The thing i hate the most about this game is that they gave almost EVERYONE some sort of forced 50/50 stance mixup. It feels like my wins are meaningless because all i have to do is get to the forced mixup and hope they guess wrong every time. Kishin Nina and Devil Jin player btw
The skill is in getting yourself into those strong mixup situations as well as trying to avoid being on the receiving end of them. And it's not about "hoping" people guess wrong, you should be making reads based on what your opponent has shown you/what you think they'll do, and then it's about choosing an option that best capitalises on the option you predict from your opponent.
@@burni988 that's not fun tho, Tekken has never been about constant aggression with stance mixups off of every move. The fact you have to play like that to win is just really not fun
@@monkeplaysgames7049 I mean that's personal preference but I really enjoy making the hard reads and I enjoy how this game frequently allows you to make highly rewarding plays despite you technically being in the disadvantaged situation. And I also enjoy enforcing offense. Obviously it's risky to go for those options but that's why for me it feels so satisfying when you predict right, because you know it was a risk but there is a strong reward when it works out. I also think the way the game encourages interactions so much is really cool because it allows you to actually see the mind game evolve as a match goes on because there's so many decisions that have to keep being made. And you can feel that when you play as well, when you show that you can deal with someone's intial/more basic mixup it forces them to start adding in extra things but those things often make it more risky for your opponent which gives you another opportunity to beat them out if you choose your moment correctly.
You cant have heat dash, heat smash, power crushes, rage arts, increased damage during rage, juggling, wall smash attacks, guard breaks, and heat engagers all in the game. That ridiculous for any fighting game let alone a game like tekken. Thats not even including ridiculous moves by certain characters. And chip damage!
The more I play the more I see how all this mechanics are tied trough specific time frames, and become kind of predictable and baitable (heat stuff and rage art). This said heat NEEDS a tone down😅 😅
I am ok with simplifying things to lower the skill floor. However the skill ceiling and character expression must remain intact. For example, keeping the true DSS cancel routes as having blue sparks or higher damage vs the simple route being viable but less damaging
agreed everything is so homogenized in todays gaming. i main shaheen and shaheen is locked behind his while standing 3 loops i can tell whose playing based off how they play aka sephiblack vs ak but even with my own character everything feels so similar.
Having low-execution characters is fine, you just shouldn't get as much reward for the amount of work required to play them. High execution characters should always be strong, where low execution characters should generally be a bit weaker.
I feel like lars is misunderstood in the community.He's easy to learn but hard to master because of his fake pressure and he's more dependent deception.Hes a character with a low skill floor but high skill ceiling which is why you'll never see him in tournaments because most of his options into sen can be mid checked or even worse launched
What they did to Law is especially sad. DSS transitions used to be so demanding and so many players spent a long time mastering them, only for that legacy skill to be made obsolete in T8 with even red rank noobs knowing to just hold forward for DSS. I honestly think if Mishima wavedashing was discovered today Bamco would’ve patched it out
Wave dashing outside of Kazuya is already practically patched out. It's a completely unneeded mechanic since it's use for realigning to your opponent isn't mandatory since Mishimas do not have uncharacteristically bad tracking anymore.
I think this game is done unless they remove heat and forced 50 50 but that's not happening. This game makes lesser players beat better players. One button 50 damage heat smash and rage arts on top of that is too much. This no longer feels like TEKKEN. What a shame
@@BurningRevoler electrics are easier only on heat, Kaz fancy electric combos got removed from t8. Even in heat whiff punish with electric requires a bit of practice. So I think is fairly balanced considered that Mishimas are the poster boys
tekken 8 is just weird. some characters got easy nerfed moves for newbies but stronger execution versions of those moves for experts. and then some characters just got nuked. very strange. also the addition of easy gameplan moves that break characters isn't an execution problem it's a moveset design problem. different things.
shaheen is locked behind while standing 3 loops for max damage combos. it’s mad hard kind of frustrating my fingers bleed to barely get 70 and other characters can get over 85 to 90 consistently as their bnbs.
Some characters still require your execution luckily, Bryan for instance got his double knee combos more consistent but still allows you to play a lot with harder execution ones!
I got Jin to purple by pressing 1,3,4. Super punishable multiple ways. Nobody red & below is blocking low. Dont have time to bother putting more than required effort to beat up people that wont block. Saying eddie can get to orange by pressing 1 button means nothing, any character can get to purple with 1 button. Peoples perception of the avg player in each rank seems to be way off lmao.
Kinda always been this way depending on what character you use, people are looking at the old ganes with the nostalgia shades on. If tekken 8 is so much easier and scrubbier why are still the same top players winning?
'Depending on which character you use' is the operative phrase. Tekken has always had low-execution characters for those who aren't particularly keen on execution. The issue that some people have is with historically high-execution characters having that aspect of them watered down. Also, to answer your question about who's winning tournaments, it's still relatively early days, but I suspect that we could be beginning to see the consequences of alienating large parts of the hardcore player base (from which source the competitive players of tomorrow are drawn). It could be that the competitive scene is already starting to suffer from a dearth of fresh blood.
But still not as hard as he was in T7. Game design with the philosophy of putting things in the game so difficult that they always pose a threat of failure no matter the skill of the player is SHIT design and needed to go. The 1f links with no buffers in Street Fighter 4 had to go, as did the way several legacy mechanics in Tekken functioned.
Power crush, heat smash, rage arts are not good for the game. Ppl use them as bailout tactics. In a bad situation? Just use this attack to tank some hits
The person using one button combos is lazy and has zero interest in learning things like spacing. Playing a character at its highest level should be difficult.
@@ChrisM-wv4gs that's why I do not have a problem as long as using 1 button combos does not give the same benefits and results as doing more complex ones
@@thephantazm5139 I brought up 3 points in this video, and the only one I really criticised is the last one. 75% of the simplifications Tekken 8 introduced I clearly said I agree with, how is this all complaining?😅
I’m tired of the cap when it comes to the dss cancel it wasn’t hard you could literally just hit bff the issue has always Been peoples inability to micro dash properly which is still a thing in this game. Dss becoming DC hasn’t simplified a simple combo game because most laws use standard bnbs launch u 4 3 b 2 b2 TS Bound flip flop (however you fancy calling) it to your bnb ender etc. Ws4 is the only frame tight you actually have to practice and even T8 it requires execution to do. Every law Reddit or discord is now asking why can’t I hit the blue spark😂. The change was for the best even if you were a savant at dss a lot of the times it wasn’t worth it. Why risk a miss input for 2~5 extra or if you’re a made lad a swag combo with isw 4 to only do less damage
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The thing i hate the most about this game is that they gave almost EVERYONE some sort of forced 50/50 stance mixup. It feels like my wins are meaningless because all i have to do is get to the forced mixup and hope they guess wrong every time. Kishin Nina and Devil Jin player btw
i main shaheen yea everything is plus frame 50/50 dribble
The skill is in getting yourself into those strong mixup situations as well as trying to avoid being on the receiving end of them.
And it's not about "hoping" people guess wrong, you should be making reads based on what your opponent has shown you/what you think they'll do, and then it's about choosing an option that best capitalises on the option you predict from your opponent.
@@burni988 that's not fun tho, Tekken has never been about constant aggression with stance mixups off of every move. The fact you have to play like that to win is just really not fun
@@monkeplaysgames7049 I mean that's personal preference but I really enjoy making the hard reads and I enjoy how this game frequently allows you to make highly rewarding plays despite you technically being in the disadvantaged situation. And I also enjoy enforcing offense.
Obviously it's risky to go for those options but that's why for me it feels so satisfying when you predict right, because you know it was a risk but there is a strong reward when it works out.
I also think the way the game encourages interactions so much is really cool because it allows you to actually see the mind game evolve as a match goes on because there's so many decisions that have to keep being made.
And you can feel that when you play as well, when you show that you can deal with someone's intial/more basic mixup it forces them to start adding in extra things but those things often make it more risky for your opponent which gives you another opportunity to beat them out if you choose your moment correctly.
@@burni988It's not really all that skillful if you can quite literally force a 50/50 at the press of a single button, is it?
You cant have heat dash, heat smash, power crushes, rage arts, increased damage during rage, juggling, wall smash attacks, guard breaks, and heat engagers all in the game. That ridiculous for any fighting game let alone a game like tekken. Thats not even including ridiculous moves by certain characters.
And chip damage!
When you put it like that 😦 🤣
The more I play the more I see how all this mechanics are tied trough specific time frames, and become kind of predictable and baitable (heat stuff and rage art).
This said heat NEEDS a tone down😅 😅
I am ok with simplifying things to lower the skill floor. However the skill ceiling and character expression must remain intact. For example, keeping the true DSS cancel routes as having blue sparks or higher damage vs the simple route being viable but less damaging
agreed everything is so homogenized in todays gaming. i main shaheen and shaheen is locked behind his while standing 3 loops i can tell whose playing based off how they play aka sephiblack vs ak but even with my own character everything feels so similar.
That's why I don't have problem with 1 button combos if they don't pay as much as execution ones😊
Having low-execution characters is fine, you just shouldn't get as much reward for the amount of work required to play them. High execution characters should always be strong, where low execution characters should generally be a bit weaker.
I feel like lars is misunderstood in the community.He's easy to learn but hard to master because of his fake pressure and he's more dependent deception.Hes a character with a low skill floor but high skill ceiling which is why you'll never see him in tournaments because most of his options into sen can be mid checked or even worse launched
@@niar1126 exactly
You never see him in tournaments cause he sucks lol
@baconbitz7804 just trying to explain why he sucks with his bad frame data, bad strings, and his 50/50s are only really good in heat
True it is a case of easy to play but not hard to fight against, this is after learning the matchup and knowing the options for his pressure
What they did to Law is especially sad. DSS transitions used to be so demanding and so many players spent a long time mastering them, only for that legacy skill to be made obsolete in T8 with even red rank noobs knowing to just hold forward for DSS. I honestly think if Mishima wavedashing was discovered today Bamco would’ve patched it out
I know, I really want to play him, but it feels plain😢
Wave dashing outside of Kazuya is already practically patched out. It's a completely unneeded mechanic since it's use for realigning to your opponent isn't mandatory since Mishimas do not have uncharacteristically bad tracking anymore.
I think this game is done unless they remove heat and forced 50 50 but that's not happening.
This game makes lesser players beat better players. One button 50 damage heat smash and rage arts on top of that is too much. This no longer feels like TEKKEN.
What a shame
heat smash should scale with the amount of heat bar you have left, getting full damage at any point in heat makes no sense
What's the metric for assessing who is a better player?
@@vainamoinen504 do I really have to answer that
@@vainamoinen504before they made electrics easier could you kazuyas demanding combos at the highest level no right yeah this game is baby mode
@@BurningRevoler electrics are easier only on heat, Kaz fancy electric combos got removed from t8. Even in heat whiff punish with electric requires a bit of practice. So I think is fairly balanced considered that Mishimas are the poster boys
I agree completely with the last segment. Some moves are way to strong and easy to do and have almost no counter play
tekken 8 is just weird.
some characters got easy nerfed moves for newbies but stronger execution versions of those moves for experts.
and then some characters just got nuked.
very strange.
also the addition of easy gameplan moves that break characters isn't an execution problem it's a moveset design problem. different things.
YES YES THEY ARE I can actually do electrics and I can’t even scratch the surface in any tekken before smdh
Alisa cant be played using one button. Imagine that
shaheen is locked behind while standing 3 loops for max damage combos. it’s mad hard kind of frustrating my fingers bleed to barely get 70 and other characters can get over 85 to 90 consistently as their bnbs.
Some characters still require your execution luckily, Bryan for instance got his double knee combos more consistent but still allows you to play a lot with harder execution ones!
In past games jin, king and draganov where hard to use characters. Now they are brain dead
I got Jin to purple by pressing 1,3,4. Super punishable multiple ways. Nobody red & below is blocking low. Dont have time to bother putting more than required effort to beat up people that wont block. Saying eddie can get to orange by pressing 1 button means nothing, any character can get to purple with 1 button. Peoples perception of the avg player in each rank seems to be way off lmao.
Nobody blocks low at high ranks as well...too risky!😂
Kinda always been this way depending on what character you use, people are looking at the old ganes with the nostalgia shades on. If tekken 8 is so much easier and scrubbier why are still the same top players winning?
'Depending on which character you use' is the operative phrase. Tekken has always had low-execution characters for those who aren't particularly keen on execution. The issue that some people have is with historically high-execution characters having that aspect of them watered down.
Also, to answer your question about who's winning tournaments, it's still relatively early days, but I suspect that we could be beginning to see the consequences of alienating large parts of the hardcore player base (from which source the competitive players of tomorrow are drawn). It could be that the competitive scene is already starting to suffer from a dearth of fresh blood.
Lars isn't easy to master
How do we tell him
The latest dlc is the arguably most execution heavy character in the game
But still not as hard as he was in T7.
Game design with the philosophy of putting things in the game so difficult that they always pose a threat of failure no matter the skill of the player is SHIT design and needed to go. The 1f links with no buffers in Street Fighter 4 had to go, as did the way several legacy mechanics in Tekken functioned.
Still a dumbed down version of Heihachi.
Lars easy to master? Wut
yo were you the bryan in chad the thirds lobby
Yes that's me✌🏻
Power crush, heat smash, rage arts are not good for the game. Ppl use them as bailout tactics. In a bad situation? Just use this attack to tank some hits
The only one I really have a problem with is safe powercrushes, does should not exist
The person using one button combos is lazy and has zero interest in learning things like spacing. Playing a character at its highest level should be difficult.
@@ChrisM-wv4gs that's why I do not have a problem as long as using 1 button combos does not give the same benefits and results as doing more complex ones
All this complaining is exhausting. I gotta block this channel
@@thephantazm5139 I brought up 3 points in this video, and the only one I really criticised is the last one. 75% of the simplifications Tekken 8 introduced I clearly said I agree with, how is this all complaining?😅
why would you comment on a video before blocking it?
now we can try to send you notfications for it.
He’s barely complaining. Most of what he said is true
I’m tired of the cap when it comes to the dss cancel it wasn’t hard you could literally just hit bff the issue has always Been peoples inability to micro dash properly which is still a thing in this game. Dss becoming DC hasn’t simplified a simple combo game because most laws use standard bnbs launch u 4 3 b 2 b2 TS Bound flip flop (however you fancy calling) it to your bnb ender etc. Ws4 is the only frame tight you actually have to practice and even T8 it requires execution to do. Every law Reddit or discord is now asking why can’t I hit the blue spark😂. The change was for the best even if you were a savant at dss a lot of the times it wasn’t worth it. Why risk a miss input for 2~5 extra or if you’re a made lad a swag combo with isw 4 to only do less damage
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