as much, is as knowledgeable as Ken is just call it out for what it is. The points he makes about how ridiculous things are, really are as plain as could be.
We just normally have 'scholars' circle jerking about 'Christology' and which texts are 'authentic'. Which very much obfuscates the absurdities of these characters having been historical figures.
When given the chance to learn about the actual histories, cultures and people of the time, without trying to shoehorn silliness into history, makes the myriad mistakes very easy to spot.
Great interview! I was slightly surprised not to hear Ken mention what he has on his website (maybe there is later stuff I've missed): the epistles of "Paul" were first "found" by Marcion (floruit 2nd C) and "fortuitously" supported Marcion's position against the burgeoning mainstream Catholicism. He had some gnostic ideas about the OT god being a mean bastard who made the material world and was subordinate to the rather nicer NT god. If wikipedia is right: I am too lazy to do more research into something like that.
I suppose we are stuck with having nothing that is contemporary to what is alleged to have happened: all surviving manuscripts are copies of copies of copies of... of documents dating to years, decades or centuries after the alleged events, and it's a real puzzle to work out what was originally intended. Which is fun! :-D
[Edit] Oh, and someone (possibly Ken - my memory is not what I hope it once was) pointed out the similarity of Paul's journey to the travels of Odysseus, which suggests literary inspiration rather than historical recollection.
Marcion of Sinope was introduced to me in a book written by Rodney Stark.
Stark makes a strong point about spreading of religion through family ties of direct relations and pointing out how small Christianity was in the 2nd century. ( not even 0,5% of the population against 5% of the population being Jews in Diaspora)
But more important was his point that Christanity kept a very Jewish character till early 4th century.
It was going to the grain of Jewishism that got Marcion in troubled waters and indeed breaking with ancient Jewish tradition and restriction is one of Paul's themes, maybe therefor Marcion favoured those writings above other more tradional ones. I think "mainstream Catholicism" became an issue only after Constantine even more after it became a state religion. In the first 3 centuries christiany was too small and diverse to speak of mainstream Catholicism.
Marcion: "Hey look, guys. I found these letters of Matthew Mark Luke. And Paul."
Surely, Rome had some kind of system for moving mail for private citizens. Traders could have carried letters for a price. Epistles existed. That's not an argument against Paul's existence. The argument that one guy could have done it does weigh more against his actual existence.
I am not so sure they existed as posted, or carried, letters. We dont have the originals. And why copy the letters ?
But he was sending letters to churches he had not established yet. LOL
The word is out! "Conmen". Its rarely used, but its really the basis of it all. Probably a few locos in the melee too, but the crafty conmen at the helm. Selling hope in a very harsh world.
Right. As a former mormon I see hiw Joseph Smith copied Paul in creating a new religion himself. He as a known conman, he and his dad practiced magic and tricked people into treasure hunting without they ever finding any treasure. His real treasure was conning people by claiming he saw yahweh and Jesus in a vision and they told him to form mormonism. Joseph Smith is somehow more important for many mormons than Jesus.
@@Mizzlenum Bravo for freeing yourself!
They often talk about Hellenistic elements in the gospels, but isn't there a lot of Ulysses in Paul, with his odyssey and his shipwreck on Malta. He is like a Christian Ulysses.
Where the rubber meets the road, Christians helped me to leave home forty years ago, putting me up for free for nine months until I could get a job and live on my own. I owed them a lot, but couldn't be a Christian, because Divine Intervention and natural law are incompatible. So I tried to figure out how to build a bridge with them. It took a virtual library's worth of books about Jesus and the Bible and having a light go off in my head five years ago for this to be finally resolved. What I had overlooked was that Paul has nothing to say about Jesus' life in his letters. That's extremely dishonorable if you want to claim to be a follower of Jesus. So I realized that all Christians must agree that his life mattered and that he was worth following--"imitating". He had his own agenda and goals he was pursuing, after all (assuming that he really existed, which is an open question to me). This life matters--so much, that there's really no time to think about another life while living this one. And that's as it should be.
Paul was the first televangelist....he went around (allegedly) collecting MONEY to take back to Jerusalem in order to make sacrifices in the Temple on behalf of the heathens....he lives an aristocratic lifestyle and NEVER MAKES IT BACK TO Jerusalem....where’d all that money go...???!!!???
@@sterlingdafydd5834 You cant take what you read there in the same vein as an established and respected news outlet. 🙂
@@sterlingdafydd5834 I meant "report", rather than "outlet".
@@sterlingdafydd5834 have you read the bible? Just by reading your comment, I already know the answer.
1 The money wasn't needed in Jerusalem. People donated anything they could offer (meal, rations, shelter and yes, money) seeing as he mostly preached to the poor.
2 he didn't live a lavish lifestyle like the one you portray. You think eating a poor diet, and having to walk thousands of kilometres a day was a walk in the park?
But in the end, it won't matter will it?
Simply not true and inaccurate! Pauls mission, after being a jewish trained scholar, was to take the message of Christianity to the gentiles - the non jewish people and advsnce Christianity through the known world at that time. Pauls entire thesis was based upon the birth, life, ministry, death and resurrection of Christ. He died at the hands of a Roman Sword - decapitated for his belief in the resurrected Christ. The teferences to Christ in the Pauline Letters, representing 13 of the 27 NT Books, are to numerous to mention in this format. You will need to read them to prove this fact.
Ken is a breath of fresh air. Great stuff indeed.
The simple fact that xianty gained political power in an empire explains a lot in the spread of it. Later it spread by the sword, believe or die. It became a mandate on the pain of death.
Without Paul - Christianity wouldn’t be so “broken”... I enjoy watching it continually breaking into tiny little pieces.
Paul created "Christianity" on his own term with his own convictions and norms and directly contradicting Jesus and I personally dont believe that Jesus appeared to Paul and he just lied
No Christianity is already broken.
Jesus never told you to call yourselves Christians.
Followers of Christ is called Believers and after repentance you receive the Kingdom.
Deceivers don’t tell you they are deceiving you. Knowledge helps you not be deceived and those who KNOW. KNOW you are being deceived.
Ask God for KNOWLEDGE.
What a fantastic and important program. Thank you for making it.
Paul paid attention to one important detail that Jesus appears to have missed. He actually wrote down what he expected people to believe.
Eh.... Most of the writing in that time period was allegory. It's hard to accept without scrutiny that its what he actually believed.
@@firesabers his point was that Jesus never wrote anything down. The reason was Jesus thought the world was about to end so no reason to write anything down
Not sure Paul existed. Marcion maybe?
@@lightworker4512 Which Jesus are you talking about? For the Jesus creators that would have presented a complicated problem, pretending to be Jesus and writing books.
@@Doriesep6622 Jesus of the NT
My fivorite epistle by Paul is Let it Be
Maybe I’m amazed at your choice!
Good discussion, thanks. I’ve always assumed Paul was real and did write stuff, but a lot of it has always seemed puzzling to me. Like, on his travels, how did he hear about problems in other places and maintain correspondence back and forth? Without a postal system? Good to hear I’m not alone in wondering.
How did he finance his trips? How did he afford papyrus? And who delivered them, the pony express? How did he have money to rent a house. Why would Rome hire two guards to keep him under house arrest for two years. He was nobody.
Ten year's ago I was reading an article about Paul at that time a lot of biblical scholars were re examining this very issue and concluded that Paul was nonexistent person.
Dam!
I’m going to do like Paul, change my name and declare myself a self appointed apostle.
Just make sure you do it on tik-tok so people will know.
@Bret Zajac I’m pretty sure I hit the nail on the head, maybe you need to read more.
@Bret Zajac I believe you think you know, but you do not know.
Make sure you create a YT channel as well! And Patreon so we get the extra stuff.
Dont forget to make your dream meeting the fiction jesus look convincing!
I will be the first to promote and back you up!
Interesting to note that amongst Jesus' disciples he singles out 12 and names them as apostles. In the final book of the Bible, the Revelation, in chapter 21, it is explicitly stated that Jesus has only 12 apostles. In the Revelation, the writer calls out those who “say they are apostles, and are not” and furthermore commends the Ephesians in that they have “found them liars.” There can be no doubt this refers to Paul and his cohorts. Using the Bible itself you can establish that Paul was a habitual liar and is not to be believed. 1 - After meeting with the Jerusalem Council and receiving specific instructions from the head Messianic leaders, Peter and James, to pass along to his congregants (Acts 15:19-21 and 28-29 and Acts 21:25), Paul lied to the Galatians when he reported the details of that meeting to them and the instructions he had received from the Messianic leaders (Galatians 2:1-10). 2 - When Paul was arrested in the temple during his last visit to Jerusalem, he had to be rescued from the Jews by the Romans. On the following day, the Roman commander allowed Paul to be taken before Ananias the high priest and the Sanhedrin to defend himself from the charges against him. Paul lied to the Sanhedrin when he said “concerning the hope and resurrection of the dead I am being judged.” This had nothing to do with his arrest. The truth of why he was arrested can be found in Acts 21:27-28. 3 - Paul lied to King Agrippa when recounting his conversion experience on the road to Damascus (cf. Acts 9:3-19, 22:6-15, and 26:12-19). There are more. Many more. The fact of the matter is that Paul was a liar and a charlatan.
So the apostle Peter is a liar also then - He referred to the teachings of Brother Paul and totally accepted Paul as an apostle. Wise up and accept the truth of the Bible or perish in your sins.
@@smeatonlighthouse4384 You poor, unlearned soul. You must be referring to 2 Peter as support for your claim. You are obviously unaware that the vast majority of biblical scholars consider 2 Peter as pseudonymous, a forgery, written after Peter’s death. Peter and Paul were at odds with each other, as is plain to see from their undisputed writings. Your ad hominem attacks aside, you are unable to refute my assertions that Paul was a liar. I have proven such. Now you go wrestle with your faith.
Characters who do not exist cannot lie.
@@spaceghost8995 The only problem with that statement is that you cannot be certain of it. He may very well have existed.
I love listening to these guys! Pity that they didn't mention the implausibility of Saul the supposed persecutor of Christians. On whose authority did he do this and why? How come he didn't ever harass the main players, Jesus and his merry men?
Question doesn't arise because The man named Paul or Apostle Paul never existed.
Paul is the Archtect and builder of God's church on this earth and he spread the Gospel to the Gentiles. Why do anyone want to give their life for Christ and endure all the suffering and eventually killed and this shows his work is truthful. Like Paul all the disciples were killed and only John died of old age and what does this show the Gospel is the truth and disciples saw the risen Christ and thats why they gave their life to preach the gospel. Jesus confronted Paul and he from then on gave his life for Christ and Paul met Peter and the other disciples and their testimony fortified Paul as the disciples with Jesus for more than 3 years and were eye witnesses to his work and the miracles Jesus preformed thuats how Paul became the greatest Apostle of Jesus. The work of the disciples and Paul who has never seen Jesus and what a wonder he gave his life shows the power and truth of the gospel.
Athiest are a group of people easily led by Satan and you come up with fake arguments and lies to support your agendas and I will trust the 12 disciples and Paul for hey gave their life for Christ and were eventually were killed preaching the Gospel. Thomas who doubted the risen Christ when showed the nail pierced scars on Jesus hands and his sides imnediately said MY LORD MY GOD later travelled to India and preached the Gospel and later was killed too by the people there. If the Gospel is false why did the disciples and Apostle Paul and later tens of thousands died for Christ and this shows the Gospel is 100 %, the TRUTH.
Will you Atheist give your life to propagate Atheism and the answer is NO and you will only make a video or write books to boost Atheism and will you die for your cause promoting Atheism and definately not and thus stop spreading lies and leave the Christians alone.
You think Paul and the disciples are mad and they saw the truth and thats why the diciples and later Paul gave their life to spread the gospel to the ends of the earth. THE HOLY SPRIT HAS LED ME TO WRITE THIS COMMENT SO LEAVE Christianity alone and either repent or go your own ways and don't condemn the disciples and Paul for they gave their life for Christ. In Jesus name Amen
@@mathanmathai I’m a nominal Christian. With that said, I’m not sure dying in the name of religion is necessarily lofty or validates the truth or virtue of the religion you died for. There have been countless people to die in the name of other religions besides Christianity. By your logic, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism and Mormonism are true because someone died for it. Just because those commenters are atheists who won’t die for atheism (most likely won’t) doesn’t therefore invalidate the truth of their beliefs.
@@mathanmathai We would happily leave Christians alone if they would stop trying to dominate everything they come in contact with. If it were not for Christianity's constant efforts toward dominance there would be no need for contention at all. I don't care what you believe. I only care when you get in my face with your evangelism and your attempts at preferential legislation. Just MYOB and we'll be fine.
@@mathanmathai By your comment you seem to be befuddled.
"Paul had to be beaucoup rich." He was a 1st-century televangelist. Probably had his own private jet.
Maybe not so wealthy but FAMOUS for sure! Even to this day.
❤❤❤
The purpose of politics and religion is to keep the people divided.
You said it perfectly. It was a weapon that the Romans created and others saw that it worked! They used it themselves to advance their imperialism. Toda in America:
Conservatives vs liberals.
Love Ken Humphries, like Bob Price and Robt Carrier the way he presents his arguments are sound and really appeal to my highly critical and suspicious nature. Great to see him here. Massive fan of your Channel Derek!
I've long doubted the historicity and or historical veracity of Paul and the exploits attributed to him.
for instance, here are some of the similarities and parallels between the lives of Paul and Flavius Josephus:
Both Paul and Josephus were involved in significant historical events in the first century CE. Paul was a key figure in the early Christian movement, while Josephus was a Jewish priest and historian who was involved in the First Jewish-Roman War.
Both Paul and Josephus went through significant transformations in their beliefs and allegiances. Paul, originally a Jewish Pharisee and opponent of Christianity, had a dramatic conversion experience and became one of the most important figures in the early Christian church. Josephus, initially a commander of Jewish forces in Galilee during the First Jewish-Roman War, eventually switched his allegiance to the Roman Empire after he was captured and taken to Rome as a prisoner of war.
Both Paul and Josephus were involved in shipwrecks and were taken to Rome as prisoners. Paul was shipwrecked on the island of Malta while on his way to Rome as a prisoner, while Josephus was taken to Rome as a prisoner of war after being captured by the Romans during the First Jewish-Roman War.
Both Paul and Josephus were Roman citizens. Paul was a Roman citizen by birth, while Josephus became a Roman citizen through an act of Imperial decree after gaining the favor of the Roman Emperor Vespasian.
Both Paul and Josephus had connections to the priesthood. Paul was a Pharisee who would have had a strong connection to the Jewish priesthood, while Josephus was a Jewish priest himself.
While there is no clear evidence to suggest that either Paul or Josephus were involved in espionage or covert activities, it is possible that they may have had some familiarity with trade and commerce as a result of their backgrounds and experiences. Paul was from the city of Tarsus, an important center of commerce and trade in the ancient world, while Josephus was involved in the First Jewish-Roman War and may have had some knowledge of trade and commerce as a result of his role as a leader in his community and his interactions with the Roman Empire.
Please spread the good news, let each and every one know the lie about Apostle Paul, excellent explanation and work.
Self proclaimed "Apostle " lol
Thank God for the apostle Paul, God's chosen vessel to the gentiles. WHAT a beautiful story of God's grace and sovereignty in salvation
Yes! 👏👏👏
Understanding this was the beginning of my leaving religiosity.😃
In kingdom times gods kept humans going. It must have been so much harder for “nobodies” to have hope.
Hate in politics: I am an Australian who lives in Australia: I have witnessed hate going both ways, all ways seeing that we have a multi-party system, and friends and family members split across political lines, turning on each other like rabid dogs. It is just like religion and I have witnessed plenty of snarling and snapping between Christians in that genre.
Constantine's mom was a Christian convert. Never underestimate the influence of a mother upon her son.
I hope you write a book Derrick. Much love, great show.
Jesus said that one would come after him who would claim to speak for him and would lead multitudes into darkness. I've ALWAYS believed that he was warning us of Paul. Paul is so obviously questionable for so many reasons, that I started to look more critically at everything. Now, I'm agnostic.
Called the antichrist not paul. You are so mislead
Jesus didn't always speak truth either. He told the Samaritan women that a time would come that one would not worship on ths mountain or in Jerusalem but in spirit and truth. All throughout the Jewsh scriptures zion is spoken about and it will be the place of worsip.
Muhammad
@@debbie189 Yeshua said many would come in his name, not just the antichrist. MATT 24:5
Yes and he said it to the disciples. It can only be Paul, Paul and the disciples did not get along according to Galatians 2 12 to 14, where Peter in the end wants Gentiles to keep the law. Just like Jesus said that when someone says Jesus is in the desert or anywhere else, we should not believe him. Paul claimed to have met Jesus in the desert according to Acts 😂 Revelation 2 is also about Paul. Paul was rejected by whole Asia in his own words, and Jesus praises these churches for rejecting a false apostle😂😂😂
I think as well that Paul is fictional. I have not seen any evidence that there were Gospel believing Christians in the 50s while Messianiac Jews were fighting Romans.None of his letters refer to this reality
Apostle Paul, like Moses, Abraham and Sarah, never existed. Noah aka Osisrs aka Egyptian Seb is estimated to be five billion years old. The seven churches, of Asia (Fire) are the constellations Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, Leo, Virgo, and Libra. These are also the seven sons of Job (Earth) and the seven days of creation, the seven braids of Samson's hair, the seven locks of Eve's hair, etc., etc.,
Letter of Paul to the Romans, also called Epistle of St. Paul the Apostle to the Romans, abbreviation Romans, sixth book of the New Testament and the longest and doctrinally most significant of St. Paul the Apostle's writings. It was probably composed at Corinth in about 57 ce.
@@ianofliverpool7701 Read Romans 13. Paul talks about obedience. The the rulers are place on Earth by God. That we are to obey them. That only bad people would not want to.
There is a Roman propaganda inherent in this message. Very little to do with how Jews in Judea felt.
@@harveywabbit9541 hahahahaha 😆rubbish
@@thebritishbookworm2649
I've finally gotten Harvey to cite his sources this year. Unfortunately its a book from the 1800s.
Interesting how an atheist spirit gives people so much inner satisfaction to go against Christ and Christianity. The big smiles and chuckles is truly amazing demonstrating that these two are feeding of each others spirists- despite the fact thats is all a bunch of confused bits and pieces. So yes: we have a lot of deceivers like Kenneth Coperland ( did i get his name correct- not sure), Mormons, Roman Catholicism, David Copperfield etc. But: does the existence of David Copperfield disprove Paul or Jesus? What kind of argumentation is that? We have deceptive insurance brokers but does that mean there are no honest ones?
Then if all the NT is made up why not just harmonize everything? Why take woman as first witnesses of the resurrection? Why embarrasse Peter in it? Why write Paul's dispute with Peter? Your trying to imply its all made up but they wrote this down to embarrasse themselves? Doesn’t make sense. The talk of God creating the world 6000 years ago is also just a fundamentalist view, it doesnt mean it was like that. Even Roman Catholicism is full of BS that we can and should adress ( mary mother of God, Pope etc) but despite the fact that Roman Catholicism is nothing but a huge cult like religion that doesnt mean Jesus didnt exist. Why don't you invite someone who can answer your questions instead on feeding on each others non knowledge?
If there was a Paul that was Saul the persecutor, he would know heaps of Jesus stories mixed with his Hellenistic experience would be a great source of his “visions”
Is there a Spanish Versión (Copy) of the Jesus Never Existed Book?
Ken is too funny. I love how he calls Paul's letters, torturous theology lol. They sure do torture me while reading them 😆
For some reason, I have always rejected the so visions and teachings of Paul. I believe he twisted the teachings of Christ for his own personal gain.
The most systematic dismantling of the Pauline myth is in"Hyam Maccoby- The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity.
Awesome guest and good interview. Good job guys.
I wish you'd have Ken on more to MYP. I love his RUclips Channel and have watched many of his videos. So much stuff of his, has really opened my eyes.
Love the way Ken expresses himself. . Kind of like the Danny Dyer approach to reseach. Straight from the East Enders corner of religious research.
So glad for the introduction! Great content.
OMFNEG YA GOT KEN AGAIN !!! AT LAST, "MORE ASTOUNDING RUBBISH !!!" DEREK U FKN LEGEND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL. WE MISSED YA KEN !!!!
Paul Nolan yes, I never get enough of ken’s work
@@JerryPenna Indeed Jerry indeed
I second that!
that always makes me laugh, but makes me sad because it means the talk is over.
Very enlightening talk! 👍
If you want the truth, read the book "The Lost Shipwreck of Paul" by Robert Cornuke.
"Even voting for the right is doing nothing for it. It is only expressing to men feebly your desire that it should prevail. A wise man will not leave the right to the mercy of chance, nor wish it to prevail through the power of the majority. There is but little virtue in the action of masses of men."
-H. D. Thoreau
Strangely, everyone misses the core teaching of Paul, yet there it is, staring them in the face. All of his doctrinal teachings in Romans takes us back to the promise to Abraham. The deal was simple enough and obvious. Abraham was to have a son named Isaac. The conditions of Isaac’s birth would be the same as other children born throughout history.(Galatians 3:29, 4:28).
This birth of promise had nothing to do with Israel and remained in effect after Sinai(Galatians 3:17). There was was no Israel when Isaac was born, so the promise referred to children of many different cultures, prepared to rule on earth(Revelation 5:9-10).
In Romans 9:8 we see “in Isaac shall thy seed be called”.
Isaac was foreknown, predestined, and called, just like all the other “special children”.
Even though the message is plainly and obviously written, it is completely ignored. Probably because it would put all the religions out of business
Love the interviews you have, great guests! Love the podcast!
I wish that I had found this sooner. My distaste/distrust of Paul started when I was 10 years old 😬
Not to say.... Paul is sitting in his back yard, waiting for USPS, arriving every 6 months, to reply to 20-40 gatherings around the world, that did not understand them the first time he was there.
If they were trying to make stuff up in the gospels. Then why write crazy stuff like the apostles didn’t recognize Jesus after the resurrection. Why put that in there if it’s a fabrication you know?
If it was made up I’d expect it to say “and then the disciples noticed Jesus right away looking renewed or glorious” … idk lol 🤷🏼♂️
If the gospels were copied after each other then why are the woman at the tomb so different in each case? I mean basically there just saying a group of woman was there most likely. And woman would NOT be a good witness in those days. So that’s another thing they shouldn’t add IF it’s fabricated.
There's an old nursery rhyme that goes ' Two little dickie birds, Sitting on a wall, One named Peter, One named Paul. Fly away Peter, Fly away Paul. Come back Peter, Come back Paul.' It's done with hand gestures, I used to do it with my kids. And we talk about 'Robbing Peter to pay Paul,' if we have to juggle bills, pay one this month, wait for the final demand for the other. I wonder if that is where these supposedly innocent sayings actually originated, acknowledging the sea change of a shift in doctrine. According to Wiki at least, it was changed from 'Jack and Gill' in the 19th century. If that is true, then maybe it was closeted Atheists who first spread it, one subversive utterance at a time.
Christ saves from the cross of sin and death
I often sat there and wondered the same thing- "why are these goofy writings called Letters to this or that"- it makes no sense. In 65 AD this former Xian abuser, Saul sees his vision, and starts writing "letters' to these obscure groups claiming he has the only true way to celebrate this "new" religion? How many con-man actually started this nonsense religion?
Mohammed, Joseph Smith and many more...unfortunately.
Saul/Paul was transformed! He claims to have met the living Christ on the road to Damascus. He was an elite Jewish scholar, living in the lifestyle of the jewish religios elite and left it all behind to be a slave, beaten, starved, ship wrecked, jailed and finaly put to death for his beliefs. No sane person(s) does this UNLESS he was utterly convinced of his position. If you take the time to study the historical record, the evidence is overwhelming in support of the factual basis for the clsims made by the faith. Its not perfect - nothing is! We do not have emperical evidence - this is not science however. We have no emperical evidence for ANYTHING IN HISTORY. It cannot be repeated and observed in a controlled environment. Think of it as a legal case - compile the evidence for an against the claims of Christianity, unbiased, and make a deci ssf ion based on the evidence - whetever it may lead you.
@@clmkc5393 ´´He claims to have met the living Christ´´ ´´We do not have empirical evidence´´. Case dismissed! I saw Paul yesterday. I had pitta with falafel and he ate pitta with pulled pork.
@@nandinibandhini There's no Empyrical evidence for anything in history. If that's Your measuring stick then only focus on the present as the past holds nothing but Ferry tails for you. George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Napoleon, Alexander the Great , any of the caesars, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, they never existed because we do not have empirical evidence???
?
What's so strange about writing letters?
Hi Derek Lambert, you are MOST NEEDED in India, here there’s lot of conversions being carried out by Christian missionaries by lying, telling false stories, lying about miracles…etc. I feel that you would be doing a great service to my countrymen if you could tell the truth and creat a sort of awakening.
I have no time for this. Paul is my most hated con man of the unholy book. Mostly because he fooled so many people.
@18:42 forward about the general level of gullibility among those who accepted Christianity in the very beginning (both Jewish and heathen), John 7: 48 - 53 describes the Pharisees pointing out that Jesus' followers [aka Christians] were unlettered and ignorant - "cursed".
Thanks! This is a high quality podcast 😃
Thank you again my friend. I sincerely appreciate your superthanks and compliments.
Can anyone please explain the use of English names Ie Mathew, Mark, Luke , John, Paul (Paulus I suppose) . I realise they must be translated but how and by whom ?
this channel is heavily undersubscribed . Spread the good news folks. Thanks derek and ken.
Extract from 'Conspiracy in Jerusalem' by Professor Kamal Salibi.
First, why did Paul, having experienced his revelation of Jesus as the Son of God, decide to go at once to Arabia instead of Jerusalem, although he was fully aware that the apostles who had known Jesus were in Jerusalem? Second,why did the book of Acts omit all reference to Paul's Arabian visit, although Paul himself appears to have regarded it as highly important, since he decided to go immediately after his conversion? Third, why does Paul nowhere explain exactly why he went to Arabia-at least nowhere in his available writing?
During the time of Paul, Arabia as a geographical term had two different connotations. Roman Arabia started in Damascus- a city which by Paul's own first-hand testimony (and the only one known) was governed by the agent of a King Aretas (Arabic al-Harith) who was Aretas IV (9BC-AD 40), the Nabatean Arab king of Petra whom the Romans recognised as a client. Beyond the Nabatean kingdom , however,the vast peninsula of Arabia stretched all the way south to the Indian Ocean. The Greek geographer, Strabo (d.after AD 23), tells us that the western parts of this peninsula,called today the Hijaz, formed an Arabian kingdom or principality which was tributary to Petra. Further south lay the Yemen, ruled since 115BC by the dynasty of Himyar which was to last until the sixth century AD.
Scholars have assumed that the Arabia Paul visited was Roman Arabia-the territory south of Damascus, including modern Jordan. It has been suggested that he went there to meditate or perhaps confer with Christian recluses in the desert; to preach among the local folk; or possibly to revisit the site of his conversion outside Damascus, relive the experience which was still fresh in his mind and ponder its implications. None of these suggestions is really convincing, because none of them explain the urgency with which Paul,according to his own account ,felt compelled to go at once to Arabia. The idea that he was revisiting the site of his conversion can be discounted, for it has already been indicated that Paul's own surviving epistles do not endorse the story of his conversion while travelling from jerusalem to Damascus. From the way he himself speaks of his conversion it appears to have occured inside Damascus, not outside the city. Moreover, being in Damascus, Paul did not have to 'go'- or rather 'go away, depart' ( in the original Greek, aperchomai) - to Arabia, if the region indicated was in fact Roman Arabia. Damascus itself was part of that territory. had his visit been to some other part of Roman Arabia, he would have named the particular place, rather than simply said that he ' went away to Arabia'.
Clearly, the voyage which Paul hastened to undertake immediately following his conversion was to a place that lay beyond Roman Arabia, in the peninsula ; probably the Hijaz, or the Yemen.
Great show. Love Ken.
Some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers also conversed with him. And some said, “What does this babbler wish to say?” Others said, “He seems to be a preacher of foreign divinities” - because he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection.
Acts 17:18
Avoid the FALSE Teachings of Paul.....
In response to your claim that you dont worship "a god" -- we as humans all worship something. Whether it is money, sex, general humanism, science, philosophy, logic, nihilism...we are all run by some kind of "god" figure.
That is all semantics though -- more importantly I very much appreciate your channel, and this is coming from one who considers himself a Christian to some degree, even if just in aspiring to walk like him, regardless of if he existed or not. Anyone can use Jesus as an example on how to live a righteous life. I tend to lean more toward the Gnostic side, but recently have been zooming out and doing some good old fashioned "thesis-antithesis-synthesis" work. Still in the "thesis-antithesis" part. Your work has been a big part in that thus far.
Much love!
i say this all the time paul used to be a roman named saul and he didn't exist.
Paul speaking of another gospel was not referring to the other apostles . He said even if an angel preaches another gospel , meaning don’t receive it regardless of who it is coming from .
It’s all allegory! The stories are recycled from earlier times.
Excellent scholar. What Paul also does is this. He is "disregarded " in every town he goes to . But he is a
"Publicity hound". That is why he keeps mentioning the Jews and attacking their theology. Just to get some attention by causing a stir. The Jews walk away and won't give him the time of day . But he claims they are "arguing theology with him" just to give himself importance.
Your on the right tract with Ken Mr Lambert
Trust Kenneth to tell it as it is. I love his blend of fast talking plain common sense and humour
At 9:40, the guest tells us how paul aparently brushed off the attempted stoning and later got up and continued where he left off, uninjured like nothing had happned. Doesnt sound plausible. First thing that comes to mind is that scene in the blues brothers where Jake and elwoods room is attacked by carrie fisher and her rocket launcher. Their covered in brick and rubble,after falling two storys, dust them selfs off then off to the next gig.
Also, whoever wrote didn't have a freaking clue how they actually stoned people back in those days, they actually buried you up to your waist, and THEN stoned you. So there was no "walking away"- you were 100% dead. All these "gospel" writings are nonsense meant to control the poor masses.
On a mission from Gahd.
isn't the stoning of Paul not from Acts 14:8-10? And does he mention it is his Epistles?
It is about the only realistic element in the whole myth.
When a JW, you never knew or met before, comes preaching pedantic at your door , what do you do? In 99% of such cases the door is slammed in the JW's face.
Obvious they did not have doors to slam in those days, but they had stones and they did not suffer fools upsetting the marketplace.
The stoning sounds real, the rest is make believe. I seriously doubt Paul ever visited the cities mentioned in Acts, when he did visit cities outside Palestine it were probably the cities he wrote the genuine Pauline Epistles to or even more likely while staying in those cities participating of the there ongoing theologic discussions.
The cookie, the cracker 😂😂😂😂😂
Joseph Smith and Paul
The jews made sure that they had their temple guards, guarding the tomb for three whole days. To make sure that the Christians didn't steal his body. To be able to claim that he was the true son of GOD/only way to be able to make it into heaven. If the guards saw real angels roll the stone away, and Jesus come walking out of the tomb alive. Or ascend into heaven. Then there would instantly be all kinds of Roman attestations, and advertisments of different types of soft, and hard evidence acknowledgements to the miracle. It took at least 50-60years before the first book of mark was made about the story tradition. Why's the bible scholars saying that Mark, mathew, luke don't even line up with each other on the facts.